librarypunk - 032 - Article Finder Network

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

We’re joined by the brains behind the Article Finder Network (https://twitter.com/article_finder) to talk about their massively popular new project, how library twitter got weird about it, and John Bagford.    https://twitter.com/article_finder https://twitter.com/LauraMorreale https://twitter.com/leoba   References: “Guerilla Open Access Manifesto” The General Index: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02895-8  Diego Gomez: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/09/support-diego-gomez-and-join-global-open-access-movement   Unpaywall: https://unpaywall.org/  https://www.libkey.io/ John Bagford asides: Cut/Copy/Paste: Fragments from the History of Bookwork|Paperback https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bagford

This episode of Library Punk is brought to you by The Concept of Gambling. Get into gambling today. Activate your free trial at your local bar porch by screaming the promo code Punk at the other patrons. That's P.U.N.K. Try it today. My name is Justin. I'm a Skalkom librarian. My pronouns are he and him. I'm Sadie. I am an IT systems administrator in a public library, and my pronouns are she, they. I'm Carrie. I'm a health sciences librarian and my pronouns are she her and there's a cat on the screen. We have cats. Big cat fans here.

I'm Dot. I'm a special collections curator and my pronouns are she her. Awesome. I'm Laura. I'm a medieval historian and I live in Washington, D.C. That helps. Yay. So thanks so much for coming on. I invited you on after library Twitter got on my nerves because we are here to talk about your Twitter account. This episode is Twitter review. Welcome to the episode of Twitter review. Wait, are we just like critiquing their Twitter? Like your Twitter shows promise, but can you use more jokes. Eight out of ten tweets. Thank you. That pick up? Good.

I'll use it later. Also, I've just been fidgeting with it. Yeah, so you two started a Twitter account called, what is? Article Finder Network. Mm-hmm. But before we get to that, I have a... Enemy of the Pod. You're not...

Today's Enemy the Pod is... What's his name? Roger Sean Feld from... That guy. Yeah. Who normally is very thoughtful. more or less, but he tweeted out because Spark is putting in comments for the SEC against the merger of the Clairvay acquisition of ProQuest.

And then he just did a bunch of tweets where he said, yeah, but if there's a monopoly, wouldn't a duopoly be better? Same difference, dude. Yeah. Slippery slope is what I have to say there. Like, slippery slope. Yeah, it reminded me of when I had to take a history of ideas class, and someone picked the topic capitalism, which is really ambitious for an undergraduate presentation. But he just talked about Coke and Pepsi for the whole time.

And I'm like, yeah, dude, you got it. Competition. So anyway, that was it. Enemy of the pod. So, Dot and Laura, thanks for indulging my rant against Skitchin people. Thanks for coming on. You started the article Finder Network. I know there's a tweet about how it got started,

but could you tell me a bit how it got started and what led to you launching this Twitter account? Sure. So there's sort of an ongoing conversation that comes up over and over and over again in our sort of corner of the world, which is we're medievalists. we're both medievalists.

And so a lot of the people that we are in contact with are also medievalists. And like every other part of academia right now, a lot of people are not getting jobs. They have a lot of people who have been in academia and who sort of still want to do the work. But part of the deal is if you have a job or if you're a student, you have access to the library. And then once you are no longer a student or you no longer have that full-time job, then you no longer have access to the library. but a lot of people still want to keep doing their work. And I know it's not, this is not just the thing that happens for medievalists.

This is like across the board. And so Laura, this was last Sunday. This was very recently. I was thinking about it. I think it was just a week and a half ago. Laura was tweeting about this and I don't know if you want to say a little more or add to what I said. Certainly. You know, I'm an independent scholar myself, but I have been working for a while on putting forth some of the,

issues that independent scholars have. And I've talked to many, many other medievalists. And this, unfailingly, is the number one problem that people express to me, that they're like, look, you know, okay, fine. I understand that I didn't get, you know, the tenure track position or I didn't get even the job at the, you know, highly funded school. But I still want to continue to do my work. And, you know, I can't, I can't get access. I can't get the kind of access that I'd like. You know, what comes out in these conversations is not only the frustration with not being able to do your research, but the sense of illegitimacy that comes out when you have to, you know, steal your friend's password or, you know, get around that kind of access. And not only does it make you feel that you're, you know, illegitimate as a researcher, but certainly as a scholar and as a participant in, you know, academia. So those are all things that are contrary to us moving forward in terms of, you know, independent scholarship and working outside of the institutions.

So, you know, Dot had this fabulous idea and brought it up. And I'm not sure how you worked out all the details, but it went great. I'll let you take it from there. Yeah, I'm thinking about this. So the thing that always sort of comes up and that came out of the conversation that Laura started was the institution, the institution. need to do something, like the funding agencies did to do something, and it's all very high level. And I was just thinking, we have this conversation and nothing, maybe little things happen, but it's not like there's a big move. And I'm like, but right now on this Sunday,

there are people who need, who are like, I want this article right now and I don't want to pay 50 bucks for it. Or maybe it's not even that. Like, you know, I've been photocopying articles for people from print things that are on the shelf in the library. And those that you can't even buy them out of the, even if you have access to like the digital, the digital resources, not everything is in there too. So I was like, well, what if we can do something right now that will help address this issue? And I think I was, I think I was like aware that there was the hashtag that I can have PDF hashtag, but it's never really been used.

So my first thought was like, oh, a hashtag. But a hashtag, you sort of have to, you have to, it takes effort to follow a hashtag. Like you have to search for the hashtag. Whereas an account, you can follow an account and the tweets will just show up. And it's kind of easy to go to an account and you can see all the tweets. And I was like, well, what if somebody, you know, what if somebody made an account? And then I was like, I could make an account. And it's actually an old account because I used to make bots.

and I still have bots that I made. So I had an existing account already. And I was like, well, nobody follows this bot. So I'll just take the bot and rip it out and I'll do this other thing instead. And so that's what I did. You know, I made a little icon. I went to an icon, make your own icon website. And I made an icon.

And I was like, I can call it this. So it was really, it was like something I did very quickly, but it was based on this sort of frustration after a long time of thinking about it. So, and the response was really nuts and insane. So I don't know if we want to, if we want to say more about sort of how it got started or if we just want to move on to the like what the response was. Yeah, well, you started this. I mean, the account is old, but you started this new project, what, two weeks ago?

Yeah, it was like a week and a half. It was on Sunday. Right. So nine days. What are we going on day? You officially started it like two weeks ago? Did you plan it much before that? No, it was absolutely, it was absolutely spur of the moment. I just was like, somebody should do something. I do this. And we all work in libraries. Well, Laura doesn't work in library. But there's often a lot of planning and we have to plan and we have to have meetings. And I was just like, I'm just going to do it and see what happens. It was kind of like that. Like, if people don't like it, then they won't follow it. And if people like it, hopefully it will work.

Yeah, but then you also have to deal with, well, as we found out, you also have to deal with library Twitter. I never actually every Twitter before. That was, yeah, that was a little weird. It was, it was odd because in fact, I mean, we all know each other, the admins on it. And we all know that we're well-meaning, you know, sort of nice people who, you know, who are not trying to, pull one over on anybody. And so, you know, the initial, when we got some initial sort of negative responses of people saying, congratulations, you just invented interlibrary loan. I think, I mean, I was certainly taken aback and, and just sort of felt like, I think maybe they don't quite understand, you know, understand what it is that we're trying to achieve. Yeah, like, people don't understand that there are gaps in what interlibrary loan. Like, that was like

one of my early, and there are gaps that inner library loan has. Like, it's, people wouldn't do this if they didn't know that there are gaps in inner library loan. It's not like something like innocently and dumbly gone about. Yeah. Well, and like you said the immediacy of it, like ILL takes time. So, if you really need an article within the next couple of days, yeah, like, you can go through multiple avenues even. Imagine that. And even good ILL takes time, especially if you're working on a weekend or something or you're working at an odd hour. Because especially I work with like a lot of students, especially in the health sciences who if you're a working nurse or whatever, you might have odd hours or something like that where you, you know, if you need something immediately, you're working

oddly or if you need something kind of more odd or more difficult to find that might not be in, you know, your standard way of getting something, especially if you're working in indigenous studies or things like that that can be complicated or if you're doing any kind of internationally based research, that can be something that might be inaccessible to you through standard ILL. Yeah. And we've had, I know that there are a lot of people who follow the account who aren't, who aren't in the U.S., who aren't in Europe, who are in other parts of the world, where they don't have the same kinds of access that we have. And the other weird thing about, it is I was you know my initial reaction is like well why aren't you following the account so you can

help people find these things like you're talking about you're very helpful you're this helpful ILO librarian so why aren't you asking people to send you know to send you their stuff instead of complaining about that there's now this Twitter account like just don't follow the Twitter account if it makes you know if it makes you unhappy so it was really weird it was weird my first experience with that kind of that kind of reaction yeah and these are people who would who would support sihub if you ask them these are people who think they're cool but then they're like would you stiffing on my turf and uh iLL did you and by the way iL people do amazing work and i love our iL and i always oh same we all love iLL here iL is amazing yeah it's just not what we were talking about

and so yeah like you're not part of this conversation If I can say, too, from the scholars' perspective, obviously, you know, we love ILL, and, you know, I certainly have written thank you notes to the ILL person at where I did my graduate work. But when you become an independent scholar, I've spoken to many people who have said, I would buy access, digital access. If I could, I could, I would spend lots of money doing that. So it's not a question of people not understanding the systems. It's a question. It's a question. question of, you know, severe amount of sort of gatekeeping that goes on, that doesn't have to go on, right? And so, so, so people are, are relatively desperate at this point. Yeah. Did we, could we explain what article finder is? Oh, yeah, for sure. Let's, let's, uh, let's do an explanatory comma or an m-dash, whatever. So the article finder, we've already been talking about it. Um, the idea of the article finder network is, it's a Twitter account. And if, There is an article or a chapter or even a book or something that you need.

You can send out the citation as much of it as you have and at article underscore finder. And that will alert us. There are three mods. There's me and Laura. And then Anna is our third, our third mod. And we will retweet it. And as of right now, we have 9,267 followers, which blows my mind. because we only launched.

That's like a thousand people every day, although we actually got most of them on the first couple days. And we will retweet it to all of those people. And hopefully somebody will see it and they will say, at least this is what happens with me. I'll be like, oh, I have five minutes. Let me look in the, you know, in the OPEC at my institution and see if I have that.

Oh, I have it. And then I'll do it. And I have to say, like there have been times when I've done that and I've gone to reply to say, I'm going to DM this to you and somebody else has already done it where I have. So this is like, it can be really quick. It's not always really quick, but it can be really quick. And it's just like amazing.

I don't think we have a huge. There's not like huge numbers that are coming through, but I feel like people are excited and it's pretty neat. So that's what article finder does. It's just the network of people who well follow this account. Well, get ready. You're getting the library. You're about to get the library punk bump.

Yeah, I was going to. say you're going to get like five whole followers from appearing on this. Bring it. Bring it. We'll take them. That's great. Yeah. And there's lots of other things like this.

And we'll go into the history in a little bit. But yeah, the ICAN has PDF has been around. I don't know if a lot of people know about this, but SciHub has like a signal service where if you're on signal and you follow SyHub, you send them a DOI and it just texts you the PDF back. So even if SciHub is blocked in your country, you can still get it that way, which is really cool. But yeah, it's this long tradition of I was reading through a chapter I wrote years ago, like four years ago, about cloud computing and piracy.

And I found something that Elsevier claimed back then, which was that every download that they have equals 11 reads in their estimation. so that they estimate for every download, people are sharing the PDF with their colleagues 11 times. I don't think that's true, but it's a funny metric. This was a time when Elsevier Head really outlandish, like marketing people, and they just really liked stirring the pot.

That or I've just blocked them all, and I don't hear this anymore, but yeah, there used to be a lot of really weird takes that would come out of Elsevary, and they would just make these wild claims that made no sense. So I want to talk about like academic piracy history. So like to put this in context, because like none of this is new.

You know, there's like 18th century newspapers that were called like the pirate, which would reprint journal articles in printed form and other places. So the United States was like notorious for this. So the United States like did not sign on to the burn agreement for a really long time. which is a copyright, an international copyright agreement. So we didn't do this until, like, after the Civil War. And so we were kind of the ones that were constantly pirating novels. We were constantly pirating academic papers.

It was a big thing that we did all the time. And we just did the thing that, you know, China does now, which is they show you an identical thing, you know, like a mentally. And they're like, what? It's entirely different. I don't know what you're talking about. It's a mentally, not a Bentley. And, yeah, we did that for a couple hundred years until it, We were an industrial power.

We're actually still really bad about that with fashion. We pirate clothing styles all the time. That's why you can buy shoes with four stripes on them. Anyway. Shoes with what? Shoes with four stripes on them. Fashion trademarking and logoing is still really easy to get around. And clothing styles and designs is really easy to essentially pirate and steel.

And like US manufacturing and clothing companies. It's like essentially like fashion design piracy is, and copyright is very easy to do. Fun facts. Yeah. Fun facts with Carrie. I'm going to die someday, like maybe sooner than you think. There were also big shadow libraries in the Soviet Union.

So a lot of scientific papers that were embargoed for whatever reason from getting into the Soviet Union. These things were photocopied. A lot of these libraries went defunct after the fall. Soviet Union. They also used to smuggle in sheet music. Mm-hmm. Because they had sheet music and bargos. And regular music. Yeah. Which sometimes they would... The X-ray, lathe prints. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You get the cool X-ray records, the X-ray vinals. Also, if you've ever seen, like, how people make copies of vinyl records, they make a mold,

and then they just keep putting more vinyl into the mold and then... Yeah, that's not a very good way to do it. You lose a lot of sonic quality by doing that, unless you're using a master. I don't have a sonic drop. Yeah. For good reason. Because you know what else he wears? Gloves and shoes. No clothes.

What kind of a sick purve does that? So, in the 2000s at some point, I think around 2010, we have library Genesis. I think maybe in the 2000s in the aughts, we have the library Genesis. And then after that, we get SciHub built on top of it, which is in 2011. And of course, SciHub does a lot of things that will have to, like getting automated access and pulling articles from other places, using credentials that people have donated. And of course, people claim these credentials were stolen. And there's really, who cares?

Some of them were definitely donated. And you don't really need that much to build something like SyHub, which has always been my contention that if Syhope was shut down, someone else could build another one very quickly. But what you were talking about with, with, you know, the Article Finder Network, you were almost saying word for word things from Aaron Swartz's Gorilla Open Access Manifesto.

Here's a quote, those with access to these resources, students, librarian, scientists, you've been given a privilege. You get to feed at this banquet of knowledge while the rest of the world is locked out, but you need not, indeed morally, you cannot. Keep this privilege to yourselves.

You have a duty to share it with the world, and you have trading passwords with colleagues, filing, download requests for friends. I don't know if I cut something off there. But he was saying, you know, just keep doing what you're doing. And so around, I think 2011, a lot of things happened at the same time. I think that was when ICAN has PDF started. It was also when Aaron Schwartz was prosecuted. A lot of people think that this was like pursued by JSTOR for a really long time.

It wasn't. JSTOR kind of dropped out pretty quickly and just, I think, settled very early. on. I was just like, no, we don't care. The problem with always doing any kind of piracy is that you might be the one person who's going to be made an example of. And the U.S. has very restrictive copyright laws, which led to things like, and we've exported them to other countries, which led to cases like Diego Gomez, which I believe was also 2011. He copied a, or he got a copy of a master's thesis from someone else while he was in graduate school and was facing prison time, because we were like, well, you have to enforce copyright.

This was a weird case, though, because it was the author of the thesis who was actually going after him, which was a very strange thing. Well, in terms of timing, if I may say, I think that, you know, the pandemic itself has put into relief the importance of digital access. And, you know, there was a tweet today sort of as a follow-up of the article finder account, saying that people were sad that we were no longer getting access to Hathie trust from various inroads, right? And that everyone was so used to that, that sort of special period of time where we could have access. And so I do think that even those people who do have great access are now starting to understand what happens if you don't, if you can't get into a library, if you,

you know, if you don't have the access that you want, how it limits you. So I think this moment might be a very propitious one for moving forward with these questions. Yeah, the Emergency Temporary Access Service from Hathie Trust. Yeah, we let that lap pretty quickly because it was a pain to keep re-verifying. But yeah, as you mentioned earlier, it's real tough for people who are academics who want to keep doing their research in hopes of maybe getting a position one day. And building up your CV, it's really difficult to do that if you can't. access research, especially easily.

True. Or even just feeling like you can sit at the table with the rest of the grownups, right? You know, you want to bring high quality research to the conversation. And if you don't have access to those materials, then you can't do the kind of work that is, that everyone else can. So it's, even if you're not looking for, you know, professional advancement, you just want to do the best work that you can. Yeah. But that really, comes down to a lot of it comes down to convenience as well because for instance I was in a library committee meeting today and you know getting the usual why don't we have access to this journal why don't

we have access to this database and of course the answer is why aren't you using ILL so we can justify this 30,000 dollar journal and also we have no money our budget's been flat that sort of whole conversation was you know why don't we have this it's important in our field that's it's a very privileged position to be talking from because you do have access to extremely fast ILL. We can get ILL in 20, 30 minutes with reprint's desk at our university, which, you know, not every university you can afford, but ours can. So the convenience part is a big part of it. And that's why I wanted to talk a little bit about what publishers are doing to kind of trying to mitigate this journal sharing. Like I mentioned, the one download equals 11 views.

Elsevier wants those views. They want to be able to track everyone who comes to their page. That's an analytics, data analytics. They are also a data analytics company. and also to prove kind of the value. So if they're kind of worried that if there's too much open access out there and views drop too much, people are going to drop their subscriptions, which is true. That could happen. But it's led to all of these weird syndications of content. So maybe one day your Twitter account will get bought up by like a Springer.

And they'll be like, you can syndicate content through article finder network on Twitter. just send in the DOI and we'll syndicate it and we'll send you a single sign on for your institution. But that way it goes to the publisher page. So that's what they've done with ResearchGate. That's what they've done with. And that's kind of the idea of seamless access, RA21, Git FTR. It's got so many names. It's not been implemented very many places.

And underlying it is this sort of fear of unauthorized access, which I think comes up quite a bit. And is a little bit of a red herring? I don't know what you think. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's all, it's sort of beyond, beyond what I think about on a day-to-day. Like, you're a Scallcom librarian, so you think about this a lot.

And for me, I think if there's two things. Well, there's maybe a few things. One, I want to help people get access, and I want to encourage other people to help other people. So the phrase that I used, I think I remember, It's a pretty well-known phase. The mutual, mutual aid.

Mutual aid that I think about this account. And I think I can't have PDF is the same idea. It's this idea of mutual aid. So I will need help finding something and I can tag this account and someone will see it. And maybe next week, that same person will need something and I will have it. And so it's people helping people. So that's one thing. And the second thing is, I don't know what's up with publishers, man.

Like the whole academic publishing system, as far as I can tell, is just like in the toilet and broken. And, you know, we've been talking about this for as long as I've been a librarian for whatever, whatever, whatever. Like, how does this work? So we have, we have, you know, academics who work for universities and who write, who not only write journals, but also are. journal editors and do peer review and it's all part of the system and and it's all done for the publishers and the publishers get all of this free labor and then the publishers turn around and they sell it to the libraries and then nobody can afford it and we've got you know you've got people asking can we you know can we buy it and it's like well we don't have the budget and yet it's all

of this free and then the publishers make all this money. And it really, you know, I will admit to you that I get a thrill every time I see somebody sharing a little PDF because it's like, screw you, publisher. God, I hope my boss doesn't hear this podcast. But like this is really, you know, so you have a whole thing. So I'm happy to participate in this, in this experiment. I don't want to get sued. I don't want anybody to get sued, you know, I hope, I think part of part of what maybe we're hoping to do is to show, you know, these institutions that we've been trying to get, like, you know, the scholarly groups, like the medieval academy, if the medieval academy would offer some kind of service to their members so you can pay X amount of money and you can get, you know, get access,

then we wouldn't, you know, there wouldn't be as many people who had to do this. But right now, what other choice do we have? You know, what are our choices? Our options are limited. Just the day that you actually have to pay to get your own article is a sad day, right? After you've written the article. Oh, yeah, absolutely, right? I did not have access to my own article, so I had to actually go pay to have my own article. Yeah. And that's like, by the way, something that can be negotiated with author rights.

So if you know your author rights going into things, sometimes that can't be negotiated with not, which not a lot of people know going into things, which. Yeah. So I've been burned, but not again. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, my feeling on all of this is that, you know, the fact that we have had over 9,000 respondents, you know, within nine days to this, it's a, it's really great ammo to go in and to talk to, I don't know, the NEH, right? Or, you know, the ACLS, right? These, these professional organizations and say to them, listen, this is not, you know, a few people who have this issue. There's people all over the world. And if indeed, I mean, I'm looking at it from a humanities perspective, but in. Indeed, if your job is to support the humanities, look at all these people who need to have this kind of support, right? And they're not asking you for, you know, thousands of dollars tomorrow. They just need to have the kind of access that other people have, right?

Yeah, and I think also the niche the Article Finder Network finds itself in is something that won't go away, even if publishers do get FDR implemented everywhere, do get, get, you know, all of these weird invasive things like that are premised under security, like trackers into easy proxy and to monitor access. That's really to monitor suspicious downloads out of the institution. So if you have too many downloads coming out of your institution, the vendor's going to call the library dean or whatever and say, we're going to throttle your access if you don't find out who downloaded 400 articles from one IP address, or give us the IP address or find out what computer was from. And those kind of threats happen all the time.

And it's really fucked up. That's not a, it's not something, it's not a relationship that libraries should be engaging in, but you don't really have a choice with. It's a very toxic relationship, like the actual definition of a toxic relationship, practically. Yeah, it is. And I don't know how, how we got into this. Do you guys know this, have a sense of like the history of like how this,

how this happened? I think our second episode, we talked about, this is like our fifth episode talking about scholarly publishing in some way. So, yeah, I think I went over like the history

of like consolidation. But yeah, it was kind of in the 50s. Once a lot of post-war funding dried up, then the consolidation happened. Yeah, and that's like when especially

scientific publishing really exploded because there was just a glut of research. search energy, Cold War, explosion. And that's like, especially when medical research took off to. So you see a lot of explosion around that, around then, too. So 50s, 70, it's, et cetera. That's when a lot of that really takes off. Yeah. But I think there's a different explosion kind of happening in the last, I don't know, 20 years since the open access movement, whereas you have a growth of a lot of small open access journals all around the world that can't be tracked. in the same ways that, you know, they're not indexed in web of science.

They're not scopus. Correct. But people are tracking them. Yeah. I'm going to need to go. So thank you very much for the conversation. It was really great talking with you. Great. Thank you.

Oh, thanks for joining us. On that note, Carl Malamud recently just released the general index, which might be challenged. I'm not sure what's going to happen. but he is also part of the Aaron Schwartz story because he did the pacer crawler for pacer documents and he was putting them online. But now he has this corpus of materials that are no more than five consecutive words of, I think, 100 million journal articles so that people can do textual analysis on them. And then the textual analysis will spit out what articles the text was pulled from.

So his argument is it's transformative the same way like Google Reader or Google Books argument, which is good precedent. So hopefully that challenge will stand. And as far as I know, he's very rich so he can just drag out the court battles for a long time. Same thing as the Internet Archive. They just, they've got money behind them. They can just drag out the legal argument as long as they need to. That would be nice to have money. Have an actual patron.

Yes, I'm open enough for patrons. Anybody listening has them. Carrie, you mentioned Libkey. What's that? Yeah, so Libkey is kind of similar to what you kind of put on there with GetFTR, which is, but they work slightly differently and are kind of handled a little bit differently. But Libkey is essentially a full text retrieval tool, which draws. from, it's basically, it draws to a link resolver and basically allows for easier full text retrieval from

things like Wikipedia publisher sites and PubMed using a browser extension and we just started using it as of like this year, as of May technically. And, but yeah, you don't have to log in. So you

just associated with your institution that you you want to get access from. So if you have multiple institutions that you're working from, like say a hospital system or corporation, you can select the institution that you want to be affiliated with while you're browsing. And then whenever you're ready to get full text, you select the little raindrop. I keep calling it a teardrop, but I call it a raindrop with a little flame in there. And that's like what you click to get the full text from. And then it asks you to log into that institution. So unlike GetFDR, which is tied to seamless access, which tetheres you to a single institution while you're browsing. This one allows you to change very easily between institutions

while you're browsing. So it's really nice, especially for using PubMed as a health sciences librarian. That was the thing that was like, gimmee, we need this whenever we were trialing it. And so, yeah, and then it has some other products tied in with it, but Libkey, No Mad is actually the thing. And then they have an I.O. which is a DOI dropper, kind of like SyHub. Or you can make a bookmarklet for SciHub. Exactly. And so you just click the bookmarklet and it takes you.

We can like market this to our scholars as like legal Syhub. So if you like Syhub but want to do it the legal way, here's how you can do it. That's so lame. It really is. It's like it's like the, it's like the, it's like the radio edit of a rap song. It's the good Christian way. Yeah, it's like that. This is the wet and gushy of Sihau.

It really is. It's the wet and gushy sky up that's limky. But honestly, nomad fucking whips, I'm a huge fan of it. Like, as a PubMed user, not having to go through our easy proxy to access PubMed to get full taxes, like, sign me up for life. I'm a shill. I'll chill for it. We spend a lot of money on Primo to make like seamless access happen. Yeah.

And it doesn't work very well. So I just still use my bookmarklet for my easy proxy. Yeah. So hopefully they don't stop supporting our easy proxy because that's what I use. Yeah, but yeah, PubMed gets a lot easier with Lib Kiayo. And also when you're using Wikipedia, if you scroll down to your references at the bottom, it'll connect you to the full, like to a full text for the references at the bottom of a Wikipedia article. That's pretty cool.

This is Libby. What? Libby. Yeah. Libby do so. Yeah. It's actually pretty rad for like doing scholarship, like for teaching Wikipedia as a scholarship tool. Mm-hmm.

So for people who do stuff like that, it's kind of cool. Honestly, it's like a pretty neat product. And I think it's a better alternative to the Get FDR that like seamless access was trying to do. Yeah. It's more flexible. And also a cool thing. If you do have unpaywall, if you are on... Yeah, it ties in with that.

If you are on your university network, unpaywall is an easy way to just get straight to the PDF. So if you're on like a publisher page, unpaywall will, for some reason, it just recognizes you have access. It doesn't care how you have it. So you just click the unpaywall button. You go straight to the PDF.

It's kind of amazing. So that's a good thing to do even if you have access. But if you don't have access, and I'm sure, dot, you got a lot, you got a lot of tweets from people telling you to use on paywall. Because obviously you didn't know. I mean, clearly, you couldn't have known. I don't know anything, really.

I've never thought about this before. I actually think the weirdest, I forgot about this, but I think the weirdest response that we got was the person who said it was the tech bro approach. Do you guys see that tweet? It was really weird. That doesn't surprise me. No, but if it's someone I follow, I'm blocking them.

It's really weird. And I was like, what about making a network of people helping each other makes you think it's tech. Yeah, like, who's profiting off of this? They immediately think of Uber, I'm sure. Maybe so. Maybe that's it. But yeah, nobody's making money off of this. So it is actually mutual, like, help as opposed to Uber, which pretends to be mutual community help and is not.

Yeah, Uber is exploitation. This is just, like, bros helping bros in, like, the. Yeah, braves helping bras. Yeah. J requested that. Misbehaving. So we usually try to wrap up with like action-oriented things. And of course, you've already done the action-oriented thing, which is to make the action-finder network.

But, you know, permanent solutions. You mean article finder network? What did I say? Action Finder Network Which sounds like a very explicit I'm looking for some action Can I have some academic action? It's a different kind of a Twitter account.

Yeah. I am not admin. No, that's the article Finder Network's after dark account. It's our private account. Yeah. For the spicy PDFs. It's actually like the RTFs.

You only send RTFs on this account. It's ASCII. Art. What's how I'm going to do it now. I'm going to be thinking about that. Yeah, you should. Anyway. The Action Finder Network.

It's when you, it's when you, want to hook up with people on Twitter and just get around to it instead of being clever all day. Yeah. With assy. I want to get sassy. Wow. You're really proud of yourself for that one. I was going to give you a moment to compose yourself.

Anyway, permanent solutions we'd like to see who needs to be involved, which was Laura's question, which is a good closing question, which is, you know, we've talked about open access a lot. It's out there. We've done several episodes. You can go listen to them. I wanted to mention green open access is available now.

And if you think, you know, article finding your network is too inefficient, if you can put your work in a repository, people can find them a lot quicker. Maud. Mon loves Green O.A. And also, if you get grant support,

for your scientific research from the government, from the U.S. government, you are required to put it green open access. Thanks, Obama. That's the only good thing you did. But that is one good thing, especially if you're doing scientific research. There's also PubMed Central, which is a great federal research repository that you can put your research in for scientific

researchers in biomedical research. If you're too cool for your institutional repository. Yeah, and for humanities, there's humanities comments, which is available as space for humanities researchers to put there. I think probably preprints and also, you know, is this something that, so my knowledge of publishing is not great, but you were talking earlier, Carrie, about author. Author rights, yeah. You can negotiate. You can negotiate your IR depot. in author rights.

Yeah, so that's something that everybody who's publishing can do. Yeah, be aware of your author rights and responsibilities, and you can negotiate what you can put in an IR, an institutional repository, as we call it in the business, in your contract for publishing. So that is negotiable. I've done it with everything I've published. So, yeah, also social sciences, you have Sociarchive. That's another good repository to put things in. So, yeah. You really have so many options.

Yeah. Find a repository. Put it in there. Put her in there, partner. I don't have a drop for that. Yee-ha. But yeah, Greenaway is just really important and so is knowing your author rights. I'm going to be giving a presentation on it tomorrow that probably no one's going to show up to because it wasn't very well marketed.

But, yeah, I did spend today building that presentation. So even if you are stuck with a, click through agreement, for instance, where you can't, where you're not getting a contract from the publisher, you're just supposed to click through. You can always email the editor, and you can always also email them an addendum. Spark has an addendum that you can use.

And it will say, no matter what we've agreed to, I retain the right to put my work in a repository. And then you sign it, you send it to the editor and say, sign this or else you can't have my paper. And really, I mean, there are definitely publishers who are behind times and don't understand like preprints and don't understand authors addendums and don't understand self-archiving. And, you know, you got to do its best for your career.

It's tough out there. It's not your responsibility to change the system. But these things are surprisingly negotiable. And I think a lot of little steps to get to the big, the big tipping point is, you know, it's just how it's going to happen. It's just there's going to be a lot of people doing a lot of little things. And then one day we're going to wake up and go. oh, everyone's doing open access now,

and they're doing it in a way that wasn't the Coalition S spend $9,000 on an article processing charge. Yeah, it wasn't, oh, what do you know? It wasn't through APCs. Yeah. Turns out there were other ways we could have been doing this, that were actually way, way cheaper and more equitable and created more jobs.

So I think one day we'll hit that tipping point, and it'll go kind of quick. Unfortunately, we're also going to hit a tipping point with like carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. So it's really going to be like balanced out. That's a tipping point. We don't have to think about that today. I can't wait for all the points to tip.

Please know. It's just going to be one runaway train after another for the rest of our lives. Hey, we've already hit peak oil. So I mean, party. Sweet. I'm ready for peak open access. Yes. Thank you for dragging us back on.

Oh, and we had two medievalists on and I didn't get to use the coronal favors drop. Carnal favors. Have you seen the name of the rose? Yes. Okay. I figured every medievalist has. Not only a medievalist, but a manuscript scholar. So very much into the physicality of me.

Wait, don't you mean war manuscripts? I've never heard that. I'm saying that all the time now. How have I never heard that? Hashtag feminism. I love it. That is very hashtag feminism. Yeah, people used to ask me when I was younger, are you a librarian?

And I was like, no, I'm a library, Andy. I was like, I can handle being in a feminized profession and things. It's not really. One, there's never a line for the men's room at the conferences, not once ever. So I have nothing complained about. I hate library conferences for that reason. I don't have any hobbies that involve, like, waiting in line for ladies' rooms. Like, I like experimental music.

Like, well, I mean, there's, like, there's, like, a hole in the ground somewhere, usually. But still, like, I fucking hate that. Like, I hate library conferences because, like, I can never. I'm always like sprinting out of the conference hall to go take a shit. So anyway, cool. But oh, I saw a really cool manuscript. You mean, or a woman manuscript. Yes, yes.

It was a will manuscriptist, a will manuscriptarian. And it was about this guy, God, what was his name? Jay was in it. He would remember. But they were doing this really cool. research on a guy who was a shoemaker and decided to get into like the book trade around mid-18th century and maybe early 18th century and he decided to start like collecting title pages and like bindings and just all this weird stuff and and he would cut it up and put him into like

scrapbooks it wasn't they didn't use the word scrapbooks but he if I found his name I don't want to spend time looking it up right now. But he made all these really cool things and they've been digitized now. This person's research was around it. And then apparently people who studied manuscripts for a long time afterwards, like just loved shitting on this guy for like daring to cut books up in an age before photocopiers. So there was a great quote the presenter gave,

which was like a man who is capable of doing this to a book is capable of anything. Oh my god. Like murder. Oh, is that the skin book? Yeah? No. I've never seen a good skin book in real life. I read a book about the skin book. You guys read that book? I think Illinois had the skin book. Jay would know. Why do you have to get pneumonia?

Yeah, fucking Jay getting sick. The book about the skin book. Oh, yeah, by Megan Rosenblum. Yeah. And a lot of it takes place in Philadelphia, which is where I am. Maybe I shouldn't say that up. I know if we're saying where we are. Oh.

Yeah, you can say where you want, if you wanted to. You can leave your friends behind. I can dance. If only I didn't tweet so much, I could find this tweet. What was this dude's name? You know how to search for tweets, right? Not very well. Oh.

How do I search for the dude's name that I don't know? Oh, well, that's your problem. problem. Do you know the phrase? I don't remember what I said. I just said something about this dude. Wait, you said it? Yeah. Well, then you can search for your name because you tweeted it. Yeah, I know. I'm looking at my tweets. I just don't know what I tweeted. You don't know how to use advanced search on Twitter? I do know how to use it. Yeah. Then you use advanced search on Twitter. Okay, what, first off, what do I search for? And second, what's my password?

I don't want to work right now. I don't remember. Why am I the only librarian who knows how to search around here? I know how to search? Clearly not. It's just, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, so there he is, John Backford. I'm going to put his Wikipedia article in the notes.

John Beckford. Because he's very interesting dude who, uh, his works. And maybe if I can get a hold of that presentation too, maybe there's a recording or something. It was very cool. I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I need to go to more digital humanity stuff because they're doing really cool, really cool work. So Dot, was there anything you wanted to plug, or do you want people to leave you alone?

I'm obviously going to plug Article Finder Network and Action Finder Network when you get it running. I don't get that running. So I bet I'm actually going back on John Bagford, because that sounded familiar to me. was it Whitney Tritene who was presenting on it? It was like last week, maybe. Yeah, because Whitney Tritene is a, does work on him.

She's got a book out that covers him. There's the book. And that might be the guy. Anyway, for me to plug. I can plug Whitney Trotene's new book. Yes, it is Whitney Tritene. Copy paste, which is great. But it doesn't have much to do with this, except that she does really cool work.

I don't know. What do people normally, what do people normally like plug? If you wanted to plug your personal Twitter or any work you have upcoming or if people need to give you a job, we've had that. No, I'm very lucky that I have a job I like very much. Let's see. My Twitter is Leoba at Leoba and I tweet about medieval manuscripts. I also tweet for the Schoenberg Institute for Manuscript Studies, which is at Sims underscore and on the S-S on Twitter. And so if you like medieval manuscripts that you don't already know, you can go there because we have a lot of manuscripts that nobody knows about

because they aren't beautiful, like the ones in the British Library. But we love them anyway because they're special. Yeah, I think that'll do. Cool. Thanks again for having me time. Thanks so much for coming on. Yeah, this was fun. Good.

Thanks for being here. Awesome. Good night. Good night.