librarypunk - 121 - Info Seeking Behaviors of Queer Folks feat. Audrey

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

It’s our Valentine’s Day episode!   RFTB https://radiofreetotebag.castos.com/  Data Transfer https://open.spotify.com/show/71DUoMdvyGDfWqDx2uvTGC  Bluesky @Aud Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/QTr6Tn6YMk  Media mentioned Reddit segment: https://www.reddit.com/r/Library/s/lWgNJFVxif  Coyne (2022) “We have to figure it out ourselves”: Transfeminine adolescents’ online sexual experiences and recommendations for supporting their sexual health and wellbeing Ma 2022 Patterns of online relationship seeking among transgender and gender diverse adolescents: Advice for others and common inquiries.  Skeen (2024) The intersectional social patterning of early-COVID-era digital intimacies among transgender and gender-diverse young adults: effects on peri-pandemic sexual decision-making  Rothbauer (2004) The Internet in the Reading Accounts of Lesbian and Queer Young Women: Failed Searches and Unsanctioned Reading. https://openurl.ebsco.com/EPDB%3Agcd%3A4%3A11553252/detailv2?sid=ebsco%3Aplink%3Ascholar&id=ebsco%3Agcd%3A19872901&crl=c  Primed: The Back Pocket Guide for Trans Men and the Men Who Dig Them | Rainbow Health Ontario 

How often do you do you do your tea injections? Weekly. Yeah, same. Same here. Yeah. When I first started it was every other week, but there was like too much of a spike and tip. Right, right. And so just do it every week.

Yeah. And I like the, I like stabbing my leg with a two inch needle. Oh, it's so much fun. Because I'm a big pervert. I put the little needle in my tummy and I'm like, yay, girl's do. Oh, I can't do that shit. No. Really?

Oh, no, I can't do the subcutaneous, the little tiny needle in my time. You can do it. You can't. That's so crazy. Yeah, no. I stab my leg. with a two-inch needle once a week. Yeah.

Bind with it. See, I did not. One time it was shaking. I could not pull it. No, I love it. I'm such,

I do needle play too. So like, I'm just like, yeah, I'm just gonna be a sicko. Death. Yeah. But like,

no, doing the little tiny little, tiny little baby needle in your tummy. I'm like, ooh. It just hurts for a second. It's okay. No,

I just want to stab my leg. It's fine. It doesn't, I know it doesn't make sense, but. We are a land of contrasts. We are. Each of us.

Yes. And they give you the wrong needle size all the time. They do. They certainly do. I end up with the wrong shit all the time. They actually didn't give me, they gave me syringes but no needles this time. So I have to go back and be like, hey. They always give me subcue.

And then when they, my injection needle, they always like forget to give me two inch. And they give me like one inch. And I'm like, this needs to go. I need it deeper. I had to be able to hold it in my leg for 10 seconds and then pull it out. And the juice not leak out. I know there's the bullshit Z lock bullshit that I've never been able to get down. The what?

So you pull your skin to the side and then you do it and then you pull it out and then you go it back and it creates like a this where it closes off the wound. There's also like an air lock air pocket technique so you can get everything. I don't think it's caught in the needle. But I'm afraid of stabbing myself with air. So I don't do that. And I just, I'm like, I'll just loops a little bit in the needle. It's fine. Yeah.

Yeah. I do like a really long draw until I get like a bubble and then I slowly push it back up and the bubble goes faster than the E and escapes out. And you want to get a little drops out because that lubes it up

when it goes in your skin. That's right. Mm-hmm. Especially tea isn't oil. I don't know if E is an oil. E is some kind of... Some kind of oil. I can't remember.

It's called estradial valerate. I think it has some kind of oil to it. Deastasterooncipionate. Ooh. Isn't that fun? Mm-hmm. This has been the trans corner on the very trans episode. Yeah.

All right. We'll do the intro. Why is it when I always laugh when I start doing the show? Because it's a weird transition. It's like, it's cool. So we're here to do. Where is my theme song? I'm Justin.

I'm a Scalcotton library. My pronouns are he and they. I'm Sadie. I work IT at a public library and my pronouns are they them. I'm Jay. I'm a music library director and my pronouns are he him. And we have a guest. Would you like to introduce yourself?

I would. My name is Audrey. I'm retail worker and podcaster, and my pronouns are she and they. Yeah. And you did our theme song. I did do that. I'm also a composer. What's the chanting?

Boss baby. Wrong guest, Justin. That's for Kyle. That's for Kyle. That's not coming on. He's friends with a baby now. This is an anti-baby podcast. Just JK.

We were the first podcast. the little labor abbey made noises on. So, you know, but we're also antinatalist. Speaking of antinatalists, we were at your sick live show where I assume nobody got pregnant because nobody got pregnant. There were too many gender and sexual configurations happening. Exactly. None of it lined up for procreation.

That's 100% the case. Yeah. Very queer show. As Donovan said in the midst of things, well, you list. to this show, there's a 50% chance you're trans, which I thought was the line of the night. It was really funny. Yeah, good time was had by all.

I hope very soon to be back in Chicago, Illinois, doing more of those fucking things. Because, like, going up live and, like, the second my foot hit the stage, everyone fucking erupted into cheers, and I was like, fucking hold on, let me get the music. Girl, you fucking killed it.

Like, yeah, so good. I'm so happy about it. I'm still buzzing. Three weeks later. Yeah, and you were answering questions about, you know, people's various quandaries, and then a segment that I like, which is bargain humpers. Yes, we do, you know, heartfelt relationship advice and dumbass goofs.

And then we like to go to the bargain bin of sex toy websites and find goofy nonsense and put it up in front of people and go, hey, look, look that. You know, the classic podcast content minor way of doing things. Was the theme that you did all Amazon stuff? Some of it was Amazon stuff. I think I got the, what did we even do? I kind of white it out in the middle of things. There was the like, yes, you were. There was the like hungry, hungry hippos blowjob thing.

That was an Amazon pick. Yeah. The fidget spinner butt plug was from extreme restraints. Yeah. And, oh gosh, what was the other one? Does anyone have the other one? I can't remember what the other one was. We did three.

I think I peed at some point during that. So I don't think I missed one of them. Like I said, I'd whited out because I was very anxious. I did not show it, but I was very much like gone for much of that. I was just like running on instinct. Yeah, no pauses, no breaks. It was just bam, bam, bam, bam. Yeah.

It was great. Yeah, trying to keep up. Just trying to keep up up there, you know. We got it. We got it down. Nice. All right. So we've got a segment today, which is, we do as of like 10 minutes ago when I looked

on my phone, which is Reddit ask Reddit. Library Reddit is an interesting space. I see. So this one got cross-posted onto our library. Or no, this is this is on our library. This was not cross-posted. My local library accused me of pissing on the door and flashing people. Now I'm embarrassed and don't want to return what I borrowed.

Bring it back. I like this one because it sounds like one that would end up on RFDB, quite honestly. Yeah, the relationship with your local librarian having peed on the door. Why would you accuse somebody of peeing on the door if they didn't pee on the door? So there was a guy who pissed on the door before they opened. Apparently I looked like him cops were called a case of mistaken identity. I see. I see.

Chacuse. Jacques use indeed. So, yeah, like, return the stuff. Do the night drop. Like, he has to go do the night drop and then never be seen there again. Okay, but I actually read, like, I read into the comments. And he's not returning them because he's too embarrassed. He's returned to, he doesn't want to return them because he's pissed.

Yes, that's fair. Valid. Yeah. You're valid. You're valid. Yeah, I actually feel really bad for this poor guy because he's like, the library is one of the few places. I actually go because I'm in an anxiety ridden to gorophobe and like some fucking chump security guard is like, hey, I thought we told you you weren't supposed to be in here for pissing on the walls or whatever, like in front of everybody. So like this poor dude just got the fucking security needs to go.

This is why you don't need security in your libraries. They're just embarrassing you. He got hosed, much like the door. Yes. You hang on to Spider-Man 2, the PS5 game for an extra three weeks, buddy. I don't think anybody's really going to argue with you. They will just buy another one, manga. A manga?

Goodbye area. A manga? I love the final sentence. I could still use my grandma's library card. Yes. Yeah, fuck the security guard A-cab, steal Spider-Man A-Cab includes rent-a-cops.

Yeah, A-Cab includes library security. Yeah, no. Sparman 2's a good game on PS5. They really, they really nailed it. I didn't know I could rent current-gen video games at my local library. There's a lot of things you can, and you don't rent them because you don't have to pay for it.

It's free. I know, I can borrow them. With your taxes, but that's what taxes are. As they pay for it. You're telling me that I could buy. Armored Core 6 fires of Rubicon if I didn't already purchase it as a pre-order. Probably. Maybe.

If there's a physical version of it. If there's a cool library near me that has Armored Corps 6 in almost rural Kentucky, probably not. Probably not. Request to purchase. Do it in a library loan. That's what I should do. I should definitely hit him up and be like, I'm trying to play Yakuza 8, bring it in here.

Yeah, especially with the crazy way that PlayStation especially deals with physical media, because what PlayStation does is you put a disc in and then it downloads the game anyway off the PlayStation Network. And then you take the disc out and it goes, ah, can't play your game. Can't play your game. You have it on the thing, but you can't play it because you don't have the disc. So your disc just becomes a physical fob or your digital video game. So cool. It's so cool.

DRM is so cool. The future's working. So, I really was like, sometimes I still want to. like buy physical PlayStation games because I'm like, well, what if I just want to like game stop it? But then like all the game stops near me, I think, but not a business. Sounds right. Sounds right. They didn't go to the moon.

Yeah. Because there's a new, there's a new, what is it? Memstock. No, there's a new game out that's like PlayStation exclusive. But I didn't like the last one now. I don't know what video games are. Call of the West. They keep giving them weird names.

Forbidden Mountain. Forbidden Mountain sounds very forgotten. I'll show you a forbidden mountain. I'd like to climb that forbidden mountain day I don't know what that would refer to You fight the mechanical animals anyway Oh Horizon Zero Dawn Yeah

I call it Horizon Zero Dong because it's a cis-fem protagonist Horizon Zero Dong, right? You know what I'm saying? That's right Up yours, woke moralists Yeah I don't know what video games are still But I hope this person steals this one from the shitty library

Available for kissing practice on a portable Nintendo. That's the best JCP line of all time. That's before he was, that's back in his like fedora days. He was literally wearing a fedora when he said that. I've got a photo of him saying it. He's got a black jacket, a gray shirt, a blank white tie, a black fedora with a white band on it. I don't know what he's trying to, he's trying to look like a black and white film gangster. I guess. I don't know.

Can I get a print of that photograph and have him sign it? I want that very bad. Can you sign the white band in the fedora? Thank you. Thank you. Speaking of Reddit and information seeking, I just thought it was funny that I clicked on this link to go to this. And my recent, not that I use Reddit, but sometimes like Quora, you have to go to it to find your answers. my four recent R's are our consensual non-consent, our sub-sacuary, R submissives, and R-C-NC

connect. Mine are all like show research. Mine are probably boring, but. I was like, oh. Did you go into sub-sanguary after they talked about it on Quora? Maybe. It's where all the subs go to be mad about all the doms. And then they went to the Dom Reddit and everyone was having a great.

time. I sure is great being a dog. Where are your recent ones? I want to find on the left side. It's under home. I've got my communities. Our announcements, which is funny. Our audio engineering,

our Dark Souls 3, our gun lance and our magic TCG. Hell yeah. The two, the two gender. Those who fuck and those who game. Mine are like our ask Reddit and like are like creepy threads. Okay.

I like to read like the ask Reddit but like the creepy ones. Like the like what's the weirdest shit you've ever seen happen in real life kind of like. Hell yeah. Okay. I like to especially during spooky season. I like to go through and read a bunch of those and then find the good ones and then read them aloud to people. Yeah. I follow the two sins horror one but like on Twitter.

where it posts the screenshots of the two-sentence horror. What's your favorite two-sentence horror? Oh, God. I always love the unhinged ones where, like, the second sentence has, like, nothing to do with the first sentence and just, like, throw some wild shit in there. It's like, but little did they know. And it just, like, throws in whatever scary thing in the last bit. And it just, like, doesn't connect. Like, they don't do anything clever.

The Andersons were on a picnic in the park. The xenomorph. Little did they know the xenomorph. Yeah, like shit like that. Those are always the ones that I love. What are you squinting? Justin, what are you looking at? I, for some reason on like the front page of Reddit, there's an R library's one.

And it's like, we're finally banning the problem bathroom guy. And I'm like, okay, this is just like someone complaining about a homeless dude using the bathroom? But then I get to the second paragraph because they're like, we talk to United Way. We're trying to get him closed. We're trying to get him granola bars. He's a young guy, whatever. And then I get to the second paragraph. Shortly after he started coming, someone started poop.

behind the dumpster every single day. It's like, that took such a turn. There's somebody who's been doing that at one of our libraries. They shit in front of the staff door, like, every night. Oh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You just got to get one of them grabbers.

You know what I mean? One of the, like, old folks grabbers. Just go in. Or like the doggie bags. The dog bags. Yeah. Yeah. The things we deal with living.

We live in the motherfuckerhood society. That's for sure. We sure do. librarians deal with some bodily fluids. That's so weird. Deeply unfortunate. I wonder if you deal with more or less than when I was a bouncer. Like, I had to,

there was a lot of vomit mopping and, uh, piss cleanup, but I wonder if librarians have to do more than like a bouncer at a club. I would much rather hire a library bouncer than a library cop. Yes, for sure. I want a cooler at a library, like higher pieceways at Roadhouse.

You need a 20, And like hot. You need a 22-year-old with a ponytail and a security t-shirt to walk around. Like, check X's at the library. Who's the hot old guy in that? That's in also Big Lebowski. And he takes the ponytail out at one point. And I'm like, who.

I forget his name. It's like Sam something. I'm going to say Sam Neal. I wanted to say the two, but isn't that the Jurassic Park guy? It is. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I wanted to say too.

Now I want him to have like a cool gray ponytail. Yeah, because he's hot too. Yeah. Sam Neal ponytail. Yeah. Surely he's had one. Ponytail Rule 34. I'm sure it's happened.

Just adding Rule 34 on the end of any random Google search. This is what Chuck Tingle probably does and gets ideas for tinglers. We'll have to ask him. That's actually a good idea. Sam Neal with a ponytail. Everything else is normal. Is Sam Neal Australian? Because he is...

Yeah. He looks incredibly Australian in this one photograph that I found of him. He's from Newland. Do a joke like, because he can get my Dan under. Yeah, yeah. All right, all right, all right, all right. Break it up. Too much fun.

That was Reddit. Boom. All right. So I wanted to do what we want, this is our library. This is my idea, motherfucker. This is our Valentine's episode. We wanted to do a Valentine's episode. Here I am.

And yeah. Finally, we. I thought we need to bring a queer person on this podcast to talk about information-seeking behaviors of queer people. And so we've reached out. Our powers combined. This was my idea. Stop stealing my valor. We wrote the notes.

You did, but it was my idea. I'm going to get this document pulled up. I'm going to do that. Yeah. So, but I started looking for things. Because Jay has done research on information-seeking behaviors of queer people before. And I was interested in particularly like, what are the zoomers up to? What are the kids doing who are like?

Yeah. Are they all right? The kids. Yeah. Are they okay? What happened during the like quarantine to their age of teenagers? The great ADHD transiting. Every, like everyone trans to their gender.

I have a friend that's a really cool theory about that is that you spend just a couple months away from the strictures of society and what other people expect of you. And all of a sudden you're like, wait, I don't have to do any of that shit. I was interviewing an article about that. Yeah.

Well, I mean, when you're literally watching society crumble around you, like at that point, it's like, fuck, if I want to go transgender, why not? Yeah, fuck it. What's the worst that can happen? What are they going to do to me? Yeah. I get new interactions with doctors.

Yeah, Kelvin Kalsike wrote about the experience of trans people during quarantine, both like people who transitioned before and also people who transitioned during. And then I was one of the people he interviewed for that. Sick. Because my dysphoria got worse during quarantine. I discovered that I had it in the first place during quarantine. I had already started transitioning. But, you know.

I did face. app because that was like a Facebook trend. I did the face app thing and saw myself and then instantly went and shaved off this big fucking dysphoria beard that I'd had for years and went and did another one so I could get a better picture and went wait a second. Why did I remove this part of my, that had been part of my affect for years? Why did I remove that so I could see myself better as a feminine? Oh no. No, I do love hearing people's stories where they're just like, you know, I don't think it'll ever be me, but I just think they're neat. Yeah, exactly.

I used to watch Velvet Goldmine be like, you know, if I were a guy, I would want to look like that. But I'm not a guy, so, oh, well. Right. We're like hearing stories about transgender people and being like, wow, I wish I was transgender, because then I could feel all of them. That's a very cis thought to have. I could be allowed to feel all of these feelings I have if I was trans. Absolutely normal. Gally Gilly.

Gwilger. Gally, gee. Yeah. Everyone feels that way, right? Damn. Hot dog. Yeah. I'm legitimately the only one person in the Postponies Discord who was just like,

yeah, I do just think they're neat. I did some soul searching. No, but I don't think so. I don't know. Give a time. You know what? Just wait. We'll find out.

Hold on. This is pending further investigation. I mean, this is basically what happened on my Tumblr was everyone just transitioned between 2015 and 2019. And I was like, cool. I'm following, like, I didn't have to change anyone I followed, but they're all, it was just that meme of the guy talking to porn bots and it's just like, I don't know what's going on with you.

Hello, ladies. Just following a bunch of politics dudes. He transitioned. It's pretty cool. It is. Although Instagram is still convinced I'm trans and it's like, do you want underwear that truly fits your body? I'm like, yeah, but this won't work.

Are there other reasons why Instagram is giving you those ads? I've been getting them for years. Oh, okay. You getting ads for pepper? Getting the pepper bra's ads. I'm getting ads for the thing that Jay always talks about, his little travel needle thing. Oh, sure.

I'm getting ads for those now. This is so cute. I want one so fucking bad. It's so good. It's a fucking life-changing. Look at this goddamn shit. It's like, it's advertised to trans dudes, but it's for anybody who uses needle-based men.

medication. Yeah. Yeah. Heroin users. Yeah. Exactly. If you, like, do injectable drugs of any kind, legal or otherwise, this is very nifty. Yeah, you need something stylish and transportable for your needs. Whatever your needs may be. Yeah, you can like stick it like your vials like in here. It's got all these different pockets. It's a little pockets. Yeah. Shouts out to the stealth bros and co. Stealth Bros. Also sounds like a trans porno collective. Yeah, it's a black trans man. Yeah, hell yeah. Yeah.

I'm just saying, it just sounds like, what's, what's the one? Jock Pussy, that's the one. Oh, yeah, jock pussy. I always think of. Such a good name. And there's like two trans guys that are always in jock pussy. Ari Coyote, and I can't remember the other one's name. The guy that's got the fucking Aries tattoo.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Him. I love the intimate level of knowledge of two of you had of this. I'm just like, I'm just like, yes, the two dudes. from jock pussy, right? You're just like, oh yeah, yeah, Kevin. There's slim

pickings. There's a reason I watch straight porn. It's because the gay trans porn on porn hub sucks. That's true. Anyway, there is a lot of trans femme pornography available, but much of it is, makes me feel bad to be the person that I am.

That's a perfect high end. I can't believe we got here. Hell yeah. So we're going to have like... Look at us. This is like our first bullet point, which is because we're like thinking about like info-seeking behavior of queer people, but particularly trans people, at least, you know, it just kind of came out that way. And Anna Valens had a video recently about like, Huta porn and the depiction of the trans feminine body in media and just like erotica

and like how it came from like this sort of fetish thing in Japan to becoming like a trans woman thing in the United States where it's people are like, oh yeah, I could see myself in this. Puta porn also helped me realize I was trans too. Yeah, like, what if I just had a big old woman? Oh, that would be neat. That'd be all right. That'd be nice. That'd be cool.

Yeah. Hintai just made me want to have a second penis. So you could do the Donald Trump dance to yourself. Oh, yeah. Do the thing where you're like, Yeah. So I see the first bullet point question is like, what was our first time that we encountered a trans?

body that wasn't porn. Can you be more specific about trans body? Are we talking about naked or are we talking about like a trans person in general? Trans person. I was just using body in that academic sense. Sure. Sure. My first experience meeting transgender person in the wild in real life was working at

the Renaissance festival and there was a woman who was like on the younger end and kind of just figuring things out, I think, you know? and maybe, maybe transvestite never really spoke to her, but she was met with widespread ridicule among many of the people that I was close to. And I felt awful for her. Like, I was like, that's really shitty that you would try to go to ostensibly a place where you could feel safe and accepted among, you know, because a bunch of freaks in the Renaissance Festival, why the fuck not me?

But like, she's like, you know, lots of jokes, lots of jokes. And that, that I think kind of pushed a lot of shit down for a long time for me. And I'm like, well, you will be, you will be the subject of ridicule if you are to express yourself in that way. And so that kind of put me back in a few years. I remember being in like middle school and watching like daytime television in the summer. And there was like a trans woman on who is just like talking about herself and her experiences. And she was one of those like, oh, it doesn't make sense for us to be lumped in with lesbians and gay people because I'm a straight woman like and all this stuff. And I was very, this is why Lou Sullivan's so important because it's like, the whole establishment was like, strange people can't be also gay.

And Louis Sullivan was like, cool, all right. But I was very deeply religious. But this whole like, oh, this was just a person wrong body and chain fixed it. And they're straight. And that's fine. Like I never had like a bad like negative connotation for that. And then by the time that I started exploring my own gender because of Tumblr, and then I started reading a futa porn, I was like, that sounds neat. And then I like sort of consider myself gender queer since like 16 or 17.

But like in the flesh person, probably college. And like I met that was when there was a lot of like trans, like one of the big trans masculine waves on like Tumblr. And this was in like 2011 and stuff like that. that time period. I feel like there's a lot of like trans masks like former dykes out, like coming out of the woods. And I, and I met one that did not know that I was one yet. That's such a fun experience when you're like, it's almost like meeting yourself from the future. Yeah. If only, if only they knew. Speaking of people knowing, my girlfriend in college no scoped me from a decade back. Like, it was literally like 10 years ago, she just goes, so what's your gender identity?

We had just been to a panel on transgender identity and like, just people talking about their experiences. She goes, so what's your gender? And I go, what do you mean? What do you mean? What's my gender? They drop my voice an octave. What do you mean? What's my gender?

And she's like, no, really think about it. What's your gender? And I'm like, well, I'm sitting here. I'm six feet tall. I got broad shoulders. I got big hands. I got a deep voice. What's my gender?

And she's like, no, think about it. Take a second. And I go, well, fine. I've never been attached to a masculine identity for even half a second in my entire life. But look at me. I'm a guy. And she goes, okay, okay. And just kind of drops it.

And then we never spoke of it again. And then 10 years later, she messages me on Discord and goes, congrats on the gender. With my first girlfriend, when we would have sex, I used to, like, be able to, like, and we didn't like use a strap or anything, but I'd be like, we'd even just be, like, clothes on and just, like, making out stuff and I'd be like I can feel myself having a dick can you feel it like

very very very girly feelings yeah you know very cis girl feelings to have very very cis girl feelings to have like oh god I feel like I have a dick and I'm penetrating you right now isn't it so hot and romantic

and I love you so much oh isn't this intense and wonderful and then I would like cry anytime I used a strap because I couldn't feel it I don't know what these feelings are. Zany. I'm just stone butch, I guess. I'm going to Leslie Feinberg this shit.

Just kidding. J.K. J.K. Use a stone butch is such a mirror universe, J. I know. I was really bad at it. I was really bad at it. I was a top.

He said, lying. He said, I was. I was. I promise. There was a time when I was ostensibly, there was a time when I was ostensibly a six-foot-tall dude with long hair, so everyone was like, that's a dom. And I was like, nope, not really.

All right, let me get the step ladder. Is it imagining me having to dom someone six people? tall. Well, you put me on my fucking knees. That's how you do it. You get me on my fucking knees, Justin. No, I've got some ideas for standing. We're supposed to be standing.

I was talking to another dog. I was getting ideas. Climb like a tree, like literally. Oh, yeah. Stance up, motherfucker. I'm going up. All right. All right, brace.

Like when they test when you do cattas and karate and he like tints up and they hit you like, ugh. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. I did karate. Yeah. I did martial arts for a long time. Very masculine thing that I did.

I think first trans person I was exposed to in any way would have been like, probably just some story about like a trans man giving birth on like the news or whatever on like TLC kind of stuff. Yeah. Trans dad. But honestly, the first person who like, and I'd be like, huh, okay. But the first time I really like had to think about it was probably like Eddie Izard's stand up. Yeah. And that's like transvesticism.

Of course, she's like girl mode now. But like at the same time, it's like it's still a transing of presentation. Yeah. And she was explaining. The male lesbian thing was very telling with her. What's going on. Yeah. Yeah.

I said that a lot. I said that a number of times. Yeah. Twitter is reheated five-year-old Tumblr discourse and Tumblr discourse is reheated Eddie as her jokes from 10 years before. The whole. She no scoped. He, him, lesbian.

be in discourse. Oh, Lord. I remember being on trash future screen one time, stream one time and they were just all talking about something. And Milo Edwards, who's a straight guy, was like, well, surely there aren't he, him, lesbians. And everyone and the chat, everyone stopped what they were doing. And went, Milo, no.

Milo, no, you did it. Milo, no. You said the activation phrase. Shouts out to the he-him lesbians. That's fucking funny. Shouts out to the bisexual trans lesbians. Woo. That's right.

Hell yeah. We're strong contingent. We hold a lot of ground, actually. Yeah. I was reading that one article talking about the percentage, or no, I was talking with some coworkers while I was reading the one article because I do pod work at work, which feels good. Good. Steel time.

Hell yeah. I still time. Must. Simply must. And one of my coworkers was like, how many people are trans? And I was like, well, let me tell you, not that fucking many. And yet they, and yet they like make this, this huge fucking deal. Some like 330 million Americans and 1.3% or 1.3 million identify as trans in the United States.

It's something like that. Yeah. Get off my dick. Why are you so mad? There's not even that many of us. I can't help it that I'm beautiful. Yeah. It's jealousy.

It's got to be. It's a good protest sign for trans women. Get off my dick. Yeah, for sure. It's such a good, yep, I'm going to bring that to the Statehouse. Just get up. Thank you for speaker for letting me have this time. Can I just say that Learning Council, I would like you to get off my dick.

Thank you. And it just goes viral on Twitter. It's like, yeah. So one of these articles I read, and because of like the horrible delay in academic publishing, this first one that I looked at from 2022 was actually the surveys were done before the pandemic. So they were all from like 2019. I thought it was interesting. Yeah, I thought it was interesting because they got mostly trans boys and men as their subject sample, which they weren't trying to do.

Like they just were like, huh, ended up that way. But they were talking about like how they talk about. So they sorted them into those with dating experience and those with no dating experience, which is very interesting. because they would talk about, like, concerns about the ones with dating experience would be like, don't use the apps. It's just not going to work for you right now. Jaded 18-year-olds. Well, it's just like legality. They're like, we're 18.

If you're under 18, please don't be on these apps. Yeah, for real. Also concerned about ending up in long-distance relationships. Miners without dating advice gave more general advice. You know, be yourself, which is good. Good advice, I guess. Kind of got to be. Everyone else is taken, as they say.

say. Those with experience and without both, they both advise not going too fast online. Don't know if they're getting that information from like their general sex ed or just talk on the playground. These are children. I don't know how old children. When did children stop using playgrounds? Like 35? I'm going to try to stop next week. There were some really interesting questions that I thought I pulled more than this. But these were kind of like radio free tote bag questions. I thought I would pull them in here because participants had several questions about safety and trust, which focused on how and when to trust others and how to protect one's personal safety during online partner seeking. One question was, how does sex work before surgery? Do we use a strap on this trans boy? Do we strap on or do we just not have sex at all?

Or do we just do things like kiss our partners? I would feel uncomfortable having sex with a vagina when I want a penis. Fair enough. So if you got that in Radio Free Tope bag. Well, I mean, there's also that really good. So I know that there's the infamous fucking trans women zine. And there's not quite the same equivalent with trans men. But there is this one, I forget who put it out, but this one like pamphlet online that's about men who want to have.

have sex with trans men. And so it's like how trans men can have like gay sex. And it's like things about like what kinds of loops to use and like things about like prep and pep, things about birth control, things about fisting, stuff like that. And that was interesting. But I also have a feeling that a lot of trans men who are maybe older teenagers, just getting starting out or maybe having sex with cis women. And yeah, hand stuff. Hand stuff. That was going to be my answer. It's like, is basically do what you feel comfortable with. Do what you do what feels natural to you. And fondling each other's shit is a pretty natural

outgrowth of like getting into bed with somebody in a sexual context. So hand stuff's a strong contender for your clitoris is a little dick. It's a little wiener. It's good. It's good to have. Yeah.

So it's called Prime, the back pocket guy for trans men and the men who dig them. Yeah, it's really good. It's very, yeah, it's very general. It's not quite got the esoteric like fingering the, the tubes channels that fucking trans women has.

Which, by the way, I don't, I don't know. I don't know if I would like that. I tried it on mine. I did that to a girl who had an orky. I bet I would like it more if I had an orky. If I had an orky. She told me to do it, like pretend her like the rest of her ball sack that was still there was like a vulva kind of. Sure.

And then you could just be like, okay, maybe I'm on team do that now. Yeah. Like she told me to do that. So it seems like better once she had an orky. Sure. You know when you get those little tabs, you pull off the plastic shopping bags, and you stretch them and you make a whistle? Yeah.

Do that with a scrotum? If someone was really into like scrotal torture, do you think you can get it thin enough? See if you get it going to go to burr. Because vulvas and labia are like too thick, I think. Yeah, yeah. I guess it depends on the vulva slash labia. If you had... Justice's really thinking this through.

Yeah. If you're on hormones. Yeah. Skin textures can be a little different. That's true. Yes, it is. And you grip it hard enough, but I mean hard enough. It's quite thick.

Don't grip it hard enough. Some people are into things. Mine is quite thick. Mine is quite thick. Not everyone's is. That's true. That's true. Volvas are a wide tapestry.

I'm talking about ball skin right now. Ball skin. When they do... I must start working on my flexibility. For trans guys, they turn the vulva, like the labia into, they like turn that into the ball sack and they put little implants in there. Because that's what the same skin is, the vulva, like the libya is what the scrotum is. Yeah, I've got it.

We, you know, all penis havers, we have a seam from what used to be, our situation down there used to be a more open format kind of situation than it is right now. Yeah. Open source. The same type of skin. Yeah, same type of skin. Yeah, that neat. Did you put little Bluetooth speakers in there instead?

I probably could. You should do that. That would be really cool. Because I don't want full bottom surgery. I quite like my downstairs situation. For the most part, I don't want it sealed up or anything. I don't want testicles. I would put a little Bluetooth down there.

That sounds fun. You know, like the kind that like pick up energy off of like movement. Oh, hell yeah. A couple of times to recharge them. You should jiggle them around a little bit to, yeah, yeah. No, this is great. We're breaking new ground. We're cooking.

This is a Don Haraway shit. Open source genitals. That's what I'm hoping for. Like, I hope biotech advances far enough that I could just like hot swap my shit. Like, if I want a weaner one day, I can have it. If I want a vagina the next day, I can have that. That would be the dream. I saw porn with a trans guy who had a falloplasty, but kept his pussy.

Sure. And I was like, you can do that? You can do that? And then it, like, changed my whole. life. Yeah. There's also, there's phallus

preserving vaginoplasti for trans women as well. So I'm like, if I can keep my shit and get up a child I want to keep my shit. I want the boat. I want the bones.

Yes. Yes. I want the bone. I want more. I want more. I want more genitals. I don't want to change the ones I have.

I want more. Yes. I'm with the addition please. An add-on. That's a word. Browser extension. Yeah. Yeah.

We really. are the ones that they're right warned everybody about, aren't we? We're there. Exactly. And if you listen to this podcast, you will become one too. It's a cyborg manifesto, but it's like teledildonics is the main focus. I mean, that's just the cyborg manifesto. I found it difficult to read. Well, skill issue.

That's why we did an episode on it. You read it. Thank you. I was saying it's in English, isn't it? Me or Donna Harroway, wherever we're... That's not. You saw some of these articles. I know. I always make that joke whenever somebody said something was hard to read. I'm like, it's in English.

And what, what's the problem? Yeah, there were some other questions. I don't know if they made an appendix of like the questions. No, I hate when journal articles are so outdated. Give me a table with the questions you asked. That's a good journal article in your method section. Or just don't write a journal. Just publish your data and I'll make the conclusions.

Give me an appendix. When I did my master's thesis, you know I put the questions in an appendix. Yeah. So they had lots of questions. So if you could ask a more experienced LGBTQ teen for advice about looking for LGBTQ partners, what would you want to ask them? And so they coded it into three different ones. So one is strategies for relationship seeking. So how do you find gay guys who would date a trans man? They're out there. But also, so this is real. So in my experience, and this is just my own personal experience, I find. find that particularly gay trans men are more concerned with dating cis men, particularly cis gay men, than trans women are, especially if they trans women are lesbians. I feel like trans women are more open to tea for tea than trans men are. For example, I am not T for T because it often gives me dysphoria if like the times I've had sex with trans men. I fuck trans women and it was very fun, but they were like friends, so it wasn't like a sexual attraction thing. It was just like,

hey, you want to fuck? Yeah, sure. It was great. And there's this sort of like, oh, if a gay man wants to fuck me, then I must really be a guy. Right. You know, like, there's like this gender validation where like I just like, I don't know if I've seen trans women have publicly expressed that kind of neuroses as much. Yeah. Because I totally have this neuroses as well. I feel like. So I completely get this. I feel like we get more of our gender validation in the ways in which we are fucked over generally as women. like we get our gender validation by not having pockets and spending more on deodorant you know what I mean like we don't need it necessarily in a sexual contact and it's just like I don't know for me dating tea for tea it's sort of like oh you get the same downstairs mix up I do and you're fucking hot you're like a hot lady I'm looking at you when you're a hot lady and you've got the same shit going on as me then maybe I'm a hot lady let's do this you know like that's kind of how I feel about it yeah seeing like yourself and someone else yes and that's like that's been a big thing that's with like finding identity and like finding my divine feminine if I may use that fucking mystical ass term.

Ursula Kayla Gwynn just like jumps through your window and kicks you kicks my teeth out of my head. But like it's like do I want to date her? Do I want to be her thing? You know what I mean? Like that's a very, very much a part of this of this whole journey that I think a lot of us are on. So yeah.

You know, do I want to date her? Do I want to be here? The answer is yes. I want to do both. And I am. That was a breakthrough. Then I had the, oh, it's the both actually. Yeah. Because I was like, am I actually gay now? Or is this just guys I think are hot and I want to look like that? No, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just gay. But, yeah, I mean, the one, the one week that I went on Grindr in the very beginning of the pandemic, I have nothing against Grindr. I'm just not necessarily like a seeking out hookups person. If I go to a bar, I have hooked up with people at bars before, but I don't necessarily seek hookups on an app. I'm horny, but I can masturbate very well. So I don't necessarily need that. But like when I was on Grindr, it was very obvious.

And I know there's a lot of discourse around chasers and if they're bad or not. They have their uses. I'll say, that's how I feel about them. They have their uses. But it was very obvious when, a guy was attracted to me and found it very hot that I had a pussy and was actually attracted to that. And a guy who only focused on that to the point where I was just a pussy attached to a person. Yes.

Fetishizing the genitalia versus. Like, I want my genitalia fetishized, but in the context of also liking the rest of me. Right. I need that. I need that too. Like, I like my transness to be something that is. arousing to people. I don't want it hand waved over. I want someone to be like, it is very hot that your body is this way. And I like that your body does this thing and looks

this way. We had a good conversation about that with left at London when she came on her. Oh, when she came on her. I love her. She's great. She was a lot of fun. We had a really good discussion about chasers and that end of things. And that's basically where we came to in that discussion, it was like, as long as you're not solely there for my genitals, then I'm okay. Yeah. I want, like, I, especially like when I would like read like fanfic or something, I, I hate the whole like, oh, I don't care what you have. Yeah.

It's wonderful no matter what. Like, sure, but I want someone to be like, it is so fucking hot that your setup is exactly like a guy with that setup. Yeah. Yeah. I like that it does. Like, that, that is, to me is better. And some people would maybe consider that.

chasery. And if it is, then fuck it, whatever. But maybe, maybe more the, like, like the acknowledgement of the gender of the person first, followed by a hotness of their genitals. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I will say that, like, I've met, I've actually had, like, more success on, like, Tinder and stuff. Like, my, I had an ex I was with for quite a long time than I met on Tinder. You don't have to limit yourself to buy guys or to gay guys, trans guys. Buy guys are they. there. Every, every guy I've dated since coming out has been bye. So like, bye guys are great. And I used to be very insecure about that when I first started transitioning. I'm like,

well, if, you know, do they only, are they only okay with my setup because they're also into girls. And so that's why they're okay with my pussy. Like, I had that hang up. And that's just like a personal hang up. You got to get over. And it's, it's okay to feel that way, right? You know what? I do worry about that with bi-girls specifically. It's like, are they like, yeah. Yeah, it's like, would they be okay with fucking me if they weren't also into the other gender? Right, into my stuff, yeah.

But like, I feel like trans men who are into men feel like, oh, if I can't get a gay guy, then. What are we even fucking do in here? What am I fucking do it here? It's like, no, like, and just because that guy is bi doesn't, like, I always ask like, I'm always like, hey, by the way, I'm trans. Is that okay? Because sometimes people are still weird about it. But most of them, they're like, yeah, that's fine.

But I give a shit. Yeah, it's great. So I would say, just like, just do what you adorably do. Yeah. And then a guy will find you. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, like, having been a person who's had sex with men as a woman and as a man,

like, it's very obvious when a guy, like, now that. that I'm a man who has sex with men, the way that men who see me as a man interact with my body. Even when I'm as like a bottom, right? Like even as someone who's like bottoming, like the way that they like interact with my downstairs is like different than the way that men would interact with it when I was living as a woman. Yeah, absolutely. So like that's like it's very easy to tell if when you were having sex with someone what they see. you as. Yeah, how they think of you. Because like, I'm getting head as a guy from a guy was a fucking nightmare for me. Because it's just like, it's just all, all suction and speed and just like, I'm like, what the, why, why does it feel this way? I hate this. And then they, like, I feel like

guys take their time more with my body and like are more careful with me in a way that I really enjoy, actually. Yeah. I remember once with an ex, He was like, I know you said that like wearing the strap made you just for it. So I never asked if you would wear it even when I was fucking you. Like not asking me to fuck him. But he's like, would you wear it so I could like suck you off and like fuck you while you're wearing it? And I was like, yes. And like that was like a really like because he was like, listen, I love having sex with you so much.

But I miss cock a little. Like I want like, I want, you know, I'd be like, well, I got right. like, I want my hair. It was like, great. Like, having, like, him go down on me while I had, like, a strap on. Like, it's very obvious. And, like, I know that, especially if you are a trans guy who still uses your downstairs mix up and that it can, like, feel like, oh, no, I'm getting eaten out.

Or I'm like, you know, like, it can be like, oh, how is this different? But, like, I don't know. It's, it's, there's vibe checks around. Yeah. Yeah. Someone is, yeah. That's why this is so, this is so difficult to talk about, without getting into like really detailed like this is how I am treated in these circumstances like

because it's all it's all very vibes based it's not it's not academic baby is is deeper yeah I don't know and like I had never had sex as a man well I had had sex when I started transitioning but I didn't think I was a guy yet I was in a non-binary nebulous phase and I'm still binding and both of those times were with women and it was weird And that's what made me realize I wasn't into women anymore. And I didn't have sex with a guy until I had already had top surgery. So I don't know that experience of having the chest interacted with as a man because I'm flat now. But because I was like, I don't want to have sex until I'm at least got these chopped off.

Right. I had been with a guy who was early in his transition when I was like, the egg had. just cracked and I'm like, okay, I think I know what my name is, but I haven't changed anything else. Like I, you know. I didn't know what my name was. I'm going to buy some clothes, I guess is what's next. But do you want to get Indian food and fuck? And he's like, yeah.

And at one point, he goes, he's like wearing a binder. And he goes, this thing is uncomfortable as fuck. Can I take this off? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure. And so he takes a binder off. And there's just, they're there. And I like, I like, I like boobs a lot. And I was like, can I?

And he goes, what? And I go, can I play with your boobs? He's like, I mean, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, good, good. And I did that and it was good and cool. But, like, I tried to like... Nipples are fun and great. Yeah, I tried to treat them like masculine nipples.

Do you know what I mean? Like, the way you would engage with masculine nipples, despite the fact that they're on female present feminine breasts. Yeah, exactly. Ask them about the game. See them jaguars? And you're just like, wait, me, me. That's going to have that deck's coming along.

Yeah, no, I wore, I would do a sports bra before I had top surgery. The times that I had sex, I just put a sports bra on instead so that I wasn't dying. Yes, so that it wasn't like hell. Because I was, listeners, I was a 36 double G and I would find it. That was not comfortable. So I had sex, I had a sports bra. Jay had the double Gs.

You were huge. It was not fun. No, I imagine. That sounds awful. Tell me what it's like to have giant boobs because I wanted to know. They weren't very full. And so they didn't look good when I was naked. They were just like flat almost.

And like, yeah, no, I, they would, they lived in my armpit when I was laying down. I once had an X said that the texture was like pizza dough. Oh. Yeah. Don't say things like that to another person. I know. I still have like really bad stretch marks. I think I damaged, you know, and I have like bad connective tissue anyway, so that probably didn't help.

They're okay. They're homegrown. I'm doing okay with what I got going on. Seriously, if there was anything, it would be like, if there could just be like a titty exchange. Yeah. I like so, so many like of like the trans women I've like known or been friends with. It's just like, like, I know so many people, it's like, if you could just literally transfer from like the trans. man or the non-binary person who doesn't want them to the woman who just really fucking wants him.

Like that would be scientists get on it. Scientists for real. It would be life-changing, I'm sure. Yeah. Should be able to just go down and pick some up, you know? Like slap them on. I'd love that. Yeah.

I remember like I first had made the appointment to get a reduction instead of getting them chopped off because I wasn't sure. I was like, but what if I get him chopped off and I want him back? and eventually I was like, you know what? If down the road, if I wanted back, I'll just get implants or something. Yeah. And then, yeah. That's the worst case scenario.

Yeah, I kind of had that too. I was like, okay, so I'm going to start E and what if I grow boobs and I hate them? And it's like, well, you can just get a mastectomy, you know, worth case scenario. Get them lipoed out. Yeah, just get them done. Just slurp them out. They just literally just do, they just do lipo. That's why.

They just cut it and they lipo it and then they like contour it. Sure. Yeah, that's very fun. Yeah. I, my experience has been a lot of joy. My favorite thing is like, the big concern among right wingers is like, yeah, but what if you regret it? It's like regret feeling at home in my body for the first time in my entire life. Yeah, I might regret that at some point. You fucking chuds. Also, like, do you know the rate for knee surgery? The regret reneat for knee surgery is like 15 fucking percent. Right. It's wild to the like, the like, elective surgeries that people are like, you'll regret it. No, it's like, you know what the regret rate for children is? Oh my God. 100%. No, I like, also it's like if I was able to like body mod my body already, can't I not just mod it again? Right. Right. Your body is a malleable plastic thing. Yeah. You can do stuff. I am but flesh. Yeah. Fucking A. And your gender is. And that's why I'm going to get that second dick. There you go. Trace your bliss.

Phalos preserving phalloplasty. You get the same like scar on your forearm that friends guys get. You get a bonus. You get a bonus. You get to inflate it. But did any of you actually see the Reddit thread of the dude who actually had two dicks? Yeah. Of course.

Classic. Okay, good. Because like that was some A plus content there. I have two dicks. AMA. This is fascinating. Yes. Like I have a boyfriend and a girlfriend.

I'm like, yeah. Seriously. I want that life. Yeah. All right. Jay actually sent me something Brum earlier, which I thought was an interesting question

and more library related than a lot of the stuff I was looking at. So there's this researcher called Rothbauer, and she was doing research back in 2004 on, like, her master's thesis and was focused on, like, this research that she did with a sample of 17 lesbians between the ages of 1823,

specifically who liked to read. And her whole thing, you know, I was just, I, assume there's, there's gamer, lesbians or something. Hi. That involves reading. You got Dark Souls?

What did you say to June? Oh, yeah. You got a PS4 and she said, and Bloodborn. Bloodborn, that was so Riz. That was me. That was Riz. That was amazing. That's me.

Right on stage, too, in a performance, killing it. Yeah. Hey, got to do what you got to do. Yeah, you got to shoot or shoot. Yeah, she just got to shoot. Anyway, I thought it was really interesting. Some of the things from this research that she pulled from her thesis, which was like fanzines and online sites, especially around like Buffy because Buffy had a very early lesbian relationship.

But it was funny because most of the respondents were like, no, I'm attracted to Buffy. The Willow thing's interesting, but I want to fuck Buffy, which was very funny. I mean, she's she's hot-coated. Yeah. But anyway, yeah. Yeah, Robbauer did. Yeah, yeah. Have you seen Vampire at Willow? Come on.

Yeah, come on. I was more of a Willow girl, personally, actually. I can see that. Yeah. She's just like me for real. She's just like you for real. But a research... That's when you dress like that.

Hey, I mean, you've seen me. I honestly do dress like Willow. I'm probably to be perfectly honest. You need to get the big overalls, too. Style icon. Yeah, I should get the big overalls. But that's NB coded. But I guess I am NB trans femme.

Like, I do consider myself non-binary to a certain degree. It's also Mario coded. That's true. I mean, don't worry about it. I get to do the hands. Yeah. But anyway, her research is really interested on, like, the process of reading and what reading, how it interacts, because one of the theories of reading is, like, reading fiction

is an escape for queer people. And her thing is, like, no, actually reading is community building and self-discovery for lesbians who are reading in this group. So I had some questions just kind of based on like her, because she doesn't come back to this like specific queer aspect. She keeps focusing in her career on like, what is reading time? Like, how do you interact with the passage of time when you're reading,

like stuff like that? So what did you do for reading and finding yourself? Was reading an escape or was it recognition? Did you build community by reading? Much of the reading that I did was specifically of like trans autobiography in the form of like social media posts. So that was all, that was very much like self-discovery. That was like, like I said, she just like me for real, like reading about women's experience of discovering their gender and then rediscovering their sexuality in the context of that gender and going, wow, okay.

So this is all ahead of me. I'm so fucking stoked. Yeah, I remember being in high school. And I will include movies in this as well. But like the books and movies that I got into in high school when I started getting into queer stuff. It was not about escape. I have never been an escapist type of person with fiction. It was very much about discovery of either like watching or reading things that were like an established, not finding myself or what I could be in them, but knowing that this movie or book was like something that queer people liked.

And so I would watch it or read it and then was like, oh, now I'm a little bit more into this community. I know this reference now. I like this thing that these other people like it's like learning a language. 100%. Almost like that aspect of community building. That's why I have like the tastes of like someone in the like 80s or 90s or something. Like I just I just watch like Todd Haynes films and Derek Jarman movies. And like I don't know about fucking.

in any of these, like, trans-girly pop stars that y'all listen to now. Like, I'm like, no, I just, I just want to watch Blue on repeat. And watch Head Vig, you know? I mean, I want to redo, or bound. I want to redo Rocky Horror, but, like, all of the songs are hyperpop somehow. I think that would be. I saw Rocky Horror in fifth grade. That's bad.

Well, that did it. Yeah, that did it. That's my favorite movie ever since. I've got a tattoo. I was frank in college. I think that. Yeah. But yeah, so for me, it was very much about not escape and not even recognition of myself,

but of learning a language of like a shared, like, cultural memory. That's so. That's so hot. That's what it was. Yeah. Although I did also read like, and this is when I thought I was like a dyke too. So I did read like middle sex. And I was like, this is making me feel things that I don't understand why.

Oh, no. I'm very mad that she decided to be a boy at the end. Why does this make me? And, like, just being weird about it. And then I got really into, like, lesbian pulp fiction in grad school and shit. Oh, yeah. Like, I own, like, Bebo Brinker and all that. But, yeah, I mainly got into stuff that, like, gay dudes liked.

And then I, like, a lot of the movies. And then also, like, Bound. And, like, I love Bound. I own Bound on VHS. Like, a screener copy of Bound. Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. Or like I got into showgirls, that movie.

I never saw that. I'm like, it's like what are my favorite movies? Woefully disconnected from this community through, through film and stuff. But like, fucking Dark Souls is a trans-girly thing. That's like, I don't know what video games are. See, that's for, oh, fuck, we do. I just watch Perry Grant movies.

I can tell you all about the furtive pygmy so easily forgotten. I can tell you all about the soul of manis. I can tell you all about these things. I got bringing a baby on Blu-ray. I just went gay all of a sudden. Like I had kind of an epiphany about reading because like I started reading gay romances before I realized I was by or gender fluid. And I felt really guilty because I was like I felt like I was exploiting something that I shouldn't have been exploiting. Right.

Because there's the whole like, you know, a lot of like that sort of romance is written. Bujoshi say is written towards like cis women, right? So like I was just like I'm one of those. And it was just about the time that I was trying to figure out like that like queer people like existed because being raised Mormon sucked. But like it's so I was like reading like and like and my tastes haven't changed that much. I still when I read romance, which I read quite a lot of, I still tend to go towards like men. And for a long time I was just like this is really weird because like. Cox are hot. Right. And then and then I realized I was just like, oh no, it's a gender thing. It's not an attraction thing. It's like I don't get to have that experience, at least not in my current body and configuration. So it was more of like a curiosity. Like not even necessarily a curiosity. It was a way to satisfy that part of my weird gender shit without having to like get angsty about it, if that makes sense. And it's the same reason as. like as a writer, I also like to write romance. I tend to go towards male characters. So it's just like, oh no, it's a, it's a gender expression thing. Like the whole explosion angle could be, you know, I'm sure there are plenty of arguments to be had about that. But that was kind of the thing that made my brain click and go, okay, so I'm not fucking somebody else over by enjoying this. I was just like, I had to kill the gender cop in my own brain, if that makes sense.

Yeah. Which is like, and I should have seen it coming because like growing up, like, I really loved, like, books where, like, a woman pretends to be a, or like a girl pretends to be a boy to, like, become a night and shit. And also, Ronma One Half was like, if I could, like, it's just, it's just hot and cold water. I would fucking love that shit. Yeah. I should have realized a lot sooner. But, you know, again, again, the religious suppression. But yeah, so it shouldn't have been a surprise, but it was. I remember, I actually, I remember hearing about, sorry, we keep doing that to each other. I'm so sorry. I remember hearing about Romma one half and specifically avoiding it because I was like, oh, I remember. gender bending shit, that's gonna make me feel stuff. Like I remember like, there was like a feeling of like that being sort of titillating or like satisfying of something in me, but like being real fucking afraid of it. And so specifically like seeing the Ronma one half DVD case at the at the Hollywood video

up the street from my house and like wanting so badly to pull the trigger on that, but like knowing that I wasn't ready or like couldn't do it at that point, you know. Yeah. Yeah, with me, it was like, there's the trope, I would say, of queer trans men realizing they are thus by reading and or writing slash fic. Right? The, you know, Fujosi to queer man pipeline, basically. But I didn't read, really read, like, romance, especially between men or fanfic until after I started transitioning. And I started reading it because, like, I was one of those like, okay, I'm straight.

no, I'm bi. No, I'm a lesbian. No, I'm by. No, I'm a lesbian. Like, I was one of those people. And I was like, I don't like having sex with men. I can't look at penises. It's weird. I'll have sex with one. That's fine. But I don't want to look at it or really interact with it. Except when it's like in me. That's fine. But I don't want to like, there was like a lot of like anxiety. So I was like, am I into men again? I better test this. And so I read like romance and like slash fic of dudes being like, okay, do I like this? That's so funny. It was like research. So, yeah, it's just like I know so many trans guys realize they are thus because they are really into like slash check and stuff, at least now. That's now available. Is that when you're reading Think of England? Yes. And all of the KJ Charles stuff.

KJ Charles is like probably my favorite romance author. The Magpie Lord? Yeah. Okay. I've read those. Those are good. Yeah. I don't really like the magpie lord ones as much, but her one think of England is really good.

As well as I love the series that's like based off of Penny Dreadfuls. That one's really good. But yeah, like I read her stuff. Cat Sebastian, very good. And then I read captive prints and it ruined me. God, it's so, yeah, it's ruining. It's so good. When they started to sell you much, I've got, I've got an adequate mug.

I'm so jealous. And I've got a bracelet that says a kingdom. or this on it and it's a gold. God, I'm jealous. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I have brain worms because of captive prince. Captain Prince is what got me writing slash again. I wrote a lot of slash as a... It's so good. I wrote a lot of slash as like a in my early 20s when I was like in a phase of doing that. And then I like didn't for years and years. And then I read captive friends and it fucking unlocked something in my brain again.

And I was like, all right. That's why I see. Writing fanfic was because of captive prints, I was like, I have these feelings and ideas, and I have to get them out somehow. Yep. They'll make these two people kiss, you know? No kiss. No kiss. That was a lot of the information-seeking behavior in the Rothbauer paper as well from 2001, 2003 was the period.

The period studied, and a lot of the was people just hung out in fan sites of the things that they really liked, like X-Files and Buffy, and just talked about X-Files and Buffy all. day. And we're like, this is how I find out. Yeah. I probably would not have figured out I was queer if I had not been on LiveJournal. I was Tumblr and it was, I mean, I figured I was queer because of Tumblr. But then the trans thing was unfortunately because of call me by your name. Yeah. Call me by your name made me realize I was trans. But that's a good movie and a good book. And it's unfortunate about Army Hammer. I'm legitimately sitting here thinking about what, what, I mean, mean, it was like liking dudes that got me to thinking that I was queer and, like, being attracted to, to the other guy. Like, I don't know what, like, media or, like, where I was that

kind of opened that up for me. I just kind of, like, accepted it as elemental about myself. And then it was like a switch flipped. Yeah, I was like, oh. I'm into this now. I remember being, I was, I was in, like, sixth grade. And, like, another kid on the playground asked me, like, so are you gay? And I was like, I don't know, maybe. I think I like girls, too. That's where that's where that shit was for me. And then like the gender shit was just like it was in the air and I was breathing it all the time. But I couldn't know what the fuck it was.

And then it took face app. It took a lot of experiences with, we'll call it boutique pornography that sort of cracked that shit open and led me to where I am today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm queer because of Tumblr. Like I was on Tumblr in 2009, 2010. And it was in the air and I learned about things like genderqueer and gender fuck and all that.

Yeah. Oh, well, I feel weird about my gender and I'm not a girly girl, but hmm. And then I remember one night I went to bed and in my head it was like a switch flipped. And it said, you like girls? And I went, no, I don't. Do I? And then I went to a dance competition and I remember sitting there in the audience because I did competitive dance and I was just like sitting in the audience. And I saw like a girl, like, do the splits.

And I was like, ugh. Yo! I was like, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah. And then it took a while for that to, I remember my gender therapist was like, it's impossible for you to be straight, I think. I'm like, yeah.

Because I was like, oh, no, if I'm a guy, am I straight now? And then I started liking dudes. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, thank God. Yeah, I don't know. Well, it was me starting to like men again that made me realize I was a guy, because I was like, this feels different than the times I like men before.

Yes. Yes. The liking of. the liking of guys feeling different than the liking of girls, and that context changing again after my gender transition, that is a very interesting web of feelings that I don't know that I've fully parsed at this point. They're like the same thing, like my gender and sexuality, like I can't untangle them. Yeah.

They're like just the same thing to me. Yeah. I know. Like I'm not a man. I'm a gay guy, you know? I know that being into girls as a girl, like, to me, rocks harder. Like I feel like, you know, I feel way cooler. about it.

Yeah. I love being gay. Yeah. It's great. It kicks ass. It's fucking rad. It kicks fucking ass, dude. I love, like, leather and I, I love fucking, I don't know, like, Liza Minnelli.

Yeah. I love having the body that I have and being really tender in bed. Do you know what I mean? Like, being as big as I am and being, like, very tender. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm. It's kind of kicks ass. Where yeah, Justin, what are you reading?

You look at, you're just looking at my soundboard. just seem like I can throw it trying to snipe it trying to snipe the moment trying to snipe something just so it's just I don't know no no no yeah I mean I think to wrap up one of the things that

this just turned into me and Audrey talking about our transition which is a type of info seeking this is how trans people figure this shit out as we talk to each other I think this is genuinely going to be helpful to somebody if not if not a listener than me

or like like just speak like I know like so many trans people even if it's like a trans femme and a trans mass like talking even though our transition experiences are different and still like oh you went through this too or oh it's like this for you oh it's like this for me instead yeah like so value I have shepherded so many a trans femme through the beginning of her transition because it's like if I knew someone grow like from my hometown or my area I'm like the only trans person those people know and so they reach out to me and so they reach out to me and. I love, this has happened to me a few times. I love it when somebody hits you up and goes, I think I'm a girl. And you're like, okay, okay, all right, calm down. It's okay. We're going to get through this. It's going to be okay.

We're going to figure this out together. Were you going to say something, Sadie? Oh, no. Yeah. I think in conclusion, librarians. So the reason I'm so into this topic is, like, I studied a lot of info seeking from a master's thesis and, like, info seeking and question formation. right? And I feel like in librarianship, when we think of information seeking, we think of, oh, a student or a patron has a research question, and they're looking up information about it in the databases, TM, and here's the Boolean, and here's how you do it. But there's other types of information, and there's other types of sources that people might find information. We talked a little bit about this in the Info Shop episode, where there's like types of information. that like you as a library worker should,

even if like you can't provide that information, you should be able to take, if a patron has a specific information need, you should be able to go, oh, we don't have that kind of resource here. However, here is where you should go. Or here's what you should look up instead. Like the library databases don't have this.

And you can't look this up on the library computers because of stupid reasons. But when you get home, if you have a computer, you could look this up. or there's this resource in town or whatever. Like, it's important as library workers to be at least a kind of familiar with, like, okay, if someone has, like, a question about, like, sexuality and they're queer, like, where might you direct them? How do you help that kind of patron and information need?

Yeah. Because people have information needs outside of a traditional library context. and sexual and gender information is just as important as someone writing a research paper. Yeah. And I think the availability of that information through like literature and things like that is like, of course, one of the main things that they, that the opposition wants to eliminate because that's where we figure shit out is through media and through. Why do you think they're doing book bands?

Yeah. And talking to each other and forming community and deciding these things are. affirming that these things are true about ourselves, like these things that we feel like we are... He didn't Elon buy Twitter because he was like, oh, my trans daughter is trans because she caught the woke mind virus off Twitter. Right.

Good. I'm glad she did. Yeah. He should go out of 4chan instead, if I'm being honest. You know, if he wanted to nuke it. So yeah. But, yeah. And becoming an anti-vexer for the social contagion theory of transness.

Like, no, there's no cure. You need, you need, we need herd immunity. Everyone needs to, everyone needs to meet a trans person. Yeah. And make out with them. The only way to make sure no one transitions is that everyone transitions. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's not one they'll gain a short story.

And when everyone's queer, then no one will be. I mean, isn't that the kind of angle of queer theory? Kind of, yeah, it's anti-category, but I was just doing a reference to the movie The Incredibles by Pixar. Oh. Where he turns everyone into a superhero. But it's been a long time since I've seen it. Is he a little queer icon, the one who's the bad guy in that? I'm sure someone wants to fuck him in a gay way.

He reads, I think he's a little queer-coated, maybe. He's a little queer-coated villains. Yeah. He looks like that Republican strategist who does all the polling. Frank Luntz. Yeah, he looks like Frank Luntz. He does look like Frank Luntz. He looks exactly like Frank Luntz.

That's really fucked. Always is, I've always just been like, who the fuck does he look like? It's just always sitting in the back of my head for years. And then we figured it out. Proud of us. Go team. Go team six. Audrey, do you want to plug anything additional aside from your podcast?

Let me tell you about that. this. If you have information seeking needs and you are a queer person, head on over to RFTB.Me to access the radio free tote bag backlog, show about relationships, heartfelt, good advice, as well as goofy japes, go check it out. RFTB.mere, anywhere you find your podcast. Additionally, if you want to have some more talk between transfemms, you can find that at data transfer, anywhere you find your podcast. It is a trans feminine reading of the Digimon Adventures animated series that I do with my lovely partner, Corla, which I'm actually going to go record an episode of right after this. So that's going to have a very good energy, I think. So be on the lookout

for that data transfer, anybody you find your podcasts. Oh, and at Odd on Blue Sky and at RFTB, Audrey on Twitter. Dems the plugs. We've been on there on both of those shows. Yeah. Yeah. I was really high on my episode, but I feel like it was a good episode. Yeah. You love it. That's where the Poguman that came from. That's where the gopug. Yeah. The gobopog. That's what it was from there.

Pogamon. I don't know. I don't know if I could ditch you on. But yeah, that was my episode. Yeah. He's a good boy. I use that emoji fucking constantly. I know you do.

I really was hoping that Squatch Pog would take off more, but people don't really seem to like him. But that Sasquatch doing the, he's got his lips out. It's very funny. It's in the Cryptozoology Museum. Yeah. In Portland, Maine. Damn, you check it out. Yeah.

It's the only reason to go there because I don't think I'm ever going back. So check out the Cryptons Ullachian Museum. Go check that out. I want to thank you guys for having me. This has been a lot of fun. I love any time I get to talk about, like, violently queer shit. That's like my favorite topic. Hell yeah.

Hell yeah. Now, listen, you. The radio, stop calling a crypto net. Let's call you in your goddamn face. Let's stay plastered. Justin, I need to make you. I need to make you watch that. So, Audrey, if you could not tell that, was Gorvidal.

Okay. And William Buckley. That sounds great. Yeah. So there was, I forget what ear was, but there was like the presidential debates happening. And the news media decided, oh, what if before the actual real debates of conventions, we had Gorbidol, who was a lefty Democrat person. And William Buckley, right wing person, these are two intellectual titans. A Yale failure.

who wrote a book complaining about how the deacon at Yale's official deacon wasn't a Christian enough for him. And so they like, but he was like held up as like the like intellectual Republican icon, right? And so they would have debates before the real presidential debates and stuff. And the reason, like our news media is the way it is now because of this, right? And there's a good documentary about this called Best of Enemies. And there's one of them that they like had the tapes destroyed and did not air, but some, preserved some of it somehow, where they're, like, arguing, and Gore Vidal calls William Buckley a crypto-Nazi because he is. And Gorvidal is a bitchy little bisexual queen, and we loved him.

I love Gorvadol. He's my favorite bad gay. Every Gorvadol clip I've ever seen him and just in love with the dude. I love him. I was listening to a Gorvidal audiobook when I had my car wreck. It was great. My head on collision, that's how gay I am. And I was a dyke at the time. I was listening to a Gorvidal audio book. I was bad at being a dyke. But William Buckley goes, listen here,

you queer. You keep calling me a crypto-Nazi and you'll sock you in your goddamn face and you'll stay plastered. And Gorfidal is just like laughing because he knows he's one now. Yeah, he's just got him. He just fucking nailed him. And William Buckley was like,

you better have these destroyed. And they were. They were like the tapes were destroyed. It wasn't aired. But you can watch it on YouTube. That kicks ass. William Buckley calling Gorvadole a queer. Listen here, you queer.

In that like Mid-Atlantic voice, right? Yeah, it's great. I love that. Yeah. So, that's, Justin tried getting the drop, but it's like they talk over each other so much that it's hard to. Maybe with the power of AI, we can separate their two voices. I mean, probably actually, there is like an AI, like the same kind of tool that, that new Beatles song that helped isolate John Lynn's vocals from the rest of the track. I keep hoping that acapellas and instrumentals are going to get more widely available with AI being able to separate those two.

Yeah, because that like Beatles won. It wasn't that like they took a John Lennon AI voice. It's just like this already existing tool that helps separate the vocals from the rest of the track. That was a little magnified with AI to help it a bit more. That's what I'm saying. I want to be able to make more chocolate rain edits and I need more instrumentals available from various songs that don't have instrumental versions released. Exactly.

Yeah. This is like the actual good use of like that kind of technology. That's the art. That's the art. Not the generative AI shit. That's the art is when you can use tools like that to make audio more usable and then make tracks out of them. Yeah.

Thank you for coming to my tip talk. Yep. All right. I'm going to cut it here. Thanks, Audrey, for coming on. Thanks for having me. Good night.