Life Uncut - CREATE THE LOVE - Uncut with Mark Groves

Episode Date: March 28, 2022

Today we are chatting with one of our favourite guests EVER!It's Mark Groves from Create the Love.Mark Groves is a human connection specialist, which are some fancy words for him being super emotionally intelligent and someone who breaks down relationships and what happens in them incredibly well.In today's chat we take a deep dive into:-whether timing is important-'circling back' on relationships-what's better between the slow burn or the spark that sets your soul on fire?-dating fatigue-self loveIf you'd like to check more of Mark out, you can do so here: https://markgroves.com/His podcast and instagram are absolutely killer!We open this episode by talking about Ash Barty's surprising retirement and hustle culture.If you liked the episode, we'd love it if you would take a hot little sec to leave us a review on apple and spotify!Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your friends and your dog and share the love because we love love! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode of Life Uncut is recorded on Gadigal land of the Eora Nation and Bundjalung of the Arakwal people. Hey guys and welcome back to a very special episode of Life Uncut and it's special because Laura has entered a new year of life. She's 31-ish plus a bit, plus or minus. We'll keep

the Daily Mail, Cassie. I'm Brittany. I'm the one whose age is very ambiguous. No, I am 36, everybody. And I am a proud 36 year old woman. I just want to say I've had the freaking best birthday this year. And I had a real moment in the last couple of days where I was like, I think my late 30s are going to be the best years of my life. I'm calling it. Oh, all the feels. Oh God. Do you know what is funny? I know I did a birthday post for Laura and I said something like, I can't believe you're 31. Like, obviously I'm just making a joke. Someone commented and goes, I'm pretty sure she's 36.

I was like, bro, it's a joke. It reminded me last year when it was my birthday and I was with Jordan and Jordan did a birthday post. Now the running joke was that I was like seven years older than Jordan. So Jordan was like, happy 25th. Happy birthday to my 60th. No, he was like, happy 25th birthday.

And someone wrote on his post and was like, can't believe you think she's 25 she's you know telling the truth kind of thing like trying to call me out she's like she's 30 she's 34 Jordan was like is this person serious I was like guys this is a joke I'm not lying I'm not catfishing him to to keep him I think it's funny because I think age is such a thing that we're supposed to be wary of as we get older like almost like we're supposed to wear age with shame and I know that we make jokes about it all the time but I was thinking about it and Matt asked me he's like if you can look back like what has been your favorite phase of life and of course my 20s were cool like traveling around the world was cool

doing fun things in my 20s when there was no responsibilities was amazing but at the same time I think about that period of my life in my 20s and just how I didn't have my shit together just how like emotionally chaotic I was even though I yes sure maybe I was in India having like YOLO time of my life it was such a chaotic emotional time in that like it's when you go through the weird throws of relationships it's when you're trying to figure everything out and then now at 36 I'm like okay I don't get to do all of that stuff and I'm sitting in Byron Bay in a very kid-friendly resort but at the same time I'm like I feel so much more at peace I feel so much more accepting of who I am as a person I feel so much more comfortable and confident and I mean my

boobs are as the saggiest they've ever been but I feel the most confident I've ever felt and it's a really really nice place to be in life I mean you look like a supermodel and your boobs are great I can confirm but no but I think that this is I mean what I think is that every phase of life we go through because we're changing with it we think that that is the best time of our life and it's because we've evolved and grown but like I look back at my young my young 20s my 20s when I was traveling the world I literally was living the life I was traveling non-stop I had so many experiences but with that comes stresses it comes debt it comes no money when you're younger usually unless you are blessed and born into a very wealthy family

or somehow you've won a lottery, you've got a lot of money. Those younger years are very formative and you're at university and you're starting to grind. You're at the start of a job so you're not earning good money yet. They come with their own level of stresses. So now I'm older. I've got more money to travel and do things but I don't because I'm working so hard to get the money to travel.

So it's like it's all backwards. Do you know what I mean? Like life is backwards and I think you've just got to live in the moment and make the most of what you have. Totally. And I just think like, I think my 20s was such a volatile time of life. And I know that you say that my tits are great, but they used to make eye contact and now they look at the floor.

But apart from that, everything else is great. They still do make eye contact with someone that's laying on the floor. There you go. Exactly. Cast your eyes down, everybody. But you did have a good birthday. I had such a fun time. So we are currently, I know we said last week that we were recording this via Zoom.

We are also recording the start of this week's episode via Zoom. We have, I can't even tell you how great this week's episode is. I'm so excited for you to listen to the conversation we had. We have a guy on, he's Canadian. His name is Mark Groves and he is truly a relationship expert and a modern day philosopher in how he speaks about human connections, how he speaks about relationships and how he speaks about the world of dating. I feel like everybody, whether you are single or whether you're in a relationship, you are

going to get something so incredible out of this episode. But in the meantime, this intro, I'm in Byron at the moment. We decided to take the kids up here for a couple of days just to get away from, oh, just to get out of Sydney and to kind of have a change of scenery. It has rained every single day except for one, which was kind of expected. Just done like really wholesome family things. We went to the bowling club for my birthday. We rocked out to this really old school band.

The kids are jacked on ice cream and yeah, it's been really fun. I'm here for it. I love that you've gone away. I love that you've reset. I love that with you, with your kids, you're having ice cream. I saw your birthday. you were at the pub the local pub having a dance with Marley some of you guys might remember last year we bought a house up here and like we're not living in it we still live in Sydney and we're

renting the place out but we really love the little community that we bought in and it's in an area called Bangalore and so we came up and we thought for my birthday we'd go to the Bangalore bowls and we just went to the bowling club and it was so fucking fun the kids were running around like they were absolutely feral actually there was this one moment so or with there's so many kids because my sister has two kids and then I've got the two kids. All these kids were just running around being mental and Marley was standing there dancing

and it's packed as well because there was some like stone or wood party on at the same time. She's there grooving away to Daryl Braithwaite. Classic. And she flings her hand back. She flings her hand back and the entire ice cream cone

goes straight into the woman behind her butt. Like she puts her chocolate ice cream cone into this woman's butt cheek. And I'm watching this all unfold and Marley's face the horror on her face when she realizes what she's done but the woman didn't know she had no idea what had just happened so did you tell her or did you just be like run Marley run I just made eye contact with Marley and we were both like what the fuck do we do which is definitely not the face that you make at a two-year-old because I feel like I'm supposed

to be the voice of reason in this situation well you're supposed to make the decisions yes they both just pretended like it didn't happen no laura no no no no no no no so to the woman who was at bangalore bowling club who had an ice cream but when she got home i am i am really sorry i didn't have the emotional spiritual or mental capacity to deal with that at that time and i'm really really apologetic i am shooketh that you did that i'm the person that would go up to someone and be like i just noticed you had the tiniest little green thing in your teeth from across the I could have walked up to her and be like, hey, I just wanted to let you know my daughter just put an entire ice cream into your butthole. Sorry about that. You didn't notice. Yes. No. Yes,

you can. That's what you do. You do because you let her go and like wash it off. She's not going to go crazy at you. She's from Bangalore. No one goes crazy in Bangalore. Everyone's very nice in Bangalore. They're good people up this way. Imagine. Oh, Laura, you're going to get the worst karma now. You know that. I can't wait for us to get a review from someone who's like, I love the podcast, but Laura's a bitch because she put ice cream on someone's bum and didn't tell them. I'm waiting for it. Can't wait guys. Anyway, like we said, we have such an awesome episode for you. So I cannot wait to get into this because it is, I reckon this is one of my favorite EPs we've ever done Brit. I agree. And I want to start by saying, just like to quickly tell

you who Mark Groves is. He's been on the gram for a long time. He's got a million followers. He's a human relationship connection specialist. He's so wise. He has the most soothing, relaxing, beautiful voice I have ever heard. I could listen. He could put me to sleep in terms of how soothing his voice is, but I could talk to him for hours. Now I have been a very big fan of Mark Groves. His Instagrams create the love. For many years, I actually just went back in my messages to see, because I messaged Mark, I DM'd him, I slid into the DM to try and get him on the pod. I just wanted, before you tell this story, Britt, I went back through mine as well and I have sent him six messages over the years and he has not replied to any of them except the last

one. I looked back in 2018, I shared something that he wrote. I want to read to you what I, what I shared on my stories in 2018. And I was like, this is me. I never know, but I trust. And then this is the quote that I shared. I have come to accept the feeling of not knowing where I am going. And I have trained myself to love it because it is only when we are suspended in mid air with no landing in sight that we force our wings to unravel and alas, begin our flight. And as we fly, we still, we still may not know where we are going to, but the miracle is in the unfolding of the wings you may not know where you're going but you know that so long as you spread your wings the winds will carry you that's by c joy bell but create the love put it on i

reshared it and i wrote to him being like i feel this so much right now he ignored me he never wrote back this has been going on from 2018 do you know i love that this was like directly after the bachelor when you were going through a mental life crisis as well and you were like i have no idea what i'm doing and also if you're somebody who when you're going through a hard time likes to retweet or likes to repost quotes. I feel like it's something that we do thinking that it's not an overt way of sharing what's going on in our lives. But really when somebody starts sharing Instagram quotes about like, you know, not knowing where they're going or about how their soul is hurting, it's like, you know, that person is going through a breakup or there's some big life

milestone that's happening in that person's life. Create the love, which is Mark Groves Instagram. It's perfect for that. If you're looking for a quote to share, it is a gold mine. And, but the reason why it's a goldmine is because he genuinely just has the most incredibly insightful, incredibly authentic and beautiful perspective on life, on the perspective on relationships. And I loved everything about this chat. We're going to get into that shortly, but before we do, I just wanted to talk to you about something that has completely stopped the world in its tracks, whether you were into sport or not and that is our Australian golden girl Ash Barty. She's only 25 years old she has won three grand slams so she's won the French Wimbledon which Wimbledon was her dream

and just recently this year 2022 she won the Australian Open. Now she ended a 44 year drought of any Australian winning the Australian Open. It's absolutely huge you could not be any more at the top of your field than ash body is in tennis she just came out last week and said you know what i'm done i'm retiring i'm tapping out and the world has gone bonkers everyone is like wait what what the fuck how do you you are on this role you are the you couldn't be better you will continue to i mean she's 25 they continue they don't even usually reach their peak these I mean and I know this because we all know I dated a tennis player but they usually don't even reach their peak for a few more years but she's just like I've had enough especially

when you look at someone who like Roger Federer who's still playing well into his 40s you know like and still crushing it in his 40s I think that that's where the precedent lies where you're like well 25 yes maybe 25 is older in some sports but for tennis it's actually still quite young and there's still a lot of room for being at the top of your game for so many years to come and originally the world was pretty crazy everyone was like why would you do this you're number one you're at the best of your sport you're so young you've got years left to go you can make millions more dollars you're so inspirational everyone was up in arms a little bit and didn't understand it and they were a bit against the fact but since she's come out and done a press conference we've

realized that there this is a lot deeper and there's a lot more to this and it's turned into a level of respect that she's walking away so young and at the top of her game because it really goes against this thing that we call hustle culture. We've talked about hustle culture before, but never on a level have we seen it like this, like somebody of Ash Barty's level coming out and saying, I've had enough. Ash Barty said, I know how much work it takes to bring the best out of yourself. I've said it to my team multiple times. I just don't have that in me anymore. I don't have the physical drive, the emotional want and everything it takes to challenge yourself at the very top level anymore. And how fucking refreshing is that? How good is that to see

someone say, you know what? I know I'm good. I know I can have millions. I know the world wants me to keep playing. I feel the pressure, but guess what? I don't want it. And I don't feel it. And I'm going to take some autonomy back in my life and do what makes me happy. And as much as it's so upsetting for so many people to see, so many people are praising her now being like, you know what girl, you've worked so hard, go and live your life. I just think it is the most empowering thing to be able to do that and we've spoken we've done a whole episode on hustle culture and why we subscribe to not just the nine to five but subscribe to the 6am to 10pm you know we don't switch off we're constantly feeling as though we need to be more successful to be furthering our

careers to be better and bigger and I think at the end of the day there sometimes comes a point where you need to reflect on why am I working like a dog am I working like a dog for myself for my own internal validation or am I doing it for somebody else and I think in this instance Ash having that reflection that she's like well I know that I can be that person I've already succeeded in everything I wanted to do and now I want to succeed and and work on myself and have a personal life because obviously I mean Brit you would know this more than anyone but when you are a professional sports person the amount of yourself as a human that you sacrifice in order to be an elite sports person it's almost like it's so unrelatable like we probably could never understand

how many sacrifices an elite sports person has to make when it comes to the time that they have with their family or the time that they have with their friends or even just being able to enjoy and celebrate their wins because they're straight into the next tournament and then the next thing that they have to succeed at. Yeah, and it's one of those things that we know in terms of we know that.

It's easy for us to sit back and say, but I didn't realise until I obviously experienced it firsthand. I remember when I met Jordan, I remember him saying to me and I was a little bit put off at the start. he was like I'm so I like I'm in love with you I'm so into you I'm so happy I've never been happier and I don't want you to take offense to this I need you to know you're never going to come first that's what he said he's like for now for this part of my life and he's like and that's nothing against you he's like it's just it is impossible to put anyone first because they don't have the

capacity they physically do not have time they're not in one location constantly exhausted because that's constantly traveling always on their own or and then when they're not playing they're training when they're not training or playing they're doing physio they're doing rehab at the start I didn't understand I was like how could you say that like how could you say you love me so much but not be first then I've experienced their life and I'm like I get it and there's so many I met a lot of other people traveling with the tennis players a lot of other women a lot of men too like Ash Barty's fiance he travels a lot he has to go with her all the time to be able to have any sort of relationship with them. And they all say the same thing. They're like, oh yeah,

like you won't be first. Like you've just got to accept that for a little while. Ash just turned around and was like, you know what? Fuck, like I'm engaged now. And I do want to put someone else first. I'm sick of me having this selfish life. What Ash did come out and say, and I think this is really powerful in itself. She said there was a perspective shift in me, this second phase of my career, that my happiness wasn't dependent on the results. Success for me is knowing that I've given absolutely everything I can. I am fulfilled. I am happy. And she just wants to take this next opportunity to focus on herself rather than on her career. And I think like coming off the back of everything that happened with Kim Kardashian two weeks ago, where she was

like, people just don't want to work these days and really pushing and subscribing to this like very toxic fucking hustle culture. I think it's so refreshing to see somebody as successful and as young as Ash Barty, not subscribing to what we've been told that, you know, is the only way to be successful. Well, yeah, she said now I think it's important that I get to enjoy the next phase of my life as Ash Barty the person not Ash Barty the athlete which I it gives me goosebumps to think about because they're two different people like you lose any semblance of yourself and I think a lot of the world forgets that these players Ash in particular they've been playing since they were teenagers Ash has been playing since she was 14 so she actually took a break

imagine this at 18 she took a break from tennis because she was like I'm stepping back from it she went to play cricket. Like she's an absolute animal. She's just one of those people that's good at everything. But at only 18, she's like, I want to have a life as a teenager. Cause I haven't had it. So I think while we're like, Oh, she's only 25. We have to remember they've been doing it their entire life. There's no normalcy. I remember even Jordan saying to me, I wish, cause he's been playing since a teenager too. He's like, I would give nothing more than to have some time at home where I can just join a sports team. I can play touch football with my friends. I could go and play trivia on a, on a weekend with my friends. The littlest things that we all take

for granted. These people are on the road every single day of the year. So to Ash Barty, I can't wait to see what she does next. She did say, she's like left a little hint. She's like, I have other dreams that I want to pursue. I think this is my, well, I'm putting my two cents in. I think we're going to see Ash go into the golf world. That's what I'm going to call. I think she's going to go. I love that you're taking bets now. I am. She's got, I think she's going to play golf. I think she's real. I genuinely, I'm calling it now, putting it out here. I think she's, and I think she's going to be bloody brilliant at it too. Beyond and separate to Ash Barty. I think that this is just a really incredible message that we can all take a little bit from and that is you

know being able to put yourself first is something that's incredibly important and reflecting on why we subscribe to working so hard we literally just did an episode on the overwhelm and i just think it's so nice to have these incredible role models to show us that there is another fucking way of living we don't have to keep on kicking goals and climbing the ladder and if it's not what makes you inherently happy at the end of the day we do need to definitely acknowledge that ash is in a position a very privileged position where she's made a lot of money. So it is easy for her to walk away and stop grinding. Not everyone is in that position. So, you know, we're not going to say, oh, you're working too hard. Everyone quit. She's made millions and millions of dollars. So good for

her. She is in a position to do it. Secondly, I don't think we've seen the end of Ash. She's only 25. There is no reason she can't take five years off, come back and she'll probably still go back to number one. So I don't think we've seen the end of her. Good luck, Ash Barty. I think you're a fucking legend. Hats off. You're very inspirational to everyone that has watched year over the last five, seven, 10 years. Anyhow, we're moving into the next section, which is accidentally unfiltered, but we do want to keep this little intro short. I feel like we've already spoken for too long, but we got very passionate about the hustle culture. We want to keep it short because we've got such a great episode with Mark coming up, but I actually wanted

to bring you an accidentally unfiltered that happened to a friend of mine this week. Okay, but before we get into accidentally unfiltered, can I just say, I am not bringing an accidentally unfiltered this week I trolled through the DMs none of them were that embarrassing you guys I know you think it's embarrassing but on one hand I'm like very happy for everyone that nothing too traumatic or tumultuous happened this week and on the other hand you all had a great week you all had a fucking great week and on the other hand I'm really sad for us because like you know I want I want the top shelf embarrassment if we're gonna do accidentally unfiltered I want it to be like the moment where you had to crawl into a hole and never wanted to come out totally

So this is why, thanks to my lucky stars that I had a friend this week that absolutely annihilated herself and gave me some content to tell as an accidentally unfiltered. I have a friend and she is absolutely petrified of spiders. Like she cannot contain herself. She lives alone. I laugh thinking about it. She lives alone. And as you know, there are things you have to do. We all know I had to pick up a possum from my backyard that was dead. It was traumatic. There's things you have to do when you live alone because there's physically no one else is going to help you so she comes into her bedroom and there is a huge and like i haven't seen a photo but this is her report a huge spider she reckons it was like the size of a dinner plate obviously she's

exaggerating i feel like if you're afraid of spiders your your propensity to exaggerate the situation is probably a little bit higher than most totally she's like it was the size of an anaconda anyway it was we know that you know it's like a big huntsman and it was above her bed so she couldn't get into bed you know that you are never going to sleep you there's nothing you can do so she's like far out you know I've prepared for this moment so she went to get the spray the spider bug spray because she can't bring herself to capture it and she can't bring herself to hit it with a shoe so she gets the bug spray she comes in and she's she can't you know when you can't even bring yourself because you don't want to kill an animal but you know when you can't even bring

yourself to do it because you know when you spray it it's going to run you don't know where it's going to go you think it's going to jump on you so she's like amping herself up it's scuttling around she's frantic she's screaming then it starts to make a run for her so she thinks so she frantically spread she frantically sprayed the bug spray super aggressively to get it but she sprayed it backwards into her own eyes i shouldn't laugh so she can't it's all over her face she can't see now she's screaming she can't see the spider so she's she's like all over the place she drops the bug spray she makes herself to the bathroom she's washing her face splashing her eyes frantic she runs back still can't see properly she runs back to the bedroom and the

spider is gone so she not only can she not see she's got this bug spray all over her face but this huntsman now is is either in her bed in her pillow under her bed in her clothes and she can't find it that's it so she hasn't slept in like five days she's she burnt the house down she's moved out fuck do you know do you remember when i had the the huntsman infestation i had guys i don't know if you if you don't follow me on instagram you might not know this i had in my old apartment which is now britney's apartment i had a huntsman so messed up a huntsman infestation i'm talking like 30 humongous fucking spiders just crawling through the house behind the tv and apparently like a nest of eggs had obviously hatched and they were just all over the house there was

huntsmans everywhere and i'm talking 30 that i could see not just the ones that were like in the walls or behind fridges or in cupboards and stuff so you had to have an exterminator come and get rid of them. Hypothetically speaking, like if someone else was living in your apartment now and their name was Brittany Hockley and their name was Brittany, where did these come from? And what can you do to stop this? Like, was this a random one-off thing or is it like, are they in the walls? I mean, I would definitely, I'd like that we're having this conversation right now, but I would definitely suggest that you get your place fumigated yearly. That's my like high recommendation to you, Brittany Hockley, pest fumigation. Anyway, on that guys, let's get

into the chat with Mark. I am so excited about today's chat. We have speaker, writer, podcaster, motivational speaker, just an all-around great human, and most importantly, a human connection specialist. Now, you might be familiar with Mark Groves. If you aren't, he has a wildly successful Instagram page with over a million followers. It's a page that I have actually been following. Well, Mark, I'm just going to show you how uncool I am. I feel like I've been following you from the beginning and I think I used to respond to a lot of your like story posts. I used to be like super fan but I don't think you ever responded back. She slid into the DM. Good DM slider. I'm a good DM slider but no, Mark Groves, you're into your own pages, create the love. I'm so excited

to welcome you today to Life Uncut Podcast. I'm so excited to be here and you know I'm sad to hear that I've dropped out of your story reply that level. You got too big and famous. You left me for dust. But we are so excited to have you on the podcast today. We've been looking forward to this interview for so long. And one thing I'm very much looking forward to is that we start every single one of our episodes the same way. We want to know what your most embarrassing story is before we get into all the other deep, dark secrets you have to share. Yeah, let's share it. That kind of speaks to my embarrassing story. I had to choose because I have like two embarrassing poop stories i had to choose neither of them is like worse than the other from an embarrassment

they're just equally bad so i was in school i remember going to school my mom made us go to school pretty much no matter what like if there was a snowstorm we lived like a couple kilometers from school so my mom would drive us no one else was at the fucking school except for us because my the teachers are like these fucking kids can they just go home my mom brings i was sick that day. My mom brings me to school. We already know where this is probably going. And I had one of those moments where you're like scared to fart like that stage. And I should have been more terrified. We all know that that stage. And I had too much courage. I braved it. And I basically diarrhea in my pants. The worst part about it is I actually couldn't go home. So I remember went to

the bathroom and like clean you know did the cleanliness I think I threw I must have thrown out the underwear I don't even know anymore I hope you threw the underwear yeah I must have I for the version of this story I definitely did and then the rest of the day I spent with my winter jacket tied around my waist like who walks around with a puffy jacket tied around their waist why didn't they just send you home he probably didn't tell anyone he shat his pants no one knew it. But I know it's embarrassing would have been someone who would have been like pointing at my poopy butt, but it was embarrassing because I, the whole day I was just terrified. And I also, because junior high, you know, kids are assholes at that age. So I was like terrified of someone

seeing it because, you know, then it gets weaponized against you. Yeah. For the rest of your life. So why not just tell it on a national podcast? What age is junior high for us down under people that don't know is that like 12 13 yeah it's like that grade 7 8 9 that's it right because because i pooped myself when i was like seven years old i was going to try and make you feel better but you were in high school so it's not the whole difference i was an adult and you were still a child i like that there is absolutely no like there's no repercussions for this like nothing bad happened but it's one of those real formative memories because the the deep-seated embarrassment that was internalized by this is still with you as a fully grown man as one where

I did I was in band so this speaks again to my popularity in junior high I was in band and I was sitting on the back row I played the trumpet so you get the back row and I tried to sneak out a fart and it was on a metal chair and it rang off like a machine gun and did you just cover it with the trumpet like a machine that actually would have worked perfectly if I had just gone you're way smarter than I was at the time like why not go and just let it out like you literally had a trumpet in your hand but you decided to trumpet out your butt yeah so they everyone turned around and looked at me and I tried to be like oh but there was no one behind me so I was going anyways that was embarrassing do you know what the worst thing is and I don't know if this happened to you

when you were 12 when you pooped yourself when I did it I remember because I'm traumatized too I did it at the school fair I mean not the school fair it was that it was the fair in the local town like in my local town and I didn't want to get off the rides and I knew I needed to go to it but I wasn't ready to go off the rides anyway i pushed it to the limit and then i had to go so i was like mom i need to go to the toilet the line for the bathroom was one cubicle was so long so i just shit my pants and then everyone started to look around at me and i just i was just trying to play it cool and pretend like nothing was happening and then my mom leans down to me she's like brit she's like did you already go to the toilet and i was like no mom she's like brit i can smell

it she's like everyone and then there were about 15 people in front of me and they all turned around and let me push in front of the line they're like you guys can go ahead how have we been doing this podcast for two and a half years and this is the day that you share that story it just reminded me because my giveaway was me trying to think i was cool with a big turd in my pants but the smell everyone could smell it that was the giveaway and i was like i promise mom i haven't and how would you sit on another ride like you would have smooshed it all up the whole family had to go home and they all my brothers and sisters hated me because the fair got canned early okay we should probably get into the questions i already feel like we're in the trust tree so

this is good we're in the trust all right i feel like it's time to get into unpacking some of the some of the real questions the real reason why you're here mark what do you mean as if that wasn't a real question when did he poop himself well i want to know you're such a modern day philosopher in how you talk about relationships and the advice that you give to people who are trying to navigate what can be one of the hardest parts of just life human connection how did you get into doing what you do yeah you know I think like so many people who go into work where they're a teacher of any kind and I would imagine it might be similar for you both in your choice to create a podcast that it really was that I I really started to become the teacher that I needed you know like

I love the idea that you turn your mess into your message. And that was my mess. I mean, my late teens, I started working at a digital, like an electronic store for people in the States. They know like Best Buy, but it was called Future Shop. And I wore a, I wore a suit and I sold extended warranties. I was that, that guy. You were that guy.

Do you want to upgrade for $50? That was exactly it. Like your shit's super good, but it might break. So you need a warranty for it. That I really loved the idea of how do you get people to buy something or like change someone's behavior. I went in into pharmaceutical sales actually after college and I worked in that industry for a long time. And during that time, I really wanted to study more and more about psychology, but really from the perspective of how do you get people to do things. So more from a manipulative space.

And in my late 20s, I had an engagement and and that was it. I spent my whole life, I was raised Catholic. I consider myself a recovering Catholic now. And so much of my life was spent, and I don't think it matters what religion you are, but culture, religion, movies, they all embedded this idea that I needed to get married by 25 to 27, have kids by somewhere near there to 30. And if you're not doing that, there's something sort of wrong with you. And so here I was right on time, 27, got engaged. And it was this massive moment where I remember proposing and then this realization of sometimes you meet a moment that you were taught to want and then you realize you don't want it. And that was really big for me.

I didn't know at the time that that's what was going on, but that actually was the birthplace of me starting to think about, like, how did I get here? Is this the right choice for me? Why am I so terrified? And then when I talked to people about it, they would say, well, you're just afraid of commitment. Like this idea that one should go terrified towards getting married. Don't get me wrong. We should fear would be normal because it's uncertain. but to have a high level of anxiety is not really a great indicator you know anxiety being so

indicative of creating a future that we might not want or being afraid of a future we might not want and so that made me really start to question relationships in another way I started to look up things on the internet like how do you know if she's the one you know that led me to some really beautiful strangers who had navigated these things and I wrote on a forum about my circumstances and this woman replied to me and asked me three questions she asked me if she left you tomorrow would you be okay and I thought not only would I be okay I'd feel relieved that I didn't have to do it yeah and then the second question was can you imagine what it would be like waiting for her at the altar whatever your altar is and I thought that made me feel anxious

and scared. And the third question was, could someone else love her better? And that was such an important question because that was the first time I really thought about it from her experience. I'd been so caught up in my own fears and just overwhelmed that I never really realized I was taking her down a path and she was worthy of so much more. And of course, the follow-up question to that is, do you want to be the one who can? And I didn't, and I didn't know why, but that was when I ended the engagement. And that was the birthplace of wondering, why do I do what I do? Why am I so good at talking about everything but my feelings? It's not skills. There's something more. And that was 16 years ago when I went back to school, studied positive psychology. And

I just immersed myself in the science of relationships. And then, of course, that brought me back to healing a relationship with whatever might be greater than us. Because I really had an aversion to the word God just due to Catholicism and so to spiritual connectedness and how relationships really are this sacred space where we can do healing, we can do courageous things. And I think there's no better container for learning. If you don't mind me asking, how did you navigate the breakup of that relationship at the time? because I think that there's a lot of and I know that even in myself I have stayed in relationships for so long past an expiration date because the actual physical doing the breakup was harder than just being there and just kind of coasting along for a while right how did you physically make that

step when you're already at a point where you're supposed to be planning a wedding oh man like even the planning of the wedding it was interesting because I had in the the acknowledgement of what was finally true, like just actually meeting it and accepting it, I no longer could carry the lie, like I could no longer allow myself, I think because of the perspective that I was also carrying, bringing her along. And so that sense of responsibility that I had to not, you know, trick her or keep her in the space was really a motivator for me. I mean, one of the hardest conversations I've ever had to have in my life, you know, you

sit down and say, this isn't working after three months after you got engaged. I mean, we both sold our houses and bought a house together. I mean, there was so much to undo. And it really made me see that the price of inconvenience is so much less than the price of misalignment. I think we underestimate the pressure, the societal pressures. What a lot of people, as well as not wanting to hurt your partner or go through a heartbreak, because I think it's sometimes harder to be the person breaking up with someone. But I think we don't don't, I think we mourn the loss of the life we had planned sometimes more so than the actual relationship. So it's like, we had all these plans together. We were buying this house. We

were moving here. We were going to have, we had kids names picked out for a lot of people. I think they struggle more with the idea of, well, what the fuck do I do now? Like literally we've broken up. We move out of our house. What do I do? Like the change in identity. It's a change in identity. And what sort of advice do you have for someone that's really struggling in a breakup? Like maybe deep down they know that this isn't their penguin it's not the right person for them what can you tell someone to sort of introspectively think to get at their head around the fact that it's going to be okay out there you that chapter is not necessarily for you but there's another path well I think this idea too that if you're not together they're still somehow the one inherently

just by the circumstances of the relationship they're not and you know the at least not in that version of each other. If people have broken up, that breakup is serving them to get to whatever place they need to be to possibly be together again. But even then, this idea that I'm going to change to get them back, it's still tying change to an outcome rather than change to wanting to create a desired feeling, which is regardless of the outcome, I'm okay. And I think that's one of the greatest gifts of breakups is they create space that often we haven't felt ourselves. You know, and we see this when people go from relationship to relationship. They don't actually allow themselves to feel the space that really is where people complete them.

You know, and I think when we lose things, not only do we realize the weight of them, but I think we often also realize the cost. and you know when someone says to me i lost my partner and they took everything i don't mean financially because that can often be true but like emotionally i always ask them like what did you give them that they can take with them you know like get it back like that's the gift of it right go get your shit back too you guys steal the dogs back yeah get your fucking couch And I think that's what breakups, but I would say any grief does is it doesn't allow us to run from it. Like it demands that we listen. It demands that we recognize that, you know, even this idea that when something ends, that the story is no longer available, not in the way that we had imagined. however the story is fully available and if you recognize like you're the writer the director the

producer the casting director you're all the things then you're it really where where we are normally disempowered through relationship by losing relationships that are inherently disempowering we are empowered we see like we get to decide what this relationship ending means for me i honestly don't know a more potent vehicle for transformation than a breakup especially one that's so readily available to us. You can get ghosted by someone you spent a week texting with and that can devastate you. What a gift. What a gift that pain is when it reminds you that you've forgotten about yourself. Sometimes when people are single, they can go through more heartache and more, I guess it's like perpetual breakups and people in a relationship because you're

constantly finding these, like you just said, you might just be texting for a week. It doesn't work out you might date for two months doesn't work out three months doesn't work out some people are going through an emotional emotional turmoil or a breakup like 12 times a year I really want to make it clear to those people that you don't have to have been in a long-term relationship to feel that pain and feel like you're not recovering and you can't learn something about yourself do you think it's like like compounding small breakups it's almost like small heartbreaks but all of that like compounding rejection can add up to feelings it compounds on your feelings of self-worth i think for some people as well yeah i mean even though i you know it doesn't mean we

can't be disappointed when something doesn't work out it's just are we left empty right like am i left empty am i struggling with thoughts am i enough like did they not choose because what it brings up is an unhealed perception we have about ourselves you know like if so many of us in relationship stay in relationships where we don't feel prioritized we don't feel chosen we don't have to even feel safe, both psychologically and perhaps even physically. Often that's because as children, we learn that that's familiar. Unreliability in a partner, totally normal. Lying, cheating, all that stuff, totally normal. And so we have to, anytime we keep experiencing repeated patterns as adults, you can sure as hell put your finger on the fact that it comes from

a conditioning as a child. And so what it does is if I'm drawn to people who are unavailable, who are liars who are any of those things it's because i'm seeking something i'm seeking probably to finally be enough to be prioritized to be understood for them to change so that i'm this i'm so beautiful i'm so everything that they're going to change for me and really you'll continue to experience heartbreak until you recognize that the adult in you actually has to provide you those things and then you will not be drawn to people who are unreliable or any of that because you'll have given those things to yourself you'll have set the standard and then those things aren't even attractive anymore like to someone who has healed the draw to unavailability the first sign

of on it not only do you recognize it just the way they text or the way they talk but you feel it because you're integrated and in the integration your intuition which you had to leave to survive in childhood because you can't leave your house when you're four that has been welcomed back and it's when that's present then and then you're not even drawn to it you're like swipe left bye like i don't even i don't even have time for that shit it's interesting you say this and we've spoken a lot on this podcast around codependency and there's something that you put on your instagram just the other day and we wanted to talk to you about it you wrote your level of self-love sets the bar for every other relationship in your life how do you see someone's own self-worth

like how we see ourselves impacting codependency in a relationship or impacting codependent tendencies yeah i mean codependency is challenging because it's sort of like the normalized way of relating that we watch we've evolved to be codependent which is different than interdependent you know and i think that's it's important to differentiate like codependency is really i need you to validate that i'm worthy right like i need to try to fix your shit to try to get you to stop the addiction to try to get you to change i carry the world always being like well no one thinks about me what about me but meanwhile we're the one existing in a world where everyone is more important than us that quote is from terry cole a psychotherapist and really the idea being that

If you set the standard for the behaviors for yourself, like if you say this is why one of the greatest healings of things like trauma is there's a saying that the opposite of trauma is choice. And one of the ways that we can begin to trust ourselves is by, first off, just making our bed every morning. I'm going to make my bed every morning and then we do it every morning. And what that says is when I make a promise to myself, I show up. And it sounds so simple and it is, but it's so important because it is those little consistent broken promises to oneself that says when shit hits the fan, I actually don't have my own back. And so the healing of codependency is first learning who you actually are separate from

other people, right? Like it's creating sovereignty, right? And like so many of us in relationship, we like the shit our partner likes, even though we don't actually even like it. That is so true. Or you see people who almost like get into new relationships and they adopt all the things that their partner likes. Like they become, they become like a mini version in some ways of their likes and wants and hopes and dreams and aspirations, which you know is quite different to where they were sort of six months ago. I honestly love rock climbing as of yesterday. So much. Yeah. It's my favorite. And you see that

like, it's almost like you're absorbing that other person or what they want with their life and you become an accessory to that. Such a great word, absorb, because in a way you're right, right? Like I'm starting to adopt your thoughts, feelings, and beliefs, not recognizing or respecting them as separate. It doesn't mean we can't find an interest through the people we're in a relationship with. It's just like, are you authentically actually drawn to that thing you say you like? Are you pretending that you like foods you don't like? Are you pretending that you want to like restaurants you don't like like to heal codependency is to begin to be conscious about what values are you living your life by what standard are you setting for yourself like if

you don't have reverence and admiration for who you are as a human like self-love is thought you know and and surely true is things like bubble baths and chocolate and spas and all that awesome shit. And it's so much deeper than that. It is the consistent choices I make in each moment. Do they say to me, I love me. I have admiration for myself. And if you can set that standard, anyone who doesn't hold it will just be lowering your bar and codependency is lowering your bar to fit somebody else in. And we, I think, can often do that. We're like, yeah, but they just it was one small red flag. We do a segment on every Thursday and it's called Ask Uncut where people write in their relationship questions and we do our best to answer them. A very common

question that we receive and something that's like a very, uh, it's just a very common theme to relationships is somebody who has been in maybe not so healthy relationships or toxic relationships. And there's been that volatility that like, you know, really high highs, really low lows. And then they just don't, every time they start dating after that, they just don't feel the connection or they just don't feel like, you know, what I have with this person isn't as strong as what I had with my ex. Or the nice people are boring. Yeah. The nice people are boring. They're comparing that volatility. What advice would you have for someone in that situation or feeling like almost like that trauma bonding and that toxicity is where they find

excitement in relationships? Well, first off, compassion for where that comes from, you know, And compassion for self. That's what I mean is like that person being able to say, like, what a beautiful level of awareness to identify. I'm still drawn to people that aren't necessarily good for me. That also shows you when someone says I can't help who I have chemistry with, as if chemistry is this thing that's always good for us, right? Like that what we're drawn to, if it's not healthy, then we know.

I like to say that our picker might be broken, you know, and so you got to fix your picker, which sounds close to Packard, but you know what I'm saying. fix your dick fix your just fix your fix your dick what's really going on is from a nervous system perspective they are confusing dysregulation with arousal and that can often occur because of the extreme extreme emotion that occurs in volatility unreliability all that kind of stuff and if you think about it a lot of the time what happens then is people have sex and then the feeling of not being chosen or not being safe gets treated by arousal so it's much like a drug like any drug that we do to escape pain and we just stay in that cycle because when we're in

relation or going on a date with someone who's calm who actually prioritizes us who texts us when they say they're going to who's reliable we're like yeah but that's fucking not sexy like i don't want to bang this person what we're really not comfortable in is actually being in a regulated state we're not comfortable in the calm and so my advice to them would be to seek something like somatic therapy that's what working on your nervous system is called and even beginning to learn things like breath work ways to regulate cold showers are actually a really incredible way to learn how to regulate because when you even just put the end of your shower for 50 and 30 seconds on cold what you're observing is your body say you're going to die from the cold but

you're not. You're totally safe. You're in a shower, right? What you're starting to do is be able to observe your body's experience separate from what you know is true. And it begins to make you the observer of your nervous system response. But breathwork and somatic therapy, you can work with a therapist and you can move that very quickly. And what you'll see is all these patterns that you couldn't make sense of, or all these people, you won't even be drawn to dysregulation anymore. Anyone can change any behavior in relationship. This is like music to my ears. I have my first breathwork class booked in a couple of days. So I'm expecting to walk out of that a new person. I'll let you know. I'll give you straight home to a cold shower. You really

will. You know what? I'm at that point, you know, where you're like, I'll just try anything like come at me. So I'm just going to go do some breathing for a while, come back, come out a better person. But I want to talk to you about something that I don't actually know quite how I feel about it yet. So I'm going to ask the expert. I want to talk to you about timing, divine intervention do we believe in right and wrong timing so a relationship doesn't work out they have to move to England like I'm sorry I have to go for my job I love everything about you but this can't work out and then can you say uh we're each other's soulmate but it's bad timing is that bad timing or is that just they're not the one there's no such thing as right or wrong timing

well yeah you know all that language like soulmate the one I'm always mindful to not put them as singular because when you put them as singular you don't live in an abundant experience you know if you believe that someone even in the first five dates or first date i hear people say i think i met my husband or my wife or whatever i've said it a few times and it's always ended fucking terribly i've done it twice and that's not the one i'm marrying right like it's like did you stop saying it at least that's at least that yeah i've experienced exactly that two people in my life on first dates i've been like this is the guy i'm gonna marry and it was a shit show of a relationship. And then my now husband, almost, I didn't have that straight away. And it's the

most calm and sensible and like reliable relationship I've ever had. Yeah. Isn't that beautiful? That shows you how much the prison language can be, right? Like if I say someone's the one, then what happens if they're not? And I've made this declaration, not just to myself, but maybe to my friends. And so even exploring that of like, when we use language like that, then we're not free to leave we're not free to not explore that thing and so well if it's bad timing they're the right person for that experience you know like if it didn't work out the idea that they're the one that could be the one that teaches you that you shouldn't use that language so that you don't put all your eggs in one basket right like i always think wherever any relational

experience is sticky there's a story or something that needs to be healed you know you think like whenever we're triggered there's something that hasn't been healed and this idea that i always consider that if something doesn't work then is they're inherently the wrong person they're just inherently the wrong person for what we're pursuing which is perhaps a relationship with someone for the rest of our lives and they are always the pathway to that person you just got to have a bit of faith in the moment that what's happening is leading you to where you're supposed to be or the lesson you really have no other choice like the other choice is that what the universe has had happen in my life is actually not right and so i need to try to make it right as if i know

better than my soul than my the universe than the lessons that are trying to work through me as opposed to like just letting go of the tight grip to stories have to be the way we want rather than the way they are. And when you're not accepting how reality actually is, you're fighting it, which means you're going to be in pain. What about this whole notion of like circling back on a relationship? So if the relationship's ended and maybe there is something that's unresolved about it, giving it another go in the future, if, you know, circumstances are different, but, you know, I think that some people do hold on for hope that that relationship or that person's going to come back into their life. Well, timing, I mean, I speak it from personal experience.

my current fiance was my past relationship you know and we call that relationship 1.0 you know that uh in hindsight now you know we call it a sacred pause and we took a sacred pause in our relationship the relationship itself when it ended was over you know like i was ready to move on and move forward and i just knew from my own personal experience that unless you close the door fully you're not even open to any sort of advanced state of the next relationship even if it's them You know, so it really made me start to think about a few things. One, that when we use words like my heart is broken, I really realized through the heartbreak that I had in that ending was that my heart was actually wide open. It wasn't broken. Like a broken heart is one that doesn't love again. I think that's just really important that recognizing that the pain you experience in heartbreak is actually validation that you love. And like, what a beautiful thing, although a painful truth.

The other side is using words like get back together. I really started to see it like, actually, you should never have to go backwards to get into any relationship. You should never have to turn down your volume for them to be the same person they were when you were in the previous version of the relationship is a failure of the pause is a failure of the space. So really, I think about it, getting together, moving forward. And if you're truly in your growth and learning from your breakup and in your zone and surfing and whatever it might be, your flow states, and you're just believing every day, you wake up and you say, I believe in miracles. They happen every day.

Let's be honest. They do. You can meet your person in any moment, literally any moment. But if you're so busy needing them to look like your ex or be your ex, you're actually not seeing the many, many thousands, millions of possibilities that are actually trying to look you in the eye. And so that is where the prison of a story needing to be a certain way can really keep reliving in our experience, not seeing that something greater is actually trying to meet you when you're ready. And that might be them. And you won't care when they show up if it's them or not.

And I think that's that beauty of being able to both have hope, because I'm not saying don't hope that it might be them, hope that whatever version of the relationship you really desire has perhaps them in it, but you're totally open to it not being them. I like the change in perception, the change in terminology that you just mentioned, getting together, moving forward, as opposed to getting back together. Like you're going back to this stagnant place. I think that's really important. And I mean, perception, we all know the way we speak to ourselves and the way we, what we put out to the universe is super, super important. But one quick question about your fiance. Was that, if you don't mind me asking, is that the fiance that you called it off with, or was this a relationship after that you then took the pause and then you got back together with? No, no, definitely not the same. Yeah.

16 years later, I got, yeah, I got engaged. And, you know, that's so, it was 15 years later from that previous engagement. And, you know, it was so beautiful about experiencing asking someone to marry me again was how different it felt that I was the right person, which is so interesting because previously I would have said my previous partner wasn't the right person, but she taught me so much. You know, my previous fiance is the one who put me on the path to have these conversations, to think about things. And that's why even if, is the timer wrong? Are they not the one? You look in hindsight and you can connect the dots and you say, what a beautiful journey when we're open. I think it's something that you've touched on a little bit, but also

it's such a big question that people have. How do you know that someone is the one? How do you look at that person and go, yes, this is the person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with? Even the idea of the one, you know, I always think of it as many ones. Like there are many ones out there. I had a friend who said to me once that exact thing about the plural being important, but also who is willing to work it out with you. That's how I see it. You know, like, are they kind? Are they generous? Those are the two qualities when they look at the research in hindsight, where are the most important qualities in really long lasting relationships, fulfilling relationships. Also, are they willing to repair, like to sit, to not make us sit in pain, you know,

and we prioritize repair in the relationship. I would say the one is someone that you have admiration for, you're attracted to, you have respect for. Those are all the really important sort of pieces that need to be there for the foundation. Do you have fun together? Are you curious about each other's worlds? Dr. Alexander Salman says that in your lifetime, you will be married many times and it might be to the same person or not. You know, this idea that the marriage is always changing the relationship is always changing because you are and because they are and when you start to think of it that way because we often look at our long-term partners and we're like i can finish your sentences like you haven't had any new shit happen in a long time

like kind of bored right and it's often because we stopped being curious about their world you know like i got home from a trip yesterday and saw my fiancee and asked her questions well gosh in the two days I'd been gone she had so many things happen like so many realizations about things so many things she'd learned and when you look at your partner from that space of what can I learn from you and is there a mutual feeling back I think that's so different you know I think of relationships so differently than I did when I was engaged the first time because I see them now as this beautiful sacred space that's so important well I think a pretty big tell if they're the one or not is if you're about to marry them and you Google, how do I know if they're the one?

That's a very good, that's easy. When you said that, when you said, you know, that you were Googling, are they the one? I reckon there are so many people out there who have been at that fork in the road or felt these feelings of anxiety in a relationship. And that is the Google search. Like, how do you know if they're the one, you know, and hoping for an answer, hoping for Google to literally just be like, this is it this is your person but there's so much more to unpack in that and well this is why marks does what he does because he googled are you the one didn't get his right answer so now he's like i will be the answer for everyone else i also think that if you're ever at a point in

your relationship where you're googling are they the one they're not they're probably not the fucking one like that's a pretty good litmus test i i think the you know the important question if someone had asked me then would your growth be staying or leaving my growth would have been leaving and i think that's important for people to what is abandoning yourself staying or leaving because sometimes you know for a lot of people and i would say what's true for me then but i just didn't know is i was actually super terrified of someone loving me so she wanted you know she is an incredible woman and that's what was so hard is that like why do i have this really incredible woman and i don't want to be in a relationship with her you know so i think you

You know, you're right. When you're starting to ask that, I would say that you're in a beautiful beginning to a journey of understanding. It's not a bad thing to Google something like that or ask that question. It actually means you care deeply about what you're giving your choice to. You know, what a beautiful gift it is to be chosen by someone and to choose. Like when we recognize the value of that, like I'm going to be with you over anybody else that I could choose. gosh when you recognize the power like that what like then you might do the work a little more too you know you don't let your shit slide as much as my sister and i would call it the front porch test just if you think can you picture yourself in like 50 or 60 years sitting on the front porch

next to someone in silent having a tea having a little chat having a girl can you picture yourself with them on the front porch in that amount of time that's what we always say and i don't like I don't know where we got that from. And I don't know if that's too deep or that's probably setting our standards. But yeah, I mean, you can take, you can use that if you want. I love it. That's going to be a, I'm going to share that one. I wanted to ask you a little bit about in your very first engagement and people like, no, no, no, it's, you know, you're just, you're just scared to get married at this idea that maybe men are more commitment phobic than women. How do you see commitment as in like the whole conversation around, like they're a commitment phobe in a

relationship, do you see it being more a male issue than a female issue or being more a gendered thing? Or do you think that we've just kind of lumped men into the same basket and been like, oh, men are the ones who have commitment issues. Women have other issues, but commitment phobic seems to be a more like gendered specific problem. Yeah, I agree. It certainly has been more assigned to men in the research. Women actually get more bored of monogamy faster. So that shows you how much our cultural messaging is so different than our actual experience. Yeah. You know, like when I consider a fear of commitment, because I think regardless of someone's gender, that is a very common feeling, afraid of closeness. I started to write about that

recently because I was thinking it's not actually that people are afraid of commitment. It's that they're afraid of what commitment has brought to them in their past, heartbreak, betrayal, that really being likely framed by our childhood, but also as adults. I was terrified of commitment because I thought it meant me abandoning myself. I thought it meant a woman leaving me, cheating on me, lying to me. And I didn't know all those stories were living below my fear of commitment.

It was so easy to just label me with that. And you know, when I said to people, I was scared to get married or I was feeling anxious, that reply was so dismissive to me. I was angry because I thought, here you want men who speak about their emotions and express them. And you just told me that I don't actually feel

the way I told you I feel. that pissed me off you know and that it really did and it really made me want to understand it on a deeper level and so i think fear of commitment is really fear of closeness it's a fear of closeness because closeness has led to pain so you know it's really people express in three ways in relationship one they express secure and secure would be my partner's needs matter as much as my own not less than my own not more than my own and the other one would be my partner's needs matter more right and that would be i'm afraid of space i'm afraid of distance and the other one would be i'm afraid of closeness you know and in attach that's really attachment style secure versus

anxious i'm afraid of space and versus avoidant i'm afraid of not having space it's so fascinating though that we end up in relationship with the person who if we're afraid of space they're the ones who need space and so when they need space it triggers us and so you could see how that perfect sort of, uh, the universe loves to put us with those people so we can deal with our shit. Mark, I have a question for all the single people. And I was, I was chatting with a friend about this just a couple of days ago, dating fatigue for these people. And I've been there, like, trust me, I was there. I'm probably going to be there again soon. When you just are like, I, I can't do it anymore. It's so soul crushing. I'm exhausted. I'm sick of going to meet people.

I'm sick of telling my story. I'm sick of being rejected, saying no, starting over. Then the feelings that come with it. Am I ever going to be the one? Why aren't I enough? Why aren't they picking me? I feel like it can be like a snowball effect. And then we hit this point where we're like, fuck it, I'm done. I'm not dating again. And we call that dating fatigue. What's your advice around that? Do you encourage being like, cool, take some time off, just relax, get back into it. Do you encourage people to keep pushing through because the one's not going to burst into their room fall on their lap and say let's get married what's your advice around it first off if the one does that that's probably kind of creepy uh they're a sociopath yeah then they're nuts

yeah i do think there's a lot of value in honoring your feeling of fatigue because really what it's saying is it's informing you that the way one is doing it is not productive or in alignment in some way you know i'd say if you're getting thoughts or feelings of like why never me why is no one's that's actually really important information because it shows you where you go into victim when you know when you're dating someone and they have that energetic it's pretty hard to choose you know like who wants to go on dates with people who are constantly mopey you know it's not you're not leaving empowered you know i think a lot of we don't do an often do audits of our lives to say what choices am i making that give me energy and dating

should be fun like dating actually should be a fun process it's the stories we tell ourselves around dating and also often recognizing that we don't realize we even have the choice i remember working i've worked with lots of people who would say oh so like i don't really want to go on another date with them but i went and i was like why why would you do that like and she was i remember one client saying so i don't have to go on a second date if i don't want to and i was like no oh my god what a waste of one's time but also you know where did that story come from and i i think there is an important shift of mindset that has to happen that dating can be such an empowering and healing process because I get to see where are my boundaries? Where are they not? Where do

I go on dates that I had a feeling earlier? I shouldn't have done that. So if it's starting to exhaust you, then I would actually look again at your strategy, you know, and who are you swiping right and left to? Can you get better at that? I've looked at people use their fucking app and I'm like, how do you swipe right to that? Like, I couldn't even believe it. There's so many red flags like i just want to knock their phone out of their hand you know and i think if we've never taken time to actually learn how to date you can learn how to date how to be good at it how to actually you know again you have to get to know what you value you have to get to know what you're actually looking for a lot of people say i don't know and i'm like bullshit you know below that i

don't want to declare something because i don't want to be disappointed and then when i meet someone and they go i'm not really looking for anything serious and i'm like oh neither am i bullshit you're just saying that so that you can maintain a connection to avoid actually having to sit in the discomfort of yourself which if you could do that if you could sit in the uncomfortable space of yourself then no longer will you be drawn to people who you're trying to fill that space with you're like i don't want dessert me either bitch you don't want that dessert order it but also like on this i think that there's so many people who they're frightened to ask questions in early on in dating. So you end up in these situationships that like go on for forever

because they're too scared to ask, what do you want? What are we, where are we heading? The questions that we put, like things that would put some definition around whatever is happening and whether you're actually compatible. We're too scared of the answer because we don't want the rejection that comes with the answer to ask the question in the first place. And a lot of people will avoid it. And so therefore they become more invested in something that they really shouldn't have been invested in the first place because there was a misalignment. Yeah, the whole irony of that, that I'm afraid to declare these things or get information about these things because I'm afraid of them maybe not being the one or feeling rejected when not declaring them or asking them is actually rejecting oneself. It's not saying I trust that I can find what I'm looking for and that I'm worthy of that thing.

So every time you don't ask that question to keep the one, which by definition, they're not the one, like by definition, if they don't want what you want and they don't choose you back, they're just not the one like that. The qualifier of someone being your person is that they want you to be their person. Like that's so simple. Spoiler. If they don't want you, they're not it. Right.

And that's so simple. I say to people like, don't just give someone the title, allow them to become it. Because what that means is that you're being discerning in the process and you're allowing yourself to observe the connection. If you live in a world where connections are scarce, which is only true if you believe it, then you're going to hold on to anything, even if it is not a good fit. And every time you hold up space with not a good fit, you don't create space for the right fit.

You waste your time in a world trying to make the story different than it actually should be which to be fair the pain of that awareness is to wake you up to that truth i'm coming in with a hard question mark let's do it fireworks and explosions versus the slow burn do you think you have to have that explosion on the first date and this like chemistry that's all consuming or do you think you can have a really nice time you don't feel that overwhelming sense of spark but you're like well it was nice he's really nice he wants what i want they want what i want should i go on a second day do you think do you believe in the slow burn as much as you do the fireworks i mean i would choose slow burn all day you know i think the reason i say that is one your

nervous system isn't hijacked so you're actually able to observe and and make good decisions ideally i remember listening to allison armstrong who's a teacher i remember she said if it's a 10 out of 10 in chemistry it's a no and i remember thinking to myself well that doesn't make any sense that's total bullshit now i totally actually understand that because the real haywire chemistry is usually a trauma bond you know to be fair it's usually like a distraction from actually getting to the thing we want and i think those are the ultimate tests it's like are you going to say no to what you know is an old pattern to sit in the space of discomfort of trusting that what you actually want will arrive and what's beautiful about that moment of lingering longer than you

ever have is you begin to arrive within your own heart within your own body the slow burn what's nice about it at least i'd say the one qualifier to it is that you need to be excited about the next date that was my only qualifier when i went on a date am i excited to get to know them more and to go on another date if that wasn't there then i just didn't pursue it and i also made a rule change because I used to operate chemistry forward or first. And I remember having this awareness when I was doing a meditation of just like, wow, I've used intimacy to decide if someone is a good fit rather than feeling like they're actually a great fit to know that the next step is intimacy. Like that actually the qualifier is that there is something to then go there rather

than I'm going there to figure out if there is something. That switch for me was everything because finally it wasn't like a horny, heartbroken teenager or man in his early, man is a strong term, in his early 20s with frosted tips and a puka shell necklace. It was... I would love to see you with frosted tips. Right. It was actually an adult starting to date. That was a big transitionary moment for me. Mark, you have an exceptional podcast of your own. It is aptly called The Mark Groves Podcast. Who has been your favorite guest that you have had on the podcast?

Oh, wow. Gosh, that's... Hard question. I mean, we haven't been on there yet, so otherwise that would be the answer. Yeah, yeah. We need to bring that on. I'd say it's a tie. Can I give a tie? Yeah, you can give whatever you want. Well, it's your rules, your show. I would say Zach Bush was one of my favorite, who's a physician who studies the microbiome and soil, but originally started as an internist and in palliative care. and that was transformative for me because he talked about the relationship to the earth and viruses and the microbiome and just how everything in the universe is working together with us uh that was just i've had him on twice and they're both my most popular episodes for people and then

i'd say one of the most powerful speakers i've heard in the last he's been a big teacher of mine for the last couple years is a psychotherapist and he calls himself a soul activist and his name is Francis Weller and he just has when I was going through the breakup with Kylie I found his words actually through her she shared them with me and I went on an adventure and he talked about how the soul likes to keep us on the edge of darkness that's where it dwells the power of darkness that our our hearts beat in the dark that the decay of leaves is the transition of birth. And I needed to hear all of those things because I felt like I was swimming in the heaviness of pain. And it was really teaching me that pain was just so transformative. And it was the first

time I'd ever gone through a breakup sober, you know, so I was forced to sit through all these things. And I, that ended up, that breakup ended up being one of the greatest gifts. And he has one line that I just love where he says that we spend our lives trying to seek belonging to finally be chosen. And at some point we have to become the place of welcome. And that really to me was like, I spent so much of my life wanting to be chosen, wanting to be loved, wanting to be enough. And it was through that breakup where I feel like turned around finally and wanted to become a place of welcome for other people. And so, yeah, his work has been really transformative for me. That's a great question, by the way. Thank you. I think that's something that almost

everyone will resonate with is the feeling of wanting to be chosen and wanting to be the one and wanting to be loved and i think that every so many people are going to relate to that but mark i just feel like i just had an amazing therapy session i've been hooked on every word from the very beginning i can't thank you enough for finally coming on the podcast you were a very difficult man to get a hold of but hey you're very in demand i'm so grateful to be on here and to finally have made it on you know i'll blame it on you yeah blame it on us yeah we kept on postponing we're so busy so busy speaking of responsibility for anybody who wants to find your instagram can you share all your handles so that they can

you know connect with you or follow you along listen to your podcast where can they find you yeah so first off honestly thank you so much for bringing me on and just trusting me with your people who trust you. That, that really means a lot. You can find me on Instagram at create the love. You can really find me on anywhere at create the love. And then I also have another Instagram handle called it's Mark Groves, where I talk more about psychologically what's been happening in the world for the last couple of years. And my podcast, you can find anywhere, obviously not egoically named after me just for simple simplicity. Yeah, exactly. And I have lots of courses on create the love.com where people can work on codependency they can work on dating they can

work through the breakup there's lots of stuff i just want to finish with a suggestion i feel like you need to have your own little segment of like meditative stories or sleep stories on like the car map or something because your voice is so soothing and i just i feel so relaxed listening to you talk so that's my suggestion for you i want to see it in the next 12 months i love it Mark, it has been awesome having you on the podcast. Thank you. You are an absolute legend. Thank you. I appreciate it. You know that we never finish our episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our lowlight of each and every week. Our suck being the worst thing that's happened and the sweet

being the best. Brittany, Hockley, you can kick it off. What has been your suck for the week? Okay. My suck's actually pretty funny. It's not a real suck, but it's funny. I went out on the weekend, single now, going out, trying to meet a girlfriend. She's on the dating app. She's living her best single life, trying to meet people in the wild. This girl comes up to me and she grabs me on the dance floor and she was like, oh my God. It was like really loud. She's like, oh my God. And I thought she was going to say like, I love the podcast. And I was like, hi. And she was like, my friend loves the podcast. And I was like, oh, okay. And I was like, cool. She's like, she's over there she will die if she can meet you and I was like yeah of course so she goes and

gets this girl and she brings her back and she throws it to me and looks at me and I was like hey thinking she loved me in the podcast because that's what she said and this girl just looks at me blankly and then the girl looks at the other girl and then the other girl looks at me and I was like hi and she goes am I missing something oh my god I am so confused stitch up I was like I'm so confused right now. And she's like, what am I missing? And the girl's like, it's Brittany. And she was like, what?

And the girl leans in and she's like, from the pod, I could hear her going, the podcast. And she's going, what podcast? She's like, Life Uncut. She's like, you love them. And the girl was like, what are you talking about? And it was the most awkward situation of my life. She looks at me and she goes, I listen to podcasts.

No idea who you are. And I was like, I don't know what's happening right now, but I'm going back to, so I don't know. And the girl looked at me and she goes, I don't know what's happening. I'm so sorry. so I still don't know if this girl actually was a fan and then just freaked out or if or if the friend got it really mistaken but it was the most awkward interaction of my life I was like okay this is this is a stitch up that I'm not I'm not subscribing to this I didn't opt into this

situation why why is this happening to me and I was the one that felt embarrassed I was like why am I embarrassed anyway that was my suck my sweet of the week is uh I thought your suck was gonna be that Delilah vomited in your brand new rug we literally got a brand new rug good I know I know you did but I write this shit in my notes so that I don't forget Brit got a brand new spanking rug in our studio room you would have seen it on our Instagram stories if you follow us it is so nice and then the day literally the day that the rug arrived the very first day that we ever recorded we were in there and we were recording an ass gun cut and Delilah sits in the middle of the fucking rug and she starts going and i was like i think your dog's about to cough up a hairball

she doesn't cough up a hairball she projectile vomits the amount of food dog food that a grown human would vomit up if they needed to vomit it was everywhere and then we had to stop mid record and pick chunks of dog vomit out of the carpet and then clean it and then brit sprayed so much cleaning product in the room that i thought i was gonna fucking asphyxiate that was the suck but it was worse because laura's like your dog's about to vomit you know how the dogs heave for a bit so i it was like slow-mo i got up and ran to get her because i was like if i can pick her up and get her out of the room in time she can vomit on the floorboard so it was the worst basically gave the dog the hind link maneuver and like projectile it across the fucking rug so i reached up and

picked her up and she was mid-air and i was trying to carry her out like a football and she starts vomiting so i made it worse because it sprayed across the whole rug instead of like one contained space there were chunks and it's one of those rugs that's like really long and fluffy so the vomit got real deep in there. So that was my suck. It was definitely a very, it's a very high pile rug, which is now has dog vomit deeply set into it. So don't worry, Britt, if you ever forget what your suck is, I am here to remind you how shit your week is. Yeah, thanks. I do have some really shit weeks. My sweet, you know what? My sweet this week was really, really simple. I had an amazing Greek meal and that sounds as silly as it can get, but that is my sweet. I just had

the best, you know, when you just sit down to a meal and a wine and you're just like, this is just like I was living I was in the moment I was feeling it I was full it was delicious I was just like it was a really happy moment so that's my sweet yeah like good company good food you literally can't beat it absolutely what about yours suck so my suck for the week actually my suck for the week is very similar to the accidentally unfiltered that was told today so I just the other day put on my Instagram how much I'm obsessed with this plant that I have I have a plant which I thought was called poison ivy but apparently it's called devil's ivy and I am like you've seen it in my yard brit it is this big beautiful the leaves are bigger than your face it

is fucking amazing this plant i'm pretty sure you don't want poison ivy in your backyard i have had this devil's ivy since i was like 19 years old i love it so much i like i take such good care of this plant and it's like one of the only plants i've been able to not only just keep alive but it has flourished in my care because it's an innocuous weed it's actually weed yeah you can't kill it okay however so I bought online all these actually I didn't buy them I got sent them for my birthday but I got sent plant food right like this spray you spray it on the leaves you spray it on the on the soil I've had it it's amazing yeah all these different things that you like put into like granules you put into the soil and everything anyway I was like so excited I decided I would

go and like give all my plants around the house like this TLC and I was like spraying my fucking plants with this plant food around the house and then I put the plant food down because Marley was doing something and I was like ran over to her and they put the plant food down on the bench and then I picked it back up and I walked out to my devil's ivy and I started spraying it and I was like why does this smell so eucalyptusy I sprayed my like my pride and joy with house cleaning products a natural house cleaning product that I put next to the plant food like they are the packaging looks identical it is like this perfectly natural cleaning products that's full of eucalyptus soil and I sprayed it all over my plants. And is it dead? Look, it's not dead, but it's pretty

unhappy. I spent the next 45 minutes like hand washing each leaf. I was like, I'm so sorry. The kids haven't had a bath. The kids haven't had a bath in a week, but you've just like washed your plant leaf by leaf. Literally leaf by leaf. So that was my suck. It didn't die, but I felt very, very stupid. It is. And it's definitely not as happy as what it was before it got doused in spray and wipe. And my sweet for the week is just that it was my birthday and I'm pretty low key for my birthdays I don't like you know I don't do big parties I don't make a big fuss about it but I felt like the people who are important to me in my life made a big fuss of me and made me feel really really important special so we had just had the most beautiful time we went for a gorgeous

dinner last night we had a babysitter for like seven hours and we went and had oh la la I think that's why I'm in such a good mood today and we had sex so there's been so many great things been happening. Congratulations. It's like you only do it twice a year. We are staying in a tiny villa and Matt's mom's staying with us. So yeah, sorry about that to my mother-in-law, but you know what? Times are tough. You got to take it when you can. Oh, you did it while they're all in there. That's great. She's in the room next door. It's fine. We're all very close. She was there when I gave birth to Molly. So I think it's fine. She can be in the room next door. Anyway, that's too much sharing for one evening, but that is it from us guys. We hope that you love the episode. We

hope that you love mark groves as much as we did honestly he is just the most amazing man and we hope that you got something out of the episode and feel a little bit more empowered in your relationships we're not going to tell you too much but stay tuned for next week because we have another absolutely killer episode that is bound to have you in stitches on the floor but please keep the accidentally unfiltered and the ass gun cuts and the confessionals and anything else that happens to you keep them sliding on into the dms on instagram life uncut podcast i also like that you're teasing next week's episode but we literally have two more episodes to come out before that episode comes out we do have ask uncut okay however i do want to make everyone aware i am taking this

week's ask uncut off and it is brit and keisha doing this week's cummings ask uncut so you will get a whole new perspective from someone who has lived it but is equally as unqualified as what i am but keisha and brit are going to be taking the microphones and doing ask uncut this week and giving me a day off for my birthday this is our birthday present to you we're like i'm gonna give one day off that is it i'm gonna go and have a massage and a mani pedi on thursday next week please if you haven't left us a review why not do that we haven't asked you to do that in a while so leave us a sneaky review five stars hit the follow subscribe button if you're feeling a little bit extra generous and don't forget to tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your friends and

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