librarypunk - 012 - PORN

Episode Date: May 20, 2021

We’re finally at the porn episode! Bri Watson is here to talk about all things libraries and porn: metadata, collections, web filtering, Mormons, and more! NYT video: https://www.nytimes.com/video/nyregion/100000004108501/x-rated-at-the-library.html?action=click&gtype=vhs&version=vhs-heading&module=vhs&region=title-area&cview=true&t=4 http://homosaurus.org/  http://www.brimwats.com/  Charitable Non Profit | SWAN Vancouver Society | British Columbia AI porn TikTok: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMetpXWce/ 

Welcome to Library Punk. After Dark. I'm Justin. I'm a Skalkan librarian. My pronouns are he-him. I'm Sadie. I'm a systems administrator at a public library. My pronouns are she-her. Are they them? I'm Jay. I'm a metadata

librarian and an academic library. And I use he-him pronouns. I'm Gary. I'm a health sciences librarian and I use she-her pronouns. And I am Bree Watson. I am a PhD student at the University of British Columbia in Seba Tooth, otherwise known it is Vancouver.

And I am interesting equitable cataloging and I also have a former life is a porn historian, which is partially why we are all gathered here today. All our drops are so long. Gathered for the porn. We have the longest drops in podcasting. Yeah, we do. Hey! It's a point episode.

Finally. We're finally getting to do it. Yeah. Oh, yes. I used the new comments. I kind of have like a new segment that I haven't gotten to do before, which is, so it's just acquisitions department. The Howie scream. You have way too much time on your hands for finding.

That's the Howie, not the Wilhelm. Yeah. No, I knew what I was looking for. Yeah. Howie's a good one. Also known as the sound that the Academy makes in Starcraft. original if you play the Terrans. And also one time Wonder Woman shot a gun in the DC animated universe and it made that noise for

some reason. That was just someone decided that was a laser, pew-poo sound. Somebody in the sound department got fired probably. That was a bad bully choice. It's my new solo project. It was mixed into the other sound. Like when you do inappropriate censoring of stuff. Yeah.

Bad folly. It's just an inappropriate folly. That's actually, that's what I would do in porn. Bad foley for porn. Yeah, like a horse is walking on screen and you're just like someone's playing spoons instead. Remember that briefly the tumbler that was just like cats in the background of porn? No, it was just like much like the moments when the cat would like walk in the background. I remember that.

One of my favorites. Oh yeah. Yeah, I remember cats. One of my favorites were they, one of my favorites was when they would take, um, porn and then they would like edit it, like they would draw over it to make it look like other activities. Oh yeah. Like,

or, based on the positions. We're like, guys were like holding their penises, but they were like holding, um, holding like fish instead. Yeah.

Yeah. Or like people cutting off like bits of it for reaction gifts of, of where it's like, oh yeah, when like this thing happened, then it's like obviously of the top half of someone just like getting railed, but the reaction on their face. RIP porn Tumblr.

RIP. Anna Valens did a cool one. You can still see it on Instagram. I mean, you still see it on Tumblr, too. It's just, you know, not tagged and it's all the same gross crap. So, you know, I've blocked, I've continued to block porn. There was one that was, like, continued to block porn bots ever since then, so. There was one that was, like, blackboards in porn.

where they were like showing what was on the blackboard in different points. For like the hot for teacher type stuff. Yeah, yeah, it's like blackboards and porn specifically. I may have made that up. I may have had a dream about that. But it's possible. If you can dream it, it's possible. Has anybody made like a ProQuest porn gift?

Oh, yeah. Because it's like I woke up and someone's like, someone's like ProQuest. And I'm like, oh, who did ProCrest buy? And then. Oh, good, good transition. Turns out. Did Justin pay you? You segued away from Justin and you segued us right back.

Yeah, they got bought by Clarivate. Who cares? It's dumb. They're probably as big as else. Hey, Repworks might go away. No quest. Stop giving them your PhDs. ProCust, Rule 34.

Oh, Arthur came to say hi. He wants to talk about porn, too. Let me type that in. Rule 34 ProQuest. No, just something from the SEC. Arthur, are you old enough to be here right now? Which, you know, they should have been paying more attention this week. Oh, wait, SEC doesn't do antitrust, does it?

Whatever. Anyway, this should have been... Which is the Federal Trade Commission, right? Well, let me be... Well, let me be me, so... Yeah. Well, anyway, that should have been blocked, but whatever. It's...

Let's talk about porn again. Yay. And I didn't know, actually, that... Until I read Bree's article, that we were actually going to get to talk about Tumblr, which is great because three of us have had our brains ruined by Tumblr. And still actively do. Tumblr is when I need to be even more mindless while scrolling than when I'm on Twitter. It's kind of what TikTok is now for me, because it's just TikTok's so unfunny.

It's so weird and cringy. I just watch the cool people who teach me things about movie prop history or do finance. I mostly just look for tortilla recipes and just like different ways to make. I'm sure that there is a niche in there for tortilla TikTok. Oh yeah. Tortilla talk. I am deep in like Mexican TikTok at this point. Somehow I got like stuck into indigenous tech talk and I'm like I'm not even mad about it because it's just like so good.

And it's like indigenous people pretending to be this stereotypes set by people who think they are. And just like it's like layering and on this. Oh God. I'm just like, this is just what TikTok is to me now. Yeah, and they put on the voice whenever they're making a joke about something, why do we always get so extra? And it's like the voice just gets deeper and deeper each time they cut back. I love it.

It's so good. So I did put a link to the porn collections at New York Times video because I was just looking for stuff while I was putting the notes together. And it was actually a pretty good segment. on what libraries do. It was just like, yeah, we decided we needed to start collecting porn in the 70s. So like we would go down to like Times Square. Nobody's are great for porn, by the way.

Like if you're going to collect porn in any time and period, come on 70s all the way. There's a good time to start. That's why I. Epic dong. Everyone. Epic. Epic theme. Everyone should go watch.

Epic block lusters. Circus of books. Debbie does Dallas. Yes. Everyone go watch Circle Books on Netflix right now. It's a documentary about that porn store. Boogie Nights. Yeah.

Well, that's not a porn. 10 out of 10 of bright, shining fucking star. Yeah, but, you know. I'm just going to make Bree cringe as much as possible. The show was pretty good too. What was it? The Deuce. Yes, the deuce.

The Deuce, the HBO show about like Times Square in the 70s. Oh, yeah. because that's where they were talking about going to collect. Yeah, everyone go read Times Square, Red, Times Square Blue. It's so funny. It was so funny when they were going around in the video, like, pointing to, like, the Aldo shoe store, being like, oh, yeah, this is a really spicy store. Like, this is a great theater. They actually used to do, like, noise and rock shows at one of the local porn theaters in Kansas City.

Nice. It's pretty cool. It's a place called The Strand. The former Art House Theater in Champaign Urbana, the art theater. the art theater, rest in peace, used to be a porn theater. Yeah, a lot of places like that. There used to be like a venue in Columbia, Missouri called The Blue Note. And my dad was like, oh, you go see shows at the Blue Note.

When I was in college, that was where you went to see another kind of movie. Oh, oh. Thanks, Dad. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good video that actually, like, explained what libraries do when they're trying to make special collections, which is just like have someone go out every day and do it. You've got to go into the community and start buying stuff. And there was like the best explanation I've seen of like how special collections actually works.

And it was about how they built their porn collection. But yeah, it should work. I mean, yeah. There's there's, I did mention like the porn collection we had when I was in grad school, which was just, we only accepted it because like we were trying to get money out of the guy. And so we just had a bunch of his. like not particularly worth preserving porn collection that was all processed by like the same graduate assistant.

He just, like, that was his whole career was at, at the university was just processing this huge foreign collection that he did. Who's like, it's all crap. That would be kind of funny on our resume. Like, I, you know, cataloged this whole collection. and what kind of collection? Well, it was bad porn, sorry. It sure was a collection.

It was an erection collection. What was that brief? You're making up little. A bad porn of melting sex toys any day because when we are the kins that we had like a collection of sex toys that like, well like early sex toys are made from silo cone that wasn't really supposed to last 60 or 70 years. And when silo cone goes, it like it starts melting and like these wavy things. And then it pulls off the smell.

But you can just like, never forget, like, permanently. Like, stop my nostrils. That's also not good for your archive. I worked in, so unrelated to sex, but I worked in elite, I did some project, worked in a Lee Jeans archive. And they were originally a dry goods mercantile company. And, uh, yeah, there were some containers that still had like 100 year old, um, partially used peanut butter and stuff like that in them.

when you said partially used peanut butter I immediately just recounted a whole story someone told about when they worked as a phone sex line and one of the guys liked to use a jar of peanut butter way to bring it back to porn you stick your dick in it or do you use it yeah yeah yeah yeah you stick a dick in it

you gotta take a little spoonful out first like Andy Warhol just like shoved stuff into boxes and like they're still like unpacking it years later but like he was a notorious hoarder So, like, they'll pull up boxes and they'll probably just peanut butter sandwich in there from, like, I don't know, 70s or whatever. And, like, it's just food. They have this, like, whole bit in the Warhol Museum in Pittsburgh. That's what I thought.

Yeah, where it's, like, just, like, this whole room and they, like, rotate what they have out. But it's just, like, you just see all these boxes and they'll just, like, have random shit out from it. They had, like, some of his perfume bottles out while I was there. And I, like, was into that. So, yeah, it was a time. So, Jay, did you want to explain the whole? homosaurus vocabulary site? Sure.

So for those of you not to know, the homosaurus is an international LGBTQ controlled vocabulary that is meant to not replace, but more complement other controlled vocabularies that libraries might use.

And it also is linked data. So that if you're, you know, putting that into your collections as well and like doing semantic websites, stuff, you know, that vocabulary is meant to handle it. And the scope of the vocabulary is that it is all terms sort of meant to relate to queerness somehow. Sometimes the scope, we're like, well, does this

count? And so we have some back and forth about, you know, does this count or not? Because, you know, what relates to queerness? But there's a bunch of terms in there. Like, I know one thing that Brie is working on right now because Bree's on it too. We both are. Yeah. Um, is like, uh, relationship and like style terms like related to like polyamory. Um, or like I'm actually working on like a slash fiction vocabulary right now. Um, a few of us are working on terms for like erotic body parts. Um, there's this whole like BDSM fetish kink bit of the vocabulary we're working on. But then there's just like stuff just like LGBT families. One of the very first terms in it is like anal sex, because like if you go and look at the list, it's just alphabetical order. So they'll just be like,

you know, standard control vocabulary stuff, even downright like medical, because we have like a medical person on the editorial board. But then you'll have like really fun stuff, like, like, you know, very graphic sex acts. So it kind of ranges the gamut of queerness from like like the very explicit physical stuff to just more broad cultural things. Including one thing we're working on is terms from other cultures, which is a little tricky because we don't want to say that the way that these genders and sexualities operate in these other cultures is exactly like it does here. But we do feel it is important to at least include them.

And we're working on doing that in a better way right now. So stuff that you would, you know, sort of sometimes inappropriate label is like third gender or like, you know, there's a bunch of like two spirit stuff in there as well as, you know, all sorts of other stuff. And like, yeah, so like a lot of libraries have been like putting it alongside their mark records, like in their, like alongside LCSH as like a compliment instead of a replacement. Was there anything I missed, Bree? No, I mean, I'm like, why can't we just replace LCSH with like queer supremacy over everything? Yeah. And oh, and it started out from the, like, what the, what's the, I'm terrible because I have a very bad choice, remember, but like the, in Amsterdam.

Yeah, it was, yeah, it was like basically a gay library and a lesbian archive. And they're like, okay, we need a vocabulary. So they got together in the 60s. Yeah, I've seen the original, like, I got the original, like, vocabulary book for my thesis. Was it in Dutch? No, no, but it was like their vocabulary terms. It was really interesting. And then like that was when the homosaurus,

because originally the homosaurus was like a word doc on like K.R. Roberto's like Google Drive or something for a little bit. And so this is like 2.0 or, you know, it's hosted by them like through the digital transgender archive right now. So that's really fun. So there's a lot of transness happening since like, what is it, like, half of us who work on it are trans people. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, I'm trying to see what words don't have an LCSH link.

And so I just... The favorite example is, like, drag king. They're like, LCS just finally added drag king and drag queen. So now I'm like, I can't drag them for... Because it was just female impersonators for the longest time where they didn't get the nuance that those are like, you know, drag queens can be female impersonators, but not all female impersonators are drag queens.

Yeah. Yeah. So I was looking at yesterday because I have a presentation for RBMS about like why LLCS is awful, which is not hard to present on that. But like, I was like, I need an example. So I did like a search and it took me like two minutes to find like, I think LCS does like idiot savant in and there. And like very offensive native terms as well too.

It's like, not. Yeah. Like Nettenel Ginnin and Violet Fox are doing a lot to improve LCSH. I know Netanel even keeps that up-to-date list of the queer LCSH. Yeah, like where they're trying to actually, you know, they criticize it and they're like, well, let's do something about it. So good for the... But yeah, so the homosaurus is sort of meant to replace terms where appropriate. But like, you know, sometimes it's like a medical term that might be useful actually in a certain context

versus maybe a more accurate in-community term or maybe that has more nuance and those can live side-by-side for something and be fine. So, yeah, I sometimes think L-C-S-H has its place, but it's more just, you know, sometimes how it, the bureaucracy of it that I have qualms with is the word, I think. Yeah. But, yeah, the homosaurus is fun. We also don't do literary warrant. You know, with Library of Congress subject headings, you can't really make a subject heading until there's a book that comes out that requires it, which is why, like, changing the names for people in, like, name authority files is so tricky.

Because they're like, well, until this person publishes under their new name, you know, whatever. So it's a little, you know, I think they're getting better about that. But whereas homosaurus, we're just like, can we imagine? that this would be useful. So there's like a whole slew of words that there might not be any sort of need right now for. But we're like, well, while we're here, you know, filling out this area, we might as well do it even for the things that people aren't asking for. Like, you know, if we're doing the relationship terms, you know, there's a lot of those that like there might not be anything.

Oh, thank you, computer. That yelled at me. Okay. I'm sorry, I got to interrupt. I was going through the terms again to find ones that aren't in Library of Congress subject heading. And I was like, fingering, that won't be in there. And I'm like, huh? There is a linked term to LCSH for fingering.

You've linked to the musical instruments definition of fingering. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was like, as soon as you said fingering, I was like, you see, I was thinking. Yeah, as soon as you said fingering. thinking it was going to be like knitting or lace. Yeah, does it, are those ones that we pick manually or is it like, like, like, like how the Library of Congress ones like, fine, like, oh, here's the WikiData one that matches somehow. I used to have, I used to have a woman

in her 60s yell fingering at me once a week for 12 years. I mean, same, but. Fingering care. Yeah, another fun thing about working on the homosaurus is that like when we have our meetings, we're normally like going over like proposed terms and arguing about them. But it'll be like, you know, now that we're like, you know, working from home right now, it's been not as bad. But I had, like, I've heard stories about like when y'all were working on the like fetish vocabulary. And Billy would be like, you know, at her office and be like, now go look at like anal fistic online. or whatever like in the library catalogers

yeah just like you know a bunch of like in the library I mean where else are you going to do it just be careful with the Crisco don't get it on the books I mentioned that's not vegan yeah but that's what you use

you know that's like you know the old other bars with like Heptops of Crisco yeah you know but you know if we're being like old school here and making jokes about it. You use, you know, Tubbs of Crisco.

That is not civilized. It reminds me of Arkansas Kingby and getting like just the diaries of a fifting club that was in the Philadelphia. A fistic club? And being like, that is a bar I've been to. I've been to the bar they're talking about it. That is where the fistic club used to be. Oh, okay. Have you ever been at the LODB bar?

Um, gosh, I'm trying to think of me. You said it was in Philly? Yep. I've only been to Philly like once. Did you know that Net and Yahoo's from fucking Philly? I saw Allison McRena post about that today. Exactly. Yeah, I saw Allison McRena post about that on Twitter today.

And I was like, oh, shit. I read that and I got off Twitter immediately. I'm like, I need time to process. That surprised me. I'm from Milwaukee. So like, you know, gold in my ears everywhere. So I'm like, yeah, that's no surprise. America's great at producing Israel's most genocidal assholes.

There's another one that was from Philly too. I love that for us. Yeah, I think I learned it as in place Allison did, which was I was watching the newest, well, there's your problem podcast. And they were making some kind of joke about his high school, like local Philly boy starts ethnic cleansing campaign in Palestine. Oh my God. Well, Josh Holly, I know people who went to high school with Josh Holly from Missouri.

They're like, oh yeah, nobody remembers him. Talk about like anti-porn dude. That guy definitely does not do porn. See some sort of senator congress. Yeah, he's a Missouri senator who was like... The insurrectionist dude. Yeah, he was, well, one of them. But like he...

Yeah. He's done some really shitty things. Oh, yeah, no, he's a dick. Not in the good way. Look him up. Yeah, I know. He's a fuck. He's been getting overshadowed by Marjorie Taylor Green.

Well, Holly's a senator and she's a congressperson. That's also. She's a representative. She's a representative. Yeah, that's what I meant. He's a senator. She's a representative. So he technically has a little more power.

Well, he has a longer term and a little more power. a different way. Anyway, I'll shut up about politics. Yeah. Well, speaking of... Let's get back to porn. I was going to say, speaking of politics... I've been revealing.

The most controversial thing happened here is that we have a park board that's elected. That's the really controversial topic right now. The park board is elected and everybody's upset about it. That's it. Poor, poor thing. And that's about it. Wow. Well, I mean, I don't know.

Wait, where are you based right now? I was going to say Alberta's pretty shitty. Ontario's got its shit. The other provinces got their shit. You know, I pay attention to Canadian politics. I get a Victoria radio station, so I get like the nice Canadian advertisement sometimes. It's a different world. Most of the stuff I know about Canada, most of the stuff I know about Canadian politics is either through Morgan M. Page, where she talks about like sex.

worker in trans history in Canada. Like is it a Huggers on Davy, that really good documentary? And then also Anthony Olivera on Twitter, who is based in Toronto. And like we'll frequently walk around to be like, and this is where they filmed this Hannibal scene. Anyway, thank you, Anthony. So. Yeah. A lot of films are made in Toronto.

I went to two of the abandoned subway stations where they film a lot of subway stations. And then most TV shows are in. Vancouver right No they use Toronto as well too but they do some Vancouver Yeah I know Hannibal used Toronto a lot Because like Hannibal's like office exterior

Is somewhere in Toronto Just an office exterior Well it's very classical Grecian looking Yeah well there's a lot of Georgian English architecture because like they pass it off As the East Coast because Toronto has a lot of the similar, similar English influence.

Anyway, I went on a ghost architectural tour of Toronto a few years ago. It was tope. Oh, that sounds fun. Yeah. Well, I wanted to talk next about the intersection of like libraries in the politics of porn, which is what Breit wrote about. And that is pretty political. I was, as I was reading your article, I was like, wait, I could just write up a summary of all

the crazy fucking people who just have nothing better to do because like I just do this for fun sometimes. So I should get a couple publications out of it. When I was reading it, I was like, why does our podcast always come back to Mormonism inevitably? It's like every single episode. It's like, oh, Mormons again. Always has been. Yeah, I was mentioning in the Discord chat, because I lived in Salt Lake for two years. They have a giant ass billboard on I-80 as you're leaving insult like this says, cosmopolitan is pornography, like all caps. It's very fun.

It's very fun. I mean, the beverage is pretty scandalous. Scandless martini. See my grandma after five of them. He's 92 and she can take her later. But it's Utah, so you can only drink them between like 5 and 10 p.m. like on Saturday and

Sunday. And they pour like real light. Like you can have three of them and still be able to drive. I know because I would get like two martinis at the goth club, area 51 and a pine of PBR and would still be able to drive home and be fine. So when I moved out here, I was like, oh, I don't have a tolerance for liquor anymore because I'm used to Utah pores. And I like went to Boston. I was like, I'm really way too drunk. Well, here's a trick.

Here's a trick. You do it in your own home. Exactly. That's my grandma's trick. Always have some dry white. you always have dry white vermouth at your home because it's really good for making risotto oh that's a good tip yeah no because it's got the the herbs it's a nice little addition to your risono i was thrilled that you talked about the

missouri case because i'm from missouri and uh i know what that state's capable of because uh i grew up well uh when that happened someone was like oh don't make a big deal out of it they've got a handle on it. But having grown up in Missouri, repeatedly seeing what that state was capable of in regards to, you know, the town next to me trying, like getting federal grant funding for their police department to fight got culture. Oh, yeah, they got like, what have we ever done to them? Oh, dude. It's just like anti-sat panic panic. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It was like hanging smoking clothes. It was a post-columbine freak out. Oh. Yeah. So like there's a lot around that. They pin that whole thing on Marilyn Manson.

Yeah. And Limp Biscuit. There's a really great concert footage of Limp Biscuit playing in the parking lot of 7th Heaven in 1997. Oh, it's so good. Good for them. How does it come back to Limp Biscuit every time too? Always does.

Just New Metal and Mormons. That's what our podcast is. Library Punk. A New Metal Mormon podcast. Jesus Christ. So there was that And then there was also like You know Missouri was like the first state to

Pass a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage in 2004 Oh that's fun Yeah the the wording on the ballot measure was actually really confusing So I mean like you know there's things like When I was in high school we wanted to start a gay straight alliance And we even had a sponsor for it but she said I don't want to put you in danger and it's not just your peers Shit

Yeah And this is a public school weird weirdly Utah was the first state to legalize same-sex marriage with federal involvement. Like it wasn't the first state to like have. Yeah. Because they wanted they don't want the federal, they don't want the federal government intervening with marriage because they want to, the fundamentalists want to be allowed to polygamy.

Oh, that wasn't what it was at all. Like no, they were the first one to like have federal involvement in legalizing same. Like where it wasn't just at a state level like the federal government, like there's this whole documentary about it. Well, I read there was like a fundamentalist LGBT like alliance that because the fundamentalist wanted to be able to do polygamy, they aligned with LGBT for marriage freedom. Well, that maybe happened, but that wasn't like why it started.

But yeah. But there was a political power there. Yeah, I was like fucking shocked when I was like, wait, what? Utah? Really? Who fucking do? Don't underestimate the polygamists. No.

Yeah. No, it was always fun to be in Salt Lake. and play my favorite game duplex or former polygamists or favorite polygamous. Yeah, because they would have to have like, you know, separate houses for their

wives. Very fun. Involved in the consensual non-monogamy task force of the APA, which is like we're working on flipping states and cities into like having to legalizing polymorous marriage or probably recognizing

following relationships and legal level. And I just can see like it's going to head to like this weird place where it's going to be like the Mormons are going to fund this, right? Because they have a shit kind of money. But it's also just like, I don't want to, it's lying with the Mormon like on anything ever. So it's like, yeah, sure the government should not be involved in. Well, well, the LBS church has actually been like polygamy is no longer a thing. It's all of the like weird little sex that live out in the.

boonies that do it. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Which I think they're increasingly becoming more interested in sovereignty movements, too.

So, yeah. Fun facts. That tracks, though. I mean, everything I've read. Speaking with the, about LDS funding in Bree's article, there's some talks about, like, how radical feminist groups were kind of laying in bed with LDS and evangelical Christians. they still do yeah well yeah i mean like especially like in the uk the anti-trans movement there is highly funded by american evangelicals and so um and then the fact that every british person is in their

heart of hearts a cop and they just love policing each other you mean a bobby um yeah yeah Abigail thorn called herself the um trans princess of turf island in her coming out video I was like good for you. Should we summarize Bree's article? Yeah. Like me too? Sure. I would love to hear it from you.

Yes. Basically, like, I got interested in, like, how Fasta Susta was going to affect library. And Fossa Susta is like the law that was passed. Which ruined porn on Tumblr and Facebook. Oh, and it ruined a lot of sex workers' rights. Yeah. And I wrote, I think it was for Hack Library School. like an LIS publication when I was like in library school.

Oh, I did too. Yeah, and then I got like on the intellectual free, the ALA OIF office and talks for freedom. Before I realized like, how awful, like, and sometimes toxic the larger organization was, but I did like the blog for them. And I was really enjoying it. I was right about like sex stuff, which is really like the motivation for living. There are some cool people in the OIF. It's just Jamie LaRue's a, you know, I hope you're listening to Jamie. A bootlicker.

Yeah, he's terrible. A scumbag. Yeah, sometimes too far. So anyways, I was just like, I knew about this because I had written a book about pornography. And I had been familiar with, like, how these religious groups have intervened throughout the history of porn and sexuality and Western culture to like both define porn as like this unique thing like without these religious groups defining it is this unique thing it wouldn't really be one of it is today and in really defining it is like against marriage

and against children against sexuality um so because because that and just seeing it happen basically again with i mean the the legalization of porn through the Supreme court was a pretty major a turn, I guess, in history of sexuality. And then the internet and then these groups have really sprung up. Wait, do I have to say, Puk, oh!

Because you said history of sexuality. He hates Foucault. Yeah, sorry, you just said history of sexuality, so I had to... You can probably, you can probably edit that out, though. I like his Pinocticon stuff. No, you don't. You just want to go to horny jail.

I mean, I think we should legalize horny. Yeah, and have full horny community rehabilitation. Exactly. Legalize horny. The name I've ever seen. It's so good. Yeah, it's good. Anyway.

Yeah, I remember Breene and I were talking because it's like I do like, I like, I like Foucah sometimes as a theorist, not as a historian. Like I find the panopticon writing he's done. Like, that's what I mostly like of him. But I remember like you complimented because of like my thesis and my articles. Then I'm like one of the only librarians who's like written on like taxonomy and stuff and getting into theory and not fucking mentioned Foucault. Well, none of them have actually read it.

That's the fun part. They're all like quoting some other person who's quoted it. See, I just quote Derrida. That's what I do. That's what I'm about. Still French, but like good. I love Derrida. No, you got Germans.

It's like, good for like theory. But yeah, he spent most of his life advocating for like the repeal of pedophilia laws. And like, wasn't just like a. average pedophile, which is like an extreme pedophile. I'm like, are you aware of this before you cite him? It's okay if you still cite him. And like he's still important. That's basically why he wrote history of sexuality.

I'm sorry, I just pictured like the scale of pedophile from like your normal pedophile to your extreme pedophile. And I think I just killed Carrie. At the 10 is like a bald French man and a turtleneck. No, it goes from guy, unassuming... Statutory racist. Yeah. And then at the other end, there's a don't tread on me flag.

And that's the spectrum. Treadn't. Please no steppy. No, he'd like, but that's like the central pieces around the three-volume history of sexuality, right? They're like, is like basically Buccoe trying to justify pedophilia. Yeah, no, he is a don't tread on me guy. Yeah, like most people of one have only read the first volume. And of the first volume, they've only read the bit about like the Victorian repression thing and not the rest of it.

No. I actually took a like formation of homosexuality and literature course. Yeah, exactly. I took a formation of. I didn't take a fucking class. I read it myself. Yeah, I took a formation of homosexuality and literature. I didn't pay anyone to teach me that shit.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I took this course. And like we. we still only read from the first bit, but we actually didn't focus on that. We focused on the like punishment part of it and not that you can't have, you know, homo-like you can't have heterosexuality technically without defining like, you know,

when you create homosexuality, you also create heterosexuality, which is an interesting theory. But when he was like, you know, tried to get historical about it. He loved apprenticeships because like he was like, oh, like, he's like real hard on apprenticeships because he's like, yeah, man, fucking petter-assie. like train someone under you and then have sex with them and then we just keep doing it yeah but um but yeah no like we mainly focused on like the confessional eight year olds dude eight year olds yeah the like confessional catholic um punishment stuff and the panopticon we didn't even like focus on the sexuality part really in my like faglet class so anyway so sex group and pico and um yes

So basically the Mormons have a ton of money, like way more money than anybody. They have 10% of a lot of people. They, yeah. And a lot of a mountain. The 10th is pretty. Anti-porn feminists who are still a thing. And then there are this, the whole, like, Reddit subculture that is just like the, the anti-fap Redditors.

Yeah. Is that like, yeah, so proud boy, no faps. Tell us more about that? Like, you know, the proud boys. don't fucking masturbate, right? Yeah. Every time, like, they come up. Every time they come up, I'm just like, y'all know they don't masturbate, right?

Like, I can't get that on my head. And then radfims got into Tumblr, like, really early. And so that's where a lot of the, like, more like contemporary, like queer anti-sexuality rhetoric is coming from is because people who were reared on Tumblr, like the turfs knew how to word it in a way that, like, oh, well, you want to do the right thing and you don't want to hurt people. Like, they didn't come about it at a hateful way.

And so then you get all of these anti-porn, anti-fetish, anti-sex work, anti-public sex, like, queer people. The no kinket pride kids. Yeah, I was just going to bring that up. They bring it in the terms of consent. They use the language of consent quite a bit. And they use the terms of, like, abuse of women in porn. pornography and like that just sort of like a vague degradation which reminds me of like you know when they would like chew up gum and be like this is you if you have sex before marriage you're chewed up gum like that kind of has that kind of feeling and so yeah i've been watching twitter like people argue on twitter with like teenagers and just being like look you're a dumb teenager you can be dumb but like uh i'm telling you that there's a reason there's can't get pride and it's just like don't be dumb at pride you can be dumb but just don't be dumb in pride just don't be dumb in pride just don't be dumb in pride just like there's can't get fried and that's the whole it's okay be open like i don't see them yelling at like

about fulsome it's okay to let something unlock something inside you or like the the people got mad about that woman walking her her sub on a leash in the grocery store i'm like what harm were they doing well they break my consent no they one it's in public you you know you can be uncomfortable in public too they weren't doing anything sexual it reminds me that bit in secretary where she's like at the desk and her like the dude who's in love with her but who isn't the hot lawyer um is like james spader's not hot i'm sorry oh god i'm so into james spader um what is wrong like what is wrong with everyone who thinks that james spader's hot i don't get it can someone did a horny car fucking movie what do you expect from me um like i i've read the

horny car fucking book but um it's not horny sorry anyway i this is what's wrong with me. But yeah, where she's like, does this look sexual to you? But, yeah, I know the language of consent, especially like, you know, with libraries to bring it back on to the actual topic of this podcast. Like, I hear the thing about, like, you know, against watching porn and libraries is like, well, people around you aren't consenting to that. And I'm like, well, if you don't bug them. Yeah. It's usually someone.

Don't whip it out in public, but. Someone who's not minding their own business usually. Like, most of the time, like, if someone is just like blatantly looking at porn in public, they have their back to the wall or something. Like they, most people are considerate. I remember there's a guy, there's a YouTuber who like harasses people like on the bus. And like one time there's a guy sitting in a bus seat by himself. He's like on his phone. He's like scrolling porn hub.

And then the guy is like over him, recording him and being like, you're sick. You're there are children on this train. And the guy's like, fuck off. And he's just like, and the guy keeps screaming at him for like, you know, until it, until a stop. And it was just like, yeah, what was your, you would never have known if you minded your own business. Yeah, I remember when I was at William and Mary as an undergrad, I think it was my junior year. There was this whole hullabaloo because a public patron, because it's a public university, so anyone who's a citizen in the state of Virginia could get a library card there. this older man

got like was watching porn and I don't know if they kicked him out or not but like there was this whole thing on like the William Mary Facebook group and I think someone wrote up about it and all these like students being upset and I was like you know he's just allowed to do that right like you know what happens if you're in a women's studies class and you have to watch porn for your women's

studies class like you know that's a thing that happens so like it felt weird like shaming like this like public shaming of this guy and I don't know if he like was doing it like late my my my boyfriend's like partner got to do porn homework I'm like I wanted to do porn homework yeah yeah I had a human sexuality class we watched some pretty risque stuff yeah so and I was like 16 I was a lot to enroll in that class at the community college. So like, what's the issue? But that kind of goes into web filtering because that's like the next stage of this is like,

well, we need to have web filters on public facing computers. The idea is you have all public facing computers, have a certain level of filtering, and then like children computers might have more filtering. And this will protect the children's. But the companies are making money from the filter. because all the filter companies are owned by these anti-porn Mormon groups. So they're like censoring it and trying and condemning libraries through it because they want to make more money. Yeah.

And especially in an educational context, like it makes no sense for a university to have a internet filter at all. And I worked at a university that did. And I would run into it all the time. And I just was like, that's, you know, whatever. I'll just use a proxy to get around some stuff or whatever. but like it it censored the word I was talking to one of our IT people and I said oh it censors sexism she's like no it doesn't I said oh I also tag the post sex and she goes yeah that'll do it I'm like what if I was talking about like sexing animals or talking about sex which is a legitimate field of study or describing someone's sex like you can just block the word sex on a university campus library if someone needs to be doing research about sexuality I had a student tell me that like at their high school so I used to teach um like first year students about uh we used to talk about like just internet stuff because that was how I would introduce them to information

literacy is just like let's talk about the internet so we were talking about filtering and one of them was telling a story about how they were searching for information about baby chickens they got which are called chicks and so they type like chicks gets blocked in my area yeah chicks gets blocked in a lot of these filters, which I thought was just amazing. Like if you wanted to just do research for your biology class on chicks. And then one time when I was in high school, I just remember I was like trying to find a work of art. Like and just like so many like I was just like looking for Botticelli, right?

Like Italian master. Too many boobs. Too many boobs for the internet filter. Yeah. Could not look up Italian classical art as it turns out in the school internet filter in the year 2005. As somebody who administers these sort of filters, yeah, I've worked with a couple. And even the non-religious ones, like as far as I can tell, they're not owned by religious people because they're tech companies, right? So it seems like there's probably the religious filtering software.

And then there's these tech companies who are buying it up to get that sort of that share of the market. But even digging into it, I'm like, well, do I block this general category? I mean, I can go in and I can block specific websites and stuff, but the content filtering is you just block it by category. So it's like, I can block adult content separate from sexual content, separate from pornography, separate from sexual education, separate from, you know, queer study kind of stuff. But none of these filters I have actually like tried to find, actually tell you how they do that categorization. So, So you're stuck with these companies like Cisco is one that I know they run one called

umbrella that I've worked with, that you click on categories and you don't actually know what's going to get blocked until it gets blocked or until you go looking at it. And I went digging one time to make sure that, you know, queer stuff wasn't getting blocked by these different categories and went in it. It's just like the weirdest stuff was blocked by the person before me. What was it? Tasteless was one category. right?

I always got that when I tried to go to crack. Exactly. Tasteless. I had a patron actually do have a complaint because they were at like one of those mugshot like websites where you can like look up people's mugshots and stuff and they were like, this is awful because this helps people protect themselves. And in my head, I'm sitting there going like, okay, like, sure, but also like are you just, are you just trying to run people out of your neighborhood because they happen to go to jail? But that's not here or there. But yeah, so like, I don't know how many of these categories actually block legitimate queer stuff. You know, I had one that said actually explicitly called out and said, this will not block sexual education and LGBTQ topics. And I'm like, okay, thanks for that.

But how do I know, you know, as an administrator? How do I don't know. I have to trust these random. Yeah, like what does it match on? How does the algorithm work? Exactly. Exactly. And like, that kind of stuff is completely like uncontextual, contextual. Like, hilariously today, I had two emails, two legitimate emails get blocked because our email filter caught the word fuck and the word sex in the email header, which are just random like characterizations.

Like they're just, it's just random cryptographic stuff. But it popped up in the header and they were blocked in our email filter. because, you know, you get all of these spam that are like, you know, make your sex life better. But now it's blocking a legitimate person's email because a randomization of characters. So there's so much of this that is just out of the hands of libraries. It's astonishing. Yeah. And don't like for a lot of public libraries, they'll like, you know, refuse, like, people won't fund the library if they don't put the filter on. There's this.

That's an IMLS thing. No, it's called E-Rate. Like local boards. It's E-Rate and pretty much public libraries can get 70% of their telecommunications cost reimbursed if they follow SEPA. So we have to have, I just did this certification not that long ago, actually. We have to provide documentation that we have filters applied to our computers to, I forget which federal. branch it is that does this. But we have to provide them documentation that we have filters on our computers.

It has to be filtered. It has to be applied to any computer that is like a children's computer or a teen computer in like the teen and kids areas. And it's optional whether or not you can have it on like the adult area computers, but they have to be able to have the option to filter it. So you can have unfiltered internet in certain parts and still. land in that safe area, but you have to provide the ability to filter on every computer. You can't just say these computers are on filtered, deal with it. You have to give people the

idea, you know, the opportunity to be a Puritan, basically. It's like the user can turn on the filter. Yeah, the way that I've seen it is the user can choose when they sit down, they can choose whether or not they won't filter or unfiltered internet. And basically, if you log in with a card that the birthday is under 18 years of old, under 18 years of age, you don't get that choice. You have to log in as filtered. So, yeah, that's what the back end looks like. Sorry, that's because of the Biden budget was like, they're proposing, like, basically cutting that law and being like, oh, we're trying to cover all libraries telecommunication.

We'll just like just pay. And now there's like this whole lobbying thing because all the filter company is like, no, don't get rid of this. It protects your children, right? So it's like the whole thing going back and forth in like various congressional subcommittees. And who knows, I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure the company is a little because that's the way it happened. And often. But yeah, it's weird because the Biden, Biden, one of the people in Biden administration, which is like, why don't we just pay for all librarian in the internet?

That seems like a good thing. And then it runs into this law where there's like, oh, no, we, we deliberately trying to not pay for certain libraries internet. Yeah. And E-Rate is federal government funding, by the way. I'm hoping that maybe all of the Q&ON stuff has started poking holes publicly in the we must protect the child kind of rhetoric because that's like one of the main sticking points of Q&ON is being like well you care about saving children don't you because if you try to like argue back against them they can be like we do not care about children because like that's it's the same rhetoric they don't actually give a shit. me with that bullshit, my guy. They don't actually give a shit about children, because if they did,

they'd be funding, like, social programs and helping schools and all this other stuff. It's sort of like how a lot of, like, the sex trafficking and like, even like pedophilia laws and stuff, don't actually help children at all. They, like,

they do more harm than good a lot of the time. It's like they're just using this figure of the child that is impossible to argue against most of the time because then you look like you don't care, and that's how you can pass it. I still need to read that Lee Edelman book, like the No Future about the Queer Death Drive,

where it's basically just being, it's just Lee Edelman being like, fuck them kids for a whole book. But yeah, like just this figure of the child is how we get so much of this legislation across when it's not protecting anyone, and they could be funneling that into things that would actually help children.

and they're not. You don't really get the child without porn because the two are at the very like they're they're tied up together because the very first anti it was like the Catholic list of ban prohibited books right those two things were like okay first we're going to say once a child and when a child can assess or not and these are the books that are banned and like so like this children and pornography are just like tied up throughout the entire history of literature and pornography and the child. But if you look in LCC, pornography and children are right next to each other. So you probably, I need to read your book, by the way,

but with like, you know, the social categorization of the child, because I know like even up in the Victorian era, the child as like a thing wasn't like it is today. So was this category of the child as this innocent thing that needs to be protected? Did that actually happen around the same time that the Pope was like porn bad? Or like is that around the same?

The era of childhood like that. So child labor laws were passed in the 1900. Yeah. Early 1900. So that's like when childhood really starts to become a thing. Yeah, yeah. And like teenagedom becomes a thing in the 15th. Yeah. So that's where I can speak on that front. And like childhood really even like even throughout the depression is still kind of a murky concept for people to come around to and even through like like 1940. So I wouldn't say really until the 1950s that childhood truly becomes a remarkable thing in American society essentially. Yeah. This is the idea that going back to the council of Trent is like 1550, right? So like this idea of like in the exact Latin is like books by the glory.

a noble Latin authors should be preserved, but under no account should they be read to children. So like, you can tell us for you. You can have the dirty Latin to the children. But that would refer to like upper class children, though. Like that doesn't refer to like poor children. Those are what? Those are like feudal lord children because anyone of lesser birth is essentially not a child. The word pornography is pornographos, so prostitutes on the walls.

It's literally traced back to when they're. digging up Pompeii and they're digging up all the dirt in Pompeii and they find all these prostitutes on the wall of Ponte and they're like okay we need a word that we can use that the children in the lower class men and women won't know what we're talking about ah pornographos prostitutes on walls so they create this word and then this word which was originally just supposed to be that becomes tied up with like these sexuality books like marquis de sade and fanny hill and like so it becomes like this separate thing is like pornograph So it's not the study of porn.

It's my Beavis and Butthead joke for the day. I love Beavis and Bad Head. Yeah, it seems to Ebenflow, the connection between children and, and also, yeah, it's very class-dependent because, like, Christianity, obviously, it's a lot of anti-sex built into it. Like, early Christians, even if they were married, they would, you know, they were just like abstinence until I die. Well, in the medieval period, you could actually, like, you know, women had to come. Like, they viewed, like, they didn't think conception could happen without a woman orgasming. So if, like, you weren't sexually fulfilled, like, that was grounds for divorce. That's the thing in Judaism, too.

There's actually a lot of good scholarship about sex in the medieval, in medieval England, at least that the medieval period was not as, like, sexless and prudish as people put it out to be. Well, also, a lot of families only own one bed. so like your parents are fucking next to you. Yeah. Like that's the reality. Also, you might not live very long, so who cares? Yeah, they don't. As long as you live past four, you had a good chance of living to 60.

Yeah. It's just like most of died before four. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Your chances of living past four, not good, but if you got there, you're golden. You're golden, basically, yeah. Yeah, but like Grim's fairy tales also was cool with, like, violence but not sexuality. So it's like a contentious back and forth through history.

And even the Victorians were anti-sex, really. It's just like the stereotype we have with the Victorians what comes from the late Victorian era. So it's all like the Victorian's children. Being like, oh, my parents approve about sex, which everybody thinks their parents are proves about it. Victorians did like kinky body piercings and shit. Like I read too many Victorian like romance erotica about the Victorian era

and that authors inevitably will post about all this great research they're doing about how fucking kinky Victorians were. It fucking rules. I heard a clanking under her bustle. And it's her nipple piercings. Yeah, they totally did nipple piercings. She's just like walking down the stairs. You just hear ching, chich chich chich chint.

There's a chain in the middle going up in the night. It must be her clitoral bone. Just hang a cowbell down there. Bessie's coming home I bet you I can find that porn on A-O-3 Like give me a day Not necessary I think we're good

I take care to remove my gloves When smoking my girls pussy I love all the weird Like horny 20s 30s The songs about pussy So good Also trombones I love a good trombone song

A good horny trombone song from the 30s Like So good or just anything May West ever did. She was always horny. God bless her. She was the original Cougar. Yeah, when I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad and better. Love her. Come up and show me sometime. One of the funniest things I've ever fucking seen. I don't really watch drag race that much, but on All Stars 2, Alaska did May West as her like, snatch game thing. She said, why don't you come up and fuck me in the ass sometime? Like, I'd fucking lost. She won.

deservedly. It was great. I love my West. Back to filtering. Something that I saw on TikTok was someone, as part of their graduate work or something, they were training an AI to generate images from 70s porn stills. And so they were trying to teach it to generate porn images. Okay, how big are the bushes? No, hang on. So the image comes out and it's gibberish. It's just like a blur of pink kind of flesh color and then just like random color. It looks like a forest.

It looks like it looks like like gogurt in a forest. It doesn't look like anything. Like Dick Goger in a forest. No, no, no. This is not related to the, it's not related to the Evangelian joke I posted earlier. Wait, what? Look it up.

So, but she uploads it into TikTok. it gets auto-flagged. And she goes, what the fuck? And she goes, wait, I've trained a computer to make something it thinks is porn. And TikTok's filters now think this is porn, even though it clearly isn't. Because it's been a computer generated a gibberish image, but the filter is going to pick it up. The same data set. They must have been on the same, they must have been trained on the same data set or something similar.

I think the data set was custom. Computer! That's my favorite Jordie LaForge line. I don't know Maybe I'll just message them Yeah I need to I need to say this

TikTok That is like Yeah I'll send it to you Like one computers Think are porn Right Have you seen the

Um Deep dream It's um Yes Yes Yeah so it's just like The It's like

I don't know what It's started off It's a Google Google image Neural Net Yeah And it's supposed to

Like Be a computer Trying a dream Right Of course Like It's crawl on the internet

And just like It's Pornho And then like, so, like, it just turns into, like, these faces of dogs and, like, boobs. And that would just be at the computer world with, like, dreaming. Just like, it would be like, boobs, dog face. And that's, that's, that's the internet. I mean, that's, that's the internet.

Dogs and boobs. That's a perfectly normal dream. Man's best friend. Justin's like, yeah, and? Like, sounds, sounds dreamy to me. Justin's revealing himself. That's exactly how my dreams go. No, I have the crazy dreams.

That's true. Yeah, furries. Furies are always good. Yeah. Furry boobs. We should have a furry on the podcast. Yeah. I'm sure there's something about it.

If you're a furry librarian, hit us up. I used to, so I used to work at a fabric store. That was my first job and there was a furry who came in. Like this was, this was pre like normalization of furries too. Not that they're like super normal now, but this was like way before they became anywhere near normal. And like it was a guy who dressed as a fox. and he had our bright red mullet

and wore all denim but wore fox boots and a little tail and he had like a custom license plate that said Foxy won on his like station wagon and come in by like different accessories for his like fox looks yeah like really it was like pretty spectacular to like run into during my like very first ever job as a teenager. I thought he'd better than the person in Keating

New Hampshire who like has a whole batmobile and like dresses up as Batman all the time. And as like his whole house is decorated like the cave. I got to go to Kean. Uh, you don't want to. It's like libertarians and guns. Yeah. That's all this state is. Isn't that where it's all it's all like the whole other end of the state.

I grew up in New Hampshire. So we're not having New Hampshire. Brie gave me the tips when I was moving. That's why I live in Dover is because of Brie. Cute. It was on the Colbert show twice, once for the Pumpkin Festival that got out of hand. And once for the police, they were rolling out there tanks for the Pumpkin Festival that got out of hand. The Pumpkin Festival got so out of hand.

And they were like flipping police cars and they burned the police station down. They rolled out their bear cat tank. Fucking white people. It was a... I say this as a white person. And did bears show up at all? is what I want to know. The Libertarian Bears.

Like sex bears? No, as it's bears. Actual. Like actual animals. The libertarian bears. Yeah. That's my favorite New Hampshire fact. Is the bears.

Yep. There is a bar in Concord, New Hampshire. It's a libertarian bar. It's called Area 21. And you can go, you can pay Bitcoin and stuff, right? That's the most libertarian thing I've ever heard. And then the food you can order there is just bizarre. you can order like a carrot

and it's like $3. It's like they're like these massive like fucking libertarians that have grown in like the woods in New Hampshire like they're not paying income to the like agriculture commission of this day. It's like illegal carrots for $3.00. It's just like massive genetically

modified carrots. I don't think they like made my boyfriend have got to go there. It's got your 21. Yeah, Eric 21. Okay. That's amazing. And you buy like it just like a pound of bacon just like interweaved with each other. And that's all it is.

It's like $18 and just like a pound of baking. Oh my God. Oh, is it Area 23? Maybe they have to keep changing the number so the government won't find out. They keep lowering the number. You're allowing it. You're right. It's every 23.

Okay. I did the search. Oh, that's amazing. Oh, my God. I'm going to text my boyfriend right now. Bree, I have a question for you. I'm ready. And this kind of, Jay, you can pop in on this too.

Feel free. Yes. Because both working on the homosaurus and given the variety of subculture, subgenre terminology that goes into queer culture, how would other cultural groups with similarly, a similar flare for terminology say the metal community undergo such an undertaking like I feel like there could there's a lot of

similar energy between like queer culture and the metal community both in terms of like genre like genre breakdown and there's a paper out of this yeah yeah well I had a friend who suggested this one time he was like you know who has like a lot of like subgenre terminology but like they need to get together it's like the queer community and metal heads like we need like a we need like a meeting of the minds between like the queer community and metalheads because like they are both so good at like subcategorizing like I think like the overlap there is just

incredible for like the subcategorizations and specificities between the two kind of like subcultural groups and there's also this like I think I don't want to misuse this so correct me if I'm wrong there's kind of a queerness to metal culture and a few ways and I know that there are like queer there's a lot of queer metal heads out there too

I mean that metal has its whole aesthetic because fucking Rob Halfer was a leather daddy. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Adam in his package wrote a song called Hats Off to Halford. Like God bless Judas Priest are my dad's favorite band. Like, you know, it's a great. Love him.

Yeah. And like one of the Adam in his package. I can like sing the whole song Hats off to Halford about how Rob Halford came out of the closet and like how that's a good thing for metal. Yeah. Yeah. No. Like he was just like dressing like a leather daddy.

and that's why metal has the aesthetic that it does. Yeah, exactly. So, like, there's a huge, like, I mean, yeah, there's a lot of leather daddy overlap. That's great, too. Leather culture is so good. A lot of hairy dudes. Hell yeah. A lot of bears.

Metal bears. God bless. We got metal bears. Got metal bears. Get me one. Maybe at least just to make the Nazi fucking pricks and slayer a little uncomfortable. Nazi metal fuck off. Yeah.

We need our own song. Yeah. Nazi metal heads. Please fuck off. Yep. So it's the question like how do metalheads start their own linked data vocabulary? Yeah. Yeah. It might not be that hard. There are already so many music librarians out there. Right. So you have a time. When you had a certain like say five, I think that's a good number for a board.

Right. Five, five to eight. Like you mean, you have an uneven number, right? So you can like vote. Right. But yeah. So you get those together and then you just need somebody that knows like linked data, which is becoming more common. Yeah. Cool. Like at least get something, someone who knows how to do like wiki data or like wiki stuff on like that, you know, at least start there. And then metal vocabulary,

but like it's also just like. I feel like there's a lot of. It's like how much is that can get pulled into other vocabulary, other like the music libraries will have use for it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like LCS.A.

Like LC uses, can you, you can use homoaurus and marks. Right. Because like, it could be potentially useful in archives too. Yeah. Like, because more archives are collecting like popular music collections and things like that. And like, especially as like, you know, metal, punk and noise and other, you know, kind of subgenres. I'm thinking a lot about like the Bill Shirk archives at Bowling Green could make use of things like that.

Yeah, that's where I can say being useful. I mean, I know from having worked on a genre vocabulary and having to use. genre terms a lot when I was working like volunteering at the Gerber heart like a music related vocabulary would actually probably get a lot more traction if you specifically make it for genre and form terms because those are not very well fleshed out in the Library of Congress because like sort of defining them as their own thing is kind of relatively new you kind of just used to just use subject headings right yeah but like having that like that's a whole reason why OLAC did the video game genre headings because they tried being like, hey, LC, can we do this? And they kept being like,

well, I forget the reason why Library of Congress was, you know, wishy-washy about it. And so they just made one. And so like, yeah. And I know that there's actually, I think, been a publication on the metadata in Spotify. And I know Scott Carlson has done some stuff with music metadata and Spotify because he made like a bot or something. So like tell your metal friends. Yeah. Like in music librarianship, like the genre stuff with vocabulary is like where it's at. Here's the thing about music librarianship though.

You have to be a music, like a music major with a music degree. Two degrees or three maybe. Yeah. Two to three minimum. Yeah. Yeah. And metalheads are not usually those kinds of people. Well, I mean like you don't.

have to be a music librarian. There are librarians who are metalheads who know these things. Yes. I mean like there's. Or like read that literature because it's out there. I think like making it like making it like a music librarian project is a little limiting in a lot of ways. Yeah. That wasn't what I said.

I know it was. I just sorry. I'm just like I guess I just like tacked onto that a little too hard. Yeah but like the literature is out there. Right. It is what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah. It's so early. It's so new in the scene that like people who aren't music librarians still get involved and like and get ahead of the music librarians in a sense. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think it has a lot of applications for like recorded sound archives and things like that too.

Totally. Yeah. As someone who has done work in recorded sound archives, it's got some application there. Yeah. Seriously, tell your friends to like hit up Scott Carlson. I mean, I'm probably speaking for him and I probably shouldn't. But like he even like interned or something like the Grateful Dead archive or something. I mean, I'm not a deadhead. Yeah, but he's like done a lot of stuff with music metadata and archiving.

We've talked heavily about music stuff before. And I've mentioned things about like, like, he's great. Yeah, he really nice. Yeah, he really. Yeah. Scott's great. He's making me a cutting board. Oh, that's amazing. That looks like the floor of the Black Lodge. Oh, that's fucking sick. Yeah, it's fucking sweet. I'm so excited for it. And the no, no, no, uh, no metadata, no future sticker. I lost mine because it was on the case of my laptop and then I had to get the top part of my laptop replaced RIP. I also lost my like ringing Nathan is a rock. I lost that one too.

Yeah. That's why I can't. So this is why I can't put stickers on things. Yeah. I'm too anxious to put stickers on things because it's like what what happens if I have to replace the thing that I put the sticker on. Yeah. See, that gives me so much anxiety right now. like what happens when you have to replace that device?

And I just, I mean, I could take up the whole lid and put it on my wall like an art piece. Yeah, I recycle my electronics. But I just, you know, it's an expression of your life in that point in time. I can't. I'm not good at that stuff. Just not emotionally able to do that. You could get like little magnet pages and like cut them out and then put that on a magnet. I do put them on my sketchbooks because I hold on to my sketchbooks.

So that works sometimes. I put stickers I don't like on my punching bag just to have someone to put them because I don't want to throw them away. So I just like start covering out my punching bag with stickers that are just like brands have set me or whatever. And I'm like, this is about where human chin is. I'll put it there.

That'll be the chin marker. I mean, think about the Procrest one you can now put in. Oh, yeah. Procrest is like going out of style. What is she mean, though? Like, I'm kind of know. Procrest is like just like a terrible thing to say. Claribate.

It's a fun word. word at least to pronounce. Yeah. It sounds like a pharmaceutical. That's what I like about Clarevitt. Ask your doctor about Clarevary. Yeah. It sounds like it's going to clear my sinus.

What are Clarevite's side effects? Yeah. What are Clarevite's side effects? Like, definitely diarrhea. It's always death. Side effects may include capitalism, planning to take over the entire LIS subsystem. Surveillance culture.

Oligopoly. Yeah, oligopolis. I mean, with this acquisition, we're basically looking at a duopoly in terms of system stuff. Yeah. It's a triopoly, a trioply. Yeah. EBSCO. Elsevere.

In Clarevitt now. Yeah. That's it. That's it. All folks. And Bree mentioned in their article about how all this consolidation is a problem because like EBSCO got challenged on having cornered up. I remember that.

Or just like sex-related stuff in it. Yeah. Utah, like... Utah laws. So what? The legislature decided to block it or... No, it was like, it's like somebody at the local government, but just like just acted out, and like the porn that they found in the...

It was literally like, I think it was like a kink at pride thing. Like, it was just like two people have pride or nothing kink out of a kissing or whatever. The mom's like, I found porn on my daughter's computer. And like, they just like preemptively like blocked EBSCO host for the entire state of Utah. just like it's like we're going to block it until we figure it out was that just like uh so is is it one of those situations where like the state library funded funded like public library access so they they blocked the state library access yeah it's like a school it was like some mom who's inspired by these christian groups and these christian groups don't do want in what miracle i'm saying like all these ala like advice guys focus on what to do about

these local organizations and these local lobbying these aren't local organizations at all so the the thing for libraries to do is like buying together and form very strong local ties because with that you can you can fight back against this sort of thing because they don't have the money to fight 50 state battles no they're the money to do like one big big battle a year it's stochastic Karenism yeah they inspire rogue actors to go out and complain well and it's like live laugh love baby it's not like I wouldn't even say it's that. It's like this, it's like this myth of a lone wolf kind of thing where it's like you have social pressure acting upon people to do these things, right? Like some Karen sees two girls kissing on her daughter's computer and she's got, you know, she's on Facebook. She's connected to her friends who are like, hey, have you heard about these gays on on the computers? And so she's got this in her head. So she's got this in her head and she sees this. And she knows. that this organization exists. So she's got that trigger event to get the resources from these organizations, which, as you said in your article, have guidelines on their websites about what to do

when you see stuff like this, how to do activism or activism, in quotation marks, how to make a fuss about these sorts of things, how to get people to pay attention. So it's not a rogue actor. It's a coordinated sort of thing. Basically, someone sees a thing and she has these resources. or they have these resources to, you know, contact these, you know, organizations that are funded by evangelicals or, you know, it's probably all evangelicals or Mormons or whatever. And especially in a state like Utah where Mormons are funding a lot of things like this, it's not a rogue event.

It's a coordinated attack because this person is, to some extent, supported by this funded group is what I'm reading here, right? Yes and no. Like, you're right in that it's not a rogue actor could. they can draw on these resources of these big organizations. Yeah. But it is, it's an inspired individual, I guess, rather than like the real risk in the 60s and 70s and 80s with like groups of evangelicals in a state would organize and push to change the law on the state.

But I think that has lasting impact. I think it's more organized than we make it out to be. I mean, there's that recent thing. I mean, they can't do anything about it yet, but like where they want to force Apple to put, filters on iPhones. Yeah. Like where, but like they can't start actually enforcing that until like, I think like two or three other states or something like that sign onto it as well.

And then it would be like you could turn the filter off, but like iPhones then could not be made or sold without having that filter in software installed on. But I don't have to comply with that unless it's initiated at a federal level. And like apparently the like at the fine. is not to exceed like 500 bucks or something. Like, and that's as much as they can charge you ever. Like,

and on the books, it's on the books and all they have to do is like expand it every year. Yeah. All they have to do is like slowly escalate it. Yeah. That's what they're hoping will not notice. Yeah. Yeah.

Library can win these fights if, as if they organize on a local level, if they do like, if they work to have those alliances, because that's how they want in Utah is like to get Epsco host back. But like, yeah, this disinuing monopolization just makes it real

hard for everybody. Open source everything, basically. Yep. And unionized. That's it. That's the whole podcast. Open source. These things were originally developed by like, it's funny. Someone was posting about how some of these like tools, like a lot of search interfaces and stuff

were developed originally by like universities and stuff and then bought by private companies. Yeah, ex-sliberus. Yeah. Ex-Librus was in the Hebrew university. Yeah, because it was Aleph, right? Yes. Yeah. And that went through their commercial technology commercialization office, whichever large university has, which tries to like sell things that are created or patented or, you know, in some way, spin it off into a business, which I really don't understand how that benefits the university most of the time.

I understand it for like data collections that you sell licenses to, but like if you just create a new business, like, okay, the money goes to that business now. So what? It's just all part of the neoliberal project. It just seems like you're just doing it for the good of creating a business. I'm really not clear on any royalties you get going forward. Creating entrepreneurs. In the Mormon MLM dorm. Did they have an internet filter?

I don't think so. The University of Utah doesn't do filtering. I thought you were only allowed to use family search. No, they trust the good Mormons to self-censor. No, the University of Utah, that's the heathens. They didn't get into BYU or BYU, Idaho. Exactly.

Yeah, I know. If you're a godless heathen, you go to the U of you. A secular. And then you have like this school sex professor who's like been in documentaries and stuff. She's pretty rad. I met her. She's got spiky hair. You've probably seen her, Brie.

She's cool. But yeah, no, because I remember my, the dean of the library and like the associate dean, at least of my department when I was there, were always against filtering and stuff for the library. So the University of Utah is actually pretty cool sometimes. Shout out to them. They probably use accountability buddies. My friend, when he started, when he started college,

he got into a Christian frat that he helped start. And he was never like really religious. So I thought that was kind of a weird move for him. But he was just getting like more conservative in general. And so he lasted until they were like, okay, so we're going to install these filters on each other's computers, and if you look at porn, it emails your accountability buddy. Oh, my God.

And they confront you about it. That's some real-life South Park shit. This sounds like the opening of a fanfic, to be honest. Just take that premise and make it queer. I was just, you know, because... I was just... When you're looking at looks like, this guy looks like me. Accountability buddies to lovers, like...

It's a pipeline. I know there's, but there needs to be. So in 2018, the Kansas City Royals held a anti-porn training as part of their spring training camp. A fucking baseball team, 2015 World Series champs. The Kansas City Royals had an anti-porn workshop as part of their spring training. I know this because my cousin posted it on Facebook saying how proud she was of them, and that's why I no longer have Facebook. So, so proud you, you sat in this high school gymnasium and learned about porn.

The evils of porn and how it hurts families isn't good for women and makes men have problems. And they all had to sign a little card that said they'll be abstinent until marriage. I actually wanted to ask Bree about porn addiction. Is this a real thing? Because I see people talk about, I see like real, real ass people on the internet who are like, yeah, I was like dealing with porn addiction. so I had to stop, like, watching porn because it was, like, doing a lot of harm. I watched a true life episode about it. These were, like, queer people, too.

It was throwing me off. And so I think when we were talking earlier about, like, Tumblr doing this to people's brains, I think this is someone whose brains been kind of broken by Tumblr. And they had convinced themselves they had a problem with pornography. It's the Reddit no-fap people that they've probably broken. I remember seeing a Twitter thread. The Migtows. I remember seeing a Twitter thread about.

this because the only people who are actually deeply affected by porn addiction are people who are religious to begin with. So if you already had that toxicity in your life, then of course porn's going to be an addiction because you're not allowed to explore it in a healthy way. So there is like like any good therapist will tell you like, oh, you should always like validate what the person's doing, right? And like you should if they feel like they're a porn addiction like we should validate that or through it. But like there's not. And like the DS and like the, a lot of Christians tried really hard thing or it is tried really hard to get it added to the DSM. And it just got it got voted down again and again. And it's like there's like there's like

impulse control disorder. And that's probably the closest thing we have to like what you might want to call porn addiction. But it's not. It's like there's no chemicals involved. And then the no fact people will be like, this is in your granddaddy's porn. And this is like, nonstop porn all the time. And then they go on about like how you could watch 30 hours of porn, which is like, why are you telling on yourself like that? They're only 24 hours in a day. Exactly.

I mean, you got to pull an all night. It's like a whole time. You got to watch your cell phone and your laptop. At the same time. It's called double. Yeah. I think those are, I mean, those are the kind of people who are like obsessed with sex and like resentful that

they're like not having sex. So they only think about sex kind of people. But the part that. I'm more, because like, honestly, fuck those people. I don't care. They would love it. But I just think it's weird that you have all these like queer and trans teens doing this to themselves. Are we talking about the thing that was going around that was, it's bad to have a sexual fantasy about a stranger or somebody without their consent?

So therefore you have to psychically ask their consent before you ban a science. about them. Okay, now I know I see the train you're on. And honestly, porn solves this problem because there's implied consent. But also without the, because that was like witchy tumbler and Twitter who were doing like a psychic permission. But even without that, you have like teens who are like, where if they feel attraction towards someone else who is also underage, that then that is bad because they're feeling attraction to someone who is underage when they themselves are. Or just that like, if you feel sexual attraction towards a stranger without like having a connection or something that that's objectifying and creepy and predatory.

It's getting bad. Where are their parents? Where are their elders? Like, we need some queer elders here. They need to listen to people. Then they call them, then they call trans women pedophiles on Twitter when they, then that's what happens when you try to get the, you know, elders involved. They just start calling trans women pedophiles.

Because if the elders. Can someone just slap these damn kids? Yeah, exactly. If you have any sort of engagement whatsoever on any level with somebody who's under the age of 18, you're a pedophile. You're a pedophile. Yeah. And if you are want like, like there's some discourse lately. And like it's way more complicated.

But basically like a lot of people are being like, why do you want why a fiction to have sex in it so bad? Why do you want to read about like high schoolers fucking? And I'm like, that was a very high schoolers want to read about high schoolers fucking. specific situation though because I was reading that thread it was very bifobic is is part of the deal yes but that like that argument that like not I've seen that if you want to have sex in YA fiction or if you are someone who writes about teens having sex then you are a pedophile that argument's been longer than that like book thing but that's the most recent version of it but no it's been like because people were calling john green a pedophile yeah no the discourse Yeah. This would have been absolutely ruinous to 54th Prime Minister of Japan Shenzhou Abe. Oh, God. Who made sure that anime had scenes where kids wanted to grow up to have kids of their own

to encourage the birth rate to go up in Japan. In Germany, throughout history, it's been Japan and Germany consistently without fail. To have the weirdest shit. France. Excuse you. Japan and Germany always will always be weird. Germany, best philosophers, weirdest sex. Pulling it back to the internet filtering when I was looking through the different filters.

There's a specific one that was the German Youth Protection Act, I think it was. And it's a legal thing. Like for the protection of the youth, and I think it probably has to do with like the history of Nazism and stuff. but it was really interesting to read up about that because it's a whole filter that this company has created just so they can be compliant with German law. It's not just enough to block. Yeah. I'll have to look it up, but it was, because I had it checked for a while in the filter because I was like, oh, it's just going to block pornography. No, it's a whole thing.

So, yeah, German, Germany. Normal Germans like you and me. I'm not German. I just like to pretend that I am. Gem and Gemman Spocka party. Because I wear a turtleneck. Because I wear a turtleneck and I love Crout Rock. I mean, fuck yeah.

I'm working on this fucking link data, wiki data abstract right now and it quotes craftwork in the title. Awesome. Yeah. It's my cyborg manifesto for wikidata. And it's called We Are the Robots. It's going to be wicked. It's going to be great. And then you have popcorn fade in for the background.

Yes. Oh, I'm... Arthur's being so cute, and I will continue to take pictures and put them in the various chats because Bree's not in the Discord, so I will send them to the Facebook message tweet. My brother's cat got a lion's shave. He's like a big, fluffy, fluffy boy,

and he just got like a full lion's shaved. Oh, Arthur's a king. Yes, he is. Except when he's a pumper-nickel loaf. Oh, I can show you the kit and I'm going to get. Oh, that's exciting. Oh, that's exciting. I just sent you some more Arthur, exclusive Arthur content.

Hot Arthur. I remember when I was in Twitter jail, the podcast Twitter was the only place that Arthur could get posted. That wasn't like my Facebook. Did you just be in the Twitter jail at the same time Stephen Guy Bray did? Wait, Stephen Guy Bray was in Twitter jail too? Yes, for exactly the same amount of time. For like the two months that I was in Twitter jail? Yeah.

Poetry Daddy was in Twitter jail? What happened? He got banned because he was like, he said something about straight people. Like he said like straight people aren't great all the time or something like I'm Twitter. Oh, God forbid. Yeah. Okay, water's wet. Facts. I'm glad he's not in Twitter jail anymore.

His fucking, I love that his Twitter is just like, let's talk about fucking poetry. And also I'm going to treat this like grinder. And I'm like, thank you God. He's the best. I know. We have like a, like, not a date plan, but we have like drinks plan. Amazing. He calls me handsome sometimes, so it's great. You told me, like, about, like, these orgies he would have outside, like, to an Indiana in the winter.

And, like, why are you allowed to exist? You're just, like, you're just, like, transcendent of every rule. Yeah. I bought, like, his, like, gay Shakespeare book and, like, it has flowers on the front. And so I took a picture of it in one of my floral shirts. And he's, like, that matches. You're very handsome. Thank you.

I'm like, God, thank you. I felt validated by poetry, Daddy. Here's the kitty. It's so good. Oh, Maude. Monceum. Madonna beauty mark. Good.

Are you going to name her Madonna? Right now, her name is Willow, and I'm kind of partially... Name her Ann Child. I'm quite proud of that joke. Thank you, PBR. Oh, my God, the baby. It's a little kitty. Don't tell anyone I make those noises.

Yeah, exactly. You fuckers in here, nothing. Arthur is the normal. He's so good. He likes my boyfriend more than he likes me, I think, though. Which, you know, valid. He's a good person to like a lot. You're like, yeah, I like my boyfriend more.

I like me. I like my boyfriend a lot, too. He sat on his foot and put his tail over it the other day, and I was like, oh. It was so cute. I think we can wrap up. We should all just go watch porn. Just like porn.

Except for all the micro abrasions, which is not good for F. Yes, yeah, pay your sex workers. That's what, if you guys take fun, donate to, like, the local sex work. Sort of like, there's a few, I know, but you should do that. Yeah, yeah, I can get. Yeah, if you got links, give us links. Yeah. It's great talking to you, Bree.

Good to see you again. Thanks for coming on. Yeah. Yeah. Like, last time I saw you was... When you moved? Although, like, July 14th, they're like, you need to cross the Canadian border by the 21st. Just like pack up my whole fucking life and drive to Canada.

Stop and use that out. Yeah, I remember when you moved to Canada. I was like, what the fuck, why are you moving to Canada? But now you're, like, doing cool things. Yeah. I'm really happier in Canada and doing okay and at UBC, which is on a beautiful place. Anyway, Swan Vancouver is Asian Sex Worker Fund. And all they do is support indoor Asian sex workers.

And they are supporting a lot of sex workers right now. I did not know this, but Vancouver is the biggest center of Asian, anti-Asian discrimination, like hate crime in the West. I had no idea until I moved here. Man. Yeah, like support your local library organizations, organize against that, support sex workers. and repeal Fossa Susta. Yeah.

Collect porn for your archives and special collections. I almost web. And feel free to get in touch. I'm always happy to help anybody interested in this area. Bree is the fucking best. No. Yes, you are. I can hear these things about me all are implode and die.

Your total sweetheart. No, it was not. Everyone go read Bree's book. Yeah, Bree. Is there anything you want to plug? What do I have? I do have an article coming out eventually in social text about why Library of Congress classification puts children in porn right next to each other.

Cool. It's like porn, spanking children in school, children's sexuality. It's like Foucault has entered the chat. Hey guys. Ha ha ha. Maybe that's what Humbert Humberd is based on. No, because Hukho like little boys. Yeah.

Anyway. I just like Humbert, Humbert is Foucau. like I can't get the image out of my head. Someone's like, over, Herbert is like Foucault talking about children. And I'm like, oh, I'll never get that image. Yeah, there it is now. Anyways, thank you, all.

That was fun. Thank you, Bree. Thank you for coming on. It was very fun talking about porn. You should do it again sometimes. Great. Yes, come on, talk about porn again. Anytime.

Anytime. If it's in the news, just to call me off, I'll be ready. Cool. Hot eggs. And good night.