Let's Go To Court! - 95: Mob Bosses! (a.k.a. Bob Mosses)

Episode Date: November 13, 2019

Brandi starts us off with the ultimate mob boss, Al Capone. For years, Al Capone ran Chicago. He was the co-founder and boss of the Chicago Mafia, commonly known as the Chicago Outfit. During the Prohibition era, Capone made big money by operating illegal establishments. Anyone who threatened his businesses was promptly killed. Al did too many illegal things to list, but the most boring one is what took him down. He didn’t pay his taxes. Then Kristin tells us about Dutch Schultz. He may not be a household name today, but in his day, Dutch Schultz was very well known. He was violent, ruthless, and rich. He ran illegal lotteries, operated speakeasies and extorted restaurateurs. Oh yeah. And he didn’t pay taxes. Are we sensing a pattern?  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The book, “The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano: The Mafia Story in His own words” by Martin Gosch and Richard Hammer “Thomas E. Dewey Defeats Dutch Schultz,” historynet.com “Gangster Dutch Schultz died a millionaire, but where did all his money go?” by William DeLong for allthatsinteresting.com “Dutch Schultz,” wikipedia In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Al Capone Trial (1931)” Famous-Trials.com “Al Capone” by Marilyn Bardsley, Crime Library “Al Capone” FBI.gov “Al Capone” wikipedia.org

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode, I'll talk about Dutch Schultz. And I'll be talking about the ultimate Bob Moss, Al Capone.

Oh, you think your Bob Moss is better than my Bob Moss? I think he's a more well-known Bob Moss. Yes, I've never heard of Dutch Schultz. Well, you're about to hear all about him. This is the episode that was voted on by the patrons. That's right. We gave you guys a choice. Did you want to hear about art heists?

Or, wow, okay. Or mob bosses, a.k.a. Bob Mosses. And it was a landslide, folks. It was. Should we, okay. For people who haven't heard the episode where you said Bob Mosses, and it was a landslide, folks. It was. Should we, okay, for people who haven't heard the episode where you said Bob Mosses, should we give a quick? Yeah, one time I was covering this case. I was very excited about it.

I was like totally off script, just going like right off, nailing the facts right off the top of my head. And then I was talking about how this guy was a mob boss only. I was so excited and so into the story that I said he was a Bob Moss. And she was so into it, she didn't even notice until I started dying laughing. That was the kidnapping of Bobby Greenleaf. Yes, it was. And so, oh, and Peanut just did a weird noise and then Kiki did a weird noise.

Just professional podcasters here doing our thing. And so now this is the Bob Moss episode. This is the Bob Moss episode. The people voted for it. Where do these people vote, Kristen? I'm so glad you asked. You go to your local polling place. And it only matters if you live in Florida, Ohio, Michigan.

Just kidding. Just join us over at Patreon. Patreon.com slash LGTCpodcast. If you sign up at the $2 level, you get to vote on episode topics and get case updates. At the $5 level, you get bonus episodes and you get to join the Discord. At the $7 level, that's the highfalutin level, you get all that. Plus, you get an LGTC podcast sticker. You get our little autographs valued at $11 billion.

And should we tell them about what we have cooking? We got hot new stuff coming to you Supreme Court members. Do you smell what the rock is cooking? We've got a new perk for supreme court members coming very soon that i think you guys are going to be really excited about and that's all i'm going to say about that kristen i do have one question though i'm very confused do you said it's lgtc podcast so patreon.com slash lgtc podcast is that a forward slash or a backslash? Shit. It's forward slash, isn't it? We recently learned.

We recently? After doing some research. Kristen recently learned that you don't have to say if it's forward or back. People will figure it out. Go on the World Wide Web at www. All right. All right. Jerk. Tell me about Al Capone. I'm going All right. Jerk.

Tell me about Al Capone. I'm going to talk about our buddy. Okay. So not our buddy, but Al Capone. I feel like he's one of the. Pronounced Capone. It is not.

It is rumored that their last name was pronounced Capone until they like immigrated to the United States. And then they changed. That makes sense. It's not actually true. Oh, but lots of people believe that to be the case. Hang on.

I'm going to readjust my mic. Oh my gosh. What is wrong with our mics today? Neither of us. We're not feeling it. I need to open this before I open it. Like right on the, right into the.

Yeah, that thing is loud. ASMR. You know, Al Capone hung out in Kansasansas city a little bit yeah we had a we had a rough little city back in the day yeah so back in the mob days it went like new york city chicago and kansas city for like the three top organized crime cities did you know know that? We were the bronze medal. We were the bronze medal. Mob cities.

So Al Capone did a bunch of shit. I'm going to touch on some of the bigger things and then talk about what finally brought him down, or we will be here for five days. You better have his entire life story prepared today, Brandy. I do not. Oh. But what I will tell you is al capone was born

alphonse capone i believe oh okay uh you don't even know his real name i mean well i don't know how it's pronounced spell it it is spelled a-l-p-h-O-N-S-E. Alphonse? Alphonse. Alphonse. Okay. Anyway, Al was born in 1899, and it's actually, a lot of people believe he was born in Italy and then came to the United States. He was not.

He was actually the first member of the Capone family that was conceived and born in the United States. Well, that's more than I needed to know. So his mom was actually pregnant with his older brother when they immigrated to the United States. His dad was a barber. His mom was a homemaker who did like sewing stuff. But they were a very normal family. Right in the middle class in in Brooklyn the dad's dream was to come to the United States and open his own barbershop and so he worked a lot of odd jobs until he was able to

do that and then he you know purchased a barbershop and the family like lived above the barbershop yeah um growing up in Brooklyn Al had a pretty, you know, normal life. No one would have guessed at a young age that he would go on to become one of the most like prolific mob bosses of his day. So as Al's growing up in Brooklyn, he takes on like some part time work at like the age of 14 for extra money. So at the age of 14, he like dropped out of school. He got in a fight with a teacher and he the teacher hit him and so he hit the teacher back it was like a female teacher apparently this was super common in that day and age because at that time it was the early 1900s he was born in 1899 so and so yeah he just was expelled and never went back to school again um it was super common to hit kids in school oh yeah like the 60s my grandpa was an elementary school teacher and he had paddles oh yeah but like i don't know that it

was super common for the kids to hit the teachers back but in a bunch of articles that i read it was like teachers and students were constantly getting in fistfights and teachers were often only a couple years older than their students even like at the age of 14 there'd be like a 16 year old teacher yeah so um this is all about my grandpa i believe his first job was to teach a one-room schoolhouse and he was like 19 yeah which is insane yes so he's done with school and he gets kind of this job with this guy around the neighborhood who's kind of like you know kind of like a street gang leader his name is johnny torio and so at a young age al starts doing like side jobs for him and kind of gets in good with this guy but then johnny torio kind of goes off and and um al kind of you know stays he works he gets a job at a restaurant as a bartender through a recommendation from johnny torio and this is all everybody that he's working with in this time has some connection to like organized crime, racketeering, something like that.

So it's actually while he's working this job in this bar that he gets in a fight that leads to the injury that would make him scarred, which would then lead to his nickname, Scarface. So the way that this happened, the thing I read was that this woman and this man came in and they were like sitting at the bar or they sitting at a table at the bar. And Al like went up to wait on him. And he leaned down and whispered in the woman's ear that she had a nice ass and that he meant that in a good way and the man that she was with was actually her brother but he happened to be like in a rival mob than the one that al was affiliated with and so he got up and he like slugged al capone and then he like got a knife out and he cut him three times on his face. Woo. Yeah. And then word got back to Johnny Torrio and to the leader of the other mob and they like all got together and Al Capone had to issue an official apology to this woman for insulting

her. Wow. Yeah. But that's how he got the scar that was on his face that led to his nickname Scarface. I think this is the key for all sexual harassment. Just like slice their faces.

Slice their face open. That's exactly right. By like 1920 or so, Johnny Torrio is running, he's like the top member, one of the top members of the Colosimo mob in Chicago. So they're running like this really big, like underground liquor ring. They're doing sports

betting. They're doing all kinds of crazy stuff in Chicago. And Chicago is like the wild, wild West at that time. They pretty much have free reign of the city. And they're like, this is the place to be get out of New York City. The cops here are in our pocket like it's super easy everybody in this police colosimo i'm not sure that that's how it's pronounced but c-o-l-o-s-i-m-o sure um like every member of that mob has like a little card that they carry in their pocket that if they're ever like harassed by a police officer they have to show they just pull it out yeah and it's like treat this person with the same courtesy you would a member of the force wow yeah and so johnny torio's like come on out here i need a second in command and so um al capone relocates to chicago and things

are great until they're not of course eventually there's like an attempt on johnny torio's life the the guy in charge of the like the guy in charge of johnny torio like the colissimo guy he gets assassinated and then johnny torio's in charge and then someone makes an attempt on his life and he's like fuck this i'm out of here he's like i don't want to be in charge anymore he heads back better to be the number two guy. Yeah. And so he's like, you know what, Al? You're in charge now. Yeah. And so Al Capone takes over the entire operation of what becomes known as the Chicago outfit.

And they are just running Chicago. In the mid to late 20s, this Chicago outfit is bringing in something like a million dollars a year between casinos and running illegal alcohol. Holy shit. Adjusted for inflation. What you got? It's like $1.5 billion. Oh. Yeah. That's crazy.

Isn't that nuts? oh what well okay so do you know like the most famous picture of al capone like when he's like getting ready to go on trial like just the close-up of his face yeah yeah how old would you guess he is in that picture oh god i i haven't seen that picture in a long time should i pull it up yeah yeah okay he's probably only in his 30s hold on hold on okay um this one right here the first one on yeah yeah i'm gonna say he looks gosh 33 he's 33 i think he looks so much older than that no you think this man looks 33 years old kristin oh well no you take the hat off he looks 43 yes that's what a life of crime that's what a life of crime does to you that's hard living so along the way he has married um and he's had a kid and at first like

his his son is also named al um but it's a different version of of al but he's al capone as well it's alf um yeah he's alf but his kid has like development issues and they can't figure out what's going on with him and um he doesn't talk a lot and he has trouble with hearing and stuff like that it turns out he has congenital um syphilis because al capone had syphilis and it was like like left completely untreated yeah oh god yeah I didn't know that. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. So poor. Poor Al Jr. has some struggles growing up. Well, I mean, in addition to his in addition to his dad being Al Capone. Yes. In 1925, something would happen with the Chicago outfit that would like really kind of get Chicago kind of on alert and kind of scared. So they were used to lots of gang activity, lots of mob activity going on. It was

just kind of something people were like, well, if I'm not involved in that, you know, they kill bad guys, bad guys kill bad guys. That's just kind of how it worked. Well, in 1925, the Al Capone's like bootlegging gang was getting tired of being harassed by different members of the law and like the district attorney's office. And so they did like a drive by shooting where they open fired with machine guns and they killed several bootleggers. several bootleggers and then they also killed the assistant state's attorney the assistant state attorney bill mcswigan oh bad idea bad idea really bad idea um and this really like brought a like a magnifying glass onto the violence in the city well yeah because you kill someone yeah in that arena and all of a sudden you've got the government looking at you.

Exactly. And so authorities attempted to charge Al Capone with the murder of Mick Swiggin, but he fixed every grand jury. They sat six grand juries and could not come back with an indictment. That is so shitty. It is. It's so shitty. It just goes to show you what power he had yeah

over he bought everything he bought everybody he bought everybody he bought everything he had everybody in his pocket everyone there was nothing out of reach to him much like myself as i mentioned the the members of the chicago outfit are walking around with these cards in their pocket that say, to the police department, you will extend the courtesies of this department to the bearer. Wow, not a please, not a thank you? No. No.

Can you imagine? No. No. One thing about Al Capone, though, is he did not like the winters in Chicago. They were too cold. They were too windy. He's like Norman. He is like Norman. He is like Norman!

You're just like Al Capone! I am. I'm just like him. Okay, tell them what you say every winter in Kansas City. Why do I live here? Yep. Every time we go outside in the wintertime, why do I live here? It's horrible. And then I have to remind you that

that's the price of being married to this treasure right here. I mean, we used to live in North Carolina. Yeah, well. We could move back. No, we can't because we're here for law school. I mean, whoops. Whoops.

Well, now that we have this award-winning podcast. That's right. That's right. So when the winters would get too bad for him, he would just away to miami where he had this like palatial estate it was surrounded by this 10 foot concrete wall and he would just issue his orders directly from miami and have his little henchmen take them out so i i gave you a statistic that was incorrect earlier because of course i was just doing it from memory and not from my notes at all. So by 1928, the Chicago outfit in its entirety was grossing an estimated $105 million a year.

Oh! Yes. A year? A year. Okay, you said 1.5. I said 1.5. Which I was impressed enough. 105.

Okay, so that is what equals out to a billion. Equals out to, yeah, 1.5 billion. I thought that was some crazy inflation, but anyway. So adjusted for inflation today, that would be 1.5 billion. Gotcha. For all illegal activity. Yeah, I... That's amazing to me.

What I think is amazing is that Al Capone did not think he was a bad guy. You couldn't. He thought of himself as a public benefactor. He said, I've given people the pleasures, shown them a good time. This makes perfect sense to me. I don't think that you can live your life thinking you're a bad person on this big a scale. I think you have to tell yourself that you're doing good stuff. Yeah.

And he totally convinced himself that he wasn't a bad guy. He was just giving the people what they wanted. Yeah. They wanted a gamble? Great. Here's a casino. They wanted booze? Great.

Let me run it to you. They wanted some bad guys murdered in an alley yeah got it chick and he even managed to convince himself when he did have to kill people that wasn't a necessarily a bad thing it was just part of the job. He's quoted as saying, killing a man in defense of your business is like the law of self-defense. It's a little broader than law books look at. Okay. Okay, buddy.

Your business is not the most important thing. It is if you're bringing in $105 million a year. Well, if anything, that means you can stand to take a hit but you know sometimes you gotta kill people and uh and capone just had to be okay with that i do want to say real quick that i pulled the majority of this information from two sources okay um famoustrials.com oh yeah one of our favorites and then crime library yeah so to give you an idea of how okay al capone was with having to kill you know people every now and again um in may of 1928 al capone had kind of gotten word that there

were some former associates of his that were planning to assassinate him. And so he decided to hold a banquet and invite those associates. See, these guys knew that they were plotting against him, but they thought that Al still believed that they were like on good terms with him. Right. And so they were like, great, absolutely. We'll come to the banquet. So they come. He feeds them. They get drunk. And then all of a sudden, the three men are like, find themselves in a room by themselves, tied to a chair, surrounded by Al Capone's like henchmen. Oh, my God.

And then in walks Al Capone with a baseball bat. And he beats each of them to death with the baseball bat. Holy shit. Yeah. Can you prove it was Al? I mean, I wasn't there, Norm. He bought her off. She can't prove it because she's going to say no.

Oh my God. Yeah. So this was one of maybe the more well-known tales of al capone's like reign of terror on the city of chicago but it's not the most famous do you know what the most famous is okay fun fact about me i know jack shit about bob mosses okay so the most famous of all of al capone's um hits or whatever is the saint. Valentine's Day Massacre. Okay. So this happened on Valentine's Day, 1929.

Al Capone was, there was, all of a sudden, there was competition swarming Chicago. There was a fellow bootlegging or a rival bootlegging gang kind of trying to move into the city and move into Capone's territory, and he wasn't having any of it. And that was led by Bugs Moran. And so somehow, Al Capone got word of when they would be expecting like their whiskey delivery. And so they were all at a Chicago warehouse, like a group of seven of these members of the Bugs Moran group were at this Chicago warehouse waiting on this truckload of whiskey when all of a sudden a Cadillac pulls in and four police officers get out. Uh-huh. They line the men up against the wall and they pull out machine guns and kill them all. guns and kill them all and it was al it was believed to be al capone's gang that dressed as dressed as police officers that killed the members of bugs moran's gang and then took their whiskey

uh i would assume so yes i mean it'd be a shame to waste it and as soon as it happened bugs moran was like i know exactly who did this only Only Capone kills like that. Wow. Yeah. So, by 1929, Al Capone's personal worth was estimated to be somewhere around $30 million. Jesus. But he had not paid a single cent in income taxes. In fact, he'd never filed a single income tax return in his name at all.

And so I also read some information off of the FBI's website about Al Capone, and their website said something to the effect of, at this time, the FBI had very little jurisdiction, jurisdiction. Gosh. Or jurisdiction. Jurisdiction over the organized crime that was taking place across the country.

Really? But what they did have jurisdiction over was tax crimes. Okay. This all makes sense now. And so they knew they had to somehow get a handle on what was going on in Chicago. And so they started looking into Capone because two years earlier in 1979, the Supreme Court had ruled that the Fifth Amendment did not protect against self-incrimination when it came to running an illegal business. Oh, wow. Yes.

Okay. So you were still required to report profits from an illegal business. The Fifth Amendment did not protect you from that. When did that ruling come out? Do you know? So that ruling came out in 1927. And it was the United States versus sullivan okay cool so manly sullivan was a bootlegger who was convicted of failing to file a return showing profits from his illegal business

and so it was at that time that they made that ruling that we were like because yeah the the argument is that well yeah my fifth amendment right keeps me from self-incrimination so of course i wouldn't file a tax return saying I'm doing illegal business. Yes. They said, nope, sorry, doesn't protect you when it comes to income taxes. That is fascinating. Yes. Yeah. And so the Secretary of Treasury, President Herbert Hoover, like all the FBI, they all get in, start looking into Al Capone and trying to figure out if they can nail him on tax evasion.

But it's really hard to prove. They set up an office in the Chicago post office building, and they started trying to put a case together. They met with all kinds of people who could attest to Capone's extravagant lifestyle. They examined department store records, jewelry store receipts, car dealership, hotel records, any kind of evidence of Al Capone's spending. They uncovered purchases of furniture, custom made clothing, diamond studded belt buckles. What are you trying to say? What are you trying to say, Brandy? diamond studded belt buckles what are you trying to say what are you trying to say brandy but so much of this was difficult to track to capone himself because it was done under all kinds of different names under the chicago outfit like umbrella yes none of it was directly tied to al capone they were we're going to need the help of someone inside to be able to nail this on al capone okay and that wasn't going to be easy because people are terrified to turn

against al capone that just guarantees you're going to be killed right yeah with a baseball bat right while people watch yes no thank you yeah um you know it's interesting did you watch boardwalk empire no okay so i am pretty sure that that scene is included in boardwalk empire okay where al capone beats the men to death with the with the baseball bat oh because al capone is heavily featured in yeah in boardwalk empire it's so. I can't believe you've never watched it. I'm sorry. Norm, you seen it? Nope.

What? You guys are wrong. So while they were successful in kind of like tracking down this evidence of expenses and stuff like that, they couldn't prove that Al Capone was actually, like, taking a salary of any kind. And so it was just, it was almost like it was a dead end. It just was a whole bunch of stuff that looked very obvious, but nothing concrete. Yes. Oh, that sucks.

Yeah. yeah so they kind of like start reaching out to members maybe like people on the outskirts of capone's group just seeing if they could pick some kind of weak fruit off and see if they can get something and somehow they start talking to this guy eddie O'Hare. So he was the owner for... As in Chicago O'Hare Airport? Yes. Oh, my God. What? Yes.

Yeah, in 1949, Chicago built the new International Airport, and they named it after this guy. Okay, okay, continue. I am dying here. So he was also the owner of the patent for that mechanical rabbit that they use in greyhound racing. I don't know what you... Have you ever seen a greyhound racing i don't know have you ever seen a greyhound race no okay so in a greyhound race before they let the dogs out they take this mechanical rabbit takes off and that's what they chase around the track oh okay yeah and the

mechanical rabbit has its own little track and it just goes around in a circle yeah that's how they that's how they run yes chase it so he was very into dog racing and he ran the races for Capone. Like in Capone's own, like, you know, part of his, you know, whole Chicago outfit or whatever. Right, right. He also did stuff for, like, he had set up races and all of that and in florida as well as massachusetts i guess anyway somehow they get this guy talking to police and he's like yeah i know some stuff but i'm you know terrified to you know go against algopone and anyway he ends up being one of the he ends up, somehow getting them some ledgers that had been used to track expenses and income and all of that.

And while none of them said specifically Al Capone's name, like one column in the ledger was labeled Al, while some of the other ones were named, were named with names of other members who were. Okay. Like one was labeled Pete, one was labeled ralph right one was labeled a and so it was like well it didn't specifically say this is money that al capone is making it was like not a leap to see that this was a record of income right that was being paid to al capone so this was like a huge step in completing a a case against Al Capone. Yeah. So at the same time, they give those ledgers over to, like, a handwriting expert, and they nail down who they think wrote all of these ledgers, and it's this guy named Leslie Shumway.

He had signed a bunch of deposit slips that were linked to bank accounts owned by the Chicago Outfit. And they brought him in and started talking to him. And he agreed to talk. He gave, he signed affidavits saying, yes, that money on those checks, that ledgers, that was all stuff that was being paid to Al Capone.

Yes, he could attest all of it. And so they took all that down. And then they very quickly shipped him off to California and like kept him protected so that nobody could come and kill him wow yeah right so in april of 1930 they're really getting a case together and then they're like sitting there in their office one day i guess and lawrence mattingly who's this attorney that was representing al capone walks in and he's like all right we know

you're putting together a case for al capone you know we're my client's willing to work with you let's work a deal he hands him this letter and he's like this is what he's willing to work with you. Let's work a deal. He hands him this letter. And he's like, this is what he's willing to attest to he'll pay he'll pay taxes on this amount. And that's it. Like no more. Final offer. That's exactly it. And so how much was it? Like nothing. Okay. The letter admitted to taxable income for like like there were six years that they were talking about from 1924 to 1929. And the amounts that this letter claimed was somewhere between $26,000 in 1924 to up to $100,000 in 1928 and 29. Yeah. And so they're like, this is what we'll pay taxable income on.

And if you want to take us to jail, max two and a. Yeah. And so they're like, this is what we'll pay taxable income on. And if you want to take us to jail, max two and a half years. You don't get to decide that. Right. So at this, like while all of this had been going on shortly before kind of, Al Capone had had some run-ins with the law

that he had not been able to get out of. So one had been, they had been trying to get him to appear before a grand jury and he kept coming up with excuses saying he was sick and couldn't do it and finally they held him in contempt of court and he ended up serving like a year in jail over it wow yeah and then there was another instance where he ended up serving like a year in jail so he wasn't afraid to do a little bit of time he knew he could still maintain his control he had enough people you know working close to him on the outside that he was like okay i'll do a little bit of time but i'm not giving up all my money and i'm not doing any more than two and a half years yeah

yeah and i know i call the shots so they're definitely gonna go for this yeah except they didn't they didn't well that's not even exactly true someone didn't go for it okay okay um this letter the investigators kind of stowed away and this would become kind of a really big talking point when we get to trial later okay because it was given to investigators by al capone's lawyer when al capone was not present so did the lawyer have permission to be just handing over that kind of admission yes come on how can you say for sure and at like at these there so there were a couple of these meetings that took place where they're like this is what we're willing to do and not a second more and blah blah blah and at one of these meetings that took place where they're like, this is what we're willing to do. And not a second more. Blah,

blah, blah. And at one of the meetings, Al Capone was present. And when he got up to like leave, he was like, he asked the, um,

the like lead investigator. He's like, how's your wife? Oh shit. And like, of course that was seen immediately as a threat. Yeah. And so this guy's like,

no, I'm not fucking around anymore. Like we're taking this guy for everything we can get. Like I'm not taking this piddly piece of paper. Like, how's your wife? How's your wife? Fuck off. Right?

Ugh. Yeah. So finally, investigators, prosecutors, Al Capone and his lawyer agree on this plea deal. He'll plead guilty to X amount of dollars. He'll pay back the back taxes in, you know, some piddly amount. And he'll pay back the back taxes and you know some piddly amount and he'll go to jail for two and a half years they go to court they present this to the judge and the judge is like i need to think about it wow and so he like says i'm going to take two weeks to think about it um will or i'm sorry he gives himself like a month to think about. So they meet, they have a hearing

on July, on June 18th. And he says, I'm going to think this over and then we'll reconvene on July 30th and I'll tell you my ruling on the plea. So in the meantime, Al Capone's out there just like running his mouth. He's like, don't worry. I got a plea plea deal i'm not going anywhere like and he's talking to anybody who will listen and then i think this is probably what really really did him in because he made this big public statement about how you know i've been made an issue here and and you know i'm not complaining but why don't they go after all those bankers who took the savings of thousands of poor people that um and lost them in the bank failures because think about the timing here we're in the early 30s now yeah the stock market crash has just happened people lost everything banks failed we've just entered the great depression yeah

and he's like i don't know why they're making such a big deal about me well why don't we look at all those banks uh-huh and this did not go over well why not so when they when they um reconvene the judge is like nope i will not accept your plea deal. Criminals don't get to make deals. Amazing. We will be going to trial. I'm changing your plea to not guilty. I love criminals do not get to make deals because criminals make deals all the time. I feel like this judge was like, I'm tired of the organized crime that is just totally taken over this city, taken over the country at this time. Like I might be able to have a small impact and this is what I'm going to do. Yeah. I love that.

Yes. What year was this? It's 1930. Okay. Okay. 1931. I'm sorry. Damn it, Brandy.

I was very close. Okay. So now it's like two weeks before Al Capone's trial is to begin. And Eddie O'Hare, remember him? Oh, yeah. He comes to investigators and he's like, hey, Al Capone has the entire list of prospective jurors and witnesses. He's got his hands on all of them and he's paying them off with $1,000 bills.

He's passing out $1,000 bills left and right. I don't actually know that $1,000 bills still existed then. They did actually used to exist. I don't think they did by this time, but I think it's just like a figure of speech. Wait, how was he still so well-connected that he knew this? Yeah, I don't know. Okay, that's fascinating. Yes, how was he still so well connected that he knew this? Yeah, I don't know.

Okay, that's fascinating. Yes, but he definitely had the inside news. So the prosecutor and the district attorney are like, fuck, what do we do? And so they take Eddie O'Hare and they take him to the judge and they're like, tell him what you told us. Yeah. And so he tells him and the judge is like the attorneys and everything they've spent hours looking into prospective jurors and whatever and

all of this and getting their witness lists and they're like all of this work is going to go out the window if he has been able to bribe every single person involved in this trial. Sure. And so the judge listens, and he said, well, I haven't yet received the jury list, so I don't know how Capone could have received the potential juror list at this point. Uh-huh. And so Eddie gives him a list of names, and when the potential juror list comes in,

the names are an exact match. Al Capone was more well-connected than the judge. Yes. And so the judge was not concerned at all. He was like, bring your case. Gentlemen, bring your case into court as planned.

Leave the rest to me. Well, what the hell was he going to do? It's awesome. Okay. Just wait. I i am so i'm loving this okay so it's october 5th 1931 we're at the downtown courthouse in chicago capone is brought in he's like looking smug as fuck because he's like i bought my trial don't you worry yep everything gets set everybody's sitting down judge wilkerson who is presiding takes over he gets on the bench he looks out in the pat courtroom and then he says to the bailiff judge edwards has a trial commencing today in another room go to his courtroom bring me his

entire panel of jurors oh and take my entire panel and give them to Judge Edwards. I am creaming my jeans. He, I know! He just at the last second completely switches out the jury so there's no way they could be rigged. That is amazing. Is that not amazing? Like, how did he even come up with that? Did they have video of all the people going

right should i edit out cream no i love it you said cream i didn't even know you could do that that's amazing either i'm guessing it would not work in today's court system but because the defense and the prosecution all have a say in who yeah yeah seated on the final jury but The prosecution all have a say in who is seated on the final jury. But well, I mean, I guess. Except that at that point, they hadn't actually set the jury. That was just the jury pool. So he just brought in a fresh jury pool. Oh, yeah.

So that would that could still happen today. I love it. They set a jury of 12 members from that pool instead of the tainted one. That is the best thing ever. So those other jurors were like, hey, this is great. I just got thousands of dollars. And I don't have to lie about anything. And I'm no longer involved in any way with Al Capone, I hope.

By the way, fact check. They may have been handed a $1,000 bill. They were in circulation until 1946. Okay. That is crazy. It is crazy. So do you know why they stopped doing denominations that big? No, why?

Because it was a problem for drug running because it became really easy to transport large amounts of money in and out of the country. Yeah, money laundering. Oh, I had no idea. Yeah. Interesting. Okay. I mean, yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. Interesting. Okay.

I mean, yeah, I guess a briefcase full of... Yeah, $1,000 bills. It's a pretty light briefcase. Yeah. So finally, a jury is selected. I love it. 12 members who are not tainted. Uh-huh.

And the trial is underway. The assistant U.S. attorney, Dwight Green, laid out the 23 charges against Al Capone. They were all tax evasion. And he, you know, explained how this man is rolling in dough and he hasn't paid a dime to the government. And that's the worst thing he's ever done. And that's the worst thing he's ever done. The prosecution presented all kinds of evidence that Capone owned gambling halls and drew tons of profits from those and that he owned all kinds of other things. Smoke shops, gambling machines.

He was running alcohol. Yeah. All kinds of things that were bringing in all kinds of money. They called Leslie Shumway to the stand. He's the guy that was like, yeah, those checks were paid

to Al Capone. That was the guy that they were able to match his handwriting to the ledgers and that's how they tracked him down and sent him off to California for safekeeping. Another guy,

and I can't remember where I read this, but another guy who was going to be called as a witness. They sent off to South America for safekeeping because they were like, Well, that's where i would want to go yeah as far away as possible yeah absolutely yeah and so that he talked about how he did all the accounting everything for all of the gambling

halls and he estimated that for the two years that he had worked there he had recorded over $550,000 in profits. But he stopped short of identifying Al Capone as his boss. He wouldn't do it. Wow. Yeah. Was that just fear? I think so, probably. Or he felt he owed him.

Or if he did it, he would surely die. Yeah. Like maybe that was the last thing he thought he could do to possibly save his life. Yeah. You're testifying against Al Capone. I would, I'd have the Bed Bath & Beyond bag strapped to me the whole time. So remember that letter that I told you about? That, that...

These are my confessions. Yes, yes. That Al Capone's lawyer gave to the prosecution and was like this is all that we'll admit to so the prosecution wanted to bring this up as evidence at trial of course they did but the defense said uh-uh a lawyer cannot confess for his client this should not be admissible in court and right yeah it's true yeah it is true a lawyer cannot confess said he said that this capone never meant to give his lawyer the authority to make statements that may get him into prison uh-huh and that uh sorry too bad so sad the jury can't see it and you can't present it as evidence and so the judge like thought it over and he said that the jury could see the letter just as evidence that it existed okay and that the prosecution could make the claims they wanted on it, but that the jury couldn't take it as fact.

Okay. What do you think about that? I couldn't take it as fact. Yeah, like they could see the letter and they could see that, yes, the claims that the prosecution are making, there is a letter that kind of matches those, but they can't take that as a confession from Al Capone. Okay. Because it wasn't written directly by him. He didn't give the authority. Okay.

You don't like that? You think the jury shouldn't have been able to see it at all? No, I think, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, so this is the official decision that the judge said. The letter would be admitted to show that the statement was made. But the contents of the letter could not be considered by the jury as proof of a confession. I think it is a confession.

It is a confession. That's exactly right. I think that's so contradictory. Yeah. I think that. You know what I'm struggling with? I'm coming down on Al Capone's side and I don't want to be on this side. The prosecution had called several witnesses who said, you know, they worked in, they'd been affiliated with, somehow, you know, involved in the Chicago outfit.

They knew millions and millions of dollars were being brought in. And, of course, Al Capone was taking his share of it the defense presented its case in a single day they tried to present this is a terrible argument they said al capone was a horse rating racing addict and that he lost as much money doing that as he had as his businesses had earned so and yet he had an amazing place in miami this is a terrible argument okay because gambling losses are only deductible against gambling winnings you can't deduct them against earnings so it doesn't fucking matter so even if like that defense had been accepted by the jury, it still wouldn't have outweighed the income that he still would have had to claim. Amazing. Yes.

Yeah. It was a terrible defense. to testify and showed that Capone lost somewhere around $327,000 over six years, which would have been nothing. Yeah, it's like, yeah, to a normal person, that would be just staggering. Yes. To him, not so much. Yeah.

In the defense's closing arguments, they said, like, you know, hey, this is the oppressive government at work here don't hold our poor boy al accountable for what this government have you seen what the government is doing right now folks which again i think is a terrible argument uh-huh he said don't convict capone merely because he's a bad man no he may be the worst man who ever lived but there's not a scintilla of evidence which i don't know what a scintilla is a scent there's a scintilla of evidence that he willfully attempted to defraud the government out of income tax well yes there is sir There's plenty of scintillas. And then somehow at the end, he completely switched gears and he was like, you know, Capone's not actually that bad. He's an open handed, generous, kind man who never fails a friend. You know, he's kind of like Robin Hood.

Okay, he's the worst or he's the best. I mean, what is he, dude? Exactly. Exactly. He is not the miser or ten horn or piker that the government

would want you to believe. What the hell is a piker? I don't know. It's an old timey insult. How do you spell that? P-I-K-E-R. A gambler who makes only small bets.

I think that's a terrible argument yeah in australia it means a person who withdraws from a commitment he said you gentlemen talking to the jury right are the last barrier between the defendant and the encroachment and perversion of the government and the law in this case can we pause for me to wipe my tears my goodness um then the prosecution got up and gave their closing argument and they were like, Capone himself calls himself a gambler, a realtor, a cleaner. And he lived like a bejeweled prince. He spent thousands of dollars without thinking twice. And then he talked about the incriminating nature of the letter that the you know jury had been

allowed to see but not take into account he said look listen this guy was willing to go to jail for two and a half years over this yes come on um he told the jury that even a child could deduce from capone's lavish lifestyle that he had a huge income. Yeah, he was a vajazzled prince. Yes, a vajazzled prince. Excuse me? And he finished his closing argument by saying, this is a case that future generations will remember. They will remember it because it will establish whether a man

can so conduct his affairs that he is above the government and above the law i actually think that's a really good point yeah it was a really good argument the jury deliberated for eight hours what do you think they found do you know i don't i'm so clueless about this stuff did they find him they found him guilty okay wow yeah they found him they found him guilty and six days later he was sentenced to 11 years in prison it was the longest term ever handed down for tax evasion yeah as al capone was let off in handcuffs he yelled i'm not through fighting yet all of his appeals failed and capone was sent to um the federal penitentiary to serve out his

sentence he started um initially in atlanta and then he was transferred to alcatraz um and i think so i think it's like widely remembered that he spent like the rest of his life in to Alcatraz. And I think so, I think it's like widely remembered that he spent like the rest of his life in prison

or he died in prison. He didn't. He was released in prison in 1939 after serving less than eight years. But he completely lost control

of the Chicago Alcatraz by that time. Of course. And actually, a lot of people credit him going to prison with like the downfall of organized crime in general wow it didn't end with that but it became much less prolific and like well yeah once you take out the head guy exactly 11 years for tax shit that's gonna scare some

people so it was still definitely going on and like Chicago underground. It just was not as prevalent. So he was released in November of 1939. And he was like super sickly at this time. He was dealing with all kinds of problems from late stage syphilis. He had never been treated for syphilis. He was referred to Johns john hobbs john's hobbskins hospital in baltimore and they refused to treat him based on his reputation they would not see him they would not admit him and so he went to union memorial hospital which is there in baltimore and they took him in and

they gave him care and like he was treated there for several weeks huh yes from like November of 1939 to March of 1940 he was there receiving care for all of these ailments that he had because of this syphilis he was so grateful for this care that he received that he actually donated two Japanese cherry trees to Union Memorial Hospital in 1939. Yeah. Okay. So he was released from the hospital after receiving this care in March of 1940, and he went to Florida to live out the rest of his days with his family.

He lived at his, you know, kind of, he still had that palatial estate in Miami. He lived there with his wife and his grandchildren, I think. He was able to keep that somehow wow okay they could only prove like yeah a small amount of money so yeah fair fair um and then on january 24 21st 1947 al capone had a stroke he um briefly regained consciousness after it, but he died of cardiac arrest a couple days later. Wow. Yeah. Originally, he was buried at Mount Olivet Cemetery in Chicago.

But in 1950, his remains, along with several of his family members, were moved to Mount Carmel Cemetery in Hillside, Illinois. Wow. Yeah. So why did the O'Hare guy get the airport named after him? They were grateful? I think they were just so grateful for what he had done. Yeah. Well, I mean, that was very brave.

And it could be. It could be. There could be other reasons behind it, too. He might have. He turned informant. So he probably informed on lots of other stuff, too, I'm guessing. Gotcha. Yeah. So, probably like informed on lots of other stuff too, I'm guessing. Gotcha. Yeah.

So yeah. That's amazing. That's the story of Al Capone and how tax evasion brought him down. Well told. Thank you. Ugh. Okay.

Aw. Aw, look at the geeks. You guys, Kiki's on Norman's lap. It's very cute. Okay. You guys ever heard of Dutch Schultz? No, never. You, Norm?

Uh, sounds familiar. I had never heard of him. I think this story is fascinating. Excellent. Okay, first off, shout out to Wikipedia. Big fan. For the court stuff, Wikipedia will let you down. So you gotta go to the book, The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano, The Mafia Story in His Own Words.

Not written by him, interestingly. It's written by Martin Gosch and Richard Hammer. Have heard of Lucky Luciano. Sure. Yes. Are you a big Bob Moss fan? I'm really not. There's a couple that i think are really interesting lucky

is one of them okay okay i got really into boardwalk empire so also old-timey disclaimer i'm not gonna go into it you guys know what the old timey old-timey disclaimer here same with mine yeah i'm doing a i'm doing a back oh you roll your eyes and yeah you would like the old timey as well on mine what if someone's starting with you would like the old-timey disclaimer. I would like it as well on mine. What if someone's starting with this episode? Okay, quick old-timey disclaimer means that this case is old. There's lots of conflicting information. We went with what

seemed most accurate. Okay, very good. Let's talk about a Bob Moss named Dutch. Oh, God. Name Dutch. Name Dutch Schultz what he was born Arthur Simon Flegenheimer oh great I would have changed my name to Dutch Schultz okay so he he had a funny line he said

he changed his name because Flegenheimer was too long for newspaper headlines. So, fair. He was born in 1901. And when he was like around nine years old, something bad happened at home. It appears his dad just took off. And he abandoned Dutch, Dutch's little sister, his mom. It could also be the case that the man died, but it seems much more likely that, you know,

it's way better to say that your husband died than that he took off or that you're divorced in 1910. At any rate, with his dad gone, Dutch had to step up to the plate. So he dropped out of school in the eighth grade and began working. He started work at a bunch of different places, gone dutch had to step up to the plate so he dropped out of school in the eighth grade and began working he started work at a bunch of different places but toward his late teens he started working at a nightclub which is run was run by like i'm calling everyone a mob boss obviously everyone's not a mob boss this guy was like a baby mob boss right but fun fact mentors

are everywhere if you look for them and you can still learn a ton from all kinds of people, and that's exactly what Dutch did. And he got super into petty theft and burglary. Okay. He wasn't great at it, though, because he immediately got caught breaking into someone's apartment. So when he was just 18 years old, he went to prison. But our dude Dutch was a bit of of a handful and the prison was like holy

fuck what are we gonna do with this kid he's too damn much so they sent him to a work farm in long island so dutch went off to the work farm escaped they found him somehow they were like don't you dare do that again we're adding two whole months to your sentence. Yeah, right? Can you believe that? And Dutch was like, absolutely. I will stop being a bad guy starting... now. Dutch got out of prison in December of 1920. And even though he was out on parole and should have been behaving himself,

that was not his style. No. He went to work for Schultz Trucking, which sounds perfectly legit, but it was actually just like smuggling tons of alcohol in from Canada. Just like your case, this was happening in Prohibition. Yeah. Turns out was not a great idea, had a ton of unintended consequences. It allowed the Bob bosses to thrive. Yes. It allowed the Bob bosses to thrive.

Yes. So now we're in the mid 1920s and Dutch got a job as like, I think he was a bouncer at the Hub Social Club. It was the speakeasy in the Bronx and it was run by a man named Joey No. Joey thought Dutch was the best. Dutch was this gigantic asshole who got mad very easily. So one day Joey was like, yo Dutch,

I like the cut of your jib. What? I'm a big fan. You ever heard that? I like the cut of your jib. No, it's the cut of your jib. What is that? He's like, I like you.

I like your style. It sounds like he likes the outline in his pants. Oh God. That's what that sounds like. Is it? Hang on. Norm, what do you think? Is that what that sounds like?

Yes. One's general appearance or personality, as in, I don't like the cut of Ben's jib. That totally sounds like notices his bulge. A jib is a sail at the front of a sailboat. Yeah, I know what a jib is. Do you? It means I like the way you look. I like your front sail.

Yeah. I like the cut of your front sail. Okay, yeah. Joey looked at Dutch and was like, I like the cut of your boner. No, that's not how this works. Hey, no one said he had a boner. Yeah, he's just checking out his moose knuckle. Okay, okay.

Oh, I'm sorry. You can say creamier jeans. I can't say moose knuckle. Yeah, when I take over, it's like a classier time, Brandi, okay? So he's like, I love the front of your sailboat. I want to promote you. I want you to join me as partner. So these two became long-term friends.

They were excellent business partners. They franchised their little speakeasies all over town like little Whataburgers. And they met this lovely little home brewer in Union City, New Jersey. So they drive out to him with their own trucks, get their beer and take it to their speakeasies. So in other words, there was no middleman. They were just making all this money. They were killing it. There was just one problem though. Alcohol, despite being super illegal, was also quite popular. Yes. And so Dutch and Joey had competition.

The competition came from a lot of other guys, but two of these guys were John and Joe Rock, these two brothers. So they went to John and Joe and they were like, hey, lovely little operation you got here. How about you start buying your beer from us? And they were like, no. No, thank you. Yeah, we're good. So Dutch and Joey put the pressure on them. And finally, the older brother said, fine, fine, we'll buy your beer. But the younger brother was stubborn and he kept telling them, no, we're not going to buy your beer so how did dutch

and joey solve this problem how well you know they didn't overreact or anything they just simply got their gang to go kidnap this younger brother good they beat him up they hung him this is so bad they hung him on a meat hook from his thumbs and then they took a bandage which was soaked in gonorrhea discharge oh god and they wrapped it i can't know and they wrapped it they wrapped it around his eyes i have a question where do you even get gonorrhea discharge from the cut of someone's jib the whole bandage was soaked in gonorrhea discharge how did they even get that it's incredible they even got that. I'm glad you're impressed. Incredible!

That's a real misuse of the word incredible. Ripley's believe it or not. So that's what they did to this man. Oh my gosh. Meanwhile, his family was freaking the fuck out. They ended up paying like $35,000 for these horrible people to release him. Obviously, the dude went blind. I mean.

Yeah, he has gonorrhea discharge in his eyes. Too much gonorrhea discharge. Oh. Oh, no. Is that not the nastiest thing you've ever heard? It's so disgusting. And how did it smell? Oh, how do you think?

Oh, it smelled great. It smelled great. He's like, it's like those Febreze commercials where they book you. Book you? No! And they're like,

am I in a spa? Am I in the meadow? No, you've got a re-indischarge wrapped around your face. And that's a meat hook in your thumbs. Oh, God! Febreze's new ascent Gunnery discharge

You guys we are sponsored by Febreze So next time you're at the store Mention us at checkout You're not going to believe this But once word got out About what Dutch and Joey had done People really didn't mess with them Turns out nobody wanted the gunnery discharge but once word got out about what Dutch and Joey had done, people really didn't mess with them.

Turns out nobody wanted the gonorrhea discharge. Doesn't that sound like a metal band? Oh, God. Yeah, like Blood Dumpster. Yeah, do we need to trademark this? So, you know, all of a sudden nobody's messing with them anymore, and they are just making more money than ever before. But it was hard out there for a mob boss, because even though there was a lot of money to be made,

you had to deal with just the worst people on earth and as dutch and joey's gang grew bigger they started to catch the attention of larger more established bob mosses and these guys had never heard of the concept of sharing so in particular new york's irish mob was led by this guy jack legs diamond and he was not thrilled when dutch and joey's gang moved their headquarters into his territory yes so in october of 1928 he cut their legs off yeah how did he get the leg i want to know what if he just had real nice legs so someone or real nice hands. So someone, or maybe multiple someones, probably multiple someones, tracked down Joey No to a speakeasy located at 231 West 54th Street, New York.

New York. It's kind of lame. It's just a Marriott now. I know. Sorry. This Marriott used to be a speakeasy? It sure did. Hmm.

Wow. So they shot him and Joey fired back. And then, you know, the killers jumped into a blue Cadillac. They fled the scene. They hit a bunch of cars on the way. At one point, they lost one of the car doors. What? It was a mess.

I realize it sounds like they misplaced one of the car doors. It fell off along the way somewhere. When the police finally found the car, they discovered the dead body of a man named Louis Weinberg in the back. Joey Noe held on for like a month, but eventually he died from his injuries. This left Dutch grieving and desperate for revenge. And this may surprise you,

but he kind of overdid it. Yeah. He knew that Jack Legs Diamond had ordered the hit. So Dutch was like, like fine you kill my long-term friend i kill your long-term friends see how you like it so dutch ordered a hit on jack's close associate arnold rothstein and you know sure enough he dies yeah okay was that enough no no of course not two years later jack legs diamonds Diamond was chilling in his Jimmy Jams at the Hotel Monticello in Manhattan. Monticello?

Monticello. It's only Monticello if you're talking about Thomas Jefferson. Okay. When two gunmen burst into his hotel room, they shot him five times and fled. times and fled jack sat there with five bullets in him drank two shots of whiskey stood up walked out to the hallway and fired back what i'm you know all these stories about these bob mosses it's always but they fired back and i'm wondering there's. No. But it's a good story. It is a good story. Did he die? Um, well, this happened in the 30s. So, yeah, eventually he did.

Okay, so Jack eventually recovered. What? From five gunshots? Yeah, I'm wondering, what kind of guns were these? BB guns? Yeah. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. He was rushed to the hospital.

And eventually, like, after he recovered recovered he went to europe for a while but in the meantime his gang disbanded this is the problem with being a bob moss you'd go away for tax evasion for 11 years you know things kind of fall apart so in 1931 he came back to new york he was ready to kick ass and take names and get his territory back. And Dutch had him killed. Yeah. So, you know, you can't always go back home. No. So our boy Dutch was super busy, just slam packed, planner just filled, ordering all these killings and becoming the best little Bob Moss that he could be. But, you know Dutch wasn't just a cold-blooded killer. He was also a boss-ass bitch. Okay.

He had all these employees, and frankly, some of them were a little ungrateful. Because the way these things normally worked in like a little mob gang, I guess, is that you go out, you do some illegal thing, and everyone gets their cut. But with Dutch, he didn't do it that way. He gave all of his employees a salary, which was totally not the norm. And some of them didn't like it.

And one of those dudes was Vincent Cole. And Vincent came to him one day and was like, look, boss, I've been working my ass off for you. I deserve a raise. I want to be your partner. Why don't you make me your long-term friend? Excellent. And he was like, Vinny, I hate your face.

Pretty much. Dutch was like, no. Yeah. There's one leader of this criminal enterprise. And that is me. And you're looking right at him. Vincent didn't take it very well. He was like, fine.

You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to start my own gang. Oh, shit. And you know the number one job of my gang? It's going to be to murder you. And then, once you are dead, we will take over everything. Ooh.

So that's exactly what Vincent set out to do. For like two years, there was just a ton of bloodshed. Dozens of people died. It was really bad. At one point, a child was killed, which I didn't read up much on this, but it just seemed like the kid was in the wrong place at the wrong time. No one had set out to kill a child. But like, you know, you're killing all these people. these people yeah you know but guess who came out on top dutch you bitch

he set a trap where vincent would be lured into like a phone booth at a drug store and once he was in there a bunch of dudes burst into the store with machine guns and killed him. Oh my gosh. So Dutch Schultz remained powerful. He was violent. He was ruthless. He was a total asshole, feared by a ton of people, and for good reason. Yeah. But then, like, Prohibition was starting to end,

and his main source of income, oopsies, was no longer this cash cow. Yeah. But like any good CEO, he knew how to pivot. What did he pivot into? He created a fun little lottery for people to play. Smart. Yeah.

Well, I mean, it's illegal, but still. Okay. It was like a you pick three lottery. And he had a new one every day. It was super popular. People loved it. Only thing was. It was rigged you pick three lottery. And he had a new one every day. It was super popular. People loved it. Only thing was. It was rigged.

Nobody ever won. So it's not that no one ever won. It was that he hired this guy who was like a math genius. And he like knew the odds. He knew how to work it in his favor. So your chances of winning in this lottery were like non-existent. So all of a sudden he's got tons of money coming in from that yep but that wasn't enough oh by the way i should mention dutch was making tons of money

um not paying a cent in taxes just a little foreshadowing for you in case we're wondering what happens to Bob Moss's. In addition to that, Dutch began running the Metropolitan Restaurant and Cafeteria Owners Association. Excellent. Yeah. Until you find out that he forced restaurant owners and restaurant workers to join his organization and pay him money. Okay. And if they refused, no big deal. That was totally fine.

He would just beat the shit out of them. Yeah, I was going to say. And then if you were running a restaurant, he would throw a stink bomb into your restaurant. So good luck keeping people in your restaurant that smells like pure shit. Excellent. Yeah. as the years passed dutch was getting richer and richer and more and more notorious until finally he was indicted for income tax evasion in 1933 this is how they get you that's how they get you i don't know if you heard about this al capone thing i think it's capone

so he needed to stand trial, obviously. But the police were just having a hell of a time tracking him down. So I saw a few different reasons. I saw some things saying like, yeah, he was out and about. People knew where he was. And obviously there were a lot of corrupt politicians, a lot of corrupt people at that time. And, you know, maybe even if you weren't a corrupt police officer, maybe you don't want to be the one who takes his life into his own hands trying to get some mobster for tax evasion.

Yeah. So anyway, bottom line was he was kind of hiding out. He was not turning himself in at all. So he's either like hiding out or hiding in plain sight whatever yeah bottom line dutch was freaking out he did not want to go back to prison and he knew that a jury would find him guilty i mean he'd been making millions of dollars he knew he knew what was gonna happen he said well what year is it this was 1933 okay so capone had already gone down okay well there you go there you go yeah so he's like fuck this is how they get you 11 years

so this whole time that he was in hiding he was consulting with his shitty corrupt lawyer named richard dixie davis rich Richard Dixie Davis, he'd always sought his counsel. This guy was like Saul Goodman. Yeah. One day, while Dutch was still in hiding, Dixie came to him with an idea. He was like,

how about we just make all this go away? Yeah. Great idea! I've got this men away. Yeah. We will... Great idea! I've got this men in black, but... Great! We will offer the government $100,000

as settlement for all your back taxes. In exchange for dropping the charges. Sound familiar? Yeah. So he got this idea from Al Capone's lawyer. But it didn't work for Al Capone, and it didn't work for Dutch Schultz either. When Dixie approached the government with this offer,

they said, we don't do business with criminals. Europe. So finally, you know, one source said two years, another source said one year after a lot of hiding um dutch got so paranoid that the fbi was just gonna find him and murder him that he turned himself in in november of 1934 what he thought the fbi would murder him? Yeah, so... That's probably the last people that would murder him. Um, no. I...

Shit, I didn't write it in my notes. They were really cracking down on organized crime. Okay. And I think they had gone and just, like, shot somebody. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think it was going to be, like, a big cover-up thing, but I think he thought that they were just going to, you know, shoot him. Yeah.

But, you know, so he turns himself in he gets out a couple weeks later on 75 grand bail right so dutch was facing trial and the prosecution had a hell of a case u.s attorney thomas dewey had worked on it with a team of rock stars thomas dewey had a reputation for being do you know thomas dewey yeah you do i didn't know he's the guy that went against truman i know i know i eventually okay we'll get to it but anyway so he had this reputation for being extraordinarily hard-working intelligent and honest yeah he'd gone after bob moss's before and he was prepared to do it again he wanted to get dutch schultz so he developed the case against Dutch. But obviously, like, a ton of time passed

between when the case was prepared and when it was tried. So by the time the case was to be argued, he'd gone into private practice. So the prosecution's case was argued by John McEvers. But before they could even get started, Dutch's defense was like, uh, uh, uh, change of venue, please. See, our client has been a total shithead in New York City.

We can't be tried in New York City. We'll never get a fair shot. So this was smart. Absolutely, they needed a change of venue. Because first of all, around this time the public was starting to get really sick of organized crime like everyone was starting to hate it and if he was going to be tried in new york city he was going down for sure yeah so his defense asked for a change of venue and they got one his trial was held in syracuse new york so the prosecution

presented their case. They talked about bribes. They talked about illegal income he had coming in. They talked about how he hadn't paid shit in taxes. Yada, yada, yada. They dotted their I's. They crossed their T's. And then it was the defense's turn.

The defense took three hours. Oh, good. Are you ready? I am so ready. Here was the defense. The prosecution was absolutely right. What? Yeah, yeah.

Dutch's income was huge. In fact, it was actually a little bigger than they thought it was. In fact, it was actually a little bigger than they thought it was. And yeah, yeah, yeah, he didn't pay taxes on any of it, that's for sure. Okay. But, you see, that was not Dutch's fault. Okay. He didn't pay taxes because his lawyers said he didn't have to.

You see, he made his income illegally. Mm-hmm. And his attorneys said that you shouldn't file tax returns on money you earn illegally. Mm. So that's what his lawyers told him, and Dutch believed his lawyers. But obviously, obviously, hey, when the government came a-knockin', asking for money, Dutch had been all too happy to offer it. He tried to offer them $100,000. Mm-hmm. And they turned him down. He tried to make this thing right, but

the government was being a bunch of shitheads about the whole thing. Mm-hmm. Brandy. If there was a victim here... Oh, no! It was Dutch. Oh, no. Yes! Nope.

He was just the victim of bad legal advice. Was he? Yeah, yeah. Guess they hadn't heard about the Supreme Court decision. Bad legal advice. Was he? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Guess they hadn't heard about the Supreme Court decision. The jury deliberated for two days. But after those two days, they came out and they were like, hey, we are deadlocked. I believe it was seven to five in favor of conviction.

And it just wasn't happening. They couldn't reach a decision. Wow. The prosecution was pissed. Yeah. But they were like, you know what? Who cares? Let's do it again.

We have to get this guy. Yeah. I believe that Dewey had worked on this case, built this case up for like two years. I mean, it was a big deal. Once again, Dutch's lawyers were like, okay, we can do another trial, but please not in New York City. And a judge acquiesced. Dutch Schultz's second trial was held in Malone, New York.

Leave me Malone. in Malone, New York. Leave me Malone. Malone was a small town, a small rural town close to Canada. Probably still is. Yeah, I'm guessing it's still close to Canada.

They took it up on stilts. Now it's in California. Dutch and his defense team were thrilled. Immediately, Dutch hauled ass to Malone. And he was like, oh, hey, everybody. I'm just a nice little country boy.

I'm just like you. Oh, what's that? You want some money? Here, have some. Oh, my gosh. OK. This is just fucking disgusting. He held parties.

Everyone was invited. Yeah. Of course. Of course. Of course they were. He brought toys to sick children. He donated money to local businesses. He was given out money right and left. People loved him.

Why wouldn't you? Uh-huh. Uh-huh. By the time his second trial began in the summer of 1935, the people of Malone knew him and loved him. Of course they did. I believe at some point the prosecution caught wind of this and, like, he got locked up.

But, like, you've already spread the money all over Malone. So, again, prosecution's case was the same. The defense's argument was the same. The jury went into deliberation for two days again. And they found him... Not guilty. Of course not! They fucking love him now.

Everyone's best friend? No, not guilty. The judge was livid. Oh my gosh. He told the jury... And I'm not going to The judge was livid. Oh, my gosh. He told the jury, and I'm not going to read you the whole thing, because, I mean, the judge went off on this jury. But he said, Your verdict is such that it shakes the confidence of law-abiding people

in integrity and truth. It will be apparent to all who have followed the evidence in this case that you have reached a verdict based not on the evidence but on some other reason wow then he called them all shitheads the judge was right anyone who cared at all about truth and justice was livid about this verdict it was said that it wasn't safe for dutch to come back to new york city again because like the officials there were so mad they were like we will get you dutch schultz had just bought his way out of prison but his victory was kind of bittersweet because thanks to these two trials and the time he spent kind of in hiding, his business had suffered.

Yeah. Members of his gang were pissed off at him because he'd done this shitty thing. He had tried to cut their pay by being like, oh, all this legal trouble. It's just really draining me. So I need you guys to all take a pay cut. And they were like, but me, so I need you guys to all take a pay cut. And they were like, but dude, we work with you. We know you have a ton of money. We know you don't have to cut our pay.

So he tried to lie to these guys he couldn't lie to, so they were pissed. Meanwhile, the other mob bosses started trying to kind of move in on his territory because he'd been out of the power out of the picture so long he was still powerful but not nearly as powerful as he once was so he's on shaky ground and to make matters worse thomas dewey the man who'd built that tax evasion case against him was no longer in private practice. He'd just been appointed special prosecutor and he had it in for Dutch. Yeah. He loved the cut of his jib.

He knew about Dutch's bullshit with restaurants and he knew that Dutch had murdered someone for stealing money from him and he was going to get him. But? So Dutch was like, oh, crap. He was terrified. So he called an emergency meeting of all the mob bosses,

and this meeting was apparently called the commission. Anyway, so he's like, hey, everyone, it's me. I need your permission to murder Thomas Dewey. Oh, my gosh. And initially, a few of them were like, yeah, sure, whatever. Fine. But the smarter ones were like, hey, dumb. Are you crazy?

You can't do that. No. If one of us kills Thomas Dewey, if one of us orders a hit on Thomas Dewey, we are going to have the full power of the U.S. government breathing down all of our necks. This is your worst idea. Not since the diarrhea, or diarrhea, gonorrhea bandage. How come the diarrhea bandage is that worse or better? Better, don't you think?

I mean, you're not going to go blind from diarrhea. It'd be easier to get diarrhea bandages might be uh if he was a frugal mob boss wait you think he paid for it for gonorrhea soaked bandages i was gonna get that i'm sure they i mean he's gotta tip off some hospital dude and be like here are the bandages. Find some gonorrhea. He just has like a loose woman on his staff. I'm just thinking, yeah, they probably dabbled in prostitution, right?

Yeah. So somebody, plus all these guys had syphilis and all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Al Capone died of syphilis, practically. Practically. He died of a stroke. So they're like, no, no, no, no. Bad idea.

They took a vote and they unanimously agreed that no, Dutch Schultz could not have Thomas Dewey killed. Okay. Great. But word got out that Dutch had gone behind their backs, and he'd apparently hired an assassin to stake out Thomas Dewey's apartment building, but that assassin went and snitched on Dutch to the other mob bosses and was like,

hey, out of respect. So the mob bosses gathered together, this time without Dutch, and they talked it over and they agreed unanimously we got to take out dutch yeah oh yeah wow so i read something that was like this was a very big decision not since 1931 had the mob decided to do this and i was That was only four years prior. So at 1015 on October 23rd, 1935, Dutch was having dinner at the Palace Chop House in Newark, New Jersey, which was torn down in 2008. So don't even bother. I know. I know.

Is there a Marriott there now? Probably. Everything's a Marriott. He was there with his bodyguard, his right-hand man, and his accountant. And when he got up to go to the bathroom, two gunmen burst into the restaurant. They shot all four men, and the men were rushed to the hospital. So this is kind of a funny story. Hilarious.

No. Wait for it, damn it. I saw it a couple different ways but the version i like is that you know he's in this ambulance there's like an intern in the ambulance dutch knows he's gonna die and of course he's got like three grand just in his pocket yeah so he gives the three grand to the intern because he's like i'm gonna die it doesn't matter here enjoy and the guy's like wow thanks so much but then they take dutch in for surgery because he's like i'm gonna die it doesn't matter here enjoy and the guy's like wow thanks so much but then they take dutch in for surgery and he's looking pretty good and the intern was so terrified he gave the money back but dutch did die less than 24 hours after he'd

been shot okay i'm including this part just because everyone else seems to think think it's necessary his last words were kind of weird. To me, it's like, okay, he was out of his mind. But it's inspired a lot of different writing and stuff. So here are his last words. A boy has never wept, nor dashed a thousand kin. You can play jacks, and girls do that with a softball, and do tricks with it. Oh, oh, Dog Biscuit.

And when he is happy, he doesn't get snappy. What the fuck? I know. I'm like, what? Why are we looking into this? I don't know. I was just delusional. I know, right?

Now, what do you think he means by Dog Biscuit? Thomas Dewey would go on to become a major figure in american politics yes brandy knows he became governor of new york in 1944 he ran against franklin roosevelt for president lost lost uh loser but he got the republican Party's nomination again for the next presidential election. And in 1948, he ran against Harry Truman. Lost. Although the newspaper said Dewey defeats Truman. So I was reading this stuff, and I hadn't heard of Thomas Dewey. But then I remembered that headline.

So there's this famous picture. You guys have all seen it. It's Harry Truman on election night. He's holding up this newspaper that says Dewey defeats Truman. And he's got this shitty eating grin on his face. Because Dewey did not defeat Truman. There should have been another picture of Dewey holding the newspaper. And it's people like, oh my.

We're big fans of Truman around here. He's our local hero. Yeah, he's our local. Although, I gotta say, he was propelled into that seat by the mob yeah poor poor dewey like was it was anti-mob so now i'm kind of like geez but back to dutch schultz he's dead already. But there is one crazy thing about this story. Shortly before his death. Yeah, dog biscuits, softball, jacks.

What does it all mean? When he knew he was going to go to prison for something. He asked that an airtight, waterproof safe be made for him. He filled it with $7 million in cash and bonds. Then he and his bodyguard drove somewhere in upstate New York, and they hid it somewhere. Then they were both murdered. Oh my gosh. To this day.

No one's ever found it? No. People still search for this thing? Because it's somewhere. Oh my gosh. But it has not been found. And that's the story of Bob Moss Dutch Schultz. I never heard of him.

I hadn't either. I thought it was so fascinating. It was excellent. I loved it. This was good. This was really either. I thought it was so fascinating. It was excellent. I loved it. This was good. This was really fun. Oh, yeah, this was fun. Thank you to those who voted and picked Bob Mosses over Art Heist.

I gotta say, I was really disappointed that Art Heist lost. And you were like, hehehehe. Ladies, are you ready for some questions? Ooh, are we? Where are these coming from? My God. They're coming from the LGTC Podcast Discord server. How do you get in the Discord, Kristen?

For just $5 a month, you can join at the Appellate Court level. That gets you into the Discord, and it gets you bonus episodes. $7 level, more stuff. Excellent. All right, there you go. All right, Fiery One, our local dairy boy. episodes seven dollar level more stuff excellent all right there you go all right fiery one our local uh dairy boy wants to know what is everyone's favorite dairy accessory coffee creamer dairy accessory i like it when a cow wears that necklace from the movie Titanic. The heart of the ocean?

My favorite dairy accessory? What about cheese? Is that a dairy accessory? Because I love cheese. I'm a big cheese fan. What about those little wax cheese things? What are those called? Oh, baby bells?

Baby bells. Is that a dairy accessory? Yeah, that's not my favorite. You could wear it as an earring. You could wear it as a necklace. Yeah, a pendant. If my mom were here right now, she'd be like, well, that's roughly the size of some of her earrings.

What? My mom always makes fun of me for wearing huge earrings. I'm going coffee creamer. Yeah, I'm going to do cheese Cheese? Okay I feel like we should let everybody know that Yesterday I did a whole day of just plant based diet Didn't go well did it? My carbon emissions were really

Climate change is real It is Ca caused by Kristen. The cows are a concern and I'm a concern. Woke me up this morning, FYI. Did you really wake up this morning? Yes. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Jen Bett wants to know, would you ever consider having live show tours yeah i think that'd be a blast kristin would shit her pants and then she'd have fun you think so i think probably yeah once once we got going yeah it would be fine but like the lead up to it, I'd be like, I'd be so nervous. So nervous. Ooh. What? I feel like I said her name wrong last time too.

Marie Sick. Anyway, she wants to know, not sure if you've answered this before. I need to know what your favorite kansas city barbecue joint is joe's casey yeah joe's it's the best joe's she says if it isn't gates i'll be upset it's not sorry to upset you it's not gates uh it's joe's i do really like gates yeah gates is good i mean there's there's not really a barbecue joint that I don't like, but like the Z-Man sandwich at Joe's KC.

I know. That's right. We disagree about this. Damn it. Lady in Blonde wants to know, is anyone from Brandy's family going to guest star on the podcast? Ooh. Yeah, we've talked about it. We have talked about it.

Yeah. But I've rejected it every time maybe your sister yeah we've talked about doing like a sister theme and having yeah you guys let us know i haven't even talked about this with kyla kyla if you're interested let me know kyla and casey we talked about having our sisters on and doing like a sister theme i think it'd be super fun i think it'd be fun too on and doing like a sister theme i think it'd be super fun i think it'd be fun too anna wants to know if the ladies are having a girls only night what's going down oh if we're having a girls only night okay i mean same thing that always happens yeah we eat yeah we drink

we talk we have something on tv yeah yeah we cry at some point probably but that happens usually like about how much we love each other yes i try to hurt brandy's feelings long-term friends oh my god i love you so much i love you too hey you know much I love you too hey you know what I love about our podcast I'm gonna tell on you

what so we just did a weekend trip with Brandy and David and on our way back to the house when it was just me and you what did you say I said boy are my arms tired. What did you say about Brandy?

I said Brandy's one of my best friends. Yes. Oh, you're one of my best friends too, Norm. So there you go. You can act like, oh, it's just them being dorks. But you're a dork too, dammit. All right. I feel like Brandy's my long lost twin. Yeah.

She is. She is is it's crazy my twin was in kansas the whole time the whole time the whole time this is being asked by several people okay what is your favorite thanksgiving dish since it is november okay i gotta say i love the sides any sides sides absolutely i don't even need the turkey oh i love stuffing mashed potatoes oh yes but i don't like gravy so you know what i eat my mashed potatoes what corn it's a very midwest thing to mix corn in your mashed potatoes that's not a midwest thing yes it is that's a brandy thing that's no that's a midwest thing that's a cafeteria lady got sloppy and like, you know, the corn spilled. A little dollop of marshmallow in that mashed potato.

Ooh. What? Midwest classic. He's making fun of Midwest dishes. There's marshmallow in everything. You stop it. In Jell-O. It is kind of.

What did we talk about the other day that you didn't think was real? Oh, the cottage cheese jello salad? Yeah. Okay, should we tell the people what we're thinking? One of the things we're thinking about doing for the Supreme Court as a perk? Yeah. Okay, I think this could be really funny. So there are a lot of Midwest dishes that are just like, they'll stop your heart.

And you hear the name of them and you're like, how is that a thing? But they're pretty damn good so we're talking about doing videos cooking videos where we like bring midwest classics to you you can make sausage brunch i will make sausage brunch we could do the so okay this is one of my favorite things my mom used to make when i was a kid oh no, no. And it's cottage cheese jello salad. It's literally cottage cheese, jello, Cool Whip, and pineapple.

And it's so fucking good. It sounds terrible. It sounds terrible. It's actually delicious. Kelly has a good question. Okay, Kelly. Oh, and pumpkin pie. Back to answer the...

Pecan pie for me. Pumpkin pie. Oh, you know what? I love a good green bean casserole. No, that's not... Okay. What do you mean no? No.

I mean no. I'm answering for myself. I mean no. I've never tried it because I can't get past the smell of it. It smells like feet. It's that. So do all good cheeses. Yeah.

It smells like feet. Kelly has a very important question. All right, do it. This could make or break the podcast. Oh, okay. When it comes to toilet paper. Oh, Brandy has opinions. Do you crumple it or fold it?

Crumple. Fold. Oh, really? You crumple it? Yeah. You're wasting toilet paper. What if I only crumple like one square? Really?

Am I wasting? Yeah. Yeah. You're losing surface area? Really? Am I wasting? Yeah. Yeah. Because if you fold. You're losing surface area. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's true. I fold too. Yeah. Fold. You gotta fold. Well, okay.

I'm ashamed. I've never been more shamed. Well, and with my plant-based meals, I really need to pick a new method here. Should we do one more and call it time to do some? Oh, actually, this is a good segue into some of the stuff you guys are working on. Tiffanized. I know you often know exactly where some of your local cases happened, and you sometimes look up addresses on Google Earth,

but have you ever physically gone to a place where one of your cases happened? Or are there any you'd like to go to? Oh, that oh that's such a good question and the answer is yes we just did it this weekend yeah it was so fun it was so fun we went to ha ha tonka so should we tell them yeah let's tell them okay so the new perk that we're going to be doing for the Supreme Court is that once a month, you're going to get a fun, short video. And it's either going to be like what Kristen mentioned, where we do like a cooking segment or something like that, or we're going to do something like on-site. And so we recorded a little on-site video at Ha Ha Tonka.

It was so much fun. We had a great time. Oh, it was a blast. And if you guys don't remember, Ha Ha Tonka is the case that Brandy covered, and it's the ruins of this old mansion. It's like a three-and-a-half-hour drive from us or something. It was really, really cool.

So we've got a ton of pictures, a ton of video. I mean, it was a blast. And Norman's going to edit it for us. It was very pretty. It was. It was awesome. And so Norman's going to edit it for us. It was very pretty. It was. It was awesome. And so all the leaves were these beautiful colors. It overlooked this beautiful body of water.

And there was birds flying around everywhere. It was very cool. It was amazing. It was a beautiful day, too. Yeah. It was awesome. All right. Should we do Supreme Court inductions?

Yes. Thank you, everyone, for your questions. Yeah. Hello, everybody. Welcome to our Supreme Court inductions? Yes. Thank you, everyone, for your questions. Yeah. Hello, everybody. Welcome to our Supreme Court inductions. I hope you're all in a different room from where you were listening to the other part of the podcast. That's right. If you're not, then please get up and move to a different room now.

We'll wait. Thank you so much. This week, we're still doing our names and favorite movie snacks. Catherine Hobby. Tropical Swedish Fish. I didn't even know that existed. Mind blown. Norm, you know about this?

Yes. Are they better than regular? No, I've never had them. They're kind of hard to find around here. I've never seen them. Sean Sipple. Nachos, but not with shredded cheese. I've never seen them. Sean Sipple. Nachos, but not with shredded cheese.

I hear you, Sean. Michaela. Crispy M&M's and popcorn. Stormy Peel. Raisinets and a small popcorn. Lizzie Caruso. No relation to Norm. Popcorn with covered, nope,

popcorn with chocolate covered almonds mixed in. Ooh, that sounds good. Nikki Warren. Reese's Pieces. Celeste Torrance. Popcorn, no butter, and a Diet Coke the size of a toddler. Heather Henry. Large popcorn with enough butter to clog my arteries and a large icy with all of the flavors mixed. Mary Catherine. Goobers. It's chocolate covered peanuts and it's real. Just spat. Ashley Mergens.

Peanut butter M&Ms. Oh yeah. Welcome to the Supreme Court. Oh my gosh, guys. Thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it so much. If you're looking for other ways... If you're looking for other ways to support us,

please find us on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, YouTube, of course, Patreon. Once you've found us all of those places, please head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave course, Patreon. Once you've found us all of those places, please head on over to Apple Podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us a review. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then also make sure you join us next week

when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the book,

The Last Testament of Lucky Luciano, The Mafia Story in His Own Words by Martin Ghosh and Richard Hammer, And I got my info from the crime lair. From the crime library, famoustrials.com, FBI gov and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. but please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.