Lex Fridman Podcast - #402 – Michael Malice: Thanksgiving Pirate Special

Episode Date: November 25, 2023

Michael Malice is a political thinker, podcaster, author, and anarchist. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Policygenius: https://www.policygenius.com/ - MasterClass: https://masterclass.com/lexpod to get 15% off - Shopify: https://shopify.com/lex to get $1 per month trial - BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex to get special savings Transcript: https://lexfridman.com/michael-malice-7-transcript EPISODE LINKS: Michael's Twitter: https://twitter.com/michaelmalice Michael's Community: https://malice.locals.com Michael's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/MichaelMaliceofficial Michael's Website: http://michaelmalice.com/about Your Welcome podcast: https://bit.ly/30q8oz1 Jake Michael Singer (sculptor): https://instagram.com/jakemichaelsinger Books: The White Pill: http://whitepillbook.com The Anarchist Handbook: https://amzn.to/3yUb2f0 The New Right: https://amzn.to/34gxLo3 Dear Reader: https://amzn.to/2HPPlHS PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ YouTube Full Episodes: https://youtube.com/lexfridman YouTube Clips: https://youtube.com/lexclips SUPPORT & CONNECT: - Check out the sponsors above, it's the best way to support this podcast - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman OUTLINE: Here's the timestamps for the episode. On some podcast players you should be able to click the timestamp to jump to that time. (00:00) - Introduction (10:15) - Beauty and mantis shrimp (14:43) - Parrots, Pirates, and Monty Python (20:55) - Humor and absurdity (28:16) - Thanksgiving (56:56) - Unboxing the mystery box (1:12:54) - Karl Marx and religion (1:21:11) - Art (1:25:25) - Books (1:38:02) - How to be happy (1:40:12) - Depression (1:41:15) - Fear (1:42:42) - Betrayal

The following is a conversation with Michael Malice, anarchist and author of Dear Reader, the new writer, the anarchist handbook, the white pill, and he is the host of the podcast, You're Welcome. This is a Thanksgiving special of the pirate and ocean-going variety, so once again, let me say thank you for listening today and for being part of this wild journey with me. And now a quick few second mention of each sponsor. Check them out in the description is the best way to support this podcast. We got policy genius for life insurance, masterclass

for learning, Shopify for shopping, better health, for health, and a sleep for naps. Choose wisely, my friends. Also, if you want to work with our amazing team or just get in contact with me, go to lexfreedman.com slash contact. Like the movie, except I'm not an alien allegedly. And now onto the full ad reads, as always, no ads in the middle, I tried to make these things interesting, but if you must skip them, friends, please do check out our sponsors. I enjoy their stuff, maybe you will too. This show is brought to you by Policy Genius, a marketplace for finding and buying insurance. Life insurance makes me think of...

Marcus really is, and the Stoics. I of course think about the Roman Empire many times a day. Marcus Aurelius is one of the great emperors, and also one of the great philosophers that came from the long history of the Roman Empire. A quote from Marcus Aurelius, 12 on the beauty of life, watch the stars, they see yourself running with them. He, like many stoics,

emphasized the importance of living deeply each moment that we get in this too short life and to meditate on the shortness the finiteness of it, on death. The one day that will come a moment when we take our last breath. Thinking about this moment clarifies just what matters. Thinking about life insurance is yet another way for me to think about the fact that this thing ends and you should contemplate the implications of that, the pragmatic and the philosophical.

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There's so many incredible options. Many of which I've watched, many of which I haven't watched but can't wait to watch. For example, one I haven't watched yet that's in my queue is a mathematical thinking by Terence Tau. This is one of the greatest living mathematicians in the world. And him philosophizing about the big picture of mathematics, just incredibly valuable, especially given the fact that he really hasn't done anything like this anywhere else. For me as a person that will always just I can't I can't wait But the problem is there's so many other options. That's the thing I really recommend is to

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I think I have space odyssey shirts and blade runner, all of these have started conversations. People come up to me and it's an efficient and fun entry point into an intense passion-fueled discussion about a particular sci-fi topic or bulk or whatever whatever we're talking about. And of course I have band shirts, famous ones and not so famous ones. I have many Metallica shirts, I have several Iron Maiden shirts and basically every other classic rock band I have a

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episode is also brought to you by BetterHelp. It's about the H-E-L-P help. I of course, every time I have to spell out help, think about cast away at Tom Hanks, who by the way, got in touch with me, and he's considering doing the podcast, which he is one of my favorite actors. He has created some of the most iconic characters ever, some of the most incredible movies ever. I kind of aspire when I grow up, I aspire to be for his gum. But anyway, we all need help. We all struggle, some struggle a lot. And if you're listening to this and you're struggling,

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world. Much of the turmoil, the chaos in my mind, can settle down and be alleviated through a 20 minute nap. I'll sometimes pop a caffeine pill and just take a nap and then I'll wake up in like 20-30 minutes, like incredibly energized and just clear of thinking and all the troubles with which I went into the nap with are somehow gone to a different planet. Maybe every time you fall asleep, you're actually transported into a different universe, where the chaos in your mind has not yet had a chance to materialize. Unlikely, but entirely possible. Anyway, I really, really enjoy.

You can heat it up, cool it down, on each side of the bed separately. Check it out and get special savings when you go to 8sleep.com slash Lex. This is the Lex Freedom of Podcast. To support it, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now, dear friends, here's Michael Malas. The box? Yeah. I'm wondering what's in it. There's something in that box of exquisite beauty, both literally and in what it symbolizes and

Why it is here given the kind of human being you are I'm terrified At will you find beautiful That's a good point you kind of hit me with the curve ball. Yeah, like for me the most beautiful like wildlife Or what I call God's mistakes like wildlife or what I call God's mistakes. Yeah. Because my friend came up with that term where she's like, you know, God made these disgusting animals just through in the bottom of the ocean. He's like, I know one's ever going to see this. Yeah, you commented on Twitter about some creature, like a rainbow type creature. The peacock mantis shrimp. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's horrific though. So it has I think eight legs, six arms, two punching

claws or spearing claws depending on the genus, two eyes, two antennae, two ear flaps. I don't know what they do. And it's punch can be as strong as a bullet. And the other type with the spears, divers call them thumb splitters because if you stick your fingernail It'll cut your thumb down to the bone. So I had one as a pet all night I would hear banging on the PVC pipe and I've got to tell you they have the best eyesight of any animal Because they see like seven or ways and when you make eye contact with this thing It's it's just absolutely terrifying But you get the msushi they call them sea centipedes. They're colorful and beautiful. That species is yeah

What was the like having one as a pet? In why did you do it? Well, when you have a species that's that unique and that much of an outlier You know growing up reading these books watching these shows I found this stuff so much more fascinating than like space Which is you know dead so to be able to have this specimen in your house and on this stuff, so much more fascinating than like space, which is dead. So to be able to have this specimen in your house and just observe its behavior is just like an amazing thing. Why'd you get rid of it?

I didn't have, I guess, the right minerals in the mix. It died. It had a problem molting once. Yeah, they couldn't molte correctly. Uh, you miss it? Think about it. Still. I do think about it, to be honest,

I still have a pair of it's punching appendages from when it molded. What pet animal in your life do you miss the most that has been in your life that you think about? I've never had cats or dogs growing up or anything like that, which, you know, I oh God My problem is here we go if I Like something I will go down a rabbit hole

Yeah, so I know if I got one tattoo. I already know my first five are gonna be okay So I can't do it because then once I get those five it's gonna be a hundred and I'm already too old to be the tattoo guy. What would be the first tattoo? My face. I would go on your ass cheeks or what would you put them if it was my face? If I got your face, it would definitely be on my arm right here. You've had multiple faces. Would you put like, I think delts, right? Shoulders, different faces and different shoulders. And then when you flat, yeah, would you get a dictator? If you had to get a dictator, who would you get?

We got the Kim Jong-il, right? Does that write the book on him? Or is it the plug in your book? But I don't think it's lucky. It's just like, I have a personal connection to the opener. This is a conversation. We would be asking why him? And he'd be like, well, I wrote a book about it.

Well, I'd be like, okay, here's what. That would be a bad, oh, no, that's not what happens. Okay. Here's the thing. What happens? When you write a book about North, hey, nice to meet you. What is it you do? I'm an author.

What kind of book is the right? Well, my last book is on North Korea. 90% of the time, 90. They will then start telling me everything they know about North Korea. And it's like, I don't need, this isn't a quiz. And it's a very poorly understood country. I don't expect you to know anything. You're not on the spot.

And half what you're saying is not accurate either. It's fine. How often do they bring up Dennis Rodman? 100%. 100% of the time. Oh, you see, do you know Dennis Rodman? Yeah. But I don't understand what, I guess people feel the need

to like, all right, like now we're talking about this subject. I just got to, you know, drop whatever I can talk about. It's usually a small amount. And there's this thing in the culture, which I hate, that everyone half-david opinion and everything. And it's like, it's okay to be like, yeah, I don't know anything about that. Tell me more, you know, there's lots of things

I don't know anything about. What's your opinion on my bird here? Mr. Parrot. It's a maca. Scarlet maca. What? It is a scarlet maca. Oh, you know birds. Yeah.

And that's actually not life-sized. Are you saying he's not real? I was saying it's not to scale. Okay, but he's real. Are we doing that? Monty Python sketch Everything is a Monty Python. I don't think Monty Python's funny and you don't at all like that explains so much. Does it? What is it explain? What do you think is funny? But you're not answering that question. It's pretty funny Yeah, what what do you think is funny? Having a meta shrimp? No, you think big elboski is funny. Yeah, what do you think is funny? Having a mental shrimp? No.

Do you think Bigelbowski is funny? Oh God, no. Although this is getting worse and worse. To be fair, I only tried to watch Bigelbowski after it's been part of the culture for many years. To the point where every single line has been quoted incessantly by the most annoying frat bros ever. Yeah.

So I kind of have been poisoned to be able to appreciate it. Right. So maybe if I'd seen it when it came out before it became a thing, I would have enjoyed it. I couldn't get through it. Like I couldn't get through 20 minutes. Is that how you feel, boss? And there's lists.

Well, it's so much easier for me to stare at you when you have some glasses on. I didn't think you'd be the one making holocaust jokes today. And here we are. And cut scene. I actually have like no trouble making eye contact with you when you're wearing shades. Yes, because you're a robot. Two copies of myself. Yeah. Oh, you're seeing yourself in them? Cool. I'm having a conversation with myself. It's not your fault, Lex. They made you like this. You were just a good little robot in the St. Petersburg. I could see Mr. Parrot a little bit too.

Well, what do you find funny? Come on, let's, this is an interesting subject. Well, I find my new Python. I find absurdity funny. Yes, I find absurdity funny. I think that's the thing when people come at me, and maybe this is an Eastern European thing. When they're like, how can you find this very dark subject funny? First of all, the humor is that you're making fun of something that's dark.

So it already is absurd. It's completely inappropriate. Second, just psychologically, Joan Rivers said that Winston Churchill said, I don't know if it's true, that when you make people laugh, you give them a little vacation. And I was just thinking about this the other day, how when I die, if I want my funeral to be a roast, it doesn't help me that everyone's sad.

If I brought people happiness or joy in life, whatever, I wanna keep doing that in death. Your sadness doesn't help me. I know you can't help it, but tell stories of how I made you laugh, make fun of me, make me the punching bag, even literally take me out of that coffin and be the,

I don't make me a pinata, I don't care. So I think, and it's, I don't understand why I do understand, but it's sad for me when people are like, you know, this isn't funny, that isn't funny. The way I look at humor is the way, it's like a chef, right? It's pretty easy to make bacon taste good, with some of these really obscure ingredients

to make it palatable, that's take skill. So if you're dealing with a subject that is very emotional or intense and you can make people laugh, then that takes skill and that's the relief for them. Yeah. It's all about timing. Yeah.

Yeah. What's the difference? You want to hear one of my jokes? Is it a pirate joke? Because that's the only kind I accept today. But it doesn't have to be a pirate joke. Oh, this one time. Do you know who Leotamas is?

Yeah. What's there between Leotamas and Hitler? What? Leotamas knows how to finish a race. Very nice. Very nice. Did I just get the gold medal? Good job.

Why does it take pirates forever to get through the alphabet? Why? Because they spent years at sea. Oh, I thought it was going to be an R joke. That's a good one. I like that. When I was in North Korea, one... Oh, you know Dennis Rodman.

It's a callback. By the way, the thing that is very heart breaking with North Korean situation is that they have great sense of humor. It would be a lot easier if these were like robots or drones. They have big personalities, big sense of humor. And that made it much harder to leave and interact with these people because it's, I mean, there's nothing more human and universal than laughter and laughter's free.

You're saying there's humor even amongst the people that have most of their freedoms taken away? You especially, I mean, again, we're from, you know, the Soviet Union, like there's a, I mean, you could do it there's a, I mean, Russian humor is a thing, because it's, there's nothing you can, this, if you can't have food or nice things,

at least you can have joy and make it to the left, I think about it all the time and I think about my guide all the time it's been what 2012 so it's been 11 years since I've been there and she's still there and everyone I've seen is still there. They just recently electrified the border so you can't even even the few people who are escaping can't do it anymore. Well that's interesting that they still have a sense of humor. I attribute the Soviet Union for having that because of the like really deep education system Like you you got to read a lot of literature. Okay, and because of that you get to the kind of Learn about the the cruelty the injustices the Obserty of the world right as long as the writing is not about the current regime

Yeah, but I think if you look at like African Americans, Jewish Americans, gay Americans, they are all disproportionate in terms of attributing to comedy. It's not because these groups have some kind of, you know, magic to them. It's that when you are on the outside looking in, A, you're going to have a different perspective than the people who are in the middle of the bell curve. But also, when you don't have anything to lose, at the very least, you can make each other laugh and find happiness that way. So, you know, that is something that I think is an important thing to recognize. So what do you find funny? What makes you giggle like? And then most joyful of ways. The suffering of others. I mean, there are YouTube videos of like that people falling down.

And they're really funny. There's two kinds of people in this world. Those that laugh at those videos and those that don't. No, and those that are in them. My friend Jesse just told me a great normal Donald joke and this is a good litmus test joke because he says, like, sir group of people lose their minds and a certain group of people just stare at you and he goes, this kind of, and so I'll tell you the joke,

this is normal Donald. Guy walks into a bar and he sees someone at the bar who has a big pumpkin for a head. And the guy's like, dude, what happened to you? He goes, oh, you never leave this. I got one of those genie lamps and I this genie. He's like, well, what happened? He goes, well, the first wish, you know, I wish for $100 million. He's like, yeah, you got to go, yeah, you know, he goes in my bank account. He feels fine. He goes, all right. Well, the second wish I wish to have sex as many beautiful women that I want. He goes to the happen goes, yeah, he goes in my bank account, feels fine. He goes, all right. Well, the second wish I wish to have sex as many beautiful women that I want.

He goes, did that happen? He goes, yeah, it was amazing. He goes, then what? Well, I wish for a giant pumpkin head. Pfft. So there's a certain mindset that will just be staring at the screen. And that is, I mean, there's so many levels

why that's funny at least to me. And I just love that kind of. Well, Norma Dow is like, just, I watch his videos all the time. He's a guy that definitely makes me giggle. And he's one of the people that makes me giggle for reasons I don't quite understand. Did you ever see him with Carrot Top on Conan O'Brien?

No. I'm making fun of Carrot Top. No. He, this is probably the best talk show clip of all time. Herotop on Conan O'Brien. I'm making fun of Herotop. Yeah. He, this is probably the best talk show clip of all time. He's on with Courtney Thorn Smith. She was on Melrose Place and Conan O'Brien's the host and Courtney's talking about how she's gonna be an upcoming movie with Herotop and Conan is like,

oh, what's she gonna be called? And she's like, doesn that have a title yet? And Norman goes, oh, I know what should be called. Box office poison. And there are laughing. And she's like, no, no, no, no. Like the working title is Chairman the Board. And Conan goes, do something with that smart ass.

And Norman goes, yeah, board is spelled B-O-R-E-D. And they all just completely lost it. There's something about him with words spoken out of his mouth with the way he like turns his head and looks at the camera. I think he is one of those rare comedians who you really feel like he's talking you directly. Yeah. He feels like he's winking at you in the audience and he's like, can you can you believe I'm doing this? Like it's like he almost he feels like he's I don't want to say imposter but like he's more a member of the audience than he is a member of the people on the stage. Yeah, he feels like he's, I don't wanna say imposter, but like, he's more a member of the audience

than he is a member of the people on the stage. Yeah, it feels like he's on our side. Yeah, whatever the hell our means. You know, Rosanne got him his first job. Rosanne, you and Herb been hanging out. I got it, oh my God, talk about Thanksgiving. When you are talking to Rosanne Barr and making eye contact with this person,

it is, I can't even describe it. It's just like holy crap Rose Ann Bar is talking to me. She is, I've said this to her face, pathologically funny, like it does not turn off and you're sitting there and you're like holy crap. And when you make her laugh, which is that laugh that's in the theme song of her show, you feel like, okay, I did a mitzvah. I did something good and right in the world that I made Rosanne Bar laugh. And it's also really funny because,

and she's gonna hate this, because I tell her she's adorable, she's in like that, she's little. You think of Rosanne Bar as this like force in nature like a tsunami. She's like five three, I'd say like maybe one 30. And she puts on the sunglasses you think this little Jewish lady you'd never know this is one of the most epic performers of all time. She lives near here now so it's just so much fun talking to her. There was an old satirical magazine in the I think of like

early 2000s called hebe written by Jews. And she dressed up as Hitler for one of the photo shoots and she was baking little men in the oven. I found that in eBay, I won her to sign it to Michael, it should have been you. But she signed it to Michael, you were one smart cookie. And now it hangs love mom, Rosenbar, and I call her mom. And it hangs over my desk

because it's have her like good domestic goddess energy flowing at me. What? What do you find? What else is the normal Donald? No, I guess we find that. My favorite comedian is... We agree on something.

My favorite comedian of all time is Neil Hamburger. So Neil Hamburger, I don't know if I'm brooding the bit, he's a character performed by this guy named Greg Turquington. So he comes out in a texito, big eyeglasses holding three glasses of water, coughing into the mic. And I remember I saw him once in L.A. And the girl ahead of me, the table ahead of me was with her boyfriend, this basic chick, pumpkin spice. She turns to him and she goes, what is this?

And I remember the first time he was on Jimmy Kimmel and he tells one of his jokes and he was like, why does ET like Reese's pieces so much? Well, that's what sperm tastes like in his home planet. And like no one laughs and he goes, I'll come on, guys, I have cancer. And it just cuts to this marine of the audience for this arms crossed.

So if you know what he's doing, it's just absolutely amazing. He opened for Tenacious D once in somewhere, I think in Ireland or the UK, one of those. And they're booing him, because this jokes are often not funny. He's like, hey, where did my whorex wife run off to with that dentist she's shacking up with? I don't know, but when I see her in court next month, Alaska.

So they're booing and he goes, all right, do you guys want me to bring out tenacious D? They're like, yeah, do you want to see your heroes of mind tenacious D? Yeah, come on. Let me hear it. Do you want to see tenacious D? Yeah, it goes all right. If I tell this next joke and you don't boom me, I'll bring out tenacious D and it's like I'm trying to think of one that's not too I'm trying to think of one that's not too... Cell censorship is never good. Okay. He goes, can we agree that George Bush is the worst president in America's ever had?

Everyone claps and goes, which makes it all the stranger that his son, George W. Bush, was in fact the best. I take it back in the Cell Suns and shit. So two people laugh and he goes, oh, that's amazing. I guess I'll do an encore and he did 10 more minutes. It was just just like, I love him so much. It's interesting. Open for Tanesha D. Jack Black. That's a comedic genius of a different kind. Oh, yeah. And he was in one of my favorite movies, Jesus Son. It's this little indie movie. He did a great turn of that. He's really underrated as an actor. He's got a lot of range.

Like I know they kind of get types cast as this kind of one specific type, but he's really, really talented. But also just like the pure joy. Yes, he's clearly having fun. Okay, it is Thanksgiving. So in the tradition, following tradition, what are you thankful for, Michael?

I got a world. Do you have a list too? No, not really. Really? It's up in here. Oh, I mean, but you have several things you're thankful for. Yes, you're okay. Yes.

One of the things I, my list comes from the heart. I don't have to write anything down. Well, I don't have a ring down. Okay. One of the things that I'm most thankful for, this is a common answer, but I can back it up, is my family because my nephew Lucas is now six years old and he when kids have a sense of humor, it's like just miraculous.

So he stole my sister's phone, his mom figured out that grandma is listed as mom in the phone and he calls her up and he's like, Michael's in the hospital. He's really sick. He didn't want to tell you. And she's freaking out. He goes, prank. So I took him, Dinesh D'Souza just released a movie called Police State, which was actually

really good. Highly recommended. I was surprised how much I liked it there because he wasn't going Republicans. Good Democrats bad. It was just about authoritarianism. And he had a movie premiere at Mar-a-Lago, some like I gotta bring Lucas to Mar-a-Lago. So Lucas is, I'm like, we're going to the president's house. He's like, oh, the White House.

And I'm like, no, like a former president goes, oh, Abe Lincoln. And I'm like, okay, kid logic, like he's giving logical answers. This is kind of like AI, you have to program it. It's using logic correctly. You should have told him as a president that's second to only Abe Lincoln in terms of accomplishments.

Yeah. Um, he, uh, went up to all the women in their ball gown, you know, evening gowns and he goes, you're so beautiful. Were you born as a girl? So when you have this six-year-old asking you this, it was really, really fun. So that is a great joy to have an FU and I have another one, Zach, who's coming up in age and he's starting to talk now. That is really, really fun. Getting to watch them, you know, find out about the world for the first time. I'm also training them like that he, he wants, he loves being funny and having fun. For your, your audience in a sense.

Yeah, but because you're giggling. I give, you know, we're prank bros. It gives me a high five. My family and this is, you talk about what I find funny. This is things that actually enraged me when When people in this such a wasp thing, don't just go with the joke, or they're like, I don't get it, or they don't understand to just go with it.

I was in the car with my sister when she was like 10, 12, whatever, she's much younger than me. She's like 12 years younger. And there's this species of squid, by the way, which is asymmetric. One of its eyes is very much bigger than the other because it swims horizontally and so one's looking up, one's looking down

with this more light. Shout out, if you wanna learn more about squids, go to octonation.com. Octonation, shout out. Shout out to Warren. There's a lot of fascinating stuff. Octonation on Instagram. Yes.

I was in the car with my sister, she's like 10 or 12. Me as a pirate. I'm sorry for the rude interruptions. I appreciate that account, especially. Yeah, it's a great. Yeah. These jokes and thoughts are coming to me at a like a 10 second delay. So I apologize.

Anyway, you were telling about the symmetrical. All right. All right. So I told my sometimes you help. No, they just get into I was your skin is showing it. It's getting dark. I told my sister I was, your skin is showing it. It's getting dark. I told my sister I go, when you were born, one of your eyes was bigger than the other and

you had to have surgery to fix it. So she turns, she's like, mom, and my mom goes, honey, the important thing is that you're beautiful now. That's all, it's like, what's the big deal? It's just a little surgery. And my sister's like, all right, calls grandma. And grandma goes, she goes, Michael said them all is born one of the eyes. She goes, why is he telling you this now? It's not a big deal. You were the fact that everyone went with this. Oh, I was so impressed. I was like, this is a quality family in this

very specific regard. Yeah. Does your family have a sense of humor? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, Soviet culture. There's like a dark sense of humor. Very much. There's a wordplay. Yeah, yeah, especially the Russian language allows for some like hilarity to it. There's also culture of like poetry and like my dad, my mom too, but they remember a lot of lines from books and poems. So there's just you can do a lot of fascinating references that add to the humor and the richness of the conversation. I feel like that's a very Russian thing. Like at a party or maybe at a bar or something.

I don't know where you'd meet people. These are such great ice. I saw I meant in Russia. I meant these would be such good icebreakers. Right, you go up to someone goes, Hey, do you hear this one? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no I'm here all night. That's what you never leave. Literally. So I feel like that's the thing. Yeah. And that's not a thing in America.

You mean like witty banter? No, meaning you go up to stranger and like that's your ice break. And you tell him this little joke. And since everyone kind of has the same sensibilities, by the way, you guys are chatting. I don't think that's a thing here. Yeah. Here it's more small talk, which drives me crazy.

So what else are you thankful for? Well, what's something you're thankful for? Well, you want to be with family. I'm definitely thankful for family. Okay. Yeah. How, if I may ask, how do they react to you? Like you're sitting down with Elon, you see, you know, Nihahu, you see, you know, with

all these big, with Kanye,, these big names. Are they Expressing that they're proud of you or is it more like why haven't you talked to this person? More Michael Malas, please People's choice. Yeah, yeah, they're very proud. They've been very they're very I mean, but they get argumentative when we just they're just like a regular Human being with whom I'm close and we just argue about stuff. They're not maybe not enough, show them being proud of, but that that part is just the nature of our relationship.

It's also so we appearance. Yeah, I don't talk to my dad. That's one of the reasons, because there's never ever any good job. And at a certain point, it's like, why am I trying to search for approval from someone I'm never getting get it for and from who it wouldn't mean anything at this point anyway? Well, that's interesting. I mean, there's a journey like that for a lot of people with their father, with their mother, like they're always trying to find approval. Right. And that's life. For a lot of people,

yeah, that's, that's a really big part of the human condition. Is that relationship you have with your father with your mother? I don't know. It's a beautiful thing. So it's, well, there has been a rough childhood or a beautiful one. All of it. That's who you are. Like that, the relationship, especially early on in your life with your father, with your mother is like extremely formative. Yeah. So my dad taught me a lot of things at a young age that I'm very, very grateful for. He was, he's extremely intelligent, very flawed and that's fine.

We all are except for me. And it's the kind of things that when you learn things that are right, and this is one of the things I like about being older, is that when I'm a friend's older, much older, much older, much older. When I have friends who are younger, it's very easy for me to keep them from making the mistakes I did. So at least this is something I'm getting out of it,

is that, okay, I can't fix these mistakes, but it just takes me 30 seconds and I can pull you back from making the mistake. So he taught me a lot as a kid. He really encouraged me very much to, he's a very good sense of humor and also very bad in some ways, dad jokes, but also really funny jokes. But also this love of learning, I got that from him and I have got literally right now 98 books on my shelf to read. It's just a life that makes me, I remember I had a friend and she ran it to someone she went to high school with and he stopped you on the train and he's like,

you're not in college, you don't need to read books anymore. And I was just like horrified to hear this. Yeah. Yeah. Boy, don't I know it. I mean, I mean, I you do laugh, but like, I when you got, there's a lot of things I don't understand. When you got heat for like, I want to read the Western classics to me that that might have been like the internet. It's absolute worst. I think there's just a cynical perspective you can take that they're, this is such a simple celebration of a thing that there must be something behind it. I think the internet for good and bad is just skeptical. Like what's behind this? My hero, Albert Camus, and if there's one thing I would want to fight it's cynicism. Yeah.

Because it's such a giving up. It's such everything sucks. This sucks. That sucks. That sucks. Most things suck. Most standard comedians suck. Most movie suck. All podcast suck. But it doesn't matter. Especially yours. Especially mine. It's it's unwatchable. You're welcome. We came in spilling correctly. and spell it correctly. But the stuff that's good is what matters. Who cares if 90% of movies are terrible? Like, there are the ones that change your life, the books, the people, the comedians, the shows,

the music. And even the terrible things have good moments, beautiful moments. Some, not all. Your podcast being an example of not all I've literally just I keep listening for something good Something good in all fairness none of my guests have anything to offer I try yeah, well, I wish you talk a little less in your podcast. It's a little excessive

I only listen for the underwear commercials. She's ThunderRade.com. Probably got Malice. I think you did this, I haven't seen you doing a while, put this kind of commentary on a debate or I think it was with Rand, like an iron Rand debate or something like that. Oh yeah, Malice at the movies. I watched the video and I broke it down. That was really great. I wish you did that more. I haven't done live streaming in a long time. I, it was something I was doing a lot in New York especially during COVID. I feel that, um, I don't know, I'm having, I got so many projects on the plate. Uh, I'm, oh, this is something awesome. Thank you for this is something I'm very, very thankful for and I'm gonna announce it here

Coming out of the closet finally go ahead Who's the lucky guy You're the one in drag He makes me he makes me call him sex freedman. You like it. So I didn't say it. Didn't even apply that. When I, as you probably know, as you know, but as many people watching this, also know,

Harvey P. Carr, who had the comic book series American Splendor, was the subject of the movie American Splendor. He wrote a graphic novel about me in 2006, Cold Eagle and Hubert's, which goes for like $150 on eBay. It's not worth it. Just download it.

And I met Harvey because I wrote this screenplay about this band from the 80s, called Rubber Rodeo. It's a real band. And the keyboardist Gary Leibh, who passed away, Reston P.S. Gary, introduced me to Harvey because he did the animation for the movie. And this script's been in my desk for over 20 years. And I realized, thanks to my buddy Eric Jolai, who has some huge success with his comics, I could just produce this as a graphic novel.

So I've got an artist, we're getting it together, so I'm going to make it happen finally. And it's some of the best writing I've ever done, I'm really proud of the story. It's kind of ironic reading it now, because when you're a writer, obviously, different books, you put different aspects of yourself into them, right? And this story is very, very dark, because basically, they did all the right things and they went nowhere, right? And this story is very, very dark because basically they did all the right things and they went nowhere, right? What I realized was reading it now that all these fears I had over 20 years ago about what if I'm not going to make it, what if you know I'm doing all the hard work and it's still not enough, now it's been disproven because

I can at least pay my rent. You feel you like you've made it So you said you could pay your rent. I feel That to make it is if you can pay or if you don't have to have a boss And you know how I really felt like I made it. This is gonna sound like a joke and it's not This is being an immigrant. I own as you know Margaret thatcher's bookcases. Yes, so to me as an immigrant to have her Bookcases in my house. I've made it. You're right. It's not a joke. It's not there's nothing funny about it at all now Stop the it's serious. Oh Nice. Oh now I'm more nervous

And aroused. So what else do you think before? So we both thank you for family. You I mean, I'm the fact that I can still get it up. What's that? Nothing. Go ahead. I think as an author, to be able to write what you want and have of enough an audience that it covers your living. That's as good as it gets as an author almost. You don't need to be Stephen King or some legend. It's like, you know,

there's lots of standups who aren't like world famous, but they have perfectly good living. They do their gig, they do what they love. I feel very, very blessed. You must be thanking for your career. Yeah, yeah, career-wise, but like, I think the best part about it is just meeting, making friends with people I admire. Okay. Okay. Quite honest, it's just friends. You know, the people that have gotten to know me I hide from the world sometimes, I hit some low points, especially with this new, all the new experiences, and just the people that have been there for me, having given up on me. You know, there's days, and you're sure you've had this also where like I literally don't speak to someone the whole day. And in certain times in my life, it's really, I remember

very vividly, I was in DC in 97. I was in intern, and that summer, DC closes down in the weekends. And I remember those weekends when I got off the phone with the third person, I knew there was no possibility anyone was going to call. And what that felt like, and it was dark and it was bad. So I remember those feelings of loneliness, like a lot. I still feel alone like that sometimes. You don't feel alone? Not anymore.

What's the reason you think? Because I have a lot of people who I care about, who care about me. The thing about moving Austin is I forgot how lonely New York got because it was like one after another. I lost everybody and I certain and then you start losing the places you go to. And then it was just like holy crap. I'm very isolated.

And here in Austin, there's not as much to do, obviously, as in New York, but there's a lot of people here, more people are coming all the time. So if I ever want to like hang out with someone, you know, but there's a lot of people here where people are coming all the time. So, if I ever want to hang out with someone, I've got a long list. And these are people who I've known for a very long time, people who know me quite well so I could be myself, my awful, awful, awful, awful, awful self. And that is something I don't take lightly. I moved to Texas, It's going to succeed. Yeah.

It's just a very, do you know what happened with that? No. I forget the guys in the eight minutes probably for the best. Monday, a Monday, a guy in the Texas legislature introduces a bill to have it on the referendum, to have a referendum for Texas to declare its independence. Tuesday, I'm on Rogan, me and him discuss it. I give it national attention.

It was also really funny because a lot of people, like, these people have been in Texas five minutes, blah, blah. I go to the Texas legislature, meet with the guy, have a nice conversation. Month or two later, unanimous, I think, he gets voted kicked out of Congress because he got an intern drunk and was inappropriate with her. At least it was a girl in this case. But yeah, so it's like, that was my little Texas independence moment.

Oh, it didn't go anywhere. It did not go anywhere. Well, but it's still part of the platform the tech is Republican party Yeah, it's fascinating that hitstree is probably leading with stories like this of failed revolutionaries We celebrate the heroes, but then there's the losers like myself, man, go And we're gonna mark that one as a failure and edit it out and Moving on so thankful. Yeah friendships, right?

But by the way, I want to say just to you I'm thankful in this lonely moments for people who write books. I've been listening to audiobooks a lot reading a lot I really like audiobooks actually and just like I don't know I can just name random person, sir, he plough, he's a historian, I'm reading on the... Wait, I read him. What do you, what do you... I just see he written a book most recently about the Russia Ukraine war. He wrote another one that I read.

Empire's, I think. The Fall of the Soviet Union, something like that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was very, very good. He's great. I used to him as a resource for the White pill. He's objective while still having emotion and feeling to it. Like he has a bias. That's fine. But without, a lot of times when you write a story that involves Putin, people are really ideological. Yeah. They don't really like, they don't write

with a calmness and the clarity and the rigor of history. There's emotion in it. There's almost a virtue signaling. And he doesn't have that even though he is Ukrainian and there's very strong opinions in the matter. Anyway, there's people like that and he does incredible job researching a recent event. Like he says, I was looking at everything that's been written about the Warren Ukraine and realizing, you know, the old Churchill line that historians are the worst

ones to write about current events except everybody else. And so he's like, I'll mind his well, just write about this Warren. He doesn't accept from job summarizing day by day the details of this, this war. Anyway, so I'm just grateful for a guy like that. So for me, there's, I'll name some historians I love. Arthur Herman, Victor Sebastian is probably my favorite. David Petrusia, P-I-E-T-R-U-S-Z-A. When you are a historian, then I try to do this to some degree in the

white pill as far as I could. But yeah, when you take data and you make it read like a novel, this, so you're learning about who we are as people, what had happened, but also it's entertaining and readable. That to me is like the acme of writing. And I have so much admiration. What does acme mean? Top. Okay. Zinath.

Zinath, okay. This is what writers do. They just come up with these incredibly sophisticated words I'm impressed. Well, acme is the best of writing. Acme is also the company in like Bugs Bunny and Wiley Coyote. It's always acme, you know, acme, yeah. Like acme bombs. company and like Bugs Bunny and Wiley Coyote. It's always Acme, you know, Acme, yeah.

Like Acme bombs. When they are that good, it's just, it just leaves me in awe. It's just, it's just, it's just, Ron Schernau is another one. Who? He wrote the Hamilton biography. Oh, nice.

Oh, I have a lot of favorite historians about the whole time period of World War II. Both Shire. People that lived during it, especially, I really like those accounts. Obviously, Solgiann is not a historian, but he's a counselor. Sure. Fascinating. How much do you talk about Solgiann's?

I don't know. Not much, right? Why not? I feel like I wanted to, there's something I could add to him. He is the Michael Malas of the previous century. No, he's talented, charismatic and skilled. So he's not the Michael Malas. Yeah, I did not, I feel like I didn't read Gulag Akapelego for the White Pill.

I feel like I got a lot of it from Ann Applebaum, who's a very controversial figure. Her history books on the Soviet Union, I think, are superb, but she's also accused of being very much a Gneokhan and being a warmonger in contemporary times. I think comparisons between Putin and Stalin, although there is a Van diagram, I think are a bit much because I think it's very hard to claim that, you know, if Putin conquered Ukraine, that there'd be genocide. Yeah. I don't think, I think that's a very hard argument to make.

In these tense times, even the comparisons of what's going on in Israel and either side comparisons to the Holocaust are also troubling in this way. Yes. And I also don't like how that, you know, I got in trouble. There was some literal demon who works at the Atlantic as opposed to regular demon. As opposed to figurative demon. I didn't know they employed demons. They exclusively employed demons at the Atlantic.

And he was giving me crap this a couple of years ago on Twitter because I didn't think it's appropriate to refer to George Soros as a Holocaust survivor. And I'm like, listen, if you want to put him in the same context as Anne Frank, knock yourself out. But I think that's so completely disingenuous and frankly repulsive to me morally, to equivocate between figures like that. And also to claim that anyone who is a billionaire who is including Elon, including Sheldon Adelson, there's no shortage of these people. If you want to use your extreme wealth, use to influence politics, you have to be up for criticism. And to protect people,

Bill Gates, to protect in these people from criticism, just on the base of the identity is, is deranged to me. But also the Holocaust, as a historical event, and the atrocities within it are just singular in history. And so comparing them, what's the utility? Right. You're just basically trying to take this brand, I'm using that term, in a very specific way, and when they say climate denial, no one's denying climate exists. So you're just trying to go off of Holocaust denial. I think it's shameless. And I think it's gross. And it cheapens everything. Yeah.

There's deep, important lessons about the Holocaust. Yes. To me, the lessons are about how extreme you can get and how fast. Yeah. How fast? That's the one. So, you know, people ask, oh, are humans basically good? Are they basically evil?

I always say they're basically animals. And I think people are, most people are almost fundamentally deranged and that there's basically this veneer of the civilization and decency. And when shit hits the fan and we see this over and over, they do things that would have been completely unthinkable even to themselves five years ago. Most people have fundamentally deranged with a veneer of civility.

There's a show called, I think I disagree with that. What's the show called? I'm having Alzheimer's because of the advanced at the edge. The skin care. I think there's a show called, I think you should leave. It's a sketch comedy show. Okay, sorry. It's a sketch comedy show. Okay, sorry.

It's a sketch comedy show. And he captures these great, has hair princess. He captures these great moments of just the, like just a very thin veneer of normalcy and just the craziness that's so frequently lurking underneath. Another great example of this when this is dealing with people who are literally crazy. Have you ever seen the show Horders? So every episode of Horders, there's two usually two people in every episode, but every episode

is the same plot line. Veneer of normalcy, veneer of normalcy, veneer of normalcy, slight expression of concern for blood arrangement. it always follows that exact pattern. Yeah, I don't know. I think the deep ocean of the human mind is good. Like there's a longing to be good to others. I have seen literally no evidence of this. And I know everything's the deep ocean with you people, but like, we meet you people. Fire it. Oh, I don't see it. You, you. things to depotion with you people but like we mean you people pirates oh I

don't see it you you I'm not a semi no that's not nice to say in front of such a large audience you're embarrassing me mr. Parrot Lex you as I'm mr. Parrot you you have he's he's a one of the male troll and barely an intellectual. That's not nice to say. That's not true We talked about this you have to see the good in people you have seen personally, yeah, how quickly and easily it is for human beings to form out groups. Yeah, and to just read others just as I just did a minute ago with the Atlantic, completely have the human race. And that happens constantly and very easily. Humans are tribal

beings. So that does not, I don't see how that's compatible with this essential desire to do good. No, I think it's like in 1984 for the two minutes of hate. There is a part of humans that wants to be tribal, yeah, and wants to direct, get angry and hateful, and then that hate is easy to direct. Yes, by especially people as you, as an anarchist, talk about, there are people in power that direct that anger. But I think if you just look at recent human history, the desire

for good, the communal desire for good outweighs that, I think. Like most of life on earth right now, people are being good to each other. In the most fundamental sense, relative to how nature usually works. I think you're both wrong about people and about nature. So nature is not inherently violent in the sense, like, for example, if anyone has an aquarium, if you look at wildlife, yeah, you're going to have predator prey, but these animals are going to be coexisting and they're going to be ignoring each other for the most part, right? And as for humans, you know, being essentially good, I think humans are essentially, to each other, you said, I think they're essentially civil and amiable, but that's not really

being good. Good, I think is a thing that gets illustrated when you're challenged, when there's difficult situation. Exactly. Yes. I mean, civility is a good starting point. And then when there's a big challenge that comes, people step up on average. I completely agree with you that human beings are capable of such profound goodness that

it kind of makes you extremely emotional. And I certainly think that that's true. But I think that that's more unusual than is the norm. I see beauty everywhere. So do I, but that doesn't mean it's in every person, not in every person, but in most people. I mean, I wish there was a really good way to measure this. My general sense of the world is just there's so much incredible both in terms of economics, in terms of art, in terms of just creation as a whole that's happened over the past century. It feels like the good is outpowering the bad. You just did the perfect segue to the box.

What's in the box? So is it your fragile ego? That's what you stole my joke. You stole my joke. That was the joke I made of you stole my joke. You stole my joke. That was the joke I made of you before we recorded. You stole my joke. No, it didn't. I write all your material, you hack. So as you know, I have a lot of beautiful stuff in my house because I think it's something very important everyone listening. If you accomplish something that is great, some achievement, what I like to do

is buy myself something to remember that moment. Because sometimes when it's hard, you forget you've done great things in your life. You've had accomplishments. Doesn't have to be some amazing factory. It could just be like my first job, where I got a raise or you know what, I, anything. So there's this amazing sculptor named Jake Michael Singer. Singer who's a sculptor.

And I saw a piece of him. I was a singing voice. This is joke. I could go somewhere with this. How is this singing voice? Do you want me to write your joke for you? Yeah, what's the punch line? Hard. That's what she said. So I followed him on Instagram. He followed me back. And he's like, if I made, he says, what's the point of being an artist? If this work I create isn't in the spaces of people I like and admire, he's a big fan of yours. You've given him an hour episodes together, give him joy. So he said, if I get a make Lex a sculpture, will he put on the shelf behind him? And what that reminded me of is when I was a kid, you read Batman comics and there's the Batcave. And the Batcave has all this cool stuff in it. I didn't realize until much later that all

of those things in the Batcave had an origin story. So the giant penny, the dinosaur, there was actually a story where that came from. So if you're a fan of a show, you can spot, oh, this is when this appeared, this is when that appeared, this is when that appeared. So he made you this sculpture. He lives in Turkey and it's called Chance Murmer. And it is, I haven't even seen it yet. It is absolutely beautiful. All right, so you want to do a little unboxing? Yes. Okay. Uh,

Axe or Body spray? All right. Let's do it. Let's unbox. I'm so excited. You like this out of box? You know, uh, that's Steven Seagal movie where there's like a stripper that comes out of the box Under C.H. He is on a boat

You're not an action film guy. No One what does the pirate say when he turns 80? I made I made oh See that's how I know you don't like you I just don't like pirates What your mom does you play any musical instruments? No Neither do you have I've seen your guitar videos. Ha!

Okay. Here's a big piece of wood for you. That's what it feels like just so you know. Oh wow. Yeah! Oh my god! This traveled across the world. This travel across the world. So, here's why his work speaks so much to me.

So, first of all, he's combining so many different references. It's Nike, the goddess of victory, right? It's that, it looks like an angel as well. The Italian futurist, which is my favorite art movement from the early 20th century, they tried to capture motion in 2D or 3D form. Well, Jake, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for creating beautiful things. And I thank you for caring about somebody like me and somebody like Michael. feels a love. That's the thing. When you have something that matters to you in your house and you're having a bad day, you can look at it and remember, you know what I

mean? That spirit of joy. And I actually have a list here. Okay, I got a Laurent ready. You want to hear my rant? Yeah, let's go. One of the things that drives me crazy is when people are special conservatives think that all contemporary art is ugly or abstract or like literally garbage. And there's a lot of that, but so much of the stuff out there in galleries is not only not crazy expensive, but they're trying to sell things for people in their house, and these are young artists,

they're trying to add beauty. I have a list, so if you don't believe me, and you think all contemporary artists, garbage, or terrible, go to the website at any of these places that I'm gonna battle off, look through them, and you're telling me that it's not about creating beauty and joy in things in people's lives. So I don't have any relationship with any of these people.

These are just some galleries I follow on Instagram. Utrecht Gallery, Antler Gallery, Giant Robot 2, Bynart. I know how to pronounce. I'm sorry. B-E-I-N-A-R-T, Spoke Art Gallery, Var Gallery, Milwaukee. I was there. The pieces were not expensive at all. What kind of art are we talking about? Everything painting. Mostly paintings. some sculptures to like this Cory Helford is my favorite one in LA Night gallery vertical gallery of Aunt gallery hive gallery haven gallery and curio art gallery I'm telling you It's not exorbitant. This is not the kind of thing where you have to go to museum and be like

This doesn't make sense to me. You look at it right away. You're like, okay. I know what this is and it's beautiful. It's awesome um, and you're like, okay, I know what this is and it's beautiful, it's awesome. And you're supporting someone who's young and creative, trying to do something and make the world a better place. So I'm a big fan of the contemporary art scene. A lot of it is not great, but even the stuff that's not great is very rarely disgusting or gross. It's just like, okay, I've seen this before or something like that. Okay. So it's like,'s like there's like a standup

We're like I'll pay money for the ticket and someone's like who's an opener It's like I wouldn't pay to see him perform, but he sure still made me laugh that person is still More by far more good than bad. So a lot of this art isn't stuff I would own But it's like okay. I get it. I like it. Well, as the analogy goes, I really like going to open mics actually, because like fun, it sounds absurd to say, but funny isn't the only thing that's beautiful about stand-up comedy. It's the actual... The actual... The, it's, it's going for it.

It's trying to be funny. It's taking the leap, trying the joke, and some of the best stuff is actually funny, but the audience is like three people, two of whom are a drunkard board, and you're still going for it. And that's like, that's the human spirit right there. Rosanne was telling me how Gilbert Godfrey'd go on. It was like three in the morning, and it was like five her and like three other comics in the audience. And like they they all were just Dying like he was just killing them. Who's your favorite comedian? Dave Smith who

And cut scene Favorite comedian was first on normal McDonald if you like put a gun to my head and add to answer really quickly that would be him okay I would also say Uh Louis CK. Oh wow. Yeah. Oh My god, but that's almost like a vanilla answer at this moment in in history because it's like uh The Louis CK is pretty radioactive. He is well. Yeah. He does it the tough topics sure the best Well, yeah, he does it. The tough topics, the best. Mitch Hattberg, the wit of a good one liner.

It's great. I guess that's what Norma Dowell was. Yes. That. What about you? This, I mean, we're so fortunate to be here in Austin because that company mother ship, you go there and like people are just killing it. David Lucas is amazing.

Tyra Vera. Tyra Vera. Tyra Vera probably did the best that I've seen since I've been here in Austin. And I watched him. And I'm like, this guy's even like even bitchier than I am. So I reached out to him. So he's just terrific. David Lucas is another one of buddy of mine. You just said a choice, I think. I'm thinking Dave Landau, excuse me. Yeah. Dave Landau. Joe Magdade. It's true though. It's true. It's true. Dave Lucas. You've ever been to the comedy ownership.

It's a great, but it was a great spot. Where is that? Is that Austin? Austin. Is that where William Nelson is from? I haven't really. Go ahead. Oh, I heard a joke about that the other week. What's the tell the tell a joke again? What's the only thing worse than giving head to Willie Nelson? What if he says, I'm not Willie Nelson. What's that, Mr. Parrot? I know he's not funny. He's better. He thinks he's better on Twitter.

That's not nice to say. Right in front of his face. Just think how he feels. The statue's chance murmur is judging you. Chance. It's called chance murmur. Chance murmur. God, that's so beautiful. That's gorgeous.

This is another reason I hate cynicism. And I talk about this a lot. Even you're Sun Etsy. There are so many small, not huge companies like individual artisans who are creating great stuff and just making it happen and it's really sad for me where people can't see that or if they're like, well how can I be excited about a sculpture when blah blah blah middle east and it's just like you can always look for an excuse to look for joy or you could look for an excuse to look for joy. Yeah, that's using credible. I feel the same way but I won't

I only fans Can't even get that out of my mouth before laughing at my own failed joke. That's what she said. I did oh All right, that might be one of the first. That's what she said from Michael Males. Yeah, I'm gonna count that I don't know what I'm gonna do with mine because I got my own mind's three feet tall Just like your box was much bigger. Yeah, it was giving me an inferiority complex. I think I'm gonna invade Russia That's an Napoleon reference For those in the audience. I don't know if I'm gonna,

I think I'm gonna put out my bedroom as the first day I see when I wake up. Put in the bedroom? Yeah. Do we get through everything we're thankful for? No, I've got lots of things I'm thankful for. What else, friends, family, we said books. I'm thankful for of things I'm thankful for. What else, friends, family? Who said books? I'm thankful for career.

I'm thankful for, I am thankful for, and I know people are gonna lose their minds, and I can hear them flipping out already. I am thankful for social media. I'm thankful for some reasons. First, it is a way for people to make connections that they couldn't have made in years past. That if you got some weird hobby, you can find that other person's weird hobby and you make that connection. It's a great way to stay

in touch permanently for people otherwise you'd lose touch with, you know, whatever venue. And it's also a great way to expose corporate depravity. When you have these organizations that are dishonest, I think the community notes thing on Twitter is the greatest thing ever. That's incredible. I wish they would pay attention to the Michael Mouse account more often. You shouldn't be encouraging anyone to pay attention to my Twitter account. It's a dumpster fire. And I don't mean bridge it.

I mean like literal bridge of fantasy. A bridge of fantasy. But it's amazing. But Bridget by that is amazing. But your place here makes, yes, not here. I wish she did. She's in Georgetown. No, I mean, in this, where we're sitting,

the joke, Michael, is it? Yeah. But I'm just really glad about, it's another way for people who before would have felt very alone. I know it makes some people do feel alone, but for other people, it makes them feel connected. There's been a lot of talk of body anti-semitism recently.

What's your sense about this? Is anti-semitism like any other brand of hate? There's a lot of hate out there. No, I don't think it's like any other brand of hate. Because I don't think racists or transphobes or homophobes or misogynists or xenophobes argue openly or even not so openly for the killing of black Americans, transgender people, gay people, women or immigrants. And it's not only something that's talked about, it's something

that has actually happened, and not just the Holocaust, but just centuries of pogroms. Right? There's this great book that I read many years ago called The Satanization of the Jews, Camille Paglia recommended it, and I read it. And they live in this certain specific kind of antisemitism. And I'm again, I'm not talking about people who are against Israel something I'm talking specifically about Jew hatred. They have this moral calculus that Jews are the only people who are capable of good or evil, and Jews are exclusively capable of evil.

And for example, if you look at the George W. Bush White House, you had W. You had Cheney, kind of Lisa Rice, Colin Powell, Donald Gromsfeld, a lot of these new kind advisors. So if there's 10 people in a room and there's one Jewish person, it's his fault and the rest are Jew controlled. So again, they all exist as a puppet of Jews in this kind of worldview. And it's like that to me, if there were no Jews on earth, it is crazy to say that John Bolton and Liz Cheney and Lindsey Graham wouldn't be pushing for more war. That makes no sense to me.

It's like you blame the Jews when bad things happen, but when a Jewish person doesn't something good, it doesn't really matter. Or just wait, he's gonna do something bad. Well, yeah, that's true. Human beings do good things, and then they do bad things sometimes. But it only counts when that Jewish person

does the bad thing. I wonder what's a way to fight anti-Semitism and fight hate in general. I think the only or the best way, because I thought a lot about this about how did gay Americans go from being universally hated and despised to the point that many people in the 80s went to their graves, those who had AIDS without even telling their parents, because they were so scared, to now Times square is just covered in pride flags. And I think, and this also works for Islamophobia

and some of these other bigotry is what I call the ambassador program. Because as soon as you know someone who is a member of a certain group, it is a lot harder to be bigoted against them. Because instead of this being this out group that's somewhere out there, it's like, wait a minute, I work with this guy. Yeah, he's kind of a jerk.

Maybe he sees things a little differently than me, but this guy is not a horrible human being. So I think the only way to fight any form of bigotry is to be a good example of the counter to these whatever archetype or stereotype is in the culture. Karl Marx wrote that religion is the side of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of a solace condition. It is the opium of the people as the famous phrase goes. Do you think he has a point? No, I hate that quote. I absolutely hate it. I despise this sort of Reddit, internet, atheist activism. For the simple reason that I know many people who in finding faith have become objectively better human beings.

Yeah. I mean, they start living consciously. They take morality seriously. They try, we all fail to be moral good people. So this sneering that these midwits, these marginally intelligent people have towards religious people. Now Now lots of religious people use religion to rationalize their bad behavior or you know sinful or big egos and so on and so forth. That exists, that's true. But to say that it never helps anyone and it's universally the see Marx was talking about a period. I mean defend his quote, when his argument was, you know, the masses are being starved and oppressed, but they're promised, don't worry, you'll have riches in heaven.

So you should kind of let yourself be pushed around now, and this is kind of this BS bargain that the people are being given. So that was, I think, the point he was making. It's not, it certainly doesn't apply nowadays I I've a close to the family in the Midwest. They're good Christian people. I remember very specifically this guy shout out to him Sean Sherrod. I went to college with him

David Lucas and Have you checked out the comedy, Mothershave? Great, great, great. Where is Austin? Well, in Austin. And I, you know, I was 17, 18 freshman year, and I was reading all this criticism of the Bible, and I was like, look, this isn't there, look at this isn't there. And he put his hand on my shoulder,

and he says, Michael, there's nothing you're going to tell me that's going to make me lose my faith. And that was a very self-aware and profound thing to say. As I've gotten older and I have a lot of religious people, there's no part of me that thinks they're wrong or they should be mocked. It's like, it also reminds me of when people sneer at addicts in recovery.

They're like alcoholism and it's a disease, it's a choice. It's like, wait a minute, you don't know what it's like to have your entire life ruined by drugs or alcohol. And if you have to tell yourself, you know, I have this disease in blah, blah, blah, and that keeps you from drinking. And now you're a moral, upstanding person who's reliable and it takes responsibility for their actions. I don't see the harm at all.

So I think this kind of activist atheism is cheap. I don't see the harm at all. So I think this kind of activist atheism is cheap. I don't agree with it whatsoever. And I do not like that quote at all. But otherwise big fan of marks. I mean, it's I think there's a fan of mine every other who was apologies. He had this great quote. he goes, the gate, and this is me talking, he goes, the games people play to feel smarter than others is depressing and annoying. And I think this kind of fedora in an atheism is a good example, because here's the other thing. If you've proven that someone else is stupid, that doesn't mean you're smart. You could both be stupid. So congrats. You prove someone else is stupid. Who cares? Been sneering in all forms. Yes.

General is just not. Great. That's one of the things I block out people on social media instantly. You're not gonna sneer at me in my space. You could sneer me all you want in your space, but I'm not putting up with your crap. I don't know you. My space, great social network.

Is that on, uh, and six that six six street. Hey, well, calm. Gee, do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do of a lady load, one line at a time. Yeah. I recently talked to John Mirshammer. I don't know if you know him at all. So he has this idea about offensive realism. It's a way to analyze the world international relations and the basic idea, now run

it by you and see what you think is that states, nations want to survive. And they tried to do so by maximizing power, military power. And he talks about energy quite a bit in that one of these underlying assumptions of this way of viewing the world is that states are anarchy towards each other. Yes, that's true. And they operate under a lot of uncertainty. States cannot be sure that other states will not use military capabilities against them. Right. They want to survive and they want to use military power to control the uncertainty, to protect themselves.

So I disagree in that regard and I see on your bookshelf, I think the world is a lot closer to brave new world than it is to 1984. And I think it is, if you look at, let's suppose China is influenced in America, right? The influence is far more through soft power than military power. China doesn't threaten America through, you know, we're going to kill you. It's more like their infiltration of universities, TikTok, things of that nature. Maybe this would have worked before the pop culture era, but I think one of the reasons we have this kind of American hegemony isn't just a function of American

military. I think it's much more a function of American pop culture. When you're exporting ideas and culture, it makes other people in other countries feel closer to you and also feel, regardless of as a friend and also to adopt your value, it's a great way to spread propaganda. It seems to correlate though, right? It's interesting. It's an interesting idea. What has more power, the viral spread of ideas

or the power of the military? It seems that the United States is at the top of the world on both. That's true. And so it's hard to disentangle the military. It seems that the United States is at the top of the world on both. That's true. And so it's hard to disentangle the two. Let's look at Europe. American culture is very popular in Europe in many ways, right? Like the best music comes out of Sweden, Swedish indie pop. There's singing in English, even though it's so on and so forth. None of this is a function, maybe it's a function of post-World War II to some extent, but I don't think it's a function of American bases there. I think it's a function of we're exporting our music or TV shows in our movies. Yeah. It's interesting if the battleground will be brave new world, the

battle of ideas. I think it's clearly brave new world. I, I, I, I, it's so much cheaper. And again, this is one of the dark side of social media to use influence than it is to use threats. I don't think, I think COVID is a good example of this. Like so much of the pressure. Yes, there was authoritarianism, but it was the fact that everyone bought into it rightly or wrongly, but the vast majority of the population

was behind all of these things. And that was through persuasion, not because, and because people are begging for it to come back in many cases. So who's funding you? Which intelligence agency? What's that? What's that? This is how you do great viewing. See, he didn't even expect that. Okay. What's that, Mr. Farrett? That was the parrot. You knew it. But you didn't have any documentation, did you? I think Mr. Farrett is threatened by the better wings on chance, remember?

He gets like that when he's turned on. Oh, okay. You can't wait until these all three of us all alone together. It's going to be one hell of a party. Beaks and feathers everywhere and metal. Yeah, those things beautiful. It's ridiculous. You have, you have actually a lot of really cool stuff at your, at your place.

So what fun. What, um, what's the, what's a cool thing that stands out to you, but maybe a recent addition. So I went to the Dallas Museum of Art last year for my birthday, and there was a painting I liked, and I googled it, and I saw the auction for that exact painting, and it was like, I think three grand, which is not cheap, but not something you think you think in a museum I can never force something like this, right? so when I was in

I went to Houston with some friends the side-serves Natalie who made the cake of you cake terrifying my mom dish. Did it yeah, huh? No, it's not the cake that terrified my mom It's you Michael Mel is cutting it off cutting the face off And laughing maniacally Well, Natalie's pregnant. She's gonna have a daughter named Daisy so congrats to Natalie But I was in the museum with them and they was a statue of Thoth who's the Egyptian God whose head is an ibis, it's a birth

of the Longbeak, and Thoth is the god of the moon, god of knowledge, and supposedly he invented writing. So I thought, you know what, I've always loved Ancient Egypt, I know a lot about it, and especially the mythology, it would be really cool as an aspiring author to have an ancient Egyptian thoth statue in my house. Well, it turned out that the Egyptians also killed and mummified ibises and buried them with scribes. And a week after I went to the museum,

there was an auction for an ibis mummy and I have it now in my house still in its bandages overlooking my desk and we all know, it's gonna come to life and pack out my eyes and write with my blood, but that is one of the recent cool additions. Another thing I have, which is like in terms of Holy crap, I've made it,

I have an original Patrick Nagel painting, and if people don't know the name, he's like the 80s artist, he did the grand ran cover, we never see him nail salons. I have a male, which we're very, very rare for him to do. So that's two of my kind of favorites. Yes, what? He only drew women predominantly.

I have one where we drew a male. Like a guy in a like a gene ad or something. And now I'm looking forward to. So Jake made me a three foot tall sculpture called Future Murmer, which I am ecstatic to get. Does remind yourself, home, how many fascinating, beautiful people that are out there. And just the victory and holiness and technology and speed, and how many people have fought so that I could do what I do.

Yeah, that's another thing I'm grateful for. Just like the 100 billion or so people that came before us. Yeah. And also the trillions of life forms that came before that. Oh God, I've gone down this... this trilobite rabbit hole, buying fossils, because as a kid, I thought trial bites were the coolest thing, and I've got like 15.

Yeah. And what's interesting is when you buy trial bite fossils on eBay, their listed is used. Because it's got to be newer used than according to the programming, so it's used, yeah. Yeah. But just think it about all that history. Just all the life forms that came before.

It seems like a really special thing we have gone on earth here. Oh, yeah, I think that's very fair to say. But I also think this kind of is like live life to the fullest. You know, Kamu talked about living to the point of tears. Yeah. Especially on behalf people who didn't have that privilege. So I dedicated the white pill to my parents who got me out of the Soviet Union and all

the kids who never could. And it's like when I die, I want everyone else to not know they're obviously going to be happy. But yeah, I'm not here. Enjoy what you live for me, because I can't have that privilege anymore What do you think about Kamuza writer? I don't like his novels at all. Oh, you don't at all. Yeah, you've talked shit about the plague to me Yeah, I didn't I think the book is pointless Fasting because all you need to do is read the synopsis and then you get it like I don't think his book is not true for most books

No, I mean like you could take I don't know I just don't think his book is not true for most books. No. I mean, like, you could take, I don't know, I just don't agree at all. There, I mean, it's it's catcher in the eye. There's a lot of books that are seem trivial. I don't think it seems trivial, but I think animal form animal form is a methodical step by step examination of a transformation from one thing to another. The plague is not that. It's a methodical examination of what a society is like under the plague, which could symbolize a lot of things including the plague directly or Nazi Germany or ideological movements or it's similar to animal farm, maybe not as effective in terms of using this kind of symbology.

I think animal farm has a narrative and I'm gonna spoil the whole plague, the book the plague. Okay. There's a town I believe in, I'm on. A plague descends, people struggle to deal with it. And the plague vanishes as quickly as it came, the end. Yeah, but there's the victims the the people that take advantage of it There's the doctor that emits the absurdity and evil of the plague is fighting to do good

Nothing for me. That's nothing. Okay. Well, I guess we'll animal farm. There's pigs there's animals that farm And they the humans are abusing them and The animals overthrow the humans are abusing them. And then the animals overthrow the humans. But then the pigs become just like the humans. The lesson kids is that power corrupts no matter whether you walk on four or on two. I thought the lesson was that pigs are the most human-like animals in the farm. I thought the lesson was that pigs are the most human like animals in the farm. I thought the lesson was that there's no sugar,

candy mountain. That's right. You've interviewed a lot of people. Yeah. What have you learned about getting to the soul of a person, the soul of an idea from interviewing? Just how to do a good interview. First of all, I'm not interviewing just random people. I'm interviewing people who are

accomplished. It's not a random group. That's self-selecting for something different. But I think that people love to, and this is very understandable, love to feel seen. So if you're someone who's done something, even if you're like the best getting a big breeder in America, to have someone interested in your work and ask, and listen to if you're someone who's done something, even if you're like the best getting a big reader in America to have someone interested in your work and listen to what you're saying, because I remember every book I've written, you know, I have friends and I wouldn't stop talking about, you know, the person I'm writing with or, you know, the North Korea, and a certain point, I'm sure they're like, I don't care if there's any more, but like it takes over your brain, you know what I mean?

So if you have someone who has an interest or a hobby, I'm sure they're like, I don't care if there's any more, but it takes over your brain. You know what I mean? So if you are someone who has an interest or a hobby, I'm sure some extent maybe your friends or family are sick of talking about it or you don't want to talk about with them, you want to have that's the private life where you can just be yourself. So I try to, and this comes from my co-authoring background, when I'm talking to people to ask the questions that they haven't heard before. There's a possibility that this actor, a huge fan of, is gonna be on my show. I don't want to spoil everything. And he's got a very specific role that he's known for. And I know I'm gonna, I'm like, okay, I know it's gonna be annoying for you talking about this one role. But my goal is to ask questions that you have aren't sick of answering.

I'm having been asked porn star or not a porn star. That joke failed also. Edit out. What do you know about breeding guinea pigs? You mentioned it. I'd love to hear. I don't know anything. I'd love to hear more about it. This is I always use this as an example. I said there's there's you meet someone a party who breeds guinea pigs, right?

There's two approaches either Your weird get it okay or sit down and tell me everything. Yeah, and I'm Very much and all the people I like are the second group When you meet someone who's doing something unusual and are passionate about it and you know, are good at it, like that to me is the mother load. Yeah, that to me also is the thing I enjoy the most. It's like people that are passionate about it. Who do you guys hate?

Do you guys hate the hamster people? Do you hate the rabbit people? There's gotta be someone that you guys look down on. Because like the marine aquarium people look down the freshwater aquarium people. Yeah. And then yes, there's always going to be a hierarchy. This is where the left anarchists and I disagree because they think you can have gallotarianism. There's going to be a hierarchy. Hierarchy is emerged. Yes.

There's no anarchy in the guinea pig world. No, it's just a different kind of energy. Somebody's always breeding somebody else. Yes. And looking always breeding somebody else. Yes. And looking down on the others. If someone's the other, yeah, whether it's the hamster people, the rat people, and everybody's breeding. Yeah.

By the way, are you an archaic capitalist? What kind of word flavor of anarchist are you? I'm an anarchist without adjectives. I like them all. The black flag comes in many different. All right. All right. You're quoting you. You have no understanding. It was as a beautiful line in the book. Thank you. I think the anarcho-capitalist don't give the left anarchist enough credit, especially for their courage. And I do whatever

I can in my power to talk about people like Emma Goldman whenever possible. Do you still think that are some people better than others? Is a good litmus test? Yes, it's worked 100% of the time. And for you, the answer is yes. I never answered. There's two of them. What are you getting a hitchcock up in here? Oh, hey, careful.

I always got your back. What little habits in your life make you happy? Not that you're an Austin. Oh my god. I was prepping for this interview and I imagined this coming up. And I knew that as I explain this, you know how sometimes with someone that tells a story like at first, it's amusing, then it's amusing and concerned. And they're like, holy shit. Like, like it's amusing and concerned, and then you're like holy shit, like where's the exit?

Yeah. I'm getting nervous already. You should. So I'm going to tell you something I've told only a couple of people. This is my absolutely off the charts, autistic approach to shaving. Oh, so I have this insane system. You asked about habits like a redroid. I used to hate shaving. You said there's something called wet shaving. So wet shaving is you get the brush, you get the soap that's in a canister, stirred up,

you paint your face, and then you shave. The thing is, there are dozens of these shaving soap companies. Okay. So I tried a couple of hundred of these soaps because you're testing for scent, you're testing for with the lather thickness and also how smooth the Vashava gives you. I have it down, I'm not making a stuff, I'm not this creative, I haven't down to a cycle of 67 soaps. Yeah, okay. So a cycle. so 67 yeah When I use up one soap That is a slot That I will have to try new ones and I will try new ones in that slot

Until I get one that I like and then that slot is filled So right now I have 67 that I use and I have 86 So right now I have 67 that I use and I have 86 candidates like the candidates. Yeah, in the queue. Do you label them? Do you remember like which one is which? Well, they all have beautiful labels. I mean, these are artisans who are creating these amazing things. So they're, I would encourage everyone to try this hobby.

Who's a guy? It's so much fun. I will give a shout out to the companies that are the best. So the best company in my opinion is company called, they just changed the name because you know what they're originally called. I'm not joking. Yeah. Gruming department. And now it's like, yeah, but it has certain connotations in different. So now he's temporary this guy. Yes, he changed the name to Ion skincare a Iowan. That's the the sense of the most sophisticated, the most diverse, and the the soap is just really high quality.

Another amazing company is Barrister and Man. And if I'm going to tell you to try one, it's called Shesher. He comes out with new ones every month or so. A lot of it's miss, a lot of it's hit. Justher. He comes out with new ones every month or so. A lot of its myths, a lot of its hit, just great, great quality stuff. Another great company is Chiseled Face. They make something called Midnight Stagg, which basically smells like a garage. It's one of my favorite soaps of all time. Yeah, what makes for a good smell for Michael Mouth? I have 67 answers. So someone that can smell something. Some are citrusy, some are industrial, some so garage is more

industrial. It smells like a garage. Yeah. I mean, night stag is supposed to garage. Some are fun because there's smells that smell like other things. For example, there's a scent in my queue called finding Scotty. It smells like Swedish fish. Another great company is Phoenix shaving. And have one called Aloha Smackdown,

Smozaka Wine Punch. They had one called Youllham that they made for me special, Smozaka Ham. They had a ramen one, rock and ramen, Smozaka Papadoodles. So they're a great, and every year they do an advent calendar where you, for 12 days, you have a little sample of a soap and a sample of the aftershave. Nice. So, those are, I'm forgetting someone and I'm feeling angry that I'm doing it, but those are some of the, oh, and Katie's bubbles is great. They're vegan, Adam New Jersey. They've got one called Nihaito grape, it smells like grape soda.

I think those are the biggest names off the top of my head. Well, that list converged down to a small set eventually or no, 67 down to. Well, though, it's down to 67. So it always keeps. Right. So there's a slot. Then, you know what I mean? Like I'll fill that, you know, just saying, oh, so you will forever have the variety of 67. Yes. Huh. You know what? You know how sad my brain is?

When you were telling me this, I was like, I wonder how many soaps are left in my commouses life. Like you can count your life by days, by months, by years, or by soaps. That is depressing. That is so dark. Because each experience of shaving is a little beautiful experience.

Yes, it is. How many do you have left in your life? That's true. I got to tell you there's something else. There's a term called my friend Jackie to what they call touching pan. It's a makeup term. So basically when you use it and you can see the bottom, that's like a big moment. That's a great thing. Yeah, it's like, what's kind of fun? I'm telling you, like people can scoff, it is such a fun. And there's a lot of us online who are into this whole space.

It's really, really fun. When you first discover this, can I curse? Yeah. Fuck you Cole Striker. Cause I was staying in my friend Cole's house in L.A. Yeah. Fuck you, Cole. Fuck you, Cole. Cole is like one of the biggest hipsters I know. He's got the shirts with the Pearl

snaps and everything. And I'm staying in his house because I was doing Rogan. And he goes, oh, have you heard of this wet shaving thing? And he goes, look, this one's perrezo. That's the Italian grandpa's soap, which is also a great one. And I went down this rabbit hole and I'm like, I don't even know how much money I spent on this. And it's all because of him. Oh, but it's like a happy fuck you. Like fuck you, call. Yeah, you know, I love you, call fuck you.

Yeah, it's just, thank you. Yes. That's a good idea for tattoo, fuck you, call. Ha, ha, ha. How do you have advice on how to be happy? Yes. There's a lot of loneliness and sadness in the world. Here I can give a very easy piece of advice that worked a lot for me. Instead of telling yourself that you have these ridiculous standards, tell yourself, I can be better. Right? I don't have

to be a great writer. I can be a better writer. I don't have to be a great podcaster. That will never happen. I could be a better podcaster. I could be a better person. I could be a better at the gym. I could be better with my time. And when you regard things and especially if you have metrics that you can go by, you know, for example, I'll run this many miles a day, things you have control over. If you, especially as males, when you have this chart and the data is telling you you're improving, right away, it's like you have the sense of accomplishment. So I think that is a really great way to, uh, and if something is not working your life, let's suppose you don't have friends, right?

There's the internet. How do people make friends? Try things out. What's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to blow up on your face? Well, you're, you're, you're learned something at least. Don't be afraid of making mistakes. When I was a kid, I was so scared of having things under control,

so like, I would never have to get hit in the face metaphorically. And then I realized, and you realized this as well, everyone who's important gets hit in the face. Look at the president, whoever the president is. It becomes a matter of being strong enough that you could take getting hit in the face. So that is a big important switch in your thinking. Yeah, there's a Bukowski Quattro row down. Sometimes you climb out of bed in the morning and you think I'm not going to make it, but you laugh inside remembering all the times you felt that way. Yeah, yeah. There's a part of me that's like that. There's some days where I feel like this is the worst day of my life and then like shortly after I think, like chuckle at that.

Yes. Just knowing the ups and downs of the brain and the mind and life and all that. Have you ever been depressed? Yeah, of course. I'm more anxious than depressed. I don't really get depressed. Like, yeah, but I've been depressed. Like low points.

Yeah. But I think I distinguished depression between low points, right? Like if things are going bad and you feel bad, that makes sense. But I when I think of depression, I think of someone who feels bad when things aren't bad. Like it's a it's by that to me. It's like almost by definition irrational. Well, yeah, and there's different kinds of I like there's a Exhausted kind of depression where you're not right. It's not so much sad is you're not don't want to do Anything you're you don't want to live you don't want to what's the yeah, what's the point? Yeah

And like an extreme self-critical negativity which I'm also scared of because my brain is generally very self-critical because you're not taking a magnesium Do you take a rectal you're in the mouth? You take it rectally. Okay. But as for the magnesium, you should take it as a pill. Okay. What the way your mom explained it then is way different. What are you most afraid of? I'm trying to think of anything of a fratos.

You know in 1984? I thought, like even just... If I wanted to torture you hypothetically. Well, you do well. They should accomplish. You know what I mean? I mean, in terms of, I'm scared of increasing authoritarianism, but that's not personal. And that's not that's something that I don't think is

as much of an imminent concern as like, let's say, in Canada. Are you scared of death? No. I think I'm scared of death. No. He just accepted it as it's look, I, I honestly feel like if I died tomorrow, I did pretty good with what I had. Like, I think I did things that matter to me. I think I moved the needle on things that matter to me. I think I've been a good friend to the people I care about.

I've saved a couple of lives. So I think it's a very low bar for someone to be able to grow their grave and say, you know, I left the world a better place than I found it. I don't think it's that hard. You ever been betrayed? Oh God, yes, of course, haven't you?

Not as often as I would have predicted. Yeah, the Russian up bringing like, it's like, it's like, specs everyone to be like, just it's a time bomb before the betray. You have been betrayed. Of course, yeah. Yeah. Evalu loyalty. I do. And I also made it a point to not let that betray all color my future interactions and regard that as the universal or the norm. Yeah. I think it's very important. Me too. And also I feel bad. I've gotten

lex enough that I feel bad for the person who betrayed me because it's just like they didn't need to do this. And at some point, if you betray someone, you know. And you know you're not a good person. I believe that. Yeah. Like even if you tell yourself there's something I had to do, you still know you had to do a bad thing to someone who didn't deserve it.

And that's a really hard pill to swallow. In my situation, I still think good thoughts and empathize with the people that have done me wrong. I don't empathize with them, but I sympathize with them. My English is not good enough to know the difference. Empathizing means you're putting yourself on their shoes, sympathizing means you feel bad for them and wish them well. Yeah, I wish them well. Yeah, but I don't put my stuff like it's very hard for me to empathize with someone who betrays someone that they care about. Because that is something it's not that just I think I'm such a great person. It's that I feel guilt very strongly.

So if I did that to someone who trusted me, I would really it would fuck up my head for a long time. Yeah, but maybe they weren't paying. Maybe they were desperate. Maybe back to the wall. They felt that sure. Well, that's a sympathy thing and I really never think. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, these are fascinating things. Yes, I value trust a lot. I know you do Especially because you're such a public both of us. We're in a very public positions You have to be very careful who you surround yourself with sucks. Does it? Well, it sucks because it's hard to I usually just trust everybody. That's okay, that's crazy.

But what's the alternative? To have a filter? Well, I have a filter in terms of who I interact with. Okay. But within the, you know, I see the good in people. But then in the very rare instances that might turn okay Yeah, it just sucks to break my heart. Yeah, I hear you. I completely agree as your heart ever been broken Yes, love

Yes I'm just so relaxed right now good happy Relaxing happy good. This. Relaxing and happy. Good. This is making me really happy. It's so, again, it's beautiful in like eight different levels. I think that's the deepest thing I'm thankful for. It's just how beautiful people are, how beautiful the world is.

I really, and people are gonna laugh, and I welcome it. That's fine. I really sometimes feel like the guy in American beauty, looking at the plastic bag, dancing in the wind, and he's brought to tears because of how much beautiful life is. And a lot of people feel they need to sneer at that scene, and Ricky pits whatever, and I think he's got it exactly right.

I think he does too. Well, in the end, you and I will be both laughing. That's exact and right. And also seeing beauty where others people see garbage. And I'd rather be the person who sees beauty than the person who sees garbage. Yep. Well, when I look at you, I see beauty.

When most people see garbage. And it's really unfair, Mr. Parrot, that you keep saying that. But all jokes aside, man, I'm really grateful for your friendship. And I'm really grateful for you as a person. Thank you so much for talking today. Thank you so much for talking to me throughout all these years. Thank you for being who you are. You are welcome. Thanks for listening to this conversation with Michael Malis. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description. And now,

let me leave you with some words from Andre Guide. Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore. Thank you for listening and hope to see you next time. you