librarypunk - 056 - The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover feat. Kayte

Episode Date: June 15, 2022

Movie night! We watch the sex and violence packed crime drama The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover (1989). It’s got books in it.  https://twitter.com/kayteterry https://twitter.com/FangsPodcast https://www.patreon.com/fangscast  Media mentioned https://www.doubledialogues.com/article/traversing-the-alimentary-canal-peter-greenaways-the-cook-the-thief-his-wife-and-her-lover/ Girls, Guts, & Giallo on Apple Podcasts  You Must Remember This Podcast The Name of The Rose By That Guy Who Wrote The Fascism Essay Everyone Uses | Brows Held High

Okay, do I have an opening? I really don't know. I have absence. That's what I have. Oh, nice. That's a lot of absence, isn't it? You only fill it up to here. You fucking added water and sugar, didn't you? You're supposed to. Oh, that's what you're supposed to do, right? It's gross.

No, you're supposed to. That's how you're supposed to drink it. No, it's better straight. You're doing the bougie nonsense. It's so much better. This is a replica cup from the kind that they would use in like 1890s, French bistros. This seems right for the podcast today. Yeah. No, I actually have good absent, though, and not in the myth of like, ooh, it doesn't have the right kind. No, that's bullshit.

People were just not a lot of opium. It never had a little. But also putting water in it makes it worse. You should spend less money by other, what's the green liqueur, not liqueur, the. Chartreuse. Chartreuse, buy Chartreuse. Chartruse is cheaper and it tastes better and it's the same shit. No.

Yes. I'm right. It doesn't sound as cool. Absinth is delicious. It's like herbie and grassy. That's what charteroose is and it costs like 20 bucks less. My absence is not that expensive. I'm just saying.

You just don't know about absence, I think. Yes. No. I clearly don't drink. I'm going to absence. This is an absence. An absent theme. podcast.

Yes. I'm the one with Oscar Wildhair, Justin. Justin, I swear to God, you in those Lututon sound effects. I haven't added anymore, actually. I've got other stuff. The cat and the duck, chicken. You should do the Michigan

J. Frog. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, he's great. Yeah, he's the best. And a symbol for, like, yeah, like, he made a man insane and completely fall to pieces. I think you can say he was like trans. That too. Maybe. I don't know. He's a symbol.

I'm reclaiming him. Yeah. Yeah. I'm Justin. I'm a Skullcom library. My pronouns are he and him. I'm Jay. I'm a library director.

I can say it now. I don't know if I can say where you. That's my boys, Mondo. Um, and my pronouns are he him. And we have a guest. Would you like to introduce yourself? Yes, hello. I'm Kate.

My pronouns are she, her, or they, them, dealer's choice. And I'm an artist and just all around weird freak. For guests who have like two set, like more than one set of pronouns, we should like a D20 or something like do dice rolls to decide which one we're going to use in each sentence. I would accept that. Gameify. it or whatever the kids say. Jay wrote in the chat, I wasn't trying to be a dick. You could not get me mad on this podcast.

It would be impossible. Okay, you looked frustrated. I always look like that. Was it the absence talk? I'm keeping part of that. Well, I always think I'm going to keep some stuff from the beginning and it never works out. You're paranoid, sexist, and you make fun of the elderly. What is that?

It's bug's bunny talk. talking to Daffy Duck. They make new Looney Tunes now. Oh, that's right. Wow. I'm still... Woke tunes. Woke tunes.

So they put them in space jam? What is it? Soviet Russia? So, anyway, we're here to talk about library stuff. Kind of. Hell yeah. Entirely. It's all about libraries 100% of the time.

So, Ket, no one's going to get that because you can't see. Kate, Kate. Kit kit. Where are you from? What are you doing here? Like, I mean, like, what's your deal? What's my deal?

Well, all right. So I'm an artist. I make work with, like, mostly with fiber and, like, found shit. But I love libraries. I've always loved libraries. When I was a little kid, I think I was like, maybe I was 11 or 12. I let my, I convinced my parents. to let me go to the library every day for summer vacation instead of going to summer camp.

So libraries are always like, yeah. Good deal. Yeah, it was the best. Like I am so not a jock. I don't want to like compete in sports with anyone. I wanted to be left alone. I wanted to read and like look at books in like the scary back corner of my library, which is where all the like occult books were.

And it was definitely haunted in that corner. It's like John Waters talking about the books that he would like to read where it said, C, librarian, before he can actually look at them. Exactly. Yeah, and I just like, a lot of library things, like, end up in my work. I have, like, two typewriters, and I like to research and, like, do archiving shit. And, yeah, so I'm very, like, library friendly, even though I'm not a librarian. We should get some library hostile people on.

Yeah. I'm a librarian ally. Oh, God. The thing we're like, instead of like a safety pin, what would you put on to show that you were an ally to librarians? Oh. You know. Conference ribbon. The people, ALA, and I'm one of these people who get them like three feet long.

I did that my first conference. Like a dictator, yeah. Yeah. They just keep going down. Yeah, I totally did that. Why is it three feet long? What's... Oh, so...

Yeah, I need to know. A lot of library conferences, especially at our main one, the American Library Association, you can get, like, for your, you know, your conference badge that you wear on, like, a dorky,

lanyard thing. You can, there's, like, these, like, sticker ribbons that you can put on, and there's this whole desk of them because it's, like, all of the different sub-organizations and all of the different

round-tations. and then if you're a first-timer, if people will, like, put rogue, unaffiliated ones out there or, like, hashtag, whatever. And then, like, if you're a nerd and, you know, I say this is a person who's done this, you end up getting where it's, like, feet long and it's just dragging behind you as you, as you walk around. Because you got to, like, show all, it's like putting, like, things on a, it's like putting patches on a jacket, but not cool. like a CBS receipt or something. Yes. Library. Exactly. I posted a link so you can see. Thank you.

That's amazing. Yeah, it's a bunch of those, but, you know, all like Daisy Chain together. Uh-huh. Yeah. Is that, I'm not going to ask. That looks like it's in on a urinal. It is. Okay.

Just wondering. That's an ACL 2019. Is that one of yours? Nope. I was not a committee member. Oh. You just found it. Yeah, it was just there.

That person was tired. They're like, fuck this committee. Yeah. The person was 90. So, Kate, let's do plugs up front. Sure. Where are you from? Who are you?

What are you doing in my house? Well, okay, I live in beautiful South Philadelphia. Hey, my best friends in Philly. Yay. Go birds. Yeah, go birds. It's a fantastic city. I love it.

I've lived here for like 12 years. and I also have a podcast that is a Buffy rewatch podcast, Buffy the Vampire Slayer for people who don't know. And it's called Fangs for the Memories because we're dorks and like puns. And we're at Fang's podcast on Twitter. And then we have a Patreon. It's patreon.com slash fangscast. And yeah, we just like talk about nerdy, buffy stuff.

Our motto is that we love Bafi. We love Buffy. I don't know who she is. We love Buffy. Buffy these nuts. Yeah. Buffy, the vampire sluer. And we hate Joss Whedon.

So, like, if anyone is worried about that, we are not Joss fans. Jow's singing out. Yeah. I listened to a couple episodes, but I've never watched Buffy at all. Yeah. So I don't remember anything. But I was listening to a random episode, and I was like, I vaguely remember this plot. It just got into the ether.

Yeah. It was just playing in the background or something. I never really was able to keep up with it. Like, I've tried to watch it, and I'm just like, ugh. This is why you should have me on the Buffy episode, so I just have no idea what's going on. Yeah, I've tried a few episodes, and I just, like, can't do the, the weed end. But one of my best friends from grad school, she showed me a few fun episodes, mainly that involved Spike doing things. or the one where Buffy's like a bad girl and like Les is out in the club by bad girl dancing.

And then the one with the adults when they eat the candy that makes them like actually teenagers and Giles like fucks Buffy's mom on a car or something. That was a fun episode, I have to admit. We just talked about that one, band candy. It's great. Isn't that the plot from the Ovira movie? They put like she puts a spell on the food and everyone gets horny and like all the conservative people in town? No, that's the cook, the thief, the wife, and her lover. Nice segue. Nice.

I'm a professional. We're going to talk about this library movie that everyone mentions in library school, which is the cook, the thief, his wife, and her lover, released in 1989 slash 1990, depending on where you are in the world. Kate, they don't mention this in library school. I was wondering, because they talk about it nonstop in art school. So I was like, cool. Yeah.

That one doesn't surprise. me. I guess we should know this if you're going to, like, work with art students then. Yeah, the, no, I'm, I'm only working with redacted music students, because it's a conservatory. Oh. But. Are you going to call them? Why did you redact it?

Because I haven't. You can use the F word again? No, I'll just say faggot Justin. Like, I'll just do that. No, but, no, because I haven't gotten the go ahead to actually, like, the job ad still up, even though I start in two weeks. Wow. No. Get it together.

Yeah. Academia. Yeah. Kate, the two movies that they always talk about in library school are party girl. It's mainly party girl. And then desk set with Catherine Hepburn. Oh, okay. Well, party girl is like one of my favorite movies.

And I was like I was like excited then also bummed that Louisa has already come on and talked about it because I was like, oh my God. Have you on. Yeah. Well, because I, like, lived in New York and I went to clubs and stuff. And, like, I feel like Parker Posey was, like, a huge inspiration to my, like, early dirtbag life in New York. We can do a recap of the Party Girl TV show. Okay.

Which Justin has watched a few episodes of. I've watched two episodes of it. It's awful. It's dumb. I actually did not know that one existed. Yeah. Which means you didn't listen to our episode because, like, talk about it. Oh, fuck.

This is a challenge. Oh, no. What if I just have a really bad spotty memory? I mean, Justin apparently does. Yeah, what? Where am I? What did I forget? I lost my glasses at a diner today, so I'm like, I'm not doing well.

They're on your face. No, I found him. Oh, nice. I lost them and found them. Good job. Thank you. Go team. Yeah.

The boss baby episode of horror vanguard, not to digress. Two hours. Oh my God. I was listening to it the entire time I was in Boston commuter traffic. A couple weeks ago, it was the perfect environment for listening to that episode. Nice. We've had, yeah, we've had Ash and Kyle on the show because Ash is like a buffy, like a actual Buffy scholar.

Is he? Yes. He has, like, delivered papers about Buffy the vampire slayer. That doesn't surprise me. Right? Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I want him to write a book about goo.

Yeah. It has to be a coffee table book. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder what he could save the goo in today's episode, movie. So what's this movie, Kate, that you made, they made me watch. I, well, Well, okay, the cook, the thief, his wife, and her lover is a disgusting and also a beautiful movie by Peter Greenaway, who is like mostly kind of an art house director.

This is actually considered like his most sort of like, I guess, plot driven movie. A lot of the other ones are like much harder to enter into and they're like more image base, less like plot based. Yeah, Prosper's books is just vibes. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, so he used to be a painter, and then he, like, he said basically that he realized that painting doesn't come with a soundtrack and, like, wanted to kind of, like, find a medium that I think was, like, more active than painting. But he still thinks, like, he thinks that cinema should be, like, an image-based medium and not a text-based medium, which is interesting. And I feel like an interesting thing for us to talk about. Because also this book is a lot about language and text.

You called it a book. Oh, my God. Whoops. Whoops. I don't know. Yeah. It's all coming together. I just keep like an empty spine over my laptop just to like look cool.

So I get confused. Human or book? Oh. Yes. A book made out of human skin. They're overrated. I want the human bone breakfast chair from crime to the future. The breakfaster.

The breakfaster. It looks so uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. Should we talk about the, what do you want to start talking about? Like plot, formalism, the formalism zone. We need to have ash. Whatever.

Yeah. Yeah. We need a. Do you still have it? Hang on. When we had them on? Oh, did you see Arthur Yon? No.

The formalism zone. Yeah. Perfect. I really should rewatch Pay the Ghost. The movie slapped. The movie was actually pretty fun. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the formal elements of this movie are, like, incredibly important.

I just wanted to lick it the whole time. Gorgeous. Yeah, just absolutely incredible. Instead of starting with the formalism zone, though, I'm always interested in, like, to production because like this movie came out, it went to film festivals. And from what I understand, it was offered either an X or an unrated rating. And they went with unrated because of the association with pornography. And then a cut version that was rated R was released to the United States and that made money. Or did it or did the uncut version make it to the United

States and that made a release here? Oh, I'm not sure. I was confused. Yeah, I'm not sure. It's hard with, like, some of these movies are really hard to track, like, what the actual film is. Like, like, like, Caligula. Yeah. Which is the other movie I've seen Helen Mirren's tits in. Right. Um, yeah. And this is like prime Helen Mirren Tits time. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's still prime. White Big Titch. But, um, yeah, it's like all those movies like, uh, Salo, Caligula, Possession. They all, you know, it's like hard to know what was like the right. Oh, the devils. That one. Just listen to that episode. Yeah. Like we don't really know, I guess, if we're like watching the right version or not, which is really sad. Like they get cut up so badly sometimes. Which is why it's great when there's like a re-release of them. Like I just got the new release of crash. Oh, the Criterion one? Yeah. I got that for Christmas. Yeah. So good. So hopefully that's like a nice intact version that I can like trust the editing of and it's not like cut up for I guess people who fainted while they watched this, which seems pretty implausible.

The page stuffing. That one was a little rough. Wait, this movie or crash? Oh, both I guess. Yeah. Yeah, people walked out of this film for sure. There were people who booed. I can understand fainting at this movie because there's some like really gruesome.

some parts where you don't really expecting. Yeah, like stabbing the kid, the fork in the face was kind of like unexpected. I feel like it was one. And especially the fact that like Michael Gambon is so, like it surprises me that like the violence and the whatnot can actually kind of surprise us and come out of no work, considering he's just on in the same level the entire time. He's so elevated the whole time that it says something that things can still stick out. out.

Yeah. I mean, he just like never shuts up, which is like a interesting. I mean, I think it's like a useful character choice, you know, that he just has something to say about everything. And then like his counterpart, the lover, says nothing for like many scenes. Yeah, I loved all the like cruising happening. Like very traditional. I wasn't clear if this was like a fourth wall break because one of the scenes later in the movie, they say, Oh, I saw a movie where the man didn't speak for 30 minutes of it.

And then, like, he just kind of sort of stares at the camera. Yeah. I don't know. Should we briefly tell people what it's about without doing, like, a plot cap, you know, plot by plot recap? Sure. Yeah. Who wants to take that on? Michael Gambon is in a Guy Ritchie movie.

And he is a real, oh, bastard, right? I mean, like, properly out. and he's hanging out with the guy with the bloke from fucking lie to me, right? You understand? And then he's there with this bird who looks like a bird, and I put a photo of the bird in the notes. I didn't know Michael Gambin was like Welsh, or was he Welsh? No, Peter Greenaway is Welsh.

No, he's doing a... In real life. He's doing a... No, I know he's doing a voice, Justin. Yeah, but he's really kind of... Well, then why I bring up his welshiness? Okay. And then so he buys a French restaurant and imagines himself as a gourmet.

And he has his wife who he hates and who hates him. So typical marriage. And he is running this French restaurant into the ground and there's the French chef who apparently just is unflappable. He looks like. Columbo, but French. He is unflappable. And Columbo. Yes.

And the unflappable Colombo. He's like, I think he's unflappable because he's the only one who the thief, Gambin, like, doesn't talk down to because he's like the arbiter of taste. Like, he's his kind of like entrance to culture. His name is Spika, which confused me because I thought he, because he, when you first see him, he wears a sats. And I thought he was literally like Speaker, like Speaker of the House of Commons or something. But his name is Spica, S-P-I-C-A. And it's really confusing. Oh, speaking of which Jean-Paul Gautier did the costumes for this, which makes me incredibly

happened, happy. I saw that name pop up and I was like, for those of you who don't know, Jean-Pol Gautier, Gautier is a hauteur fashion house. Gautier also did the costumes for Fifth Element. And the Madonna, the like famous Madonna cone bra. He's done a lot with Dedevantez as well. Him and Mugler, I believe, have both done a lot of work with Mr. Pearl, the corseter. So, yeah.

Yeah. And like the costumes in this movie are like, they're incredible. And the. The first thing I realized that the clothes like changed colors depending on where they were. I was like, I mean, I'm sure that they're not actually like changing color. fabric but it's still No I think they had to I mean they had to make like

different sets for every which is wild for every room so like most of the movie takes place in this French restaurant and like the days are marked by the changing menu which is also really cool I love that as like an element

so the outdoors like the back area is I think blue and then the dining the kitchen is like jungle green and like green awake calls it jungle green the dining room is like really intense red and then the bathroom is white but when the door opens the red of the dining room like pours in and like makes it pink which is beautiful and then anything to do with the lover is like brown because he has a bookshop yeah the other the only the other thing too is like the only two characters

whose clothes don't change throughout are the cook and the lover because they're like fixed characters already. They don't, they're not like sort of ever changing. They don't have to like put on a show. They just kind of are who they are. Right. Yeah. So yeah, like Helen Mirren was obviously not having it with Michael Gambin, just being an asshole constantly who can blame her. And she's at the restaurant. She catches the eye of one of the other diners who has a book with him reading and they like cruise each other. They go fuck in the bathroom. They don't speak. They're cruising, you know.

Okay, but his whole approach to to it, I wrote it down because like they make eyes. They kind of like make eye contact, not really making eyes at each other. They make eye contact. She goes to the bathroom. He walks into the woman's bathroom goes, ooh, what? No head? And walks back out. And then just like stands there for a while.

And she's like, hell. Yeah. Is this how, have I been doing this wrong? Is this straight cruising? Should I be like doing crimes to pick up women? But the face he makes, he walks and he just goes. Because we are not a visual medium. Justin did like a shrug face.

And then exited frame. Yeah, he just does that and walks out. But I did love the scene where right afterwards, because she offers him a cigarette, he's like, and then her cigarettes are red and her dress is red. And I thought I should color coordinate my cigarettes with my outfit, which is easy because I only wear black, so I should just start smoking clothes again. Yeah, just like be a goth. Yeah, it's great over here.

Being a got goth is wonderful. No one here is wearing anything other than black. Again, not a video medium. I've got my Rocky Horror shirt on. because of the end I made. I did a callback at the screen when I was watching it. I have a T-shirt with a rib cage filled with flowers. Nice.

So. So, yeah, they start an affair right under his nose. And that's most of the movie. And then he finds out, you know, homicidal rage. Are we going into the spoiler zone? Fuck it. Spoiler zone. He kills the lover by having his cronies force feed him.

pages from his books, his favorite book on French history that he was currently cataloging and force feed him pages, and that's how they kill him. She gets revenge by having the cook, cook the body of her lover to feed to him. And that is when I was watching the movie and like, when that's a rather tend to subject. That's a rather tasteless joke at my screen and like had to fight the urge to be like, meatloat, it's what's for dinner. His name is. was Robert Paulson? Like, just the whole, yeah, that whole scene from Rocky Horror and all the callbacks you do. And then that's sort of the movie. It's incredibly simple for being two hours long. It's, she has an affair. He finds out bad things happen. She, she, she does a Titus

Andronicus the end. Yeah. And like the characters, I mean, I like, you know, they all have names, too, but I do like that there's like archetypes, you know, and it's like so clearly referenced in the title of the movie, you know, that it's just like, this is what the cook does, this is what the lover does, this is what the thief does, and this is what his wife does. And it's just, you know, these are, they are acting out like this, you know, like sort of classic revenge story. Yeah, and it's, I think it's something we touched on in the notes and in that great article that you sent us about how this film both like kind of reinforces like classifications as well as shows not necessarily that the lines between those are blurry, but that the passing

through them is not necessarily fixed. As in like, yeah, they're these archetypes, but they don't always fit them. And the great article is about like the digestive track. And then how this movie is always like tracking through scenes and it's obvious. It's a set and all this. It's going back and forth and things aren't necessarily going in the directions that they're supposed to go. and breaking out of these classification systems.

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, because she's like the wife, but like she doesn't want to be the wife. She's really bad at it. Yeah, she's, and for good reason. Yeah. It's a horrible place for a person to be. But yeah, the article, actually, the podcast Girls' Guts and Jalo did an episode. Yeah, they did an episode about this movie too.

It's great. And they mentioned this article that I like. looked up traversing the elementary canal by Tim White. So, yeah, it's like also just reinforced in so many parts of the movie, you know, that, like, this whole movie is about, like, eating and shitting and having sex and, like, food that is, like, right on the verge of rotting, you know, and there's so many references to, like, Peter Greenaway loves, like, Baroque paintings and stuff like that. And there's, I think, a lot of references to, like, Dutch Vanitas.

and like Memento Mori, where it's like, you know, it's all about life cascading into death, cascading into another life and, you know, just this cycle. And obviously the cycles in this movie are like broken and don't necessarily go where you think they're going to go. But yeah. Yeah, like one of my favorite genres of art is like the Flemish Renaissance and like the still lifes because they're always like have like rotting fruit in them and flies while also like fully bloomed flowers. Yeah. That is Flemish, right?

A lot of them is Dutch Renaissance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like hadn't noticed because I know that Greenaway is really big into like Flemish art. But that weirdly is not a connection I made. I was like looking at your notes. I was like, oh, duh.

Well, there's like so much in this movie. It's like an incredibly maximalist movie, which. is I think why one of the reasons why it gets talked about in art school a lot. Like if someone is kind of like using that aesthetic, everyone's always like, oh, you got to see Peter Greenaway movies. You know, they're like beautiful and repulsive at the same time and they love to play with those things. And, you know, that's like a big art trope. Like a lot of us weirdos, like, you know, like teasing that out and kind of, I guess like finding attention between those two things. Yeah. Yeah. I just want to like, there was this wing of the Boston,

an MFA that was this one still life painter because I believe they have a big, like, Dutch wing in there. And I would just like love, love looking through it. But, you know, when we first were like, oh, what movie could we have you on for? And then he suggested this. I was like, yeah, because I've been wanting to see it. But I was like, wait, why that movie? And then, like, oh, the lover is a bookseller and they kill him by, like, shoving,

like, force-fating him books until he dies. actually really, that was the grossest thing in this movie to me. But while I was watching it, like, so I, I mean, I, I am one of those people I'm starting to like have some qualms with calling it personal knowledge management, but like the PKM scene, because I'm into like note taking and all this stuff. The term information diet has been something that's been going around a lot. Like, what is your information diet? What information sources are you consuming? Are they like vegetables or are they junk food? Are you aware of which ones there? Yeah. And it's like, well, sometimes like I'm on Twitter because it's like a fidget toy while I'm in a meeting and like that's actually

how I focus. But this whole idea of like it's not just content that you're consuming, it's information itself that you are consuming and not just that you're consuming it, but that it's like a diet that you can like tailor and you have to judge whether things are good or bad in it. And so I was like, okay, this movie's about food, loosely, but this has got a lot of food in it. And how do we view, like, okay, if I have, like, information diet in my head, as I'm watching this movie about food and consumption, how do we digest, and, like, the track that takes through the body and how that gets conflated with sex, and how people relate to each other and how this movie is even conveying information and all that, like, what happens? And I gotta say, even just metatexually, the way this movie chooses to convey what it is conveying is information is fascinating. You brought up the menus thing, how it kind of demarcates the days, the scenes, the acts, whatever, with like a menu preface, I forget. But basically like this is not just here's the menu, what we offer, but this is what the set menu is for the day with like some pretty, like here's some rosemary, like actual bits of food around it. And so as a way of like telling the viewer, okay, here's where we're at now. Here's where to expect. But also like, think about, okay, if I go to a restaurant, what's that menu conveying to me? What does that mean? And I just, you know, seen a Kronenberg film. So obviously I'm like, what does it mean?

Same. Yeah. Like, I've been laughing about body as reality for like two weeks now. Yeah. And like the thing you pointed out about how like when they're cruising, like the lover doesn't talk at all. Whereas, you know, Michael Gammon doesn't shut the fuck up. Relatable, I never shut the fuck up. either. At least I'm not like that homicidal. How there's like books in it, how food conveys information. Like what happens if we as like library and information professionals don't just view information as like, I'm going to write a research paper or here's data. I got well doing a scholarship or here's books or something. But like what happens when we look at food as information worthy of being studied and looked at as of like how people transmit information from to each other and all that stuff. So I was just like the whole time I was watching it was like, oh, this is way juicier than I like thought it would be.

Juicy. That's a good word for it too. Yeah. It's so juicy. I want to watch this like six more times. Yeah. Yeah. And I think like the about like the menus and like the quality of the menus, like that's very flowery French descriptions of meals.

And like, you know, one of the big setups of the movie is that Spika is. is kind of like this boorish, like, new Voreish guy who actually has, like, no culture at all. So he can't pronounce, like, any of the menu items. Yeah. He's like, poy, poy. And, like, Georgina can, but he can, you know? And, like, that's another source of, like, his rage.

He is, well, I guess Greenaway, and this is, like, something I think would be interesting to talk about. Greenaway says that this is a movie that, like, like is kind of about like the Thatcher era of England where like greed was good. Yeah. And then he like people read it as like the lover is like the ineffectual intellectual intellectual left, which is like, okay, that's a call out. But I don't know.

It's interesting because he's like still like there's still people above that new Voishe kind of like petty criminal. this movie doesn't actually Like it doesn't seem like it seems like it goes after them and not like the top like Thatcher It also doesn't seem like it's making a commentary on class necessarily Because everyone in this is like he's still upper class and it doesn't I don't know if it Maybe I miss this part doesn't necessarily say how he got his money like I'm assuming maybe he's not born with it But maybe he is just one of those people who's born with it and is still a boorish asshole and not like a

like a pent up like New Englander who lives in the middle of nowhere Connecticut who like wears ratty sweaters and you know is in the secret history right? I know those people. Are you talking about the lover? No, Michael Gambon. Oh, Michael Gammon. Yeah, because

the lover's name is Michael too, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the thief is his actual name is Albert. That's right. Right. Yeah. Well, there is a lot of like strange class relations because you see the kitchen, you see like the people working in there, you see the guy who never has a shirt who I'm a big fan of. Like he's just there making Roo all day, no shirt.

I love the little singing lad, very Peter Greenaway, a little singing cherubic lad. And the thing that like sort of was strange to me, like at the beginning it kind of made sense, but as it went on, it was like everyone is really ride or die for this affair. Like, no one is going to spill the beans, no matter how many people get stabbed or, like, attacked by dogs, or they're just like, no, we are French. We have a commitment to this. They're a fraternity. I love love so much. They're so romantic.

So they're like, you can fuck in the bathroom. You can fuck in the bedroom. And in the breadroom. you can fuck in on so unsanitary the plucking room where when she when they're like oh 30 30 seconds more and she like scoots because hell of marriage is naked in the scene and she gets up on the table where all the feathers are and i'm like you're going to get feathers up your ass like that's that's not good i love how like dirty it all even though even though they're sex is kind of like oh yeah but like even then like like again this this movie the way it doesn't blur boundaries, but it just goes between them in the wrong directions or, like, overlaps them. Yeah. It's like, yeah, show that they can be like enamored and whatnot.

And it's like full of like love and passion that she hasn't felt forever. And it's still like gross. Like she gives them a fucking blowjob on the toilet, like, since standing on it all awkward and stuff as the first thing they do together. I was like, yeah, that's fucking hot. It's so hot. And then he like, uh, like reaches to her face to kiss him after,

which was like so intimate and like, loving, but also super sexy. Like their affair is incredibly hot. And really, yeah. I guess like part of me was thinking like everyone in the kitchen, like that's kind of their rebellion too, maybe, like being part of this affair. I guess. I mean, it just started to seem weird when like everyone was just completely

tight-lipped about it. And I was like, what? It's like, I don't need them to win. I just need him to lose. Yeah. Like, would you tell Spica anything? Fuck, no. No, I mean, at the end, it makes total sense when, like, everyone turns against him and, like, forces him to eat the guy. But, like, there's an escalation that happens throughout the movie. And I'm just like, why would you... The fact that the kid, like, let himself get force-fed buttons and stabbed instead of telling him where they were. was a lot. I just wrote DoorDash because, like, they run away naked. So they're about to get caught in the kitchen.

And where are they in this one? A very aesthetic, like, light and they're in the darkness room. They're in the dishroom. Then they get pushed into the fridge. Then they drive the rotting, some random guy drives the rotting meat truck. I actually almost threw up during that, to be honest. I almost threw up. Especially I'm like vegan vegetarian.

And I was like, that whole scene. What is the interpretation of the meat trucks? Because we see them in the first scene. He's like, oh, I got you some fucking meat. I think it was that the quality of the ingredients wasn't good. And so instead of dealing with it, it's like, fuck this. I will leave this here until it's forced to be taken away. And there's like cops and like the FBI show up to like investigate these meat trucks.

They just sit there forever. And then they have like escaped to me. Up was like, what, what's the, I don't, I miss, was there some symbolism? I just missed, I mean, it's what's going on with these trucks. I think, I definitely think that there's like a little bit of like a biblical thing happening with them like escaping and the meat truck and then the cook like, like, what biblical thing? Oh, well, and then like the cook cleans them off, right? Because they like escape to like, it's like Adam and Eve escaping to the garden. Oh, I was like, what happened with pigs?

In the Bible. No, it's very deeply symbolic. Okay. I was like, wait. No, I thought it was like nice when they were getting hosed off and then they like went and cuddled. Yeah. That was nice. That felt very like tender and like they were being cared for.

Like the music's really nice during then. It doesn't sound like Vivaldi plus Tim Burton during then. Right. Yeah. That felt kind of Adam and Eve like to me, I guess. That they're like escaping this like kind of hell. like, you know, like, Hieronymus Bosch hell or something.

The only Garden of Earthly Delights kind of stuff going on. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I thought it was just repeating the first scene where you first see the trucks. The kitchen worker gets like stripped, covered in shit. I don't remember. Yeah, it's shit.

And, like, attacked by dogs. And so I thought, and then he gets hosed off. So I thought, okay, they go with the truck. Now they're getting hosed off too. So it's sort of like this, it's a repeating of the scene. But I still just didn't understand what the. scene was about. I mean, I guess I can see sort of the, if you're looking at it as a painting, I can see

that you're trying to frame the art in the exact same way. So maybe there's like some art reference I'm missing. Maybe. Anything in the text of like the script, I'm kind of like, I would have picked up on that. But if it was like a visual thing of a painting, not my strong suit. Yeah, like some of the more like traditionally broke and Renaissance. art I was very good. I didn't, I'm not familiar enough with, I've listened to the bad gays episode on Francis Bacon. And I recently started following him, like his art bot on Twitter after they

mentioned Francis Bacon and Crampes to the Future. Francis Bacon. But yeah, I hadn't caught that reference to his art, which surprised me a bit because I was like, oh, it's green away. He's just going to do like Dutch shit from like the 1700s. I thought, I guess I was thinking at the beginning where it's like, you know, the very like slow down dogs ripping like raw meat apart kind of felt a little bacon-ass. I mean, that makes sense to me of what I know of bacon. I'm not familiar enough visually with his work. I've just listened to the Bad Gays episode about him. That's a great episode though, too. It's great. Yeah, I love Bad Gets. We had been on, by the way. Oh, sweet. Yeah. This is like a total aside, but I think what one of the things that I find really awesome about

Twitter and this like sort of loose like entanglement of podcasts and weirdos is just like all of these people who kind of have like developed similar tastes like oh we love the devils and cronenberg and Francis Bacon and like like all are able to find each other in this like kind of magical way like the fucked up perverts have carved out their little needs yeah and like that's another interesting like information sharing thing you know, that like, yes, you get it. You're like, oh, I found my people. That's cool. Yeah.

Well, I think also the reason like you can turn anything into like a leftist podcast is that this is like the AM radio of leftism. Like all the shit that the right wing did for like 20 years on AM radio like you can do now via podcasts. And I think it's going to have a cumulative effect. So I think it's worth doing. So like if you are really into model trains and you want to make a left. model train podcast. You should do it because it would be really easy and it makes sense to do it that way. So I think the whole infrastructure, it's good propaganda.

Hell yeah. So there was something when I was looking through your notes, Kate, that I would love, love, love, love, love, love for us to talk about in that you say language for eating and learning slash reading are similar devouring a book, consuming knowledge, especially considering that someone is forced to eat a book. And then that person is then himself eaten. And I was going on this whole thing of like, oh, is the information transferred?

What is it? Because I'm just an asshole and went to that mode about it. But considering how this film is mixing these spheres to begin with, I just love that. That was a point that you brought up if other people were interested in talking about that too. Yeah. I just thought about it because like I think something you wrote, you were like consuming. And I was like, yes, let's talk about that. And it like, I started laughing because I have asked several partners over the years like as a flirtation like how long it would take for them to eat me if we like got stuck on an island or something. Because I'm, I just find that kind of information like very darkly interesting. But that's why it took like a gay person to do. a really good adaptation of Hannibal, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Because it's like understanding, I guess. There's an intimacy there. There is an intimacy. There's like a sensuality. And like Hannibal is a really good reference, I think, for this movie. Oh yeah.

I was like, I really want to watch Hannibal now. Yeah, for sure. Because like he takes so much like time and care in all of the preparations he does. And like his handwriting is perfect in all of the episodes where he like pulls out his recipe cards. You know, it's like very, very stylized. And I think like, I don't know, I was just thinking about how people talk about like devouring. Like you talk about that in like a sexual way. You talk about that as far as knowledge. You talk about that with food. And like they can all be kind of cross. Like they're all about pleasure or maybe, maybe not, maybe about consumption or

like hedonism or whatever. But like it's interesting that we talk about all those things. kind of in the same way. And they're all, like, related to the body. Like, brain, brain, genitals, mouth, anus. You know, like. Well, it's like Michael Gammon's whole thing is, like, he just kind of rambles. And he just talks about like, oh, yeah, you know,

my pleasures are, are all the same. Like, I like to eat, but I also like Georgina. But it's strange because, it's strange, because pleasure parts, the pot, well, the shit comes, I don't remember what he says, but like, you eat and you shit, and the naughty bits are near your shit. The dirty bits are near the good bits or something. I like the point that the article brings up where it's not necessarily he's talking about innocence and like defilement, but he's literally just being like immature and childish,

and like those are her dirty bits, like her where her asshole is her dirty bits. Because it's dirty, like childish, instead of just being able to be like, don't shit where you eat. kind of thing. I liked that distinction. Again, of just how brilliantly this movie conveys what it's trying to talk about through language, but also through food. And the brilliant semiotic trick this film plays in the prairie oyster scene, where I forgot that he was eating bread dipped in water and thought that he had actually been fed a prairie oyster. Yeah. That he didn't know that's what it was. Like how, for those of you, you know, Albert, Alfred? Albert.

Yeah. Tim Roth's here, by the way. Tim Roth is he just shows up. He's in this movie. No one lies to him. I've been once. He looks like he's wearing some ruffles. He's looking good. He's being very Timroth. He doesn't know what prairie oysters are

and not in the way that they are in Cabaret where it's whiskey and toothpaste and an egg but in the bull or sheep testicles kind of way. And Michael Gambon's like, now take this ear bread dipped in water and put it in your mouth. And imagine all these textures, blah, blah, blah.

Because Tam Roth doesn't know that a prairie oyster is not like an oyster oyster. And now what you've just eaten is a sheep's testicle or whatever. And then he like spits the bread out. And I forgot that like he hadn't been eating an actual cooked testicle because of just like how this movie is. Because food's interesting and scent on to convey on film and in text. Because how do you convey to a person who can experience those senses while watching it properly? Like, Rattatuit does this really well. I think even though I haven't seen Rituitousins since high school and didn't like it, but still, great job.

The book Perfume does this really well. Shout out to the book Perfews. Another good, like, weirdo, fucked up pervert book. I like Spirited away from, like, food. Food's a, yeah. Yeah, and that movie, Tampopo? I have the criteria of Tampopo. It's so good.

I love Tampopo. Yeah, I love Tampopo. I should make some Raman after we get off here. Yeah. God, I fucking love that movie. That's fantastic. Oh, yes, it's so good. Yeah, like, semiotically, how this movie is conveying,

okay, what is it like to eat this thing of food? And so the fact that we know that that character isn't actually eating that. And even if he were, we know that as an act, actor that's not what he would be eating probably. It's still, like, there's this trickery that just goes on with the language and the information that is being given to us versus what we know is, quote, true. I was just speaking to R.E. Parrish, I know her about this because she was just on the right good podcast about how Dracula, one of its big things is like this Gothic fear over what forms of information are more truthful and reliable. than others because it is epistolary. And so like information sources in this film and what it is saying about them,

which ones are more reliable or not. Like when he's like busting that crayfish open and it's fucking like in fucking back on my like Lord of the Rings bullshit like in Twin Towers or is a fraternity king. Anyway, when Dinah Thor is eating the cherry tomato like very aggressively and he's like shaking and like ripping this crayfish. fish open. It looks disgusting. I lost my train of thought. I think about Lord of the Rings. It's trying to remember to the worst thing. It happens. I was saying something about, like, food and information.

It's like, oh, the cryfish, and you get it out. And yet, it looks disgusting. But then you can describe a per oyster, but we know it's bread. And, yeah, the food versus the words and then the books. And, yeah, that was jumbled up. When I was in my junior year of college, I went to Brazil, like, for the year. And I experienced like this kind of like weird dissonance with food and like what someone tells you it is and what it really is like to the high most high extent. The family that I was staying with, it was my first night there and they made me a cake.

They brought out the cake and cut it up and what it actually was. And I don't know if they thought like Americans love sandwiches or something. I have no idea. It was a layer cake made of like sandwich stuff. So like, where'd you say you were? In Brazil. Aren't they the ones that like put weird stuff on pizza? They do, yeah.

That makes sense, though. But it was all like, uh, like lunch meat and then like sandwich, like the sandwich part was like the cake layer. The lunch meat was like the icing layer. And then the whole thing was iced in mayonnaise and they like wrote my name in ketchup. And it was truly the most horrifying thing I've like ever experienced in my life. This makes total sense. I was thinking about this the other day because American food, because what you've been talking about, Jay, is like, food ways and like the way that people, it's like all the cultural accoutrements of creating food, but it's also you can use like information.

You could do an information approach to foodways. Like when I was a graduate assistant, my supervisor, I worked in special collections. My supervisor was a food waste historian. So he did the same thing I did. He did his master's in history, did his master's in library science. And then he's like, oh, I don't need. need to be like a historian. I can just do history and work in special collections all the time. So he had all these collections of like, not recipes. What's what I'm like menus? He would

save menus from like all the local restaurants and stuff. And he like wrote books about local restaurants. And the whole thing about food ways is like it's information that's conveyed in very specific ways. But I was thinking about this the other day and like most of like the most notable American foods or sandwiches because they're all, they all come out of this particular time in like the industrialization of the U.S. and it's all just stuff you can eat on the go. So it's all sandwiches. Hot dogs, I feel like kind of fall in that, but people don't really eat hot dogs. Yeah, people don't really eat hot dogs during lunch, but it's the same thing. It's just like, bread you can hold and like you can walk around with. So like it makes sense. But like, yeah, I can

totally understand why someone would be like, oh, like, the thing that most people know us for is hamburgers. And what is that? It's just a sandwich. So like, it makes total sense to me that someone would be like, oh, American food sandwiches. Just. Yeah. Yeah. Here's your weird sandwich cake. And it was like, yeah, the like simulacrum of a cake where it's like absolutely not a cake. And I'm like, I'm a person who doesn't like mayonnaise very much. So it was like the idea of mayonnaise is like like trying to simulate frosting was like incredibly upsetting. And yeah, it's true. It's like, you know, the food in this movie is very like upscale French. And like you read it very clearly as as that. And like, you know, the cook is actually like,

it's funny, he's called a cook because he's really like a chef for sure. And he has very specific like food quality. Like we first walk in and he's talking about like plucking the duck. And like how, canaled. Yeah, the canaled. And how important it is to pluck it a specific way. And like, there is like a funny thing that's like, I feel like, not everyone, but like Americans and probably like some Europeans like automatically read the French as being more cultured. You know, and so it's like this little symbol that you get right away that because it's a French restaurant. It's fancy.

You know, and the food is fancy and it's hard to pronounce, you know. And you have to be culture. to be able to like belong there. And you have to wear Gautier. Yes. And like Albert doesn't really belong there, but he can belong there with bullying and just like making everyone else scared. And granted, his outfits were looking good. I saw the way his like pants were tailored in those cool boots he was wearing.

He was also in Gautier. He does have some cool outfits. You're right. Yeah. That sash was looking pretty good. I like his, um, uh, cravat with the big. because it's actually acting as a napkin like they were supposed to, with a nice big, like, stone in it.

But the cravats looked like grandma doilies, which looked really cheap, which is really funny. I loved it. Yeah, they're like napkins. But they're goatee. They're goatee. I thought they look cheap on porpoise. Yeah, because they're napkins. Okay.

Well, that's also a weird fashion thing, too, where, like, I don't know if you've seen the Balenciaga sneakers that are like thousands of dollars. I'm not a Balenciaga fan. No, I mean, especially for this. They're supposed to like trampled and torn apart, but they're thousands of dollars, which is a very weird fashion, like class trope. Yeah, I'm a, I'm a Versace.

Like, looks like a whore with a lot of gold. That's all you need. I'm like, yes. Agreed, Versace. Let's do it. Versaise. I've watched showgirls in high school and I've just been fucked since then. I'm really glad it's going through like a renaissance.

I appreciate that a lot. I agree. Yeah. Yeah. What, getting fucked? I mean, not for me. But yeah, show girls. I think it's because Benadetta came out maybe.

Yeah, that makes sense. Dinidad was good. Did you notice the lady from Doctor Who was the waitress? Hoomst? The lady who is like the doctor's wife. wife in the new Doctor Who? No. There are several characters that are referred to by that moniker in the newer Doctor Who.

You're going to have to be more specific. Do you mean Riversong or do you mean the Tartis in the body of a human woman? Really? Is Dr. Who polyamorous in the new season? No. Oh, okay. There's Riversong. He's a monogamous.

What do you call it when you're monogamous and you keep dating, dating and dating? Serial monogamous. Serial monogamous, yeah. Yeah. But also, there's a monogamous. there's one of my favorite episodes is a Neil Gaiman wrote it and the body, the soul of the Tartist gets put into a person. And that episode is called The Doctor's Wife. Oh, okay.

Hence my confusion. But yeah, River Song, let's. Yeah, she's, she's the waitress, which I didn't think she was acting that far back. Is she the one who gets stabbed with the fork? No, no, no, no. She's just in the background everywhere. She's wearing the Zat Branigan outfit, which I really love how. everyone is dressed like Zapp Branigan.

They've got the red valour and the white gloves like Vegeta. I loved Helen Mirrens. I didn't realize it wasn't too. It was just one opera glove with fringe on it. I need it in my life so much. A Gautier opera glove with fringe on it. Are you kidding me? Instead of like flagging with hankies, I want it with opera gloves right now.

With doilies. Oh, it is. is her. Yeah. She's in like the background. She's in the background of like every scene. I thought she was only going to like show up once or twice, but she's in the background like the whole movie.

Is she the one wearing like a fun fifth element type of outfit in that final scene with like the spikies on our shoulders? I don't remember the final scene, but she's always just wearing the waitress outfit. It was kind of important. Her character's name was Adele. I did love, I loved like the procession in like the final scene. I thought that was really cool. Yeah.

Yeah. The dude who did the score had that, like, perfectly timed. So it was nice. I like whenever I see an extra, like, trip. So one of my favorite scenes in the movie Troy, there's like a scene where Agamemnon goes, ah, and they're like run. And there's one guy in the front who trips and, like, five people trip over him. And there's a scene in this movie where there's two waiters walking.

I've got the timestamp. And, like, one walks past the other one trips on the carpet and just, like, brushes it off. and it's, they can't cut because it's like a long shot. So I just love one in Fracing. It's like, oh, it'll be too much work to reshoot this. Yeah. Yeah. He just kicked up the carpet.

He's like, oh, oh, yeah. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, I would imagine reshooting any of these scenes would take a very long time. Because, I mean, I feel like that's, well, we talked about it a little bit, that, like, lots of the scenes are like long tracking scenes. Yeah, especially tracking shots that do that. cool thing where it's like we're going to go through the wall where it makes it very obvious that we're on a sound stage.

But then they also use those. They do a Hitchcock rope cut to change the colors of the clothes. That's what they use those for. I was like, this cool shit. Classic rope cut. Classic rope cut. Yeah, no, rope is, you know, those, I haven't seen it. It's a bad gaze movie.

It's not Leopold and Loeb. And it's the all in one take. movie. It's the most stressed out I've ever been in a movie theater was when I got to see rope in a theater. But they hide the cuts by like, we're going to zoom in to a character's jacket as they're hanging it up because it's dark. Something else I put in the notes that I was like, oh, there's disc horse going around about this right now. So the line where she's like, have you read all of these? And he's like, no, bookkeepers aren't actually required to read all of the stock. And Kay, I don't know if this reaches your side of Twitter at all ever, but

in response to a lot of these fucking fascist book challenges regarding pornography, they're not pornography, but even if it were, it would be okay. Challenges, there was this one library. I didn't read into it too much, but I saw that it happened, where this one library came up with a policy that they were going to have like three different staff members or something, like read every single book before they bought it or something, or they were at least going to have someone read a book before they purchased it. Because often, we don't read the, we often don't read the books before we buy them. We rely on people who make reviews of them in our professional literature to help base our decisions a lot of the time, or if it is from a publisher or author

that we are already familiar of, or, you know, if we see, hey, a professor requested did this. And so it's just, it automatically came out to me because that's literally something that came up with like in the past week of people pointing out, hey, no, we actually don't read things before we put them in the library most of the time. And this is a bad policy because that means nothing's ever going to get bought because we don't have the time to read. We don't actually read on the job, right? Yeah, you can't be. I mean, you're not a reading robot. Like, there's no way. I mean, it would be wonderful if you could read that much, but, like, no one can. And you shouldn't be required to read everything. Like, that's, is, that's very silly. I don't think it was read.

I think it was three people had to review it. I thought it was read. It was, it wasn't required by the library. It was required by, like, the board of education or something. Or something like that, yeah. They think three librarians have to look at it, but, like, a school district doesn't usually have three librarians. They usually have one that jumps between them. So it was clearly like an impossible sort of situation. Yeah, it was meant so that they couldn't buy books anymore. Basically, yeah. It's like, like, similar to like the, you know, rules about like abortion clinics where like hallways have to be a certain like, like, when always have to be 85 feet wide and 20 feet high. Yeah. And like, but we're, and we're not going to make that, we're going to make

that impossible for you. But like, you got to do it. And you have to have a committing privileges to local hospital, that sort of thing. Yeah. It's, um, that's actually one reason why for IUDs, they often don't give local anesthetic because then you'd have to have someone trained to do anesthesia in wherever you do IUDs in order to be able to do that and that, yeah. It's in the uterus. Ah, yes.

Okay. Yeah. You said wherever they do IUDs. Uh-huh. That's where the hysteria happens. So, you know. It moves around. Yeah. That's why we're not...

Ananoid, sexist, and you make fun of the elderly. That's why women weren't allowed to ride on trains for a long time because they were worried our uteruses would, like, go missing or, like, move around. Yeah. You know how uteruses are always leaving your body? There's wandering around. Trying to see, was there anything else that I frantically took notes about? Beyond my, like, I just watched a Kronenberg film. let me get way too deep about this and what things mean, like notes.

Did anyone else think her hat looked like the bird with bangs? I didn't know that meme, but then you put it in the notes, and yes. It's not a meme. It's just a bird with bangs. That's what they look like. I wasn't aware of that bird either, but yes. And like... It was all I could see. It's possible Gotee used that as an inspiration image.

Yeah, it would not surprise me. he's very big on like structural elements like he does a lot of like corsetry and like foundational garments in his work and there's definitely a lot of that to be seen here I thought all her lingerie was really nice

oh incredible yeah it was gorgeous yeah I think like the main thing that I like one of the things I take away from this movie is like it's even though there are some like really abject horrible things the like the sex and like love part of it is supposed to read as actually sexy and consensual and beautiful and like that scene where she was having the chef recount to her all of the times where he had like either accidentally or on purpose like voyeur her fucking and then the fact that he also mentioned that like he

had like walked in on his parents doing it before and also like fantasized about her and Michael doing it and where she was like I can't it doesn't exist if like you weren't there to see it where she has to have it like externally confirmed and I was like information and like had an aneurysm about it it was so hot it was it was very hard but he like lowered his voice down a little bit you know this like colombo chef yeah well he was like hot and he was like honestly kind of a consensual part of their affair. She was even like, did you want to join us? Yeah, yeah.

So I think it's like, you know, there's some, like, SLO. I don't think there's a lot of like sexiness to read into like those kinds of movies. It's like how I don't find Crash to be that sexy to be honest. Yeah, I do, but something's. I mean, there's parts of it. I'm like, yeah. But yeah, like some movies that are like, yeah, like the new Cronenberg I thought was super sexy. You know, it's like some of those movies are like.

like, oh, I can tell that the director, like, doesn't necessarily want you to read this as hot. But, like, in this case, it's very clear. Like, it's a beautiful, like, chemical. It's a chemical romance that they have. It's like how the food is the least pleasurable thing in this movie. Mm-hmm. And it takes place in a restaurant. Yeah.

All the food just looked gross. Yeah. It's like, the good stuff. And it was treated grossly. And then, like, anything that involved eating was just disgusting. Maybe that's why there wasn't as much oral sex as you might expect. Like, yeah, she, like, blows him. But, and then he, like, you know, sucks her tits a few times.

But, like, for a food-focused film, you'd think there'd be more people going down on each other. But maybe because, like, there's not pleasure in any of the things involving mouths most of the time in this. Yeah, there was a lot of pleasure in, like, their silence, actually. So that kind of makes sense, you know? Like, their trists had to be quiet. it. So I don't know. There's just a lot of full frontal of both of them. Yeah.

Like I know if it's a European film, I'm like, oh, they're a little more lax. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's just a cooked penis. Okay. Is this one of the Looney Tunes once again? This is called Love Sounds. No, where did you find this? It just comes with voice mod.

No. I'm kink shaming voice mod. I thought it was like the Looney Tunes where Bugs Bunny is like dressed up like a lady. Yeah. We love like Ginderfrey with Bugs Bunny in this house. Yes. There's a lot to talk about there. So there should be a leftist like pervert podcast about Bugs Bunny. I mean, if only so that I can come on, they can have me on to talk about what's opera doc and rabbit of Seville. I would like to come on and talk about how when Bugs Bunny gets cooked into a stew, it's like oddly sexy.

Yes. Because something weird happened to my brain when I was in style. And that's why you like this movie. I'm just gay and like Hannibal too much. And I was like, oh, okay. There's a lot of cool stylized lights. Yeah. Things look like artwork.

It's pinging the same centers of my brain here. There's food. It's not pretty. Like in Hannibal. And what's his name, the actor? Maze Mickelson. Oh, yeah. Or, um, yeah, Mads Mickleson.

Or one of the other two. Mads. Gagskickleson. I love Mazz McElson. Yeah, Mads is a beautiful man. He's great. Everyone in that show is beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah. Brian Fuller is doing a Christine remake. Ooh. I didn't get why. and then I saw Christine, and it's the gayest movie I've ever seen. So it makes sense. That does make sense. Yeah.

What else did I have in the Notting notes? I love how we barely talked about, like, the book. Oh, yeah, that was the whole point, right? Of you being like, oh, well, there's a book in here. Yeah. Okay, come on. There's a warehouse. People put books in warehouses.

It's dumb. That's what we have to do because books take up physical space. I do. Oh, that's because he was a bookseller, and then also the depository was where the extra books were? Well, he had a night kid. This was not just like, okay. He was.

So I'm like, is that just a British term? Books and also was a cataloger for his second job. Oh, because he wasn't, wasn't rich. And I was like, talk dirty to me. Yeah. And so he had a bedroom in the depository. That they could fuck in. I don't think so.

I think they just made that. Oh, okay. I think it was just like a loft that was converted it into a book depository. And then later they used it because it had a really good skyline view. Yeah. Because in Dallas, you know, it's really hard to get like a good skyline view. So when you're in the book depository in Dallas and you just really need like a lot of

line of sight to really take. Uh-oh. Speaking of, did you see that Kim Kardashian broke the Marilyn Monroe, J.F. K happy birthday Mr. President dress that she wore to them at gala. Yes, she did. To be a fashion bitch here again. So fucked up.

Oh, I'm so mad about it. Yeah. And like, I just, I listen to a, there's that podcast, you must remember this, which is like an old film podcast. It's really good. But I listen to like, yeah, I listen to like a three-parter about Marilyn Monroe.

And like, it's so weird listening to that. And then hearing that Kim Kardashian, had to diet, like she didn't eat for like weeks to fit into that dress. And like Marilyn Monroe had so many fucked up like digestion problems and stuff because they gave her pills all the time and she had like really bad endometriosis. And I don't know. There's something really, I don't know, just like gross about I guess glamorizing that. And that dress was like she wore it, yeah, to like sing to JFK and like their relationship was so full. fucked up. I don't know.

And I think even Marilyn was like sewed into it. She was. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like made to fit her body and just I love Marilyn Monroe. It's one of those where it's like I watch gentlemen prefer blondes and I was like, this isn't going to be as good as. And then I was like, this movie

rules. It's a much a good movie. And then I should just start checking other on any demographic form that ask my gender and sexuality because it won't let me say whatever the fuck is going on and some like it hot at all times. This is my answer to both of those.

Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah. She just had a... You know that in terms of male human and female Pokemon breeding, Vaporon is the most compatible Pokemon for humans? What? Okay. I didn't know that. What's a Vaporion? It's Pokemon.

I don't know Pokemon. Me neither. I did the summer Pokemon Go. I Pokemon Go to the Poles, that one glorious summer. but I don't know what the Pokemon are. I like that it's called a vape a vaporion. Yeah, because it's like a water type.

Yeah, it's like a big vapor. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to get Jay into like Dragon Ball Z because I feel like he missed out on being like a 14 year old shithead. So I feel like every day you've got to wake up and listen to radio head in high school. It was fine. You need to look up. I got to be a 14 year old shithead. I listened to radio head.

You need to watch Vegeta punch Goku every morning to System of a Down Sugar. Is this going to be like my final step in transitioning is I have to watch Dragon Ball Zed? Yes. I can't be a real boy until I watch Dragon Ball Zed. I'll make a man out of you. I guess that's fine. I've always been such a fan so I don't have to watch it. I'm sorry, Jay. I'll cut that. You can put it in there.

No, I always make that joke when I watch Rocky Horror, because that's a similar in just seven days. You know, I can make you a man. If only. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a Rocky Horror. See, I watched Rocky Horror in fifth grade.

Yeah. You know, I watched it when I was like 30. Yeah. No, I don't need to have watched Dragon Bowl Zed, even though, actually, to be fair, when it was on at night, on Adult Swim, when I was like six. I did have it on when I went to bed. I watched Sailor mode, though.

You didn't spend hours screaming at the woods trying to go Super Sayan. I didn't know what Super Sayan was until like five years ago. It's an essential point. I didn't know who Sasuke was. I still don't know who Sasukee is. I just know that they're supposed to kiss. Yeah. Or that's Naruto.

Yeah, it's Narutu. I got them confused. Narato and Sasakei. It's just watch you, Yucasho. It's better. I don't know what that is either. I'm lost. I like Evangelion.

Now you both know how I feel like when you're both talking about cinema and I'm just like, you have to show. Sorry. I got, got, Kokoro he's like, yes, what like snooty pervert art house film do we both enjoy? Yeah. I liked the only anime I've watched and enjoyed is Dora Hidoro. See, I was going to ask, like, have you watched Angels Egg or something? Because I can see that being something you've watched. No, but I mean, I'm open-minded.

I just, like, I never got into it. Angel's Egg is a film by the same. It's animated, and it's very experimental and surrealist abstract. I don't know if I don't remember if there's dialogue, but it's by the same guy who did Ghost in the Shell. Oh, okay. I'm writing it down. It's good. It's really good.

Yeah. I'll put it in my notes. I'm more familiar with films than I am with series. Films. As far as Japanese animation goes. Yeah. I love films. Films.

As far as the animation of the Orient, you know, it's... I love the Orson-Wells critiques things on Twitter meme. It's so good. Dragon Ball Zed. Amazing. I'm happy this week, and that is one of the reasons, was Dragon Ball Zed. That man drank a lot of wine.

He sure did. I love him. Yeah. You know this is a pile of shit, don't you? And he was supposed to be in Jodorowski's Dune, which would have been really cool. That's right. He was going to be Harkonin, wasn't he? Yeah.

That documentary is so good. It's incredible. It's so good. Justin, have you seen that? It's so good. I've never seen anything except Pokemon. Well, and Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball said.

Yeah, Dragon Bowl is just injected into my mind. But you know that at Pinky in the Brain, brain is based off of a warm-up. Yeah. Yeah. I love Pinky and the Brain. Me too. Yeah. That's a thing we all get along. Yeah.

Yeah. We've made several Pinky and the Brain references on our podcast. I don't know why it just got in there, you know. My Shadowcast group in college, we put several in scenes of, like, Riff and Magenta, when they'd like make eyes to go fuck somewhere. It's like, are you thinking what I'm thinking pinkie? Yeah, but we're going to get a fine green jello. I just want to watch Rocky Forward now, too.

I want to watch Venom. I don't know why earlier. I was like, I don't watch Venom. He neither. It's so good. I hear it's perverted and monster fuckery. And Thomas Hardy is deranged. And I like Thomas Hardy.

And I like monster fucking. I'll put it. I hear the second one's even more monster fuckery and derange. It is. It's really good. He goes through like a rave. I hear they're quite good. Yeah.

I love the range. Monster fucking. Yeah. I don't, I don't hate super filmy comic movies. I don't hate them. I actually am a defender of the first Avengers film is one of the greatest action films ever made. Whoa.

As in they should. Cut his mic. They should teach it as in like its structure and stuff. I don't even like Joss Whed. And I'm like, that's a genuinely good action movie. But. So, Kate, we always like to end with an action-oriented question. The what?

An action-oriented question. Okay. So... The important thing should we do for librarianship based on what we talked about today. Oh, shit. Yeah. How should we orient our lives around the cook, the thief, his wife, and the four-star Dragon Ball?

Oh, my God. I think... Okay. So I always... I guess, like, I don't know. know what librarians do in this in this like part of like critical like building up

sort of like critical knowledge but I feel like movies like this like people don't watch them because they're just like put in one box you know where it's like oh this is a disgusting movie and like some people watch it because it is

a disgusting movie but like I feel like it's so much more than that and people don't have have, like, we don't have a really good, like, language for film, I think, like, in the United States, obviously. It's horrible. And this film references so many different things. I'm like, I think it, I don't know, it talks about, like, all different art forms. And, like, the music is really beautiful. And, like, it's, like, formally really exciting. And there's amazing fashion. Like, I just feel like these movies get lost, you know? And it's sad that like nobody watches them anymore. Yeah. So

librarians in our classification languages, they are shit at genre. Okay. Especially the ones that like we in the United States tend to use the Library of Congress genre form terms. That'll be like fiction, film, like the basics, but like a former supervisor and I have been wanting to for years, write a paper on subject headings and genre form terms for romance novels because of how granular those genres get, and

where romance novel just doesn't cut it for most actual fans of it. And so, for like, how do you classify this film? And then how do you show the relationships to other media and forms that it references in order to create that, like, serendipitous experience? So

that if you're like a high school nerd like me and you're reading a book, and it mentions this movie that you can then easily access this movie. And, oh, this movie references this piece of art. Well, then I want to go look at that too. What's this about? Oh, my God. Yes.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. This could be a good use case for linked data or something like it. Ooh. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, how do we make sure that these culture is more complicated than we like to think of in our

cataloging classification systems? Yeah. I love that. Like, I mean, that's the way I learn about different arts. art forms, you know, like, me too. Within this movie, you're like, okay, well, in the dining room, there's a Franz Hall's painting, you know, and like, who's that? Let me look that up.

He also references, there's a movie called Legron Booth, which is like, for, it's a gross movie. For men, like, enter into a big booth. Yeah, basically, they enter a suicide pact, like, to basically, like, eat themselves to death. This sounds like something those guys who did like delicatessen would make. Yeah. You know. But like, you know, that's how people, I think, at least that's how I learned that, like,

you kind of bounce from one thing to another and like you form this sort of like, when I was in art school, they would talk about a lot about how you would form your sort of like artistic lineage. So you'd be like, Louise bourgeois is an artist that I look at all the time. Like, what artist does she look at? And, like, if I, like, Peter Greenaway, like, what is, what's the music he listens to? You know, and, like, you kind of form this, like, constellation of art references. And, like, it's not linear. It's all just kind of, like, bouncing.

At my new job, once I start, that's actually going to be a type of skill. I am wanting to, like, teach the students as it sort of curatorial. How do you find things unrelated to, you? your performances and compositions. Oh, cool. You can include in those. And not even like, I'm basically going to put this in my performance or composition, but how do you curate that kind of lineage and network and whatnot instead of just

hear sheet music? Right. Yeah. When I was writing my, I had to write a thesis for my MFA. It was short, but because most of it was like a gallery show. But I, like, on my wall, just put up, like, five sheets of paper. And, like, with a Sharpie, I just was, like, artists I'm looking at, books I'm reading, films I like, things I want to talk about, you know. And it was, like, really easy. And whenever we had, because we had crits all the time. So, like, whenever anyone came in, I'd be like, look at my wall. Like, this is what I want to talk about. And, like, this is my art. And, like, let's go from there. You know, so it was, like, really easy to digest. Yeah, like what if information professionals and librarians, like instead of just here, I'm going to do a reference interview, I'm going to do an instruction on, you know, here's how you use our databases or whatever, like teaching people those kinds of personal curatorial skills. Yeah.

Like that is also information that people interact with and have to like manage and find and like evaluate and stuff. It's not just for like research papers or a book that's similar to the book that you just read, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's super rad. I love that. Yeah. I'm glad that they're teaching that art school.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess so. And in my program, at least. Yeah. What's your medium? I do fiber and installation. Oh, that's right.

You said that, yeah. That's right. There's a library article I should send you then. It's about this person who did classification and it was in ancient Greece. And she, her method was compared to weaving and fiber. arts. Oh, very cool. One of my favorite librarians, Melissa Adler, it's called Eros in the library.

I love it. I love it already. Yeah, it's super short, too. It's great. Yeah, cool. Yeah, she did it for an art journal. Nice. Yeah.

That's right, boys, Mondo Coo. Justin, you look dead even though it's 9 p.m. where you are. It's Justin, all right. I think we art, we arted. Uh-oh. much. I art. Yeah.

Guys, I arted. I arted all over myself. I'm sorry. I don't always get fun art people to talk with. I did it again. Oops, all arts. Well, Kate, is there anything else you want to to plug at the very last minute? No, that's, uh, I guess just, uh, listen to thanks for the memories and go to at

Fang's podcast on Twitter. They'll all be in the notes. Even if they weren't so fangs, you days on this view. Good night.