Let's Go To Court! - 96: Taylor Swift’s Assault Trial & Ali Kemp

Episode Date: November 20, 2019

Taylor Swift was doing her thing. Before her concert started, she stood backstage, greeting fans and posing for photos. It all seemed pretty normal. Then, a Denver morning radio DJ named David Mueller approached her with his then-girlfriend, Shannon Melcher. Taylor chatted with Shannon. But when it was time to take the photo, Taylor says that something shocking happened. David reached up the back of her dress and grabbed her bare ass. Then Brandi tells us about the senseless, horrifying murder of Ali Kemp. Ali was a 19-year-old college student working at an upscale neighborhood pool one summer when she was brutally murdered. Her body was discovered in the pool house, hours after she’d been attacked. But who could have done such a thing? Ali didn’t have any known enemies. For a while, it seemed like the case might go cold. But Ali’s dad, Roger Kemp, fought tirelessly to bring his daughter’s killer to justice. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Ex-DJ says $1 payment to Taylor Swift sent by mail last week,” Associated Press “DJ who lost Taylor Swift groping case has a new job,” by Lisa Respers France, CNN “Taylor Swift was groped by radio host, jury finds,” by Donna Bryson, New York Times “Judge drops complaint aimed at Taylor Swift in groping case brought by DJ,”  by Donna Bryson, New York Times “Taylor Swift won her day in court. Here’s what you need to know,” by Constance Grady, Vox “A timeline of events leading up to Taylor Swift groping trial,” by Sabrina Finkelstein, Billboard “Taylor Swift Testifies: ‘He grabbed my ass underneath my skirt,’” by Joyce Chen, Rolling Stone “Taylor Swift take the stand in former radio DJ groping trial,” ABC News on YouTube “The Silence Breakers,” by Stephanie Zacharek, Eliana Dockterman and Haley Sweetland Edwards, Time Magazine “Taylor Swift assault trial kicks off with changing stories and hurt feelings,” by Hilary Weaver, Vanity Fair In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Ali Kemp” episode Stolen Voices, Buried Secrets “State v. Appleby” courtlistener.com “Ali Kemp – 249” episode Generation Why podcast “Suspect charged in 2002 slaying of K-State student” by Matt Sedensky, Lawrence Journal World “Murderer gets life sentence for killing at pool” by The Associated Press, Lawrence Journal World “JoCo judge will decide if man convicted in brutal 2002 murder gets new sentence” by Katie Bernard, The Kansas City Star “Judge denies request by Ali Kemp’s killer to have his Hard 50 sentence thrown out” by Karra Small, Fox4KC

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode, I'll talk about Taylor Swift's sexual assault trial. And I'll be talking about one father's search for his daughter's killer.

Ooh! Ooh! What are you doing? Ooh! Hmm. I think I know what you're doing. You do? You said it was local, right? It is local.

What do you think it is? We can bleep it. Okay. Is it that local dirtbag who killed the two women? Although he hasn't really gone to trial yet, so that'd be cheating. Nope. Nope. It's not Kyler Ust.

Nope. Not him. Okay. It is local, though. All right. All right. Well, I'll keep my pants on. Keep your pants on.

Please stop sexually harassing me, Kristen. You should see what she's wearing, guys. You've been sexually harassing me since lunch. It's true. god i really i was about to say something then i realized i sounded like a gross guy so i was about to say you looked so pretty which is what they all say they're like it was a compliment okay i saw someone tweet the other day i thought this was so funny's not the right word. It was just so true.

It was like, before the Me Too movement, dude, you look pretty. After the Me Too movement, dude, you look pretty. Although I guess I can't say that now because of the Me Too movement. You know, the whole thing of like, nothing has changed for these dirtbags. And I guess I'm a dirt bag. You're a dirt bag. I'm sorry. I'm just a teenage dirt bag, baby.

Brandy looks pretty. I'll keep it to myself. You also look beautiful, Kristen. Thanks. About two hours later. All right. Do you know anything about what I know? Nothing about what you're hours later. All right. Do you know anything about what I know? Nothing about what you're talking about.

All right. Enlighten me. I know you educate me. Oh, hey, I'm about to quote Taylor Swift. You're stepping all over it. I knew you were trouble when you walked in, Brandy. Excellent. It's June 2nd, 2013.

Hey, did you hit record? Oh, shit. Did I? Oh, God. Oh, 2013. Hey, did you hit record? Oh, shit. Did I? Oh, God. Oh, please. Yes, I did. Excellent. Done.

Oh, God. Oh, please. We can't lose those brilliant first three minutes. No. Can't get those back. We're backstage at a Taylor Swift concert in Denver, Colorado. Taylor's doing a meet and greet with her fans. There's a line of people.

They're coming up if you had a time to say hi and get pictures with her. David Mueller and his girlfriend, Shannon Melcher, were both in line. And they both worked for KYGO, which is like a big country music station in Denver. David is a more... I thought you were going to say they worked for KY jelly don't you wish you perv no ky geo you could see my confusion though when you were like they both worked for ky i'm sorry to disappoint you they came in lubed up ready to go so david's a morning dj i'm not sure what Shannon did, but she worked for the radio station, too. At any rate, they go up to Taylor, exchange some pleasantries, and then it's time to pose at the time. This random old DJ whom she'd never met before reached up the back of her dress and grabbed her bare ass.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Do you not know any of this? I don't know anything about this. This it is nuts. OK, so he grabbed her bare ass. She tried to scoot away, you know, scooting toward his girlfriend. But his hand didn't move.

It was unmistakable. His hand was up her dress and on her ass. Oh, my gosh. Taylor was shocked. And then, you know, the moment was over. David and Shannon walked off. Taylor, I mean, was understandably horrified. Yeah.

Wasn't sure what to do. There was still this line of fans waiting to meet her so she just opted to keep the meet and greet going right um and when she could kind of break free from it she went to her mom andrea and told her what had just happened andrea was super pissed she wanted to do something so she spoke with a a couple people on Taylor's management team about what happened. From there, the Taylor team moved quickly. Before the concert started, security spotted David. They went up to him. They were like, hey, we know what you did. Get the hell out of here. Shannon was also kicked out, which I don't think is fair, but you know, whatever. The next day, Taylor Swift's radio promotions director, Frank Bell, was like, what happened last night was not OK.

That was really gross. So he called KY Jelly, a.k.a. KYGO, and he spoke to a vice president over there. And he was like, hey, just so you know, I work for Taylor Swift. And she says your morning DJ assaulted her in the meet and greet last night. Here's what she says happened. And oh, by the way, we have a picture of it. Okay, so I've been debating where in this I should, because the photograph was found by TMZ.

It's available online. It does not, I mean, it's not taken from the back. So it doesn't show for sure. But go ahead and Google Taylor Swift swift um maybe lawsuit oh yeah so have you clicked on the full image yeah um i think it's really bad yeah so you can see taylor is like sandwiched right next to shannon and david has like this shit eating grin yeah and some newspapers are like his hand is positioned below her waist i mean it's on her ass it's on her ass yeah yeah it's very clearly on her ass i think the only thing you can't tell clearly from the picture is that it's under her yeah yeah dress can't tell that, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Yeah, it's a really bad photo. Yeah. So this VP hears this story. He's like, yikes. At the time, David had been working there for like six months. He was on a two-year contract for $150,000 a year. Wow. I know. It was more than I thought he'd be making, too. I know radio DJs150,000 a year. Wow. I know.

It was more than I thought he'd be making, too. I know radio DJs made that kind of money. Maybe the morning shows. The morning shows are kind of the big ones. Afternoon shows, though, are big ones, too, because that's your drive home. It sure is. But the morning show is your drive into work. You know, the drive at 5, Kristen.

I do know. So this VP's like, okay, could you send me the photo? And Frank was like, yeah, sure. Yeah. So the radio station got the photo. And of course, like I said, it's a photo taken from the front. It doesn't definitively show that David groped her, but it looks really bad. Yeah. So the VP met with some of the others of the station's other management. They talked it over, talked to David. And of course, David denied touching Taylor inappropriately. But they conducted their investigation and the station's management said that David's story about what happened at that meet and greet kept changing. It seemed fishy.

Ultimately, they decided they didn't want to keep him around. Yeah. Apparently, they thought about firing him a few times before this again he'd only been there six months like how bad an employee are you um and this was the last straw they let him go saying he'd violated the morality clause of his contract so that was that uh morning dj allegedly groped taylor and lost his job. End of story. No. No.

This is not. Let's go to. Go to groping. Two years passed. It was 2015. David felt that he had been wronged. What? The look on your face.

He hadn't grabbed Taylor Swift inappropriately, and yet he'd lost his job. So he looked himself in the mirror and he said, Let's go to court. He did not. Yeah, he did. Two years after the fact. What?

He sued Taylor Swift for $3 did. Oh. Two years after the fact. What? He sued Taylor Swift for $3 million. Okay. He claimed that she'd made a false accusation that cost him his employment and had done irreparable harm to his reputation. Okay. Her accusation, Brandy, made no sense. You see, over the course of his career, he'd met hundreds of celebrities, and none of them had ever accused him of inappropriate touching.

Okay. Which I think is like the lamest. That is. That's a terrible excuse. Tons of creeps haven't had like public shit come out about them. Plus, who on earth would be dumb enough to do something like this? You. Who?

Oh, no, no, no, no. Who would sexually assault a famous person in public with tons of people around and a camera aimed right at them? Only an idiot. And David Mueller is not an idiot. I don't like the way you're looking at them. Only an idiot. And David Mueller is not an idiot. I don't like the way you're looking at me. You know, the really sad thing is that this whole thing

was a big misunderstanding. It was a case of mistaken identity. What? Yes, yes. Is this some other douchebag? You just don't understand. It was a case of mistaken identity. What? Yes. This is some other douchebag? You just don't understand. You sound like the Taylor team right now.

See, someone had groped Taylor Swift that night. And that person had worked for the local country radio station. Don't scrunch your eyebrows like that. But the person was not David. It was David's co-worker, a guy named Craig. Craig with no last name. It looks a lot like David. Yeah, so this lawsuit blames it on Craig, gives no last name for Craig. Mystery Craig. Mystery Craig. We all have one in our lives. That night, the evil Craig with no last name for Craig. Mystery Craig. Mystery Craig. We all have one in our lives. That night, the evil Craig, with no last name, came up to David and demonstrated how he'd gone through the meet and greet.

And he bragged about how he'd put his hands on Taylor Swift's bottom. So that was David's lawsuit. Taylor Swift had made a terrible false accusation against him and um you know two years after the fact he was just now coming forward to say that some dirt bag named craig was the guy who'd done it all along so let's make this right taylor swift was not impressed yeah she was like wow okay i know who did this. I have a photo. Yeah. The moment it fucking happened. How's he going to contest this photo? I mean, this case is infuriating. It was definitely David Mueller. Unless it was Craig. Yeah. Mystery Craig. Do we have a photo of him? Probably not. Do we have a photo of him? Probably not. Looking back, she said, right as the moment came for us to pose for the photo, he took his hand and put it up my dress and grabbed onto my ass cheek.

And no matter how much I scooted over, it was still there. It was completely intentional. I've never been so sure of anything in my life. Wow. Taylor was pissed off. So said okay dirtbag i see your lawsuit and i raise you a countersuit yes for assault and battery because yet you're not the only one who can go to court over this she sued him for one dollar oh she said she didn't really need more money. She was countersuing because she felt like it was the right thing to do.

She said she hoped her lawsuit would serve as an example to other women who may resist publicly reliving similar outrageous and humiliating acts. Wow. Yeah. A few months later, in 2016, David added a slander claim against Taylor Swift. Okay. He's great. He's a great guy. Everybody is a big fan.

I don't care for David at all. Already? I'm only four pages into the script. Months went by. David did his deposition. And in that deposition, he said that he had audio recordings from his termination. That was huge. His case was about wrongful termination.

Having those recordings could be potentially very helpful and very damning to the other side. Yeah. Except he did have to admit that he had edited those tapes down a bit at his discretion. Okay, great. And if anyone wanted to hear the full files, well, that couldn't happen. Because, you see, he'd had a little Butterfingers moment by his computers. He'd oops-ly, oops, he spilled his coffee on his laptop, Brandy. So just take his word for it. All right, Brandy, i see how you're looking at

me and it's like the way the judge looked at him um the judge was not super understanding probably not a coffee drinker so the judge sanctioned just david for destroying evidence yeah yeah yes yeah he's full of shit so these two lawsuits kept moving forward and, you know, they were kind of paired together. Yeah. Finally, in August of 2017, the civil trial began before a jury of six women and two men. Only a jury of eight? Yeah. Civil trial.

I didn't know only eight people sat on a civil trial. Are you learning a lot from me today? I'm learning so much. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's like one of us went to law school. For a semester. Taylor's attorney, Douglas Baldridge, laid out the accusation against David Mueller.

He'd groped Taylor Swift. He'd destroyed evidence. And he was constantly changing his story. Yeah. It took him two fucking years to come forward with this story about how it was really craig who'd groped taylor according to douglas david at one point i guess during a deposition had identified craig as eddie haskell his former boss so okay side note i watched some like good morning america um clips from like people standing outside the courtroom and walking in.

And Eddie Haskell was walking in and they were like, hey, hey, how do you feel? You know, I understand that he at one point accused you of doing this. And he was like, I'm pissed about that. I didn't do that. Isn't Eddie Haskell the name of the bad kid in Leave it to Beaver? Oh, my God, Brandy. My dad will be so happy you mentioned it i knew the connection but i was like i'm not gonna say it because who's gonna know it's like a tv show

from the 50s yeah but i knew my dad would be like oh you know blah blah blah that's eddie haskell leave it to beaver can't believe you didn't mention it okay don't worry dp i got it in there yeah when david mueller took the stand and it was time for douglas to cross-examine him douglas said hey at one point you tried to pin this whole thing on your old boss and david was like uh no no never uh that wasn't me that was craig every bad thing i've ever done is really Craig. David's case was about how Taylor and her team had pressured the radio station to fire him and it was so unfair. But he did have to admit that numerous supervisors at his work had talked about letting him go before this incident occurred. What the fuck was he doing in the six months that he worked there?

I don't know. I don't know how bad you have to be at your job to lose it that fast. And yeah, yeah, he had been fired from a radio job in Minneapolis, and he'd also been fired from another radio job in Kansas City. So Taylor's lawyer was like, hey, man, what station was he with in Kansas City? Which one do you think? Q104.

Okay, you're thinking country. Yeah. And I get that. But let me, so most DJs don't stick within. Oh, genres. So just think of this guy. 98.9 The Rock. Oh, no. Okay, I i all right no what was that

i'll give you one more guess come on no i don't want to guess again 96.5 really yeah yeah this guy was at 96.5 he was fired from 96.5 i couldn't figure out what he did there i tried to do that a little bit this morning and i'm sorry for people who aren't local like fine that's my radio station i know it's it's the radio station that we listen to yeah um but they have a few dirt bags on there and yeah i'm surprised they fired him frankly so um taylor's lawyer was like hey man isn't it possible that you've had trouble finding a job because you kind of suck? I mean, he didn't say that, but, you know, that was the vibe. Don't you think being fired in Kansas City hurt your career?

Yeah. And David said, I can't imagine it didn't. So, you know, maybe he wasn't the greatest employee, but he for sure didn't grope Taylor Swift. For sure, Brandy. For sure. That never happened. It was Craig. In court, they busted out the photograph, which, I mean, if I was his attorney, I don't think I'd want to go near it.

Yeah. And David said, it doesn't look great, but it was nothing inappropriate. I mean, I may have touched her body when I was trying to jump into the photo. I mean, jostled her rib cage. His hand's nowhere near her rib cage. What a weird... Jostled her rib cage. He said, my hand came into contact with part of her body.

I felt what appeared to be a rib cage or rib and it went behind her and her hand or arm went behind my arm. Okay. Let me wrap this up for you. He didn't do it. Uh-huh. And if he did do it, it was a total accident. Yeah. So everybody shut up. Yeah. So Taylor's legal team had a theory, and I think this is weird and kind of interesting, that he had groped her in part as a power move because his feelings had been hurt. He was this local DJ. He'd showed up at the Taylor Swift concert with his girlfriend, and he expected to be treated like a VIP. But he wasn't.

He'd had to stand in line with all the unwashed masses. And when he finally got a chance to talk to Taylor, she wasn't very warm and cuddly. Instead, she bonded with David's now former girlfriend, Shannon. I can't imagine why they broke up. Yeah, the nerve. So when David was on the stand, Taylor's attorney was like, hey, how'd you feel about Taylor that day? What'd you think? And David said, when she didn't invite me over to pose for the photograph with her, I considered her cold and standoffish. She didn't acknowledge me. I'm so grossed out by this.

Yeah. I think they're on to something with this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Later, Taylor's mom took the stand she talked about the moment that taylor told her what had happened she said that she wanted to vomit and cry at the same time and then in a dramatic courtroom moment that i've only seen happen in movies and apparently in this trial her mom said he sexually assaulted her and she pointed right at david and she goes right there that guy

i heard it from my daughter's mouth i know that it happened oh yeah go andrea then taylor swift took the stand and she was amazing she was confident direct sassy as hell not here to take shit from anybody here are some highlights hold on to your pants oh buckle up i haven't told you to buckle up in a while oh that was not enthusiastic you're gonna fall right out of your seat i did that so good david's lawyer was gabriel mcfar. And at one point he asked her, Hey, shouldn't you be more critical of your bodyguard? No, how is it my bodyguard's fault? And Taylor said,

I'm critical of your client sticking his hand under my skirt and grabbing my ass. Yeah. At another point, Gabriel was like, How did you react when you learned that David had been fired? He lost his job. And she said, I'm not going to allow you or your client to make me feel in any way that this is my fault because it isn't. No. I am being blamed for the unfortunate events of his life that are a product of his decisions and not mine.

Oh, snap. events of his life that are a product of his decisions and not mine oh snap at another point gabriel was like hey if you were so upset about this and if you were so shocked that he groped you why didn't you end the meet and greet you could have ended it and she said and your client could have taken a normal photo with me so there was a lot of talk at this at trial and i didn't really write much down but basically there was worry that people wouldn't understand that there's not a right or wrong way to react after something horrible happens to you, which I wish people would like understand that there's more than one way to react. But I feel like this is a really common way to do it of being kind of shocked.

Yes. And just kind of processing it. Yeah. Like going into like robot mode, do what you have to do. And then later you tell someone. I think that's. Yes, I think that's totally normal.

Perfectly normal. Yes. Then they took out the infamous photo and Gabriel said, okay, if this is a picture of the assault, then why isn't your, the front of your skirt wrinkled or lifted? And she said,

because my ass is located at the back of my body. That's so good. Finally, she said, Gabe, this is a photo of him with his hand up my skirt, with his hand on my ass. You can ask me a million questions i'm never gonna say anything different i never have said anything different yeah i i love it i love it love it she got um a lot of praise for this testimony and some of the media outlets were a little you know uptight i listened to a few that were like she repeatedly used a three-letter word and it took me a while to really ask yeah that's it but it took me a while to realize okay what's

the three-letter word um but anyway the theory was that you just want to be direct and a little shocking because that's what yeah that's what it was yeah i don't know if that was a strategy or what but no i think it's perfect though yeah if it was a strategy because i think a lot of people would be tempted in a formal setting to say backside and i think that totally cleanses it yeah it does but when you say he reached up my dress and grabbed a handful of my ass well yeah paint a picture the media went wild over Taylor's testimony. A writer for GQ said,

She dropped the mic so hard it fell through the fucking floor. Only question is, where can we get another mic? This one has been annihilated. Oh my gosh. So now we're four days into the trial and the judge hits pause. So let's back up a second. David's lawsuit against Taylor hadn't just named Taylor. He'd also claimed that Taylor's mom, Andrea, and her radio promotions manager, Frank Bell,

had like all worked together in concert to put pressure on the station to fire him using this false accusation. So Judge William Martinez was like, hey, everybody, hold the phone. He sent the jury home for the day. At some point, I believe it was during this portion where the jury was out, he talked to David's lawyer in court, and he said, hey, you're saying that Taylor Swift made up this story about your client and that it caused him harm and that she, like, knowingly did it, but you haven't presented any evidence to show that she

knowingly made this story up so david's lawyer gabriel mcfarland was like okay my client didn't grope taylor swift but yeah if you're asking for proof that she made up these charges yeah i don't have it he said to be candid I don't think there is evidence that she didn't believe Mr. Mueller inappropriately touched her. So the judge said, all right, with none of that evidence present, I'm ruling that you have to drop Taylor Swift from that lawsuit. Yeah. You haven't supplied sufficient evidence to show that Taylor Swift acted improperly when she reported an assault that she believed happened. So that portion of this case is just done. Yeah. To be clear, I think it's obvious, but I'll do the little caveat. The judge was not saying, hey, he definitely

groped her. He was just saying that a jury couldn't make a decision on whether she knowingly brought a false charge based on this lack of evidence. So after that, Taylor's team was all hugging, smiling, having a good time. The judge said that the suit would continue against the other two defendants. And of course, the argument that Taylor Swift's lawyer made was that her mom and employee hadn't like interfered to get this guy fired. They just reported the assault. Yeah. They hadn't even reported it to the police. It was just to the guy's employer. They told the story. They supplied the photograph. What happened next was the radio station's decision. In closing arguments, Taylor's lawyer, Douglas Baldridge, reiterated their side and said that Taylor was only seeking one dollar in compensation because she didn't want to bankrupt

David. Yeah. I think that's pretty amazing. It is amazing. She could have annihilated this guy. All she wanted to do was send a message. She saw this lawsuit as more symbolic than anything. She wanted to show women that they could report an assault without the fear of being sued by their attacker. Then Douglas went on the attack. He told the jury that David was a story-changing, evidence-destroying aggressor. He begged them not to reward the guy with a payday. But David's lawyer got up and said that this was all wrong. He showed the jury the picture where the alleged groping occurred, which I think is like the dumbest thing.

Why is he showing them that? It's a bad picture. I mean, when I saw the picture, I was like, which I think is like the dumbest thing. It's such a bad... Why is he showing them that? It's a bad picture. I mean, when I saw the picture, I was like, oh boy, it happened. Did Taylor Swift really look like she was being groped in that moment? Yes. Afterward, did she act like

she'd been groped? Not one bit. She was smiling in the photo. Because she's at her job yeah exactly afterwards she continued the meet and greet she didn't freak out or cry or do any of the things that you're supposed to do the jury went into deliberation and ultimately they found in favor of taylor swift david m Mueller was guilty of assault and battery, and he was ordered to pay her $1.

Excellent. The jury also found that Taylor's mom and her manager had not interfered with David's employment contract, so he could go to hell. Yeah. That year, Time magazine gave their annual Person of the Year award to a lot of the women who'd broken silence about sexual assault,

and one of them was Taylor Swift. In an interview, they asked her how it felt to testify. And here's what she said. This is kind of long, but I think it's really good. When I testified, I had already been in court all week and had to watch this man's attorney bully, badger and harass my team, including my, over inane details and ridiculous minutiae, accusing them and me of lying. My mom was so upset after her cross-examination, she was physically too ill to come to court the day I was on the stand. I was angry. In that moment, I decided to forego any courtroom formalities and just answer the questions the way it happened. This man hadn't considered any formalities and just answer the questions the way it happened.

This man hadn't considered any formalities when he assaulted me, and his lawyer didn't hold back on my mom. Why should I be polite? I'm told it was the most amount of times the word ass has ever been said in Colorado federal court. That's awesome. In that interview, she also revealed that David still hadn't paid her that dollar. Wow. Mm-hmm.

So after that interview came out, obviously he got a lot of heat. Uh-huh. So David sent her the payment in the form of a Sacagawea coin. He told the Associated Press that he did that is a final jab at her how why is that a jab okay so i had the same question yeah one story just left it at that i'm like i don't get it like i know sometimes it's annoying to use like a coin when you want a bill but yeah so here's what he said i mean if this is all about women's rights it's a little poke at them a little bit i mean they've made this into a publicity stunt and this is my life so sacca juwia was a woman so yeah i

get yeah okay in 2018 david mueller got a new job he was hired by a radio station in Greenwood, Mississippi to join their morning show, Jackson and John Bob. John Bob? That's terrible. As soon as the hiring was announced, a lot of people were upset, as you might imagine. Yeah. And they felt like David didn't deserve to work in radio anymore. Yeah. But his new boss came to his defense. This is the most tone death interview. He said that he thought David was innocent and sincere. Here's a quote. I've been getting calls and emails from people saying my uncle molested me when I was 14 or my boyfriend beat me severely. I understand that and I'm sorry for those people that had to go through those ordeals but what does that have to do with me and what does that have to do with david mueller

what idiot oh my gosh yeah wow you can't understand yeah how people get upset about sexual assault yeah oh um in conclusion i'm sorry it's another one where i have like no ending prepared uh that's the story of taylor swift taking a douchebag to court oh that was terrible it was terrible but i thought she did such an amazing job. She did so good. But have you ever heard of a bigger douchebag? No. I gotta look him up. I don't remember him working at the Buzz at all. I didn't know anything about that Taylor Swift case.

I was shocked that you didn't know it. I don't think I've ever heard anything about it. I remember following it when it happened. I was blown away by it. Gosh. I'm usually so up on my celebrities. I know. Well, you're not a big Taylor fan.

She's all right. Exactly. I don't think she deserved to be sexually assaulted. No, that's not what I'm saying. All right. Should we talk about a murder? A murder? I am willing to bet you've never heard of this really well you know what i am willing to agree because you know all the dark creepy shit

and i really you know i've got my limits happened in 2002 oh really yeah So we were in high school. Okay. Go on. Go on. Okay, we'll just jump right in. I will say I got a lot of this information from two really good sources. One was a TV show, and now I have to look up the name of it. Hold on. Oh, shit. Well, it's a stupid name.

I'm sorry, whoever works on this TV show. It was called Stolen Voices, Buried Secrets. Oh, God. Discovery ID. Yeah, you just know. And then the other was from a podcast, Generation Y. Oh, OK. Which is another local Kansas City podcast. And they had a really good episode on this case. All right in. It's June 18th, 2012. Nope. It's June 18th, 2002. It's June 18th, 2012. No, go back in time 10 years to June 18th, 2002. Well, it seems like there's an easier way to do this. We're in Leawood, Kansas. Oh, okay.

So this is one of the most upscale areas of Johnson County. You know, my bubble. Allie Kemp was a 19-year-old college student, home for the summer after her first year at Kansas State University. And on this particular day, Allie was working at her neighborhood pool, located near the intersection of 123rd and Stateline. Oh, I know this one. You do know this one? Yes. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I had a lot of trouble finding the exact location. And so I went to my sources, my dad, text my dad. And he was like, Oh, yeah, it's right off 123rd and

state. Yeah, somewhere between 100 and on like somewhere right off of 123rd between state line and Mission Road. There's really nice neighborhoods there. My dad was a bricklayer when I was a baby. And he used to he laid a bunch of brick at a bunch of the houses. Very, very nice area. Anyway, she's just like working at her community pool. It's like an overcast day. The pool's not super busy. And somewhere just before three o'clock, she texts. I'm sorry.

She calls her best friend, Laurel. And she says something like, come up here and hang out with me. And Laurel's like, absolutely. I'm on my way. Yeah. up here and hang out with me. And Laurel's like, absolutely. I'm on my way. Yeah. Laurel pulls into the pool parking lot sometime after three, 315, something like that. She and she as she pulls in, she like makes eye contact with this guy who's leaving the pool. They kind of like wave at each other. She thinks she must know him, but she doesn't really recognize him. But like they make

enough eye contact that they kind of wave at each other which is a super midwest thing yeah yeah like super midwest whether you know someone or not you make eye contact with them you pretty much say hi or wave or something did i tell you when i when i went to college in boston i would when i passed people on the street, I would always wave and say hello. And a lot of dudes thought I was like trying to start a conversation. Oh my gosh. And I was just like, my God, what is wrong with you people? This is Midwest polite. There's a limit.

It's hello and we go. Yes, and that's it. Yeah, that's it. That's all it is. And so she just kind of has this moment, doesn't really think anything of it. The guy gets in a truck. He leaves. She gets out of her. The guy gets in a truck. He leaves. She gets out of her car.

She goes into the pool. Only she can't find Allie. Allie's stuff is still there, like her car's still there. But she looks around. She doesn't see her. And I'm unclear at that point if Laurel actually leaves or if she hangs out at the pool waiting for Allie to get back. But time passes and around five o'clock, Allie's brother, Tyler Kemp, shows up for his shift at the pool. So he's scheduled

at five and he's Allie's relief. And I don't know if they're like lifeguarding or if they're just kind of in charge of, you know, making sure that shit's not getting thrown everywhere. It's a really nice community. And so whatever. So he shows up at five and he can't find Allie either. He goes into like the pump room, which is like this little pool house where they keep like the chemicals and stuff like that. He looks in there real quick. She's not in there. But he starts to get concerned

because again, her stuff is there, but she's not. And she, like he is her relief. So there's no way she could have left until he her relief so there's no way she could have left until he gets there there's no way she should have right right and so he's concerned and he calls their dad roger and so it's like 5 15 and roger kemp shows up at the pool and he's alarmed immediately and so he starts by looking in the pool like did something happen is happen? Is she, like, at the bottom of the pool? And this is not a really big pool, right? It's not.

It's not a big pool, but it does have a shallow and deep end, and so he checks the pool. She's not in it. He checks the surrounding area. She's not there, and then he goes into the pump room. At first glance, he doesn't really see anything out of order, and then he looks over, and he sees that there's this tarp kind of spread out. And he goes and he looks closer at the tarp and he sees a leg under the tarp.

And so he pulls the tarp back and there is Allie laying on the floor of the pump room. She is bloody. She has been beat like horribly. He reaches under her and he feels her back and he's talking to her and she's unconscious, but she's warm. Oh my God. And so he calls the police, gets paramedics there and he's just talking to her. He's like, he's like, stay with me. Stay with me. You're okay. You're going to be OK. Her shirt has been taken off and is like wrapped around her neck. Her sports bra has been pulled up and she's missing her bottoms. Like her shorts and her underwear are gone.

She's naked from the waist down. Paramedics get there. Police get there. They load her up. But she is declared dead on the way to the hospital. And so immediately a homicide investigation begins. Like somebody did this to her. Right.

So they start looking at this pump room and there's blood everywhere. And there's bits of evidence here and there that they're taking stock of. And then they start making a list of everybody who's at the pool. And so they've got, you know, people in the neighborhood, they've got a maintenance worker that happened to be there. And so, you know, they're kind of locking down the situation, taking inventory, whatever. As the investigation moves forward, an autopsy determines that Allie fought for her life. She was, her head was beat against the ground multiple times. Her fingers were broken from fighting so hard. She had just scrapes up and down both of her arms, like in defensive ways. There was DNA from somebody else on her and there was blood from somebody else in the pump room.

Both of her eyes were blackened. She had bruises all over her legs and inner thighs. It was clear that someone had attempted to assault her, but she had not actually been sexually assaulted. Yes. But she had fought hard. But unfortunately, you know, whoever this monster who had done this had had overpowered her and had killed her. So the investigation moves forward, and they're kind of they're able to isolate out some DNA and know that that is the suspect. Yeah.

But now they have to match it with somebody. It doesn't automatically just come back as a match in the system. And so they start by going down that list of people who were at the pool that day. And they start, you know, narrowing people down, like marking people off who live in the neighborhood and stuff like that. And they get to that maintenance guy who happened to be at the pool that day. And his name was Teddy Hoover. And so they track Teddy Hoover down. They go and talk to him. And he's like, Yeah, I was at the pool that day. But you

know, I own a pool company, I was just trying to get their business. And they're like, Okay, that's fine. You know, we'd just like to get a DNA sample from you just to just to clear you. Yeah. And he's like, Yeah, yeah. That's fine. You know, I'll do that. But I want to talk to my lawyer first. Okay. And they're like, okay. All right. That's fine.

Give us a call back once you've talked to your lawyer. Here's our, you know, here's our information, whatever. Time passes. They're working on, they work with Laurel, the friend of Allie's who had come to the pool that day. with laurel the friend of ali's who had come to the pool that day because they figured out based on the timeline that the guy that she had waved at and made eye contact with was likely the guy who had killed ali and so she works with police and creates a composite sketch so in the back you know part of the investigators are working on tracking down this list and eliminating people um and then other people are focusing on this composite sketch.

So she works with investigators to put together this composite sketch. And they find someone who matches it. His name is James Strader. And he is a mechanic or something like that, that was working at an auto body shop near the pool that day. He has a record of some kind of violent crime. I don't know the specifics. And so they're like, this might be our guy. He matches the sketch like perfectly. And so they track him down. He has like an iron clad alibi. And so they're like, shit, this isn't him. And so they clear him down he has like an iron clad alibi and so they're like shit shit this isn't him and so they they clear him and then he kidnaps a girl in south like southern kansas and then brings her

back to the kansas area and rapes her oh my god yeah and so they're like okay wait maybe this is our guy yeah yeah yeah and so they're like okay this has to be him like we cleared him too quickly and so they're they're zeroed in on this james strater guy only they can't find him now he's on the run so finally they track him down in utah okay they get his dna it's not him it's not him maintenance guy so they're like back to square one okay so at this point they know they have that guy teddy hoover like yeah was supposed to call them back about doing a dna test and never did and so they go back to follow up on that and they find out that he's left town only there's no record of any teddy ho Hoover ever living anywhere where this guy lived. Uh-huh.

So they figure out that he gave them a fake name. Well, OK, now, come on. How did they not know that more earlier on? I don't know. I don't know. So essentially, they have a suspect, but they have no idea who he is. Yeah. And so the case is going to just go cold.

And Roger Kemp, Allie's dad, is like, not on my fucking watch. This case is not going cold. And so he goes and he talks to Lamar Advertising. Have you ever heard of Lamar Advertising? Okay. So they are huge in billboards. Yes. Yes.

And he has this revolutionary idea, this idea that's never been done before. This is believed to be the first instance this was ever used. It's used more now. He goes and talks to Lamar Advertising, and he wants to put the composite sketch on a billboard, on multiple billboards, you know, and start a tip line and offer a reward. Yes. And so billboards had been used, but it had usually been pictures of the victim or if they had an actual picture of a suspect. But all they had was a composite sketch.

And so he goes and he talks to Lamar advertising because he doesn't even know how much this costs. Yeah. Like a billboard could be crazy expensive. I assume it is. Yeah. They volunteer their services when they donate a billboard and they donated it in a super high profile area i don't know exactly where it went up but it was seen by 50 000 pairs

of eyes a day wow yeah and so it goes up and it starts bringing in tips so investigators start following up on leads but nothing's but nothing's really getting them anywhere. And then two tips come in. One says that they know Teddy Hoover's real identity. Okay. That his name is Benjamin Appleby. Okay. And another comes in, and this tip is completely anonymous, saying that Teddy Hoover is Benjamin Appleby and he's now living in Connecticut.

All right. And so police track him down to Connecticut and they go and they meet, Kansas police go and meet with Connecticut police. And they find out that Benjamin Appleby not only has a long record for indecent exposure, public masturbation, all kinds of disgusting things. He also has an active warrant in Connecticut. And so Connecticut police can just go arrest him. I love it. Yes. And so Kansas detectives work with Connecticut detectives.

So Connecticut detectives go and arrest him. They bring him in on this other warrant. And they're doing like the booking in procedure. Meanwhile, Kansas detectives are setting up in another room so that they can interrogate him after he's booked on this warrant. Yeah. So while he's being booked on this warrant, he asks the Connecticut authorities, like, am I going to get a chance to talk to my lawyer? And they're like, of course. Yeah.

Of course. Absolutely. You'll get a chance to talk to your lawyer. And so they, you know, book him in and then they show him that they have a warrant for his DNA. And so he signs off on the warrant saying, you know, he understands what's going on. He understands that he has to give a sample of his DNA. He understands that if he wishes to sample of his dna he understands that if he wishes to speak to his lawyer he can and then they get his dna sample wait didn't he

say he wanted to talk to his lawyer he asked if he'd get a chance to talk to his lawyer okay he never asked to speak to his lawyer i don't love that but. So all of that goes down. They get his DNA sample. And then they're like, hey, we've got some detectives from Kansas in another room involving another case. They're interested in talking to you. Would you want to speak to them? And he's like, yeah, yeah, I'll go. I'll talk to him. What?

Yeah. And so he goes into a room and sits down with the Kansas detectives and he starts talking to them. And at this point, they let him know that they know who he is, that his name's Benjamin Appleby, that he's in that. They know he gave them a false name. And he's like, well, yeah, I got into some trouble in my past. And so I started going by the name Teddy Hoover, which is the name of a friend of mine from like middle school who died. Oh, okay. Did he kill him too? I mean, geez. And so they ask him, you know, were you at that the pool that day? At first he's like, no, no,

I don't. I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. I've never even heard of a pool. Never been a pool don't know anything about it like they get him talking a little more and he admits that yes he had been to the pool that day just to try and get the maintenance job on it you know but that's it and they're like okay cool cool so they're like okay cool cool so you just stopped by the pool that day just to you know see if if you could get a maintenance job huh and he's like yeah i owned i had a pool company and they're like okay cool and they're like hey do you want to come in this other room with us and so they take him into a separate interrogation room and in this room they have a bunch of the evidence from the crime scene set up across the table uh--huh. And he sits down.

And this is all on tape. Uh-huh. Once they go into the other room. Their first room was not recorded. When they go into the second room, it's all recorded. And he sits down. And he just immediately can't stop staring at the evidence on the table. And then he just, like, sighs and puts his head in his hands.

And he's like, I did it. I killed her. What? Yeah yeah and they're like okay you know tell us tell us about it yeah and so he says that he went to the pool that day in hopes to get a maintenance job and that he'd seen ally and he thought that she was very good looking and so he'd followed her into the pool room and he made a pass at her he'd hit on her and she had turned him down yeah and so when she was going to leave the pool room he blocked the door and again she was like yeah no i'm not interested and so he said in that moment he just snapped and he lost it and he beat the hell out of her. And then he must have strangled her. Oh, yeah.

Oopsies. Don't remember that. Yeah. So he knocked her to the ground. He beat the hell out of her. He beat her head against the ground multiple times. Her autopsy revealed there was like hemorrhaging. That meant that her strangulation took between 11 and 16 minutes, meaning that he

likely like stopped and started multiple times. Yeah. And there was a mixture of both manual strangulation and ligature strangulation. Oh. So he said that once he had attacked her, he knocked her out. And while she was unconscious, he pulled her clothing off and he went and got a first aid kit and he pulled ointment out of the first aid kit to use as lubrication so that he could rape her. But he'd been unable to achieve an erection. And so he was unable to sexually assault her. Imagine. Yeah.

Hmm. Yeah. And then at that point, he doesn't really remember what happened. He must have strangled her, but he doesn't really remember. And he must have strangled her but he doesn't really remember and he was pretty sure she was still alive when he left the oh what a good when he got up to leave the the pump room he was pretty sure she was still breathing yeah okay yeah and so he's like crying and admitting to all of this about how old a guy was he he's like 30 okay yeah this is so weird yeah yeah and so he admits to to all of this to the detectives and so they arrest him and they bring him back to johnson county so that he can

face murder charges for the murder of ali kemp he would this thing would get drawn out. So that happened in 2004. He was arrested in 2004. And the trial kept getting delayed because he had all these motions. He wanted to get his confession thrown out. He wanted, because it was obtained illegally. He wanted... On the grounds that he'd asked for his attorney or how was it obtained illegally? Do you know? Yeah. So initially I think that was the claim, but he had actually been Mirandized separately when the Kansas detectives spoke to him. So it was obtained completely legally.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. There are some questions about, you know, if what the Connecticut police... So the Connecticut detective that he spoke with said that he thought he was asking hypothetically would he get a chance to speak to his attorney that he never believed he was invoking his

right to an attorney. And he testified to that at trial. OK. And that had he thought he was invoking his right to an attorney, he would have, of course, let him call his attorney. But the Connecticut police hadn't even interrogated him on the charges he was arrested for. They had only executed the DNA warrant. OK.

interrogated him on the charges he was arrested for. They had only executed the DNA warrant. Right. Okay. So he did also want to fight to get his DNA thrown out because it was obtained illegally. It was not. It was obtained by warrant, which he signed. And so this guy, oh, his public defender asked to be removed from the case and the judge denied it. Why did the public defender? So they, she didn't give a reason. And that's why the judge denied it. Why did the public defender? So they she didn't give a reason. And that's why the judge denied it. He said, unless you have a conflict of interest, you have not presented like you don't get to just say I'm not doing this case. I mean, not that I blame her. Yeah.

They also asked for the judge to recuse himself from the case because. Well, did they want the moon and the stars? They sure did. So they said that the judge had scheduled the trial around the district attorney's political schedule. And so that showed bias. Yeah. And so but the judge refused to recuse himself. And so finally, the trial began in December of 2006.

Wow. The defense, again, once the trial began, fought hard to get the confession thrown out. And the judge looked at all the evidence and determined that Appleby had been properly Mirandized before giving his confession and was like, no, this was obtained legally. And he was allowed that he allowed the full taped confession to be played in court, which is gets really hard to. Yeah, it looks pretty damn bad. Yeah. So the prosecution initially had said they were going to seek the death penalty and they did not end up doing that. Right.

But they argued that the murder was premeditated. But the defense was like, no, not only was this not premeditated, wasn't even his fault. Uh, excuse me? You benjamin appleby suffered from intermittent explosive disorder what the hell is that that sounds made up not made up it is a real disorder and so he simply had an uncontrollable rage response to being rejected by Allie that day. Well, then everybody on Earth would have done that. Yeah. Okay.

Rejection is part of the human experience. Not only that, but the jury should absolutely not find him guilty of capital murder because he didn't even think she was dead when he left the pump room well so that doesn't matter died you know it should be a lesser charge oh gross because when he left he was pretty sure she was still alive oh great yeah good for him yeah so that all that means to me is you could have done something to save her then. Do you want to know what I think is the most disgusting part of this? Okay. So when Benjamin Appleby confessed, so he said the whole reason his name showed up on the log of people that were there at the crime scene that day, because he left at 315. So how was it when the police were there at five that he was there? He came back because he wanted to see what happened when people found her.

Oh, gross. Yeah, I think it's so disgusting. And that's how he ended up in the log of people that were at the pool that evening. Well, you know, thank God. Exactly. Thank God he was such a crazy idiot. Yeah. So, yeah. So the defense is like, jury, listen, it's not his fault, first of all. Second of all, yeah, he killed her.

But he didn't actually think he'd killed her. So you can't find him guilty of capital murder. Okay, that's not how that works. It's got to be a lesser charge, you know, accidental homicide or something. Oh, God. The jury deliberated for only three hours. That's pretty awesome. Yeah.

Before returning a guilty verdict on both the capital murder charge and then he was also charged with attempted rape. On December 26th, 2006, Appleby, who asked to be excused from his own sentencing hearing. Why he couldn't handle being in the courtroom oh get over the judge granted it the Kemp family was furious yeah yeah yeah I would have been furious too yeah so he was not even in the room for his own sentencing because that's their chance to get up and say how they were impacted. Yeah. No, don't like it. I don't like it either. So on December 26, 2006, he was sentenced to life in prison with a hard 50. So, you know, Kansas has those hard, they're kind of known for their hard 40 law. I'd never heard of a hard 50 law. But so this was that means that he has to serve 50 years before he is eligible for parole. Wow. And then he was also sentenced to an additional 20 years for the attempted rape charge to

be served at the end of his hard 50. Yeah. Ha ha ha ha. Yeah. So he was Benjamin Appleby was pissed with this sentence sentence in 2009 if only he'd been there to say something yeah in 2009 he appealed his sentence on the basis of double jeopardy what yes so this is really interesting so he said that because he was convicted of capital murder, capital murder involves a mitigating circumstance or an aggravating circumstance. The aggravating circumstance that was used to convict him of capital murder was attempted rape.

He said that that means that they should then not be able to charge him separately with attempted rape. Oh, my God. him separately with attempted rape oh my god so this appeal went all the way to the kansas and they agreed with benjamin appleby they said because that was used as the aggravating circumstance he could not then be charged separately with attempted rape and so they i mean it makes it makes sense it does and so they overturned that conviction and reduced that part of his sentence. Okay. But he was still left with the hard 50 sentence. Yeah.

So he's still pissed. Well, you know, couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Yeah. I mean, who gives a shit? So, like, five years later, he appeals again. And this time, he appeals on the grounds that he had ineffective counsel. You know,

his public defender had tried to leave and they weren't all in on, you know, fighting for him. Whatever. This appeal is denied.

Yeah. Then this guy is still not satisfied. He's pissed about the hard 50. So just this year in August he filed an appeal

what and said that um a hard 50 sentence is unconstitutional so there was a supreme court ruling um a couple of years ago that said um the hard 50 or hard 40 laws have to be imposed by a jury, not a judge. And in this case, the sentence was imposed by a judge. And so that ruling said that people could ask for their sentences to be reviewed. And so that's what he was doing. So on October 24th of 2019, so this was just a couple of weeks ago, Benjamin Appleby went before a judge and was like, this was unconstitutional. A judge imposed this hard 50 sentence. I should get my sentence reduced. You know, a jury didn't, didn't give that sentence.

And so the judge looked it over and he upheld his sentence. Good. Yes. Good. So he will not be eligible for parole until he's like 80 years old. Oh, thank God. Yeah. He will likely not ever get out of prison.

He shouldn't. This case likely would not have been solved without the forward thinking of Roger Kemp. Yeah. To put the composite sketch on that billboard. This is something, as I mentioned earlier, that other police have used and have had success from. The tipsters who led them to Benjamin Appleby, the reward was $50,000 and it was split between the two tipsters. One of them got $10,000 of it. And the other one who told them that Benjamin Appleby was living in Connecticut was to get the $40,000 remaining.

And that person was completely anonymous. Okay. And they turned down the reward and asked that it go to the Ali Kemp Foundation. Wow. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Roger Kemp said when that happens, it's just such a testament to the people in Kansas City

and what, you know, just those good Midwestern values that people have. The Ali Kim Foundation is amazing. They're still active today. They do scholarships and they do self-defense classes for women. That's how I know this case. It is? I, before I went to college. Yeah.

So I was going to go to college in Boston and my mom was the one who was like, yeah, you can go wherever you want. But before you go, it was the summer before I left. We went and took a class that was, you know. Yeah. I assume just paid for by this foundation. It was a really good class. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's that's the only reason I know about this. Although I do kind of vaguely remember, I vaguely remember that case just because it was so scary because there are tons of neighborhood pools around here. Oh, yeah. And we would always go to the neighborhood pool in the summer. All the time. Yeah, it was usually

one lifeguard, often there alone. Yeah. Oftentimes, you know, like a 16-year-old girl. Yeah. And no one ever thought to be scared of that until that happened. Yeah, exactly. And it's just it's just one of those cases where this is just like a super nice area. It's just like this kind of thing doesn't happen around here. Yeah. And she was just like this beautiful girl who was doing so well in life and had her whole life ahead of her.

And it was just completely snuffed out by this monster. I really want to know who did the tips. I know. So I learned this too in this. So Crime Stoppers, when they do these tip lines, when they say anonymous, it's completely anonymous. That person who called in the tip is given a number, like a code number. And that's how they can recontact them or they can call back in. And so they had a code number and that's how they can recontact them or they can call back in like and so they had a code number for this person and they tried to reach out to them to give them the reward money and they turned it down i don't know about midwestern values though we've got a lot of serial killers out here we do we have a lot of really nice people though too so my cousin was actually friends with Allie Kemp and like no way I mean he attended her funeral my my dad was telling me this yesterday when I was asking about

the pool yeah no she went so she went to Blue Valley North my cousin went to Blue Valley Northwest um yeah oh my gosh yeah hold on I want to look up this guy. Appleby. Ronald? Benjamin? Oh, he's creepy looking. Yeah, he's super creepy looking. Yeah. So I don't know what appeals he could possibly have left, but. Should we talk about something exciting that happened today? Yes.

Let me pull up the thing. Where am I going to find it? Hang on. Okay. You guys. pull up the thing where am i gonna find it hang on okay you guys we have a very exciting announcement yes although technically it's not ours so we're gonna ask permission to say this later and you know if she says it can't be said we won't say it but over on our patreon this morning, Geneva posted. This is so exciting. She goes, OMG, my water broke while listening to Bob Moss episode. She said, while laughing during the Bob Moss episode this morning, my water broke. I'm calling it now.

My baby is an LGTC fan hoping for a smooth delivery. Wish me luck. We're so excited. We're so excited. And I, of course, commented back, Geneva, if you don't name your baby Brandy, regardless of gender, I'm going to be very upset. And by that, we mean best wishes.

Yes. So that's so exciting. I know, that's so exciting. And obviously the baby's going to be an LGTC fan, duh. I mean, it's hard to grow an audience, but this is a great way to do it. Just give birth to more audience members. Oh, um, people might've noticed that there's no Norman this episode. Oh,

I'm so sad. I know. You didn't even give me any warning. I just showed up here today and you're like, oh, by the way, Norm's gone. Oh, I'm sorry that it's me. Did you murder him? I guess you'll find out eventually. I mean, you're only going to let this go on for so long. No, Norman is visiting his family back home. Ugh. So it's just you and stinking me. Peanut's here. Hi, Peanut.

Peanut is barely awake over here. And she's not much of an audio engineer. So all this to say that Brandy has asked our Discord for questions. And if you're like, oh, my God, how do I become a part of that? I'm here to tell you. That's right. Tell us how to get in the Discord, Kristen. It's only $5 a month.

You join the appellate court at $5 a month, and you are in our Discord chatting away. You get to listen to bonus episodes. And if you're like, my God, I must have more. That's the $7 level. That's when you're inducted into the Supreme Court. You get a sticker. You get our little signatures. Some people call that an autograph, but I'm an alien from out of sports.

It's my first day speaking English. You get all the benefits of all the lower tiers and videos coming soon. Okay. We've got some good questions coming. All right. Are you ready? Yes. Okay.

Don of 952. That's his screen name. Okay. Don of 952 asks, where would you go on your dream vacation? Oh, oh, oh, this is very tough. It is tough because I have like two. I want to go to New York City. I've only been for work before. And so I want to go for fun and like see all the shows and do all the stuff. That's one of them. And then my other is to go like on a tropical vacation and

be on a beach and get tan and drink, you know, drinks out of coconuts and stuff like that. Which which tropical location? Just any? I want to go to Belize. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Why are you making a face like that?

I don't know. Is it that you just want to go so bad? Is Belize still safe? Are you still allowed to go there? Oh, I don't know. I don't know. I assume. I wondered why you were making that face.

Because my dad's going to be, my dad will immediately be like, absolutely not. You cannot go to Belize. And here are eight reasons why so you want to go to a tropical vacation outside of johnson county kansas not allowed um i really want to go to spain i've never been to spain but oh just seems like fun yeah but yeah i i want to go everywhere so okay in Blonde wants to know who were your celebrity crushes growing up? Should we do each other's? Yeah. Brandy was in love with Freddie Prinze Jr. Oh, I did lose eyebrows.

Oh, and that puppy dog look he always had. You're so weird about eyebrows. There was a guy in our high school who i i'm gonna say he looked like he did brandy would just stare longingly turned out to be gay but you know hey hey kristin's was heath ledger oh my god obsessed obsessed had the poster his hair was so gross what are you talking i'm talking about his gross hair i know what you're talking i guess you know it did look a little greasy but that was the bad boy we can't all go for eyebrows brandy i also loved as i got a little bit older i also loved mark mcgrath i had

oh yeah you got speaking of gross No, he had like the frosted tits. I know. Oh, he had all those tattoos. You know, he's gotten like all of his tattoos removed. Well, I'm sure they were all stupid. He had McGrath across his back. He had his own name. He had sparrows on his throat. He looked like a badass. His frosted tips were legendary. You, the frosted tips, the puka shell necklace, the tattoo. I know. Uh-oh. She's getting worked up, guys.

I have a taste. Ooh, Melinda asks, what would your last meal be? Oh, that's tough. It's too hard. I don't know if I can do it. I love so much food. There'd have to be pizza because that's my favorite food. Okay.

But I don't want to just have pizza. Well, what do you think? A pizza and then I would have a pizza shop salad, which is my favorite thing in the world. And if you're not from around here, you have no idea what that is. What's on it? It's a Midwest salad. So it's got all kinds of crap. So it's this pizza chain that was

started here in in it was actually started in shawnee and so but it's branched out to more areas in the midwest i think there's some in nebraska and oklahoma now anyway other exotic local salad is super basic it is just like romaine lettuce mozzarella cheese, bacon bits, pepperonis, and then the best dressing you've ever had in your life. And it's pink. Yeah. Pink garlic. It's called the pink stuff.

Yeah. Oh, so freaking good. What kind of pizza? Like where from or what flavor? No one says what flavor pizza. What topping? Yeah. Are you asking what toppings?

Yes. Probably pepperoni. Pepperoni's my favorite. All right. And then I'd have to have dessert, of course. What would your dessert be? That's tough. Probably pie of some kind.

Okay. Yeah. Coconut cream, lemon meringue. All right. Yeah. Yeah. What would yours be? tough probably pie of some kind okay yeah coconut cream lemon meringue all right yeah yeah what would yours be you know what i love i love a good like thanksgiving spread oh no you guys we went out for mexican and i've been trying to cut back on meat and i got the most disgusting looking meal you've ever ordered i swear it looked really bad and i liked chilaquiles but that was not that was not good it looked like there was a string cheese on top of some

tortilla chips that someone had already eaten oh yeah they usually crumble up the queso fresco and this i don't know if they were like we don't have the time. It was not good. But yeah, I would do like a Thanksgiving spread with all the sides and stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's right around the corner. I know. Maybe that's why I answered that way. What would you have for dessert? Oh, God.

You're like an ice cream custard person. No, no, no, no. Whoa, excuse me. You don't know me. No, I do like custard. Oh, you know what? Custard dust. No, absolutely not.

I would not have the raspberry concrete. Yeah, that's exactly what you'd have. All right, all right. Ooh, ma'am. Ma'am. Oh, it's my mom. If you could see anyone or any group in concert who would it be oh my god oh i know who

so okay my mom and kyla for my birthday we went to see celine dion in concert yeah and it's one of those things like I would have never been like oh we have to go see Celine Dion but like it was my birthday we kind of wanted to do an event and like you know Kyla was like oh we could go do a race together but I'd just done the marathon and anyway we went to see Celine Dion it was amazing it was the best and just so much fun like kyla and i were yeah um it got me thinking about what would be really fun to see and i think that if you and i went to see the spice girl that would be amazing it would be the best thing ever amazing we would die we would die on the spot we would die you'd have to have your pizza shop salad beforehand so someone who i am dying to see so there's this artist she's an australian artist she's not that well known here um she's kind of like an alternative artist but she

toured the united states once like as an opening act when she was first starting out and she's not been back to the U.S. since. And I want her to come here so bad. Her name is Amy Shark and she's like my freaking favorite right now. And she's actually in the United States right now. And I'm hoping she's like going to announce that she's doing a U.S. tour. I thought you were going to say, I hope she's listening. No, no, no, no.

Like I just hope she's going to announce that she's going to do a U.S. tour. Okay, okay. She's my favorite. Very good question, ma'am. Ooh. What is your go-to movie to make yourself cry? Oh. Ugh.

Steel Magnolias. Ugh. That is a good one. Okay. The movie that I remember crying the hardest in, and my mom can attest to this because she was like, are you physically okay? Uh other sister oh yeah because I have that secondhand embarrassment thing you know and there's a part where she's just horribly horribly embarrassed in that movie and I just like bawled my eyes out that was hard I know exactly the part you're talking about oh oh it was

like just physically painful for me to watch it and And I was so young when I saw it. I was just like, well, my mom was like, it is a movie. I was like, I can't handle it. The hardest I've ever cried in a movie was The Notebook. Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, I remember driving home from the movie theater with my ex and just. And I think he was afraid we were going to die in the car that night. Yeah, I did cry really hard in the notebook, too.

Oh, that was Kay Burns that asked that. I don't think I said that. Ooh. Ooh. What do we got? Agthoven? A-A-C-H-O-V-E-N. What?

A-G-T-H-O-V-E-N. I'm sorry for not knowing how to pronounce your handle. Said, since you guys are going to visit case sites, would you rather visit the snake house or the spider house? Oh, fuck. Oh, fuck. Oh. I mean, both of them claim that they've been remedied. I am.

I'm the one that's scared of spiders. I'd rather go to the spider house. Really? Yeah. Because of the snake tunnels? Yeah. It was just too freaky? Yeah.

Well, I just think it's easier. Do I have to go inside? Well, of course. I don't want to go inside the spider house. No one wants to go anywhere near these houses. But I mean, I think that's what they... I'd take a picture outside the spider house from the curb. That's not at all what this question is.

I think it is. A snake could still attack me on the curb. A spider's not going to get me. If it's a brown recluse, you probably wouldn't even know. Oh, it's just in my hood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to go to either of them.

No. I changed my answer. So if I had to choose. Yeah. Snake house or spider house? The thing I'm thinking is at least with the snakes, they're big enough that I would spot them. Yeah. But a brown recluse...

It could just be in your hair right now, Kristen! You know what? I'd have to go to the spider house. I'd have to. I could not do the snake house. I can't even talk about it. I know. You're very, like, cringed up right now.

I'm compact. You're compact. I'm a compact friend right now. Yeah, I'd probably go to the snake house. All right, well, let's go. Ooh. Here's a question for you and a question for me. So we each answer for the other person.

Okay. What's the other person's secret talent? Hmm. I have one that relates to a game we used to play. One for have one that relates to a game we used to play. One for you. It relates to a game we used to play when we were kids at sleepovers. What is it? You can write with your feet.

Can I? Don't you remember that game Hidden Talents? You know what? I was better at that. Yes, you were like the only one who could actually do it. Suck on that, everyone. That thing you do with your tongue oh yeah that sounds filthy dirty what do you i can touch my tongue to my nose yeah okay there you go

i have the world's longest tongue oh god we should stop it's freakishly long yeah i can touch my okay well yeah this is a podcast where people listen, so all they heard was your gross mouth noises. But yeah, I'd say that's your talent right there. Yeah. Ooh. Ooh, what you got? Oh, that came from someone who rudely uses a weird font for their username and i couldn't possibly read it um chunky something thank you chunky something chunky windings

um oh this one comes from old timey disclaimer i love that um if you could have the dateline crew cover any old timey case what case and who would do the interviews? Okay. Keith Morrison. Keith Morrison. Duh. Torn Love Letters. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. What episode is that? I don't know. It's an old one. And I remember an old one. I remember that was one of those where was it episode eight where we hadn't figured out the audio yet. So it's a good episode, but it's an excellent episode it's okay it's not like you guys listen to this or anything so you'll be fine episode seven yeah terrible audio great story excellent story even better hosts all right should we wrap yeah thank. Thank you for the questions, guys. We appreciate it. It's always fun.

They were some great questions this time. Not like last time. Not like last time. I don't know why you said that. All right, guys. We are wrapping up with Supreme Court Inductions. This is our final week where we're doing favorite movie snacks. Oh, Brandi, what kind of signal was that you were giving? That was the stretch it out signal. Yeah, but you gave me the wrap it up signal. I'm sorry. I meant to do like a... doing favorite movie snacks oh brandy what kind of signal was that you were that was a that was

the stretch it out signal yeah but you gave me the rapid i'm sorry i meant to do like i knew what you meant but now i'm calling you i'm still pulling up my google drive here good grief grandma's got to get her documents in order let me get my papers out okay i'm ready to do supreme court inductions are you i'm just waiting on you kristen all right here we go dara wait what i'm gonna have people do this time well normally you do it and then you just fudge the bucket there i come up with it every time kristen you tell them what to do no that's not true One time I did that hilarious Macarena joke. If everybody could cha-cha real slow now.

I feel like I'm at a white wedding. And by that I mean a wedding full of white people. Oh, not like a Billy Idol? No, I realized how that sounded. You know when the cha-cha goes on, all the white people get up to dance. All right, this will be, like you said, our last week doing favorite movie snacks. Why you got to repeat after me? Well, sorry, I'm getting giggly now.

Well, you got to copy everything I say. I was reminding people. Okay, so if everybody could stand and cha-cha real slow do it again crisscross reverse okay take it away kristen dara sour patch watermelons did i say watermelons weird no No, you said it fine. Now you're making it weird. I thought I said watermelons. Sour Patch Watermelons and Buttery Popcorn. Kyle. Good Old Fashioned Popcorn.

Allison Plemons. Cherry Coke with Fresh Hot Popcorn. Carly. Popcorn. Jeez, people love popcorn. And a gigantic Diet Coke Michelle Mills Diet Dr. Pepper

Cookie Dough Bites And popcorn stolen from my husband Erica Davies Cherry Ices Welcome to the Supreme Court Oh, this is fun. This is so fun. You know what?

We don't need Norm. That's right. We can. No, Norm, please come back. Baby, come back. You can blame it all on me. That'll for sure make him come back. For sure make him come back.

He'll hear that and be like, oh, my God. How have I stayed awake? You guys, thank you so much for your support. We appreciate it so much, more than we can say, really. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please find us on social media. Or on the social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, YouTube, all those places. Once you've done that, please head on over to Apple Podcasts.

Leave us a rating. Leave us a review. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen. And then join us next week. When we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all

back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from the New York Times, Time Magazine, Vanity Fair, ABC News, Vox, Billboard, and The Rolling Stone. And I got my info from an episode of Stolen Voices, Buried Secrets. An episode of the Generation Y podcast, The Court Records, as well as articles from the Kansas City Star, The Lawrence Journal World, and Fox 4KC. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours, but please don't take our word for it.

Go read their stuff.