Life Uncut - Figuring Out Our 30s! Uncut with Bridget Hustwaite

Episode Date: December 17, 2024

We’re all aware of the societal pressures and expectations put on us to have achieved certain things by the time we reach certain ages, but what about the questions we ask ourselves when a new decade looms? Whether you have or haven’t ticked off the traditional expectations of buying a house, getting married and starting a family, it seems as though we are all collectively asking ourselves more questions about who we are and what we want to be as we reach our 30s.  Joining the podcast today is Bridget Hustwaite. Bridget is a presenter, an author, a podcaster and a content creator. Going into 30, Bridget looked as though she had it all figured out: she was well established in her career, she was in a 5 year long relationship with aspirations to settle down, she was financially independent and had found purpose in her advocacy for endometriosis. And then shit hit the fan and the expectations of what Bridget thought her future would look like crumbled.  Bridget has a brand new book coming out called “figuring out 30” and chats with us about all of the unexpected lessons we learn when we question who we really are and what we are led to believe we ‘should’ want.  We speak about: The strange internal feelings we can get around milestones Going through a significant break up just before reaching 30  We all fear ‘starting over’. Is this the best it’s going to get?  Family dynamics and estrangement and how it shaped her understanding of herself The way people react when they find out that you aren’t in contact with your own family members vs how common it actually is Maternal desire. Figuring out the kid equation in your 30s How Bridget’s endometriosis affects fertility Can you be a feminist and support marriage?   What modern marriage means What it’s like reentering the dating world in your 30s You can find more from Bridget Hustwaite on instagram  You can pre order Bridget’s new book “Figuring Out 30” here!! Bridget previously joined the pod for an episode about endometriosis  You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! Xx    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. Now we've spoken about it on the podcast so many times around different decades of age or years. I always say that my 20s were an absolute effing shit show. They were just like the years where everything seemed to go wrong and I don't know what I was doing yeah but then I always talk about the fact that I hit my 30s as well and I did not have the life I thought I was going to have I was so single I'd been dumped on the bachelor I didn't have the white picket fence

I didn't have kids didn't know where I was going and it's like this idea that society says you've got to have your shit together when you really just don't do you feel though Brit and I know this is an intro but we'll get into that in a second do you feel like your 30s were better than your 20s or do you feel like you're like when did you peak oh man my 20s were pretty litty like I had great 20s because I was in my 20s I traveled to 50 countries I went like around the world with my sister but I was broke and it's different now because now I have more money because I've got more of a stable job but I don't have the time and freedom to go and do and live the life I wanted so I think it's like it's a catch-22 yeah it's so interesting because I think that we can

approach new decades and especially real milestone birthdays like your 20s or your 30s or whatever it looks like for you and be fearful about what it is to come. And I do think that there's something very unique about the decade of being in your 30s. It's the years where a lot of us figure out our relationships. It's where a lot of us figure out what we want in our careers or we've come into a little bit more autonomy. But getting a better understanding of what that looks like can be really frightening. We have Bridget Hussway joining us today on the podcast. And that is because Bridget has written a book and it is called Figuring Out 30, which is all about this topic. Something that we have unpacked so many times in our own lives. And I guess in some ways,

we're still figuring it out ourselves. Bridget is familiar to the podcast. We've had her on before to speak about endometriosis so long ago when we very first started. But Bridget, welcome back to the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to catch up because yeah, the last time that we did speak about endo, that was when shit was really kicking off for me, but I was just in like book press mode for how to endo, but all this kind of personal internal chaos was happening, but I couldn't really tell you about it, but now I can a couple of years later. Well, yeah. So for those that may have missed it, we will link it in our show notes, but we did do an entire episode with Bridget around endometriosis. And now we are going to

crack on to all the unexpected lessons that you've learned and all about the book but before we do you have shared previously a banging accidentally unfiltered where you vomited at your work Christmas party but do you have another one for us? I do well the one that I thought of was the most recent one that's happened and in a nutshell it was telling Troye Sivan to go wee wee and it got captured on national live tv and it was why you go wee wee oh you just go do a wee wee yeah I just said to him, you go wee-wee. It was at the Arias just recently. It's like I talked to my dog.

I know. And I just decided to be like, go toily toy, like Troye Sivan. The cameras weren't meant to be rolling and they were. And then I watched the Arias back on, you know, on Stan and that whole thing is in conversation. He needed to go to the toilet. He'd just won an ARIA and so we had him backstage and, you know, we wanted to make it quick for him because he was clearly needing to pay.

Yeah, and it was actually a bit of an extensive chat and so we try to wrap it up and then I'm staring at the camera thinking that it goes off because you know like when you're on tv and you stare at it for a few seconds and everyone's just walking around as if like we have just gone off air and I just turned to him and go you go wee wee and he's like yeah I go wee wee and walked off friggin made it to the broadcast I'm more I'm more interested whether you said it satirically like were you trying was it meant to be a joke or is it just something that you would say in a normal conversation yeah normal conversation it was like so nurturing of me but I did not intend that to make the broadcast always my fear like working

in radio or tv or whatever when you have an aspect of being live it's always my fear that somehow it's gonna like when you're talking in between breaks or whatever that you're gonna go to air like you need to really monitor yourself see the mum vibes in me is just like there's nothing wrong with saying wee wee I'd be like do you want me to wipe your bum do you need do you need to wipe your bum she says that to me all the time exactly but it was just like such a professional considered music chat going straight to that and yeah I don't know don't trust anyone don't trust any producers don't trust Cage no it'll be fine but like you just never know when the cameras are still on still rolling. I mean we got the press release for your book that kind of

rolled across our desk and Keisha literally devoured the book in a weekend and was like you need to speak to Bridget about this and you know I kind of think about my like I said I think about my 30s and I think about how they've been such pivotal years for me like so much change has happened but I also think they've been some of the best years of my life so far what was it about figuring out 30 or turning 30 that made you want to write a book about it well approaching 30 I thought I had uh everything kind of down pat so on paper it looked really good that I was hosting my own radio show I was an author well yeah becoming an author no I was an author approaching 30 so much yeah already an author approaching 30 five-year relationship so felt

like that was pretty concrete I guess which is laughable now yeah and I'm sure we'll get into that but so these things on paper you know financially independent all looked really good but there was still just a very lingering sense of unease about approaching 30 it kind of built up over the months but as I was getting nearer and nearer and then there was just this one night middle of the night and it ended up being four days before I got dumped four days before that even happened I was up at like 1am and just put a notes entry in my phone being like I don't know what it is but like I'm freaking out about turning 30 like why I have all of these things I mean I'm not married and I don't have kids and I haven't owned like my own pet yet I'm not sure if those

of the things that are freaking me out or I'm just getting this weird sense of unease and I don't know if that was a weird anticipation of I guess what was to come but it's a really interesting thing because I don't think I was thinking about it at all until just yeah those very close moments leading up to actually turning 30 and you know being in lockdown was probably an interesting situation with it as well because I was kind of confined to this apartment that I was living in with my partner at the time and I was feeling restless in that sense but then I kind of was looking around me and I guess more so from my friends back home in Ballarat being in like a regional area there's people settling down and some of my ex's friends were getting married and

stuff and I just didn't feel like a grown-up the kind of grown-up that I thought I needed to be come 30 there was definitely a gap between where I was at and where I thought I should be and so that kind of catapulted everything. I mean, the breakup was six days before How to Endo came out and it was just freaking chaos. The year of 30 was just such a huge transformative year for relationships, fertility, even just looking back at family stuff and being like, why am I the way that I am? It was a really big personal debrief. And also just thinking about why are women in particular freaking out about this and why do we have the pressures with aging and, you know, the biological clock and this crazy sense of urgency and can we please talk about it more

I definitely think that 30 as an age it's kind of like the first time that you become really conscious of age like I don't I mean my 20s kind of just like sailed by I never had a point in my 20s where I was like oh I need to think about these things but it was the year I also turned 30 that I was like fuck my life is not where I thought it was going to be it's because we we as a society put that expectation on and the fact that we just make 30 the benchmark because it is a new decade where you are supposed to have a little bit more responsibility because everyone gives you a bit of leniency in your 20s to be like a bit of a wanker not great with your money whatever it is you you get a hall pass but in your 30s you don't get as much grace I don't

think and also I think it comes from I'd love to know what you think as well but 30 is crucial for women because we are told statistically and scientifically biologically that our clock our biological clock is slowing down so that's just not a number that we have pulled you know from anywhere society pulls numbers out of their butthole when it's like you should own a house by 30 but it's a little bit different when it comes to fertility because we know there is a clock do you reckon you have any more insight now since you've done this deep dive on yourself on for you specifically do you think that all of this unease and anxiety that you felt that night do you think that came more from your own internal pressures or from society's pressures

or do you think maybe you felt a little bit unsettled because you knew maybe something was about to change a few days later as you said you got broken up with yeah kind of all the above I think you know when I look back at my 20s I was 21 when I started to be really career focused and really striving to be a music presenter and I got my first time my first full-time gig in that field at the age of 27. So the thought of kids was just never in question, nor was marriage. I never felt any direct pressure from my parents or anything. They've been amazing in that regard. Like I've never once felt an ounce of pressure from them that I need to marry someone or settle down or have kids for that matter. So I think there was, I guess that internal comparison, I think again,

with lockdowns, because we, you know, I was in Melbourne, so I was very confined. And once you kind of come out of the lockdowns too or even when you're in the midst of it there was a really interesting thing that I read called the pandemic skip so it's kind of like you know you don't feel like a lot of my friends turn 30 in lockdown and you don't feel like you're that age because you haven't been able to go out and experience you know those last few years or months leading into your 30s but now you're kind of at that age where you initially thought this is when I was going to have kids I mean my mum had four kids under the age of four when she was 32 and I'm 33 and I just could not relate to that at all like that terrifies me when I think about home ownership as well I

mean obviously cost of living is cooked so that was never a direct pressure but I think it's like a historical societal pressure because what we've seen previous generations do and I think being like millennial women we've kind of been not the I don't want to say we're the first but we're a generation where we haven't been literally ticking off tick tick tick tick because our parents you know were going through that time where they could begin women were beginning to be in the workplace but now we are very much in it I think it's fascinating to me though because this is such a universal feeling that so many women in their 30s have like but the thing is so many of us feel like this collectively but so many of us are not in you know stable relationships

or the relationship that we thought we would be in by this time a lot of us don't have the jobs or the careers that we thought we would have and I'm not sure if there is even though a lot more people are talking about it I don't know if we find collective comfort in this because I still think we compare ourselves every day on Ask Uncut we get questions from people who are all different ages who say like my life is just not where I expected it to be for you going through a breakup a really significant one just before 30. How did you grapple with that change of identity from going from, okay, this is what I thought life was going to be. And now I'm here and I have to rebuild. Yeah. It's an interesting one. Cause yeah, again, you realize that space of where I

was, where I thought I would be. And I hadn't fully yet embraced, I guess, the idea that those traditional markers of success didn't necessarily apply to me in the way that I expected. I just didn't know how to sit with that and I think with a breakup as well I mean that was the first snowball and it was a very significant one at that because you know despite it was funny despite having such a personality out there being on Triple J and stuff I felt like my identity had really collapsed when that breakup happened and then going straight into book press mode too I not that I didn't have a chance to process it I kind of had a real gate I had no choice but to kind of you know face it front on and sign up for therapy and you know I really made a conscious

effort to make sure I was processing things in real time but I also didn't want it to taint the success of my book and everything did you see it coming the breakup look it should have happened four months before it happens so we had a conversation four months beforehand where I actually came to him and said that I was feeling unhappy I was actually looking at getting my own rental and I think that was a pretty I don't want to say a red flag because it's a pretty big red flag for a relationship yeah I think it's a red flag but like yeah it really is when especially when you're already living together so don't want to say that you know there are some relationships out there where they don't live together for a really long time but for us to go from living

together to me now thinking about just having my own space again and I was really yearning a sense of independence and again lockdown probably amplified that but I also was thinking but I was suppressing it so much because I was approaching 30 that I was like no this is the one this is the relationship this is the serious relationship after my last youthful reckless relationship and we're approaching five years I think what we really struggle with at this point in our lives as we enter our 30s and throughout our 30s even our 40s for women is the fear of starting over. You know, we hear so much about FOMO and being left behind and there's a very unique tension between those, but it's something about the fear of starting over that really

terrifies women. And for good reason. I mean, if you look at pop culture, what we grew up watching and how 30 was embodied, Bridget Jones, Rachel Green, calculating the timeline in Friends. That's Friends, Laura. Laura doesn't watch Friends, so I'll just break that down. Oh, okay. That's a good episode to start on. To be fair, I only started watching it in the last like 18 months blasphemy both of you I think as well this idea of starting again it is such a recurrent question that we get through our ask uncuts from our listeners the fear of starting again also comes from this fear of well what if I don't get something that's better than this like what if this is as good as I either a deserve or b I can get especially when you find people

who have found themselves in relationships that maybe aren't fulfilling but they're a nice person they're not in a toxic relationship they're just dating essentially someone that they've maybe outgrown I think also tied into it as another layer is the sunk cost fallacy of well I'm 30 and I've already I've already contributed five six seven years of my life to this person like I don't want to quote unquote waste that time like what a waste that would be to start again now so I think it's like aspects of all three what did starting again look like for you well I mean so we were three weeks into a new rental lease we just moved into a new townhouse so we were on like a month to month kind of thing but we signed on this new 12 month lease kept

checking in with him throughout that whole process being like you sure you want to do this things were kind of tense I guess stress with that move also in the lead up to the book it's funny looking back you know because we were literally sleeping back to back in bed there was no affection so much distance and I just I guess was also so caught up in my book stuff that I didn't kind of clock it at the time so do you know Dolly Alderton has used a really great kind of analogy of sorts about this she she said in her life lessons like if you had a big red button in front of you and if you could press it and you know you get through a breakup and all the practical things were no fuss like it was fine don't even think about those things they would be taken care

of if you could press a button that allows you to do it would you break up with this person and if you're going if you're saying yes then it's like well you've got to break up with them because it's the practical aspect and yes that whole starting over for me it was you know having to find a new apartment to live in because there was like no way I was going to stay in this freaking townhouse that we just broke up in you know those logistical things it's also the unraveling of routines of relationships that you have with their family and friends the dividing of belongings I mean fortunately in our case at least like it could have been way more stressful in the sense that we didn't have a pet we didn't have kids we didn't have a mortgage we didn't have

joint bank accounts so in comparison to other situations like you know it wasn't all bad but it was still fucking stressful but we got there it just took time but it was not fun. Bridget you wrote in your book the older you get the higher the stakes are can you talk a little bit about what you mean by that in terms of relationships specifically yeah well I think it goes back to that whole fear of starting over and when you are in your 30s and even if you're in your 40s as well the the older you get and you know when I think back to my first breakup right so I just had to pack my toothbrush and get going that was it you know there really wasn't much to it a couple of drunken uh follow-up hookups in the months you know that came and that was stupid but there was

no big uh you know it wasn't a big breakup this was a big breakup because there was five years of emotional investment I think the emotional investment side of things is very underestimated at this period in our lives because as you guys said before when you're kind of thinking about I've put so many years into this relationship and I don't want it to be a waste or I've put all of this in because I thought he was the one and I definitely put my ex on that pedestal of being the one you know and he wasn't but I would I think I was so also just so scared of failure you know and that the relationship wouldn't work out and it should be working out at that age so I think that's a big part of it the the higher the stakes again it kind of goes back to

if you in the relationship and you're not sure but you're still cruising along and you are you know you get to that point where you might have kids and you have more of these practical things and it just makes the whole separation a lot more difficult for you if that makes sense yeah and I love this but I almost think it has a time limit to it because it's like the older you get the higher the stakes are I would say that for a woman the highest stakes are kind of in your 30s or in your 40s and for a lot of people who want children once you've gone past that window of fertility that window of yes do I want kids is this the person and a lot of relationship decisions in these years for a lot of people and I don't want to speak for everyone because there's loads

of people who don't want to have kids but they're driven by this idea of like okay I can't waste time the thing is is once you get to a certain age you might be in your 50s or your 60s and I have friends who are dating now in that age group and they're like I have no time for bullshit because there's nothing that keeps me wanting more with this person if they're not amazing because what am I going to do spend 20 years with some fucking loser until I'm 70 but they're not going to they're not going to like almost progress it as quickly as they might have had they been in a window when kids was part of this equation yeah and I think a lot of people and it's to no fault of their own because again it speaks to this wider societal pressure and

the biological aspect sometimes we get so caught up in trying to attain this thing and again it's the idea of it as well that we will never kind of stop to think or question even if the person that if this is the person that we want those things with it's almost like a you'll do like let's just get it done I mean and I'm not saying that's the case for a lot of people but I know I've definitely been guilty of having that kind of mindset especially when I was 29 because I was starting to think about children then I was actually thinking I was doing my own timeline so I was like oh you know maybe 31 I'll take maternity leave from the ABC and I'll stop doing good nights for that year and that's when we'll have a kid but I wasn't actually in an estate or ready

to have kids but I was just doing the math there because I felt that deadline and I know I like I'm the one who made it just about children in that kind of questioning but I do also think it it pertains to other aspects like it could be about getting married or and having you know because when all your friends and everyone around you seem to be in happy relationships they're getting married or they're moving in with their partners all of these things kind of shine a spotlight on yourself and you go well why don't I have that or who is that person that I'm going to do those things with even career as well like even thinking about career being scared to you know quit or change industries at that age it's all terrifying yeah and it does come back to that idea of what

you said Britt like this idea of how much time you've put into something is is how much harder it is to walk away from it entirely you speak about an interesting relationship dynamic that you have and it's something that a lot of people have to navigate is kind of as we get older figuring out what does that relationship look like with our parents or also with our siblings when we no longer have like a juvenile relationship with them because we've got to be friends with them but we move into adults who can choose the relationships we have you know in my life like Matt doesn't have a relationship with his dad he made an active decision in his 30s that he doesn't speak to his dad anymore and that's the relationship they have but something a lot of people might not

know about you is you have a twin. Yeah and it surprises people because it's like not only a sibling but it's a twin. Yeah you're like the same person. We're roommates you know and I think because it kind of stems back to that ideal assumption that you know twins are the closest bond of all and by no means am I disputing that because I've seen that for pretty much all the twins that I do know except for my situation my dad's also a twin he's got a twin sister but also no contact so estrangement is a real honestly the the topic of family dynamics and estrangement I think was the biggest one for me you know once I got over the real bumpy bits of heartbreak I really was wanting to kind of I just had this crazy curiosity it's like you know when you're a

toddler and like you'll have this Laura like when you girls are like but why but why but why and they're constantly asking but why for me when I was 30 I was just like why am I like this like why do I you know regulate my emotions like this or why do I stress like this and how has my both my parents had quite abusive upbringings my dad had a very abusive upbringing his dad took his own life so I never met his dad that was before I was born but it was kind of as a result of this just awful upbringing that he was responsible for so there's just been a kind of a legacy of trauma I suppose that is kind of trinkled through my family web and coming to understand how that has influenced me as a person but also my familial relationships and why estrangement is just so

big in my family like estrangement is my normal so I have a twin sister and you know she she decided to essentially cut me off would have been nine years ago but then we briefly had contact the year that we were 30 and it was looking promising that we were able to like you know get on that path of mending the relationship but then she kind of cut me off again and it was a very you know I'm sure she has her reasons but it was a very devastating thing for me like to have this breakup and then a few months later have this ghosting essentially from twin sister and it's a very interesting thing to talk about right because you want to be and to write about because I've wanted to be very conscious of how I'm articulating it and to talk about my feelings

in my experience to kind of look at this bigger picture as to what it means for estrangement of family dynamic in a broader sense without exposing relatives or making them feel like you don't want to air dirty laundry and it's half a story you know you can you can tell your side of a story and your side as to why a relationship dynamic doesn't exist anymore but that only accounts for that version of it and not the reasons why someone might have made the decisions they've made. It's something that's prevalent. And I think a lot of people as we get older have to decide whether or not they want to keep family members as part of their life. It could also be because, you know, you might have a challenging relationship with a parent and then you decide,

well, do I want this person to actually be a grandparent figure for my children? There's so many parts of like relationship dynamics that have to be figured out as you're older. And I think sometimes like when you're growing up, you kind of just get dealt the cards that you get dealt. But then when you're an adult, you get to choose the people that you surround yourself with and family looks different for different people. Yeah. And especially in the case of thinking about whether or not I want to start my own family, for me, I was like, I need to just figure out the family that I've already got before I even think about starting a new one. I just had this crazy curiosity about it. And it's also kind of, you know, a really big part of growing up

with this is coming to that place where you're able to practice empathy for the other person, for the other relative because like you said there's there's always gonna be two sides and like I have to respect you know I have to respect that from my siblings and particularly my twin sister it's having empathy for that but also I suppose just not normalizing it but I just would love to have more conversations that this is actually a really common thing not only is it a very common thing for people to experience especially in adulthood but it's not a decision that's ever made lightly for anyone involved you know we don't just do it for shits and giggles and I mean you just have to look at the queer community as a prime example of you know for so many of them

not being accepted by their family and they want nothing more than to be accepted by their family but to protect their well-being their boundaries and for them to feel accepted you know sometimes they have to just cut off those ties it's never a decision that is easy but for many people it's just out of necessity. And that's just what it is. So to be clear, you don't just have estrangement just from you and your sister, all the three other siblings that you have, they don't talk to your parents at all. You're the only one of four siblings that have a regular contact with your parents. Yeah. So my oldest sister, I think she is in contact with them every now and then, but I'm like the only child who will go back, you know, to stay at their house. I have Christmas

with them every year yeah it's the constant relationship so and I don't and honestly I don't even know if my siblings talk to each other like I just don't know do you understand why I understand I mean not fully my older brother and sister I understand from a broad sense of you know when we think about our upbringing and you know I mentioned this in the book and it prompted a difficult conversation with my dad so due to his abusive upbringing and how I guess that kind of trinkled through to the way that he was a father he really struggled with regulating his emotions and we just remember him as really angry and scary and I think it just got to the point like I remember you know my twin sister never never really got along with him and never

wanted a relationship with him and I think for my older my older sister moved out of home when she was 17 to go do journalism cadetship and my brother I had a conversation with them about nine years ago about how I guess it had made him feel and we've never like the last time we were all together was my 21st birthday party you know and I'm 33 so I don't know like I haven't sat down with them to be like all right let's you know hash this out I connected I reconnected with my cousin who's in New Zealand and is the daughter of my dad's twin sister who I haven't seen for gosh nearly 20 years I actually connected with her the year I turned 30 because yeah me and dad had a bit of a blow up and we had a zoom for like two hours and she told me about her upbringing because of

how her mum was you know in an abusive upbringing and how that trinkled to her parenting and it's a really big chapter in the book and it's very hard to kind of tell it in a nutshell but yeah I don't know if that opportunity will come about or if there's even a desire to like sit down with the siblings but again it just has even though I don't know their full perspective you still and I may never will but you still kind of have to have that kind of empathy and acceptance and kind of just focus on like how it's affected me and what I how I want to be better out of it from my end if that makes sense it's such an interesting conversation to talk about and we we've spoken to Sam Fisher on this podcast before for anyone who wants to go back and listen to that we had a really

quite I mean it was quite a intimate conversation around how he chose to no longer have a relationship with his dad and I think unless you come from a family where estrangement is a thing it's really hard to understand how you could ever get to a point where you choose not to have a relationship with either a parental figure or a brother or a sister and I think sometimes people think well there must have been really bad abuse like there must have been like the abuse must be so bad that it's unforgivable and in some cases that's absolutely the case but in other cases it's a subtle yet consistent disregard for your boundaries or your respect and it's and I think as an adult you get to a point where you go do you know what I no longer want to be disappointed

by my parents I no longer want to be disappointed or devalued and so there's a choice that's made because you're like it's very considered it's very hard but you go I will be happier if I stop putting my happiness in you actually showing up to this relationship in a way that's healthy for me and unfortunately it is a choice that some people have to make and I know even for us like we had these really big conversations Matt and I around when we had kids or when we got married because Matt's dad's never been a part of that. And the kids have not met him. And, and I was like, oh, do you, do you think like, you know, the kids, maybe he should meet the children. And, and Matt was kind of like, I'm not doing that for me and I'm not doing that for them. So I'd be doing it

for you. And that's a weird thing. So yeah, it's a big conversation that absolutely permeates some families. And I think what makes it even harder is when you, is the reaction from, from external people, you know, because they can't understand it. Yeah. Because we always view family as the soul centerpiece of our life and it's certainly true to an extent but it doesn't have to be the soul fulfillment much like just having you know the one in a romantic sense but that's probably been the hardest thing for me is the reactions and because like for me it's my normal like I've accepted it so I don't really know any different for other people who hear like you have a twin and wow what's that like what do you mean you don't talk to your twin it's just like I mean

I don't know and I think that's why people really don't like talking about it or they feel a lot of shame like it's their fault and that they've failed in some aspect when it is more common than what we think and yeah I really hope that chapter in particular helps people you know open that dialogue or just feel a little bit more seen and validated I mean for me at least writing it just again prompted some difficult conversation with my dad because he and mum had to sign off on it like you know they have to sign off on what you're saying and that wasn't easy but I was and but dad was really good and he was like you know if this is important for you and like your growth and you know for your book and like I'm happy for you and I support it and you know this is great

and but it wasn't easy and I felt sick that they had to read it and I had to be very careful being like again it's not an attack or exposing you or saying it's not a right or wrong again it's just coming back to how I've felt and coming back to me understanding why I am the way I am and what I want to do with that kind of knowledge moving forward in my 30s. Do you feel like the relationship you have had with your family and with your brothers and sisters, has that had any impact on whether or not you think you want to go down the track of having your own family? Yeah, absolutely. This whole dynamic has been probably a big influence as to why I don't have a particularly strong maternal desire at this point because I do think about like you know

they're not going to have contact with any aunts and uncles on my end if I was to have children with my current partner Oscar you know he's really close with his sisters and his brother and his mum so you know there's that side of the family which is fabulous but oh it's been a huge part of it you know just thinking about what I what kind of environment I suppose I would want to bring a child into and when I look back even growing up me and my twin used to say to each other like because dad was you know in conflict with his siblings and mum cut off her brother and mum cut off her brother her mum as well I remember me and my twin saying to each other like oh we're not going to be like that like we will you know talk to each other and we will have a

relationship in adulthood and the exact same thing has happened you know yeah it's been a big factor as to why I don't have a particularly strong maternal desire at the moment which in some ways is annoying but then it's not because it's like I can't force it and I know I was talking to some girlfriends on the weekend who were like so freaking ready to be kid to have kids and they're just really really eager and I if I don't have that energy I'm not ready like I'm still leaning in the no section and I don't want to have one just for the sake of having one but then it's also when you think about when you're older and with my endometriosis come that point where I do try to conceive what's that going to look like is it going to be easy and will future Bridget

look back on past Bridget and be like you idiot like you should have but you can't live with that kind of mindset or mentality because this is how I feel in the moment at the time and nothing's going to change that and I can't regret that yeah like yeah it's so true like the decisions that you make for yourself whether or not like there's no way no one has a crystal ball no one knows but I think when you make like decisions that have a lot of thought and have a lot of consideration put into them as it seems that you are doing I don't think you're going to wake up when you're 40 or 50 or 60 and be like wow I regret that decision because it's an accumulative decision that has been made many times I disagree I think you can 100% regret decisions down the track you

can't change them, but I think you can be like, well, maybe I shouldn't have made that decision. Yeah. But I mean, maybe if it's like a one-off thing, but I think when you consciously setting your life up in a certain way, what I mean is people who make a conscious decision to not have children, there's already enough fear mongering around. You're going to regret that decision. I don't know anyone who made a conscious decision to not have children who has gone on to regret it in their fifties and sixties. The only people who I know have experienced that are people who really wanted to have children but tried fertility treatments too late that's a different conversation it's not around like consciously choosing not to have kids but I mean I guess everyone is different

but I think people live with that fear enough I don't think that that fear needs to be driven home that like you might regret it people are aware that's what the whole conversation is I disagree and I disagree just because I'm in it I disagree because I don't know if I want kids or not and I constantly bounce between if I'm going to regret not having them or if I'm going to regret having them like my seesaw is teetering constantly either way I will feel regret because I'm not convinced of which way I want to go so I know that I'm going to have that feeling I'm hoping that changes very soon yeah I hope you get to a point where it's like you can just be a bit kinder to yourself and honor what you're feeling in that moment and not blame yourself I think

we're so easy and quick to blame ourselves in those situations and I think in terms of motherhood as well there's a UK writer called Ruby Warrington who wrote a fabulous book called Women Without kids she talks a lot about the mummy binary and how it's so black and white across society that if you're not sure about having kids or it's a no that must mean you're like selfish or indecisive and just not mature or whatever but it really is a spectrum where it's it's not a clear yes or no and we're all at different points of the spectrum like I'm bouncing up and down Brit's bouncing up and down and the last thing we need to do is like beat ourselves up about it uh it's so fucking annoying your endometriosis so just fill everyone in how does that affect your fertility so if we're

going to go like a little bit down the scientific biological route there's like a structural component so if you've got endometriosis just popping off down there and it's like a physical barrier or physically impairing the environment in which the you know the eggs trying to like fertilize and do all that kind of stuff so there's that kind of aspect the like inflammatory nature of those lesions i suppose can function impair the function of both the egg and the sperm and then prevent that you know correct environment for it to kind of you know develop and and have that implantation kind of stuff the structural issues again because if you if you might have endo like on your fallopian tubes or whatever and there's also the third one which i love

mentioning is like uh painful sex is like a very common symptom of endo so if you're going to have painful sex you're like less likely to do it so that's i guess another way you're like abstinence means i can't get pregnant yeah essentially but um up to 50 of people with endo will experience infertility and it's just really annoying because it's like i'm not ready now but what happens like i i went and got my you know that the amh test and stuff and it was all looking fine but you just don't know until you go and try to conceive and anything can happen I may be able to conceive naturally I can't have a feeling you know when you just have a feeling that that's not going to happen or like you know your body like I just have a feeling it's not going to be easy for

me yeah but that's kind of where it's at and you know I want to freeze my eggs probably in a year's time so when I'm you know down the pointy end of 34 heading into 35 but you know another spanner for me is that like I live in Perth right now I moved over here for my partner's work so I don't have any immediate network here I wouldn't want to have a child here I don't know how long we're here for depending on his his work so that's another conversation it's like where am I going to freeze my eggs I'm going to freeze them in Melbourne am I going to freeze them in Perth how do you ship them across the Nullar War like yeah it's yeah it's a really it's a bit of a head fuck with the fertility front and yeah endo is just an added layer to it with how it can affect it even

happening in the first place you asked a really interesting question in your book which I find fascinating you said can a woman who's fought for equality and respect against sexism and misogyny become a bride or does that make them a walking contradiction this was such a fun chapter so this is all about marriage yeah because I'm getting married in yeah this year mid next year sorry and I feel the same I feel like you know the podcast we are fighting for women's rights constantly we're always talking about feminism yeah but I can't wait to get married at the same time this was a very interesting thing and a very fun thing for me to explore the marriage chapter so not only whether or not I want to get married but taking it a step further and kind of leaning

into that real curiosity that I've had in my 30s of being like why do I want to get married and how did this start and what's in it for me so I dived into a real rabbit hole of exploring the origins of the institution and seeing how it has played across cultures over time, how it has evolved. And I think that's a real privilege to even sit and ponder whether or not I want to get married because in areas of the world people are still being forced under the age of 18.

There's literally just news coming out now of Columbia that they've been able to pass this law that makes it illegal to be married under 18 because one in four Colombian women and girls were being married under the age of 18. it's been like 17 years of campaigning so like child brides non-consensual arranged marriages that kind of thing so very lucky that we can even ponder whether or not we want to and that our lives don't literally depend on it but yeah I was just really curious to to kind of step into that discussion of you know I consider myself feminist and I think there's with feminism there's agency

and choice but with the institution like marriage where does that come into play so I spoke to a lot of well-known feminists in australia for their take and it was just so interesting because they're a feminist who completely oppose it and want to abolish the institution and then they're feminists who uh who are married and you know who say yes there is capacity to redefine this framework and push it in that direction where it works for you and that it's about it's a personal choice and that it's a personal you know reflection of your relationship and what your marriage means to you yeah and added complexity is with marriage equality and I remember reading a book from a lesbian feminist who you would think if anything that she would be the one who'd be like burn it

down like you know but she wanted nothing more than to be married and is married I think that the conversation of abolishing marriage for me is I can't help but liken it to the gun laws in America right like we are so far in you're not going to be able to just abolish marriage right so you have to move it forward and that's what we're seeing with you know in Colombia with these legal reforms and stuff move it forward in a direction that is going to benefit everyone it's going to be equal and redefine it like that's how all social and legal frameworks evolve over time but it is like it's a really tricky thing to navigate because I've definitely had that kind of you know it's there's nothing worse than someone calling you like a fake feminist or that like

you know you're not actually what you claim to be when it's like I am but I also have a particular view about this and I do see the capacity for positive change and I love people getting married and that I don't think that makes me less any less of a feminist and so it was really interesting to speak to feminists across the board on the topic but it was very respectful and yeah I think it just will always come down to a differing opinion. I mean it's an interesting debate isn't it but I think it's we're in a sad place when we have to defend ourselves for being feminist if you have made the choice to get married and how that somehow is a betrayal and I and I say this because I know that there is this real push at the moment to be like burn it to the ground but I think it's

probably more important to acknowledge the privilege the privilege that we have to be able to choose what marriage looks like to us where we live and how we live that is a privilege that is not bestowed on all women in all places but certainly here in Australia if you are able to have agency and choice you have the privilege to choose what does your relationship look like and what does marriage mean to you and not everyone can make that choice and I think you know I look at my marriage specifically and I go it is an incredible place of equality but not everybody has that option and not everyone has that choice once they enter into a marriage and so I think as much as there is the conversation around feminism, there's a huge conversation around

privilege that is linked into it as well. Yeah. And I think that's why it's just so important for me. Like what I would, like for me, it's not about judging people who get married or people who strictly oppose it, but I would love everyone to just read into the origins just to have the understanding. And then you make the decision because again, it's that kind of informed consent of like you knowing what you're signing up for and what it has historically stood for. And marriage is very complex because it has been so different across time, across many cultures. I mean, back in the 19th century, I think it was, Chinese women could marry dead bodies

and they would prefer to marry dead bodies so they didn't have to deal with an actual man, you know? The thing is, though, it's been completely redefined. And when I get married, that does not make me not a feminist anymore. And it makes me angry that there are people out there that are putting such labels on people and you could do so much advocacy and work for however long and then you get married and it's like fuck you you're not a feminist I do not believe in that I do not believe we have to stick to this stringent set of rules that define who and what we are I think it's important to

remember that everything to this day operates under a patriarchy so in the in the sense of marriage I don't think yet abolishing it because everything operates under patriarchy so like you're damned if you do damned if you don't in a in a way but I think it is just yeah coming back to and we've again seen it with marriage equality that it continues to evolve at a rapid rate and means something different for everyone and I think regardless of whether you're married single de facto poly as long as the end of the day you can say that you feel happy fulfilled secure safe whatever your relationship status we don't need to be tearing each other down yeah for that which Which is also why I think it's such a fascinating conversation

around how it links back into privilege. You know, we spoke to Elizabeth Gilbert who wrote Eat, Pray, Love. Yes, and Committed. Yes, and Committed. She's fantastic. It was honestly one of my favourite interviews this year and she spoke about the statistics of dissatisfaction and unhappiness in married women and how married men are the most

happy version and the most, like, fulfilled. They live longer but married women have shorter lifespans. they're the most unhappy and the most unfulfilled. And that just shows that patriarchal dynamic and why one person is bearing the weight. I mean, we all know the mental load and everything else is so much greater for women, but it is a very new time that we are living in where women are able to find partners who may be progressive enough to not be total dickheads. And then they can define what that relationship looks like for them, but not everyone has the opportunity to do that yeah and her book yeah Committed was such a great read for for my own one because yeah to kind

of pick up from where Eat Pray Love left off and you know her and the Bali guy like I lost my shit and I was like oh my god the Bali guy like they both had previously been divorced and they didn't want to get married again but it kind of came out of necessity for that immigration law for them to live in America so really great really great read and I think yeah again just coming back to like if you choose to get married as long as you're doing it for the reasons that will benefit you and I mean even in our 30s I've seen a number of people get married because they feel like they have to or they feel like it's going to solve their relationship problems and be a really be a band-aid but it doesn't actually change anything so it's not really about for

me at least the ceremony or marriage it's for all the days that follow like when we're talking about relationships you know a marriage is not going to suddenly fix everything and I think just yeah we need to be mindful of that particularly in this period of our lives well I think that sometimes we can look at it as a token of security you know that that my relationship is more secure because I'm married but the reality is I mean I'm a product of multiple divorces my parents both got divorced dad three times mom twice like a marriage is only as good as the paper it's written on if you're not making the commitment in your actual actions in that relationship you know like it offers no more security than a de facto relationship or anything else yeah and and that was an

interesting kind of comparison to be I guess some of the the rights that you may be granted just because you're married in terms of you know the life admin stuff like for you know the central link is an example for differing like payments or benefits how that can differ to de facto and how we do kind of see de facto as inferior and also like quickly just on divorce as well you know that's not a failing like I had um a friend who got divorced at 28 and at the same time she was getting divorced everyone around us was getting engaged and she went to her high school reunion and was like she wore the ring even though she was divorced but was so embarrassed to tell people and that's another thing I think is really important to highlight in this period of

our lives that if you do find yourself getting divorced it's nothing to be ashamed of and you know you haven't failed like it's I have a friend getting divorced now for the second time love that Yeah. And, and, and she didn't want to, she's like, Oh, how do I start dating again? Saying like, Hey, I'm twice divorced already. And I'm like, who cares? You also don't have to tell them straight away. Like you don't have to tell them until you're like in a committed relationship, you know, like even then some people may rush to get married and then find themselves in relationships where they're like, fuck, this is not what I thought it was going to be better to have divorces under your belt and be in a happy and sustained

relationship than be in something purely because you've committed to it and spend the next 10 years of your life fucking miserable like that what a horrible life to live yeah Bridget coming from being in this relationship going through a breakup and then having to navigate dating in your 30s which you know can leave you feeling like like either and I don't want to say desperate but like I do think like when I was dating in my 30s at the start like fuck I went on The Bachelor because I was like oh my god must meet a man like it worked out okay but you know what was that like what was the period of getting back into dating when you kind of felt like you had the plan figured out like for you? It was utterly confronting because when I entered my previous relationship, Tinder

was kind of just breaking through. So we didn't have this dominant digital dating landscape. The culture has entirely shifted since I was last single. So it was really confronting in that sense of being like, oh, it's like, you know, you can't really, and again, being in lockdown, you can't just go meet someone out. It's a very intentional thing to download an app to create and curate a profile and to swipe and to initiate conversations in that manner it was very unnatural for me there was also and I'm mindful of how I say it but like you guys will be able to relate when when you have a somewhat visibility to your name so when I went into my last relationship I wasn't on triple j or anything I was nobody um but having like a radio national radio show and

it's you know a small profile but somewhat still visible especially in a dating landscape in like Melbourne or something I was really self-conscious I was really self-conscious and I hate saying it because I don't want anyone to feel self-conscious about it but I did I hated seeing Bridget 30 as my profile I really didn't feel comfortable with it I took my time with it and I was mindful of what I wanted and I think this is the important thing to be mindful and aware and actually have that moment to think what do I want to get out of this I wasn't looking for a new relationship for me actually it was just baby steps and little personal development so like just to initiate a conversation with a guy to reply to their story on Instagram and have a conversation with like

multiple fire flames the hot eye emoji but those things are really big and scary for me at 30 and I just had to take it you know one step at a time and I ended up meeting my current partner on on an app about a year after this breakup I mean he was my only dating app date and my only I guess only blind date in the sense that I didn't know him before I met him on the date and thank god it went well because I was kind of getting not defeat well I guess I was getting a bit defeated like it's rough out there it is rough out there and to add on that extra kind of insecurity that I wish we didn't have but we do because again how 30 has been portrayed especially single and 30 Bridget Jones has not been painted in a positive light really so it was it was hard but I got through

it and I think more so it's just kind of coming to that understanding now that single time that I had was so amazing in that no matter what happens and if a relationship doesn't work out like I know I'll be fine and I know that I'm focusing on the right things you know getting fulfillment from friendships and work and just just having like an even spread and not putting my heart and soul and everything riding on a romantic relationship but yeah it was very sobering and confronting to enter that dating world especially after heartbreak when you've been dumped because that really confirms as awful as it is but in a way it kind of confirms you've been rejected by the person who knows you better than anyone and then it kind of confirms any ounce

of negative self-talk that you have about yourself totally and you try not to let it happen but it does yeah and your partner is five years younger than you yeah I could I have zero issues because in the last 10 years I've only dated down my my partner now is significantly younger than me my ex was seven or eight years younger than me have you faced like I hate to say backlash but there are definitely stereotypes about women that do date younger men did you experience that or did you feel a bit wary entering into a relationship that was someone that was you know still in their mid-20s yeah I was very wary because Lish like when we were talking on he I didn't know at the time it was his 26th birthday that morning of his 26th birthday I was pulling up to the fertility

clinic to like so like these these eggs are old freeze them yeah like we were just on it was just so funny like and we didn't know at the time until a little bit further down the track when we talked about that day and I was like lol like we could not be more contrasting but for a 20 what is he now, 28. For someone five years younger than me, Oscar's very, very logical, head screwed on. His older brother, who's a year younger than me, is married with two kids. So those kinds of conversations were never scary or daunting or too much for him. He's also like a professional athlete. So he has a very disciplined routine, I suppose. But we also had really good character references for each other from a mutual friend that we didn't realize until that kind of popped

up so there was never any fear of being judged I suppose that he's five years younger than me because he doesn't act like it doesn't feel like he feels like he's my age feels like he's 33 I think there's definitely been times in terms and this is like for all relationships just when you kind of figure out each other's way of communicating and how we navigate conflict and those kind of emotional aspects that you can sometimes see a bit of a difference but I wouldn't say that's like a total deal break like those are just for me those are just opportunities as all relationships should have where you can learn and grow and he can learn and grow because yeah I think if you're not constantly in that kind of cycle of growth with your partner then that's a bit

worrying I don't know like I always want to feel like I'm learning from him or I'm learning from myself in response to something that he may have said or that I have said yeah I mean honestly the only annoying thing is when people find out what he does and then i'm called a fucking wag that's annoying because it's like i am like i'm an author god damn it yeah i'm like exactly the same way yeah and it's just really that's the the only annoying thing about our relationship but um well you're like technically i am because wag is just a wife and girlfriend so you're like yeah cool technically i am but it's the negative we know how people are saying it and that's what really pisses me off like when i got the arias co-hosting gig the headline was afl wag and i was

like that's really insulting to like the 12 like never mind me being a music presenter for 12 years doing it last year I've literally seen Oscar play three quarters of AFL in the three years that we're together totally go off on the wag you know yeah Bridget thank you so much for joining us today Bridget's book Figuring Out 30 is going to be out January 7 we're going to link all of the socials the book in the show notes so if you want to go grab it it is a brilliant read that I think everyone should get around thank you so much it was so nice to catch up from where we last when we last left. It really was.

So much. So much has happened. Bridget, you're an absolute breath of fresh air and I know that so many people who are in their trenches of their 30s or even like approaching these years will get so much out of this. I think so. Thanks, gals.