Let's Go To Court! - 90: The Assassination of William McKinley & a Disturbed Young Gamer

Episode Date: October 9, 2019

United States President William McKinley was on top of the world. For the most part, the American people loved him — and he loved them. In fact, shaking hands and meeting new people was one of his favorite parts of the job. But it was also one of the most dangerous.  Despite the fact that two previous U.S. Presidents had been assassinated, presidential security was still grossly insufficient. It was the ideal environment for anarchist Leon Czolgosz to enact his revenge.  Then, Brandi tells us an unsettling story about a deeply disturbed teenage boy. When Zachary Davis was just nine years old, his father died from ALS. His father’s death was understandably difficult on the young boy. He withdrew. He became quieter than ever before. Eventually, he was diagnosed with schizophrenia and depressive disorder. Years later, as a teenager, Zachary brutally murdered his mother, Melanie Davis, then attempted to light the house of fire. The prosecution would argue that Zachary was cold-blooded. But the defense made a case for leniency. They said he was a disturbed young man who desperately needed mental health treatment. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Czolgosz is to die,” The Fairmont News “Leon Czolgosz” entry for Wikipedia “James Benjamin Parker” entry for Wikipedia “Assassination of William McKinley” entry for Wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The Sledgehammer Killer -Zachary Davis” by Emily Thompson, morbidology.com “Zachary Davis: The Disturbing Story Of The 15-Year-Old Who Bludgeoned His Mother And Tried To Burn His Brother Alive” by William DeLong, All Things Interesting “Davis trial Day 3: Zachary Davis tells jurors ‘I didn’t do it’” by Tena Lee, Tennessean “Zachary Davis gets 20 more years in bludgeoning death of mother” by Tena Lee, Tennessean “Mentally Ill or Monster?” episode Dr. Phil

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about the assassination of President William McKinley.

And I'll be talking about a deeply disturbed young gamer. Oh, no, a gamer. A gamer. Oh, Norm. I like gamers. I don't know if you're going to like this one. He's deeply disturbed. We're all disturbed.

Deep down. As gamers. I don't know anything about the assassination of President William McKinney. McKinley. McKinley. I didn't either, and I think that's what makes this so interesting. It'll feel kind of like a whodunit because you know nothing about the case. Besides the fact that, spoiler alert, he dies. All right.

Are we ready? Ready. Hey, Kristen, you got some Smarties in your teeth over there? You guys, thank you so much to listeners Mark and Kathy. They sent us... Well, they sent us our favorite treat, which are very difficult to find here but apparently on every street corner in canada twizzler nibs oh delicious there was even french on the package which felt kind of fancy they were like fancy nibs and then was it did mark and kathy send you

smarties too uh they sent me smarties which is a hundred times better than mms okay so this is blew my mind because I know Smarties to be those like little sugar candies that we have in the United States. It's not a M&M-like candy. Far superior to M&M's, if you ask Norm. So this whole time, there was this conversation in our Discord a while back

about someone about, so Fiery One got Italian ice and he got M&M's on top. And Mark was like, oh, would have been better with Smarties. And I was like, that sounds fucking terrible. Who was putting Smarties on Italian ice or ice cream or whatever? Turns out he meant French Smarties. I mean, Canadian Smarties.

French Canadian Smarties. Which is delicious. Smarties. French Canadian Smarties. Which is delicious. It's delicious. They're so good. If you're wondering how you could be abreast of all of these amazing conversations that are going down in our Discord, Kristen's here to tell you how. So you join

the Patreon for just $5 a month. You get access to the Discord. You get bonus episodes month you get access to the discord you get bonus episodes you get to vote on topics okay norman norm's eating nibs gotta stop no one wants to hear someone eat anything you know what's the worst thing to listen to someone eat an apple oh really i like that it's I like the... It's disgusting. Well... No, it's disgusting. Yeah, I know.

I'm aware how it sounds. Red-headed lady. Reach for an apple. What are you talking about? Reach for an apple. Red-headed lady. Randy Newman. Okay, everyone who thinks that Norman's Randy Newman impression is terribly offensive.

No, it's Randy Newman. Okay. Anyway. Anyway, join up on the point of this to ask you to please join us on Patreon. You get in the Discord. You get to vote on topics. You get case updates. You get,

if you join at the Supreme Court level, you get inducted into the Supreme Court. Plus you get a sticker. It's super cool. Head on over to patreon.com slash LGTC podcast and, you know, join up today. Kristen, take it away

with your assassination of President William McKinley. Are you bored already? No, I'm excited. podcast and you know join up today kristen take it away with your um assassination of president william mckinley are you are you bored already no i'm excited okay this seems like the topic i was writing this up i'm fascinated but i was like brandy's gonna think this is the lamest shit ever you were like i saw your intro earlier and then just now before we were ready to record you're like do i have a case for you and i was like oh cool an assassination exactly see you're trying to fake enthusiasm now but i know how you feel i'm sure it will be amazing you're right it will be and here we go first off wikipedia chef's kiss on this whole thing

for american history they really bring it so this this is all wikipedia and some stuff that i had to look up on newspapers.com because i thought wikipedia was full of shit turns out wikipedia was not full of shit excellent okay the year brandy was 1901 and things were looking great i'm just kidding things were looking great for u U.S. President William McKinley. He'd just been elected to his second term six months earlier. And he had this cool new vice president named Teddy Roosevelt. Oh, he was riding a moose shirtless like you do. He was on top of the world.

As president, he'd taken the country out of an economic depression. He'd led us to victory in the Spanish-American War. Tell us more about the Spanish-American War. Can't do it. He'd overseen the takeover of Puerto Rico, Guam, the Philippines. Are these in the pro column? Not for me, but... Oh, it's really sad.

He'd conquered the shit out of Puerto Rico and Guam. It's so funny to see how, like... So he was super popular in his day. Yeah. But you look back on that and you go, oh, gosh, can we leave Puerto Rico alone? So, for the most part, like I said, people really seemed to like him.

He had served in the Civil War and he'd actually started as a private in the Army and worked his way up. Fuck, how old is he? I mean... Okay, do some math with me here. Civil War ended in 1865. It's 1901, and he's living it up as a president. Hang on. You know, and it's 1901, and people died of a brisk wind. Yes.

Dearest Martha, a brisk wind. This guy was tough as nails. Let's see, how old was he? You know I'm not good with the math. Born in 1843. Oh, hell! He died at age 58. He was only 58.

Spoiler alert. He dies! He dies! Did he die? That's horrifying. Oh, no. Oh, no. Okay, side no. Okay.

Side note. Yes. Keith Morrison has a podcast called The Truth About Pam. And it's just, it's just. Oh, no. I have to listen to it. I've not listened to it yet. I'm dying to.

The Truth About Pam. I mean, it's just all that. He also has a line of pop sockets and I need one. No, he doesn't. Yeah. Is it his face? Yes. Be still my heart.

I know. So, William McKinley had serious people skills. And he truly enjoyed meeting new people. He was one of those freaks. He's like you. I'm sorry.

I need to go back to the math for a second. So he was like 15 when he was one of those freaks he's like you i'm sorry i need to go back to the math for a second so he was like 15 when he was serving in the civil war that's how they did it back huh no he was born in 1843 right so he was in 1863 he was 20 years old all right all right all right so he was probably a young recruit, drafted, maybe officer school, I don't know. Strapping young man, fighting for the union. He truly enjoyed mating new people. Yeah. To William McKinley, going out and shaking hands and kissing babies was his favorite part of the job.

Yeah, specifically the kissing the babies. I don't know when kissing babies started. You know, surely that's something that started later. I think so. Yeah. In fact, he loved it so much that he wanted to do it all the time. And he didn't want a bunch of annoying security dudes to stand between him and the American people. Like, let me get out there and kiss all those babies.

Oh, God, don't make him sound... I'm sorry. I need to be kissing a baby constantly okay that is so alarming stop i'm saying i know what you're saying this is not a brandy case okay no children are harmed uh fyi willie mckinley began as a private in the Union Army. Yeah, I already said that. You said a private? Yes. I thought you said he had private.

Confirmed? I don't know. Let's get to the autopsy. That's terrible. I'm so sorry. Well, you are so not interested in American history that you're just like, let's take this in a whole other direction. Let me get out there and kiss those babies. Okay, I'm on track.

Let me kiss all the babies. But this was a very risky way to live. Constantly making out with these babies. Because the parents would get so upset. Now, they didn't have a sex offender registry back then. They just made you president automatically. Terrible. Oh, I'm sorry.

Should I get back to the script? Yeah. Yeah? Okay. All right. In his own lifetime, two presidents had been assassinated. Abraham Lincoln in 1865 and James Garfield in 1881. But William McKinley either didn't think he was at risk or knew the risks and just didn't care.

In Washington, D.C., he and First Lady Ida McKinley were known to ride around in their carriage. No security guards in sight. Wow. And when he was back home in Canton, Ohio, there were no rules. He'd just walk around the street, zero security, the President of the United States, just chilling. Not everyone thought that this was such a great idea. The President's personal secretary, George Cordelieu. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. How's that spelled? It's spelled C-O-R-T-E-L-Y-O-U. Cordelieu. He was like, William, buddy, you are the president of the United States. You have to be more careful than this. He was like, William, buddy, you are the president of the United States. You have to be more careful than this. About six months into William McKinley's second term, George got really nervous once again.

The president was scheduled to go to Buffalo, New York. For two days, the president would be surrounded by the public. He was going to spend most of his time at the fair. He'd make a speech, then he'd just walk around. Doesn't seem so great, huh? No, that seems, yeah, I can absolutely see why that would be dangerous. Do you know anything about James Garfield's assassination? No.

Okay. So. It's one of my fathinations. And I haven't written any of this down so you know coming to break you're fascinated with assassinating presidents no with presidential assassinations oh okay so abraham lincoln the theory back then was that like that was a crazy one-time event. Yeah. So it really didn't change security protocols. Okay.

Because people thought it was just, like, this wild thing. Couldn't believe it happened. It kind of makes me think of, like, the first school shooting, how everyone was just kind of like, holy shit, no one knew. Oh, this is the start of something terrible that's going to happen again and again. Okay. Oh, this is the start of something terrible that's going to happen again and again. Okay. James Garfield.

The guy who shot him was like this weirdo nut job who like tried to be part of a free sex commune at one point. Nobody wanted to have sex with him. Hilarious story. Anyway, back then, if you wanted to go talk to the president, just like a common person. Yeah. You just go get in line and you could go have a meeting with the president just like a common person yeah you just go get in line and you could go have a meeting with the president of the united states is that not the most insane thing you've ever heard insane yeah let me waste this leader's time so this guy got it into his head that he wanted i think he wanted like a cabinet position and of course he was he was a

looney tune so he thought he deserved it he felt entitled to i think it was like ambassador to france or something and obviously he did not get that so he ended up shooting president garfield wow and it was only after that that they were like maybe it shouldn't be a deal where like if you want to just come meet the president you can just show up yeah i don't know what shouldn't i don deal where like if you want to just come meet the president, you can just show up. Yeah. I don't know. It shouldn't.

I don't know when all that stopped. But like presidential protections just like. Yeah. Weren't happening. OK. So and those both happened in his lifetime. Yet he's still like, I'm out here. I'm approachable.

Yeah. Come at me. No weapons, please. Yeah. Come at me. No weapons, please. Yeah. Okay. So George, the personal secretary, is getting really nervous about this two-day event in Buffalo where he's just going to be like out at the fair with tons of people all around him. So on the first day, he'd make that speech. He'd walk around.

Second day, there would be a public reception at the Temple of Music. The event was going to be in the center of the fair. And it would be a chance for literally anyone to go up to the president and shake his hand. Wow. Ten minutes. Just come up, shake the president's hand for 10 minutes yeah for 10 minutes the president would be there shaking hands okay you get them shaking hands with one person for 10 minutes that is way too long you'd think after lincoln and garfield being assassinated they would

step it up well see i think yeah and i've got a premonition that this is not going to end well well you know lincoln they thought that was just a fluke one-time thing garfield i think they did up the security a bit but just not enough i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm making really obscene hand gestures and not meaning to the the crazy thing about lincoln, I mean, back then, literally anyone could go to the White House and like, I want to talk to the president. Norman, I literally just said that. Have you been on your phone this whole time? Yeah, I'm just listening for audio issues right now. Norman, I literally just said that. Then cut it out, okay? No, I'm leaving it in.

I'm leaving it in. You know what I think is crazy? And I don't know. I think I read this somewhere sometime. What is it, Brandi? What's that? Like in the days of Lincoln. Uh-huh. People could just walk up to the White House and just meet with the president. Get the fuck out of town.

Are you serious? Tell me more. Norman, are you hearing this? Are you listening to this? This is my last day as I live. Brandi's got some hot information. So yeah, like anyone can come up and shake the president's hand. During a 10 minute window.

Right. Got it. But I mean, they weren't Googling anybody. They weren't doing any kind of background checks back in the day. Did they do a pat-down? No. Okay. Hmm.

Hmm. Doesn't seem so wise, huh? It doesn't. No. Secretary George was like, absolutely not. I've got a terrible feeling about this. You shouldn't do it. George tried twice to take it off the president's calendar.

Wow. But each time, William McKinley was like, cut it out, man. I want it off the president's calendar wow but each time william mckinley was like cut it out man i want to support the fair yeah i want to give people a chance to meet a u.s president this is going to be meaningful to people but george kept insisting and finally william mckinley was like why should i no one would wish to hurt me Like, why should I? No one would wish to hurt me. Right. And I'm sure the room got real awkward, like, do we remember Garfield?

Then George took a different tactic. He was like, well, okay, okay, here's the thing. So many people will want to meet you, and you won't be able to meet all of them. So you're going to really disappoint some people. Better to just not shake hands with anybody. Right. And William McKinley said, well, people may be disappointed, but at least they'll know that I tried. At this point, George had to admit defeat.

It's the freaking president. The president has decided. But he did call ahead to Buffalo and say, hey, the freaking president is going to be at your fair. Do you think maybe you could provide him with some extra security when he's around all the randos? And they're like, absolutely, sure, no problem. We've got a ton of guys who are highly trained. Prepare to be impressed.

So, fast forward to Thursday, September 5th, 1901. It was the first day of the fair, and it was packed. An estimated 116,000 people showed up. Wow! Yes! That's a lot of people! Well, you get to meet the president! Yeah! I'm sorry, not all 116,000

are going to meet him in a 10-minute period this is true but you get to like so tons of people you get to see a speech and yeah yeah 50,000 people attended his speech which i'm like what about the rest of you where are the other 60,000 they like getting cotton candy or what anyway so pictures from the event are crazy. It's just people, people, people, people, all the hats. They all had hats on. Everyone was packed in, eager to hear the president speak. One man was especially excited to be near the president.

So he got there early and he found a spot really close to the podium. Is this the murderer? Shh. People don't know. People don't know what the word assassination means. Oh, okay. In what would be his final speech, William McKinley advocated for an end to American isolationism. He was up there like, let's do some trades.

Business, business, business. Yeah. And the crowd loved it. Afterward, First Lady Ida was like, great speech, dear. I'd like to go lay down. So he took her back to the house where they were staying

and then he hustled back to the fair. The day continued with a luncheon, a reception, an unscheduled stop for coffee, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. By all accounts, the president was surrounded by police and soldiers the whole time. It wasn't exactly his style, but, you know, he dealt with it.

Ida rejoined him, and it was magical. The fairgrounds that night were lit up with this newfangled thing called electricity. Ooh! Ooh! Fancy, fancy! Then then it's the next day friday september 6th william mckinley woke up at the house where he and the first lady were staying and he decided to go for a walk so he did luckily the police and the soldiers who were supposed to guard him were like they saw him trying to sneak off and they were like, whoa, whoa, whoa, Mr. President, Mr. President, let us walk with you.

Oh, wow. That day, there were a bunch of activities. There was a visit to Niagara Falls, a tour of Goat Island, which I've never heard of. Sounds goaty. And there was the reception at the Temple of Music, where, again, literally everybody... What? I didn't realize that Buffalo was so close to Niagara Falls.

I don't know that it is so close. It is extremely close. Well, I mean, it makes sense, because they get that crazy lake effect snow. Mm-hmm. So then there was going to be the reception at the Temple of Music, where again, literally anybody could come and shake the president's hand.

That was the event that George was worried about. Mm-hmm. So once again, Ida didn't attend because she wasn't feeling well, but William McKinley did. He attended the shit out of it. Yeah. So look this up.

Temple of Music. The building was gorgeous. It was made for the fair and it was torn down immediately after. Oh my gosh. Isn't that so cool? They tore it down? So apparently everything associated with the fair was torn down which i think is just tragic i i think god leave that often happened like with

the world's fair and so too because stuff typically wasn't built to last it was it looked amazing but was not like very structurally sound and wouldn't hold up over time so that makes sense but i mean this this venue was incredible looking. Should we try to describe it? It's got, you know, there's like a dome-y thing and then very cool, like ornate details. It says on Wikipedia, major influence was the Italian Renaissance.

Yeah, that's, it's all fancy pants. It is very fancy. So like I said, the building was gorgeous. It was right in the middle of the fair and it had doorways on all four sides. That sounds like it could be pretty dangerous in a situation. That's a security nightmare. Yeah, and it was a nightmare. But it's not like they didn't think about security.

There were police at every door. There were detect at every door. There were detectives standing by the aisle of people. And the president had his Secret Service agent, George Foster, plus two additional Secret Service agents. Different George. Different George. Not his secretary, George. Okay. Plus the two additional Secret Service agents because, you know, George, the secretary, had been like, let's, you know.

Beef it up. Yeah. But that's not all. Right before the event in the Temple of Music, some important fair dudes were having lunch and one of them made a weird joke. The guy was like, uh, what if the president gets shot during the reception at the Temple of Music? the president gets shot during the reception at the temple of music and then they tackled him immediately to the ground uh no instead one of the event organizers heard that and got kind of freaked out and was like holy shit what if that happens yeah what if the president gets shot at our event. So, super last minute, he was like, okay, we need to make some changes. So, the fair had already arranged for about a dozen artillerymen

to be there at this reception. They were going to be in uniform, looking all spiffy, but they were going to be there for decoration. They were just there to look the part. They were going to have the American flag behind the president, blah, blah, blah. So this guy goes up to these men.

He's like, hey, hey, you guys are officially not decoration anymore. You are security for the president. So what you're going to do is anytime you see a sketchball in line, I want you to swarm in. All right. And they are like, we've got it. We've been preparing for this moment our whole lives. We are so ready to protect the president. Sketchball alert.

Got it. Mm-hmm. There was just one problem. What? Well, these guys had, like, hearts of gold, I'm sure. They're like, oh, that guy looks super nice. There's not a single sketchball here. Well, they're just, like, they weren't trained for this.

You know, they were just guys. How are you supposed to pick a sketch ball out of the crowd? Who the fuck knows? I think that's why people get trained for it. They're not just told at the last minute, hey, buddy, you see a weirdo, just pummel him with the end of your, I don't know, musket or whatever they have. Norm, muskets? Is that what they had

in 1901? They were past the muskets. AK-47s. Not there yet. Not there yet. Okay, jumping ahead. My gun knowledge is very limited. Why is that? They didn't have much training.

So what they ended up doing was they all got like really close to the president. Uh-huh. The problem with doing that is that then the police and the detectives... Oh, yeah. ...who had some actual training... Are nowhere near the president. ...couldn't see the president. Oh.

Yeah. Okay. So that's a bit chaotic. That's not great. But hey, we've got more security, so... Getting a bad feeling about this. You getting bad vibes about this temple of music i tried to give you bad vibes during the speech thing

here's the other not great thing okay picture it you are the president you've got like one secret service agent who's always with you okay you've got a line of people coming this way. Where do you want your one trusted secret service agent to be? Oh, I'd like him to be here. You know, tell the listeners where you're pointing. So if the line of people is coming in from the left, I want my secret service agent on my left. Right. Yes. And I beg that I'm incorrect. So that's where the Secret Service agent, in these circumstances, would want to stand. Yeah. To the left. Maybe a little bit behind.

To the left. Everything you own. In a box to the left. And maybe a little bit behind. Yeah. But. But what? President McKinley was not having that because that was going to block his view of the people.

Actually. Oh. Actually. Oh. The organizer of the fair wanted to stand next to the president. Okay, well, fuck off. Are you ready to take a bullet for the president? Well, no, but here's what he was wanting to do. what he was wanting to do. What he wanted to do was that when someone he knew

came through the line, he could then, as the very important person next to the president, say, oh, Mr. President, this is Billy Bob. And, oh, Billy Bob, have you met my friend,

Mr. President? Yes, I'm friends with Mr. President. I'm throwing a little douchebaggery on this guy. He might not have been a douchebag, but anyway. So he really wanted to be right next to the president. So that's what happened. And the Secret Service agent, who you, President Brandy, would want right next to you,

well, he ended up on the other side of the aisle. That's not a good idea. Fuck no. Oh, let me take a bullet from you. Across the room? Yeah! What could go wrong i ask you it sounds like a lot soon it was time for the reception the temple of music filled to the brim there were people up in the galleys filled the galleys uh obviously there were tons of people in line but people knew he was only going to be

shaking hands for so long so a lot of them were like you know what i'm not going to get to shake his hand i'll just stand yeah and just watch in you know in the i don't know main floor okay so that's what was happening in the ga section that's right standing room only ga look at the president someone played the star spangled banner and then william mckinley took his spot and shook hands it was said that he could shake 50 hands a minute what the hell okay so i did some reading no you're doing it all wrong you're doing it all wrong He had a handshake method that made the line move quickly, which let me tell you, when you're reading about someone's handshake method, it's like so hard to picture. Okay.

I kind of want to have you stand up. Well, no, maybe Norman. Okay. I'm going to go shake Norman's hand like I'm William McKinley, and I want you to tell the good listeners what's happening. Great. So you're going to be there. They're just Indian leg wrestling, guys.

So I am William McKinley. Okay. Kristen's William McKinley right now. Oh. Oh. And you're a common citizen. Come to us. Wow.

Hello, Mr. President. Hello. Thank you. Oh, it's like a feed-through system. It's a shake and pull. Yes. He pulls off the shake and pull. Okay, so here's my understanding of what he was doing. He would go in for the grab, kind of high on a person's hand,

and then pull them through. His whole goal was they should not be able to squeeze his fingers at all. Yeah, he wanted them out. Shake and pull. Shake and pull. I like it. I know. Shake and bake. You know, he's moving very quickly. Moving. he wanted them out. Shake and pull. Shake and pull. I like it. I know. Shake and bake.

You know, he's moving very quickly. Moving. He's grooving. I'm kind of salsa-ing. Yeah. Again, only had 10 minutes. He wanted to shake

as many hands as he could. 50 hands a minute. What is happening in your ear? It's my earring. I'm so glad. I'm getting a wax situation. No, it's my earring. It's bothering me.

So about five minutes in, one of the event organizers, you know, ordered that the one set of doors be shut so they can cut off the line. And that was when a troubled young man who had been standing in line for hours saw that the doors were closing. So he pushed ahead and got in just in time oh gosh okay yeah the line kept moving at one point a 12 year old girl who was there with her mom asked the president if she could have the red carnation that he always had in his lapel uh-huh it was his good luck charm but he loved 12 year old girls stop girls. Stop it. Oh, my God. But he gave it to her. Yeah.

You said. Stop it. Loves them babies. Shortly after that, the Secret Service spotted a strange man in line. A sketchball. A sketchball, if you will. Yeah. They got very nervous.

They were ready to pounce but the dude just shook william mckinley's hand and moved along wow wow no incident without incident no incident just looked weird had no ill intentions classic tale so everybody thinks i'm out to get them but i just have a lazy eye so under normal circumstances yeah the rule for these meet and greets with the president where there were seemingly no rules like the one rule was you were supposed to go up empty-handed yeah with your with your hands open yeah but that day was super fucking hot so a lot of people had handkerchiefs to wipe away their sweat and stuff and so no one was checking hands right so when this dude walked up

with a handkerchief wrapped around his right hand nobody thought anything of it yeah william mckinley went to shake the man's left, and that's when the man shot the president twice in the stomach. From a handkerchief? So he had a gun in his hand, but he concealed it with a handkerchief. It just looked like his hand was injured, maybe. Wow. So William McKinley kind of stumbles forward, and the man prepared to shoot him a third time. So who stopped him?

Was it the Secret Service? 12-year-old girl. The artillery men? The police? The detectives? No. It was the 12-year-old girl. Oh, I wish.

That'd be amazing. That would be the best story ever. We would all know this story. It was James Parker, the next man in line. So James Parker was born in Atlanta, Georgia in 1857. Both of his parents had been enslaved. Which, okay, if you're born to enslaved parents in Atlanta in 1857, aren't you also enslaved? Probably, yes.

Right, okay. His Wikipedia page makes no mention, but I'm just saying. Okay, so when he saw the man shoot William McKinley, James punched him in the neck and tackled him to the ground. It was incredible. Oh my gosh. So here's what one eyewitness said. With one quick shift of his clenched fist,

he knocked the pistol from the assassin's hand. With another, he spun the man around like a top. And with a third, he broke the assassin's nose. How many hands did he have? A fourth split the assassin's lip and knocked out several teeth. So, I mean, if half of that is true, it's great. But everyone says James Parker knocked the shit out of this guy way more quickly than any of like the people who were paid to do it. Yes.

Shortly after the shooting, James Parker said, just think, Father Abe freed me. And now I saved his successor from death, provided that bullet he got into the president don't kill him. Oh, yeah. got into the president don't kill him oh yeah so james parker knocked the shit out of the assassin and the other guys they're like the guys from hot fuzz they come in like two minutes too late they start beating the shit out of the assassin and by this point they've got willie mckinley he's bleeding profusely they They set him in a chair. He's seeing everything that's happening, and he stops the men from basically beating this guy to death. Have you actually seen Hot Fuzz?

Yes. I love Hot Fuzz. I love Simon Pegg. Were you offended? I thought you were making a reference to a movie you'd never seen before. I've seen Hot Fuzz. I love Hot Fuzz. Love Hot Fuzz. Did I get it confused?

I don't know. Hot Fuzz is about the dumb cops, right? Potentially. Well, I know they get it in the end, but like... You have any more details? Not really. I mean, isn't it the two cops in scotland or where yeah yeah i know what i'm talking about all right all right i'm just checking calm down brandy what about shauna the dead you seen shauna the dead i don't think i have well you like hot fuzz you like shauna

the dead not if i haven't seen it no you, you will like it, is what I'm saying. Movie night idea. Putting it down. Write it down. Norm, you got that on the list? Hot Fuzz, got it. No! Hey, did you know that back in Lincoln's day, anyone...

You didn't write that on the list! It's amazing the Confederacy didn't take advantage of that no kidding norm you were supposed to write down shauna the dead not hot fuzz got it so william mckinley orders the guys to stop beating up the man who just shot him twice in the stomach oh my gosh the scene was pure chaos so people who were in the temple of music were desperate to get out yeah but the people outside were like well what's that big noise i want to go in there and see what's going on right so it's like this combination of everybody trying to spill out everyone trying to come in somehow they got the president into a stretcher and got him out of there and they got

him into an electric powered ambulance and rushed him out of there and they got him into an electric powered ambulance and rushed him to the nearest hospital they had those in 1901 i'm sure there was one of them and it was at the fair so yeah they rushed him to the hospital unfortunately it is like the shittiest hospital ever really it was and i shouldn't say it was the shittiest it was just there basically for the fair it was for people who were like dehydrated got a little scrape not for like 1901 exactly exactly it's not for anyone yeah who's been shot twice in the stomach yeah luckily the hospital did at least have an operating room but when the president arrived there was no qualified doctor on staff so they had to do something though so immediately they're like okay quick quick who is

the best surgeon in buffalo and everyone was like oh easy dr roswell park you're gonna want him and they were like great where the hell is he and they were like, great. Where the hell is he? And they're like, oh, well, yeah, OK. So he is technically in Niagara Falls right now and he's doing a neck surgery. Oh, my goodness. But they were like, who cares? We need him if he's the best. This is the president. We need him now. Yeah. Who cares if that neck guy dies? Bring us Roswell Park right now. That was exactly what they thought oh my gosh so somehow they get word to that other hospital and someone bursts into the operating room and it's like hey hey emergency emergency dr park dr park and dr park is like get out of here i'm performing surgery and the person's like the president needs you it's urgent it's urgent and he goes i don't care if

it's for the president of the United States. I'm in the middle of surgery. He did not. And the guy was like, but it is for the president of the United States. Oh, my gosh. That's the story. Who knows if that's what. Oh, my gosh.

I hope that's what really happened. So. So, yeah. Long story short, Dr. Park is like, too bad. I'm already in a surgery. Yes. Yeah. I have taken an oath.

And this guy is just as worthy as the president. Yeah. Yeah. So Dr. Park wouldn't leave. So they settled for Dr. Herman Mentor. Do you not like the name or just settled? Settled. So 40 minutes after the president

arrived at the hospital dr mentor potato chips they're like how did you even get those it's 1901 so weirdly dr mentor and william mckinley had actually met the day before wow um and incredibly william mckinley had this amazing. What's I almost said face for names. Name for faces? No, no. What am I trying to say? He could like he memorized everybody. So like he's he you know, he's there with his gunshots and he looks at the doctor. He's like, oh, hey, man. Hey, man.

I didn't expect to need your professional services. What is the phrase? I don't know. A brain for faces. Tell it. A brain for faces. What am I trying to say here? Someone who, like, recognizes people?

Yeah. Let me do some research. Yes! I can... I mean, it is gone. There is a phrase. I know, because I read it yesterday. Can I repeat it today? Absolutely not. Yeah, I don't even have it in my notes. I just said

he remembered him. Fuck. A mind for for faces that's not it i'm just making shit up yeah i'm not really seeing anything yeah i don't know oh well listener homework figure out what the hell i'm trying to say what are you seeing okay well moving on moving on william mckinley was incredible was completely alert he was struggling and in terrible pain but he was able to speak and at one point he talked about the assassin he said he didn't know poor fellow what he was doing he couldn't have known oh yeah oh i know wow Yeah. Oh! I know. Wow!

It seemed like the president might live, but he needed good medical intervention, and he needed it right away. Actually, he needed the best possible medical intervention, because these kind of surgeries, they just weren't done. Pretty soon, another surgeon showed up, Dr. Matthew Mann. Unfortunately, Dr. Mann was really more of a gynecologist. He had no real experience in wounds to the abdomen, but hey, this was no time to get choosy. You know, they've got the two doctors, let's go. Doctors Mann and Mentor both agreed that they needed to find the bullet so i should say here the first bullet i don't think penetrated but the second one definitely did so they gave the president some morphine first one was like a bb right bounced off his belly and they just started digging around his abdomen. I know.

I mean, it sounds fucking gross, and it's so much grosser than you were thinking. Because they did not have proper surgical tools. And they didn't even have proper lighting. They did not have electric lighting. So it was just like, they were digging around in the president's tum-tum in the dark oh oh so gross i know uh the fair had displayed this newfangled thing called an x-ray machine wow uh but the doctors didn't have one and they didn't think they needed to borrow one from the fair. Right. So they just kept going. Yeah.

The doctors didn't find the bullet. So they just admitted defeat. From what I read, they did not try to clean the wound. That was also kind of a newfangled thing. Yeah. So they just, after literally digging around in him him they just sewed him back up and gave him more pain medication wow meanwhile word had spread all over the nation the president had been shot yeah but who would want to do such a thing who indeed the man's name was Leon... Cuzz... Cuzzolgs?

Spell it. It's Polish. C-Z-O-L-G-O-S-Z. I'm sorry, I gotta see that. Spell that one more time. C-Z-O-L-G-O-S-Z. Chowgosh. What?

Chowgosh. Chowgosh. Oh my god, is that a bee? What the f- Did you guys see that? Kiki's on the case. Kiki did. Kiki saw it. Why is there a bee in here? Oh my god, do you see it? No!

Where? I think I see it. Kristen, I don't see anything. What bee? I did hear something buzzing. Okay, I think it got knocked down by the- Well, Kiki's on it. He was 28 years old and he'd been born in michigan to polish immigrants he had seven siblings and his mom had died when he was 10 but the real turning point in his life was when he lost his job at the cleveland rolling mill company there had been a big labor dispute the The company wanted to reduce wages, which I'm sure were already shitty.

And so the workers went on strike. And ultimately, Leon and all of his brothers lost their jobs. So they were all out of work, just in time for the economic crash of 1893. Leon tried to find comfort in the Catholic Church, but that didn't cut it. Over time, he came to see America as completely unjust. The rich kept getting richer, while the poor kept getting poorer. And you know why? Why?

Because of the government. Oh. The government was the reason for inequality. And someone, Brandy, Needed to do something about it damn right so this dude was super into anarchy loved anarchy then on july 29th 1900 leon heard of a major world event an anarchist named giietano Bressi, I think, shot King Umberto I

of Italy. Leon was inspired. These evil leaders needed to be killed. Leon had thought about shooting the president during his first speech in Buffalo, but he was worried that

he wasn't close enough and he'd miss. Right. Which he probably would have with those old-timey, you know. Yeah. They're not muskets and not AK-47s. Sounds like. Yeah. We shot him with a pistol, right?

Yeah, I was making a little joke. It was a joke. Norm. Norman. You ever heard of jokes? Can you tell us your favorite joke? Let's hear it. What goes buzz buzz pop pop?

I don't know. A BB gun. That's stupid. Brandy loves it. Classic. I never heard that joke before Look how proud you look Let's see

Relevant joke too There's a bee in here somewhere It's right there Is it a bee? It's a beetle Is it a stink bug? I have beetle. No, it's not. It's a beetle. Is it a stink bug? I have gotten three stink bugs out of my house today.

I got to see this. I think it is a stink bug. Oh, I think it is. Oh, God. We got to kill it. It is. You can't kill it. It'll smell. You got to take it out of your house.

I took four out of my house this morning. All right. Someone sniff it. Someone sniff it. Nuts. Where are these coming from? You have to sniff it. All right, what do I have to do?

I'm glad it's not just my house. It's our stinky house, too. I was concerned when I had four of them this morning. In all honesty, I was just scooching them outside so it could have been the same one. Hey buddy, I'm back. Don't know what happened earlier. He had a thing for faces. Is that it?

That sounds like he was super into faces. Yeah, like he was super into faces he does sound like he's really into faces okay Norm what'd you do with him I set him outside alright goodbye my lover goodbye my friend

he farted in my face when I let him go. Good riddance. So at any rate, Leon was locked up, but a lot of people suspected that he hadn't acted alone. Oh my God. Oh my God, there's another one! It's a bee! That's not a stink bug.

That's something else. Is that a bee? That might be a bee. Get it. Where is it? On the ceiling. Oh, there he is. Let him land.

Okay. Is it a bee? Let's see. Give me a bee. Oh, it is a stink bug. Oh, my God. What the hell? This is crazy.

Want to join your friend? Okay, look it up. What the hell is going on? What the hell is happening? Is this the end of days? It's not a locust invasion. It's a stink bug invasion. We don't deserve locusts.

My god, how many do you think are in here? I don't know. That's what I was. That's why I... That's what I see when I kept moving them out of my house today. I'm going to reward myself. Yeah, I would like to note that no stink bugs have been harmed in the production of this podcast. Or at my house this morning when I removed four from my house. I think we're being overtaken by stink bugs.

I think I'd like an award from PETA. Okay. Let's try this one more time lord damn where was i so they thought maybe there were more anarchists involved so i'll just tighten this up they locked up a bunch of anarchists including this woman emma goldman who was a really prominent anarchist and uh they but ultimately they let them go. It was clear that he had acted alone.

Meanwhile, people were very concerned about William McKinley. But initially he looked totally fine. Vice President Teddy Roosevelt rushed to his side.

So did a bunch of other officials. But it seemed so likely that he was going to recover that roosevelt immediately left for vacation what right that's weird what the fuck is that about right yeah terrible vice president pretty good president though he was like president i'm just gonna i'm gonna go hit up my vacation now because i'm probably not gonna be able to take one for the next four years.

Maybe that's what he was thinking. Well, he got... I don't think he was a president for a long time. Yeah, he was a long-ass time. So, you know, Roosevelt has just fucked off to the Adirondacks. Yeah. And for the first few days after the shooting, they fed William McKinley via nutritive aminas,

which I did not know was a thing, but Wikipedia claims it's a thing. I don't think an eminence is a thing. What did I say? Eminence? Enema. Enema. Eminence.

That's when they just shoot M&Ms up your butt. And that does give you some nutrients. A nutritive enema? Yeah, I didn't know it was a thing. That's a thing? That's what they gave him, because, I mean, he couldn't, you know, he'd been shot in the stomach.

Oh, so he couldn't digest anything. So they were just sticking hot dogs up his butthole? Oh, my. Is that not what you said? Brandy, this is a U.S. president. Imagine if someone were to say that about dear Donald Trump. I'm sorry. Okay.

So I don't even know how that would work. How do you keep the stuff up there long enough to gain, to absorb the nutritional value of it? I don't think this is a practice that is still done today. If it is, write it. don't think this is a practice that is still done today if it is write it if you've ever received a nutritive enema please let us know or an eminem so he was doing so well that you know one day they gave him some broth and that went well too so then the next day they're like all right it just oozed out the hole in his side oh god no God. No, he was all sewn up. Oh, God.

So it just pooled on his insides, probably. Well, yeah. These, I mean. Did he die of sepsis? You'll find out. Okay. So the next day, they gave him some toast, some chicken broth, and coffee. That's really good for you.

Right? Oh, he literally has a hole in his insides. He's got a bullet still in him. How about some coffee? Yeah, let's toss some coffee in there. He complained that he was in pain. And they were like, sounds like indigestion. You'll be fine. What?

So one of the things that I find so fascinating about Garfield's assassination was, you know, he was shot, too. And they believe that he died not because of being shot, but because of the medical care that he received. They like dug around in him with their bare hands, caused a ton of infection. They kept like trying to find the bullet. So they kept reaching around all in him. Ton of infection. They kept like trying to find the bullet. Yeah. So they kept reaching around all in him. Ton of infection. He died from that. And the other thing was

the doctors were assholes. So like, you know, they wanted to be the one who cured the president, blah, blah, blah. So they didn't want any outside medical opinions. And I'm wondering

if there was a bit of that here too. Yeah. Where like, oh no, the president's fine. The president's fine the president's fine oh he says he's in terrible pain no that's indigestion wow you know it's crazy because garfield died from medical you're about to make a joke i can see it on your face what kind of

cartoon are you about to know he's not He's joking. He's repeating what you said. I feel like Garfield, James Garfield died because of, you know, just the medical practices back then. You know, I was so waiting for you to make a Garfield died from lasagna joke that I didn't even... Wow. I did not even

understand. I can't remember where I read this. Shut up. But, in the days of Abraham Lincoln, if you wanted to meet with the president, What did you do? You just went to the White House and waited in line

and you could have a private meeting with him. My God! You know how many... You guys, are you writing this down? Do you get it? Do you?

Do you know how many podcasts Lincoln was on back then quick just a quick five minutes sir we just need five minutes of your time could you spell your name for us meanwhile people were like okay what are we to do with this shithead, Leon... Cheech and Chong? Cheech and Chong! What was his last name? Norman. Chowgosh.

Chowgosh, Cheech and Chong. Wow. At the time, attempted murder carried a maximum 10-year sentence. People were like, that's insane. He shot the president of the United States. He's going to get, like, 10 years max? Yeah, no no they were probably like well you should shoot him yeah now mr mckinley as soon as you're feeling better after

your nutritive eminem and i did it again oh no she's gonna spit oh no keep it in your mouth I had a vision of you spitting energy drink all over our equipment. Oh, my gosh. So the attorney general is like, oh, my gosh, I got to crack the books open. We got to get them on a federal law. This is ridiculous. So he's going through his old timey law books. And meanwhile, they were very current at that time. That's true. He's got the besty law books. And meanwhile, They were very current at that time. That's true.

They were. He's got the best new law books. Meanwhile, even though the doctors were like, everything's great. Why? Why do you ask?

Go away. William McKinley, in truth, was feeling terrible. He had gangrene. Oh, that smelled good. Right?

And he was just like, oh, he was all infected. Just a mess not to mention still had the bullet somewhere in his body finally on the evening of september 13th president remember he was shot on the sixth yeah president mckinley said it is useless, gentlemen. I think we ought to have a prayer. Ida came in. She was just a mess, crying.

She said, I want to go, too. I want to go, too. And he said, we're all going. We are all going. God's will be done, not ours. Oh, that gave me goosebumps. I know. It made me cry.

Well, yesterday, not right now, obviously. Then at 2.15 a.m. on September 14th, 1901, William McKinley died. Nine days later, Leon's trial started. Holy shit. I'm telling you, back in the day. Bang, bang, bang. Yeah. Lickety split. When asked how he pled, Leon said, guilty.

Okay. But Judge Truman White overruled him and entered a not guilty plea. Wow. Wow. Right. So this was the part where I was like, absolutely not. What? So I went into newspapers.com and what I found there,

it's still not satisfactory to me, but what it said was that a guilty plea was not permitted under the law for this crime. Okay. You could not plead guilty. It had to be not guilty. You couldn't admit you did it?

Evidently not. I shot the president. I shot the president. It was me. I shot the president in front of a crowd of people. Not sorry. Not acceptable.

We are going to have a long lengthy trial about it. Oh, this. Not acceptable. We are going to have a long, lengthy trial about it. Oh, this was not long. We're going to have a trial. Yeah. I mean, this was like, I'm telling you, they did things fast and dirty back then. Oh, fast and dirty. Well, you heard about the operation. So, you know, trial's starting.

And at this point, the defense stood up and they made a formal apology to the court. They wanted everyone to know that they were sorry that they were representing this client. Wow. But they wanted people to know that that was just what they were required to do under the law. They didn't actually like him or anything. Oh, my gosh. Right? You want like him or anything. Oh my gosh. Right? You want to talk about ineffective counsel?

No kidding. Your own attorneys are saying you're a shithead. I mean, the guy wanted to admit he did it. Yeah, but still, as someone's defense attorney, you don't stand up and say, hey everybody, don't hate me. I hate this guy too. I think he's a total bag of dicks. I don't blame him.

I think he's a total bag of dicks. I don't blame him one bit. That would suck. Well, no. I don't blame them for thinking that way, but you shouldn't say that when you're representing your client. Correct. But what if the guy is like, yep, I did it.

It was me. He's openly admitting he killed the guy. You still have a defense attorney. They don't want to be... He doesn't want defense attorneys. Norman Caruso. I mean, he makes a fair point. No, he doesn't.

I feel bad for those defense attorneys. They have to defend this guy? Who's openly admitting, I shot the president. He wanted to be guilty. He was like, I'm guilty. I did it. I'm guilty. Take me away.

All right, put me away. The stupid judge is like, well, you can't do it. Take me away. Sweet. It's okay. Wow. Natasha Bedingfield. She was there at the time.

Add that to the list of songs. Leon turned around, reached in his pocket, said, I got a pocket. I got a pocket full of sunshine. All right, you have to cut that. Why? It was beautiful. So anyway, the defense attorneys apologized to the court, which Norm thinks is A-OK behavior for a defense attorney.

In that circumstance, I think it is. The president of the United States has been shot and killed by a guy openly admitting, yep, I did it. What's a problem. Well, the problem is that then you give that person, that shitty person, an opportunity to appeal. But he doesn't want to appeal. He said, I did it. I'm guilty.

Well, yeah, and obviously back in the day, they're going to kill you before you even have the thought to appeal things. But if you were to do that today, then the person could just say, I had ineffective counsel. Check it out. Look what they did first day of my trial, and then you get an appeal. But what if they wanted to plead guilty? Okay, it's 1901. There's no appeals. This dude is going to get convicted, and he'll die three days later.

I'm worried that Norman's going to become a defense attorney, and he's going to be really shitty at it. I'm trying to stop him. I always feel bad for defense attorneys. They were like, no appeals shitty at it. I'm trying to stop him. I always feel bad for defense attorneys. There were like no appeals in 1901. I know that. And you're going to find him guilty and they'll be like, he'll hang tomorrow.

That's true. And be like, wait, excuse me, I wanted to appeal on an ineffective counsel. They'll be like, too bad. Yeah, they wouldn't even get that out.

When the sun is high in the sky, you shall hang for your crimes! Yeah, they executed Lincoln's, Lincoln's killers were executed very quickly.

Well, yeah, I mean, everyone was executed quickly. It wasn't until like the 70s that they like

took their time with it. It's crazy that Lincoln just let anyone come in the White House. He did? This is the first I'm hearing of this!

Norm, please tell us more about this policy. Oh, don't give us the hurry it up. Then, prosecutors Thomas Penny and Friedrich Haller got started, and over the course of two days, they presented their case. They called eyewitnesses to the shooting. Friedrich Haller got started. And over the course of two days, they presented their case. They called eyewitnesses to the shooting. They called the doctors who had treated William McKinley. The doctors all talked about the damage that the bullet had done to the president's body. And not at all about how they'd been fishing around in there, just tearing intestines apart.

Oh, why? Should we not do that? I took my ungloved, dirty hand, and I rooted around in the president's body. Why? What do you ask? What's wrong? Oh, he had gangrene? I can't imagine. I don't know.

They all said. Medical mystery. When they were at the World's Fair, they probably had all sorts of delicious junk food. Oh, yeah. Before digging around in that stomach. Oh, probably. Just, you know. Head funnel cake. Yeah. Look at the. Powdered yeah. Oh, probably. You know. Head funnel cake?

Yeah. Powdered sugar all over the space. Here's what they did. Let's get started. Cotton candy. Nurse, cotton candy. They said that the primary cause of death was the gunshot wound. i'm kind of like i don't know i feel like if you guys had left him alone maybe he would have been okay yeah but why had they never

found the bullet even during the autopsy they didn't find the bullet what so on the stand dr herman mentor explained the whole thing he told the jury that after several hours of cutting up the president's body, the first lady was like, that's enough. You need to stop. I think they went for like four hours trying to find this bullet until finally she was like, enough's enough. That's enough. Yeah.

We know he's dead. How about that? Yeah. So they never found the bullet. It was all Herfeld, you know. Yeah. Then it came time for defense attorneys Lauren Lewis and Robert Titus to present their case. Some people say there's a woman to blame.

But I'm not false. So many songs came up at this trial. This trial was actually an inspiration of many songs. A lot of people don't know that. Another thing a lot of people don't know, back in the day, if you wanted to talk to Abraham Lincoln, you just go right up to him. You just walked right in. Norman, did you hear this? You heard about this?

If you wanted to spend the night at the White House and sleep with Lincoln, you could. In the Lincoln bedroom. In the Lincoln bedroom. Scoot over, Mary Todd. No! So these defense attorneys, they stand up to present their case. There's just one big problem. They have no case?

They have no case! Their client had refused to speak to them. Wow. So here's the deal. In prison, Leon would talk to the guards. He'd talk to anybody. But the second his defense attorneys would walk in, nothing. They tried to send in a psychiatrist to determine his sanity.

Wouldn't speak to him. He wanted to be, I mean, he was an anarchist. He did this for his cause. He did not want to mess around. He's sticking it to the man. Yep. So here was the defense's argument. Our client

is insane. I mean, that's all they can argue. If you'd like proof of his insanity, just look at him. He just said he had a pocket full of sunshine.

just look at him he just said he had a pocket full of sunshine just think about this who shoots the president in public knowing he'll get caught only an insane person yeah thank you very much i miss m my case. So they called no witness. Again, I'm so sorry that I'm here. Again, don't want to be here. Hate every minute of it. I'm a great guy. Goodbye.

They called no witnesses. And again, they wanted it that way. Because these guys were former judges. They didn't want to ruin their reputations by vigorously defending the anarchist who murdered the president. And by the way, I thought this was interesting. I read that he was the most beloved president at the time of his assassination. Wow. Because, you know, Abraham Lincoln was controversial in his day.

Now we all love him. Well, except for the assholes. But who cares about them? Right. James Garfield hadn't been in office long enough to be loved yet. Yeah. And so, yeah, he was. Wow.

Anyway, in his closing argument, defense attorney Lauren Lewis spent most of his time talking about how great William McKinley was. The jury deliberated for less than half an hour. I bet. Mm hmm. He was sentenced to die by electric chair. Okay. Tomorrow. It's like, you know, it's not five o'clock yet.

We can probably get this in today. Okay, so listen to this. So he died September 14th, right? Yeah. When do you think he was put to death? Ooh. Wait, so McKinley died September 14th. October 14th.

One month later. September 27th. October 29th. Wow. Yeah, it's fucking fast. Very quick. That's very quick. Man.

Leon's last words were, I killed the president because he was the enemy of the good people, the working people. I'm not sorry for my crime. I am sorry I could not see my father. Wow. They killed him, poured acid all over his body, put him in a coffin, and buried what was left of him on the prison grounds. I'm sorry, what's with the acid? Yeah, why did they have to pour acid on him?

What? That seems excessive. Well, they really fucking hated him. Oh my goodness. So apparently, and I didn't write this down, apparently he's- Everybody drink! His family wanted to take his body to go bury,

but they were like, you can't, you're not gonna be able to walk out of here with that body. You're gonna get mauled. People are gonna be real gross about it wow so they thought it was better to kill him and pour acid all over him and yeah they were doing the electric chair in 1901 had to have been pretty new that's shocking that must have been very new kr Kristen. I didn't mean that. I didn't mean that.

Oh, did you say shocking? I was not making a joke. I'm just naturally hilarious. Kristen. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. I do find that surprising, given the time. Yeah.

That had to have been debuted at the World's Fair. And then two weeks later, they put Leon in it. Seriously? That sucks. Yikes. debuted at the world's fair and then like two weeks later they put leon in it seriously yikes um in the aftermath of all this i want to say something kind of cool so james parker the guy who stopped the president yeah being shot a third time he wasn't wealthy at all and after his heroic act a lot of different companies reached out to him trying to give him, like, make a deal with him. Like, hey, we'll take your picture and we'll sell it to people and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But James Parker refused every opportunity to make money off of this story.

Oh, my gosh. He said, I do not think that the American people would like me to make capital out of the unfortunate circumstances. I am glad that I was able to be of service to the country. Oh, that gave me goosebumps. What a guy. Oh, seriously. This part of the story was so cool to me, because especially when it looked like the president might live. It looked like the president might live.

Yeah. And all because this man who had been born into slavery had stood up and been the one guy to stop the assassin. Oh, God, I've got goosebumps. Yes. Like, especially African-Americans were so proud. And like he was he was on the front page of all these different newspapers being like this hero. Yeah. Oh, wow. of all these different newspapers as being like this hero yeah oh wow but what did we learn from william mckinley's assassination um hopefully lots of things about security yeah yeah okay

so presidents need protection after the assassination assassination, President Teddy Roosevelt received... That's why Teddy Roosevelt uses Trojan man condoms. Whoa, daddy. I don't know what you meant. I don't know what I meant. But that wasn't enough. The Trojan wasn't enough. So you put

on two Trojans. Turns out, that's even worse. It sounds like it would be more effective it's actually less effective friction but you know they didn't know 1901 no so he received full-time protection but it wasn't enough and people wanted it set in stone because they were afraid like okay he gets this the next president's like well i'm loosey-goosey i don't care so in 1906 congress passed legislation making it official that the Secret Service was in charge of protecting the president. And that's the story of the assassination of William McKinley.

That's crazy. Were you bored to death? I was not. Oh, very good. No, that was very interesting. I will say, I kind of felt like I was making fun a little of him like always wanting to just like go out on his own without protection but when in interviews I've seen with like Michelle Obama she talks about being out of the White House and all that stuff and like the first time she was

able to like open a window without having to ask someone's permission or like go for a walk and I just can't imagine that life yeah not at all that would be horrible i feel like i'd be trying to sneak out too yeah not to meet people though what was that what was that movie what movie there's a movie like the president my date with the president's daughter is that it no uh it was like the the president's daughter was like dating liberty yeah or like she was sick of being cooped up in the wild, so she like... First daughter? First daughter. Yeah, she like sneaks out.

Yeah. To like go out on the town without protection. They're like... Is it Mandy Moore? Oh, that sounds familiar. Yeah, maybe. Let's see. That's basically the plot.

So Michelle Obama probably just watched that movie. Oh, Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes. Yeah, Katie Holmes. Oh. Yeah. She like sneaks out and the president's free to go, where's my daughter? And they're all looking for her, but she's like out on the town. Oh, wait.

This might not be the same movie. Dating this hot dude. Her first daughter is where she goes off to college. Hmm. You know what I'm talking about, though, right? I do. I think it's My Date with the President's Daughter. I think it is My Date with the President's Daughter.

Listener homework. Find out what movie My Date with the President's Daughter. I think it is My Date with the President's Daughter. Listener homework. Find out what movie that is. We've already given them. Also find out the phrase for someone who can recognize faces. Oh, a teenager unwittingly falls for the American

President's Daughter and the pair soon find themselves off on a wild adventure. It's the dude from Boy Meets World. Yeah, My Date with the President's Daughter? Yeah, 1998. That's the one. I had a wild adventure. It's the dude from Boy Meets World. Yeah, My Date with the President's Daughter. Yeah, that's the one.

I had a theme song. My date with the President's Daughter. Oh, yeah. My date. I've never seen this. Oh, this is a show. It's not a show. This is a show. It's a made-for-TV movie. No, it's a film. It's a television film. This is a...

It's the Wonderful World of Disney. Oh, no, it's made for the Wonderful World of Disney. It was like a television film. This is a... It's the Wonderful World of Disney. It's made from the Wonderful World of Disney. It was like a TV movie. Okay. I've never seen this. I've got a bone to pick with you. Oh, what? Do you see this red injury to my mouth?

I am injured. Listen, ma'am. Because you can't handle yourself with an alcoholic Freezy Pop, don't come at me. You see me? I'm just fine. How? I did not feel a thing. The next day at around noon, I was like, what is my, the side of my mouth hurts so much.

And I remembered Saboteur. Saboteur. Those were delicious. They were so good. You guys, alcoholic Freeur those were delicious they were so good you guys alcoholic freezy pops they're so good norm what'd you think of the alcoholic freezy pop fun times yeah yeah next time worth the injuries no we're gonna put it into the cup yes i sure will okay then when you get all sliced i don't think anyone's ever called me a pussy before I don't think I've ever called anyone a pussy before

You were just waiting for this moment Should we talk about a gamer? Yeah Norm you ready? Yeah Can we talk about a gamer? Always This is bad

I was gonna say I don't see why you're Acting all upbeat It's real real bad great bad bad real bad wait on a brandy scale can we get the brandy scale on how bad it is it's pretty bad okay a five is like yeah give me some reference points so a five is that one where all those girls like beat up, mutilated, tortured that 12 year old girl. That's a five. Is this a scale out of 10 or. No, it's a scale of one to five.

Holy shit. I was very concerned that that was the five. No, no, no. This is like the most intense. Worst case I've ever covered. And a one. Well, you don't even do light cases. So I'm going to pull out one of mine.

Mine is, you know, the wow potato chips where people had a bunch of farts. Just sugar. Yeah. This is a three and a half. Oh. There's a sledgehammer involved. Oh, God. Okay.

For straight off the bat, shout outs to William DeLong for allthingsinteresting.com and Emily Thompson for morbidology.com and then special shout out oh boy who is my boy david kratichick no phil mcgraw you might know him as dr phil um he did a special on this case and watched it, loved every minute of it. It was like I was being forced to watch Dr. Phil. You finally had a reason. I had a whole reason to watch Dr. Phil. Not just because I love him, but because it was for research purposes.

Do you really love Dr. Phil? I think he's so arrogant. Yeah, I love Dr. Phil. Okay. I don't know why I asked. I know you love Dr. Phil. Yeah. Why are you looking at me like that? Because of course I love Dr. Phil okay I don't know why I asked I know you love Dr. Phil yeah why are you looking because of course I love Dr. Phil I feel like this is a well-known fact about me but you don't find him arrogant

irritating not irritating arrogant yes okay yeah is this how the podcast ends a disagreement no but you know okay but here's the other thing like that arrogance doesn't bother me because i fucking love dax shepherd and he's arrogant as hell so you know what okay this is a big i feel like we don't have a ton of differences yeah we have a big difference arrogance in straight white men yeah i find so obnoxious yeah like so so so obnoxious and you're like no that's not how i am about it i feel like it would be very difficult to be a straight white male and not be super arrogant because our society cultivates it yeah that's why i find it so annoying when they are so you forgive them for it and i'm like yeah yes i

guess i do oh gosh because i think that like i don't know this is so not a topic that we need to debate let's do it i think dack shepherd tries to fight against it like he knows that he has it and that it is his white male privilege yeah and he recognizes it and i feel like dr phil is the same way but like really i don't think oh i do okay yeah okay if they were just like big douchey douchebags about it no i wouldn't forgive it but i think both of them are aware of their white male privilege and what it gets them and are apologetic for it wow i've got breaking news what is it amber geiger has been sentenced what what'd she get oh my god let's let's take some guesses oh my god don't do this to me norman i've've got to know now. Kristen. Norman. Brandy. I think it's going to be low.

Ten years. Yep. No. I fucking told you. What did I tell you? You did. That is exactly what I told you. Okay, Norman, fill people in if people are like, who's Amber Geiger?

If you're unfamiliar, Amber Geiger is the police officer who walked into Botham Jean's apartment. She walked into the, they lived in the same apartment complex. She walked into Botham Jean's apartment. She walked into the... They lived in the same apartment complex. She walked into Botham Jean's apartment. He was a 20-something... 27, I think. 27-year-old black male. He was sitting in his living room eating ice cream.

She walked into his apartment and shot him. And killed him. And killed him. Yeah. So just yesterday, she was found guilty of his murder and then today was sentenced so we were discussing this before we recorded and we were talking about how we were both really scared that the jury was not going to find her guilty so she is a police officer um and she i thought for sure she was gonna i thought for sure she was gonna get away

with it too so we were both really relieved when the jury found her guilty but i said to you when we were discussing this i think because of a question the jury asked that they will come back with a light sentence because i bet that they were they asked about castle doctrine which was like that's when they asked about that that i was like oh fuck they're gonna find them not guilty. Hang on, I'm going to look up Castle Doctrine. Yeah. Rightfully so, people are outraged. Yeah. That someone who murdered somebody is getting only 10 years. I am not the least bit surprised, though. I think it's completely wrong.

I think she should get way longer than that. And she'll be parole eligible after five years. Yeah. Fuck that. Yeah, that's so fucked up. The application of Castle Doctrine to this just drives me crazy because she was not protecting her own home no but she claims she thought she was well then she's a fucking idiot i agree i completely agree and you shouldn't be allowed to have a gun if you're that dumb yeah and i don't care if you were sexting with your

partner did you see that excuse oh yeah oh she was distracted because she'd been sexting she was overtired she was sexting and distracted she thought she was in her own apartment also fyi the state wanted the sentence to be 28 years yeah sure yeah i that would that would have been the age of botham jean if he were alive today so it was kind of a yeah symbolic symbolic sentencing yeah because he had a birthday during this trial right well he didn't because she murdered him yeah but yeah yeah that whole thing i fucking knew that that's what they're gonna do they're gonna come back with a light sentence you know i was so relieved that they found her guilty that i

didn't even think about the sentence you've got to ask yourself if it were reversed if botham jean you don't even got into amber geiger's apartment and shot her, what would the sentence be? Yeah. Yeah. He would have been done. Yep. No question. Her whole thing of,

first of all, the crying on the stand. Mm-hmm. Fuck off. Yeah. If you feel that bad, you plead guilty. Yeah.

You try to get a plea deal. Yeah. That's how I feel about it. And the thing of, oh, he was coming at me. I thought he was going to murder me. Dude had a bowl of ice cream. Yeah. You caught him on a couch. What kind of murderer comes into your house, breaks in, helps himself to vanilla ice cream, watches TV and just like waits for you. Right. So fucked up. And the coroner, of course, said that the bullet was going downward. So he was in a cowering position or he was like getting up. So, yeah. Oh, that's deeply upsetting. But I'm not surprised. So 10 years? 10 years.

Oh. What do we do about this? What charity do we start? Seriously. Let's start a non-profit called the White People Justice League. You can apply and we give you the amount of money you need to get some white people justice. Yeah. Does everyone like my charity? I my charity so i don't know that

that's gonna be real popular kristin police won't like it maybe that's what it needs to be police justice police justice yeah yeah oh sorry to bust that out before your case but no no thank you that's breaking news. I really like that. I mean, I like that we brought in the breaking news. I don't like the sentence. You know, we were talking about this in the Discord. Sorry, that sounds like a gross plug. It's really not. It's not.

We were talking about this in the Discord yesterday when the sentence came out. Or, I'm sorry, when the verdict came out. And, you know, we've got a lot of international people in there. And I remember somebody was like, you know, wow, you know we've got a lot of international people in there and i remember somebody was like you know wow you know violence in america so scary blah blah that kind of thing and i didn't say it then but it's like to me what is so upsetting about this isn't like violence in america even though that is scary and yeah but this is like this is racist violence in America. Yeah.

Because as a white person, I'm not afraid of the cops. Yeah. I have no reason to be afraid of the cops. Yeah. But a black man can't sit in his own fucking living room? Yeah. Yeah, it's terrifying.

All right, I think we have to move on. Some perspective. Yeah. This is in Texas. Yeah. Texas also recently sentenced a woman to five years in prison

for trying to vote while on probation. Holy shit. That's great. That's great. I will leave it at that that you want to say something else kristin no i'm super fucking pissed yeah all right let's talk about a horrible case oh great involving a gamer okay norm this one's for you thank you i wouldn't get too excited zachary davis had always been a quiet boy an odd boy but a sweet boy he had struggles from a very early age. His parents thought that he was probably suffering

from some form of mental illness. But he managed to have a pretty normal childhood. They didn't seek help for him until 2007 when Zach was nine years old and his father died of ALS. Oh. At that point, Zach was kind of sent into a tailspin, a downward spiral. He withdrew. He rarely spoke.

When he did, he spoke like in this weird whisper. And his mother thought that he for sure needed to get into some therapy. And she sought help for him. So she sent him to some psychiatrists and a couple of different ones. And he had like four sessions where he was diagnosed as schizophrenic. He told one of his psychologists that he was hearing his father's voice, that his father's voice was speaking to him regularly. But they didn't necessarily think that was super alarming at that point. They thought maybe it was his way of handling his grief. Everybody goes through

the bereavement process differently. And it seemed like that's maybe what Zach was doing. But as time passed, and the family tried to kind of get back to normal, it was Zach and his older brother, and then his mother, they moved away from where they'd been living. They moved to Tennessee, kind of away from some family. That wasn't the intent of the move, but it kind of disconnected them from Zach's paternal grandparents. And really, his mom was just kind of looking to get a fresh start and try and take care of her sons the best way she knew how. So they moved to Tennessee and Zach continued to see a psychologist here and there. But he wasn't, he wasn't progressing through the bereavement process like everyone else was. He went through the depression and the denial and all of that. But then the part where you start coping with it never happened and the psychiatrist diagnosed him as schizophrenic and said how old uh he was like

nine or ten when they diagnosed i thought you don't get really diagnosed typically yeah typically in boys it's like um it's in your teenage years 17 to 20 right in women it's in your teenage years, 17 to 20. Right. In women, it's typically much older, well into your 30s typically, before a diagnosis like that is likely. But it happens. If you remember in the Slenderman case, one of those girls was 13 when she was diagnosed as schizophrenic, which is super out of the norm for girls.

But there was definitely stuff going on with Zach. And the claims of hearing his father's disembodied voice did not go away. And neither did his detachment and his he was continuing to be withdrawn. He was. Odd and teased in school, he wore the same hoodie every day to school. He refused to speak in a normal voice. He spoke in this really like low, whispery. But Melanie worked hard to try and give Zach

and his brother, I believe his brother's name is Josh, a normal life. She worked as a paralegal. She was super athletic. She was like a triathlete. And all she wanted was for her boys to have somewhat of a normal life following their father's death. By the time that Zach was 15, though, he had lost pretty much all grasp on reality. And much of it he was able to kind of keep from his mom.

He was able to put up a front or say as little as possible to her so that she wasn't constantly concerned about him. Because she ended up pulling him out of therapy and not continuing his therapy for whatever reason. Wow. That decision is one that would be heavily criticized by Zach's paternal grandparents. Yeah, they said that had she not done that, that what eventually happens in this case never would have happened. Could she not afford it? I'm wondering if that was the case that she couldn't afford it or because surely you wouldn't just take your schizophrenic kid out of or possibly he refused to go he's a 15 year old kid maybe he's like i don't need it i don't want to go too fucking bad right but you're trying to let your kid have as normal of a life as possible

i think it's possible that she could have said okay i'm not gonna force you to go he became obsessed with serial killers um and one article that i read that this is really funny said that he wrote disturbing disturbing things in his notebooks including wait for the whole passage christian he wrote disturbing things in his notebooks including um you can't spell slaughter without Yeah, it's not good. And then, the most concerning thing of all. What? He read the Stephen King novel, Misery, and played violent video games. Dun, dun, dun!

Dun, dun, dun! Mm-hmm. The makings of a psycho. Clearly, yeah. So they make this big deal about how he read stephen king books and he played all these video games and clearly those were the things that led to what would happen people are so ridiculous they didn't mention the schizophrenia no yeah i just thought minor detail of the schizophrenia and the lack of of mental health. Who's heard of Stephen King anyway? No one reads his books.

I'm just saying, misery is on the softer side of the Stephen King novels. It is. Well, I mean, if you're an author, maybe you don't see a lot of misery.

Is that your worst nightmare? Despite the withdrawn behavior and the clear issues with mental illness zach was never outwardly violent he'd never put a hand on his mother he'd never put a hand on his brother there were not issues like that in the house until august 10th 2012 on that day everything was pretty normal zach and his mom and his brother josh went to the movie together his brother was 16 and he was 15 so they were just you know a year apart pretty close um they went and saw the campaign what's that i don't remember that it's uh isn't it will ferrell and zach galifianakis? Am I making that up? Oh, yeah.

Comedy. Yeah. Oh, didn't do great. 66. For some reason, I was thinking of the Robin Williams movie, but that's Man of the Year. Man of the Year, yeah. So they went and saw the campaign. They came home, and Zach went and played video games.

By 9 o'clock, his mom, Melanie, went to bed. Shortly after that, Josh went to bed. And sometime along the way, Zach packed himself a backpack. In the backpack, he put his journals, some clothes, a toothbrush, a ski mask. Oh, God. Gloves, a claw hammer. Oh, God. Gloves.

A claw hammer. And then when he was sure that everyone was asleep, he went to the garage. Or the basement. One article says the garage. One article says the basement. Okay. It's not that important.

I believe he said the garage on the Dr. Phil episode. It could also be one of those houses where it's a combo deal. It could be. Absolutely. And he got a sledgehammer and then he went to his mother's room and while she laid in her bed oh god asleep he lifted the sledgehammer above her head and bludgeoned her to death god he laughed the entire time and he ended up striking her in the head he claims about 20 times the medical examiner said it was at least eight times but could have been much higher i always think it's kind of weird when they try to pin this down. Cause it's like, okay, he hit her again and again and again with a hammer.

Yeah. Like a 20 pound sledgehammer. So the Dr. Phil episode that I watched about this was really interesting because it, the interview. So Dr. Phil actually interviews Zach on this episode. He is being held in jail before his trial.

Right. And so he admits in this interview to Dr. Phil what he did. And when Dr. Phil asked him why he picked a sledgehammer, he said, I wanted to make sure I didn't miss. Oh, God. He said, I wanted to make sure I didn't miss. Oh, God. And I mentioned that people talked about how Zach talked. He talked in this weird, like, low whisper.

And he talked like that throughout this entire interview. He did not speak in a normal voice at all. And he randomly laughed during the interview with Dr. Phil as well. And so Dr. Phil asked him lots of questions about, you know, why'd you pick the sledgehammer? How many times do you think you hit her? Did you laugh while you were doing it? And he says, you know, yes, I did. And he said, why, why did you, why'd you laugh while you were killing your mother? And he said he thought it was funny at the time. And he asked him why he did it. And he said she wasn't taking care of her family.

And he said, meaning you and your brother? And he said, yeah, she wasn't taking care of us. In what way? He didn't elaborate. So Dr. Phil goes, he kind of dissects these interviews with Zach later in the show, because people have all of these questions about what his tone and the weird laughter because he literally like we'll be having a he'll be explaining something and then just break into laughter. And so Dr. Phil talked about how he believes that it's a manifestation of his schizophrenia, where there is an alternate reality playing in his head. And while he's trying to carry on a conversation, he can't just tune that out. So it's actually a reaction to whatever's happening in his head, rather than to whatever is happening on the outside. That really sad it is it's super sad it is horribly sad it's

was very difficult to watch um these i can't even begin to tell you to describe to you how he speaks and his mannerisms and everything so he also has like this weird way of nodding he it's it is very clear that this is a deeply disturbed individual right that did this that night so back to that night yeah he has bludgeoned his mother to death hit her 20 times with a sledgehammer he decides that she's dead and he leaves her bedroom and locks the door. Locks her in her bedroom. And then. Wait, he murdered her and then locked her.

In the bedroom. He locked the bedroom door. Yes. Okay. So his little brother couldn't get into it? Older brother, but essentially probably yes. But he also made an attempt to kill his brother yeah he then went to the game room where like their game consoles and stuff were set up and he poured gasoline and whiskey all over the floor

and the walls and then he set it on fire oh my gosh with the intent of burning the house down but as he was leaving so as he left the game room, he pulled the door closed. And like the door sealed in such a way that it kept like the fire burn up all the oxygen and then burn itself out. It did not spread to the rest of the house. Wow. Yeah. And so. Zach grabs that backpack that he had packed.

And so Zach grabs that backpack that he had packed. He leaves the house on foot and he ditches his cell phone along the way so that police will not be able to track him. Meanwhile, the smoke detectors go off in the house. So Josh is awoken. This is Zach's brother by the smoke detectors. He comes out of his room. He sees that the game room door is closed and that his mom's bedroom is closed he initially goes to his mom's bedroom and the door is locked and so he's like oh my gosh she's locked the door like whatever i she's not going to hear this he

breaks down the door to get in to save his mother and he is greeted with a gruesome scene. There's blood fucking everywhere. And so he runs to the neighbor's house for help. Police come. They extinguish whatever's left of a fire. And then the search is on to find Zach, who is obviously the person who did this. who is obviously the person who did this. Five hours later, they find him walking down the highway with his backpack on him, with all of that stuff in it. They arrest him and he confesses immediately.

Sure. Tells them exactly what he did, that he murdered his mother while she slept, that he attempted to murder his brother, murdered his mother while she slept, that he attempted to murder his brother. And that there's like his full confession is videotaped. And he just tells it in that same weird draw that he has. And he smirks and laughs the entire time. And at this point, the police aren't aware of his mental health diagnosis.

And so they're like like we've got a maniac on our hands here and their initial take is that this this guy wanted to be a serial killer which gosh i just don't think that that's the case at all and that's what some of the articles said like would be serial killer you know arrested and I feel like a serial killer would have random targets. They wouldn't kill someone close to them. Yeah, and I just think it's so clear that this kid is suffering from a horrible mental illness and did not get the care he needed. Yeah.

I do think that it's pretty shitty of the grandparents to be like, well, if Melanie would have kept him in mental, if she would have kept him in care, this never would have happened to her. When you said that she died, I could not believe. But then the grandparents came out with, well, this was all her fault, really. I mean, yes. Yeah. That's awful.

If she wouldn't have taken him out of that treatment, then maybe this whole thing could have been avoided. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, I thought that was just a terrible take. That's beyond blaming the victim. So they actually, the grandmother testifies to that at Zach's trial. Jesus Christ. And her, I think the point that she was trying to make was a plea for leniency for Zach.

Because this is a, just a boy who didn't get the help that he needed. But gosh, I thought that came off terrible. Yeah. So obviously zach's arrested he confesses um but gets a defense team and they decide that they're gonna plead not guilty by reason of insanity which if i've ever seen a case that yeah meets those requirements i feel like this is it. In April of 2015, his trial begins. A jury of seven men and five women is seated. And they determined that, well, a judge determined that Zach would be tried as an adult. The defense attorney and their opening statements got up there and said, you're going to see a confession here. You are going to see that

there was love and harmony in this home. And then on this day, something happened happened that led to this horrible event. Don't be misled by what the prosecution tells you that this is a horrible monster. This is a sick individual. The defense said, yes, he admits that he did this. We are not saying that he didn't do this. He will get on the stand and he will tell you that he did this horrible thing. But that doesn't mean that he is guilty. Zach was suffering from an untreated mental illness at the time of the murders. And for that reason, he doesn't need to be held in a prison. He needs mental health care. But the prosecution maintained that this was a kid who had been, who had premeditated this murder.

He had held these evil thoughts. He had written about them in his journals. He had absorbed them through the media that he was subjected to, through those violent video games and the books that he chose to read and the music that he chose to listen to and the apps that he chose to have on his phone then why aren't we all murderers exactly exactly what video games did he play they never mentioned specific video games i'm shocked usually they pick one and they're like grand theft auto did this no i mean is there a is there a video game where you sledgehammer your mother to death? I don't think so.

Let's ask our gaming expert. Hey, gaming historian. Are you aware of any video games? Not aware of any of that. Yeah, I didn't think so. If it's 2012, I'm going to guess. Halo? Halo, Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto.

All the popular games atft Auto. Yeah. All the popular, you know, games at the time. Yeah. I just think that's such a ridiculous argument. And obviously we've done a whole episode where we talked about this. But like millions of people play violent video games and do not sledgehammer their mothers to death. Or hurt people in any way um and it's always ridiculous when when that argument comes i think donald trump even blamed video games for one of those mass shootings oh i think the el paso shooting i think it was yeah or even i think oh

wait was it one of the school shootings even after after the Vegas shooting, I think he brought in video game developers to the White House to talk to them about violent video games. But it's like, violent video games are all around the world. Japan has possibly way more gruesome violent video games. And there's no mass murders in Japan. And Columbine, they tried to blame Doom. And Marilyn Manson. Marilyn Manson music. There's always something else.

And obviously in this case, this guy had severe mental health issues. Yeah. When you're schizophrenic. Yeah. So at Zach's trial, the defense called Dr. Bradley Freeman. Dr. Bradley Freeman was the psychiatrist that had examined Zachary right after his father's death. So he had seen him like four times. Yes. Was Zachary on medication? I don't know. Okay. I don't believe so. Wow. I didn't believe so. Wow.

I didn't come across anything that said that he was on medication at the time that this happened. I mean, granted, I don't know anything about schizophrenia, but my assumption would be that you'd be on medication and do therapy. So I am wondering, because he only saw this doctor for, you know, four visits and then then was taken out of treatment with him that maybe it didn't get to a point where they was like, so on the stand, he says that, you know, Zach came to him at his mother's request following the death of his father when he was super depressed. And that that is when Zach had told him that he was hearing his father's voice, and that he was pretty sure at that time that Zach was schizophrenic. But maybe he didn't have a full diagnosis at that time. The defense then called a second psychiatrist who had examined Zach at the time of the murders,

following the murders, and said, for sure, I have the same diagnosis. He is schizophrenic. He needs help, not prison. One of the psychiatrists, I'm not sure if it was Dr. Freeman or if it was the second one who examined him later, said that Zachary suffering from schizophrenia meant that he could not form the necessary thought process which was needed in order to commit first degree murder because of his schizophrenia despite what he did despite any pre-planning that the prosecution wants to say went on the the necessary thought process was not there the psychiatrist went on to say his judgment was driven by psychosis. That's what I believe prevents him from premeditating this crime. Wow.

So even though maybe he packed a bag before he did it, he wrote in his journal that he was going to do this. Yeah. He lacked the necessary thought process to be able to see if I do this then this will be the end result okay and that was dr freeman the initial psychiatrist um the one who had seen him post-murder um saw him many times had like 30 visits with him and said, I've never encountered someone so severely detached from his emotions. On that note, in the interview that Dr. Phil has with him on his show, he asked him if he, he asked Zach if he ever cries. And he said, yeah, I cry sometimes. And he said, did you cry when you killed your mother? And he said, no. And he said, if you were driving a car and you hit someone and killed them, would you cry then?

And he said, if it was an accident, no, I wouldn't. Because it's just an accident. I mean, I just think like... Under what circumstances would he cry? Right. I don't know. He said he... Probably something that would only directly impact... Impact him.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. would only directly impact him huh yeah yeah yeah throughout the trial so it's a four-day trial it's a pretty quick trial but throughout the entire time he's in the courtroom while he's sitting at the defense table zach just randomly breaks into laughter which i think was probably important for the jury to see yeah i mean it just shows you that this is clearly a person who is severely mentally ill yeah on the third day of the trial zach took the stand in his own defense oh god i don't know why they would do this. No. And from the minute he took the stand, it went badly. Well, of course.

He got on the stand and said something that shocked his own attorney. Well, that's great. You're supposed to really surprise your own attorneys. He said, I didn't do it. Oh, come on. I took the fall for my brother. Oh, come on. he's the one that killed her with a sledgehammer yeah no honey yeah and so the courtroom is like yeah exactly and his defense lawyer has to be like no remember we we have your confession we have the videotape of it um we've talked about this you know you have we need you to

tell the truth up here and and he said i didn't kill her so the attorney has to be like try and like get him back and i i know at that point the attorney was like fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck why did i put him on the stand why did i put him on the stand well my god it almost seems like it bolsters the insanity i agree i actually do agree with that well and maybe that was maybe that was the point the whole time yeah yeah so the prosecution argued that regardless of mental illness zach had meticulously planned the attack he had written his plans in his diary he had poured the gasoline and the whiskey to set the whole house on fire and he fled the home with a packed bag and had the forethought to ditch his cell phone

so that they couldn't track him. This was all clear indications of premeditation. And then the court watched Dr. Phil's interview with Zach in its entirety. You're kidding me. Isn't that nuts? They played the whole interview for the jury, for the judge in the courtroom. You're kidding me. Isn't that nuts? They played the whole interview for the jury, for the judge

in the courtroom. If you were in the jury, would you have just been thrilled? I would have. I'd be like, oh, Dr. Phil, tell me all about it. I feel like I'm just having an afternoon at home.

So that's presented. And Dr. Phil, there's this part in the interview with Dr phil where he looks at zach and he says he says you know i look in your eyes and i don't see evil i see lost i see sick another unexpected twist in the trial happened when zach's diary was presented for the jury. And this was taken from him when he was arrested. It had been in his backpack. And on the day of the murder, Zach had wrote an entry where he claimed that his brother had raped him that day. It said, I was raped by him,

and I've been planning to kill him ever since. And then following the murder that same day, he wrote, I killed Melanie and left Josh alone to suffer. I didn't feel anything. I didn't feel remorse. My only true regret was that I didn't give her a faster death. I didn't want her to suffer. Oh, geez.

Obviously, the claims of her, of his brother raping him were not true. That was thoroughly investigated by Child Protective Services. And there was no truth found to any of it. It was just like another weird aspect of like this. The way Dr. Phil describes it is like there's this movie playing in his head and it's just like an alternate version of that my god yeah the taped confession was also played in court and in it he explained his reasoning behind using the sledge hammer where he said i was worried that i'd miss and the sledgehammer where he said, I was worried that I'd miss

and the sledgehammer gave me the highest chance of killing her. On the tape, he was asked by a detective if he could go back in time, would he still carry out the attack? And he said, yes, but I'd probably kill Josh with the sledgehammer too oh geez family members testified that they never believed that there was anything seriously wrong with zach they knew that he was odd and that you know he wasn't like every other kid but never had any indication that he was capable of violence that he'd had a good relationship with his mother. In fact, a Tennessee Bureau of Investigation computer forensic expert got on the stand and corroborated this. He said that while they were investigating Zach's phone, they found text

messages, family text messages. And on that very day, there had been i love you texts between zach and his mom and many other pleasantries between the family in a group text right after four days the jury deliberated and they sided with the prosecution they found him guilty and sentenced him to life in prison. Wow. I don't understand that verdict at all. I just don't understand how you look at him and don't see that he's seriously ill. Yeah.

I just don't get it. Do you think they thought that it was an act? Just a total act? I think that's possible. What state was this in? Tennessee. Yeah, I just cannot wrap my head around that. When the judge delivered his sentence, he said to Zach,

He said to Zach, the thing that bothers me is that you have shown no regrets, no remorse in murdering your own mother at age 15. So he was sentenced to life in prison plus 20 years for the attempted murder of his brother. The way that that will work in Tennessee. So in Tennessee, a life sentence is 60 years and he'll be eligible for parole after I think it's like 51 years. Okay. But the 20 years is added on to the end of that. Okay. It does not run at the same time. Wow. Yeah. So he'll be in there. He'll spend the rest of his life in prison. And the prosecution believes exactly what you just said maybe the jury did. They said, I think that Zach Davis is a little bit smarter and a little bit wilier than we give him credit for, meaning that they thought it was an act.

Come on. I don't believe that. I just don't. I don't think it's an act at all. I hate how black and white the prosecution is sometimes yeah i just i urge you to check out you can see just clips of dr phil's interview with zach on youtube watch a couple of them i don't know how you can walk away from those interviews and see that he's anything but a very sick

young man or an amazing actor if you believe the prosecution the judge did say that he would recommend that he goes to a facility that focuses on mental health and not just a regular prison well that's nice

yeah that's the story of one disturbed gamer oh it was a rough one it was rough yeah and so we i really hate the ones where there's mental illness involved just because i feel like we know so little about it. I agree. And there's a huge chance that we're just compounding the tragedy. I think that's exactly what's happened. Yeah. I think that this kid was hugely impacted by the loss of his father. And it set off this horrible mental illness.

Right. And then he didn't, for whatever reason, I don't think it's anybody's fault. I don't think it's the mother's fault. But for whatever reason, I don't think it's anybody's fault. I don't think it's the mother's fault. But for whatever reason, he didn't receive the care that he needed. And it led to this horrible thing happening. To blame the mother is gross. Disgusting. Yeah.

And I do, I will give the grandmother a little bit of credit. I do think that she was trying to make a plea for leniency, but it sounds disgusting the way that she said it. trying to make a plea for leniency but it sounds disgusting the way that she said it but mental health care is not always easily accessible so the people don't often know how to get access to the resources we have and we don't have the greatest resources available oftentimes so where in tennessee were they um i don't know So the first doctor that he saw was at Vanderbilt. Hmm. And then I don't know from there. Okay.

Just wondering. I know it can be really hard in rural areas. Yeah, I'm not sure if they were in a rural area or not. Sumner County is where they lived. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know enough about Tennessee to know if this is rural or not. Norm, do you have questions for us to bring up the mood? I do.

I was going to say, do you want me to lighten it up a little bit? Yes, please. Yes, fucking please. Hey, could we do a quick fun fact? Yeah. Okay. Totally fun fact. Just found out about this.

Did you guys know that back in the day, if you wanted to talk to a president, you could just walk? Was this like in the age of like Abrahamraham lincoln you know what it was it absolutely was isn't that nuts that is crazy i mean it could never happen today no but it happened back then and a lot of people don't know you keep making fun of lincoln you're not going to get him on this podcast. Okay. Norm, where did you get these questions from? Your Discord. Wow. Amazing.

Kristen, what's a Discord? Well, it's like a 90s chat room. It's amazing. And it's just for people in the $5 and $7 level of our patron, Patreon. Wow. You're so well-versed in art.

Ask me anything. Gadriel wants to know your favorite court shows, such as People's Court, Judge Judy, et cetera, et cetera. Ooh, I like Judge Judy. I also like Judge Joe Brown, because he's, you know, I don't even think he's on anymore, but he used to be on. And he was just no fuss. Well, sure. Yeah. My mom and I always watched Judge

Judy. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's not something I ever really watch but you know, if it's on, I'm not going to turn off Judge Judy. No, same. My favorite was when one time a lady walked into her courtroom with a spaghetti strap dress. No! She goes, that is not a court dress madam and then

she made the lady leave and she was like a key witness so i mean you know judge judy dp the other day was petitioning for kristin and him to get on judge judy he has been asking about this he just wanted to be on tv so he was like he was like i'm gonna sue krist Kristen for putting a door ding in his car. He knows that Judge Judy hates it when parents sue their kids. So basically, he wants to be yelled at by Judge Judy. Yeah. Wow. He was trying to get Kristen out.

Kristen's not interested. Not nice. Not okay, DP. This is from Brittany Surname. Favorite vacation destination? Oh, Colorado. Oh, love colorado so much yeah this is making me wish i'd gone on more vacations but i mean i like colorado for me nothing beats the mountains yeah yeah um favorite like my place that i'm like yearning to go really bad right now is maine i want to go to maine so bad i don't even know why

but i've never been there and i just want to like be on the coast i want to have some lobster some amazing seafood see trees and shit oh i want to go to maine yeah i want to go to some small main town yes see him pull up the lobster in the cage and be like, just got these today. And I sit down. And he's going to have his yellow jacket on. Yeah. Why don't we go? Let's go. Okay. I'm serious about these things.

I want to go so bad. LGTC Maine meetup. Yeah. Only for residents of Maine. Tiffinized wants to know, what are you going to be for Halloween? Or if you're not dressing in a costume this year what is the favorite costume you ever wore for halloween i haven't dressed up for halloween in years so norman and i usually dress up but it's always the same thing and it's just to hand out candy

norm has a huge gingerbread man costume and so like he'll sit out front in the gingerbread man costume and i will just like put on an apron and have a rolling pin and hand out candy. That's cute. We're adorable. Yeah. We're basically the hottest people you've ever seen. Ever seen! Because Norman's a sexy gingerbread man.

That means he doesn't wear the pants on it. Oh! So what happens with that is the parents love the gingerbread costume. The children are terrified. I bet. Yeah, some of them are. Yeah, they are legit scared. Mom, why doesn't he have pants on? with that is the parents love the gingerbread costume the children are terrified i bet yeah some of them are yeah and they are legit scared mom why doesn't he have pants on and the i remember one a little girl was like crying like no no and the dad was like laughing oh my gosh costume i was like i didn't mean to you know what though here's your problem you don't speak and i think that

makes it creepier when you're just like slowly waving in that gingerbread man costume. You got to be like, it's Halloween. I'm trying to scare him. No. Favorite costume I've ever. Oh, I dressed up as Mary Poppins a few years ago and I love Mary Poppins. So my favorite was in 2007.

I went as Lindsay Lohan and And I had like, I taped two of those. You know how in the grocery store you can sometimes get like a big fun variety pack of cereals? Yeah. So I got two of those, covered them in black construction paper and duct taped them around my ankle. That was when she'd gotten arrested. Wow. It was a good time. If you could, this is from Tyler Dodd.

If you could go back and redo an old episode of the podcast, which one would it be? Probably the first one, right? Yeah, the first one. So that is my favorite case and I want to redo it because I would do it completely different. What would you change? I would talk way more about, I'd go into more of the cult stuff and then the murders. And I do think the trial stuff is super, super interesting and like crazy stuff happened. But I would just totally reorganize that and I would do it much better than I do.

And you'd have better microphones. That's right. Oh my gosh. Maybe I don't need to be mortified, but I am anyway. Like we're getting new listeners and that's right gosh i maybe i don't need to be mortified but i am anyway like we're getting new listeners and that's awesome but people are saying like i'm starting from the beginning and i'm like please god no don't start from the beginning we didn't even figure out the microphone situation until like episode nine or something here's the thing here's the thing a lot of people discover your stuff that's new and you have the new microphones now and yeah they are like i want

to go back and watch from the beginning but they know like you got to start somewhere they're not going to listen to your first episode be like oh this is a terrible podcast i'm not going to listen to it now they know it's your first episode it's okay yeah it happens on youtube all the time i just did not do charlie justice poor charlie poor charlie you know i have a refrigerator magnet Charlie Justice. Poor Charlie. Poor Charlie. You know I have a refrigerator magnet. Poor Charlie. And it holds up Jack's t-ball picture. Wow.

See, it's funny to me that you feel guilty, I just feel like cringey. Yeah. Yeah. No, I feel cringey too. We've got a lot of questions here oh okay we got a ton good uh this one is highly requested it's gotten a lot of reaction notes uh malfulu what video games do norman and kristin play together oh god oh um we play two video games i can name them they are there are two of them super mario world

and disney's aladdin on the super nintendo we have also played mario kart in mario do you remember in super mario kart should we tell the story of like one of our first dates sure it was even like before we went on a first date it was just like we were hanging out yeah and you came over and you brought with you okay so another thing norman didn't tell me about gaming historian and his youtube show until we had been dating for like a year and so he just came over with this little console that i'd never seen in my life because i'd always had the super nintendo and you came over with the NES top loader. The Super Nintendo Mini. Oh my god, push up your glasses.

You're naming a completely different console. Okay, so he came over with that thing. Because we must have talked about... You talked about how you liked Mario Kart. Yeah. And so I said, oh, I'll come over and bring Mario Kart. Right. And I think you thought I was joking. I did think so I said, oh, I'll come over and bring Mario Kart. Right. And I think you thought

I was joking. I did think you were joking, but then you did it. You brought over this newfangled console I'd never seen in my life and I asked, like, what is that?

And I shit you not, the guy talked for like 15 minutes. I did not know that he had literally just done an episode on the thing. But it was a fun time. And then he beat me

like 18 times in a row oh koopa beach i didn't know i was playing against the gaming historian no kidding i thought it was just some dude he did not let me get no idea i was a gamer but yeah uh we we play mario games we've played a few mario games together but you always love super mario world and disney's aladdin i love disney's aladdin i love it and when we go to your parents sometimes we bust out super mario kart because when you and your sister play it's hilarious it is because they're both not very good at the game terrible too so you know what's funny huh is that i played sports

all growing up did great like I was a decent sports player. I work with my hands. Yeah. I have no hand-eye coordination when it comes to playing video games. I am fucking terrible. If I play Goldeneye, because my family, we have two video games that we still to this day. We have our Nintendo 64 still, and we will play Mario Kart, and we will play Goldeneye. If I play Goldeneye, I'm in the fucking corner, and my is on the ground and I cannot figure out how to get out of it.

In your defense, the controls for Goldeneye on 1064 have not aged well at all. They are not great. And in my defense, I've always been terrible at sports and terrible at video games. There you go. Jessica has a really good one.

Do you consider a hot dog a sandwich? No! Get out of here, Jessica has a really good one. Do you consider a hot dog a sandwich? No! No. Get out of here, Jessica. What? Jessica, what? No! Sorry, Jessica.

Does she think it is? She's just asking. No, it's its own thing. It's its own category. Do you want a serious question? Sure. After hearing Brandyristin's opinions on a death penalty it brought out a lot of issues with the correction punishment process if they could design their own correction punishment process i.e prison jail appeal process capital punishment sentence

length certain crimes what would it look like so i think quick answer for me is that I think that the justice system should be more focused on rehabilitation. It is not focused on rehabilitation at all as it currently stands. I'd say that. And lots of countries have a justice system that is focused on rehabilitation. It works really well. So I'd say that would be one of the major changes that I would make to our justice system. I think I would deprivatize the prison system. Yeah. Yeah.

And I don't know what kind of system I'd come up with. Yeah. But as it is right now, we lock up way too many people. Absolutely. And we have unfair sentencing. Yeah. As we've just talked about on this episode. Why?

What do you mean? She thought she was going into her own apartment. Let's see. I got one more for you. This is from Islezer. Which one of you would last longer during the zombie apocalypse? And what would your survival tactics be? That's a tough one

because I could go longer without food. That's true. And I can't run away from zombies. Kristen would starve to death. It's a real toss-up. Kristen would starve to death in four hours. I'm finding water. Oh, gosh.

I'm looking for water. Yeah. Like a little island or something. Because I know, like, that's a big problem for zombies. Zombies, yeah. They can't traverse the water. I tell you what, I startle so easily. Yeah.

And I scream. Oh, yeah. So, you know. Maybe you go up to Minnesota. There's a lot of, like, little islands up there. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I've thought about this.

Actually, I think my first step would be to go to my parents house oh that's true because they're they're kind of you know isolated they've got water you know and my mom with the amount of food they have in the house you think they're always ready for a zombie apocalypse you know season two of the walking dead they they hung out at that plantation for a while, but then that herd of zombies came through. What if that happens? I mean, my assumption in any of those situations is I'm going to die eventually, so.

Yeah. Excellent. That's a good question. That was a good question. We didn't answer it, because it's just too hard. I don't know. It's too hard. We just have to wait for the apocalypse to come.

Maybe. Yeah. We team up and we survive way better because your strengths i don't know how do you take away my hunger from me because i would require less food you could have my shares i wouldn't do that i would require i would force you to we would be looking at each other like you would cherry pits me today yeah well that's it oh loved it very good hey if you want to get in on uh that those questions next time all you have to do is join our patreon to get in the discord patreon.com slash lgcc podcast that's lgtc podcast i slurred all those letters

together i just spat everywhere i'm sorry um and And while you're at it, subscribe to the podcast. Find us on social media. We have to do Supreme Court inductions. Oh, fuck. Oh, boy. Oh, goodness. Shit. Let me pull up my thing.

Oh, she's unprepared. I am. Ready for the zombie apocalypse, but not prepared for the thing we do at the end of every episode. Nope. What now? What are we doing? Okay, guys. This is our final time doing your least favorite word.

We are coming up with a new question for the next round. What will it be? I have no idea right now. We gotta think about it. For this week's induction, I'd like you all to stand, bend over, put your hands

by your butt, and do the Ace Ventura talking butt cheeks thing. Excellent. Jamie Lynn Grant. Tummy. Haley Ward. Ruined. Because she's from the South and pronounces it weird and people make fun of her for it.

She says she pronounces it rrnt. Rrnt. I'd make fun of you too, Haley. You know, I knew a Haley Ward. You did? In North Carolina. From the South. How did she stay in the South? Is she the one that got away? In another life. No.

Amanda Service. Amanda, you picked a word I've never heard of before. I think she's messing with us. Effleurage? Effleurage? Who knows? Spell it. What a terrible word.

E-F-F-L-E-U-R-A-G-E. Effleurage. Ooh. I killed it. Not bad. A form of massage involving a circular stroking movement made with the palm of the hand. Sarah Hemperly. Panties.

Ugh, same. Madison Trott. Crayon. Because everyone in Utah pronounces it crayon and i can't handle it i also cannot handle it i agree when people say crayon crayon or crown both bother me it's crayon yeah carrie and lauren i don't really dislike any words but when people say supposedly i want to cry a bit supposedly yes also when people want to say specifically, but they say pacifically. Pacifically, yes.

Aaron Boudreau. Bulge. Ooh, notice this is bulge. Ooh, what's this? Mark LeBeau. Anti-disestablishmentarianism. You thought you'd trip us up, didn't you, Mark? Nice try, Mark.

Welcome to the Supreme Court. And now, Brandi, you can wrap things up. Oh, yeah. So back to what I was saying previously. Guys, thank you for your support. If you want to support us further, please subscribe to the podcast. Find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, facebook twitter instagram reddit youtube all of

those places and uh you know i forgot what i say next leave us a review head on over to itunes leave us a rating leave us a review and then once you've done all that be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics podcast adjourned! from Wikipedia and newspapers.com. And I got my info from an article by William DeLong for all things interesting, an article by Emily Thompson for morbidology, an episode of Dr. Phil, as well as a couple of articles in the Tennessean. For a full list of our sources,

visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.