Let's Go To Court! - 99: Another Family Annihilator & the Smiling Widow

Episode Date: December 11, 2019

Lowell Lee Andrews seemed like a brainy, well-behaved teenager. In fact, the local newspaper called him, “the nicest boy in Wolcott.” After he graduated from high school, he took off for the University of Kansas, where he majored in zoology. Lowell’s life seemed unremarkable in its normalcy. But then, during his Thanksgiving break in 1958, Lowell went home and murdered his entire family. Then Kristin tells us about Jessie Costello, a.k.a., the smiling widow. In the 1930s, Jessie Costello was really something. She was a flapper. She was a snappy dresser. But her life was a little dull. She was married to a stern firefighter named Bill Costello. She was the mother of four children. She didn’t work outside the home. But her life got a whole lot more interesting when she met a married policeman named Edward McMahon. The two started up an affair, and they weren’t exactly discreet about it. So, a few months later, when Bill Costello died of an apparent heart attack, the people of Peabody, Massacusetts were skeptical. And now for a note about our process. For each episode, Kristin reads a bunch of articles, then spits them back out in her very limited vocabulary. Brandi copies and pastes from the best sources on the web. And sometimes Wikipedia. (No shade, Wikipedia. We love you.) We owe a huge debt of gratitude to the real experts who covered these cases. In this episode, Kristin pulled from: “Costello slain, doctor says at widow’s trial,” by Grace Robinson the Daily News “Jessie on trial during 23 days,” by Joseph F. Dinneen for The Boston Globe “McMahon near break under cross-examination on story,” by Melville E. Webb Jr for The Boston Globe “Dr. Rooney says cyanide caused Costello’s death,” by Alfred J. Monahan for The Boston Globe “Brands poison widow as sorceress-killer,” for the Daily News “‘I’m vindicated, M’Mahon isn’t,’ Jessie declares,” for the Daily News “Drop Dead Gorgeous: The Scandalous Trial of Jessie Costello” by Stephanie Almazan for The Lineup “The Festive Murder Trial of Jessie Costello” New England Historical Society  “Justice and Jessie Costello” Strange Company Blog In this episode, Brandi pulled from: “The nicest boy in Wolcott: ‘Polite’ Lowell Lee Andrews proved to be another ‘cold’ Kansas killer” by David Krajicek, The New York Daily News “A Crime For All Time” by Mike Belt, Lawrence Journal World “State v. Andrews” law.justia.com “Lowell Lee Andrew” wikipedia.org

One semester of law school. One semester of criminal justice. Two experts. I'm Kristen Caruso. I'm Brandi Egan. Let's go to court. On this episode I'll talk about the smiling widow. And I'll be talking about another family annihilator. You shouldn't smile when you say that. Brandi, first of all you've got a cold. I do. I have a cold. i actually sound way better than i have so miracle of miracles here we are recording but you've got big news oh what what are you referring to kristin oh gee i don't know i'm just like there's something sparkly that's catching my eye constantly yeah um david proposed and i said yes we're engaged yay congratulations thank you

by the way that was probably annoying for me to clap right into the mic yeah probably sorry guys it's just part of the podcast charm that's right that's our charm oh here we are on episode 99 can you believe it i can't They said we wouldn't make it. They said we'd quit at 97. And yet here we are. Here we are. Let's quit at 100, okay? Okay.

Final episode. No, we will not quit. No, we will not. We love this. We love it so much. And if you love this, let me tell you, you got to join us over on Patreon. This week, my mom discovered. Oh, man.

How do we even? Okay okay so we were putting up the tree she discovered some photos that brandy and i took during winter break of our ninth grade year on this planet yes um oh my god it's magical really so there's a close-up of brandy she's wearing her letter jacket that says cougars on it because you know that was that was the mascot that's right and now she's a cougar for sure because david's 12 years old and she's 47 you had the high ponytail pigtails because i had i had like a little bob but i still had to rock pigtails so i have yeah yeah a little half pony pigtails. And then I had sun in. Yeah. In my bath. I have so many braces in my mouth. Anyway, we posted those pictures on Patreon and.

Yeah. I'm just glad everybody could see my awkward stage. I looked great. Ugh. No, false. False. False. We both looked terrible, but we were having a good time.

We had, you know, each other. That's all we needed having a good time. We had, you know, each other. That's all we needed. So if you like that, you'll also like bonus episodes over there. We've got how many? Five bonus episodes? Good Lord. What more do you want? Six? Okay. Wait a couple weeks. Yes. We also have the Discord. Get on there. Chat with people. Yeah. If you are a patron and you have not made it to the Discord, what are you doing with your life? What are you doing? There's so much fun going on in the Discord. When you sign up, you get an email that tells you how to get in the Discord. You got to do it. It's so fun.

And then you also get a sticker. A sticker. I tell you. That's right. A sticker. I know you've been wondering, like, how do I get a sticker? Where are all the stickers? That's right. The only way to get a sticker these days is the stickers that's right the only way to get a sticker these days is to go on our patreon and sign up at the seven dollar level that's exactly right all right plug adjourned excellent should we get right into it let's talk about a terrible case get right into it as we've been 20 minutes in already uh ready to hear about a family annihilator i guess okay so i have to tell you that I found this case in kind of the oddest way possible. So not really the oddest way.

You annihilated your family and now you're reading about yourself? No. So I saw a little blurb about it on an Instagram account I follow, This Day in Crime, which I've mentioned before. Yeah, yeah. I've used them for cases before. So I found this case and then I was just like kind of reading through the Wikipedia page seeing if there was enough to do an episode on it.

And like I was following a couple of links, reading some stuff and every like link I went to linked me back to this same article. And it was a really great article. And so that's basically where most of those comes from. The article is in the New York Daily News. OK, so I put this episode together and then I'm going back to do my sources and I look at who wrote that article. Who?

And then I'm going back to do my sources and I look at who wrote that article. Who? My best friend, David Kradicek, wrote the fucking article for the New York Daily News. You know, it hurts my feelings every time you say it, but I get it. You two do have a bond. Here's the deal, though. My sister, Casey, who I've mentioned multiple times on here, told me the other day that I've been probably mispronouncing my best friend, David Kradicek's name this whole

time. Okay. David? No, his last name. So she works with my dad. They have a sign company and they do a lot of real estate signs and an agent came in and ordered signs. My sister looked at it and she was like, oh, it's Krawczyk, just like that David guy that Brandy likes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Except this woman pronounced it Krychek. Oh. Yeah, like Polish, right? Yeah. So I've probably been mispronouncing his name this whole time. It's probably Krychek. Yeah, probably the woman who has that last name knows how to pronounce it.

I bet she probably does. She's a bit of an expert. So I don't know. Krychek, Krychek, whatever. David, thank you for helping me out on another case. How's that going over there, Kristen? I'm sorry. Guys, I'm trying to silently put my straw into my water bottle.

I just slurped on it and it sounded terrible on the mic. I'm trying to be quiet. Anyway, this case is old timey. It's also local. And I'm very excited for it. It's a local family annihilator? Yes. Okay, go, go, go, go, go.

Faster. Faster. To everyone who knew him, Lowell Lee Andrews seemed like the perfect son. The one that every parent could be proud of. Don't trust him a bit. He was polite. He was studious. Never got into trouble. Except for the one time he killed his whole family. So when things went awry in the Andrews family in the late 1950s, it was quite the shock to Walcott, Kansas. Where's Walcott? Have you ever heard of Walcott, Kansas? No, no. Neither had I.

It's not really a town. It's a neighborhood. It's part of Kansas City, Kansas. Oh. Essentially kind of like Piper is or something like that. So Walcott is actually located like it's in the northern part of Kansas City, Kansas. There's Lakeside Speedway, which is like this little dirt like amateur racetrack. And that's essentially exactly where Walcott is. Okay. Lowell, who may have gone by Lee,

I can't really tell. Some articles call him Lee. Some articles call him Lowly. I'm not really sure. I'm gonna call him Low. Okay. So Low was a big kid. He was like six foot one, more than 250 pounds. The way I will describe him to you, and this isn't super accurate, but it's the closest thing I can come up with. Okay. Is he looks like donkey lips from Salute Your Shorts. Yeah. With glasses. Okay, okay, okay. God, I love that show. I know, me too. So like I said, good kid, very studious. He's got like a knack for musical talent. He plays the bassoon. I think you have a drop of water on your nose. Thank you. At this time, it's 1958. He's a student at Kansas University.

He's in his second year there. He's 18. Who says Kansas University? Well, University of Kansas. Yeah, there you go. I was going to say KU. And then I was like, oh, people aren't going to know what that is. So then I just did Kansas University.

I'm sorry for giving you shit. All right. Yeah. So he goes to the University of Kansas, a.k.a. KU, in Lawrence, which is about an hour from his home. He plays in the school band there. He plays the bassoon. He's a zoology major. And he's doing great academically.

He's very involved in his family church. They go to this Grandview Baptist Church in Kansas City, Kansas. One neighbor would describe him as the nicest boy in Walcott. The family was a family of farmers. They had a small like suburban farm. And Lee's parents lived on the farm, worked on the farm. They had done that for a long time. Lee, Lowell, whatever the fuck his name is.

William and Opal were his parents. And then he had an older sister who was 20 years old who went to college in Oklahoma. Lowell was not super social. He did okay, but he was more content to like read books and stuff like that. And his mom preferred that because it kept him out of trouble. Okay. There's, there's, you know, my boy David has a way with words. He really does. And when he describes people, he does not hold back. So I'm going to read you this little, this little clip that he says about him. He says, his mother sometimes worried that he was too solitary, but she reckoned her son was simply self-conscious and shy like many chubby teens.

So, but she really liked that he kind of kept to himself and was happy to be content with his books, you know, kept him out of trouble, whatever. But he adjusted well to college life. He lived in a boarding house at KU. And he did really well in school. But it was November of 1958. And he had come home for the Thanksgiving holiday. His sister had also come home from her name was Jenny. Jenny came home from school in Oklahoma. And it was like, hold on. Yes. Are you about to tell me it's one of these deals where someone goes off to college they don't get the grades that they should be getting and so then they come back and they kill their family no he was a great student he was getting good grades

okay but he does kill his family okay come on so it's Thanksgiving 1958 it's November 28th oh by the way for anyone who's like, you know, some people. We're not laughing at the family getting killed. We're laughing at, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. If they don't get that on this podcast.

I know, I know. Yeah. They're having a nice night at home. It was cold and snowy and the family was watching TV. The father, William, and the mother, Opal, and Jenny were sitting on the couch watching TV. Lowell was up in his room. He was reading a book. Specifically, he was reading The Brothers Karamazov. Okay, so I looked this up because I recognized the title, but didn't know anything about it. Okay. drama of moral struggles concerning faith, doubt, judgment, and reason set against a modernizing Russia with a plot that revolves around the subject of patricide.

Okay. So he's up in his room reading this book. It's Thanksgiving night. And rather than being bored to tears, he's like, hey, this guy has some pretty good ideas. Maybe. It might be the night after Thanksgiving. Now that I said it's Thanksgiving night, I'm not positive. I know they're home for the Thanksgiving holiday.

I didn't actually look up what day of the week November 28th was in 1958. Well, I think we forgive you. So he's reading. He finishes the book, which just seems like a monumental task to me. And then he gets up. He goes into the bathroom. He like gives himself a fresh shave combs his hair goes back into his bedroom puts on a suit and then he goes to a closet in the home and retrieves two guns a

like a small rifle that's used to like hunt varmint and then a ruger pistol put the pistol on his hip held the rifle across his chest, and then walked down the hall to the living room. He flipped on the light and out of nowhere shot right at his sister, right between the eyes. He then shot his mom six times and shot his father twice. What the fuck? Yeah. His father like fell down off the couch and started to like crawl out of the living room. And so Lowell pulled out the pistol from his hip and emptied it. In all, he shot his father 17 times. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. So old timey disclaimer here. Right. Most articles say his father was shot 17 times. His sister was shot twice and his mother was shot four or six times. Right. Most articles say his father was shot 17 times, his sister was shot twice, and his mother was shot four or six times. Okay. Then Lowell went around the house and made it look like there had been a robbery. He opened a bunch of windows, pulled a screen off, emptied dresser drawers, emptied the contents of his mom's purse and scattered it around, emptied his sister's purse and scattered it around, and then he left the house. He got in the family car

and drove to his boarding house in Lawrence. As he like drove over the bridge over the Kansas River on his way to Lawrence, he stopped and he dismantled the guns and threw them into the Kansas River. Yeah, then he got back in the car and he drove the rest of the way to Lawrence. He went to his boarding house and he was super chatty, which was just not his normal character. He talked to the landlady of the boarding house, made a whole conversation with her about how he came to get his typewriter because he had a homework assignment that he needed to do. He chatted with some other person who boarded there. Like he really wanted to make sure he had been seen at this boarding house. And it's cold and snowy and icy out.

It took him forever to drive to Lawrence. He told the guy that he talked to at his boarding house that it took him over two hours to get to Lawrence from his home in Walcott. But that he needed to come get his typewriter for that homework assignment. Then, once he's chatted it up at the boarding house, he heads on down to the Granada, which is a theater in Lawrence. Now they do like concerts and stuff there. At the time, it was a movie theater. Okay.

And so he goes and sees a movie. Specifically, he went and saw Mardi Gras, which I hadn't heard of. No. But I looked it up. Mardi Gras came out in 1958 and starred Pat Boone. And this is the synopsis as described by IMDb. A military school cadet wins a date with a French movie goddess who happens to be the queen of the Mardi Gras parade.

They fall in love. But the French actress's movie studio wants to capitalize on the newfound love for publicity. Okay, it doesn't sound that great. It doesn't sound that good, no. So while he's at the movie theater, he chats it up with everybody there. He makes conversation with the candy counter girl. He talks to an usher. He is making sure that he's making an impression while he's here.

Because his whole plan is once this movie's out, he's going to drive back home, say he'd been out all night, and then he came home to found his house robbed and his family dead. Yeah. And that's exactly what he does. The movie gets out sometime after 11. He gets back in the car, drives to Walcott. He feeds the family dog. And then somewhere around one o'clock in the morning, he calls the Wyandotte County Sheriff's

Department and says he's just gotten home and discovered a robbery. Why does your face look like that? Why'd he wait? I don't think that he probably waited that long. Because if the movie got out sometime after 11, he's got at least an hour drive home, maybe longer if the roads are bad. You're right. And he specifically did not take the turnpike. So that's the fastest way to get from Kansas City, Kansas to Lawrence is on the turnpike. But he thought that he'd have a better chance of being seen that way. And he didn't necessarily want to be seen driving from one location to the next.

Okay. Okay. So he mentioned specifically not taking the turnpike on the way to Lawrence because he didn't want to be seen driving to Lawrence specifically. Right. And then he took the same route home. Okay. So he probably came in, fed the dog, and then immediately called the sheriff's department.

Right. So a deputy comes, and when he gets there, he sees Lowell sitting on the front porch of the house, playing with the family's Pekingese dog. And he's like, what happened here? And Lowell kind of like looks up, and he's like, oh, hey, look in there, and just points to the house. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Yeah, act natural, buddy. So immediately this deputy is like, what the fuck? This is odd. Yeah. So his spidey senses are already like on full alert. Yeah. That's a super odd thing. So more officers get there. They start looking at the scene and they're all like hush hush talking about like something's up with the boy like yeah he's still playing with the dog out front yeah not seeming one bit sad and so the coroner comes and the coroner starts to try and talk to lol about where he wants the body sent you know do you guys have you know a funeral home in mind and he says i don't care

what you do with them what yeah and so that's like the final thing and they're like okay so they actually it's weird to me that he worked so hard to be seen at yeah but he can't work a little hard now that the police are there to act somewhat normal yeah yeah he has no concern at all like he has no emotion over what's going on inside like can't even fake it okay yeah And so at this point, they're like, yeah, okay, there's definitely something up. So they take him like to the station. Yeah. And then they call the family minister. So as I mentioned, this family is very involved with their church. They call this guy. Okay. In some articles, his name is spelled V-I-R-T-O. And in

some it's spelled V-I-T-R-O. So I don't know if it's VIRTO or VITRO, but whatever. His last name is Dameron. So they call this minister, Mr. Dameron, and they ask him to come talk to Lowell. So he comes down to the station and he's a very well-respected minister, very well-known in the area. So like, you know, he talks to the police first and then he comes in and they've got Lowell sitting in a room by himself and the minister comes in and he brings him a coke and he's like he gives Lowell the coke and then they're talking about school and the Thanksgiving holiday and all of this stuff and he's just trying to get him to talk a little bit and then he says to Lowell he says you didn't do this terrible thing did you if you did now's the time to purge your soul.

So that's what he says to Lowell. And Lowell looks at him and then he just nodded and he confessed to all of it. He told him exactly what he'd done. Whoa. Yeah. And so the pastor's kind of sitting there with him and he's like, okay, and how did you feel about that? And he said, I didn't feel anything about it. The time came and I was doing what I had to do. What you had to do? Yeah, he said that's all there was to it.

Okay. Yeah, and so at that time, he makes an official statement. He gives them like a verbal confession that they write down and then they have him read and he initials each page and signs it and all of that. At that point, Lowell Lee Andrews was placed under arrest and charged with three counts of first degree murder. Shortly after his arrest, Lowell was subjected to a panel of mental health experts

to see if he was competent to stand trial. So he was sent to the Menninger Clinic. In this article, it calls it a psychotherapy sanctum, but I'm guessing some kind of mental institution. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In Topeka. So he undergoes like a series of interviews and tests with like three different psychiatrists at this facility so that

the court can get like three independent opinions on if he's competent to stand trial. So one of these doctors, Dr. Joseph Satten, Satten, S-A-T-T-E-t-e-n sure diagnosis him as schizophrenic and delusional or i'm sorry schizophrenic but not delusional so he says that he is definitely schizophrenic he's definitely suffering from mental illness but he knew what he was doing and he knew why he was doing it and his motive was while it doesn't necessarily make sense there was to him a rational motive behind it he wanted to inherit the family farm and he wanted the $1,800 in his parents' bank account. So he could give a clear reason why he decided to murder his family. Wow. It wasn't, you know, voices told me to do it or this or that. He had a somewhat logical reason that he did it. Okay. And so this was something that this particular doctor, Dr. Satin had like focused his

career on. He studied these sudden murders that are committed with like a really weak motive, like he had really studied them. And so he took a special interest in Lowell's case. And he really felt that while he was suffering from mental illness, he was competent to stand trial. He understood that what he had done was wrong. And that while he was competent to stand trial. He understood that what he had done was wrong and that while he was emotionally detached, he knew that he deserved punishment for it. And the other two psychiatrists who examined him came to similar diagnosis. I don't know that anyone else specifically diagnosed him with schizophrenia, but they all said he was competent to stand trial and that he was not insane at the time of the murders. Yeah. While there might have been mental illness present,

it wasn't the driving factor in what he did. Okay. So he ends up going to trial. He gets like three defense attorneys kind of assigned to him. I think one he hires and the other two are assigned to him. I don't really know. And they work up an insanity defense and they plead not guilty by reason of insanity.

And ultimately it doesn't work. He's found guilty at trial and he's sentenced to death. Wow. Yeah. As an 18-year-old kid who's been diagnosed as being mentally ill. Wow. Yeah. So he's sent to the Lansing Correctional Facility in Lansing, Kansas.

And it's actually really interesting because he's put on death row there. And at the exact same time that he's on death row there and at the exact same time that he's on death row there two very famous inmates are also there uh-huh you know who well i'm assuming the cutter family murderers clutter family clutter yes dick hickok and perry smith so they are also on death row and so they become very acquainted with each other if people don't know in cold blood by truman capote that's the book about that. About the clutter murders. And it's really, the book also goes a lot into Dick Hickok and Perry Smith. Because when Truman Capote was researching this book, he came to the prison regularly and interviewed them. And by extension, he interviewed Lowell

Andrews several times, too. He's mentioned in In Cold Blood. Oh, I didn't know that. He's actually, there's actually a scene with him in the movie, too. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Yeah. And so he gets to know Truman Capote. He gets to know Hickok and Smith. So there's actually a couple of quotes in In Cold Blood about him. I'm going to read one to you.

Okay. This is by Dick Hickok. He said, I really liked Andy. He was a nut. Not a real nut, like they keep hollering, but, you know, just goofy. He was always talking about breaking out of here and making his living as a hired gun.

He liked to imagine himself roaming around Chicago or Los Angeles with a machine gun and a violin case. Cooling guys. Said he'd charge a thousand bucks per stiff. So this actually made a big impact on how people saw this murder and how people saw Lowell and like changed what people thought his motive for it was that he really wanted to become like a mobster or a hitman and that this was how he was going to see if he could handle it if he could

handle murdering his family then maybe he could make it like on the streets of Chicago. Oh, God. Yeah. But obviously he couldn't if he confessed to it right away. Yeah. Yeah. In In Cold Blood, there's another section where he's mentioned and it talks about, you know, Hickok and Perry's impressions of him. And one of them said, you know, Andy was a funny kid. It was like I told him he had no respect for human life, not even his own. He didn't even have the respect for his own life to try and, you know, feign concern over his family or, you know, not confess. Like he just, he's just like, yeah, I did it. And that was it. Couldn't that be mental illness? I think it's absolutely mental illness. I think it's 100% mental illness. And so did his attorneys, because after he was sentenced to death, Lowell had no interest in fighting it. He wasn't upset with it. He was just like, that's how it is. But his attorneys, one of them was Buford E. Braley. And the other was,

oh, gosh, hold on. I can't find the other guy's name. This other guy, his last name was Ahrens. Two of his attorneys really took it upon themselves to appeal his conviction and fight. They really thought that you could not put to death someone who had been diagnosed as mentally ill. And so initially, Braley took on the appeals process for Lowell's case. And he fought his conviction for multiple reasons. First, he argued that an insanity plea should have been accepted because Lowell had been diagnosed as schizophrenic. He also argued that the jury should have been instructed that had they accepted his plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, that he would have been sent to a state hospital. It's not like he would have just been free to live his life among them. And they weren't given that instruction.

Yeah. And then third, he argued that Lowell's confession to his pastor should have been protected information and that the clergyman should not have been able to testify at trial about the confession. These appeals stretched out for a couple of years. And Braley, along with the co-counsel, actually earned Lowell three different stays of execution during that time. And the appeals process even extended. They took it all the way to the Kansas Supreme Court. Ultimately, though, the Supreme Court ruled that the lower court had made the right decisions at trial, and they upheld Lowell's conviction and sentence. The opinion of the Supreme Court said that an insanity defense didn't work because while Lowell had been diagnosed as schizophrenic, three different psychiatric professionals had agreed that he did not exhibit signs of being insane at the time that he committed the murder.

See, I've never understood this. Right. Never understood it at all. They said that because immediately after he attempted to cover it up, and then when he told the pastor about it, he said that he knew he deserved to be punished. That meant that he understood the consequences of what he did, and therefore was not legally insane. They did not meet the burden of proving legal insanity. Additionally, they said that it was the judge's call on whether he should instruct the jury about what would happen if they chose to find him not guilty by reason of insanity.

So they said, yeah, that was absolutely the judge's call and he's free to make that call how he wants. So it's fine that he didn't give them the instruction that that's what happened if they found him not guilty. I don't like that because yeah, if the jury thinks we either have to find him guilty and sentence him to death, or he'll just be out wandering around if we accept the plea, like, then they really have no choice. Yeah, in my opinion. Yeah, I agree. I think they should be told that, you know, should you accept this

plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, then this is what will happen. Yeah, yeah. He will be, you know, sentenced to institutionalized and subject to care and get the mental health care that he needs. Yeah, I think that is important to tell the jury. Of course it is. Thirdly, the opinion said that the argument about Lowell's confession to his pastor was not applicable. First, because he's Baptist and Baptist pastors don't adhere to the same laws of confession that say Catholic priests do. It's not believed to be a confidential thing. You know, you go to you go to confession in a Catholic church. And so there are laws about that about that being confidential and Baptist

pastors don't fall under that same protection. Okay. And more importantly, what the opinion said was that when he gave his confession to his pastor, the pastor asked Lowell if he wished it to be private. And he said, you know, we can do this between us. And then I can get you the best lawyer that we can find. Or if you'd like to make this an official statement, I'll get the officers in here and we can put this official statement down and we can move forward with this as best we can. And in that moment, Lowell said, bring them in. And he chose to make an official confession at that time. Yeah. Following this decision. So this was when the Kansas Supreme Court brought down this opinion. Braley said that he had done his duty in this case and that there was little

else that could be done short of getting this U.S. Supreme Court to look at the case. And he thought that that seemed unlikely. And so he essentially gave up the fight at that time. unlikely. And so he essentially gave up the fight at that time. But one of Lowell's other attorneys, a Topeka man named James Ahrens, H, I'm sorry, A-H-R-E-N-S, Ahrens. Sure, whatever. So he continued the fight and he fought until the hour before Lowell's execution. Oh, he was quoted as saying, the hard fact remains that a youth who is seriously mentally ill is being executed. that a youth who is seriously mentally ill is being executed. Yeah, I hate this. Yeah.

I never know what to say in these things because I'm anti-death penalty all the time. Yeah. I can't imagine putting someone to death at all, let alone someone who's mentally ill. Yeah, absolutely. What the fuck? Yeah. On November 29th, 1962, Lowellrews ate his final meal of fried chicken so i actually came across two different versions of what his final meal were so i'm going to share them both okay one said his last meal was two fried chickens with sides of mashed potatoes green beans

and pie a la mode that sounds delicious the other one said his last meal was fried chicken, French fries, lettuce, like a head of lettuce wedged, and then soda with vanilla ice cream and strawberries and cigars. Ew. Yeah. I like the first one way better. I like the first one way better. So he ate his last meal. And then just after midnight on November 30th, 1962, Lowly Andrews was hung. When asked if he had any final words, he smiled and said,

no, I don't think so. When asked if he had any final requests, again, he said no. Spectators said he looked disinterested all the way through his final moments. Before he died, so before he was taken from his cell to the gallows to be hung, he actually handed Richard Hickok a stanza from a poem by Thomas Gray. And it concluded, the paths of glory lead but to the grave. That's the story of Lowell Lee Andrews. I'm so disturbed by that. So schizophrenia in men, it's more common in men, right? It's more common in men and typically diagnosed somewhere around 20 years of age.

So he was 18 when he murdered his family. So this guy was potentially just starting to... Battle with mental illness and not really know what the hell was going on with himself. Yeah. Yeah. And then he was murdered by the state of Kansas. Yep. He is one of the last people that was put to death by the state of Kansas.

So Kansas still has the death penalty, but they have not put anybody to death for several decades. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I think it's terribly sad

and I think it would not happen the same way today if this case was to happen today. Yeah. Because we have such a better understanding of mental illness. And I think the fact that in 1960,

he had a lawyer who was fighting for him until the minute he died, like, because he recognized what mental illness was. I think that's huge. Yeah. But obviously it wasn't enough to. Well, and we still don't know shit about mental illness. No. At least I would hope, yeah, that we would do a better job today.

Yeah, absolutely. But I thought this is a local case with a tie to, to like the second most famous true crime book in history. And I had never heard of it. Yeah. Yeah. So thank you to This Day in Crime on Instagram for. All right. Thank you again for supplying Brandy with her cases.

That's right. Well, and I have a big thank you to Copperboom15 in our Discord for my case this week. Excellent. She made this suggestion. I looked into it. I'd never heard of it before i'm fascinated and very very conflicted by this case okay i love it and i hate it all at once all right are we ready yes first old-timey disclaimer boom boom got it it's an old one

lots of different stuff blah yeah also i've been debating where to say this so you're just gonna say it right at the beginning i think i'm gonna say at the beginning there are some newer articles that have been written about this case and while i appreciate that they've been written because they're how i found this you know like i never would have stumbled upon this case in the wild for the most part i really don't like the way they are written okay they're well we'll get into it we'll get into it okay it's just they're written in a certain way and they don't provide the defense's side at all which i think even when it looks like it's very obvious what happened why the hell wouldn't you include someone's defense yeah so. So anyway. Okay. So I'm not shouting out anyone except for newspapers.com because I found a lot of good articles written at the time of the trial about this.

All right. There we go. Jesse Costello was really something. She was a flapper. She had short hair, tight clothes, an an ample bosom and an even bigger personality okay every article like people were obsessed with what she looked like wow the awkward thing about it and i'm sorry for being a butthole okay she's not that hot i don't know like every every article is about how maybe so much of it's her personality and you can't see that in a picture but the articles say she's beautiful and you don't think

she's beautiful google jesse costello okay just give it a google oh yep she's a bit more mannish than i would so i read in one of the articles later where she was like, no, I don't have my eyebrows plucked. I think, you know, it gives women an artificial look. Okay, so here's something interesting. I think in this picture, she does look stunning. But in this picture, not so much. Yeah, I mean, it kind of depends on, and you know, this is back in the day where they didn't take a million shots of you. You got one shot, kind of like our ninth grade photos that we put up on Patreon.

Like, you get one shot if the lighting's bad or if the angle's bad, you're just screwed. So one day in 1919, she was out selling poppies for World War. I think they called it the Great War at that time. In this article, it said the World War. Oh. I know, which was weird because I thought it was called the Great War, too. No, didn't they call it the Great War? World War I?

Yeah. Yes. See, in this article, it just said the World War. And I was like waiting for the one. And then I realized, oh, wait. They don't call it that. They don't know what's coming. So she was selling these poppies for veterans when she went into the Peabody, Massachusetts

firehouse to see if any of the firefighters wanted to buy a poppy. One of them did. He wanted more than a poppy. His name was Bill Costello. The two hit it off and they got married when Jesse was 21. But married life was pretty boring. Bill was a strict Catholic and he wasn't that into laughing or talking or having fun. He spent most of his time

worrying and talking about his indigestion. Oh, wow. Really? Yeah, that's what the articles say. So by the time she was 30, Jessie was a housewife with four kids and a very serious husband. Life was dull. But that all changed when she met a police officer named Edward McMahon.

McMahon. McMahon. Yeah. Ed was awesome. Ed McMahon. Like the Ed McMahon. M-C-M-A-N-J-O-N. That's how Ed McMahon spells it.

Okay. Well, that's just weird. Yeah. Anyway, Ed was married. Did he also host Star Search? Part-time police officer, full-time host of Star Search. Jesse and Ed were all over each other okay one story described him as lumpish no and none too bright oh but one woman's lump is another woman's treasure

wow okay other articles described him as very handsome i thought the pictures of him weren't bad lumpish can you imagine being described as lumpish? That sounds very hurtful. I know. I'd cry a long time. So these two are banging on the rig and Jesse even had a nickname for Ed. What was it? Big Boy. Oh. Big Boy. Oh, Big Boy. I love it. Norm, you jealous? Big Boy. Ed brought a level of excitement to jesse's life that hadn't been there before to make things extra complicated and weird for a while ed his wife and their two kids all lived with the costellos what yeah how'd that happen? Kind of makes me sad.

My understanding of Bill was that he was a very nice man and a very, like, you know, he was a good Catholic. I think he believed that if someone was down on their luck, they should take him in. And, man, I'm sure Jesse was very interested in taking Ed in to her... Vagina? Oh, is that not what you were going to say? That's exactly what I was going to say! I was getting to a halt. So this affair is going on

for about two and a half months. And then, on February 17th, 1933, a door-to-door fudge saleswoman What?! What?! Don't you wish that still existed? nelly ayers came to jesse's house jesse invited nelly inside and nelly asked jesse if she'd like to buy some fudge and you

know obviously who's gonna say no to fudge yeah only a psycho so jesse said yes. In fact, she wanted a whole pound of fudge. All the fudge. Give me all the fudge. Nellie's like. With the fudge. Nellie's like, awesome. Do you want to be a door-to-door fudge saleswoman, Brandy? No, I would eat all of my stock. You just show up with chocolate everywhere. You're like, may I help you?

And you're like, oh, shit. No, sorry. She's like, did you pre-order something? So Jesse said, hang on just a second. I need to go upstairs and grab my purse. Jesse goes upstairs. All of a sudden, Nellie heard screaming. Jesse said, my husband, he's dead.

And he was dead. Real dead? Bill was dead on the bathroom floor from what excellent question jesse quickly ushered nelly out of the house she said i can't think of sweets at a time like this she did not say that that's what the article said oh my gosh i also read somewhere that like nelly was pissed about this which is like okay are you kidding are you kidding? Are you kidding me? Nellie, I know you wanted to make a sale, but I mean, come on. So Nellie leaves. The police come.

They take Bill's body. And it was just so sad. The doctor said that Bill had died probably from a heart attack, just heart trouble of some sort. Terribly tragic. Yes. We often do cases where someone dies of natural causes and that's the end you know heart disease is a big problem but we're thank you for coming to our town

don't eat a whole pound of fudge that's what i'm trying to say words spread around town and people were like heart trouble i don't think so turns out jesse had gone to the pharmacy the night before bill died she poisoned him well she had bought some cyanide if you must know what was she planning to do inside she's had some rats she was trying to kill don't worry the excuses are coming okay plus everyone knew that jesse was having an affair with Lumpy Ed. I mean, everyone knew. Did Bill know? Yes.

Bill knew? Ed's wife knew. I mean, these two were not keeping any secrets. Everyone knew about this affair. What the hell? And a heart attack? Bill was only 38. Oh, yeah.

He was super healthy. He'd been in good spirits. So pretty soon, the rumors... Yeah, usually before they have a heart attack, they're in terrible spirits. Well, that's going to come into... Okay. Okay. Pretty soon, the rumors got so...

The number one sign that you're having a heart attack or you're about to have a heart attack is that you're in a bad mood. Well, how about this? How about this, sassy pants? Sometimes when you're poisoned, you could poison yourself. But if you're in good spirits, why would you do such a thing? Oh, I get what you're saying. There we go. You smell what I'm stepping in? Yes, I am. Right, then, you know, fudge off. Fudge off. Pretty soon the rumors got so intense that even though the undertakers were in the process of embalming Bill's body, the police were like, could we have that back real quick? Oh my gosh.

So they did a reexamination. This time they examined Bill's organs. And a pathologist, a toxicologist, and the medical examiner for Suffolk County all weighed in. And they were like, oh, this dude was poisoned. What? This guy had a ton of cyanide in his body. His wife bought

cyanide the day before. It didn't take long for investigators to develop a theory. Clearly, Jesse Costello was in love with Ed, aka Big Boy. Big Boy. Big Boy. And Bill knew about it. And he wanted the affair to end,

but she couldn't stand it. And he was tired of being called Small Boy. She also wanted the insurance money. How much? Five grand. Ooh. Don't worry. Later, I will adjust that for inflation,

but I can't remember it at all right now. On March 17, 1933, Jessie was arrested. And soon, her trial began in Salem, Massachusetts. Ooh. But this was no ordinary trial. This was no witch hunt. That's what you should have said. Oh, damn.

That was... Damn it! Real missed opportunity there. I can't get that back. So, tons of people showed up. Everyone thought Jessie was super hot, super cool. Photographers captured her walking in and out of the court in beautiful clothes. Reporters wrote about her.

And the way they wrote about her, her okay one called her a glamorous siren another said she had all the modest sex appeal of lady godiva plus clothing but minus horse minus horse i thought you said horse no horse bottom line people were obsessed with her. Love letters poured in. One source said 500 a day, which seems crazy. Very excessive. But these shenanigans didn't stop at the courthouse steps.

Brandy, the bailiff, sent her roses every morning. Which, how is that not against the rules? I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. She had a jury of 12 married men. And one of them, okay, one source said just one, the other source said all of them asked the court's permission to send her candy. What? Well, you know, you know how it is. I know she never got to buy that fudge. You think they heard that story and they were like, that is so sad. This woman has had a hankering for fudge for months.

The prosecution's case was circumstantial, but, I mean, not bad. Yeah. In opening arguments, District Attorney Hugh Gregg called Jessie a frivolous woman, extravagant, deceptive, profane, and vulgar. Oh. I know. I know. profane, and vulgar. Oh.

I know. I know. He said that she was promiscuous, both in the traditional sense of the word and financially. Oh. Okay, so here's what I don't like. A lot of modern articles on her... Well, no, no, no.

I'll say... I'll save it. I'll fucking save it, okay? Okay, fucking save it, Kristen. He said that she was in a tough spot financially. Oh, here we go. But Bill had a $5,000 life insurance policy. So she killed him so that she could cash in.

Adjusted for inflation? Almost a hundred grand. Wow. That's a chunk of change. The prosecution was also like, give me a break. There's no way that Jesse discovered her husband's dead body when the fudge lady arrived in the house i'm sure nelly was like excuse me can you not be calling me the fudge lady please okay i have something to confess like every article called her a candy saleswoman

but one article said she was a fudge saleswoman and i just think that's funnier it is funny and bottom line she wanted to buy the fudge so everybody shut up they called a witness who said that on the last day he was alive bill had been at the wake for a friend and he'd been there until like 2 15 in the morning what kind of fucking wake is that i don't know how it works i don't i wonder well no that's that's sitting shiva see i don't i don't know don't in. I don't know. I wonder. Well, no, that's sitting Shiva. See, I don't know. Don't in some religions, don't you like sit with the family till? Yeah, for like seven days. Right.

Yeah. Okay. I'm sorry, guys. I know nothing beyond my bubble. Anyway, bottom line, he was there till 2.15 in the morning. Then he was like, okay, I've got to be a pallbearer tomorrow. I'm going to go home, get some rest. was like okay i've got to be a pallbearer tomorrow i'm gonna go home get some rest jesse's story was that bill came home and she saw him asleep in bed around eight in the morning and at some point

after that he must have gotten up and committed suicide what yes brandy that doesn't make any sense well if he was full of poison and she didn't do it, then what do you want? Maybe she put the cyanide in the bathroom and he got up after being out at 2.15 drinking his sorrows away at this wake. I'm guessing there was alcohol there. So I don't know what else you're doing until 2.15. And then he got up in the morning and he went to take some aspirin for his splitting headache and he accidentally took cyanide. That'd be a much better defense. The defense is that she had capsules of cyanide in an aspirin tablet? Yeah, they already know that she bought the cyanide at the pharmacy.

But not in capsule form. Well, yeah, I don't know what form it's in, but maybe she accidentally set it right next to the aspirin. Well, she didn't buy it in capsule form. Well, I don't know that. You haven't told us that yet, Kristen. Oh, is this my fault? Yes.

Here I am coming up with a perfect defense for Jesse Costello. I question you greatly, ma'am. So yeah, he got up and committed suicide. What form was this cyanide in that he got up and decided to take? It was in pill form, according to the pill form. Yes. So he got up and took pills of cyanide thinking they were aspirin. Why would an innocent person put cyanide into pills and then leave them in the bathroom? Well, I don't know what she was planning with them, but they sell cyanide and pills. So she was able to just get that at the pharmacy. So there must have been cyanide. And they obviously do.

If she bought them at the pharmacy. No, she have been. They don't sell cyanide in pills. They obviously do if she bought them at the pharmacy. No, she didn't buy them in pill form. Brady. It's like powdery when you buy it at the pharmacy. You just said she had it in pill form. Okay. Hold. You know what?

I should have told you to buckle the fuck up. We will get to this later. Okay. But you buy it in powder form because you're not supposed to ingest it. Right. But obviously, at some other point, you could go buy capsules, empty capsules, which you could put the powder into the capsules. So she made cyanide capsules is what you're telling me. That's what the prosecution is telling you, Brandy.

All right. Uh-huh. And what was her excuse for that? Would you? Can you wait? Can you wait? No, I obviously can't. Okay.

So Bill committed suicide. All right. And Jesse didn't find his body until that fudge saleswoman came knocking. She made capsules because she was so upset with the way her life was going. She couldn't handle not getting to be with her love, Ed McMahon. And so she was going to kill herself. And she accidentally foolishly left the capsules out. No way.

Absolutely not. And then Bill took them thinking they were aspirin. That is your worst theory. No. I'm saying that's a better defense than whatever she's going to say. Okay. Okay. Let's see, shall we yeah let's but the prosecution was like give me how the fuck do you explain making cyanide capsules well the defense is obviously gonna say she never did that well then how the fuck were there cyanide capsules in the house they didn't find cyanide capsules in the house. They didn't find cyanide capsules in the house.

Where'd they find? What? In the dude's body. They were in capsule form still in his body? There was a gelatin in his body, an amount of gelatin that indicated to the medical examiner, okay, he ingested this poison via pill. Okay. All right.

All right. Okay. Norman, can you believe this woman? It's good content. So the prosecution's like, give me a break. You had to have known there was a dead body in your bathroom. There's no way you discovered your husband's body when you say you did. Why not? So that's interesting to me. And part of me is like, well, okay, let's keep going.

They called a civil engineer to testify, which this seems like overkill. But anyway, the guy testified to the layout of the Costello home. And the engineer was like, yeah, given the layout of this house, I don't see you could have a dead guy laying around without anybody noticing. The other thing i wonder is how

many bathrooms no i know how many bathrooms probably only one given the time given the time there's one bathroom but and it all depends on when exactly he died because i mean maybe jesse's not like me where she pees every 25 minutes she's been hanging out in the living room and the bathroom's towards the back of the house i'm not i don't think i don't believe this so i'm not buying the civil engineer i think it could happen okay dr george mcgrath who was like super fancy pants he was the medical examiner for suffolk county and a professor of legal medicine at harvard whatever the hell that is and by that i mean i've never heard of harvard shared a theory that bill's body had been moved after he was dead. How could she tell that with her legal medicine degree?

Her? This was 1933. There was no her. You said her. No. She said she testified. A woman doctor. So, you see, it all came down to livid spots on the body yeah lividity right where the blood was where the blood had settled so he's saying you know this is all about where the blood settled this happens thanks to gravity the livid spots occur in parts of the body that lay on the floor

this testimony was long kind of convoluted so So I'll just tell you, he thought that Bill should have been in a particular position, given the amount of poison he ingested and the fact that he took it orally, not anally. But he wasn't discovered in that position. I'm sorry, I realized I said orally in here. It's like, well, how else is he going to get it? The prosecution called a pharmacist who said that, yes, he'd sold Jesse that cyanide the night before. And he'd warned her that it was a deadly poison. By the way, apparently Bill was like in the car waiting while Jesse...

While she bought it? Yeah, I know. During the autopsy, the medical examiner had noticed a gelatin-like substance in Bill's stomach. Good grief. I've already gone over this because you flipped out. This indicated that perhaps he'd swallowed it. Where'd she buy the capsules, Kristen? God damn it!

Sure enough, the prosecution was able to find evidence that Jesse had purchased empty pill capsules four months before Bill's. Four months! Which I'm kind of like, so I found that in an overview of this case. I couldn't find an actual article talking about like how the hell did they find that yeah i mean i assume there

was like one pharmacy she went to yeah but how do you even remember anyway okay also four months before he died that was before she started up the affair i i don't know. I'm kind of like, mm, okay, team. Okay. The prosecution called a doctor who said that just a pinch of the poison found in Bill's body would be enough to kill a guinea pig in two minutes.

He's not a guinea pig. He's a human man. I think it's... What? It's so weird. What? Super weird. Usually when they say that, it's like an elephant but just a small amount would kill a guinea pig so weird which it's like i don't know what his

point was like right what is this this is a lot of poison friends of bill's testified that he'd been in excellent health and in excellent spirits yeah okay he great mood. Okay, now Brandy gets that she freaked out about that too. As the trial progressed, the judge got more and more annoyed about what a spectacle it was becoming because it was getting nuts. I mean, tons of people were showing up. Everyone wanted a front row seat. I mean, there was nothing interesting going on except for this trial. Yeah. Okay, at one point in this trial and i'm not sure why this was relevant but someone was doing their testimony and just happened to mention that bill had been buried in the underwear that he'd been discovered wearing what does that make sense

like yeah yeah okay okay never changed his undies yeah they didn't change his undies okay again i'm not sure why that was relevant but at any rate the important thing is it was said at trial. Okay. And apparently a bunch of women in the gallery started giggling. And the judge got pissed. Lost it. He said the women had no brains. Oh.

And ordered deputy sheriffs to remove the spectators. Oh. Mm-hmm. Okay. The article also said that some of the women kicked the guards in the shin and i'm like would that really happen yeah who knows who knows anyway the prosecution also pointed out that jesse collected bill's life insurance immediately like she tried to get that before he was even buried wow which i will say if you're the mother of three children because

one of their children had died you're a mother of three children, because one of their children had died, you're a mother of three children, you're a housewife, your sole source of income is gone. I don't think that looks that bad that she would immediately try to get the life insurance. Yeah, no, I don't either. So everybody can shut up. Then there was the testimony of Ed McMahon. Oh. A.K.A. Big Boy. Big Boy.

Ed was asked about his affair with jesse and okay this is where it gets complicated he did not hold back but the journalists did so he got the nickname the kiss and tell cop because his testimony was so explicit wow but a lot of journalists refused to print it. Oh, yeah. Because it's, what year is it? 1933. Yeah. But they were printing all kinds of other crap about her being Lady Godiva with clothes, but no horse. No horse.

So one publication did print up like a special edition booklet thing. Ooh. That was red. Ooh. Very racy. All the racy details. It sold very well. I bet it did.

Do you have the details for us? Okay. I can provide you a little bit okay so here's what i was able to find from ed's testimony he said that bill found out about the affair and obviously was super pissed and he overheard bill say to jesse you better stay away from that boy or i'll break you in half jesse was a bit of a coug. Yeah. In this case. Much like yourself. And yourself. Oh. I'm not as big a coug as you. You're

right. I'm twice the coug you are. But he also said that Bill seemed to know he would die soon. What? Mm-hmm. Elaborate. Ed claimed that he overheard Bill say to jesse if anything should happen to me dr pomeroy and eddie will take care of you all right hmm it's dr pomeroy i don't know town doctor

probably the town doctor who was like this was a heart attack for sure so a lot of his testimony centered around his recent hospitalization. He'd been in the hospital for appendicitis, and Jesse had visited him, like, a lot. And this is where things got awkward. Wait, Big Boy was in the hospital? Yeah, Big Boy had appendicitis, and Jesse was, like, coming in to visit constantly.

This is where things got awkward. The prosecution pressed Ed. He was like, what did you talk about when she visited prosecution pressed ed he was like what did you talk about when she visited you and ed was like banging jesse talked a bunch about sex yeah and the defense objected because the defense's whole deal is like no no no this affair didn't happen this is all fake news and the judge said, you're going to have to be more specific. So the prosecution's like, okay. And he said, do you remember an incident one morning when Mrs. Costello was in your room when Dr. Pomeroy called? And Ed was like, yes, Jesse ran behind the door. Dr. Pomeroy

said, don't be foolish, Jesse, or something like that what and the prosecution said will you tell me what her actions were with you at the hospital and ed goes jesse was very improper yeah which is i'm like okay i'm sure you weren't improper at all yeah once again the defense is like objection and the judge said all right let's have all the boring details and this article from the boston globe concludes that portion of testimony like total cliffhanger by saying and the witness gave them with embarrassment so i gave all the details and he blushed the whole time yeah so i could have dug deeper kind of ran out of time but i tried different articles and a lot of them kind of in this way of like, yep, we got all the details. They're there, gentle reader.

You can't hear this sex stuff. So some of them did go into a little bit of detail. But the bottom line was that Ed's testimony was that they were having an affair. It wasn't much of a secret. And for two and a half months, they were hooking up, and I'm quoting here, pretty near every day. That's a lot of... That's a lot of banging. A lot of sexy times.

He also said that when Bill died, Jessie called him. And she said, it's come. And he said, what's come, Jessie? Had me want to go home. And she said, Bill is oh jesse's defense was complicated defense attorney bill clark attacked ed mcmahon said star search was a piece of shit so the guy was a piece of shit he cheated on his wife oh by the way ed's wife had to testify which seemed unnecessary to me that's harsh um yeah it's like way harsh ty yeah

this guy cheated on his wife he'd betrayed his good friend bill and bill had been nothing but kind to ed this was all made up also bill had killed himself he was very upset about his indigestion and he couldn't take it anymore. He took his own life. His friends who said he was happy were all wrong. And that pharmacist, well, he was a liar. He never warned Jesse about the dangers of cyanide. She walked out of that pharmacy thinking that cyanide was a perfectly effective cleaner for her brass boiler. Really? That's what she bought it for?

That's what she says. Here's the thing. Jesse's younger brother, Andrew, had lived with the Costellos for a little while, and he testified that that was how the Costellos cleaned their boiler. Honest to God. He said he'd seen Bill mix cyanide of potassium with oxalic acid. How do you say that? O-X-A-L-I-C? O-X. One more time. How do you say that? O-X-A-L-I-C? O-X. One more time. O-X-A-L-I-C. Oxalic, yeah.

Oxalic. Okay, so that was the combination that she bought the night before. And her younger brother was like, yeah, that's what they bought to clean the boiler. And I saw Bill mix those two things several times to clean the boiler. How often are you having to clean the boiler? I don't know. But the prosecution was like, oh, yeah? Well, if the Costellos were making these purchases regularly,

why isn't there any record of it? Which, again, I'm like, well, how detailed were the records back then of what you had and hadn't purchased? I don't think there's any record

of what you had purchased. The poor person who had to record that. They bought one T-shirt, immediately did not not buy and then they list everything else in the store another thing that the defense said the prosecution got wrong was the affair it didn't happen oh okay the truth was that jesse and ed had a spiritual connection it was not physical at all you know all the spiritual connections you're constantly having. Ed McMahon just got up there and talked about having to bang her morning,

noon, and night for no reason. What do you mean for no reason? I don't think he would have lied about that. Why not? Why would he? Yeah. It doesn't make him look good. No, it makes him look terrible. When Jessie took the stand, she was pretty effective. In fact, I'm going to say she was very effective. She told the jury that, yes, she'd had four children, but now had only three. The couple's 17- What happened to the other kid? So the couple's 17-month-old son, William Jr., keep your pants on, had died. And after the child died three years ago, Bill wasn't the same. He'd always been serious, but after their son died he became very very quiet he started praying for hours a day then her mother who bill had always loved and gotten along with

died she said there wasn't a day went by after my mother died that bill didn't wish he had gone with her wow as the trial went on jesse would occasionally chit chat with the jury during breaks four of the men on the jury formed a barbershop quartet what uh-huh and they sang songs to the crowd of onlookers like let me call you sweetheart and my wild irish rose what nothing weird at all by the way like a year after the end of this trial the jury got together and had dinner and sang songs together. Super fucking weird. They all had a grand time. Oh my gosh. Finally, at the end of the trial, the defense told the jury, you have no right to try Jesse Costello on suspicion. You have no right to try her on mere probabilities. There is no duty upon this defendant to establish here how Bill Costello met his death, whether by murder, suicide, or accident. Wow.

Mm-hmm. Bill Clark argued that Jessie was a great mother, a great wife. All the evidence against her was circumstantial. It was an outrage. And that doctor who gave that testimony about the livid spots on the body shame on him he was disgraced to his profession well judge friedrich fostick issued his instructions to the jury friedrich fostick i know i was trying to breeze past it he was like hey i know ed m Ed McMahon said some pretty scandalous, sexy stuff in here, guys.

We were all super turned on. I get it. It's fine. Good thing I had this robot. Okay. Okay. I wasn't going to say this, but apparently at one point during this testimony, the judge's chair started squeaking and got all weird. And the judge started laughing.

I guess a spring had, like, broken in his chair. So, yeah, I mean, anyway, things were happening. Things were happening. So he's like, remember, when people are banging each other, they have a tremendous power over one another. Here's what he said. His testimony has been stoutly attacked and defended. It is of great importance, and you will submit it to careful and thorough test.

Much of his testimony deals with sex relations. In judging the truth, it would be well to remember that sexual influence exerts tremendous power over thoughts and actions. Wow. Which, yeah. Yeah. Okay. The jury went into deliberation. They talked it over for about two hours, and they found her not guilty.

Did they really? Yes. What do you think of that? I'm shocked. Yeah. They put up no defense, essentially. Well, what do you mean? They just said all of those people who said that stuff were wrong.

They didn't really give up much of a... Well, what should they have said? I told you what they should have said. No, that was crazy. No, that was the best defense. I mean, what if he did commit suicide? I think it's possible. Yeah, so that's what they said.

Yeah. So what was wrong with that? Because I don't think they gave much of an explanation for how he did it, but I think that that's fine. I think it is possible. Yeah, I do too. I do too. Okay, so here so here especially when you

think about the timing it's the great depression he's probably not providing for his family like he thinks he should be this gives them life insurance his wife is cheating on him that lost a child yeah yeah i think it's very possible so this is why i get mad about the newer articles the newer articles are written in this way of like, oh, she was a crazy slut. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, can we do better than that today? And, you know, I think there is probably an argument for like, there's a good chance she did this. Yeah, I think there's a good chance she did it.

I'm not impressed when they don't include details like he'd lost his son. Yeah. They did have that stuff in the house regularly to clean the the breast maybe and maybe that was wrong maybe that was a lie yeah but you've got to at least include it right that someone testified to that yeah anyway i just don't think this is as cut and dry as no i think there's a lot of questions. So, Jesse Costello was acquitted. She went home to be with her kids, and the press asked how she felt about Ed. Here's what she said.

I love her quotes, by the way. McMahon will never enter this house again. Neither will Mrs. McMahon. They couldn't do it. They wouldn't dare. But I don't mean by that that I am vengeful. I am not the vengeful type. What he said on the witness stand, the brazen way he lied, no longer bothers me. So far as I'm concerned, he's a closed book.

He's no longer important enough to bother about. Wow. Yeah. Damn. Then she said, I can well afford to dismiss him in this way. I am vindicated. He will never be vindicated for what he did. Even those who defended him don't appear to be showing it now.

Dive Pierce, the Peabody chief of police, got upon the witness stand and commended him for his bravery. But I noticed Dive didn't give him a job on the force. Ooh. Yeah. Wow. She told the press that her current concern was supporting her three children. Yeah. Wow. She told the press that her current concern was supporting her three children. Yeah. How would she financially support three children with her husband gone?

Turns out she had some opportunities. Fudge salesman. That had already been taken by Nellie. Oh, I'm sorry. Right off the bat, she got offered $1,100 appear on a new york stage for four days which i'm like what the fuck does that mean yeah just go on stage and like answer questions i don't know i just infer inflation it's almost forty eight thousand dollars for four days work i know not bad i mean it's nothing like what we get no jesse was living the good life oh wait i'm sorry i

almost skipped something then she sold the rides to her life story yeah that netted her 2400 oh i'm sorry oh damn it i got this all messed up okay that was 48 000 the 1100 that was 22 000 anyway we all get it it's a lot of money a lot of money jesse was living the good life she had an agent she had a maid she had tons of money she had a new wardrobe she went on vacations with new friends she did high profile interviews the press really hounded her i found one article that was like uh miss jesse costello bought a hat today that's her that's her eighth new hat wow she had so many opportunities that she had to turn some of them down she was offered 20 grand to perform in a 10-week burlesque show oh adjusted for inflation brandy

why are you moving that's what she's gonna do no with the tassels almost almost four hundred thousand dollars she turned it down? Yeah. Wow. It didn't seem classy. Which, again, the modern articles are like, if you can believe it, she turned it down. It's like, oh. So this woman has to do whatever.

Whatever. Yeah. Again, if she's a murderer, then I feel weird about defending her. And she's probably a murderer. She probably is a murderer. But I don't like the way she's being written about. Yeah. Well, because if she was a dude, she wouldn't be written about that no exactly exactly so you know

she's getting all these offers coming in she's turning down some of them but here's the thing down the tassels it's really weird to see someone in a sweatshirt trying to move her boobs around those things aren't trying to move my boobs. I was trying to move my tassels. Do you always have tassels hidden on your sweatshirt? I'm never not wearing tassels. So the thing was, a lot of people really hated Jesse Costello. And they thought she was a murderer. And a murderer who'd gotten away with it.

So they didn't like the idea that she was profiting off of this story. So a lot of people who were in high up positions like, you know, made those opportunities go bye bye. Yeah. So the opportunities to make money started to dry up. Jesse was riding high for a little while, but she wasn't famous, famous. She was a flash in the pan. All of a sudden the money ran out. People weren't interested in her anymore. What'd she do? They'd all heard the story. So she went back to the burlesque place and she's like, hey guys, I'm ready to dance now.

I'm just like Brandy. I've always got tassels on no matter what I'm wearing, no matter what I'm doing. Vacuuming? Tassels. Did you think they had vacuums back in 1933? Yeah. All right. I have no idea. And they were like, really? Given your enthusiasm for vacuums back in 1933 yeah all right i have no idea and they were like really given your enthusiasm for vacuums you don't know i don't know i know and i love vacuums

yeah guys norm you fact to find out when the vacuum was invented thank you 1901 oh wow wow 30 years in why are you acting like you knew that that shocks me 1901 okay people had floor needs for a long time well i know they had the need i mean we had the need for speed but you know cars didn't come along until pretty late so she goes back to the burlesque place she's like hey guys i'm ready to dance now and they're like and you are yeah so jesse had to do something she had to get back on top so in october of 1933 she announced that she'd found jesus oh she was like hey everybody not what i thought you were gonna say what i don't know but that's probably the last thing i thought you were gonna say found a bucket of money dinosaur bones hey that'd be oh can you imagine i love dinosaurs the jessica stellasaurus she's like hey everybody i'm super religious now really into mr jesus ask me anything

and in fact i'm teaming up with a famous evangelist mrs amy simple mcpherson okay so i was like all right that's nobody but actually amy simple mcpherson is a totally fascinating person at the time she was one of the most famous people living yeah i know the name oh do you see i i had no idea so she's like the OG evangelist. She was famous for founding the Four Square Church and was one of the first people to really bring religion to the masses via media. So she was a big radio person. I was going to say, yeah, she had a radio program. So this was a huge opportunity.

And Jessie blew it. Oh, she did? Would she cuss on the Jesus radio? No. So Jessie and Amy would be up there singing hymns. And Jesse blew it. Oh, she did? Would she cuss on the Jesus radio? No. So Jesse and Amy would be up there singing hymns. And again, don't love the way the modern articles are written about like, she's like smacking her lips and her hips are sweating. So yeah, evidently Jesse's like bringing sexy back to church.

And the thing I wonder about is like, yeah, maybe she was doing that. Maybe, maybe it's true. That's the hard thing is like yeah maybe she was doing that maybe maybe it's true that's the hard thing is like maybe it's all accurate yeah or maybe maybe people are too hard on her maybe amy didn't like sharing the spotlight maybe who knows but anyway uh amy was like i just spoke to the lord he isn't into you please pack your things and go so eventually jesse and her children were evicted from the big home that they were living in. And they were left to live on the pension that Jesse was due as a widow of a veteran. Wow. For many years, Jesse lived a quiet life with no media attention.

But then one day, a farmer from New Hampshire showed up at her apartment. He told her that he had a little money and that he could support her and the children then he proposed no just like that uh-huh and she said yes she said no oh thank god but again okay i know i'm being a broken record so i'm sorry but the articles are like and she had the nerve to say no. He's a stranger. Probably because he was a farmer. Probably because he was a. No, he's a fucking stranger. It's like, all right, bitch, you go marry someone you don't know who showed up at your doorstep.

Like, what the hell? So weird. So this made the news. And when a reporter asked why. It made the news that she said no? Yes. When a stranger asked to marry her? Yes. Now, the article I read said no yes when a stranger asked to marry her yes now the

article i read said it was a stranger said he just showed up but like yeah bottom line it wasn't like oh they'd been courting each other for a while no showed up a reporter asked her why she'd turned down the proposal and she said i shall climb again no but she didn't she and her children ended up on welfare and she died in 1971 when she was 68 years old but her funeral was huge like 200 people showed up the mayor was there i mean yeah and that's the story of the smiling widow wow that was so good I thought you'd like that. You love it. Well, you couldn't keep your pants on. Sorry. Norman, do we have any questions from the Discord? We sure do.

Norman, did you just get a fresh haircut? Oh, you're looking so fresh. Yeah, my hair was real shaggy. It was so bad. I looked like Barton Fink. Who's that? Kristen. Barton Fink. Who's that? Kristen. Barton Fink.

Yeah. Do you know who that is? Kristen. That's what he looks like. That's what you look like. Obscure. I think it's a Coen Brothers movie. Yeah, it is.

Yeah. Obscure Coen Brothers movie. Yes. Do you have questions from the Discord? How would a listener be able to ask their own question oh what a weird way of asking that if someone listening right now wanted to ask a question burning question well all they have to do is sign up for our patreon at the five dollar level or higher because that gets you into the discord and at the end of our episodes norm

goes to the discord for us and says hey guys got any questions got any quapes yeah and uh we answer some of them so head on over to uh patreon.com slash lgtc podcast today and you know sign up flirty qwerty fifi foferty wants to know what your favorite seasonal beverage is oh oh i have mine i think it's gonna be unpopular what is it eggnog well no i love eggnog i love eggnog but i think people think it's really gross people find it very polarizing yeah i'm not a fan of eggnog i love eggnog i do too i think it's so good spicy oh yeah you know what i i used to be obsessed with it and you can't find it anywhere diet sierra mist cranberry splash it it's a seasonal thing i'm googling this okay it actually exists no what are you it appears to be real okay should i tell my story yes okay so i mean like 12 years ago when i was working at the newspaper we had our

annual holiday party and of course it's a newspaper so it's cheap as hell so it's a potluck and someone brought in diet sierra mist cranberry splash and my life was changed i loved it loved it and so i was like oh my gosh i've got to get some more of this okay i became obsessed i drank it in the morning drank it in the evening drank it at supper time constantly i had a therm had a thermos, like, usually for coffee. No, it was filled with diet serumist cranberry splash. Loved it. One day, this was when Norman and I were first dating. Norman was going to go to the grocery store.

And I was like, hey, can you please pick up diet serumist cranberry splash? He's like, sure, no problem. He goes. And I get a call from him. And he's like, yeah, there goes and i get a call from him and he's like yeah there's no diet it's not here and i had regular if i recall yeah they had regular i was like no i want the diet you're like that's never existed that's never been a thing so i went to my fridge because you know i obviously didn't let myself run out yeah i go i pull it out and sure enough it wasn't diet it was regular and

i was like did i did i imagine the diet and the whole time norm was like yeah you imagined it that's you were never drinking diet anything and i was like what years went by i want to say 10 years passed and one day i was walking through the grocery store and I saw it. Diet Sierra Mist Cranberry Splash. You were vindicated. I took that home, cradled it like a baby, ran into the house, held it above my head. It does exist! It was a Christmas miracle.

I can't find it anymore, though. I just got onto Hy-Vee's website and they do not carry it. Yeah, no one carries it. And they carry like everything. It's because it's not real. No find it anymore though. I just got onto Hy-Vee's website and they do not carry it. Yeah, no one carries it. They carry like everything. It's not real. No, it's real. You just can't find it. Have you considered doing a Sierra Mist, a Diet Sierra Mist and a Diet Cranberry Cocktail and doing like your own little... Yeah, that's a good idea.

How much time do you think I have on my list? I just think you'd have a similar result. I know. It would and be a lot easier to find. They make this diet cranberry cocktail now that's like five calories per one cup serving. It's delicious, too. Okay. Okay.

Just splash it in your diet serum. Yeah, a little splashy. Okay. I'm thinking about doing it now. That sounds so good. All right. Canada Dry does make diet cranberry ginger no sounds terrible

lester d88 wants to know what usually agreed upon good movie do you dislike i mean lord of the rings anything yeah i think that's gotta be it yeah people fucking love that thing i know snooze 10 minutes in fell asleep norm you got one had a great nap basically you slept i have to think about that i will say i'm not a big fan of old movies. Yeah, you're not. Like Citizen Kane or On the Waterfront.

Yeah, yeah. People are like, oh, these are classics. And I just think they're boring. You know what classic film I've never seen? Gone with the Wind? Yeah. Yeah. It sucks.

No, it doesn't suck. It's terrible. It's so fucking long, first of all. There we go. That's my pick, Gone with the wind. Your sister has a question, Brandy. It's actually really more about me, so maybe I shouldn't ask this. Read it.

If Die Hard isn't a Christmas movie, does that mean Gremlins isn't either? Gremlins is absolutely a Christmas movie. Yeah, and so is Die Hard. So is Die Hard. I'd say Gremlins is more either. Gremlins is absolutely a Christmas movie. Yeah, and so is Die Hard. So is Die Hard. I'd say Gremlins is more of a Christmas movie than Die Hard. No, they are both equally Christmas movies. No. The theme is not Christmas.

I'm sorry. Gremlins more so because he gets Gizmo as an early Christmas gift. Yeah. So Gremlins, I can see. Die Hard, no. Okay okay i have a spin-off question okay is the nightmare before christmas a halloween movie or a christmas movie it's a christmas movie no halloween it's both it's both oh you got it you got me it's both you're watching them both it's both it is okay anna barbs wants to know did you pass your driver's test on the first try

oh i actually have a so what so i passed my learner's permit test on the first try and then for my learner's permit i went to driver's ed and got my restricted license. And then my restricted license turned into my full driver's license on my 16th birthday. So I never had to go take another test. Oh, if you had your restricted, it automatically turned into a full unrestricted license when you turn 16. If you had taken driver's ed, then that must have been what happened to me because I don't remember taking. Now, I remember taking it in North Carolina and it was a shit show. Oh, really? Yes.

So, well, first of all, it was a shit show because I was unprepared. So I walked in and like I didn't have all the paperwork. So I had to leave. And then I came back and I went through everything, but I didn't have a check on me. And they only accepted checks. So then I had to leave. I was pissed. Yeah.

Pissed. Which looking back, it's like, I don't know what to tell myself. check on me and they only accepted checks so then i had to leave i was pissed yeah pissed which looking back it's like i don't know what to tell myself but i remember i was super arrogant so i didn't study at all excellent sounds like kristin does sound like kristin and uh yeah i failed the first time because i didn't study at all. So I had to go study and then come back. I was shocked the requirements to drive in Kansas when you told me like how little requirement there was. Yeah, there's almost none. It's crazy. North Carolina is much more difficult.

I took a written test when I got my learner's permit. And then I took driver's ed and it automatically then turned into my driver's license. Right, but driver's ed is not required. No. If you don't take driver's ed, you have to go take an actual driving test. So driver's ed is required in North Carolina, and a driving test is required.

Wow. Yeah, that seems like the way it should be. It's kind of normal. Yeah. Let's see. Rachel says, I'm making soup. Oh, I like soup. That's her only comment. No, there's not a question? I'm just kidding says i'm making soup oh i like that's her only comment i'm making soup what is your favorite soup winter meal

soup slash winter meal okay i used to have a favorite soup that you can't get anymore diet sierra miss cranberry splash in a bowl no is that my favorite restaurant that you make fun of oh mimi's cafe yeah i had this corn chowder that was so fucking good. And all the Mimi's Cafes are gone now. Yeah, because it was only you and 85-year-old women going there. I can't believe you liked Mimi's Cafe. I loved it so much. Maybe you can come over and I'll give you a couple slices of honeydew and some cottage cheese.

Honeydew is the one melon I don't like. It doesn't taste like anything. Okay. The one melon I don't like. You just like so many. I love fruit. Raspberries? No. Honeydew? No. Kiwi? Yes. You do like kiwi? I like kiwi. Okay. Full of surprises. Bananas? Love. Okay. Well, I'm losing this battle so I'll stop here come at me kristen you named the two fruits i don't like mangoes like them papayas like it so you said you do like cantaloupe cantaloupe is my favorite fruit right tell you what you come

if you come over slice a cantaloupe yeah little bowl of cottage cheese oh grilled chicken no seasoning and a free poly dent brandy when we're old enough to where's my muffin you came with it oh how dare you okay so corn chowder for Brandy. Kristen? I mean, I kind of like all soups, but yeah, corn chowder is delicious. I mean, if I had to... I will say Kristen loves soup. I do too. She's a big soup fan. I'm not

a big soup guy, but lobster bisque is hands down the best soup ever made. I've never had lobster bisque. Brandy. Is it cold? Shrimp bisque is fine too. That's a gazpacho nobody likes that yeah it's got a lot of uh was it sherry yeah it has a ton of sherry in it oh it's delicious i don't know i don't know if i'd like it it's creamy

do you not like seafood i love seafood oh you'd like it then no she likes she just likes like 50 percent of things i don't like creamy but corn chowder i know and i like baked potato soup but i'm not a big clam chowder person and i actually like clams uh this is a question from anna barbs i don't know what it means, but maybe you two do. Can we hear more about Kristen's ball? My ball? Your ball. Does she mean Kristen Ball? Have we talked about Kristen Ball?

Can we hear more about Kristen Ball? Yeah, Kristen Ball. Sorry, I thought you said Kristen Ball. When did we talk about that? I have no idea what we talked about. It must have been a long time ago. Is this some sport you guys may have? No.

It's not the game we used to play. As if I would ever talked about it. It was a long time ago. Is this some sport you guys may have? It's not the game we used to play. As if I would ever invent a sport. It was like a friend trivia game that we used to play. Kristen Ball? Yeah, so like the newlywed game, you know, different friends would pair off and I'd like go ask, we'd always go back to my bathroom. Yeah. Yeah.

And I'd take half of them, ask them the question, you know, blah, blah, blah. It was fun. It was set up very much like the newlywed game. It was a newlywed rip-off. Yeah, and we called it Kristen Ball. Now what about your ball? Kristen's ball. Yeah, how's your ball, Kristen? It's doing great, thank you

for asking. How's your muffin? When you, at your old job, didn't you have one of those big exercise balls that you used to sit on? You were one of those. No. You sat on an exercise ball office chair. You did.

You had one. You freak. I had one. You freak. I had one, but there was this one day. Okay. So there were, first of all, my mom made fun of me. She called it a douche ball.

Yeah, it is. So there were a bunch of us in the office that had them. My abs are so important to me that I must bring an exercise ball to my desk. All right, all right. It's so much healthier. That's the least bit surprising is that I have a treadmill desk, you douche. It's so much healthier, you guys. How much does it bother you that I have a treadmill desk?

It's so douchey. I love my treadmill desk. How much were you bothered by my salad today at lunch oh i hated your salad i was so glad when you ate my stromboli your salad your salad was my salad was disgusting like they drowned it in your dressing leaves drowned in dressing yeah it was not good brandy and i always get we go to this local oh it's so good and we always they have strombolis there and they are amazing the best i'm sorry that i decided to get a salad i learned my lesson clearly that was the only salad that has ever been made there because the guy had no idea how much dressing goes on it no but what were what were we talking about your your exercise

oh okay okay so one day i'm in the office, and again, a lot of people had these things, and all of a sudden we heard this, and then thud. Somebody popped their ball? The ball had exploded under her butt, and she went down like a big dog. Oh, no. She probably blowed up too much. She over-inflated her ball that's what i said when she was down on the ground with her butt broken in two i was like oh you probably

messed up this is probably all your fault no no so it scared me and i was like well i don't want to have that happen she looked really startled i mean the other thing was it was at the university so we were always doing active shooter drills so So you hear a bang like that, and you're like, everybody down! I don't get how people do the standing desks, the treadmill desks, the exercise ball seat. I can't do it. All right, then don't. I just got a super comfy office chair, and that's all I need. You douche.

You stand for your job. Are you a dou comfy office chair, and that's all I need. You douche. You stand for your job. Are you a douche? Yeah, I do stand for my job. I'm also not at a desk. She has to stand for her job. Yeah, the douchey thing for me would be to have one of those hairstylist saddle things. Have you seen those? No, what's that?

They're so fucking ridiculous. I'm going to show you. A saddle? Yes. It's a saddle, it like gets tall and then you mount it and you roll around the back of your client well but what about people who can't stand that long that's good what do you mean no i mean no you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen wow hey it's hard business. I guess so.

Brandy's kicking you out. Do you guys want any more questions? Let's do one more. Yeah. Do you want one more? Yeah. The best one. Yeah, Norm has decided this question is the best one.

I've been holding the best one for last. Jordan wants to know, do you have any weird family traditions for the holiday? Weird family traditions. I don't know if it's weird my family wears um pajamas on christmas morning i don't know if it's weird but my family opens presents on christmas no that's not weird that's normal is it yeah like we all like go to my mom's house nobody wakes up there but we go in our pajamas yeah oh so you like leave the house in pajamas and drive somewhere yeah that's a little different yeah it's different but it's not like weird yeah so you fail okay

i think that qualifies i think it's kind of odd answer yeah it's different i don't know that we have any odd ones kirsten's family is very lovely no yeah you guys spend the night if you do christmas at your parents house yeah we spend the night, you guys spend the night, if you do Christmas at your parents' house, we spend the night there. Yeah, we spend the night. We're weird, you're adults. Yeah.

The weirdest part is we're all in the same bed. No, yes! Yeah, it's pretty odd. I'm used to it now, though.

Love, gotta live with DP. Yeah. Ooh. What were you gonna say? I said Kristen's family's very lovey. Yeah,

Norm didn't get a lot of hugs as a kid, so he thinks we're very strange. It's true. The only tradition my family has is breakfast casserole, a.k.a. sausage brunch. Your family eats sausage brunch? We call it breakfast casserole. I was shocked. Every Christmas morning, we have breakfast casserole. I remember when I went over there for the first Christmas, I was stunned because I was shocked. Every Christmas morning we have breakfast casserole. Wow. I remember when I went over there for the first Christmas

I was stunned because I was like, is this something that everyone does? And that's probably why I started calling it sausage brunch. Like, or just assuming that everyone knew it. I mean, I thought it was weird you called it sausage brunch. Those are good questions.

Take it away. all right let's do some supreme court induction let's but if you could stall for one second while i pull up my classic brandy doesn't have the tab open you guys here's the deal if you want to be a part of this you got to join up at the supreme court level on patreon if you want to be in our gang. Our gang. Our gang. What? I don't know what song. The Spice Girls song.

No. Yes. Sing more. If you want to be in our gang. Our gang. Our gang. You want to be in our gang. Oh, yeah.

You want to be. Yes. I'm the leader. I think it's my gang. I'm the leader. I'm the leader of the band. Try to stop me now. I love that song. Sorry for looking at you like that.

Okay, guys, this week we are continuing our theme of reading names and your favorite TV shows. Excellent. This week we would like you to please stand and cover one eye as if you are doing an optical exam. All right. Leah. Anything ghost story exam. All right. Leah. Anything ghost story related. Kiki. Law and order.

Bria. Dexter. Mary. Forensic files. Jen. Oh, Jen cheated. A tie between Antiques Roadshow, Landscape slash Portrait Artist of the Year. What?

That's not a show. What the fuck is that? Or Haunting of Hill House. Ooh. Okay, Jen, all right. I love Antiques Roadshow. Well, me too. Mindy.

City Confidential. Neptune. Quantum Leap, Cold Case, and the Golden Girls. We got another cheater. Yeah, cheaters. Too many cheaters. You get one favorite show, people. Katie.

The Office. Lori Otz. The Nanny. Nephanu twin peaks tanner the office julia full metal alchemist brotherhood what the fuck is that i don't know i don't know norman do you know what that is what's it called full metal alchemist brotherhood Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Welcome to the Supreme Court. All right. Hey, guys. It's me, Brandi.

Hey. Who? I'm here to do my weekly thank you for your support. We appreciate it a lot. Why are you going so slow? Do you think it sounds more sincere? I do. I do.

a lot. Why are you going so slow? Do you think it sounds more sincere? I do. Thank you for your support, guys. If you're looking for other ways to support us, please head on over to our social media.

We're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Reddit, YouTube, Patreon, of course. After you've done all that,

subscribe to our podcast, wherever you listen, and then head on over to Apple podcasts, leave us a rating, leave us a review, and then, you know, join us next week when we'll be experts on two whole new topics. Podcast adjourned. And now for a note about our process.

I read a bunch of stuff, then regurgitate it all back up in my very limited vocabulary. And I copy and paste from the best sources on the web and sometimes Wikipedia. So we owe a huge thank you to the real experts. For this episode, I got my info from newspapers.com, the New England Historical Society, and the lineup.com. And I got my info from the New York Daily News, the Lawrence Journal World, the Court Record, and Wikipedia. For a full list of our sources, visit lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are of course ours, but please don't take our word for it lgtcpodcast.com. Any errors are, of course, ours. But please don't take our word for it. Go read their stuff.