Life Uncut - Dating a Narcissist

Episode Date: September 9, 2020

Narcissism. The word gives you the shivers right!? Its a term that often gets thrown around, we hear people speak about it a lot, but it can be really hard to pinpoint if you're actually dating one.The official definition of a narcissist, according to the Mayo Clinic, is a person who often lacks empathy, acts entitled, arrogant, and prioritizes themselves above all else.We want to deep dive into some narcissistic tendencies, red flags to look out for like love bombing, and what to do if you find yourself in an unhealthy relationship with someone with narcissistic tendencies.It’s important to remember that we are not clinical psychologists, but we are two women who have both had intense relationships with people that fit this mould and we want to shed some light on it in the hopes that it can help others. We talk about our own experiences and share learned information. If you want to keep us in your ears, please hit 5 starts, leave a review, tell your friends and share the love, because, well, we love love. XTthis episode could be triggering for someone that has had dealings with people like this in the past. If that is you, you may want to reconsider listening. Please remember, If you’re having troubles in any aspect of your life, you’re not alone and websites such as lifeline are always there to help. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you play with your head, it's going to keep falling off, Brittany. She's talking about my microphone, guys. Am I? Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura and I'm Brittany and psych! This is our Tuesday episode on Thursday. I know we've done the whole switcheroo. If you listened to Tuesday's episode then you would know this week we did Ask Uncut on Tuesday which means that today is the big meaty episode. Just the way you like it. And we do have a big one to unpack today but we're not going to get in there yet. Let's unpack our life Laura. Can

we keep talking about meaty and getting in there that gets you going doesn't it yeah it's the little things these days isn't it oh well yep the small thrills the cheap thrills anyway what have you been doing in the last 48 hours so I a couple weeks ago I was telling you guys about how I was really really anxious about getting Marley into daycare and today we had orientation she's in my wild anxiety has not subsided at all I spent the whole time one hour of orientation and this lovely lady was trying to like talk me through like the day and what they do and what they eat and all this stuff and all my brain was doing was looking at small things on the ground being like that's a choking hazard that right there is a choking hazard that boy's got her eye on her

that's a choking hazard why is that kid got an ice pack on his head what did he run into what happened to you she's definitely gonna run into something she's gonna fall over she's gonna have scratches. Can you just stop? That doesn't make me feel any better, Brittany. No, but it should because this is life. You're going to get knocked down. She's going to learn to get back up real quick. This is how you teach your kids a bit of resilience. And I think that this is going to probably teach me a bit of resilience as well. I think this is going to be a really hard time for you at the start. And then I think you're going to love it. I think you're not going to know yourself having all this extra time. You're going to love that she's socialized and she's going to

make little friends. She's going to have an amazing time. So she starts next week and I figure by about the three or four week mark I'll probably just drop her off in the morning and forget that I even put her there yeah you went back a week later and pick her up yeah you even know who she is yeah she's got a boyfriend a tattoo and she's moving out on Friday you'll be back home drinking margaritas I wish I win tell me how your day has been I've seen you I mean I haven't seen you for a whole 12 hours I know it's been a long 12 hours my day I had the day off the hospital I went to a fancy pans lunch for an hour and it was brilliant then I just came home and worked got ghosted by a guy i was seeing but we're not going to talk about that actually we are going

to talk about that last week britney had a boyfriend and this week he's gone missing she uses that term loosely i was going on some dates with a guy um but he has disappeared should we start putting out the missing person poster at what at what point like how many days can you go without hearing from a guy before you have been categorically ghosted where does it where does it I don't know. I think it depends on how it ended. But I also haven't messaged him since. It's been like four days.

She's adding another one to the list. Single in your 30, guys. If you haven't listened to that episode yet, we highly recommend. Get on it. It's a bloody battleground out there. But you know what? This behavior has been, I think we like to kind of pretend like it's new age, like that the ghosting is a new thing.

Ghosting has been around for forever. Yeah, forever. Except back in the day, it probably, it would happen in like a less significant way. like obviously if someone didn't call your landline again they were gone you didn't know what happened to them the problem with ghosting now is that you can check up on them on social media you can check up on them and see what they're doing so you can be like oh well i know you're not dead but back in the day you just wouldn't hear from them and you'd be like oh they've been abducted by aliens anal probing it's the only thing that makes sense anal probing

anal probing is not the only thing that makes sense but i love that that's the conclusion you've gone to naturally no look in all honesty i could have also contacted him we both went away for the week we saw each other before the weekend we went away for the weekend neither of us have contacted each other so i'm probably as bad as him but i did send the last text so that makes me feel better it's also still early days like you could and probably will hear from him again but my question my other question is i have a few questions and feelings about this love that is how many days can pass before you get that hey how you been text and it be okay if you haven't seen or heard from him for like six months and he's like hey sup what have you been doing or is

it like a week like where's that line in the sand where you're like oh okay well we were texting every day and now I haven't heard from you for two weeks now after two weeks I'm like hey bae who dis that's my response sorry I've got a new number hey bae yeah sorry I deleted my contacts who's this no do you want to know another thing I've started my half marathon training I went for one my first run I was like you know you wake up those days actually you might not you know you wake up those days you feel extra motivated you're like i'm gonna go and slay the fitness world yeah no i can't relate but that's okay okay so that's the that's i don't like running but i'm doing this half marathon so i was like i woke up and i was like this is the day i'm on it had a fake tan

on so i felt good so i put my shorts on put my runners on don't laugh fake tan makes everything better and i was like i'm gonna go and start training i went on this one run pulled my muscle and had to like limp back i was like this is disaster contrary to popular belief fake tan does not make you run fast that no so let's get into an accidentally unfiltered all right guys well it is time for our favorite part of the episode and that is when you send in your most embarrassing stories and we all laugh at you together like the beautiful wonderful heartfelt community that we are i'm gonna kick it off that was so deep deep like a puddle guys all right so i just started a new job and my boss is freaking hot i'm talking like 10 out of 10

crash your scooter type hot. To anyone who listened to the episode a few weeks ago you would get that reference. That was the guy that ghosted me. After working in a female dominated industry for the last few years you can imagine my excitement at this. So of course I told all of my friends about my new boss day. In COVID fashion I had to do all my training online meaning zoom calls with the man himself. Day one on the job and I had my first zoom meeting with him. i was having some technical difficulties so i shared my screen so that he could see what i was doing on my computer and to my absolute fucking horror minutes into sharing my screen a notification popped up front and center from my best friend saying hey babe so when's the

call start with your future hottie hobby i tried to hide it as quickly as i could being the absolute 10 out of 10 that he is he acted like he didn't see anything but that didn't stop me from going bright red and him also laughing for the rest of the meeting I'm planning your funeral now I just love this do you know how many stories I have now heard about people sharing their screen and having like super inappropriate tabs open I have heard no stories but I love this so much I was on a zoom meeting just recently oh my god this is a totally different thing I was on a zoom meeting recently and I'm so convinced the person I was on a zoom meeting with just farted and kept talking they would have for sure so good they were also based in melbourne

so it's totally excusable all like sense of self has kind of gone out the window do you know what just because they're in melbourne yeah because you've been in lockdown true true i mean we were only in lockdown for a few weeks and i had to train myself not to fart in public again like a boss anyway but no so i've received messages that have come in i mean we've received messages that have come in um which haven't been like full accidentally unfiltered stories but people who have accidentally shared their screen with colleagues or bosses and they've had like porn tabs or dildo or sex shops or things open as well so i think that this has happened more than once i'm gonna tell you my accidentally unfiltered that i'm bringing to the table today

because it's fucking brilliant i am just gonna i'm just retelling the story guys because this lovely lady she actually voicemailed in her story so she she dm'd us with the voice memo on instagram because she just thought it was so funny so i'm just going to retell you the story basically she was seeing this guy she was super super super into him she thought he was so hot now this woman does something that i used to do you might remember when the way that accidentally unfiltered started if you guys are an original listener you'll know that it started because my sister and i do this thing where we send each other photos and videos of our day we vlog to each other and it's always ugly photos we're always trying to out ugly each other like in the most hideous costumes

I accidentally sent one of those to a guy I was seeing and that is how accidentally unfiltered started so fast forward a year this girl's gone on this really hot date and she does the same thing with her best friend they vlog their days to each other which is very modern day this is Very Gen Y. Basically, like, they take a little video, like, hey, babe, like, today, blah, blah, blah, and then they send it instead of having to have a phone call or whatever. Instead of calling or texting, they just constantly take the video recording and send it to each other.

So she's got on this date with this guy who she thinks is fucking the ant's pants. So she gets home and she puts on her big, pink, ugly, fluffy dressing gown. She's taking her makeup off. So she's got her hair on top, no makeup on. She's got this big, hideous, ugly, pink, fluffy dressing gown, and she goes to town on the vlog to her friend saying how amazing the date was how hot he was how in love she is how she thinks it's the best thing ever she goes on and on and on and she makes a point of being really ugly in the video because that's what's funny with a friend sends it to a

friend and then goes fuck she sent it to the guy she's been just been on the date with now this i know you think that this couldn't get better but it does because she had just been on the date with him and she was like feeling him out so she's like so like you know where do you see this going like what are you looking for and he goes definitely not looking for a relationship looking for something really casual and she's like oh totally like me too i'm i'm just like super casual as well gets home 10 minutes later and vlogs him how we're getting married i've already picked the venue the date and the people who are doing the flowers it's gonna be beautiful keep the 11th of November free I actually I was dying like I couldn't stop laughing and my heart

goes out to her but she laughed it off she was like what do you do actually what do you do nothing you own it the voice memo came through when Brit had come over to my house so we both got to listen to this back together and simultaneously died on the couch for you you're out there you're listening you know what we might be laughing at you but we're really laughing with you. So don't worry. I'm laughing so much because I've done exactly the same thing. So I feel for you, but bless your soul. I hope you do marry him. I have another one. I know that like, we usually only do tit for tat, but I'm going to chuck another one out here anyway, because this is like really innocent. I love it when people write in there, like, this is my friend's story.

A friend of mine recently told me this story and I wanted to share it with you guys. So she was expecting her sister and little nephew to come for morning tea. So when she heard the doorbell ring, she got super excited and she opened the door on her knees expecting her little nephew only to find that she was staring at crotch height to a delivery man now what makes this thing worse is that she opened the door saying hello little man with her arms out wide i love it he would have been like bing go just staring straight at the guys pain anyway I am dead I love it hello little man I have one more too we're not getting into the episode today guys I hope you enjoy this 25 minutes of accidentally

unfiltered stories and that's a wrap this is one more you know I have a friend I'm not gonna name his name but I have a friend that's like a solid gamer you know a gamer that I don't know if you guys aren't into gaming they wear their headphones they play video games in their lounge room but they connect they're talking live it weirds me out I once had to wear a virtual reality gaming mask I didn't have to but like I chose to I was dating a guy who was wearing one and I but I didn't realize that you can do virtual reality porn and so I looked down I had a dick did you do virtual reality porn how have you never told me this will we have a dating relationship sex podcast it's he was yeah it was a thing oh we need to unpack this another day another

episode continue with your story he there's this guy that's a gamer right he's got his headphones on he's in his lounge room he's deep in this game and he's talking to like 10 other people around the world because they're playing against each other but they're all connected by microphone his girlfriend comes in and she's frisky af so she's like whoa let's do this he's like boys i am out throws his mic and things down logs off and then they go to town having hardcore sex in the lounge room hardcore he what swings and whips and belts and stuff loud hard sex did not turn his microphone off so the 10 people around the world that his friends that he talks to all day every day just all sat there listening to him having sex and they couldn't reach him they were like

yelling in their headphones like mate mate mate like make it stop no and it just they just went to town that's a lot of trauma right there that's a lot of suppressed trauma that's gonna need to is a therapy thank god thank god it wasn't video it was just mike like that's that's something if there's anything is there's a plus you can take away from this is that it wasn't recorded it was just sound and you can always mute that like i mean they were volunteering to listen to that they didn't have to listen oh you would too you did virtual reality porn sex i never did the sex i just like wore it and like well you virtually did it that's the whole point you have a penis it's very strange you're so every week there's something else that's weirder and I'm like how

have we gone to this point of our relationship and I don't know this I'm just a bundle of surprises for you Brittany like I put virtual reality on but I was like running through a daisy field well that just really shows the differences between you and me as a person doesn't it I think that that right there has just perfectly summed up our relationship really drives it home Guys, before we get into the full topic today, today we're talking about narcissistic personality disorder. We're also talking about just narcissism in general, and we're going to unpack what this means, what it is, how to identify it, and also what you do if you find yourself in a relationship with somebody who is narcissistic. And what, you know, how do you deal

with like you have a family member or maybe a parent who's narcissistic? So we are going to be talking about this today, but obviously before we get into it, we know that this can be a really triggering subject matter and a really triggering experience for anybody who's actually survived a narcissistic relationship. We just want to put that out there before we get started. Also you know if you haven't been through a narcissistic relationship at all this is still going to be a great episode that will like help you identify any red flags so that you know what to look for if you ever find yourself dealing with someone either in the workplace who's a narcissist and I just think there's little bits that we can all take from this episode. I'm really excited about this and

the reason why I'm excited about this episode which is a weird word to use I know that but I'm excited about this episode because some of you might know this if you've been following the podcast from the very very beginning but basically the reason why Life Uncut started was because Britt and I sat down for breakfast this one day when we barely barely knew each other and we got chatting about why we did the show like how our ex relationships had kind of transpired the two of got talking about these really toxic relationships that we had both had. Britt has spoken very openly about hers on episode three, which is the sociopath episode about how she dated someone for several years who had a completely double life. And I spoke really openly with Britt about my

relationship with someone who had very severe narcissistic tendencies. That was where Life Uncut came from because we sat down and we started having these conversations and we knew that there would be other people out there who may have been in the exact same situation as us have experienced the same things and would get something out of having these conversations on a more public platform I do feel like it is really common for women to get together and it seems to be the thing that bonds women it seems to be the things that they trauma that yeah that they relate to I mean if you guys think about now to yourself anyone any girlfriend you've ever sat down with you will often talk about past relationships good and bad but often you're bonding over

you are it's I don't want to use the word trauma but bad experiences crazy things that have happened funny things that have happened you always bond over past experiences we bonded over the bachelor as a past experience but that wasn't what actually galvanized us yeah that wasn't what cemented this relationship it was like what the fuck we've both been with these crazy people like the same thing happened to me and this is how I felt this is and then we just got drawn into this um this this idea of like there's got to be more people that have experienced this and we want to talk about and we want to help them and so that's where the whole life uncut stemmed from today like laura said we have put the trigger warning out it's not going to be

for everyone if you do think that this could affect you for sure tune out we don't want we don't want this to bring up any um bad feelings or or things from the past that are going to affect you now so that's our little warning for you but we do really want to reiterate that we are not trained professionals and everything we're speaking about in this episode is just a discussion between two people that have experienced it themselves so we're just two women that have been through this together we've had the experiences ourself we have spoken to therapists about it we've spoken to other people about it we've done our own research past and present so at the time that we're experiencing it and now particularly for this episode yeah and we did put it out on the

Facebook group as well about you know if you guys had any questions about dealing with people who are narcissists or dealing with a narcissist in your life and there was some amazing questions that were put forward I actually was so blown away by how many people have been affected by this there are some questions that we're going to answer to the best of our ability the unqualified advice that you all come here for and there are also some questions which I've kind of banked because we're going to get a clinical psychologist on the podcast to really unpack different types of personality disorders. But what we wanted to start with today and talking about narcissism, calling people a narcissist, this seems to be like a very on-trend and fad-driven thing at the moment

where, you know, you go through a bad relationship, there is some toxicity there, and the fallback word for labeling someone is to call them a narcissist or to say that they have narcissistic personality disorder. But the reality is only 1% of the population, these stats come from the Mayo Clinic online, 1% of population potentially has narcissistic personality disorder. It's an incredibly difficult mental illness to be able to actually diagnose because the problem is that many people who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder will never seek treatment and they are in absolute denial that they suffer from it. So narcissistic personality disorder is the is the most extreme version of it and it is a mental illness now there are also people who are

just your general everyday narcissist there's a lot of fuck boys fuck girls and fuck people out there but there's also just your general narcissist or people have who have very very high and strong narcissistic tendencies it makes them a narcissist but it doesn't mean that they have narcissistic personality disorder and it's i think it's really really important for us to distinguish that they are two very different things and unless someone has been actually diagnosed with NPD then you can't diagnose a friend you can't diagnose a boyfriend and you can't diagnose a family member all you can do is look at the facts and look at the information and then make the best decisions for yourself if you think somebody is displaying narcissistic narcissistic traits then it gives you

the tools to be able to protect yourself as best you can before we get into it I'm just going to give you a proper definition from the mayor clinic narcissistic personality disorder is one of several types of personality disorders it's a mental condition in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance a deep need for excessive attention and admiration troubled relationships and a lack of empathy for others but behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism now that's um that's from the mayor clinic that's actually an interesting sentence there where it says they actually have this fragile self-esteem and they're quite they can be quite vulnerable because I think it's a common

misconception that narcissists are always these super super high functioning arrogant overly confident charismatic assholes that is that is the term that a lot of people that is sort of what a lot of people imagine a narcissist to be and I don't think there's a lot of people realize that there can be these underlying confidence issues. Well, that also kind of brings us into the next part is the fact that there are many different types. There isn't just one sort of label that brands every single narcissist the same. There are covert narcissists, which are also coined as being vulnerable narcissists. And then there are another thing called grandiose narcissists. Now, the thing that details and signifies NPD is when somebody characterizes and displays both of those

personalities at the same time so very few people are grandiose and also vulnerable narcissistic personality types at the very same time so just to kind of break those down a little bit somebody who has a covert narcissistic tendency is somebody who is innately very very insecure which is is definitely not the most common one i think it's something that um that almost goes a little bit unspoken about when people talk about narcissism people genuinely talk about this person who has a really big ego and uses other people to feed that ego. So somebody who has covert or vulnerable narcissism, they are extremely sensitive to any type of criticism to the point where it's almost as though anybody else's feelings about things are invalid and only their feelings are

what's most important. And it's kind of the mentality of like, well, I'm doing such a good job and nobody recognizes me which is very different to a grandiose personality type which is I'm doing a good job and everyone knows I'm doing a good job they're the kind of two different types of narcissism that we're going to be talking about yeah the thing with covert narcissism is that they are really highly sensitive and they're highly sensitive to emotions it's just that they're only sensitive to their own emotions and I think that's the distinguishing feature they're sensitive to emotions not yours I couldn't give a fuck about yours it's literally like to put it simply it's it's only things that are going to affect them that make them emotional they don't

have that connection when when they see that you're upset they see that you're upset but they don't care that you're upset yeah and that's like the common theme throughout it like dealing with somebody who's extremely narcissistic there's this lack of empathy and this lack of really trying to understand and respect somebody else's feelings because they will always prioritize their own ego and their own feelings over the top of anything else and they're really driven by this idea of being superior of being important so they're usually attracted to quite high-powered or jobs that sort of give them a lot of affirmation and when I was doing some research I kind of found this pretty funny but obviously social media influencers are up there yeah I mean that's

yeah this is why we're talking about it guys we identify I believe that for sure yeah so I mean social media influencers they get a lot of their gratification and their validation from people who they don't know and that kind of feeds into their narcissistic supply that's not to say that all are by any means but it definitely would attract people who have those tendencies as well surgeons and people who work in like high-powered medical industries also politicians and business tycoons so these are like the top listed of professions that really attract narcissistic personality types. I think this is a really important time just to make note that there can be healthy narcissism. Every single person, like you just said, for example, social media

influencers are on the list. For sure, there's a bunch that are narcissistic. But I think it's really interesting that when I was doing my research, I found that they literally say everybody in the world has some characteristics that are narcissistic. Like we are humans and it's unavoidable. But according to what they call the DSM-5, which is the Diagnostic and Statistic Manual, which is the go-to manual, it's like the Bible for this sort of stuff. To be clinically diagnosed with NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, a person has to exhibit at least 55% of the most common signs of narcissism. So long story short, there's a list, there's nine things on the list, nine traits. You have to have 55% of them to be diagnosed as a narcissist, but I can

guarantee you if we read through them which we will there'll be one at least that everyone's going to be like oh yeah if I'm being honest like I'm guilty of that absolutely and I think that that's a really important thing to kind of spend some time on is this fact that like narcissism is not you're a narcissist you're not a narcissist it's a spectrum and at the very far end of that spectrum is NPD and at the very end of that spectrum is an empath and we all sit somewhere with on that spectrum of what a narcissist is and I think that you know we can be very guilty and people can be very guilty of pointing the finger and blame shifting in relationships and it can be very easy to call someone a blanket narcissist but maybe they've just behaved in a

bit of a selfish way really but we'll quickly run through what those nine those kind of nine red flags are to look out for and the nine things that are what identifies someone as being narcissistic. I want to read them to you and I want you to tell me if you think you take any of them. You don't even have to tell me which ones, but just make a note in your head. Okay. And you guys, as I'm reading them, just make a note yourself. If there's any that you think, well, I'm a bit like that. You don't even have to ever share this. Okay. So these are not all the signs, but these are the most common signs. A grandiose sense of self-importance and exaggerates achievements and talents. Number two, dreams of unlimited power, success, brilliance, beauty or

ideal love. Three, requires excessive admiration. Four, believes he or she is special and unique and can only be understood by or should associate with other people of high status. Five, lacks empathy for the feelings and needs of others. Six, unreasonably expects special favorable treatment or compliance with his or her wishes. Seven, exploits and takes advantage of others to achieve personal ends. Eight, envies others or believes they are envious of him or her. And nine, has an attitude of arrogance or at least acts that way. I'm going to be straight up honest I'm gonna own this one this one really resonated with me number two dreams of unlimited power success brilliance beauty or ideal love like for sure I want success beauty brilliance

ideal love like I always that's probably my problem is that I look for an ideal love maybe so 100% my hand is up for number two yeah and I guess there's definitely other things in there as well which you're like well I'm not like that all the time but I've definitely done it from time to time Does that make me an asshole? Probably. There's probably somebody out there who I have treated badly in a past relationship who would look at this list and say, that's Laura. Is that me all the time? Absolutely not. When I read that number two as well, I'm like, I don't want power. Like power to me is such a weird word. I don't want to have power over people. The thought of that makes me feel really uncomfortable. Yeah. I don't like the power word, just the success,

brilliance, beauty, and ideal love. Yeah. Do I, do I fantasize about ideal love? Yeah, sure. Do I fantasize about Channing Tatum? I'm hoping to have to, I'm hoping to be in a predicament where I have to choose between Liam Hemsworth and Zac Efron. That is what I'm hoping happens in Byron Bay next week. Fantasies, there we go. We've very much gotten off topic here. But anyway, so I think like next we can kind of move into a little bit about being in a relationship with someone who's narcissistic and how that kind of plays out. And I have spoken a lot on this podcast before about my past relationships. We've never done a dedicated episode to the train wreck that was one of them. I guess like when I uncovered what a narcissist

was, I'd never really, I mean, of course I'd heard the word, but I'd never ever actually unpacked what it's like to be in a narcissistic relationship. And after two years, I ended up in therapy after having a terrible breakup. I'd been cheated on again. And there was this constant lying and we were on and off and it was very, very volatile. And I ended up sitting down with the counsellor because I, I actually sat down with the counsellor and really expected the counsellor to be like, help me. I wanted her to help me be better so that he would accept me more. And I wouldn't keep being the problem in the relationship. Like this was, this was how, how much my self esteem over the two years has been doodled down into nothing. So you went in there thinking you'd

been convinced that every problem in the relationship was you and the only way to fix it was that you had to change I had gotten to the point in our relationship where I mean I for me an open relationship is not something that I want at all but I had gotten to the point in our relationship where I was contemplating being in an open relationship so that he could be in an open relationship and I was prepared to lower my standards so much just so that way he wouldn't be breaking my standards anymore like my boundaries yeah my boundaries no longer existed and I have never ever been so confused so lost in myself I didn't know who I was anymore I didn't know what I stood for and I was so embarrassed to my friends to my family because I felt like

how could I possibly have gotten to this point at that time I thought maybe if I was more beautiful he won't do this maybe if I'm funnier he won't do this maybe if I can change something about myself it'll make him want to be with me more and then the relationship will work like I can fix this and that's when the therapist sort of said to me like I don't know if you've ever researched narcissistic behavior she's like obviously I can't say that that's what this person is because you know when you go to a therapist they're only hearing one side of the story so it could be biased but she gave me the tools to really unpack what I was going through and I started reading a lot about it and I and I and I literally saw in the information that was in front

of me my relationship and how it had unfolded and so the very start of our relationship and this is a very key telltale sign of meeting someone who is narcissistic is this concept of love bombing that happens at the beginning of the relationship so when when I first got into this relationship I have never felt more loved, more special, more like I had a soulmate connection than I did in the first couple of months of being with this person. And it was because they idolized me. They would bring me gifts. They would show up at my work. They would call me, text me incessantly. And it was this completely all-consuming, all-infatuating, ridiculously intense relationship that I'd never experienced before and I was like this is what love is and then all of a sudden

shit changed really really quick really quick I had exactly the same thing when I was just reading out those nine characteristics or the most common characteristics of a narcissist my ex the sociopath the psycho and he actually is I'm not just I don't throw that term around he he ticks every single one every single one of those nine and I'm not just I'm not being a bitter ex like I'm so happy to talk about it and be super honest about it but he ticks every single one and the way I spoke about in episode three so I dated a sociopath but I'm just gonna jump in again now and discuss it the way that he hooked me was exactly the same bombarded with love I have never I was the most special human in the universe that's how I felt I was like whoa

this is love this is what I'm supposed to feel this is how someone's supposed to treat me the attention that I got and I'm talking it wouldn't have been unusual to get 100 messages a day multiple medias that was via email that were phone calls that was text messages actually there were two emails but that's because he made me make another email but that's a long story but like all day and he would turn up at work as well he all the things you said um take me away this is and this is guys this we're gonna get into red flags this is a big one anyone that told you they love you in the first two three red flag I'm not saying they're a narcissist but there's something to be said for someone that says within two weeks they love you because you

just don't know human enough sure you can have this infatuation and the lust absolutely but someone that's like you are the love of my life and I'm not saying that there aren't people out there that are like they're for sure people that have met and within two weeks said they love each other and they ended up together totally but I think the thing to keep in mind is if you are someone who has experienced that and you are still with that person life is great you are the exception. That is not normal for most couples in relationships. So if you do find yourself in that situation, like Britt just said, where it's all consuming and this person's telling you they love you straight away and it seems too good to be true, sometimes it's because it is too good to

be true. And this can be a really big warning sign that something quite toxic is about to shift in the behavior. So this phase that we're talking about is called idealization. And this is a characteristic of narcissistic relationships. Basically it's part of, it's part of the entrapment. It's, it's this idolizing of you. And then you become so in love with the person who is narcissistic that you feed their ego. You give them everything they want. You are completely succumbed to the relationship. Then what happens is maybe they'll pick a fight with you. For me, it wasn't, um, for me, it wasn't that he picked a fight for me. It was that we were out at a nightclub and he started texting another girl and was obviously flirting with

girls right in front of me. And it was that the switch in his behavior was so severe that it was almost like Jekyll and Hyde. I didn't understand who I was out with that night. I was like, what is going on? Like, what are you doing? Are you, have you taken drugs? Are you drunk? Like what is this person? And, um, and there was just this complete two-phase nature. What happens is this, this is called the devalue phase. So the devalue phase of the relationship, it really makes you super confused and you start to question your reality and you question if even what's happening around you is real. And then that creates anxiety in you. And that anxiety and that fear of losing the person is actually what strengthens the bond and what starts to make

this narcissistic relationship so incredibly toxic and like a drug. Because every time you go through this idealization phase and then a devalue phase, it strengthens those bonds and you become closer and closer to the narcissist and it becomes harder and harder for you to actually leave. And so for people who this goes on for years for, it's why actually leaving a relationship with a narcissist is one of the hardest things to do. It's one of the hardest things to do and it's something that family and friends often can't relate to unless they've actually experienced it themselves because your friends and family can often see what's happening but part of what a narcissistic person will do of someone who's truly truly narcissistic is that they isolate

you from your friends and family and they make it so that you don't have your support network where in that moment they're the people that you need the most personally I found I lost one of my best friends during this relationship I was her maid of honor and I was uninvited to her wedding because of his really bad behavior at her engagement party but because I was so in love with him and so scared of losing the relationship I chose to defend him and not defend the friendship can I ask what he did or you don't talk about it no I can talk about it he um just out of curiosity to be uninvited to a wedding I feel like pretty big thing she was my best friend from school we were at the engagement party and he he just started being really really overtly sexual towards

one of the other bridesmaids commenting on her boobs made her feel very very uncomfortable and he was obviously flirting with her but was really pushing the boundaries in a way that I mean I wasn't there when this was happening I was in the other room and she then went obviously told my friend and so my girlfriend came and said to me like this has happened and I chose not to believe it and when I confronted him about it he said that my friend was a liar it never happened he would never do that he loved me and so I felt like I felt like I had found this incredibly special relationship and people were trying to ruin it for me because I had to choose between what was being said and what was actually happening well that's the whole point that's

what they want you to believe isn't it that's where that friendship ended up dissolving it became to a point where my girlfriend had said I don't want him at our wedding and I was like well he's my boyfriend if you don't want him at the wedding I'm not going to come to the wedding and then that was it I didn't end up going to the wedding which in retrospect I look at that now and I think it's so fucking sad you're so in love and you do get to a point where you think that the world's against you and like this person would never lie to you because you you you do have a different connection with your partner than you do with your friends and like you will love your friends and trust your friends and they're everything to you but there's you can't deny

that there's not a different kind of bond with a lover, husband, partner. So you weren't making a decision based on the fact that you were trying to end a friendship. You honestly believed that they were trying to end your relationship. So I think that's different. Totally. And I think the thing that we need to keep in perspective is that when you're in a relationship with someone who is very, very narcissistic, they are a drug. The person who is the supply ends up almost needing them as much as the narcissist needs them in return. So it's toxic from both sides of the relationship for sure I want to get into another I mean this all ties in together but the next sort of thing I want to talk about is gaslighting we have done a whole episode on it guys a few episodes

back you can go and have a listen to that one but we can't not mention it here because it's such a huge part of a narcissistic relationship the whole idea is they're manipulating you they want to make you believe that the whole world is wrong everything they say is gospel they start to make you question yourself, your own sense of reality, what you know to be true every time you go to question them on something because you're going to. There's no way that you can be in a relationship like this. Like even like you just said, Laura, like the time comes where you have to go to him and say, did this just happen? Did you just do this? Did you just say this? Like, did you actually go there? And they're going to come back at you and they're going to start gaslighting because

they need to get you back on their side. My ex did it to me all the time, all the time. I would go to him knowing he had been like deep down knowing he'd just been with someone else knowing he'd cheated knowing that things were not adding up and I would leave the conversation thinking how apologizing to him and thinking how could I have gotten that so wrong like I'm going crazy he would make me think I was going crazy and that is something you really really need to be aware of if you start questioning your own reality it's a really big red flag that they're trying to put you in this little box and cut you off from the rest of the world. It's such a weird thing because this sort of like relationship terminology is only stuff that you become super aware of. I think once

you've been in this type of relationship, like prior to experiencing this myself, I'd never heard of the word love bombing. I'd never heard of the word gaslighting. I didn't know that these things actually existed until experiencing them and being amidst the absolute confusion that it throws you into. And then when you come out on the other side and you actually read the definitions for some of these things and you go, holy fucking shit, that was my whole relationship. And I think a lot of people who experience these relationships have this retrospective outlook on it that they go, oh my God, that's what happened to me. And acknowledging that and being able to identify and label things, there's a lot of power in that as well. Another thing to notice is when you're

in this conversation and they're gaslighting you, right? So when you go to them and you say, did this happen not only is it common for them to say to you you're going crazy this would never have happened you know people are lying to you they're always going to do that but then what they do is throw in a compliment to they're throwing some praise to make you feel good to make you feel like oh okay not only am I going crazy but this guy is a good person an example you're crazy everyone's lying to you how can you possibly believe them you know how amazing I think you are and you know I love you so that's it so all of a sudden you've gone oh I'm crazy this guy loves me so much and that's how they keep you hooked there is this

complete lack of empathy and I think that that people who are very narcissistic are actually able to fake it really really well so like you might so good man so you might think that like they might be crying they might be groveling they might be begging for you to stay and apologizing and doing all the things that would what that would signal that actually they're really really sorry and then as soon as you're back in and you've been hooked back into the relationship the exact same behavior starts happening again and there was really no real remorse there it was almost very performative because they know exactly what to do to get what they need out of you in order to keep you there because the relationship itself and the purpose that you serve in that

relationship is that you feed their ego and often people who are narcissistic are actually really attracted to empaths and people who have a lot of feelings and care a lot because they they are often more flexible with their boundaries than people who are very strong-willed and are not as sensitive or driven by their feelings so it's kind of the difficult thing is that you know somebody who is narcissistic is attracted to an empath and an empath is attracted to a narcissist and often you'll find that if you keep getting into the same types of relationships that are narcissistic relationships it's because maybe you do fall into that type of category which once you're aware of but it allows you to be able to work on yourself to be able to identify those things as well.

The next thing that we want to jump into is it's one thing to start to see the red flags and have this realization that maybe you're dating a narcissist. This relationship with this person is not healthy. How do you extract yourself from that? It is one thing to leave a normal relationship and have a breakup and move on. And it is a whole nother ball game to try and extract yourself from a relationship or a situation with a narcissist or someone with narcissistic tendencies it's a whole another ball game people don't understand they don't understand the depth of the of the addiction that you kind of have for somebody when you're in that type of relationship and also the fact that they are so manipulative in trying to get you to stay

in my case I ended up having to move and I ended up selling my car because I just actually felt like I was never ever going to be free of the relationship because every single time I would get a little bit further away something would happen and I get sucked back in and it was very all-consuming I think the other thing to remember as well is that there's a lot of guilt attached when you have found yourself in these relationships and you and you are in this phase of going back and forth back and forth and trying to break free there's a lot of like feeling of just unworthiness and and like sadness and guilt that goes with it and like feeling like how the fuck did this happen to me I really just want to say like this can happen to anyone that's the thing

and that was one of the things that Britt and I really wanted to bring to this episode is that both of us have experienced this to a very very toxic and very damaging level and this literally can happen to anyone it's not a reflection of you it's not a reflection of you being weak it's not a reflection of you not knowing your boundaries it's a reflection of dealing with somebody who doesn't work like a normal person or doesn't work like your average person the reason it's so hard to leave is because you this is this is actually a term that they use to describe these relationships you are a narcissist supply you're a narcissistic supply chain you are feeding them they need you to operate because they need you to be under their control they need you to make them feel good

they need to know that they have power so every time you go to leave they will find a way to bring you back because you are their supply what they suggest you do when you want to leave a relationship like this is not to give a reason for why you're leaving if you know that this is super super super are unhealthy don't say i'm leaving because you control me too much i'm leaving because you don't let me do what i want on the weekends if you give them a reason they're going to say i love you so much i promise you can do whatever you want on the weekend i'll never do that to you again they're going to find a reason to bring you back and to and specifically to what you've told them the problem is but what they suggest you say if you need to extract yourself is say i'm leaving

because I don't love you and it's not going to work and I want out of the relationship don't give them a reason it's just that this isn't working anymore yeah and it needs to be like such a clear and concise thing and don't don't get me wrong like that's not going to be enough they're still going to try and bring you back in but exactly as Britt said you can't give them something to negotiate with because as soon as you give them something that they've done wrong or you try and explain to them what it is that's making you so upset or making you need to leave that gives them leverage to try and manipulate you and change your mind and one of the questions that we kept getting on the Facebook group will they change like can you explain to a narcissist

why you feel the way you feel or how they're hurting you you really can't because even if you do explain it to them and they pretend like they're accepting that information or they they seem to be accepting that information they're not going to put it into action unless unless a narcissist actually identifies that they are a narcissist and seeks therapy for it they're never going to change or come to a different conclusion so you're always going to get sucked back in the only thing to do if you can do it so if you don't have children if it's not someone you're related to if it's early days in a relationship the only thing you can do is walk away and fucking block and delete and shut down your social media and do not allow them to have any access to

your life and as much as that just seems like the most severe and horrible way of ending things and I and I guarantee that there will be this period where you literally feel like you're going through withdrawal symptoms from them but that is the most effective way of being able to deal and break off this narcissistic relationship for every single day that passes one day at a time you're slowly going to be able to get over the relationship you're slowly going to break down those bonds and it's like having an addiction to anything really. Take it one day at a time and every single day that you go without speaking to them, without contacting them, without looking at their social media, pat yourself on the back because like that is one day closer to you being free

of this absolute fucking hell. Something that I think is also really important to know because this is also such a hard part of like breaking free of someone who is narcissistic is that once they can't control you anymore they may try and control the narrative around you so they may try and influence the way that your friends or your family or people in your workplace even think of who you are as a person so maybe they'll make up stories maybe they will bend the truth to make it seem like you're the one who was doing the wrong in the relationship same thing happened to me with my ex when it all came out that he had this double life he went and told everyone he knew everyone that would possibly cross paths with us because we we had a lot of circles that crossed paths he and

I he told everyone that I was like this crazy stalker and this is how he played it off because people are like you know like we used to see her car at your house like we know that something's going on and he would say things like yeah she used to just fucking turn up and stand out the front of my house like he made it out like everything every time someone would say we saw you together like calling him out on it he had this way of turning around and saying it's she's nut job like she was crazy and I was like dude we were getting married this is I was like this is insane that he was trying to poison every single person in my life and turn everyone against me because he couldn't control me anymore so obviously we've just touched on like how to get

out of a relationship if it's in the early stages but like we acknowledge that there are relationships that you can't just walk away from maybe you have children maybe it's a relative what I want to say to that is that the first step is acknowledging what you're dealing with. So if you have already recognized and you already identify that the person that you're dealing with is narcissistic or has narcissistic personality disorder, and it's been diagnosed, then you know what you're in for. And I think that that's the first step of setting personal boundaries and being able to protect yourself. So if it is someone that you can't actually move yourself completely away from and create space, then what you need to do is try and create as much mental wellness around that

person as possible set boundaries set limitations and if you do find yourself in a situation where they are gaslighting you be really aware and cognizant that that is what's happening don't get embroiled in the argument don't get tied down in it just walk away and don't give fire to it because I think that the more that you try and negotiate or have a conversation or change their mind the more you're going to get sucked back into that reality I put a little list of things together because i knew the time would come where we would have to do a list of how to move on and extract yourself i love it when you do the research for your list um it's basically the number one thing education is key information is power you might not know what you're dealing with i certainly

didn't i know laura didn't until you actually have someone laid out for you and you're looking at it physically and you're like oh my god that yes yes yes yes so educate yourself to what it is read up about these unhealthy relationships read up about the narcissistic tendencies traits the different types of narcissism because remember they don't all fall into one category totally listen to podcasts go online there's so many forums and communities I know that something that really really helped me was joining online communities of other people who had dealt with narcissistic relationships and it made me think I am not alone and I'm not an idiot which is what I really really felt at the time and it was a real safe space to kind of rebuild from there as well

so I do think that there are so many resources online that can make you feel really empowered and you come out of the other side going okay I'm not the only one who's been through this yeah see now my problem is I'm the opposite to you it took me such a long time to deal with because I didn't I didn't seek help and I didn't go on online communities and I didn't do the research and I knew I was in a fucked up relationship and I knew what had happened to me and like there is so much more that I'll never actually be able to talk about to you guys I knew was so far from being okay but I dealt with it on my own I was like I'm fine everything's fine I don't need anyone and that was the worst thing now in hindsight that's the worst thing I could

have done because it took me so much longer to to move on like I was a hot mess for a really a really long time. So I can say from the other side, like Laura is saying, go and do it because she's done it. She got, she sought help and it really helped her. I can say, go and seek help because I didn't. And I saw what that did to me. Yeah, totally. And I think like the biggest thing that I did that was of benefit to me was going and speaking to a therapist and unpacking what it was in my relationship and why I was attracted to this and really understanding what had happened a bit better and I think that that's that's like something what you just said Brit is like something that I think so many people who experience this have to have to overcome is

just how long it takes and how deep the damage goes when you're in a narcissistic relationship like it's it's so and can be so traumatic and like we talk about things from like a gaslighting lying manipulation perspective like there's people who are in these relationships and it's much more physical and the abuse is much more volatile and, and frightening. And so I think that, that, you know, the number one thing to do is go and speak to someone who's a professional. Try to build up a life outside of your relationship. So this is maybe you're reigniting or reconnecting with friends. Maybe you are trying to find a new hobby or going back to a sport or a hobby that you used to do. That might be reconnecting with your family again.

just something, something that you can do on your own for yourself with your friends, separate, completely separate and independently of him. So it's slowly, slowly taking your life back. And I really think that there's power in vulnerability and talking about what it is that you've experienced. So if you have, if you, if you have been through this and you are finding that you're isolated and you haven't been able to connect with your friends, I do think that there is power in actually talking about what you've gone through and the reason why you withdrew from them because if they are your true friends or your family they're going to be much more receptive once they understand. Now the next one on your list which is like something that I think

is really hard to work on after you've been through these relationships but it's just so critical is working on your self-esteem and working on your self-worth and knowing that like what happened to you is not your fault and knowing that the relationship is not a byproduct of anything that you did wrong and also knowing that like you couldn't have changed anything about yourself to make them treat you better like that's that's not the basis of what would have made that relationship better yeah I'm not gonna sugarcoat it it's the hardest thing to do it is so hard it's it's one thing to say build your self-esteem and get your confidence back okay yeah how the hell do I do that when I've just been trampled over and I feel like a piece of shit yeah it took that took me a

really really long time and I'm totally there now but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't really hard to do and I also think it's really important to start trying to um bring new things into your life that give you a sense of self-worth outside of what the relationship was like for me I know like it kind of sounds lame I've talked about it before like I took up salsa dancing and which I laugh at every time and it's not funny but it's funny I went to salsa dancing I used to salsa dance like four nights a week because you look like that red emoji absolutely I was tall and lanky and I'm still so bad at salsa dancing but it was just something that got me out of my own house it got me around a new group of people and it forced me to do something that

was active so I was feeling good about myself like endorphins were running and like I really enjoyed myself it got me out of such a bad slump and it got me away from just drinking or going out and partying which wasn't helpful for my mental state at that point in time so you know I think it's lame to say start a new hobby but I also think it can be a really constructive thing to do when you're in a bad space god no I start I've said it but too I enrolled in Italian classes at adult education everyone was 50 plus but I had a great old time because I needed to take my mind of it we're not one of those people that say oh start a new hobby like we don't just make it up literally go and find something that you've always wanted to do

or that you're passionate about or that you want to explore further and just go and do it I mean you have free time now like when you're not spending all every second of your day filling somebody else's hole, you can fill your own hole. That sounds very sexual, but it's not how I mean it. You can fill your own cup. You know, basically you have so much more time and so much more energy to work on yourself. And that can be seem really overwhelming when you're absolutely at rock bottom, but it is a really, really great place to start. And the last few things are just once you've decided to leave, don't rush back into dating. Don't try and fix yourself or get over it by getting onto someone else. You need to sit in, in your own pain, in your own trauma,

in your own experiences, and you need to heal yourself. There's like, I wish there was a magic cure. There's not. The worst thing you can do is go and have like a recovery relationship, a bandaid relationship. Don't get into another relationship until you know that if the relationship goes bad, you're going to be okay. That's the big thing. I think make sure that you're at a point in your life where you know that even if shit goes wrong and even if you can't control it and you end up in a bad space again that you as a person are going to be fine I know that this is going to resonate with a lot of people I know this episode there's going to be a lot of people saying oh my god like I've been through that or maybe this is what I'm going

through right now maybe I have a friend going through that what I want to really highlight here is that feelings of you're not good enough it's all your fault if only you could have done something better if only you could have been better they are all really really normal feelings they're not true but I don't want to lie to you and say that you're not going to feel it and if you feel that then you're feeling the wrong thing because you will feel it it's it's human nature to feel those things I felt them for a long time I know Laura felt them I know every one of you listening is going to think that you haven't been good enough at a certain time in a relationship for that person and that maybe if you were just a little bit better a little bit prettier a little

bit smarter a little bit funnier that maybe the relationship would have worked it's so important to me that you guys get to a place where you do know that that's not true they're going to make you feel like that people will make you feel like that in your life I want you to feel like that for about 2.2 seconds and then tell yourself how amazing you are think of all the positives in your life think of all the really good things um because absolutely if something doesn't work out if a relationship like this doesn't work out it has nothing to do with you amen amen just to wrap this whole section up like i know it's been big i know it's been heavy there's so much to cover with this because there's so many different types and there's so many ways that it can display

itself but you know we like we said we've had so many questions come in and we have put them in a bank we're going to get a clinical psychologist on to answer some of the really difficult questions that you guys have put forward about narcissism and also just about different types of personality disorders in general that we've received over the last year of doing this podcast but I feel like this was an episode that was a really long time coming and so I'm glad that we finally had this discussion and put it out there we we want to highlight that we did read it all we don't want you to think that we're scooting over things that we don't think are important because we do think there's so we could talk about this for weeks literally and like we said if you guys have any

further questions that you want us to throw at a clinical psychologist and we do get them on hit us up on our facebook group or you can hit us up on life uncut podcast on instagram and we'll add it to the list well that was a big episode laura bloody big one it was a big one but you know every now and again we have to do these ones we have to delve deep we have to talk about things we think are important but let's now talk about something a little bit more light-hearted we don't finish an episode without our second sweet our highlight and our low light of the week so you are going first and i can see on your face that you've got no idea what your second what your second sweet is i can

read you like a book i know what my sweet is oh i have so many sweets which is bad this has been a really good week sucks first dude yeah i know but my okay my suck i'm just gonna say you know as much as there's some highlights to the fact that Marley's going to daycare I hate that she's going to daycare I hate it there's no there's no part of my body right now that enjoys this idea it's a necessity so that I can get work done and whatnot but um yeah I'm not cool with it I think in two weeks and you'll love it yeah okay well talk to me in two weeks time and I'll give you a new suite but right now that's my suck my suite for the week is that we we have yesterday just launched the new range for Tony May and that has been like six months coming and so much work and

i'm like super proud of it and i don't even care if this is a plug but it's you're allowed to plug it's just our yeah our new range that we've been all working on and that i feel like has consumed my life for the last six oh my god and i saw some of the pictures from the campaign girlfriend you're wearing one of the necklaces right now i was hoping you noticed i've been like flipping it around all episode like waiting for you to notice you haven't oh no i noticed it with me whipping it around my neck so that's my sweet it's been such a big business week for for me and for tony May and like I just you know very very rarely do I have moments where I actually feel super proud I usually suffer from massive imposter syndrome and today I'm like this is a good day oh I'm

proud of you you work bloody hard and the collection's amazing have a look tonymay.com I'm joking yeah dot au is what she meant to say anyway what's your sweet sucks okay what's your that okay mine sucks pretty funny but also pretty messed up i've had this um spider web on the just hear me out laura i've had a spider web in my car window in my mirror you know the side mirror he obviously the spider's obviously living behind the mirror because the spider web comes out every morning i brush it off comes out the next morning and i'm like you know what snuggle on in there you're not doing any harm live your best life in my mirror fancy spider living in a rangy in bondi now that rent is some expensive rent that he's freeloading

he's got beach views too i was so i've been like wiping the spider web away every day with a stick or something and he comes back and i'm like fuck i'm just gonna let him like he's not doing any harm live your best life then as i was driving back from port macquarie so this i only saw this when I was on the highway on the weekend I noticed that the spider web was now inside my car inside in the front mirror bit so I'm like all right smarty pants you've made your way in so what I had to do was get some spider stuff and I killed him sorry I'm like I can't have a huntsman running on the inside of my window on the highway that just got really dark that happened okay give your sweet my sweet is like what hasn't actually happened yet but i along with laura but separately

we're going to byron bay this weekend oh yeah i forgot yeah so but both like we're both going separately but i'm sure i'll see you no so i booked a trip to byron bay and then brit booked the exact same trip on the exact same days and was like oh maybe we'll see each other and i was like well clearly we're going together now britney clearly we're gonna see each other mate you sound you're really making this old guy that said i was a stalker i was like britney why are you parked out the front of my house again because we do the podcast twice a week we can't really go anywhere or have a life because it's like three days apart it's not enough time to ever do anything so Laura was like heads up I have to take a week off because I have to go out for a

work trip to Byron Bay because you're doing a shoot and stuff up there and I was like well bingo if if we've got a week off I'm going on a week holiday too and then I was like where could i possibly go within new south wales that i would want to go and spend a week and just so happened that the only friends i have are in byron bay so i am not following you that brit is staying like a street away from me we're taking the podcast equipment up there and we're gonna do next week's we're gonna do next week's episode from byron bay i don't actually even know where you're staying you little bitch all right guys and on that note thank you for listening to another episode of life uncut we hope that you loved it we hope that you got something out of it we hope

that you feel empowered and that you have some people in this world who have been through the exact same shit that you have been through and you know the drill or the housekeeping if you haven't signed up for the facebook group or the instagram it's life uncut podcast if you're on the facebook group make sure that you actually join the group which you have to like select not just like the page because we don't do anything on the page that's that shit's just a shop window i'm gonna get into the group where the dirty action fight club it's just like it's a pretend conversion you've got to get in in deep to the group and then we never talk about it except we talk about it on every episode yeah and you know what i just want to deal with you guys please

because we love love Thank you.