Lex Fridman Podcast - #384 – Matthew McConaughey: Freedom, Truth, Family, Hardship, and Love

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

Matthew McConaughey is an Oscar-winning actor and author of Greenlights. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Riverside: http://creators.riverside.fm/LEX and use code LEX to get 30% off - MasterClass: https://masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off - AG1: https://drinkag1.com/lex to get 1 year of Vitamin D and 5 free travel packs EPISODE LINKS: Matthew's Twitter: https://twitter.com/McConaughey Matthew's Instagram: https://instagram.com/officiallymcconaughey/ Matthew's YouTube: https://youtube.com/@MatthewMcConaughey Greenlights (book): https://greenlights.com/ Roadtrip (course): https://artoflivinevent.com/roadtrip PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (05:57) - Relationships (10:44) - Dreams (22:56) - Fear of death (34:40) - Overcoming pain (57:45) - Amazon rainforest (1:04:29) - AI (1:17:45) - Truth (1:25:50) - Ego (1:33:34) - Dallas Buyers Club (1:40:03) - True Detective (1:48:49) - Yellowstone (1:53:51) - Texas (1:55:43) - Politics (2:00:29) - Interstellar (2:03:26) - Aliens (2:10:23) - Advice for young people (2:18:42) - Meaning of life

The following is a conversation with Matthew McConaughey, a legendary Oscar-winning actor and one of the most unique, charismatic and inspiring humans and Texans who walk this earth. He starred in films and shows loved by me and millions of others, including interstellar, days that are confused, Dallas Bias Club, Killer Joe, Mudd, True Detective, and soon spin off of Yellowstone. Offscreen his words carry wisdom and power in his book called Greenlights and his new video course called Road Trip, where Matthew expands in the philosophy in his book and shows how to apply to your life in order to find more happiness, success, and love. And now a quick few seconds mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the in order to find more happiness, success, and love.

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I drink it twice a day usually. I mix it up, but in the fridge, it's nice and cold, and I just escape in the cold, deliciousness, and the meditative reminder that I'm rejuvenating my mind and body. I just sit there on the couch for a minute and reflect on my past, my present, and my future, and just let the gratitude for how beautiful this life is take over. I think they've changed their name officially to AG1. So you should go check them out and they'll give you a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase when you go to drink ag1.com slash Lex. This is the Lex Friedman podcast to support it. Please check out our sponsors in the description. And now dear friends, here's Matthew, Mocanae. Okane.

Let's start with love. Your parents had a complicated love story. Divorced twice, married three times, what did you learn about love from your mom and dad in their love story? That it's messy, that it takes work, that it's ugly, that no matter how ugly a mess it is, don't go to bed until you've come back together to either embrace or admit that you truly love each other, even if you hadn't solved what the hell you bitching about. That love

will win in the end, literally three to two with my mom and dad. And that even in the two divorces and in the two times where they couldn't live with each other, they still loved each other. There couldn't live with each other at that time. For whatever reason they needed, and I don't know the details, if they needed their space, freedom, or what, but they that they were never out of love with each other. And that as a parent, if you just, if you're when we're not sure what to do, and people give you a thousand books and advice. As a parent, if your kid knows your love, you're in the black.

That's the main thing. It won't work without that. And it can work and will usually can work with that. They just know that fact. So it's not just love for each other. It's the love for the bigger family that ultimately helps you persist through the ups and downs. Well, I mean, I don't know how much, particularly my mom and dad were staying together at times

maybe when they didn't want to because they had children. I don't actually think they considered that. I think they were much less conscientious than say, I am today. I think my mom and dad were more like, they'll be fine. We love them. They'll be fine, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there right now. They would let's work it out between you and I as well. I think my mom and dad were saying to each other or or not. They wanted and needed a relationship that was a tidal wave, rocky, right angles, two nommies.

And to this day, in my life with Camille and I, which I don't, I like a river, has some swerves and some streams and some rapids, but I'm not looking for a tidal wave. My mom's like, what's all this? It's everything so smooth. Yeah, stuff. Come on, come on, come on, come on.

So she challenges vitality. Because that's what my mom needed to communicate. I don't think my dad needed it as much. Have that, the hard angles, their relationship to her. I think my dad needed it as much as my mom. But the clashes demonstrated the passion that underlies the love. Yes, and that's, I've always been asked, you know, when I talk about my parents' love relationship, I tell the stories that are actually sometimes quite violent.

And there's some good stories there. They're beautiful. I think they're beautiful. Yeah, I think they're beautiful too. But I've had people go, wait a minute, that was unhealthy. You can't dead. And I was like, no, that's again, back to the beginning. Love's messy. And what I love about those stories is,

that's where the love was actually. You can, it was tested. And it could have broke and been over. Yeah, it never was. Again, the love won. In the kitchen floor, the blood's drawn, knives are pulled. Catch up, catch up, saw all over. But we make love on the kitchen floor to in.

Yeah, I mean, come on. Beautiful. So as romantic as it gets right there. Whoa. Uh, what's the memory from childhood that helps set you on the trajectory of becoming the man you are today? Standing on the corner with Mr. Mayor, the principal of St. Philip's School, I was in kindergarten.

And I looked up and there was a cloud in the sky. And I said, Mr. Mayor, is that cloud as big as the world? And he paused for a minute and he goes, well yes, it is Matthew. Now in my seven year old mind, I went, okay, I can see the outlines of it. And that must mean it is so far away. Because if that's as big as the world, I remember it took 15 hours to drive from long

view to Florida last year. You know, and I can't even see that far. So that cloud must be so far off that is not worth me even considering space, dreams. Any of that, I was like, army, I'm looking down. I'm gonna put my head to the ground. I'm gonna look right in front of me and deal with what's in front of me because dealing with dreams and what's out there

and not on this earth that gravity holds down, not worth considering, you never make it, it's not even worth imagining, it's very dust. So, I think I got learned a lot of self-reliance from that, I think I got a work ethic from that. I think I got a focus on from that. I think I got a, hey, focus on what's right in front of you. Do the deed. Take care of what's in front of you. One at a time and slowly notch up your way. And hopefully there's some ascension to that.

And it wasn't until, 40 years later, and in some ways decades later, that I started to go. Oh, I can project, I can dream. Why? Because literally the first time I got in a plane, and then 30 seconds, I was in a cloud, I'm like, whoa, we must be going to Trillion Miles now,

because we're already in that cloud that was as big as the world that I saw the edge of. And then I grew and learned enough to go, well, that's not true. Traint planes don't go that fast. Oh, what Mr. Mayor said wasn't really true. That cloud is not as big as the world. And it's not near as far away as I thought. But I'm glad he lied to me. What do you think about that

detention of a way of living life between being a dreamer and a pragmatist? Yeah. Which is a better way. The Donnie holes the reciprocity of the two of them. I mean, I can't be present unless I got plans I want to want to have a big picture in mine, but I got to go a day-to-time. I like to write the headline or have a I think we need to have a north star Something look forward to But we all know that if we're staring at it we're tripping on the way If we're just you know the, you read the hallmark card to check, earth me, you know, dream it, you can do it.

I think that's a half ass horrible thing to tell somebody. Yeah, you know, because, you know, you talk, and then on the other side, you have things like, you know, people say you talk, and then on the other side, you have things like, you know, people say, hope means nothing. Well, yes, it does. That's the dream. You just don't stop there. It's not a period after that word.

Now what do we do practically? And I think that constant tension, when that tension's a dance, it's when it's beautiful. There's an osmode, but to see those as contradictions, I think is where we're falling short. So I don't, I won on their own, if we silo the two. If you silo the two, I guess the pragmatics I want to go with because at least you'll get something number, if you only silo the dream

and don't do anything about it, that's your kind of living in illusion and kind of living in a virtual reality. Yeah, that's tricky. Even the people you love can sometimes suffocate the dream. Can make you believe that it's not possible. It feels like a lot of parents kind of want you to be safe, want you to be stable, want you to have a plan so that everything's

going to be okay. And the dream feels like a threat to that. Yeah. How much of that though I wonder is proper initiation? Because if you throw in dreams out, I call it conservative, very liberal late. Let's learn to block and tackle. Let's learn to that work ethic, those things, those pragmatics first. Learn the rules of the road, the rules of the gang, the things that we can all kind of

rely on. This is how the world is supposed to work. Now, it doesn't always work that way. You teach a child to drive. It's like, yeah, you stay in the lane, you go to speed limit, this is not helpful, but that doesn't guarantee that no one else is around the red light. But you learn that later. There's an initiation, I think, that's proper with the dream. I mean, I think parents, my parents very much that way. The idea of going to chase an acting career or something was what? It was, it was, it was, that was a different

vernacular. That was like not in our, I was taught to work away up a company ladder and 95, do job. But the day I brought it up and said, I want to go to film school. And I thought, my dad was going to go, you want to do what, boy? He was like, gave me something best advice ever until we not to have acid and said, go go in between the lines what he heard from me was that made him so happy as a father I believe and makes any parent happy is when our child doesn't ask us permission to go chase a dream.

Oh yeah. When they're going, I'm bringing it up to you with full respect. Yeah, but I'm doing this with her without you. That's when a parent goes, ah, yes. I've done something right enough. I helped my child be secure enough in the pragmatics.

I have a foundation enough where they have the courage to go, I'm flying the nest. To take the leap. You wrote after my dad died, I had a dream that left me with a statement less impressed, more involved. What are those words mean to you? We got to be more than just happy to be here. I'm big on gratitude, but we got to be more than just thankful to be here. Dream you can do it. we've got to be more than just thankful to be here. Oh, dream you can do it.

It's got to be more than just dream you can do it. That's impressed. The dream is still other than if I'm here and so impressed talking to you today. If I have a reverence to an extent, I will not be able to be involved in this conversation. I'll be too impressed. I'll be anticipating, oh, what's that question? He's going to ask, oh, I think I know he's going this, oh, I think I know what entry might love to hear. Oh, I'm not involved in conversation. I'm too impressed. So I'm removed from the present. For me, what that literally meant to me when that came to me in a dream and I carved it in, I remember carved it in a tree, it took a couple hours.

Still when I still know where that tree is, say in a monica. It was, my father had moved on, he'd left this life, all of a sudden it hit me, oh I don't have the safety net. My dad was above law and above religion to me. He had me, if I really, if I really was in the shit, I really needed my trusted that he had my back, above law, above anything. I was like, he's gone. I'm going, okay, it hit me how much I've been pretending

to be the young man. I was trying to be and not actually put my ass on the line and have enough courage to take risk and actually own up to the man that he was just trying to teach me to be. And I remember the world got flat. That cloud that Mr. Mayor that I saw there was not way up there. It was it was fog in front of me now. And let's go into it. It was I kept. I'd say I probably gained even more respect for people and things, but I lost a certain

amount of reverence. That was keeping me from feeling like I deserved or I'd earn things or looking out for myself or holding myself to ask. And I remember all the things that I was just getting, going to Hollywood at the time, so I was getting famous out there as one of those clouds. With being an actor and all of a sudden celebrity and becoming famous, the reverence I had, I remember it just, it lowered down to eye level.

And I was able to realize it and go, that's not a, that's not fairy dust. And don't give it so much credit to make it fairy dust. Like, oh, not me. No, I can never, no, look that in the eye with full respect, but less reverence. And at the same time, equidistant, almost equal sublimation, I noticed where I'd been condescending people and things, patronizing, and sloughing things off as like less than me and not worthy of my time. It raised up to eye level. And so they were all flat in front of me and the world was flat.

And I was able to, shoulders went back, my heart rose up, my chin lifted up, I looked the world, looked things in the eye. I became probably less sentimental. Hopefully not to level that I got callous, but I know became less sentimental. I became more courageous because, you know, when you have someone pass in your life, or maybe it's similar to a situation you're going on in your own life,

your homeland, you sober up on these mendicities that we deal with every day. And this bullshit that we owe, we give too much credit, too much significance to. And you're like, what am I doing? Why am I, I'm not even going to let myself emotionally get brought down or overrelated by this situation because I'm, this doesn't really matter in the big scheme. And so we, we, we, certain things that I found reverence for and, and hesitated from in my life. I was now engaging with because I was like, oh, it's live. This live is live. Let's look at the eye and go forward through it and deal with the consequences.

What do you make of death? Is this scary? I'm not looking forward to it, but it does not scare me. Do you think about it? Do you visualize it? I do. I do. And it's a beautiful visualization and a beautiful dream when I go as part of the food

chain. It's not a good visualization when I go as part of a random act of violence and a freaking drive by or something. Because the second, the accident, it breaks a story that I believe is already written. At least I don't have the capacity yet to put it into a story, a divine story of the lives that we live. And so there's something ugly and gross about it. And it happens all the time, you know, to people all the time. I just feel like when it's part of the food chain, when

I go as part of the food chain, I'm like, ah, that's poetry. Part of the flow of nature, you return to nature. Yeah, there's grace and poetry in that. Do you miss your father? Take a bottom. When I think about him, I do. Now when do I think about him? I thought about him yesterday, working through a script and working on right now, working

on scene work. And I just had that quick little reaction of wanting to show him. I checked to see. I tried not to. And then I don't get sad. I go, yeah, he would have loved, he would have loved this. Where's my mom wants to be on the stage? My dad would have been on the front row He's more fun to show stuff too. Yeah, and he would have and you know as as what he would we would have he knew he was a character

He knew characters. I've based parts of all kinds of characters I've played in them and the man that that I am on people that he introduced me to and who he was. He would have loved the creative process of working on a script or talking about, hey, movie. To I always say I love the movie mud because it's the one that I visualized and seen my dad come to me so many times as a 12-year-old and put his arm around me and go, hey little buddy, you see in this movie called Mud? God damn it.

It's a good one. Let's go watch it. That. Now, my dad was never got to see me start a career in film, but he was alive five days into the overlapped the first five days of me working on my first film days confused. Now, that I think it's, there's something beautiful about that. He didn't ever come to the set. We didn't talk about it, but he was alive. For me to start something that was more than a fat, that was something that would become something that I love to do. And I do miss, not him, you know, and then I go out of

that. Do I, we talked about him two nights ago with our daughter. I was, I was rubbing my daughter's feet and my mom is living with this. And anyone comes in and goes, oh, look at you just like your pot. He's like, what? And he goes, oh, because my dad loved to rub some of these feet, rub my mom's feet, rubbed all of me and my brother's girlfriend's feet. When we would have a date, they would come over early because they knew they were going to get a foot rub from Jim McConaughey. And then we'd come out, me and my two older brothers on, this has been on for decades, we'd come

out, shout, ready to go, buttoned up. And they looked at me like, how are we going anywhere right now? And so we told the story, you know, to my daughter. And I was like, oh, yeah, my dad's hands, and Mrs. Hands, his hands could heal. So you carry him in you? I hope so. I hope so. And it's a challenge for me, and I suppose it's like this for any sun. How much do we hang on to, and how much do we let go and evolve and update the OS and try maybe better or different? You know? and try maybe better or different. It's that there's certain things that I know that I fully believe in.

It's like when do we religious, when do we cast away our father? You know, when do we say, no, I'm going after the dream, I'm not asking your permission. I question that from time to time for myself because I, and it almost feels blasphemic if that's a word sometimes. I feel like, you can't, what are you doing?

You can't check that and go like, well, no, I'm not sure if I want to. And then I immediately kind of let myself off because I believe where he is, he's going, go, but you're free, man. You know, I'm not gonna hold you back. If you misread that or I didn't teach you that as well as maybe I wish I could have, go, you're free. You're not gonna lose. Trust that you're not gonna lose.

It's in your DNA, it's in your lineage, young man. Still, it's scary to not have a safety net. Losing your father is scary in that way. The Uralized This World is just you. And some deep fundamental way is just you. Yeah. You're alone. Yes.

But, I mean, also not having that. It's such a gift of deliverance though, as well. Because it's a, I think it's an, I mean, it's an awesome feeling to know, to know we're alone, to know we don't have that, to know you don't have take to, or take three, that it's one take. I mean, the peripheral vision improves, you know, the link and understanding with our past improves, because I know for me, I was not ever considered of my past at all, because that, but that had that. If I needed it, he was my well for that.

Well, he's gone, you know, except he had the, literally had, they have our back. Well, and then when they long or have our back, I'll say, I'm going, oh, well, maybe I need to look back and start giving some credit to how I got here. What I'm doing and where I'm heading, it gave me the first time courage to even look over my shoulder. Because again, I didn't have to because I don't have to look. Dad's got my back. No, dad's gone. From this life, he doesn't have your back. Okay. So, I mean, I don't know, maybe in it, because it's inevitable, I I very quickly go to, all right, in the pain, the loss, and yes, even loneliness, which is different from being alone, and loss. Pretty immediately part and parcel with the pain, I felt it. In the pain, you saw the gift, the red light of losing your,

of losing your father. Pretty immediately less impressed more involved. I came like, a couple weeks after moving on. Is there a trick to that? To see the gift in the pain? That's a good question, is there a trick to it? Not that I know of. to see the gift in the pain. That's a good question. Is there a trick to it? Not that I know of. I mean, I don't...

I have to catch myself from... trying to intellectualize my way into the reasoning and not skip over real feelings and discomfort. I mean, I did get that from my mom and I have to watch it, that so resilient that we just dust ourselves off and get up and go. You wanna sit in the feeling, you wanna feel it, you wanna deeply feel the pain.

I wanna deeply feel it, I wanna look at the eye and deeply feel it, but I don't wanna wallow in it. Yeah. Now I was raised where you skip the deeply feel and let's go. And I've said it before, but that will lead to having turned into a person who is a repeat offender of the same crimes because you just get up and you don't you don't have a winter in your life. You don't mean you don't have, there's no introspective time. You don't look over your shoulder at the end of the past.

And so you just get up and you're like, all right, I've stepped in the same pile of whatever a hundred times and I'm fine, I'll do it a hundred first, doesn't hurt. Hell, it's good luck. Well, hang on a minute, maybe we want to stop and go, what can I learn from that? But it, I don't know of a trick. I think that I think that I think, I feel there's any trick I would say,

it's just how quickly can we admit the inevitable? That's what I'm talking about in the book book about it. Once you know it's inevitable, how do we get relative? Not skip it, not throw it to the side, not deny it, which I'd love to talk about that here sometimes, who about the value of denial sometimes? The value of denial. Yeah. But how quickly do we want something's inevitable? Go. Okay. Any mind and heart time I'm spending about going, no, I can't believe that happened. No,

or did that really happen? Anytime we spend it trying to deny that what it's already happened, that seems to me to be, I'm not sure the value of that time. So if any, there's any trick any trick I would say once you know something's inevitable even know how painful it is or how awesome it is Start getting relative with that and in the relativity is seeing There's a gift here and if I realize that gift I'm Honoring now I'm on to building up The beautiful passage of my father leaving this life now. I'm on the march to go. Yes, let's let the legacy let this become omnipresent. Let him live through me. Let me become more him. It's transformed. Yeah. So what value is there then to denial? Any? Oh, I think they're valued, if you really commit to it.

I get this from my mother. It's a very pragmatic value. Come into the denial. Okay. And my mom does it to an extent that that that I'm like, mom, do you have any consideration or context of situations? And she does. This is the thing every time I go, she's not a shallow woman. But if it is not, if it is something, if it is something happens in her life, that is keeping her from going where she wants to go or having a joy in her life that she does. She was straight-ass deny it happened. Didn't happen. No, it did. Mom,

we're right here. I heard you. Yeah. What you said. Not it didn't you heard something else. Mom, now she gets a mammoth scan that she's 91 hell, yes, she gets some amnesty on that. But I've, anyone hell, yes, she gets some amnesty on that. But I've, she's not, yeah, does she repeat a fend, yeah, but it's misdemeanors. You know what I mean? I mean, it's like we all, it's part of that thing when you got a family member, you're like, yeah, that's just what they do, just go with it.

You know, and it's ingenious in a way, it's a tool. She does, I think it is more of a trick with her, she would even, so ingrained her, it's not a trick. It's justious in a way. It's a tool. She does. I think it is more of a trick with her, but she wouldn't even, so ingrained her, it's not a trick. It just, do it. Done. And I, and I, and I, another reason I bring this up, it's outside of just my mother is, I did this, um,

road trick course in this art of living event a few weeks ago. Out of hundreds of thousands of chats that came in and responses that came in afterwards, it seemed to me that about 80% of people's challenges and problems even in their life were something in the past that they were hung up on that they could not seem to get past and it was it was holding them from going where they wanted to in their future. And so I thought that was revealing. I would have thought I would have thought that was I don't know going in 40 percent. It was 80 seemed to be 80%.

Yeah. And then I thought about, okay. If you're here in the live show, and you wanna get the course, you're into some sort of therapy or education or development or stuff like that, but whatever, okay. And I have a lot of friends, and I know a lot of people that earn weekly

and daily therapy. And then I know there's a lot of people that are on prescriptions, drugs. And while a therapy and the right prescription to the right person for the right diagnosis is necessary. I'm questioning, is there value to going, if you're not getting past this today, this week, this month, this year, or almost in a decade, because when you're still hung up and you can't get rid of that thing and your memory where it was, and it's got you paralyzed

and you're a victim of it, is there, and you're doing the therapy and you're doing the work and you're taking a prescription if that's what you're saying. Where does there, is there a value in going? If it's holding you back from going where you wanna go, maybe you should just deny the fucking thing ever, fucking happen. Kick it in the head, kick it off the curb.

I'm done with you. I'm sick of you. I'm tired of hanging out with you. I'm tired of that thing, whatever it is, hold me back from going where I want to go. So if I can't wax the car, you know, and get past this thing, kick it. That's so powerful.

So one thing to do, like with the loss of your father is to try to transform it or discover the gift in it, the gift in the pain. But if you can't keep looking, keep looking, you can't find the gift in the pain. Just denied ever happened. You could call that a trick, but I think it's more than a trick because let me say this. My mom after my father died, went on and found a second love of her life. For seven, 19 years, they were together. CJ Carling. Love you, buddy. He's moved on now.

Love you buddy. He's moved on now. Did she check with us a little bit like is this okay? She gave us a little lingering half a second look that we knew that maybe is what she was asking and we came to her Like yes, it's okay And you know who else is saying it's okay? Who's dancing up there for you dad? So who's dancing up there for you, dad. So was that her denying? At the man she was divorced from twice, a mere two, three times and had three children with, had moved on?

No, but she didn't say, I'm not, you know, well, what's the book on how long I'm supposed to say single before I can be interested in another, you know, there's not a book on these things. How do you feel? Is loving, is loving CJ, mean you're love dad less? No. is finding a new life and a new dance partner in this life. And CJ, I mean that dad wasn't your dance partner. But dad wasn't the love of your life. No. So I don't know, I mean, in there, maybe, you know, maybe there's another where I think it's denial, but it's not really denial because it's not like it didn't happen. That's an earlier example I was giving my mom, she will absolutely go, that light's not

on, mom, the light's on. That light's not on if I say it's not on. Sometimes she's just like, that makes no sense. You just absolutely denying what just happened. We even have it recorded and she'll go, well, the recording's fine. Yeah. I mean, that's part of a coping deal with her. But I mean, what I think is more important

and more valuable is to talk about this. She didn't deny my dad. Dian. But she shares hell turned a page and said, I can still start a whole new category, a new life, a new love, let my heart love and be loved by someone living in this life today that I'm still living in and that will not trespass

on my love for my husband, your father, Jimicana. And I think, I mean, we were just, thought that was beautiful. Yes, mom, go. Talk about green light, go. Now if we're hung up, going, can't have one of the, can't have them both. God, have one of the other.

Now we start to make a contradiction of the two ideas again, which don't, our contradictions get us in trouble all the time, man. That's life though, the contradictions, right? But is it life if we just admit the contradictions or so much don't they become a paradox? We just admit that that's part of it. Yeah.

If contradictions are inevitable, they, hencefully they do become a paradox, don't they? Then we're in the honey hell. Then we're sinking and dancing, and have leniency with ourselves, while still holding ourselves to task. And it's, I think it's holding on to know each contradiction. Oh, here it is again.

So it's a one off. It lives on its own separate from the last one. No, it doesn't. They're connected. That's why they are a paradox. And then that's, I think that's a much, I think that's where life really is. In the paradox. Yes.

And the dance of it, I think the metaphor of right yellow green lights is just so simple and so powerful. You write about some green lights being engineered and some being mystical. Which I love the difference of that. What's the difference of the engineered green lights and the mystical, such a cool word, mystical? Yeah. Well, the engineered ones have a reason

and the misguid ones have a rhyme. Yeah. You know, life's a mystery going forward, but it's a science looking back. I've prepared, I've had ideas, written headlines, and we had goals, and, you know, an athlete gets in shape for an event. I get in shape for a role.

I read, I study, I work, I prepare, and I go, I'm prepared, and I behave, and I do it. And I look at and I go, yes, that's what I wanted to do. It's engineered, green light. It's a conscious delayed gratification. It's that if I do it today, that pragmatic head down, believe the no cloud out there, but then I trust that there is one out there. If I keep my head down and do it, I'll get that to that dream. We can engineer those. Habit,

work ethic, prep, expertise, education. And the mystical ones, though, don't make any sense. They're not supposed to make sense. They only make sense after, right when they happen, you backlog and you connect the dots with how they got there, that red light, you went into that, made you 30 seconds later to get to the restaurant As you walked in she walked out

And you went good morning and she went good morning and Too much later your date and two years later you're married. You're after that, you've got a family and now you're sitting here for what a years later going. I love you. Look at what we built. And you go back and go.

What if I wouldn't hit that red light? Those 30 seconds, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. why it was that you were upset and ticked off that you had to pick up the kids' toys before you left and they were supposed to pick them up. And therefore you were late for the thing that made you run into and you ran into the

person that was walking in the office that the guy that you did, the interview, that's the guy you were looking for, the job you wanted and you caught him because you were in the elevator with him. And that 90 seconds on that elevator, it's what got you that job that led you doing what you want to do. I mean, the significance is there, but we have to, I think what we also got to watch is, again, in that balance. What do we chase? Because if you just chase the engineering, we mismagic. If we just chase the mystical, we find ourselves caught up in trying to give meaning to that Lego set

that was on the floor that gets didn't pick up that I and what color was it and and and why did I walk out that that door and see almost up on the Legos, but if I've gone out the other door, I usually go out of I would have gone there, I would have got there early and wouldn't run into the the boss and the so you can start to give too much meaning on that as well. I think we can give significance in too many places and all of a sudden I think we've all been there where you're seeing art in every single thing. Man, I can be paralyzing. So I started to leave a room if everything's significant, you know, or if everything's a sign. How much of success in life do you think is engineered

and how much is mystical? And how much is different from person to person? Because for me personally, maybe I enjoy it, maybe I'm genetically built that way, but I exist more in the mystical. So I don't make plans. I travel the last summer in Ukraine with no plan. I just went there.

No plan. I didn't know how I'm going to meet the president of the country. I didn't know anybody. So there's no plan. There's no clear thing. You're just roaming around. And that's how I've existed in life. And there's something about giving yourself

over to the flow of nature that I just enjoy. It makes life so much fun. It's awesome when you can do it. Did you engineer though, I'm going to put myself in the place when you got on the plane to go to the destination? That was an engineered choice. Yes, with the intent of. And maybe I'll meet and I'll run into and I can work up a sit-down with.

So the engineer choice was putting your shoes on, proverbially, you know, I always say this to hards part about going to the gyms, putting your shoes on, right? So getting on the plane, that was an engineer thought with the goal of mind, but I don't know how I'm going to do it. The choice. Yeah. Putting the shoes on. Yeah. But there's not a clear, it's a fog. What happens after the shoes go on? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just going to take that leap. So I wonder how much for people who are successful in this world and finding what makes them truly happy and fulfilled, how much of it is engineer, how much is is mystical, how much was it for you? Well, I'll say this, like when I went to write about Greenlight which is basically the last 40 years of my life, I thought that 85-90% of my successes were going to be obviously engineered, or I could see the science,

saw all the habits, here's what I did, yep, that out up, got the solution, got the conclusion. I was very surprised when I noticed that it was probably less than 50% and that most of the real success of my life were when I trusted the mis, the one I trusted that I didn't have to define it, that I only trusted that I didn't have to go, what's the measurement? What's the score? What lead, this leads to what? What's the score? What leads to what? What's next? And I, for me, that's still a challenge for me daily.

Now, it's a trust and not because I can be, I think I can be overly practical. And I think I can overcommitate and miss out on magic because I'm still going, wait, are we giving enough, are we giving enough the measure and credit to actuality? Are we, are we, are we giving enough credit to this is, these are the steps to take. And this is reality. I think I'm reminded when I trust, because that go into the mystic,

just to put yourself on the plane is the engineer but getting there and as you say you seem to you say you roll in that mystical it takes a lot of trust. Yeah. Trust in the inevitable. Amen on that. Dude, but not knowing where it actually ends you up. It's a feeling more than I don't think it's a clear vision.

Right. more than, I don't think it's a clear vision. It's kind of like a feeling that guides you towards towards a place with without a clear name, without clear characteristics, it just kind of pulls you there. Where do you get that curves and trust to go with your gut, your feeling? And is there, for instance, three days later, you sit down, is there, if you didn't, if that doesn't happen? Is there a sense, a week, two weeks later,

now when you come back to America, they're like, ah, I failed. Sort of looking back to try to analyze what went right, what went wrong, that kind of thing. Yeah, that engine is always there, but I think what pulls me forward in life, what makes me really grateful and fulfilled, is noticing the thing you mentioned, noticing the magic, and kind of going towards it. Sort of just sitting back, both in tragedy and in triumph. So in war, there's a lot of tragedy, but there's somehow One of the things you see in war and this is the first war of experience and seeing the front

Is the loss that people lose their homes and all this kind of stuff? The thing that rises from that is the love for each other So they the people I spoken with don't give a damn about the home Don't give a damn about the on farms and animals they lost don't don't give a damn about the home don't give a damn about the on farms and animals They lost don't don't give a damn about Having to move and all this kind of stuff as long as the family's still there as long as the people they love is still there and they're like That's the there's a smelling colleague smile they have on their face Like yeah, this world is full bullshit, it's full of tragedy,

life is fucking awesome. And you just notice that in little ways everywhere, you just sit back and yeah, notice the magic. And I want more of that. You just kind of follow along like a little ant. Yeah. Keep noticing that kind of thing. But I don't know. I hope, you know, what I think it is is other people notice that you're the kind of person that notices it. And they're like, I want to hang out with that person. He seems alright. Like he seems one of the one of the good ones, one of the good ants. Do you have any certain non-negotiable structure before that freedom to go with the feeling? I think so. There's so set of principles.

I'll just basically integrity of being good to other people. Like whatever that means for me, there's specific things like I am really into loyalty. Above the law, right. There's kind of like, there's a circle of friends I have, and that that means everything. There's just a basic, deep kindness towards others. There's just a basic deep kindness towards others. Empathy, empathy towards people that others, that others might label as even evil. I have that kind of empathy.

I believe all of us have the capacity to do good and evil. And so I just kind of see everybody as little babies that grow up in different conditions. And some do evil evil some do good And there's yeah, there's there's all kinds of other principles I love the dynamic between the different humans in their full diversity I love the the dynamic between the masculine the feminine enjoy it. I did the dance of it. Yeah, yeah

So you you have a constitution with which you embark. You do too. And chasing. Yes. I hope so. And then for you, for me, I'd like to, it's inspiring to hear something like yourself go, I go and I just land and I just go, I'm going to, it's inspiring to hear something like yourself go, I go and I just land and I just go, I'm going to feel it.

I can go back and go, yeah, my greatest truth is I've crossed, my greatest success in my life or when I trusted that and go, I took a one-way ticket. Amazon. Africa. Africa. Yeah. And those were spiritual and very pragmatic because they led to dealing with succeeding in other ways that are more pragmatic, 100% and gave much more meaning to those things.

But that's to be able to go out and say that's how you do your family. I really want to get married and have kids but I'm not married and don't have kids yet. So actually one of the nice things about that is you can take bigger risks. Yes. So while I'm not married and don't have kids, I feel I owe it to myself to take Just to go go to the Amazon That backpack on and one way to get yeah, that does get harder to do um I missed that

Sometimes the The whim a song that comes on you know yeah where's that got from oh they're from the place that I want to go that dream I'll go there when we dig it what I got to do oh good a couple of show okay go that that that that was fun. I would do that. Just get up and go, you're free to go and go, when are you back? When I, when I get there?

Yeah. It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. Maybe never. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As you become to visit me. In this new place, maybe.

Yeah. How did the Amazon, how did the trip there change you? What do you remember of it? Such a magical place. I stripped a lot of my past. Symbols and talismans while I was there. What I remember getting there and just having so much adrenaline on the anticipation, anticipation of getting to the Amazon. In the first 10 days, I wasn't really enjoying the trip.

I was just charging to get to the destination, to get to the banks of the river that I had to dream about. And then it just humbled me. I got so fatigued on night, whatever, 12, and was so sick and tired of the internal dialogue I was having with myself. I was not enjoying my company. That, you know, I perched. And I remember, and stripped off identity markers and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and then and of my mom and dad's clasherings from University Kentucky were gold from her teeth and his clashering melted down.

You know, taking that off was really hard to go. I'm casting out my father. Now, I wasn't casting him out. I was just removing to say, I don't have to rely on that being all of my identity. So, to pull that off, to strip down and just to where I was just a mammal. That next morning, I was light.

I got present. I remember writing something down. It's like all that I want is what I can see and what I can see is in front of me. That sense of not, I wasn't leaning around looking around every corner to get there. And as soon as that hit me, you talk about mystical successes and realities and truth, as soon as that hit me, and for the first time in 12 days, I didn't care about getting there or what was around the corner. I guess what was around the next game corner. The Amazon. I mean, not around a few corners. The next corner, there it was. And that was just like a two-shay. You know, those times when the

prime mover at the universe, God, what we want to name or believe in says, Ding! There you go. And that form of detachment from holding on for dear life to things in past, holding on for dear life to things in past. So hard, that's not letting the beauty that's right in front of you to feel correctly and follow our intuition to have those not cast them out. I didn't burn them. I didn't get rid of those things. I just took them off and had to recognize you're still here. You are you. You're much more that is a talisman. That's a symbol that means something to you and that's good. Don't cast out the meaning, but it's not like when the rings off and the hats off and the crucifixes off your neck that you're like, you're going to die. And I know, those

are reminders. Hang on to what they mean for you as we go forward. But as we go forward, we're worried about so much about you. Again, I was looking at the proverbial dream, the cloud so much that I was tripping over myself to get there. And like clockwork, just amazing grace, boom, as soon as it hit me. And I was like, ah, that's it. All I want is what I can see and all I can see is in front of me. Literally looking down at the ground, at what was a sea of 10,000 wild neon blue Amazonian butterflies on the ground. As soon as they fluttered up, my head came up with them. Took a few more steps and there's the Amazon.

That's what you came over here for. Oh, howdy. Those kind of, that truth like that. Well, the Amazon is interesting too because it really has no past or future. It loses the moment because of how fast it turns. It just eats up life. It like, if a thing dies, it just gets swallowed up

because I'm maybe because of the humidity, because of all that, because there's so many living creatures that kind of eat each other, live on each other, so it really exists in the moment. And all this kind of diversity of life there, it's such an interesting place. Talk about food chain. Yeah, you're of diversity of life there. It's such an interesting place. Talk about food chain. Yeah.

You're just part of it there. Yeah. We, we human somehow escaped that food chain, but we're still, the roots are still there. Are we air? I think we're a bit arrogant to think we've escaped. You think I'm being romantic in that, in that, in that notion? Well, sometimes when you're in a big city

when you're in Austin, Texas and LA you can think like oh, there's When a car when a house were safe, but Yeah, somehow somehow somehow as nature is a little part of us our roots are still a part of us I think it is more than we realize more than than we give a credit for. I actually believe that we are, that's a really arrogant notion to think that we are separate, meaning, you know, people talk about pollution on a larger scale that the climate would have you. I think Earth's going to be just fine. We may be not be here for it, but I think we have a bit of arrogant sometimes to think that we can trump mother nature. I think we have more, more of the natural law in us. And I sure hope so if I'm wrong.

Well, there's an interesting, I've recently been, there's a guy named Max Tecmark at MIT who really wears a new clear war and he was part of constructing a simulation of what happens when a new clear war happens. And it's interesting to see that some very large percentage of humans on Earth starved to death, because they don't die first from the explosion. They die from starvation. Because basically dust covers the entire North America and entirety of Europe.

And so the crops all die. all the food sources all die, and people suffocate and starve to death. But the lesson you learn from that over a period of a few months, even though most of the human population of Earth dies, Earth finds away, life finds away. To adapt. And it's going to be just fine. In terms of the big living ecosystem that is life on earth. And yeah, it's humbling to think about, well, maybe we're just the stepping stone. Same thing with talked offline about artificial intelligence. Maybe humans are just the stepping stone to the development of these other super intelligent entities. Yeah

Yeah And is it unconsciously in our nature that that's just part of the evolution and adaptation of our species and will because we're gonna We were talking about earlier, what AI becomes is completely 100% based on who we are. And we get to see it for some time, a mirror to ourselves. Okay, this is what human civilization is like. These AI systems, large language models, are trained on human communication, and you get to ask questions, you get to have conversations with it, and you get to realize, wow, this is what the collective intelligence of the human species are collective wisdom and knowledge, that's what it looks like. All the bias, the hate, the paradoxes, all that is in there.

The contradictions, you can even convince those models. You can tell them they're lying and they're going to start changing their mind. It's interesting to play with them. It's also interesting to consider that maybe they become smarter than us and become almost life forms that live among us and maybe one day kind of emerge with them. There's all kinds of possible trajectories that we take care. How much of that excites you, how much of it scares you?

Is it possible to exist in a place where it is both exciting and scary, but to exist in that dance? Mostly, I'm really excited because I see human beings as deeply lonely. Like there's a deep loneliness at all. It's that's how we see connection. That's why we see connection. Now that's why love is so beautiful when we find other people we're connected with. And I just think AI can add to that. You can add friends that you can have great conversations with. And then some of those friends would be AI systems.

They'll call you out in your bullshit in the most fascinating and interesting of ways and challenge you and help you explore ideas together. So I'm excited by that. Is that different and if so, how from? The internet and Facebook's and these groups and communities that were, I think it's fair to say, set out to say this all access of information to people will help us find more common denominators than divisive ones. Is it, do you see it in a similar? Yeah, it's similar but further into that direction I think the internet has done an amazing thing and connecting us and expanding our minds and helping us find community That feels like our community and then the communities that are totally different you learn from them

I mean Wikipedia alone one of my favorite websites Just opens your mind to all kinds of cool stuff. Yeah, it does. And not do it. Yes, I'm a sister. No. And so I think AI just makes that even easier because Wikipedia have to like read and have to do a lot of work with an AI system, like a large language model. It can just shoot the shit. It's more like drinking a beer and have to do a lot of work with an AI system, like a large language model, it can just shoot the shit. It's more like drinking a beer versus doing homework.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's already happening. What do you think about that becoming the new family to where you said, you know, marriage and I've kids, could you see a future for yourself? Or do you have a relationship with AI and that is your family? And that's the main, that's the primary,

like even romantic relationship. Yeah. I can see it. That one worries me. I like to keep it at friends. Right. I think I'm not ready to commit to the romantic. It's I wonder how much that now that takes us back to the Amazon in nature.

How much we still need the human touch and whatever magic there is between two humans, which takes the leap into the romantic versus just the intimacy of a good friendship. I don't know. So correct for wrong, you you see A.I. as having a deep and meaningful friendship. Yes. And hopefully it will be a friend that will help you evolve and be able to love even more and be loved and you can take that into humanity and find another homo sapien. Yes. And thank you, AI, my great friend, for opening me up to this beauty that I have myself. I can see in you, my fellow human. And let's come together and biologically create family if we want to. And let's all remain friends with my friend and make your own friends with my friends friends on AI. And let's have these great neighbor to good friend, that great friend that to neighbor.

Yeah. Okay. Mentor and friend. Just like, now there's AI systems that play chess far, far, far better than humans. And we humans still play chess with each other. Or the chess is still a game that's fun for us humans. Right. And then we use the AI systems to get better at chess to learn, to train, to discover new ideas. But ultimately, we return to the chess board between two humans.

But of course, this world is full of dangerous people. So those same AI systems can be used to harm, to create false narratives, to do social engineering and manipulate the masses in terms of what they believe and all that kind of stuff. That's scary. Yeah. Well, and I get it when we, and I have my own fear and distrust as of AI is based on my own fear and distrust of myself and others. There's something, it's so very simple, but I think it's really done sort of way to just set up this reality. It's kind of a duh, but still needs to be said that AI is a prompt. It doesn't do anything unless we ask it. So, what questions?

Yeah, are we gonna ask? Is a question, is what we need to ask ourselves? Because we're going to be looking in the mirror at our digital God that we create from ourselves. And just to know that that's that place where it's awesome and scary exciting. In scary, we go, oh, it's it's it's our creation. Which is awesome. At the same time, oh, shit. But it's it's prompted by our questions and gives us patterns from

with that which we give it. from that which we give it. But that prompting, that's the art of life. Like, we prompt each other in conversation. Our loved ones, when you go out, about your day today, the next word you say, the next word you say to me, the question I ask, of you, that's prompting. And it could change everything.

I can say so many things right now that will completely just the set of possibilities where both of our lives can take, given on the selection of words I use and you use, it is crazy. It makes conversation fun. Yeah. And that same thing with AI. Except the nice thing about AI is it's tireless. Tireless. Right. Let me ask you this.

You can falsely condemn me right now. And I prove you falsely condemn me. I can forgive you. And we can march forward stronger than before. Yes. In AI's tirelessness and retention. Can it forgive? I mean, can it, can it, can it go?

Oh, oh, okay. Yep. Sorry about that one. That was wrong. Can it amend? Yes. Yeah, you could prompt one. I was wrong. Can it amend? Yes Yeah, you could prompt it to ask for forgiveness and you'll forgive you We like when I talk it around with it

Yeah, and you ask it. What should I be afraid of you? Or is it was the doomsday? It's anchors always will it's up to you Which it was awesome, right? Yeah, again, it's up to you. Which it was awesome, right? Yeah. And go again, it's up to us. And it brought up, you know, make me synonymous with your human values and ethics and responsibilities and very, but it doesn't deal with it. I didn't find anyway. Deal with defining or making choices on its own of what those are.

Yeah. defining or making choices on its own of what those are. Yeah, I think some of that is manually those are constraints put on by it by the creators of those large language models. Basically, not letting the systems have an identity of their own. And some of it is just not engineered in yet, but I believe that we'll have Systems that have an identity have a belief have a set of opinions like they carry through time And will we go to them like certain states where we agree with the law and disagree with the law or nations and I'm a member of This AI. Oh, we're from this AI tribe. You all believe this. Yeah, there'll be an anarchist set of AI's,

there'll be the communists, there'll be the Nazis, there'll be the Democrats and the Republicans, there'll be the people who are in the keto diet and the people that are in this other kind of diet, this other kind of lifestyle, just like we have now, there's little groups and there'll be AI systems. They're going to be super charged. Yeah. They'll be either the leaders of the foundation on which we build those groups.

It'll be the possibility of all the fun we can have is endless. Of course, the danger is always rise up there because I mentioned the Nazis. I mentioned all the dangerous ideas. The set of ideas that humans have come up with, a lot of them are awesome. Most of them are awesome, I would say, but some of them are dangerous. The reason they're dangerous is because they become viral. There's something exciting in us about those ideas, but they also harm others a lot. This is that's who we are, humans, we're, uh, we're capable of envy and all the dark stuff of hate and all this.

Capable. Yes. We also choose it. Do you think most people are good? Yes. But I also believe we got the good, evil and all of us in which it's to which point which, which willfully feed. You asked people to draw distinction, to describe where are you acting and where are you being? What's the difference? What's, what's the difference between being fake? I may use that word and being real. Okay. Yeah, and the word authentic gets thrown around a lot.

And, you know, I, and, and I don't mean, I used to think, I used to be a pillow this way, but Bob Dylan loosened me up on this idea a little bit. You think it was all about get to be the your only one and only true self? That's it. You think it was all about get to be the your only one and only true self. That's it. Everything else is fake. And then your Bob go, well, I mean, we are,

will we create ourselves to be? We are our own creations. We're talking like, oh, yes, yes, we are. Thank you, Bob. Bobby. What? I'm off from bullshittards and bullshitting. I'm not as big a fan of the liars and lying.

What's the distinction? You talk about the art form of bullshit. A liar's fake, a liar's faking it, but not admitting to themselves that, yeah, it's a fucking creation, I'm faking it. Yeah. A liar, I'm lying to your face right now and I don't give you that hair of a wink out of my right

I let you know, hey, go with me here. Yeah. I think the value in the bullshitting. Yeah. Now, the lying becomes troublesome because one, I've duped you and I didn't let you know. Come on, I was just telling the story about catching the fish. Fish always gets bigger, every year,

you were telling a story, come on, go with it. All right. But the lying, all of a sudden, I don't know my own. I don't know when I'm emanating something and creating something to tell the truth, be an authentic or lion. And I'm shit. All of a sudden I'm leaving crumbs with myself.

A debt constitution gets blurry. Aligning to yourself and to others. Yeah, well, you start to lie. You lie. Others are not. You start to lie to yourself. You don't even know it. And that I believe is dangerous territory.

That's why I'm trying to push this admit because that goes, I'm not to, I'm trying to come in at a kindergarten level because we immediately jump to, well, I'm gonna judge that. Boom, that's bad, that's wrong. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, hold back on that. Let's go back to base level. Let's just admit that we all fucking do it. Lies we tell others, lies we tell ourselves, lies we believe for convenience sake. I do it, I'm guilty of it. I try to catch myself on it, if I can just call it and go, you know you're believing that lie out

and convenient to something like, I know. And I have to, if you know what I'm saying that in the mirror, writing it down or sharing with a friend, you know, and I go, okay, well now I've inherently become a bullshitter then because I admitted it. That I can shake hands with. That's the little slight wink to ourself and someone else to go, come on, it's a better story this way. In the chorus road trip, you start with step one. I admit. How do you do that? How do you kind of step back and do that inventory?

Yeah. Is there a trick to that? Oh, if there's a trick to it, I think it's just a bad courage of having the... Because it's... I don't think any of us like to admit our lives or look deep enough in the go. I've relied so much on that lie that it's become my reality. And I don't want to be so pure tanical. As to say, again, that's why I say, did mit instead of judge, but I don't want to be so

pure tanical as to go and admit it and get rid of it. No, just saying you need to admit it. Just bring it to the surface. Yeah, I'm saying this and I'm doing something different. I preach this, but I actually my actions just admit it. Just admit it, just admit them. And I think that's the first step to where we begin to either forgive herself and give herself some amnesty and go, yeah, I'm a human.

I'm trying to make it through life's best I can. I'm going to let myself slide on that one. Okay. And maybe I'm going to get away with it for so long. Whole family, my whole network works well on it, okay? Forget this, get to the base of the truth of the matter. Let me just admit it. And then it will also help, it'll be easier to then expose to ourselves, which ones we go, no.

I'm not letting myself slide on that anymore. That is actually a lie. I've been believing that's been keeping me from getting more of what I want in life. That's actually a lie. I've been living that I haven't admitted that is not allowing me to enjoy life as much as I damn well, should be, deserve to be or I've earned to be, or just sort of let myself, excuse me, and I had on it. So it's not all the hard stuff. Sometimes it can be a fun thing. I'm talking about how many times we major in our minors.

Let's admit where we sit there and we go, all right, I give myself 12-hour workday, but I notice I'm spending eight on the hobbies and four on my career. On majoring in my minors. Let me admit that. There's the math. Why don't we invert that? I've had four hours on my hobbies and eight on my career. First off, just admitting it allows me to go and now I can do the math, or rearrange the math by time of day But I look I just found a hobby tennis first top. Yeah, I've had in 25 years I had to admit that I that I went to play tennis for the start of love it for the first month. I saw film guilty

I was like I'm happy is it okay to have this much fun? I'm so much fun and I'm getting, is it okay to have this much fun? I'm having so much fun, and I'm getting a great workout. And I was like, yes, it's okay. Congratulations, but he found something that you're finding quite pleasurable for straight pleasure. You don't have to forget all this other stuff, but yeah, but it's also getting a workout. We ain't getting that too, but don't just,

you don't have to get skews the pleasure, based on oh, but it's also getting workout. We ain't getting that too, but don't just, you don't have to get skews the pleasure based on, oh, but it's good for you. And you're in it. Now, you, damn it, real reason you love it's cause you're having so much damn fun at it. I admit that to let myself go. Damn, I'm going to play Dant to Sink in today. Or tomorrow, it was a simple fun thing.

So it's not always about the hard core stuff that we have to go. This is a deep dark lie that I've been living by and it's having me live falsely and it's having harmful consequences on my loved ones. Some of those will probably arise and we admit, or at least just having a look around and it's just saying. And when we admit it, then we go, when we admit a lie, then we become something much more valuable, a bullshit. Yeah. Yeah, the little wink in your eye. I love the distinction.

I'm bullshitin' myself on that thing. Yep, I'm lying. Therefore, if I call on a lie, I'm admit a lie. Yep, well, now I'm bullshitin'. Yep, now she's out. Didn't judge it. But, I'm in a line. Yep, well, now I'm bullshitting. Eat. Nice just out. Didn't judge it. But now I'm bullshitting. That, I think we can work with.

Well, you're an interesting case study because you're one of the most famous, one of the most charismatic, successful humans in the world. There's a lot of millions of people love you. Hang on. Every one of your words. That's a hard place to be. How do you call yourself? How do you admit that you've been living a lie?

How do you admit yourself in big ways and small ways, on lies, at this point, given how many people love you, how famous you are. 10 years ago, I don't know. I don't know, I don't know. Some of us talking about like, yeah, they really admired this so and so person because they're not so many looks in the mirror. And I was like, yeah. And all of a sudden I was like, man, I gotta catch myself looking in the mirror. And I was like, yeah. And all of a sudden I was like, man, I got

catch myself looking in the mirror a lot. And then I go in and I, you know, look at my wife's side of her bathroom. How many different creams and stuff she has out there. Look at my side. I got a lot more on my side. I'm like, oh, I notice how if I'm out and the other like working out, maybe doing push-ups. Maybe I do a few more. If there's a group of people walking by that maybe I'd like to impress, then I'd do a few more than I do if I was on my own. I'm like, you are. And the knee jerk is, oh, vanity bad. And I was like, awesome.

I became a bullshitter once I admitted in vain. I was like, well, bravo, vanity. Let's go vanity. Let's, instead of putting it in the cupboard, in the lie section, oh, I'm in the vein, because that's a debit. No, admit it. And then go, what's the value in it? Well, I can look at it.

Yeah, I'm actually gotten better shape because of my vanity. Actually, I eat better. It's a better night more than you know. I've, in that lead to, you know, better husband, better dad doing something with my kids when I'd rather be over there writing this work I'm working on, but I know that tomorrow, when they leave town, they're going to remember this time that we had together.

That's a selfish act to go spend that time with my kids, or even though I'd rather not be doing it at that time, I'd be doing something for myself. Because when they leave tomorrow, they've got, they'll have this great memory that they spent with their dad right before they went. That, that, that, I could call that vanity. I could group that and say, that's very vain of you. I have this forself. Yeah. Because it was also for some and someone that I cared about. Other people in your life that call you on your bullshit in the bad sense of the word bullshit. Yeah. Sometimes it either I got a pretty thick threshold for how far I can go with my bullshit. Like what?

can go with my bullshit. Like what? Bruse what tickles me my bruise others to watch it. That's a good line. Yeah, um, tickles me my bruise others. But I also, I go back and talk about the bullshit. that's over there with those mystical successes. It's the, yeah, no, don't go with it. Don't pull a parachute yet. Let's see how far we can go. Let's see how hot I can get. Let's try it one more time. Yes. Two more please. That's where a lot of great pleasure and stories and successes will come from. Those are mystical.

They don't add up. We're not talking about reason right now. We're not talking logic. Just go with this. Let's talk about the virtual and making it real. The old line of fake it till you make it. I mean, what is that? There's something to that.

There's definitely something to it. But I would, you know, where people will go fake it as, I would go back to Dylan's or create it, recreate it, create and recreate it, you know, until you, till it becomes, till you make it. So I have people call them on bullshit, and a lot of times you're right. I think, when I handle it the most healthy way is I admit yes. And I'm aware. So I'm and I'm going to keep going.

You know, like resisting it tonight. I will. I will. I have to watch that where I'm like, no, I'm not. That's not what I'm doing. And you know, and usually when it's coming from people there, they're going, no, you are. It's like, I want to bid it. And then that's where I'm telling a lie. And that'll come up, get me later and I'll go, I didn't see it. I didn't see how I was doing that. I was either unaware. I wouldn't let myself be aware.

I was denying that I was doing that. Would you say that's ego? Does ego been bad or good for you? Gosh, I think it's been, I'm so thankful for ego. Um, do, does it get off the bridal for me sometimes and run loose and run in places and where it's not of service to it's in sync with where I serve myself, also serves others. It's those two are part and parcel, they're intertwined.

And that's the capital E ego that I think I think it hope we all need more of. And that's what I mean when I talk about selfish, that's the redefining that with the real true meaning that is not doing something for self at expense of your neighbor or harming others. It's for personal profit and pleasure, that also is profit and pleasure for a utilitarian sense

more of others. And there's, there's again, back to the paradox, I think there's a place, I know there's a place, I believe there's a place where those are in sync. And when my, there's, again, back to the paradox there. I think there's a place, I know there's a place. I believe there's a place where those are in sync. And when my ego's healthy, I'm able to say, I'm sorry, sooner for a lie, or a misdemeanor or harm somebody, I'm able to be more empathetic

because I got the confidence. Yeah. To be so. I'm able to be more humble. But still have a chin high, my heart high and look in the eye and go. Yep, my bad, bogey, guilty. I My bad, bogey, guilty. I shanked that one out of bound, man. That's B.O.F.E. put, so Ego can be constructive, not destructive. You want an Oscar for your performance in Dallas-Biers Club? Can you tell the story of becoming that character, Ron Woodruff? What was the toughest part? The toughest part, which was the most enlightening part,

was getting to know who he was in between the lines. We're based on a life story in an hour and a half of film. And script is great. But who was he in between the lines? Who was he before? He started business before he was on a crusade. Before he went to alternative medicines. And you know, the the the obvious thing people always talk about, well, I had you lose all that weight. That was not hard. That was just a militaristic decision. This is where I can eat each day. And if I do this each day for a week, I'll lose 2.5 pounds a week. So I'm going to give myself five months to do that.

2.5 times as 10. There's a year there's 47 pounds. was like clockwork so that was easy that decision was made I didn't go to the pizza hut buffet and have temptation in front of me I had certain meals I ate that and then when they're in the wait just went off like clockwork it was the who is Ron Woodruff in between the lines and what the gift I got given that gave me the insight to who that man was, was I went to see his family and as far as I was leaving. His family offered me his diary.

And I remember it kind of has it going, wow, yes, but I kind of hesitated because it felt maybe a little too intimate of a thing for me to have. It felt like it was kind of maybe infringing a bit, but I opened my hand and took it. And what I got in the diary was I got to know who Ron was before he had HIV. And little thing, the diary he'd write in and in me, the the dreamer he was, and getting all set on a Sunday night and laying his shirt out and ironing it for the next morning, making sure that his little pager had fresh batteries in it, because tomorrow morning he was going to cross down to hook up some speakers for 38 bucks or whatever. And then getting up that morning and writing about what kind of coffee

he drank and how much gas it was going to take to get over a cross down to do that job and hook up up those speakers. And then on the way over page coming in to say, no, we don't need you. We've gone with somebody else to hook them up. And here he was all buttoned up to cup to coffee in hair slicked over shirt iron. Little less than half tank of gas, but enough to get back home. Now where's this Monday go? The hope and the disappointment. You have to take all that in. That's part of that man.

I'm just going to go to Sonic and get a double cheese bacon burger because Chilo over there, man, she's kind of cute. She always gives me half price on it. Which leads to Roland rolling joint hanging off those she gets off the work. Sneaking over the local motel and shacking up at room 16. That's been lucky number 16. She la. Then wandering out that night. Getting home one of them morning. No plans for Tuesday. And maybe later in the week, think about what I'm going to do, about work or job. And these little dreams would get me peak and want to. And then

something would happen where he wouldn't follow through or the deal would go down. The deal would go south. That, no one who that there's in there was where I saw who he was a dreamer. And, and, and, and he just couldn't catch the break and didn't follow through. And then I remember his family said, like, oh, yeah, he invented it. He got patents on him, a whole bunch of things, but he never would, he had things to get patent, but never would follow through to get the government patent. And then later on, you'd see the product be made or sold on QVC or something, they'd be like, Ron, that was yours. Are there still your idea?

Did you patent that? And he'd be like, no, like never would that, that there's something beautiful and sad about that. That let me inside who he was, his heart, and who he wanted to be, and what he was hoping to be and trying to be, it couldn't quite pull off. When you go that deep, this is a part of him staying you forever?

Are you able to let go? I mean, I hope so. I look, there's a tenacity to survive that I got from him. I look hopefully I can try and find some of that in different ways in any character that I go play because that's if you if you if you really want to give a character an obstacle to overcome a need. I mean the base one is life and, whether that's the need to survive or the need to stave off extinction. I'm not talking about what the rules, the laws are, the social more is the manners and graces. I'm fighting you, you're going to fight for your own life in a world that's not supporting you to do so?

You, there's a wonderful courage of, okay, watch this. What do I got to lose? My life or I'm in charge of extending it and get out of the way. And I'll pick your pocket along whatever it takes. So there's a tenacity to live by whatever means necessary to survive that I reminded of that I learned from Ron. So on that line of survival between life and death, you start in True Detective, which I think explores some darker aspects of human nature. What did you take from that from that role, that experience philosophically, psychologically, the freedom of being on Ireland. He was such a singular character and of a singular mind. And as you know, it wasn't a dance party up there in his mind. It was some heavy stuff.

But also, existentially for him always like, death would be a deliverance for him. It also be a cop out in a way. It also will be, It also be a cop out in a way. It also be... He was not a man who was going to give himself amnesty and didn't allow it from the rest of the world. It wouldn't give himself an out.

And while living in his head and heart and spirit was more of a hell than arguably dying. There's no alternative. That's not negotiable for that man. And that's why he was such a, that's why he was the best detective that ever walked the earth. That's why he was such a superhero in a way to have that singular. You don't go, oh, I wish I was in. No, but you'd like, wow. That constitution that clarity of identity Talk about a measure and a man's constitution. He didn't allow anybody off the hook, especially himself You wanted him to forgive a little bit or give himself a little empty. You wanted him to like, man, it's Saturday, bro. Can you go on a date? You wanted him to like enjoy

something, but he was connected to something and his DNA, who he was, and something much more baseline truth. And that's why he was such a good detective. So that, but there's an island as much as that company can be. I said earlier, Amazon Trip, I didn't want to join the company. There's parts I think that I maybe gave to myself to Rustin Cole and also that Rustin Cruel is giving back to me that are like, yeah, when you're, when you want to pull the parachute because you can't stand the company that you're in McConaughey and your own mind, the Scratic Dialogue is driving you crazy.

Don't pull the parachute, stick with it. Go through it. So you were able to walk around with that tormented mind of his- Tormented. I did, I didn't have very much patience for mendacious talk. I didn't have as much patience for mendacious talk. I didn't have as much patience for small talk.

I wasn't tormented, but the character was, and you have to embody him. So is that, I mean, does some of that bleed over? Are you able to separate the menu R from the character? It's not, look, am I able to separate it? Yeah, I came home to my kids. And when they walk and the door and greet me and go, what'd you do today? And you got three kids under 10 years old. You don't tell them about the scene where you help someone commit suicide. And it's just, you know, so you turn it into a parable.

And actually, I've always said this, having kids has made me a better actor, a better storyteller because I have to parable a certain thing. And tell it in ways that they go, oh, neat, you know. So, I did, I, did I go, did I bring it home? I didn't bring torment, did I bring introspection into my own?

The characters for me, and I think this is true for a lot of actors and actresses. We don't, it's not a separation. If I've got, we each have everyone else in us. It's just seeing diving into Rust and Gold, knowing where his mind and heart is from the hand of Nick Petzolato who wrote the character and wrote the whole series. Understanding, I remember one, what the hell am I saying? What's he talking about? Then going deeper into that, well, this person really believes that.

What does that say about how they move? Then I'm going all of a sudden, who is that in me? What part of my left brain is locked into that? What part of my reptilian brain is latched onto that, where this other stuff is non-negotiable. Then I just live in that, and it's I always talk like a 70s equalizer. Remember the old L. Miron's equalizers? You can move up your 500HKZ, you move up your 60, you just re-balance the equalizer, and we all have, so it's just going to those parts of me where I'll turn up the volume, some parts of the base, re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re- seeing torment where it should be seen.

Am I reading the news differently or things coming out of the news and catching my eye? As being bullshit or lies or truth that is just hard and going, yep, yeah. I'm seeing it through a different lens, but I'm seeing my own life through a different lens. A lens that was opened up, and an aperture that was opened up through Rust and Cole.

I mean, the process of being an actor and actress, I guess is a really interesting way to be a philosopher of human nature. Yeah, I mean, it's an incredible... Really in it. Dive into the humanities. And all the allergies and philosophy. And as I said, I've gone to, as I opened up that question like that, the, being on a island is a vacation.

I am also conscious for five months when I'm playing Rustin Cole that, this is an interesting thing. I've never, I was as strong spiritually with my relationship with God when I did true detective as I've ever been. Why is that? Okay, which you would say, wait minute in some ways that's a those are antonyms. They do where you know, but my I pretty pretty safely can say that my own strength of

spirit in my own personal life, Matthew's life, that gave me the confidence to go further away. Deeper into the torture and deeper into the, but it was still, he was still always going after truth. That was the thing. He was not an evil man. I don't even know if you can call him a non-believer, but he was always going after the truth and the truth burned and he would take the scar and get burned for it. He'd die for it. That something was actually from

biblical about that. You know? And so, but I've been, I don't think it's coincidence that I was had so much jure de v'vave of diving into the depths of that tortured character. Because I trusted that when I go out, I'll come up the other side. It's always like jumping in a pool of water. And can you trust you'll come up the other side and not, you know, you go play a criminal, you trust you're gonna not gonna come out the other side of Tyrant in real life. He's go, oh, God, I got to go do that came out and I'm still alive. I've got all my faculties. I'm not in jail. I'm what, whatever it is. And so my own spiritual out of that time, you know, it definitely I think gave me a certain trust and confidence to go further into the dark.

It was announced that you'd be starring in a Yellowstone spin-off show. What do you think about the cowboy ethos, the permeate Yellowstone and other shows created by Taylor Sherdon? Yeah. You're a Texan. I have a Texan. Yeah.

What do you think about that like philosophy and way of life? I admire the simplicity of it. I mean, one way you could explain Yellowstone and Cossars roles, what will Yellowstone and Costars roles what? What will man do to protect land and family? In a world that's trying to encroach in a world where

There's a cabo ethos that deems trespassing more clear There's a cabo ethos that deems trespassing more clear. Earlier, then met then other, other hat. I admire that simplicity of right and wrong. And that the simplicity of that right and wrong doesn't always correlate coincide with the law. No, it's above the law. You mentioned something earlier, I remember where it was in conversation. It's moving a little bit of like,

okay, if the law I am handling this, I am. And then it is the law is not going to handle this. Therefore, I am. And then it is, I'm handling this law. Talk to them when you get to them. I'm handling this because it's a slippery slope. Because of the power in that power corrupts, it can be a slippery slope where you completely disregard the law and you can hurt a lot of people. But when done right, there feels to be something really authentic and human about that. Protect family, protect land, above all

else. Yeah. Look, I, you know, this is a broader question, but I'm going to piggyback it off of this. Back to the dreams and reality, evolved species and how do we do in creating a digital God and AI in these communities and friends that challenge us and think like us, we're not going to hang out with. Do you think we're less evolved species than we give ourselves credit for? Do you think we give ourselves credit for being more evolved than we actually are? I think we do. I do.

I think we need to admit that. I think probably the Kaboaheethos is a step in towards admitting that. And that's why it's so appealing to people. It kind of wakes them up to realize that we are, we're not so far from our ancestors. That the values of loyalty are really important. Trust. On the basic human level. How do you know if you can trust someone? I don't know if I can trust someone.

Well, I don't know a trick to it. I do not know a trick to it, but I do come in, as I believe you do, with high trust. I come in with a as I believe you do with high trust. I come in with a, I'm told. Sometimes I think, I'm told that I trust too much. Sometimes. Have you been hurt?

Have you been betrayed? And if you have, has that hurt your willingness to trust? No, it hurt. And I put that person and those people in another category back here and do my best not to let them know that it bothered me at all, but I know when I am with those people. But a new person, you're still willing to do that. No, I'm not going to do that.

I think that's just that's beginning a cynicism, which I think is a horrible disease of getting older. I'm not going to do that. I fight in the cynicism office as much as you can. No way, no way, no way. There's no there's no residual in it. Yeah, no win. Yeah. Um, it's easy.

It's clever. It gets the laugh at the party. But uh, and if it sleeps well, it shouldn't be Don't get comfortable in the cynicism. I have to ask about being a Texan You're like when I think Texas I think What's it mean to be a Texan to you? I recently moved to Austin, Texas some Two years in. All right.

All right. Welcome. What's the mean to be a text? Educators. Texas is about independence. Politically Texas is not about Republican or Democrat. It's about independence, independence of spirit, sovereignty. Texas is about exploration. One of the other things I love about Texas is I run into so many Texans around

the world. Texans are taught to go be tech conservative area learn your learn learn who we are. Then go go explore pioneer journey and hopefully you come on back with some goods and some stories stories. You Texan. And underneath that is this kind of freedom of being an individual in the for me of that word. Yeah. Well, Texas is liberal on your entrance. Very liberal on your entrance. Best regulation. Hey, welcome. High trust. High trust, sir. Welcome to our state. Come on in. Yes. Yes. Yes. But if you like heat steel, we're conservative on our consequences. That's a good line. You've briefly pondered running for governor. I don't know if that's in your future. I hope it is.

You had a few good lines about it. Do you think about that kind of stuff, about what the future holds in terms of political office? I don't think about it as terms of political office. I've graduated to a broader, larger thought of what my future holds and where and would I be most useful as a leader? I think that's a fair word. Whether that's thought, whether that's the leader of my family right now.

It's a parent, it's a father, the leader of people that work with me. Politics, it's, it's, I'm not going to say it's, because it's not, it's not small. And I'm not, I don't, that's, that's why I say that out loud say it's not small. I don't know. That's why I say that out loud. It's not small. I do think it needs to re-engineerery to find what its purpose is before because it's just chasing its own tail right now with the two parties that seem to me to be completely about just invalidation of the opposition instead of vision of themselves.

So I think it needs redefinition of what it is because it is important. That's what I mean. That's why I said I don't mean small. It needs to think bigger about what it is and how it's useful. When it seeks to invalidate a small, when it seeks vision, it can be big. Yes. Well, one's affirmative, one's going into that sentence and we were talking about. And validation of any opposing thought, or maybe that were even opposing. Opposition is an arrogant term. That's too strong.

So a lot of times it's not even an opposition, alternative, other than another way of thinking about it. Oh, could both be true. Oh, how can we parlay those two ideas? You know, one of the challenges with these ideas of a third party or reaching the middle, it's kind of got this historic notion of a B&O where it comes to your cum saw, it's sort of Mr. and between, kind of go which way the windows. I think done the right way, and it doesn't have to be under a third party's name necessarily, but it's actually an incredibly rebellious position right now.

And it's actually, and I love sports, it's tactically the place with which to move most advantageously. I think of their free safety in the game of football. They're in the middle of the field and they're deep. They choose to defend left or right according to the play that's been called by the offense. Similar to the offense, the run-and-back, you read the deepest thing, and then you're going to run right to run left to go away from that opposition. It's a tactical spot. To be truly independent and respond. And respond.

So do you think you have a role in that in political officers? I don't know. It's on mine. It's not out of my mental box. And I gave it real sincere thought and discernment for over a year. And it's a wonderful weather, whether it ended up, whether it ended up in politics or

not, it was a wonderful exercise, one that if anyone else got time to do it, do it, to ask yourself what you would do if you were CEO of a state, CEO of a nation, CEO of the world, that's a great thing to go, you want to get your values line? You want to admit where you lie and throw yourself some pop quizzes and what this phone call comes at 4 a.m. What you got to, you know, who you want to surround yourself with. It's really great questions to ask and I think has helped me better, more micro level, be a better father and better man, taking considerations that I did not maybe take in as seriously before considering it. I don't know if that's in my future. I got, you know, useful is a big word. It's got to be, I would have to be useful. I have to be useful in the right way.

And is that my lane to be most useful? It's a good question for a leader to ask, how can I be useful? I have to ask you about interstellar. So I think it's an incredible film. I've seen it inspire so many scientists and engineers. It's just philosophy. Everybody humans, it explores space travel, physics of space time, human nature, human condition, human connection. How is that film expanded your understanding of the universe and our place in it? Well, it's got the old Mr. Mayor on the corner and how big is that cloud metaphor in it

because that was the character I played Cooper's, that was the existential question for him. Head down, practical, stay here, be a father to my children. But it's dream, before his children would go explore space. So when he's taking that truck out and the countdown's going down, that's the hinge of the existential question that we all face in some form. The sense of time, I wish I think everyone loves that sense of where time can run at different speeds.

And there's a incredible scene where Cooper is a father's, getting video feed from his children who've aged and he's realizing he's missed all that. Yeah. You know, I mean, overall, that concept makes me consider and imagine. We talk about mystical successes instead of engineered ones like the engineered ones that there's, there's, there's, there's ethos from that film and, and, and what Nolan put into that film and theories that make me go, yeah, what does it do this matter? What do we, maybe we are, maybe we're a, like it makes me go when we maybe this is all it's

already all been it's already all been written what's happening right now in this blip of time you're here 53 years so far we'll see how many we get um what other parallel timelines are happening out there do it is it is it small minded of us to define life on other planets as only something that can live within a climate that has water in this amount of O2? Those terms may be too small. What do you mean? Who are we saying only life has to have water in this amount of oxygen and carbon dioxide? Maybe there's a whole redefinition of the ingredients that other life forms need. I don't know, maybe that's maybe there's a whole redefinition of the ingredients that other life forms need

It's sure in a similar way to contact is a move. I did Bob's and mechus Inspires me that the universe is more active and lively and God's backyards bigger than I thought and wow That's exciting and you know people going out yeah you believe in extra life I said yes man I think it'd be arrogant not to I sure hope so you think there's alien civilizations all out there intelligent ones just far and far on distant stars I hope so. And I think we, it's possible. We have many, among us right here, and I go for the, the why not in that, just to keep that, that train of thought open

to learn and consider, you know, those exit questions. I think the area get not to. There's so many hundreds of billions of planets just in our galaxy. Just an hour. I can't imagine there's not life out there. And but I suspect it's very different, like you said, than we are. And we have to have a humility to open our eyes to how different life could be. And if and when we cross it,

unlike we've had tenancies to do when we try to go with some nation-tag overs, I think it would be our inherent glitch to go in believing that any other life form civilization wants to take over territories, to go into it with thinking that, okay, this is an opposition. I mean, I think that's a human trait of ours. And to consider that another life form would have an interest that more land or more territory is good for them. I think it's a shallow idea.

I don't think there, I think of it more like, you know, when I think of heaven, those considerations are not. I think of it more like, you know, when I think of heaven, those considerations are not. And in anyone's mind, heart, or intent in heaven that I think of, you know, so another civilization, these things, I don't, I mean, I, I hope that we would just see and learn that would be the natural side of welcoming. It wouldn't be a primate response to, no, I have fire and you're coming over trying to put it out or I have food and you're trying to steal my food. I don't think it would be,

I think it's a shallow thought to think that, it's gonna be about ownership and we'd be trespassing. I think it would be, I don't think they're, what have a sense of borders as we do. I just hope we humans are smart enough to detect and to see aliens. Because of how different they are, we often have a very narrow definition

of what is intelligence. It's very possible that trees are extremely intelligent if we kind of zoom out at a different time scale or different like just look at stuff and from a bigger perspective that that's outside of being so human-centric. It's great. Quote that someone told me this ashroth is just told me this. How accurate is or not. Someone else can argue the validity of what I'm saying or not, but I thought it really was a perspective grabber for me. Look, see, the universe is created at midnight. Humans came around at 11.59 in 36 seconds. I love the melodies that put that frame, like that make, oh oh yeah the pale blue dot there it is that perspective

Something so relaxing and empowering about that At the same time and humbling But confidence boosting You know lous forgiveness lous ambition I just love the perspective of that that picture to picture it that way in our timeline. Do you hope humans become a multiple-thera species as we're trying to do as a space sex, as pushing forward, traveling out to Mars, potentially colonizing Mars, colonizing other planets?

as Mars, colonizing other planets. Yeah. I'm, yeah, go, I love the ambition of it. I love the pioneering nature of it. I love the extension of what we consider is our backyard becoming more four dimensional like that. Not at the expense of, we still got stuff to take care of, we got gardens to tend right here. And sure as hell not to go, not to quit on us to go, oh, let's get out here because this didn't really work in. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, we got a tie. We're still supposed to pay here.

But don't that's part of this pressure testing us as a civilization to species. Whether you call that restoration order or whether you call that, let's figure out how to adapt best we can. No, not the expense of quitting here on earth. But let a few, a few select folks explore. Yeah. Because that's like, guys, go for it. Please. One of the coolest things that we humans do is kind of embodies the human spirit, reach out into the unknown. But it's hard. I mean, as interstellar shows and so on. It's, yeah, it's well, and Elon talks about it. It's not going to be a weekend daisy trip. I mean, he's just speculating how hard it could be much harder in different ways that he doesn't understand yet. Yeah. Well, that, you know, that dance between the impossible and the inevitable, that's definitely

there with what SpaceX is doing, with all the folks who are trying to become a multi-printhian species are doing. It's really hard. It's like, build rockets that fight off gravity at a cost-effective way is really hard. SpaceX is close to being bankrupt several times. It's just hard. But it's also inspiring to some people are just crazy enough bold enough to keep trying. Yeah. What advice would you give to young folks?

What advice would I give? In high school and college that are thinking of how to make a their way in this world. If you haven't already, can you, can you define what you have an innate ability for and match that with what you're willing to hustle to get? Sometimes we have an innate ability, but we don't want to work for it. We take it for granted. And we end up doing something that may work. We pay the bills, make it a spy day today,

but we don't really like it. We have trouble finding a way to enjoy it. Definitely don't love it. And then sometimes we don't know what our innate ability is and we're hustling and working our tail off and breaking the sweat to do something that we really aren't that good at on an innate level. And that's a good challenge. And you can work and become good at something that you don't have an innate ability for.

But if you can match those two, what do you have an innate ability? Because we have an innate ability to do. When we do that well, we do kind of enjoy it. Yeah. And one of the things that requires us to kind of be really honest with yourself at what your innate ability is, because oftentimes there's a lot of noise when you're growing up, people telling you what you're good at and not good at, like really, you have to look at yourself, listen to yourself, that inner, like a deep, rigorous self-analysis of what am I

actually good at? Not what I hope to be good at, but what I'm actually good at, right? And then if you look at that and you can define those two, hopefully, you can activate it in a way where there's a demand for what you supply. You found love with Camila Elvis, Makana Hay. What advice would you give to people on how to do just that? How to find love? This is a wonderful subject. I've been discussing it since we were getting a time ahead of me. Love it. So I could tell you what things I've kind of learned and I'm

still learning. You know, love is one of those mystical successes. It doesn't make sense. It... You know, when I was... Before I met Camilla, I had had... I was coming on to my late 30s. As much as I'm not a person that is guided by timeline, I was... My life had not really added up to what I thought it was going to be relationship-wise. I thought about that time I met the woman, I loved Mary and started family and that hadn't

happened. And I did find myself doing that thing I was doing at the Amazon, looking around the corner. Any perspective, possible female I met that I was attracted to, I was like, maybe this is the one. I make the joke, but it's true. I get every red light. I'm like checking out who's next to me

in produce section, in supermarket. I'm like, chose in produce section. You know, it's like looking. When you're in that zone, you can also be a little intrusive. You can trespass on people's, you can get outside of yourself. You can be overly impressed and not as involved and have your own constitution and sit back. Therefore, if you're outside of yourself, you're less attractive to your possible mate. I've got a series of dreams that are written about, but I had it one then that was very spiritual. That was me as a radio, your 88 year old bachelor

that never got married, and it was a beautiful dream. Where on paper, I thought that should be a nightmare. It wasn't what that dream did from me. It was allowed me to go, you may not find the woman for you and get married. Not a life with her. That may not be. And for the first time in my life, I was okay with that. Not more than intellectually, spiritually, I was grounded. I was like, okay. Then I'm moving through the world, and on this particular night, as myself, not intruding,

I was inviting. I did see her move across the room and did not say, who is that? I said, what is that? And then did move to call her across the room. So I did invite, but I was not outside of myself. And I was able to be myself with her, what my eyes saw, everything that she turned out to be when

the lens got zoomed in more details got known and we began to talk and got more intimate and closer together and spend more time became true and then some. But not every single thing that I imagined when I saw her move across the room turned out to be true and then some. Just the image. to be true and then some. Just the image. We found a, had a moral, similar, moral bottom line about life, each other, how we treat ourselves, what we respect, what our own constitution to our, we had similar perspectives on raising children, which is very important to me and her. And then we just enjoyed each other's company. And we laughed together and we supported each other and we promoted more of each other and we lit each other's fire.

And if one was rolling we kept this you go go go again take the next shot more more more more this was a big you to get excited for each other's success yes yes to be able I think it's very important we all have jealousy I get it but it's very important. We all have jealousy. I get it, but it's very important to be able, if you can, be happy for your lover when they succeed or are succeeding or are across the room with the party laughing with the stranger to be happy or them when it has nothing to do with you. She was, I would be away.

She would, the questions in the talk, she was happy for me about, I was excited about my day and my day that nothing would do with her. She was there. And I found myself not telling myself to be happy for her, but being really, really happy for her when she would tell me about something that happened that day or and as much as I went through my head, oh, I'd have been great if I would have been there. I was like, no, I don't want to trespass on that.

That you had that independent of me. Bravo. That's a choice to make not to let you give any time to the jealousy to the very natural jealousy that we humans have. It sure doesn't have any, I don't see the residuals in it. True. I've got it, I've had it, and I have it. I just don't, you know, I haven't seen where it has any payback. I got to ask you the biggest possible question. What's the meaning of this whole thing? What's the meaning of life?

Matthew McCoday. Why? Why are we here? I don't know why. We're here. I prescribe to We're here. I prescribe to any religious sense, the restoration order. We have to restore order and religious sense. I really I purchased that and love that incentive and love that that view. But I don't really know why we're here, but I do know to go back to the front. We are here. That part's inevitable. So now let's flip the script and go to the why not. Just keep living. What are we doing? The base of everything, Eric, and we can argue at the base of it. I can come up with this.

We'll just keep living, man. I mean, what else are we supposed to do when we don't have any idea what to do? When we know exactly what we want to do. Make it matter. Even when it doesn't matter, that matters. Not for what? I don't know. For the fun of matter, that matters. Not for what? I don't know. For the fun of it, that matters. Yeah, our ability to create meaning and beauty in the mundane, in the absurd.

It's kind of cool. And we share it with each other. Yeah. We're getting excited. Yeah. And we create some pretty cool stuff along the way. I mean, I... I say I'm confident enough that I might be arrogant, I mean to say, but I do believe

that we're here to each generation have a small ascension. Yeah. Or else... What's it for? And we're not really sure what the ascension is towards. Just kind of, no, no. Just think it's up. I do think it's just up.

I do think that it is definitely arrogant to think that we as a species or generation or people or humanity are going to reach the top of the Ascended staircase and go, Ta-da! I think that's a, I think that is not only false, but I think it's full-hearted and I think it's a recipe for having more angst and even cynicism we talked about and unrest and lack of seeing beauty enjoy

in this life while we're in it. Life's a verb. Live it as best we can. Hopefully, I mean, I don't know sometimes. I'm just, I don't have a grand plan, man. I'm just trying to connect the damn dot. I'm confused, frustrated. I don't know what, I don't feel any gravity or building

or linear to it towards what I'm doing. And I'm just like going, what's that Peterson line for you? They don't believe in having to do what you can to get as far away from hell as possible? Sometimes. It's a great line sometimes. I'm just trying to like, man, just don't sink the ship right now. Just keep your head above water.

Maintain. Just try and hold on. And hopefully give yourself a chance to notice the magic, the mystical. I try to do that. Yeah. Want to get through. Because it's there. I do believe it's all around us all the time. Just are we on a frequency and do we

do we allow ourselves to receive it and see it? We got to tune the radio. Yeah. Because if we look for it too hard, we see false idols. And if we don't look at all, we come call us and miss it all. It's a fun little life we've got. Yeah. I'm a huge fan. I think you're an incredible person.

Thank you for all the everything you've created in this world. Thank you for being a unique human that inspires millions. And thank you for talking today. I was nervous, but you made me feel at home. That was beautiful. I felt at home talking with you as well. I'm sharing that with you. I could go on. Just two Texans.

That's right. Having new jokes. Austin Texas. Here we go. All right. Thank you, Willie. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Matthew McCarty. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description.

And now let me leave you with some words from Matthew McConaughey himself. Don't walk into a place like you want to buy it. Walk in like you own it. Thank you for listening. I hope to see you next time. you