Life in Colour - 10: Navigating Life’s Transitions with Jo Clark: From Midlife Shifts to Menopause

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

In this episode of Life in Colour, I’m joined by Jo Clark, a former educator turned coach and mentor, who’s passionate about helping women 40+ navigate life’s transitions with confidence and purpose. We talk about her journey from teaching to creating a career she loves, the different seasons women go through—like preparing for life beyond raising kids—and how to care for yourself through peri and menopause. If you’ve ever wondered how to embrace midlife with energy and ease, this conversation is for you. Where to Find Jo: Connect with Jo on Instagram @joclarkcoaching and listen to her podcast, Redefining Midlife, available on all major platforms. You can also learn more about her coaching and programs at https://www.joclarkcoaching.com/. Email: [e-mail] Redefining Midlife Podcast Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/redefining-midlife-with-jo-clark/id1639982925 Redefining Midlife Podcast Spotify  - https://open.spotify.com/show/0Lw1ILK0laPxG0cf3mQlvj   Australian Women Speakers - https://womenspeakers.com.au/queensland/sunshine-coast/%EF%BB%BFspeaker/jo-clark

Welcome to Life in Color, the podcast where we dive into the real, raw and wonderfully colorful aspects of life. I'm your host, Ashley, and I'm here to explore the ins and outs of seasonal color analysis, navigating motherhood, thriving in your 40s and beyond, and embracing health and wellness with a healthy dose of humor. Join me as we uncover the secrets behind finding your perfect palette, share stories of the joys and challenges of being a mom. And from practical tips to heartfelt conversations, life in color is your space to laugh, learn and live life. unapologetically in all of its colorful hues. So grab your favorite drink, settle in and let's add some color to this adventure that we call Life in Color.

Hi everybody and welcome to this week's episode on Life in Color. Today I'm joined by Joe Clark, a presenter, coach and mentor who helps women 40 plus navigate life transitions, including menopause with confidence and purpose. With over 30 years in education, she now empowers women to live energized, healthy lives through her reimagined program, workshops and mentoring. She also is the host of the redefining midlife podcast, which is ranked in the top 5% globally, where she challenges outdated midlife stereotypes,

and I am just so excited to have her on the podcast today. So welcome, Joe, to the Life in Color podcast. Thanks so much for having me, Ashley. I'm looking forward to our conversation today. Me too. Now, you and I have spoken off-camera quite a bit, actually, recently, and where I would love to start, actually, where you and I were talking and stopped. So I'd love to know about your background, how you ended up

in teaching, because obviously you were a teacher for over 30 years. And then we will then move into where you are now, but I'd just love to get an idea of where you started out. And you just told me that you actually were on the land, because Joe lives in my favourite place in Australia, which happens to be Nusa. It's our lifelong dream to end up there. And I assumed that she had always been there, but she just told me that she actually had a life on, did you say 60,000 acre property? Yeah. So let's start there. That was one of them. Yeah, okay. We might have to do a little bit of rewind because that was part way through, through being the age I am now, I'm now 57. Yeah, you seem to, and you get a bit of a fright when you go, oh, I'm 57. But yeah, there's a fair bit of life that's

happened before I hit there. But teaching, that was something I always wanted to do. I think from about the age of eight. It was something I loved learning and I loved sharing that. So for me, it was a really natural progression. In fact, I didn't even think of, I wanted to be a magician at about the grade, about the age of four. Past that point, it was teaching. And so I went through university and I was a baby when I went to uni. I was only 17 in my, just turned 17 in my first year of University. Yeah. So I graduated and was in my first classroom at the tender age of 20. Wow. I know. A baby teaching baby. Yeah. That's it. I look at my phone. It's being such a grown up at like such a young age. Yes. Yes. Well, grown up. Yeah, possibly.

Maybe not. I know any growing up. But yeah, I was I love teaching. It was always teaching the primary school age kids and I love children from around about that age of 7, 8, 9. That was my sweet spot there. And I was always in rural and remote schools. I have never taught in a large metropolitan school ever. So my progression was really going from teaching in a classroom and then moving on to a small school principal position, which was in a very remote part of Queensland. It was a small The year that before I got there was only seven kids who were at the school. The year I started, it turned to 20 because there was a boarding hostel attached that the children could go to. The distance ed kids could go to during the week and then go home on weekends.

And I grew that then to there were 29 children from grade one all the way through to grade seven. So that was really massive. Thank God I got a second teacher. But that then I'd met my husband by that stage, my boyfriend, that I met the year where I got. there. And yeah, we then created a life on the family property that he had. And we grew that. We ended up having another second property actually that was more sizable. So we had a lot of land. And yeah, it was a remote life. So when you're living in a remote area, of course, you know, you just absolutely crave human connection and being with other people. And I had to finish my one.

Once the children came along, I had to stop what I was doing as far as the teaching was going because the property and the school were just too far away. So the children were on distance ed for quite some time. But again, I had to do something with my brain because, you know, as I said, I love learning. I need to do something. And, you know, it was the middle of the drought. We also had to have a bit more of an income stream. So, yeah, I ended up doing a little bit more study. And I was able to teach teacher aids.

Yeah. through the TAFE system, not the state education system. So teaching teacher aids, back to work schemes. And it was, yeah, it was a lovely, lovely little mix. And the children then were on to distance ed. But, you know, as I said, the life on the land is fabulous. There are so many benefits. I could talk on the benefits all day,

but there's also the difficulties that come from it. It's very isolating. And we were on an isolated property. We had no young neighbours around us. and the young people were leaving with families. You know, I'd travel two hours to a play group that you'd be there for two hours with the kids and my kids loved exploring. So, you know, they were up the trees and over the fences and didn't get to speak to anyone,

bundled them back in, two hours back home. And that was my social connection and their social connection. So, you know, that's, that for some is a great way of living, but it's. Yeah, it's certainly, well, for me, that's polar opposite to anything I would have ever known or experienced. And most Australians actually, Ashley, you know, I have no idea. I think that the closest for me that I probably came to that is I went to St Margaret's in Brisbane, which even today, that is still one of the boarding houses, whilst a lot of them have now closed. That's still one of the main ones. And so I got to

meet a lot of girls who were on the land and their families, were on properties and in the most remote, like you, the most remote places. And it's been really interesting to see how many have gone back to the land after coming into the city and doing school and doing uni and then going back and then those who have transitioned to actually, you know what, I'm going to stay in the city. So then how did you end up in Nusa? We had, once the children, because I taught my daughter on distance said for three years and my son prep year, the introductory, it's called different things in different states.

so the year before you start formal schooling, taught him there as well. And then by that stage, you know, the drought had really, really hit. And we were one of the only younger couples in our district left. It was hard. And so we decided we'd leave there, probably more was pushed from me because, you know, my husband, his life was the land and the family place. But, yeah, we made the decision to move. And so we moved to another not remote place,

but a smaller rural school. You know, we still had 300 acres there. The kids could go to school. But it was one of those things that only went to grade 10. Really wasn't a very academic school. And our kids were both very academic one. And my daughter very good culturally with music and singing and the arts. And my son was very sporty.

So, you know, it couldn't offer them what a bigger school could. So it did end up going to boarding school for their high school years. And so once. my son, Angus was grade 10. Yeah, my husband and I decided we don't really love where we're living. And it was a hard decision. You know, we fit in, but we didn't really belong. It wasn't a place that was going to be our forever place.

Yeah, I can understand that very well. Yeah, it's a feeling that you get, you know, that you really feel. And when you're in a smaller community as well, that's, that becomes magnified. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we always loved the coast. We had a honeymoon at Nusa.

You know, we had holidays in and around the Sunshine Coast area for years when the, you know, we had with young children. And so we decided that's where we were going to retire. And then we thought, well, let's do it now. Let's not waste some really key years that we've got of our lives left. And we can enjoy it. Yeah. You're not turned up and wear sort of old crotchety things and can't make the most of it. So we did.

And that was a huge decision. It was a big. brave decision to pack up and go after 12 years where we had lived at this one particular place and then moved. And plus, you know, I'd been teaching and teaching and teaching in the same school for 12 years and that gets stale, to be honest, you know, in a small school, you need to move on yourself professionally. And so, yeah, we moved. We moved into the Noosa-Hinterland area. So we're on 34 acres here and it's just the most glorious part of the world. And we are loving life and making the most of it. That is truly wonderful and how it should be. I think, you know, I've, I've had experiences

in my life where it is that split second of life changes in an instant. And I think when you have experienced that, you have a totally different perspective. And it, you do. You've got to take those risks and I think take those opportunities and be like, you know what, let's give it a go. And if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out, but at least you have tried it and, and, you know, getting the most out of life, as you say, because you never know what's going to happen. So absolutely don't. And, and that's the thing. And, you know, for us, it was, we, we decided to, once, once, you know, our children had finished school, it was the empty nest. They've gone to boarding school. And that's, that's kind of, the kids are on borrowed time anyway. And when they go to

boarding school, that's even more so. Yes. But we also knew our kids would love visiting us here more than where we were anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And that's another reason. People wouldn't want to know a new holiday. Yeah, always got visitors. It's bloody brilliant.

So, yeah, it's one of those things where we would have regretted staying where we were if we hadn't made the move. Yeah. And then, I suppose, back to my teaching, I had another year and a half there before I gave up. And teaching was a, it's an all in profession. And if anyone who's listening is a teacher and everyone knows a teacher, obviously, it's a big job and it was such a different profession to when I started all of those decades ago but it truly was it's like I saw that the change happen incrementally and it

wasn't what I enjoyed anymore it didn't align to how I believe children best learn how I should be teaching and it became almost like a teaching for dummies and data points and data collection and that's just not how I believe it should be and it all happened at the time of COVID. It happened at a time of another huge amount of big life transitions happening. And I received two emails the day prior to going back from holiday and they were the straw that broke the camel's back. And I went, no more. No more. No more. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, can't do it, won't do it. Yes. And I think it's really interesting that obviously COVID was such a challenging time for so many different reasons. But I think for a lot of people

also there was a lot of clarity that came out of it and silver linings that came out of it. I'm like, you know what? Do I really want to be doing this or do I want to be doing something else? Or so many different circumstances. But I think it gave people the reason and the opportunity to go, I'm not doing that anymore. It's so right, actually. So right. Yep.

It's at the same time, isn't it, when you think back? I was just saying to my kids this morning, we were driving to school. and to do drop off. Actually, I should say my daughter was driving me to school. Or not. Isn't that a fun time? Yeah. She's really good, actually.

We've gotten in the groove. Excellent. Yeah, no, not too bad. I've just got another two to go after that. So I think by the end of the third one, I added up how many hours we'd be doing and it's, it's crazy. Way too many. Yes, I think it's like 360 I'll be doing over the hours of doing.

but so how did you then transition into what you're doing now so obviously you were teaching did you have that kind of light bulb moment of where you're like this is where I want to head into or did you sit in it for a while to wait and it came to you of what you wanted to do it came in dribs and drabs and teaching is such a female oriented profession there are a lot of teachers and there are a lot of teachers who are very, you know, unhappy with their lot in life or just it's their lot in life and how do I wade through it? So you've got, you know, you've got almost two camps there. And plus it's an ageing profession. So I was often the person that the agony art that people would come to talk to. And it was, you know, and I'd help them work

through different things. And of course, I was going through a lot of stuff. So I and had quite a few different life experiences. So I came through with a different point of view and would ask the questions. that they may not hear normally or ask themselves or have somebody else ask them. So I had that. I was always a mentor within my job, mentoring young teachers, mentoring other staff, mentoring, you know, parents. So I had that role. And as a teacher, you've got so many skills.

Like you've got the professional studies behind you as well, as well as the ongoing professional development. But you've also got those on the job skills that happen throughout. So for me, it was just. a natural progression. And I knew when I was going through tough things, and it was, I went through a bit of a spiral, you know, hit rock bottom and had that lying on the bathroom floor type moment. What do you do to get yourself out of it? And how do you move on? How do you decide what you want to do? How do you decide, all right, I'm leading teaching. What the hell am I going to do?

How can I use my skills? How can I help others? And again, because I suppose teaching is always a way of helping others and helping people, you know, get that live off on. Yeah. And I love what I was doing as far as how I was starting to heal myself and learning so much and talking to people and doing different courses and found that, you know, there's an easier path or there's a hard way. I'd like to show people the easier path rather than wasting all that time spiraling, not and spinning around and not knowing where you're going. It can be much easier. And really, we need to prioritize ourselves because the biggest lesson, you know, part of all of this was aging parents and watching my, my mom becoming more frail and helping her during, you know,

that horrible time in between, the length of time it takes for some people to die. And you go, that's not going to be my future. What am I going to do to make it different? Like my mom, to this day, is still my biggest teacher. She's sort of, that's, she's teaching me. There is a different way. And so that's what I, the path that I chose and that's why I'm doing what I'm doing now. Amazing. I think, and like you say, having those, I think sometimes you have to go through those

rock bottom moments in order to rebuild yourself. It's like the phoenix. You, you have to in order to do it. But I think you're really courageous and brave, though, because I know that there are a lot of people who would have just stayed in teaching because that was the easy option, rather than going, you know what, there's something better out there for me that I want to be doing instead. So how would you, if someone was in that kind of position at the moment where they're feeling really stuck and not sure what to do or they're feeling at a point in time in their life where I'm already 40 or I'm in my 40s, it's too late to do something. So how would you, if one of your clients, for example, said that to you, how would you respond to that? Oh, well, first, you know,

I'd be, you feel like shaking people on the shoulders by saying, you know, your second life is just about to begin, the second half of your life. You've lived the first half of your life and usually it's on everybody else's terms. Like if you think back and most people can think about what they were doing in their late teens and the progression of where they were going to be in their 20s, 30s, 40s, it was almost planned out. You know, you either went to uni, you went to a take you, you got into a job. Bang, that was it.

So you were stuck on that path. Then you may have met a partner, may or may not have. then you may or may not have had children. And once you have, and again, once you have children, you've got that path. Yes. And so you are stuck and then you've got the mortgage or then you've got, you know,

there's so many different things that happen that you are stuck on a trajectory that you don't even think about getting off because it's just not going to be possible. No. But then you suddenly get to a point in time where there's a little bit of space that happens or something might trigger

that could be a health crisis or it could be someone close to you going through something difficult or it could be losing a parent where all of a sudden you're kind of jolted and you go hell am I happy where I am and for lots of people the answer is probably no but yeah there's that whole then feeling of almost like an existential crisis but middle essence that's what I like to call middle essence and that's what people are calling it's between 40 to 65 and that's a big chunk yeah there's a big chunk of your life In fact, some sociologists even say 35 to 75, it's even larger.

But if we just think about that 40 to 65 age group and for the life of a woman, because we're speaking as two women and your listeners would be women, you think all the big transitions that happen in that stage of life. And there are so many things that can give you that little, you know, push this direction or push that direction or you might just grow your roots and, you know, grit your teeth and bear through it. And I think it's different personalities deal with things in a different way. Some women want to break out and change. Some women just want to grit their teeth and get through it.

But you always have to remember what do you want your life to look like and start to think about what do you want your life to look like? Where do you want to be in five, ten years time? How do you want to wage? Yeah. And I think it's like how, because I was lucky enough to be a guest on Joe's podcast and that was something that we talked about on hers. I think maybe being entrepreneurs,

we have a slightly different mindset sometimes to approaching things. And so when I'll talk about it, because I'm a bit more of a risk taker, I like to research, I like to investigate because I'm all hats in my business, so therefore I have to. I think I totally forget sometimes that people who aren't like that

don't know where to start or they don't think, Like if I speak to my husband, for example, and I'll say, let's sit down because I love this kind of thing. Let's do a five-year plan. Let's do a 10, you know, around New Year's, what was good about the year, what was this? And he's not that kind of mindset. And so where that's mapped out, that just sort of continues on. And when it changes, it changes.

And whether that's because of an external force rather than him deciding to do it, probably. So for people who are in that sort of situation, we were you're talking about transitions so let's talk about that a little bit how there are different transitions because obviously I'm very much in a phase of and a lot of my audience have either kids in primary school still or like me i've got three teenagers now uh or that i'd also have clients who are moving into being empty nesters and then that brings on a whole new experience which for me feels quite far in the distance almost makes me feel a little bit of sad to think of that, I think because I'm in the thick of it.

Even thinking of them going to uni and then how that will look like with them going to uni and still living at home, that means that they will all be here all the time. Like my husband works from home too. So how, yeah, that they will all be here. I was joking about how I'll have to move, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I'll have to leave to get some space. but all jokes aside, like how do we navigate that?

And when do you start trying to not necessarily plan, but project a bit for that next future that you're going to come into so you don't just arrive there and suddenly be like, well, what do I do now? Yeah, and that's what happened to me is that I would hit a transition head first without even thinking that this was going to be something that I was going to be experiencing. And all of the big transitions that we go through in this stage of life come with big emotions as well. They're not just little things. So talking about yourself, you know, you've got children at home still and they're in that teenage years.

But for lots of women also that they may have older parents that they're having to care for. So this time of life is sometimes called the sandwich generation. Yeah. We, you know, you've got kids on one end, parents on the other and you're stuck in the middle and you're trying to do all things for all people. And in the meantime, you know, your list of needs seem to be further down that list. So it's not an existence almost, I would say. What's it? So you've got that. You've got career shifts. Sometimes you're in a, you discover that you're doing a job that you don't particularly like anymore or maybe you've hit a ceiling. You can't seem to get ahead or you want to change, but you're not quite sure how it might look. So for a lot of women in their midlife, they start to look at, you know, career shifts and career changes. Empty nest. So you're talking about that. That's a big one to start preparing for. And that in itself, you know, that's almost a, well, that is, you know, how you help start. thinking about that what you might like to do once your children do leave because for a lot of

women who have invested their time and energy and basically their life on hold for their children once the children leave that is a big gap left to fill and for a lot of women that's devastating and i can relate to that like i was a stay-at-home mom for a good 10 years before i started doing my own thing but even now if they need me they come first it's as simple as that i'm very much that and, you know, we're a family that, we're just one of those families that, you know, we have a hospital up the road and we're there more often than we really should be with various bits and pieces. So I'm very much that hands-on, you know, in there with them, in the thick of it. And I think a lot of women are the same. And you sort of, it's like how when you

lose your identity, but when they're first born, you've got this baby in your hands and suddenly your mum and it becomes all about the baby. I think there's, that misconception also that, you know, as kids get more independent, it gets easier. And from my perspective, at least, and from friends even that I've spoken to, you know, yes, they're more independent and they are and they can take themselves to the bathroom and they can feed themselves and stuff. But it's bigger kids, bigger problems. And so you're dealing with all of those kinds of things as well.

And like you were saying that you end up at the bottom of the pile, I couldn't relate to that more. There are some days I feel, I don't want to necessarily use the word. claustrophobic, but you get to the end of the day and I say to my husband, I'm out of words. I can't. I don't want to be touched. I don't want to be. I just, you can be here, but just I just need a bit of space because that constant thing.

And I think when you're in the thick of that, you can't even imagine a time where a house is going to be empty that no one's going to be calling mum 50 times a day. I don't imagine it. I know. And that's something that you do miss. you crave for that time, but when it does finally happen, you do miss. And can I just say when you, for, you know, for the, the mum's out there who are listening, who are, you know, coming into this stage, as a mum of two young adult children now,

so my daughter's going to be turning incredibly, it's hard to believe, you know, 26 this year, my son about to be turning 24. The relationship that you have with your children then, it's quite lovely how it does morph and change when you get through those, you know, the, you know, the party 18, 19, early 20 stage. But you also, as a parent, it's, as you said, yeah, every stage is different and it's difficult.

And I found, you know, when you watch your kids going through really tough times and they're young adults and they have to make these mistakes on their own, that is one of the hardest things as a parent to watch children, go through some really hard shit. Watching them fall and letting them fall.

And they have to. I would agree with that they have to. And when they're not living at home and they're not under your roof and watching them and trying to help navigate them but not trying to take over, it's a really delicate balancing act. And as a mum, that's one of the hardest things I've had to do and go through. You know, just watching your children, you know, go through tough things. And yeah, it's really hard.

So it's just different. And as a mum, I think, and then you've got that and you're putting all of this energy and thought into that. And again, down you go onto that ladder of where you, you know, your own self-care and your own self-needs. So thinking of also when your parents, when your kids go, relationship changes. A lot of women suddenly look at their husband and their husband looks at their wife and go, I don't know if I like you anymore. I want to be with you.

We've just been together holding it for the kids. And, you know, sometimes at this, in the midlife, there's relationship changes. Then we've also got for women the major transition for their hormones. All of a sudden, you're going through huge hormonal shifts. take just about every woman by surprise. It's like pregnancy. Everyone is going to be different. Oh yeah, it does. And you know, you can learn about, and that's what I encourage all women, learn about paramenopause and postmenopause. It's also then the changing health needs that you have.

They are significant and they need to be looked at, probably, and worked on during some of your busiest years that you feel like you don't have any time of years up, but that bloody will do it. from all the health experts I've spoken to and I've spoken to the top professors in research women who research women's health. They will always say, you know, you've got to prioritize your health and your wellness because chronic diseases, 80% of women, I'll just share this statistic so women have got a bit of an idea why I'm sort of will bang on about this. 80% of women who are in their 50s from the age of 50 will have two or more chronic diseases.

That's huge. So eight in ten women will have. Crazy. Two or more chronic diseases. Now chronic diseases don't happen overnight. They happen over the years and decades. So what you do in your 30s and your 40s, you might think, oh, I'll worry about that when I get old.

I start thinking about it now. And the good news is that 80% of those chronic diseases, they can be managed by lifestyle changes. So we can, you know, turn the genes on off and turn the volume button up a little bit more or down, hopefully down. So, yeah, you know, I think we've got to take 100% responsibility. If you are low in your list of priorities, you've got to think about what you can do. And it might be a small little shift that you make.

Think about what boundaries you're set. Maybe you've got to review your boundaries. Yeah. Women are givers. Yeah. Yeah. And it is small things. Like, so I had, and my listeners mostly know this, that after my hysterectomy,

I had pelvic floor issues where it basically, and I haven't really ever gone into detail, it ceased completely. And so the impact of that on my bowel, my digestive system, literally being able to walk up a hill, all of these different kinds of things, you know, people think pelvic floor and you think that, you know, jumping on a trampoline after having kids. And no, there is a lot more that goes to it. And so I've done a lot of learning on that. and it took a long time to find something to help me and I finally did.

And it was a program that I do for between, you can go from 20 minutes one week to 35 minutes the next. And it's, I call it my pelvic floor Pilates. And I said to myself this time in the morning, like from either 6 or 630, that's for me. And I have made that non-negotiable. And the kids know that I'm doing that exercise and in order for me to stay healthy and fit, even if it, you know, gives me a little flare or I'm uncomfortable afterwards, I have to do it. And even my husband's like, no, she's doing her exercises.

She'll talk to you in a minute. Right. And I think once you put those boundaries in place and you make them quite firm, you know, they might push against it for a while, but then eventually they get the message. And I think you're saying that about boundaries, even me listening to it now, I can see some other areas of my life that I need to put those in with them and go, yeah, you can have my time, but not then. And it might be baby steps.

It might be something that, yeah, you work on if you spoke about then. And then now everyone's comfortable with that new boundary. Right, this is what else I'm going to be doing. I'm going to be going every Saturday morning. I'm having my time. Yeah, whatever it is for you. And every woman's going to be different. But it might be 15 minutes, getting up 15 minutes earlier and having

some time to yourself. You know, there's little things that you can do. But also, if we go back to transitions again, because I haven't... No, I'd love to keep talking about that. Keep in mind, too, during this time for many women, you're going to be losing your parents at some stage. They're going to get older. They're going to get more frail.

They may be coming unwell. That's a big one. That was harm. I, you know, I have been with four of my family members help transition. And that's huge to be part of the caring and being. Yeah, it's a lot of trauma. It's a lot of sadness. And when you finally lose both parents like I have, it's, you know, you're an orphan now.

You've got a different relationship together in your family because suddenly the matriath and the patriarch, they're gone. So, you know, it changes that as well. So there's lots of big transition. It sounds bloody doom and gloom. But you need to be aware of what's coming up because it's life. Bloody life is going to throw things at you. When you least expect it. And sometimes.

Absolutely. Avalanche, other times it might be, you know, just something thrown at you from time to time. And when you're spinning lots of plates and you're doing lots of things and you're not looking after yourself, it will hit you hard. Harder, harder, I should say.

But in saying all of that, this stage of life is effing fantastic in that you have got lots of life experiences. By this stage, you know what you like, what you don't like. becoming more confident to say those things. And you have got the second half of your life that you can start to plan for and look forward to knowing that a lot of the busyness and the other things that you've had to deal with

have you've gone through those stages, you know, or going through, you're coming towards the end. So it is a perfect opportunity to start to think about how might my life going forward look. And when you're in the thick of it, you don't start to think. It's hard to think about it. It's hard to get your head around. It doesn't even cross, it didn't even cross my mind until you posted a story. Was it about a week or two ago?

And you said something to do with thinking it further ahead to the next stage. And I didn't. I sent you a message saying, haven't even given it a second thought. Hasn't even crossed my mind. And that's obviously how we started talking about this. But yeah. So where would you start? I say someone in my time of life, I guess,

what are the little things that you would maybe suggest to someone to start thinking about? Obviously, we've talked about time for yourself and your health, but what other things would you include in there? I think with the women that I work with as well, and they come for different reasons. Like I've had women who are in corporate women who might be, I've had, say, for example, it was amazing.

It was a woman who was working, a doctor highly experienced. in stock to working in emergency, suddenly going, I need to get out of this. It is doing, you know, I can't physically work with all of the stress. I've got brain fog. How am I going to be able to deal, you know, perimenopause, deal with with thinking of names of drugs when all of this is going on. I need something for myself looking forward, how it's going to sustain me going forward

my career. So we, you know, worked on that. So every woman will be coming with something else different. Some might be all of a sudden an emptiness. Some might be wanting a change in a career. Some might be, have just gone through a big health crisis. So everyone who I work with comes from slightly different reasons. So the way I, and therefore, if they're coming for different reasons,

there might be different things that I start with when we come together to talk. But there's basically a framework to go through. It's first of all finding out, what are your values? Because a lot of people are living a life that's not really aligned to their values. And that's why sometimes you can't quite put your finger on why you're not feeling right and why something's a, you know, a little bit off, but you can't really say what it is. A lot of the time is a misalignment of what's happening with your values.

And values might shift over time. You might have one or two core values that will never change throughout your life. But depending on the stage of life, you're in, your values may change slightly. So if you are, you know, if you say family and connection is a really big value of yours, yet you're so bloody busy doing other things that you can't spend time with your family, there's a misalignment. if you say freedom is a value of yours yet you're living a life where you have very little freedom for yourself then there's a misalignment so really starting to think about what your values are

and a lot of people don't know their values until you actually do that work and start to study them how do they look in your life now how would you like it to look going forward how could it be and then it's taking that whole 100% responsibility for your life we are the collection of all of the decisions that we've ever made. Absolutely. We can blame everybody else. We can complain about what things are. You know, we can make excuses.

But ultimately, you've got to take responsibility. And that will look different for every single person. And that will change over time and, you know, the life stage that you're in. But it's taking that, all right, if I'm not really happy with it, what the hell am I going to do about it? What's some of the small things that we can do? And again, we mentioned health. If you are not feeling your best,

we can talk about all of these things to the cows come home. You have got to start focusing on your health and your wellness. Get some, you know, really take a good, hard look at yourself. And find out where you are physically. So start to get your various health checks done. Measure things. So we can monitor what we measure. So know what you're, you know, know what you're, you know,

know what you're like with regards to your thyroid, your iron levels, just basic stuff. And if things are a bit of alignment there, that could be part of the clue of why you're feeling a bit like you are as well. You know, so we've got us, there's lots of different things to think about. It's not a one size fits all. We're also different. And so, yeah, it sounds like this is, this is the recipe, bang, go ahead. But there is kind of like, you come up with your own recipes.

Here's a framework to work through. And it makes complete sense because everything. Everyone's so different. What I want is different to what you want, which is different to my name wants. And you can all be, you know, you can get a whole group of women, you know, at the same, relatively the same age or at the same season. You know, I just, my youngest start at high school, if you think of all of those women, the moms who turned up for that morning tea.

There's not one. There's no going to be two alike. Similar in some ways, but everyone's different. And that's what I find with the women that I have, say, even on the podcast. talking to about their life experience, the women that I mentor, the women that I come across in workshops that I present at, that everyone's got something completely, everyone's completely different. And if you think about the lives that we've led, I mean, by the time you get to your 40s, 50s and 60s, you've lived through some stuff. You've got very different experiences.

And there are similarities, but there are differences that you need to respect and to honour as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's fascinating. I really do. Oh, it is. It is. I love it. And you know, I wrote down this quote to share with your audience as well. And it's one that I often use, well, not often use. I always use when I'm doing mentoring and workshops. It's the number one regret of the dying. And it was by an author, Bronny Ware. And Bronny Ware was a palliative care nurse. And it was my mother's regret. And that's what I lived with for a number of years, hearing her being so regretful about this thing. And it's one of the, it's probably become the framework for me.

So the regret is I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself and not the lives others expected of me. It's a really powerful quote because I think we often do, and again, as women, we're probably more guilty of this, is that we live a life trying to please people, do the right thing, and then we get to the end of our life when you go, fuck, you know? Yeah. Pardon me, sorry.

Oh, no, that's fine. No, no, we're all good. We've got to the end of this life, and I haven't done a lot of the things that I ever wanted to do. And I think at this stage, this is a beautiful time of a woman's life to really take stock of that. No matter where you are or how busy you are at this point in time, just take stock of yourself and just carve out and start to think about, you know, what you might like to do. And like you said, I don't think it always has to be like big, massive decision. It can be small ones.

And I think I shared with you privately, you know, my, I did get asked by one of my children the other day, would you want to go back to your 30s? I was like, no. No. But, and I know my reasonings for that because I had a lot of bad health in my 30s. And I loved it. I was a stay-at-home mom. I was in the thick of it.

And do I miss those days sometimes? Yes. But, you know, turning 40, I feel, I'm 43 now. I feel really settled into my 40s. And some of the things that I've done, probably even just in the last year, 18, months is because I'm probably a people pleaser, have been my entire life, is saying no to things and how powerful that word can be. And I heard it from on a podcast by Rachel Hollis. And she said if it's not a hell yes, then it's a no. Yeah. And I keep that in my head.

And sometimes it might be not that I don't want to do something. It's just, no, I can. can't meet you for coffee today, I can meet you on this day instead because I've already got something on that day. And I think I even heard something this morning that's really interesting. And it was all about how do you, what's your favorite choice of self-sabotage? And I was like, oh, which it really got me thinking. It was on my drive home. And we all do. And I was thinking about it. And I was like, mine is boxing myself in, planning too many things, boxing myself in because then I've got the excuse of like, oh, well, I've been so busy, I didn't have time to do that.

I didn't get to that. Or, yeah, so, and I think maybe a lot of women at this age are doing those kinds of things because it takes a lot of courage, I think, to be like, you know what, I'm not actually happy where I'm at. And I need the bravery and the courage to make that change. And it can be as simpler starting with, no, I've committed to doing this today. so I can't meet you or no to the kids. No,

mum will be with you in an hour. I need my time for this. And it's also, I think actually, what women do is, they want to do their best by everyone and for the children and make sure their children needs are met. But what a great example you set for your children when you show them that your needs are also important.

And I think particularly, I suppose it's, and I've got a daughter and a son. So I want my daughter to be able to see that I am an independent woman. And you can change, you can bloody will change your mind and change your career in your 50s.

Absolutely. You can do, you know, I was sold when I was at school. You know, women can, girls can do everything. Yeah, that bloody will can, but I was sold the wrong message. We can do everything, but not all at once. And I think sometimes women have grown up with that, that we've got to have this,

we've got to have that and have everything. And it can happen all at once. And it's not. You get depleted. You will burn out. That is so true. And I'm still the generation. as well, and not from my mum, but from just the general public, I guess, in the media,

oh, women can have it all. Like you say, yes, you can, but at different times. And I think there are times, like I mentioned earlier, work will pull me more. And so therefore I lean that way a bit more. Other times, family pulls me more. And so therefore, that constant balance, it's never in balance, it shifts. Don't. And so you can't beat yourself up for the fact that you can't do it all.

That's right. And can I just share with your audience too, Ashley, that whole, and this is what I put, teach women and when I do workshop in particular with big lots of staff. That whole idea of work life balance. That is a myth. That's basically saying you have got a pie cut in half. One half is your work. The other half is your life. That's, you know, that's not right. Work should not form the half. Work is almost like a segment. So if you think of a pie graph, you've got other aspects of your life that need to be swung around to fill up that big chunk that they're saying is your work. You've got other areas of your life that you've got to look at. And I think we've been also sold, oh, it's a work-life balance. It's just a simple amount of balancing. It's not. And it's tilting. We have to tilt one way, tilt the other.

And, you know, at certain stages of your life, when you've got commitments for, for kids, for family, for work or whatever, you may have to tilt more heavily in one way. But when you've got the opportunity to correct that tilt, Dan will do it. you know, don't complain that you don't have time for yourself. Make the time. Just start doing it. Start taking that responsibility. And it is a bit tough love at times.

But I think you can either do it the hard way or you can do it an easier way. And I think, you know, you'd be mad not to do it an easier way. Yeah. And I wouldn't want to get to that point where I've regretted not doing stuff because I didn't make the time to do it or whatever. I don't go to anybody when you're, you know, that whole, that whole thing, you know, it's putting your, putting your life jacket on, it's the cup half full or the, you know, fill your, fill your cup or whatever that damn will say.

A mask on the airplane. Mask, well, thank you. It was a life jacket. Okay. Wasn't it? No. Live jacket and a mask. That's do that too.

We'll do both, hey. But it's one of, it is one of those things where you really do have to look after yourself. You are, you are responsible ultimately for yourself. So, you know, make sure. Absolutely. So we're talking about looking after yourself. I know that you've spoken to so many people to do with perimenopause and menopause. And we've touched on it obviously very briefly to do with health.

But what should women be looking out for? Because I think a lot of people just think, oh, I'm a bit forgetful today. Or, you know, I can't remember this. Or I got a bit hot at night. But I couldn't be in perimenopause. I'm too young. Or no, I'm not. When really, I think it really started.

starts to creep up on you and you don't want to get a point to a point, I think, where it's overtaken you so much and you haven't even, not that you haven't noticed, that's the wrong word, but just haven't been aware, I guess maybe. It does and it creeps up on you. You don't know what you don't know. Yeah. And now, like even when I, and I'll just let the listeners know, it looks different for everybody. So for some women, they might be in there.

And I've interviewed plenty of women who have gone into menopause in there early to mid-40s. So that means that they've been impaired. for a little bit, you know, for quite a number of years, I'm 57 and I'm still getting my periods. Yeah. So I'm, you know, I'm at the other end. So it can look so different. It's kind of like when you look at pu-it's puberty in reverse. Yeah.

So some girls sailed through puberty. They were fine. They didn't get the pimples. They look great, you know, everything, never got the cramps. So never got the greasy hair. They, they perked their way through puberty. Good for them. Yeah.

But the majority of us didn't. It didn't look quite like. that and for some girls they really suffered and you sadly you know you shared your story of endometriosis so you have had an issue for a long time some women have got that and same when we go through the peri symptoms or menopausal symptoms so about about about about about about about about about about about to the 80% of women will have some form of symptoms 20% will sail through and they'll wonder what everyone else is going on about so for getting and again good luck i'm happy for you oh i'm so happy for them We'll talk to the 80% the vast majority. And part of that 80%, then you've got the breakup of the, you know,

the people who will have severe symptoms and then people will have moderate to mild symptoms. So everyone's going to look different. And different stages of Perry, it's going to look different. Kind of like your pregnancy. Yeah. Big hormonal shifts. So, you know, first trimester will look different to your second to your third and then postpartum.

So a bit with Perry. The point is lifestyle. changes make a huge or lifestyle makes a huge impact. So can you get great sleep? I was woken up 20, you know, sometimes up to 20 times at night with night sweats. So, you know, you felt like crack. You didn't feel like exercising. You'd find something easier to eat. So that impacts your movement, your nutrition, other wellness pillars. You know, maybe the and the brain fog, that was another big issue that you'd have. So if you're finding that you've got your symptoms, no matter what you're doing, you're really trying to focus on other.

areas of your life and those symptoms still aren't going away, that's when you really do need to speak sort of other help as well. But all the experts I've spoken to, all of the top women's health doctors and professors, they all say that, you know, look at your lifestyle, make sure you optimize that as much as you can. Prioritise movement, prioritise eating well, prioritise your sleep when you can. Manage your stress, that is a huge one. And of course, we discussed all of the stressful things that happen in this stage of life. So, So that's, you've got to find what is going to work for you, what's going to be in your toolkit. And then when, and for me, I tried to do all of that and I was still getting symptoms.

And again, I had to learn more about it because when I started and I've, I've had symptoms for over 10 years. Like I've been going on this journey for a long time. There was very little information 10 years ago. Now it's finding what is the real information from the, from the crap information that you get. That's a thing we could talk about. but it's one of those things where I saw it getting hormonal therapy. So for me, that's been changed my life.

For other women, that may not be the path that they need to take. It is not a one-size-fits-all. So I really don't like it when everyone says, go on hormone therapy. And the researchers say the same thing. That's not going to be the answer for everyone. It may be the answer for you, but there could be something else to see. So see your health professional, know your numbers, prioritize your health. And if hormone therapy is the way to go for you and will improve your symptoms,

then do it. It may change your life. But again, it might be like finding the right pill for you. It might take a bit of, it may not be the first part or the first rubber, the gel and your symptoms are gone. And for me, that certainly wasn't in the case. I've been on a couple of different ones and some cause the most horrendous side effects. And others, what I'm on now is, it seems to be working.

So it's taken me a while to play around with it. Yeah. And like you say, it's, it is. It's like the pill. I also had the marina for a really long time. So, you know, I had side effects from that that I didn't even know were coming from that. So it's like anything, it's monitoring and keeping a record of what's going on. And I think one of the biggest thing, and for everyone that's listening, and this is from personal experience. And I'm sure that Joe's the same. And I know so many other women. are the same. If you get fobbed off by a GP or a health professional, go somewhere else. Don't wait and think that it's you. I know so many people who have been told that, oh, you're having a breakdown or that you just need some anxiety tablets or no, I don't, I know of a friend who they don't even, the doctor doesn't even believe in peri menopause. Yeah, you find someone else. You keep going until you find someone that can actually. Absolutely. And there's so

many really great websites that you can go to for the information to actually help your doctor. And there is a menopause toolkit that doctors can use that Professor Susan Davis put together that's on the menopause website. That's also that they should be able to access that. So go armed. Go arm. Like you said, know what your cycles are, know what your symptoms are, your personal experience and if you're not happy to see somebody else. But there's also recommended doctors that the menopause society has got or doctors not

recommended. They're doctors who have got an interest and so they're members of the Australian Menopause or Australasian Menopause Society. Go there. Gene Hales for Women's Health. Get the information and arm yourself. Be your best advocate. Absolutely, because no one else will do it for you. No, they won't. And that's where that hundred percent responsibility comes as well. Yeah. And I think you liken it to, you know, we joke and everything about the gas mask. And it's so true, not gas mask, oxygen mask. The life jacket gas mask. Oh, we're trying. Yeah. There we go. Caravanicore's brain kicking in. And you know what? And I think now I forgot what I was going to say.

I love it. See, there you go. There it is an action. There it is an action. No judgment, my friend, no judgment. No, it happens to me a lot, the brain fog and the forgetfulness. Oh, drives your nuts. I think I forgot the word carrot the other day.

And when you get to that point, I said to my husband, yeah, I think it's time. maybe I book in and see someone. Because I shouldn't be forgetting the word carrot. I saw a great show the other day and she couldn't remember the word toes. She said it was a foot finger. Yeah. And you can identify with you. I get it.

I totally get it. Yeah. It's certainly an interesting journey. And obviously, you know, it affects the whole house. and there can be times when if especially when you have, I think teenagers especially when they have their hormones going, you have yours going. You then got your poor husband or partner as well.

And it's just you can start to think that maybe you're at the cause of it or you're the, it's you because you're either teary or, you know, someone might have said mum's in a bit of a mood today for whatever reason. And I think sometimes it's taking yourself out of that and going, okay, well, am I feeling a bit different? Am I reacting to things maybe a bit differently to how I used to? For me, anyway, not taking stuff so personally to see, okay, are there some symptoms here that maybe I'm not recognising but they are?

Or is this just teenage crap that I'm having to deal with, which is just not normal. Yeah. Yeah. There are so many symptoms and they're finding more and more and more and now, but the research of women's health is just... I found one the other day. I have a little itchy ears.

Yeah. Oh, that's a huge one. Inside my ears is really... And it's been, that's been years that inside my ears have been itchy. I just thought it was me, like my shampoo or something. And then I read it the other day. And I called my face friend and I said, I have itchy ears. And she's like, I do too.

And we're both like, and I said that apparently is a symptom. Bizarre symptoms. Because we've got estrogen receptors all over our body, all the major systems in our body as well. So if our cells have got it and you're sensitive to a decline in those hormones, then symptoms are going to show up. And I think for people like me with endometriosis, and we normally run pretty estrogen high, you start, oh, I know that I've told myself,

oh, well, I can't be experiencing that because of low estrogen because I've still got my endo growing. Yeah. And you start to tell yourself these weird things. So, yeah, it's, there's obviously a lot to unpack when it comes to hormones. But I think the biggest thing for everyone out there is knowing that you are, you are not alone. And there are wonderful people out there like Joe. who are there to help you through all of these stages in life.

And I think knowing that you're not alone, if you don't want to necessarily, or if you don't have the support at home from family or you don't have friends that you feel you can talk to about this, having someone that can help you navigate it and who's going through it herself and understanding it and is in your corner, that changes everything. Nice.

Yeah, that changes everything. So, Joe, where can people find you? And just tell us a little bit about your programs if someone's wanting to obviously learn a bit more about you and the exact things that you do and how they can find you and how you can help them. Yep, sure.

Okay, Instagram is probably my favoured social platform. So at Joe Clark Coaching. I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn as well, at Joe Clark Coaching. And my podcast is called redefining Midlife. And so that's got over 120 episodes now where I've interviewed incredible everyday women, health and wellness experts and leaders in women's health research. So that's sort of where you can find me there. My programs, my favorite program that I love

doing, because I love mentoring women. I love working with women one-on-one. So there's different mentoring packages, but I've put together what I've called my reimagined package, which is just a six-week mentoring program where I work one-on-one with you, and it provides you with the framework. So it's all research-based, evidence-based, and everyone's will look different, but you come out with basically like a roadmap of where you would like your future or how you would like your future to look. So to give you some of that clarity, clear direction, confidence moving forward. So when you're swimming through all that custard, by the time you get through to the end

of the program, you know, the women that I work with come from all walks of life, various stages and stages within the midlife range. And they just come out completely different women who are excited. for their future where, you know, the start of the program, they're not sure what's going to happen on how they, you know, they're not in a good space mentally. Some may not be all that great physically, but by the end of it,

they feel confident that they, you know, they know what their next few steps are going to be, definitely. So that's my very, very favorite thing to work, work with women. And then I just offer also workshops, online workshops and going into workplaces now and just providing health and wellness workshops,

life direction workshops and now menopause in the workplace workshops as well to make places more menopause friendly as well. Yeah, which is really important because. Oh, super important. Yeah. You know, how many women are in the workforce and like you were talking about with the ER doctor and me forgetting a word like that brain fog, trying to do your job when you can't actually think clearly is the extension.

You can't think clearly or you're having a hot flush part way through a meeting or, you know, know, you may be blue collar versus white collar, so different things, different ways to depending on the type of job that they've got as well. But really, it's supporting women through that because if you're not a woman, you know a woman and that person will be going through menopause. If they're lucky enough to be of that age, you know, we're lucky enough to get to this age, then, you know, we will be going through it. I completely agree with that.

I think every birthday is a blessing. It is. It is. Let's make the most of it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it has been amazing talking to you today. I have absolutely loved it. I know that my listeners will have loved it and sharing your wisdom of how I think a lot of women, including me, you can get quite nervous, anxious, even the thought at this stage of life and then even thinking of the next stages that we're going to be moving into or the transitions we spoke about. But if you,

you know, forearms is forewarned and have I got that the right way around? Yeah. But I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, think having that knowledge is power. And so making sure that you're doing the research and go and listen to Joe's podcast. It is absolutely amazing. Like I mentioned earlier, it is ranked in the top 5% globally, which what an achievement, Joe, like honestly, congratulations. That's a bit exciting. Yeah. That is, that is such a phenomenal thing. And for anyone out there thinking of a career change, Joe has achieved that in your 50s, because how long have you had your podcast for now? The podcast itself has been going for just over two years.

Wow. Two and a bit years. What an achievement. That's just phenomenal. It just goes to show. I can do it. Yeah. And they know what to do a podcast, but whatever it might be for you,

that little step into something new and different, you can do it. Yeah. It's just getting that confidence, being intentional with your life, you know. And you said before, knowledge is power. I'm going to add to that. Knowledge is only potential power. It's putting what you know into action. We can learn.

We can save the quotes. We can read the books. We can listen to the podcast. It means diddly squat unless you start putting things into action. Absolutely right. Implementation is everything. Some people are just lifelong learners. And that's okay.

But like you say, you have to put it into action. Otherwise, sort of not what's the point. but you won't achieve your full potential if you don't. No. No. That's amazing. So I always end my podcast on a few questions. Now,

this is going in a slightly different tact because obviously we've talked a lot about health and wellness today, which I love. But as you know, I love colour and that's my thing and my jam. So, Joe, what is your least favourite colour and why? Probably the citrus colours, oranges, and lemons simply because I have my hair is sort of a strawberry blonde color, a few freckles on fair.

So if I wear any of those colors, I just look like a piece of fruit, like a citrus. So no, I just. There are no citrus fruits for Jo. No citrus fruits, no. Okay, so then on the flip side, what's your favorite color and wine? It doesn't have to be that you wear it, just in general, even. Blues, I would say.

I love blues. different shades of blues and greens. I love an emerald green also. And why's that? I don't know. It's just a color. It does look good on me in emerald green, but blues I just find really calming and I love to have shades of blue. Mine's me of Italy. Yeah, I can understand that. Yeah, one of my favorite places. I love you too. Yeah. And in terms of your personal style, how would you do you feel that you bring your personality into your style like what kind of personal style do you have do you think I'm a fairly relaxed and casual person so I suppose I don't I like that in my clothes I like clothes that fit well made of good natural fabrics um that feel comfortable

when I'm wearing them I don't like clothes that are these days I don't know lots of women complain or or say the same thing nothing too. tight around the waist because years ago used to love tight little waste but I can't stand that now. I just love comfortable clothes. I love to feel good. So lots of nice natural cottons, linens. Beautiful. Perfect for your environment. You wouldn't want to be wearing any. That's right. Yeah. I mean, I love dressing up. Absolutely bloody love it. But I also love just feeling comfortable and relaxed and what I'm wearing as well. Yeah. Just a nice, smart casual outfit. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that sounds right up my street. I'm

I'm very much the same. So I love, as you can see, so for those who can't obviously see me, I'm wearing my favourite pink linen shirt. A lot of people know that I wear linen shirt. Yeah, this one's my favorite color. So yeah. Well, Joe, it has been an absolute pleasure

to have you on the Life and Color podcast. Thank you so, so much. Everyone, make sure to go and check out Joe's podcast, Redefining Midlife, listen to the episodes. There is a wealth of information and then also go on. to Instagram and Joe is always there for a chat and DMs as well if you've got any questions.

Thank you. Sure. Thanks, Ashley. And let's not live a life that's beige. Let's add colour. Absolutely. Couldn't have said it before. Thank you so much.

Thanks so much for having me. Bye. Bye-bye.