Life Uncut - Going No-Contact. Self Preservation Or Selfish?

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Hey Lifers! We have a new drinking game for you all based on our individual ‘habits’ (flaws) and Ben has a very important question for Keeshia that could tear the team apart. Black Friday sales have got the better of some of us and Britt has a nice challenge for Laura during the busiest time of her year. Laura’s really showcasing how different things can be for the 3rd kid. Poppy’s actual birth date and full name are TBC. Britt shares a crazy story about how her dad spent most of his life not knowing his age! In a recent episode of Oprah’s podcast, Oprah tackled the rise of “going no contact” where adult children cut ties with parents or family. Is it destroying families, or is an act of ultimate self preservation and protecting your mental health? We speak about: The conversation around emotional safety, mental health and boundaries has changed What was once taboo (cutting ties with parents) is now being discussed openly — especially by our generations There doesn’t seem to be a line in the sand for what is and what is not ‘valid’ for going no contact Why family are the only people we are ‘willing’ to accept bad behaviour from Have we gone too far with ‘boundary’ talk/ don’t have enough grace for our parents? If validation and self reflection are the only solution You can watch the whole episode of ‘Oprah Explores the Rising Trend of Going No Contact with Your Family’ If you’d like to listen to a previous episode where we spoke about estrangement, you can here: Narcissistic parents Sam FischerEm Carey Bridget Hustwaite Melissa Leong  You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Hosted by Britt Hockley & Laura Byrne & Keeshia Pettit  Produced by Keeshia Pettit Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford Recorded on Cammeraygal Land Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. So just kick starting this off. Just on the way in here this morning, Ben was like, because Ben and I talk on the phone every day on the way in. That's the time that we talk because he's going to bed, I'm awake and he's like can you call Keisha in and I was like yeah why he's like I need to ask for something and I said okay so I called Keisha in and then Keisha was at the vet dropping her dog off Bonnie off to get de-sexed and it apparently wasn't the time for Ben to ask his question so he so he didn't get to ask he didn't ask you because you were like I'm so anxious Ben

was like I'm really curious what's the question hello I'm overwhelmed with anxiety sorry I know I'm overtaking it is it normal to feel anxiety when your dog goes in to get to sexing because i'm feeling so anxious well it's an operation yeah but i think she's just a little i but i think it's also fine like every single dog does it yeah we got one comment once it was a couple weeks ago from someone being like every time keisha and britney are on the podcast together all they talk about is their dogs and i was like you clearly don't follow my instagram because you would be outraged i also like that um 45 seconds in whilst brit's trying to tell a different story Keisha's like, I have a dog, sorry.

Keisha, I wonder why people say that. I'm just anxious, okay? I'm on high anxiety and I'm feeling stressed. Also, that is not all we talk about. We talk mostly. No, we often talk about babies as well, so fuck off. And we talk about poo. We talk about heaps of stuff.

And labias, okay? We're criticized for all of the above. If you actually, do you know what? Coming into Christmas, there probably should be some Christmas drinking game coming into the end of the year. No, there already is. Life has made it last year. No, I know.

there needs to be a new one an updated one based on this year it needs to be how many times you're going to have sex with your husband uh anytime brit mentions having sex with ben anytime i mention anything postpartum or about my labia yours is there was a drinking game last year i don't know if you saw it anytime i say triangulation or galvanized or galvanized anytime keisha mentions bonnie anytime delilah's mentioned or poppy to be fair i don't mention delilah a lot anymore I don't. No, I think I've taken over. Yeah, that was the criticism.

The triangulated made me laugh. And I was like, that is true. You've done a very good job at not using it this year. I had to censor myself. I've come up with new words. But no, I'm here for the question, Britt. What is it? He's like, I wanted to ask you this question, but then she was all panic attack and I didn't do it.

And I was like, oh, what's the question? I can ask her if you want. And he's like, oh, that'd be great. And he said, well, as you know, I listen to every episode of the podcast. Because he does. Bless him. No one from my family or anyone who loves me listens to every episode. I think I have like one friend who listens to every episode still.

I don't think Ben would listen as much, to be honest, if we lived together, but I think it's his way of just like keeping up with the Joneses. So he's like, I listened to the episode a couple of days ago where you were all talking, you were doing an Ask Uncut and you were unpacking it. It was a question about if you hired somebody that you'd slept with, that your partner slept with in the past. You know, we're talking about a receptionist. She hired someone.

It turns out that person had hooked up with her partner in the past. And Kisha goes, well, Laura, for example, if I fucked Matt and then you found out years later, how would you feel? And Ben wants to know why you chose Matt and you didn't want to. He wants to know why you didn't want to have sex with Ben. Proximity to the person is the reason I chose Matt. Ben, I apologize. If I was given the option.

No, I think it was time. No, you love big people. answer that question now if I was given the option of Ben or Matt make it real awkward you'd go Ben surely I that's me it's like because like surely it's my husband I think because the destruction I don't know because like then I might lose access to Delilah like what would be more destructive like if you had to break down a relationship yeah would I break down a family with three children or would I break down my access to my supplementary child Delilah it It depends on when you did it because if you'd done it

in the last couple of months, you'd be doing me a favour. You'd be taking a job off her plate. I'm a busy gal. You're welcome. I'm going to invoice you for that. All right, I'll let you do it. And to be clear, I don't think Ben wants to have sex with you. I think he's just a bit upset.

Maybe that's my question back to you, Ben. Why not? It was the same as when Mitch Turi on radio, he chose to have sex with Laura over me. You still think about that, yeah. It's my Roman Empire. hey can I just say firstly this is coming out on Wednesday as you guys know if you're listening to it today it is three weeks until Christmas as of right this very second three weeks that's three

weeks I have three weeks to find a glitter light up water bottle Lola's been very specific they don't exist but I've looked everywhere she wants a light up glitter water bottle and when I said the other day I was like I don't know where we're gonna get one from and she was like well clearly Santa's gonna make it and I was like yeah you got me I was like where did you see one she's like in my brain so my kids just making up imaginary toys that she wants surely you can go on amazon and or timu and that exists i've looked but i also don't really want to give my kid a water bottle from timu that sounds like plastic poisoning right there no i've looked i've looked but it's it's real it's on and for how many black friday sales have just happened over the last week i did not

buy a single present during black friday like i bought a lot of things that also seems weird i thought that would be when parents are like locking it down yeah you would think but i was overwhelmed There were so many ads. So I just bought this for myself. This was the most wild Black Friday. Can I tell you, I did not buy one thing at all until last night. You panic bought. With one hour to go.

Actually, it was 47 minutes. I saw, but this is my personality type. I've told you this about everything I do. Like when I'm packing, if I have exams at school or whatever it was, I wait until I can't wait anymore. And I don't know why I did it. I was like, I'm not doing Black Friday. it's too much and then I was like 47 minutes to go and I was like online trying to buy stuff

it also was the most aggressive like I mean as a brand every single brand out there was putting so much money behind like Facebook ads and like it felt like anytime you opened your emails there was like another unsolicited reminder that Black Friday was on and every single brand had a count I'm not poo-pooing it because we did it so this is not criticism I get it yeah I was leading the charge on this but um it was unrelenting and i felt as though every day i caved but i kind of forgot about a lot of the purchases i made because they were so impulsive and crazy so all of a sudden i was like alias may shoes oh yeah i bought those three nights ago wow that shipping is so fast i also got adidas shoes 40 off i got a lipo suction not like what's it called i got lipo last

Look how thin I am. I got a cellulite red light thing. I'm never going to use it. No, I know you well enough to know you're never going to. That's going to come out of the pack at once and I don't even think you're going to charge it. The ads were so good. But you already, last year you already bought a cellulite machine thing and you didn't use it. I don't use it.

So now you've got two that you don't use. But I've got extra cellulite now after giving birth. I feel like they play on the impulse control of which I have very little. And I also, this is when you know it's fucked. It's when you get – do you have the AusPost app and you get notifications for it? Oh, I mute that. I don't know.

I'm getting notifications and I'm like, I don't even know. I couldn't tell you what I purchased from that brand that is apparently being delivered to my house. But this is not funny. I mean – It's not funny. I need therapy. My bank account's fucked now.

I fucking nailed – sorry, I nailed it. Well done. That's impulse control. I did message Laura in the middle of her sale. You'll probably forget. I was like, hey, I just had a realisation. I was like, probably not the time, but I really want to get like a custom-made ring that matches Ben's from last year

in the middle of her – she ignored it. The middle of a Black Friday sale. I did mean to write back to you. Britt messaged me on Black Friday, the middle of Black Friday, to ask for a custom-made ring and asked if I could do it in two weeks. No, I said I'm sure it can't be done in two weeks. That's what I said. I said so I can get it in February.

I was like, I will worry about this in a few days' time. Lord, give me strength. it was also because you know it's those things and I knew I'm a self-aware enough to know that I'm self-aware enough but I hit send anyway I did because it's one of those things I've been thinking about and every time we leave at work I'm like damn it I didn't mention the thing so when it popped into my head I was like I need to text it now or it's dead in the water yeah so anyway have you got it yeah it's been three days where is it I do want to say though about Black Friday. It is getting more insane every year. And I think that a lot of people felt too overwhelmed

to even purchase. It was like purchase paralysis that like there were so many brands screaming at them that they were like, oh, I know I need to do something or get something or be organized for Christmas. But unless you go in with a plan now, you are going to get fucked sideways by Facebook ads. You know, I listened to an interesting episode of the Daily Oz the other day about Black Friday and how it started. And it was apparently like some American, I think it was like a baseball game, some type of sporting game. And that's where the name came from. And then it was quite controversial in Australia because of the horrible fires that we had here that were also called Black Friday. And apparently there's this thing, there is a term for it, I can't remember

what it is now, but basically where these certain brands will actually inflate the price of their goods the day before so that the sale looks as though they're getting discounts, but you're not. And so some of it's really fake and I felt very misled and I was like, damn it, it worked. A lot of brands will do their, but you know what? It depends on what's happening. A lot of brands will do their increases in their products a month beforehand. So that way they can still discount them, but they're not discounting them for like 50, 60, 70% off.

But also gone are the days of doing like a 15% off sale. If your sale isn't 30% off or more, I don't want to hear about it. Do you know what else? Sorry, gone are the days of Black Friday. I have been getting Black Friday sale ads for a month. Yeah, I actually made some. It's like Black November or Black December or something. the day in the week of sales is gone. Yeah. The reason for that though, and I can say this

as a brand, we do one week. So we started the Monday earlier, but a lot of brands start on the 1st of November now and they run it for a month, which I honestly just don't know how a brand could even have the inventory to do that. But the reason why they do it is because Facebook ads are so expensive. So in now during that week or during that day of Black Friday, in order to get a purchase, you've got to pay like six times what you would normally pay for that ad. So just to get you to see the ad because it's so competitive and every brand's putting ads out, you've got to pay so much more. So people start earlier when the ads are less expensive

and it allows them to be able to make the money without spending so much money in order to advertise. Yeah, I know, but everyone's going to try and top each other and it's going to start in like February. Well, speaking of like a barrage of calls or ads or whatever, I was getting a ton of missed calls last week. Actually, it's a lie. I've been getting a fuck ton of missed calls for about three weeks now.

you've been getting them for about 32 years no but I I get a lot of sales calls right like constantly I get sales calls and the reason for this is because there is a search engine out there where my actual phone number is listed and I can't get it off I don't know why it's on there I don't know how it ended up on there but for some reason it is on there as like the contact us number for Tony May it's only one specific search engine it's been there for like 15 years and I can't no I know how to find I know exactly where it is I see it there all the time and I can't remove it. So every so often I get random calls from salespeople and now I screen them because I don't want my personal number to be the number that people are calling. When I'm at the beach on

a Tuesday with the kids and it's like, hello, this is Wendy from blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Wendy, it ain't the time. Okay. So Laura used to drive me to work and back the amount of calls that she would get. And I am still flabbergasted by how kind you are because I am, I'm ruthless. Tell everyone more. I just hang up. Yeah, but if it's a customer, if these are real customers. No, they will be from a sales company and Laura is so lovely and she's like, oh, you know, if you could email me some details

or blah, blah, blah, or we're not currently interested and she'll talk back and forth. I am just hang up and block. If you can email me some details so I can ignore you by email, that would be great. Yeah, I prefer to email you in peace and ignore you in peace. I prefer to block you by emails. No, but I've kind of, maybe Keisha, I've gotten less kind.

I just don't, I don't answer them now. Like now when it's a no number call, I just don't answer it. You also don't answer our calls. That's true. I'm busy. I'm postpartum, goddammit. How long can I say that for? She's too busy being kind to sales staff.

She probably doesn't answer mine. We have to call each other three times and then we have to SOS each other and then we have to double down saying I need to speak to you and then we're like, better call them back. I need a missed call and a text that says, hey, can you call me back? Because then you know it's real, yeah. So anyway, I've been having lots of missed calls, private number, and I've been screening them.

Anyway, the other day I had six missed calls from a private number in like literally a really small period of time. And I was like, I reckon it's the same one. So finally I decided to answer one of the calls and I was like kind of annoyed because this had been going on for so long now. It's harassment. Yeah. I answered it abruptly.

I was like, I don't have time for your Black Friday calls. She answered it. She goes, fucking what do you want? No, I was just like, hello. And she was like, hello. And I was like, yes, how can I help you? And she was like, oh, this is Susan from Birth, Death and Marriages. And I was like, oh God, that's not good.

My grandma recently passed away and we literally just settled, like finalised all of her will and her beneficiaries and all this stuff and I was like, oh, it's something to do with that. And I was like, oh, gosh, yes, sorry. And I'm not the person to call, right? Like if there's an issue with my nan's will, call my sister. She's the safe one in the family. You're also just not the admin, girly.

That's what I mean. You're like my nan died? Sorry, what? I was wondering if you had to return my calls. Shirley, she also thought I was calling from a private number. She's been screening them for years. No, my sister was put down as like the financial person on the will because she's way more trustworthy than me.

So I was like, why are you calling me, Susan? Anyway, she was like, do you have a daughter named Poppy? And I was like, Poppy, is she? Where is she? No, she's on my chest. We're good. I was like, she's good. Anyway, so it turns out that, you know, when your baby's born,

you've got to do a registration for them. we did the registration and I did it online one night. You got to do it within six weeks of the baby being born. So of course, two nights before we were outside of that six week period, it was late at night. And I had that stroke of like, oh my God, I've got to register puppy. So I registered her sweet, happy days, got the email confirmation. And she goes, oh, can you just confirm your daughter's birth date with me? And I had this blank moment. I don't know puppy's birthday. I don't know it. I don't know what day I gave birth. I have to look back through my camera roll to find the day I was going to say I could do that because you messaged me every time I get

asked I have to look back through my camera roll and check it's it's the 24th of September but I can't say that confidently unless I go back and look okay so I was like okay just wait with me one second I'll go back and I'll flick through my camera roll so I went back through and I literally and so I was like oh it was the 24th and she goes like yeah of what month and I was like uh September and she was like oh so it's the 24th of September and I was like yeah she goes okay just letting you know you actually filled out that your child's born on the 24th of October and I was like oh okay well yeah that's not right that's it's clearly incorrect and she was like okay I'll change it and she's like can you just confirm the full name and I was like yep it's

Poppy Pearl Johnson and she's like oh she has a middle name and I was like yeah she has a middle it's Pearl and she goes oh you didn't put that on the form either we just I just totally registered my baby incorrectly Laura registered it as Floppy Poppy Floppy Poppy was born in October sloppy poppy here she is wrong name didn't give her a middle name and forgot her birth month just thought she was four weeks so what did you register just pop pop stops things really change by the third don't they they really do and i'm not putting as much effort she's like i don't fucking know it's called well i i felt like i'm a little bit redeemed in this so i put it up on facebook because i had a moment where i was like i know that people do unhinged things in postpartum

i've already said it left the car door open but i was like what happened to you if you were the third child or what unhinged thing did you do if you're a parent of a third child some of these made me laugh these were the comments on the post my parents made me hide in a cupboard so that they could hire a four-person mini moke on magnetic island i would do that that's fair cost effective that's fair it's like when they make you lie about your age so you can get in for free like literally you're two today you're five no you're not get on your knees so okay i went to enroll my daughter into daycare when she was two years old only to discover that we actually never registered her birth at all she's not even here they must have been anti-vax because you've got

to vaccinate your children but like that's a whole other thing let's not bring it let that one slide this one's bad i forgot to pick my third son up from his first day of school that's a neglected child that's normal sad oh no i'm child three i've been forgotten many times my husband put his own name on the birth registry that's what happens when men get admin jobs my son is five years old there is yet to be a single photo of him on the mantelpiece but it's okay because he looks a lot like his older brother so i just tell him that the baby photos are him oh my god you guys that's gold you know how last week we shared fun facts i don't know why i got served this video on instagram the other day it was very interesting have you guys heard of the

icelandic naming committee yeah you have to be approved they all have to do it you know this so you've got six months you basically if you're a part of iceland what what do you mean what nationality icelandic if you're icelandic you've got six months to basically like you either cannot give them a name or you can wait until the six month period and then you give the icelandic naming committee the name that you wish to call your child and they can decide whether they approve it or not and apparently there's all these like rules and regulations so none of the babies have names until they're six months old so you could have picked sloppy poppy and they could say nah they would say no yeah they would say no to protect it this video that i saw i mean i probably

should have saved it but basically they determine whether it is in fitting with other icelandic names and if they think that it kind of fits the culture i don't mind that i mean like to some extent i there are a lot of names where not a lot of names but there are some names out there where i'm like why why do that to your child there are some that are banned here yeah talking about third child and you've forgotten my dad and I'm probably going to butcher this story if he listens to it he does listen to it but my dad's the sixth child and he's the youngest of six and um he's lucky he's got a name yeah he's lucky he's still here he got sent off to boarding school when he was like 11 because I mean this takes a turn but his dad passed away and there were too many kids

and grandma couldn't do it so she's like you're gonna have to go to boarding school but she needed him to get in and so she just changed his birthday and then dad didn't really no until his whole life until he grew up and needed his birth certificate and he just was like oh that's not my birthday older or younger they had to make dad older to get in oh no one wants to be aged to whatever it was and so dad just had his birthday wrong he's nearly his whole life until he was like way way way way older and grandma was like oh that's right i had to get you off to school so she just fucking made it up so and dad was like okay so am i younger or older how old am i well he got life back i guess but it was a different time back then too you could do it

There was no way to like, like my dad's 68. So no one was. Or is he? Well, we don't actually know. She's 40. Well, I, Laura, this is good news for you as well. I went up to Crescent Head. It's north of Port Macquarie.

It's about five, six hours drive. And it was my cousin Ellie's wedding. You guys met Ellie at my wedding, actually, Keisha and Laura. But she looked stunning. She looked so beautiful. But she was head to toe in Tony May, which was really, really nice. We love it. She's one of us.

Yeah, she's one of us. And I was like, Laura's going to love that. post it and do some hashtags. She did. She's like Black Friday final sale. Does she have a Keisha 20? Black Friday ends Monday midnight. It's a run, don't walk situation. She paid for it. So yeah. Shame. Yeah. That is a shame. Well, something happened there that has never happened to me before. It was a real amalgamation wedding. So growing up, I had a long-term boyfriend. I was with him for eight years. You guys know that my first ever boyfriend from Port Macquarie. So he was at the wedding and I haven't seen him in 15 years because his best friend married my cousin.

So it was this really weird – and my cousin – Sorry, that was the most small town thing. No, it gets more – If you draw the diagram, you don't have to draw that many lines. No, it gets more Venn diagram. So my cousin married a guy I grew up with who was my partner's best friend, but my cousin also got into radiology, so I worked with her. So this wedding was like my year – it was like a reunion.

Every one of my work colleagues I ever worked with, because we all worked together, all of my school friends and then all of my ex-partner's friends. There was not, it was 200 people there. It was not a person I didn't know. It was wild. Like every aspect of our lives were back entwined. And because she's my cousin, all my family were there.

So I had all my family, all my friends, all my work friends, and all the people I grew up with. It was really weird. Anyway, all of these people I hadn't seen in like 15, 20 years. And I was like, oh, I want to make sure I look good. And like, you know, it's going to be really cool. My ex-boyfriend's going to be there. Who cares?

You know, it's been 20 years and I'm married. Brittany Hockley. Everyone cares. I would care. Everyone's like, how does it feel that you're going to run into him? I was like, run into who? Oh, I like that you played that down. I don't even know who you're talking about.

No. I've got three layers of fake tan on. Believe it or not, that's not for him. But my point is, it was great. We caught up. It was great. My point is I got this beautiful dress. It's not subtle.

It was like a beautiful blue. Little that you do is subtle. Yes, yes. It wasn't just like a plain black dress or whatever. I don't want to say standout, but you could see it. A bright blue with bright red flowers and it had like a low V-neck and it had the see-through bottom and it was beautiful. Walked straight in and ran into a girl who had the exact dress on.

I went to the wedding with this girl and we looked at each other and so, of course, I pushed her in the pool. I was like, so, yup, what am I going to do? But that's never happened to me in my whole life, running into a girl in the same dress. Well, I would hate to be her, to be honest, because I think you looked really, really good. No, I don't know what she looked like.

I haven't seen a photo of her. but I think your only option in that situation is to make a joke of it and take all of the like the twin photos you know the funniest thing we walked in and looked at each other like smack banging each other's face and we looked at each other for a minute I don't know her and she goes this is gonna go on the podcast isn't it recently we prepped to do an episode around going no contact with a parent and at the time when we were talking about it between ourselves it felt a little bit too close to home and a little bit too pointed yeah and this was probably like four to six weeks ago

we've sat on a fully prepped episode and every week we have said like hey still too close to home should we yeah we're like should we do this I'm like I prepped that are we using it should we do the estrangement episode and we haven't done it and then obviously Oprah got wind of the fact that we were going to drop this episode and she's beat us to it and she's dropped an estrangement podcast episode. If you guys haven't seen it, it's a really, really amazing watch. So it's like an hour and 10 minutes. It's called Oprah Explores the Rising Trend of Going No Contact with Your Family. It's had 3.7 million views at the time of when we're recording this, which is pretty huge. And it's been shared quite a few times on social media now. The reason why we wanted to talk about

this is because the statistics are really high. It was said on the YouTube show, on Oprah's show, that one third of Americans are no contact with a family member, whether that's a parent or a Sibling. And it does seem to be something that is a rising trend in our generation, adult children choosing to cut off family members, citing the biggest reason to be to preserve their mental health. But also it asks the question of, is this actually an act of like the greatest form of self-love, preserving your mental health, or is it something that is truly destroying families? We've talked about this a few times between us, and we seem to have slightly different views on the reasons why someone might make that great decision or grand

decision to cut off a family member. Sometimes it feels as though it might be something that comes off the back of a really big and monumental argument. Like maybe there's one big thing that happens, but I think for a lot of people who have gone no contact with a family member, it's usually because of long-term consistent behavior, consistent disappointment, and knowing that no matter how you voice or no matter how you try and communicate your side of your experience, that it will either be met with defensiveness or lack of acknowledgement, or they're managing to be able to turn around the story completely and invalidate your experience. And a lot of people get to a point where they're like, I don't want to do this anymore. If you haven't seen the YouTube

podcast of this, I'll play this little snippet to give you context of what Oprah's talking about. Some experts believe that there's been a shift in how younger generations protect their mental health and their boundaries or have an expanded view of what is considered abuse. And that has led to a silent epidemic. So social media has millions of videos with the hashtag no contact from adult children who say that their parent or their sibling is toxic and they've had enough. So what is going on? I do wonder because they use the word trend in the episode title of Oprah's podcast. And a part of me is questioned, is it actually increasing or do we just have more visibility about it? Because I remember when Sam Fisher joined Life Uncut, when was that? 2022,

was it? Yeah, 2023, maybe? Yeah, one of the two. He spoke about the fact that he was estranged from his father. And that was the first time we had so many messages from people saying this episode meant everything to me because I am estranged from one of my parents and I have never heard at being spoken about this openly like it was quite a taboo thing we've also done an episode on narcissistic parents where one of our life has joined us and spoke about the fact that she was no contact with her mum recently we spoke with m kerry she's estranged from her father not by her choice we also had bridget hustweight who doesn't speak to her twin and then even just this week this last interview we did with melissa leong she's estranged from her father but not estranged

from her mother and her mother and father are still together so that is an even more complicated kind of a relationship but until we started having these conversations I'd also never heard of it it was so foreign to me the idea that there are people out there that would walk away from their family and just never talk to them again and I say that because I don't have that relationship with my family I have an incredible relationship with my family I'm very very lucky that I have like a healthy, loving, stable family home. But I do wonder, going back to the word you just used, Keish, trend, I think it's a little bit of A and a little bit of B. I think it's remiss of us to say that now that we have the visibility with social media and the way people are talking about it

more, yes, of course, more people are coming out of the woodwork just telling their story. But I do also wonder if it maybe plants ideas in some people that might not necessarily have thought of that before, which in turn leads to a trend. I have a real issue with it being called a trend, because I think it really minimizes the reasons as to why an adult child would choose to go no contact. And I mean, I know that there are, and like we've seen in this Oprah podcast, there are many different reasons why people choose this and choose separation from their family. But for anyone who has, it is usually because of a long-stemming relationship breakdown that they feel as though they can't overcome. I don't know anyone, and I know that

this is a very subjective way of looking at it, but I don't know anyone who's gone no contact with a family member, like a mom or a sibling, unless there has been something that has been deeply, deeply hurtful that has gone on for a long time. I don't think people are treating their family relationships as frivolous and just, you know, deciding one day that it's for their own limitations, that they're just throwing that family relationship in the bin. So I guess that kind of leads us to the question that we wanted to talk about today. And it is who is at fault for the estrangement? You know, who is at fault for this no contact relationship? Is it the fact that our parents' generation are unable to self-reflect? They're unable to take accountability

for their shitty behavior. They're unable to validate a child for the experiences that they had growing up and into adulthood. Or is it that our generation and potentially the generations younger than us have created this sense of like, I have boundaries for everything and that's crossed a line and I can't agree to disagree with anything. And if I don't agree with you on something I'm cutting you off you know have we been oversold what trauma looks like I think it can be from both parts I think it'd be a little bit from column a and a little bit from column b I do think it's very hard to move forward if you haven't been validated if you are telling someone the experience that you've had or you're trying to explain to someone how something deeply hurt

you for whatever reason that is and you're told that it shouldn't happen that you're wrong which I think is the experience of a lot of people a lot of adults who have decided to cut off their parents is because they've felt invalidated and they've felt as though that their experience has been told it's not true. And at least that, and I know it's really hard to approach this subject because I feel as though a lot of it does come from a subjective feeling or a subjective understanding of what people in my life have experienced. I know you guys know, I've talked about this before, like Matt doesn't have a relationship with his dad. His dad has never met our kids and I don't want to speak on behalf of him, but it took years to come to that decision.

It wasn't an overnight one thing happened, but it was a lack of accountability for behaviors that when something doesn't get resolved or even acknowledged, it's like, okay, well that happened and we're going to pretend like it never happened. And you just get to be absolved of it and continue on with shitty behavior that I have to accept into adulthood. And I guess another question on that, Keisha, is rather than trying to place blame on one side or the other, why is it that our family relationships, our parents and our siblings are the one relationship where really anything can kind of happen and there's still an expectation

that you'll keep them in your life. Because if you had a toxic friend, you would cut them. You would put boundaries in place. If you had a toxic romantic relationship, you would cut them. You would put boundaries in place. If you have a toxic workplace, all of those things apply. But when it comes to a parent or it comes to a sibling, there is a greater expectation that some sort of relationship is maintained because of the role. Yeah. And to that I would say, and I found this a really interesting discussion point that one of the psychologists mentioned on Oprah's podcast is that as a society in a generation, we outgrow each other. We distance ourselves from the other generation because of learned traits from that generation's time. So the way we evolve with

careers and relationships, politics, how we view the world, what we find acceptable, what we find toxic is very different and it is ingrained in our parents. And it's very easy for us to say that something is toxic that to them was completely normal. And the psychologist breaks that down saying, we may be too quick sometimes to dismiss our parents and say, you haven't accepted my boundaries. What you're doing is not okay. What you're doing is toxic. And your parents are genuinely like, sorry, what? Like I've given you the best life possible. I've done everything right by you and they truly believe that because of their time that was right and of our time it's not and they are not being served the same things on social media that we are they are not doing the

same studies that we are now I'm not defending this is a very blanket statement I'm not defending relationships that are violent or there are very toxic relationships occasionally I think we are too quick and I say this in relationships too and this is a generational thing we are very quick to throw in the towel where our parents' generation was not. So they would work through things, whereas we're like, no, washing my hands of that, I'm out, I'm going to move on because I can. And I think we need to maybe be a little bit more hyper aware of those, try to work through those before we necessarily throw a towel in. And that is coming from somebody that has never had to do it. I'm openly going to say that. But I do find it interesting that in this room right now,

there's four of us and each person in this room has direct relationship with somebody that has been estranged from someone in their family. Like that's a high statistic. I think there was a really big difference, particularly between this generations that we're talking about in terms of like the expectation of respect. I think our parents were just you had to respect your parents, you had to honour them, and they were very much a sweep everything

under the rug style of culture, whereas I think we are almost the polar opposite. We are like we air all of our dirty laundry. I mean we talk about it on podcasts, for God's sake. Like we're a lot more emotionally vulnerable and we expect that there will be accountability taken for actions. And there are other layers to add into this as well. You think about, you know, alcoholics and the fact that they're unreliable narrators

of stories and like everyone in a family will experience the exact same event in different ways and you will take away different things. And this has even happened within my own family of experiences that we had growing up that my brother and I have almost conflicting memories of. yeah and that has been something that's been quite hard for us to kind of get over and I think there's also like Laura I really agree with the point that you made of I think so much of this could be solved and I'm saying solved as in like the relationships could at least begin to repair if each person is able to come to the table with a little bit of self-reflection and accountability

it's so hard because I think that it's too easy to say if only we could communicate better then the relationships would work of course that's the literally the fucking solvent for any relationship breakdown and I think if you've never been in a situation of going no contact with a parent because you had an objectively great childhood and you don't have a long-stemming resentment and unhealed everything and blah blah blah like I think it's really hard to see how important validation can be I say this and I guess like this is probably the only personal thing I want to add because I have conflicting feelings about all this myself I have never been caught no contact with my parents at all, but I definitely had reduced contact with my dad for a long time. And that

was because he moved away when we were young. He wasn't aware of a lot of things that were going on in our household with my mom and my stepdad. And I felt really resentful that he didn't protect us more. And then when, you know, years later, when he was remarried and there were issues with his marriage there, like he prioritized other things. He would have a different version. I have no doubt. I have absolutely no doubt that my dad's perception of what happened in that 15 years is very different to my perception. But you know what? It's kind of, and I know that this is probably a really harsh way of saying it. It's kind of irrelevant what his perception is if he's not going to listen to what my lived experience was. And the reason why we have a good relationship

now is because at some point without having to sit down and have like the big conversation, I don't think my dad and I have ever, he's not the type of person you can sit down with and have a big conversation with. He's not an emotions person. But over the years, we've had a lot of micro conversations. One of them was around his drinking. I didn't like his drinking. My dad now, he took that on board, which I was like so remarkably impressed by. And he started only drinking light beer and then he reduced the amount of light beer he drinks. And now he barely drinks at all. And that's been a huge character change for him. And then also around when I did speak to him finally about some stuff that went, you know, happened in our childhood, he was like,

I wish I'd known and I wish I'd been there and I'm sorry I wasn't. And having that validation. So you needed. I could cry now thinking about it because it wasn't groundbreaking. It didn't change my life, but it at least validated that my experience of my childhood in some instances was really hard. And had he not said that, had he been defensive or told me he'd done the best he could at the time or he'd given me everything he could financially, we would not have a relationship

at all. But we do. and the other thing as well and i i really like sometimes i i probably this christmas will sit down and tell him how proud i am of him but even though i am the one who is less proactive in our relationship i don't send as many texts i don't send as many calls he wants to be a granddad and he tries so fucking hard he messages every other day regardless of whether he gets a reply or not photos of the flowers from his garden things that he thinks my girls might like because he wants to be a guy he's coming down again at Christmas time to spend time with them

and I think you can't have a relationship unless you're proactive and there are a lot of parents out there who are grown-ups and I'm sorry when I say parents I mean like people our age who now have children and they've decided you know what I don't just have to protect myself but I have to protect the well-being of my children and I don't want someone who isn't reliable in their life and I think yes we have been given a lot of therapy speak yes we've listened to the podcast and we've done a lot of self-work, but for a lot of people, life is more harmonious when some of those relationships have gone to no contact or have been reduced down. And I just don't want anyone who's decided to go no contact to feel vilified and feel as though they didn't try. I think that

that's actually the nail on the head. It is so exhausting being the only one who takes emotional accountability within a relationship. And I actually do think that our parents' generation have quite a big problem with this. The parentification of our parents in my friendship circles experience, and this could be super subjective, but I find it really frustrating that so many conversations I have with my friends are like, oh, you know, I've got to make the effort here and I've got to repair this. I've got this obligation, but there doesn't seem to be a two-way street at all. And so that is something that I have a big problem with. And one of the experts in Oprah's podcast, Nedra Glover-Tawar, but she wrote a book about set boundaries, find peace.

And she also said, you know, that we often will say our parents can only do what they can with the tools that they were taught. And, you know, a lot of them are parenting in the way that they were parented, but she also brought up a really good perspective of the fact that we have access to a lot more information now because of social media, but so do they. So, you know, where is their kind of desire to take on more information I really do think that there is this big difference in the way that we are able to self-reflect and I think that that is what is at the core of why so many people end up in estranged relationships because they're not able to mend the conflict that happens I look at my mum for example my mum is the most like a loving mum that

is always there for us but not in a way you would think she is not open with her emotions ever she's not physically affectionate she never was she cleans the house she cooked our dinner she took us to sport we always had food and washing and anything we wanted but the I guess the emotional connection was never there and is never there we very rarely I don't want to say we don't say we love each other we do but like my dad will call me every day and say he loves me mom I know absolutely does but she cannot communicate in that way and I just know that's how she is from her generation she's one of four her mum my nana has one arm and I say that because my mum's dad walked out on them when they were little kids and my nana is fucking amazing she raised like four

kids alone at 20 years old with one arm she lost her arm to polio and that is so ingrained in who my mum is because it's all she knew and so that's how she communicates and whilst I very easily could say emotionally neglectful I very easily could say that but I don't because I take all of that into consideration and I and I again that's my my example I have a question though for you in terms of your relationship Brit even though you say that she wasn't uh very like emotionally driven was she invested because I think that that's the difference you can be not emotionally soft and connected and be like the huggy kind of parent but you can be invested you can I know your friend's names I know oh yeah she's very invested what you like I know who you

are as a person everyone's experience of how they were parented is so different it's so so different and I think everyone's definition of what is traumatic is different now as well everyone's definition of what is abusive is different of what is toxic is different there is no black and white to this but I also reckon that you would you would definitely if you went down a rabbit hole on TikTok of emotional neglect there would be videos about if your mom never gave you a hug that's abuse you know there is the other end of this as well that is just so magnified and exaggerated where these behaviors that you've said the reason she's not a soft hugger is because she was brought up really pragmatically and that's who she is there would be content that exists that would

tell you that that was worthwhile cutting her off for and that is my point and I do wonder if we're too quick to go down that path. And I even say that, and I hope my mom doesn't listen to this and feel bad because my mom is the best. No, but for an example, my mom is also of the generation. If we were unpacking something emotionally, she wouldn't even realize that this has an effect, but she would be like, well, we just have to get on with it, don't we? Because that's all she knew was to get on with it. And you would talk to her about it. You'd be like, well, you don't really get on with it these days, mom. Like, like you could do this or this or this. We talk about our feelings now, mom. We resolve things. We unpack them. But she is just, she's like, what a waste

of time which is like you just have to get on with it because that's what their generation did and so if i didn't give my parents the slightest bit of leeway for how they were brought up and i think what i'm trying to say is with my mom and and i almost feel like did i just make her sound really bad but she's amazing everyone loves differently and presents differently in the world and like the way that she loves us looks different to the way dad loves us but it's not different at its core. The love and protection and support is the same, but they just present differently. And I think that that is just something that's individual to them. It's why it's important. Like, I mean, there's going to be lots of people listening to this

who aren't no contact with their family. Like they still have contact, but they wish in a perfect world they could be like, there's so many versions of what this looks like in relationships, but I think it's important that that's why we don't abuse therapy talk, right? Like you might know that you have a parent who is emotionally immature. The worst thing that you could possibly do is sit down with them and tell them that they're emotionally immature. The only thing you're going to get back from that is defensiveness and is hurt and upset and them being probably outraged by it because there is no relationship. If someone came to me and said, Laura, you are emotionally immature, I would be offended and I probably would be defensive because that type of

conversation doesn't move it forward in any way. I don't think using therapy talk as a way of explaining your boundaries or why you feel a certain way is going to be productive at all in fixing a relationship. Trying to have a conversation potentially about the reasons why you feel a certain way might help it. But at the same time, like everyone knows what they're, you've had 30 years or 40 years or 20 years experience of your parents. You know most of the time how these conversations are going to go. There is sometimes the exception and there is sometimes pleasant surprises. Like I say with my dad, I was so pleasantly surprised by how much he changed because having us in his life is his priority. Interestingly, Laura, like apart from you and

when we would talk about, you know, Matt's relationship with his dad, I had never really come across estrangement until I met Ben. And so Ben and I had a lot of trouble understanding this with Ben and we I don't want to say we argued about it but we probably sort of did a little bit in the first year of our relationship coming from my naivety and like lack of understanding he has been estranged from his father since he was about 15 years old I think he's spoken to him once or twice when his grandpa and his father's dad was passing away it was his grandfather's wish to have them together so Ben showed up and I could not get my head around that idea I was like how can you just not speak to your dad he's your dad he raised you for 15 years he did all these things

and Ben was like life is just easier without it he's not the person that I you know need or want in my life and I almost pushed a little bit too far in that time saying like how do you know if you haven't spoken to me in 17 years like eight 19 years now I'm like how do you know like have you ever got his side of the story is it worth you meeting up and talking to him what if he died tomorrow would you be devastated and it got to the point where Ben was like you don't get it because you have a great relationship but you need to understand for me my life has been markedly different and markedly better since I cut him off and that was a real learning curve for me of being like oh okay cool I've just got to like let you do what you've got to do you've made the

choice an educated choice in your own relationship but it was really really hard to understand that anyone could just walk away and have a better life I put up on socials and we did a poll on I found cut I also did one personally but there was quite a few of you guys who messaged around your personal experiences as to why you'd cut off I didn't ask for that but so many of you shared the reasons why all the things and what has happened in your life that have gotten you to the point and something that I was a recurring theme in this is that a lot of people had done the real hurt whilst they were trying to repair the relationship while they were still in it so a lot of people had come to this almost breaking point where they were like I am done and I am

emotionally cut off from wanting to try anymore so it feels cold and it feels final but it's because it's almost like when you do the breaking up but you're still in the relationship so when it comes to breaking up you're just like cold and done and I think that that's why no contact can feel so incredibly severe because it doesn't come with any repair work after the point it's like you've done done done try try try try tried see I'm fucking over it right for a lot of people but I wanted to read a couple of them out to you because some of them actually came as a real surprise to me. This person wrote, I stopped talking to my dad for two years because he was late to my wedding to walk me down the aisle. No reason for it. Didn't call to say anything.

Didn't tell me he was running late. He didn't apologize that he also didn't get me a wedding card or anything to say congratulations. We've come a long way since that day, but it took me two years to get over that event. I liked that one because I thought it was different to a lot of the others where they were like repeated behavior. This one said, my mom just up and left a few years ago. She believes that since she has done 30 years of being our mom, she is simply finished and doesn't want to be one anymore. I've tried everything and it goes nowhere. She doesn't believe that she has done anything wrong. She gave us the best life as far as she is concerned. My father was the one who went no contact with me after I asked him to tell me the truth about

changing my grandmother's will. I clearly told him I didn't want any money. I just wanted honesty. He left all of my grandmother's jewelry to his then wife who hated my grandmother. The wife has since left him and she has all of my grandmother's jewellery. He went no contact with me stating that his pride had been hurt and it has been 15 years since he spoke to me. That's an unusual one. The last one I wanted to share was this. I could chat about this all day.

Just because you're family doesn't mean that you're entitled to my time or my energy. I prefer my friend's company over my family's. Which to me, I read that and I thought that felt really cold but without context, anything can feel cold. 100%. everything needs context. But I do think it's important, we haven't touched on it yet, just to say that in Oprah's podcast, the conversation wasn't just about children that

had gone no contact with their parents. It was also about parents that had chosen to go no contact with their children. This can work two ways. Unfortunately, sometimes it can work the way of one of the listeners that you just read out that might feel a bit fucking unnecessary, like I've done my job, I'm out. But it can come for other reasons too. There are plenty of children that can also be toxic to their parents. And one lady on Oprah's podcast said that her son was awful by all accounts. And he was quite violent and he was aggressive and she was like, I don't need you. And he was grown. So he was an adult child. She didn't go and leave a five-year-old. Who'd been abusive since he was 15 years old.

That's also fine. That is so fine. Like this works two ways. Speaking of two ways, I guess like to leave this and a question that I would love for us to kind of unpack a little bit is who do you think is the most responsible? Do you think that a parent is always holds a slightly higher responsibility to maintain a relationship even when a child is an adult? Or do you think that once you become an adult, it is equal responsibility to contribute to that relationship? I went into a deep dive on this exact question last night and most of the psychologists that I looked into had said that the tables turn once a child becomes an adult, it becomes even. And until the child is an adult, it's the adult's responsibility.

It's so interesting because I know that this goes against what a lot of the therapy talk says and even what you just said, Britt, but there's a part of me that does feel that like no matter what age, your parent is still your parent. I feel the same. And your parent still parents you in some ways. Like everyone's going to have a different take on this. I was speaking to Ellie about this, Matt's mum who lives with us,

and she had the opposite view. She has an incredible relationship with her kids and she tries so hard. I see her try every day to maintain that relationship. And I asked her, like, what's her take on it? And she said, I am a parent. I will always be responsible for my relationship with my kids. I will always be responsible to ensure that I have a close relationship with them. And I was like, you know what?

That's why you do. Because you've taken the responsibility to do so. I know it's not and it shouldn't be your responsibility your whole life. But the reason why you're so close to every child, five children, is because every day you proactively ensure that that relationship is and I guess at the end of the day when I think about my own kids and it's far too early to even say what I'm going to be like in 30 years time but I hope that if Marley came to me when she's 35 and she said actually mum you fucking work too much and I felt like I didn't get xyz from you or whatever is her grievance with the way that I

parented I hope that I have enough self-reflection I can listen to episodes like this and be like I'm sorry if I didn't meet you where you needed to be met at that time even if it doesn't reflect my reality I hope that I have the self-awareness to be able to say what can I do so that our relationship now can be as good as it can possibly be yeah but then how tempting would it be because this is how I would feel and this is going back to what we said at the start how tempting would it be to be like man I worked my ass off to give you the life that you had because that's what you would you had a beach house god damn it dude that's what I mean and that is the problem that's the problem where parents where people are like you're not listening to what I'm saying and the

parents are like I'm actually so upset that I gave up everything to work so hard to give them that and now they're saying it wasn't enough like I can understand why when that is the situation that's what parents want to say straight off the bat is like I did that for you but then you're making it about yourself but that's my point it's no longer about that child's experience yes because they can coexist i truly believe that because that child's experience is their experience because it's the truth but the truth was not because of neglect the truth was because i did it because i loved you so much i wanted to give it to you so both people are having an experience that is true to themselves that looks different to the other party i think that brit

you've actually outlined exactly what i think is the one thing that is able to mend damaged relationship so that estrangement doesn't result and it's validation of each other's experiences it doesn't have to be that you agree with them it just has to be that I acknowledge that that is how you felt in that experience and then people can move forward and I think without that that is why a lot of kids get to the point where they're like I can't keep on asking and hoping for the fact that you're going to validate my reality because you keep on shutting it down and i'm not going to be putting myself through this emotional turmoil anymore i just want to leave this conversation by saying like if you are someone who has gone no contact with your family

member i understand and i deeply believe and from everything i have seen that you have your reasons to do so and i don't want you to feel in any way that those reasons have been minimized yeah in this conversation that we're having and also let us know like if you have your own unique experience as to why you've chosen this we would love to garner and and get as much information on this as possible because it is a rising conversation. It is something that so many of us experience. We talk about relationships of all shapes and sizes, romantic relationships, friendships, something we've spoken

about from time to time but haven't deep-dived as frequently or as much on is this, and it's very evident that almost everyone is affected by it in some way, whether it's you with your own family or a friend in their family, you will know someone who has gone out of contact with a family member. All right, guys, it is time for Suck and Sweet, the highlight and the low light of the week my suck for the week is that i was about to say both

kids but i have three two of my three kids have been sick lola had gastro then marley had some sort of cold sickness and then i think poppy is getting it and then last night i had a bout of it as well so woo it's all been happening in my household it's just like the never-ending daycare knows you know the never not running daycare knows is what's happening in my house at the moment lola is going to primary school next year and so my sweet from the week is just like this week she had her graduation from daycare and so she had to wear a little graduation cape and she had a little graduation hat and they sang a song about boundaries and no doubt she's gonna enact those on me when I'm grown up and old 100% she'll be like you fucked me up mom she says please stop

I don't like that I'm feeling uncomfortable I need more space sorry that's the graduation song not around me don't take it personally it's just a boundary it's just a boundary for real yeah that's her graduation song gone are the days of just having i hope you had that time of your life why can't we just let them live a little yeah and molly's was like my hat and backpack uniform and shiny shoes but lola's singing about boundaries 2026 is coming guys sorry learn the boundaries but let them celebrate their graduation anyway that is my sweet was very very cute boundaries and all now anytime i try and touch her she says it's just a boundary and every time i hug she's like I don't like that don't touch me it's a boundary it's just a boundary so now yeah exactly

now I'll be like how are you and she'll be like I'm uncomfortable and I'm like about what she's like because you won't let me have a wee spa and I'm like fucking see too much for me it's trauma too much for me I am traumatizing them my suck and sweet are around the same thing my suck of the week is I went up to the wedding which was six hours away and when I was leaving the next day someone wore the same dress as me no that's not the suck when I was leaving the next day it's a big drive like I said so I had all my shit that I was putting in the car stopped at a cafe to get food and I had drinks like five different kinds of drinks I got like a coke because I knew that in four hours I'd want it but then I got my coffee hot and cold but then I needed more substance so

I got a banana smoothie with you still sit all in the car everything made it to the car except the banana smoothie which I put on the roof because I had my hands full so I put stuff on the roof of the car which is why I got your stuff off the car today Laura because I was like I don't want you to drive off with it but I put on the car everything made it the coffees and everything drove off and the banana smoothie did not make it we've all been there yeah but it's worse banana smoothies do you know what that do you know what that looks like as it goes down your car in the sun and then my sweet was the fact that I went to my cousin's wedding which was beautiful and all my family and friends were there watching her get married like it's she's been my little

my little cousin like my whole life so it's it was really a really beautiful moment seeing her marry someone that I've also known my whole life was weird because I went up to him and I was like we went to school together I was like weird that you're in my family now but like welcome but yeah so it was a it was a beautiful wholesome kind of weekend small town vibes yeah but that's my suck that's my sweet well guys that is it from us join the discussion on our instagram at life on cart podcast and you can also watch the youtube actually we'll link everything about oprah's youtube it's very easy to find if you want to google it but we'll link in case you don't know who oprah is she's uh you will link it on the show notes and also you can go and watch

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