Let's Go To Court! - 74: A Killer Party & An Upsetting Discovery

Episode Date: June 19, 2019

Amy Anderton was concerned. Her boyfriend, Logan Storm, *seemed* like a good guy. He was a middle school math teacher. He talked a lot about trust and positivity. But something seemed off. So one day, when Logan left for work, Amy snooped through Logan’s stuff. That’s when she came across a thumbdrive. She plugged it into her computer, opened it, and was horrified by what she saw — hundreds of images of child pornography. Then, Brandi tells us about high school student Tyler Hadley’s massive party. When Tyler first told his friends about his plan to throw a party, they were a little skeptical.Tyler wasn’t the party-throwing type. His parents were super strict. But Tyler was determined to throw a party, and that’s exactly what he did. Tons of kids showed up from all over the sleepy town of Port St. Lucie, Florida. They had so much fun that they didn’t notice that Tyler’s house was a crime scene.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Still claiming innocence, Logan Storm sentenced to eight years in prison on child porn, failure-to-appear convictions,” by Helen Jung for The Oregonian “Logan Storm slips ankle bracelet, flees hours after verdict on child porn charge,” by Helen Jung for The Oregonian “Child porn convict dumps monitor,” Statesman Journal “Former teacher, Logan Storm, sentenced to prison for possessing child pornography and failing to appear in court,” press release for the United States Attorney’s Office for the District of Oregon “Jury finds former teacher Logan Storm not guilty of groping girls in public pool,” by Aimee Green for The Oregonian “Why did seven years pass before former teacher Logan Storm was tried for child molestation,” by Aimee Green for The Oregonian The “Weathering the Storm” episode of “Who The Bleep Did I Marry?” In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Tyler Hadley’s Killer Party” by Nathaniel Rich, Rolling Stone “Best Friend ‘Ruined My Life’ When He Killed His Own Parents” by Sean Dooley, Jenner Smith, and Alexa Valiente, ABC News “Murder of Blake and Mary Jo Hadley” wikipedia.org

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about a middle school math teacher. And I'll be talking about a killer party. Norman?

Yes? What's up? Welcome to the podcast! Thank you. But first and foremost, happy birthday to both of you today. Thanks. Thank you. Why are you clapping for yourself?

No, that's Kristen clapping. No. Thank you, Kristen. So we invited you on the podcast, Norm. Our gift to you is that you didn't have to prepare a case. You just get to be here and hang out with us. I'm just commentary. Yeah.

Hang out on our award-winning podcast. Yeah. And if someone hears this and decides to support your little dog and pony show on YouTube, then you owe us $50. Well, I will say, as 50% owner of the podcast, I could come on this show anytime I wanted. Oh! But, yeah,

I'm happy to be here. so happy you guys are filthy, stinking rich now thanks to the Patreon. So, I'm just glad I'm getting half, I'm just glad I'm getting

half of that. That's all. No, but we should say real quick, our Patreon has been, we announced it a very short time ago at the time of recording and

the response has been amazing so so i have cried three times um yeah i text kristin earlier and i was like i'm so proud of us it's it's so sad i don't think we had any real expectations when we launched a patreon we just knew that some people had asked and we thought well you know why not yeah and then someone so we set it up and for the longest time we didn't do anything with it yeah and some kind soul i don't know how she did it she found it yeah i think her name's candace i'm gonna have to look back but so candace found it signed up before we had any like benefits set up and that was kind of that like lit the fire under us. Oh shit, we better do

something with it. Yeah, we just thank you guys so much. It means so much to us. I've been blown away by the response. I just remember when I launched my Patreon the reaction I got and you two have gotten like a way bigger

reaction I think. Is it because we're way cooler than you? Or like, what do you think? What do you think, Norm? I think you guys just have very passionate fans. I would agree. We definitely do. It's cool.

It's cool to see. Thanks. You guys have been doing this for over a year, and you finally launched Patreon. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you did a good job of being being like you don't want to launch it too soon you know you you kind of coached us yeah you like mr miyagi to us you were like when the time comes you'll know and then you caught a fly and then he ate it guys he's hungry turns out norm's

a frog no i i've just i've seen many patreons launch and I've been on the internet for 11 years now Not just looking at porn I've been starring in it too The gaming historian does Dallas Congrats to you both Thanks Thank you Hey, maybe we should shout out the patreon

i mean if people skipped that episode okay i don't know why anyone would skip any episode i guess it's because you started on that last episode I don't know if that was a cry or a laugh. That was an evil, fake laugh that hurt my soul. I couldn't tell. If you are like, they started a Patreon, I must learn more. You're in luck. So we have three tiers on Patreon. We have the district court, the appellate court,

and the Supreme Court! Norm, what the F? We've been over this. What? You've made a joke of me. That is true. You are the origin of the Supreme Court!

Kiki doesn't like it. Kiki got really scared. Kiki did not like it at all. Norm, do you want to defend yourself? I have already defended myself about this. Sorry for getting excited about learning. About the law. So if you want to support us at the district court level, that's $2 per month.

And you get to vote on episode topics. And you get to read case updates on and you get to read um case updates on the appellate not provided by kristin oh oh kristin has yet to update us on a single case ever oh yeah okay hold on to your fucking hat lady uh brock turner did that last week. I just found out that Emily Doe is writing a memoir. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. So suck on that.

Okay. Let's calm down. Yeah. Chill. Whoa. So at the appellate court level, you get to join the Discord, which Brandy and I are like little old ladies just trying to navigate this whole big world of technology. You two are.

I was expecting your first message to be help. Hey, we're doing all right. And we're having a good time. The people in there are really funny. It's been awesome so far. And then once we reach 100 patrons total at any tier level, members of the appellate court and the Supreme Court will get to listen to an exclusive episode of Let's Go to Court. And this is a full length. This isn't a mini episode or anything like that.

No. It's a full episode? It's a full episode. Whoa. I didn't know you guys were doing that. Can you handle it? Can you handle it? No.

I don't think you can handle it. Woo! Are too intimidated to even sign up. Then, at the Supreme Court level, you will get a Let's Go to Court sticker, which is very cool. They are awesome. Casey, my sister Casey

designed them for us. They're so cool. They do look really good. I'm impressed. You'll get to submit questions that we may answer in an upcoming episode. Yeah. You'll also get inducted with a little one-time shout-out at the end of an episode. Can I get shout-out on an episode? No. Absolutely not.

So you guys are going to have a little Q&A section in the episode. Yeah. I might have to submit some questions. You'll have to support us first. That's right. I do. I like how you made yourself an admin in our Discord.

Okay, I'll let you two run it. No, please don't! No, no, no! You come back! Baby, come back! You can blame it all on me! Baby, come back! Alright, are we ready to

get into the episode? Let's dive right in. That scared me. It was just Peanut jumping off the couch. Team Peanut. What's up, dog? Okay, so first of all, shout out to Jamie Lynn, who reached out to us on Twitter. She... Why do you have so many fingers pointing?

I don't know. Jamie Lynn Spears? That's what I was going to say. I'm sorry. It also looks like I'm kind of Spider-Man-ing, but I'm off-brand Spider-Man-ing. Shoots it out of his fingernails. Spider-Guy.

Dollar store Spider-Guy. Yeah, Spider-Guy. He's good enough, okay? He's good enough. Arachnid guy. So Jamie Lynn reached out on Twitter, and she had a link to this show that I had never heard of, never watched. Yeah, I saw that.

Yeah, called Who the Bleep Did I Marry? And she said... Oh, I've heard of that. Okay, so she said... Is that on ID? Yes. Yeah. Man, you do know yourself.

Yeah, I've seen previews for it. What, have you Googled that before, and then you were like, oh, this is also a TV show? No. No, so she was like, hey, it's super weird. Like a ton of the cases you guys have covered have also been covered on this TV show. And I was like, huh, maybe that could be a good place to go for episode ideas. And so that's how I came across this case.

I will say, though, i watched an episode of the show whole lot of cheesy reenactments yeah yeah i i can't stand reenactments i can't either it was the spring of 2010 amy anderton was living it up she was i'm sorry i know anderton are we sure anderton i'm 100 sure sounds Anderton? I'm 100% sure. Sounds like an error, but it's true. Will you spell it? No, I will not. Spell her last name.

There's no S. I'm sorry, guys. Anderton. Yes. Are you sure? Norman. Let me Google it right now. Oh, my God. Who the bleep did I marry?

All right, Amy Anderton. I see it. Well, don't click on anything. I'm going to tell you theerton. I see it. Well, don't click on anything. I'm going to tell you the story. Oh, wow. She's involved in this huge case. Shut up. Sentenced to death.

Had 10 kids. So she was 28, cute as a button, single, and ready to find love. Missed opportunity. Why not say ready to mingle? Oh. You both look so annoyed with me. I couldn't figure out why. One night, she went out to an Irish pub in Portland, Oregon, and this guy came up to

her. He was a real, live Irish guy. Ooh. How common is it to find Irish people in an Irish pub? Not. I feel like most Irish pubs. Unless you're in Ireland. Yeah. Yeah.

I feel like most Irish pubs in the US. Then I think they just call it a pub. Yeah. They're just like gimmicky marketing. Yeah. It's not actually an Irish pub. He's probably faux Irish. Oh.

Yeah. If Irish. Okay. Yeah. Unless he's got a Blarney stone in his pocket. I'm not buying it. Okay. Unless he's got a Blarney stone in his pocket. I'm not buying it.

Hey. Is that a Blarney stone in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? Anyway. His name was Logan Storm.

That's a fake name. That's made up. That's a fake name. He sounds like an X-Men character. I think he sounds like a soap opera actor.

The name of this episode, by the way, Weathering the Storm. I see what they did there. Oh, boy. So he had on a douchey little cap, you know. He was okay looking. Had a very thick Irish accent.

And he seemed like a really good guy with a big heart. So is he actually Irish? Would you, like, listen to the story? Am I jumping too far ahead? You'll probably get to that, huh? Yes, I bet you will!

He's gotta be faking it. Yeah, he's definitely faux Irish. He told her he was a middle school teacher, and she was like, awesome. I do community work at a nonprofit. It was a nice little conversation, but nothing more. He walked away. She paid her tab, and pretty soon she left.

When she got home that night, she looked into her purse and found a matchbook. She opened it up. With Logan Stone's phone number on it. Yep. Smooth move. She opened it up and he'd written, the shy Irish fellow from the bar fancies

you. And he wrote his number underneath it. Are you a little seduced? Man, I'd call him. Okay, well that's how she felt. She was like, hmm. So she immediately texted him. Ooh, notices your blarney stone.

And he texted her, and the next night they went out on a dinner date. They had a great time. Where did they go? I don't know, but part of me feels like Megan. Research is kind of lacking in this. Don't even know where they went to dinner. Wow.

You know what? They went to Cheddar's, okay? Thank you. You're welcome. He dipped his onion ring in ranch dressing. We know what that means. Ooh, not a good sign. No, nope.

You can tell a lot of person by where they dip their onion rings. That's right. That sounds filthy to me. We just all think you should dip it in the Chipotle ranch, not the ranch.

It's not Chipotle ranch. It's called Cajun sauce. It's a horseradish based sauce. Not a ranch. You rolled her eyes so hard they almost fell out of her head. Don't give me the Chipotle ranch. Don't even know what you're talking about. Wow.

May I continue? Go ahead. I mean, I know I don't know anything about this case. We have a lot to deal with on our birthdays. You know, Kat, you two are already a lot to deal with because you're so alike. Then it's your birthdays and you're like, I got presents today. Oh, is that another text message from one of my friends? Oh, it's the dentist wishing me a happy birthday.

Hey, Slugger wished me a happy birthday. And he meant it. What if we found out that like Brandy and I were siblings, but one of us was put up for adoption? Who's on the counter? Let's see. Okay. Kiki, the fuck are you doing? No, she's off.

Do it right back to me. She's off. I'm under the oven. Yeah, that's off. Do it right back to me. She's off. Do it under the oven. Yeah, that's fine. Anyway. So if you two were siblings? Yes. That would not shock me, honestly.

One of us was put up for adoption. Yeah. Yeah, that wouldn't shock me. You two are a lot alike. Same birthday, though. Yeah, that would be weird. So you'd be twins? No, we're not born the same year out here that's right you're older brandy i that's so weird i almost forgot here it comes

how old you are Okay, so Amy Anderton and Logan Storm went out to dinner. Presumably to Cheddar's. To a place. And they had a nice time. They talked about themselves. He told Amy that he had a son who lived with him part time. Date was great. So great that they got together the next weekend.

Amy brought him to a barbecue with her friends, and they all loved him. They thought he was fantastic. They started hanging out more and more, and one time when Amy and Logan were hanging out with a bunch of her friends, she overheard Logan talking about a former student of his. Apparently, the young woman had gone off and become an exotic dancer tell me more okay what's what's the term because the show used the term stripper and all the newspaper articles i read said stripper but i've always heard exotic dancer

was like the same thing well i know it's the thing. I think stripper's like a derogatory. Really? Yeah. It has a negative connotation. Oh. But anyway, so he said that. He mentioned he was concerned about her and that he was mentoring her. Mentoring the exotic dancer? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, what do you make of that? What a great guy. Does he teach her new moves? I'll show you how to slide up and down this pole. No, say it in an Irish accent. I can't do that. I mean, we laughed.

I can't do that. I didn't insult Irish people. I tried to do that. Amy didn't think much of it. Logan was just being himself. A nice, helpful guy. As more time passed, Logan and Amy continued to get to know one another. Amy learned that Logan had had kind of a rough childhood. His dad had some psychiatric problems. He'd been in a facility.

So he was raised by his grandparents in Ireland. At one point, she says he alluded to being in the IRA and that his involvement in the IRA was what got him deported and sent back to America. What's the IRA? Irish bad guys. It's like the Irish Republic Army, I think. Yeah, or a retirement fund. Yeah. Bad news being in this IRA.

He's the interest rate you're in Sydney I got so involved in those retirement accounts I got deported Irish Republican Army Republican? yes oh

interesting not I don't think like our type of Republican well yeah no I yeah guys okay

I mean you didn't know what it stood for. I knew the general idea. Irish bad guys. Car bombs. Depends who you ask. Yeah, if you ask another IRA member. Well, yeah, and if you ask a Nazi

then they're all nice too. I should probably cut this. This would be really bad. Anyway. No, Kristen, remember if we've taught people nothing on this podcast, they can say one thing. What? We've told them that Nazis are bad. Nazis are bad. Alzheimer's is bad.

Alzheimer's is bad. Genocide bad. Yeah. People need to know these things. May I play devil's advocate? About Nazis being bad? Oh my God. That was terrifying.

Stop it. I feel like our breath got like. Actually. There are enough YouTubers who are saying dumb shit. You're right. You're so right. Now he's back in Portland.

He has a good relationship with his parents. Amy really liked Logan, but she wanted to take it slow. She especially wanted to take it slow in regard to meeting his 12-year-old son. How old is Logan? So Amy's 28. And I think he's like 34, 33. So I had him when he was like 22.

Okay. All right. Story checks out so far. But Logan didn't really respect that. One morning, they were lounging around at his place, and he left to go pick up his son. And he told Amy, Hey, you know, we're going to take our time.

We're not going to come like straight back to the house, so you can hang out as long as you want. So she did. She like made some coffee did her thing and he showed up with the kid yes like immediately and so she said she like ran like she saw them coming up the steps so she ran into the bedroom closed the door and he like took his son right to the door and was like you want to to meet Amy? Not cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's bad.

So that really pissed Amy off. Yeah. Because she had wanted some boundaries. She didn't want to meet this child right away. So that was kind of their first fight. She was like, I wanted to take things slow and you didn't respect that. But he was like,

you know what? I don't want to play games. I want a relationship with you. I want this to move forward. Your problem is that you have your guard up and you don't trust anybody. You need to trust me. What?

Red flag. Yeah, that's a huge red flag. What? The problem is you. The problem is you. Yes. It's a red flag but amy was like you know what that's a good point um maybe he's right maybe i do need to let go more

this relationship could be the real deal but i'll never know if i don't open up Sorry, that was my mother wanting to FaceTime. She wanted to tell her baby boy happy birthday. Yeah. I swear my phone was on do not disturb, but it rang anyway. Moms. She can override the settings on my phone. Should I tell what my mom has done today?

Yes, yes. Okay, so my mom has text messaged me multiple times today to tell me happy birthday. So the first one came at 8.11, and she said, happy birthday, sweetie, 33 years and 26 minutes old. And then she texted me again at 10.14 and said, happy birthday, 33 years, 2 hours and 28 minutes. And then she texted me again at, what time was the last one? 12.59.

Happy 33 years, 5 hours and 14 minutes. This is why you two are such monsters today. Too much attention. That's just a good mom. That is a good mom. She loves you very much. She does. She's a good mom.

And that's why your mom called the cell phone company, overrode whatever rules were going on there. He's got do not disturb on. Disable it. That's not how my mom sounds, by the way. I was going to say, she's going to miss. My mom's not an 84-year-old. So Amy's decided she needs to open up more.

Logan has convinced her that she needs to open up more, stop asking as many questions, let her boundaries down, forget the weird stuff that he's doing, and just focus on the bad stuff that she was doing. That's such a red flag. Could be wrong. Yeah. Red flag!

Big time. Then, mid-May rolls around. They'd been dating for a couple months at this point, and Norman burped into a microphone. Did it pick it up? Of course it did. What are you? These are really good mics. You burped directly into the microphone.

Oh, did that be good? Did I catch that? Did you get there? Mic check. So, at this point, Logan started to struggle financially. Uh-oh. He's been helping that exotic dancer, hasn't he? He couldn't make ends meet, you guys.

So, we need to move in together. Brandy. Psychic Brandy. Okay, here we go. It makes sense sense he couldn't afford the place he was living in it looked like he was gonna have to move into like some one bedroom place with his son so he kind of hinted at hey it would sure be great if you could boot one of your roommates out of your house and let me move in with my son. By early June, Amy was convinced. Logan moved in and things were okay.

She was living in her house with Logan, his son, and her roommate Mike. But then one night at like 1130, when Logan and Amy were lying in bed. Naked? I don't think so. What were they doing in bed? In the reenactment, they were lying in bed. Naked? I don't think so. What were they doing in bed? In the reenactment, they were fully clothed. Just like shoes and everything? Little hats on.

Logan got a phone call. It was from his former student. The dancer? He told Amy, Oh, my former student, the stripper, she needs my help. She just finished. It's a G-string emergency. It's caught. I gotta pull it out.

With my teeth. Only my teeth. Oh! You really are so much alike. I'll be right there. She just finished her job at the strip club and she needs a ride home. So I'm going to go do that.

What a great guy. Amy was like, fuck no. Yeah. Absolutely not. This is weird. And if you want a relationship with me, this weird thing that you have going on with this former student needs to stop. It's inappropriate. Logan was very angry.

Once again, Amy was being untrusting. He was a good guy who was going to the strip club with the best of intentions. He left the house in a huff. Whenever I go to a strip club, it's always with the best of intentions. I want to save these people and help them out. And look at their booties.

Fun fact, I've been to a strip club only once, and it was because I worked at a computer repair shop, and I had to go in and fix their computer. What? Yes. Is that a real story? It is. It is.

And you were like, I'm not even looking at the titties. Well, it was during the day, so they weren't actually doing dances or anything. There were no titties. The women were in the back getting ready, so I was back there where all the costumes are and everything, and I guess they had viruses on their computer.

Imagine that. That's the only time I've been in a strip club. What is a strip club like during the day? Is it kind of a grim scene? I mean, is it... Yeah, it's like, I mean is it kind of a grim scene i mean is it yeah it's like i mean it's dark uh-huh which is odd because it's daylight out but it's always dark yeah yeah and it's got a funky smell and i mean maybe it was just this yeah could you describe the smell um like old beer that's a lot better than I thought it was going to be.

Bodily fluids were going to be involved. No, this was a classy place. No, it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't. No sex in the champagne room. But, you know, everyone who worked there was super nice. Well, yeah. Yeah, they were very professional.

They've got great people skills. Yeah. It's their job to make men like you feel good about themselves i tipped them all like 20 i took them 20 bucks to fix their computer thanks for letting me in here ladies thank you at this point amy's friends okay this this show makes it seem like oh everyone was just blindsided i don't buy it. She at least had one friend that was like, this dude's full of shit. The show admits that one friend did say. Was it Mike?

No, they said the friend was a woman, but I think Mike also thought this guy was weird. Had to have. He lived with them. He lived there. He definitely knew the guy was weird. So the friend is like something fishy is going on here and you need to figure out what this guy's deal is so amy and logan talked and she was like hey if we're going to keep dating you need to establish

some boundaries with this former student and logan said okay he met up with the former student and he did exactly what Amy asked. That made Amy feel better, but not great. She didn't fully trust Logan, so she decided to do some digging. On July 23rd, she waited for Logan to leave for work at the middle school and she went through his stuff. Logan had this jewelry box thing filled with like just a bunch of random crap. But underneath all the random crap was a thumb drive. Oh. What was on it? She took it.

What was on it? Plugged it into the computer. What was on it? Opened it up. Hundreds of pictures of child pornography. Yep. Like hundreds and hundreds. Child porn? Yeah.

Oh, and he's a middle school teacher? Yep. Yep. Oh. It was super disturbing stuff involving very young children. I'm not going to go too crazy. Please don't.

I will say, there were nude photos, but there were also photos of children being raped. Oh, no. So here's a weird thing. Weirder than that? Yeah.

And guys, it gets weird. Don't worry. It gets weird. It's all normal. No, like, so I classify that as disturbing. Yeah.

This, I, this next part I think is weird. So all these images were stored as PowerPoint files. They weren't individual images. They were PowerPoint presentations. So they could be viewed as a slideshow. Oh,

gross. And so there were mixes of child porn and then non-pornographic images of his students oh in these slideshows oh oh my god super weird and gross yep oh so she flipped i, she just absolutely flipped out. She put the thumb drive back in the jewelry box. What? She didn't go to the police? Hold on, guys.

Oh, hell no, Logan. Hold on. To the police. Keep in mind, at this point, she believes he has ties to the IRA, not some retirement account. Ties to the IRA. She finds all this child porn. So, go to the police. Go to the IRA, not some retirement account. Ties to the IRA. She finds all this child porn. So go to the police. Go to the police.

Hold on. That night Logan comes home. He immediately knew something was wrong. But she was like, I'm just stressed. It's nothing. At some point in all this she told Mike what was going on. And Mike was like, you need to call the police. Take the thumb drive and go to the police.

She didn't know what to do. What? Sorry. What? She didn't know what to do. Do you think that Mike's picking this up? Jeez. Between Norm burping into the mic and you like drinking your Diet Diet.

DDP. Yeah. What if I introduced Gaming Historian with a burp? I was like, what's up gamers? Oh my. I think that would be off brand. Nice change of pace. I think just being on this podcast is off brand for you.

It is, but I love you too, so. Thanks. Ooh. Equally or like? I love you too exactly the same. Exactly the the same i can't pick a favorite how disturbing so the next morning she's like okay i gotta do something she told him oh oh so amy and logan and his son apparently were planning to go on a little trip

together and she finds this child porn like right before this happened so she's like we're not going on the trip together yeah you and i need a break i'm gonna go back to utah to visit my family and while i'm gone you need to move out oh she doesn't mention the child porn. She just says this relationship is done. Are you... That's a bad move. I don't think so. It's a bad move. Now she doesn't have the child porn to give to the police. Hang on.

You guys just need to like keep your pants on. You ever heard that before? Keep your pants on. Excuse me. It is our birthdays today we will wear whatever we damn well please if we want to be here in our birthday suits we will be here in our birthday suits if i want to wear my celebratory g-string and if i have to remove it with my teeth than Sophie is. It's what you do on your birthday. She's a friend helping out a friend.

Yeah. You're really mentoring him. I'm mentoring him. Brandy's my mentor. I don't understand why Kristen's so jealous. You gotta hold that thought because I have to use the bathroom.

Okay. We're like 20 minutes into this thing. Worse than me. There's nothing to my bottle. No! Okay! There's nothing to my bottle.

Are you guys ready for Logan's reaction when Amy told him... We need a break. Yeah. He took it really well. I'm sure he was like, oh. And he was like we need a break. Yeah. He took it really well. I'm sure he was like oh. And he was like this is oh man.

I must have done something wrong. Blimey. Crikey. That's Australian. Oh. So here was his reaction. Are you ready?

Yeah. Ah! No! He screamed? So he just screamed cl clenched fists, like went nuts, freaked her the hell out. Dropped the Irish accent. No. Oh.

No. You know what the problem is with you two? You don't trust. You don't trust enough. You just need to lower your guard down a bit and trust this guy yeah i really trust this powerpoint slide you know that that's probably not even his thumb drive very good norm it's probably not even holding for a friend yeah it's a great argument for the defense i didn't even know it was on it yeah i bought it up from at a garage sale. Yeah. Weird that my students were on there.

Yeah, that's a weird coincidence. So in record speed, Amy got out of the house, got on a plane headed to Utah, and... Left the thumb drive behind. Right, she did. Bad move. As soon as she was safe with her family she called 9-1-1 and she told them what she'd found but he doesn't know she's found it exactly see this is why i'm like you guys are way off here because she she was with a guy who she knew to be dangerous so she extracted

herself from the situation safely without alerting to him to the idea that she knew he had child porn, got herself to Utah, and then called the police. And the police were there like lickety split. Like they went to the apartment or they went to her and were like, we need to talk to you. No, they went to the apartment to go get the child porn. You have some tuna in there? Kiki is halfway into Kristen's purse right now. His elbow's deep into Kristen's purse.

There's something in there. Kristen, I told you you can't just have fish in your purse like that. I know you like to snack on it. She's carrying fish and catnip around with you. She's been doing catnip again. So police arrived. Logan was there.

He was totally calm. They confiscated his laptop, the nasty thumb drive. The whole time, Logan was totally chill. So the police got the thumb drive. Well, that's good. Well, she told them where it was. Okay, Kristen, calm down. All right.

I'm just gonna scream at both of you, okay? God almighty. Get in there now, Kiki. Yeah. You don't have thumbs. You can't open it. It's all zipped up. She's pissed.

We got in here before. We're hippies. It was just in here. Literally just in here. Literally. So police looked through the thumb drive. Fucking kidding me. Hey, this is like when I'm trying to

record an episode and Kiki's going crazy. Thank you, Brandy. Kiki, do you love me? So police looked through the thumb drive. They were like, oh shit, that's definitely child porn. And they got a warrant for Logan's arrest. Got him. Case

closed. Great case, Kristen. Oh, there's more. There was just one problem. Logan isn't Logan. It wasn't a thumb drive. What? It's a middle finger drive. Sorry, I meant it wasn't his thumb drive.

It was a floppy disk. It was a laser disk. And they are fresh out of laser disc readers I don't have my laser player Are you serious Kiki Kiki what the hell You gotta go You want me to grab the spray bottle

Yeah I do Oh my favorite Texas justice over here You gotta get it fam Okay Texas Justice over here. You have to get it, fam. Okay. There was just one problem. It wasn't a thumb drive!

I meant to say, it wasn't his thumb drive. No, Logan Storm wasn't really Logan Storm. Who was he? What the fuck? Good God. Give it to me. It's real scary. It's one teaspoon of water in it.

Back off. Water shortage around here. Oh my God. She's gone. No, the problem Both of you are wrong, by the way Logan was missing He was nowhere to be found Oh, so they put out a warrant for his arrest

And they're like, but where'd he go? Yeah So, at this point, Amy is scared shitless She's back in Portland She goes through the house. It's clear all of her stuff has been rifled through and her spare key is missing. Oh, no. She got to change those locks.

Yep. And she did. So she kind of starts freaking out. She's like, this guy has ties to the IRA. He for sure put a bomb in my car. So she called the cops. Irish car bomb. Car bomb. Car bomb.

Car bomb. Irish car bomb. Irish car bomb. It's an Ur-a-curber. Ur-a-curber. Ur-a-curber. Eric Herber. Eric Herber.

Herber. Herber. So she called the cops. And they said, what? They couldn't understand her. She's like, can you please double check my car? So they did, and it was fine. There's no car. There's no car.

No car. But while they were talking, they were like, hold on. You know that he was never in the IRA, right? He's not even Irish. He never. So he was Irish, but he had never lived in ireland he's irish like you're irish yes yeah so he'd grown up in portland and his irish accent was fake oh i i i don't like it when people are like say like like, yeah, I'm Irish. That'd be like if I was like, yeah, I'm Italian. But like, I do not consider myself Italian.

My family heritage is probably in Italy somewhere. But like, I would never go up to, I would never like register on like a form that I'm Italian or anything. But this guy, this guy, this guy went the extra mile. People do fake accents. We're from London Hello So this guy wasn't really Irish

Was he? Oh my god He was from Portland Right love? Have we talked about this On the podcast? Christian hates fake accents Specifically a fake

English accent Okay The accent I hate Is the fake British accent. Yes. Because everyone thinks they do a great fake British accent. Let's hear yours. No, because it sucks and more people need to have my opinion. And more people need to shut it down.

So you're just a coward. Sure. Sure. Sure. I do love doing my fake British accent and I don't claim that it's a good one.

I just like how upset you get. He does it just to poke the bear. Yeah. Look out. Might be finding the Kerber myself soon.

Call up Randy. Herb a Kerber myself soon. And call up Brandy, Herb, Kerber. She'll know exactly what you mean. Krushtiger to Kerber. And Brandy will say, Herber. Herder. Help is on the way. Help is on the way, dude. Okay.

Okay, so he's not from Ireland, and he had a fake Irish accent. So he kept up this fake Irish accent the whole time? The whole time? The whole time? In front of his kid? The whole time. His kid didn't call bs here's the thing here's the thing we have to go we have to leave right now the thing i don't like about this show is they they left out a ton of details and one of those details is yeah when did this fake irish

accent start did he turn it on and off? Did he take it to school with him? What was his deal? You guys also were calling bullshit on his name. He was not born with that name, but it is his legal name. He changed his name to Logan Storm? Yeah. Was that when he was trying to launch his porn career?

I mean, it sounds very porny, doesn't it? The next Avenger, Logan Storm. I think it sounds super porny, doesn't it? The next Avenger, Logan Storm. Oh, I think it sounds super porny. Rod Storm. Anyway, so he's a big phony. And he's gone. Nowhere to be found.

And he's missing. But he has the spare key. Right, so Amy obviously changed her locks. She got a weapon. Didn't say what weapon, but she said she slept with it by her bed. So, you know. She got a gun, you think? Giant vibrator.

It'll kill you. A big dildo. Imagine that headline. Logan Storm beaten to death with a giant dildo. With one of those giant fist dildos. She's like, am I doing this right? Norman can't even enjoy it. It's so terrifying. A giant fist dildos. She's like, am I doing this right? Norman can't even enjoy it. It's so terrifying.

A giant fist dildo? You've never seen a giant fist dildo? No. What does that even look like? Norman, you gotta live, man. Should I try it? What does it look like? Do you see a fist?

So it's just a fist? Okay. Brandy's gonna Google it. This is a thing. Oh, now Kiki's trying to get in your purse Ha! Ha! Oh you got peanut

Sacrifice it Oh Jesus Okay it's literally a fist A fist Man okay You can get that on Amazon That's the first link Prime I must have it now Man. Okay. You can get that on Amazon? That's the first link.

Prime. I must have it now. Amazon.com. The fist tilt. Yo, if I don't get this in two days, I'm getting a refund. I'm horny as hell. Oh, God. And my own fist

just isn't cutting it. Oh, no! I'm going to get so many weird hats now. Brandy, we saw you were interested in massive fist dildo. So at some point point investigators did discover that shortly after the police came and took Logan's thumb drive and electronics his dad drove

him to Canada. Oh boy. Then from Canada Logan flew to London. Wow. Like a 19 year old taking a gap year, Logan traveled to Ireland, to France, to Amsterdam,

just having a lovely time. Backpacking through Europe. And all the while, he sent letters to prosecutors explaining that he was just afraid. Afraid that if he went to prison, he'd be raped and murdered. Who had the 12-year-old? I guess the mom? Yeah, yeah, the mom.

Yeah. Hmm. I'm feeling pretty bad for him. Yeah, right? I mean, like, dude, you've got 600 images of child porn. And you're like, people don't like my type. So apparently this whole time, Logan had some defense attorneys who were trying to convince him to come back to the U.S. and face the charges.

And finally, in February of 2011, Logan gave in. He came back to the United States and was arrested at the airport. Got him. Got him, boys. So on January 23rd, 2013,gan's trial began in front of a federal jury the prosecution's case was pretty straightforward they called investigators to the stand who talked about finding the porn on logan's devices they called amy to the stand and she talked about discovering the porn and how horrible that had been.

But the defense had a perfectly logical explanation. It wasn't his thumb drive. Not my thumb drive. Hmm. No, I'm afraid not. Are you ready for this? I can't wait. Yeah, what's a better defense than that?

So why was this mild-mannered middle school teacher in possession of child porn? He'd confiscated it. He'd been framed. Oh. Framed? Amy was so jealous of Logan's relationship with the former student-turned-exotic dancer. Oh my gosh. That perhaps she was involved somehow. But you know what?

We have no evidence, but this is probably love. Here's the big theory. Here's the big theory. Remember Amy's roommate, Mike? Yeah. Well, Mike was clearly in love with Amy. And it just killed him that she was dating Logan. So what did he do?

He took Logan's laptop, downloaded hundreds upon hundreds of images of child porn, made a bunch of creepy PowerPoints with a mix of porn and children from Logan's classroom. And then, then he played the waiting game. He waited for Amy to stumble across the porn. Bullshit, this is the worst theory ever. No, Brittany. And easily disproven. No.

And then, you know, once she did stumble across it, he would be the shoulder to cry on. Mm-hmm. Turns out, it was all true. You know what, guys? I know you guys are into this theory. You just need a little more info. So here's the info that's going

to convince you. Okay, I'm ready for it. Mike and Amy started dating? No. I imagine what you two are thinking is, gee, it's so hard to find porn on the internet these days. If you were going to do all that, you'd have to really have some technological know-how.

No. Well, now, this is child porn. It can't be that hard to find porn. I think you've got to access the dark web. You've got to get on the dark web. I don't think it's on the regular web. Google dark web. I would imagine most porn sites today are like completely banned that stuff.

Okay, well, I guess I've never tried to look for it, so I don't know. Neither have we. Neither have I. No one has it. I'm not a child porn expert like you two. So Mike was a former member of the Geek Squad. And guess what? The thumb drive?

It was the Geek Squad brand. So there you go. No. There you go. That is not a there you go. There was only one Ge geek squad thumb drive in all the land ladies and gentlemen we got him uh but you but assistant u.s attorney jan shoemaker was like that's the dumbest thing ever yeah why on earth would he go to all that trouble

on the off chance that amy then go through Logan's jewelry box, discover the thumb drive, and then put it into her computer. And by the way, a lot of these images predate Logan even meeting Amy. So, like, that just, none of this makes any sense. You can easily just prove it. You can look at the date of the images. Okay, so in fairness to the defense, they did have one argument that was not stupid,

and it was about the investigators doing sloppy work. For example, they didn't take all of the computers out of the house. They didn't document their search by taking photos. They left their own electronic fingerprints on Logan's devices. But the prosecution just pressed forward and they were like, yeah, there were some mistakes made in handling these devices,

but nobody put child porn onto the devices. So, I'm sorry. What does your note say? My note right there says, he pled not guilty which like so this trial lasted six days and ultimately he was found guilty he was convicted on one count of possessing child porn. One count? Yeah, that's all they had on it. But it's a federal charge. Even with multiple images?

You just get one count? I don't know. That must be the way it works. I've never been charged with child porn possession. Are you sure? I'm positive. So they just had to wait for sentencing. The prosecution argued that Logan shouldn't be released while he awaited sentencing.

He's a flight risk. He was a flight risk. Yeah. Yes. Yes. He traveled the world. Yeah. He had fled the country in 2010.

Why wouldn't he do it again? But the defense was like, oh, calm down. Old news. We're 100% certain that he learned his lesson. Let's look at the facts when we got him to come back to america he surrendered his passport like a total sweetie pie and he'd been living with his parents for the last year and a half waiting for this trial he could have left then but he didn't He could have left then, but he didn't.

Judge Answer Haggerty was like, yeah, persecution. That's the Answer Haggerty? Answered Haggerty? A-N-C-E-R is the first name. Haggerty. Answer Haggerty. You just say names like everybody's heard that name ever before. I just try to be somewhat confident. My boy, Answer Haggerty.

Can you stop fiddling with that hat, please? It's going to get picked up on the mic. I'm touching a hat. Fondling the hat. If I did this while you were recording a Gaming Historian episode, you would lose your mind. Welcome to the ASMR. Do you want to talk about the hat?

Yeah, Brandy got me a beautiful Miami Dolphins snapback hat for my birthday. It is really cool. It is wonderful. Thank you, Brandy. I'm glad you like it. You're welcome. Brandy is an amazing gift giver. Brandy has impeccable taste. Brandy memorizes other people's tastes.

Yeah. Yeah. I take note of stuff like that. Yeah. I like giving tastes. Yeah. I take note of stuff like that. Yeah. I like giving gifts. Yeah. So like probably next holiday she'll get you that fist dildo

you had your eye on. And you know what? Every time I get to spend the night at Brandy's house I get unlimited strawberry ice cream and I can watch whatever I want on TV. That is so disgusting. What are you talking about? What are you talking about?

What are you talking about? I feel like when you were a kid, spent the night at grandma's. I can stay up as late as I want, eat strawberry ice cream. Okay, weirdo. Brainy lets me go to Blockbuster and rent a movie. Yeah, okay. Anyway, he's definitely a flight risk yeah but they 100 but they're like they're gonna let him but they're like he's a big sweetie pie he's gonna even though he he's a big sweetie pie

even though he got because what's he facing porn so yeah what's a federal count of child pornography okay i think it was i think he was facing seven years. That seems low, but okay. I know, I agree, it seems low. So he runs. So yeah, the judge lets him go. Which is like unbelievable to me. So he left the country, huh?

So he's like, so the judge is like, okay, Logan, see you back in april all right and logan was like sure i'm a good guy who has zero history of running for the law thank you judge you're a genius now for the big surprise are you ready to be surprised he left the country he sure did yeah so and i'm talking literally hours after this happened, hours after the conviction, he was wearing one of those, you know, electronic monitoring things. He went to a park in Troutdale, Oregon, cut off the monitoring bracelet, stole his father's passport, stole his girlfriend, which who? He had a girlfriend? Yeah. Who is dating this guy?

Is it the exotic dancer? I don't know. But can you imagine? This should give hope. This should give hope to guys out there. I don't know. There's someone out there for everybody. Oh, my boyfriend sure is a nice guy. This guy is convicted. This guy is in court for possession of child porn

and he's got a girlfriend. That is unreal to me. That is unreal. Ugh. So he stole his new girlfriend's green Ford F1 picky. Picky? 50 pickup. A picky.

Hey, I'm moving. Can I borrow your picky? Makes it sound a lot more feminine, doesn't it? So he took off for Mexico. I hope there's no Kerber. Mickey! I'm gonna go Kerber! Kerber, where are you, Mickey?

No, Mickey, no! Pieces of Mickey fly through the air. Blew my picky to bits so as soon as authorities realized he was missing u.s marshals launched an international manhunt and i cannot believe i can you imagine how annoyed they would be with this judge like wow idiot shocking he ran so logan was on the run for six weeks wow when u.s marshals finally caught him in mexico city they were like hey logan the irish jig is up come with us irish jig is up i love it thank you did you write that yes i wrote that you think that wasn't like a serious article in the Oregonian? Your river dance has come to an end. Okay, no, no. Try again.

Yeah. So he tried to pretend. Guess you need a four-leaf clover now, Logan. Okay, that was better. That was pretty good. I'm working on it. So he tried to pretend he wasn't Logan Storm. He tried to pretend he was his logan storm he tried to pretend

he was his dad and they were like dude shut up you know his new sentencing hearing was in september and it was a doozy he so obviously he played pled guilty to the failure to appear charged because how can you not be guilty to that but other than that he was not interested in taking responsibility logan told the court that this had all been a grave misunderstanding i am not a pedophile he said then he talked about all of the great things he's done for his community he said that his loved ones and really society as a whole would be punished by his conviction. I'm sorry, what?

Yeah, because he's so great. So if you lock him up, then all that greatness, you're putting that greatness in a box, Brandy. The only way to handle this situation was to let him head on home. No. No jail time.

No. And everyone stood up in the court and cheered. It was like a slow clap. Yeah. I mean, what a crazy idiot. That's ridiculous. You get convicted for child porn, you run off to Mexico,

and you really think, oh, I'm gonna try to convince, well, I guess if a judge was dumb enough to let him go, then maybe you would be like, maybe this judge is dumb enough to let me just go home. Logan's mom also spoke. She said her son is a good Samaritan. Once again, this was all a big misunderstanding, and it was all Amy's fault.

How's Amy's fault? Are you ready? Amy had misunderstood Logan's mentorship with his former student. But it has nothing to do with the child porn. She called Amy an insecure snooping kind of woman. What? She said that Amy had framed her son because she was so jealous. Okay.

Get out of here. That's some bullshit. But U.S. District Court Judge Michael Simon was like, I don't think so. Oh, what happened to Answer Haggerty? So I didn't write this down. This guy sucks. Get him off the case. I didn't write this down, but I think that other judge was just filling in.

He died. Well, maybe. I don't know. But I think he was just filling in. I'm not 100% certain on that. So he filled in, screwed the pooch, and then moved along. Michael Simon came in. What's this guy's name?

Michael Simon. The new judge. District Court Judge. Oh, yeah. What's the new judge's name? Wolfgang Puck. Michael Simon, yeah. It is Michael Simon now!

Gordon Ramsay. just name wolfgang puck michael simon yeah it's michael simon gordon ramsay he's like you're getting seven years for child porn and an additional year for that super fun international man who put us through just a year okay that is exactly what i said how much money that costs us a failure to appear charge apparently you do get like a year. But this was so much more than just a failure to appear. It's not like he was like, oh my bad, I forgot. He was a fugitive. He should have been charged with a fugitive of justice. So they were like, and prosecutors had tried to argue for more than just a year for obvious reasons. They were like, this is not typical. He cut his ankle bracelet,

fled to Mexico. And then when we finally caught him, he had the audacity to try to be like, it's not me. It's my dad. You know, I'm my dad. After he received his sentence,

Logan immediately said he planned to appeal. And prosecutors were like, really great. That's cute. Bring it on on because we heard that you touched two girls at a swimming pool in 2007 and they were under the age of 14 what oh so they're gonna bring those up again see you at your next trial oh shit yeah here we go okay so let's talk about that peanut is sn snoring. Team Peanut, she's snoring.

She is snoring. Oh, my gosh. So on June 10, 2007, Logan was at the Mount Scott Community Center pool in Portland. It was really crowded that day, and two girls, ages 8 and 11, claimed that he swam up to them while they were swimming and touched them inappropriately. up to them while they were swimming and touched them inappropriately so police did question him that day but at the time logan storm was a middle school math teacher with no criminal record they didn't think they could win the case so they didn't bother with it but then a few years later when he's caught with all this child porn they were like okay we're feeling a lot more confident in the case let's bring this to a jury this guy was for sure

a creep yep but obviously that took a while because he went on the run twice and he was on he had that trial so by the time he was finally brought to this trial, seven years had passed since that incident at the pool. In pretrial motions, Logan's defense attorneys made the argument that any good defense attorney would make. They asked the judge to bar the prosecution from bringing up the child porn at trial. Holy shit. The defense argued that the prosecution should not be allowed to discuss the prior bad acts. Their case should stand on its own. It's pertinent.

That's so dumb. And so like, I mean. It's a good legal argument. It's pertinent to this case. Yeah, it's what you gotta do when you're a defense attorney, but like it's a good legal argument it's a good it's pertinent yeah it's what you gotta do when you're a defense attorney but like it's absolutely relevant to show that he is a if you're touching little kids in a pool and you also happen to have child pornography there's a connection there's a connection this is really common though i mean usually you can't you can't

bring up that's the that's the tate perk thing Wait, go into more detail. Tate-Purk is the guy who killed Cora Okonski. Yes. And that's how his conviction, currently he is appealing his conviction based on they allowed in evidence of, I believe it was former abuse. And he says that that shouldn't have been allowed. And there's a chance that his conviction will be overturned.

It's going to. I think his hearing is tomorrow. Oh, my gosh. Oh, well, that's our first Patreon post. Yeah. I feel conflicted on this because on the one hand, I'm thinking like, OK, so what if someone when they were like 22 went and burned a building down and they got convicted, they did their time, whatever. Then they get out of prison and then probably any time for the rest of their lives that a building burns down near them. Obviously, they would be a suspect.

I don't have a problem with that. But like, if you can admit all that info into trial, then you could get, you really risk going to prison for something you didn't do. You might not have done. But I mean, Stephen Avery, right? Yeah. I wish there was a different standard for cases like this where it's already so hard to prove sexual assault. Anytime where it's like a he said, she said thing. I think it's so hard to prove that you have to be able to look back on someone's past. Yeah. Well, I think but I think there's a way to say it's connected. Like, Stephen Avery was picked up as a suspect because he was a weird dude and he did weird stuff, like having sex in his front yard and stuff.

Not because he'd actually raped someone or whatever. Not the same. Child pornography and molesting a kid at the pool, same ballpark. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And molesting a kid at the pool, same ballpark. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think there just has to be clearer guidelines on what is related and what's not. Does it make you nervous at all, though, that the prosecution could bring a really weak case against someone and they would probably go to

prison yes it does it does um dax my buddy said that like the way to he he believes that the way to fix our justice system is people have to decide that it is the risk of letting someone go who might be guilty is better than the risk of imprisoning someone who might be innocent. Yeah. And I think that's totally true. Would be horrible. Yeah. Yeah.

And currently our justice system is not structured that way. Currently it's better to imprison someone who might be innocent than to let someone who might be guilty. And see, that's what makes me so nervous. Yeah. No, I totally agree. The name Steven Avery is so familiar to me and I can't. Making a murderer. That's it.

Yeah. I was like, where have I heard that name before? I'm burning up in here. Well, it's because it was freezing when we got here and we turned it. Burn to the ground. What are your thoughts on this, Norm? I think they should, I think it's perfectly fine to bring up, especially if they're found guilty of it, to bring up a previous charge that is absolutely related to a

new to a new charge oh he has a history of doing stuff to you know his history of like child porn so it's reasonable to think yeah this was motivation for him to molest children i think that there might be have to be guidelines around it it. Can you bring in an expert to say that this is a possible progression? It starts with child porn and it progresses to molestation and whatever. Maybe you can't just bring those things in all willy-nilly. You have to be able to have an expert who can connect them. Okay. I'm trying to think of a reason where you wouldn't want to do that.

Like, it's bad to do that. Well, it would be bad because presumably the prosecution could bring a much weaker case against someone. And just be like, well, he did it before. Yeah. In case...

I hate to use this as an example because I think he did it and I think that his conviction should stand. But in the case of Tate-Purk, they don't have physical evidence. They don't have a body. And so the evidence they have is there was a history of domestic violence in the home. And this is how we believe she died. And friends suspected it. And everything.

is how we believe she died. And friends suspected it. Suspected it and everything. But without that, without allowing that previous incident, those previous bad acts in. That case would have nothing. Right. Yeah.

I get it. But I think in this case, they should definitely be allowed. They didn't allow it, did they? No. And they usually don't. I mean, to be fair, that would be very unusual. Yeah.

So the judge agreed, said, okay, prosecution, you can't talk about the child porn trial. This trial lasted five days. The two girls testified. The older one, who by this point was 18 years old, said that he touched her butt twice. was 18 years old said that he touched her butt twice the first time she thought it was an accident but then he came up and touched her again and ran his hand down her thigh so that's when she yelled at him and called him a pervert and jumped out of the pool to tell her mom what had just happened which i just yeah how great yeah you know for. The younger girl had a fairly similar experience. She was in the pool.

He came up, touched her butt, and she jumped out of the pool and told an adult. Yeah. Both of them said they got a good look at him that day, and they ID'd him that day. But the defense argued that the girls were mistaken. They'd gotten the wrong guy. Well, and the police came and talked to him that day too, right? Yeah. Yeah. And just didn't think they had enough to move forward.

Because he was a middle school math teacher. He had little girls' words against an adult. Uh-huh. A well-respected adult at that time. With no criminal record. Yeah. The other thing they said was that the eight-year-old girl had trouble describing where she'd been touched, which I kind of think well

maybe that's just because she was eight yeah and she's under all this pressure and also been how many years it was no at the time when she was eight she had trouble oh okay yeah okay i mean later she she was fine you know okay so the defense called a psychology professor to the stand who testified that you know basically witnesses constantly make mistaken identifications. It's about a third of the time. Yeah. They also called Logan's son to the stand, who by this point was 15, which I feel so sorry for that kid. Yeah.

And I couldn't find much on what his testimony was, but my understanding is that he basically said, you know, he was with his dad the whole time but the prosecution was like come on we have testimony from the two girls they id'd him the day it happened and he was a six foot two man swimming in the three foot deep shallow end of the pool and he was wearing goggles wow gosh and if they had been allowed to admit the child porn charge that would have been like oh it'd be done yeah but i also think like gosh two girls both said the same thing you know at what point do you believe yeah what's their motivation to lie about that right exactly right to for a total stranger they don't know yeah come on so the prosecution called a member of the pool staff to the stand i find this kind of amusing and gross so they were like yeah boy we are trained to look out for child molesters at the pool yeah and the the person said one of the things we look for are adults wearing goggles

in the shallow end of the pool that is a big red flag it's kind of creepy well yeah i mean you don't really think about it but yeah absolutely why why on earth would a grown man yeah be in the shallow end of the pool with goggles on yeah So meanwhile, as this was all happening, the jury was having a really tough time. Some of them worried that Logan had written their names down during jury selection. And at one point, one of the jurors approached the judge's clerk and asked if Logan was in protective custody or if he was out just living his life in Portland. Wow. Yeah. So that freaked out the defense.

They were like, okay, the jury is afraid of the defendant. So defense attorney Michael Levine asked the judge for a mistrial. He argued that the jurors were prejudiced against Logan. He said they saw Logan as a guilty person, a nefarious person, who might reach out to them after the trial was over, which I find so annoying because it's like, well, maybe he shouldn't have been acting like a fucking creeper then.

I mean, they're just using their intuition. They're looking at this guy thinking he creeps me out. Yeah. That's the name of the game. Yeah. And they're four days into this five day trial. Yeah. And they're four days into this five day trial. Yeah.

They're not going to withhold all their judgment until the final day when they go into deliberation. Right. You can't turn your brain off like that. I always think that's so difficult when they're like, you have to be completely impartial as a juror. And it's like, you're not like a robot. You don't just sit there and like. No, you can't turn off intuition. Yeah. Like you get just sit there and like. No you can't turn off intuition. You get a vibe off of somebody. And you shouldn't turn off intuition. No I think that's

part of it. Yeah. So the judge was like no there's no mistrial here. We need to keep on trucking. So in closing arguments this pisses me off so bad. The defense attorney Michael Levine made an impassioned argument over and over again.

He yelled about how seven years had passed since this accusation was first brought against his client. Seven years. Why had it taken so long? Why the huge delay? Why bring this to a jury now? How come he gets to ask that? Because there's a reason why. And he knows why.

And they can't say anything. Yeah. He shouldn't be allowed to say that. I think it's so shitty. Yeah. So shitty. Yeah, if they can't argue the child porn, he can't make that argument. That's messed up.

I cannot imagine living with myself. I know this is perfectly legal for him to do but that's fucked up you you won you got the child porn thing so that it can't be brought up now you're acting like there's something fishy about the fact that it's taken seven years when you know the reason it took seven years was because your client went on the run twice and he had a whole nother trial yeah that's so messed up and the prosecution's hands were tied yeah they can't do anything they just had to not acknowledge the fact that it had been seven years yeah which doesn't look great to the jury it looks fucking weird yeah

so what happens? What do you think happened? I think they found him not guilty. Not guilty. Yeah. Yeah. They deliberated for three hours, and by a vote of 10 to 2, they found him not guilty. Mm-hmm.

Which I think, I have a theory. Mm-hmm. I think part of it was the seven years thing. For me, that would be weird. Why wait seven years? Why are we waiting seven years? But I also wonder about the big argument over a mistrial. And I don't know if that happened in front of the jury. It can't happen in front of a jury. Oh, well, then never mind.

There goes my theory. Yeah. Never mind. But yeah, if he'd been convicted, he would have faced another six to 12 years. And that's the story of Logan Storm. So is he in prison still right now? Or is he out? You know what?

What year was he convicted? I think it was 2013. I bet he got out for sure. He's probably out by now. He's out by now. On parole. I'm guessing he has to register as a sex offender. Yeah.

So he also for 10 years after his conviction, conviction, he has really strict monitoring. Like they, you know, they keep close tabs on him, hopefully. But I mean, was he interviewed in that? No, no. That's the other thing I didn't really like about that show. They glossed over a lot of the really interesting stuff. Yeah. Severe thunderstorm warning in our area.

Yeah, it just popped up out of nowhere. Ladies and gentlemen, if the recording goes out, let's go over our famous last words. Kristen? Oh, God. Oh, my gosh. It's just a thunderstorm. I can't find if he's been released our famous last words. Kristen? Oh, God. Oh, my gosh. It's just a thunderstorm. I can't find if he's been released or not.

Hmm. He has to have a 10, after being released, he'll have 10 years of supervised release. I am not a pedophile. That's what he says. I don't believe him. Yeah.

All right, are we ready? Ready. Ready. So, I was thinking about what I should do for like a birthday case. Yes. Clown? Thought about clowns. Thought about things that happened on June 12th.

Ooh, that would have been fun. What has happened on June 12th besides our birthdays? Besides the day we were born? Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered on June 12th. Oh, that's right. Ron Goldman. I was like, fuck, I can't do that. It's so funny, Meg.

That'd be like an eight-hour episode, right? That's the 25th anniversary. Wow. Yeah. I remember when it happened. Do you? I do. I remember watching the trial as a kid a little bit.

I remember it being my birthday and like... Oh, yeah. Yeah, and like the stuff about the murder being on the news. I was living in Scotland, so we didn't really have any news on it. But I remember my dad listening, because it was like an international when they had the verdict. Yeah. So like the international radio station was playing and we were driving in the car and

my dad listened and he got so pissed when he heard the verdict. I guess my dad had been following it, but. The whole world followed it. So I decided I wasn't going to do that because this episode would be 37 hours long. It's already going to be 37 hours long. So instead, I picked a case about a party.

Heck yeah. A killer party. What do you mean by that? Let's find out. A really fun party. What do you mean by that? Let's find out. A really fun party. It was a really great party. They just made a little too much noise, and it went to court. So right off the bat, I have to say that almost all of this info comes from the same source.

It comes from this amazing article in Rolling Stone by Nathaniel Rich. And I'm basically just... Stealing? No. I am paraphrasing it. Thank you. And I'm basically just stealing. No, I am paraphrasing it. Thank you. And I'm giving him credit. Thank you. That's how we do it on this podcast.

Thank you, Nathaniel. There wasn't shit to do in Port St. Lucy, Florida. If you were a teenager. Port St. Where is that? That's because it's near Miami. That's because Port St.

Lucy wasn't built for teenagers. Named after the patron saint of people with eye problems. So old people? Yes. The town was kind of the brainchild of these three brothers from Jacksonville, Florida, Frank Elliott and Robert Mackle. And they were determined to profit from this big migration of retirees to Florida that started in the 60s. By the way, it always blows my mind that Jacksonville is the biggest city in Florida. Yeah. I just I always think like Miami, Tampa Bay, Orlando, but it's Jacksonville.

That's crazy to me. Anyway, continue. Sorry. I get fired up when I hear that. It's okay. Sure. We all have our passions. That's right, and you're passionate about Jacksonville, Florida.

No, I like the Miami Dolphins. So in 1961, these brothers bought like 40,000 acres of what was essentially swampland, swampland and forest. And then they divided it up into plots that were 80 by 125 feet. And then they placed these big ads in Life magazine and Newsweek magazine that promised this Florida dream retirement. And you could buy these plots of land with these what were promised to be like space age houses on them for really low money. Like $10 down and then $10 a month. Super cheap. But the catch was that you had to pay it for the rest of your life. Like you would never pay off that.

Yeah, but if you never pay off you're kind of like hey right right i got five years left i'll do that so do they just like bulldoze kermit's home yeah yeah what are you doing what's wrong so it worked i'm but yeah but people were pretty pissed and they showed up and they had a chunk of swamp rather than what they thought was like this. Because the ads had this cute little girl with a ponytail on a beach holding a beach ball. And it was like your dream retirement. And then you show up to your plot that you purchased. It's a little dumpy swamp.

A swamp or part of a forest. And there's an alligator winking at you. Yes, exactly. It's just heaven to Kermit. dumpy swamp a swamp or part of a forest and there's an alligator winking at you yeah it's just heaven to kermit um but so by 1980 port port st lucie had grown to 15 000 people and it was just this like manufactured town it was it's like a hundred miles north of miami i believe um guys if you can't hear that, that was a scary crack. It was big.

And so because the population had started to boom, the city had continued to grow kind of outwards and towards the coast. And by 2006, which was kind of the height of the real estate boom, this is kind of where it peaked before the housing bubble collapsed, Port St. Lucie's population had surpassed 150,000. So in 20 years it grew, like 26 years it grew by tenfold. That's incredible. That's huge growth. It was

in fact the fastest growing city in the United States. Wow. Yeah. And as that population grew, the median age of the Port St. Lucie citizen had dropped dramatically. So originally it's all retirees. And now more than a third of the city's population are younger than 24. Wow. And there wasn't anything for them to do. Because it was just like houses, right? Yeah, it's all houses.

And so bored teenagers did what they often do. They smoked pot and they threw house parties. Not me. I was a good teenager. So it's really fun so it's actually funny because um around this time like around 2006 the um you could buy houses in port st lucie for really really cheap um because of the housing boom like sometimes you could buy a little like 1960s house for like $50,000.

And so like Miami drug dealers were setting up grow houses in Port St. Lucie. Like one bust shut down like 69 grow houses in Port St. Lucie. Holy crap. Drive it down to Miami. And so it had this big reputation of being a pot town. They started calling it Pot St. Lucie.

And so that's what the teenagers did. They threw house parties and they smoked pot. And in July of 2011, that's exactly what Tyler Hadley had intended to do. Tyler told his friends all week that he was going to throw a party. And no one believed him. He'd never thrown a party before. It wasn't in his nature. He was kind of a quiet guy, kind of strange, not super popular, but he was kind of known to hang out with

a bunch of potheads and stuff like that. And I think he was kind of a pothead himself. But he had really strict parents and they had gotten even stricter lately because Tyler had started to get in some trouble. He had started to hang out with kind of the wrong crowd. And he'd actually gotten arrested recently after a fight at a house party that he was at. And so his parents had taken away his car keys, taken away his phone. And he was left with his only communications to his friends through his computer, through Facebook. And so by like Saturday, Saturday, July 16th, 2011, it was like 11 o'clock in the morning. Tyler started to get messages on his Facebook.

They're like, hey, you know, is the party on? Are we still having the party? And he's like, I'm working on it. And he got several messages of this kind. And they're like, well, are your parents going to be gone? He said, nope, my parents aren't going to be there. They're leaving soon. And then at 1.15 on that same day, so July 16, 2011,

Tyler posted on his Facebook, party at my crib tonight, dot, dot, dot, maybe. Still, no one was like, everybody was like, it's not happening. So indecisive. Yeah, it's not happening. And then at 8.15 that night, Tyler posted another message on his Facebook, party at my house, hit me up. And still friends were like, what? And there were like several comments that are like, whoa, what if your parents come home?

And Tyler's reply was, they won't. Trust me. Oh, no, he killed them. No, Brandy. Oh, no. Oh, this is such a Brandy case. He killed them so he could have a party? Brandy, no.

Kristen. Brandy. Why would you jump to that conclusion? Because I know how your brain works. I know what cases you're drawn to. The fact that you just said, they won't trust me. And gave me an evil look. Anyway, continue.

So by 1130 that Saturday night, a group of like 10 or 11 people showed up to Tyler's house, including this guy, Mike. Mike was a popular junior from the same high school that Tyler went to. But he didn't actually know Tyler. He only knew him like by sight, like he recognized him, but they'd never interacted before. But word about this party had gotten out. And and so they decided they decided that he'd stop by with his group of friends. Because it was July in Port St. Lucie, and there was absolutely nothing else to do. Wait, was there not much going on in this town? What are you trying to tell us, Brandi? So when Mike and his ten friends show up at the door, Tyler answers it,

and he's wearing a black T-shirt, black Dickie shorts and black Nike Air Force Ones. Better to cover the blood. Red does not show well on black. Mike said that he seemed kind of anxious but he was also clearly rolling on ecstasy. His pupils were huge.

He was rubbing his hands together the entire time he was talking it was just very clear that he was in an altered state this is i just no i just feel like such an idiot with this stuff because like if i saw someone like that i'd be like what's up with that weirdo i would have no idea that he was rolling either when tyler told, come on in. I just don't want smoking inside. This is my parents' house.

Before long, the party had grown to like 60 kids. And most of them had no idea who Tyler was. They just heard about a party. Sometimes that's how it goes in high school. There were kids all over the place. They were on the couches. They were playing beer pong. Why are you pointing at Kristen?

She knows what I'm talking about. No, I don't. Do you know what you're talking about? Kristen threw crazy parties in high school. No, I did not. No, she didn't. Brandy with the evidence. Brandy went to my parties.

I witnessed testimony. They were not cool parties. I didn't say that. I just said they weren't crazy. No. There was no beer pong. There was no beer pong. There was no beer at all. No.

No alcohol. Spice Girls. Yeah. Well, that was, we were not by high school. There was a pool table. There was. There was one of those big screen TVs that was like as big as the house. Oh, yeah.

Giant. Yeah. One of those. The big like rear projector. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Tons of soda. Plenty of snacks. That's right. So many couches. Yeah, one of those. The big, like, rear projector. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Tons of soda, plenty of snacks. That's right.

So many couches. Tons of couches. So many couches. Yes, because my parents never. Everyone gets a couch. My parents never got rid of couches. They just moved them down to the basement. There were just, like, multiple seating areas in the basement.

Yeah. God bless them. Yeah. Yeah. The parties did not disappoint. We played a lot of kristen ball yeah which is a game kristen ball by me how do you play wouldn't you like to do it's basically ripping off the newlywed game but we're friends yep but you called it kristen ball yeah because

she invented it there was no ball don't worry i am am so confused. Okay. It's a Friends reference. Phoebe comes up with the game and she calls it Phoebe Ball. I never watched Friends. Wow. Not bad. Anyway. I was too busy gaming. There's kids everywhere.

They're like looking for snacks in the kitchen. There's beer pong. There's kids making out on every couch, every corner, every chair, whatever. You guys step over people making out. Pardon me. Pardon me. Excuse me. The place was a disaster by this point. There were glass bottles broken on the floor.

There were cigarette butts put out in the floor, like in the carpet, in the rug. A bunch of filthy animals. Oh, yeah. I said no smoking, guys. Tyler was not at all concerned about the destruction inside the rug. A bunch of filthy animals. Oh yeah. I said no smoking guys. He, Tyler was not at all concerned about the destruction inside the house. His chief concern was people going outside

and people making too much noise. So he didn't want the cops to show up. It would attract the attention of the neighbors who might call the police. Yeah. Okay. Didn't want the cops to show up. Yeah. So at first he had been telling people to go out back and smoke when they wanted to smoke,

and then finally he was like, you know what, just stay in the house. You can smoke in the house, that's fine, I don't care. Don't go outside. Is that where the bodies are? Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. What bodies? There was like a crowd kind of gathered around like the family computer. They had like a desktop computer kind of in the dining room area. And they were playing music on YouTube, specifically songs by Wiz Khalifa, which I didn't realize Wiz Khalifa was that popular back then.

2006? Maybe these tapes were really cool. Is this 2006? Yeah. It seems early for him. His early mixtape stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

His early mixtape stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And then it was this one kid, Mike, that I mentioned before. He's kind of like looking around as they're like looking at the music. And he notices that like just different areas of the carpet are really filthy. And specifically like an area around the computer desk is filthy. There's like this brownish dried liquid that's kind of like gotten kind of tacky it's kind of in the creases of the keyboard and then it's kind of like oh in the on the carpet and he's like what

the fuck did someone spill over here it's probably gravy yeah it's probably gravy yeah you know how nasty that gets when you get in your keyboard his thought was that it was probably coke that somebody had tried to do like mixed drinks or whatever and it spilled Coke everywhere and it just kind of got syrupy and sticky. Coke and gravy. Gross. But he didn't really think about it in anything. People kept asking Tyler like,

where are your parents? Are they out of town? And he kind of told everybody a different story. He told one guy that they'd gone to Georgia. He told another guy that they'd gone to Orlando. He told another girl that his parents didn't live there anymore that this was his house now um it's just kind of a different story to anybody who asked by midnight the party had grown grown growing had grown to over a hundred people man um surely the cops are gonna get called right so got a hundred people in the house

concern that's tyler's big concern it's gotten loud the ethyl next door is not gonna stand for the dogs they have the family has two dogs they have a lab and a beagle and they've started to freak out just by the number of people sure and so tyler just like shoves them in different rooms in the house he like locks one in a bathroom and one in a closet and um just think of peanut there are 100 people in this house peanut freaks that when brandy comes over yeah exactly and the place just looked like it had been ransacked like every surface had turned over there's broken stuff everywhere um one girl arrived like around midnight and she had this big crush on Tyler. Her name was Stephanie.

And she by that time it was like 100 people deep. And she managed to find her way to where Tyler was. And she kind of just stood by him. She didn't know him really well, but had this big crush on him. And she noticed that he was acting odd, quieter than usual, kind of like had this far off look in his eye, totally not engaged with the party. But again, like there was drugs there. People were doing ecstasy. People were smoking pot.

So she kind of just wrote it off as, well, he's on something. Right. And she was there with a friend named William, who was also friends with Tyler. And William had known Tyler since he was in sixth grade. And so they kind of talked about it. And he was like, Tyler always acts strange. Like, this is just kind of him. You just don't know him that well.

Like, he'll do this. And then in an hour, he'll be, you know, like, totally normal. By 1230, the party was, like, out of beer. People had started playing water pong because they were out of beer. And so Tyler asked his friend, who was 21 and there, to take him to the gas station that was a block away and go get more beer. And so the three of them, so this guy Mark, Tyler, and Mark's girlfriend Ashley, got in a car and went to the gas station.

Tyler gave Mark money. He went in, bought four cases of Bush Light. Ooh, my beer of choice. So good. I've never had of Bush Light. Oh, my beer of choice. So good. I've never had a Bush Light. Actually, it sounds terrible. Neither have I, yeah. I've had a few Bush Light.

What do you think? I mean, it's cheap beer. It's just watery beer, right? It's watery and it doesn't really taste like much. That's the point of it. It's cheap. Nothing like Miller High Life. No.

The champagne of beers. You guys, we're not sponsored by them. This episode brought to you by Miller High Life. Can you imagine? I'm going to lose my mind. They're a Patreon supporter.

I wish. So, while Mark is in the store buying the beer, Ashley kind of talks to Tyler for the first time. And this is kind of the first time he lets anybody in that something odd is going on with him. And she just he she asked him how his night's going, whatever.

And and all he said was, you know, brushes it off. And he's like, well, my died what and ashley thought it was odd yes and then she thought that he she assumed he meant like a long time ago right and that he was drunk or high or whatever and so she was like whatever dude yeah yeah um so they get back to the house they start up beer pong again and somebody, like, little white pills out of a baggie for a dollar. This party is wild. It seems like a really good deal. Yeah.

For whatever it is. No kidding. Yeah. Somebody else is selling pot. Another group of people show up because somebody sent out a text that this party is the, that Hadley's party was the biggest thing ever. So another, like, three carloads of people show up because somebody sent out a text that this party is the uh that hadley's party was the biggest thing ever so another like three carloads of people show up damn um and then all of a sudden some guy comes in from like out front and he's like and you know making all this noise and he has a mailbox in his hands he He's stolen the next door neighbor's mailbox. Oh no.

Ethel's gonna hate that. Ethel's custom lighthouse mailbox. Tyler freaks the fuck out. He's like, where the fuck did you get that? And the kid is like, I stole it from the neighbors. And he's like swinging the mailbox around in the living room. That's just stuffed with people. He's knocking beer bottles everywhere. And Tyler's like swinging the mailbox around in the living room. That's just stuffed with people.

He's knocking beer bottles everywhere. And Tyler's like screaming at him. He's like, you've got to take that back. You know, stealing a mailbox is a felony. And the police are going to come. He didn't say that. He did. He said stealing a mailbox is a felony.

He's a kid that's just gotten in trouble. I think he knows what's a felony and what's not. Any kid who's ever played mailbox baseball knows that tampering with a mailbox is a felony. You're acting like that's such a common thing. That's only in movies. No, I think that's a real thing in a town where there's nothing to do. No, it is a legit thing. It's a real thing.

Here's a good story for you. Reggie Jackson, famous baseball player, when he was a kid, he would hit mailboxes with his baseball bat for practice. Well, that's just rude. It's a real thing. Well, yeah, it's not cool, but people do it. Do it to my mailbox? Really?

Yeah. Broke my fucking mailbox in half. I was so pissed. And if this is Ethel's custom lighthouse mailbox, she's going to be super pissed. She's going to be super pissed. She got that in Manny-O on her vacation. Eight years ago.

Custom made. Yeah, so he's like screaming at this kid to take the mailbox back, and like the party kind of like screeches to a halt for a second while everybody's like, what the fuck's going on? Well, yeah. And the kid takes the mailbox back, and everything just kind of like goes back to normal. And at that time, one of the kids there notices that the master bedroom door is closed.

And so he assumes that there's people inside getting high. And so he wants to go in there. And so he goes and he reaches the door. But the door is locked. And all of the lights like where the bedrooms were like the hall lights and whatever are off but he noticed that along like the the baseboard near the door there's like a a weird dark streak of what he assumed was paint more gravy yeah more that coke huh more that coke gravy mix that doesn't that doesn't look good but he's like oh

nobody's getting high in there. Now you go find out where they are getting high. And so he just leaves it and walks away. By 1.15, another carload of kids show up. The place is packed. Holy crap. It's loud. It smells just, like, sweaty with all of these, like, over 100 teenagers packed into this house. With all of these, like, over 100 teenagers packed into this house.

This kid that comes, like, around this time, he says that he, his name's Justin. Which, I guess, isn't his real name, according to this article. Everybody else used their real names, but this guy asked for his name to be withheld. For whatever reason. It says that he's a collegiate athlete, so that could be why. But this guy who went by Justin in the article shows up to the party. And he said the first thing that struck him when he walked through the door was not how messy the house was or how many people were in there. It was that the house smelled. It smelled like sweaty clothes that had been sitting around and that, like, it just looked destroyed.

I mean, a house with 100 people in it is probably going to stink. Yeah, and his thought was how are you going to put this place back together before your parents get home? Yeah. And so he went to Tyler. He found Tyler. He knew it was Tyler's party. And he said, hey, man, what are the ground rules? And Tyler said, do whatever you want.

So this kid, Justin, goes over and he starts playing beer pong. And he misses a shot. The ball bounces onto the floor it rolls under the table and he gets down under there and he the ball has rolled into another thick brown sticky substance and so he picks it up and he's like that's disgusting um but he's like this is a disgusting party like there's so many people here so he doesn't think much of it he goes over he rinses it in the sink and back to beer pong. Think about that.

They're throwing that in a glass of beer that they then have to drink. Yeah. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Tyler made a ton of gravy that night. So by this time, it's getting pretty late. People are starting to leave.

And one of those people is Mark, the 21-year-old that had gone on the beer run early. So as he's getting ready to leave, Tyler asked him if they could speak privately. Oh, boy. And so they went outside. I need you to help me dump something. So they went out back, and there were kids out there smoking and whatever. And he's like, you guys got to go in the house. I need to talk.

And so he pushes everybody inside. And then he turns to Mark and he said, dude, I did some things. I might go to prison. I might go away for life. I don't know, dude. I'm freaking out right now. And Mark's like, what are you talking about? And he said, dude, I know you're not going to believe me.

No one will believe me. I freaking killed somebody. And Mark's like, whoa! Dude, if you killed somebody, that's your own business. Don't be telling me that sort of thing. I don't need to know. And he left. How could you have that reaction?

I think that's a good reaction to just leave. Now, I would hope he would call the police. Well, yeah. Yeah. Right after. Right. But I think it's smart to be like, none of my business,

because it might be a dangerous situation. Yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah. So. So Mark leaves, and Tyler goes back into the party as he's walking in. Another group of people are walking out, like getting ready to leave. And he runs into one kid and the kid's like, hey, thanks for having us over.

Thanks for the party. Thanks for the beer. And Tyler responds to him and he says, I just wanted to do something fun before I left. And the kid's like, where are you going to prison? And Tyler says, I'm going to kill myself. And the kid's like, why would you do that? And Tyler says, because I did something really bad. And the kid's like, what did you do? It can't be that bad.

And Tyler said, don't worry. If I get caught, I'll be in jail a long time. just had to tell somebody huh yeah he couldn't he could so he kind of repeated this thing with a couple of different people right he was like made little like vague comments about how he was going away or how he's going to get in trouble or whatever and then by around uh one o'clock in the morning he found his friend Michael Mandel or Mandel um M-A-N-D-E-L-L probably Mandel and he asked him to go for a walk with him so Tyler and Michael had been best friends since they were eight years old and for a lot of that night they had been together like they'd sat together in the living room while everything was going on they played beer pong together whatever

but while Michael had been kind of like chatting it up with everybody else, Tyler was always just kind of zoning out and staring off into the distance. And so the two of them go for a walk. They walk down to the block like at the end of the street. And Tyler turned to Michael and he said, I killed my parents. And Michael just looks at him. He's like, yeah, right. And he said, Michael, i'm being real i'm

not lying to you if you look closely enough at the house you'll see the signs oh whoa okay and so he told michael to look at the driveway and so they turned back towards the house by this point and he said my, my parents' cars are in the driveway. They didn't go out of town. And Michael's like, holy shit. So Michael said, well, good party. See you later. Yeah.

Well, so he's like, Michael's like not still not believing it. So Tyler's like, come on, let's go look in the garage. And so they go in the house and they go to the garage and Tyler like looks around to make sure no one sees them and they slip into the garage. And Tyler shuts the door behind him and he shows Michael a bloody shoe print on the floor of the garage. And Michael runs out of the garage immediately. Well, yeah. And then Tyler took him to the master bedroom. yeah and then tyler took him to the master bedroom so remember someone earlier had seen that streak of something like black that he thought was paint on the bottom yeah um tyler

unlocks the bedroom door and opened it and inside michael saw just chaos in this room there were dining room chairs there were blood-soaked towels stacked in a huge pile and at the bottom of the pile kind of sticking out from one side was a human leg oh and that's when tyler walked michael through what had happened that day that afternoon like just before five o'clock tyler said he that he hid his parents cell phones so that they couldn't call for help and then he'd listen to this song feel lucky by lil boozy who's a rapper i've never i listened to this song today i'd never heard it before and it was not good man i love lil boozy you do not know i've never heard of him so he listened to that song to kind of like psych him up and then he took three pills of ecstasy i was gonna say he had to have been high out of his mind to do something like that.

Yeah, so he took three pills of ecstasy because he didn't think he could kill his parents while he was sober. Absolutely. And then he went out to the garage and grabbed a claw hammer. Oh. And then he walked back into the house and he went and stood behind his mom as she was working at that desktop computer he said he stood behind her for a full five minutes then he raised the claw hammer and hit her in the head with it oh and she screamed why why and he continued hitting her and then upon hearing his wife's screams, Tyler's dad came running in. And he was a large guy.

Yeah. But he was defenseless against Tyler's hammer. Yeah. And so Tyler beat him with the hammer as well. And Blake asked the same question. Blake was Tyler's dad. And he asked the same question. Why?

asked the same question blake was tyler's dad he asked the same question why and tyler shouted said he shouted why the fuck not as he beat his father to death with the claw end of the hammer and he said he just repeated it over and over wow yeah that's horrible tyler told michael that when he was done he wrapped towels around his parents head heads and then dragged them to their master bedroom and lay their bodies side by side. And then he spent the next three hours cleaning up as much as he could. And he just piled anything that had any blood or anything on it into that master bedroom. But he couldn't clean everything. That's what those dark, gooey spots were.

Is it fair to say there was blood everywhere there was blood everywhere gosh sorry i just lost my this is so sad oh it's terrible he said after he'd cleaned everything up it was like eight o'clock remember he posted that the party was on at like 8 15 on his facebook he said he at like when he was done cleaning up at eight o'clock he went he took a shower and then he stood and he stared at his reflection in his bathroom mirror and he just laughed and then he posted that the party was on so obviously it sounds like as the night went on he came down off of his high and he realized what he had done. Kiki!

Kiki! Kiki is in the bag of paper towels. Look, she loves it! She was sleeping earlier. Should I leave her in this? Yeah, look how cute she is. She's having fun. I'll take her out.

Just take her out. Come on, buddy. Kiki. Kiki. She's always having fun in there. So. she's always having fun in there so uh Michael was completely disturbed by this

information and by seeing part of one of Tyler's parents dead bodies but he didn't leave the party he stayed for another 45 minutes. See, that is nuts to me. And he even took a selfie with Tyler before he left.

What? This picture is kind of like a notorious picture now. It's readily available online. I couldn't look at it. Yeah. After he's already been told what Tyler did, the two of them took a selfie together. Knowing the context, I could not look at that photo. Yeah.

That's disturbing. And, yeah, I'm just thinking if I were in that guy's shoes, if he's like, I killed my parents, I would also be like, yeah, very funny. Yeah. But as soon as I saw a bloody shoe print in a garage, I would leave. I would book it, and I'd go to the police.

But, yeah, it's disturbing to take a picture yeah yeah so somewhere around 2 a.m michael kind of ditches the party and at that point someone like kind of stood up and announced that there was a bigger better party going on at a neighbor's house. And so kids started like running out. They're tossing drinks in the lawn. There's cars peeling out everywhere. It's getting very loud. And so it's like all of these cars peel out of the neighborhood.

And the neighbor's here. Yeah. Ethel is finally awoken. Ethel's pissed. But the thing about the party, the rumor of the party wasn't true they all show up at this girl's house for this party she comes out in her pajamas what the fuck are you guys doing here and so they all head back to tyler's house no no but by this time the neighbor whose name is actually rayanne not ethel she yeah she is fed up she's heard the noises all night but they've you know been to kind of a dull roar.

But this is too much. These cars peeling in and out of her street. So she calls the police. She's trying to watch Matlock. Uh-huh. But by this time, there's only maybe 20, 30 people left at the party. Right. And so the police show up. And Tyler has everybody kind of go to the back of the house.

He turns all the lights off. And he goes and answers the door. And he talks to the police. The police explain that there had been noise complaints. And Tyler apologizes. He talks to the police for a few minutes. They leave. They never come in the house.

And everything's good. Oh. Huh? Yeah. Oh, God. the place for a few minutes they leave they never come in the house and everything's good oh yeah but like by 2 30 more people are coming back to the party after having left for that other house and realizing there wasn't anything there and the party just continues and tyler is kind of on that thing again where he starts telling people I'm going away. This is my last thing, you know, whatever. Yeah.

And at 4 40 AM, Tyler posted another message on his Facebook wall. He said, party at my house again, hit me up. And maybe Tyler would have had another party that next day. Maybe more people would have come over that next night. But at that exact moment, the police were outside his front door.

Because when he had left the party, Tyler's best friend, Michael, had called the Crime Stoppers hotline. Yeah. And told them what Tyler had done. Good for him. Yeah, good job. Still messed up. You took the selfie. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah, good job. Still messed up you took the selfie, but thank God he did the right thing.

So it was like 4.32 a.m. when police came to the Hadley home. They came in kind of from both sides, and they weren't really sure what to expect. And so two officers went up and rang the doorbell. I think there were other officers stationed kind of around the house in case anything went wrong. And so at approximately 4.32 a.m. police show up outside of the Hadley home. Two officers kind of come in from opposite directions. They don't know what to expect. They know that there's

been a party going on. They know there's been a lot of drugs. And so they kind of get a view inside the house. I believe there were other officers stationed around just in case anything went wrong. They didn't know if he was dangerous. They believed he had killed his parents. Who knows what else he could be capable of? And so they observe him through like the front window of the house, just like pacing back and forth. And then he starts picking up like stacks of books and like throwing them in a different part of the house. And so finally, they're like, we just got to take care of this. And so they, they ring the doorbell. And Tyler kind of walks back and like turns the lights off in the house before he comes up and answers it. And so finally he answers the door and they said like it was very clear that he, you know, was on drugs. His pupils were dilated. He had, you know, just like a very wide eyed look about him and he wasn't blinking. They asked him to come out of the house, and he did.

And then they had him, you know, get on the ground, and they handcuffed him. He still had on his black shirt, black shorts, black shoes. But initially when they'd opened the door, he was holding one of his arms behind him, and so they thought he might have been – Had a weapon. Might have had a weapon, so they had him put his hands up. Finally they get him handcuffed, whatever. And they ask him if there's any adults in the house and he says no and he said just just do it just i know i'm going to rock road which is was kind of is like um kind of what they call

i think they it's either juvie or just like the county jail somewhere he was familiar with and so he's like i know i'm going to rock road just take me there but they don't they leave him handcuffed in the driveway and they make entry into the home and he is yelling from outside you can't go in there don't go in there and the police just walk into this what looks like a war zone where this party has taken place this house is fucking destroyed but they head straight for the master bedroom which is where they had been told through that tip from michael where the bodies would be and so they walk to the bedroom the doors locked they force it open and they find bodies and blood everywhere so tyler was arrested and charged with first degree murder of both of his parents. When he was being held in the St. Lucie County Jail awaiting trial after he was charged and everything, he was a celebrity.

Why? It was crazy. Every person he'd ever met wrote him a letter. It was like a huge. In support? No, in support no just like whoa dude that was crazy i can't believe you did that every person who was at like people started bragging about being at that party yeah i was there yeah okay yeah i have a quote here from one guy who said um when he found out about the murders he thought wow i just went to the party of a lifetime it's messed up what he did but 20 years from now i'll be able to say i was there that's kind of cool what a weird thing to be proud of no shit right i'd be like i'd be disgusted and horrified. Yeah.

My first reaction would be like, wow, that's cool. And the other weird thing that started happening is people, teenagers started rationalizing what Tyler had did. Oh, God. They said, oh, it was the drugs. You know, he never would have done this had he not been on the drugs or his parents were super strict. They were asking for this. Wow. No.

It's nuts. But Tyler kind of kept his head straight. He was clean now. He was sober. He got his GED. He took the SATs and got like a 2100, which I don't know, sounds okay. I have no idea. I don't know.

I have no idea. Because we were ACT people. Yeah. I have no idea what the top score is on SAT either. Because we were ACT people. Yeah. So they changed the scoring system too because I think when I took the SATs, the highest score you could get was a 1500. And I think they changed it to where, yeah, you can get like a 2000 score or something.

So I don't know how it's great now, but sounds pretty good. I think it sounds pretty good. I have no idea. Oh yeah, so he started reading a whole bunch he got really into the harry potter books like he started pitching them to like anybody who would listen to him like you got to read these books they're so good that's good because most people haven't heard of harry potter books and then he also got very into james patterson some viral marketing for harry potter right and then he he found god in jail while he was awaiting trial as well. He began meeting regularly with a priest, and he told the priest that he believed that he deserved to go to hell.

his sins, God would forgive him and he could go to heaven. And so he expressed a desire to become a priest when he eventually believed he would be released from prison. So Tyler committed these murders six months before his 18th birthday, which meant that he was not eligible for the death penalty, which is good because, you know, Florida loves the death penalty. Yeah. Yeah. Good if you don't believe in the death penalty. Yeah. And he's a 17 and a half year old kid, so probably not. That's, isn't it crazy

how six months he'd be tried as an adult? Yeah, if he was, if he was 18, he absolutely would have faced the death penalty. Well, and they're gonna try him as an adult, right?

Yeah, but he can't be, yeah, yeah, of course. He'll be tried as an adult, yes, but he cannot, he cannot get he'll be tried as an adult yes but he cannot he cannot get the death penalty because he's under 18. i'm gonna guess he pleads guilty so reduce the sentence so he was facing two life terms sure and he wrote a note to his grandparents while he was in prison and this is what this is what the letter said. I was just living my life as a normal 17-year-old kid, and the next thing I know, I'm in the middle of St. Lucie County Jail.

I ruined a lot of people's lives, and I can't seem to forgive myself. I find myself crying a lot because of the guilt. Every day I beg for forgiveness, and I ask God not to send me to hell. I don't want to go there. Father Michael told me that if I just confess my sins and repent, then God will forgive me for everything. I just can't get rid of all of this guilt. It's swallowing me whole. I'm extremely nervous that I'm going to get a life sentence. It's making me pretty depressed. i want to say i'm really sorry for all the grief i've stirred up i know everyone thinks i'm a psychopath and all but i'm really sorry for

everything i've been praying every day for forgiveness and for a decent plea offer i should get one since it's my first offense i feel extremely bad for ryan ryan is his brother he had an older brother who had just who had just moved away for college to North Carolina. And he said, I feel extremely bad for Ryan and especially you, my grandparents, and my other grandparents for the grief I've caused. I feel like Ryan doesn't love me anymore, but I know he does, and he's just going through a rough time. It's so hard going through this. I'm scared, and I feel so alone. No.

I say no to all of that. I know, right? That was a whole lot of me, me, me. Yeah. I feel so guilty. Yeah. Pull your head out of your ass. I mean, you should feel guilty.

Well, but here's the thing. Here's the thing. I mean you should feel guilty well but here's the thing when you're writing a letter to the parents of the people you murdered it shouldn't be about well I sure hope

I get a plea deal I'm feeling really sad I don't like it I don't like it no it's horrible. Yeah. I think it needs to be more about what you did and why you're so sorry.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And, you know, what... And he should accept whatever comes to him. Yeah, so... Not be like, oh, God, I hope I get off... I hope I'm easy with this. So, I mean, you were right, Norm. He's holding out for a plea deal. He thinks he's going god i hope i get off i hope yeah so i mean you were right norm he's

holding out for a plea deal he thinks he's gonna be able to get off lighter because it's his first offense you murdered both of your fucking parents yeah really like and and also it like they're like no no real motivation either it was just like a cold-blooded murder well you know you heard he had to do it because they were strict. Yeah. That's not a reason. See, with your mom, you just called her a B in your diary. Oh, yeah. Right. You didn't hit her with a claw hammer.

And then I felt guilty about it afterward. So I wrote a little note saying it was an overreaction. Yeah. So he held out for that plea agreement and it never came of course why would it he ended up pleading no contest which means basically he won't admit guilt but he agrees that there's plenty of evidence to convict him okay and a hearing so when you plead no contest a hearing was held to determine sentencing so the judge would sentence him there's no jury trial there's no jury or anything like that um and so a hearing was held like to give all the evidence and the prosecution gave their

recommendation for what he should be sentenced to and ultimately in 2014 um a judge sentenced him to life without the possibility of parole. Yeah. Yep. That's what he should get. However. Oh, my gosh. In April of 2016, his sentence was overturned. An appeals court determined that the lower court,

that the judge did not consider the possible alternatives to a life sentence. And so they determined that he needed to be resentenced. And so another sentencing hearing was held. And in December of 2018, Tyler was again sentenced to life in prison, this time with the possibility of parole. But he has two life sentences. His parole is being eligible for parole

he'll be like well what's a life sentence is 40 years 45 years yeah so i think i think it's like minimum of 25 before you're eligible if you've got two life sentences so 50 years so maybe by the time he's 70 he'll be eligible for parole he'll never be paroled and i don't think he should be i don't think so either no yeah that that note that you read yeah he said it all oh yeah just and pleading no contest instead of pleading guilty yeah you killed your parents yeah i i it always weighs on me like the value of a life and like taking somebody's life and how unfair that is and he killed two people yeah and two people who loved him unconditionally his parents killed his parents the fact that they were screaming why yeah when he was doing it i mean that, that's horrible. Yeah. To take somebody's life.

Yeah. So his best friend, Michael, the one who called the police and turned him in, he said that this has ruined his life as well. Of course. Yeah. Because he had to see all of that. He had to do that. And then also, he's forever known as the best friend of the guy that killed his parents. And took a selfie with him.

Yeah. And he took the selfie with him. Like that's what he's known for. Like anywhere he goes, anybody who hears his name is like, you're that guy. Yeah. Yeah. And so he says that he does. He knows he did the right thing by turning Tyler and he doesn't regret it.

Of course. Yeah. Like that was absolutely the right decision. Taking the in. He doesn't regret it one bit. He absolutely did the right decision. Taking the selfie, not so much. Not so much. Hopefully he was drunk or high or something when that happened. I don't know. I think he rationalized it at one point by saying he knew it was the last time he was ever going to see him.

And they'd been best friends since they were eight. Okay, well, that's just weird. But whatever. He did the right thing ultimately. So that's the story of one killer party that is nuts you imagine he threw he killed his parents and then threw a party with their bodies in the house still but don't worry he found god yeah and harry potter and harry potter yikes yikes is right okay i told you before we started recording that i had a show note

based on the episode that came out last week or today you know whatever so my mom texts me it's about my case so you know we i did the case about gary hurt he murdered gl Glenn Kapitsky. And the prosecution said it was like he thought he did it to try and he believed he could pull off the perfect murder. He did it to see if he could get away with it. And the defense said, no, he killed him in a fit of rage. He was insane because he was having homosexual tendencies and he didn't know how to handle it okay so what my mom said was if gary killed glenn and rage over his homosexual act he wouldn't have been bragging about it all over town i kind of agree with that i don't you don't. You don't. No, I think that he was bragging about it, but he was claiming a different motive. He was claiming he did it just because. Just because, yeah. Just to see if he could pull it off. Right.

He didn't want anyone to know that. But you don't. He didn't want anyone to know. Yeah. But you don't. So, yeah, I think her argument and the argument that I can see is that he wouldn't have said anything about it to anyone if he really had gone into a fit of rage and he was insane in the moment and killed him. It's the prosecutor. I mean, that's I mean, I don't believe he was insane in the moment.

Yeah. But you still believe it's possible that that that the defense's claim is true i still think it's totally possible i think it's totally possible that in a small town this guy is struggling with am i gay am i not gay he i mean if his story is true he got drunk and was taken advantage of by an adult sexually assaulted yeah he goes into a rage kills the guy and yeah you don't want to tell your friends and everybody what what you did or what led you to that because that's part of the shame that's part of the embarrassment so why brag about the murder at all because you have to talk about. Because maybe you are kind of a normal person. It's possible.

I mean, assuming that he is, you know, more of just kind of a, whoops, there goes my phone. Assuming that he is kind of a normal guy who had this encounter, didn't know how to deal with it, flew into a rage. Yeah, you can't just not talk about the night you murdered somebody yeah so maybe you fix up the story yeah so one thing that i didn't mention on the episode that i thought of afterwards is that one of the prosecutions like biggest biggest things that they thought pointed to this is not a rage killing this was a to see if i could get away with it to see is that he took a trophy he took the car keys there was no reason to take the car keys

oh and they said that is a clear sign that this was something more that this was the possibility that he was going to turn into a serial killer because he took a trophy from the scene. That's a really good point. Can you not drink your drink? I mean, what the hell, Norm? Norm can't talk about this because he doesn't actually listen to the podcast.

I just had not finished the episode. I legit was listening to the episode this morning. Wow. What was your favorite part? I don't know. I'm still torn on this case. I still don't know what I believe. I'm torn on it, too.

Norman, are you for fucking real right now? Norman, we're wrapping up toward the end. Hang on. All right. Go. I'm going to fly into a rage and kill you. Oh, no. all right go i'm gonna fly into a rage and kill you i think the argument about taking the trophy that's a great argument yeah and i still wonder about the timeline yeah i agree because if if the argument was

he got like crazy drunk i mean what was it? 15 shots? 6 rolling rocks? Then he goes... You're combining what Brock Turner drank and what Gary... Oh, am I? Oh my god. He didn't have rolling rock? No, that was what Brock Turner drank. Wait, Brock Turner drank rolling rock?

Yeah. So gross. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So he drinks a ton. Yeah. He drinks a ton. Goes and... Runs into Glenn somehow

and they go back to Glenn's house and have some kind of homosexual... Then he sobers up and in that very same night goes back and kills... No, I don't buy it. I don't buy it. That's not enough time to sober up.

Yeah. No. But it could have happened. That timeline might not be correct. The timeline might be what you think. Well, I mean, if I'm only saying that the timeline works with what the defense. Hold on. I only buy the defense's theory if the timeline was they have that sexual encounter there's time

for him to think and rage out yeah then he goes back and kills him yeah but but i think that that i can't see that that's the defense's argument because that doesn't show insanity in the moment if you have time to stew on it and think about it for weeks, and then you decide to go back... Yeah, that's because there was no incentive. I agree! You guys should have a theme of court cases that, like... I don't know, like whodunits?

Yeah. Kind of, like, mysterious. Brandy does a lot of those. Like, you do a lot where, like... Oh lot of those. Like you do a lot where like, oh, I hate the ones you do where it's like, was this woman? Oh my God,

Norman. I'm not making any sound. But you stuck your tongue out really far and you licked the inside of your soda cup. It's the sweet remnants of the soda. Do you realize that you're, you know what? This reminds me of the last time you were on the podcast and you were trying to air out your mud butt

and thinking that we wouldn't say anything. You were like pelvic thrusting into the air. Listen. And so we called you out on it. The air conditioning was out. Yeah, we were aware. It was so hot. Yeah, we were in the same room we were and neither of us were doing that.

No kidding. I get really hot. Oh, okay. Oh. Special butt airing privileges extended to Norman. Anyway, still undecided over here. You are? I am.

Hmm. Interesting. Yeah, I... I lean toward the defense. Interesting. What do you got? You got any show notes over there? Well, I'm wondering,

and we'll just say this to the audience. So you guys have been so amazing. We launched our Patreon. First of all, we teased it on Tuesday. Didn't even say the word Patreon. And some of you little sleuthy sleuths were such sweethearts. You found it.

And like 19 people signed up on Tuesday. Before we even officially announced it. That's crazy. It was so cool. You had like a cryptic tweet. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, people went and found it.

Yeah. It was very, very kind. And then today has just been amazing. So I just checked a minute ago. We have 57 people. That's amazing. A lot of them signed up at the supreme court level yeah which is where they get the shout out i don't know what you were thinking but what i was thinking

when we announced the patreon last week was oh we'll get like you know maybe five or ten people at the supreme court level we'll say their names at the end of the episode it'll be a nice induction but now i'm thinking saying 57 names right now not that all 57 of you gotta break it up yeah we gotta break we gotta break it up so we're gonna you know my apologies to all you wonderful people who have signed up we appreciate you and everything but we need to like just think a minute about how we're gonna showcase you we don't want to just like read off a yeah a list and nobody's paying attention yeah we're gonna we're gonna do background checks on everybody that signed up.

And get their life story. And then we'll be like, you know, shout out to Jan. I'm sorry you peed yourself in high school. But we all know now. I'm sure no one remembers. Who's that guy? He was on the Today Show forever who'd be like, it was the Smucker's birthdays and it was

for people who were like 100 years old. He'd be like, Al Roker? No, no, no. It wasn't Al who did it. It was the old white guy. The old white guy. He did the Smucker's birthdays. Wilford Brimley?

No. No. It does start with a W, though. It starts with a W. It does. But you guys remember. Bald guy, yep. He'd be like, and now to Virginia Everett.

She's 99 years young today. And then they'd show her picture. And she's a killer at badminton or some random fact like that. Who calls it badminton? No one. Only someone who's only seen it spelled and never said it.

How do you say it? Badminton. Yeah. Badminton. That's how it's spelled. Nobody pronounces it that way. Wait, how do you say it? Hold on.

Badminton? Badminton. Badminton. Badminton. Badminton. No. Willard Scott. Willard Scott. That's it.

Willard Scott. Okay, but Brandy, Brandy. There are some words that Norman cannot pronounce. Norman, I would like you to pronounce on the podcast the word for the sofa that you can turn into a bed. What is that? A futon. No!

Oh, you've changed the way you say it. How did you pronounce that word when we first started dating? Futone. If you'll excuse me, I'll be taking a rest on my futone. Futone? What is he, a member of NSYNC? Futone. My? Futon. My Joey futon.

I call it a futon. Oh my gosh. Not great at English. No, that's not being bad at English. You speak bad? That's impossible. No, it's just like, it's like you had only seen the word in writing. Yeah.

Probably. That's correct. You're a very good speaker. That's probably correct. I was embarrassed to be like, I don't know how to say this word. So I would just give it a shot. I landed on Fatone. Badminton.

Badminton. Badminton. Badminton. Have we embarrassed you? No. You can't embarrass me. I aired out my butt on the last episode. It's true.

Hey, thanks for spending your birthday with us. Yeah. Thank you. This was fun. It was really fun. Actually, thank you both for spending your birthday this way. This is really cool. It was super fun.

No other way I'd like to spend my birthday, Kristen. If you guys want to hire me as your full-time audio producer, where I can monitor the recording as you record. You actually did so well on this one. Yeah, should we tell them? We had so many problems in this episode. Kristen's computer started like a strobe show at one point. It ran out of disk space.

I started to tell Brandy and she's like, no, I see the reflection in Norm's glasses that it is just. So here's the good news. At the new studio, we'll have it hooked up to your desktop oh that will be good and it'll be like cool clean

be real good oh are you saying you want to be our like little audio engineer boy I do think about that how fun it would be

if I was like the producer that chimes in every now and then and just like I monitor you guys recording we would love that that would be pretty fun would be if I was like the producer that chimes in every now and then. And just like I monitor you guys recording. We would love that.

That would be pretty fun. Would be. Wait, would you want like 55% of the podcast? I'd have to get it bumped up to like 60%. Damn. Absolutely not. Maybe that's the solution to the recording issues is you have an actual audio engineer.

And I'm not calling myself an engineer cause I'm all self-taught. I think you are. Might be cool. You know what else would be cool? What? If people found us on social media, on Facebook, how would I,

how would I go about finding you? So glad you asked. We're on Reddit. We're on YouTube. Have you heard of YouTube? You guys on MySpace? Yeah. We've got a MySpace page. Hey, Norm Have you heard of YouTube? You guys on MySpace? Yeah, we've got a MySpace page.

Hey, Norm, you heard of YouTube? Yeah, I've been on YouTube a few times. Hmm. Hmm. Interesting. Well, I got to tell you something. I think our YouTube channel has like 200 subscribers. What?

Whoa. Coming for you. When do we get that plaque? That 200 subscriber plaque? You need 99,800 more subscribers to get that plaque. You're on your way.

Long road ahead. We're really rolling now. Hey, the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step. Norm wrote that. I came up with that. While he was laying with a single step. Single step. Yeah. Norm wrote that. Wow. I came up with that. While he was laying on a futon. On a futon.

Yes. Airing my butt out. Oh, Lord. Hey, join us on social media and then head on over to iTunes. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review.

We're still working on that 300 goal on our iTunes reviews. And then, yeah, check out our Patreon. Yeah, please. Patreon.com

backslash LGTC podcast. You. Yeah, please. Patreon.com backslash LGTCpodcast. You'll find us there. Patreon.com slash Gaming Historian. Also. What? What? No. You can donate to the podcast by donating to the Gaming Historian.

I don't think that's the way it works. That's fake news. I will say. Fake news, folks. Your Patreon is doing so well. I'm going to redo my Patreon. Wow. Well, you guys have some great rewards and tiers,

and I'd like to start offering that. I think gaming historian stickers might be cool. I think gaming historian stickers would be super cool. For sure. Yeah. Let's put Casey to work. Casey will do it. Casey, give me 200.

I need you. Do my order live on there. Casey's doing like an Uncle Sam point right now. Yeah. All right. So, yeah. Please do all that stuff that we just talked about and then be sure to join us

next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned! I got all my info from a date number show. And now for a note about our... Are you kidding? I didn't know you were recording. When I'm speaking... I didn't know you were going to start. We were goofing off.

Okay, okay. Okay. Are you done with your ice? I'm good. Okay. And now for... And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web,

and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from a bunch of excellent articles from The Oregonian by Helen Jung, as well as an episode of Who the Bleep Did I Marry? And I got my info from an amazing article in Rolling Stone by Nathaniel Rich, as well as an article for ABC News

and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.