Let's Go To Court! - 94: Skechers Shape-Ups & a Ton of Leaves

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

Ten years ago, Skechers Shape-Ups took the world by storm. The shoes were a miracle. They melted our fat, sculpted our hips buns and thighs. And the best part? We didn’t have to do any extra work. All we had to do was put on a pair of Skechers Shape-Ups, and BOOM! Instant workout! Except… well, the shoes didn’t quite live up to the hype. Then Brandi tells us an alarming tale (doesn’t she always?). When Tina Herrmann didn’t show up for work one day, her boss immediately sensed that something was up. She went to Herrmann’s home, broke in, and discovered a grisly scene. There was blood everywhere. Tina, her two children, and her friend Stephanie Sprang were missing. Investigators rushed to the scene. The clues led back to a man named Matthew Hoffman, whose home was filled with leaves. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Skechers will pay $40 million over claims that its sneakers toned muscles,” by Ashley Lutz for Business Insider “Skechers Shape-Ups lawsuit: Woman sues saying ‘toning shoes’ caused hip fractures” by Elisabeth Leamy for ABC News “Skechers to pay $40 million for exaggerated shoe claims,” by Brett Barrouquere for the Christian Science Monitor In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Killer Stuffed His House With Leaves, Kept Kidnapped Girl on Bed of Leaves” by Jessica Hopper, ABC News “What was in the home (and mind) of Matthew Hoffman?” by Allison Manning and Holly Zachariah, The Columbus Dispatch “Excerpts from Matthew Hoffman’s confession” The Columbus Dispatch “Missing Ohio Trio Were Stabbed to Death; Bodies Found Stuffed in Hollowed Out Tree” by Dean Schabner, ABC News “Ohio town grieves; hollow tree that held 3 bodies removed” Associated Press “Matthew Hoffman, Ohio Killer Who Hid Bodies in Tree, Pleads Guilty” by Edecio Martinez, CBS News

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A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group. One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about Skechers shape-ups.

And I'll be talking about a man obsessed with leaves okay right off the top we have to address something okay on last week's episode yes we meaning i use the term gypsy and we have since learned that that is a pejorative for the roma people i had no idea. My sincerest, sincerest apologies. I pulled that terminology directly from source material and legitimately had no clue. Yeah, neither did I. So thank you to people who messaged us and educated us. I apologize to anybody that was offended by that. So, so sorry. We've got another thing to discuss. What's that? we're doing kind of a classic lgtc right now meaning that norman is not in the room with us he apparently has to write a script for gaming historian he's got to do like his real job real job his real job the job that actually pays him

has called some people are all about the money they're like i'll only work if i get paid a real moral failing yeah but anyway i've got a fun story i couldn't do another sad story after last week thank goodness yeah no kidding wait kristen this is where we plug the patreon what are you doing trying to move into your story already i'm'm sorry. Okay. Hey. Hey, curious people. Hot stuff happening over on our Patreon right now. As always. Yeah.

If you're looking for case updates. If you're looking for nudes, I don't know. Look for internet porn. There's plenty of it out there. But if you are looking for case updates, we have got them by the truckload. We've got updates on Dr robert newlander we've got at case updates on uh balloon boy we've got case updates on lamonte mcintyre very exciting stuff and that's just at the two dollar level if you want to up the ante a bit and listen to bonus episodes and join the discord that's five dollars if you want to go even higher touch the sky

what what's your favorite phrase i was i'm trying not to say it balls to the wall if you want to go balls to the wall join the supreme court it's seven dollars a month you get a sticker you get the bonus episodes you get everything at the lower levels we've got uh this is gonna be a teaser oh we've got new rewards coming to you supreme court members so don't you tease me such a tease so join the lgtc patreon today excellent all right all right take us into your light-hearted sketchers shape-ups sorry i know this i know this story how do you know this story because my mom was pissed when it happened that's how i know all things okay okay brandy 10 years ago a game-changing product hit the market it sculpted our thighs and

our asses and our abs and it melted our body fat away. Did it? It did, Brandi! And the best part was we hardly had to do any work at all. And did it while you were walking? That's right. I'm talking, of course, about Skechers shape-ups. Skechers shape-ups were a miracle shoe. Sorry. I just. Yeah. You just really. I mean. Let me get this bottle closed right in the microphone here. You ever screwed a cap on a bottle before? Well, I realize, like, why am I screwing it up? I don't know.

I'm going to have to unscrew it every. I apologize. Hmm. Let's start from the top. One semester of law school. Sketcher's shape-ups were a miracle shoe. You just put them on and boom!

Instant workout. No. Yes! Yes. Buns of steel immediately. You walked around in those bad boys and you looked like a fucking fool. We will get to it. I'm sure there are going to be people who either don't remember these or weren't around for it.

Yeah. These things were hideous. Yeah. You walked around in them, and as you went about your business, the shoes toned your body. Over time, you got the perfect ass. Soon enough, a thigh gap. Thigh gaps for everyone. The ads were impossible to resist

and 100% true. They said things like, get in shape without setting foot in the gym and shape up while you walk. Sketchers claimed that the shape-ups would help you lose weight, improve your posture, strengthen and tone your buttocks,

and repel men. Strengthen and tone your legs and strengthen and tone your abdominal muscles. That's a lot of claims from a shoe. Yeah. Pretty great, huh? Huh. And the best part?

You looked super cool in them. No. Please allow me to describe these beauties. You start with your standard sketcher tennis shoe, which is already a thing of beauty. Isn't that great to begin with? You might be thinking, how do you improve on this gorgeous design? It can be done. I've seen it done.

The fine folks at Skechers took their regular sketcher tennis shoe and then they added the most ridiculous bottom to the shoe like so picture a platform yeah with a rocking chair yes yes so it's super thick in the middle and then it gets thin at your heel and thin at your toe. They're rocking chair shoes. I kept thinking, how do you describe it? It's the perfect way. I mean, it is like walking on a rocking chair. Okay, so that part of the shape up was called. Hold on.

I got to pull up a picture of some shape ups. Just refresh my. You can buy some on ebay if you're so inclined looking for christmas presents a little early oh they're so hideous they really are ugly so that part of the shape up was called the rocker or the rolling bottom and the scientists at sketchers said that this was where the magic happened you see sketchers shape ups because of the rolling bottom, caused the person wearing them

to be a little unstable. So that person had to work just a little bit harder as they walked. And Brandy, all that extra work added up in the form of calories burned and muscles toned.

Did it? How dare you? In case you're wondering, yes, there was a specific way to walk in these shoes to maximize their effectiveness. Okay, so apparently they had a video. I wasn't able to watch the video, but I saw some text from it.

So here's what they told you to do. This is from Skechers directly. You're supposed to step forward with the middle section of your heel hitting the ground first. Okay. Then roll forward onto the ball of your foot and push off with your toes. That's how you maximize these magical shoes. In time, you get a six-pack. People are like, whoa, how did it happen?

Shape-ups. That's right. In a 2011 halftime commercial, Kim Kardashian fired her personal trainer. You know why? She had her shape-ups. That's right. She had the shape-ups. She didn't need a personal trainer. You know why? She had her shape-ups. That's right. She had the shape-ups. She didn't need a personal trainer anymore.

Brooke Burke was also a spokesperson. That's who I remember. Do you? She said that shape-ups were the new thing in fitness. I'm actually surprised Kim Kardashian did them. Really? Yeah. Why?

Seems off-brand for her. Like, low-brand. This was 2011, Kim. Yeah, I get it. And it was a Super Bowl commercial. All right. And, I mean, these were, like, very, these were huge. Yeah, I remember.

Do you? Do you? But shape-ups, they weren't just for the ladies. Joe Montana was also a spokesperson. Can you imagine Joe Montana in these things? You know they're knockoffs, right? What do you mean? There was a famous brand that came out with these.

And then Skechers made them for the masses. Really? Because the brand that made them was super expensive. They were called MBTs. Wow. They said like telemarshals. I had no idea. Infomercials?

Yeah. I think I made that term up. Telemarshals. I mean, it sounds like it's right though. Telemarshals? Infomercials. Wow. Yeah.

Well, you know, shape ups. Okay, I looked this up. They were $100 dollars a pair holy hell yeah i don't remember them being i don't know there were different shoes in the shape ups like family and so some went as low as 60 but those were the ugliest i don't know pick your poison i mean they were all hide. A ton of people bought these shoes. And they used them, and they got into excellent shape. And that's the story of why Americans don't need universal health care.

No. This will sadden and shock you, Brandy. But the fine folks at Skechers got into a little trouble over these shoes. A woman in Ohio named Holly Ward bought herself a pair. She was a waitress, so she wore the shoes at work and on walks.

And after about five months of that, she developed stress fractures in her hips. Yeah, I bet. She said the Skechers shape-ups were to blame. She said, okay, I don't know how to pronounce this bone. Femoral? Femoral. Femoral, thank you.

The femoral bone is the strongest bone in the human body. You didn't say it at all how I told you. How'd you say it again? Femoral. Oh, femoral. Okay, okay. Take two. The femoral bone is the strongest bone in the human body,

and I fractured not one but two of them without being in a car crash or any traumatic accident. Yeah, that's pretty fucked up. That's crazy. Yes. She said that as a result of the shoes, she had to undergo physical therapy and get pins in her hips. Oh my gosh.

What? Holly was shocked about these injuries. She couldn't believe what these shoes had done. So in the winter of 2011, she looked herself in the mirror and she said, Let's go to court! Ronald Johnson was Holly's attorney, and he told the media that shape ups were dangerous, plain and simple. He said that Skechers had been irresponsible by just throwing these hideous shoes out into the market. He said, we do not know of any testing or safety studies that Skechers did to determine safety.

If they're going to invent a whole new way for a human being to walk, the very first thing they should do is studies to make sure that's not going to harm their customers. That is a very good point. Excellent point. Gotta say. Gotta hand it to them. Very good point. But Skechers wasn't worried. They were like, hey, millions of people around the world are wearing our delightful shoes.

And they don't seem to be having this problem. This seems like an isolated incident. And then a class action lawsuit came calling. That's exactly right. Skechers should not have been so cocky. Because then came the class action lawsuit. Turns out Holly wasn't some lone freak who'd been injured by these shoes. There were quite a few people who got injured, but that wasn't the only thing.

In addition to the people who got injured, there were a lot more people who noticed that the shoes just didn't fucking work. Yeah, a bunch of false claims. Yes, turns out they were ugly weird looking shoes they didn't do jack shit for your abs buns and thighs is that the jane fonda i changed it around so i could do it in that order as buns and thighs or maybe hers was hips but no it was abs and thighs yeah so should we pause here to get your mom's opinion what what pissed your mom off i can't remember i just remember my mom thinking from the beginning that they wouldn't do shit yeah and then yeah being

like when the lawsuit came out being like i don't know what people expected did you ever have a pair no i never had a pair but i had okay i had an employee at one of my stores who had a pair. Because this is when I was a district manager. And we had a whole meeting about whether she would be allowed to wear them or not. Because they weren't technically dress code. And they were technically hideous. They were hideous. What was the decision?

If they were all black? i think that's what we went with yeah were you like listen i want you to fucking moon boots i know they did i just want to know what problem you had with her going to the gym at work i can't imagine standing and cutting hair in those fucking things all day no no it would be horrible I feel like you'd do some crooked cuts just rocking back and forth the whole time so I it didn't occur to me until today when I was like looking over this script I think I had the Reebok ones so there were different brands and like they were like those were like the less offensive ones yeah so I remember thinking I was kind of like your mom where it's like there's no way this does Reebok ones. So there were different brands. Those were like the less offensive ones. Yeah. So

I remember thinking, I was kind of like your mom, where it's like, there's no way this does what it's going to do. But I mean, I might as well give it a shot. That's exactly how it was. I was like, look, I'm going to be walking my dog anyway. These Reebok ones are not nearly as ugly. If I happen to become buff, then great. If not,

oh well. If I happen to get the ass of my dreams. Who's going to see me out here? So, here's the deal. This class action lawsuit was no joke. They had the power of the Federal Trade Commission on their side. Oh, shit. This? So, the website said it was a multi-state investigation.

Which sounds to me like, you know, four or five, 44 states. Oh, my God. It was spearheaded by the attorney generals in Ohio and Tennessee. Wow. You guys won't believe this, but the investigation found that Skechers' claims had been outrageously misleading. Oh, wow. I think your mom was actually on this committee. Turns out the shoes did not make people lose right they didn't tone muscles at least not any better than any other shoe you know it's like yeah i mean go for a walk that's gonna do something but

nothing magical is gonna happen in these hideous shoes and the commercials with kim kardashian and brooke burke again misleading these shoes were not a workout they were not a gym the gym is the gym these shoes are an abomination then the investigators looked into some of the other shoes in the shape up line so this was what i was talking about earlier, how like some were... I'm mesmerized by your highlights. Thank you. I went to someone else. I went to Great Clips. You shut up right now.

No, you did a really good job. You look beautiful. Guys, Brandi did my hair yesterday. I don't often get to just stare at my work the next day. Does it encourage you to do an extra good job on it? It does. Yeah. Yeah, and well, you're also my best friend. I don't want you to be pissed at me if I do a shitty job.

I would not be pissed at you. Yes, I would. So Skechers put out these shoes called Resistance Runners. What are those? The same thing? This sounds like an injury waiting to happen. So you've got these moon shoes and then you're going to go run in them. That sounds terrible.

Okay. okay in their ads they claimed that these resistance runners would increase muscle activation by up to 85 percent how are they that is just ridiculously irresponsible there are three claims in here that just it's like first of all how do you measure that that's insane so muscle activation by up to 85% for posture related muscles. Okay, there's one. 71% for your butt muscles. Great. And 68% for calf muscles.

And since those are so specific, you can't debate them at all. That's exactly right. 87% of statistics are made up on the spot. And they activate your butt muscles so are these the ones that we're supposed to make it feel like you're running in the sand i don't know hang on let's let's google uh sketchers resistance runner okay i'm doing the image search oh god those are ugly oh this item is no longer in stock

or available are you kidding me well it can't because everybody bought them get ready to experience an all-new dawn valley north lexus Don Valley North Lexus has temporarily relocated around the corner to 7200 Victoria Park Avenue while they build a brand new dealership for you. The deals don't stop, though. Get loyalty rates as low as 1.9%, delivery credits up to $1,500, and save up to $7,000 on select demonstrator models. Don Valley North, Don Valley North Collection. A proud member of Wayne's Auto Group.

So how do we describe these? They kind of look like a double rocker, right? The one I'm looking at is. It's not. Oh, gosh. It's breathtaking. I don't even know what to say. I just can't even.

Oh, I don't even know the words to describe it. I don't even have the words to describe these two without being disrespectful. God, these are just ugly. They're just hideous. Kristen know did you have these ones let me see let me see these nice purpley ones you know what i think it's a good would be a good game have a few drinks sit down with your friends and then just like put on a google image search of sketchers shape ups these things are hilarious are you seeing the ones with the gold bottoms yes well they got like a wavy pattern on them like just make you look like you're running faster it's just all tricks oh my god no treats halloween joke okay okay back to the script here wait i've got to learn more i'm trying to tell

you more no i want to know if these make it feel like you're running in the sand there's no way no because i feel like this lace-up shoe is not only cute, but comfortable. Who wrote that? That is on the shoes.com description of the ugly gold ones. Okay, shoes.com. You've got to

calm down. Wow. Alright, continue on. You guys, I don't know what's happening. Brandi just pulled out her credit card. Now she's like, I have to have these now. They're comfortable and I can run in them. So the FTC was like, okay, Skechers, no, we have to see some proof of these claims you're making. And Skechers was like, oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. That comes from a study.

And let me just, let me find that study. I'm having trouble getting my hands on it right at this particular moment. It fell between the couch cushions. That's what happened. So apparently there had really been a study. But the FTC looked into it and they were like, okay, they cherry picked their results. They made this whole thing misleading. No.

Are you ready for the worst thing? This is my opinion. This is the worst thing they did. You know how some people claim that shape ups would cause injuries or did cause injuries or, you know, blah, blah. They were wrong. Okay. Yeah, they were wrong.

shape ups were endorsed by a chiropractor and, uh, he was in their ads. He'd studied them and shape ups were great. So was he not a real chiropractor? He was an actor named. Why are you asking these questions? I mean, this should have put your mind at ease. Named Brad Bradford. He was blonde, very hunky. He was a real chiropractor. Okay. His name was Dr. Stephen Gautreaux. And in advertisements, he recommended shape-ups.

Hmm. Because he'd done an independent clinical study. No, he hadn't. Yes, Brandy. How many people? I don't like your tone. And, you know, his study showed that shape-ups were super effective compared to regular tennis shoes. And they were just awesome and not bad for your body in any way.

And isn't that great? Mm-hmm. Turns out the study didn't produce any of the awesome effects that Dr. Stephen or Skechers claimed. Right. effects that dr stephen or sketchers claimed right and also um dr stephen oopsies forgot to disclose that he was actually married to a sketchers marketing executive whoops should we mention that is that important oh also one more thing one more minor thing that you're only going to get mad if you're super picky. He's a dentist. He forgot to mention that Skechers actually paid for him to do that study. Of course they did.

Yeah, oops. Of course they did. The FTC was not real understanding about all this. Shocking. They accused Skechers of making deceptive ads and falsely representing clinical studies. Yeah. Which is pretty damn serious. Yeah.

And it sounds exactly like what they did. Sounds like they got it. You got your guy. Yeah. Skechers was scared. A year earlier, the FTC had gone after Reebok for the line that I was wearing, their line of shape-up style shoes. So Reebok had their own.

I think a couple other shoe companies had their own. I can't believe you owned these. I've got to see what they looked like. They weren't as bad, I've got to say. Okay, let me look them up. Reebok. Oh, God. They're not great.

Hang on, I'm not seeing the ones that I wore. Okay, okay, hold on. They aren't as bad. You are right. I'm not seeing the ones that I wore. Okay. Okay. Hold on. They aren't as bad. You are right. I see them now. I see them now.

Yeah. So hang on. I'm flipping mine toward you. Like, I didn't have this color, but this was the style that I had. They still have a very thick back. Yeah. They've got a real thick badonk. Okay.

This is what I would describe them as. It was like the bottom of them is an exercise ball. Kind of, yeah. Yeah, that's not... But that's... Mine weren't as exaggerated as that one. Oh, really? I promise.

Oh, you had a special low-profile version. Mine were real discreet. So, the FTC had gone after Reebok and Reebok had settled with them for $25 million. Easy tones. Easy tones. That's right. That's right. And it was easy because look how great I look.

Sketchers saw the writing on the wall. Yeah. And they're like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Yeah, because it's like, okay, so Reebok did a bad thing. We did it like double bad. We did it like way worse. So they settled too, which I know you hate,

but I'm sorry. It's just how things went. I thought you were going to spit. I almost did. Oh my God. That would have been disgusting. I thought you were going to fountain it. I almost did.

I had to pull it back in. Okay, I'm glad. They settled for $40 million. I almost did. I had to pull it back in. Okay, I'm glad. They settled for $40 million. Huh, that's less than I would have guessed. Under the settlement agreement, Skechers agreed to quit making shit up about clinical research, which I can't believe you have to agree to that,

and to quit making any kind of claims about toning, weight loss, and all that bullshit. So they were allowed to continue making these things, but like, hey, you can't just blatantly lie to people about what these shoes are going to do. I think they still sell them. I think they do, too. It's insane to me. Like, who's still wearing these things? I don't know. The director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection said, The director of the FTC's Bureau of Consumer Protection said,

Sketchers' unfounded claims went beyond stronger and more toned muscles. The company even made claims about weight loss and cardiovascular health. The FTC's message for Sketchers and other national advertisers is shape up your substantiation or tone down your claims. Yeah! A year later, the FTC announced that they were sending out more than 500,000 checks to people who bought the Skechers shape-ups. So how much money did people get? I have no idea. I assume you just got a refund for whatever because they they only went after like the false claims they didn't bother with

injuries i assume those were all separate yeah uh and that's the story of a very ugly shoe the ugliest of ugly shoes i i disagree what's uglier cro Crocs. No. Yes, Brandy. Crocs. Compared to this monster? That's the ugliest shoe I've ever seen in my life. No, no. Crocs are uglier. Than this?

Yeah, because like, think about it. If you were far away, you might be like, oh, that's a normal shoe. If you were far away from a croc, it's always ugly. It's ugly up close. It's ugly far away. This is ugly far away. No ugly far away this is ugly far away no if you're if you're far far away

if you're down the road a ways you're not even gonna know I just disagree like I'm like an ugly little boy I know I'm not saying it looks good I'm not saying I want a pair I've been looking for the perfect thing

to get you for your birthday. Think a figure today. Okay, if you had to choose between wearing Crocs and wearing shape-ups. I would wear Crocs. Brandy. Yeah.

Have you ever owned a pair of Crocs? Yeah. What? They were very... You're not a nurse. No, when I was in cosmetology school, everybody wore them.

Oh. It was like the thing. What if like a pair of shears went... Well, I guess you'd lose a toe. And you shouldn't be dropping your shears on your toes. Well, you shouldn't be wearing shoes with holes in them. So all the other kids jumped off the cliff into a pile of Crocs and you jumped too.

They weren't like brightly colored. They were just black. I don't know why I'm making fun of you. I bought the Reebok Easy Tones. That's right. How dare you. Crocs are back with a vengeance. No, they're not.

Yes, the teenage girls are wearing the Crocs with fucking socks. I hate it. I mean, at least you don't get a whiff of anything. Yeah, that's true, I guess, as long as they're clean socks. Well, of course they're clean socks. Who's wearing dirty socks? I don't know. Hopefully no one.

You want to talk about leaves? Leaves, all kinds of leaves? Bowls, bowls, all types of bowls. Yeah. So you know a little bit about this case right okay i know like next to nothing i just know it's bad it is bad bad real bad but it's a brandy case so of course yeah yeah um and it's timely because you know it's fall who doesn't love a good fall murder story am i gonna want some pumpkin spice you're gonna feel like the basicest bitch

wrap up in your plaid scarf with your pumpkin spice latte you know i have like three plaid hold on let me let me get prepared here oh hi brandy, Brandi. Let's record a podcast. Let me write my entire script. Let me give this a quick Google. What is this guy's name again? It was November 10th, 2010. Okay. Valerie Haythorne, who was the manager at a Mount Vernon, Ohio Dairy Queen was very worried because her employee, Tina Herman, had missed her four o'clock shift at the restaurant. Super out of character for Tina.

Tina was like a single mom. Well, she had like a boyfriend, but she had two kids that she was, you know, responsible for. She couldn't afford to be skipping shifts. And was just very unlike her. afford to be skipping and was just very unlike her right and so that evening valerie drove by tina's house and the lights are all on tina's car is in the driveway she drove like a truck of some kind it's in the driveway and so she's like something must have just come up she must have forgotten it was her shift whatever she just kept on driving right didn't think much else about it. The next day, November 11th, Tina misses her shift again. Tina's kids don't make it to school that day.

She's got a 13-year-old daughter and a 11-year-old son. They don't go to school that day. So now everybody's kind of worried. Right. At some point, it's also realized that Tina's really good friend, Stephanie, is also missing. No one's seen her for about a day or so. And so this manager, Valerie, goes back to Tina's house. This time she's like, no, this is super weird. She like rings the doorbell.

The dog isn't barking. And like they have this little miniature pincher who would just like lose its fucking weird she like rings the doorbell the dog isn't barking and like they have this little miniature pincher who would just like lose its fucking mind when people ring the door sure dog isn't barking she knows like when nobody's home exactly where they put the dog they put it like in a back bedroom and so she goes back there and like listens for the dog oh my god no noise and so she breaks into the house she crawls in through a back window she gets inside and there's fucking blood everywhere here here's a question yeah do you think in that situation you would ever like would you call the police first before you go into the house

yeah probably i think it's kind of a tough call i think because at the same time i could see the police being like their dog's not barking. Like, thank you for calling and letting us know. Yeah. So it is a small community. It's actually, so the big town that it's near is like Mount Vernon, Ohio, but they're in a smaller community called Apple Valley. And so really small. It's like one of those like.

Mount Vernon, is that where Brock Turner is from? Oh, I don't know. Hang on. Hang on. Because I'm like, how do I know about Mount Vernon, Ohio? He's from Sugar Creek Township, Ohio. I apologize, Mount Vernon. I didn't mean to besmirch your good name.

Okay. So Tina Herman lives in Apple Valley, which is like one of those like um like designed communities right okay so it's really small kind of everybody knows everybody kind of deal so valerie breaks in blood everywhere she immediately calls the police there's like blood in the entryway there's tons of blood in the bathroom like the walls are like splashed with blood in the bathroom and then there's beer cans littered everywhere and it's just not at all how tina kept her house like it wasn't like not the blood part okay the cans like it wasn't like the cans were already there and then the blood happened like and all four people were gone. Tina wasn't there. Her two kids weren't there. And the friend were not there.

Oh, boy. So this massive manhunt begins searching for Tina, Stephanie, and Tina's two children, Cody and Sarah. Police start processing the scene, kind of trying to figure out what the hell went on in there.

And they pretty quickly determine that at least one there's been at least one murder in this home by the amount of blood that's there and that's what valerie said to the police kind of first thing off she's like i knew someone didn't cut their finger in this house like something horrible happened here so police are processing the scene And they put out like an APB on vehicles for both Tina Herman and her friend Stephanie Sprang, because neither of their vehicles are at the home at this point. And they had both been previously seen at the home. And so while they're processing the scene, they come across this bag that's got items in it that were purchased at Walmart. So there's like a tarp in the bag, they come across this bag that's got items in it that were purchased at Walmart.

So there's like a tarp in the bag and there's a receipt and for some other items, including like rope and duct tape and stuff like that. And so they get to work kind of trying to reverse track that purchase. If you're the clerk at Walmart and someone buys a tarp and duct tape and rope, there should be a button that you just hit on the side of your cash register. Also, if you're hauling something in your truck that needs to be covered, you would purchase those same items. Yeah, that's what they all say. So in the meantime, while they're trying to like back search this Walmart purchase and see who made it, they locate Tina Herman's car. It's been, like, abandoned in a parking lot. And so they're kind of processing that.

And they see, like, a guy in a silver Toyota Yaris just, like. Watching him? Just, like, kind of loitering in the parking lot. And so they actually go over and talk to him. And he said he was waiting for his girlfriend to get off work. And they're like, what's your girlfriend's name? And he's like, well, I don't know her last name. We just started dating.

And they're like, George Glass. Cool, cool. What's her first name? And he's like, Sarah. And they're like, cool. Okay. And they like just kind of make a note of him i think they get his name you know and then you know they let him go continue working this so they're able to back like find this transaction at walmart they check the security cameras. The guy who happened to purchase it left the store and got into a silver Toyota Yaris. Shocking. And so they're like, fuck, didn't somebody just talk to some creeper in a Toyota Yaris? And so by this time, like a couple of days have passed, I believe. Right. Still no sign of any of the four missing people and so they get a search warrant for this guy's

house and his name is Matthew Hoffman they start looking into him he's got a prior conviction in Colorado for arson but really nothing other than that and so they get a search warrant for him and they get a search warrant with special circumstances so this is really interesting i think so this means that they get a search warrant where they are allowed to ambush him they don't have to knock on his door they can like break down the front door and just go in wow i didn't know that there were different levels different There are different levels. That's fascinating. And so in order to obtain this specific type of search warrant, they have to say that there

is probable cause to believe that he is a danger to the police who would be executing the warrant or that he's a danger to himself or that he might have hostages. Okay. And so at this point, they have no idea where any of the four are and so they have every reason to believe that all of those circumstances could be yeah met yeah and so they track down matthew hoffman's home and they like swap team style, like in bust in the front door, throw a flash grenade in. Whoa. Yes.

And then like storm in and through like the smoke from this like flash grenade thing, they see someone on the couch and they go and they like pull him off the couch. And he's like completely dazed. Like he's been asleep and he's like, what's, what's going on and

they're like they take him into custody and then they start looking around his house and there are leaves everywhere yeah yeah what the fucking middle of the living room floor there's a 14 by 14 tarp laid out and it is piled three feet high with leaves what the fuck yeah they walk through the living room like trying not to disturb the leaves they go into oh because they probably thought they thought that there was possible that there were bodies hidden in the leaves of course you would think that yes Yes. And so then they make further entry into the home. They make it to his bathroom. And the bathroom walls were lined with hundreds of grocery bags full of leaves, like, attached to the wall. This is the weirdest thing ever.

Ever. Yeah. And then they see a little doorway with a cabinet pushed in front of it and so they move the cabinet out of the way and they open the door and it leads to a basement like a stairway into a basement it's just all leaves it just leaves yeah it's just a stairway made of leaves. So they go down into the basement and there on a mattress of leaves is the missing 13-year-old girl, Sarah. She was tied up with duct tape and rope. And she had like a diaper on that was made out of like a grocery bag.

Oh, my God. And she was just like on this. It was like a mattress that had been made out of like a grocery bag. Oh, my God. And she was just like on this. It was like a mattress that had been made out of leaves and then covered with blankets. And so they, police go over and they, she's got something in her, like she's like been gagged. Yeah. Likely because she was screaming, I would guess. Yeah. And she had been held there for, I think it's like three or four days by this point.

Oh, my God, that poor girl. Oh, yeah. And so they like start untying her and they ask her who she is. And she says that she's Sarah. And I'm sorry, I didn't realize she was still alive. Yes, she's alive. Holy shit. She is alive.

And I will say, so initially when this story broke, she was not identified because of a couple of reasons. She will come to find out that she was sexually assaulted. Yeah. And typically sexual assault victims are not identified. And she was also a minor. However, she has gone on to do interviews and write a book and stuff. So that's why I'm choosing to call her by name.

Right. Because she's. She has come out. OK. Yes. This is who I am. And this is my story. Yep.

Her choice. Yes. Yes. So she tells them I'm I'm Sarah I I think this guy killed my family's dog and I'm late for school can you guys take me to school oh my god she's so 13 yeah yeah yeah and they're like least of your concerns right now like let's get you safe like let's get you out of here um and it seemed like she had no idea what was going on with the rest of her family. Oh, God, that's awful.

So they start processing Matthew Hoffman's house. And they go at this big pile of leaves with, like, big sticks, like, only in, like, a more scientific manner. And they start processing this giant leaf pile like looking for what might be hidden in it god can you imagine yeah that yeah and they are totally expecting to find the bodies of sarah's family of course there was nothing in it it was just like a giant pile of leaves and so they've they've got matthew ho Hoffman in custody, and he hasn't said a word since they arrested him. Is he just a freaky leaf hoarder?

I mean, in addition to everything else? Yeah. So it turns out that he's an out-of-work tree trimmer. So I think he, yeah, had some kind of obsession with trees and leaves. He's an out-of-work tree trimmer he had been in a relationship as recently as october 24th a lit with a live-in girlfriend and her son when she she claimed that he choked her and she got a protected protection order and moved out with her son but my question there is like were the leaves already that's it yeah this house

underwent a huge transformation in like two weeks if that is the case no there had to have been i mean it had to have been bad bad bad i feel like by the time you're like you know what i have to get out i need really you don't think a giant fucking pile of leaves in the living room is a big enough red flag i think abuse like builds up over time and weird stuff and your boyfriend is starting to insulate your bathroom with grocery bags full of leaves and you're just like well he is kind of a kook i mean i don't know i i wonder if it i think of it more like maybe there was a snap at that moment and he started hoarding leaves. I don't know.

I don't know either. So they've got Matthew Hoffman in custody. He's like 30 years old. As I mentioned, he had this previous arson charge and conviction. He'd served like six years in prison in Colorado. But he's saying nothing. Arson charge. Arson charge and conviction. He'd served like six years in prison in Colorado. Okay. But he's saying nothing. He's literally saying no words at all to investigators.

He's sitting in the interrogation room in complete silence. At one point, he like, an investigator's trying to get him to do something. And he like does this motion where he like puts a fist over his heart. And then he like does this motion where he like puts a fist over his heart and then he goes like this and the investigator's like you're you're heartbroken yeah so explain to the listeners what you just did like a breaking motion with his hands yeah like picture like early justin bieber yeah and then like yeah yeah um and so And so the detective is like, you're heartbroken? You're heartbroken over what happened? And, like, Matthew, like, shakes his head.

And he's like, the detective's like, I don't understand. Someone broke your heart? Is that what you're saying? And he shakes his head again. And still, like, he sits there in silence until the tape for the interrogation runs out hours go by that scares me more than anything i know oh so they bring in a new um interrogator this is like one from like the FBI, very skilled. And she tries to take like a different tactic with him, kind of like humanize herself to him. And he she gets him to talk a little bit.

He asks if she went to Quantico and she's like, yeah, you know, that's where I did my training. Quantico is the FBI training center in Virginia. You guys, I just tried to whisper a question. I mean, I'm super smart now and I know exactly what she's talking about. So he asked her if she went to Quantico and she's like, yeah, I went to Quantico. He's like, oh, I bet your parents are really proud of you. And she's like, yeah, pretty proud of me. proud of you and she's like yeah pretty proud of me and then um he had made like a comment at some point about feeling alone or being alone and she's like she tries to play on that a little bit and

she's like you know when i was uh when i was going through my training you know for a while they sent me to chicago and i was the only one in my group that was sent there and i really felt alone then so i can definitely you know relate to kind of you know what you're going through and all of that uh-huh he does he doesn't really oh and hey I've got a trash bag full of leaves in my house I'm super into leaves too nothing wrong with that yeah and it's just not it's just not going anywhere. Right. They've got him on suicide watch, and they just want him to tell them where the rest of the people are. There's still three missing people. But he's not giving up anything. He's giving them nothing.

And then another interrogator is brought in, and this one is another male. And at some point, Matthew asks if he can have a bathroom break. And if a bathroom break would be recorded. Oh, God. What's he got in his pockets? The detective's like, no, no, no. I'll go in there with you and everything. And so he's like, but you won't have any recording devices.

And he's like, no. And he's like, and it'll be just you. And he's like, yeah, it'll be just me. And he's like, but you won't have any recording devices. And he's like, no. And he's like, and it'll be just you. And he's like, yeah, it'd be just me. And he's like, well,

will you have your gun on you? And he's like, why are you going to try and overpower me and take my gun? And he's like, no. And he's like, you can give it to someone else if you want. And so he's like,

okay. And so he, this detective's like, all right, I'll play your game. Like he's like, he gives his gun over. He gives his phone over.

He shows Matthew his recording device and gives that over to somebody else. And then just the two of them go into a single stall bathroom. It was just a toilet and a sink. Just the two of them in there. Fuck this. So Matthew can have this bathroom break. And according to this detective, like he came out and wrote a statement afterwards, while they were in there, Matthew said that he had a plan for how he would like this to go down.

He said, I'll tell you everything. I will do it through a written statement drawn up by a lawyer. drawn up by a lawyer i will tell you exactly where the three missing people are but i want that to be sealed by the lawyer and not given to you until the time of my death what and he's like the detective's like okay he's like i then once i have this all written and secured with a lawyer i want you to take me out of jail on another like drive around because I guess they'd take him on a drive around to like tell us where you you know right whatever and he's like and I at that point I want you to let me escape and then as I make my escape I want you to shoot and kill me okay that's just not the way these things I I don't want to go to prison I know that if I'm in prison you guys will give me drugs for schizophrenia i don't want them i don't want

to be shot up with all of those drugs for the rest of my life this is how i want to end it and the detective's like okay unfortunately like it doesn't really that's not how these things work that way and so apparently the this whole time he's been claiming matthew's been claiming that he doesn't know what happened he doesn't know how sarah wound up in his basement he like just kind of like came to one day and oops and she and there was a girl in his basement. Yeah. And so he was like, oh, I must have done something really bad. And so this day when he's telling the detective this plan that he's come up with, he said that he had a dream the night before where he was in a food processing factory

and he opened a garbage bag and it was full of body parts. And everything came back to him in that moment. He suddenly remembered everything that had happened oh my god what so of course detectives don't agree to his terms no no no and they continue working with him to try and get him to you know tell that tell them what happened tell them what went on where where the missing three are. And he gets an attorney at some point. And finally, they end up working a deal where basically they will take the death penalty off the table if he gives them a full confession. Right.

And tells them where the bodies are. And so he does. He agrees to this. And the family asked for this as well they did not want the death penalty from the beginning so when they when the prosecution kind of approached the family with like this is the deal that we're kind of trying to to offer him to see if we can you know get closure for everybody and put an end to this and figure out you know where everybody is they were like absolutely you have our full yeah yeah our full

support behind that so a snippet of Matthew's confession has been released to the press and so I'm going to read it okay for you this was given on November 19th 2010 I parked my car and so he parked his car like um on Howard so that's like a street i guess near where the house is and walked from there to the house i got to the woods across the street from the house a little after midnight i slept across the street from the house that night in a sleeping bag i woke up at daylight there were two vehicles parked at the house during the night and i saw that the gray car had left i I went back to sleep until around nine on Wednesday morning. I stayed there until a woman left in a pickup truck.

This meant there were no vehicles at the house. I walked across the street and tried to enter the front door, but it was locked. I then went in through the garage door. The garage door was not closed all the way, so I slid under it into the garage. I kicked the door into the house from the garage. By this time, it was approximately 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday morning. I looked around the house to make sure no one was there. Even if I did not take anything, there was a certain amount of excitement in being in someone else's home without them being there. I was looking for anything of value that could be carried out easily, like money, jewelry. I didn't find anything of

real value. I was getting ready to leave as I had been there approximately an hour, but someone pulled into the driveway. I was in the back bedroom when she entered the house and was unable to exit without breaking a window and trying to jump out. I had brought my knife for a certain amount of intimidation in case I ran into someone and needed to make an escape. When the person made their way back into the bedroom, I confronted her and made her get onto the bed lying face down. I believe that we were in her bedroom. So this is Tina Herman that has come home to this man being in her house.

Right. I had a blackjack. I don't know what that is. Some kind of tool. Yeah, I have no idea. I was going to try and knock her out with it. I hit her a couple times in the head, but this would not knock her out. It wasn't doing the job, and I started panicking.

The next thing I knew knew her friend came into the bedroom so this is stephanie sprang now i have no idea when she got there and stephanie together like were they partners no no they're just friends okay no so tina actually had a live-in boyfriend yeah i thought you'd said that but they had actually broken up and were like in the process of moving out from each other but um stephanie was tina's best friend gotcha and so like they just happened to like and i think that they were like very much in the process of the boyfriend moving out so the boyfriend was not the father of tina's children either and so she had you know an ex to deal with she had this boyfriend that she's trying to maintain like some kind of civility with while they were having to live together until he could find a different living

arrangement whatever gotcha gotcha so so matthew's in the home he just wanted to break in and steal some stuff that was his intent the whole time great yeah what a great guy he's interrupted when tina comes home and then now Stephanie's home as well. I have no idea when she got there, what she was doing there, or how she gained access. The other woman yelled at me, and there were now two to deal with, and I didn't know what to do. I grabbed my knife that I had put down on the nightstand and stabbed the woman on the bed through her back twice. I chased the other woman down, Stephanie, and stabbed her a couple times in the chest. Instead of running out of the house, she had run into another bedroom. I believe this bedroom was for a girl due to the contents of the room.

I then went back to the other bedroom where the first woman was located and stabbed her a couple more times. I could tell that both women were now dead. And by this time, I was in a total state of shock. I wandered around the house slowly coming to the realization of what I had done and how bad it was. During this time, I killed the dog because it wouldn't stop barking. After a while, I came to the conclusion that I was going to have to dispose of the bodies and burn the house down. At first, I thought about loading the bodies into a vehicle and driving it into Foundation Park Pond, which is like a man-made body of water that's fairly big but nearby. Gotcha. I would swim away as the vehicle

sank, but I felt that it was too cold and I might not be able to make it out of the water. I decided to process the bodies and dispose of them. Process the bodies? Inside a tree that I knew was hollow. Dismember the bodies. Oh. He decided to dismember the bodies. And he used the term process. Oh, God.

This guy's so sick. Yeah. I used garbage bags from within the house and placed the bodies inside. Once I had finished processing the bodies, I moved the Jeep into the garage. So the Jeep is Stephanie Sprang's vehicle. I moved the Jeep into the garage to load up the bodies. I still had a couple of bags to load in the Jeep when I heard children come into the house. So at this point, Tina and Stephanie have been stabbed to death and dismembered.

And now Sarah and her brother have come home and interrupted this guy. I confronted the children and the girl instantly ran to her bedroom. I stabbed the boy in the chest a couple times. I ran into the bedroom after the girl to make sure she was not on the phone for help. I saw the girl was not on the phone and I could not bring myself to kill her. I did not enter the house to kill those people. I didn't know a single one of them. I didn't know their names and I didn't know who all lived in the house.

I chose the house to break into because there were not any close neighbors and I noticed the garage door was ajar. I chose the house the day before. I did not plan for any of this to happen. I did not want to kill anyone and I tried to just knock the first woman out so that I would be able to escape. This was not working. A second woman showed up and things quickly spiraled out of control. Oh, he's just a really nice guy who got caught up in something bad. Yeah. They kept escalating and I was panicking. I only chose to process the bodies to make their disposal easier. They kept escalating?

Yeah. There's one murderer here, dude, and it's you. Yeah. So the kids come home yeah he kills cody and he like puts him in the bathroom i believe and then he goes and ties sarah up he puts her in the basement of her own home for a little while while he's processing the bodies and then he brings her up and ties her up in the kitchen for some period of time and then he like has all of the bags with the body parts loaded into the car and he lays blankets over it and then he makes her like lay in the car as well um and then he takes her he drives her around for a little bit

and then takes her to his home and then he tells this crazy story of how he spent the next four days like caring for her make letting her take showers fixing her burgers they watched movies together oh yeah it was a great time at one point he did you know show her a video on how to perform oral sex and you know said if she wanted to try it she could and and told this whole narrative about how he was just each day he gave her a little bit more freedom and how he was just going to continue to do that until um she decided to run away no until she decided to run away oh sure yeah sure she decided to run away. Oh, sure. Yeah. Sure, yeah.

She was going to live. Yeah. Okay. He built a campfire outside one day where, you know. Well, what a blast. So one thing I forgot to mention earlier was when they searched his home, they found like a freezer. All it had in it were like cherry popsicles.

And multiple articles specifically mentioned that there were two unskinned squirrels i don't know why you say unskinned well don't you just say squirrels i i don't know i'm creeped out i mean maybe maybe you say unskinned because there are people who eat squirrel so so when he's arrested like all these people come forward and like this guy's a fucking freak he's been weird forever like no kidding dude used to grill squirrels in a fire on his front porch he stopped grocery shopping like all this stuff and so like that's part of it people said that he just like randomly climbed trees all the time um you know all kinds of people you had me at grilled squirrel. Grilled squirrel. He loved grilled squirrel. So he was just like totally great to Sarah the entire time he had her.

You know, she was very upset at certain points and she was like urinating on herself. And so he had to wash the bedding and everything like every day. I mean, like as he's walking through the days and the confession, he's like this day I did laundry and blah, blah, blah. And then we watched the movie. Next day I did laundry and blah, blah, blah. And then we watched a movie. Next day, I did laundry and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, this guy was not doing fucking laundry every day while he was holding this girl captive in his basement. Well, and even if you're doing laundry, who fucking cares? That doesn't mean you're a good dude.

You just murdered three people and you've tied up a child in your basement and you're sexually assaulting her. Oh, but I showed her a movie. Yeah. Great. child in your basement and you're sexually assaulting her right oh but i showed her a movie yeah great so finally he gets to the point where he tells investigators what he's done with the bodies so that he put him in the bags and then he rigged up this crazy pulley system and took them to this big beach tree that he knew was like in this wildlife preserve area somewhere in ohio and beach trees like notorious when they like are over a certain age they hollow out in the middle and so he rigged up this pulley system and he put all of the bags down inside the hollow middle of this tree holy shit no one

would have found no one would have found them no one ever would have found them that's nuts yeah and so investigators go and they find this tree and they cut out like a small portion of it and they like so they can like look down inside sure enough there are all the bags oh my god yeah so tina herman stephanie sprang and cody maynard and the family dog were all inside the tree oh so finally like it comes time for him to be sentenced and his defense attorney is like listen like you know he did like these good things for sarah well you know he's just kind of a, you know, things just kind of went wrong. You know, this isn't what he set out to do. But, you know, we get it. We get it.

And like he pled guilty to all of the charges. And he was sentenced to multiple life sentences without the possibility of parole. At his sentencing, Sarah did make a statement through like a prosecutor read a written statement by her and said that, like, I can't believe that you could do this to anyone. And you've you've impacted the whole rest of my life. Yeah. Following all of this, Sarah came out and did some interviews. She ended up going and living with her father and her stepmother um as the lone survivor of this horrible tragedy yeah and she did some interviews one with meredith viera on good morning american she said nothing that matthew said in his confession

was true he didn't feed her at all he never allowed her to shower like of course none of it was true yeah and she was like i don't i don't even know why he said that and so um she was also on a dr phil episode and like dr phil kind of went into that a little bit and was like yeah that's kind of the like an alternative reality that he had in his head that like oh he's not a bad guy i'm not a bad guy how well i took care of you and i swear i was gonna let you go like he kept telling her you'll be home by christmas you'll be home by christmas um he told he in his confession he said that he looked up um ransom and showed her the

definition he she he said as soon as your family comes through with the ransom i'll let you go but like yeah he'd already murdered her whole family so he'd never he'd never it was completely full of shit yeah yeah so he is serving the rest of his life in prison without the possibility of parole he also got a bunch of extra years for rape and abuse of a corpse and yeah animal cruelty yeah yeah oh Animal cruelty. Yeah. Yeah. Ugh. Poor Sarah, though. So she ends up going and living with her dad. And, like, a couple years later, it comes out that her dad and her stepmom are abusing her.

You're kidding me. No. She gets a protective order against them. And is placed with another family member. At some point, she and her dad wrote a book together. And I can't find the year that it was written but like with an with some true crime writer like in conjunction with him they write this book called the girl on the leaves my fear is that these interviews and that this book was all like some money-making scheme by her dad yeah i mean i'm about to say of course it was and of course i don't know but yeah yeah so yeah poor sarah like just

everything that she's been through to my knowledge she's now living with another family member and is is doing okay and i sure hope she is because that poor girl too i really hope she is that's the story of oh fucking terrible murder and a guy that was obsessed with leaves that is scary yes have you seen the pictures of his bathroom okay look up matthew hoffman bathroom look at the bags of leaves just on the walls what is he doing oh my why is there a trampoline in his living room i don't know where is there a trampoline in his living room?

I don't know. Where is there a trampoline? Okay, you're looking too much at the leaves. You're not looking at the trampoline. Oh, it's, like, up on its side. I don't know. Oh, God. Maybe he used it to bring all the leaves inside.

Wouldn't a tarp have been easier? I don't know. This basement is terrifying yeah and they asked him like during interrogations and stuff like why he made like what's the deal with the leaves and he's like well i wanted her to be comfortable well it could be better than a bed of leaves am i right yeah you know what's really creepy if i saw this guy like walking down the road i wouldn't think anything of him you really wouldn't you really would not the tree has since been cut down so it can't become like a you know a weird like gawker visiting place um meredith viera i thought she did the today show

maybe it was on the today show did i say good morning america yeah i apologize your facts i apologize all right i hate to do the heavy lifting here oh yikes yeah it was terrifying do you have something uh light that okay it's not really light but i have a little case that i we want i want to discuss yeah yeah okay so we talked a little bit about this the other day so i'll for our listeners i'll do some backstory and then i'll tell you what happened today so there was this sheriff in georgia who made up signs to put in sex offenders' front yards in his town, telling kids not to trick-or-treat there.

Said, like, no candy here, sex offender lives here, something like that. Right. So three sex offenders in this town filed a lawsuit against him, saying that this violates their rights. Their right to what, though? I don't know. To be a creep and have kids come to their house? To privately be a creep, apparently. And so they filed this lawsuit against the sheriff.

Sorry, I'm trying to pull up the article that I saved to talk about. I'm sorry. I'm asking you questions, too. Yeah. So the signs say, warning, no trick or treat at this address. They actually don't say, to my knowledge, anything about it being a sex offender living there. It just says warning, warning, no trick or treat. OK. And then has like big like stop sign. Yeah. Symbols on it.

So three sex offenders filed a lawsuit against the sheriff saying that this is against like their first amendment rights. And they sued on behalf of all registered sex offender in butts County, Georgia. So the, this particular sheriff put these signs out last year and then started putting them out again this year when this lawsuit was filed. So a judge ruled on this like today oh really okay yes that because georgia does not have a law against sex offenders being able to hand out candy on

halloween these signs are unconstitutional really yeah and told the sheriff he has to take him down. Oh, come on. I know. So several states have no candy laws, which there's different variations of them. Like some of them are you have to be at home and your lights have to be off. Some of them say you have to post like a letter on your door saying you cannot trigger treat here. Sex offender lives here um there's different variations of this law georgia has no such law and so this judge says it's beyond this sheriff's jurisdiction to be able to do this and it violates those sex offenders first degree right amendment rights first amendment rights first of all these these sex offenders are bold as fuck i agree that

they're like oh it's so hard to be me and now i'm gonna sue yeah no you shouldn't be allowed to have children come to your house yeah i i just don't know about that. I know about it. I say Georgia needs to fucking get on it. So this article says that the three plaintiffs who filed this lawsuit have paid their debts to society and now live productive law-abiding lives. And so they should, like, that was their argument. Right. Are they still on the sex yes register yes well then no that's not how that works yeah part of your debt to society is that

you always have to notify people yeah so the judge says that the sheriff could essentially stand outside those people's house and say kids don't trick-or-treat here but by putting an actual sign in their yard, he's violating their rights. What? I know. You can say it. You can't have a sign that says it. Yeah.

And so that's what the sheriff said. The sheriff said, I wholeheartedly disagree with this decision. But if that means that I have to just up patrols and make sure that kids are safe, that's what we'll do. That sheriff's going to get reelected. Yeah. I mean, who's going to be against that? I know. I just do not under.

I mean, I get the legality of it if georgia does not have a law i mean georgia i am shocked that they don't have a no candy law for sex offenders well it makes me wonder does missouri have one i don't know it seems like that should be everywhere i agree good lord yeah i was very surprised by this oh yeah i mean i would be all for signs letting kids know where a sex offender lives yeah i wonder which which states have no candy laws here's a better image of the sign like yeah it does not say anywhere on there that the person is a sex offender it just says stop warning no trick or treat at this address a community safety message from the sheriff's department yeah i think that's i think that's fine i agree they're lucky i'm not the one writing the signs did i ever tell you about the time norman and i put a bid in on a house

and then found out later that a child molester uh lived like two doors down oh my gosh uh yeah so actually i don't know that it was a child molester. OK, I'm going to keep the details vague because I mean, this this became a famous thing. Mm hmm. There's this house for sale. We put a bid in on it and Norman was doing this thing that he normally does, like he'll kind of look up crime reports, all that stuff. And, you know, we look at the sex offender registry to see like what neighborhoods looking like. And, you know, we look at the sex offender registry to see, like, what neighborhood's looking like.

Two doors down, someone who had been on the school board for years, I believe, was caught with, like, child pornography or something. I don't know that he molested anybody, but yeah. So, I mean, we got on the phone with my dad, like, lightning fast. And we were like, how do we undo this bid absolutely not we don't want to live by that guy yeah i would for sure murder him i'm just thinking if i had to live by someone who i knew did that to kids or watch child pornography. Oh. Oh, yeah. No.

No. I would lure that man to my basement. Here's a quick little paragraph that I found on no candy laws. Okay. The number of states that have passed laws targeting sex offenders and restricting what they can be involved in on Halloween has grown substantially over the years. The laws are put in place to protect children from individuals they are not related to or those whom they have little routine contact outside of a Halloween setting. These laws are a relatively new innovation and following earlier laws such as residency restriction laws and Megan's Law. Several states and city municipalities have enacted laws that

restrict the activities of sex offenders on Halloween. States including California, North Carolina, Texas, Missouri, and Tennessee, for instance, have enacted laws that restrict the activities of sex offenders on halloween states including california north carolina texas missouri and tennessee for instance have enacted laws that restrict registered sex offenders from being involved in halloween activities such as passing out candy on halloween night the law falls into one of two main categories specific restrictions on registered sex offenders or restrictions on individuals on conditional release programs. So Missouri is one. Good. New York has enacted a law referred to as a Halloween zero tolerance law. This law allows investigators to make unannounced visits to registered sex offenders home, make

calls and conduct curfew checks as a way of enforcing the laws. In some states, offenders are ordered to attend meetings with law enforcement or educational programs during the evening hours of Halloween. That's smart. Yes. In Kentucky, police send letters to sex offenders telling them not to have unauthorized contact with children or give out candy. What site is that?

That is sexcrimesattorney.com. All right. I'm a frequent flyer at that website. Top-rated California sex crimes defense law firm. Interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. So Missouri does have one. No mention of Kansas.

Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Whew. Hey, you know what we have to do? Supreme Court Inductions. Guys, this week we're sticking with our theme of names and favorite movie candies. Or, I'm sorry, favorite movie snacks.

Yeah, it doesn't have to be candy. I'm sorry. You could see I was looking through the prism of my own experience. You won't catch me bringing beef jerky into a movie theater. All right. For this week's inductions, Kristen would like you to... Put one hand in your pocket and the other one give the peace sign. Excellent. Carrie Ann Lauren.

Reese's and popcorn. Lynn Bourne, a.k.a. Brandy's mom. I think she wanted to just go by Brandy's mom. Oh, wait. Should I just call her Brandy's mom? Yeah. Well, what do you think? It's fine.

It's fine, mom. Do you want to tell what her favorite drink is? Oh, I thought you were going to redo it. Okay. Do you want me to? No, no, no. Sketcher's shape-ups. She goes to the movies in her Sketchers Shape-Ups.

And she has popcorn, no nasty fake butter, hot tamales, oh yeah, and Diet Coke, never Diet Pepsi. I get it from my mama. Yeah. Lindsey G. Junior Mints and a small popcorn. Man, is she my sister? Danielle Saul. Sour Patch Kids.

Watermelon. Yes, that's the best. Those are the best ones. Guys, if you don't know about them. If you haven't had the Sour Patch Watermelons. Are you really living? No. I'll answer it for you.

Chloe Brooks. Twizzlers. Martin Mayers Jr. Fried octopus. Calamari, that's what you're eating at the movie? No, Martin. No, Martin. There's no way.

I don't believe you for one second. And, I mean, he'd have to sneak it in, so is it in your pocket? You're bringing a whole octopus in your pocket? It's chewy. That is a chewy movie snack. Well, it's fine to have a chewy movie snack. Are you also bringing the dipping sauce? Well, of course you're bringing the dipping sauce.

Martin, I think you're lying. I'm saying it right now. Martin, we need a picture of you in a movie theater eating fried octopus. Darian Jade. Raging Red Sour Punch Straws. Ugh. Ugh. Charlotte Ingebretson. Mary and Jade. Rage and Red Sour Punch Straws. Oh. Oh. Charlotte Ingebretson.

All of them. Oh, and then she did the little piggy. Andre Hardy. Mini Pretzel Bites. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it.

Oh, wait. What if somebody listened to that and they were like, man, how do I become part of that induction? Well, all they have to do is head on over to patreon.com slash LGTC podcast and sign up at the Supreme Court level. It's just $7 a month. You get inducted. You get in a month. You get inducted, you get in the Discord, you get case updates, you get a very special surprise coming soon. You also get a sticker and a card. It's a whole thing. If the $7 level is not for you, there's also a $5 level and a $2 level. And we'd appreciate any support you'd send our way.

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it all back up in my very limited vocabulary and I copy and paste from the best sources on the web, and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the FTC, won't let me be, ABC News, and the Christian Science Monitor and Business Insider. And I got my info from ABC News, the Columbus Dispatch, and the Associated Press. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.