Let's Go To Court! - 87: A Brutal Attack on a Lawyer & Olestra

Episode Date: September 18, 2019

Jennifer Morey Caldwell was a cautious person. So when she picked out her apartment complex, she chose the Bayou Park Apartments. She was a young lawyer living alone in Houston, Texas, so she was drawn to the complex’s 24-hour security. The apartment complex was protected by Pinkerton Security. She’d heard of them. Surely they’d keep her safe.  Then, Kristin wraps things up with the explosive story of Olestra. Those of us who lived through the 90’s remember Frito-Lay’s Wow brand of chips. They were made using the chemical Olestra, which worked as a fat substitute. It was amazing! The chips tasted great! They had hardly any fat! There was just one tiny problem. They caused anal leakage. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Nutrition group seeks warning labels for olestra,” by Bruce Mohl for The Boston Globe “Frito-Lay agrees to label fake fat Olestra more clearly on its “Light” chips,” article by the Center for Science in the Public Interest Notice of intent to sue from the Center for Science in the Public Interest to Frito-Lay “Frito-Lay target of Olestra lawsuit,” article by the Center for Science in the Public Interest “Olestra: A Leaky History,” portablepress.com “FDA says Proctor & Gamble free to use fake fat,” medicinenet.com “Frito-Lay’s Wow chips hit Hoosiers hard,” press release by the Center for Science in the Public Interest In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “False Sense of Security” by Steve McVicker, Houston Press “Jennifer/Sampson/Norina” episode I Survived

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about Olestra.

Anal leakage? If people don't know. And I'll be talking about a brutal attack on a young lawyer. Anal leakage? How dare you? Alright team, we've got exciting news. Right now, as you are listening to this, you have

an amazing opportunity to join Beachbody today. No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, you can head over to our Patreon. It's patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. And we want you to vote on our next episode topic. Yes. Here are your options.

Divorces. Divorces. Or custody battles. on our next episode topic. Yes. Here are your options. Divorces. Or custody battles. Which ones? Which one? You know. You can only choose one. I'm sorry.

If you voted for both of them, it would really be pointless. To vote, all you have to do is be a district court judge, and that's just $2 a month. That's right. If you want to hear bonus episodes and all that jazz and join the discord that's five dollars a month if you want to just shoot for the moon that's seven dollars a month you become a supreme court judge supreme and that as you know comes with a sticker it comes with bragging rights that's right it comes with an induction absolutely on this very podcast that's correct what if you got inducted on a different

on my favorite murder sorry we don't have that kind of power we do not have that kind of power you want to talk about a brutal attack i guess so damn um mine my case is gonna lighten things up good because you're gonna be talking about leaky buttholes so wow spoilers spoilers everywhere if you don't see alestra and know that we're gonna be talking about fucking leaky buttholes have you even lived maybe this is gonna help a lot of people out. Okay. So my case, I will just right off the bat,

it is terrible, but it is a story of survival. So, okay. Oh, thank goodness. And most, I mean,

we're talking 90, 94% of this information comes from one source. It's an article for the Houston press, which I will not tell you the title of at this time. I can tell you at the end, because it will give something away. But what was I saying? You were saying it's by Skip Hollinsworth. No, no, no. It's not.

Really? It's from the Houston Press, and it's by Steve McVicker. I thought there was only one man in Texas who wrote about true crime, and it was Skip. Skip Hollinsworth. No. Steve McVicker, writing for the Houston Press. This is a great article. This story also may sound familiar to you if you are a fan of the show I Survived, because

her story was featured on that show. Okay. Okay. I love survival stories. Yes. Oh, I know this one. Oh, it's a good one. You do know this one?

I mean, should I say something and we'll cut it yeah she's the one who was like i love this story okay well okay yeah cut all that out yeah yeah man what a spoiler that would be yeah don't even listen to brandy's the night of april 14th 1995 started like any other for that's definitely not her name jennifer it says jennifer money in my notes it's definitely jennifer mori oh boy i believe that was an auto correct okay um she was a young lawyer in houston texas that particular night it was a friday night she'd gone out with some friends to the ale house which i did some looking into this it seems like a really cool place it was like this house that was uh originally a house like in houston and then during the prohibition it was turned into a speakeasy

and then it like got shut down for a long time kind of sat empty and then they turned it into this ale house um it was reportedly haunted and sadly it's no longer around and it is now a parking lot oh wah wah um so you said that would be a cool story well i thought it was cool because it was like this haunted parking lot no shit it was like this haunted bar let's go park there you stop it and no this article i found on it was like, what happens to spirits when their home becomes a parking lot? And that was the title and that's all I read. I don't know what happened. They hop in the Range Rover and go home with you.

So anyway, so she spends the night out at this cool bar. Has a couple drinks. Nothing crazy. She doesn't like, you know, get tore up from the floor up or anything like that. Kristen, why does your face look like that? I've never heard tore up from the floor up or anything like that. Kristen, why does your face look like that? I've never heard tore up from the floor up. You've never heard tore up from the floor up? No.

I am terribly sorry. They use it in a movie when a guy is trying to sound cool. Norm, back me up on this. What's that from? Tore up from the floor up? Yeah. It doesn't sound familiar to me. Exactly.

It's from a movie. Brandy made it up now i have to look into this oh god uh it's a song yeah i know but they reference it in a movie oh it's from juno oh her dad is talking about like her life decisions and stuff like that yeah i could i knew it was like a dad talking to someone but i couldn't place it anyway that's so not important anyway so she goes out with friends she she has a friend take her home to her apartment somewhere around midnight and so her friend takes her to her apartment located yeah hold hold up okay 4400 memorial Drive, Houston, Texas, 77007.

So these are the Bayou Park Apartments. If you want, you can actually search Bayou Park Apartments and get a better view of the actual apartment complex. I do want to do that. Oh, okay. They look like, like you know just kind of standard standard so there was a reason that jennifer had picked this apartment complex it had 24 hour a day security she was a young woman she was like 25 um she was doing really well for herself out on her own it was like her first job um since law school but she lived alone and she was smart and knew that there were risks in that and so she had specifically picked this apartment complex because they had

24 hour a day on-site security and it was provided by this security company that she'd heard of before Pinkerton security so that is a name that you've probably heard of yep um it is actually related to the Pinkerton detective agency yes it's actually like over the years that's what they have become they've become a security wow okay I didn't know that. Yes. All right. So Pinkerton Detective Agency has been around since like the 1800s. And this is kind of like the bastardized version that it has become today. They now deliver. Do they advertise themselves as the bastardized version?

I don't think so. I do not believe so. But it was a name she recognized. And she was like, this is great. I'm going to be safe. Yes. Wonderful. She goes to bed that night.

Everything's great until about four o'clock in the morning. Jennifer wakes up to intense pressure on her chest. Oh, God. She kind of wakes herself up out of her you know dream state whatever and there is a man on top of her and he is attempting to rape her oh my god he's holding her down she's fighting him she's kicking she's doing whatever she tries to move away from him she's screaming she realizes he has a knife to her throat as she tries to push him off he slices her throat open oh. Like from one ear all the way across her neck to like the center of her neck. She's still fighting through all of this.

Blood is gushing out of her. There is blood everywhere. All over her. All over the attacker. All over her bed. The wound was described as looking like a second mouth. Oh. That's how like gaping like a second mouth. Oh. That's how, like, gaping.

That is disgusting. Yeah. And then for a second, Jennifer thought, what am I doing? What is the point of this? I am going to die. And the fight just, like, went out of her. She just laid there. And the man who was attacking her grabbed her by her hair and dragged her into her bathroom, like slid her across the floor of her bathroom, slammed the door and like locked her in there.

There was no actual lock on this bathroom door, but he like closed the door and most likely just assumed she would just bleed out in there and die. And this is after he had raped her or? Yes. Okay. Unclear. Unclear. I believe.

It doesn't go into specifics. But, yes, I believe that he had, like, she woke up in the act of him raping her. Okay. Okay. Yes. So she's in this bathroom and she decides, I am not going to die in this bathroom. And she like gets herself together. She pushes her body against this door of this bathroom and puts her feet up on the bathtub to create like a wedge.

So that if this man tries to come into her bathroom, he won't be able to get the door open. She will be a physical wedge keeping this door closed because it doesn't lock, which who's ever heard of a bathroom door that doesn't lock? I don't know. That's a terrible design flaw. Sure, sure.

Our old house, the bathroom door didn't lock. Yeah, and it was a terrible design flaw. Actually, I take that back. It did lock, but you needed a skeleton key to lock it it's a terrible design flaw it's an old house okay these are new apartments though yeah if they're new apartments there's no excuse yeah yeah so she's in the bathroom she's assessing her situation she's got her neck just gushing gushing blood she grabs a towel and she's like holding a towel to it yeah and she's listening the apartment is

silent it's quite the contrast from what the scene just was where she's fighting and screaming and yelling and whatever all of a sudden it's just completely silent, completely dark. See, this part of any of these stories is so terrifying to me because. I don't know what could be worse than you think it's over. You open the door. Right. And he's still there. Oh, yeah. Because that's like Golden State killer shit.

Yeah. Yeah. He would stick around. Yes. Until you thought he was gone. Oh. I know, I know. Worst person ever.

I know. I can't even. I cannot handle the Golden State Killer. It terrifies me. Did you read I'll Be Gone in the Dark? Yes, I read. Yes. And I was terrified the entire time.

I would wake up in the middle of the night, and you know you'd have like a shadow in the corner of your room? You'd be like, well, he's here. He could be standing right there. Yeah. Yeah. Him and his stupid micro penis yes oh anyway don't worry he's caught guys yeah oh thank god oh so she listens and she listens and she listens she hears him zip his pants up. No. Yes. She hears him walk across the apartment and leave. Oh. And she decides at that moment that she can sit there and die or she can try to get help.

And so she gets herself up. She goes to open the bathroom door and it's jammed she has pressed herself against it so hard that she's physically jammed the door closed you're kidding and her hands are so covered in her own blood that she can't grip the doorknob to try and get like a good pull on it no yeah so she talks about how at that moment she literally laughed at the state of affairs like holy shit i am going to die in my bathroom right now because i can get the fucking door open oh my god oh my god yeah was she i mean i imagine she lost so so much blood was she able to stand i i believe that she was able to stand or at least get to her knees okay so she does eventually get the door open I believe that

she says something about getting a towel like using that and she she gets the door open she like crawls out of the bathroom and finds her cell phone so it's 1995 so the fact that she even had a cell phone. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. Amazing, yes. And she gets herself back in the bathroom. And she calls 911. Why does she go back into the bathroom? I think because she was. She felt safer there? Yeah.

It was enclosed. Yeah. And, you know, she could see everything there, I'm guessing. Okay. She calls 911. And this guy, I'm trying to find his name now. Sorry, I'm not anywhere near where I, in my notes, anywhere. This is what I deal with people.

I know. I'm so sorry. She calls 911. And the dispatcher who answers the phone, his name is Richard Everett. It's his first fucking day on the job. Oh, no. Oh, Richard. It is. phone his name is richard everett it's his first fucking day on the job oh no oh richard and he's like okay bear with me i will you are gonna get through this listen to what i'm saying

we will get through this together and he stays super calm and he helps her he's like i've got police i've got paramedics on the way to you. Talk to me. She describes her wound to him. He tells her to put more pressure on it, get a new towel on it, keep it, you know, closed, keep her hands on it. And he's just, like, talking to her, trying to keep her calm, letting her know. He's, like, following the emergency crews, like, on their way to her and like updating her they'll be there you know in this many minutes they'll be there in this many minutes and then there's a knock at her door and she tells the dispatcher she's like someone's here someone's here and he's like um i i don't

know the emergency crews are definitely not definitely not there yet i i'm not sure who that could be and so she goes to the door. She does not answer the door, but she's like, who is it? And the guy identifies himself as Brian Gibson. He says he's the security officer on duty that night and that he's aware that something has happened and that she needs to let him into the apartment. And so she's like thinking about it and she's talking to the dispatcher um richard and he's like i don't know i i don't think you should open the door i think you should go back to the bathroom wait for emergency crews to be there police will be there within a couple of minutes don't open the door and she's like okay okay yeah and so she doesn't and the guy the security officer's like let me in let me help you i'm i'm

here to help you and she's like no i'm not gonna answer the door i'm sorry i'm not gonna answer the door and so she goes back and she's on the phone with the the dispatcher emergency crews get to her i already told you at the beginning she survives this yes but emergency crews are met with the security officer when they arrive at Jennifer's apartment. And he is. Go ahead. What? How did he know that something had gone on? You're about to find out. OK. OK. So he is in a state sure when the police get there he is injured he's bloody he's missing part of his uniform and he's like guys i i'm on duty tonight i'm the security agent on duty i saw a man jump off of her balcony and run through the field i took off off after him. We got in a scuffle. I tried to catch him.

I couldn't, I couldn't get him. I can't believe I couldn't get him. And police are like, okay. And they're just trying to like assess the situation. They've got a woman that they know is like bleeding to death in the bathroom. So they get into her,

they get her, you know, medical attention, whatever. And then they start kind of looking at the scene and looking at this security guy brian uh-huh and he walks him through his story again the man left out of like the the she has like a balcony jennifer had a balcony or like a porch and he jumped over the balcony or the porch wall or whatever um and that's when the security agent saw him uh noticed

that he had a lot of blood on him, was going to track him down through this field. So the police look at this field that this guy has supposedly just run through, and there's fresh dew all over the top of it. It has not been disrupted in any way. Yeah. And then they're processing the scene

at Jennifer's apartment, and you know what they found inside her apartment? Part of this dude's uniform? The missing part of his uniform. His Pinkerton security hat was located inside Jennifer's apartment, as well as a pair of men's underwear. And would you believe it? When they asked him if he had his

underwear on he was sure missing them and i actually think this is sort of funny but they make kind of a big deal about this in this article that when they searched him and found that he didn't have his underwear on he had also shaved all of his pubic hair in an effort to leave behind no no dna i was like maybe the guy just liked to shave his balls. Okay, but this is 1995. Exactly. Yes, this is, people weren't manscaping back then. People weren't trimming it up.

Yeah, so they thought that he intentionally, like this was a planned out thing. He shaved his pubic hair so as to leave behind no pubic hair evidence at the scene. Yeah, no, that. Yeah, I mean, he likely did. At that time i mean he likely did at that time i'm sure yes but if they were to find someone today they'd be like that's just a dude who likes tuesday yeah this this story is insane so he i called him dumb he wasn't dumb because he was coming back

to oh he was likely coming back his get his uniform and finish her off. Yeah. Yeah. So he was trying like hell to get back into that apartment so that he could. Yeah. Get the evidence and make sure she couldn't ever identify him. Make sure she could never say what had happened to her. Absolutely.

him make sure she could never say what had happened to her absolutely i am so amazed that she that the dispatcher was like no don't answer the door and that she had i mean she must have been getting alarm bells in her head oh absolutely because under just a normal circumstance i would think that you would go to the door and be like, yeah, go ahead and help me. Yeah. I mean, my throat is slit. So she definitely credits the dispatcher, Richard, with helping save her life. Like she, to help her think clearly and think through that in the moment. And they are friends to this day.

Like he came to her wedding when she got married. Yeah, like they have remained in contact. So unfortunately, there's not a ton of court stuff available on this. But what we do know is that Brian Gibson was the security officer. He was arrested and he ended up being charged with attempted murder

and he was sentenced to 20 years in prison, which Jennifer was very unhappy with. She didn't think that was enough time um which i agree like i don't think that's very much time but he's out oh i guess he would yeah he's out he is living in i believe it's magnolia texas he has to register as a sex offender for the rest of his life oh yeah so that how long do you think he should have gotten i don't know i think it should be true it's the same thing he was charged with attempted murder which didn't carry you know as heavy as of a sentence as murder but i think he had every intention of murdering her and i think that he also there should be extenuating circumstances for the fact that he was in a position,

he used his position as a security officer. I think that's a mitigating circumstance. I also think that the fact that there was a sexual assault in there, which he does have to register as a sex offender, but I just don't think 20 years is enough. Okay. But I just don't think 20 years is enough. Okay.

This had a profound effect on Jennifer's life. Sure. She completely withdrew from her entire life. She went and lived with her parents. She couldn't get out of bed. She was scared of everything, severely depressed, and just couldn't handle it which i think is a completely reasonable response yes yeah in addition to having to heal from her physical injuries yeah they um he missed her carotid artery by like one millimeter oh god and her her voice box by like another millimeter so there was a serious risk

that she would if he would have hit her carotid artery she would have died immediately yeah if he would have hit her voice box she wouldn't have been able to call for help oh my god think about how differently that would have gone. She would have had to leave her apartment. Uh-huh. Where her attacker was. Yes. Yeah.

Oh, my God. Oh, God. Yeah. So she's, like, going through all of the things that I can't even imagine going through after an attack like this. And her brother comes to her one day, and he's like, you got to pull your shit together. Our parents can't afford to support you.

You've got a car payment you have to make. You're going to have to get it together. And it was like what she needed to hear, she said. Like it was. So she decided that she was going to, she was going to, you know, pull it together. And she was going to get her life back together, life on track. And so she actually consulted with a lawyer about what her options were for a civil case. How did this happen? How did someone like this get in the position that he was in?

And so a lawyer looked it over and he thought 100 percent they had grounds for a civil case against Pinkerton. OK, OK. What was in this guy's background? was well known and had a lot of, what's the word that I'm, clout because of their name. But they were also, but they were kind of like the discount agency. And they maintained their low prices by hiring low cost employees. So at the time of this attack, Brian had worked for the company for a couple of years, and he was making like a dollar over minimum wage per hour.

Oh, God. Minimum requirements were that he had a clean background when they run a background check and that he had a high school diploma. But he lied on his application and said, yeah, if you run my background, it'll be clear. Wait, so they never actually checked his background? No, they never did a full background check um not that that ton of stuff would have come back on him but there were other instances where they hired with pinkerton where other guards were accused in murders and attacks on women and so god yeah don't you have to do the background check especially in that line of work.

Who cares if they have a high school diploma? But the background check, that has to happen. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, when Jennifer and her lawyer started looking into Pinkerton's background, they found that in 1995, a guard who worked for Pinkerton was charged in a murder and had had, it was related to his position, wherever his assignment was,

and received like a 30-year sentence for murder. Brian had actually had complaints from other... Residents? Uh-huh, at different job assignments. This was his third reassignment because of complaints from customers about his behavior. What are they, the Catholic Church? They just move them around? Right, they just shuffle people around.

Oh. Yeah. So what were the complaints? Hey, this guy's a creep? That's the most frustrating thing about this because it happened in 1995. There's like no information available on it. Okay, gotcha. There were complaints and he was reassigned.

This was his third job assignment. And it was like, well, if you fuck up at this one, you might not have a job anymore. Might have to transfer you again. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So they took Pinkerton to court. Good. But Pinkerton settled for an undisclosed amount.

You hate settlements so much. I hate it so much. But it was probably good for Jennifer. She got a sum of money and was able to not, she didn't have to go through the whole court procedures of saying everything that had happened to her and all of that. Let's assume she got $5 million.

I hope. Well, she got enough money. Okay. She was able to start her own law practice. Cool. Yes. Oh, my God. So after all of this, she started her own law practice.

She's doing well. She's married. And she is still friends with her dispatcher that helped save her life. That is awesome. Yeah. As far as Pinkerton, according to this article, which is dated, this case made no impact on their hiring process. Oh, boy. Great.

Yes. Yeah. Ugh. Yep. hiring process oh boy great yes yeah yep but good for jennifer yeah and thank god for that for richard for being in that i mean his very first day and that's the call you imagine yes i i mean no i cannot i yes i cannot imagine And I'd handle it great also. Thank you for asking. Survival stories. I always start with my hands up by my neck. Can't handle it. But oh, yeah. In that when they were doing the like the records dig for Pinkerton and their hiring process at that time, they had 130 employees and they had like 4000 employees total, but they had 130 employees that held felony convictions. You're kidding me.

No. And at the very least, they were supposed to pass a background check to be able to get a guard position. So they had the honor system. Basically, yeah. Background checks can be expensive to run sure but when you're putting in somebody somebody in that position i you have to run them yeah they're not optional and you have to know that a lot of really creepy people gravitate toward those positions positions because they like the power yes yeah dennis raider yeah yes

exactly yeah i bet he would have really liked working for pinkerton i mean he was a freaking dog catcher but oh god yeah gross the story of jennifer moore she's actually jennifer caldwell now good for jennifer caldwell. We're happy for you. We're so happy for you. Okay. Are you ready? To talk about anal leakage? Brandy. No. I'm sorry. I see Alestra and I automatically think of anal leakage. No, you don't. And this isn't a spoiler. We have talked about this on an episode before. Have we? Yeah, very early. Like, maybe our third episode. We mentioned it. Don't go back and listen, folks.

They're really not good, folks. Have you tried to listen? No. I tried to listen to our first episode a while ago. And I got three seconds in. I couldn't. What were we thinking? The TV tray with one microphone?

With one mic was going to get it done. Anyway, here we are. Okay. Most of this information comes from the Center for Science in the Public Interest. Ooh. Okay? Yes.

All right. Brandy, it was nice. We've definitely used that source for something before. I think it was when I did my made-up case. I think it probably was. The Taco Bell case. That's where I got all the information about the parasite. Yeah.

No, they do great work. They're a great nonprofit. It was 1996 when the FDA approved one of the greatest inventions known to man. It was called Olestra. And contrary to what Brandy has told you, it was amazing. It really did seem amazing when it came out. Yeah. Hell yeah, it did.

Get this. Olestra worked as a fat substitute. And this was in the 90s when we were all terrified of fat. Now fat is good. Carbs are... I don't know. It's so confusing. It is.

Just, you know, don't eat carbs. Do eat carbs. Don't eat fat. Do eat fat. Don't eat sugar. But eat fruit sugar. Yeah.

Why are you confused? I know. I don't know. Yeah. So anyway, scientists could add it to food. And guess what? It wouldn't add any extra fat or calories. In short, it was the best thing ever.

Olestra, I did not know this, was invented by scientists at Procter & Gamble. I didn't know that either. So they were trying to create this supplement that would help premature babies gain weight. Oh. But Olestra didn't do that. Yeah. So they had this thing that obviously people wanted. But they weren't really the ones who wanted to do anything with it.

So that's when the good people at Frito-Lay stepped in. Oh, yeah. They were very intrigued by this invention. They were like, hey, Procter & Gamble, could we work out a deal here? Because you know what America would love? A brand new fat-free potato chip! Yes! And ultimately, they gave us those fat-free potato chips.

They were delicious, too. Were they? Yes. You never ate them? No, I did. I did. Okay, the Pringles tasted like legit Pringles. Yeah, let's get to our experiences with them.

Okay. Frito-Lay called them Wow Potato Chips. And do you remember this? They had the logo where an exclamation point was built into the last W because they, like, didn't have the time to add in. It was like there was a little dot under that last line of the W. So in 1997, Frito-Lay put out these magical, life-changing potato chips into test markets. They had Lay's.

Wow. Ruffles. Wow. Doritos. Wow. Tostitos. Wow. And people were like, wow, this is great.

I love chips. And now I can eat them without any guilt at all. Indiana was one of the test markets for the chips. And let me tell you, the Hoosiers loved these chips. But there was just one minor problem. Tiny. I mean, if you're really picky, maybe you'd be annoyed by this. I mean, if you're really picky, maybe you'd be annoyed by this.

You see, the chips, they did cause a little bit of the anal leakage. Oh! Yeah. Minor problem. Who cares, really? Also, abdominal cramping. Real bad diarrhea. Worth it.

So not everyone who ate the wow chips experienced these symptoms. But a lot of people took the stance that, hey, like if there's even a chance that I'm going to get anal leakage, I'm not going to eat them. OK, let's pause here. Yes. Do we all remember Wow Potato Chips? Yeah. I ate them. Yeah.

Okay. Never experienced anal leakage. I didn't either. Yeah. Norm? Never had them. You were not allowed to have them. My mom refused to buy them.

Oh. Why? Because of the anal leakage? She was always skeptical of foods that have been chemically altered. Oh, because of the anal leakage? Um, she was always skeptical of like, foods that have been like, chemically altered. Oh,

yeah. And these were chemically altered to the max. Yeah. Yeah, because Doritos are already pretty weird.

Yeah. Now they're, yeah. Cooked up in a lab. So, public health advocates, oh, oh,

I had another question for you guys. Okay, here, one thing I want to say. i was under the impression that you had to like eat an entire bag of them to experience the anal leakage so if you like if you you know went by the serving size of has anyone ever done seven chips uhhuh. You were in the clear. Turns out that's not necessarily true. Excellent. Yeah. But my question is for you guys.

Do you remember when they first came out? Did they have warnings on them? No. I don't believe so. See, I saw conflicting. I believe the warning came later. Yeah. I saw conflicting stuff on this. But my memory was that the warning came later.

My memory is completely that the warning came later. The warning came later, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Public health advocates. Nobody would buy a bag ever if they came out with a warning immediately that said, your butthole's going to leak. Well, my theory was that, first of all, it didn't say your butthole's going to be leaking.

It probably said, made with Olestra. Yeah. And it was probably on the back. Yeah. And then in real tiny writing, it says product may cause anal leakage. Loose stools or something. For some reason, I remember the term anal leakage on the package. We all do.

But I don't. Well, okay. Let's get it. Okay. All right. Can we get an anal leakage on the package. We all do. But I don't... Well, okay, let's get it. Okay, all right. Can we get an anal leakage count on this episode? Is that the homework for the listeners? Yeah, it's the homework. How many times was anal leakage? Public health advocates were like,

you can't do this to people. You can't sell them a product knowing it could cause anal leakage. Meanwhile, most of the people of Indiana weren't aware of the risks of Olestra, so they gobbled up the chips, and a few hours later, the sewer system of Indiana exploded. Is that a joke? Yeah.

Oh my gosh! I was horrified! Do you want me to read the label on the chips? Sure. So it did say, this product contains Olestra. Olestra may cause abdominal cramping and loose stools.

Olestra inhibits the absorption of some vitamins and other nutrients. Okay. No anal leakage. did not actually say anal where the hell am i coming up with that term i didn't come up with that on my own maybe you did it's an creep no don't worry it's we're getting to it okay all right we'll get to the anal leakage all right we're just so excited i'm so excited for the anal leakage. This was no surprise to people who knew Olestra well. When the FDA approved Olestra in 1996, the FDA's commissioner said, like, straight out, hey, Olestra can cause abdominal cramping and it can cause loose stools. And it inhibits your body's absorption of certain vitamins and nutrients.

But, of course, average everyday people didn't know that about this random chemical. They just thought they were eating miracle chips. And about an hour later, they thought their insides were on fire. The Center for Science in the Public Interest was pissed. They were like, we can't believe the FDA approved Olestra. And we can't believe that Frito-Lay is selling this crap to people and making people crap all over the place. So they decided to do something about it. In the spring of 1997, they ran this quarter page ad in the Indianapolis Star. And it basically said, hey, if you ate the Wow Potato Chips

and you subsequently blew up a toilet, give us a call at 1-888-ALESTRA. On the day that ad ran, they received almost 200 calls. Wow. Yes. They got call after call after call and started compiling all these stories. And they were like, you know what, that's it. It's time for a press conference. Cecilia Bowman, the president of Hoosier Organic Marketing Education, was there. She told the media, shame on Frito-Lay and Procter & Gamble for using Hoosiers as guinea pigs for their products. The FDA should yank Olestra from the market. If Wow Chips and other foods made with it were ever marketed nationally, millions of consumers could get sick. Frito-Lay's reputation might literally

be going down the toilet in Indiana. Hmm. Yeah, it'd be a shame if those were marketed nationally. Yeah. Who knows what could happen. Good thing they had this press conference to stop everything. That didn't happen. They went national.

The executive director of the CSPI also spoke. He said, The flood of calls we have received represents the tip of the iceberg. In just the two weeks on the market, wow chips have probably sickened thousands of people. People have missed work or school, called their doctor, or didn't get to the bathroom in time. Oh, they shit themselves? Mm-hmm. Norm, would you mind bringing me my water bottle over there? Oh, please. What a man, what a man, what a man, what a mighty good man.

Yes, he is. Yes, my man says he loves me. Never says he loves me not. I won't sing anymore because then it gets really dirty. What happens after that? He rubs me good and touched me in the right spot. Oh. me good and touch me in the right spot oh then a bunch of alestra victims spoke at the press conference okay this one kills me oh my god i would never if i had shit my pants i would or

experienced anal leakage i would never go to a press conference and be like, I was affected by these horrible chips. Yes, it's me. I soiled a pair of underwear. Yeah, Kristen Caruso, Kansas City, Missouri. What else do you want to know? So there was Dana Laughlin, a mother of four from Plainfield, Indiana. She told the world that her 12-year-old son had had diarrhea for seven days. Oh, my God.

Plus terrible gas. Oh. After eating five ounces of nacho cheese Wow Doritos. Wow. She said that, I mean this poor kid, he's 12 years old and his mom's up there just blasting his business. She said

that he had an accident and bed it for him. He literally shook the bed. He shook the bed and his mom told everybody. National television? Was this televised? I don't know that it was televised.

Well, thank goodness, but I bet people he knew were there. Well, I mean, my guess is if you hold a press conference about people sharting, I would imagine the news shows up. Like, how dare you say that while I had a drink in my mouth. So, yeah, she said he had an accident in bed at 4am and he missed two days of school so then all his little friends knew why he'd been gone. Oh my gosh, this poor kid!

Seven days of diarrhea, over five ounces. And nacho cheese Doritos. Ooh. Pat McGee. Pat McGee was... pat mcgee pat mcgee was what i don't know how to pronounce this it's mc g h e h e y mcgee spell it again mc g h e h e y G-H-E-H-E-Y. I'm a chee-gee. Nope. That's not it.

What the fuck was that? That was so funny. I'm a chee-gee. No, okay. That's like a robot. Okay, yeah. Norm, stop it. That's creepy, and we don't need...

Don't you want to know? No. I think it's McGee-hee. Okay. Actually, there's a guy on Jackass with his last name. Speaking of Jackass. What? Have you heard about Bam Margera?

What? He reached out to Dr. Phil for help. He's like a drug addict and needs, yeah. Well, that doesn't surprise me. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Well, I guess it surprises me that he reached out to Dr. Phil. Yeah. Well, that doesn't surprise me. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I guess it surprises me that he reached out to Dr. Phil.

Yeah. I watched just like, I don't know, a clip of it today. Don't lie, Brandy. We know you watched the whole thing. I wish I would have watched way more if I had the time. I only got to watch like a five minute clip because that's all the time that I had. Does this podcast cut into your Dr. Phil watching? My Dr. Phil time.

Yeah. It says that he became super depressed because as a skateboarder he's supposed to be super skinny and as he's gotten older he's just gained a bunch of weight and so he started experimenting with drugs in order to try and lose weight like he did really yeah and he got he did adderall a bunch he abused adderall he has an actual prescription for Adderall. Right. But he didn't really like meth that much. He used coke a ton. He hates pot.

Doesn't like doesn't like hallucinogenics and stuff like that. But he's got a major problem with drugs and alcohol and he doesn't really know what to do. And he hates taking his prescriptions because he feels like all of these doctors tell him to take all of these conflicting things and he doesn't feel any different and he doesn't feel like himself. That's as far as I got. I would have never guessed that this was weight related.

I mean, when you said one of the guys from Jackass had trouble with drugs, I was like, well, yeah, probably. Well, I think he's got severe depression oh yeah because when ryan dunn died he was he got really he said on this clip that his depression was brought on by his weight gain like that was the that was like the tipping point for him i didn't know skateboarders were supposed to be skinny yeah to do the tricks you have to be a little dude look at t Tony Hawk. Yeah.

Well, no, I mean, now that I think about it, yeah, I mean, I can't think of a choice. Gravity does not work in your favor if you, have you ever, okay, do you know the skateboarder Rob Dyrdek? No. Okay, well, he had a show on MTV, Rob and Big, where he, it was like a reality show that followed him and his bodyguard, Bighuh big black this dude is huge giant black man weighed like 450 pounds i gathered that and the name yeah that was his name he had a whole brand these cool shirts that had like two b's on him anyway rob tried like constantly wanted to get him on a skateboard and he was terrified to do it. Yeah. And so finally,

he like wraps him in like bubble wrap or something and gets him on his skateboard and gets him to go off like the tiniest little ramp. And he just, physics just do not work for someone large like that. Dude just smack hit the ground. But he had the bubble wrap. Skateboard took off running. Rest in peace to Big. Yes, yeah, yes yeah he died yeah a couple years ago man that was a good show i liked robin big yeah loved it what the hell it was so good where was i hilarious let me tell you

about my best friend you were you were like nose deep in a book or something. You're probably watching Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. Yeah. Oh, is there Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders? You guys are way off topic right now. There's lawsuit news about them. One of the cheerleaders, okay, you know what? Maybe I'll save it for a future episode and you guys can suck it and have to listen to me talk at length about the cheerleaders but it was more of a settlement it didn't go to trial so it'd be you know a little lame but yeah well mine

mine was super light on the court stuff today so i'll allow it okay thank you judge all right um so pat mcgahey mcghee whatever was a pet groomer from indianapolis she ate half of a family-sized bag of lay's original wow chips and while she was at work she experienced horrible smelling gas no bloating yellow orange stains. Okay. Where were the stains? Okay. Were they on her nacho cheese fingers or was they coming from her butt hole? Don't you fucking wish.

I read somewhere that like people experience like they'd look in the toilet and there would be like orange oil. Oh, yeah. What do you mean? Oh, yeah. Did you experience this no no but it reminds me of this diet pill that was out a few years ago oh so it was this diet pill that was approved by the fda that was the big thing like first diet pill approved by the fda it really works and it isolated the fat in your food so you would like I did not use it my client told me about it you would you'd eat and it would separate out the fat molecules

oh god and then that way your body didn't absorb it but then when you went to the bathroom it was like what just like a just like oil just like came out your butthole and then just like lay But then when you went to the bathroom, it was like. What? Just like a just like oil just like came out your butthole and then just like laid across the surface of the water because it doesn't. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was FDA approved. Yeah, I'm beginning to think that it's not such a rigorous process. That is disgusting. Yeah, this client was to think that that's not such a rigorous process. That is disgusting.

Yeah, this client was a little bit odd. I don't know why I'm being so nice. I did her hair one time, and she told me all of this. And she was like, I started testing its limits. What? She's like, I would eat potato chips dipped in butter to see what would happen. No. Ew.

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. No. Ew. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. She also had greasy stools, which how do you know that it's greasy? I think like that.

You get a film on the water. Film on the water. Street in your undies. Olestra works. I look great in a bikini. I think that was their failed theme song. Oh, no. I should have been.

So these symptoms started at work. They lasted till 2 in the morning oh no was she wearing white pants i don't understand how somebody did people see her orange butt stains well i'm hoping that they just went into a toilet bowl near you be stains kristin you know what you're right they wouldn't be stains stains. I am ignoring what I have here and trying to make it better. But no, a stain, you're right. That's in the undies best case scenario. Worst case scenario, breakthrough leakage.

Breakthrough leakage. Oh, God. The CSPI said their goal was simple. They wanted the FDA to revoke its approval of Olestra. Or at the very least, they wanted the chips to have a very prominent, strongly worded label. They wanted the warning label to read, Olestra may cause abdominal cramping and loose stools. But the FDA didn't revoke its approval of Alestra. No, they were like, let's get this thing nationwide!

Yeah! Let's make everybody shit their pants! And in 1998, Wow chips were sold all over the nation. Because, hey, they didn't give everyone anal leakage. Oh, my goodness. In the first year on the market, Frito-Lay sold $400 million worth of Wow chips. I have no doubt. I don't either.

I mean, for those of us who lived through the anal leakage of 1998, I mean, everyone bought these chips because what could be better? Yeah. Like, oh, I can. It's delicious. They taste roughly the same. Yeah. And. Hey, if my butthole leaks a little bit, then.

So be it. So be it. C'est la vie. Hakuna Matata. Hakuna Matata. So I mentioned this a little bit earlier. It's unclear to me whether the wow chips that first hit the market had prominent warning labels. It is possible that they did, because when the FDA first approved Elestra,

they said that they wanted all products that had Elestra to be labeled as such. But again, who knows how prominent the labels were? Who knows exactly what they said? At some point, though, Wow Chips were properly labeled as poop blasters. Poop. By the way, I watched a commercial yesterday for Wow Potato Chips.

Was it as good as the Corn Nuts one that I played you the other day? Okay, that was horrifying. But this one was also horrifying. It was a dad and his son floating in a river on little inner tubes. I mean, if they had anal leakage, then... That's exactly what I was thinking! Just fine.

When you think of it in the context of anal leakage, you're like, oh, that dad's butt is dipped right into the river. No one's going to see those orange stains. That's right. Keep on leaking. This is an oily river we're in, son. But I look great. Olestra quickly became a joke. Comedians made fun of it.

People talked shit about it. See what I did? And sales dropped big time. By 2000, just two years after Wow Chips hit the market, sales were just half of what they'd been in 1998. Yes, because people were like, holy shit, this made me shit my pants. Yes, eventually, Wow Chips, why, what are you doing?

I gotta see if I'm making up this, I swear. They never said anal leakage. They did. No, they didn't. Where did I come up with that phrase? I didn't make up that phrase. No, it became known in news articles as something that could happen. And of course, people latched

onto that phrasing. No, it was in parentheses. I mean, it's another name for loose stool. Anal leakage. I don't think it ever said anal leakage on the labels. She's steaming. She's steaming mad, folks.

I'm going to need to look further into this. Where's that term coming from? That's coming from the CSspi okay yeah that's one of the things they said about alestra no i get that part do you yes i've slumped down in my chair because i need to find out if it was called if it said anal leakage on the package. She's in full-on research mode, folks. It's not satisfying enough to know that they cause anal leakage. No, I want the bag to say it caused anal leakage.

It never did. It never said that it caused anal leakage. It said abdominal cramping and loose stools. Fine. Why is your pride all wrapped up in anal leakage it said abdominal cramping and loose stools fine why is your pride all wrapped up in anal leakage i don't know i just have a very clear memory of it saying that on the bag okay it's the mandela effect it is what's the mandela effect it is when you have a memory of something that isn't actually real. Yeah. Is it tied to Nelson Mandela? It is because everyone thought he died in prison.

Oh, no. So that's why it's called the Mandela Effect. Oh. Because everyone's like, I swore he died in prison in South Africa. Kristen, do you think there was a movie in the 90s called Shazam starring Sinbad? Yes, I do. It starred Shaquille O'Neal didn't it yeah there is no movie in the 90s called Shazam starring Sinbad wow everyone thinks there was yeah wow there was a movie called Kazam with Shaq yes oh well okay no very different yeah you're right damn it all to hell this is my anal leakage i i am fascinated by the mandela effect if you'd like to talk more please join me in the discord

that's just five dollars a month to talk to norman about the mandela effect a bargain at any price i say eventually wow chips quietly farted themselves into oblivion i'm so sorry to have hijacked your episode with my focus on gonna say anal leakage are you gonna keep looking at your screen are you gonna i'm closing it right now i'm very sorry i'm very upset right now i can tell you're so passionate about i swear it existed but it clearly didn't. No. Yeah. I'm telling you. No. Okay. You know what I need to do? What? Next time you're over I need to

get a bag of chips and Sharpie on there and a leakage. I'm not Donald Trump Kristen. No it would make me Donald because I'm the one with the Sharpie. And you're the American people not buying it for a bit. So, you know, wow chips went bye bye. Which may sadden you tremendously.

Because you're probably thinking, well, I'm a risk taker. I don't mind a little loose stool now and again. I'll eat those shit chips as long as I'm a risk taker. I don't mind a little loose stool now and again. I'll eat those shit chips as long as I'm cutting calories. Yeah. Well, you'd be in luck because in 2003, the FDA removed their requirement that all foods made with Olestra come with a warning label.

Why? Interesting question. And you'll get different answers depending on who you ask. So the FDA says that they removed their warning label because it just wasn't super necessary anymore. Most people knew about Olestra. They knew about the bad effects. But I would argue that we know the bad effects of smoking

and that you still have a label. They also said that the studies on Olestra showed that they only caused a minor increase in bowel movement frequency. So you put, you know, me in a room eating chips. You put you in a room eating the Wow version of the chips. And you're only going to go poop a few more times than me. So what's the big deal? You know what I would argue needs a warning on it. What?

Those Fiber One granola bars. Have you ever had those puppies? Brandy, you know I've had those puppies. And you know what happened to me. It happened to me too. Should we share? Therapy session. My best poop story I've already told on the podcast

it's the burger king bathroom episode go check it out so many tangents but i have a my my go for it my client doreen who we know and love yes yes had a hey shout out to doreen had a comment about you bringing stuff into the car okay and she said norman it was just wildly just out out of line for you to be upset with kristin about that because you knew when you married her that she had shit in a bag in her car so wait when was i upset what dorina's saying is how could you be mad that i brought in like a banana oh because you pooped in a bag in a car so a glass of tea is like really the best case scenario dorina has a point she has a very good point she has a very good point no so my story about fiber one bars yeah so norman used to get Fiber One bars pretty regularly.

And I would eat them on occasion. And I could have sworn to you that they did not affect me at all. Looking back now, what I realize is that I was probably always just near a bathroom. And I just didn't put it all together. Anyway, one time we were flying home from North Carolina to Kansas City to see my parents. And of course, that is a weird ass route. So no one takes it. So it's like you transfer this blah, blah, blah.

Another fun fact about me. I hate to go to the bathroom on an airplane. Think it's disgusting. We'll avoid it at all costs. Okay. So on the way to the airport, I had a fiber one bar. Again, because they don't affect me. We got to the airport. I had a large coffee from Starbucks, which I might as well have had three bags of wow potato chips because that entire flight I was miserable. I could, I mean,

shit was up to my eyeballs, but I refused to go to the bathroom. And on top of that, I was miserable. I could, I mean, shit was up to my eyeballs, but I refused to go to the bathroom. And on top of that, I was very, very hungry. So I looked in my bag and all I had was another Fiber One. Yeah, I ate them regularly. Never had problems with them. Thought they were the most delicious granola bar on the planet. And then one day I had two.

Like one and then I didn't have any I was at salon and I'd been really busy and so I ate one and then I don't know I don't know what led to me eating a second one like a short time later it was you were not thinking I was the only food that I had and so I was like oh I'll just eat another one of these real quick and I'll be fine I think I was supposed to like get off work and I ended up having to stay late or something like that and so i wasn't gonna make it and so my stomach bloated up like i was seven months pregnant i swear to you it was so painful just horrific thankfully i was not on an airplane. I remember you were sweating. Yeah. Yeah, I was. I was like, are you okay?

And you didn't want to tell me at first what was going on. Right, because we were freshly in love and I didn't want to confess to you that You poop? that I was about to explode and there would be no blood, there would be no bones,

it would just be poop. This is all I have left of Kristen. Did I eventually tell you? Yeah. Okay. When we got off the plane. Okay. You like got to the bathroom real quick.

How sweaty was I? I thought you were sick. In a way I was. Or like you were nervous about flying. Okay, so they removed the warning. They're like, fuck this, everybody's cool. Everybody knows that this makes you, your butthole weak. So that's the FDA's story on why they removed it.

But the Center for Science and the Public Interest was like, no, you did this because lobbyists got to you. Yeah. You didn't drop the labeling requirement because Olestra is no big deal. You've received more than 20,000 complaints about Olestra. That's more complaints than you've received about any other food additive combined. Wow. Foods that are made with Olestra need a warning label.

Meanwhile, our good friends, the ass blasters over at Frito-Lay, were like, hey, everybody. Hey, hey, hey. We've got a new line of chips. They're our light line of chips. Hey, they're definitely not just the wow chips with new packaging. They're so different. They're so different, you'll shit your pants

you should all go out and enjoy them today preferably near a toilet once again the people at the center for science and the public interest were so mad frito-lay was at it again. And this time, they didn't even have to warn anybody what they were up to. But what could they do about it? They'd already complained to the press. They'd written strongly worded letters. Well, around this time, I'm so excited, the CSPI found out about a 30-year-old woman named Lori Perlow. She was from Braintree, Massachusetts. And about June 15, 2005, she purchased a bag of Ruffles light cheddar potato chips. She ate them. She had no idea that they'd been made with Elestra.

And she said that if she'd known, she would not have purchased them. Because after she ate them, she had severe gas, cramps, and an urgent need to go to the bathroom. She said, I remember learning about the effects of Elestra, so never in a million years would I have knowingly purchased potato chips that contain it. I was driving my car when the symptoms hit.

Frankly, I feel lucky to have reached my destination in one piece. Wow. I've never related to anyone more. So she and the CSPI teamed up together and they looked at each other and they said, Let's go to court! They said that Frito-Lay knowingly and intentionally

failed to inform Lori of the side effects of Olestra and that by changing the name of the Wow Chips to Light, they were being intentionally misleading about whether the Light Chips contained Olestra. Correct.

Yes, absolutely. This was deceptive. Yeah. intentionally misleading about whether the light chips contained olestra correct yes absolutely this was deceptive yeah yeah i completely i completely agree because no one was buying those wow chips anymore but if he says light i just assume that you've cut back the calories somehow i don't assume that you've got olestra in there you've got i don't what i don't assume that you've got Olestra in there. You've got... I don't... What? I don't know. Did you want to say anal leakage again? I did.

I censored myself. I think I've met the max. What's the max? I don't know. Fifteen? I've said it at least fifteen times. Probably surpassed that. If they had disclosed the fact that Olestra was in their light chips, Lori would have never

purchased them. CSPI's litigation director, which I didn't know that was a title you could have, but whatever, Steve Gardner said, it's bad enough that Frito-Lay still uses this discredited and dangerous chemical, one of the most infamous food additives in history. But by quietly changing the name of this product line and purposely de-emphasizing the presence of Olestra, Frito-Lay is really tricking consumers. And that deception is putting Americans at risk of some pretty unsettling side effects. Unsettling is an understatement. Yes. In January of 2006, they publicly notified Frito-Lay of their intent to sue.

And the announcement, of course, made headlines. Because we got to talk about anal leakage again, and what could be better. Right. But Frito-Lay spoke out. They said that they were complying with all federal laws and regulations. They saw no need to change

the way their products were labeled. So everybody back off. And buy some more chips. Chips. Get some more anal leakage. Yeah. Come on. That'll clean you out real good.

Yeah, it's really good for you. It's like a colon cleanse. But in June of that year, Frito-Lay caved. As part of their settlement agreement frito-lay agreed to prominently display an oval shaped olene logo on their light chips have you seen this yeah i was wondering if olene was going to come up because they like that's the brand name they like rebranded right right they're like okay we won't put a lustra on there Yeah, Olene is kind of like the little fancy name for Olestra. Olestra, yeah.

So it says Olene in the little oval logo, along with like, it's not a tagline, but it says underneath it, made with Olestra. So that little logo goes on the front, and there would also be a mention of Olestra on the back of the package as well. Frito-Lay also agreed to give the Harvard Medical School Division of Nutrition $150,000, which, I mean, Frito-Lay had to find that like between the couch cushions. Exactly. Nothing for them. After the settlement was announced, CSPI's executive director said, we're pleased that Frito-Lay agreed to these modest changes, which are sufficient to avoid a lawsuit and will help consumers who know enough to avoid Alestra to do so. That this unsavory chemical was allowed to enter and remain in the food supply at all represents a serious mistake by the Food and Drug Administration. Wow.

And that is the explosive story of alestra that was excellent thank you it was kind of light on the court stuff but i've wanted to cover it for like yeah since like our third episode i really have yeah i i just think it's crazy that this was allowed that this is still allowed uh yes in our food yeah as a surprise i have brought in a bag of wild potato chips. Who's got the balls to eat these? They don't make those anymore. No, I think... You can...

I think I've seen the light potato chips in the grocery store. Yeah, I think the Pringles still exist. Pringle, I think Pringles are still around. Yeah, and they're made

with Elestra. But they have to have that label, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, are you ladies ready for some questions? We are. So, Norman, tell us what you've done here.

Every Wednesday when you guys record, I go into the Discord and I ask your fine supporters if they'd like to ask you guys any questions. And I say the sillier the better because silly questions are always more entertaining. Yes. So let's answer a few of these, shall we? Yes, please. Okay, let's do it. Okay. Shauna wants to know, if you could change the outcome of any case, what would the case be and what would you make the final verdict? Oh, gosh.

Oh my gosh. I feel like, for me, the answer could change depending on the minute right now. Right now, the answer could change depending on the minute right now. Right now, the thing that is still on my mind is the Tyler Clemente suicide that we talked about. I guess this would be last week. Justice was not served there. So Darun Ravi got 20 days. I mean, he served 20 days in jail, and that was not even close to justice. Yeah.

So I think I said in the episode that I thought he deserved five years. And listening to it back, I was like, no, I think he deserved more for that. I don't know what the right answer was to that. Well, it's not 20 days. Yeah, not 20 days. But there are a million cases that I think didn't go right. Same. Oh, gosh. I don't even know.

The first one for me that comes to mind is JonBenet. Because a grand jury voted to indict, and then it never happened. Although I don't think her parents are the ones that did it. Have we discussed our theory on here before? My theory? Have I ever discussed it? Here I don't think her parents are the ones that did it have we discussed our theory on here before my theory have i ever not on here i don't but i mean i know your theory go ahead so i 100 believe that her brother killed her and that her parents covered it up so they wouldn't lose both children yeah and so yeah i think somebody should have paid for that. I don't know what the answer is, though. You guys ready for another question? Yeah.

Yeah. My question is from Tyler. My question is for Brandy. What is the worst client experience you've ever had as a hairstylist? I love these questions. Aside from the balloon guy. Oh, my. Yeah, I was going to say that guy wasn't a client, but that was terrible. So it's got to be somebody who sat in the chair and got his hair cut.

Oh, gosh. There's been so many weird ones. Okay, so I'm going to give two quick ones. My favorite one, which was also like super weird, was I cut this guy's hair. This has been years and years and years ago. He sat down in my chair, and he was like drinking a milkshake from Sonic. Like it was the first time he'd ever tasted a milkshake in his life. Oh, God. And just like really sucking on the straw. And so he sits down. a milkshake from Sonic. Like it was the first time he'd ever tasted a milkshake in his life. Oh, God.

And just like really sucking on the straw. And so he sits down. I put his cape on. And I'm like, so, you know, what are we doing today? And he's like, you know, like haircut. And I was like, okay, great. Yeah. How do you usually get it cut?

I don't really know. And I was like, okay. So when you typically get your haircut do they usually use scissors or do you get clippers you know what do they what do they usually do and it's not super like most people know that like do they use a machine on the side yeah just all scissor cut like that's pretty easy to determine super common for someone not to know like the clipper guard that gets used anything like that not a big deal i can figure all that out but i'm like just a starting point do you get clippers or just scissors usually and this answer was the craziest answer

i've ever gotten in my life and it like i had to like physically keep myself from having an outward reaction so i said you know you usually get clippers or or scissors you How do you usually get your hair cut? I don't know. I'm not from around here. What? This guy escaped Area 51. He escaped Area 51. I'm not from around here. He had to change his identity.

Do they have scissors from where you are um and then i would say the first thing that comes to mind is my worst experience this is the story that i told you this woman came in i had been doing her hair for months at this point i'd done her hair several times the highlight of her hair many times right she comes in one day and it is she didn't have an appointment i had done her hair like a week prior she comes in and i can just tell that like she's in a mood like she comes in she just opens the door to the salon aggressively and then she's like holding her phone out she's a friend on speaker phone with her and she has come into the salon to confront me oh my god because she just looked in the mirror and there are no highlights on the underneath portion of her hair and so she says it like just like that to me yeah and and i'm like

right yeah we've we've been doing a partial highlight you know that's i've always only highlighted the top and sides you know we've never done the underneath and she's adamant no i always get a full i have been paying you 70 to highlight my hair and I was like yeah that's a partial I've never put any highlights in the underneath of your hair let me let me show you and so her friend is like tell her what you told me tell her what you told me and she's just like her friend is like egging her on on this phone and her friend is calling me unprofessional and all this stuff which I will say I'm very laid back on this podcast. I am super professional when it comes to dealing with my clients.

And so she's pissed and I'm trying to explain to her that she's only ever gotten a partial. Every time I've done her hair, I've never put highlights on the underneath of her hair. And so I am talking to her and I'm like, if you'll give your friend a call back in a few minutes, let me show you what I do. I'll walk you through it. I'll show you everything. And she's like, her friend's like,

she's just trying to get you off the phone with me. She's just trying to get you off the phone with me. And I'm like, I promise you I'm not. I just want to have a conversation with you so that we can make sure that we're on the same page. And so she does. She gets off her phone. I have her sit down on my chair.

I part her hair off and I show her. These are the portions that I highlight every time. This part, you'll notice there's no highlight in it because I never highlight it. Like if I had highlighted it a couple times ago but didn't do it this time, you would have highlights like from the mid-shaft to the end. There's no highlights there. She got so pissed. She like ripped her cape off that I'd put on her. She threw it on the ground.

Then she about slipped on it, getting up out of the chair. And she screamed at me that she had $3,000 in her purse. And all she wanted me to do was fix her hair for Christmas. And I was refusing to do that. And I was like, what? That's not at all what we and then she stormed out of the salon said she'd be telling everybody what a horrible stylist i am i was like okay great thank you have a great day brandy ruins christmas why'd you have to ruin her christmas i i didn't i was not my intention to ruin her christmas at all well the unfortunate thing is to get a full set of highlights with you

is four thousand that's right so she was just shy she was shy dollars for a partial four thousand for a full seems like a deal to just get a ton of partial. If you had to do a podcast on some other topic, what would it be? This is from Gadriel. God, that's hard because I really I was thinking the other day

how much I love the topic we, like our topic now, because I like to be able to do something really horrible and sad, but also super light and ass-glowy like Olestra. Yeah. I really loved our Patreon episode, the unsolved stuff. So I think if I was going to pick a different topic i think i might do unsolved unsolved yeah that was really really fun yeah that's out now by the way yes um we both did these crazy unsolved cases it was super it was voted on by the patrons and i it was so loved

it it was super fun b barsanus yeah it's b's B. Barsanus. B. Barsanus. What are your guilty pleasure TV shows? I think I know the answer to both of these. Well, for me, it's obviously Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders, Maybe the Team. I fucking love that show. What do you think mine is? Family Feud. I love the Family Feud.

It's really anything on the Game Show Network. Actually, I'm kind of obsessed with this new game show on the game show network it's called america says and it's it's pretty awesome i feel like you need to go have this conversation at a nursing home to get the brown people who will actually know what you're talking about i love the game show networks yeah that's definitely my guilty pleasure yeah game shows yeah i cannot stand Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders making it. I have. I've tried to watch it. First of all, it's cowboys because there's more than one of them.

And how dare you? I've literally never seen an episode. I don't. I didn't even know the show existed until you talked about it. Well, you're missing out. Everyone looks the same on that show. No, they have brunettes too. They all blonde.

Yeah. Blonde. Long blonde hair. And the way they edit the show is I can't stand it. I cannot stand the editing. What is wrong with the editing, sir? Because when they dance, they edit in a music track over it, not the actual music track they use. It's a low budget show.

It's very distracting. It's a low budget show. They get the royalty-free music although no no they use they use legit music oh well in later seasons yes but in early seasons it was like i don't know what this is final question from jmM. Kapisius. This is a good one. What is your go-to candy or snack for long road trips? Ooh, I've got a weird one.

What is it? I like, and Norman knows this, I love, they're hard to find, but Twizzler nibs. Not regular. Okay, it's Twizzlers. My car snack is Twizzlers. Okay, it's Twizzlers. My car snack is Twizzlers. I love the nibs too. Nibs are very rare. It's not like overly sweet.

I love Twizzlers. In all forms. I like the nibs. I like the originals. I like the pollen peels. I don't like the weird fruit ones with the junk in the middle. I don't want those ones. But Twizzlers are my

car snack you know what i feel like this has been locked in since elementary school together we've gone on so many i know and you know what my mom loves licorice so i bet you yeah she yeah probably it's probably listener homework uh count the number of times anal leakage has been said in this podcast and to send us twizzlers to the P.O. Box. This is how we cash in, huh? Before listener homework, I have one more tidbit that we need to talk about on the show. One more nib? One more nib.

One more Twizzler nib. My mom texts me and is claiming responsibility for our friendship. Yes! Okay, you told me about this. I'm so excited you're telling this on the podcast. We talked about on a recent episode about us, how something that we did in the fifth grade and like that was the year we became friends and whatever. My mom texted me and she said, oh my gosh, I am responsible for your guys' friendship

in a roundabout way. Yeah. I was like, okay, mom, sure. It couldn't just be that, like, we're both amazing and gravitated towards each other. So we became friends when we were in Mrs. Francis's fifth grade class. And I assume we were sat by each other

because it was probably, we were sat alphabetically, right? And so. Which for anyone who's like, no, we both had last names that started with p yes so we we were definitely right next to each other so i was originally supposed to be in a different class so i was assigned there was like one male teacher at our elementary school my sister casey had had him and my mom didn't didn't love she thought he was a great teacher didn't love the the social experience that my sister had in his class and she thought he was a great teacher didn't love the the social experience

that my sister had in his class and she thought it just wasn't the right environment for me and so she wanted me in a different class she so she called the school and they're like sorry we don't we don't do that around you get the class you get and my mom like made a big stink about it i guess and somebody moved out of district. And when that person moved, they gave me their spot in Mrs. Francis's class. That is wild. Yeah. Yeah, that's crazy.

Yep. So yeah, that's how we became friends. That's how we became friends. Shout out to Brandy's mom. That's right. Yeah. I should say just for that one lone male teacher kyla had him yeah when she was in fifth grade loved it and casey casey really liked him when she had him too it's just some thing i

don't know you know moms whatever you know how moms be that's right arranging your life for you finding your bff finding your lifelong bff Mom. Yeah, thank you. All right, should we do Supreme Court inductions? Oh, yes. Do you know how to open? Yeah, I don't want to talk about it, Carson. Go ahead and get your phone out. You stop it. For this induction, I'd like you to all rise and grab your favorite bag of potato chips.

Excellent. Kara Ryan. Stinkin' cute. Oh, we're doing least favorite words. God damn it. For this round of inductions, we are still sticking up with least favorite words. Sticking with least favorite words. Kara Ryan

Stinkin' cute Marissa Kolka Anyways Cindy Smith Fester Ew Brenda Futrell Tits

I have to disagree I like tits I think a lot of people like tits I don't really like that Unpopular opinion I loved it Allie Bromhead Penetration

Terrible word It gives me a feeling Like you've been penetrated I knew you were going to say that Well you were pointing to your throat What was I supposed to say Amanda Baker Hubby

Slash wifey Hey girl I don't like hubby slash wifey hey girl hubby no no one does Jen Richter pussy I don't like it either I hate it the way you said it

how was I supposed to say it it sounded terrible pussy it sounded terrible. Pussy. Yeah, it sounded terrible. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Thank you guys for all of your support. We appreciate it. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media.

We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, YouTube, all of those places. Head on over to our Patreon if you've not signed up for that. Patreon.com slash LGTC podcast. And then be sure to join us next week. And subscribe to us. Oh, hell, that's right. And after you've subscribed to us, be sure to join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics.

Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. Sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the Center for Science and the Public Interest,

MedicineNet.com, the Boston Globe, and Wikipedia. And I got my info from an article from the Houston Press by Steve McVicker called False Sense of Security, as well as an episode of I Survived. For a full list of our sources visit lgtcpodcast.com any errors are of course ours but please don't take our word for it go read their stuff