Lex Fridman Podcast - #249 – Albert Bourla: Pfizer CEO

Episode Date: December 18, 2021

Albert Bourla is the Chairman and CEO of Pfizer. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Notion: https://notion.com/startups to get up to $1000 off team plan - Calm: https://calm.com/lex to get 40% off - Hunter Douglas: https://www.hunterdouglas.com/lex to get a free design guide - LMNT: https://drinkLMNT.com/lex to get free sample pack - Grammarly: https://grammarly.com/lex to get 20% off premium EPISODE LINKS: Albert's Twitter: https://twitter.com/AlbertBourla Pfizer's Website: https://www.pfizer.com/ PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (10:08) - Clinical trials (26:12) - Trust (45:59) - Safety (56:16) - Booster shots (59:09) - Mandates (1:05:39) - Antivirals (1:10:38) - Hope for future

The following is a conversation with Albert Burla, CEO of Pfizer. If you would like to skip ahead to our conversation, the timestamps is always or below. But if not, please allow me to say a few words about truth and human nature. Specifically, about two groups of people throughout history that seek to lay claim to the truth. The first group will tell you that only they possess the truth, that the government will save you, the company will save you, the science, the authorities, the experts, the institutions will save you. The second group too will tell you that only they possess the truth, that the government will hurt you, the company will hurt you,

the science, the authorities, the experts, the institutions will hurt you. Both groups have the benevolent and the malevolent, their heroes and their charlatans, and I think the hard truth is that no one in this world can tell you with absolute certainty which is which. You have to use your mind. This is the burden of being human, of being free. Don't blindly follow any leader, neither the Emperor nor the martyr who points out that the Emperor has no clothes. And then there's the lessons of history. Vaccines have saved hundreds of millions of lives in the past century, and in general, the advance of medicine has saved billions of lives. If you ignore the power of science, you're not being honest with the lessons of history. And if you ignore the corrupting nature of power and money within institutions, including governments and companies that led to the suffering

and death of hundreds of millions in the past century, you are once again not being honest with the lessons of history. I announced that I will be having this conversation with Albert Burla, Pfizer CEO, and a lot of people wrote to me. I would like to say that I was an AM and always will be listening and learning with an open mind from everyone. My own opinion worth little as it is is that the development of the COVID vaccines is one of the greatest accomplishments of science in recent history.

For the rest, from safety and efficacy to policy and economics, I stand humbled before a complicated world full of fear and anger. A small number of malicious people from all walks of life will use that fear and anger to divide us, because the division makes them money and gives them power. I took two shots of the Pfizer vaccine. This was my decision. I don't ever want to force this on anyone, and I certainly don't want to dismiss your concerns or worse you as a person if you choose not to get vaccinated. I can assure you one thing, in this conversation and in any conversation, the choice of questions I ask and words I say is mine and mine alone.

When my words fall short, as they often do, it is only because of the limitations of my mind and of my speaking ability. It is not due to pressure or fear. I'm not afraid of anyone. I cannot be bought by anyone, with money, power or fame. I hope to prove this to you and to myself in the coming years. This life is short, and to me, without integrity, it is not worth living. People sometimes talk down to me, call me naive.

Perhaps they are right, but it is who I am. I think this life, this world, this, our human civilization is beautiful. And as the Stiefsky said, beauty will save the world. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description. It's the best way to support this podcast. And now onto the full ad reads. As always, no ads in the middle. I tried to make these interesting, but if you skipped them, please still check out our sponsors. I enjoy their stuff. Maybe you will too.

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Do more than just spell check. Get your point across more effectively with Grammarly Premium, get 20% off, Grammarly Premium by signing up at Grammarly.com slash Lex, that's 20% off at Grammarly.com slash Lex. This is the Lex Friedman podcast and here is my conversation with Albert Borla. The development of the COVID-19 vaccine was one of the greatest accomplishments of science in recent history, no matter what, that should give people hope for the future. And yet, it is more resource of division.

I hope we can discuss both the inspiring and the difficult ideas in this conversation so that we can do our small part in healing this division. I hope so. Take me through the day of November 8th 2020 when the Pfizer team were waiting for the results of the Phase 3 clinical trials. We had assembled in a very small office that we are having in Connecticut, very few people. There were five, I think. And in another place, what we call the data monitoring committee, which is a group of experts, independent experts, they are on Pfizer, we're going to have the opportunity to unblind the data,

and then tell us if the study needs to continue or if it is successful or if it fails and we were waiting for their call. So the call came a little bit later on what we expected which created a lot of anxiety to all of us but came around I think two o'clock. You're just sitting there waiting or are you feeling? Sitting there waiting and teasing one another sitting there waiting, what were you feeling? Sitting there waiting and teasing one another, drinking coffee, making jokes. So how did you feel like when you heard the results, the successful results? Free, liberated, happy, like if a huge weight that was on my shoulders was lifted. I heard you said, I love you to the team.

I did. This is how we speak in Mediterranean. Listen, maybe it's the Russian thing too. I love love, so I appreciate that kind of celebration. So looking back from that moment to before, how much did it cost to develop the Pfizer BioNTech vaccine? What was it like making the decision to make that investment when the risk is very high and you don't know if it's going to be successful?

You know, we do a lot of that anyway. This is what we do in our daily work. Είμαστε πολύ σημαντικά, αυτό είναι το πιο που θα κάνουμε σήμερα, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια,

που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, που θα κάνουμε χρόνια, Υπάρχει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να πει να decision to make in the context of what we were living at that time. It was pandemic, people were scared, we were scared, we didn't know how tomorrow will look like, we were living unprecedented situations, and we knew that we have capabilities that may help. So there was not a second question or choice, we go all in. When you make decisions like that, you're the CEO of a company that needs to make money and that hopes to do a lot of good in the world.

How much of both of those things are part of the calculation? So when you said it was a obvious choice, I think you've said a bunch of things of the kind of saying we need to go all in, sort of very boldly diving in. How much was that that the world is facing uncertainty and fear and potentially destructive pandemic in the early days, just when you're seeing the full uncertainty before us, don't know how it's going to enrol. And how much of it is this may also be a good financial decision to take this risk? Yeah, I think about it all the time, and I know very well, but if you focus too much on making money,

you will never make. You should focus in what is the real value driver. And the real value driver, Υπάρχει να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο, και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο, και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο και να βγει το μάτσο πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει πει what we were focusing 100% was how to bring a solution to the world, but will help all of us change the way the fear that was bring hope to the world. And as always, when you do that, you will have good returns as well. On a philosophical level, on a human level, do you ever worry that the pressure to cover the costs that were invested to develop a new drug to develop this vaccine harms your ability to conduct unbiased studies? Ah, not at all, because the studies are highly regulated. Everybody knows what regulators and when I say regulators, FDA, European, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ to invest and what is the chances that I'm going to lose them. But what you can do is to change the rules of the game so that you won't lose the money. There are very well-established methodologies that would say with very high precision, if your medicine is effective, if your medicine is safe.

And those are there for all and all playing with the same rules. Do you have an intuition about why is the FDA trying to get 75 years to release the Pfizer data, the trying to request that it will not be released for 75 years? And then maybe the broader version of that question is, do you think people should have sort of full transparency and immediate access to the data, on the scale of weeks, not years? I think the relations with regulators, they have been always very transparent and there are a lot of laws that they are forcing regulators and companies to put out their interactions and what exactly was discussed. Now, to go into specific details of some discussions, I don't know what is

the reason that FDA wants to take that time, and I'm sure they have very good reasons. Well, let me just say my side of it. It doesn't look like a good reason. It looks like maybe it's because I come from the Soviet Union. Now, this is not you saying this. This is me saying this. Is there seems to be a bureaucracy that gets in the way of transparency. That's always the challenge with government. So government is very good at setting rules and making sure there's oversight of companies

and people and so on. But they create, they slow things down, which is a feature and a bug. And in this case, they slow down so much. I think the reason they said it at 75 years is because they set a rate of being able to only review 500 pages of data a day or something like that. And it's a very kind of bureaucratic thing. Where in reality, you could just show the data. And it's not like something is being hidden, but in the battle to win people's trust, to inspire them with science. It feels

like transparency is one of the most beautiful things. One of the most powerful things that the FDA has. FDA has the potential to be one of the great institutions of our country. And this is one example that it feels to me like a failure. So when you're perspective, you're saying, I'm sure they have a good reason. So to you, the FDA is this black box that you submit things to,

once they approve, you know that those are the rules, it's approved, that's it. But this is not a black box, we know very well what is the process, everybody knows very well, what are the processes. The review process also, it is very detailed, they have scientists of very, very high caliber, not every regulator in the world, but the Europeans, the the breeds, the FDA clearly, they have very, very high caliber of scientists that they are going into a lot of details and also Basically everything for a study is really

released by law in the Specifications of the product, but it's a very detailed document. But it is issued and has basically the essence of everything was discussed. I don't know about specific documents if take them time to release, but clearly this is not a black box type of process. A lot of this stuff is, how do you effectively communicate to the world about the incredible signs that's been done, about the processes that were followed? Arguably.

And sometimes it's just in eloquence in communication. It's not that there's a failure of process, it's in eloquence communication and silence. Silence in the moment when clearly a lot of people are bothered and have questions. This is when you speak out and you explain exactly why as opposed to letting the sort of distrust build up and linger, because the result is there's a very large percent of the population that just divides people and science suffers, I think. And also the effectiveness of solutions suffers like the vaccine and so on.

I asked a few folks, I know if they had challenging questions for you. I'm sure many of them answer your call. Yeah, yeah, you know, many friendly folks out there. By the way, I'm sweating not because this is a difficult conversation it is, but it's also hot in here for the record. So one of the folks is Mr. Jordan Peterson. I don't know if you know who that is. He's a psychologist and intellectual and author. He suggested to me that I raised the concern that there's a close working relationship

between Pfizer, FDA, and CDC. So we talked about FDA. Do you worry that this affects both positive and negative? Pfizer's chances of getting drugs approved. The fact that there's people that worked at the FDA, that now work a Pfizer, Pfizer, FDA, that there's people that work at FDA, that now work a Pfizer, Pfizer FDA, that there's a kind of pipeline. Does this worry you that it affects your ability to do great unbiased work?

I have zero doubts that this is not affecting at all their ability to be unbiased and regulate. And in order to, for the system, also reinforces that by creating significant time barriers if someone moves from an industry. To FDA, she won't be able to deal with topics for a period of time and then for even an enhanced period of time with topics that are related with the company he or she may come from. I think these regulators are very strict, right, Lyson. If anything, I feel sometimes that maybe they should be a little bit more open-minded, particularly when it comes to new

technologies rather than trying to judge and implement the same framework of evaluation of technologies to all. They are always as regulators in the conservative side, but always, always. They are unbiased and they are trying the best. Then it's not only one or two people. They have processes to make sure that they are self-tax and balances within the agencies, both in CDC and in the FDA. Difficult decisions, they bring external experts that they should express. Easy decisions, they are internal experts that are debating a lot, and if there are disagreements

they elevate them. So I think it's, we are lucky to have good regulators. I think I agree with what you said before, as with all governmental agencies, there is bureaucracy. And the bureaucracy needs to be addressed. And by saying, bureaucracy is not relaxing the bar. The bar needs to remain high, but being focusing on what matters matters rather than on the detail. So you don't, you know, I've been reading quite a bit about history. You don't worry about

human nature and corruption that can seepin. You're saying, institutionally, there's protections against this. I think there is always the fear of corruption, particularly when you speak about public servants, but clearly the risk is very different country by country. And speaking about an agency, I think the regulatory agencies have a very good track record and history of the US of Europe of England of very, very good track record of integrity. It's something I think about. So I grew up in the Soviet Union and I need to perhaps introspect this a little bit. But when I was growing up ethically, there was a sense that bribery is the only way you

can get stuff done. That was the system of the time. You get pulled over by a police officer, obviously you need to bribe them. It was the way of life. And then coming to this country, it was beautiful to see that the rule of law had so much power. And ultimately, the rule of law when enacted, when it holds up, it gives people freedom to do the best work of their lives, but there's still human nature. And that worries me a lot here. And again, it goes back to the perception and the communication when there's people that have worked at Pfizer and an FDA at the CDC, you know, you look

at the resume, they have those things on the resume, it worries people. Are these great leaders that we are supposed to see as authorities? Are they playing a game on us? I would say that I recognize what you said about what happened in or what I'm I'm sure that what you described in the country that you're coming from it was the how you experienced it and I know that there are other countries that you need to do these things to do your job I don't think is the case in in this country particularly when it comes to those ages that you mentioned. I think they

have a very high track record. And also, I don't think that there are a lot of people that they are worried about it or doubt it. I'm sure, like everywhere, there will be a minority, but the vast majority of the Americans, the vast majority of the Europeans, the vast majority of the Brits, the vast majority of the Israelis, they trust what FDA, OREMA, or CDC, or AMI-TRA would say. Still, there's currently a distrust of big farmer in the public. Maybe this is something I'd love to hear your comment on. There's distrust of science when it's tangled up with corporations and government institutions, like we've talked about

But you have they have to be entangled to achieve scale oversight and to achieve the kind of scale that Pfizer's they've been able to accomplish How can Pfizer regain the public trust? How can you regain the public trust? Do you think? Not regain, but sort of take steps to increase the public trust. Reputation is something that you can lose in buckets, but you can end in back in drops. And once you lost it, you are going to take a lot of effort to bring it back. And the pharmaceutical industry lost it. It's clear that the reputation of the Είχαμε να βάθει πολλοί για να βάθει για να βάθει. Είχα δηλαδή είναι με την προσπαθή του αυτοσιακή. Αυτό που χρησιμοποιήσω και ευχαριστώ,

γιατί θα δηλαδή εξαγγήθηκε ότι αυτοσιακή είναι πολύ αυτοσιακή. Τώρα, αυτό που πως, εξαγγήθηκε ότι, αν είναι ένα λεσσό που αρχρέσει από τα λεσθόν που θα βγει σε κόβι, είναι η υποσυγή του συγκρατή του πληροδογματικού. Υπάρχει ότι ήταν το πληροδογματικό που είχκόντας, όταν δεν έχουμε χρειακόντας, χρειακόντας, χρειακόντας, χρειακόντας, χρειακόντας, και ότι χρειακόντας, το δυνατότημα, το δυνατότημα, το δυνατότημα, το δυνατότημα, το δυνατότημα, το δυνατότημα, το σκέφηση, η σκέφηση, η σκέφηση, η σκέφηση.

Αυτό που αφεκτικά, πολύ ωραία, η σκέφηση, σκέφηση, και η σκέφηση. Υπάρχει να κάνει την εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική εξαιρετική that will remain so. We need to earn it every day, every day with everything we do, with everything we say, with the way we behave. And I hope that will last a vacation and we will do that. You've been a Pfizer for 28 years, time flies when you're having fun. And you've become CEO in 2019. It is the company you love, a company you believe in. It's a company that has developed drugs that has helped millions of people. So let me ask yet another hard question. On this topic of reputation, in 2009 Pfizer pleaded guilty to the illegal marketing of arthritis drug bextra and agreed to a $2.3 billion settlement. How do you make sense of the fact that this happened to a company you love and that you believe

in? Yes. The backstruck case in 2009 was related to things that happened in 2003. And the things that happened in 2003 were things that basically several of our apps did off-label promotion. So they spoke about with the physicians about off-label use of the product and they should do. And can you clarify, so off-label are things that the FDA didn't approve extra stuff.

You basically say this drug does extra stuff that the FDA never approved. Correct. And this is something that it is allowed when physicians are speaking to physicians, but it is not allowed for the pharmaceutical companies to refer to this studies, because usually are studies that are happening with label. And apparently several of our apps in 2003, they did it. And we had to settle in 2009 and we paid a very big fine, as you said. The fine was related not to the severity of the contact, but the size of the revenues. So the fines are, if Bector was a small product, we would get a small fine. Bector was a very big product and we got a very large fine. Very bad. What happened in 2003?

I don't think that these things happened since then. We have a stellar record from 2009 until now of complying with every single regulation and rule. We have internal processes to make sure that these are not happening by individuals that may have an interest. και οι προσσότερον πρόσσσο να προσσσορήσουν ότι αυτά δεν είναι πραγματικά αλλά οι διαβίτσεις που μπορούν να υπάρχουν έναν πρόσσο γιατί γιατί έχουν έναν πρόσσο και να προσσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσσορήσουν πρόσσο

και να προσσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσορήσουν πρόσσο και να προσορήσουν πρόσσο differently. So I didn't like what happened in 2003 but I believe a lot has changed in the 20 years that followed for almost 20 years. So you're developing drugs, you're developing solutions to help

millions of people but there's risk involved and so there would be lawsuits heading back your way So there would be lawsuits heading back your way because there's a lot of lawyers in the world partially. How do you put that into the calculation of how you tried to do good in the world? That some of the costs is the lawsuits. How do you not fall victim to thinking that is just the cost of doing business and then some of the lawsuits might actually represent real pain that people are going through No, I think that we try always to do the right thing and that's as I said very Well embedded into our culture if you don't do the right thing sooner or later you will pay for it.

One way or another. And right now for us doing the right thing it is being able to find innovations to issues that are real, diseases that they do not have good coverage, good treatments right now. We try to find treatments that significantly surpass the current standards of care. And we try not only to comply with what regulators are asking us to do, this is what you need to do to prove the safety or the efficace, but exceed them. No matter what we do on that, I'm sure that people will find the opportunity because as you said, there are a lot of lawyers to sue us. But we believe in the justice system. And we believe that eventually, if you are doing the right thing, you will be on the right

side of the history. I'm really glad you say that because focusing on doing the right thing, the amount of the money, I believe, is the best way to make money. Just to suggest what they're saying. And also in another way, in other realms, creating a product that people love is the best way to make money. So focusing on the core of the thing that makes people feel good, that brings value to

people's lives. So I'm now in Austin, Texas. My good friend, Joe Rogan, he's been highlighting to me this aggressive marketing on mainstream media channels by Pfizer. So let me ask the general marketing question. Do you see this as a conflict of interest? Is it my bias to reporting of news that a lot of us, a lot of people may include in look to these mainstream channels of news

for kind of authority of like what the heck's going on in the world? And if Pfizer is sponsoring many of these shows, there's a worry. It may be a perception thing, but there's also a natural worry that it would influence what they're talking about, because they're afraid of losing this sponsorship. It's subtle, but at scale, it might have a serious impact. Do you worry about this?

I think people could go one way or another because of multiple reasons. From our perspective, we, I don't think we have aggressive marketing. What do we do? Go on TV and we are having ads about our product and they are highly regulated. I think it is the right of people to know, to learn that if there is a product like that, και δεν είναι εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ εγώ bad things that can happen for a medicine, sometimes that takes more time than the good things. And I don't think that we are doing aggressive marketing. Now, people could be influenced and can be biased in the podcasts or in the other type of media activities that they have for multiple different reasons. Yeah, I know, but it's still it's pressure it's human nature. I mean I

Was one of its perception, but I worry about to other guy have a ton of sponsors for this podcast For example, and none of them ever asked me to anything. They're just you know, I think likely that kind of pressure is not happening for Pfizer But there's implied pressure sometimes and I worry about that a lot because, you know, I look at academia, like I look for the good in people. I tend to believe most people are good or have the capacity to be good and this already be good. When I came to MIT, I was a little bit disappointed, maybe heartbroken.

How much pressure? I think I justified pressure. People felt from financial constraints, especially at MIT when there's, I think, a lot of money. People still felt constraints. And they weren't, it wasn't I think a lot of money. People still felt constraints. And they weren't, it wasn't bringing out the best in them. They weren't supporting each other. They weren't loving each other, like,

celebrating each other's successes. I don't want to blame money on everything, money constraints. But when you have sponsors, it just, I personally worry they doesn't bring the best out of people. And so I feel like I want to put some responsibility on sponsors and great big companies, like Pfizer, to kind of not get in the way of the best of human nature, whether it's sponsoring podcasts, mainstream media, like, I don't know, athletes, whatever.

You need to know that we are so, so careful with sponsorships. First of all, we have very few, very, very few. You have a team that for every single one could be $2,000. They would try to see if there is a conflict of interest in the way we do it. And also, what is there a few tastes of The persons or the programs that we are sponsoring so I don't think our friend I think was from Texas. Yes. Yeah, I don't care I'll get yes, yes, I don't think he got it right that we do those type of things I don't think he got it right that we do those type of things. We don't. Oh, in terms of having a negative effect on that.

Not even having aggressive sponsorships, we have very few. Yeah, when you clip them all together. And most of the sponsorships that we have, it is more on pace and related organizations. Right. Rather than we are very careful not to sponsor other things that can be perceived, not even influenced, but perceived that we may influence. So we are very, very careful on that. This is not the case with us. So, with the incredibly fast development of vaccine,

could you tell me the story from the engineering, to the science, to the human story, of how you could do it so fast by November, even had the ambition to do it by October. It was in the initial days. How do you eight days later? In that time, how do you show that the vaccine is safe and effective, given that, I think, previous vaccines have taken years to do that. Yeah. The vaccines take years to do that. And the time that it takes, it is basically the vast majority, the time to conduct the final phase 3 study, what is the confirmatory study.

And you do that because the phase 3 study costs a lot of money, in our case, almost a billion. και το δύο γιατί το φαίστημα κόστω αυτοί, γιατί το φαίστημα κόστω αυτοί, γιατί το φαίστημα κόστω αυτοί. Ωραία, δεν θέλει να μην κόσουμε και να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, γιατί το φαίστημα κόστω αυτοί, γιατί το φαίστημα κόστω αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί. Ωραία δεν έχουμε μία φαίστη, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμε αυτοί, για να μην κόσουμεναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειναι, ειν two, what is phase three? Let's say that there are so many phases when you try, first of all, to find what is the right vaccine. We try it from 20 different vaccines, we nail down to four, and for those four, we select

it eventually two, and then eventually one. Once you have those selections, what is the dose you're going to use? And then we try multiple different doses to see which one we think is the best. What is trying in tail in those early days? Πάμε όμως, όμως, θα είχαμε να το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα το δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, δω, και θα δω, δω, και θα δω, και θα δω, θα δω, και θα δρούν να φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει, και να το φτυγήσει με πολύ σημαντικά σημαντικά. Και να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει και να το φτυγήσει με όλοι σημαντικά σημαντικά, για να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγήσει να το φτυγ κομμάτρυμοι, και να κάνετε μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, και ευαύτητα, από τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι,

μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρυμοι, μετά τα κομμάτρ, αυτό είναι η δύο, αυτό είναι η σκύμ, που εμπειρήσω να δείξω τα πέστηρες αλλαγές. Και όταν είπε αυτό, θα είπε να κάνει το πέστηρο που είπε το φαίστηρο.

Είναι έναν πολύ μικρό, με πολλοί πέστηρες, πήγαινε ότι η δυοδοξήρια είναι η δυοδοξήρια και η πρασύμπω. Η πρασύμπω και η δυοδοξήρια, θα είπε ειναιδεύτερη. that you think is the right one, and a placebo. The placebo and the vaccine, they look identical. Nobody knows if it's injected a placebo or a vaccine. The physician that makes the injection. The doctor doesn't know if he's injecting placebo or vaccine. He knows a barcode. Only the computer knows.

In order to go into this computer, there are keys. And there are at least two people that need to put their keys so that someone can see the data. Όλοι τα κομπιούτρα μας, in order to go into this computer, υπάρχει κύσταση, υπάρχει τελικά δεσταλικά τα πρώτα που θα τα πρέπει να τα πρέπει για να τα πρέπει να μπορούν να τα πρέπει να τα πρέπει. Και όλοι τα πρώτα που έχουν δεσταλικά δεσταλικά τα πρώτα που θα πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει. Υπάρχει τελικά, πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλαδή δηλα differences in percentage of infections for the vaccinated compared to the non-vaccinate. At the same time, you are monitoring all of them to see if there are differences in the safety profile. If those that go to placebo have the same, let's say, heart attacks with those that they didn't, they got the vaccine because heart attacks will happen if you have 50,000 people because it's part of life.

These are the, all these processes are very, very well established and since years. που είναι πιο σημαντικό. Αυτό τις πρόσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσσ Είχε να μην κομπώσει μόνο από την οικογένεια, για να μην κομπώσει την οικογένεια, με οικογένεια 150 κομπώσει την οικογένεια, που κομπώσει από την οικογένεια, αλλά ειναι να κομπώσει την οικογένεια Αλλά δεν είναι η προσταση, πρέπει να δημοποιήσει. Είναι η αυτονή του οικοί. Πίτωσης δεν δημοποιήσει τι μπορούν και τι μπορούν να δημοποιήσει. Και αντιστάξει, δημοποιήσει μια σύρους τελευταία, για να δημοποιήσει τι μπορούν.

Και όμως, αν δημοποιήστε κάτι ότι είναι σημεντικό, θα δείτε από το κόμμα να δείτε να δείτε. Είχαμε να δείτε από τα πράγματα,, που ήταν το δεύτερο του 10 χρόνου. Είμαστε να το κάνουμε 300 μελίων δώσεις για την ευαξινή, και να κάνουμε 30 μελίων δώσεις για την ευαξινή. Υπήρχονται το δυσκάβριβάλλοντας και το μολικοί, όπως το τρίτομα που έχουμε τελειά, μετά το κόβι. Υπήρχονται τελειά. Είμαστε να το κάνουμε το τρίτο του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του του against COVID. It takes four years. We didn't ask them to do it in three. We asked them to do it in four months, which is what they did. When you are setting this type of goals, they know immediately. They cannot just think within the box. And immediately this is where the human ingenuity and the heart comes. And

this is how they surprised all of us. So there's incredible science and engineering going on here. This is extremely, this is what's bothering me that the conversation in the in public is often not about that. You know, it's about politics and for politics. So I spent the day with Y'all must guess today, he works with rockets. Similar situation, as with Pfizer, in the sense that there is NASA and then there is this private company and that's a source of incredible inspiration to people.

No politics, very little politics. So this is part of the thing I'm trying to, I'm hoping to do our little part in this conversation to help untangle a little bit, just reveal the beauty and the power of the thing that was done here, especially with the vaccine, but other things that are being done with the antiviral drug.

Let me just kind of linger on the safety. What can you say? There's a lot of people that are concerned that the Pfizer vaccine, by the way of which I took two shots, no booster yet, is unsafe. What do you say to people that say that? No, this should not fear something like that. It's completely wrong. Υπάρχει, πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπειπει να πρέπει να ππειπειπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να millions of people and because of the importance of COVID, they have been scrutinized those people constantly. Right now, healthcare authorities are looking for every single signal around the world of people that they got the vaccine and try to see if it is vaccine-related or not. There are

electronic medical records that will tell us when and what happened to a person when he did μερικές φορές, που θα δηλαδή δηλαδή πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως πως π says about this vaccine more than any other product. They should not be afraid of something like that, and they should not listen to information, that it is misinformation, that it is spread on purpose. Well, I don't like the word misinformation, because again, back to the Soviet Union, anyone who opposes the state is spreading misinformation. You know, again, back to the Soviet Union. Anyone who opposes the state is spreading misinformation.

So you can basically call anything misinformation. That's the unfortunate times we live in. You can basically call anybody a liar and say, I'm the user sole possessor of the truth. And I just know offense to me, just because you were tied, doesn't mean you're any more likely to be in a possession of the truth than anyone else. So. I would didn't disagree with that at all. I don't think that somebody who is not wearing a tie. And as you can, people can see that I'm not wearing a tie and you are. But it's not about being able, those that they have the power to impose on the others, the stigma, Υπάρχει σκέφηση, που έχουν την υποσταγή,

να υποσταγήθει την αδεσία, την στιγμή, που είναι η εμφαρία, αλλά πολλά χρόνια που είναι η κανένα, θα έχουμε εμπλήθεια, και η εμπλήθεια είναι κάτι. Και η δέτα είναι, και η ανολήτηση της δέτα είναι έναν, And data is an analytics of data is another one. And to say that something which is highly scientific by people that they are not scientists, I think that it is not what you are describing what used to happen in Soviet Union, or in any other autocratic regime in the world right now.

But I definitely do think that the scientists, the public science communicators, I've listened to over COVID have really disappointed me because they have not spoken with empathy. They haven't sufficiently in my view have put their ego aside and really listen to people. Yes, people that don't have a PhD, people have not really, you know, maybe you've not even taken like a biology course in college or something like that. But still, they have children, they worry, they fear, they don't know who to trust, they don't know if they should listen to the CEO of Pfizer who might have other incentives in mind, who might just care about money and

nothing else. And so they just use common sense and they ask questions and I think to them, talking down to them as if they're not intelligent and so on is something scientists have done almost like roll their eyes and that disappoints me because I think that's kind of what is the source of division. Look, humility is a virtue. Yes. And the fact that you are educated doesn't mean that you are having either humility or empathy, or you have good human qualities. ή να έχουμε καλή εγώ, αυτό δεν ήταν και θα πρέπει να είναι

έναν μόνος του Ιατζίγου, αυτό είναι στήρα. Αυτό που κάνουν αυτό είναι ο Ιατζίς και αυτό είναι να κάνουν καλή εγώ, γιατί δεν είναι ο κοιντός, όχι δεν είναι ο κοιντός, όχι δεν είναι να δει να δει να, πρέπει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξει να δείξ happening and the vast majority of the people that they don't get vaccinations right now is because they're afraid. It's not for any other reason. It's not that they have an agenda. What I'm saying, it is there is a small number of people that they have made business for them to profit from this anxiety. I'll give you an example. I have been arrested by FBI. This is what someone wrote. I read it, I laughed.

I mean, okay, this is where they take it. There was a reason why they wrote it that. The Pfizer CEO was arrested by because they want to create doubts in the minds of the people that they are afraid and say, look, if the I arrested him, likely I will not do the vaccine. But I laughed. A week later, the wife of the Pfizer CEO died.

There is a picture in this website of my wife. Someone sent to me, now I'm pissed, I'm not laughing. I tried to find my kids to tell them if you read something, mom is fine, don't worry. Then I remember that she has very old parents back in Greece. We start calling them to making sure because you know that that will be picked up by Greek newspapers and they will publish it, okay.

They are those people that wrote these things. They know very well that my wife didn't die and died because she was vaccinated. So this is the narratives that they are on purpose forming to profit from the stress and the anxiety of good people. And that's something I have to kind of people that listen to this, that kind of doubt institutions. I do also want to say that there's quite a few folks who realize they can make money from saying the man is lying to you. The government is lying to you. It's all corrupt. It's all a scam. Big farmer is lying to you. They're manipulating you. I'm surprised at how much money can be made

with that. And it's sad. So you have to just as people use their common sense to be skeptical when listening to politicians and powerful figures, they should be skeptical to also when listening to sort of the conspiracy theorists or not even the conspiracy theorists, but people who raise questions about institutions. Think on your own, think critically with an open mind that everyone can be manipulating you, but also everybody has the capacity to do good. And I think science in this pure form, not when entangled institutions is a beautiful thing. And in the hands of many companies, it is a beautiful thing at scale.

Still, you have a lot of incentive as have created the vaccine advisor this incredible technology to sing it praises. So there's a kind of, you know, people are skeptical like how much do we trust? How excited Albert is about this vaccine. So for example, I mean, not to do a Shakespearean analysis of you to Twitter, but I think you tweeted something about a study with a 100% efficacy of the vaccine or in stopping a transmission or something like that.

Do you regret sort of being like over-representing the effectiveness of the vaccine, technically saying correct things, but just kind of like highlighting the super positive things that may be misinterpreted, you know, saying 100%. No, I never said something hundred percent that every time I speak if a number is hundred percent I rush to say that in biology there is nothing hundred percent because always there will be when you go to the millions They were in the study things that we are hundred percent for example deaths or in South Africa When we tried it was a hundred percent Ethicus

Clearly it's more numbers when the numbers will become much bigger the hundred percent will not hold but could be Εθικές. Κλυρίως είναι μοναμμές. Οι μοναμμές θα πειναι πως είναι πολύ μοναμμές, 100% δεν θα πειναι, αλλά θα πειναι 95, 96. Υπάρχει, η αυτοσυγή είναι η αυτοσυγή. Εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, εγώ, ε I have people that are looking at it and they are having second or third opinions to make sure that we don't put why, because I know that people are listening to me right now, everything I say. And I want to make sure that they continue not only being clear as to what I want to say, so they will not misunderstandings, but also I maintain the trust of the people. I don't think that someone who only said picks information and only emphasizes

positive things, it's someone that is the one to be trusted and I want me and Pfizer to be trusted. So many felt the vaccine was presented as a cure that wouldn't require regular booster shots. Was that something you believed early on? Did you always believe that many regular shots would be required? And maybe in a bigger picture,

how many, do you think this will, for the Pfizer vaccine, is that something you see that's taking a booster shot regularly like annually? Yes, in the beginning when we had the first months with the vaccine, people would ask me do we need another one? And I said, we don't know.

I was very clear about it. Then around April, May, I started seeing the first data, and I made statements that I think we will need a booster around eight to 12 months after the second dose. And then after that, on your revaccination, this is what I said, believe is one of the most likely scenarios. And it was based on the data that I had. Υπάρχει από εσύ, και η ευαξινάεισο, αυτό είναι το εσύ, πρέπει να είναι ένας του πιλικούς. Και ήταν, στις από το τέτοιμο, αλλά με το δελτακέν. Και γιατί είχε να κάνει το καβιέτο, που με αξιένει και με το νευαριό.

με όλους που είχε να κάνει. με δελτακέν, ήταν πριν να κάνουμε το πίσω να το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το το τοην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μην το μ ότι το δοσίος είναι μοί τελωγής, δεν ξέρω ότι το δοσίος είναι ο Ισάκλος, αλλά το δοσίος είναι το σύμπρο. Λοιπόν, πιστεύω από πολλοί πάντα, πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει τελωγήνται, δεν πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να πρέπει να π με το θέροντο. Δεν είναι με όμικρον, πιστεύει όλοι. Αυτό θα δηλαδή δηλαδή, και εγώ δεν πρέπει να δηλαδή να δηλαδή, και το αξί μου, το αξί μου, με όμικρον, όμως, δεν πρέπει να δηλαδή,

εγώ πρέπει να δηλαδή, και να δηλαδή, πρέπει να δηλαδή, πρέπει να δηλαδή, για να δηλαδή, θα δηλαδή, και για να δηλαδή, για να δηλαδή, για να δηλαση, θα έχουμε. Και αν είναι μια εγκέφηση για την εγκέφηση,

θα μπορούμε να φύγουμε πολύ εγκέφηση, αλλά δεν θα φύγουμε κάποια αυτοσυγή που θα έχουμε δηλαδή. Μετάμε, θα έχουμε από 1,5,5 μπ, δεχνίτες, δεχνίτες, δεχνίτες, 4 μπ, και αν έχουμε πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα πάντα π And if we have to switch and have half of that in the new half of that in the old we will do still four billion doses So I think the world should feel very very Comfortable but if there is a need we will be ahead of the virus. Yeah, you did you delivered or produced three billion this year Yeah, vaccines and you're on track to do four billion next year. Yeah, I mean if we add A lot more time we'll talk about how the

HECKU achieve that kind of scale. It's truly incredible. Let me ask the policy question, what are your feelings about vaccine mandates? In terms of do you think the most effective way to vaccinate the population is to require it or do you go with the American way and give people the freedom to choose? I think it is a very difficult topic and a very difficult decision, whoever needs to make it and clearly it's not me. It is the public health officials of every country that they have to make this decision. I have to make the decision for Pfizer employees. Υπάρχει δεν είναι εμένα. Είναι η ευρώτητα από ευρώτητα από ευρώτητα. Δεν έχω να κάνει τη σύζον. Υπάρχει να κάνει τη σύζον για φάση.

Υπάρχει. Υπάρχει να δώσεις το φύρρο της σύζον, να δώσεις το σύζον, να δώσεις το σύζον, και το φύρρο της σύζον, που δεν θέλουν να δώσεις το σύζον. Και ευαίνει να δώσεις το σύζον, που θα δώσεις. Υπάρχουν. fear of those that they don't want to get the vaccine. And eventually, I came to the decision that we will mandate it. At Pfizer. We are flexible. We are giving exceptions, of course, for health,

maybe some religions. But we decided to mandate it. Now, at Pfizer, when we did this decision, we were at 90% vaccination rates. When we said you were going to mandate it. And that took itω από 96. Είχαμε. Είχαμε να δω από 10% και δεν θα δω από να δω από.

Γιατί, όχι, δεν πρέπει να δω από όλοι οι μικροί που δω από εσύ, και δεν υπάρχει εσύ ευκολη να δω από το. Είχαμε να δω από 96%, εγώ είχαμε για τους. και να κάνει εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσύ εσ people if you need to get them the freedom and it comes with a territory. If you are elected to run a country, you should be ready to make difficult decisions. And no matter what decision you make, there will be fake stories written about you as we talked about. You will not be able to please everyone. Yes. Well, let me just say that I think, again, coming from the Soviet Union, I think at the public level, at the federal level, mandates is a really bad idea, even if it's good for the health of the populace, there's something about preserving the freedom is really powerful about this country.

Like doing the hard work of convincing people to get vaccinated, to choose to get vaccinated if they want, but still have the freedom not to. That's a really powerful freedom. To me, it's super lazy to mandate. People should understand the science and want to get vaccinated. Do you think children need to get vaccinated? I do. I do think that they need to get vaccinated. So age ranges five to 16, there's a lot of parents that fear for the well-being of their children.

Can you empathize with those parents? Can you steal man-there-arg arguments against the vaccine of their children? You know, because people know who I am. I had the opportunity to interact with parents before that was, let's say, approved. And there were so many way more that I had a lot of empathy because they were afraid και πως υπήρχαν πολλοί πως, είχαν πολλοί αφαμπτή, γιατί υπήρχαν πολλοί για τις κύρες, γιατί υπήρχαν πολλοί, δεν υπήρχαν πολλοί. Και υπήρχαν πολλοί, που είχαν πως πως πήρχαν πολλοί.

Πρέπει να υπήρχαν πολλοί, πως πήρχαν πολλοί, πως πήρχαν πολλοί, πως πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πως πήρχαν πολλοί, πως πήρχαν πολλοί, πως πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν πολλοί, πήρχαν αλλά δεν πραγματικά, η ασυσία είναι πραγματικά, η ασυσία είναι πραγματικά και η ασυσία είναι πολύ σημαντικά γιατί εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, δεν πραγματικά. Τώρα, που έχουμε τα βαξινες, εγώ, όμως, τα ασυσία είναι πραγματικά, δεν είναι πραγματικά, που είναι πολύ σημαντικά.

Είχαμε, τώρα, τώρα, εσύ, θα έχουμε, εσύ, εσύ, θα εσύσουμε, θα εσύσουμε, εσύ, γιατί εσύσουμε, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσύ, εσ afraid even more about their kids because they love, I would say more than they love themselves. So it's going to be this situation and again, the same. How can you do to demonstrate, to convince people, to win the minds and the hearts of the people that this is the right thing to do? What do you think about that calculation? Because the risk for kids is very low. Kids do die. Kids do go to the hospital from COVID.

Yes. But the rate is very low. The rate is lower, but kids, they do die. And how can you say that I'm not going to protect a kid for something that it is likely to happen? And it is not only that. What happens in the school when they stop the education process, because a kid got the disease, και δεν είναι όλοι που είναι σχετικά. Πάμε ότι είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά,

που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά,

που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλει, που είναι η κλειά, που είναι η κλει, of the kids that it shouldn't be a debate. Look, how many kids are having polio right now? Wait a fewer number than those that they're having COVID in the hospital. But everybody's getting the vaccine. It's, well, polio was deadly for kids. But it's not now. So why some a kid to do it now? Because it needs to be protected. Well, the unique thing about the COVID vaccine is a new type of technology too. So there's an extra concern. Choosing to vaccinate a child, you're making a

choice that can potentially hurt them. That's the way parents that are hesitant about the vaccine think. I think choosing to vaccinate children makes a choice so that something could not potentially hurt them, which is the disease. That's why we are doing vaccinations since ever. I know that there are people that they are concerned for themselves and for their kids. What I know it is, that I'm a scientist and I'm a parent and I am telling you that vaccines is a very good thing for kids and thank God we were able to develop. So we've talked quite a bit about the vaccine, but there's an incredible new technology that Pfizer's developing with Paxlovid, antiviral for COVID. Where does that stand?

How does that work? And how are you able to develop it in four months? Like you said, and all of that in just a few minutes. First of all, what this is about? This is a real game changer. This is a course of treatment that you get only if you get the disease. You get COVID. Then what happens is that you will take for five days pills, day and night and twice a day for five days.

And instead of 10 people from those that disease to go to hospital, και ειναι τελικοί από τα οποία που είναι η δημοκλησία, για να δημοκλησουμε τα παιδιά, όμως, είναι και με όλους κόβιες, όμως, όμως, δεν είχε μια παιδιά, είχε μια παιδιά, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί, ειναι αυτοί,

ειναι αυτοί, ειναιμοποιήσει 99% Αλλά οι δυο σημαντικές δυο σημαντικές δ του αυσία του αυσία του αυσία του αυσία του αυσία του αυσ eat these something that I didn't have before. And this is a significant, significant game changer. I have to ask a controversial, difficult question. What are your thoughts about Iver Mectin? Has it sufficiently been studied, has Pfizer considered it? And it's like I said, incredible development of the antiviral, as like as a comparator or that kind of thing, just investigated in general. The reason I bring it up, because I've read quite a few criticisms of people, there's been some comparisons of Paxlow and the Ivermectin. And I think people should look up, there is Dr. John Campbell that describes that comparison

and makes that claim. And there's quite a lot of people that debunk or argue against that. You can do your own research. But there is a lot of people that kind of see this free drug without patents on it and say this could be the savior. So can you just speak to that comparison? And it's not the first time, if you remember, there were other compounds that were claimed that they are the solution to COVID.

And clearly, they were proving that they're not. There are compounds that are solution and compounds that they're not. I, as a scientist, and I discuss with our scientists, they don't see any reason why I'm medicine like I ever marketing, which is a parasitic site, to be able to act on COVID. And so they don't seem to present any connection. And they haven't seen any paper that describes someone that used it, that they had any results. I'm sure that there will be some people that will claim because people are claiming anything. But I don't think that there was any paper in any peer review magazine and a reliable scientific magazine to support this claim.

So we are focusing on saving people's lives. We are not focusing on craziness. Well, to push back, there is quite a lot of papers, but the studies are small, so there's no conclusive evidence. I haven't seen any that it is reliable. I don't know where are these smaller, big, reliable. I haven't seen any. Well, some of the big ones have been retracted, which means they weren't legitimate. Yes. So, you know, so this is definitely something that people need to look at. Is the people that kind of question or the effectiveness of a mechanism definitely something to think about. And I think is the reason that perhaps this was chloroquine, island before. Yes. For God's sake.

That's why I passed. How many people died because of that? Yeah, this is the dangerous thing. This is the sad thing. But, Slavic has been studying thousands of people and will be under the scrutiny, not only of regulators, but as we will go into the implementation, as it happens in

many countries, they will monitor to see what's happened. Let's say that whatever we do, once it is out there, within a few weeks, they will know all hospitality if it works or not, because they will see the statistics. We've gone through one of the more difficult periods in recent human history or the past two years, like as a society, what gives you hope about the future for human civilization? You look into the next few years. I think the human insinuit. I think although there is, the world always is progressing.

Although there are a lot of things that need to be fixed in the society of 2020. The society of 2020 is better at large than things 50 years back, 100 years back, in all different aspects, from poverty, for human rights, from science, from quality of life, from any aspect. I am positive that humans can create and always create a better future, and will continue doing so. You have helped save the lives of millions of people, help improve the quality of their lives, but you yourself are just one biological organism

with an expiration date. Do you pond in your mortality? Do you think about your death? Are you afraid of death? That's a very interesting question. I was discussing with a lot of people that I was fearless of death. I couldn't care less when I was young. Είχαμε με τα πολλοί που είχαμε αρθεί, δεν μπορούμε να καταλαβαίνει. Είχαμε με τον πιο πιο πιο.

Το πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο πιο their wedding. I hope they will be around to see their children. So if there is something that scares me, the possibility of it will not be part of their lives anymore. And I would not be watching. I hope there is life upstairs. So I will be able to watch them from there. From upstairs, get a nice overview. Let me ask the big ridiculous question. And you only have two minutes or less to answer it What is the meaning of life? What's the meaning of this whole thing? You said ingenuity is the thing that gives you hope We seem to be all busy trying to help each other trying to build a better world. Why are we doing that? I would repeat something that

Steve Jobs has said death is life's biggest invention. It eliminates the old and it gives place to the new. Life is all about moving forward. Life is all about creating new things. Maybe everyone is a contributor, but no one is the owner. And always creating something new. Always. Adding something beautiful into the world, maybe a little bit of love.

Hopefully. Albert, thank you so much. It's a huge honor that you go through some of these difficult questions with me today. And then you give your extremely valuable time for this conversation. Thank you so much for talking today. Thank you for your interest and I'm happy as I was telling you before but I can brag with my kids that I was in your podcast because you're their hero. You made it. I made it. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Albert Burla. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, let me leave you with some words from Oscar Wilde.

The truth is rarely pure and never simple. Thank you.