librarypunk - 018 - Sacred Titties

Episode Date: July 8, 2021

Movie night! We’re watching The Name of the Rose (1986) about a mystery in an abbey that has scriptoriums, lost books, and twinks.  Missing Eco: On Reading "The Name of the Rose" as Library Criticism  https://libraryofbabel.info/

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I'm Justin. My pronouns are he and him. I'm Sadie. My pronouns are she and they. I'm Jay. My pronouns are he and him. I'm Carrie. My pronouns are she, her. And I'm an academic health sciences librarian. I assumed he could not resist the temptation to penetrate the library. Yeah. So we're going to talk about the 1986 movie starring Sean Connery and Christian Slitter, The Name of the Rose.

Hey, what time does Sir Sean Connery go to Wimbledon? What time? About tenish. Sir Sean Connery like herbs. Herbs? Does he like herbs? I don't know. Does he like herbs?

Yes, partially. Partially? I love how they like Sean Connery can't talk like anyone else except Sean Conner I love how I'm fucking Highlander he's supposed to be Egyptian They just I'm Scottish but I'm Wow that sounds like brown face

It literally is Wow thanks for bringing that up Yeah and then they got a little French dude trying to be Scottish I'm like That's like a terrible idea This just in Sean Connery Problematique

Uh oh Yeah, I saw him choke a woman with a swimsuit top and a James Bond movie. Yeah. I was just say the French guy was from the Provenceau region of Scotland. You know, it's not, it's only haggis if it's from the haggis region of Scotland. Otherwise, it's called glistening intestines. I bet Haggis probably is like a controlled term in the UK. I bet like you can't call other stuff Haggit.

They love doing that shit. Like vegan haggis not real. You have to call it imitation. Intentation. There's like a pie like a baker's pie or something that like you can't call it if it's not from the baker's region or whatever. It's, they love that shit. Anyway, this was a movie we wanted to talk about because, one, Sean Conner and Christian Slater in the Middle Ages, which just sounded very, very funny.

And I read it was considered the best depiction of a medieval library, like, scriptorium in film. I did read later that it's considered a little bit too, the scriptorium was probably too big, but the whole premise of the movie, is like this is a fictional abbey that is has like a huge library so the premise of the movie is Sean Connery and Christian Slater are Franciscan monk a friars and they are going to this abbey to have an ecumenical conference with the papal embassy who don't show up till later in the film, and they're going to debate the poverty of Christ. And that's really not the interesting part because right around the beginning, there's murder afoot, and it immediately turns into Sherlock Holmes.

Like literally, he says elementary Adson or whatever, adso, whatever his name is. Or Angel. Exactly. Yeah. William of Baskerville, I was like, are you serious? Be more trans-carry. Even Arthur's like, come on, Umberto Echo. Is that in the book?

Is he William Baskersville in the book? He might be, yeah. Oh, man, I missed that reference. I don't really know anything about Sherlock Holmes except the Wishbone episode. I love Wishbone. And the Spark song Sherlock Holmes. Mm-hmm. So that, oh, and I watched the Bended Cumber, Snatch.

Mm-hmm. The Furbius Bander Snatch. Sure. With hot priest. Yeah. Hot priest. Yep, it's Brother William of Baskerville. So I thought that was like a reference to the typesetter.

So I was like hoping for like some kind of type setting based. Oh no. I was like knowing this is going to be a deep cutting type. I was like, is Caslon going to show up? I mean, knowing Echo, it probably also was that. Yeah, I was like really hoping for like a high-minded reference and then to find out that it was just like fucking Sherlock Holmes was kind of a letdown to be honest. Yeah. On the nose.

The main thing the Echo is kind of taking A-M-At in this movie. So I read an article by, oh, geez, I didn't get the person's name. I will link to it. But it's called Missing Echo on Reading the Name of the Rose's Library Criticism. And Echo has like a lot of criticisms of like academic libraries. like modern academic libraries. And he wrote a paper called De Bibliotheca, our old friends.

And he talks about sort of the priestly hidden knowledge role of academic library. So it's a thoroughly like modern depiction of a library set in the medieval period. The main impediment to solving the mystery of the murders is the highly controlled library, which only the librarian and his assistant can enter. And then you also have the blind librarian Yorga,

who I guess was the former librarian, but that's not really explained in the movie, except that he just knows everything about the library. At the center of the plot is Aristotle's legendary lost treaties on comedy, and of course that's a book that no longer exists. So this is a book that is hidden, and people keep trying to read it, have to keep reading it in secret,

and then they mysteriously end up dying. there are some things that Jeffrey Garrett, that's the name of the person who wrote the article. He talks about on the book, this is an analysis of the book, this struggle between the scholar and the librarian, preservation of knowledge versus use of knowledge, like censorship, the censorious nature of libraries, the structure of catalogs, mnemonic versus non-nemonic types of information seeking. And like the advent of new user technologies is actually a big plot point in the book. which is the eyeglasses. So the eyeglasses are actually a big plot point in the book where Sean Conner uses them to read the catalog. And in the film, he doesn't really,

it's not important to plot at all. But in the book, the blind library in Yorga steals his eyeglasses so he can't keep reading the catalog and try and figure it out. So the library is fictional. It's much larger than any library of that time would have been. It represents an art. architectural monster in the medieval context. So it's literally a labyrinth.

And it's a commentary on how there really is no, there is no canon anymore. You can't just read the authorities anymore. You have to kind of search around for information and kind of on your own. And libraries really only get in the way of doing that. At least that's the way that Echo sees it. He sees libraries and librarians not as like a service ideal, but as assemblages of labor. So they gain their own inertia and biases over time because they're humans.

And so he has, you know, he doesn't say anything positive about libraries, but you can kind of read into it into his speech to Bibliotheca. He both sees the library as like an ideal of knowledge as like a vain attempt or not a vain attempt. What's, I've got the. Well, he sees the library. as both an ideal of having a vanity of knowledge which Echo sees is a good thing, and then also it's censorious nature, which he's criticizing, and how it's become labyrinthene and library searches no longer go from point A to point B, so it no longer goes from the catalog of the reference desk to the book, the answer, the truth.

So the library, the literary text, and the labyrinth, each often serve as a sign for each other. They represent each other. And so the library is literally a labyrinth in the book, but also it centers around a text, which people are trying to gain access to, stop access to preserve, but not allow people access to forbidden knowledge. And this is all held in by the librarians. Yeah, like knowledge itself being harmful. And it's like, what is the role of the library and when knowledge itself can be deemed as harmful is sort of. like that whole scree that like the blind librarian goes on about the how evil laughter is um like

that's like a whole like 50 pages in the bit of the book that I have read where it's about like the connection between knowledge and pleasure um and how like the wrong kind of knowledge can cause the wrong kind of pleasure that's where you get all the laughing and the dancing and stuff so it's interesting to sort of see how the the, the text. I'm going to use that in the pretentious snooty shit is meaning the book and the movie and all that as sort of setting up like his right, like librarian is sort of gatekeeper of knowledge, but is the librarian also a protector and what is a librarian of protector of and is that a malicious role or not. And it seems that the thesis of this film is that it is, or the text that the librarian is inherently kind of a not a not quite a malicious role. delicious figure, but a, I can't think of the word, word is bad, basically. It's quasi-religious.

Yes. They all die, too. They all die. The librarian, the blind librarian, the assistant, all dead by the end of the film. So, you know, take from that what you will. Don't get vocational all-kids. Also, don't lick books.

Don't lick books. Don't they make those little rubber condoms for your fingers? for turning the pages on the rare books. Yeah. I thought that was for counting money. Yeah, but it helps with the pages. Like, I've seen... It's called licking your fingers.

Come on. It's sticky. I loved the gross fucking image of the poison goop on the pages. I was like, no one noticed this. They're like, this is a good idea. Like my finger and turned the page in the green goop. Yeah, speaking of least favorite parts of the film, that was probably my second least favorite part is the close-ups of all of these monk figures that aren't made to, like,

they're all made to look all awful and whatever and just the giant licking of the finger, like, zoomed in. Mouths are gross. I fucking love how gnarly every single character looked except for Sean Connery, who was fully wearing eyeliner. Yeah. Like, everyone else in this movie looked rough. In Christian Slater, who was the pretty boy, which.

And he looked a little rough, too. Yeah, that's true. He looked like he could use a nap or two. Roshan Connery is just there resplendent and his monk's robes and his eyeliner. Yeah. Christian Slater plays Enzo the Twink. Why is he so weirdly hot? Right.

Babby Christian Slater playing Adzo. I mean, it's a plot point. Like again and again, they're like, hang on, I got one. They're like, kill twinks? Have you not heard the devil is hurling beautiful boys out of windows? It's like one of three or four times the line beautiful boys is used in this movie. They're killing the twinks. So the message is don't be a beautiful boy and don't be a librarian.

Yeah. Oh, well, I guess I'm fucked then. This is your right out. Jay's worst timeline. I got to go into hiding, I think. What does Umbretto Echo have against me personally, even considering that this book has all of my favorite things in it? Bad, beautiful boy. I'm such a bad, beautiful boy.

Bad beautiful boy. In exchange for a natural caresses. Natural caresses. Get the burr going in your ars. Caresses. Yeah. They really love talking about,

it's really fun watching a lot of virgins talk about sex so much. Oh, God, yeah. They're like, it's so scary. know who knows the most about sex fucking virgins, right? They like talk around it constantly, even though the flesh.

It's just like a library punk group chat in there. We don't talk around it. It's not an eight-minute conversation about blow jobs in this movie. Oh, that's nothing. I like the one scene where they're like,

cleaning the second or yeah the the guy who was drowned and well who died and then was put in a bath of pig's blood that was disgusting and they're like cleaning him up and they're like well the Sean Connery character is like well was he kissing the monk that killed himself basically and it's like well there's temptation of a natural persuasion and then there's temptation of an unnatural persuasion and I'm like can't you be both I loved that little little speech that the unnatural persuasion temptation. It was so good. I was like, this is gayer than I thought it was going to be.

It's also worth noting that this film is really hard to find in the United States. We totally found it legitimate ways. Yeah. Yeah. The file name definitely did not have BR rip on it. It's totally not that fucking, like, that Twitter that, like, does the, like, phony, like, satire of, like, like when a movie says its own title in it. And for the Blade Runner, it's like, you must be.

And it's like a bootleg title of like someone who ripped Blade Runner. It's like, you must be Blade Rutter 2020 underscore XV or something. For your consideration. For your consideration, right. So I thought what we could do is recap the movie. And I've got like a basic outline of some of the scenes. And then that'll give us some structure. But I want to talk about like the implication.

a little bit first. Yes. So it's set in 1327, and Jay, you were saying earlier, like using the, calling the movie the text, it opens up by saying a palim sest of the Iberto echo novel. Right. And the book itself, Adzo's little narration, because the book itself is actually Echo, talking about how he got Adzo's manuscript. And then the prologue opens with Adzo's.

starting his little narration by actually just quoting the Bible, going like in the beginning was the word and the word was God and all this stuff. And then he goes into his little, and then there was brother William and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, speech. It's a really interesting framework for a text. Yeah. Yeah, it's so, yeah, I like how the book is basically like the Princess Bride. It's a book with a book in it. That's fun. Yeah, basically. Yeah. There's even footnotes. It's set in northern Italy. We're, we get an opening shot of like two burning stakes at the beginning outside the Abbey. I didn't write a whole lot about this in my notes actually,

but like there are a lot of scenes of peasants like being mistreated in this movie. It's just like kind of just done for really no reason, but it's just like to make the church look out of touch and corrupt. Our two friars get there, Sean Connery and Christian Slater, and there's a mystery of foot. The first thing Sean Connery does is like tell, like Edso's like dancing around because he has to pee and then he's like, oh, you see it, you can find the bathroom by going this way. And he's like, how did you know, have you been here? And he's like, oh, I just saw a man go in there and then walk out more slowly.

An air of contentment about him. You have a really good Sean Connery impersonation. Yeah. I love how that like scene opens where it like it looks like Sean Connery's pissing and then it shows that it's him pouring water thing. I was like, okay movie. because it like lingers on it. That was weird. I think it was just to make it so like you knew that Edso had to pee without him being like,

I got it to make tinkles. Yeah, then the abbot comes in and Sean Connery is like, do you have something you want to tell me? And he's like, they're throwing twinks out of windows. Beautiful boys. Unnatural temptations. Throwing beautiful boys out of unopenedable windows. is the whole thing.

So everybody thinks that the devil is put. Buddy jumped. Yeah. You have multiple towers. The devil's getting the twinks. No one's safe. God help us all. Well, they think it's the devil doing it because, like, how could his body get out there?

And Sean Connery's like, it's clearly a suicide. Oh, first we meet Sean Connery's friend, who's like this weird old friar, who is like, I thought the joke was, Because he's lying face down on the ground and behind the choir. And I thought the joke was he was like a drunk friar. Like we were going to get like a friar tuck moment where he's just like completely passed out on me. I'm like, oh, he's going to be like the fun friar. And like then he just starts being really creepy at Christians later. And it's like women are evil.

And it's a good thing except for, of course, the very very. and Mary. And there's a statue of Mary, and he's like, see, her ugliness is a woman makes her even more divine. And then it's just really weird and really gross. Also, 80s, great time for gross dudes. They just love throwing them in the background of like, just unique looking men. Yeah, it was, it was bad enough that he was just all ranting about how horrible women are. And then just to be like, yes, but breasts. Small perky ones are the best, by the way. totally does her mom me a twinks

I thought he was like making a pass at Ezzo I was thinking that too I was like is he in hiding not because he's a heretic but for other reasons

so we see the first scene of like the peasants having to give their taxes and their tithes it's really funny and then it's really weird and there's like a shit heap

outside the abbey where people are scavenging and they're like feral and this is where we meet the feral girl who does not have a name as Sadie noted in her notes the only woman in the movie and does not have a name it's a statue of Virgin Mary and this young peasant lady

who she doesn't even get a name it hurt oh the fuck person yeah yeah she exists literally just for fucking yeah that was her whole point in the movie Don't you know that that's what women are for?

Not in the Catholic Church. This is where we... So they're investigating the murder scene, right? Or where the body was found. And this is where we get the elementary, my dear Edso line, which is extremely funny. He's like, okay, it was a suicide. And they're like at dinner and we get the weird finger-licking scenes. Of course, hanging over all of this is if Sean Conner doesn't like find an explanation,

they're going to call the Inquisition. And no one wants them. No one wants the Inquisition to show up because the guy's a jerk. I kept on just singing like The Inquisition from like History of the World Part one in my head like the entire movie. So we got our first treaties on not laughing while they're eating dinner. So like the lector is just, I don't know what they're, what they would be called in an abbey. But he's just like reading while they're doing that.

And it's just like, oh, don't, don't laugh. And I think there's another scene where Yorka is being read something from Proverbs, maybe it's coming up. They go back to their cell that Edso and Sean Connery's character, which is William, of Baskerville, because he's Sherlock Holmes. So they're hanging out, and Sean Connery's doing astronomy. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, we get a view of the nightlife of the Abbey.

And we also find out Sean Connery has like a dark backstory. It's not explained yet. My backstory. It's on my back. Read my story. So the nightlife, we see Yorga being read proverbs about too much knowledge being bad. And then we also get the assistant librarian, like, flagellating himself. Is the connotation also that he might be castrated? Because I noticed in the choir scene, he had like a fucking castrato voice.

That is implied, I think. Is it? But I don't look it's said. It also might have been like, I don't know, just like he's inverted is something they say. Oh, they were using that word as early as the 14th century. Okay. Oh, you mean 1986? Yeah, like inverts a fucking. Yeah.

That's a term. That's a term. It sure is a word. Because you're an invert, not a pervert. Mystery solved, so we think. And then the next morning they find a guy with his feet. sticking Looney Tune style out of a vat of pig blood, which is kind of unintentionally funny. But they pull them out, and then they find out it's one of the other brothers who works in the

scriptorium. Oh, and the first guy who died also worked in the scriptorium. And Sean Conner is like, no, the first guy definitely killed himself. This is just a coincidence, which is kind of the theme of his character. He's like kind of always like seeking after knowledge, but never like quiet attaining it is kind of a theme in the movie. Then we have this very modern autops. scene, yeah. He's edging for knowledge. Yes. That was a phrase I could have gone my whole life without hearing.

Thank you, Gary. Hey, you're welcome. That's what I'm here for. So we have this very modern-looking autopsy scene where they're like in the botanist. Bodnist, by the way, is my favorite character in this movie. He's just like... Botanist rules. He's just like competent at his job and just like doesn't fuck anyone over and doesn't

like molest anybody. It just seems like kind of a harmless, just weirdo who likes to hang out with drugs all day. I mean, if I could pick a job in an abbey, I'd pick that one too. He's very like the fucking, is it the friar in Romeo and Juliet? Who also did botany and shit, right? Mm-hmm. I think that's the idea. So then they're talking about, like, were these twinks gay with each other?

Because the two guys, the two first guys who died are twinks. So that's, so for the rest of the movie, there's, there's no more twinks left except, uh, etso. Oh, so we ran out of twinks. You can't have a monastery or an abbey or whatever without twinks. It's like when they run out of bread bowls at Panera. Like, you know, you got to shut it down at that point. Oops. Oops. Oops. We're out of twinks. Oops. God. Yeah. The last one.

Yeah. They just got the last person just ordered the last twink. Fresh out. Come back tomorrow. You can eat it out of a regular bowl. Nice Tacey's the Twink, though. Sorry, our twink machine is broken. We need to go We need to go defrost some more.

It'll take at least another 20 minutes. To defrost the twinks. So, speaking of twinks, Edso starts wandering around the abbey and he runs into Ron Perlman whose character name I'm not going to use because he's just Ron Perlman. Salvatore.

I don't pay the taxes. I send to the calzori in the space. Oh yeah. So he speaks in like a weird esoteric mix of languages. He also is like a hunchback and he has like this really gross rat tooth coming out of the top of his gums

which I really didn't like. Hey, they didn't have modern orthodontics. a man. Do you think like a hunchback is going to have fucking headgear? They didn't have braces in 1986, Justin. God. So he's kind of like weird and he has like patchy hair. And I think later it's like implied that he, there's a weird scene where Edso is reading out of one of the forbidden books in the library. And he starts talking about like how hanging out in graveyards because of like lust makes you like a word. and they start describing the symptoms of lichanthropy and it just all sounds like Ron Perlman's character.

So I don't know if that was intentional, but it was a really weird scene. The only reason I paid attention to it is because they mentioned a Muslim philosopher and I was like, I thought, no, those texts had been translated. But then I looked a guy up and he was a Spanish theologian. So that was why this all takes place. Probably from like Elandalus and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He lived like only 100 years before. Yeah. And because like there was already really prominent medical texts like Islamic medical texts. at that point. Yeah, but they hadn't been translated in the Latin, which Edso wouldn't have been able to read. Oh, right.

Yeah, they existed in that area. Yeah. Yeah, so I was wondering how he was reading about this if it hadn't been translated yet. So that was why I really dug deep on that guy. Sean Connery walks in and finds out the Ron Perlman is a heretic of the, what is it, Dulcenaites who believe in the absolute poverty of the church. Again, going back to our main theme. they also killed like rich clergy, I guess.

So he's clearly in hiding. And Sean Conner, he's explaining this and doing a little more, some forensic files, stuff with the snow. He's trying to teach Edso how to be a detective for some reason instead of like making him read the Bible all day. Seems like not a very good mentor. But then we get the first look at the scriptorium, which is absolutely like a massive operative. operation. Let's see. Sean Connery pulls out his eyeglasses for the first time.

And one of the guy goes, eyeglasses. He says like double, what does he say? Double lenses. Eyes of glass and twin hoops. And they treat it like a big deal. This is something that could have been completely cut from the movie because it has absolutely nothing to do with the plot in the movie. But, oh well.

So then they're like looking at the comics and the sides of the manuscript and Sean Connery's like laughing at them. And then Yorker comes in and is like, no laughing. Yeah, I like how the first dead twink was like real good at the comedy drawings. Like the Pope was a fox and like somebody else was a rabbit. Sean Connery is like, oh, he had a real talent. And I'm like, what was this fucking dude doing at this Abbey where he wasn't allowed to laugh? But he could fucking draw the Pope as a fox all day long and nobody he called him out on that?

I don't know. Well, Yorga is blind, so I guess he couldn't see. Oh, that's a good point. nobody snitched on him. Would he have always been blind? I think it's implied not. That's why the new librarian is the librarian. Yeah, he's got like, it looks like he has like cataracts or something.

So then Sean Connery and Yorga start arguing about laughter, and he like cites Aristotle. And he's like, have you read this? He's like, no, of course not. That's been lost. And that's the book that's at the center of everything. And they're not allowed in the library. And so he goes outside with Edso. And they're like, why are there no books for them to keep doing that we've been told that they have?

And he's like, well, it's clearly all been hidden in the library. And Sean Connery says this line. But I'll wager my faith that that tower contains something other than there. So he really wants to get into the library. And it's kind of clear like he just wants the excuse to. So then Ron Perlin tries to kill both of them. And they find the other Dolsonite guy who is like a big dude. But he's like not a weirdo until later.

he gets kind of weird. But, I mean, he is being, like, sentenced to death. So later in the movie, knowing that they're Dolsonites, he blackmels them into getting into the library overnight. Let's see. This movie really has a body count. Like, I mean, it's a murder mystery. So, like, of course, but it's like, it's more than twinks.

Oh, it's more than twinks. That could be the tagline, more than twinks. All the twinks happens before the film. opens. It's a post-twink film. God forbid. I don't want to live in a post-twink world. Who does?

This is a pro-twink podcast. What would you all do without me? It's true. They go into the scriptorium where the assistant librarian is in there reading the forbidden book and he's like doing the finger-licky thing. And I think he's like kind of like laughing at it because I guess he's never really read it. And they're trying to figure out how to get into the library and they can't.

but then they find a piece of paper with hidden writing on it, which is basically the call numbers for how to get to the specific book. I really wish they would have explained that part more. I'm like, I want to know what like Jupiter and... Oh, librarians never explain call numbers. Apparently. It's just like we don't want to mess with it. Like, we don't even like them. That's the thing.

They just fucking exist. Fuck call numbers. I think that's sort of echo's point. It's like cataloging systems are archaic and weird. So the assistant librarian runs out and they chase after them and they split up. And then this is where Edso goes into the granary and then the peasant girl's hiding in there. And then they have a sex scene that I really didn't like. I hate it every second of that.

I skipped through a lot of it. My soul left my body. So let's talk about complete lack of chemistry. Yeah, I like how the implication was he was so beautiful. She just had to fuck him like right there without like saying her own name or introducing herself. It was just like, oh, you're the pretty boy I saw earlier. Touched my boobs. Like, okay.

I did find the trying to fuck the robes thing kind of funny though. That was really funny though, yeah. If they'd cut before the sex happened, it would have been fine. But, yeah, I think... They could have left something to the imagination. And they left nothing to the imagination. Yeah. It was...

We were talking about this before we started recording. But I think what makes it so weird, one is Christian Slater is like 15 in this movie at this time. So I don't... I didn't look up how old the actress was. as a person, not the character. But yeah, however, like, in, like, pubbing out Christian Slater looks in this film, he actually is in real life.

Yeah. He's not pretending to be a teenager in this movie. He is. And it's... He's pubed up to the max. I think what makes it so disturbing is we're supposed to see this as, like, titillating. That's why it goes on so long.

And I think that's what makes it. so uncomfortable to watch. It's, it, it, it, it's kind of like the room. It's like a real, you are my rose kind of situation. It's like two seconds from like full male frontal to, like, you get like, female point of view, like everything. You get porn shots. You get porn shots.

Yeah. Yeah, it's, there's a money shot. The 80s weren't fucking around. Yeah. Oh, they were all on code. This is very unsubtle. Like, it is thoroughly uncomfortable. Like, I haven't seen a boob in a movie in a while.

I feel like that would... I feel like I committed a crime watching this sex scene. Yeah. It's extremely sus. Yeah. Like, I, like, feel like... And I think that's part of why this film is not easy to access in the United States. is because I feel like I committed a crime watching this scene of sexual Congress.

I wonder if any libraries around me have it. I'm curious now. It was extremely hard to find. Legally, of course. While that's happening, Ron Perlman and Sean Connery are having a conversation about eating rats in the graveyard where Ron Perlman just hangs out. Because he's supposed to be the creepiest character of all, but somehow. Yeah, somehow he's like the most normal. Yeah.

I saw him as like a point of comfort in all of this. I'm like, it's Ron Perlman and he's a huntback and I'm into that. My library has it. Yeah, his character was just unabashedly weird while everybody else was all suss trying not to be a weirdo. It's like at least he just let it all out. Yeah, he just was like honest about who he was unlike everybody else in the 1980s. Yeah, no. My library totally has this movie. Which is how you watched it, right, Jay?

Yep, totally. I watched it with subtitles on and there's like points where like the Ron, where Ron Perlman is like speaking in his like multi-language gibberish. And it's like the subtitles would be like like mumbles in Italian or something. And I'm like, what fucking language are they speaking then? Because this is Italy. So you're saying he's speaking Italian, but it's not what the other characters are speaking. Are we supposed to believe that they're speaking English?

Or just Latin? That's always risky to do. You should just have everyone talk with weird accents. But they need to talk in Latin, so they're like, oh, well. Just pull a Derek Jarman and make a whole movie in Latin and have it be real gay. Language is very much in flux at this point in time in Italy and in England. So things would have been very complicated to sess out in an honest way. So that's the cop-out.

that I'm going to give the benefit of to this pretty shitty film. Italian is still like about 50 languages in a trench coat. Yeah. It's primarily based on Florentine. Right. Yeah. Anyway, that's all I know about Italian. Yeah.

Yeah, Ron Perman like slips into Spanish and English. And also that reminds me that Sean Connery, the most Scottish man alive, is playing an Englishman in this movie. Brother William. I guess the Englishman didn't really exist. Let's get pedantic. We're on a podcast. Let's get fucking pedantic.

Had entree. Couldn't see it, but Carrie was Nerudo running into that. In place, it was quite impressive. Just really putting her all into it. Oh, yeah. Thank you, Carrie. Yes. We're warming up for your noise show.

Yeah. I got a noise show coming up. I guess all music is noise. Isn't that the point of the genre? Yeah. it basically is. All noise is music. All music is noise. You got it.

Yeah. You got me. Oh, my God. That's it. I figured it out. Holy shit. So then they go back to their room and Sean Connery's like, don't you have something to tell me. And he's like, yeah, I fuck that peasant girl. He's like, I think I'm in love.

And he's like, I'm an old virgin. I don't know anything about this. That's exactly what I tell people when they ask me for advice. I'm an old virgin. I don't know what you're talking about. The fuck you think I know. See, I got the sense that like Sean Connery had fucked and he just wasn't saying he had fucked. That's just John Connery.

He is Sean Connery. Like, how did they, why did they cast him as a person who has never fucked? He's Sean fucking Connery. He has fucked. Cast someone with virgin energy. Sean Connery does not have virgin fucking energy. Like they like fucking, they got Salieri to play the Inquisition guy. He's perfect at playing that he hasn't fucked.

So the rest of the friars show up and Sean Connery tries to go back into the library. The librarian says, no. They're sitting in choir, I think. Oh, they realize the assistant librarian is missing. Damn it. I hate when that happens. Just misplace your assistant librarian. librarian like that.

Yeah. Like that happens sometimes. It's nine o'clock. Do you know where your assistant librarian is? I like, we went to the blockbuster video. We got her picture taken. We got her thumb printed. Had the ID tags made.

And we still lost her. Did you get a chip implant? That's the thing these days. Oh, no. We didn't upgrade. They tried to upsell us, but we're on a, Fixed income. Oh, wow.

Budget cuts, you know. It would have been impressive if the Blockbuster had chipping. That would have been, they could have, you know, wreaked havoc if they had chipped people. Yeah, that would have been a very different world. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We would not have the Netflix infrastructure we do now if Blockbuster was microchipping people. So they find the assistant librarian, dead in the bath.

The botanist does. Again, just like the only competent person. kind of in the abbey kind of like does his job and does it well and doesn't assault anyone and so they figured out that he must have been a person who oh and when sean connery and ron perlman were talking shon conner basically ron perlman saw all the murders happen so at this point chan connery like knows this is halfway through the movie and he like basically knows everything it's happened like the mystery's kind of over at this point um except for like the last few pieces but he has like figured out everything and he's like okay here's what happened he like explains it all to the abbot And he's like, basically, this guy loves twinks. The assistant librarian loves twinks. And to impress his twink, he got him a book that was that he wanted to read, which was Aristotle's comedy, or treaties on comedy, in exchange for, hang on, I've got it in here. In exchange for unnatural caresses.

So some butt touches? I think it just means smooching, man. There's some smooching in this movie. Oh, yeah, there's lots of very slow, delicate close-ups of-ups of kissing each other and greeting. The first mouth kiss was stirring. Oh, yeah, I got my casick all in a flutter. It was alarming. The first mouth kiss caught me off guard.

Is that something in your cassock or he's happy to see me? I was like, what is going on with these monks? Are these horny monks? Obviously. They're all horny. Or erotic monks have ever seen. I did not. I thought I was watching a book movie.

I didn't know I was watching a horny monk movie. Justin, you got to find a drop from It's Always Sunny of Charlie going, does that make me gay for God? Does that make me gay? Am I gay for God? You betcha. So he, this is the first time we see the first twink. And so they got some real twinky boys. And so those two are best friends.

And that's why they both had access to the forbidden book. So the two illustrators die from it. And once the second illustrator dies, the assistant librarian's like, oh, shit, like, this is going to come back to me. I better throw him in a vat of pig's blood. He wasn't thinking clearly. Happens to the best of us. We all get panicked. And the abbot's like, hey, the Pope's embassy is coming, and I don't care.

So I'm going to burn this evidence that you found with the call number on it. The Inquisition will arrive. Is that a sex euphemism? It could be. The Inquisition of my dick. The Inquisition. And something, I don't know if you mentioned this, Justin, but all of the dead guys all have, like, the black fingertip and the black tongue. Mm-hmm.

From the licking. From the licking. Licking and picking. Licking something. A. So there are a lot of scenes of, to reinforce that this is how monks read, they lick and they flick. And that's what they're taught at monk school. That also sounds like a euphimit for sex.

Wait, that's like more of a girl thing, though. A lick and flick? Yeah. Or the very hottest of guys. very much. True. Tusha. So Edso goes down to the peasant village and we see the peasant girl's family. She's like picking mites out of her grandma's head. And then like her, a chicken dick shits on the face of this old woman lying

in the hut, which was extremely gross. And Edso's like, I'm so glad I'm a Franciscan that I'm allowed to like love people and not be a jerk. You carry that Jackoff motion you just made was my whole feeling during that scene Like I'm so glad I can Love this girl through her poverty And I was just like Jesus fucking Christ

My dude Like I mean actually Jesus fucking Christ Just Yeah that was a lot The old friar from the beginning Has to leave Because the Pope's embassy is coming And he literally like climbs in a barrel

And he's like Peace out I'm in my barrel And I would have like, is this like a Diogenes reference? Like, well, I don't get what's happening here. I thought they were going to close the barrel and like hide him in it. But no, it's just like his little barrel chair. So it doesn't fall out. I don't know.

They didn't have seat belts. So then they find a hidden entrance to the library. And they finally make it into the library, which is a huge labyrinth. He's just like, oh, it's the greatest libraries in the whole question of them. Yeah, Sean Connery just freaks the fuck out. He's loving it. Yeah. we have reached the full Borges portion of this movie.

Yeah. Jay, do you want to explain the Borges? Yes, the, so, and the name of the blind librarian comes from this. So there's this great Argentinian writer named Jorge Luis Borges. I'm probably saying that a little wrong, but whatever. He was also a librarian, and he wrote this short, he mainly did short stories, and he wrote this one called the Library of Babel, which sort of outlies a sort of like the universe as this labyrinthine library.

that's made out of these like hexagons and all of the books like the way they're arranged and it's sort of like within the library like any one book like it's all random but it contains all of human knowledge and anything that could ever be written or ever will and so the labyrinth like the library in this book and film is a labyrinth that is very similar to the library of babel to the fact that, and I don't remember how it was pronounced in the movie, but like the blind librarian's name is Jorge, or however they pronounce it, but it's spelled J-A-O, or J-O-R-R-G-E. Yeah, Yorgos. Oh, is that what it is? They do it Latin.

Yeah, but it's like the same base word, which is George. Yeah, exactly. Like the George's name, yeah. So that's sort of, like, as soon as they got in the library, I was like, oh, this is just pure Umberto Eka going, hi, Jorge, like, notice me. me semai. It did a pretty good job, actually. It was a pretty impressive, like whoever designed that in the film,

like the set designer, did a good job of sort of replicating that structure as it appears in the book. Because it's not exactly like it is in the short story, but, you know, it's the same kind of principle. I think there's a diagram in the book of the layout. I'm not sure. Yeah, there's the Abbey at the very beginning.

But I don't know if the, the library itself is diagrammed. I'm flipping through my copy here real quick. The set looks like MC Escher. It really does. Yeah. Very impressive set. I think some of it might be painting backgrounds.

I can't really tell. The advantage of older movies is you can kind of hide that stuff. So they get separated and Edso starts reading out of this book about likeanthropy, but it really doesn't, he talks about Ibn Hazing just seems, I really really, really don't understand what it's referencing here. And I think maybe the movie just got kind of confused. And there's a loose end that didn't get tied up. And there's an extra door in the library. They're trying to get through and they can't figure it out. And then the Inquisitors arrive. And they catch Ron Perlman doing some like luciferian heresy. So he's like doing witchcraft. Also the peasant girl is there for some reason. Like he's like going to bribe her with a chicken like licks her foot. He's just being a weirdo. I don't also know why she's there except basically just to get caught.

She's got to get threatened to be burned at the stake, right? Yeah. Something has to, we have to threaten to fridge her. So, so Ezzo has motivation. Yeah, and I can confirm there's no diagram of the library in the book, sadly. But I did want to say that all the beginnings of the chapters, it's very like, it's always sunny, the gang does this. It's always like, in which the abbot speaks again with the visitors.

And it says, like, what time of day it is by, like, doing the, like, vespers or whatever, like, prayer. whatever that the monks do during that time. That's how all the chapters are broken up. It's pretty cute. I read a lot about monks, so I wouldn't get some stuff mixed up. In the book, they're Benedictine monks. Right. And the movie, they're friars, which is weird.

I don't really know why that change was made, except I guess they thought that, like, friars were, like, more fun than Benedictine. Or, like, just, like, the iconography of what Americans might recognize, maybe. Was it made for an American audience? I don't know. It was made in Europe. Was it?

Hmm. I don't know of them. I think it was, I think the filmmakers were Italian. Because when I think of monks, I definitely think of the like, you know, circle of hair shaved away. The tonsure. The tonsure, that thing. Yeah. But I'm not Catholic, so I don't know.

I went to a Catholic university. I had to take classes on Catholicism, but I, and I spent time around Benedictine monks. But they seem pretty chill. Yeah, they're pretty chill. But I kind of get the idea like, yeah, Franciscans are kind of like fun, more fun than Benedictines. Benadikines are like, we're just going to, like, develop an eating disorder and pray a lot. And the Franciscans, like, made beer and shit?

Or is that the Dominicans? That's party monks. Party monks? Benedictines did, too, because Benedictine would liquor. Oh, okay. Yeah, all the monks party in their own way. That was a Zen co-on, Carrie. Thanks, man.

So the Inquisition guy looks, he would be great in like Monty Python. Like he has a very serious slash comical demeanor about him. I mean, it's Salieri. Yeah. Yeah, F. Murray, Abraham. He looked exactly, exactly like you would expect the Inquisition to look like, all of the Inquisition. He read the assignment and was like, all right, I got this.

Got this on lock. Channel, all my Salieri rage. into this. Did he win an Oscar for being Sally Harry? I think he did. He should have. So he starts torturing Ron Perlman. We also see a scene where they bring out

all his torture devices. There's like a lot of armored guards. That was fucking brutal. So he gets a false confession out of him overnight. But then the papal group show up and they're having like all the local peasants like push their card up the muddy hill.

just random weird and they're like all sitting inside and it's going like a mile an hour it's very like indulgent and like all the soldiers are like hitting the peasants and not helping okay I get it you're making a point and then they have like the big

scene which it looks like they're going to set up like a huge debate right you think this is going to be like a really big scene and hang on I have a drop for the scene ha ha ha ha They have amazing huge sombreros. It's really fun, and they're all decked out in red.

I guess they're Cardinals? I don't know. No, they're delicate. I don't know if they're Cardinals. I mean, they're in red. But. I don't know my Catholic semiotics, unfortunately. Cardinal means like you're really fucking high up.

Like, you're near Pope if you're a cardinal. Yeah. So it makes me think maybe it's just something I don't understand. Because I don't recognize this outfit. Could be a special occasion outfit. Yeah, I think it's just a medieval thing. Yeah, maybe it's just medieval fit. Medieval fits.

I really hope I can get a copyright strike for this. Well, if we talk over it, it'll be fine. I had to do it. Like, there's some very Italian-looking motherfifference. fuckers show up as the papal embassy with tassels on their hats. That sounds like some godfather rip-off ass shit

to me. I mean, probably. It's like, hey, what else is an Italian movie? The godfather and the godfather two. Hey man, you know what else I love? Godfather 3. And so the herbalist

sticks his head into the meeting and is like, Sean Connery, we found something out. I found that book that was missing. Because the assistant librarian like hit it behind a jar or something. And he's like, okay, I'll flip out. And like the Cardinals like still talking. And he's like, oh, sorry. And then like they just skipped the rest of the scene. Like they, they still like setting. Yeah. It's the whole premise of the movie and they just like don't give a fuck about like this pretense anymore. So the botan skits back. His place has been like ransack. He picks.

up the book with glove, but it doesn't matter because he's murdered. Murder? Murder. We see the next scene with the other like a dulcinate guy who's in head to granary. The librarian comes up to him and is like,

the Inquisition is going to charge you with being a heretic. And he's like, oh, thanks. I'm going to get out of here. And he tries to leave. And then you immediately see blood on the librarian's shoe. And it's like, okay, well, that didn't last long. It's like literally a minute before we find out who murdered the guy. It could have just showed us. But anyway, it was a good scene where he wipes the blood off of his of his toe. It was kind of worth it. By that point,

it's kind of like, wait, is this still a mystery movie? Because I don't, there's nothing left to mystery. Yeah, no, he like figured that shit out. Yeah. So the Inquisition immediately catches the Dolsonite guy and the three of them are put on trial. And it turns out, Sean Conner, used to be an inquisitor, had been imprisoned for voting to protect the heretic. And he's like, oh, the Inquisition used to be good, but then they strayed. I'm like, I don't know if that's historically accurate, but okay. And I think you were also allowed to have a defense in the acquisition. This is very much like a show trial in the movie.

And he's like, well, I was, I got stuck in prison, so I'm not going to like fight this anymore. And then so they have the trial. And again, it's a very set up scene, which is actually kind of pays off unlike the other one. they're going to try the two dulcinaites and the peasant girl and Sean Connery is put on the jury along with the abbot and the dulcena night guy like Ron Perlman's hand is backwards which was a really nice like bit of uh it's like broken and completely backwards which is a really gross but like interesting partners like how how long he was tortured and the Dolsonite guy's like I didn't kill the other one who's like coherent he's like I didn't kill anyone. I was a Dolsonite.

And he's like, he's like, damn right, I killed him. I'll kill all of you. And he just like starts yelling. I loved it. He just fucking flips. Kind of the coherent Dolsonite guy kind of reminded me of Brian Blessed. Yeah, he's just very big

and boisterous. And so they're just declared to be guilty. And Sean Connery's like they are heretics, but the Dolson guy didn't kill him because I'm right. And then, he like explains everything they just get a false confession out of the other dolson I guy anyway he's like I'm I'm too fat to be tortured what he says he's like I'll confess and uh he's like well that

didn't last long I think because Sean Connery oh yeah he does explain everything and like that for some reason makes the papal embassy really mad so they leave like storm out like I cook with a pizza I'm out of here and then just like chow Bella, and they leave. No, it was you, Fredo. Father Alfredo. Father Alfredo, I know it was you. Brother Linguini

at Cooka de Pasta. I send it the Kazana into space. I don't have to pay the taxes. RIP, Ty Nealon Musk. So basically, the pretense of this movie is over because now the papal embassy is gone. So then we go back to the choir,

Librarian's not looking too good, keeled over dead in the middle of the choir. Sean Connery is basically under arrest at this point, and he like slips away in the chaos, goes back into the library and it's like, okay, we're going to figure this hidden door thing out. It goes in there and then we find Brother Yorga

sitting in there being creepy. And then they have their battle of wits. And he pours two goblets of wine and says, where is the poison? The battle of wits has begun. It begins when you choose and we both, lick our fingers on this book.

That doesn't have green goop all over at all, totally. Where's the book, goop? Only our fingers will tell after we drink our merry wine. Inconceivable. Have you read Aristotle?

Morah. This movie had it out for Aristotle. Yeah, he really doesn't like Aristotle. I think Aristotle was also like an intentional choice because that was a big divide between like all of philosophy and natural science is basically just the study of Aristotle at this point. Same thing in the Muslim world.

Since Yoga is blind, he can't see that Sean Connery puts a glove on when he's handling the book because of course Sean Connery's already figured this out and he has already told us that the book is poisoned at this point. And Yorker says, like, you would have made a fine librarian. And then they talk a little bit more about how laughing is bad.

And then Yorga's like, yoink and runs off with the book. Which you would think Sean Conner would be able to catch him, but he gets away. He's got to get all memorized. So then we go outside where they're going to rotisserie chicken the people and ask them if they're going to like renounce. And also like, I think it's implied that the peasant girl cannot speak. Yeah. She was like passed out or something. Like she's like slumped over. I'm like,

did you torture her into subconscious or unconsciousness? It's not clear. No. Well, she was in custody all night. The peasants show up to watch the burning of the steak. And at the time, the library catches on fire because of Yorga running around. And he's like, ah, I'm going to burn everything. Well, before that, we find him. Sean Connery finds him, and he's, like, eating the pages. Full red dragon.

And he's like, no one can know this information. Again, commentary on librarianship. Set it on fire. And he does the thing where he's like, where the bad guy's on fire, but he's like running around. He's like, ah, and he's like running down the stairs.

Don't try it, Attic. And so the Inquisitions outside, they're burning Ron Perlman. And then they're like, holy shit, the Abbey's on fire. Because books, turns out, burn really well. Major structural flaw of libraries, in my opinion, filled with flammable material. We should get rid of them. And so a bunch of the brothers run off. And Sean Conner is like, so go, I'll be, you have to save herself.

and the peasants are like oh hey there's like a lot fewer people here maybe we should start throwing shit at the Inquisition and get our girl back and he was like you dare challenge the Inquisition I'm going to instead of going inside the priory get in my carriage and drive off

again we all make bad decisions in the heat of the moment and then he fucking gets pushed over a cliff and gets fucking just like straight stabbed like multiple things through his chest bond like it was gnarly

I accidentally watched that twice because I like went to rewind something and then like went too far back and just at the moment where you like falls on the spikes I was like really didn't need to see that twice but thank you.

It was so Argento it was beautiful and surprise Sean Connery's fine and he has like a handful of scrolls that he doesn't want to let go to hug it so. Yeah there was actually a really beautiful moment of him like surrounded by the fire with like all of these books

and you can sort of like see his internal machinations of like what do I say? What do I do I just let myself die here? Is this this collapsing around me? Like I thought it was some really good acting on John Connery's part in that little bit. Yeah. And they decide to leave because they're not going to help with cleaning up the abbey. They got to get back to England. This is sounds like it's your problem and they leave.

Fuck those mocks. Fucking assholes. I mean, what else is? England's supposed to do? Help people. Classic fucking run. Burn your library and leave. Yeah.

I mean, that's colonialism for you. Yeah, exactly. Then we have the final scene, which is they're riding off on horses and the peasant girl comes up to Edsel. Again, doesn't talk, which makes me think she is feral and mute. And she's like, hey, you want to touch my titties again? And Edso's like, hmm. And Sean Conner is like, well?

And he's like, hmm. And he, like, hmm, hmm. And he, like, rides off. And then he, like, turns back and goes, hmm. He's like, I'm Christian Slater and I'm 15. I don't want him to do. I love boobies, but they're still scary. What do I do about them titties?

I want to touch them, but they're still scary. So he becomes Valsail. He's Migtow. He literally goes his own way. Yeah, I like how it's like, away. She was my only earthly love and I never knew her name. And then the fucking movie ends and I'm like, you all never knew her name. What the fuck. You had your fucking chance, man. You had so many chances. And you blew it. Well, like, there's like a whole chapter in the book because as I was slipping through I saw,

like there's this whole thing about where he learns the importance of names. Like this movie did kind of like remove the important, like the semiotics from it. So I'm assuming that has more weight in the book. And then this one is just like, and I didn't know her name. And you're like, oh, okay. It's still a two hour long movie. It was a whack note to end on is really what it was for me. I was like, wait, this was where the deeper meeting was supposed to be because

you're leaving. I don't get it. Yeah, like I'm assuming it has more weight in the book. It's really no goodwill hunting. I'll tell you that. Yeah, no, if they had Matt Damon and Batfleck writing this shit, like... Yeah, it's no goodwill hunting at all. It's no goodwill hunting.

I'm looking at the credits and these are all Italians, so yeah, it's an Italian-made movie. Oh, no, because the book ends where he's in a scriptorium. Fucking scriptorium again. And he's talking about it being so cold. And it ends with, it is cold and this scripturium. My thumb aches. leave this manuscript. I do not know for whom. I know no longer know what it is about.

Statt, Rosa, Pristina nomina nuda, tenemos. And that's how the book is. Not nuda. Do you think he can like tell changes in the weather with his thumb? I hope so. Yeah. Where the fuck has he been putting his thumb? Yeah. Not in the present place. Oh, okay. Carnal favors.

Car, car, carnal favors. Carmel Favors. Just remix that. That'll... So apparently Brother William dies in the plague, which is sad. How did I sometime? Yeah. I'm seeing no mention

of our little lady. It would make sense if she was just like a win and insert just for the movie. It might. It might be. she was less than a character no she's definitely in the book because edso fucking is like a big plot point in the book but not

relevant to the library metaphors and everything yeah it doesn't even mention her at all in this I think we're learning something about umberto echo maybe I don't see because it's kind of just

going like crazy and cold. Yeah, no, it doesn't mention him touching her tits on the road. So that must have been. Bummer. Yeah. No more titty touching. Like it literally has the line about like, you know, I hope God received his soul well or whatever about brother William. Like that's straight from the book.

I just saw it. But this is a very dudes heavy movie. Sausage Fest. I mean, it is monks. Yeah. With one set of titties. And titties. And they're not marries.

You see one merry titty, I think. Do we? I think she's nursing Christ. Oh, that makes sense. On the statue. That's sacred titty. That's holy titty right there. One and a half sets of titty.

Can we get a high echo sacred tities? Snake titties. So yeah, that was the name of the rose in 1986, starring very young. I'm so curious as to what the title of this episode is going to be. Sacred Tiddies, obviously. I was like, it shouldn't penetrate the library, but I think now it's obviously going to be sacred tities.

We're getting banned for copyright. We're going down. We're taking the whole podcast with us. Thank you to our nun sponsors. And your sacred tities. And your sacred tities. God bless America. Good night.