Let's Go To Court! - 76: A Shopaholic & the Glensheen Mansion Murder Mystery

Episode Date: July 3, 2019

It’s October of 2014, and the people of Duncan, Oklahoma, are concerned. They haven’t seen the Hruby family all weekend. The Hruby’s are usually everywhere. They own the local newspaper. They’re actively involved in the community. But on Monday morning, their longtime housekeeper made a gruesome discovery. John, Tinker, and 17-year-old Katherine Hruby were dead. Everyone in the Hruby family was dead. Everyone but Alan. Then, Brandi tells us about a murder mystery at the Glensheen Historic Estate. The 20,000 square foot mansion is something to behold. It’s now a museum, operated by the University of Minnesota Duluth. But for a long time, the mansion was home to the Congdon family. In the late 60’s, the original owner’s youngest daughter Elisabeth promised the home to the university upon her death. But her death came sooner than anticipated. Late at night on June 27, 1977, Elizabeth Congdon and her nurse Velma Pietila were murdered. Who could have carried out such a senseless crime?   And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: American Greed episode “Blood Relatives” “Man to spend life in prison for killing parents, sister,” by Nolan Clay for The Oklahoman In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Trail of clues, legal twists kept Glensheen murder case going for years” by Candace Renalls, Duluth News Tribune “Blood money: The grisly murders at Duluth’s Glensheen mansion” by Hannah Jones, City Pages “Man’s Suicide Note: ‘I Didn’t Kill Those ’Girls’” Associate Press “40 years later, Glensheen murders still grip Duluth” by Dan Kraker, MPR News

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about a shopaholic.

And I'll be talking about the Glensheen Mansion murder mystery. I have never heard of that. I am so excited. Really? Yes. Is it an ultimate Brandi case? It's very Brandi and it was recommended by someone in our

Discord. Okay. And like just a couple days ago, I read, like she just posted about it a couple days ago. And I went and read a blurb about it. And I was immediately obsessed with it. Okay. My case this week is also a brandy case. It's horrifying. Can't believe I did it.

Also comes from our Discord. Ooh. And if you're wondering, how do I get into this Discord? What's that all about? Go to our Discord. Ooh. And if you're wondering, how do I get into this Discord? What's that all about? Go to our Patreon. Patreon! Join at the Appellate or Supreme Court levels, and you can get into our Discord. And the Discord's really fun.

Like, it's a good time. Although the other night, Kyle and I basically turned it into a group chat between you me and her it's true it's true do you want to confess what happened so um kyla and i went to a concert together basically yeah so david and i went separately and kyla and jay went separately and they happened to stand like right in front of us we thought there was no way that we'd find each other there uh kyla is my sister by the way for anyone who's like newish so i ran up and got her and they came back and stood by us and so in between um acts we were like standing around talking and kyla was double fisting gin and tonics and sloshing them everywhere. I should say, for anyone who's worried. It was mom's night out.

It was mom's night out. Kyla, poor girl, hadn't had a drink in a long, long time. That's correct. She had two. And when the lines are that long at a venue, you have to buy two drinks. It would be irresponsible not to. So, mommy couldn't quite hold her. She could not hold her liquor. She literally could not hold her liquor.

She literally could not hold her liquor. She was sloshing it all over the floor. The floor became so sticky that her shoe literally got stuck to the floor. So, I was watching all this go down in our Discord from Kyla's home, where I was watching their two children and eating cold mac and cheese out of the refrigerator. Because they don't even have the decency to have nice snacks in the house you know what when you go to babysit when i go to babysit i expect there to be goldfish i expect maybe some candy that i can find hidden yes no nothing of this sort nutragrain bars nope we'll not be back. One star. We'll not be back. Should we hop into it?

Let's get to it. Okay. You ready for this? So, like I said, this comes from someone in our Discord whose name... You forgot to look up? God bless. No, no, no. Oh. Here's how good I am.

Not only did I, like, reach out to her. Oh, my God. I think I just went, like, right into the microphone. That brings me so much joy. I don't know what episode it was, but I remember one time you were, like, freaked out because you were convinced that on one of our episodes you sounded. I'm like a fucking mouth breather. I'm like.

Tell me more christian like i've never learned to breathe properly well i'm proud of you brandy you've made a lot of progress thank you no so i reached out to her i was like hey thanks for recommending this case uh do you want me to refer to you as your username in here or by your name and she said great my name is tag and i was like cool and then she goes like guten tog and i was like oh so tog yes thank you thank you for this recommendation tog sorry taking out my shoe oh lord everybody settle in and get comfy i guess don't don't you hate like sometimes sandals you get

all sweaty yeah i mean but i got flippy floppies on so i'll just slide them right off well i don't do i don't have to bend down i know you don't do flip-flops why don't you do flip-flops do you have something like fundamentally against flip-flops i don't think they're very comfortable okay so i'm sorry i have a flip-flop story real quick first of all i never call them flip-flops? I don't think they're very comfortable. Okay. So I'm sorry. I have a flip-flop story real quick. First of all, I never call them flip-flops. I call them flippy floppies and exclusively flippy floppies. Even when I'm having a semi-serious conversation about them, I call them flippy floppies. David had slides, these Under Armour slides that he apparently has had for eight million years and like they're so worn in that like his toes basically had to like curl around the end of them to keep his feet

inside of them so i was like you can't wear those anymore i'm getting you some flippy floppies and so i he had never had a pair of flippy floppies i bought him a pair like just like ten dollar cheap ass but they're made from yoga mat like so they're super cushy and it changed his life he won't let me throw away the underarm he's like oh yes let's take out the trash and stuff it'd be a shame if something were to happen to them okay top secret right david hit take your earbuds out right now i ordered david this is an ad you don't want to hear this ad i ordered him a pair of adidas ones so that if he refuses to wear the floppy floppies to take the trash out he can wear a pair of adidas slides adidas slides currently

50 off on their website uh you know what's gonna happen they're not gonna be on sale anymore when i no no he's going to be so thrilled. He's going to love the new Adidas slides. He's not going to get rid of the Under Armour slides. So I'm going to present them to him, and it's going to be a trade deal. I got you these new slides. And then with the other hand, you'll be... In order to get them, you must give me those Under Armour ones.

And then I'm going to light them on fire so he can never put them on again. Seems like they're probably highly flammable by now. You ready for this? I don't even know how we got on that topic. I'm so sorry. I am very upset. So this comes almost entirely from a show I love very dearly. American Greed.

Oh. I'm not gonna well. Don't give us the title if it'll give it away. I won't. Keep it in your pocket. But you're gonna know. Keep it in that pocket of that cute little dress. Oh thank you. You're gonna sniff out what's going on here in like 2.5 seconds. I guarantee it.

We're in Duncan, Oklahoma. Ooh. where's that? Oklahoma. What's the next big city by? You didn't even bother to look it up. I can tell you the population. 23,000 people. That's fairly good sized.

That's right. It's in Stevens County. Oh, great. Mm-hmm. Smack dab in the middle, but towards the south. Boy, I'm so glad you looked that up. Thank you. That really adds something. And there's, like, no big cities around. Hmm.

Hmm. It's October 2014, and people are kind of concerned because they haven't seen the Ruby family, like, all weekend. The Rubies are a pretty prominent family in Duncan. They own the local newspaper, and they're involved in the community. Oh, wow. That is a prominent family. Yeah. Yeah.

But all of a sudden, they're just nowhere. Ooh. All of a sudden, they're just nowhere. 17-year-old Catherine didn't show up for school on Friday, and she didn't show up on Monday either. But on that Monday morning, the Ruby's housekeeper showed up for work. She immediately called 911. Was there blood everywhere?

Yeah. This is so sad. In the 911 call, she's like struggling to get control of their voice. They never said her name, but she'd obviously, she'd been with the family for a really long time. And so she's struggling to get control of her voice. And she says that Mr. and Mrs. Ruby and Catherine are laying on the floor. She thinks they're dead. And a while later, she says,

their bodies are ice cold. Oh, gosh. So, needless to say, stuff like this does not happen in Duncan. It doesn't really happen anywhere. I mean, it's just nuts. So investigators swarm the scene, and one of the people who shows up is Lieutenant John Byers.

John immediately sees that the rubies have security cameras around the outside of their home he's like okay that's a plus then he walks into the home and that's where he sees for himself that katherine john and joy who everyone calls tinker and even in her like byline in the newspaper, she goes by Tinker, they've all been shot. John was stunned. A lot of questions came to mind, but the biggest one was...

Whodunit. Well, yeah. The biggest one was, the Rubies are a family of... Four. Yes! who's missing another daughter 19 year old alan oh so before we get into that like who he is who he is where he is, where he is. Let's talk more about the Rubies. Let's. They owned the Marlowe Review newspaper, which was a weekly newspaper that covered Marlowe, Oklahoma, which I am assuming is like five seconds that away from Duncan.

So Tinker covered crime for the paper, but she was also super involved in the kids' school, and people in town called her the casserole queen which is the most midwest thing i have ever heard yeah and it's like a very prestigious thing oh yeah west yes if there's a funeral if there's a baby that's been born oh yeah um you better have your best you got someone in the hospital oh casserole. Mine, obviously, is sausage brunch. Sausage brunch. What's yours? I do like, well, I call it hamburger pie, but it's like shepherd's pie. Okay, I approve. You know, other Midwest dishes, you know, a lot of casseroles will have,

this is so white trash, but it's delicious. When people, like, crunch up potato chips. Oh, yeah. Or Doritos. Oh! Oh! trash but it's delicious when people like crunch up potato chips oh yeah or doritos invite us to your potluck i've heard in minnesota they call it a hot dish hot dish yeah i love that a lot of places call it hot i love hot dish but you know i can't help where i was born that's right john was an eagle scout no which you know as you know, as we know, on this podcast, that person's not a fan. I can go one way or the other. John seemed like a good guy, though. All right. He was also a photographer. And newspapers were like in his blood. They were the family

business. His father was the publisher of the of the Duncan Banner and at some point I didn't get an exact year on this but they sold the Duncan Banner and let me tell you they had to have sold it a while ago because they actually made money selling a newspaper you don't get any money yeah now it's like a charity case so they put they took that money which was more than a million dollars, into a trust. So there they are, living in Duncan, Oklahoma, in a nice house, driving nice cars. They've got two children, Alan and Catherine, and they're living pretty well. They can afford to put their kids through college. Life is good. So from what I saw, John and Tinker didn't live like a super flashy lifestyle. Like, I imagine they were like what I think of as like Midwest rich.

Yeah. Which is like, you've got it. You don't flaunt it. Yeah. You don't really, you know, you just have a few nice things and that's life. Yeah. Alan, not so much. Ooh, he was flashy.

Picture this. Alan, not so much. Ooh, he was flashy. Picture this. In his yearbook photo, he was wearing a Burberry button-up. Ooh. I mean, that's like screaming. That is.

Do you know how much a Burberry shirt is? No, I've never priced them. Like 500 bucks. Well, that's exactly what you would expect a 17-year-old to have, right? No! Ew, what did you wear when we were 17? Were your shirts only $200? No, I've never owned a $200 shirt.

Neither have I. So, Alan loved designer. I own a lot of $40 shirts. Queen of the $40 40 shirt that's expensive that's like my expensive shirt it's like 45 alan loved designership yeah he had a gucci wallet he had louis vuitton shoes and you know he he made sure people knew about it Subtlety was not his thing at all. So he and his sister Catherine were very different in that respect. She made the varsity volleyball team her freshman year, and she was all about just hanging out with friends. She was not flashy on social media. This American Greed episode, God bless them.

They go and do a deep dive into Alan's Twitter account, his Instagram, and they start pulling up all this stuff. So, of course, what the hell was that? It was my throat! I don't even know! Do you have a little man trapped in there? Oh, goodness! I did a creepy thing.

You stalked him? His Twitter account is still up. Obviously, he hasn't posted in a while. But it's still up there, and people go on there and they troll him. Ooh. So, like, one tweet from... You really went full Brandy on this case. I couldn't help myself.

I was like, huh, they're pulling up his tweets. And so I had already Googled his name to try to find more articles about him. And there's just not a ton out there. But you can find his Twitter account. And one of the tweets that I came across was, how can you willingly eat ramen? Okay, first of all, it's delicious. Yeah, exactly. Very easily served.

But, so another one that he had. People who say money can't buy happiness have obviously never been on a jet ski. When they crash it, they crash it with a huge smile. Oh my gosh. Also, you ready for another? Yeah.

Money isn't everything. It's just the basis of our world. I want a watch for Christmas and not a Walmart one. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Woohoo. Yeah.

So I've been through his tweets, obviously. And they're mostly just someone trying to be funny and also with like a bit of douchebaggery just sprinkled. Well, no, more like mixed in thoroughly. Heavily folded. Yeah. Like a Midwestern marshmallow salad. That shit was folded in very nicely. So people in town say that Alan is super materialistic and and he's like, at this point, spending all kinds of money.

Mm-hmm. And as a result, things start getting tense at home. Two years before the murders, Alan tweeted, All I want for Christmas is a less psychotic family. Hashtag getting ridiculous. Ooh. Mm-hmm. Hmm.

You on his side? No! You should be. No, I should not. He clearly murdered his family. About a month after he made that tweet, Tinker talked to him about his out-of-control spending, and he choked her.

Oh! Police were called, but Tinker, I mean, she did what i think probably any mom does she was like no hey we don't want to press charges we've got this under control we're all good yeah but where was he getting all of this money that's what i want to know how's he buying like burberry shit is expensive and it was the least expensive of the items on that list right like you know i love burberry i do know this i have a burberry purse that i bought second hand because it's fucking expensive you're gonna get that shirt no

first of all i don't want to wear burberry oh i don't want to wear their design like i i love their plaid but i want it like you know it's like on the strap on my purse and like it's on the lining of the purse and that's good for me you're i don't need like a full suit of it you're more subtle yeah yeah yeah okay okay i'm secondhand subtle too i'm not paying full price for that thing because I like a bargain so the episode didn't get too much into this

but I imagine that John and Tinker did give Catherine and Alan some money so that explains some of it but Alan obviously

had stuff that was so over the top that they knew something was up. Because Alan did not have a job, obviously. Alan. Well, that's not really, that doesn't fit into the lifestyle. You don't want to have to work for him.

Well, you don't want to have to show up at McDonald's in a Burberry top. I think it's called a top when a man wears it. In a Burberry blouse. Do you have a guess as to how he could afford all this shit? He was pilfering money out of the trust. Not a bad guess. You're close. Okay.

But no cigar. Okay. It was coming from his grandma. Mm. Who had dementia. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay. But no cigar. Okay. It was coming from his grandma. Mm. Who had dementia. Oh, shit. Yeah. Ugh!

Yeah, this is bad. He would talk her into giving him money. He'd drive her to the ATM. She'd take out the cash, and he'd pocket it. Oh, gosh. That's disgusting. And it was a lot. Obviously. Obviously's disgusting. And it was a lot. Obviously.

Obviously a lot. Yeah. He even had her credit card at one point. Yeah. Horrible. But the thing is, taking this much money from someone and being this flashy with it is a hard thing to cover up. Yeah. You can't cover it up when a hard thing to cover up. Yeah. You can't cover it up when you're trying to flaunt it.

Yeah. Eventually, John and Tinker figured out what was going on and they were furious. Yes. I'm furious. What would you do? I don't even know. I mean, I don't even know what you would do. No, it's one of those situations, I think, that is so hard.

Yeah. But they took him down to the sheriff's office. Ooh. For, like, an amateur, like, scared straight thing. I think they were kind of, they didn't want to put him through the legal system. Yeah. Because he was so young. They were afraid they might, like might mess up his future somehow.

So this was their solution. The people at the sheriff's office are totally playing along, and they're like, look, man, white collar crime leads to time. Time in prison. And Alan was like, ooh, I'm so scared. Shaking in my little space boots. Get ready to experience an all-new Don Valley North Lexus.

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. I don't know really how hard John and Tinker really were on him at this point, because in the summer before his senior year of high school they gave him airline miles to go backpacking through Europe the summer before his senior year yeah wow I know right like that's usually like a graduation present well summer before my senior year I got to go to church camp. Yeah. Look at you. And I turned out great.

Damn it. You really did turn out great. Oh, thank you. You too. Thanks. Now let's talk about this guy who did not turn out great. Alan had a great time. He goes to London, goes to Paris, goes to Rome.

Had a great time. He goes to London, goes to Paris, goes to Rome. But you know, all his parents gave him were those shitty airline miles. And who wants to really backpack? And who wants to stay at a hostel and all that? Yeah. And you know, Europe can be expensive. Yeah. So how did Alan pay for everything he wanted to do in Europe?

I don't know. His grandma's credit card? No. No. A stolen credit card? Nope. Okay. He got a job.

He created a budget. No, he did not! You're so full of shit! No, of course! He forged his grandma's name on a credit card application and he used that to pay for his trip. Awful. But again, he did not get away with it. Yeah.

Right before his senior year of high school begins, Tinker and John find out about this credit card. And once again, they are so angry. But this time they were like, wow, okay. Maybe our precious little shithead needs to suffer some consequences i went in really hard though when it's your kid you know i told the two girls with i know we have no children but i i feel for them because i feel like this might be the approach i would take of like first time it happens you want to go right up to the limit and hope you can just scare the shit out of the kid. Yeah, of course.

You know, make him do a U-turn. Yeah. But then they do the same shit on a grander scale. No. So this time they turned him into the police. Good. And he got arrested for credit card fraud, which is a felony. Yeah.

They showed this footage of Alan. He's being questioned in a room that has a, I want you to picture this. Okay. You know, so not full on wallpaper. Okay. We're talking about a wallpaper border. Border. And on that border, there are busts of Labrador dogs.

Okay. So just like. Just like from the chest up. Just from the chest up. You know, you got the black one. You got the brown one, you got the gold one, kind of looking off into the distance, and they're in like a country scene. So that's the festive border that's going on behind him. So weird.

Is this like a hunting lodge, or is this the police station? I found it so distracting and so charming. So it's with these dogs looking on that Alan explains the whole thing. Yeah. His grandma authorized the first charge and he got carried away. He took advantage. He meant to pay the whole thing off himself, but he got caught. He pled guilty and went on probation hmm probation huh

yeah he was very sorry so just shut up about it very sorry so sorry he went on to murder his entire family did you read ahead prosecutor jason hicks says that this was the incident that basically completely changed the dynamic in the ruby home basically completely basically can you tell i went on script here's all the adverbs coming at you basically totally definitely completely truly madly deeply so john and tinker they were not messing around anymore yeah they were alarmed by alan's behavior and they were like this is stopping now we are cutting you off financially boom but i think they still paid for college so you know small boom we're half cutting you off we still need

you to get an education so you can get the fuck out of here. Yeah, which, yeah. I mean, makes sense. Alan finishes out his senior year of high school and goes off to the University of Oklahoma. So now we're getting close to the time where John Tinker and Catherine are murdered.

In the week leading up to their murders, John notices that a gun is missing from his truck. Yeah. He calls police to report it missing. And on the Thursday before they were all murdered, a police officer showed up at his house to talk about the missing gun. The creepy thing, I mean, there are so many creepy things. But, like, you know, they had surveillance footage from that time so you see him like the day before this happens or actually the day of and he's talking to this

police officer about this missing gun oh and john's like look it was in my truck now it's not i'm not sure when it went missing it could have been taken while I was at home. Could have been taken while I was at work. Kind of a mystery. But during this conversation, the officer said that John hinted to him that his son might have had something to do with it. He knew something was up. Your head looks like it's going fall off are you okay okay so the idea that this father knew something was possibly up with their kid and then ended up murdered by them that's just so disturbing yeah it really is because you think about like what their thoughts must have been like when they were being killed yeah oh but you know alan was off at college and his instagram proved it he was posting he had this

picture posted of his college stadium, talking about the view from his dorm. No, that doesn't prove shit! No, it's 100%. No, because you could take that picture anytime and post it from wherever. Are you a detective, madam? Yes, I am! Well, welcome to the team.

Good work today. Wait, would you like me to talk about how much of a detective I am? Sure. I told you this story already. I don't know what we're talking about. The tattoo story? Oh. Oh, yes.

Should I tell this? Yeah, you might as well. Okay, so. Throw in an allegedly, too. Oh, absolutely, I will. Okay. So, I've mentioned a couple times on here that I was recently getting tattooed. My piece is finished, whatever.

So, I went to this. And it looks amazing, by the way. It does look amazing. I posted it in our Discord. That Tweety bird is just. It just really brings out my eyes, doesn't it? Right here on my cheek. I went to this guy who I have followed on Instagram for years.

He's so talented. He's so super talented. He owns a private studio in Lawrence. And he rents out part of his studio to this other artist. So last week I was on Facebook and the tattoo studio posted this long post about how this other tattoo artist is no longer affiliated with them, effective immediately. And we're sorry for any inconvenience. If you had appointments scheduled with him or deposits down with him, you will have to contact him about those.

And they made it very clear, like, we don't have his deposits. He takes those directly. He's a contract artist. And then they were like, we're very clear, like, to be clear, all ties are cut with him. Yeah. And due to the nature of his departure, it may take some time for him to get back to you when you attempt to contact him about your appointments or deposits. So pause right there. Yes. So that's what the post says. Yeah. And I'm sure you saw comments from other people who'd seen it. What does a normal person

do when they see you? So I don't know what a normal person does, but I'll tell you what I did. I immediately screenshot it and sent it to David. And I was like, holy shit, look at this. Because first of all, this is a small studio. So this other artist has been there every time I was there getting a session done on my tattoo. And like, it's just four people in there, whoever he's tattooing. Right. And him and then my tattoo artist and me.

And so we all talked. So I've talked to this artist several times. So my immediate thoughts when I read it were, holy shit, this sounds like he got arrested. And for something bad for this to be their immediate reaction. Right. If it was like he got caught with some pot. Exactly. It'd be a very different story.

So I put on my detective hat and just luckily always nearby nearby never more than an arm's reach away um and i went to the douglas county sheriff's department website because the tattoo parlor is located or the tattoo studio is located in douglas county kansas and so I had to fucking sign up for an account. So I was really pissed about that. But a few clicks later, I was into the booking reports for the day before. And there his name was. He had been arrested and booked the day before on horrible charges.

He was charged with indecent liberties with a child two counts of criminal sodomy against a minor older than 14 but younger than 16 and two counts of forcible rape that is disgusting disgusting so yeah so my my reaction my initial thoughts were correct allegedly i mean he's only been charged there's been no trial yet but so they have set no bond for him which makes me think that that they have some very concrete evidence i mean i really commend the my tattoo artist for like taking steps to immediately act upon this and like cut those cut those ties no kidding yeah there's no need to be hanging around that yeah but so when you ask kristin if i am a detective the answer is yes the number of things what also i feel like you should take away from this is if you even if i even remotely know

you and i think you did something bad i I'm going to figure it out. Hold on, hold on. Not just if you think they've done something bad. Yeah. You've looked up everyone you know, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so let's just be clear.

It's not like you're like, I don't know, this person gives me a bad vibe. You're like, I met a person. Let me see what they've done. I will find it. What's the most shocking thing you've ever found um a former employee of mine like oh yeah she um when she worked for me she was like this super mom she had like two boys who were very into baseball she was like the team mom they did like like traveling tournaments, all of this stuff. Very put together, whatever. All of a sudden she's got these crazy posts on her Facebook page. And so I went and looked her up and she had all of these charges for her possession of meth.

And then like two days after that, a news story came out that she was involved in a situation where there was like alleged kidnapping. She took a made a friend of hers, like take her to this house to go buy meth. And then she it was like a setup. There was a guy inside and they held her friend against his will. She was arrested and charged with kidnapping and all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Crazy. And I just would never have guessed that when i knew her meth is terrifying oh meth is so

fucking scary yeah but yeah so that's definitely the craziest thing i've ever found that wins for sure for sure yeah lamest thing oh i don't know really because, because, like, for me, there's just, like, satisfaction in finding anything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, like, a traffic ticket. Yeah. Didn't have that seatbelt on. Thought you could speed and get away with it.

Not today. So, you know, Alan is off at college. Yeah. And even though you're super, you're super paranoid, Brandy. Yeah, so he has taken a picture from his dorm room at some point. He's in his dorm room. And then he posted. He's looking out.

No, because there's coding in Instagram. They're going to be able to go back and see that he was at the Ruby house when he posted that. Well, I wish you could be more trusting. I wish you could be more trusting. So on Thursday, October 9th, 2014, there's surveillance footage of Allen and some buddies checking into the Ritz-Carlton in Dallas. Because why not, Ritz-Carlton? They were going to watch the OU versus Texas game

at the Cotton Bowl, which is a whole bunch of words I don't understand. Can you name their mascots? Texas? Just, well, what college in Texas are we talking about? We're talking about the University of Texas. Longhorns. Longhorns, good job!

Okay, what about the University of Oklahoma? Sooners. Yes. Walk. Oh, holy shit. Try not to die. And what is a football? I know this from Charlie Brown.

So they stayed there. They had a great time. They partied. They checked out on Sunday, October 12th. Again, surveillance footage. He stayed there. They had a great time. They partied. They checked out on Sunday, October 12th. Again, surveillance footage. He was there. Don't you? Mm-hmm.

Yes. There's the footage. What more do you want? Okay, so there's footage of him on the 9th and the 12th, right? Yeah. There's days in between there. There sure are. 10th and 11th.

Yeah. Everything was really normal. His friends all said so. Yeah. Everything was really normal. His friends all said so. Yeah. Because he paid them to say it. Wow. Did he buy his alibi? Just hang on tight, okay?

I'm sorry you can't look this up right now. So as we already know, the housekeeper discovered the bodies on Monday, October 13th. Well, what's that surveillance? Doesn't mean shit then. It means something. He leaves on the 12th. Means he was, you know, off in Texas for a while as this was all going down. Anyway.

Wow. For our listeners out there, that was the eye roll to end all eye rolls from Brandy. Let me just pause and say I love this case, by the way. I'm so glad.

I find it horrifying. I knew you'd be into it. You looked like Will Forte when you said that i know what you mean though he does that like yes because i'm so manly no so okay at movie night yes we watched mcgruber yeah i gotta say okay, well obviously very stupid movie. Stupidest movie ever, but hilarious. Yeah, we did laugh. Yeah. The opening scene where he's like where he's off like in his little white robe

he looked really hot. I was like Will Forte's hot. Oh my gosh, I don't think so. No, Will Forte was hot there. Was he? Yes! He had all this long hair and like a braid. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were so uptight because I've got a big tattoo. I was shocked. He had all this long hair and like a braid. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know you were so uptight. Because I've got a big tattoo.

I don't like long hair. My boyfriend is bald. And that's the way. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I like it. So we already know Housekeeper discovers the bodies on Monday. Police rush to the scene.

The bodies had obviously been there for a very long time. Well, sometime. Sometime. Maybe they were murdered on the 10th where there's no surveillance video of him being in Dallas. So they're all kind of suspicious because they knew Alan was a shithead. I mean, it's a small enough town. They know what's up. And then, you know, after they'd been there for about three hours, Alan shows up.

Oh, gosh. Uh-huh. And what's he say? Not a whole lot. Oh, my gosh. What would you say? So you're coming in. You have no reason to be there.

It's a Monday. You're supposed to be off at college. You're at your childhood home. There's police tape surrounding it. Let's just say you're totally innocent. What do you do? I have no idea. What do you think you do?

Okay, if I pulled up to my parents' house And there was police tape You would freak the fuck out I would freak out And what I honestly think I would do I would duck under the police tape and run in Yeah, absolutely Okay, so As I learned from American Greed today

That's kind of the normal thing Yeah If you're part of the normal thing. Yeah. If you're part of the family, you duck under the police tape and you go to the bus. And you're like, this is my house. Yes. This is my family. I want to know what happened. Yes.

Not what Alan did. Alan stood politely outside the tape. Oh. Okay. Because Alan already knew what it looked like inside there. No, maybe Alan was busy posting to Instagram, okay? Nope. Hmm.

So, police immediately are like, oh boy. Because Alan wasn't crying. He wasn't asking why they were there. What happened? Wasn't asking anything. Because Alan already knew. Yeah, well, okay. So they're like, why don't you come on back to the station?

We've got bad news. We'd like to deliver it to you on videotape. Yes! In an interrogation room. This time he was not in the room with the dog, but... Oh, damn. Yeah. Sorry. So the investigator

walks in, asks Alan to put his phone away sits down and here's how the conversation goes and you know dude's got the accent are you gonna do it of course yes it's been a long time since you've done a voice on here oh there's three people there in that house that are deceased. Your mom, your sister. And then at this point, Alan goes, oh. So he's wearing a baseball hat. So that's already kind of down on his head. So he's like, oh, kind of a delayed reaction.

We get through the mom, now we're to the sister. He puts his fist to his eyes and he looks down. So you're really only seeing the top of his head. And he goes, no. And the officer goes, and your dad. And Alan No!

Like these massive sniffs. Like cocaine sniffs. Like way over the top. So he's all sniffy McSniffs, but the officer keeps pressing. He talks about the gun that was stolen from his dad's truck, and he asks, Would you want anyone to do this to your family?

Alan says no. Are you a cold-blooded killer? No. Meanwhile, police are searching his Jeep. They're in his dorm room. They find all kinds of shit they find stolen checks obviously obviously they find a bathrobe from the ritz carlton which you are not allowed to take out of stealing yeah but no gun so they're like well that kind of sucks we were hoping to just have this all wrapped up by dinner time. So police don't really have a ton on him, other than just, like, this looks suspicious as hell.

Yeah. So they did the only thing they could think to do. Alan had been on probation for that credit card fraud. He was not supposed to cross state lines. And yet, he had been in Texas that weekend. Yes. So they're like, okay okay we're keeping you overnight yeah now we got a new videotape he's in an orange jumpsuit this time not designer not fitted

not his color tragic yes i'm sure he was very upset about it and he agrees to take a polygraph test. Which, people, okay. Our people. Rough move, Alan. Yeah. First of all, this kid's got a fucking trust fund. I mean, I would think, it's just my own prejudice. I assume all trust fund kids have, like, learned that you ask for the lawyer. Yeah.

I don't understand this at all. No, I don't either. But anyway, so he's like, sure, polygraph. Yeah. Polygraph it up. So the officer, you know, like, they administer the test. And the officer comes back and he's, you know, he's got his disappointed face on. He's like, you failed the test.

Which, again, people don't watch enough true crime stuff. Because otherwise they would know polygraph's not admissible. Polygraphs are bullshit. They've been widely disproven so he's being a big old dum-dum about this polygraph test and they tell him you failed you failed yeah and the officer does the classic oh this is you know this is a big deal you failed this thing i'm gonna give you one opportunity tell us what really happened inside that house that's right that is right damn it and where's the gun yeah so it's all like look look buddy you got one opportunity to make this right you tell me the version right here right now and i'll do my best to help you out that's exactly

we could be police officers they'd be like are they trying to trick us into thinking they're southern old men? This ain't about me, son. So, they do some editing in American Greed. I don't know what the exact timeline is, but eventually Alan starts

talking. Here's what he says. Are you ready yes for the truth yeah this is not the truth oh brandy i'm ready for his bullshit yes you've got one opportunity to listen to me it was a loan shark. A loan shark did this whole thing, Brandy. No. Yes, yes, yes. Alan owed him money.

Loan shark gets angry. No. Classic tale. Loan shark kills the whole family and, you know, revenge. Not Alan? Chef's kiss.

No. What better way to teach Alan a lesson? Than to kill his whole family. Yes. That's the most ridiculous story. Okay, well, that's what the officer said. So here's the exact quote from the officer. There ain't a loan shark in this world that will come after your family and not take money when he does it.

Yeah. So it's like, no, that's not a loan shark's deal. They're not out to, like, murder people for the fun of it. Right. They want money. Money, yeah. Finally, Alan says, I did it. Huh.

Huh. He spills the whole story. It's horrible. He spills the whole story. It's horrible. He killed his mom first while his sister was outside washing her car. Oh, my gosh. When his sister came inside the house, he shot her, too.

Then he sat in the house with his dead mother and sister for an hour, waiting for his dad to come home from work. Oh, my gosh. His dad walks in. Alan shot him, too. Oh. He confessed that he was the one who stole his father's gun and that when he came home to steal the gun, he also stole his mom's credit card. Mm-hmm. That's how he could afford to stay at the Ritz-Carlton.

Obviously. Obviously. He admitted that the Instagram post that he made on Thursday night about being at college and looking out his dorm room window. Fake. Yeah. What? If only I would have called that.

Wow, Brady, you're a genius. Wow, Freddie, you're a genius. In other words, he murdered his entire family using his dad's gun. And after doing all that, he drove to the Ritz-Carlton to party with his friends all weekend. And this, to me, is like, I mean, it's hard to pick the weirdest part. But his friends were like, yeah, everything was fun. It was normal. What the fuck?

Oh, my gosh. So his friends didn't know. No, his friends truly had no idea. Holy shit. Right? Huh. Eventually, police found out where Alan stashed the gun. Where was it?

Do you have a guess? No. Okay. So they found the gun and they found the missing surveillance footage. Because obviously, you know, he was smart enough to take that out. It was in a storage facility, rented out under his grandma's name. Of course it was. Yeah.

Police were not letting Alan go. A judge was like, okay, you know what? You're no longer on probation. You're just in prison now. Yeah. You're here for the credit card stuff. You can just sit here until your trial comes along. Yeah. Thank you.

Goodbye. So the prosecution had an easy case. Confession. They had the murder weapon. They had the motive. The prosecutor was certain this was all about money he thought i'm gonna wipe out my entire family and all of the money yeah will come will come to me and you know it was a substantial sum yeah the prosecution wanted the death penalty wow Interestingly, Alan wanted it too. Yeah.

Okay, so I might read you this whole letter. I will withhold my thoughts. Okay. Am I required to withhold my thoughts? No, you go balls to the walls with your thoughts. So this reporter reached out to Alan while he was in prison. And of course, Alan's attorney had been like, hey, don't talk to reporters. And Alan was like, sure, whatever. Okay.

Don't talk to reporters. Yeah. Stupid lawyer. I bet he thinks I shouldn't have confessed to police either. Okay. Okay. So he wrote this letter. And I'm sorry, it's handwritten and he has like very bubble letter handwriting that I'm having trouble.

Oh, God. Thank you for reaching out for a comment. There are a few things I don't want to comment on at this point in time, but I will answer some of it. I 100% welcome the death penalty. What occurred is so horrible, it is deserved. It is unspeakable. This has been by far the hardest

thing I have ever done. The tears have all been real. I lost my entire family at once. You lost your entire family at once? This is the hardest thing I've ever done thank you okay i got to that paragraph and was like okay first of all so like right off alan yeah yeah

what occurred is so horrible it is deserved what occurred what you did get your passive voice the fuck out of here yeah i did it yes yes What I did was so horrible. It is unspeakable. Not what happened. I had no rule in this at all except for I did the whole thing. The dude of events. I lost my entire family at once.

How could that, they not be real? Not taking a shot at you. It's just hard to hear that somehow I'm faking all of this so the reporter must have asked yeah yeah this didn't happen because of shopping my shopping wasn't something i or my parents could not pay they just thought my spending was out of control and it was to answer most of the rest i didn't feel like myself that day. What? I didn't feel like myself that day?

I just had kind of an off day, and so I killed my whole family. Killed my whole family, yeah. You ever have one of those days? You ever have one of those days where you're feeling kind of fat, feeling kind of, I don't know, and then you just kill everybody. Oh my gosh. Yep. This was not something that seemed like a conceivable option. Why?

I'm still trying to work it out. Trying to figure all of this out. You're right, Mitch could be fuming if, I'm assuming Mitch is the attorney. Yeah. Would be fuming if he knew I replied. That will be a fun meeting. He has been harping about me writing to family and friends. Thanks for the option,

Alan. Uh, yeah. So, people are like, oh, he took some responsibility. No, he didn't. Not really. Not really. As the trial got closer,

what? I think it's a strategy. What's the strategy? Welcoming the death penalty. Jury's less likely to give it to you if it's a strategy what's the strategy welcoming the death penalty jury's less likely to give it to you if it's what you're asking for okay interesting as his trial got closer alan's relatives spoke out they didn't want the death penalty they begged the prosecutor not to pursue it this is one of those classic things we always talk about where like a prosecutor wants it. The family doesn't. Doesn't.

Yeah. And I don't see how you can't ignore the wishes of the family. Yeah. How you can ignore the wishes of the family. I ignore all the wishes. That's right. I don't see how you can't not do it. Not, not, not.

So the prosecution starts talking to Alan's defense team, and they're like, look, we are more than happy to go to trial and try to get the death penalty, and P.S., we think we're going to get it. Yeah. But the defense was like, could we not, though? Yeah. Could we strike a plea deal? Yeah.

So they start talking it through and they develop this deal alan would plead guilty he'd get three life sentences no parole but if he agreed to this deal he could never appeal and he wouldn't be able to have any contact with the media or with members of his family. Ooh. Yeah. That's what they wanted. Wow. They just wanted.

They didn't want him dead. They just wanted for him to never be able to contact them. Wow. Also, he can't profit from the murders. No books, no movies, no none of that. Allen took the deal. at his sentencing in march of 2016 he formally pled guilty and detailed his crimes but he didn't apologize yeah i think he sounds like a sociopath yeah i completely agree yeah so it doesn't surprise me at all that he didn't apologize this is the the most cold-blooded I've ever covered.

That can't possibly be true. But this was shocking to me how cold this was. Alan's grandpa and Tinker's dad spoke. He said, my only comment to the boy is, may God have mercy on your soul. Yeah. I know. John's sister is Allison Ruby Whitaker, and she had no interest in attending this sentencing. But she did send in a statement, which the prosecutor read on her behalf.

Here's what some of it said. I have known the killer since he was born and spent many holidays and vacation time as family over the years. The killer was part of our family, but no more. He has destroyed that family by his evil and insidious acts. If there were ever a definition of evil, it would be the killer who took our family. I want him never to hurt another soul or to ever see him again. Wow. That gave me goosebumps. I think there's something so powerful when

someone says the killer instead of Alan. And to say I was there when he was born. So this whole thing made a lot of people angry, especially when he got up there, did his little guilty plea and did not apologize. He said what he did, but did not express remorse. A lot of people thought he should have gotten the death penalty. This plea deal was very upsetting to them.

But District Attorney Jason Hicks said that it all came down to what the family wanted he said i have championed victims rights since i was sworn into office a little over five years ago and i'm not going to allow my opinion and my feelings to stand in the way and put a family through something like that when that is not what they want that's fair yeah i totally well and i'm i'm anti-death penalty so i mean i don't count and put a family through something like that when that is not what they want. That's fair. Yeah, I totally. Well, and I'm anti-death penalty, so I mean, I don't count.

But I agree with him. Yeah, I do too. So I'm tempted to say that's where this story ends. But then I found another article in the Duncan Banner that came out just a few months after this sentencing. And it said that he was going back to court because he needed to pay back like $85,000 that he stole from his grandmother. I couldn't find any follow-up on that, but obviously that's not going to be paid back anytime soon. Yeah.

Or ever. A lot of time at what? 14 cents a day at his prison job. Yeah. And that's the story of a cold-blooded shopaholic. Whew. That was nuts. That was all for you, Brandi. I appreciate it.

Yeah, that was so not a Kristen case. No, it was so... I could not get over, like, I was trying to see the humanity in this guy, and, like, what was wrong with him? Yeah. Oh, so the thing I held back on so he made that post about

like I don't understand how people can eat ramen and so of course I had to click on the replies and he doesn't have a lot of replies but a few of them were like I bet you like ramen pretty good now that you're in prison yeah

huh like i bet you like ramen pretty good now that you're in prison yeah huh yeah okay now i can really start in on my whiskey yeah oh we haven't even mentioned this is an after dark episode yeah we're not that wild today really not well you know why it is because my house is a hellhole right now the the fridge is right next to us i'm afraid the mics are gonna pick up the sound, the fridge is right next to us. I'm afraid the mics are going to pick up the sound of the fridge running. I am very afraid of that, too. So let's recap. Yeah. How many toilets are in this house, Brady?

Zero. Zero toilets. Zero toilets currently. Fridge in the dining room right next to where we're recording. Yep. Tables everywhere. Paint buckets. Yeah.

Last week when we recorded, when we weren't done, you finished your Diet Coke and you said, so should I just drop this onto the floor or what? Because my house looked like a trash heap. It's just funny to me because, like, this is so not you. You hate this. I do hate this. Kristen, this is what has to happen for this house to get ready for sale. Would you like to hear why I felt like a monster the other day?

So the other day we had guys working on some drywall in the kitchen. And at one point, one of them asked Norm if he could use our restroom. And you had to be like, sorry, no, there's no toilet in there. And okay, so Norman was like, sorry, I'm sorry you can't. And the guy was like, oh, okay. And Norman was like, just to be clear, like, we literally don't have a bathroom right now. And he was like, oh, okay. Because I remember one time, like, a couple years ago, we had electricians at the house.

And one of them asked if they could have some water. Yeah. Like put some water in their water bottle. Yeah. And Norman was like, yeah, you don't have to ask. Right, yeah. Just go right ahead. Just get some water.

And the guy was like, you know, actually, I do have to ask because I got in trouble a while ago because I filled up my water bottle at a customer's house and they got angry. Can you imagine? So then my fear was like, okay, we'll have somebody here. We won't let them use the bathroom and they'll think it's like some weird thing. No, we literally don't have a toilet.

Huh. It's a beautiful life. It's coming along great. Thank you. I feel like you're just saying that. I'm not. Like, the frickin' Yeah, things are coming along.

Things are coming along. See, this is, you're in like the, you're in the weeds right now. Nothing is finished. There's 80 projects going on. And then all of a sudden it's just gonna come together. That was the noise of it. I can't wait for it to come together. Soon.

Okay. Okay. Are you ready? Yes, I'm so excited. First of all, shout out to Caitlin, who recommended this in our Discord. We already mentioned that earlier, but like literally just a couple days ago, and I was like, have to do this case. Okay. I actually tagged you.

Did you ask her how to pronounce Caitlin? I did not. It's probably not pronounced Caitlin at all. It's pronounced Alan. I did not. I actually tagged you and called dibs on this case when she. And you know what? I saw that and then I didn't want to look at it yeah

excellent out of my mind at 3300 London Road hold Duluth Minnesota hold the fucking phone okay 3300 Duluth Road

London Road okay Duluth Minnesota oh that pops right up, doesn't it? Sure does. Something really bad must have happened here. You'll find the Glensheen Mansion. Oh.

Built in 1905 by Chester Adgate Congdon, who made his millions in mining in addition to being a lawyer. I'm sorry. When you Google Maps this, there's like these big banners that say, tour a mansion. Oh. So just do it. Like, search the address and then just do an image search. Okay. Senior discount.

Senior discount. Y'all ever seen a mansion before? Oh, wow. It's beautiful. It's insane. I love a big brick house. It's beautiful. It's insane. I love a big brick house. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous.

So it was built in 1905. Actually, like between 1905 and 1908, it took three years to complete. So by Chester Adgate Congdon, he made his millions in mining, and then he was also a lawyer. I would love to take a tour of this. Oh, me too. I've seen pictures of the inside. It is gorgeous. So the 39 room, 20,000 square foot mansion took three years to complete and boasted state

of the art technology, including a toilet, hot water, electricity, and irrigated grounds. So it had some like primitive sprinkler system damn it cost a staggering 854 000 which adjusted for inflation is almost 25 million dollars whoa yeah shit ton of money slightly outside our outside our budget. Yes, just slightly. But we'll pool them and we add in the Patreon money and boom, we're there. Easy. So the home is now owned by the University of Minnesota Duluth, which operates it as a museum. Yes. Giving guided tours daily.

Tour goers can see the more than 100 year old opulence as many of the original furnishings and finishes on the mansion are still in place. So much of the furniture that they moved into the home in 1908 is still in the home and exactly where it was. That is incredible. And then there's all these amazing gold-leafed wallpapers and stuff like that that are still all intact. How many Labrador borders do they have? I don't know. Damn it. I want to go here so bad.

I do too. But what they won't talk about on those tours. Oh, come on. Though someone always asks, are the murders? Or, according to some, me, the murder mystery. Ooh. Ooh. So you think they didn't catch the right person?

I don't know. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. Old timey. I guess we'll find out. Oh, my God. Continue. It's not as old timey as you think.

Oh, damn it. Our mystery begins just before 7 a.m on june 27th 1977 oh when nurse mildred garview arrived at the glensheen mansion to start her day shift caring for elderly heiress elizabeth congdon umdon. So Elizabeth is like the last surviving child at that time. My grandchild.

She would be way too I feel like she would be way too old to or he would be way too old for that to be his daughter. Well some dudes they just keep on... Side note, Chester's birth date, June 12th, 1853. Oh, my God.

What is with June 12th? I know, right? You, Norman Chester, and half the population of the world. So Elizabeth Congdon was his daughter. Wow. She was born in 1894. Okay, so it's 1977. She's in her 80s.

And she needs round-the-clock care. She had suffered a stroke, I believe it was. And so this nurse, Mildred Garview, shows up to the house and is surprised to find the front door unlocked. Very out of character. So she went in and then like across the foyer, up on like the landing of the staircase, she saw Velma Pitella, Pitella? P-I-E-T-I-L-A.

Pietila? I'm sorry. Velma. Who had been Elizabeth's night nurse. I thought her name was Mildred. Mildred is the morning nurse. Oh, I'm sorry. Elizabeth is the patient. God, there are some old lady names in this.

And I cannot keep them straight. So Velma is 67 years old. And she had actually retired a month earlier, but the new night nurse was out. And so she was subbing in because she had done it for a really long time or whatever. Yeah. So she's kind of like draped on like a, uh, I'm thinking, I think it's like a window bench, like up on this landing.

And so what do you mean draped? Like laying on it okay and so initially velma thinks that i'm sorry mildred there are too many old lady names so initially mildred are we gonna get a florence in here the day nurse thinks that velma the night nurse has fallen asleep on this bench right okay And so she walks up there to wake her and as she gets closer, there is blood everywhere.

It is very clear that fuck, there's too many names! It's very clear that Velma is dead yeah um it turns out that velma had been beat with a very heavy brass candlestick oh no um what are

they in fucking clue right that's crazy so alarmed obviously by this, the nurse runs through the house and goes to Elizabeth's bedroom. She's on the second floor. And there she found Elizabeth in bed with a satin pillow over her face. Elizabeth was 83 years old and had been smothered to death. Oh, my God. Yes. There were no witnesses. There had been a maid and a cook at the home,

presumably at the time of the murder, but they lived in the servants' quarters, so they weren't anywhere near where the murder took place. And this is such a massive house that two people could be murdered in it and you would not know. Exactly. That's incredible so this nurse calls the police obviously and they show up to the scene and pretty quickly they zero in on a suspect elizabeth's daughter adopted daughter marjoriedwell, who was 44 years old. Three years prior to this, Elizabeth had suddenly become very ill and had required hospitalization after eating a marmalade sandwich. Ew, what the fuck is that?

That Marjorie had made. It's just like fancy jam. But a sandwich out of it? You don't, you just toast that, right? You do the little toast and you put the... All right, so you put two pieces of toast together with the marmalade and you you do the little toast and you put the all right so you put two pieces of toast together with the marmalade and you got a sandwich okay am i the only one who thinks that's weird no i'd fucking eat that okay but i feel very strongly that the

bread should be separated can only eat it open faced i know i know that sounds weird that is weird why does it matter i'm sorry it's like the shredded cheese on nachos i can't handle it and i just feel like you have the two pieces of toast separately yeah jelly okay never marmaladed shall meet marmaladed so okay fine she ate two open face pieces of toast with marmalade on them anyway um she became very ill was rushed to the hospital and had like an enormous amount of tranquilizers in her system that there was no explanation for. And suddenly the remains of the sandwich and the rest of the marmalade were nowhere to be found. Weird. Yeah.

So they were everybody was pretty sure at that time that Marjorie had attempted to murder her mother. Of course. But there was no way to prove it. And so very quickly, police are like, well, Marjorie's in on this somehow. She's somehow involved. Yeah. And so it must be her husband, Roger, who's he's like 43. So the Caldwells had only been married like a year at this point, Marjorie and Roger.

And they were deep in debt they were living well beyond their means because they imagined any day that elizabeth would die and they would marjorie would get her inheritance so they're just spending yeah preparation yeah because marjorie stood to inherit about 8.2 million dollars upon elizabeth's death they're like they were so far in debt that their home their furniture their vehicles had all been repossessed and they were living like in a motel in golden colorado wow yeah really bad something like a month before el's death, Roger had actually, so Roger is Marjorie's husband. He had traveled to Duluth to meet with the trustees that oversaw the $8.2 million estate to ask them for $750,000 so that they could buy a horse ranch. And the trustees turned them down.

Yeah. Because they had already pilfered a bunch of money. Like over the past 10 years, Marjorie had gone through like $2 million. Oh, come on. Yeah. And so Roger was like, oh, I'll go pitch it to them. And he even brought like this crazy letter from a doctor saying that um they needed to live on a ranch that it was um imperative for the health of marjorie's youngest son uh-huh yeah okay yeah so the trustees turned them down and said no

and then he contacted them again 10 days before el's death, asking this time for $250,000 to hire attorney F. Lee Bailey. Oh, yes. For some criminal charges that were stemming from some credit card fraud and all kinds of stuff. Marjorie had a long history of like bad checks and credit card fraud and all kinds of stuff. And I think like at a pretty young age, she had actually been like officially diagnosed as a sociopath. I don't know much about like her biological background. Right. But man, Alan and Marjorie.

Pretty similar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Marjorie had been sued several times. Roger also had been bouncing checks and fraudulently using credit cards. They were in all kinds of fucking trouble. And then all of a sudden, Elizabeth is dead. How convenient. Whodunit.

I think I have a guess. You do? Yeah, I do. Marjorie and her dipshit husband. Oh. Let's see. Shall we? I don't think we even have to.

And I don't see why you're saying this is a mystery. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. So back at the scene, investigators are kind of looking into it. And it seemed that an intruder had broken a basement window, and that's how they had gained entry into the home the night of the killings. They had gone up the main staircase and had encountered the night nurse somewhere between 11 p.m. and 7 a.m. There was like pantyhose wrapped around one of her wrists. pantyhose wrapped around one of her wrists and so it looked like maybe the whoever had done this the intruder had attempted to tie her up that it had never been the plan to kill her and that she

had fought back because they the candlestick that she was murdered with was like nearby there yes and so she had fought back and then was beat to death. Like, they kind of, like, I think it was, like, 23 hits with this candlestick to this poor woman. And then this, whoever this, the mystery murderer had then cleaned up in the nurse's room, which was across the hall from Elizabeth's room. So there was blood everywhere in there. It was very clear that's where they'd gone to kind of clean up the mess. And then what do you mean clean up the mess like the mess on themselves? Yeah. Because then that's when they made entry into Elizabeth's room. So Elizabeth was smothered to death, smothered to death with that satin pillow and then a few items were taken

from her room there was like a small wicker suitcase that was missing and then jewelry including jewelry that she always wore there was this i think it was like a diamond and sapphire ring that she always wore you know how you know. I'm the same way with my jewels. That's like old women with their jewels. Yeah. So she always wore this like diamond encrusted ring. Yes. And it was missing from her finger as well as some other watch and some other jewelry from her room. The intruder then left through the front door, leaving it unlocked and and then drove to the Minneapolis-St. Paul

International Airport. How do we know that? Because the nurse's car was left at the airport. Oh. Yes. As I mentioned, there was a maid and a cook at the house in the servants' quarters. Right. And they said that they hadn't heard anything, but cook had a dog and her dog began barking about 2 50 a.m and remained agitated for a couple of hours oh my god that's oh that's so upsetting and the nurse who had been murdered her wristwatch stopped at exactly 2 40 a.m so they believe that was possibly the time of the murder. Oh, my God. Yeah.

So, as I mentioned, they put this together that he had let the intruder, he, I say he, we don't really know at this point. Maybe it's Roger. Maybe it's somebody else. Maybe it's Marjorie. We don't know. Of coursejorie. We don't know. Of course it is. We don't know, Kristen. We kind of do, though.

We do not. Okay. So as I mentioned, the intruder had exited through the front door, left the front door unlocked, gotten in the nurse's car, and driven to the airport. They left the car at the airport. the nurse's car and driven to the airport. They left the car at the airport and sometime in the early morning hours of the next day, car keys to the nurse's car were found dumped in a trash can at the airport, along with a parking lot ticket stamped at 635 a.m. Okay. That's helpful. Yeah.

And then the police were able. So the keys and the ticket were found first and then they were able to locate the car in like a short term parking lot. So that all takes place. Meanwhile. Marjorie is back in Golden, Colorado. She's seen coming and going several times from the motel room that they're living in. Lots of people see her. She was looking at real estate and doing all kinds of just her normal activities. Seems like she's being seen a whole lot.

Uh-huh. You know who wasn't being seen? Her husband. Mm-hmm. And people asked about it because they were always seen together. And she always had some different excuse for why he wasn't there. Mm-hmm. He was off doing this.

He was in their motel room. He was in town. Don't you worry. He was there, according to her. But no one saw him. You know how you know for sure this crime was committed by a man how the murderer tried to bind that woman with pantyhose and i feel like women know that stuff's too stretchy i don't think men know how stretchy those suckers are boom case closed case

closed it's roger all right. I guess you can stop now. So the day after the murders, Roger is back in Colorado suddenly. He's been there the whole time. Right. Don't you worry. He's been in the motel room. Now he's out in public. Only he is very agitated. Very disheveled. B bunch of cuts on his face and a big old swollen hand

well okay first of all on the day of the murder like marjorie is told about the murder and she goes about continuing to look at real estate like she's uh-huh not upset about it at all well now she can afford the real estate. So day after the murders, Roger is seen in Colorado, though he's been there the whole time. Disheveled, very agitated looking, cuts on his face, very swollen hand. And he's at a bank in Golden. Like that's one of the first places he's seen opening a safety deposit box. Yeah, for the ring.

The ring? What ring? Shed it. So the police, like, have started tracking their activity at this point. Yeah, for sure. So they get a search warrant and they go check out that safety deposit box. And they find in it a notarized letter that was signed by his wife, Marjorie. She signed it three days before the murders.

And it gave Roger Caldwell a $2.5 million cut of her inheritance upon the death of her mother. Yeah. So this is like a huge red flag like light like flashing lights go off prosecutor said um that this was the closest thing to a murder contract that they had ever seen well yeah yeah so this like and it like spelled out like no matter what happens with our marriage, anything, this $2.5 million, it is yours to keep. Yeah. Bullshit.

Why the hell would you say, no matter what happens to our marriage, you get $2.5 million? I don't know exactly what it said, but it said it laid it out irrevocably. Yeah. Yeah. If we divorce, if something happens, you still get $2.5 million? Yeah. No. Yeah.

No one makes that deal. Right. Unless he's done you the massive favor of murdering your mother yeah yes and giving you an eight million dollar inheritance yeah this is ridiculous it's a mystery kristin it's really not um i do have to say that the majority of this information came from this really great article that I may have just accidentally closed. No, I did not. In the Duluth News Tribune by Candace Reynolds. Reynolds. Reynolds. I don't know. Thanks, Candy. Yes. Should we talk about how we just ate a

Butterfinger? It's delicious. It was delicious. We shared a butterfinger it's delicious it was delicious we shared one butterfinger so that norm could have a candy bar there so kristen was like hey we've got candy bars would you like one and i was like yeah i'll have a candy bar and then she pulled out the box and there's only two candy bars left and she's like one for each of us and i was like no because then norm doesn't get one and so i was like you have a candy bar and then you save one for Norm. And Kristen split hers in half and gave it to me. I really feel like Brandy should have just eaten a candy bar. Damn it. And you know, Norm would have lived, but you're too nice. Well, I told you it comes from me feeling bad the other day because the other day when we recorded we took a break to walk to Starbucks to use their toilet because you as you mentioned there's no toilet in this house and then we each got a drink and we got nothing for Norm and I felt really bad

about that you're such a sweet person because we got back and we're like slurping on our on our starbucks and he was like and i was like oh no i'm sorry i didn't even think to ask you if you wanted anything probably should have been your wife who would have thought of that too oh wow you know what he was talking to the drywall guy no that was rude. It was. And so anyway, so police uncover this contract in this safety deposit box. And they're like, ding, ding, ding. Clearly, Roger's the one who committed this murder and he did it. He was contracted by Marjorie to do it. Case closed. it he was contracted by marjorie to do it case closed i am so alarmed by how this case should

clearly be done here uh-huh and you we've clearly got a ways to go this is nuts so after that discovery um marjorie and roger go back to duluth to attend the funeral uh-huh fake and they stay at a radisson hotel downtown and after they check out of course the police go in and they search it and in the room they find a receipt for a purchase of 54.86 from a Twin Cities Airport gift shop on, what day do you think, Kristen? The day of the murders! Dun, dun, dun! Whoa! Yeah.

They leave evidence behind in this room! They're just idiots. That is unreal. Yes. Okay, continue. Okay. yes okay continue okay so then police go and they talk to the gift shop clerk and um what why would you stop at a gift shop i don't know doesn't make any sense no so they go and they talk to the gift shop clerk and show him the receipt and And he remembers that, like, he looks at the receipt.

And it's, like, dated. It's, like, at 640 a.m. on the date of the murders and whatever. And he describes the man who made the purchase of a garment bag. The person purchased a garment bag. And the person matches Roger Caldwell's description to a T. Yep. So police are like, this is all coming together great. Wonderful. Excellent.

Perfect. So meanwhile, Marjorie and Roger are mourning the loss of Elizabeth. And they're in Duluth for the funeral. And then they travel to the Twin Cities, which I don't know how far apart they are, but not very far, I don't think. And they stay at a hotel there. And suddenly, Roger Caldwell collapses. And he was taken to the hospital.

What? Wouldn't you know it? No. There's an enormous amount of tranquilizers in his system when he gets to the hospital. Oh. Yes. Oh. Yes.

And they're the same ones that were found in Elizabeth's system three years earlier. You can't trust people yeah yep so they're able to you know pump his stomach and whatever and he's fine but while he's in the hospital recovering and i'm assuming marjorie's by his side police searched the hotel room that they'd been staying at in bloomington yes and do you know what they found? Tranquilizers. They found a small wicker suitcase. Ah! And 25 pieces of jewelry taken from Elizabeth's room,

including the watch and the diamond and sapphire ring. I have a question. Yes. Was Marjorie the only heir to this fortune? I believe so, yes. So why even take the jewelry?

No idea. Because you're going to get it anyway. You're going to get it, yeah. That's just... Okay. So, police are like, how do you explain this, Marjorie? Mm-hmm. And she had an explanation, Kristen. A perfectly reasonable explanation.

I would love to hear it. This jewelry wasn't stolen. These were just copies of her mother's jewelry. Because she admired her mother's jewelry so much, she had copies of them made. Yeah, and they're all missing? No. It's just a coincidence that she happened to have copies of the same jewelry that

had been stolen from her murdered mother's bedroom in the wicker suitcase that was also stolen from her murdered mother's bedroom. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. No. I'm afraid it is. Meanwhile, back in Colorado, a piece of mail arrives at the motel room where Marjorie and Roger had been living. I'm picturing a Schitt's Creek scenario.

Are you? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Wouldn't you know that that letter was postmarked from Duluth on the day of the murder? No. Yep. And inside was a 1700 year old Byzantine coin that had been housed in a memorabilia case in Elizabeth Congdon's bedroom.

These people are dumb as fuck. Are they? Yes, they are, Brandy. Handwriting experts took a look at this envelope. And they concluded that it was Roger Caldwell's handwriting. Well, no kidding. On that envelope. Uh-huh.

And, now this is going to shock you. Okay, I'm prepared. Roger had a coin collection. The mystery continues. That was the sound of me falling out of my chair. Hair and blood that were found at the scene were... Rogers? Well, at this time, remember it's the 70s.

Oh, right. They look at hair and blood type samples and they're deemed similar to Roger Caldwell's, which is as good as it got in those days. The thing that police did not have were fingerprints, which was like the best form of evidence at that time. Right. There were, Roger Caldwell didn't leave a single fingerprint in the house. Well, that's like the only smart thing. This.

Yeah. So police just concluded that he had had gloves on. Sure. While he committed the crime. Of course. So they put all of this together. It wasn't that much work. I mean, he left a terrible trail.

Yeah. And nine days after Elizabeth's murder, Roger Caldwell was arrested and charged with two counts of. So one article I saw said attempted first degree murder. No, he for sure did it. So I don't know why it said attempted. I think he was charged with two counts of first degree murder. Yeah. Yeah. yeah um and his trial took place in 1978 and it was moved to brainerd does that sound familiar at all no that's where fargo takes place oh i thought we had some precious memory there. I was like, sorry. No. So Marjorie in Fargo is from Brainerd. Okay. Home of the Blue Axe. Is her name Marjorie or is it just Margie?

Hey, Margie. Margie. It's just Margie. Well, I'm sure it's Marjorie. Probably. Or Margaret. Could be. Oh, yeah. sure it's Marjorie. But probably or Margaret could be. Oh, yeah.

You think? So because of pretrial publicity, because this is a huge deal. Yeah. This heiress was murdered and probably by her own daughter and her husband. And so it was moved to Brainerd. Of course, the Caldwell of Roger Caldwell had some pretty high power defense because I think they at this time maybe had had some kind of access to the trust money. I don't really know. Somehow they paid for some pretty good defense attorneys for Roger and they had a pretty good defense. Well, I can't imagine. Pretty good defense well i can't imagine pretty good defense strategy

i will say they pointed out all the mistakes that were made with the police procedures the crime scene was contaminated and clearly the caldwells were being framed. No. No. Absolutely not. Who would. Who would frame them for this. I don't know. It's a mystery. Kristen. It's not.

Here were the mistakes of the police made. OK. Too many people. Were allowed access to the crime scene. Especially on that very first day. Evidence was trampled. Cigarette butts were put out in the toilet, in the nurse's bathroom where the killer had cleaned up. So there was evidence in that bathroom.

There was like where they'd washed away blood. There was blood spattered in there. And cigarette butts were thrown in the toilet in there by multiple police officers. Yeah, that's not great. It's not great. A palm print that was found on the sink that was like, this is great evidence. We're going to nail them.

This is going to be Roger's palm print. It belonged to one of the police officers? It was the lead police investigator's palm print. No, no. Yeah, yeah. ball print. It belonged to one of the police officers? It was the lead police investigator's ball print. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. They had brought a dog in to, what?

Why are your eyeballs all big? Okay, no, it's okay. It's a rejection from an agent, but that's okay. Why are you checking your email, Kristen? Because I saw another one came in, and this week it's just been too crazy. Yes. You're shitting your pants every five minutes.

Yes. Yes. Gang, this book might get published. It might happen. It's going to happen. I'm so excited for you. Thank you. Thank you. And really proud to be your you. Thank you. Thank you.

And really proud to be your friend. Thank you. This has been a crazy week. Yeah. I don't know how much is smart to say. Probably it's smarter to not say anything. Yeah. I think that's... Yeah.

But... Holy crap. Yeah. Things are happening. I've had like one goal my whole life. Yeah. And for the longest time, I didn't write a book because I was afraid of, like, what happens if you try to get your one goal and you fail at it. And you fail at it, yeah.

And so I did it. And it might actually, oh, God. Can't even say it. Can't even say it. Okay, back to the murder it. Oh, can't even say it. Oh. OK, back to the murder mystery. Yeah. A dog was allowed into the crime scene to check for scent evidence. Oh, OK.

OK. They tracked the scene, but they were allowed to, like, jump through that window that they said the intruder had broken and, like, had trampled evidence there. and like had trampled evidence there. The mistakes that were made at this crime scene actually led to some changes in Duluth police procedures following this. I would hope so. There are rules about how many people

are allowed in a crime scene and detectives have to wear gloves when they survey a crime scene all because of this. I'm sorry. No shit. Wear gloves. Yeah.

Hey, don't just drop your cigarette butts all willy nilly. Willy nilly. Put your hands everywhere like you just don't care. But. Hey, oh. Sorry. But the prosecution's case was strong. And all that evidence yeah of course that and they had they had they had finally nailed down a fingerprint it was on that letter that had been

postmarked from Duluth the day of the murders that had the coin in it that had been taken from the case in Elizabeth's room. They had isolated a fingerprint on it, and it was Roger Caldwell's. Okay. There we go. Yeah. So the jury... Found him guilty as hell.

Found him guilty. Yes. And he was sentenced to two life terms. Okay. two life terms. Okay. Following his conviction, Marjorie was also charged with murder conspiracy or conspiracy to commit murder and aiding and abetting a murder. Yeah.

Her trial was held in 1979, and it was also moved because of pretrial publicity to Hastings, Minnesota. And the evidence the prosecution presented was the same. But things didn't go that well at Marjorie's trial. First of all, the jurors loved her. What? Yes. Why? I don't really know. Somehow they connected with her. She sat there knitting during her whole trial. Like, wow. Yes. And a key piece of evidence that was used to convict Roger was discredited at Marjorie's trial. That letter?

That letter. that fingerprint that placed roger in duluth on the day of the murders a fingerprint expert said it's not his it's not a match no yeah and so oh God. So this whole thing. Marjorie was acquitted. Oh, my God. But it's OK. We've already solved the mystery. It was Roger in the hall with the candlestick. He's going to get a retrial.

Following Marjorie's acquittal, which I told you she connected with the jury. They all went out like for drinks after her acquittal. Marjorie and the jury. You are kidding me. Isn't that nuts? That is the weirdest thing. It's so weird. Yes.

So following Marjorie's acquittal, Roger Caldwell obviously appealed his conviction. Yeah. And that appeal went all the way to the minnesota oh yeah and in 1982 they threw out his conviction yeah yeah i mean they should if that wasn't his fingerprint so they threw out his conviction and the prosecution was like So they threw out his conviction and the prosecution was like, nope.

Yeah, we 100% know that he did this. Of course. We will try him again. Maybe. Well, I don't know. This might be tough without the fingerprint evidence and they already acquitted Marjorie. Maybe we won't be able to get a conviction. And so in 1983, they approached Roger with a plea deal. If he would give them a full confession.

Yeah. They would give him time served. Wow. He had been in prison for five years at that point. Oh, God. Mm-hmm. And so he took the deal. Oh, my God.

Yeah. He said that he alone had killed Elizabeth and that that hadn't been his intention that night. He had gone to the mansion purely to steal some things, to sell, to pay off their debts. And that the nurse had fought him and he had no choice to murder her. And then once he'd killed the nurse nurse he felt he had to kill elizabeth and that marjorie was in no way involved bullshit people were pissed about this deal five years and you murdered two people? Five years. People were pissed about this deal.

And even the prosecutor who offered the deal came to regret it later. He said it was the biggest mistake of his career. Of course it was. He said he should have walked away and tried the case again. Absolutely. walked away and tried the case again absolutely he said to the that looking back he believes that roger didn't do this do this alone that there was likely someone else in the house with him that night some third accomplice oh come on and that the purpose was of course to murder elizabeth for the inheritance and that there wasn't the intention to kill the nurse, Velma, but that she fought and they had to.

Well, they didn't have to. Well, they believed they had to. Yeah. So, Roger Caldwell was released from prison after serving five years and confessing to the murders. That is so infuriating. But that's not the end. Five years later, in 1988, Roger Caldwell committed suicide. And he left three

suicide notes. Oh my God. And one of them said This is the best case ever. It's so good. One of them said I didn't kill those girls. What you need to know

is that I didn't kill those girls or to my knowledge ever harm a soul in my life. Those girls. I know. I think that's a super weird thing to say. They were both elderly. Yeah. So Roger Caldwell was 54 years old at the time of his death. Marjorie went on to remarry.

Actually, she and she and Roger separated shortly after his conviction. She went on and actually married somebody else while she was still married to Roger. Wow. She had lots more problems with fraud. She never got any of the inheritance. I believe she's still alive. Wow. Yeah. Technically, a lot of people think that that case is still unsolved. It's not.

Oh, I completely agree. I think 100% Marjorie paid Roger to do it. Yeah. Yeah. Roger never got any of that money. And I think Roger killed himself because he couldn't handle the guilt of what he had done. Yeah. And he didn't reap any of the rewards.

Any of the reward. Yeah. I mean, imagine. Yeah. yeah and he didn't reap any of the rewards yeah i mean imagine yeah you don't get the rewards you think you're gonna get and your shitty wife tries to murder you and then gets away with everything and now she's with some new guy oh that was nuts yeah so if you go take this tour like the official position is that if somebody asks about the murder during the tour, the tour guide will not talk about it out of respect for the family. But there's a Q&A session at the end of the tours and they will answer questions during that and they sell a book about it in the gift shop.

Boy, they really dance around that. They sure do. Anyway, I want to go here and tour it. And I want to read the book. You and I need to do a Sarah Vowell-style assassination vacation. Yes! Did you ever read that book? No, uh-uh.

She goes around to all the places where presidents were assassinated. Oh, yeah. And, you know, it's just kind of morbid and creepy but she's hilarious. Yeah. I think we need to do that. We do. 100%. Love it. Love it. And thank you to Caitlyn for recommending that case. Pronounced Allen.

Caitlyn pronounced Allen. Thank you for recommending that case. Oh my god. That was crazy. Can you believe five years? He got up with five years and marjorie was acquitted uh that's so upsetting that's not justice no that is ridiculous yeah oh so something that i think is really interesting is that the house had actually been left to um had been given to the University of Minnesota Duluth

years before, but like Elizabeth was like in, as part of the deal, she got to live in the house until her death. Sure. And then they would open it up for tours or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense to me. It's amazing that the same furniture

and everything is still there. I think that's nuts. Ugh. We gotta go. I know i want to see where it happened minnesota's not that far it's not that far we've talked about going camping i know what if we say fuck camping and go to minnesota yeah let's do it okay why are we whispering i don't know oh so cool so good such a good case i had never heard of it i'd never heard of glensheen mansion and now i have to go there yeah absolutely what you got going on over there brandy um i feel like there was oh no what's wrong i was gonna talk about the tattoo thing but i already talked

about it that's my only show note you ruined that didn't you i did blew my wad too early as some might say god please never again no okay that sounds like a disgusting phrase right it does but my mom says it when she's like talking about like shopping and stuff like she doesn't want to buy the first thing she doesn't want to blow her wad right away and i'm like mom that's disgusting she means she said she means her wad of cash you know i understand i understand what she means but it sounds disgusting well it's kind of like dp for dp yeah we know he means yeah dr pepper and my mom just means her wad of cash but it sounds like she doesn't want to splooge

all over that outfit and we appreciate that very much oh lord what kind of show notes do you have little missy wow you know what I've had kind of a busy week

this week. What with dreams may be coming true. Dreams hanging in the balance. Real talk, you and I have had so much shit going on. Like, that's why we're recording it. On a Tuesday at like 10 o'clock at night. Yeah. So, oh, let's talk about Patreon for a second. Yes.

So we've had a couple people who are like, I wonder when the bonus episode's going to drop. I wonder when they're going to start sending out the stickers and stuff like that. So Patreon won't allow us to fulfill our rewards. Is that what we're calling them? Rewards? Yeah. Until. They won't let us blow our wad. Until like the first subscription fee is paid. So that happens July 1st. And then we'll soon after that, we'll drop the bonus episode and we'll start sending out the stickers and stuff. But in the meantime, we are still letting people like vote for episodes. You can still join the Discord, blah, blah, blah. So there's still stuff to do.

Yes. But we're just letting you know, we're not like, you know, snoozing on you. No. We are just following the rules. We are nothing if not rule followers. We really are. We are so lame. We are such rule followers.

I really thrive in structure. Yes. One of these agents this week asked me how I do with deadlines, and it's like, oh, honey. Yeah. Never have I disappointed anyone no that would be the last thing you would do absolutely not i shouldn't say never have i disappointed anyone but like man okay so we've mentioned that this is an after dark episode our famous after dark episode this is super tame because i worked all fucking day i was so fucking busy um and you have had crazy shit going on may i tell you my day yeah so obsessing over these this agent stuff yeah and then i did a thing i don't like to do which is i did this

whole episode in one day which you know is too, is too tight a time frame for me. It's way too stressful. We've both done it, and it's so stressful. And then I was, like, all, like, jacked up on Mountain Dew. Like, couldn't handle myself. So in 90-degree heat, I went over. You had to go for a run? No, I went to the new house, and I was like, I'm going to pick all the weeds.

Oh, no! I was out there for three hours. Yeah, I bet. And then I was like okay i'm gonna trim all the shrubs turns out you need like jacked muscles you need actual upper body strength yeah you have jacked arms you've got like michelle obama arms oh my god thank you you liar oh my god i'm waiting for my vogue cover but no so they left us the old owners left us this like chainsaw thing. Yeah. So I sat there like, is it Freddy Krueger?

Who's that dude with the chainsaw? It's not Freddy Krueger. It's not Freddy Krueger, is it? Who is it? Who has a chainsaw? Oh, Leatherface? Yeah, thank you. I was out there like Leatherface slash Ed Gein with my apple pie with a slice of cheddar

cheese on top, eating that. Do you know who likes it that way? Who? David. No. I know. pie with a slice of cheddar cheese on top eating that do you know who likes it that way who david no i know i was like oh you might be a psychopath how how does this even happen i know how do you even learn that you like it that way that's like i'm having apple pie would you like a big old thick slice of cheese on it i'd be like fuck no oh hold on let me ruin that for you that is disgusting yes i truly until we did that episode i had never don't worry i adamantly told him he was wrong and that the only thing you should be eating on your apple pie is vanilla ice cream absolutely nice scoop of vanilla ice cream No slab of cheddar cheese

Ugh God Just disgusting Brandy That's what you call a red flag Should I run? You should run You can stay here in the house

With no toilet You don't need that dude, you're not some kind of diva Who needs a toilet, are you? You're not one kind of diva who needs a toilet, are you? You're not one of those weirdos who goes to the bathroom, are you? That was the other reason I went and picked weeds was because I was like, I need access to a toilet. Anyway, folks, we are pushing through and we are getting this shit done. It is so much fun. So you've been dealing with that.

I've been dealing with refinancing my house, which is like the last step in my divorce process. Yes. And fuck, is that stressful. Talk about it. Talk about it. Get it all out. Oh my gosh. So first there's like the stress of like, I've never had a mortgage in my own name.

Like, is that like just by myself is that even something that I can like do and then what happens if I can't like I have I already have the house I need to keep the house I like living in it and so then you have to do the appraisal bullshit and all of that it's just been very stressful but it's wrapping up hopefully the rest of the process goes very smoothly and I should close in a few days how hard did you clean in anticipation of your appraisal um like a fucking meth head yeah so david came and helped me he helped me clean and he's like just so you know this will always be a level of clean like when we're talking about like you know cleaning the house or whatever like on a level of like zero to appraisal how

clean does the house need to be it's true it is true oh my god and then the guy spent like six minutes in my house he didn't even notice the baseboards didn't damn it or that I cleaned out my junk closet like no shit that's a project I felt the need to take on well I mean how often do you have someone in your home literally for the sole purpose of judging oh yeah and that's weird I was like of course he's gonna need to come in here and like this is the closet he's gonna need to measure because they just take like random measurements to verify like county records and i'm like of course this is the fucking closet he's gonna need to be able to measure and he's gonna open it and it's gonna collapse on him he's gonna die and i can't imagine that appraisal coming back very good yeah it's been a lot it has been a lot we had our first movie night and like felt like forever

yeah it was so nice i know it was really nice you busted out like the best pie ever and you made crescent rolls yes oh my god it had been forever since i had crescent rolls and you cooked them like just the right amount thank you oh. It was a delightful evening. Norman made cottage pie. Yes. And you texted him, what is cottage pie? It sounds like fucking shepherd's pie. And he said, it's completely different. It's not.

It's not. It's the same thing. It's pretty much the same thing. It's the same thing. It's very good. It was. It was delicious. We got some inductions to do. We do have some inductions. Yeah. I'm very excited. Me too. We got some inductions to do. We do have some inductions. Yeah. I'm very excited. Me too.

We had our first round last week. Second round. So we've got three rounds where we're doing favorite ice cream flavors. Then we're going to switch it up. Yeah. Something else. Favorite Pokemon, maybe. We're not going to do that.

Squirtle, for the record. Just because it sounds disgusting so david and i do this thing where we talk about like things and i think that we should like just start doing this like we should start like a discussion on this on our discord like things that sound dirty but aren't squirtle 100 one of them absolutely yeah yeah um well you like before we started recording you were talking about how busy you are at your salon oh yeah and i said i'm just shoving people in anywhere i can Again, something that sounds dirty but isn't. We hope. All right. You're probably wondering right now how you could be inducted into the Supreme Court.

It's very difficult. Yeah. Very exclusive club. Yeah. And you can only get in if you have seven dollars to your name if you've got seven dollars a month then you can be part of our supreme court that gets you access to bonus episodes it gets you a let's go to court sticker which we haven't mentioned this but we are packaging those stickers with a card that we're going to sign. It's a

little thank you. So it'll be a fun little bonus thing. A little cool thing. Yeah. And then of course you get inducted into the Supreme Court, which is an actual real thing. It is a real thing. And the cases are real. The judgments are final. Here we go. Dana. Peppermint bonbon. Jenny Black. Chocolate. Clint Wallen. Brown butter and toasted pecan. Brianna Wallen.

Cookie dough. Ariel. Chocolate brownie. Andy Paulo. Chocolate caramel crunch. Corey P. Superman. Is that a kind of ice cream?

I don't think so. I don't either. It's what he wrote. Corey, explain yourself. And long-term friends, Caitlin Johnson. Oreo. And Nikki Thacker. Moose tracks.

Welcome to the Supreme Court! Oh my gosh, I love that Caitlin Johnson was inducted on this episode because she's the one that recommended the Glensheen Mansion. Oh, cool! That's amazing! That's perfect how that worked out. Okay, I'm gonna look up Superman. That is not a thing, Corey. Surely not.

Corey P., come on. Come on, Corey. Get it together. Oh, it's a real thing. Superman ice cream? Superman ice cream is Superman ice cream. It's an ice cream that comes as a swirl of three colors, blue, red, and yellow. The three colors of Superman's costume.

Yeah, but what are the flavors? Yellow is not a flavor. It's not a flavor. I'll have some of the yellow and some uh some of the blue it's typically vanilla that doesn't answer anything this is so unsatisfying but if it's like okay blue moon which what the fuck is that cherry and lemon are the signature flavors included in the Superman ice cream. But some companies have the red as black cherry and the yellow as vanilla.

This is very confusing. This is too damn much. Corey P, we're very sorry for accusing you of giving us a false flavor. He's like, that's it. I'm out. I quit. I am leaving the Supreme Court. Oh, OK.

I would just like to say that I just pulled this up on Wikipedia. And in the references section, there is an article that says Superman ice cream, a Michigan thing. So we couldn't possibly know about it kristen possibly couldn't possibly even though kansas is the birthplace of superman did not know that you didn't know that superman was born in kansas i'm sorry he's not a real person thanks to all of our uh supporters on patreon and everybody who's supporting us other ways by following us on social media we're on on Facebook. We're on Twitter. We're on Instagram. We're on Reddit. We're on

YouTube. And hey, we're still working on that 300 goal on our iTunes ratings and reviews. So head on over there. Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. And then don't stop there. There's more. Be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole

new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the Blood Relatives episode of American Greed and an article from the Daily Oklahoman. And I got my info from the Duluth News Tribune, CityPages.com, and the Associated Press.

For a full list of our sources, visit LGTCPodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.