Life Uncut - Could Male Contraception Work? "It's Different For Girls" : Uncut with Billie JD Porter

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

Hey Lifers! Currently, 874 million women worldwide rely on modern contraception to prevent pregnancy. So today we're asking the question so many of us have had: why is that responsibility shouldered so heavily by women, and where are the men? We're joined by journalist and documentary filmmaker Billie JD Porter, whose new documentary It's Different For Girls looks at why contraception has been treated as almost entirely a woman's responsibility; from the invention of the pill and the autonomy it gave women, through to the decades-long delay on a male alternative. We chat: The wild, gendered history of how the pill was first marketed - not to women, but to doctors The three sexist caricatures used to sell birth control to women in the 60s and 70s Tubal ligation vs vasectomy & the enormous gap in how often each is performed The 1970 congressional hearing into the pill's safety that didn't invite a single woman to testify Why male contraceptive research that started in the 1950s got shelved Inside the clinical trials for the male contraceptive gel Whether men can actually be ‘trusted’ with contraception This conversation is intended to be informational and exploratory, and should not be taken as medical advice. If you have questions about contraception or reproductive health, please speak to your doctor or a qualified professional. Find out more about Billie's documentary It's Different For Girls: [link] Follow Billie: https://www.instagram.com/billiejdporter/?hl=enSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncutt. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. We are talking about contraception on today's episode. Now, I'm sure for the vast majority of our listeners, it is something that you have had some experience with, probably some very long-term experience with in your lifetime. Currently, 874 million women rely on modern contraceptive methods to prevent pregnancy. The question is, however, is why is that responsibility shouldered so heavily by women? The question is, where's the men? Where are the men? Today we are joined by Billy J.D. Porter. Billy is a journalist, a documentary filmmaker who was

built a career exploring the social issues that have shaped our generation. Now, her latest documentary is called It's Different for Girls. It is incredible, and we received early access to this. And it looks into the questions that so many of us have had. And that is why has contraception historically been almost entirely a woman's responsibility? The film looks at the history of contraception from the invention of the pill and the enormous impact that it's had on women's autonomy through to the ongoing research into male contraceptives and why progress in the space has been so incredibly slow. Before we dive in, we do just want to note that this conversation is intended to be informational and exploratory and it should not be taken as medical advice. If you do have

questions about contraception or reproductive health, it is always best to go and speak to your doctor or somebody qualified, not us. Billy, welcome to the podcast. Hello, thank you for having me. This seems like a very specific, very niche documentary that you wanted to produce. What made you want to start this? Where did the interest come from? It's funny you say that because I understand why you said it, but isn't it interesting that we do think of it as like niche when it affects literally. Everyone, yeah.

I mean, I think that like from a journalistic standpoint, I've always thought that this was such a fascinating topic and I've always been interested in exploring gender inequality and sexual inequality. and I guess healthcare unfortunately is an area where women and people who experience pregnancy are just continually mistreated and overlooked in all areas of healthcare, but particularly reproductive healthcare. But honestly, the project really came to life from my own personal experiences and my own journey with birth control and unplanned pregnancy.

And I guess relationships with men where I was feeling increasingly enraged at the like impossibility of us approaching the issue together as a couple. It is funny that you just called me out on that because you said, well, it's funny that I called it niche because the issue isn't niche, but the fact that somebody is wanting to do a deep dive into it and change society is niche. Like the fact that we're saying, oh, women have a problem, but let's do something about it. That's the niche part. Exactly. And so when you said you were having some personal issues with your contraception, was that in terms of side effects? Was that in, you said you resulted in unplanned pregnancy. Talk to us a little bit about that because this has been a documentary five

years in the works. Yeah, I mean, I guess I want to just preface anything that I say about side effects and dangers of birth control by saying that, you know, hundreds of millions of women take birth control without significant problems. And for so many people, there are benefits beyond preventing pregnancy, you know, and I think that like right now in the United States, we have this surgeon general potentially being elected who has made really, really terrifying claims about hormonal contraception. So I think that there's a lot of like fearmongering right now too. On TikTok too, I think there's kind of like all these like almond moms being like boycott your birth control. But I guess, you know, as much as I want to tread carefully, I want to say that I have

been put through the ringer trying to find a method that works. I mean, I feel like that's a really common experience amongst women. It's like a journey. We're all experimenting and that period. of experimentation can take years of your life because you're meant to give each method a real shot at working. And for me personally, I was suffering with both physical and mental side effects. And obviously that's like a cyclical situation because I was, you know, feeling anxiety after I started on a certain method and then I'd noticed that I was losing my hair and then that would make you feel more anxious. And, you know, it's kind of this horrible cycle. And I think that one of the experiences that I've now learned is very common amongst women is the experience of

going to your doctor and really having to convince them that you feel like your birth control is to blame for some of these shifts because I mean, I personally felt like, you know, my physicians were sort of unwilling to entertain the idea that it could be my birth control even though it's like, well, that's what's changed. I also think like over the years there's been now finally there's been so much more research that's going into the long-term systemic effects that people are experiencing when they've been on birth control for 15, 17, 20 years. Like, I was prescribed birth control at 14, not for the reason of contraception.

I wasn't having sex at 14. It was for all of the other, like, it was for terrible painful periods and hormonal acne. And, like, there was other reasons why I'd been prescribed it. And I was on it my entire life. It wasn't until when I was in my 20s that I found out the type of. of birth control that I was on. And of course, this is only a cosmetic side effect, but have brought me like a lot of, I guess, like self-esteem issues is that there's a direct correlation between the type of birth control I was taking and melasma. So so many women end up with pigmentation off the back of it.

I still struggle with melasma now. It's something that once you have it, it never goes away. And it now says on that box of birth control, this can cause melasma. And I live with that forever now because is something that I took for 17 years without thinking that there was ever going to be any long-term side effects. But it's also now carcinogenic. Yeah, I know, it's crazy. I know that's a tiny thing. I mean, my thing is a tiny thing in comparison to that. Talk to us a little bit about, I mean, there's no irony lost on us that it is a woman who is the one who is doing the research behind this and bringing this documentary to life. I mean, we seem to be the ones who are the most interested in changing the status quo. Talk to us a little bit around the history of contraception,

how it came about at the time and I guess like the research that surrounded it. And obviously I just want to say your experience too. That must have been so difficult and it's something that has been seen throughout the history of birth control too is that like women coming forward and speaking to doctors about the side effects that they're experiencing is the only way that they're realizing it because sometimes these side effects aren't present during the clinical trial phase. But the introduction of the pill was obviously revolutionary. It gave women autonomy over their own bodies and the timelines of how they wanted to live their lives.

But despite it being this pivotal moment for gender and sex equality, I think something I wanted to sort of say with the film is that there's more to the story. One of the historians who features in the film is called Elizabeth Watkins, and she is the author of this book called On the Pill. And it's a social history of oral contraceptives. And it tells this sort of largely forgotten aspect of, the story, which is that it actually wasn't seen as this triumph for every feminist movement. And in the 1970s, feminists at the time actually interpreted the pill as something that was foisted on women

to the detriment of our health while drug companies all profited, you know, and the pill has a really ugly origin story. It was initially trialed on low-income women of color in Puerto Rico who weren't actually adequately warned about what they're even signing up for. So I think that, you know, I'm so grateful that the pill exists, but we kind of look back and maybe there's a bit of a revisionist history about it being all good. Can you tell us a little bit about what the history around how women's contraceptive pill was advertised when it was first created? Interestingly, the first advertisements during that era weren't actually targeting women or the public directly at all. It was targeting the doctors so that they would prescribe the products. And you can see so clearly the ways that

women were completely infantilized by the medical industry. You know, they were pushing these pill packets that had butterflies and hearts and sparkles all over them and essentially positioning them as fashion accessories, which I think has numerous harmful connotations because it's sort of frames birth control as something that you should be ashamed of. It was all about being able to have it discreetly in your handbag. But there are a few other tropes as well. There's this really interesting essay on the topic by this writer called Heather Brooke Adams and she basically studied the way that the pill was advertised throughout the 60s and 70s. And she identified these three caricatures of how women were depicted in the marketing.

And one was the reliant beneficiary. So a lot of the adverts were about how grateful the women will be after their heroic doctor prescribed some of this pill. And then the second one was a discreet consumer. So, you know, the woman who needs to hide her contraception at all costs from the outside world. And the third, which I find so sinister, was the forgetful woman. And it's, you know, so prevalent I looked at so many of these adverts. And it was ultimately like, silly little women forgetting their silly little pills because they're too busy doing their silly housework.

You know, it was just so condescending. And so some of these pills would come with like a calendar to remind women of when to take the pill. And it's like, you know, I'm saying this is someone who used to forget to take the pill all the time. but I just mean that like the trope of it being that like the man is this hero coming in to save the day. I don't know. It's just so dark all of it.

I mean, I certainly wasn't forgetting to take the pill because I was doing silly little housework, put it that way. It was just because I was living my 20s. Same. Yeah. Well, fully, it's also because I was like,

who fucking wants to take something every day at the same time? And also like the bee mongering that used to be putting to us, it's like if you had a 10 minute window, you know, like if you missed you 10 minutes, you were like, oh my God, I'm screwed for the month. Like double dose. Yeah, which doesn't do anything. Were you able to double dose? People double dosing our contraception.

Was that what we were doing? People used to think that that was a thing. But it wasn't. It absolutely was not. Once again, we're not here to spread medical misinformation. Don't double dose your hormonal pill. What are the main contraceptions now that women are on? Well, I mean, there's so many, right?

And I think that that's a good thing. There's long-acting methods like IUDs and implants and, you know, the pill. there's so many different formulations now that lots of women are able to find something that really works for them and works for their lifestyle and their, you know, physicality. But one thing that I find really fascinating when kind of talking about the most popular methods of contraception is the difference in rates of tubal litigation versus vasectomy. So I guess more permanent birth control methods, which is that tube tying is still performed at like a significantly higher rate than vasectomy.

is and that's included like within committed married couples. And when you compare those two procedures like being, you know, tube tying is something is a really, really intensive procedure where you're under general anaesthetic versus a vasectomy which takes 15 minutes and for the most part is reversible. And I think that just kind of like shows what the attitude is to contraception broadly. With I guess surgical intervention. And I want to head back on something that you said about history, but just while we're here, is it because a lot of women who do end up getting their tubes cut or the tubes tied, however it's referred to, do it during the process of childbirth? So I know from my experience, a lot of my friends who have had that procedure done, and there's

only a couple of them, because I would say it's not as popular now as what it used to be. But for some of them, it's a choice that they made during C-sections. So they were like, well, while you're already in there, you can do this additional thing, which, I mean, sounds like a crazy thing to just add on. but I guess for some women they were like, well, I never need to worry about this because I know that then I've had all the children that I want to have and I don't want to have anymore. And if I'm already having a C-section, it's a procedure that can be done at the same time. I mean, none of the folks that I spoke to had mentioned that specifically, but regardless, I'm just kind of like, if you and your partner have decided that you don't want kids together anymore, then I just don't understand why there isn't more acceptance or even a conversation. It would be seen as pretty radical, I think, here in the United States for a man to offer that in a couple, even when kids weren't wanted by both parties. Yeah, and it's become, I think that the conversation's becoming more normalized here, but I definitely don't think that it's widespread accepted.

I know in terms of my friends who have had children and are at the end of their, you know, like they don't want to have any more. There is a much more direct conversation that's happening with their partners, which is. is I have done it all. I have done the birth control. I have had the babies. I have done the breastfeeding. I have done it all. And now you need to go and play your part, which is get the snip. And I do think that women are starting to have more of a voice in this conversation. But for so long, it was almost deemed that it was you didn't have a right to ask that of someone else's body, even though the expectation is as women, we do everything else that there is to do. Yeah. What were the stats, if you know them, the difference between women getting their tubes

tied to men getting the vasectomy. It's difficult because there's actually a boom in both in vasectomy and tubal litigation after Roe versus Wade was overturned here. So in terms of like up-to-date stats, I don't know how exactly accurate they are, but it's roughly twice as much that tubal litigation is performed versus vasectomy, which which just seems crazy to me. And when I've spoken to doctors in the field about this, they've spoken about the way that the lack of societal acceptance or the fact that it's not this normalized procedure has a really, really direct impact on how many urologists there are actually able to go and study for it, you know, because it's less commonly performed.

So I hope that, you know, we are going to end up seeing more men realizing that it's not as scary as people make it out to be like, there was a big TikTok trend after Roe versus Wade where men were showing kind of me before my vasectomy, me after my vasectomy. And it's kind of they literally have an ice pack on their dick for like a day. Yeah. Why do you think historically and also culturally the responsibility falls primarily on women when it comes to contraception? I mean, I could speak about this for so long, but for a long time, it has been something that people have accepted, I believe, because it makes sense. You know, like we're the ones who shoulder the physical consequences of an unplanned pregnancy. And so there's an idea that like the logical thing to do is for us to protect ourselves.

but I feel like that is pretty convenient framing for men. And it also sort of positions them as like passive participants in the whole act of sex, which isn't the case at all. And, you know, not to mention the fact that we're fertile a few days of the month and a healthy adult male is fertile every single day. So I just think like the rationale really holds up because we don't expect more. And I think that it's been, you know, to do with the kind of gender dynamics. really. It's such, that was a really interesting point and I'm ashamed to say that I've never thought about it. But when you think that everything falls on the woman, but she's only fertile from like

four to six days of the month. Whereas a man is fertile. I mean, if he has no issues, every single day. Yet still, it was like, hey, you know what, you can trump this. It's going back and speaking a little about history, something that came up was that in 1970, there was a congressional hearing that was looking into the safety of birth control pill, but no women were invited to testify. Why were no women invited and what was the outcome of that? Yeah, I mean, that footage was so crazy to watch because I never even heard about those hearings before I started researching the documentary. It was really shocking to watch. But yeah, confusingly, instead of speaking to the women themselves about the health issues,

many of them were experiencing, those hearings instead invited the drug companies and male physicians to debate the topic. But something to keep in mind here is that some of those doctors who are actually prescribing the pill, they also had stocks in the companies that were making the products. So they had a clear vested financial interest in downplaying the side effects and continuing to write the prescriptions. And as Elizabeth, the historian in the film points out, this is a much broader characteristic of the healthcare industry here in the US, which as far as I'm concerned is, you know, completely broken. And one of the most mind-boggling aspects of the system here is that the Food and Drug Administration is heavily funded by the industry that it's supposed to

regulate. So, of course, there's never been an even playing field. But I guess in answer to your initial question, what came out of those hearings is that during those initial days, they were interrupted by members of the women's liberation movement who were asking exactly that, why are they women invited to participate in this. And why aren't you taking the pill? When's there going to be a male birth-controlled pill? And even though they were excluded from the first few days of the proceedings, they eventually did invite women to testify as a result of the people standing up.

And two really big things happened as a result. One was that the pill was reformulated after those hearings so that the side effects were less severe. And the second thing to come out of it, which was really historic, was the introduction of mandated labelling and inclusion of safety pamphlets in medical products because prior to the 1970s, companies weren't obligated to list any of the risks or side effects. And also, I mean, and I know we're going to get into it, but I remember when we were talking, this is years ago, Britt, about the concept of the male contraceptive pill.

And I even remember the conversation that played out on the radio and on the news. They were talking about the creation of it and then they were talking about how it was having clinical trials and then not too long after that, the whole thing was kind of abandoned or relatively abandoned and there was a lot of discussion around the side effects that had come into fruition off the back of the studies that had been done on these men and it was things like headache, terrible headaches and it was things like, you know, hormone fluctuations or emotional mood swings and every single one of those side effects were clinically what women have experienced for forever to varying degrees on the hormonal birth control pill. Why do you think it is a case?

And I want to be careful with how I wear this, but like when those symptoms were experienced by women, everything forged ahead. And now that we have kind of, you know, the reference point for that, creating a male contraceptive pill, those side effects are taken far more seriously. Yeah, I remember the exact study that you were referring to. There was some slight misreporting, or not misreporting, but there are a lot of kind of headlines that were circulating around that time that did kind of, you know, say like, look, these pathetic men and could have withstand what we've been going through since we were 14. It is how it read. But there were some severe side effects that were experienced by some men then. And look, like, new birth control methods are held to an

entirely different standard. And I'm enraged by that slightly. But I also think that's a good thing because I think that, you know, we shouldn't be putting up for the same things, with the same things, rather, that we did when birth control was introduced. But I also really hope that men are going to be willing to put up with some discomfort because God knows we have. And I mean, like, most of the products that are currently in development now, though, are really held to a standard where they're expecting that men won't, they won't want to tolerate the stuff that we have. Forgive me, Billy, I don't remember if this was a clip from your documentary

or if it was another clip I found when I was just doing my research. I think it was from yours. But it was a girl just taken from TikTok and it was a girl that's like, I went to my friend's house to stay the night and I forgot my blanket. So I just used the side effects pamphlet from the pill. And like it's so big. She gets the side effects pamphlet out and it's like a metre long and she lays in it like a blanket. And it's so true.

It's like we got to a point where we don't even consider what it's doing for us. Like I know I did. And I was on the pill for must have been nearly. Yeah, for 15 to 20 years I was on appeal. And I never even read the side effects pamphlet because it didn't matter. It's just what you did. And I remember saying, I didn't think I ever had a side effect from the pill. I was like, oh, I'm really lucky.

I have zero side effects until I came off it. And when I came off it, I realized I was on one big side effect. I was a sociopath. I felt nothing. I had no emotion. Honestly, I was like, am I a sociopath? Because I don't really cry. I don't really feel much.

Nothing affects me. Water off a duck back. And I just thought I had this really thick skin. And I wasn't an emotional person. And then when I was going through my egg freezing and I finally went off the pill. I was like, oh, my whole life was a side effect. I just fucking didn't know it. Yeah, I mean, it's a common experience.

There's this really incredible short film actually called birth control, your own adventure. And it's a kind of like visual essay about a woman who was prescribed all of these different forms of birth control, which she said made her feel like a completely different person each time. And, you know, I think it's a really common experience for women to be prescribed it when they're so young. Like, I was prescribed when I was 15. I was barely sexually active, but, you know, I didn't have PCOS. So, I mean, I don't even really remember why I just accepted that as the logical thing.

But yeah, for those reasons, it's really, really difficult to identify the ways that it's affecting you when you're taking it during your formative years, you know? Like, how do you know if that's impacting your mental health? Well, because you don't know who you are yet either. So you're not old enough and you have not experienced enough to know what is your normal because you don't have a normal yet. That's what I think. It's such, like you said, it's such formative years that we're just thrown it at 15 and 16 years old and off we go. When did real research start to come into fruition around male contraception? Well, this is kind of rage-inducing, but there was actually quite promising research into male contraceptive methods before the introduction of the combined pill.

So in the 1950s, but it was never really taken seriously because of the kind of the politics of, time. You know, I think this is something that we're kind of like seeing across the board when you kind of examine the way that history has played out is that there has been a reluctance by men to tinker with their own bodies. You know, there's a squeamishness and there's also just like a kind of convenient narrative that it's like a woman's responsibility. And I think that sometimes men also, when they say like my body, my choice, I think that some men who even consider themselves to be progressive, have considered themselves to be feminists, say, oh, well, you know, it's like nothing to do with me. It's how body you can do whatever, without actually seeing that it's kind of like, yes,

it's our body, we can do whatever with it. But like, it should be something when you're talking about shouldering a burden that both of you are responsible for, you know, like it takes two to create a pregnancy. My fears around this is not so much around whether or not there will be an effective male contraceptive pill. I mean, we are well on the way there. And I know that that's something we're going to get into. But I actually think that this is a social issue more so.

I mean, trying to reframe the responsibility firstly that it's something that women shoulder, but also reframe for men, this concept of like not being fertile at that time doesn't mean that you're any less of a man. It's not taking away your masculinity. Like, I think because there has never been a reason for men to care about it, just because we create something doesn't mean that they're instantly going to take on the mental burden and responsibility of caring about it. I actually think that there is this huge social education shift that is going to have to happen

where firstly men need to feel as though they're responsible and feel as though that this option is something for them to shoulder. Because what you mentioned before when you said, I would hope that they would take on some of the side effects, there is actually no incentive at the moment for them to do so because we are the ones still shouldering those side effects. So if someone was, just say you've been taking their contraceptive pill for 10 years and you go, I'm done, I'm not taking it anymore, and your partner takes it for the first time and has whatever those effects are, hormone shifts, headaches, whatever it is. I doubt that he will be

efficacious in taking it. He will say, I have side effects. I'm not taking that, but we have learnt to adapt and we have learned that we need to continue to do so simply because there has been no other choice. Yeah, and I mean, I think it's a really, really valid concern. I think something that's been a bit like sinister or not maybe that's the wrong word but something i've been really worried about is whether or not the introduction of a of a male contraceptive could eventually be used as another way to to control us you know because the current administration i can't see them prioritizing or pushing through this research unless it's in a bid to control women's bodies more and we've you know we've seen them coming after our reproductive rights they're trying to limit access to safe abortion

they're now trying to come after birth control. I've been like, oh, God, is there some future where actually it's men who hold all of the control about when people can start a family. So, I mean, there's so many things that you can like, I don't know, go to a future trip about. But I really hope that tides are shifting. And I have seen that, you know, since the dog's decision, lots of men are realizing that they can't just assume that their partner will be able to get an abortion now.

Can you tell us a little bit? I mean, obviously, we're familiar with the. Roe v. Wade being overturned and the current climate around abortion within states in the US. Can you explain to me what you mean though when you say they're coming after the hormonal pill? I mean, I can't speak on it in too much detail, but there's lots of issues with, I mean, they're rolling back loads of funding. So many planned parenthoods have had to close down, which, you know, directly impacts women's access to birth control. And there's a really, really big issue in the United States with contraceptive deserts. And we,

touch on it very, very lightly in the film, but it ultimately means that people who live in certain parts of America cannot access a clinic that has the full range of birth control methods to them. And, you know, there are areas in the United States, especially Republican areas where that feels like a real targeted attack on contraception, you know, and I think that lots of people don't feel like preventing pregnancy is like, I mean, I don't want to speak or speak out of turn when I sort of relate it to religion. I was about to do the same thing. thing, Billy. Yeah. It's tricky, but I mean, that's one of the reasons that I think it's been so interesting to include this Mormon couple in the film that because I was really surprised that they

were participating in something as groundbreaking as this. Well, yeah, and just to go into that a little bit more, it's because there are areas in the US and let's say Utah, for example, Utah, the majority of people that abide there are Mormons. That is one of the biggest Mormon communities in the States of America. And that is where the contraception desert is, that the accessibility is so low for them. So it almost makes it impossible for them to access it even if they wanted to. I found that a really fascinating inclusion. I used to live with a Mormon girl, an American Mormon who was from Utah. And it was just so eye-opening to realize that as much as they think that they have choices, and I'm not speaking, I don't want to speak out of turn for everybody, but it was my experience.

As much as they feel like they have choice, they in fact don't. They are pushing. down a certain path, which is not to use contraception for it to be God's will. And then when you have a couple like you included in your documentary that do want to sort of take control of their family planning, they can't because they can't access it. So there are still so many problems. We have a lot more accessibility here in Australia. I feel like we are very lucky with our medical and health system. But let's talk about the very interesting thing here, the male contraceptive pill.

are we at because I didn't realize that we had gotten to the point where we had a gel for men to use. So talk to us a little bit about it. Yeah, I mean, so it's a really exciting time because there's now quite a few different methods in development. There's multiple pill formulations that are being worked on. But the method, which is the furthest forward, and so the one that will be, you know, likely seeing available on the market soon as is this gel. And it is rubbed on the shoulder. once daily and it essentially sends a signal up to the brain to hold the production of sperm. So over the course of a few weeks, the sperm count lowers to zero. And similar to the pill, it takes a few weeks for it to become effective and then once you

come off it, the sperm count goes up. And what have been the side effects for this? And you say that, you know, now the clinical trials and things, they have a far more regimented outcome. What does that look like? Well, it's funny because actually we did a screening the other week. and someone during the Q&A was like, you haven't included any people who had negative side effects,

and is that not going to, like, harm it in the future? And I said, well, I wasn't editing it deceptively. Like, I genuinely, all the people that I spoke to had not reported any significant side effects. It was funny. I remember I interviewed this one couple because I was in the casting process for so long. And I was like, you know, you're really not noticed any differences.

And he was like, well, I think one of my balls looked smaller at the beginning. And his wife was on the call to, and she was like, it didn't. It didn't. Like they're trying. Yeah, there with like a compact mirror and his legs open, like looking for it. I was like, okay, all right. So potential ball shrinkage. But, you know, some people have had reported slight weight gain, slight fatigue,

but, you know, those are also things that are really difficult to pinpoint. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, some of the trials were during COVID, so everyone was putting on weight too. So you're saying now we're at a point where, it's almost comical. Men can rub their shoulder once a day. It's been proven to be 100% effective where it can reduce your sperm count to zero

with zero side effects. Those are very absolute statements. Not 100% effective. No contraceptive is 100% effective. The pill and condom isn't. But it looks like it's more effective than the pill, the gel so far. There's one last phase of trials they need to do

before it can go to market. But yeah, I mean, it looks, really, really promising. I think it's something that we'll see available in the next few years. And there's a bunch of other methods too. There's actually an implant method which is rolling out into human trials in Australia in the next few weeks. With a really fun name, it's called Plan A, which you know they call Plan B, the emergency concept of here. And that's kind of going to be like the, like a male IUD in a way. Like it's going to be a long acting gel that's injected into a part of the penis called the Vaz deference. So it's a kind of alternative to a vasectomy. But yeah, I mean,

there's going to be lots of different methods coming out. And it's interesting, I did this partnership panel with Planned Parenthood. And they're actually right now trialing what their kind of patient format is going to be for when they have people coming in to be prescribed male contraceptives. And that makes me really excited because it's like, you know, it's not just people having breakthroughs in a lab somewhere and, you know, in the world, it's like we're actually now getting to the stage where people are putting together how they're going to come in to a doctor's office and, like, be offered all of the different methods available. What about the flip side to the debate? And it's definitely been something that we've raised

before. Like, can men be held responsible for the contraception? I guess, you know, when we know that women are the ones who shoulder the responsibility and potentially the burden, if it's an unplanned pregnancy, of pregnancy, can you give that responsibility solely to someone else when you're the one who has to, I guess, be responsible for the costs if you do for pregnant? Look, I mean, I really am not the most trusting person of men for anything. Yeah, I was going to say, neither am I. So I don't think many women would be. It feels like a hard one.

I mean, I can see some relationships where there's equality and trust that it would be such a benefit. Like I know in terms of my relationship with my husband, if that would be a choice he would choose over a vasectomy, like incredible. But I think about dating in my 20s, fuck trusting any of the men I dated in my 20s to be responsible for contraception. Exactly. And I think that, you know, it's just, it's obviously these methods too, they don't have any protection against diseases or infections. But I think that they're needed. Like, there was this study that came out a few years ago. And I can't remember. the exact figure, but it was basically this really, really shocking number of how many men

when surveyed, would they initiate use of a condom with a partner, even if they had one on them, unless a partner insisted? And the vast majority said, no. There's a flipside where they could use it to skirt responsibility, you know, to be able to go out and have casual sex without having an accidental baby in the process. I think with that, the reason why I guess I'm left with such questions. I think it's so important and I'm so like it makes me absolutely thrilled that we're at a point where this is something that will come into fruition. I think for a lot of people in committed relationships, it will be something that allows them to garner equality in their relationship. But I think for so long and for so many men, the reason why people can choose, why men can be like,

do you know what, I'm not going to use that condom in my pocket. I don't like the feel is because I would say by far in most women, most experiences that they've had with casual sex, most women don't want to get pregnant. Most women are not out there trying to baby trap men. They're not doing that. That's not a real fear for majority 99.9% of men out there because they know that even in the case of an unplanned pregnancy, most women will have to make a decision around that. And so they just, and it's definitely not all. And it's definitely just, you know, a specific type of person are able to completely shirk responsibility because they're like, well, it'll be fine. I don't have to worry about it. Someone else is going to fix the problem.

I think it is most men, though. I know that you said that you don't. think it is most men. I think it is. And I just feel like, you know, all men benefit from the behaviour of shitty men, right? So that's why it's like when I have dated men that were kind of like, you know, I look into getting a sexual meal. I'd take that if that came out. I'm like, really? It's like, why is that a scene is such a huge fucking deal? Yeah. But, you know, like, I agree with you. But I feel like it has to kind of, the shift has to start somewhere. And I hope it's something that I see within my lifetime. I really don't think that any women should trust a man about this wholly,

especially if you're kind of not in a committed relationship necessarily, because obviously in the United States, the consequences could be devastating, because you might not be able to seek out a safe pregnancy termination. But I do think that this could spot a really big revolution. I think it's really long overdue. I was speaking to my husband, Ben, this morning on the way here, we're talking about this. And he said, so are there any side effects so far?

And I said, well, not really. Like, I was like, not that we've been really reported, nothing major. Would you take it? And he's like, yeah, I would happily take it. He's like, but people don't even know it's a thing. He's like, as a man, I've never heard anyone talk about it. I haven't seen much about it online. What has the response been from men since you have started doing this documentary

and we've started seeing trailers for it and spoilers since all your research? Are people excited? Are they skeptical? Are they angry? I've had a really kind of like positive reaction from most men. But it's been that, like what you said about your conversation with your husband is that there's not really a widespread awareness of the fact that we're this far along. You know, I kind of, I was really shocked too when I was doing the research. I was like, wait, what? This has been in trials for years, like all over the world. But, you know, I think until it has FDA clearance and, you know, a manufacturer, behind it and the big marketing spend, like you probably, you might not know about it. Why do you think it's taken it so long to come through trials, to come through development trials and also to be able to even explore this idea of having a marketing backing behind it? I mean, it's been so long that a female contraceptive pill has been available. And the fact that we're in 2026 and it's still not readily available, a men's contraceptive

pill seems almost just outrageous. One of the most shocking things I learn in this whole process of, of investigating the topic is that the whole area of male contraception is not touched by a big farmer yet. You know, you have these labs which are doing work that's funded by grants and little kind of like university settings. And they're having to kind of go all over the world to fundraise for this research. And there's a lot of debate in the space about why that is. And there's also a lot of people who are very scared of critiquing the FDA. because they need the FDA to approve these methods,

but they haven't historically been the most helpful. And I also think that there's a few companies that hold a monopoly over the current market, right? And it would potentially mean a loss and profits for them. I think a lot of it is money. Like I do think sometimes it doesn't go so deep. They make a lot of money from it. It would cost them a lot of money to do the research

into a male contraceptive. And I do wonder if the research, increased after the pill was discovered to be a carcinogenic. And I wonder if they saw profits drop from that once we know the dangers and some of the other side effects that we never really knew. I do wonder if they're like, well, fuck, how are we going to make money? We're going to have to think of another drug that's going to work if they saw a decrease in the pill. Yeah, I mean, I guess, and I want to say the pill has been, well, oral hormonal contraceptives have been categorized as a carcinogen, but they also have been proven to reduce the risk of some other cancers too. So I

guess it's like when I included that fact in the film, I more kind of want to promote the idea that it never needed to be this way. We could have had a male pill years ago. You know, it's not that there has been like this lack of scientific innovation or this brick wall that people have been hitting. It's been a lack of funding and all of this bureaucracy because right now there isn't a system to approve a male contraceptive. You know, they're having to write that wall book from scratch. You know, what does that look like? How long should. should you test it? How big should the sample be? Because, you know, in the past when they're testing products for women, there's sometimes an arbitrary number of menstrual cycles that they'll test for.

But with a man, it's like, well, you know, once the sperm count is zero, how long should you have him on it before you deem that safe, you know? Billy, when do you think we will see the male contraceptive peel on the market? So the first products that will be available is the gel. And supposedly that's going to be out in the next, like, three years. But that still seems like so far away. I'm like, if we're at the point where we're doing these clinical trials and they're all looking good, I was like, I can guarantee they didn't trial this long on women.

No, they didn't. I mean, it's like what? But look, I mean, it's, again, this is sort of an area where sometimes I'm asking people really plainly to say something. And if it's on the record, I get one answer. And then if it's off the record, I get another answer. But ultimately, the FDA is a government agency. So I think that the speed and the funding of, products that are passed under the Trump administration will, for the most part, be like catering

to their interest. And it's an administration that's stripping funding from the NIH, stripping funding from Planned Parenthood. So it's slow going. But I mean, who knows? It could be something that gets pushed through faster. But that's the estimate right now. There is so much to go in terms of where we need to be in order to level the playing field when it comes to the responsibility that is being shouldered when it comes to contraception, when it comes to reproductive and, you know, whose responsibility it has when pregnancy is involved. I don't know whether we will get to a destination of equality in even our lifetime, but having something like the male contraceptive pill is just one step in the right direction. And then the more conversations that can be

had around these types of things, the more that we can educate our partners, the men in our lives, the men that we don't want in our lives anymore, the more that we can educate them, the further we can move the dial. Billy, you're doing God's work. Thank you so much for joining us today. So nice to meet you. We are going to link everything for your social media, for the new doco. It's different for girls. I'm going to put that in our show notes so anyone that wants to go find out more and keep your eye out for this one. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Have a lovely evening.