Let's Go To Court! - 98: Celia Fought Back & the Disappearance of Kelsey Berreth

Episode Date: December 4, 2019

Celia was sick and tired. She was an enslaved woman, living in Missouri. It seemed the man who purchased her had done so for the sole purpose of raping her. For years, Robert Newsom raped Celia. She did everything she could to stop him. Then, after roughly five years of abuse, Celia reached her breaking point. Robert said he would come to her cabin that night. She warned him not to. She said she’d hurt him. She wasn’t kidding. Then Brandi tells us about the disappearance of Kelsey Berreth. Kelsey went missing on Thanksgiving Day, 2018. That weekend, she texted her boss at Doss Aviation to say she wouldn’t be in the next week. But that wasn’t like Kelsey. Her mom, Cheryl-Lee sensed that something was wrong. Kelsey had an infant daughter and an important career as a pilot. She wouldn’t have just taken off.  And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: The book, “Celia, A Slave,” by Melton A. McLaurin “Missouri v. Celia, a Slave: She killed the white master raping her, then claimed self-defense,” by DeNeed L. Brown for the Washington Post “Celia, A Slave Trial,” by Douglas O. Linder for famous-trials.com “State of Missouri v. Celia, a Slave” wikipedia.com In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “Kelsey Berreth Case: What to Know About the Missing Colorado Mom Last Seen on Thanksgiving Day” by Caitlin Nolan, Inside Edition“Fiancé of missing Colorado mother Kelsey Berreth arrested, charged with murder” Associated Press, CBS News “Kelsey Berreth case: Timeline of investigation and Patrick Frazee’s murder trial” by The Denver 7 Team, The Denver Channel “Kelsey Berreth murder trial: Patrick Frazee had hit list of witnesses to kill, inmate says in testimony” by Carol McKinley, Clayton Sandell, and Emily Shapiro, ABC News “Patrick Frazee found guilty of killing missing fiancee Kelsey Berreth; sentenced to life without parole” by Clayton Sandell, Carol McKinley, and Emily Shapiro, ABC News “Patrick Frazee convicted of killing his fiancée, sentenced to life without the possibility of parole” by Jack Hannah and Darran Simon, CNN

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts! I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court! On this episode I'll talk about when Celia fought back. And I'll be talking about the disappearance of Kelsey Barrett. Who the fuck is Celia? You're about to find out and it's gonna be terrible. Oh it's a dark one it's yeah it's terrible oh mine's really dark too oh well great excellent bummer just in time for the holidays so as we're recording right now it's the day before thanksgiving but this will come out the week after thanksgiving right so very confusing you know people space time continuum and all of

that time is a construct but we're wishing you a happy Thanksgiving now. And Norm. Norm. Norm's back. Welcome back. Hey, I'm back. Welcome back. Heard you guys had some audio issues last week.

Yeah, well, it's because someone abandoned us. Yes. You abandoned us in the time of need. Yeah, I apologize for that. Yeah, thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I've been working on a big old video, so I needed some time. Oh, don't use this podcast as an opportunity to plug yourself.

Promote your little YouTube show. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Sorry, that's not very professional. No, no. But speaking of plugs, Brandi just bought a butt plug. Whoa! Whoa!

Absolutely not. Speaking of plugs, you guys, on Patreon patreon we're kind of killing it if you get on there at the seven dollar level that's the supreme court level you can watch a video of our recent trip to branson missouri and the ha ha tonka castle which you covered in episode 61 61 yes um okay the video is so much fun uh norman can you give people a little warning though yeah can you Castle, which you covered in episode 61. 61. Yes. Okay. The video is so much fun. Norman, can you give people a little warning, though? Can you give them a sample of what they might hear on there?

So Norman recorded us at Ha Ha Tonka Castle, and he was a little under the weather. The mouth breathing is unbelievable. It is unbelievable unbelievable so i totally forgot that phones do this the mic faces you faces me yeah so yeah if i'm mouth breathing like brainy from hey arnold yes that's exactly what you sound like or like a serial killer yeah it's it's gonna pick it all up so i do apologize for that no but i think the video i think the video turned out pretty good. The video is really funny. It captures all of the hijinks of our road trip. It's really fun.

So that's a new thing we're doing for Supreme Court members. They're getting a monthly video. They can't all take place in beautiful Branson, Missouri, though. We're not millionaires. Are you ready to tease next month's video? I think I am ready to tease it. Yeah. I don't remember what episode it was where we talked about sausage brunch.

And you were like, what the hell is sausage brunch? It's a holiday meal. It's mandatory in my family that we eat sausage brunch on Christmas morning. And we're going to do a video where I make it, share the recipe. And you guys have to watch us eat it. The entire thing. You can watch DP spill some all over himself. We should get DP in here.

Yes. It was a live reenactment of spilling sausage French on himself. So, yeah, that's what you get at the $7 level on Patreon. Also, bonus episodes. You get to join our Discord. You get inducted on the podcast. What more do you want? A sticker.

A sticker. Okay, you get a sticker, too. I would demand a sticker if I'm signing up at $7. Fair. All right. Should we get into our terrible episode that's going to bum everybody out? I guess. Holy hell.

Okay. Talk about Celia. Do you think I know this case? Um, it's not your thing. Okay. So, no. Okay. Which means you're going to hate this even more.

Oh, good. Okay. So, the vast, vast, vast majority of this comes from my favorite website of all time, FamousTrials.com, run by Professor Douglas O. Linder at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. Love it. Also, it comes a little bit from Wikipedia. And I got to say, it seems like the Famous Trials website and the Wikipedia entry all kind of come from a book, which I didn't read, but I'm going to cite now. It seems to be the authority on this.

It's called Celia, a S slave by melton a mclaurin also a little bit from the washington post excellent here we go get it it was 1820 ish and a total shitbag named robert newsome and his whole shitbag family decided to move from virginia to missouri specifically they moved to Calloway County, Missouri. Never heard of it. Yeah, I hadn't either. It's along the Middle River, which I was like, did you? Also never heard of it.

I was like, did you mean Missouri River? No. Okay, it's the Middle River. This will mean nothing to people who aren't from around here, but it's a little north of Jefferson City. It's in Fulton. I mean, nothing? Nope.

Okay, it's in missouri you heard of the state of missouri all right great i'm currently in it so the new all up in it so the newsoms were living it up they had horses cows oxen hogs sheep 800 acres of land and slaves yep they owned people. Great. Just FYI, Fulton is kind of in the middle of Missouri. That's kind of what I was picturing. Because Jefferson City is right in the middle.

Right. Right. A little east of Columbia. Okay. So, yeah, they owned people. By 1850, Robert Newsom had enslaved five men. But I ask you, was that enough? Obviously not. You're already...

I already hate it. I already hate it. I'm slumped. I was going to say you already shrunk down. Let me change my... The second I said slavery, you were like... No. Because you see, in 1849,

his wife died. So now he needed a female slave uh-huh kristen this sounds like the worst case ever so full disclosure i have tried to do this one four times i stopped every time then my parents came home from a big rv trip my mom wanted to make pies with us yesterday and i was like okay i really want to do that if i'm gonna do that i need to hurry up and do a script on a case that i already know yeah and i'm sorry everybody i made pies with my mom um family time is important yeah and now here's this terrible story what kind of pie did you make okay so my mom and kyla made two pumpkin pies.

My mom made a pecan pie, and then she made a chocolate bourbon pecan pie, which I'm, like, dying. I helped Allie make sugar cookies. So, I mean, I say I helped with pies, but really, I got the fun job. When are you going to eat these pies? Thanksgiving, which happened... In the past. In the past past but it's happening in the future but it's you're stalling because you don't want to hear about i really i've

tried to distract you from the story it's not going to change the fact that i've got this story to tell so uh yeah robert decided that he needed a new woman in his life and um actually he needed to own yeah woman. And did I say woman? I guess that really wasn't what he wanted. He wanted a girl. Oh, yeah. So in the summer of 1850, Robert, who was in his fucking 70s. I don't know if I can handle it.

I know. Went over to a douche lord in Audreon County, Missouri. Brandy, you look like you're going to throw up. And he was like, oh, I'd like to buy one of your slaves, please. And the douche lord was likerey and county missouri brandy you look like you're gonna throw up and he was like oh i'd like to buy one of your slaves please and the douche lord was like well of course there's nothing terrifying with this conversation and so robert purchased a 14 year old girl named celia okay so also old-timey disclaimer you guys know the drill different sources say different things i don't think it matters. Either way, it's horrible. Some people say that he raped her on the way back to the farm.

Some people say he raped her immediately at the farm. Makes no difference. Yeah, it's horrible either way. So for the next five years, Robert raped Celia just whenever he wanted to. Oh my gosh. So he obviously lived in this nice big house. She was in a slave cabin, which was located like a little ways from the Newsome home. And yeah, whenever he wanted to rape someone, he'd just walk through the fruit trees to Celia's cabin.

Over the course of five years, he raped her many times and she became pregnant. It's unclear, times and she became pregnant it's unclear two maybe three times the first was in 1851 and another time don't know if it was the second or the third in 1855 but around that time with what was either her second or third pregnancy things got complicated celia fell in love with a man named george who was also enslaved by Robert Newsom. So Celia and George started spending a bunch of time together. But when George realized that she was pregnant, he told her, essentially, if you can't get that guy to stop raping you, then you and I are through. Wow. Because it's that easy.

Yeah. Oh, OK. No problem. I'll get right on that. I should have politely asked for him to stop what i mean i'm laughing at george but i feel sorry for george but i mean i feel more sorry for celia like what the fuck so celia was beside herself how do you get a gross old man who thinks he owns you and probably purchased you for the sole purpose of raping you to stop

raping you yeah seriously how do you fucking do it i have no idea okay so cilia wasn't sure either but she went to robert newsom's adult daughters mary and virginia and she asked them to help convince their father to stop forcing her which how-hmm. Which, how fucking gross is this? Yeah. That it was so normal that it was like, Yeah. Hey, we all know that your dad's raping me. Yeah.

Could you do me a solid and talk? Ask him to stop? Whoa! Oh, my gosh. So, who knows if Mary or Virginia said anything to their dad. But the bottom line was that he didn't stop. So, finally finally celia just tried pleading with him directly her message was basically can you please stop raping me

at the very least just while i'm pregnant and he was like nah then it's june 23rd 1855 by this point celia was getting real fucking tired of being raped. Probably also sick of being enslaved. But, you know, it can be both. Yeah. That day, Robert came up to her and was like, I'm coming to your cabin tonight. And she was like, if you do that, I will hurt you. Then? Yeah.

I can think of one way to keep him from raping her. Make him physically unable to. That's how she does. Wait for it. You're starting to perk up just a little bit. I am. Okay, so she gives him this warning. Then she went out and found a very big stick.

And she took it to her cabin. Brandy. And she kept it there. How big was it? I mean, this was a powerful stick might have been a tree she just uprooted a tree a whole tree okay that night robert came to her cabin at like 10 p.m and the second he walked in she moved away from him she pulled herself back into a corner near the stick he lunged toward her. She grabbed the stick.

She raised it as high as she could and she brought it crashing down on his head. He fell to the ground. It was like, owie. And then she hit him again. And that time she killed him. With two hits from a stick? I mean, he was in his 70s.

And I mean, 70s back in the 1800s. Yeah, that's true. That's like 120. Adjusted for inflation. We should adjust ages for inflation. So, I mean, there she was, an enslaved woman, a pregnant woman, who had just beaten her rapist slash owner in the eyes of the law to death. Oh, my gosh.

She was like, oh, shit. What am I going to do? Yeah. For like an hour. She just stood there trying to figure out, like, what the fuck do I do? Then she made a decision. She dragged Robert's dead body into her fireplace. She stayed up all night long, making sure his corpse burned completely.

In the wee hours of the morning, she gathered up all of his bones and smashed some of them against the hearthstones. So she did what she could to make the bones no longer look like bones, or at least not look like human bones. But some of the bones were too big or too hard to crack, so she hid them under the floorboards. Pretty soon, just before sun was about to rise, Celia gathered up some of the ashes that were in the fireplace, because, you know, there were, like, way too many ashes.

Yeah. Can you imagine how this smelled? No, I cannot cannot and i don't want to thank you keep on moving so she took some of the remember this when i get to my case okay don't give me that face so she took some of the ashes and dispersed them out in the yard. But there were still a ton of ashes, like way too many ashes. She'd burnt an entire man. Yeah. The next morning, everyone woke up. And the Newsom family was like, where's Dad?

Why isn't he at breakfast? People were kind of concerned. I mean, where could he have gone? There wasn't a trace of him anywhere. Celia was nervous as hell. Yeah. She had tons of ashes in her fireplace, and she needed to get rid of them now. She should have just flushed them down the toilet.

Why didn't she think of that? And then get in her car and drive away. That's right. So she went up to Robert's 12-year-old grandson, whose name was Coffee Wayne Scott. Coffee Wayne Scott? No, Coffee Wayne Scott. The second one. And she was like, hey, Coffee, I've got a bucket full of fireplace ashes.

Definitely not your dead grandpa. Don't even worry about it. Why don't you get rid of these ashes for me and i'll give you two dozen walnuts two dozen walnuts imagine is that the going rate i guess so and coffee was like sure so he took a bucket full of his dead rapist grandpa and he chucked him all over the property fast forward to the next day robert's family is just in a panic they were and they're like coffee where'd you get those fucking walnuts he just gobbled them right up they were like maybe he drowned so they searched along the water and the more they searched the bigger the search party became and people started

to think hey you know one of the downsides to owning people is they might want to kill you. Yeah. So people naturally suspected George. Everyone knew that George and Celia were in love, and obviously George couldn't have been happy about Robert constantly raping the woman he loved. So maybe George killed him. Possibly. So this guy named William Powell, who owned a nearby farm and also was a

slave owner so great guy can't be anything wrong with this dude questioned george under what authority exactly the white man's authority i guess and i say questioned and it's like the amount of information they got out of george to me shows that like it was not like oh hey buddy you know they tortured him for information exactly exactly so George didn't come out and say Celia did this but he was he said something hang on let me let me find it okay he said that he believed that the last time he'd seen Robert walking was like down that way and he pointed to the path that led to the slave cabins and so then people were like oh did celia do this did celia murder robert they rushed to celia's cabin but they didn't find anything yeah naturally so they went into the newsome kitchen where celia

was cooking and they lied to her. They made it seem as though George had told, you know, everything. They were like, oh, just, you know, just go ahead and confess. We know the whole deal. Just go ahead. But she was like, no, I don't know anything. I didn't do anything. And they said, we'll take away your kids if you don't tell us what happened. and she's like i didn't didn't do anything don't know anything and they're like we'll hang you if you don't tell us and i mean she wasn't an idiot so she's like no this this reminds me of like the salem witch trial shit like if she's not a witch then she'll drown when we toss her into the ocean it's like well great

glory and death i guess but even though Celia was denying everything, they kind of knew. I mean, yeah, they knew he went to her cabin that night and blah, blah, blah. So she said, OK, OK, he did come to my cabin. And yeah, I didn't want him there. He wanted sex. I didn't want that. You all know I didn't want that. I talked to you all about it, But he never technically came into my cabin. What? He just kind of poked his head in and then I hit him over the head with a stick and he fell back.

And that was the last time I saw him. I don't know anything else. That's not a bad strategy. Yeah, I mean, if you feel like they already know something, then... Yeah. I mean, it's not bad. But they kept pressing and pressing and pressing. And again, I'm sure the questioning was fucking horrible.

And finally, Celia told William Powell, Look, I'll tell you what happened, but I'm not going to tell you with the man's children in the room. So Robert's son, David and Harry, left the room. What about Harry and David? I know. I actually switched the order because I thought it was too silly. the room so robert's son david and harry left the room what about harry and david i know i actually switched the order because i thought it was too silly they grabbed their moose munch and they left the room and the funny thing was that's where this ends because everyone followed the moose munch they're just human you know everyone loves moose munch people have never heard harry and

david are like what the fuck are they talking about? Okay, have people never been to an outlet mall? You know, that is the one thing we did not include in our trip to Branson. I know. We stopped, well, we did include us stopping at the outlet mall. Yes. Norm, do you want to tell the people what wonderful things happened to you at that outlet mall? Uh, I got

wide shoes. Life changing. You guys, he didn't know he was a wide. What? I don't want... I he was a wide. I don't want to say a wide. I'm sorry. Well, whenever I would buy shoes, they would always bust out the side. My feet would bust the sides out. And I recently discovered. Because I'm just so wide.

And I recently discovered they make wide shoes. So I bought a pair of wide shoes. For his girth. For my girth. Stop it, Brandy. Of his feet. Brandy, stop. My girthy feet.

You know what? The listeners aren't going to know that we cut a terribly disgusting joke that I made about you. Because your parents listened to this. And yet here you are, talking about my husband's girth. Of his feet. How dare you insinuate I'm talking about something else, Kristen. I wonder if Harry and David is an international brand. Because our international listeners might not wonder if Harry and David is an international brand, because our international listeners

might not know about Harry and David. Well, aren't they getting an education right now? Also, some people might not know about wide shoes, and now they know. Now they know. Shoes come in wide. But at the Zala Mall, there was a Harry and David store, and they sell this delicious mixture called Moose Munch. It's caramel

popcorn, some chocolates, and... It's delicious sorry delicious yeah and they have different flavors like they had like a peppermint flavor that was pretty good yeah it was good it was good yeah they have a peanut butter they have a classic are we on npr right now i was gonna say i earlier as you were talking i i faked like I was falling asleep. I love these sweaty balls. I could just listen to Norman talk about the varieties of moose munch for days. Well, you asked me what happened at the outlet mall. I was telling you. Yeah, I was expecting a more tight story.

What else did you get there? Got some joggers. Norman and David got, were they matching joggers? I'm wearing my joggers right now, actually. They did get matching joggers. You know, they always say ladies be shopping, but these dudes. These fellas. Yeah.

Got myself a new coat. Woo. Uh-huh. Woo. Yeah, good times at the Branson Outlet Mall. All right. Okay, anyway, that was a promo. Use promo code LGTC.

It's time you're at any outlet mall. Shout it at the person at the register. Shout, let's go to court. And if they don't give you 10% off, I don't know, I don't know what to tell you. So, blah, blah, blah,

blah, blah. She's like, oh, Harry and David. Okay, yeah. So Harry and David leave the room with their mousse munch and Celia told William

Powell the whole story. Once they had her confession, they went and investigated and sure enough, they found ashes where she said they would be confession they went and investigated and sure enough they found ashes where she said they would be they found the bones under the floorboard they found robert's belt buckle and pocket knife which were a little worse for the wear because they had burn marks all over them yeah you know now it's june 25th okay I just am amazed. This is a court podcast, which means she's going to get a trial.

I can't believe that. I assumed they would just hang her immediately. Well, let's see. Okay. Now it's June 25th. Keep in mind, she killed him on the evening of June 23rd. Yes. Did they waste time in the olden days?

No. No, they did not. David Newsome, a.k.a., you know, Harry of the David. Yes. Yeah. That sounded biblical, didn't it? Yeah. So he's the son of the dead douche lord.

Was like, I must have justice for my father. So they gathered two justices of the peace and six white dudes and bada bing, bada boom. They had an inquest jury. P.S. This whole thing took place at the newsome home which i think is the weirdest thing ever but i don't know i guess there was a shortage of buildings so there were three witnesses the first was william powell and he was like yep celia confessed to me and i'm the head of the search party thanks so much i'm really enjoying this

and then came coffee wayne scott robert's grandson and coffee was like wait his last name was wayne scott yeah wayne's like wayne scotting yeah yeah he invented it oh damn it hold on sorry i've been waiting for us to talk about wayne scotting on the podcast i mean you guys have beautiful wayne scotting some people pronounce it wayne scoting i think it's wayne scotting yeah i agree brandy no one pronounced it i've heard it pronounced that way yeah wayne Some people pronounce it Wayne Scotting. I think it's Wayne Scotting. Yeah. I agree, Brandy. No one pronounced it Wayne. I've heard it pronounced that way. Really? Yeah, Wayne Scotting.

Okay. Yeah. Invented by Harry, no, Coffee Wayne Scotting. So, yeah, Coffee's like, yeah, apparently I took a bucket full of grandpa's ashes and threw them all around in exchange for some walnuts. I didn't know at the time. I got two dozen walnuts. I didn't know it at the time. I got two dozen walnuts. Feeling real weird about it now.

Then came Celia. She told everyone that, yes, she had killed Robert Newsome, but she didn't mean to kill him. When she hit him with that stick, she just wanted to hurt him. She wanted to make him stop. The inquest jury was like, uh, sounds like this lady needs to go on trial. She clearly, willfully, and feloniously murdered the dear departed Robert Newsome.

I love the word felonious. Why? I just love it. Just enjoy saying it? Yeah, that's a fun word. You want an opportunity? Go for it. Felononious so they took celia to the calloway county jail but the whole time people were kind of like do we really buy this story could she really have beaten a man to death and hidden his body all by herself oh no Some people were certain that George played a role in all of this. But Celia said no. She'd acted alone. Okay, so pause. What do we think?

No, I don't think she acted alone. I bet George helped her and she's protecting him. She probably thinks she has a better chance of not being put to death. An enslaved woman in 1855 in Missouri? I mean, yeah, maybe better. Great chance. Okay. I, okay. For the longest time, I was like, there's no way she did this alone. But then I found out that he was in his seventies. Yeah. But you really think that she was able to put him in her fireplace all by herself?

Maybe. I mean. How big's this fireplace? I don't, that, that's the other thing. I mean, it's a slave cabin. It couldn't have been big, right? So she's got to like, you know, roll them up like a pinwheel. And then. Oh God, like a cinnamon roll. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking like one of those, you know, where you put like the, you mix the cream

cheese and the salsa together and then you put it on a tortilla and then you roll it up. Oh, that's very Midwestern. Yeah. Pinwheels yes you really don't think it's possible i think it's possible that she could have done it alone okay you you think it's the disposing of the body i think it's the disposing of the body that she did not do alone i think it's very possible that she hit him over the head and he died yeah but then i think in

that moment she without a doubt would have gone and gotten George to help her. Okay. What do I do? How do I handle this? Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. Okay. So Celia went on trial and things were tense. It was 1855. So the Civil War wasn't here yet, but it was a brewing.

Yeah. And the general attitude of white people in Missouri was slavery's the best. How dare anyone tell us that we're a bunch of dicks? So Celia was tried by a jury of her peers. Excuse me. Celia was tried by a jury of white men. I was going to say, they got a bunch of other slave women up there. Oh, yeah, it was super fair.

It's America, Brandy. We love justice. So all of these guys were farmers. Some of them owned slaves. So, we're off to a great start. How could this be bad for Celia at all? Yeah. Judge William Hall appointed Celia an attorney named John Jameson.

Inventor of Jameson Whiskey. Oh, sure. Yeah. Lots of inventors. A fault in this case. John was considered a pretty good lawyer and not a bad slave owner what she got a slave owner as her lawyer yeah okay so believe it or not believe it or not i'm walking on air thank you never thought I could be so free. Okay, Brady. Where could I be?

Norman is looking at us. What's the name of that song? I'll add it to the list. So even though this is clearly a terrible pick for Celiaia it was considered kind of fair at the time because yeah at the time but even then i guess it was considered fine because even though john jameson had slaves i guess he wasn't super flashy about it and he wasn't like going out into the community being pro-slavery but i'm thinking like if you have slaves you are pro-slavery give me a fucking break yes so anyway the first witness was this guy named jefferson jones jefferson had interviewed celia when she was in jail and he said yep she told me everything

here's how she killed him here's how she disposed of the body and then celia's defense attorney was like okay but just to be clear, she also told you that he had raped her just constantly, right? And the dude was like, yeah. Yeah. Might have mentioned it. And also Celia said that she never intended to kill him, right? She just wanted to hurt him. And the dude was like, yeah. Then the prosecution called one of Robert's daughters and they called, poor little coffee, and they called William Powell, the search party leader.

And when he told them the whole story, the defense got up and was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, but you know he was a super rapist, right? And the guy was like, did they use the term super rapist? I'm using it. And I'm realizing that maybe super,

well, you guys get what I mean. He was an extraordinary rapist. Does that know what you meant? No. Celia talked to a whole bunch of people trying to get him to stop, but he wouldn't, right? We all know this. Yeah. Yeah.

And the confession you got out of her. How'd you do that? Did you threaten to take her kids away? My bad. Yeah. And the confession you got out of her. How'd you do that? Did you threaten to take her kids away? My God, yeah. Did you threaten to hang her if she didn't talk? Yeah. Because I know it's 1855 and all, but we've got standards and shit. Yeah.

And again, even when she did tell you what supposedly happened, she was perfectly clear that she never set out to kill him right and william had to be like yeah right but shut up then the defense took over and they called two witnesses they started with a doctor named james martin and the defense's whole strategy was just to get this doctor to shut what creator of doc martin my God. You're so proud of yourself. You should have seen the way you lit up when that idea came to your mind. So the whole strategy was to get this doctor to shed some doubt on whether she could have done this by herself. At one point, the defense attorney was like, hey, hey, can a simple standard fireplace really burn an entire adult body in like six hours which i mean that seems

like a fair question that is a fair question i feel like uh but the prosecution objected and the judge sustained it what i know so the defense like try it again like you know i don't know moving a the around or doing whatever but every time the prosecution objection and the judge sustained you know it's just a mess. So then finally the defense was like, well, fuck it. Okay, I guess I'm going to lose on this point. Then the defense called another man

who had interviewed Celia in jail. Oh, timeout pause. Celia, as a slave, could not be called as a witness. Wow. Yep. She couldn't even choose to testify at her own trial? So that part I should have written down.

I believe, first of all, slaves were not allowed to be called as witnesses because they were considered unreliable. Yeah, yeah. Which is great. Right. But I believe at the time in Missouri there was a law against a defendant testifying in their own defense, which seems very odd again. But whatever. Yeah. This was an odd time.

Right. Did I say odd? I meant horrible. Yes. Okay. So they're questioning this other guy who had interrogated Celia in jail. And the man said that Celia had told him that after she hit Robert the first time, he reached back to hit her.

So this is huge. Yeah. But the prosecution was like, ha ha ha ha, objection! And the judge sustained it. Wow. And then the judge turned to the jury of white dudes and was like, boys, please ignore that evidence that Celia was acting in her own defense. Wow.

Yeah. So with that, the defense rested its case. What the defense was hoping for was that the jury would find Celia not guilty on the grounds that she had only killed Robert because she was in imminent danger of being raped. Fair enough. Women had a right to do that. Okay, so here's the exact wording of the rape law at that time. It was a crime, quote, to take any woman unlawfully against her will and by force, menace, or duress, compel her to be defiled. So in that case, a woman could fight back. And you know, if the guy got killed, too bad, so sad, he was trying to rape her. That's self-defense. So Celia's defense team was like, all right, the law says you can't take any woman by force. Celia's a woman. Think we're done here.

Yeah, you're rolling your eyes. Yeah, because they're not going to see her as a woman. They're seeing her as property. Exactly. Yeah. So that's what this all came down to. The big question was, did an enslaved woman have the same right to self-defense that any other woman would? Well, don't worry. The judge cleared up that question real quick. Yeah. He was like, hey, jury, here's the deal. You're not allowed to ask yourselves what Celia's motive was for this murder.

Who cares? You're also not allowed to think about her level of culpability. And self-defense. No, sir. Wow. Can you fucking imagine? No, I cannot. Who cares why she did it? Like, no, no, why she did it is absolutely relevant. Yes. Okay. Here's the worst part. Here's exactly what the judge told the jury. If Newsom was in the habit of having intercourse with the defendant, who was his slave and went to her cabin on the night he the habit of having intercourse with the defendant who was his slave and went to her cabin on the night he was killed to have intercourse with her or for

any other purpose, and while he was standing in the floor talking to her, she struck him with a stick, which was a dangerous weapon, and knocked him down and struck him again after he fell and killed him by either blow, it is murder in the first degree oh my god that's his instruction to the jury wow so it's like let me let me go ahead and just check that box for you i'll decide this for you yeah no need for a jury that really says something about their case if like they've got a jury of white dudes many of them are slave owners and they're like hold on hold on Let's not mess this up. What do you think they found? I think they found her guilty. Yeah, of course. They

found her guilty of first degree murder. Not that they had any other choice with instructions like that. Okay. But the next day, the defense was like, you know what? She deserves a new trial. What happened here was pure bullshit. i have very complicated feelings toward this defense attorney i hate that he owned slaves but at the same time it was like he did he did appear to fight for her so they requested a new trial for a few reasons but one of them being judge hall's ridiculous yeah you know instructions to the jury guess who got to decide whether the judge and i he was like uh wait let me check no this trial was just fine gee do i think i did a bad job no the answer is no so uh he took one day to think it over said no and then he was

like oh by the way celia you're gonna be hanged on november 16th 1855 but the defense kept going they were like we have to appeal this thing. So they submitted an appeal to the Missouri Supreme Court. But here's the thing. Her trial ended on, like, I think October 10th, and she was scheduled to die November 16th. So they went to the judge, and they were like, hey, judge, could you please issue a stay of execution? We just, you know, if it's not too much trouble, can you not kill her before we hear back from the Supreme Court? And the judge was like, but I already filled out the paperwork. So the judge said no.

He would not put her execution on hold. While she waited to die, Celia gave birth to a stillborn child. Her defense team was freaking out. Every day they were waiting for this decision from the Supreme Court, but nothing came. Every day they were waiting for this decision from the Supreme Court, but nothing came. Finally, on November 11th, five days before her execution, someone sprung her out of jail. What? It's not clear who did it. I was like, well, maybe if I keep Googling.

Someone did it. Don't know who. I suspect the defense team. Someone did it. Someone, okay. Don't know who. I suspect the defense team. But anyway, toward the end of November, someone, again, not sure who, brought Celia back to jail. Wow.

And that same awful judge gave her a new execution date. That day? December 21st. Oh. But the defense team seemed kind of happy. I mean, they'd at least bought themselves some time. Then on December 14th, the Missouri Supreme Court made its decision. They'd reviewed Celia's case, Brandy, your face,

and found she had no probable cause for her appeal. Ugh. Yeah. That's fucking terrible. Celia was murdered by the state of Missouri on on december 21st 1855 oh my gosh yeah i wasn't sure how to end this one wikipedia had a good ending for it and it's by this this scholar who pointed out that like women who were enslaved at that time like had no right to anything had no right to like even just not be raped yeah their own bodies all of a sudden

when they're accused of a crime they have they're treated exactly held yeah yeah you know what i'm trying to say boy i should have written that quote down no it's excellent okay also i have um i guess a fun fact. I don't know. Hold on. Norm? Yeah? Get your calculator out. What's 1895 minus 37?

1858. Hmm. Okay, then. Okay, bottom line. I'm going to go ahead and say this anyway. After I did this case, I was like, ugh, this fucking sucks. But I was also thinking, you know what's weird is that like the descendants of this guy the defendant is the descendants of celia like all these people are probably still around here still in missouri yeah and so i was like i wonder

what happened to them what'd you find well i went on newspapers.com and the reason i asked norman about the dates was they don't really add up. But according to this newspaper article, in 1895, Robert's son, David, who was 37 years old at the time, which this doesn't add up, but maybe, I don't know. Anyway, was running around with a loaded gun in his pocket and he fell and shot himself and he died instantly. Wow. And the newspaper wrote about it saying that he had been the son of Robert Newsome. Yeah. And I'm quoting here, one of Fulton's most estimable citizens. Estimable.

They wrote it estimable. Okay. I hated that case. I did too. And I'm sorry sorry that was terrible what i hated about it most was i remember the first time i read it going oh my god oh my god like loving that she fucking murdered this guy yeah loving that she disposed of the body everything and then you know when she got sprung out of jail it's like oh my god please and then no no she was executed thank you yeah i know i love

that sorry everybody great ending hey the story of robert's dumb son shooting himself that's not bad right yeah i guess oh no i have such a dark one why Why did we have it? Well, no, we don't plan ahead. Sometimes these happen, guys. Sorry. Mine is super recent. Oh, it's a case that just wrapped up in Colorado. I hate recent ones. I hate recent dark ones.

I should say that. Yeah, and it's bad. But let's talk about the disappearance of Kelsey Barrett. OK. And it's bad. But let's talk about the disappearance of Kelsey Barrett. Okay. In November of 2018, 29-year-old Kelsey Barrett seemingly disappeared without a trace from Woodland Park, Colorado, which is about 30 minutes northwest of Colorado Springs.

Kelsey had a fiance, Patrick Frazee, who she couldn't wait to marry. She had a one-year-old daughter, an amazing job as a pilot and flight instructor. There were no indications of any problems or struggles in her life. She had a one-year-old daughter, an amazing job as a pilot and flight instructor. There were no indications of any problems or struggles in her life. And those close to her said that she would never just take off. Simple as that. She'd never leave her daughter. In fact, she'd never gone anywhere without telling her mom.

The story that I'm going to tell you about today is about the search for Kelsey. And what I believe is a testament to some amazing fucking police work in Colorado. Because while this case is tragic, and I'll warn you now, it does not have a happy ending. I think it is unbelievable that Kelsey Barrett disappeared, as of this recording time, one year and two days ago. And this thing is already wrapped up damn yeah her age 29 29 okay so this whole thing kind of started on december 2nd of 2018 kelsey's mom called the police and asked to do a welfare check on her her name is cheryl lee barrett and she said that she had not been able to get in contact with her daughter for several days. And this was very out of the norm. The last time she had physically spoken to her on the phone was Thanksgiving, which was November 22nd.

After that date, she'd had like a couple of text messages from her. But that was it. So they start kind of checking and doing some basic checks. They start kind of checking and doing some basic checks. And it turns out that Kelsey's employer had gotten a text message from Kelsey, like, on Thanksgiving Day or the day after Thanksgiving and said that she was going to need to take the next week off. And they said this was super out of character for her. Like, she wouldn't just text that in. Well, and super last minute. I mean, in any profession yeah kind of

weird but she was a great employee and so they'd kind of you know been like okay you know whatever you need but as they're kind of like looking through this it turns out that really the last time anyone spoke to Kelsey was on Thanksgiving Day yeah so of course they go to her fiance Patrick Frazee and they share a daughter they have have a one year old daughter, but they did not live together. Patrick lived near like, Florissant, Colorado is not far from Woodland Park, but he had a big cattle ranch there. It's like a 35 acre ranch. And he worked on the property and whatever, by all accounts seemed to have a really good relationship. They were moving towards marriage, they'd been engaged, and they were very lovey and whatever, but they'd never lived together. Kelsey had their daughter at her home in Woodland Park and they, you know, made it work. Yeah. They checked her cell phone records and saw that around

that same time. So nobody spoke to her after Thanksgiving Day, which was November 22nd. And then the last, there were text messages over the next few days. But the last text message came on November 25th. So three days after Thanksgiving, and the ping on her phone, like pinged a tower in Gooding, Idaho, which is like 800 miles from her home. And so police are like, yeah, this is pretty weird. So all of this. Did the text sound like her? You know, I don't. I don't know. I think they were very basic text messages. Okay, gotcha.

And so, yeah, enough for people not really to question it at first until they stopped altogether. And Patrick says the same thing. They actually had gotten into some kind of argument on Thanksgiving and they decided to take some time apart. And then essentially like taking a break or something like that. And then the last he had heard from her was a text message on the 25th. So police get all of that kind of preliminary information. They go to her home and it's empty, but it seems to be in like a normal state. You know, nothing's missing, her toothbrush and all of that's there.

But it looks like no one has been in her home for several days at this time. They are thinking that she has not been home since Thanksgiving. Yeah. By December 3rd, so the next day, they put out the first like, notice to the public that there's this 29 year old missing mother and that they need people's help. Yeah. The following day, so December 5th, a kind of a task force is put together, just like a group of people start a Facebook page. And it's called Missing Mother Kelsey Barrett. And it's like people putting in any kind of tips, any information, any spottings,

and just like a little grassroots effort to get any information out about where she might be. They talk about what she was last seen wearing and all of that. And again, it's made a big deal about how this is very out of character for her. At first, a bunch of speculation comes forward that she's a pilot. She has access to planes. Maybe she needed a break and she. Well, I know just because you're a pilot doesn't mean you can just take. Well, and that's exactly it. Like this is what when all of

this is coming out, her family is like. Can you imagine? Yeah. Her family's like, OK, she does not own a plane, nor do we have any friends she could borrow one from. And she has never in all of her years flying ever made a flight without filing a flight plan because it's just not safe. She would not do it. No, that's crazy. Can you imagine if every pilot could just take whatever plane they wanted? Give me a break. Yeah. And then people are like, well,

she could have rented a plane. And they're like, yes, we realize that it is possible that she could have rented a plane. But at this point, that's just, you know, someone, someone would have noticed it missing by now. Well, and as if you wouldn't just book a flight on Southwest, you're a 29 year old mom, like, give me a break. Yeah. Okay. So prayer vigils are put together and flyers are going up everywhere. And this becomes national news pretty quickly that this mother is missing and her daughter is in the custody of the father. They had like traded off. Thank God. Yes. They had like traded off for whatever reason she met him that day and given the baby to him and whatever so it's

only her that's missing but there's just no sign of her whatsoever and how why is her phone pinging in Idaho 800 miles away well obviously because she stole a plane she stole a plane and flew to Idaho that's the only logical explanation so on Monday December 10th so this is more than a week after the initial welfare check and almost two weeks since she's gone missing. They put together like a press conference. It's the Woodland Park Police Department. They're joined by Kelsey's mother, Cheryl Lee, and they get up and talk about everything that they know, which is essentially nothing at this point. They've checked all the planes locally and nobody's missing a plane. So

everybody can quit with that. There's no indication that Kelsey flew anywhere. But can you imagine how frustrating that would be as a family member? Oh, yeah. To have to entertain dumb shit like that. Yeah. Something of note that happens at this press conference. Someone is very noticeably not there who kelsey's fiance patrick does not come to the press conference and so at the press conference when they're saying you know we don't have a suspect we don't have anything at this point people are asking like where's patrick yeah it's always the dude where's the dude yeah and so the media asks why why he's not present and like the chief of police is like that's a question you'd have to ask him.

He is cooperating with the investigation. I can't tell you why he's not here today. Because he had been very forthcoming. He had volunteered up his cell phone for them to check his call records. It was just odd that he didn't come to this press conference and people thought it was odd. Yeah. His fiance's missing. Why is he not?

Why the hell would you not be there? Yeah. Unless you wouldn't, well, they have an infant, right? Okay. Then there goes that theory. I was thinking if the kid was kind of old enough to understand what was going on, maybe you would want to stay home with the kid and not be there. Right. But an infant's not going to know. was going on. Maybe you would want to stay home with the kid and not be there. Right. But an infant's not going to know.

No. Okay. At this time, Cheryl Lee takes a moment to make a statement about Kelsey and just kind of do a personal plea for anyone who might know anything. And she says, I'd just like to talk to you a little bit about Kelsey.

She's not the kind that runs off. This is completely out of character. Kelsey loves God. She loves her family and friends. She loves her job. She's reliable, considerate, and honest. She doesn't run off and someone knows where she is. So that big press conference happens and they, you know, mention they want tips. If anybody could come forward, they hint that maybe there will be a reward for information, but nothing is officially set up as far as reward at this point. The following day, they release the last known footage of Kelsey. So this is like the last time she was seen in public and she was entering a Safeway grocery store. And she's like seen going in the store, putting her infant's car seat in the cart and then like going into the store. And that was either on Thanksgiving Day or

the day before Thanksgiving. And this is the last time she was seen publicly like they've checked, you know, all of her records and bank accounts and whatever. And as far as they can tell, this is the last time she was seen out in public. You know, the next day, Cheryl is doing what she can as a mother to just get this story out there. She's going on like every media source and doing interviews and just pleading for her daughter's safe return,

which we've talked about this before. Like it's a great strategy to get the press involved, get the word out there, get as much coverage as you can. And she did great with this because this story went nationwide. The whole country was looking for Kelsey. And again, she reiterates, you know, she has never gone anywhere and not told me. She did not go somewhere willingly.

Someone has done something to her. Someone has taken her. Yeah. Someone knows where she is. Again, questions come up about the fiance and Cheryl is very protective of him. She's like, their relationship is good. They're loving. You know, they didn't live together, but their relationship worked for them. And, you know, he's completely cooperating with the investigation.

You know, he's completely cooperating with the investigation. You know, we completely believe that this is somebody else who did this. Okay. And at this point, there's been all this speculation because Patrick didn't come to the press conference. And so he has gotten an attorney. And an attorney comes out and makes this public statement about him. And he says, you know, he is completely cooperating with this investigation. He volunteered up his cell phone. He gave that to investigators.

He gave his DNA. Like, the only reason he wasn't at that press conference is because he found out about it an hour beforehand. He could not make it there. So everybody back off my client. Really? I mean, yeah. OK.

Yeah. He said, had he been given more notice, he absolutely would have been there. And just so you know, he wants to be here. He wants to be making statements. And I have told him that that's not in his best interest. Okay. So I am making statements for him. Okay. What do you think about that? I think that's a great thing for an attorney to say. And if it's true, it's even better. Yeah. Yeah. The next thing that would happen in this case would just shine an even bigger light on Patrick Frazee. It did not look good for him. Okay. The police executed a search warrant at his home. So his ranch, and they like

didn't give him any warning. They went in. Well, sure. They're not gonna be like, hey, you want to clean stuff up. They cut the lock off of his property and they just went in there. He was allowed to be there at the property. Like they let him come, but they didn't ask like his permission and they didn't wait for him to let them in. Well, yeah, you never would. It surprises me that he was allowed to be there. Yeah, and I don't know if he was like allowed to be in his home at the time of the search or physically on the property, if he was just allowed to be like there at the gate.

But he was present to some degree, but he was not given the option to voluntarily participate. They didn't say, can we come search her home? And he was like, yeah, absolutely. Search away. They didn't give him the option. Do they normally? Yeah. A lot of times.

Really? I think that's crazy. Yeah. A lot of times they're like, hey, can we come? You mind if we come in and take a look around? Oh, OK. I see what you mean. They just show up and ask. Yeah. OK. OK. Yeah. They didn't do any of that. They just brought in a search warrant. And yeah. So at this time, his attorney makes another statement. This is what he said. We encourage law enforcement to take whatever steps it deems necessary to find Kelsey Barrett and to be able to exclude Patrick Frazee as a possible suspect in this missing persons investigation. Mr. Frazee will continue not to participate in any interviews with the media and instead focus on parenting the child he shares with Miss Barrett. What do you

think, Kristen? You're making quite a face over there. You've burned me too many times, ma'am. This is episode, what, 98? Yeah. Yeah. You've gotten me a few times where I've called somebody a douchebag on accident and it turns out they're totally a sweet guy. Yeah. He's just trying to be a dad to his daughter. He's trying to, you know, he's trying to help the investigation in whatever way he can. I mean, that all sounds good. Yeah. But it's always the guy. It's always the guy. Right. But are they focusing on the wrong person? Well, you got to focus on him first and to exclude him. Right. I mean, you focus on the people most likely to have done it. Yeah, that's probably true. But then again, like, I mean, shouldn't it be pretty be pretty simple like did his cell phone ping out in fucking idaho i don't know but you'll tell me i guess we'll find

out so this search of this 35 acre property the search goes on for a couple days good great and they take a bunch of stuff but they don't ever release what it was that they found or anything like that was it just some cool shit that they yeah they were like what it was that they found or anything like that was it just some cool shit that they yeah they were like oh i want that a comic book but on sunday december 16th so this is a couple days like they've completed the search a couple days have gone by and they do another press conference and say you know they're not any closer to finding kelsey or knowing what happened to her and so this is when they officially announce a $25,000 reward for any information leading to her or the arrest of someone. This reward comes from an

anonymous donor. Like somebody just put this $25,000 up and said, please put this out as a reward. Wow. Yeah. Okay. A couple days later, the police show up at Patrick's property again and execute another search warrant. They said, you know, this is just a routine follow up. See if we missed anything. By this time, the press is like going nuts with this. They're like, it's the fiance. It's the fucking fiance.

Look, the police have been there for days and days and days. They're like, no, this is just, you know, a routine follow up. There's, you know, nothing to see here, folks. Yeah. And all of the warrant information is sealed from the press. So they can't see what led to the search warrant being executed. They can't see anything that was found. They can't see anything that was specifically listed as being able to be searched. Just a lot of speculation going on. Okay. So the whole fucking world's like, well guy did it obviously but people are

coming to his defense a couple of friends come forward including this one woman named sonja oliver she said that she'd known patrick for five years she spoke to inside edition i'm sure for some money or just you know a little spotlight but she said i've always considered him to be a gentle soul soft-sp spoken and just really down to earth and practical. I couldn't imagine him doing anything that would harm anyone. So then the inside edition people like ask her if she believes that there was any way that he could have anything to do with Kelsey's disappearance. And she said, I just can't imagine Patrick doing anything like that. She's just not him. They ask him about what

she knows about their relationship. And she said, you know, like most relationships, it had its ups and downs. But for the most part, it was a great relationship. The last search warrant was executed on December 18th of 2018. On December 21st, 2018, Patrick Frazee was taken into custody. Oh, my God. And charged with first degree murder and solicitation of murder. Oh, my God. Are you shocked? Well, yeah, because you were. It's always the fiance, Kristen.

The way you said it, you're like, a lot of people suspected the fiance. And anytime you're like, oh, everyone thought this, it's always dun-da-dun, someone else. Did they have the wrong guy? So this time, the police chief of Woodland Park makes another statement. And he says, we've arrested Patrick Frazee. We've charged him with first degree murder and solicitation to commit murder which do you know what that means solicitation to commit murder is like you paid somebody he tried to hire someone to kill her and then he says sadly we do not believe kelsey is alive, but we've not yet located her body. Oh.

At this point, the police kind of let the public in on what's been going on behind the scenes that led to the search warrant and all of that. They said they conducted multiple interviews that gave them enough information to implicate Patrick Frazee in her death and obtain a warrant for his arrest. They also, at this this point because he still had custody of the one-year-old oh my god that's terrifying one-year-old daughter was placed in protective custody and then given to kelsey's parents right after like i mean she just like immediately was yeah placed with kelsey's parents this would become a big deal patrick's parents and kelsey's parents to this day are fighting over who gets custody of their one-year-old daughter. Okay, you don't get to raise another one. That's my verdict there. So shortly after this announcement, the authorities in Twin Falls, Idaho, which is near

where the cell phone pinged, announced that they had been working with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and the FBI, and that they had all worked together to prepare and serve several search warrants that led to evidence leading to this arrest. So what led to them being able to tell that Patrick Frazee had something to do with this? It was the search of his cell phone records that linked in somebody else into this case. LinkedIn. Is that a clue? Did he find someone on LinkedIn? Did he look up Hinton?

No. So as they're searching his cell phone records, they see all of this communication with Kelsey. And when they're looking at the pings that are happening, every time the two phones are connecting, they are connecting on the same tower. So after even after Kelsey was last seen, she's still texting and calling Patrick. But all of those calls and texts come through on the same tower that his phone is connected to people are dumb very dumb it's traveling the exact same route that his his phone is traveling when he's driving from woodland park to florissant yeah and then he's got communications with someone else a woman in idaho named crystal

kenny who he's had a sexual relationship with for the last three years, five years. They've known each other for a decade. Great. Yeah. Great. Yep. And wouldn't you know it, there are several times when her phone is pinging on the same

tower that Kelsey's phone is. Oh, geez. And she lives in Idahoaho did she do this so they they sit her down and they ask her a bunch of questions about why her phone would have pinged from kelsey's home in woodland park fair question why kelsey's phone would have pinged on the same tower as hers in idaho uh-huh. And immediately she clams up. Sure.

And it's like, I'll tell you everything, but I want a deal. Oh. And they give her a deal because they're like, this person is going to be the key to being able to solve this case. Yeah. And so she becomes their star witness. They give her a deal. They let her plead guilty to like one count of tampering with evidence. And then she tells them everything. She and Patrick had been in a relationship for years.

He had been cheating on Kelsey with her. She had been married for part of the time and then she got divorced but was still living with her ex-husband in Idaho. Why do people do this? It's unbelievable to me. And so a year prior to all this happening, Patrick had started asking her to help him get rid of Kelsey. She was a nurse, and so she had access to lots of drugs and stuff. And so he asked her to give him something that he could poison Kelsey, or if she could come and poison Kelsey and just get rid of her and all this stuff. And she refused to do any of that. But she stayed in this relationship with him. How at the very least, how the fuck do you stay in a relationship with someone who's trying to

murder their other partner? Right? Right. How fucking dumb do you have to be? So and they asked her about this later on. And she says, you know, at first they were in love. And then it became a part where she felt like if she stopped participating, she feared for her own life. She knew too much. She was too far in. And initially she thought the conversations were hypothetical. No, she didn't.

I don't think she did either. I totally don't. So why tell him no if you think it's all hypothetical yeah so she says that she became aware that a homicide had occurred on thanksgiving day 2018 november 22nd god this is recent yeah she said that patrick called her and said you need to get to Kelsey's house. You've got some cleaning up to do. Ew, what? Yeah. And so she did. What the hell?

She went, she drove to Kelsey's house and Patrick was there. He let her in and she said she walked in the house and there was fucking blood everywhere. It was on the ceiling, walls, doors, floors. What the fuck? Patrick told her what he had done. floors what the f- Patrick told her what he had done he said that he had come into the house while Kelsey was there

and he had gotten her to let him blindfold her under the guise that he was going to have her smell scented candles and see if she could guess what the scent was oh this guy is so awful and then once he blindfolded her

he hit her repeatedly with a baseball bat until she was dead. Oh, my God. While their one-year-old child was in a playpen in the back of the house. Oh. And so this woman hears this story and is like, oh, that's fine. I brought a mop. So she puts on basically a hazmat suit and gloves and a hairnet and she spends the next day two days cleaning the apartment or the home i'm sorry it is a it's a house but it's in

like a community because the surveillance footage would become a thing okay but cleaning the house from top to bottom removing every bit of blood evidence from it. Wow. She told police that she was not sure what Patrick had done with the body. She had never seen it, but she was pretty sure that he had put it in a large tote in the back of his truck and taken it to his property and burned it in like a water trough. and burned it in like a water trough. And that she had feared if she stopped helping him,

if she stopped any involvement, if she... Why not stay in fucking Idaho? How about that? Right, how about not fucking come? Yeah. Yeah. When the guy who's been talking to you about murdering someone says, hey, you've got something to clean up,

you don't show up. You don't show up. You call the cops. Yes. So a friend of hers had borrowed her car for the weekend to like move because she had a truck so she drove to colorado in a friend's car and then took took kelsey's cell phone back with her and like disposed of it in idaho somewhere okay yeah okay so as part of this plea deal, this woman, Crystal Kinney, is not allowed to give any interviews to the media. She cannot speak to the media at all.

What was her deal again that shot for all this? So she got to plead guilty to one count of like tampering with evidence. So she's an accessory to murder. Yeah. So she was facing up to life in prison. Yes. And she gets... Jack shit?

Somewhere between probation and 18 months in jail. I don't... I hate that. I absolutely hate that. Although I get it. You have to make a deal to get the... Yeah. Okay.

But still, I hate it. So they do talk about this at the trial that without her testimony, they would not have been able to convict him. Yeah. Yeah. So this is moving forward. We we're moving forward getting closer to trial we're going to try patrick frazee for first degree murder and solicitation murder because apparently he was talking to everybody he's ever fucking known about getting rid of kelsey barrett he solicited no less than three people to try and kill her is a fucking idiot who is surrounded by the worst people.

Yeah. Who has a conversation like that and doesn't go to the cops? Yeah. What I think is frustrating about this case, but it's kind of the nature of this thing, is that to this day, we don't know why he did it. Other than he wanted to be with his mistress, which just fucking break up with her. I know. Yeah.

People do it every day. Yeah. Come on, man. Yeah. Kelsey's parents believe that it may be custody based, like he was planning to break up with Kelsey and then thought that he wouldn't get to see his daughter. And that's why. That's not how this works.

No. And so immediately during like the course of this. So in February, they file a wrongful death lawsuit against patrick frazee and they file for full custody yeah of their child and then patrick's parents file for custody as well no there's actually a custody hearing scheduled for december 5th between the two sets of grandparents over who will get to have custody i'm sorry but i i know. I think Kelsey's parents... I think there should be a basic rule, make it law across the nation. If you raised one murderer, you don't get a second shot with the grandkid. Too damn bad.

I don't think you get to blame the parents for what the kid did, though. I know. And I know what I'm saying is controversial and bad, but I'm just saying, if we know, we've got evidence of the job they did yeah okay i'm being terrible yeah hold on i've already said all this stuff so i gotta skip forward should i say more terrible things no i mean time to kill time you think i've said enough i think you've said enough i'm sorry but if you raised a murderer would you be like i should have a right to give it another go no probably not all right all right okay then probably not. All right. All right. Okay. Probably not.

Yeah. Thank you. Yes. So we're moving towards trial. It's now July and the prosecution says they're not going to seek the death penalty. Colorado technically has the death penalty, but they have like a moratorium on it. They're not putting anybody to death. So they're just like, nah.

Yeah. Yeah. We're going forward with a first degree murder. We're seeking life in prison without possibility of parole. That's great. Don't waste time with appeals and all that. Exactly.

Exactly. August 20th, 2019. A bunch of new stuff is released to the public and there's kind of new information that's released. So among it is that the trial is going to last about three weeks. The defense has asked for a jury pool of 300 candidates. That seems large. I think it seems very large. I mean, I don't know what the average is either, but that seems very large to me. And that the defense has submitted a motion that they will ask the court to endorse

an alternate suspect. So this is a motion that the defense has to put forward if they're going to try and blame somebody else at trial. Right. Okay. So they put this motion in, but there's no word about who this person is. The defense also asked for a bunch of evidence to be thrown out and not used, but that motion was denied. Yeah. Sorry, you can't have the moon and the stars. You don't. The defense has until September 17th 17th 2019 like at midnight to file paperwork on who this alternate suspect is and they don't do it they never present an alternate suspect so they cannot argue that in court that's weird i know why file the initial motion unless they were just like let's see if we can figure something out. I think they probably were.

Yeah. I mean, why not like try everything? Yeah. But yeah, they were unable to come up with anything. And so that motion expired and they are not able to argue an alternate suspect at trial. Wow. Yeah. Huh.

Jury selection for the murder trial for Patrick Frazee began on October 28th, 2019. God, this is a fresh one. It's so fresh. They brought in a jury pool of like 300. Jury selection took like three days. I bet it did. And finally, a 12-person jury and four alternates were seated. And opening arguments began on November 2nd 2019 actually I'm sorry

they began on November 1st 2019 November 2nd was a Saturday oh yeah that's right they seated the jury that day and then started the opening arguments that very same afternoon okay how dare you lie to me I'm so sorry I'm so sorry and then the prosecution called their first witness. It was Cheryl Barrett, Kelsey Barrett's mom. And she got up and talked about how her daughter was this great person and never would have disappeared and all the stuff that she said to the press this whole time. Yeah, yeah. They also called Kelsey's brother. And he talked about, so this is really interesting. So he is the reason that they did further testing in the house

to see if blood was present really so remember when police did the initial search the place looked normal right because fucking crystal kenny well yeah scrubbed the place clean for days like she was rachel lee cook right so when do you think people are going to know what i mean probably not there was a commercial about the dangers of math yes back in the 90s and she really scrubbed a place she sure did so kelsey's brother clint gets on the stand and he says that he went in the time that kelsey was missing before they really knew what was going on he had gone to her house condo whatever right and he had noticed that there was blood like on the underside of the toilet, just like a little tiny bit of blood on the underside of the toilet in her house.

And so he had brought this to the police. Wait, I'm sorry. Yeah. To be gross. Yeah. Blood on the underside of the toilet seat? No, like on the under. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Not inside the toilet, on the outside of the toilet but like underneath the lip yeah why the hell would that be there and so he thought this was super suspicious and so he calls detectives and he's like i found this i i don't know what it means but i feel like this needs to be checked out and so crime scene investigators come to the home and they do like luminol testing and they find that blood has been all over the fucking place in this condo. This is how they know that Kelsey is no longer alive.

Yeah. The tests show that it's been on the walls. It's been on the ceiling. It's been on the floor. It's been all over the fucking bathroom. Good for her brother. Yes. That's amazing.

It is amazing. Kelsey's boss at the aviation company that she worked for testified and said, you know, we thought it was super weird that she just texted us and said, I need the week off. That's very at the aviation company that she worked for testified and said, you know, we thought it was super weird that she just text us and said, I need the week off. That's a bunch of people involved in the investigation testify about what they found when they came to her condo, how they initially hadn't found anything out of the ordinary. And then they did the blood testing that there, you know, had been the blood everywhere, whatever. The next couple days of testimony would be a little bit difficult to follow because it was so

technical. So a digital expert testified and walked through a couple of different things. Surveillance video that showed footage from Kelsey's front door that caught Patrick coming and going from her place and having a big tote in the back of his truck and then that tote being moved. But it's not very clear footage. There's lots of shadows. There's not like it's not a direct line of sight. And so there's a lot of speculation that is involved in what you're seeing. And so the defense like really tore this apart on cross examination. They said that it looked because of the shadows and the direction of all the shadows that it looked like the timeline was not in chronological order.

Yeah. Like that everything had been pieced together to make it follow the narrative that the prosecution wanted it to follow, whether it did or not. And so this didn't end up being great information, but it shows a little bit of a narrative of Patrick's car being at the house. There's even a glimpse of them, I think, trading off the baby at some point. And then there is footage of him having this very large black tote in the back of his truck. And then that black tote being in a different position in the back of the truck. The prosecution's theory

is that he killed Kelsey inside the home, put her in the tote, and then took her to his property concealed in that tote. What more do you fucking want? Exactly. You want video of the actual murder because that's the only thing that's missing. Right. Patrick Frazee's own brother testified for the prosecution and said that he had been late to dinner on Thanksgiving Day. Yeah. The defense's argument through all of this is what a terrible fucking day to pick to murder someone. You murder someone in the middle of Thanksgiving Day when nobody's at work and people could have heard. Okay. Well, the guy's an idiot. So, I mean, how is that a defense? Yeah. That's essentially their defense, their entire defense. Okay. That's stupid for a number

of reasons, but domestic violence goes through the roof on Sundays. Yeah. You know, like. Yeah. And that would, in theory, be a dumb day to do it because people are off work. Blah, blah, blah. Murders happen when they happen. Mm-hmm. It was November 6th.

So we're a few days into the trial when Crystal Kenny took the stand. This is the prosecution's, you know, star witness. She's made a deal. And she talks about the cleanup that she did. She talks about ditching the phone. She cries multiple times on the stand. The defense on cross-examination is like, well, you got a deal to be here, didn't you? And she's like, yeah.

And they're like, you were facing life in prison, weren't you? And she's like, yeah. you and she's like yeah and they're like so you you didn't tell the police anything until you'd signed your name on that line and made sure you had a deal secured well that's how deals were yeah and she's like yeah i did you're right so she walks you know the court through you know everything that she knew everything that patrick said how he'd been asking her for you know, everything that she knew, everything that Patrick said, how he'd been asking her for, you know, months before if she'd if she'd poison Kelsey and all this stuff. And then the final question that she's asked on the stand by the prosecution by the prosecution is, what did Patrick tell you were Kelsey's last words? Oh, no. And she just broke down crying. And she said, please stop. Those were Kelsey's last words.

Please stop. Oh, God. The defense tried to make a big deal about how she never notified anybody that this happened. And she maintained, you know, I didn't know how to do it. I feared for my own life. Okay. Yeah. You know, she's a victim in this too.

I really think she is a victim. She is. I'm being an ass because I'm mad. So she really is a victim in this too. And I know it's hard to see it that way. But somebody would testify. An inmate who had been held with Patrick Frazee testified at the trial that Patrick had tried to solicit him to get somebody to murder Crystal. So she could not testify at trial. Yeah.

So Patrick meets this guy in prison and he notices that he's got a gang tattoo. And so he immediately starts passing him notes. And this guy keeps all the notes. They read these notes. Of course he does. They read these notes in court. And at the end of every note, Patrick Frazee writes, please flush when read. it's in court.

And at the end of every note, Patrick Frazee writes, please flush when read. But he's, yeah, he's like asking for him to contact his gang affiliates on the outside and get Crystal either killed or somehow occupied

until the trial ends. It's such a Michael Scott thing to do. Right? Michael Scott would never do that. How dare you? But no, it's so idiotic. It's such a Michael Scott thing to do. Right? Michael Scott would never do that. How dare you? But no, it's so idiotic. It's so dumb. And so they read three or four notes that this inmate has held on to.

And again, the defense is like, this is an unreliable witness. You know, what are you hoping to get out of this? And he's like, yeah, initially I was hoping I could get, you know, a deal or get my sentence reduced. And why wouldn't you be like, oh my God, this is a gift. Absolutely, that's why I kept these notes. This is a gift from God, this idiot. Yeah. I am for sure scrapbooking these notes.

Exactly. So the defense is like going at him and they're like, why'd you even hold on to these notes? And he's like, because I thought they might help me. Why do you think? Right. This guy, this inmate is like the last my client specifically how dare you yeah and so he's like the last surprise witness by the prosecution and

the defense is pissed and they're like you know jury please consider him an unreliable witness well yeah okay noted but still before he had testified, a bunch of experts had testified about the phone pings and all of that and just kind of boring testimony. I want to hear all of it. I'm not going to give you any of that. One person that they did have testify, an expert, this is kind of interesting but also disgusting, was an arson expert. Okay. So he testified about how if Patrick had burned Kelsey's body in that tote in the water trough, he said it's very common for bodies to liquefy in the fire rather than turn to ash. So there is a possibility that that would be why no remains were found on his property. Oh, my God. property oh my god so the prosecution believes that he lit the fire using motor oil and gasoline

which left like a wet looking stain on the soil but no other real like signs that oh god human remains had been there and this arson specialist says yeah that's completely possible. To this day, Kelsey's remains have never been found. Wow. Yeah. So the prosecution wraps up their case. They rest after, you know, getting that last witness to testify about the notes in prison. And then the defense rests without putting on any kind of case. Well, I mean. They do nothing. They call no witnesses. Nothing. The judge asked the jury to leave.

And he asked Patrick if he is the one choosing not to testify in his own defense. And he says yes. And that's it. On November 18th, 2019. November 18th, 2019. Oh, my God. That's crazy. That was like a week ago.

Yes. Closing arguments began and the prosecution is like, Patrick Frazee has been banking on one thing this entire time. No body, no crime. We can tell you that Kelsey is dead and we can tell you through the evidence that we have presented that Patrick Frazee is the one who killed her. Yeah. Just because there's no body does is the one who killed her. Yeah. Just because there's no body does not mean there was no crime.

Yeah. And the defense gets up and makes their closing argument. And they're like, hey, all we're saying is that, you know, the people who had the key information here were all given some help to testify. They were all here testifying on their own, you know, to help better their own situation. So keep that in mind as you're deliberating. I mean, what else can you say? Yeah, I mean, that's really all you can say. Absolutely. The judge told the jury that if they could not reach a verdict on first degree murder, that they could consider a lesser charge

of second degree murder or manslaughter. And the jury deliberated for three and a half hours. Oh, wow. And they came back with a guilty verdict on both counts, both the solicitation to commit murder and first degree murder. Good. The judge in the case sentenced Patrick Frazee to life in prison without the possibility of parole, plus 156 years for the solicitation to commit murder charges he said to patrick at his sentencing your actions were vicious and senseless kelsey spent her last night caring for you and you repaid her by viciously beating her to death then you burned her body. Your crimes deserve the absolute maximum punishment. Yeah. So as I mentioned, Kelsey's body has never been found. And her parents are still fighting to have full custody of her daughter.

A hearing is scheduled for December 5th. And they are hoping to adopt her. So get the custody and then make a formal adoption. Yeah. Will you post an update on Patreon? I absolutely will. All right. I absolutely will.

I think that it is nuts that this case, from start to finish, is less than a year. Yeah. What is Colorado? Because Colorado did the same thing with Chris Watts. I mean, he pled guilty. I think it's 1855 in Colorado. I don't understand how it happened that fast. Yeah. My mind is blown by that. It just doesn't happen like that. I think it helps when the murderer is super, super stupid. Yeah, I really

I honestly think it does help. Yeah. And I mean, thank God for them being able to track down that Crystal Kenny. And because I mean, they would not have convicted him without her testimony and i should put in crystal i do believe is a victim here so i shouldn't have been such a douchebag to her but still okay yeah it's tough it is tough it is tough it definitely is all right but i do understand that she feared for her life yeah yeah you know what we need now something else something nice we have questions from the discord to lighten this thing up sleep on norm's lap yeah we got questions oh thank god another terrible story no i can't handle any more terrible stories have you heard about slavery here we go all righty two very uplifting cases today thank you yeah absolutely

no problem kiki was disturbed and is now comforting me you know sometimes people have a nice thanksgiving and we gotta like just take them down that's exactly right i'm going to ask this question because i've messed up her name so many times and i'm gonna get it right this time this is marissa k1 i don't know why i read it as marisac before multiple times apologize for that you only get to eat one casserole on thanksgiving what do you eat we should do nothing but thanksgiving related questions this week so let's start with that one um only one cast so i'm not a huge casserole person but we have hash brown casserole at my thanksgiving so i do what's hash brown casserole it's like cheesy potatoes oh with like the corn flakes or crackers on top oh yeah all right all right that would be mine

because i don't do green bean casserole. I love green bean casserole. It smells like feet. So many delicious cheeses smell like feet. I mean. Yeah, but that doesn't have any cheese in it. Why does it smell like feet? It's probably the fried onions. Yeah, that's the fried onions. I will tell you, I've never tried it because it smells so bad.

There are so many things that you've not tried because you're like, oh, there's a texture issue. Oh, there's a, I don't like sauces. You've got to open up your mind, Brandy. Oh, wait, okay. My mom makes sweet potato souffle. Is that a casserole? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're counting that.

I got it. I'd pick that one. It's so good. I think I would do green bean casserole. Pass. I'm not sharing. Norm, you have a favorite casserole? You know, I was thinking about that.

I don't... I don't know. When I was a kid, I always loved the cranberry sauce. Oh, yeah. But that's not a casserole. I know. That's just... That's the sound of it coming out of the can. I've also never tried cranberry sauce.

Oh, my God, Brandi. Canned cranberry sauce. One time, I can't remember where I was but somebody made like real real cranberry sauce and i was like it's not as good what the fuck is this i'm sorry it's not as good give me the can it's way cheaper what are you doing making cranberry sauce do you leave it in can form like you slice it oh yeah oh yeah that's the way to do it my uncle is very specific he likes to see the ridges in the can. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Ooh, old timey disclaimer.

I love that. Has a good question. Okay. When you plate your Thanksgiving food, do you separate the food or do you let the food touch each other? Certain things I'll let touch each other. Certain things I won't. Like what? You would ask that. Like like I don't want anything

touching my deviled egg that's get it so it's got to sit on the edge of the plate so nothing gets on it because I don't want to taint it it's like my favorite thing and then well I don't do gravy so that's easier for me because you know gravy just kind of runs over everything yeah I don't do gravy so that's fine and then yeah I don't like stuff to really touch my stuffing either but i'm not like nothing shall touch if it does touch i'll kind of you know scooch it over oh yeah you're super fine i'm totally i'm totally fine totally cool about food totally cool about everything all the time this will surprise no one everyone mingles on my plate kristen probably just mixes her whole plate together. Basically. Makes her own casserole. Yeah. Mmm, Thanksgiving casserole. Tastes like everything.

Nat Likes Cats wants to know your thoughts on butter versus margarine. Oh, okay. So I do a lot of baking. Have to bake with butter. Stuff does not turn out right if you bake with margarine. Yeah. Gotta go butter. Yeah. I don't know where I read this, but I think they're getting rid of margarine, right? I don't know. I don't know. Because it has something in it that's really bad for you.

Really bad for you? People aren't buying margarine anymore. It has butter in it. It's really bad for you. There's butter in it? We don't have to do just Thanksgiving questions, because this is coming out after Thanksgiving. Okay. Okay. Thanksgiving. Okay. Okay. Okay. Amy

Licari wants to know I love your friendship. What is your favorite thing about each other? Oh. I can pass. Hmm.

I just I don't know. I just really love your personality same it's like you're just such a warm person and you too yeah it's just there's something about like just when we're together it just is so we could talk or not talk for hours no i yeah i mean i feel like we were drawn to each other in fifth grade and like yeah just like you were saying every time we're around each other it's just great yeah yeah and you can't like to narrow it down to like one favorite thing i couldn't do it probably your butt it's a very superficial friendship afcalf has a follow-up question to that one okay what's your least favorite thing about each other kristen's eating habits

you're eating habits exactly you're so funny yes you're so're so picky. So picky. I'm not that picky. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I didn't just eat a plate full of greens that they got out back at lunch. Did that bother you to see me eating a kale salad? I hated it. Listeners, you should have seen Kristen's salad today at lunch. It was just a giant plate of leaves. It's delicious.

It's literally a mound of kale with like two slabs of bacon on top and that's so good and i'm not anti-salad i ate a salad at lunch you did and it was delicious yeah so what's what's your beef with me huh huh no it's funny because you're like so like one end of the spectrum or the other what do you mean you're like, I'll eat only kale and this super healthy thing, or you're like, let's go have giant custard. You know, I know there are people who, I don't know. What am I trying to say? It's all about balance. Yeah, it's all about balance.

That's what I'm saying. I know, you like your egg white omelet with extra pine cones. No sodium. Boil the pine cone. I just think sometimes you gotta indulge. Our final question is from Patrick. He is

making pies with his wife and he wants to know... Why are you not reading your phone right now? You memorized it. Memorized it or maybe Norman is posing as some guy named Patrick. That'd be weird. What is your favorite and least favorite pie in honor of the holidays?

Oh my gosh, I love pie. I know. I think lemon meringue is my favorite. Okay. Oh, I've got a least favorite. You do? Strawberry rhubarb. But I'd still eat it if it was in front of me. I'd say something with raspberries because I don't like raspberries. Oh yeah. Seeds. See what I mean? It's her eating habits so weird um the seeds and raspberries are particularly

offensive in what way like i'll eat i'll eat seeds in a strawberry that don't bother me see this makes no sense your rules your food rules make no they do raspberry seeds are so hard and offensive hard Hard? Yes. What kind of raspberries have you been eating? The seeds. Actually, I'm with Brandy on this. I think the seeds in raspberries are much crunchier than strawberries. Yeah. I think what has happened here is that you two stumbled upon one of those bowls of fruit

that's really like ceramic fruit. No. And you're like, that's the one time you tried raspberries. Every now and then you'll bite into a raspberry and it'll have a real crunchy don't like it i can't i don't like it all right all right well you two also don't like gravy on your thanksgiving plate so i no one can listen to you too i don't i don't like brown gravy brown gravy yeah no that's what kind of gravy is at thanksgiving yeah thank you you ever seen someone make brown gravy even like how they make it i think it's kind of gross they put the freaking giblets in what is wrong my favorite here's this bag of shit that came out of the turkey let's put that in the gravy let it stew for a little bit and now i want you to pour it all over all right you two haters my favorite pie probably if we're

going like year-round apple pie yeah i can't beat apple pie it's delicious but also pecan pie is amazing okay and all pie really i never eat pecan pie i've i don't know that i've ever had pecan pie because if you have if there's pecan pie there's's also pumpkin pie. Just like by season, that's how it works. And I will always pick pumpkin pie. Brandy, let me... Pecan pie overrated. Hold on. Let me tell you something, okay?

Let me just blow your mind. Have a sliver of the pumpkin pie and a sliver of the pecan pie. You get all the slivers. You get everything. I'm never only having a sliver of pumpkin pie. I need a big old slice. Fine. Get a big old slice of pumpkin, a sliver of pecan just to try it.

My stomach's too full. I can't handle it. Oh, give it. This is why you're the worst. It's a good thing. I like your butt so much. Speaking of the worst, Brainy and I learned something about Kristen today. Coming home from work.

I almost made her get out of the car. We did almost kick her out of the vehicle. I remember you guys getting mad. Oh, yeah. We have discovered. You don't like... People are going to hate me for this. Don't say it.

We are saying it. This is like when I said that I got into a car without a lid on my drink and then everybody hated it. This is going to be a very unpopular opinion. Okay, well, I stand by it. Go ahead. Kristen does not like a Muppet christmas carol oh i can't

even believe it how are we friends you know i remember i saw it quite a bit as a kid and i think i enjoyed it okay but i'm just like if it's on i'm not no it is a must watch every year no i have hired my divorce attorney. James A. Reid. James A. Reid will be representing North. Well, I'll have Clarence Darrow, so good luck. He'll have egg on his shirt. But he's going to do a great job. That's a movie I watch every year. Every year.

It's my favorite Christmas movie. What other family classics do you hate? I mean, I don't know. Name other family classics do you hate i mean i don't know name some family class christmas story oh i love a christmas story i'm not an animal love a christmas me too oh i love christmas movies though so you know what i don't like that's my fan popular i am not into like the hallmark Christmas movies. Oh, they're terrible. Yeah. They're bad movies. Yeah.

I cannot get into them, but I love Christmas movies. Oh, gee. A busy workaholic. Are they going to fall in love? Yeah. Justin died for Christmas? You know what? Yeah.

You know what's going to happen. They're predictable. She goes from New York City to her small hometown and she runs into a guy she used to go to high school with. And at first they argue, but will they get together in the end over the holidays? I don't know. Yeah, come on, come on. P.S., sorry to anyone who loves those movies. Hey, I mean, if you like them,

I mean, you know what you're signing up for. All right, was that the last one? Yeah, that was it. Okay, cool. Thank you, Norm. I mean, we had a ton more, but I'm gonna wrap it up there. I mean, yeah, I think we did plenty.

Here's a question. What? What? Is Die wrap it up there. Yeah, I think we did plenty. Here's a question. What? What? Is Die Hard a Christmas movie? Yeah. Yes, it is. 100%. Really?

Yippee-ki-yay, motherfucker. Mr. Falcon. I think I'm going to disagree. I don't think it's a Christmas movie. What? It is absolutely a Christmas movie. I think it's an action movie that takes place during Christmas. Which makes it a Christmas movie.

I don't think so. Yes. Man, Clarence Darrow is going to rip you in two. Alright, should we do Supreme Court Inductions? We absolutely should, but first you should tell people how they get inducted. Is that because

you don't have the document up yet? You're scrolling, aren't you? Guys, here's how you join. You get on over that because you don't have the document up yet? I'm getting to the current episode. Guys, here's how you join. You get on over to patreon.com slash LGTC podcast and you join at the $7 per month level. That gets you inducted on this podcast. It also gets you a sticker, our lovely autographs valued at $12 million. That's today's value. It's only going up. Think about tomorrow. I mean, my God. You also get bonus episodes.

You get into the Discord where we can all chat and have a good time. And you get case updates. We occasionally have you vote on topics. Yeah. It's a real good time.

It's a bargain at any price. That's right. The value of it is $27 a month. You only pay $7. You have to pay $7. You know those infomercials that we're always like, the value is $500. And then they slash through it. Absolutely.

Now we're only four easy payments. So this week we are doing names and favorite TV shows. Absolutely. And what we'd like you to do at this time is envision your favorite Thanksgiving side dish while we read you the inductees. And then cover it in brown gravy. Mandy Massey Law and Order SVU Teresa Midsommar Murders Tamara

Cold Case Portland Parks and Rec Ashley Horn The Wire Reverend Porkchop The Wire Marvin

Black Mirror Oh, I love Black Mirror. Kelly How It's Made Oh, another one. Bonnie Bonbon Miller Forensic Files Rachel

Mad Men Welcome to the Supreme Court Oh, that was a good one. I'm loving the favorite TV shows. Me too, I really enjoy it. I'd like to thank you guys at this time for your support, but Kristen told me I'm not allowed to do that anymore. What? No, I didn't. You said I sound insincere. Well, because you always say, oh my gosh, you guys, thank you guys at this time for your support, but Kristen told me I'm not allowed to do that anymore. What? No, I didn't. You said I sound insincere.

Well, because you always say, oh my gosh, you guys, thank you so much. And it's like you're on a script or something and I just don't buy it. I don't buy it, frankly. For the record, there's nothing scripted about this show in any way, shape or form. Yeah, that's fair.

I think they knew that already. You know guess i guess i appreciate you guys no we totally do we do we're so excited yes thank you for supporting us if you're looking for other ways to support us please find us on social media we're on facebook twitter instagram youtube reddit patreon of course subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and then head on over to apple podcast leave us a rating leave us you guys we're almost to 700 yeah this is real this is a true story this is not a drill this is not a drill i'm sorry i'm just so excited because i feel like the last time we were really trying to get to a goal it it didn't feel like it was that long i remember when we were

begging people so we could get to 50 so our moms would buy us ice cream. I remember when we were trying to get to 25. Yes. And I was so excited when we hit 25. Well, I feel like a year ago, you guys, your goal was let's hit 200 by the end of the year. No, it was 100. It was 100 a year ago. That's crazy.

It's nuts. Thank you, guys. Yeah, this is amazing. Thank you so much. As 50% owner, I'm thrilled that you guys are growing up right now. You're going to clean up in this divorce, huh? Let me tell you. Happy belated Thanksgiving, guys.

Well, oh, yeah, yeah, you're right, belated. I'm sorry. Thanksgiving's tomorrow. Yeah, but from us in the United States, I know not everybody has Thanksgiving. It's our Thanksgiving. If you're not in the United States, know not everybody has Thanksgiving it's our Thanksgiving if you're not in the United States just have a big meal yeah

eat whatever you want put on some stretchy pants uh huh cover whatever you're eating in gravy and then say what you're thankful for and then bada bing bada boom you gotta have Thanksgiving

that's exactly right and you know be sure to join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process. I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia.

So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from Professor Douglas O. Linder's fabulous website, FamousTrials.com, Melton A. McLaurin's book, Celia, A Slave, and The Washington Post. And I got my info from ABC News, CBS News, The Denver Channel, Inside Edition, and CNN. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it.

Go read their stuff.