Let's Go To Court! - 88: The Durable Michael Malloy & A Mother Who Took Justice Into Her Own Hands

Episode Date: September 25, 2019

Michael Malloy was one tough dude. He was also an out-of-work alcoholic who didn’t have many friends or family. But his apparent poor health and social isolation made him the ideal target for a murderous scheme. A group of sketchy men, later dubbed the “Murder Trust,” took out life insurance policies on Michael. They figured he’d die from alcoholism and they’d cash in. And if they sped up the dying process … who would be the wiser? They tried, and tried, and tried to kill Michael Malloy. Each time, Michael survived, and their attempts got more brazen.  Then Brandi tells us about Ellie Nesler. In the summer of 1988, Ellie’s 7-year-old son, Willie Nesler, begged her to send him to summer camp. Ellie was hesitant, but she took comfort knowing that her friend, Daniel Mark Driver, would be working at the camp that summer. But when Willie returned from camp, something was off. He was withdrawn. He eventually told his aunt that he’d been molested by Daniel. Ellie was determined to make things right. But when the justice system revealed its flaws, Ellie took justice into her own hands.   And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “The Man Who Wouldn’t Die” by Karen Abbott for Smithsonian Magazine “The Durable Mike Malloy” New York Daily News “Doctor on stand denies covering insurance death,” The Daily News “Death certificate of durable Mike convicts doctor,” The Daily News “Four hear doom; ‘Nice day — for some,’ says one,” The Daily News “Officers of murder trust are executed,” by James Cannon for I. N. Service “Four convicted of hard-to-kill Malloy murder,” the Times Union “Four go to chair after five attempts at murder,” by Max Haines for The Ottawa Citizen “Try four as deliberate murderers to get victim’s insurance,” Chicago Tribune “Death demanded for four in $1,800 risk plot murder,” The Daily News In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “William Nesler Still a Fugitive” The Associated Press, CBSNews “Accused Molester is Killed in Court” The Associated Press, The New York Times “Ellie Nesler killed son’s accused molester in courtroom shooting” The Associated Press, The Denver Post “Ellie Nesler: Woman and Myth” by Charles Schwab, SFGate “Woman Gets 10 Years For Killing Son’s Alleged Molester” by Nancy Mayer, The Associate Press “Lasting Effects of Child Molestation” Oprah.com

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about the durable Michael Malloy. And I'll be talking about a mother who took justice into her own hands.

I love justice. Ugh. Ooh. You know what I'm not? I love durability. That's why you drive a Ford. Okay, we've got to talk about something. Yeah, we do.

I don't even know where to start, Kristen. It's too emotional. It is. We got a shout out this week. Okay. Where do we start? Someone, should we find out who in our discord who and emily okay emily in our discord i think that's i know it's like emily

emily ellie ellie got into the discord and she was like my favorite murder just gave you guys a shout out and our immediate reaction was like that can't be right poor emily it's very confused uh she wasn't yeah my favorite murder gave us a shout out we lost our fucking we lost our minds thank god she told us because we both listened to that podcast just stumbled upon that i would have died on the spot i think that's exactly what would have happened so those of you who are long-term listeners to our long-term friendship you probably know this story but let's just tell it one time the reason we started this podcast was because we both fell in love with my favorite

murder we went to a live show we thought it was so much fun yeah and that it was so inspiring that we were like well what if we came up with our own show where we focused on court cases yeah and now like almost two years later i can't even talk about it it's too emotional. It's too emotional. I can't handle it. It's like the thing that you're like, wouldn't it be crazy if this happened one day? And then it fucking happened. It's really cool. Norman is sick of hearing about it.

Norman's so over us right now. And we can barely walk around with these giant heads that we have. Oh, my God. I'm happy for both of you. Thank you, Norm. You're welcome. Who are you happier for? Yeah. Kristen or me equally

it's like picking your favorite child it shouldn't be i'm your wife definitely be your favorite but you both put the work and dedication in the podcast so it's true by the way brandy's sick right now i'm i I'm really, I think I sound worse than I feel. I feel all right. Did we say enough? There's not even enough that we could say about, like, what we're feeling and going through with all of this. We're just so happy. Yeah.

We're so grateful. And for those of you who listened to My Favorite Murder and you decided to give us a shot, thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for checking us out. We hope you enjoy what we're doing here. right kristen take it away okay i've got a fucking nutso story excellent evan emailed me emailed us like i was like wow evan has your personal email personal email evan emailed us like two months ago with this story. And here we go. First of all, my

disclaimer that I do for all old timey cases. Wait, let me see if I can do it. Oh God, okay, yeah, do it. You know, newspapers often have conflicting accounts of this information, so I have done my best to go with the most consistent. But if you read this...

Take the stick out of your ass when you do that impression of me uh but yeah that's that's pretty fair a lot of conflicting stuff out there i went with well i'm just repeating you damn it you know me too well okay it's like we've been friends since the fifth grade it's almost that. So the first part of this comes from basically two really great articles. One is from Smithsonian Magazine called The Man Who Wouldn't Die

by Karen Abbott. And the other is from the New York Daily News and it's called The Durable Mike Malloy. It was July of 1932 in the Bronx, New York. And Francis Pasqua, Daniel Kreisberg and Tony Marino were all hanging out in Tony's speakeasy. Excellent.

And they were scheming. They were all in their mid to late 20s and they were kind of rough guys, which was fitting because America was a rough place. Prohibition was still going on. I was going to say, height of prohibition. Right. They were in the midst of the Great Depression. The unemployment rate was like 50%. Wow.

Yeah. That's terrifying. Everyone needed money. And these guys, they wanted easy money oh these guys these guys here so they looked around the bar and they spotted a man named michael malloy at one time okay different sources had different things one said michael was a former firefighter another said he'd been a stationary engineer which i pictured like hallmark carts no it turns out you just you know you don't move you drive a

forklift or something but now he was out of work and a 50 something year old drunk he didn't seem to have any friends didn't seem to have any friends, didn't seem to have any family, definitely didn't have a job. But there was one thing the men knew for sure. Michael would show up at Tony's speakeasy every morning. He started every day like he'd started the day before. He'd drink and drink and drink until he passed out on the floor.

Oh, goodness. Do you know this story? Not so far. Okay, this is crazy. So Francis and Daniel and Tony were sitting around trying to figure out a way to get some money. And that's when Francis came up with an idea. Don't you think they're probably Frankie and Danny? Yeah, but the articles call them Francis.

I know. I doubt anybody called them Francis or Daniel. I bet it's Frankie and Danny. Yeah, but the articles call them Francis. I know. I doubt anybody called them Francis or Daniel. I bet it's Frankie and Danny. Yeah, but why would you change Anthony to Tony? I don't know. But not change all the others. I don't know. Am I right?

Maybe Tony's name was never Anthony. Maybe his family was like, hey, Tony. No, it was Anthony. Oh, that's weird then. Yeah, get ready for more weirdness. So Francis and Daniel and Tony were sitting around trying to figure out a way to get some money. And that's when Francis came up with an idea. Why don't we take out a life insurance policy on Michael? He's close to dead right now.

Oh my gosh. We could give him a shove in the right direction and badaada-bing, bada-boom, we're rich. Ooh. Can you do that? Can you just take out a life insurance policy on any old person? Well, you know, you might have to make some shit up. Oh, okay. You might have to give him a new name

and make it the same last name as your buddy, and then your buddy can say, this is my brother. I got it. Just for instance Tony and Daniel were like that's not a bad idea quick backstory on our good friend Tony in the previous year he befriended a former hairstylist who was now homeless named Mabel Carson and he was like, hey, Mabel, why don't you get a $2,000 life insurance policy?

Adjusted for inflation, $37,000. Not bad. No. Oh, and oh, by the way, since you and I are such good friends, why don't you list me as the sole beneficiary? And Mabel was just like, sure, okay. Yeah. And then Mabel died. Yeah yeah would you like to hear how she died it was totally natural just no one could have seen it coming um one night after the paperwork was signed tony force fed her alcohol pushed her bed near an open window, stripped her naked, and soaked her sheets with ice water.

What? Obviously, that killed her. You know, it was New York. It was very, very cold. Oh, my gosh. But no one suspected anything. The medical examiner said she'd died of pneumonia. Tony got all that insurance money.

Easy, peasy, lemon, squeezy. Ugh. That's interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of killing someone. Method of killing someone. Yeah. So opened a window and just covered her sheets in water. Made sure she was very, very drunk. I'm sure it was winter time.

Yeah. Yeah. And very, very freezing cold. Yeah. And she died of pneumonia. I'm sure she wasn't in good health. I mean. Wow. Yeah. And very, very naked. Freezing cold. Yeah. And she died of pneumonia. I'm sure she wasn't in good health. I mean. Wow. Yeah.

So Francis and Daniel and Tony, a.k.a. the douchebag trio, were all on board for this plan to kill Michael Malloy for the insurance money. Francis was an undertaker, so he took the lead on the paperwork. But things were, like, more complicated than they bargained for. First of all, Francis had to get some other guy to claim to be Michael's next of kin. So, you know, now we've got another person in the group. And then he had to get another guy to come with him to these meetings with the insurance agencies. So that was another one. And you don't want to rush these things because then it looks suspicious.

So it took five months for Francis to get these three life insurance policies. One was with Metropolitan Life Insurance and the other two were with Prudential. Over time, more and more people bought into the scheme. They had John McNally, Joseph Maloney, and another Tony because one Tony wasn't enough. This guy went by Tough Tony Bastoni. Tough Tony Bastoni? Okay, I'm pretty sure the last E is silent and it's Bastone, but I like Tuftoni Bastoni. That's what I'm doing.

So just to add confusion, in this growing group, we have two Josephs, two Tonys. Excellent. Okay, what could go wrong? Well, there were only like 12 names at that time. It's true. They also had Edward Tin Ear Smith. What's that mean? Okay, he had a fake ear.

Made of tin? Made of wax. Right. Well, then why wasn't he called Wax Ear? I don't, well, that sounds like something different. That sounds like a hygiene issue, don't you think? But can you believe that? A wax ear?

What if it melted? What if it got too hot? Exactly, exactly. Hmm. Disaster. Having so many people involved in this. I can go to the beach. No.

Oh, God. Well, then it's just a wax, right? Then you've got like, no, I mean, like you've waxed your face. Yeah. Having so many people involved in this scheme wasn't exactly ideal. No. Why do you think? So many people. No. People are just gonna be blabbing. ideal. No. Why do you think, Brandi? So many people, no.

People are just going to be blabbing. Right. Yes. People talk. And the other thing is, like, there's only so much insurance money to go around, and we're adding all these people. The pieces of the pie get smaller and smaller.

I don't know if any of you remember fractions from elementary school. I sure do. The more people you've got to share the pie with, the smaller piece you get. So once again, really hard to get an exact figure on what the exact payout was supposed to be. Newspaper articles written at the time all say about $1,800. So I'm going to go with that.

The more recent ones are like, oh, it's way higher. $1,800. Okay. So adjusted for inflation, that's about $35,000 in today's money. But they'd split that up, and by this point, it's going to be like six people. But, you know, again, they're thinking, who cares? It's not a massive amount of money, but it's a good chunk, and it's going to be so fast and so easy.

Because what could be easier than killing an old drunk? So the paperwork is all signed. Everyone's feeling good. Now it's time for phase two of the plan. Tony Marino, the speakeasy owner, told Michael, hey, hey, hey, buddy, my good pal. I am opening up a tab for you. And don't worry about paying me back anytime soon. You know, there's so much competition these days from all these other speakeasies that I got to do what I got to do to entice customers like yourself. So please, by all means, drink to your heart's content. Wow.

Don't let finances hold you back. Oh my goodness. Oh, by the way, hey, hey, by the way, I'm running for city office. Would you like to sign a petition to help elect me? Oh, insurance paper. No, no, no. Brandy,

hey, hey, this is definitely not an insurance paper that Michael was too drunk to read or anything. This was, you know, just his hopes and dreams. Just supporting a friend. Okay. Michael was like, absolutely, I'll sign that and thank you for your hospitality. Tony poured him a shot. Michael kicked it back. He asked for another. And another. And another. Oh no. Too many. It's too many.

It's too many. No. No. Oh wait, he's durable. He's not dying. This went on and on and on until Tony's arm got too tired to hold the bottle. Oh my gosh.

What? Yeah. But Michael was fine. He drank like a fish, but he could still stand. He could still breathe. And after a while, he wiped his mouth,

said thank you so much, and walked out the door to die, presumably. The guys were like, Wiped his mouth, said thank you so much, and walked out the door. To die. Presumably. The guys were like, all right, that was great. Any minute now. Ready for my $800.

Yeah. Well, it'd be more like $400. Yeah, anyway. No money. Bad at math. Sounds like no money to me. Ready for my TJ Maxx gift card. Yes. But Michael didn't die. He showed up

the next day. Ready to do it all again. Yep. Oh my goodness. They went through the same routine. Tony gave Michael more liquor than any human should ever tolerate. And at the end of the day, Michael said thanks so much. Went on his merry little

way. Yep. This continued for three days. By the way, Michael said, thanks so much. Went on his merry little way. Yep. This continued for three days. By the way, guys, that was Brandy tipping her hat to me. I tipped my hat. All the guys in the murder plot were like watching this go down. Like, what the hell? Are we calling it a murder plot or an insurance fraud scheme? Well, they're trying to kill the guy for insurance

they're trying to help him kill himself it sounds like oh um i didn't know you were their defense what would you like me to call them no murder plot's good um i'll call them the insurance fraudsters how about that fraudsters but they like, how has this guy not died already? Yeah. Finally, tough Tony Bastoni, you know, he just has no patience. He's like, I've had enough of this. Let's shoot this guy in the head. Wow.

Won't it be faster if we shoot him in the head? Except then you don't get the insurance payout. They're like, hey, tough Tony, we're not debating that that's the fastest way to kill somebody. It's just that that's super suspicious and we might not get the money we want. Oh, my goodness. The hell back, Tough Tony. Yeah, so the rest of the guys are like, can we keep it natural? Yeah.

They come up with a new plan. Obviously, alcohol just wasn't cutting it. So one of them brought in some new stuff for Michael to try. New what? I bet it was just like a new type of whiskey or some new gin. What? Or like, is it poisoned?

Oh, well, Michael, they're not murderers. They're just insurance fraudsters. Michael drank it and enjoyed it immensely. And then, boom!, dropped to the floor. Oh! The guys were like, whoa, that antifreeze really did the trick! Oh, it was poisoned!

They were thrilled. They dragged Michael's body back to the back of the speakeasy. And then he woke up. And an hour later, Michael walked back out fresh as a daisy. Oh, no! Or yay! I was going to say, I don't know. Whose side are we on?

I guess not the murderers. The guys were like, you are kidding me. Didn't we just kill that guy? Now, remember, America is still in prohibition. And people were dying because a lot of alcohol had been tainted with wood alcohol to make it undrinkable. But what else wood alcohol? I don't know. They add it to like paints and stuff.

It's just it's not stuff you're supposed to drink. And it killed people. It made people go blind. It was really bad. You did not want to drink wood alcohol. Brandy, stop it. Do not drink wood alcohol. So that got the guys thinking. Why not give wood alcohol brandy stop it do not drink wood alcohol so that got the guys thinking

why not give wood alcohol to michael give it to mikey he'll drink anything so at the time people were getting like either dying or going blind from just like alcohol that had been mixed with a bit of wood alcohol. So they just gave it, yeah, straight up. Straight up wood alcohol. That was the plan. Welcome, new people. Sometimes we break into song. The guys were pumped.

This would kill Michael for sure. Soon, they'd get the big insurance payout they'd all dreamed of. So they got some wood alcohol from a paint shop and brought it into the speakeasy. They started Michael off with cheap whiskey. And like once his taste buds were kind of shot, they gave him just the straight wood alcohol. Oh my gosh. Michael drank. And drank.

And drank. And the gang watched. And watched. And watched. And... He got up and left. It was just fine. Nothing really happened. Oh my gosh. Day after day, Tony poured him shot after shot after shot of straight up wood alcohol until finally Michael hit the floor. And then he got up again. He was just fine. The guys were all stunned. Was this it? Was this the moment?

But they'd fallen for that before. They gathered around him. They leaned in. Francis felt for a pulse. And there was one. But it was faint. Michael was close to dying. So they let him lie there.

And a few hours later, he woke up and said, Give me some of the old regular, me lad. The gang was pissed. Oh my goodness. First of all, there were too many people involved. They'd have to split their cut like a million ways. And every month that Michael lived, they had to make another payment on these insurance things. Insurance plans.

Premiums. Thank you. And Michael... Insurance monies. you and michael insurance money plus michael was a very i don't know if you've gotten the vibe very big drinker i heard giving him free alcohol yeah it was not some cheap thing yeah tony's going broke even when you give him wood alcohol that's not free no and weirdly somehow michael seemed better than ever before what okay this this makes me really sad it seemed that having all these free drinks and being with these new friends really made him feel i know i. I know. Oh, that's horribly sad.

I know. But the gang was not going to give up. They gave him turpentine. He survived. Wow. They gave him rat poison. He survived. What the hell?

They soaked raw oysters in wood alcohol. And Michael ate two dozen of them and enjoyed them so much that he told Tony that he should open a restaurant. What? The guys were like, oh, my God, that is it. It's time to get serious. We need to do something. They got a can of sardines. They let it rot.

Then they got, oh, God, this is so gross. They got pieces of jagged metal. One source said that they got like a bunch of pins and mixed it in. So they mix up rotten sardines with shards of metal. What? They take two pieces of bread, spread that stuff in between them, and give it to Michael as a sandwich. And he was just like cool let me eat this um he was drunk as fuck have you ever been drunk as fuck you're gonna eat whatever yeah i suppose i don't know if i'm eating a metal and rotten

sardine well you're not gonna know it's metal um they figured okay this will literally tear his insides to shreds yeah no he was just fine michael ate it he liked it so much he asked for another of course he did at this point it was winter in new york and tony was like hey just brainstorming no bad ideas in brainstorming remember how i killed that one lady? Maybe we could do that again. I got that lady really drunk, left her out in the cold. That did the trick. Maybe it can do the trick for Michael.

So they got Michael drunk. And once he passed out, they drove him to Claremont Park. Okay. One other source said it was. Was there a question mark on the back of that no in the article i didn't have a question but another source said cretona park and i don't know if it's one of those things like in the 30s they called it one thing now they call it another whatever they took him to a park they took his coat and they dumped five gallons of water on him and left him in a snowbank to die.

The next day, he comes walking in to tell me speakeasy. Michael showed up at the speakeasy. He was wearing a new suit. What? And he was like, man, I must have gotten super drunk last night because I woke up buck ass naked in some park. Good thing the police got me and a charity gave me these nice new clothes. Oh my gosh.

This was too damn much. This guy's a legend. No, kidding! The gang was like, alright, enough of this namby pamby bullshit. We've got to kick it up a notch. Kick it into high gear. Oh, that is very fitting for this next part.

Oh, no. Like, maybe offensively so. Oh, no, I swear I don't know what's coming. So they reached out to a cab driver named Harry Green. Shit. And they were like, hey, hey, we will pay you $150 of this insurance money if you um run over someone accidentally hit somebody and harry was like sure so one of the guys got michael good and drunk and took him out to pelham parkway and stood him up in the middle of the road

and harry the cab driver was like like, oh yeah. He gave himself two blocks to build up enough speed to really hit Michael. He wanted to get to like 50 miles an hour. So he zoomed, zoomed, zoomed down the road. But just in the nick of time, Michael stumbled to safety. I was going to say,

he probably just like fell over. Uh-huh. The gang was like, damn it to hell. They were like, okay, regroup, regroup. Same plan, different road. They went to Gun Hill Road. They set Michael in the middle of the road. The taxi driver took off.

Zoom, zoom, zoom. And this time, thud, thud. They hit Michael. But, you know know they weren't taking any chances no no they were not taking any chances they reversed thud thud ran over him again and then they took off because you know they didn't want to be arrested for murder yeah the next day, one of the guys, Joseph Murphy, called up all the local morgues. And he was like, oh, I'm so sad. My beloved brother is missing. I'm terribly worried.

Did he die? It was Keith Morrison's great, great grandpa. Was he all right? Horrifying. And they were like, no, no, good news. No Michael Malloy here. And he was like, oh, I'm so happy. Thank you.

I've never heard better news. No, I'm not crying. better news no i'm not crying by the way in this this is one of those dumb details that i decided not to go into too much but every drink is not in my notes but so for this insurance policy they did take it out in a different name from michael so anyway yeah you know got it blah blah blah okay joseph called local hospitals. Nothing. No, he's just fine. Joseph's going to look up from the phone any second.

He's going to be walking through the door. He checked the newspapers. Nothing. No reports of a fatal car accident. The gang was gathered in the speakeasy going, what the hell happened to Michael's dead body? Norm, is that scary movie? What's that?

Where they do the, I know you did last summer, only the guy's like, I'm not dead. I'm not dead. Scary movie. Like, what should we do? Other dude's like, I'm fine, guys. I'm fine. I'm fine. And they just like keep hitting him. I like that you asked Norman because you knew.

You would have no idea, Kristen. Yeah. And then Michael walked through the door. Of course he did. He did not look great. Okay, because he'd been hit by a car twice. Yeah. But he wasn't dead.

Oh my gosh. He was like, man, oh man, you guys, I got so drunk last night. I don't remember a thing. Woke up in the middle of the street with these tire tracks all over me. All I know is I woke up at Fordham Hospital

and couldn't wait to get a stiff drink. Turns out he gave the hospital staff a different name. That's why it didn't come through in poor Joseph's research. The gang was truly beside themselves at this rate. They were like, why won't you die? I do wonder at what point they were like, okay, we're losing money. So they decided to hire a hitman.

Oh, goodness gracious. I mean, they're going to all make $4 at the end of this thing. Yes. But the hitman wanted $500, which adjusted for inflation was like 10 grand. Well, goodness gracious. Yeah, so they were like. Maybe he heard how difficult it was going 10 grand. Well, goodness gracious. Yeah, so they were like, maybe he heard how difficult it was going to be. So they were just like,

never mind, we can't afford a professional. We have to do this ourselves. But obviously, we suck at killing Michael Malloy. Clearly. So how about this? They stole Michael's ID. They took that ID. They put it in the coat of another drunk.

And then they hit that guy with a cab. And that that ID. They put it in the coat of another drunk and then they hit that guy with a cab. And that guy died. No. That guy lived too? These guys are terrible at killing people. Oh my goodness. That guy was rushed to the hospital and I mean it took two months but he survived

his injuries and of course he was like yeah that ID isn't who I am so oh my gosh but finally on february 22nd 1933 the gang decided that the only way to kill michael was to just straight up yeah murder him yeah they got him super drunk on wood alcohol and then they took him to a room less than a mile away from the speakeasy. They laid him on the floor, put a towel in his mouth, and ran a rubber tube from the room's gaslight into his mouth. And that's how Michael Malloy died.

Afterward, they hired Dr. Frank Manzella to draw up a fake death certificate. According to Dr. Manzella, Michael Malloy had died of pneumonia and complications from alcoholism. Michael didn't have any next of kin, so he was buried right away in, like, you know, the free section of the cemetery. By that point, the men had been trying to kill Michael for more than six months.

Oh, my gosh. Joseph Murphy immediately went and got the $800 from Metropolitan Life Insurance. But that still left those two other policies with Prudential. Yeah. Prudential intended to pay that money out to Joseph. But when they found out that Joseph Murphy was in jail, they looked into it a bit and they were kind of like, huh,

this guy seems kind of like a shady character. Super sketch. And, you know, come to think of it, this whole thing seems kind of shady. Police got involved.

And it didn't take them long to figure out what had happened. Partly because way too many people were involved with this. The professional hitman went around town being like, yeah, you know, those guys tried to hire me to kill Michael, but my rates were too high for them. Then Harry, the cab driver who'd run Michael over, started complaining. They'd never paid him. And he tried his hardest to kill Michael.

Well, I don't think you get paid if you didn't complete the job. Well, I mean, he hit him and then he reversed over him. And then I'm sure he was the same guy who hit that other rando. He didn't kill either of them. Fair. You would be you would be a good mob boss. I prefer Bob Moss. Then police found out about a woman named Betty Carlson.

She had also died of pneumonia in that same speakeasy. And wouldn't you know it? also died of pneumonia in that same speakeasy. And wouldn't you know it, she had a life insurance policy that paid out to one of these douchebags. A lot of people dying of pneumonia in a speakeasy. Yep. And then there was the fact that the story of trying to kill Michael Malloy was just nuts. And you know what people like to do with stories that are just nuts?

Not believe them? No, people like to do with stories that are just nuts? Not believe them? No, they like to tell them. Again and again and again. And there's so many people involved in this. Everybody's telling these stories. Of course. And so everybody knows. Bad news.

District Attorney Samuel Folley was horrified. He was like, that's it. Michael Malloy did not die of pneumonia so they dug up michael molloy's body and it was a sight this man who supposedly died of pneumonia was covered in cuts and bruises he had been run over by a car multiple times well yeah i mean he'd he'd been through hell yeah dr harry Schwartz performed an autopsy, and he determined that Michael Molloy had died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Apparently, everybody drink, because I didn't write this down.

Apparently, when you died that way, it turned your body kind of a different color, so it was very obvious once you saw the body. Yeah. The DA was like, yep, I'm going after these guys. The press dubbed them in the murder trust. Which I think they could have done better. Did that have some kind of ring to it in the 30s? Because I don't know.

Yeah, it really it's lost on me. Yeah. Four of them. Francis Pasqua, Daniel Krasberg, Anthony marino and joseph murphy were all tried together talking about something that would not happen today which naturally was a total shit show yes because so i do want to do a little disclaimer it was very hard to find articles from that time from the actual trial. Don't roll your eyes at me. I did my best.

Newspapers.com did help me here. Okay. For a while, they all tried to blame each other. Yeah. And then when that didn't work out, they tried to plead insanity. It was a mess. Their trial began in October of 1933. District Attorney Sam Foley

told the jury that the men were ruthless killers. He told the jury that the men had tried to kill Michael multiple ways, and that they'd even tried to kill someone else, and that they had ultimately poisoned him with carbon monoxide, all so that they could collect eighteen hundred dollars in insurance money when it came time for the defense to give their opening remarks defense attorney francis mancuso was like yeah i'm good that's okay oh did not give opening remarks i'm wondering if it was

like in this early part of the trial these four were such a show that he was like i'm just gonna figure it out further down the line yeah so don't roll your eyes at me but i did have a hard time finding the list of witnesses for the prosecution and that is a requirement for all episodes i know but i know for certain that the cab driver harry green turned on these guys he played a big role in the prosecution's case he cooperated fully told them everything he knew and i believe with like 99 certainty that another guy joseph malone who also participated in this scheme also agreed to participate with, to cooperate with the DA. Okay. So these two guys from inside the scheme

helped give the prosecution the entire narrative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Prosecution basically had the full story. And they had the autopsy, which showed how Michael had died. Which, by the way, there are still pictures of his body online. Yeah, Michael Malloy.

Look up image search. Malloy is M-A-L-L-O-Y. The one I'm thinking, because I'm Googling and I'm not seeing it. Do the Michael Malloy Wikipedia. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Oh. Describe what you're seeing.

Oh, it's a face. Looks very rough yeah he'd been frantic turn to the turn to the side looks like he's got the hell beat out of him yeah yeah When it came time for the defense to present their case, former judge Francis Mancuso was like, hey, hey, some of these witnesses for the prosecution, they're pretty sketchy. Am I right? You can't trust these characters. That's a good strategy.

They were involved in a murder plot. Yeah. Can't trust them. It's actually a good strategy. I mean, this is the strategy. I think it is tried and true. Every defense attorney, anytime one of the sketchy people, like, agrees to snitch, then they're like, well, you can't trust them.

Yeah. And hey, by the way, there seems to be a big misunderstanding here. We've got these four guys on trial for murder but they didn't want michael malloy to die i think they did because they took out a life insurance policy on him and that only gets paid out if he is dead no brandy brandy you you have been listening to the prosecution side of the story you are totally biased let me tell you the truth. Okay. You see, the person who wanted to kill Michael Malloy was this really mean guy named Tough Tony Bastoni. Oh.

And Tough Tony just ordered these boys around. He was the gun-toting boss. And any time any of these guys were like, no, we don't want to kill anybody, Tough Tony would be like, tough cookies. If you don't do what I say, I'll kill you. You know who really ought to be on trial here? Tough Tony Bastoni.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If there were any justice in the world, that is what would be happening. Okay. But he was murdered last spring so he can't defend himself and he was uh murdered by joseph who was yeah yeah okay yeah you know him

yeah so the defense said that he was murdered by joseph maglione who was mad that he hadn't gotten his part of the insurance payout for this scheme. Yeah. All right. So, jury, why don't you just take my word for it? The big bad guy is gone, and these other guys who just got into it were like, whoopsies, mixed up in a little scheme. Their roles were very minor.

Okay, thank you. Goodbye. But the prosecution was like, how about you give them the death penalty? Find them guilty, and let's get these guys on death row today. What do I have to do to get you on death row today? The jury went into deliberation and found them... Guilty and sentenced them all to death. Not guilty because they were like, man, that tough Tony.

No! They of course found them guilty. Of course. I feel like in that day and age, it was like even if they had the slightest inkling that they might have been involved, they were like, yeah, we better just kill them. Oh, yeah.

They were killing everybody. Wait till we get to a later portion in this. I mean, the speedy trial, the speedy everything in the 30s. I mean, nothing dragged out then. The judge said, have the defendants anything to say before being sentenced? Ready for something weird? Yeah.

Daniel Krasberg spoke. He said, it's a nice day for some people. What? Yep. What a weird statement. Really makes you think. Really makes you think. That's deep, man.

Whoa, man. And then the four men were sentenced to death. Okay. In June of 1934, the four men were scheduled to die by electric chair. That surprised me. I thought they were still hanging in the 30s. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.

They had the electric chair. I mean, yeah. Well, I know they had it. Yeah. Supposed to be more humane. Freaking, what's his butt? I have no idea who you're talking about. Gordon Northcott was hung, and that was in the 30s.

Who was Gordon Northcott? He killed, that was in the 30s. Who was Gordon Northcott? He killed, that was the chicken coop murders. Oh. Oh, yeah, that was, oh, and he hung there for a long time. Yikes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Four hours before they were scheduled to die, New York Lieutenant Governor William Bray stepped in. He said that Joe Murphy, the bartender, should be spared the death penalty for two weeks. Why? Okay, so I feel like this will be obvious, but I'm just going to say it so we don't get hate mail. I am obviously quoting from an old timey article

when I give you this explanation. Okay. Okay, we clear? Big Joe had a child's brain. Oh no. He was clumsy and dim-witted. Oh no. He was merely a puppet of the evil trinity.

Oh my goodness. So I'm gonna translate that into what I think was going on. I think they had to decide, was he... Competent. Yeah. Yes. To understand, like, was he deemed mentally competent to understand what was going on and aid in his own defense.

Exactly. That's how we would frame it today. Back then, he was clumsy, dim-witted. The brain of a child. Oh, no. And I guess they were going to figure that out in two weeks. So the two weeks, the three guys die. Oh, so they're like, okay, great.

Fry him one, two, three. We'll wait on Joe. Okay. Yes. God god that is gross i pictured them like eggs okay oh gosh so then you know then it's joe's time again and again the governor stepped in and he got another two weeks why i mean that's why I wish I could have found more on these guys individually. Because, I mean, if in the 30s they were like, hey, you seem like maybe you don't really understand. You don't get it, yeah.

Then he for sure didn't get it. Yeah. Right? Yes. Right? But ultimately, they decided that Joe was, you know, sane enough for the state to murder him, which I don't know. You know how I feel about the death penalty. And a month after the other men were put to death, so was Joe.

Wow. Again, that was in 1934. I mean, it was just like lickety split back then. They wasted no time. No time at all. I mean, God forbid you were an innocent person. Oh, yeah. Too late for that.

But we're not done here. Dr. Frank Manzella was the guy who they paid to falsify Michael's death certificate. He wrote that Michael had died of pneumonia and the effects of alcohol abuse. So this was actually a pretty big scandal because Frank was a former alderman. And he at least appeared to have been fairly well respected in the community until this point he was charged with failing to report a suspicious death and accessory after the fact yeah girl wow he was facing almost three years in prison wow at his trial frank took the stand in his own defense

he denied that the men had promised to pay him 150 in exchange for signing the death certificate he said he'd just done his job and that that's what he truly believed yeah bullshit okay well then you're a shitty doctor buddy yeah like Yeah, like the shittiest doctor. The press noted that he appeared... This is how they wrote about it. So, when he took the stand, every article I read said that he appeared short, fat,

and nervous on the stand. Well, what the hell? Oh, no! Did he not appear short and fat on the stand? He was tall and lanky until he got up there on the stand. He just got real bloated. As if he melted into a puddle. These old timey articles. They do not hold back.

No, they will roast you. That's exactly right. Got him. Once again, the cab driver. I'll go quickly through his trial. Once again, the cab driver, Harry Green, made an appearance. Harry Green did have to do time, but obviously he got a much lighter sentence. He was not put to death because he cooperated.

That is much lighter. Because he cooperated in the previous trial and this one, too. Randy. He got a much lighter sentence. He was not put to death.ry was like yep that's the doctor that's the sketchball can't trust him joseph maglione stood up and he was like yep i was involved here's the whole story yep dr manzella was involved he's super sketch ultimately the jury found him guilty of failing to report a suspicious death but they

acquitted him on accessory after the fact which yeah i don't think that's too surprising yeah okay now here's here's the annoying thing he was sentenced to three months to three years in prison yeah i noticed that's how they used to say it yeah i think what that means is three months unless you like really fuck up big time yeah so that's the story of the many murder attempts on mike malloy in the 30s this story fascinated people it continues to fascinate people he was nicknamed iron man mike the durable andable, and the Irish Rasputin. Who knows how long he would have lived if these shitheads hadn't intervened. No kidding.

Can you believe that story? No, that's nuts, all that they did to him. Yeah, horrible. Poor guy. It made me just feel really bad for him. The part about him kind of rallying because he felt like he had a community. I really wish he would have survived everything. Well, yeah. That would have made the story even crazier.

Oh, yeah. It would have been great. Oh, yeah. All right, are you ready to hear about some justice? I fucking love justice let me tell you that i watched a really terrible and forced david to watch a really terrible made for tv movie about this case last night no yes what channel lifetime uh no it was made it was made for usa ew i didn't even know it was terrible it was made in 1999 it's available on youtube um it was terrible

is david breaking up with you i think it might be the end of our relationship it's like i can't handle this i cannot handle this okay uh and bear with me on my voice i apologize no excuses it was the summer of 1988 and ellie nessler finally felt as if she had her life back on the right track. From a tumultuous childhood to a young marriage that ended quickly in divorce, things had not been easy for Ellie. Her second marriage to a gold miner named Bill had turned her life into a much happier one, a much happier direction. The couple, living in the Gold Rush area of California, near San Francisco, welcomed a son. They named him after his father and called him Willie.

Or Will. Or Bill. Or Billy. Whatever, they called him all kinds of stuff. Or maybe even Brandon. I don't fucking know because every article calls him something different. Brandon? They called him Brandon in the made for TV movie.

But they called her her real name. So I don't fucking know. Okay. For the purposes of this story, I am going to call him Will. Okay, great. When Will was still a young child, the family decided to move to Liberia, Africa, in hopes of better opportunities in gold mining. Oh, wow. Yeah. While there, the family welcomed a daughter named Rebecca.

But when the Civil War broke out in Liberia in 1989, the family decided it was no longer a safe place for the children. So Ellie packed up Will and Rebecca and moved back to California, leaving their father, her husband, back in Africa. Back in California, Ellie struggled to make ends meet for her little family. It seems to me that they stayed married and that Bill, the father, would just kind of like check in every now and again, come visit or whatever. But they were essentially living their own life, the three of them, in California. Was this meant to be a temporary thing? Like'll stay here i don't know okay i don't

really know anyway so she's struggling to make ends meet she ends up she works hard she works you know takes a job works really hard has to get some state assistance whatever and she gets super involved in her church and that was kind of like the the thing that really set her life right in her mind was getting involved in this church um and with that she and her family became super close with this guy who volunteered with the church was involved in the ministry and whatever and his name was daniel driver or danny as most people called him and he became like a very close personal friend of the Nestlers. He would help Ellie with stuff around the house that she couldn't take care of herself.

He was really gifted with cars. He'd come over and do, you know, repair work on her car for her. When Ellie felt like she was really struggling in her faith, he would sit and pray with her. was really struggling in her faith he would sit and pray with her um he was just really a person for her to lean on and um and rely on and she really needed that person she had a i believe it was her sister that lived nearby um they really refer to her um in all of these news stories and in the made for tv movie as as will's aunt so i'm assuming it was her sister but i'm not positive okay so the two families were close and spent a lot of time together but this this danny was the person that she relied on a lot summer of 1988. Will is like six or seven at this point. And he begs Ellie to let him go to this church summer camp. He wants to go so bad. He just wants to get away, go have fun, do all these fun

activities with his friends. But it's a two week overnight camp. And Ellie's like, no, I won't be able to handle you being away that long. Nor do I think you'll be able to handle being away from home that long. Like, think about that at like seven years old being away from home for two weeks. So I used to. I know you used to work at church camps. Did you guys do overnights for that young? So the church camp i worked at was just a week but a summer camp i worked at in the berkshires it was six weeks and we had kids as

young as six years old i can't imagine that i can't either i just cannot imagine it i think it's like i think it's almost like a a cultural thing or it's just like what you're used to because the you know there are a lot of people who like that's just like what you're used to because the you know there are a lot of people who like that's just their thing they send the kids to summer camp for six weeks every summer the kids love it yeah it's just like yeah it's just a way of life so ellie's set in her way she's like absolutely you're not going to this camp but will will not give it up and so he goes and talks to Danny about it. And so Danny sits Ellie down.

He's like, listen, I'm going to be at that camp. I volunteer with the camp as well. It's associated through the church. Like, I'm going to be there. He's going to be fine. And so Ellie's like, all right, fine, Will. You can go. And it's like the best day of Will's life. He gets to go to this two-week sleepaway camp that he he's gonna have the time of his life whatever he goes to camp and things

are great he's swimming every day he's playing outside he's singing bible songs you know whatever it's he has the time of his life yeah when he comes back ellie is overjoyed to see him she has missed him he's written letters like here and there but nothing consistent so when she sees him for the first time she's shocked that he's in like this terrible mood and he just like walks past her and goes into the house and like doesn't do like the big reunion thing nothing this kid that comes home from camp is not the same excited little boy she sent away oh no what the fuck happened at the camp so things go on like this for a long time will withdraws he's uh moody he yells a lot he fights with his mom he's mean to his sister behavior that he never exhibited before in school he's asked to draw like his favorite thing that

he did that summer and like he draws this really dark depressing picture while everybody else is you know drawing people swimming and whatever and so people are noticing that something is going on with will he was molested at the camp for sure kristin for sure anyway ellie tries to tell herself that it's just like a phase that will's going through and you know he'll grow out of it. And, you know, she talks to Danny about it, the family friend, and tells him that she just doesn't know what's going on. Maybe he can talk to Will. And so Danny starts taking Will on these little outings. And it's weird because Will doesn't ever seem to want to go.

Oh, no. No, Brandy. And then it's just not getting any better. No. And Ellie's like, I just don't know what to do, Danny. And she confides in him that she's sure that something has happened to her son. And he says, and so Danny says to her, you know, let's just pray on it. And so they sit there at Ellie's kitchen table together over the Bible, and they pray for God to intervene and take care of her son. And God strikes Danny dead. So almost a year has gone by at this point with this weird behavior with Will. He's so withdrawn. You know, nobody knows what's going on

with him. And then one night, he's having a sleepover at his aunt's house. And he's acting super weird. And so the aunt sits down with him and she's like, you gotta tell me what's going on. Yeah. And he finally admits to her that he was was he was molested at the summer camp oh bye danny yeah and so he's like please don't tell anyone i don't want anyone to know that this happened to me and she she's heartbroken and she's like i'm sorry but some secrets i can't keep like we have to tell yeah we have to tell people that this happened to you and he's so embarrassed he doesn't want anyone to know what happened to him well that

shit had probably said something like if you tell anyone then exactly i'll have to kill your mom i'll have to kill your sister not only was he embarrassed he was terrified because daniel driver had told him if you tell anyone i will kill your mother yeah which is what a shit which is why whenever Danny would be like come on we're gonna go run errands together he would go even though he didn't want to because he was terrified if he didn't do what he would say yeah that he would hurt his family of course yeah and so Yeah. And so Will's aunt takes him to Ellie and they sit down and Will tells Ellie what happened to him. He was molested and he was sodomized by this man. six or seven years old ellie is just completely torn apart by it and she she um consoles will and says you know i i know exactly what this is like this happened to me when i was a little kid and when i told someone they said well it happens oh god and she's like i'm not gonna do that to you

we're going to the police and will is super reluctant he's like, I'm not going to do that to you. We're going to the police. And Will is super reluctant. He's like, I don't want to go to the police. I don't want anyone to know that this happened to me. Yeah. And she said, we have to go to the police because you have to help keep this from happening to some other little kid. And so Will agrees. And they go and they tell police exactly what has happened. And that's when Ellie finds out that this is not the first instance.

There's two other kids from that same camp making these same claims. Oh, my God. Against Daniel Driver. five years earlier in 1983 he'd taken like a he'd gotten off with probation from a molestation charge what the hell yes because he had all of these character witnesses come forward and say what a great guy he was and all this great work he did with the church and all of this stuff he got off with probation and then was allowed to volunteer at a church camp do people not ask themselves hmm why why might a child molester be volunteering for this yeah maybe it's not because they're such a good person right maybe it's because they're trying to get around kids

maybe they're trying to get into a trusted position yes exactly so okay i'm sorry i'm sorry go ahead but you ever you know what drives me crazy what on episodes of to catch a predator uh-huh where they're where they're like and you'll never guess what he does for a living oh yeah the answer is always he's an elementary school teacher he's a school bus driver yeah and so it's like no that is 100% what i would guess a child molester would do for a living yeah it's not what i want them to do for a living but like this this notion that like oh well they can't be there because that's where the kids are right no that's exactly why they're there yes yes so will has done you know the thing he never wanted to do he's had to tell all of these people this horrible thing that happened he feels so ashamed yeah by it and there's a

major problem moving forward with charges what no one knows where daniel is. He's fled town. And he would remain on the run for three years. Finally, they arrest him for shoplifting in some town not that far from this area near San Francisco where the Nestlers live. And they end up bringing him back. And in 1993, he is his trial here he's facing the charges they're actually um in april it's april 2nd 1993 is a preliminary hearing okay where um they're gonna see if they can move forward with a jury trial so as they're setting up for that moving moving towards that, Will and Ellie sit down with, like, the prosecution. And she's like, I don't want him to have to get on the stand in front of Danny. He's not going to be able to handle that.

And they're like, well, sorry, he's going to have to. Damn. And she's trying, like, she asked them if they could set up a camera so that he can testify somewhere else. Like, which is super common now. I was going to was gonna say yeah i guess at the time was not super common they're like no sorry this is what he's gonna have to do so as it's like nearing this good lord too bad for victims right no kidding right and they're like we don't stand a chance of being able to if he can't testify we don't stand a chance of being able to move forward with charges and then if he can't testify at trial we don't stand a chance of being able to convict him this all lays on your little now 10 year old shoulders no pressure kid yeah so as they're like it's you know early 1993

they're moving towards this april 2nd date and will is getting sick every day of course he's every day he's like this little ball of stress. By this time, Ellie has had to quit her job and pull him out of school and like homeschool him because he can't handle even the idea that someone might find out what has happened to him. Like he's so filled with shame over it, which is just like the worst thing ever

because this poor little kid didn't ask for this. Like it's just heartbreaking. Yeah. That that would be what you think. Like, I can't handle somebody knowing that this happened to me because of what they'll think about me. Yeah. Ellie fights with the prosecutor on this. It's like, he's absolutely not going to be able to do that.

You need to figure something else out. And Will's like, yeah, no, I can't do it. I can't do it. And they're like, well, if you can't do it, we can't move forward with these charges. And so Will agrees that he's going to get up there and testify. And so April 2nd, 1993 comes around. And Will is just beyond sick.

The whole courtroom is full of people. The hearing is underway. And Ellie Nessler is called to the stand to do her preliminary testimony and talk about how she found out what had been going on and how close danny driver had come come to their family and as she is called to the stand she reaches over into the aunt's purse and pulls out a small pistol and as she's walking up to the stand she shoots daniel driver in the head five times and kills him shut up no way in the courtroom no shoots him and kills him in the courtroom oh my god yeah she got five shots? Five shots. How'd she get a gun in there? They didn't have any metal detectors and nobody was searched before entering the courtroom.

Wow. Yeah. He died instantly. Well, sure. Yeah. Five shots will do it. Yeah. And she said, when she was taken into custody she said he deserved to die

maybe i'm not god but i'll tell you what i'm the closest damn thing to it for all the other little boys my little boy can help hold his head up now he doesn't have to be afraid of danny wow yeah people who were in the courtroom that day said that you would expect someone who has just killed someone to kind of like shrivel up and not you know be in like shock over what they did yeah i said that's not how ellie nessler reacted she stood up and she walked out of there with her head held high, proud that she had taken justice into her own hands. Oh, my God. When the news of this spread, so we're talking April of 1993, the news of this spread throughout the United States, Ellie Nessler was seen as a folk hero.

Mom who took care of her, like this, like Mama Bear who took care of her baby cub no matter what happened you know she wasn't and she said she felt that the justice system wasn't going to take care of her son and that there was no way he was going to be able to get up there and testify and that they told her that was the only way they'd get a conviction so she just had to take care of it herself okay how are you feeling about this gosh i mean i know it's i'm so torn because obviously you don't want to see somebody murdered but i i think there's a lot of parents that could see themselves in that same exact position. You hurt my kid, I'll hurt you. Yeah. Well, and especially when you hear, he's done this before. Yeah.

Nothing happened. Yeah. My son is expected to be more brave than, I mean, than almost anybody. And for what? Maybe nothing. Yeah. almost anybody and for what maybe nothing yeah so when she became this folk hero like all of these donations poured in for her defense fund because she was arrested and she was charged i don't know if she was charged with second degree murder or um i think it was second degree murder and

oh that's smart taking the the gun out of sister's purse, because if you bring it yourself, then that's first degree. So this would become a big thing. So that would be the big thing at her trial. So her trial took place in October of 1993. But before her trial, I'm sorry, her trial began in January of 1994. In October of 1993, Ellie was actually diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer wow and around that same time it came out that on the day that she shot daniel driver in court she was under the influence of methamphetamines oh she said that the stress of everything that she had been going through and

trying to figure out what was going on with her son and trying to protect her son she had turned to meth to help her deal with all of it and so she was high on meth the day that she wow shot him in the courtroom yeah so all of those people that were like hailing her as this folk hero kind of like silently like well okay yeah so in january of 1994 her trial began and the prosecution tried to argue kind of exactly what you said that this was not an in the heat of the moment thing this was premeditated yeah they pulled up they um had a bunch of people testify that said that they had heard ellie say before you know if the justice system doesn't take care of them i'm going to take care of them and the i believe it was like the one of the prosecutors that she had made a

statement to something to the effect of of course i didn't put this in my notes. Oh, everybody drinks. Something to the effect of you better get him to take a deal. If he doesn't take a deal, I'm just going to blow him away. But see, I wonder how many parents say that kind of thing. Exactly. Yeah, I don't think that that's enough to prove premeditation. No. And neither did the jury. Wow.

She was convicted and sentenced to 10 years in prison she had asked for leniency because she at that time her doctor had given her a prognosis of about five years to live with her breast cancer yeah her her defense team had said that a lengthy sentence would be a death sentence for her and to and ask the jury to take that into consideration and so they had sentenced her to 10 years which would would essentially be a death sentence for her yeah um with that aggressive breast cancer that she had so she went to jail and she's you know went to prison and was serving her sentence. And then in October of 1997, after several appeals, her conviction was overturned. Wow. On what grounds?

Based juror misconduct. No. What'd they do? So it's really hard to find. I found one article that said basically one juror was tainting the other jurors and by making these weird comments so basically during jury deliberations this one juror would be like well whenever somebody would say you know you know well you know we have to consider you know the pressure she was under or whatever you know what what any parent would do in a situation like this and this one juror would be like well you know if you knew

about her what i know about her but you know I can't take that pre-existing information into consideration. Bullshit. Yeah, you can't say that. Yeah, you can't say stuff like that. So the person wouldn't come out and say what it is that they knew about her, but they'd be like, well, if you knew better,

what I know about her. Yeah, and then everyone's like, oh gosh, well, they obviously have insider information, so maybe we should go with them. So it was deemed jury misconduct. Her conviction was overturned. And in 1997, she took a plea deal.

She pled guilty to manslaughter and got off with time served. So she served just under four years at that point. Did, okay. It's probably impossible to know this, but did that other juror actually know her in any way? I don't know. I don't know. I wondered that too. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know i don't know i wondered that too yeah yeah i don't know probably not probably not right yeah i mean if her attorneys had known of any kind of connection she wouldn't have made the jury yeah exactly exactly so yeah

so she got off with time served and got out um she was released in 1997 after serving just under four years. Wow. Mm-hmm. Things were not going well for the Nestlers, though. Will had grown up and he'd been carrying around this stigma of having this horrible thing that happened to him. In his inner life, he'd spent a lot of time in and out of jail for different, you know, misdemeanors. And he'd been convicted of some felonies. Ellie kind of wound up right back into drugs when she got out of prison. She, actually, outlived her prognosis because by October of 2001, she was still alive and in fairly good health by that

point. But she was heavily into methamphetamines at the time. And she ended up giving meth to like a, an informant of some kind. Oh, and then a few days later, she bought like 10,000 tablets of what I would guess is pseudoephedrine, a drug that's used to make meth from that same informant. And then she was arrested and sent to jail for possession and intent to sell, I believe. And in 2002, she pled guilty to those charges and was sentenced to six years in prison. Wow. Don't you think that's crazy? Yes.

Yes, the drug laws in this country are crazy. The drug charge in contrast to the murder. Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that nuts? In 2004, by this time, Will is 23.ie's in prison for the drug charges will gets into some kind of altercation with this guy who lives on the same property that will does like there's i think multiple houses on this property maybe this guy owns it and will lives in like a smaller house

on the same property this guy's name is david davis um which is not a very nice name no um but they get into some kind of scuffle and the man believes that will has stolen some of his tools and will beats the shit out of him oh god um in front of three deputies because like the guy had called the police because he was like this guy still like the confrontation had started you're stealing my tools no i'm right i think i was like fine i'm just gonna call the police the police sometime in the middle of this scuffle the police show up and will is beating the shit out of this guy in front of three police officers well there you go so they arrest him and he pleads guilty to battery and receives um like a 60-day jail stint serves like a 60 day jail stint serves like a little around 30 days. Uh huh.

One hour after he is released. What? He goes to David Davis's house. No, kills him and kills him. This, this is nuts. He stomped his head in.

David Davis lost consciousness and died the next day. Oh, God. Yeah. Will was charged with first degree murder and is now serving 28 years to life on those charges. So the whole family was interviewed on Oprah. Really? That's where a bunch of this information comes from. Yeah, it was when Ellie was in prison.

It was before Will's charges. They actually did a comes from yeah it was when ellie was in prison it was before will's charges they actually did a follow-up after yeah yeah charged too so there's kind of different parts of it i watched multiple segments but he said that losing his family had a bigger impact on him than the molestation did and it wasn't until he was older that he realized that that was the thing that was really impacting him. Because his at the time that his mother was sent to prison, he and his sister were separated. One was sent to live with an aunt and one was sent to live with a grandparent. Yeah. So they grew up apart. They grew up apart from their mom.

And it was just had a huge impact on his life. Yeah makes that makes complete sense to me yeah i think in those situations that's why you don't murder the molester yeah so that you can be there be there with your kid yep so by june anyone is considering murdering their molester their child's molester yeah i mean i i think i can respect the um the urge to do that to make that person pay yeah i mean yeah and i'm not gonna shed a tear over the child molester i'm not either no um although i guess he's an alleged molester he was never convicted because he was murdered before he could be but you don't run you don't go on the run for three years for no reason. Yeah.

Um, so by June of 2006, when Ellie was released from prison on the drug charges, Willie was already in for his first degree murder conviction. So they just like, they, they just, it affected their whole lives. All of these events, like they just had this huge, just like ripple effect on their family for their whole lives.

And I wonder what they were really like before. Yeah, I mean, absolutely. God, that story is absolutely nuts. I've never heard that story before. So in December of 2008, Ellie died of breast cancer at 56 years old. Will asked for like a temporary pass to attend her funeral and it was denied. Yeah. For Oprah, Dan Abrams actually did a segment on the Nestler family.

So I don't know if you know who Dan Abrams is. He's actually now the host of Life PD. But he was like a reporter for some couple of different news networks over the years. And so he did a segment where he took Rebecca to prison to visit Will. They hadn't seen each other in two years, but they wrote a ton of letters. They constantly wrote letters back and forth to each other because essentially they're the only family that they have anymore. I don't know what ended up happening with their dad over the years yeah i'm curious about that too but he said when they saw each other it was it was as if they

they'd never been apart they picked up a conversation like they had just seen each other yesterday. So the connection was just like undeniable. So Will is in prison and he will become eligible for parole in 2031. Yikes. That's the story of Ellie Nessler, one mother who took justice into her own hands. Yeah. Oh God. Norman, I'm hoping you've got some questions that'll lighten things up a bit i do have questions oh good okay so first let's let's talk a little bit every week norman asks

the folks in our discord if they want to ask us some questions and if you're wondering my god how do you get in the discord is this like a 90s chat room i want to the Discord? Is this like a 90s chat room? I want to go to there. It is like a 90s chat room. It's amazing. And you can join as well. All you have to do is become a patron. That's all you gotta do. Go to Patreon.com.

That's Patreon.com slash LGTCpodcast. And to get into the Discord, you have to sign up at the $5 or $7 level. $5 level gets you bonus episodes plus access to the discord seven dollar level gets you a shout out on this podcast plus a sticker plus all those other benefits i mean it's just it's too good to be true except it's not it is true you'd be a fool not to sign up. That's exactly right. Do you want to be a fool? I pity the fool. I was waiting. I was like there's no way she's not

going to do a Mr. T impression. I pity the fool. He doesn't sign up for the Patreon. You'd be a huge point of sale if you did not sign up. P.O.S. Norman's harshest insult. P.O.S. I got some questions for you ladies.

Do it. Excellent. Joseph, his question is simply, hashtag SharaeRayLGTC2019? Oh! We asked. Okay, so my dad loves coming on the podcast. He's convinced he's a celebrity now. Yes. People have asked if my mom would come on.

My mom is not interested. Not in the least bit. I mean, that's just not her thing. Not her. She's not going to get on any stage. She will help you set up the stage. Oh, my gosh. And she'll have that stage so clean for you.

She'll have snacks and drinks on stage. More drinks than anyone could ever consume. Uh-huh. But no, she's not getting on the stage, folks. Never. If we need a nice refreshments table set up backstage, she will man that, and she will man the hell out of it. Yes.

Jen wants to know, which case would you never cover? Ooh. I've got one in mind. But I might cover it it is the thing. Okay. So I'm tempted to say OJ. Yeah. Because it's huge.

It's been done a million times. But at the same time, I do love that trial. I find it so intriguing. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good one. I think that might be my answer, too. There's another one that comes to mind. It's the George Zimmerman case, just because it's too infuriating. I don't think I could handle it.

Yeah, that's one I had our patrons vote on. I know, and I was so glad it didn't win. I would have walked out. Yeah, it was either Timothy McVeigh or George Zimmerman. I was prepared to cover either one, but they were like, no, Timothy McVeigh. They were like, we can't handle George. Can't handle it. I'd love to see you two cover the Nuremberg trials.

Oh my gosh. What? No more. I like World War II history. I know you do, but that is just... It's way too dark. International law. It's interesting stuff. Okay. Moving on. It's interesting stuff. Okay.

Moving on. Figgly gigs. That's Kim. Figgly gigs. That's my friend Kim. Kim wants to know, if you could learn the truth behind an unsolved case, but once you do,

you can't tell anyone, which case do you pick. Okay. I know what you're thinking. I was tempted to answer Jean Benet. Right. But I already know the truth. Well, you think you know.

Nope, I know the truth. So I will instead change my answer to the Black Dahlia. Oh, yeah. A historical case would probably be a good choice. Because it would kill you if, like, everyone was still around. Exactly. Nobody involved in that would still be alive or anything, so. Yeah.

Okay, give me the rule one more time. We can't do anything about it? You know the truth, but you cannot tell anybody. Oh. Okay, now that's interesting. So, in theory, with this question, we could have figured out who the Golden State Rapist was and then gone and killed him.

Ooh. But then would you just be convicted of murder? Are you advocating for murder on the LGTC podcast? No, I'm not, but I'm just saying that's something you could do. You just can't tell anybody. What if you could find out if OJ really did it he did it i mean i don't that's a waste what a waste i think he wrote a book about if i did it yeah there is in the title yeah the goldmans were the ones who required, redesigned that cover.

I There are so many. I'm so nosy. I love this question. I think Hang on, let me think real quick. Isabella Stewart Gardner. No one cares about your art then. That is not true. there was a whole podcast

about it people loved it I was not the only one listening to that that is a fascinating story with a bunch of art they can't offload and I want to know where yeah what if oh wait okay okay in accordance with the rules of this question

I could find out who stole the paintings and maybe find out where they are. Maybe. I don't know how much information I get. And then steal them? You love a good art heist. Yeah. Then I could go take the paintings.

Yeah, because what are they going to do? Call the police? Exactly. And then you come over and in my living room, there's a Rembrandt. It's the Rembrandt seascape. And then you can decide whether it's stupid okay i'd be like what'd you do get that at an estate sale yeah and i'd be like sure brandy you don't know hey cool story kristin shut up it is cool all right i'm gonna sandwich in a somewhat serious question oh sandwiching in. This is from Nino.

Hey, Nino. Hey. I've heard Kristen mention that she doesn't support capital punishment. I'm not sure of Brandy's opinion. Can we hear the explanation from both on their reasoning? I also don't support it, but I'm curious to hear their thoughts. I know it can be a touchy subject. Thank you.

Let's touch ourselves as we talk about this touchy subject. So I am undecided. I, okay, so my thoughts are what the hell happens if you execute someone that you aren't, that was innocent? Like that's the worst thing that could happen. So that's why i'm undecided on it i guess if there was enough dna evidence and you could prove that this person had i don't know killed eight million babies plus puppies like then maybe i'd be pro death penalty for that specific person but in general i cannot say that i'm pro death penalty yeah so my reasoning my reasoning is, first of all, I don't think it makes sense. I don't think that killing people is a way to teach people not to kill. Yeah. But

really, my bigger issue with it is that when you look at who we kill, it's more often than not, poor black men. Yeah, absolutely. And that's not justice to me. Yeah. It's funny. If we came up with a system where it was like, okay, you were, you know, there was DNA, you know, the whole deal. You killed 15 people. You had the best defense attorney.

And even still, we know for sure you did this. And then you got the death penalty. I don't think I would have as much of an issue with it i still think it wouldn't make sense but like i have a real issue with the fact that it just seems like in this country if you don't have the money for a good defense well yeah that plays your screw that plays your race plays into it absolutely yeah let me throw out a scenario. Yeah. Okay. A guy, somebody murders somebody.

Okay. Okay. They go to the police. They're like, yep, I did it. There's evidence they did it, so they're not lying. Yeah. You 100% killed this person. He is given the death penalty.

Mm-hmm. Is that fair? Unfair? I mean, I don't believe in the death penalty, so... I don't know, yeah. But I'm saying based on your reasoning for why you don't believe, it doesn't seem like that would qualify i guess i guess i guess if they were

like hey i 100 did it and i'm requesting the death penalty they're not requesting it they're just saying yep i killed this guy well a lot of people admit to it yeah that doesn't mean that i think they should be put to death i just don't think that in in a just society that's the way we need to handle these things Okay But see I think that's maybe where I'm getting muddled with my messages that first of all my big thing is in a just society I don't think there's any place for it I don't think we need to kill people

I think prison for life is fine Okay But And actually less expensive than the death penalty Yeah actually less expensive than the death penalty. Yeah, much less expensive than the death penalty. Which is very interesting. Well, yeah, because of the appeals process. I think the assumption is that it would be way cheaper

to kill somebody, but it's definitely not. Probably in the 30s it was, when like a month after your trial they killed you. But with the appeals process and everything, no, it's much more expensive to keep someone on death row. Yeah, so I think overall I'm, it's much more expensive to keep someone on death row. Yeah, so I think overall, I'm not... Or much more expensive to... Sorry, you said death row, never mind.

Overall, I think it's bad, but I think it's super bad when you factor in the fact that when you look at who's on death row, it's not like a diverse array of people from all different socioeconomic backgrounds. No. From all different socioeconomic backgrounds. Nope. So, Brandi, your reasoning is you would hate to see somebody innocent be put to death. Absolutely. So it's not worth the risk.

Yeah. And, Kristen, your reasoning is that a just society should not kill people. Yeah. Okay. Good question from Nino. Yeah. Sorry, the Debbie Downer question. No, that was a good question. That was a good question from nino yeah yeah sorry the debbie downer question no that's a good question question yeah uh mike has an interesting question okay well i'm gonna you know sandwiching i sandwiched in the serious one we're back to some goofy ones no good you have sardines in this

sandwich if you had to choose between getting 100 a day deposited into your bank account or being able to poop an unlimited number of dimes. Which do you choose? I'm taking the $100 a day. Yeah, that's way easier. I don't know about this question.

Who would know? I mean, because essentially you could poop out way more than that, but you're nothing but pooping? You're shitting dimes. You could poop out $1,000 a day. That sounds painful. How long are you going to be on the toilet? It could be very painful.

You've got to sift it out. No, thank you. And then you've got to clean it all up. And then that poor banker. I'm going $100. I'm chilling. They're going to hate you at CoinStar. Gumming up their machines.

Right. And then you have all these dimes. What do you do with them? I'm chilling at home. I'm just knowing I get 100 bucks. Just $100 a day. Yeah. I'm taking that.

That's way easier. You know what? I shouldn't have read that question, Mike. Come on, Mike. Come on, Mike. Give it together. Shitting dimes. Fiery One had a good response.

He goes, I'll take the 100 bucks. I'd rather not shit dimes. Yes. I think that sums it up. That sums it up, Fiery One. Thank you. Ooh, Kiki has a question for Brandy. Who is Brandy's favorite KU basketball player of all time?

Tyrell Reed. I was going to say, I think I know this answer. Tyrell Reed is my favorite KU basketball player of all time. He's not the most memorable player, but he played with so much heart. I loved him. He put in so much effort every time he was out there. He wrote this really great book. And I had him sign it once.

He came into one of my salons for a haircut and I got to meet him and I had him sign my book. Wait, you just had the book on you? So he had been in once before and the girls told me about it. And so I brought my book to the salon and I was like, if he comes back in, just have him sign it.

And I happened to be there when he came back in. You know, he's also my favorite KU basketball player. You've never even heard of him he was the really tall one who just like took it to the basket slam dunk the funk slam dunk the funk i have lots of other ones that i enjoy as well but he is my favorite of all time alissa says kristin you talk a lot about having lived in different places how many places have you lived and what brought you back to Kansas City? Oh, Jesus.

I've lived a lot of places. And Brandy, what do you love best about Kansas? And what, if anything, would make you want to move? We'll start with Kristen. Yeah, Kristen, you go first. What made you come back? Should I go first so you can calculate how many places I've lived? Well, I was just going to name them and I was going to make one of you guys count.

Go ahead. I'll count. Okay, so a lot of these moves I don't remember because I was a child. So, born in Missouri. One. Lived in Kansas. Two. Lived in Florida.

You were born in Independence, Missouri. Well, are we going to write a whole big, boring book about this? Independence, Missouri. Okay, Missouri. Lived in Kansas. Lived in Florida. Lived in Tennessee. book let's go independence missouri okay missouri lived in kansas lived in florida lived in tennessee um lived in chihuahua mexico for three years as a kid i do remember that one i loved it lived in boston for college lived in north carolina that's where i met sweet normie norm

i think i named them all right seven seven seven places getting something well because you moved like back to kansas in there so yeah so i'm just naming the states so what what brought us back to kansas city that was the other question yes law school yeah so i was working my first job out of college was as a reporter in north carolina that's how I met Norman. And then I decided that I wanted to make some serious buckage. So I got into law school, did one semester of that. Hated it. Hated it.

But it brought us back to Kansas City. Well, brought Norman to Kansas City for the first time. And I'm happy we're here Brandy my favorite thing obviously about being here is like this is where all my family is so um I have never lived out in France yeah I have never practically family Kristen thank you yes it's true it is true well you guys are long-term friends I know we just had a you guys just had a family dinner and it was literally there, it was your family and me. Yes.

So, no, it's like all of, my life is here. And so, I don't know anything else. I don't, I love it here.

I don't know what it would take to get me to move away, honestly. It's not even, not even on my radar. Final question from B. Barsinas. Ooh, B. Barsinas. I think she got

one last week. Yeah, she's good. This is an easy one. This is a good one. What is your favorite vine? Oh. Favorite vine. The kid with the, I don't know, what is it, spoons over his eyes? And he's like, Hey there. I'm just

blocking out the haters. Good choice, Kristen. Is that what you do when you read our YouTube comments? Kylo's going to kill me. I don't have a favorite Vine. I can't think of anything off the top of my head. What do you think my favorite Vine is?

You wouldn't know. It's probably... The McDonald's one. What? Do you know the one I talked about? The McFlurry with the spoon? Oh my God, I know that. Yeah, your favorite one is when they're driving in the car.

Your favorite one is when... Yeah, it is. Is it either Dairy Queen or McDonald's, but one of them's in the passenger seat with a McFlurry, and they're, like, eating. They have the spoon in their mouth, and someone, like, slams on the brakes, and the person with the spoon goes...

Like, all chokes on it. I don't think I'm alright. It makes me laugh so hard. You've got to pull it up. I'm laughing just thinking about that. There it is. The noise. Let me see it.

I've never seen that one. oh my goodness i think my favorite is still the little girl look at all these chickens chickens i do like the little girl that's like, it's frickin' bats. What? I don't know that one. She, like, loves Halloween. Y'all, I have come today with a story. Oh. Hold on, wait, I'm gonna show Kristen this frickin' bats one. I wanna see it's frickin' bats. Okay. It's frickin' bats. Okay, tell us your story Norm

This story comes from Friend of the show Gerard Khalil A.K.A. The Completionist Oh yeah Hey Gerard Shout out to The Completionist You're welcome for the bump Gerard

He's gonna check his social blog After this He's gonna be like Woo we got a bump I don't know where it's from He told me this story The other day after this. He's like, woo, we got a bump, I don't know where it's from. He told me this story the other day and it was

a fascinating story. Okay. Okay. So, 16 year old Gerard, which is probably Wow, we're really going

back in time. Probably 2000, I'm trying to think how old Gerard is. He's about my age So probably 2003 Okay He really wants an Xbox

Microsoft has Xbox Hot console He really wants one Gerard's birthday is right after Christmas That's rough So every year His dad asks him What he wants after Christmas. That's rough. So every year, his dad asks him

what he wants for his birthday and for Christmas. And he goes, well, I want an Xbox. So for Christmas and his birthday, when he was 16, his dad bought him four pairs

of Court Class classics from Costco. What? No. What? Yes. As a, what? His dad bought him four pairs of white 12 and a half size Costco Kirkland brand shoes. Why?

Why would he do that? Gerard's dad loves Costco. He buys everything from Costco. So he wanted an Xbox. He gets four pairs of... Court Classics. Court Classics. So the next year, 17.

So actually... Did Gerard wear those shoes? No. Okay. No, no, no, no. Did he want to donate them to my dad? He donated them to Goodwill. Excellent. Okay. Okay. No, no, no, no. Did he want to donate them to my dad? He donated them to Goodwill. Excellent.

Okay. Okay, so actually this was, that was 2004. Okay. In 2005, young Gerard is now 17. The Xbox 360 is the hot new item this year. Gerard. Okay. So, and Gerard's brother knew somebody that worked at microsoft because the 360 was

very popular when it first came out yeah okay so char was like i want an xbox 360 for christmas okay so he told his dad i want an xbox 360 his dad said problem. Gonna get you that 360. For his birthday and for Christmas, his dad bought him four pairs of Court Classics. Why? His dad loves Costco.

What? No. We all love Costco. That doesn't mean that doesn't make any sense. I love Costco. Never bought a single pair of Court Classics. It's now 2006. What? Gerard is 18, turning 18, Christmas, around the same time. The Xbox 360's been out for over a year now, so it's more readily available.

His dad goes, hey, what do you want for your birthday and for christmas gerard goes i'm not telling you because you're not going to get what i asked for so just like whatever yeah but he said i'm gonna get you that xbox 360 christmas and birthday he gets four pairs of Court Classics? On Christmas, he gets two pairs of Court Classics. This dad should be locked up. For his birthday, he gets an Xbox 360. What?

Why? But he opens the Xbox 360. And there's two pairs of court boxes inside! No! Two pairs of court boxes. No! No, absolutely not. It's true.

Gerard, how did you survive this? What the hell? His dad was just trolling him? Yeah, so the deal is... What the fuck? yeah so the deal is so his dad his dad had an xbox 360 that one of the customers gave him for like some promotion because you know he he run he like works with a lot of gas stations yeah he got an xbox 360 somehow okay and uh he was using it at one of the gas stations, so he kept the box and put two pairs of Court Classics in the box.

That's, like, cruel. Poor Gerard. Did he ever get the Xbox? Yes! He has one. He's got all these pairs of Court Classics. He has one now. Gerard has an Xbox 360.

You know what? That's why Gerard is who he is now. His whole life is video games because he was traumatized by all those words of Court Classics. He's like, I'm finally going to get what I want. Inside the box, it's more Court Classics. Gerard, is this story real? Did you make

this up? I need to know. I feel like this could be a court case. I do too. Gerard would not make this up. And it definitely sounds like something his dad would do. I feel so bad for him. And that is the story. Oh. Man. That was nuts. He had to share

it simply because of DP and his love of court classics. So I think Gerard has owned more pairs of court classics than your father. Probably because he's wearing a Barrett simply because of DP and his love of Court Classics. So I think Gerard has owned more pairs of Court Classics than your father. Probably because he's wearing the same pair for the last 15 years. For our new listeners, my dear father, cheap as can be, he wears exclusively the widest Costco Court court classics you've seen in your life. And yet, he is not going and replacing those things every day because they're 15 whole dollars. 15 whole dollars.

He's got to, yeah, make those last a couple years. He must polish those things. I mean, how do they stay so white? I don't know. Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. Yeah, I've heard those. Mild Soap and Water. Oh, God.

Man, I'm really feeling for Gerard after this. I know, I know. It was a good story. Yeah, it was a good story. Thanks for sharing. Shout out, Gerard Khalil. Thank you for sharing your story. Yes, thank you for sharing your story.

Have you ever been trolled in a gift-giving situation? I don't think so. I don't think I have either. No. Have I been trolled? Yeah, like, yeah. Ooh. Yes. You have?ed? Yeah, like that. Ooh. Yes.

You have? What? What happened? Yes. What happened? Ooh. Maybe I should save it for the next podcast. Well, no.

Tell it right now. Okay. You know this story. Do I? When I was a child, we went to Florida for Christmas. Okay? We would go see my great- great grandma in Sarasota. Beautiful place, by the way.

Shout out to Sarasota, Florida. Love Sarasota. Oh my gosh, move along! Sarasota has great food. Is Sarasota sponsoring this episode? Great beaches, great shopping, great weather all the time. So, you know,

we'd stay at these little You know hotels And we'd go visit my great grandma for Christmas Holiday Inn And one year Because it was Christmas Eve And you know we didn't have a tree or stockings Because we were staying in a hotel

So I put like one of my socks up Because I was hoping Santa would come by And fill the stocking. Right. I woke up, there was $100. Oh my gosh. In my dirty sock. In your dirty gym sock.

Great. I was thrilled. Yes. Well, yeah. We went to the mall. Yeah. Had a great time. Did Randy or Ryan get any money?

Yes. They also got $100. All right. Wow. A year goes by. We're back in Florida for great grandma visit Christmas celebration. I once again put out a sock. I'm like, last year I got $100 from Sam.

What will I get this year? Put out the sock, go to bed, wake up. I have a sock Filled with sand I was so upset Were you bad? I don't think so Weren't you always bad? You weren't the little bad kid?

I was bad in a cool way, Brandon Oh, okay I had Sonic the Hedgehog. Yeah, I had Sonic the Hedgehog stationary sets. Oh my goodness. That's hilarious. Because I was trolled pretty hard with that. Yeah, that is. Now is the time that we do

Supreme Court Inductions. What? That's right! I'm confused. What do you mean Supreme Court Inductions? Well, you see, Brett Kavanaugh has been removed from the Supreme Court. I'm sorry. This is just my fantasy. That's what you fantasize about?

Yes, that would be great. Sweet fantasy, baby. You open my eyes. You come and take me. I'm adding that to the playlist. Sweet fantasy. I have The Great Pretender on here. Ooh, nice.

Don't make me, I will sing all these again if you remind me what's on this playlist. We can't be helped. No, Brett Kavanaugh is still on the supreme court folks okay um but if you'd like to be on our supreme court all you have to do is head on over to patreon.com slash lgtc podcast and sign up at the supreme court level and you will get an induction on this very podcast a thank you card with an awesome lgtc sticker inside plus access to the discord case updates bonus episodes the list goes on i mean that's really it well you can vote on topics no there was no more that's right for today's inductions we will be reading the inductees names and their least favorite word

for um today's inductions i would like everybody to please stand and turn 180 degrees kelly lynn flesh why did you say it like that you know what i think of every time i hear the word flesh no that do you remember in my girl when she joined that poetry group and that one guy wrote that? Or maybe it was a girl. I think it was a girl who wrote that inappropriate poem called Flesh All a Mesh. Ew. Flesh All a Mesh. Ew, no, stop.

Stop. Gross. Chris Clybur. Phlegm. Ugh, I'm right there with you chris man we're gonna do it together okay okay man budget oh man how often do you think she hears that word oh my gosh growing up it was all i ever heard the budget the Oh, the DP budget. Yeah. Julia McLaren. Overdraft.

Jan Meaden. Oh, her least favorite word is her full first name. Jennifer. Oh. Brittany Nusai. Trump. I'm a big fan of him. I just don't get it.

Okay. He can't grab all our pussies. Ann Smith Hun Oh Oh I knew it Because you can't say it Without sounding condescending Hey hun

Hun Can you move over Welcome To the Supreme Court Oh that was so fun That was so fun

Absolutely Hey guys Thank you so much For your support We appreciate it Oh, that was so fun. That was so fun. Absolutely. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it more than we can ever say. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please subscribe to the podcast. Find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, Reddit. Find us all those places.

And then? Do you have listener homework this week? Oh Do you wanna give some? Do you wanna drop in some listener homework real quick? Listen People have been slacking on this homework Okay

We have not received any Twizzlers You're right And I have not gotten an anal leakage count Yeah No one's done an anal leakage But that episode did just come out So It's true

Yeah Wait a minute Nibs? Oh yeah What about nibs? Nibs That episode did just come out. It's true. Wait a minute. Nibs? Oh, yeah. What about nibs? Nibs. Try to find nibs in your grocery store.

Listen to our homework. Find Twizzlers nibs in your local grocery store. Yes. Can you do it? Can you do it? I don't think so. I tried to do it today. Please tweet at us at Let's Go Number Two Court. That's terrible.

Don't say Let's Go Number Two. At Let's Go Number Two Court. That sounds terrible. Don't say Let's Go Number Two. At Let's Go Two. The Number Two Court. Tweet at us with a picture of you with proof that you found Twizzlers. Going Number Two. Yeah. No, gosh. And once you've done all that, be sure to join us next week.

When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. Be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Smithsonian Magazine, the New York Daily News, and a ton of old-timey articles that I found through newspapers.com. And I got my info from CBS News, the New York Times, Oprah,

the Denver Post, the SFGate, and the Associated Press. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.