Life Uncut - How To Make Sure the People You Love Don't Struggle Alone - Uncut with Gus Worland

Episode Date: August 27, 2024

Gus Worland is a TV, podcast and radio host, and the director and founder of the mental health foundation Gotcha4life. Gus is a passionate advocate for building mental fitness. Gus is particularly good at helping women connect with the men in their lives in ways that enable vulnerable and real conversations about their mental health. We chat: Gus’ childhood friendship with Hugh Jackman, or ‘Jacko’ as he calls him Whether Gus is jealous of Hugh’s friendship with Ryan Reynolds What mental fitness is & why we have such an issue with mental health now Where men disproportionately struggle Why so many men are suffering in silence and don’t speak up when they’re struggling Not letting anyone struggle alone Creating ‘villages’ around us  Gus also speaks about some really practical ways that we can connect with blokes, not try to ‘fix’ everything and create relationships where they feel comfortable speaking up.You can find more from Gus on Instagram Gotcha 4 Life Instagram Gotcha 4 Life Website If this conversation brought up things for you, please reach out for 24/7 support at Lifeline or call 13 11 14 You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Cammeraygal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. Today's guest is a man of many talents. I'm very excited to introduce Gus Warland. He's a TV podcast and radio host, and on top of that, he's the director and founder of the mental health foundation, Gotcha for Life. Now, Gus is a passionate advocate for building mental fitness. Our very own producer, Keisha, has worked alongside him

for many, many years, and she has nothing but amazing things to say about you, Gus. Actually, do you know what she said today? She said, you are the best man that she knows. The best man she knows. And she said that to her partner Tobin. That went down like a sack of shit. Like a lead balloon, that one. Be better, Tobes. Yeah.

And on top of that, and this has nothing to do with anything, but he just so happens to be best friends with Hugh Jackman. So we just thought we'd slide that on into the intro too. Today Gus is here to speak with us about creating mental fitness within ourselves and the people that we love. Gus is particularly good at helping women connect with the men in their lives to make sure that they can be vulnerable and have really open, honest conversations.

So we are so happy to welcome you to Life Uncut, Gus. Oh, thank you. Thanks for having me. And as you say, Keish and I have been working together for a long time and I was waiting to get invited on because you guys are like number one podcast like in the world. So let's do it. Put that on your bumper sticker.

In the world, everyone. You heard it here first. I thought you were about to say, oh, Keish is also the best man I know. She's a pretty special lady. I'm glad that she's happy now. She's got a bike that's half decent. He's pretty good. I reckon he's at least three-quarter decent.

No Gus. but he's not Gus level Gus we kickstart everything with an accidentally unfiltered your most embarrassing story yeah what do you got well I've got a few but I suppose the one that's that can sort of relate to your listeners and you can have a bit of a laugh at was that Jacko was doing a movie with John Travolta I can't quite remember the name of the movie but it was in Los Angeles our son was six my godson Jacko's first adopted child Oscar was six months old and I remember handing the kids over to John Travolta and just taking photos with them and thinking this is the most sort of incredible thing for someone like me who had watched Grease growing

up and just thought that was pretty cool John Travolta was was it well sort of hours later he came to Jacko's trailer and said hey guys we're gonna have a drink tonight it's the last night of filming so Gus why don't you come to my trailer at like 11 Hugh and I'll be back from this shoot that we have to do so I turned up 11 o'clock Jacko and Travolta were in there we're in this beautiful you know sort of his setup was twice as big as Jacko's and the trailer and it was like a horseshoe. And on three bits of the horseshoe was a glass of cranberry juice each, a big Cuban cigar and like a cigar cutter and a Dunhill lighter. Everyone had the same thing, right? So we didn't have to share the lighters or share the cutter or anything. So I sat down in front of one of those

and just started drinking and chatting and think, I can't believe I'm talking to John Travolta, but I'm smoking at the time, the cigar as if it's a cigarette, right? And I'm overexcited and I'm not quite managing my excitement levels and Jacko sort of looks over to me after about 15 or 20 minutes and goes mate you look really white I said yeah I just don't feel 100% you know like that anyway I made two or three steps towards the door and threw up and I threw up like not just the little bit from the cigar like dinner and lunch and the whole bit in Travolta's trailer and of course Aussie mates laugh at each other when we do stuff like that well Travolta was horrified that Jacko was laughing at me and not

helping. So then he turns into this like headmaster going, you need to get Gus sorted out, but then you have to come back, clean out my trailer. So these two sort of Hollywood superstars having this sort of... Fighting over who's going to pick the vomit up. But in such a fun way. And then months later, he came to do the

premiere over here in Sydney. And I walked up to JT and he just went, are you all right? Is everything okay? You're not going to throw up on me anytime soon? It doesn't get cooler, does it, than John Travolta? It certainly gets cooler. JT, JT told me.

I thought you meant Justin Timberlake. Yeah. I think it gets cooler than vomiting on him. Yeah. I mean, you could have held your shit together a little bit better than that. Well, I tried to get to the door and didn't quite get there. And it was like on the ladder on the way in plus the door area. But if you had the option, you could either meet John Travolta,

be in his trailer and vomit or never meet him. I'm sorry, but I'm taking the vomit. But it does. I would vomit everywhere on him. It does scream on his face. If I could. And then have Hugh Jackman clean it up. It does scream a little bit of peer pressure when you're like,

I don't know how to smoke this, but I'm going to pretend like I do. As a grown man. As a grown man with children, smoking the cigar, making out that this is just normal for me to be hanging around, you know, a set in Los Angeles with my best mate and John Travolta, who I'd looked up to all these years. And Jacko had told me great stories about him, how much he had helped him because he's an experienced guy

and Jacko was reasonably new to it. So I was in awe of this guy. And then he was a nice bloke as well. I mean, you guys would have met people in your life, If you go, please be as nice as I hope you're going to be. And John Travolta was that for me. So it was just a double whammy. I mean, I was going to ask you this later on, but we're kind of here now.

How did you meet Hugh Jackman? Like, how did you guys become best friends? Because this isn't like, oh, you know, we both work in media. This is like a childhood friendship. Yeah. So we went to Pimble Public together, which is a little public school in Pimble. My mum went to Pimble. Did she?

But the girls' school. She went to Pimble's ladies' college. She went to the girls' school. Well, a lot of girls from Pimble Public would then go to PLC. So only within a couple of kilometers of each other. So fifth grade, Mrs. Fairbrother, our kindergarten teacher. And I remember her saying, and we were all sort of trying to work out who's who in the zoo.

They said, okay, turn to someone, grab their hand and walk into the classroom. And I turned and got Jacko's hand. And we then went, we did four years together there. Then we did the last two years at Knox Prep. Then we did Knox. Then we did our gap year together. And then he went to UTS and I went to the TAFE college just behind UTS. And he was my best man.

I was his best man, godfather to each other. So he wasn't a big deal, remember, until sort of mid-20s. So I always say to him, pre-Wolverine Friends and Wolverine Friends, they're two different batches. Like before Christ and after Christ. We sort of just loved him before all this stuff. And, of course, he is the same bloke. He is literally the same person as he was even with all the success.

He's just so lovely. Question, because, you know, we talk about this a lot. Jealousy is a real emotion. How do you feel about his friendship with Ryan Reynolds? Okay. Is there a large level of jealousy there? Not a large level, but I would be lying to you to say if there wasn't a little moment where I go, oh, oh, but then I know the two of them and their friendship is doing a whole

lot of good. And obviously it's a fun movie. The other day, Ryan and Jacko rang into my radio show and Ryan said, look, I'm Gus 2.0. There's no way that you can be friends with someone. If you've got a billion dollars and they've got a billion dollars, you can't be friends with someone who doesn't have a billion dollars. So it's a whole different friendship. We can do whatever we want whenever we want.

We can get in a plane. We can buy a plane. We can do whatever we want. You just don't cut it anymore, Gus. You can't be me, Gus. You can't. And you know what he's like. He's just making stuff up.

He's like, you don't own a gin company. I do. Exactly. You don't have a billion dollars. I do. And I'm a massive superstar. So is your mate. So I've taken over.

So we have a lot of fun with it. When I saw him through the filming of Wolverine Deadpool or Deadpool Wolverine, you know, Ryan was so lovely. And the first thing he did was come up and said, look, Jacko loves you. I've got a friend like he does and this is lovely to meet you now and stuff. So we had a big cuddle and that was nice. But there was just, I have like what's up, Jacko, going, what's the story with this guy, you know?

And he's like, mate, I love him, but you're my main man. Yeah, which is nice. I love the way, I mean, getting into what we wanted to talk to you about, which, I mean, we could talk about Hugh Jackman all day long, but it's not him, believe it or not. That's not why we got you here. We'll get Hugh on the podcast. So we've spoken about mental health.

I mean, we speak about mental health all the time. But something I find very interesting in the way that you speak about it is that you call it mental fitness. Can you describe to me what that means to you and why the terminology is something you cared about? Yeah, I think mental health's got a bad rap. As soon as you hear mental health, it takes it to the bottom of the barrel. It makes you think that it's something that's not very positive. So I started using the mental fitness term around in schools. And I saw kids sort of nodding back at me.

I went, oh, okay, this is something because I've got to get into the kids. if the kids start doing it, then they might be able to help mum and dad or their bigger brothers and stuff. So mental fitness for me is a positive term. It's got good energy. And I can also then put to the side, I can give you exercises to get mentally fit, just like I can give you exercises to get physically fit. We can do the same thing with your mental fitness. So then we started the mental fitness gym, and that gives you tips and tricks on how to get mentally fit. This invisible muscle up here, this one in the head, and I'm pointing to my head, everyone, those invisible muscles are so powerful so much more powerful than your legs and your arms and

all these other muscles because your head can stop you doing things or get you to do things that may not be that sensible so let's work on the emotional muscle up here and let's get mentally fit really so you don't worry alone as a general rule we worry alone way too much men in particular we lose seven blokes a day every day we lose two women every day that's nine Aussies that woke up this morning, won't wake up tomorrow morning. And on top of that, 65,000 attempts. So that's one every few minutes. We've been chatting for 10 minutes, two communities, two families, two relationships have been literally life-changing moment because someone had tried to take their life. And by the time we finish this chat, there'll be another 10. So I don't want to

live in Australia like that. It's such a big conversation, but I would be surprised if there is anybody listening to this episode who has not been affected by someone, whether it's within their family or within their close community who has taken their own life absolutely because it and it's but that statistic slaps you straight in the face doesn't it makes you really stop when you say in the time we have been talking in the last 10 minutes there's two people that have taken their life yeah really makes you look at two people have tempted to take their life but seven have died since midnight men and two women yeah so nine Aussies a day every day so just look around wherever you listen to this now if you're listening in the bus just look up and go okay those nine

people not here tomorrow. Those people on the left-hand side of the bus in front of me, they're not here tomorrow. And that's literally the stats. And the stats hit you in the face because you don't quite believe them to start with. I certainly, when I first got told them, I went, that can't be true, but it is. And I don't want to live in an Australia like that. It's also interesting when you say those statistics, because, you know, we often talk about how it's harder for a woman to live, like men have it easier in a lot of ways, but then you look at those statistics and you say, well, seven men are taking their lives versus two women. Why do you think it is so prevalent for men and why it's such an issue that men are

experiencing that that is the only option? Yeah. Traditionally, men have been told to sort of man up and shut up and get on with it and told from a very young age that their emotions are to be just stopped and just get on with it. And that's the way it is. And so I'm trying to tell everyone now it's sort of man up and speak up rather than man up and shut up, which is what we've been told. The numbers are horrific. Of course, three quarters of suicides are men, but most of the people attempting suicide are women. So it's a problem right across our society. Women, and this is all generally speaking, you've got some type of connection where you can go deeper without it feeling like, oh, I'm giving up my soul here. Girls-

Or feeling humiliated. That's right. Where blokes just go, I should be able to handle my own stuff because I've been told all my life. Ads on telly tell me that. The movies tell me that. All these heroes, they're not crying and asking for help. They're just getting on with their stuff. Well, I like the way that you refer to it as mental fitness, as a muscle, because when we think about our body, we think about, oh, we need to stay healthy and fit for our cardiovascular system, for aesthetic reasons, for whatever reason it is, to live longer. The brain is also a muscle that you do need to exercise and work out. And I think leaning into what you just said, women probably do it more without even knowing. Like we get to exercise that muscle every day with the conversations we have with our

friends or our mother, or we're more open to therapy. Traditionally, that's the case. And all I'm saying to guys, you don't have to burst into tears every five minutes or have a deep and meaningful all the time, but have someone in your life that's got you for life. And that can be a professional too. You can fake it till you make it with all your mates if you want, but tell someone what's going on.

Because if you keep all this stuff in your own head, you will end up making a really, really poor decision. And that decision could be a permanent one based on a temporary situation. So that's what Got Your Life is about. And, of course, all the programs we do is about building mental fitness. Kids get it in schools. Corporates get it. Leaders get it.

We just need to get the word out more. Gus, what happened or was there something that happened in your life that made you care about this? Because I think a lot of people are aware of it, but I think it takes something specific to actually care as deeply as you do. I agree. A mate of mine loved him, mentor of mine. And he was my cousin's boyfriend, then my cousin's husband. And my dad had left the family home when I was quite young, so this bloke took on that role.

And I just adored him so much. And every time I needed some help, you know, what do I say to the girl? Should I invite her to the form or what subject should I do at school? I've been dropped to the Bs in footy. I need to make the As. And he was the guy, right? and um many many years later I started working for him I worked for him in America and in the UK and in Australia and I was working for him in the UK when I got the phone call saying that he had

died and then in the same phone call that he had taken his own life I was meant to be best man for a bloke's wedding that afternoon I went to my mate and said I just have to get to Heathrow I need to get on a plane because there's no way my mate would do what he did so I arrived home went to the police said, you need to investigate this. This bloke was good looking, married with three children, status inside of work, status outside of work. He had everything. People like that don't take their own life. And that's when I learned my first lesson and my bubble was burst. This detective put his arm around me and said, mate, it happens all the time. And it doesn't discriminate. It takes people down that you don't expect it to. People that seem to have it all tick all the

boxes. They're the ones we have to worry about. So I went to the funeral, a thousand people at the funeral and of course I'd been out of town in the UK working for him. And I said, every time I spoke to him, he was positive, upbeat. He always had workarounds for every deal that we're trying to chase. He showed no vulnerability whatsoever to me. And everyone said the same thing. He had that mask on so tight. Not even his wife knew. His wife didn't know. He took his own life on the day that his third and final child finished their HSC. So we're here in North Sydney. So Shaw School just down the road. That's where Henry finished his schooling. And he was at the pub having a few beers in the Green Gate at Kalara. And we never saw him alive again.

What do you think of when people talk about suicide? Because people often, I mean, it has so much stigma around being selfish. A good friend of mine grew up without his dad because his dad took his own life. And I think he really struggled with the identity of not being enough for his dad. And people would always say, oh, you've got a child. It's so selfish. How could he ever do that to you what is your opinion of that that's changed over the time I know exactly what your friend would have been thinking I was angry for a long time I used to and I think people said it to him people people would be like you know it was such a selfish thing for him to do to leave you like this yeah and and that's kind of the mentality towards it that he grew up with

for a long time I think a lot of people still feel that way there's no doubt about it that that anger and that feeling of selfishness and so forth until I started speaking to people that had actually tried to take their life and they're still with us. So those conversations I've had are incredibly powerful and emotional. And when I've spoken to people that have tried to take their life, like the moment they let go of the bridge or the moment they took the last sip of grog with a handful of tablets, the moment that it was sort of too late, they regretted it. And that's the thing that's given me great hope. And it made me realize that perhaps he was just so dark he was just so sad he didn't know how to handle it he's it's like putting on

you know like horses put on those what are the blinders yeah the blinders and it's like just because you need to get that gets so narrow and so dark that you don't even see what could be outside your life at the time and when i talk to people that have tried to take their life when they explain to me what they're going through i understand why they want to take their life because that life is shit that life is awful and the thought of living another day in it I understand it. But that's not the reality of what their life actually is. No, it's a place that they go to that they won't always be in that place. And I think in what you said, Laura, a lot of people that do that, it's not a selfish act. In fact,

they truly believe it's unselfish. They believe that the people in their life's life will be better off once they're not there. So I think it's a really hard thing for people to say and reiterate that message to your friend of like how selfish your dad was when And I don't know what he was thinking at that time. And I do think that the sentiment is changing. And I think the more that these conversations are had, it's changing. The understanding around it is changing. But yeah, I do think that a lot of people feel as though it lacks comprehension, especially

when there are kids involved. Absolutely. Just to reiterate the story about exactly that, about feeling people are going to be better off without you. There was a guy that did the Man Up program with me on the ABC, which challenged masculinity and tried to work out why we lose so many blokes. One of the guys in that, I stayed in contact with him after and he explained to me why he tried to take his own life

because he woke up in a hospital bed and the doctor said, your wife and children are here and they want to see you. Like imagine trying to take your own life. You've been unsuccessful. God. You are lying in a hospital bed and your wife and children are outside and you're about to see them. So just think about that for a moment.

and then when he saw them and the cuddles and all that happened, they then left eventually. He lay in bed and he said, I don't think I'm good enough for that family. My wife deserves a better bloke. My kids deserve a better dad. That's why I'm trying to check out because she will eventually find someone else and even though the sadness will end up being less and less, she'll eventually be happier than whatever I can give her.

Then you ask his wife that thought and she's like, what are you what like you're my world you're and you're the kids world like we're a team let's look with the four of us here this is us this is it you know ups and downs good bad days and other days you're totally in love with them like this is it mate we're in this life together we're going through life's ups and downs i don't expect this perfect bs world and i can now say that that's 16 eight years and they're still all together happy and when i catch up with him up on the Gold Coast, he looks at me and goes, fuck, what was I thinking? What was it like, Gus? How did you feel when that happened to your friend? And I'm so sorry that that happened, but was there

a part of you that was like, how did I not see that? How did I not know that someone so close to me was going through that? I think because I was working for him in the UK, I gave myself a bit of a pass on that one because I but however I was like I can't believe he kept it from everyone here at work who knew him well like he'd been there 20 years so people had known him really well he had that on so tight yeah so and that's what that's what men do I won't tell the stories here on this podcast right now but I would have 150 blokes like me who loved someone who took their own life that the night before the day before hours before they were literally having what they would say was such a wonderful time together it's so i mean we've spoken about this concept of

toxic masculinity and this is one part of how it manifests we've just spoken about it quite a bit on the recent episodes around how men don't go and get their general health checkups because they're supposed to just be fine and this has been something that's impacted my world massively my stepdad just passed away from terminal prostate cancer because he never got tested and it's all of these things and they're in isolation they're all massive but then you look at them combined and it's like this idea that men are just supposed to get on with it this is the outcome this is what happens yeah some of them are dying because of things that could have been completely prevented well both situations could be completely prevented you've done an incredible ted talk and i don't

want to butcher the name, is someone you love suffering in silence, here's what to do. This has been quite a viral TED Talk. And I guess the question is here and what we've spoken about, this identifying that someone in your life could be going through this and you would have no idea. How do we know? What do we do? Well, we don't know because as general rule, blokes in particular are really good at making out that everything's awesome when it's not. so to build an emotional muscle and a connection where you can have a warts and all conversation with someone without without any fear of judgment because blokes just don't want to be judged they won't don't want to be told what to do sometimes they've tried to have a conversation it gets shut

down but the wrong person they'll never try that conversation again yeah literally they'll try it once and it might be when they were really little and they're just told on in the park at the playground get up suck it up suck it up don't cry like a girl that's the type of stuff they get so they go, oh, okay. So girls were allowed to cry. I'm not, I won't be an uncomfortable situation. That's how I'm meant to act. And you've got men now that I speak to in their 40s, 50s and 60s that have never asked for help because of that's what they got. So from my point of view, it's like, I've never been more vulnerable with my group of friends. I said the other day, I'm really scared of some decisions that I have to make over the next few months and stuff with various things

going on in my life. And blokes just go, what do you mean? I said, I'm scared stiff. And they're like, but, but you, you, you, you go well, like you're going well, like you've got all this stuff going. I go, mate, I could fuck it up any, any time now. Like we're always on that sort of verge trying our best to do stuff. I'm telling you, and it just makes people feel better talking about the TED talk. I spoke to all these speakers the other day about the TED talk. And I said, I was so frightened the night before. My wife was like, all right, mate, get into bed. Like she was jet lag. She wanted to watch and feel good about it. And I told them how scared I was. And until I got up onto that red dot and I went, oh, I've got it. I've got it. But up until that moment, I had no

idea that I'd got it. And it made people feel better that someone they thought would be handling everything with no dramas was actually going through a human condition. And I think vulnerability in a way is contagious. Like when you open up a conversation and are vulnerable to someone, And you're giving them the okay to do it back, which is why it's so important to take the mask off and be honest, because I can guarantee you the relief a man would feel when another man opens up. Oh my God, thank God I'm not the only person. Like even if that's their internal monologue, their internal monologue might be enough to make a difference that day. That's exactly right. And all it needs is one person be brave enough to go,

this is how I feel. It's hard though, because it depends on the family. It depends on the culture like and I know that in the people that we surround ourselves with absolutely vulnerability is a beautiful thing but vulnerability can also make other people feel uncomfortable and like that's why especially in terms of death we as a society deal with it so badly and I mean for example I have a very good friend when we were at university a friend of ours she passed away and at the time my girlfriend they were in a car together and I remember her saying no one ever brought it up. They pretended like it didn't happen. And then I still think about it every day. I still think about it all the time and people didn't bring it up because they were so

scared about reminding me. And she's like, you can't not remind me. I know. But then, you know, I think it's because we have been conditioned to not want to make people cry. I don't want to make you cry. So I'm just not going to ask. And I guess, how do we get over that hump, the awkwardness around vulnerability? Just by having a go at it, like changing it. Like what we're doing right now is not working. If you did a podcast and no one listened to it, you'd go, okay, we're going to have to change it up here. And I cry on every episode at the moment. But that's fantastic, right? Because you'd be looked upon as a strong woman who's doing well in life, blah, blah, blah. And you're showing true emotion. That's awesome. But at the end of

the day, people say to me, how do I start the conversation? Bumble and fumble your way through it or send them a simple text message just saying, want to have a conversation with you. It's going to be a little bit deep. Don't quite know what to do. Can we go for a walk tomorrow? Rather than having a beer on Saturday at the footy. Let's have a walk together. Do something differently because at the moment, the number one way to die as a young Australian male is suicide. Seven men a day, two women, 65,000 attempts. Stop doing what you're doing and do something different. And if that means you're going to be uncomfortable, well, tough. It's going to have to be uncomfortable. But the more you practice it, it's just like going to the gym. I've lost 40 kilos

four times in 10 years, right? So I'm at the moment on my way back down again, feeling good about life. Three months ago, I walked into the gym. I felt ashamed. My membership wasn't up to scratch. They thought that I'd left. I forgot my towel. I didn't have my bottle. The girl at the front counter is looking at- It was that low point. You've not been here for a while. You didn't even bring a towel. Yeah. Literally, mate, you're having a Barry Crocker. I'm there like that. Now, I walk into the gym and it's like, good day, Susie. How are you going? Good day, Gus. How are you going? What are you going to do today, mate? Going well, brother. It's all that little bit of connection. You're high-fiving on the way in now.

Because I've practiced it, right? So the first person you ask the question about how do you get over this awkwardness, get over it by just going, big, deep breath. I'm going to tell you how I feel. You don't need to fix me. I'm going through some stuff and just blurt it all out. And if you don't want to do that with a friend, do it with a professional. Yeah.

And it's also like on that, Laura, it's awkward for people because the conversations just aren't being had. That's why. Like when someone opens up to you and you don't know what to do, it's because no one's opened up to you before. but if we all start to have those conversations, it's going to get a lot easier. But when you give us those statistics, Gus, are we seeing suicide rates plateau, increase or decrease? We had a slight decrease through COVID, 5.6%. So 170 people less, absolutely. But I think I

worked it out that we had something in common, right? So people just had the same stuff they're going through. We had the same issues, the same dramas, seeing friends, being able to, you know people in victoria compared to people in other parts of the country so we had something that just we went you know what we're all in this together and aussies love that coming out of that the pressure that comes with the finances puts onto the relationship yeah i expected to have an increase we haven't touched wood but well i reckon we're hanging on like it's a cliffhanger at the moment we're literally hanging on for dear life because those numbers at some point when people are under so much pressure are bound to increase but it's all about emotional muscle and working

that emotional muscle, which means we're going to have to start getting uncomfortable. It's interesting what you say about COVID because so many people, I remember the news at the time, everyone was like, it's going to increase. It's going to increase. We're going to have this absolute just, that's going to be the second biggest killer. We've got COVID and then it's going to be people who can't handle the current situation. But you mentioned this idea that we all had something to work towards. We all had this thing in common. Do you think then it's sense of community, its sense of village, its sense of having a shared interest. What do you think is it that's the thread that keeps people feeling as though they have something to be

connected to? Well, when I do my keynote now, it's all about village. So that's what I've taken from what you just said. I think all of that is right, but you just think village is an easy one to think of because I get people to write down a list of the people that they love and adore. Most people have never written that list ever before. You've got them in your head, the people you love, of course, but have you ever written the list of people that you love and then gone to work on, could I do better with that person? I'm probably doing really well with that one. Oh, maybe I should give that person a call. Make those connections if your village is the most important thing in your life, because believe me, work, they can chop you any minute. Life can do all

sorts of stuff to you. Your people, your village are the most important. So for me, having that village around you that knows everything about you, having those warts and all combos without out any fear of judgment, that is the best thing you can do as a human being because you'll go through good and bad together that way. It's something that it gets trickier as you get older. Your network gets smaller. There's some statistic that every seven years you lose half your friends or something. Not lose them in the way we're talking about, but you just lose connection with them. Do you think that there is something to be said around the friendships and working on those connections as we get older? Because I think there's so many people that get

into their 60s and their 70s and they look around and they go, I don't really have many friends i've got family my nana has more friends than me my nana had none and she passed away we just had her funeral god it's been a fucking groom week the funeral last week and it was just me my mom my sister and my auntie yeah and it was because she had dementia and her but which was part of why her world got really small but i do remember her being like family's enough i don't need friends anymore but it made her world tiny probably very unfulfilling yeah well my point of you, it's all about your village and your friendships and, but you need to work on them and people do stuff to you too. And you just like, get so disappointed the way they react to

something or they've let you down or whatever. Most of us just go, okay, that's it. They're not my people anymore. And that's okay. But I would prefer to go back and say, why did you do that to me? I thought we had this connection. I don't understand it. Like I've got WhatsApp groups come out of me yinging. I went to a, I went to a retreat in Bali. Oh, when was it? about a month ago, within three days, I'm like, right, we've got to have a WhatsApp group. This is us, you know, because we had breakfast, lunch, and dinner together. We did treatments together. We did yoga together. We went for walks together. Now we're swapping. Have you been able to get the new recipe for this? Because we want to eat a certain way and we don't want to be eating carbs

and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff. I've built a community, but if I hadn't got all their numbers, it wouldn't have happened. And people go, oh, I wish I had, or I wish I'd taken that phone. just do it yeah you need to make effort we talk about this all the time like at our age when i say our age just adults with busy lives and kids and whatever else you do have to make a conscious effort to keep those relationships in your life because they're not for sure it's different to when you're 22 or you're in uni and you don't have any responsibilities and you got all the time in the world like you do have to make an effort and also like the older you get you get tired you don't want to go out like you're sitting in a lounge you're like i don't want to go and meet

my friends i want to sit in the lounge with my dog and eat ice cream yeah but you do have to Okay, that was personal. Got it. I wasn't talking about myself. I'm with you, though. I mean, Scooby and I love it. Just up on the sofa, beautiful. Is that actually your dog's name?

Scooby? Scooby. Original. I like it. Yeah, she's a girl too. And we've got Winnie too. Cute. And we've got Angus, which was named after me by, it's a long story,

but basically a guy came to Australia because of me, named his dog Angus, lost his job, ended up giving me the dog, and now I've got a dog named after me. Wow. When I'm at the park, people are like, you better be self-made, like, come on. That is very, very funny. But are there any statistics or information around, and I guess this is either from men that have openly talked about depression or maybe attempted suicide, are there any information

about what is the leading cause of attempted suicide and depression? Like, what is the one thing that a man is feeling? And I say that because I wonder if it's economical pressure or I wonder if it's like the person that you spoke about earlier, who says, I just don't feel good enough for my family. What are we looking at? Two main things. You said them both relationships and money, you know, and the fact that you're a failure, the fact that you feel like you haven't stepped up to the plate and done the job that we are meant to do as men, which is provide and make sure everyone's okay and everyone's safe and that sort of stuff. So

they're the two biggest things when it comes to suicide and men in particular find it really hard to be vulnerable enough and talk about that. Every time you do like, okay, I had a men's group the other day, 287 blokes, Avalon Surf Life Saving Club. I had to open up the entire Surf Life Saving Club because we had people coming from everywhere. 287 blokes, one night, Tuesday night, horrible weather. They all turned up. And within five minutes, they're like, oh, he feels the same way as I do. And then, oh, this old bloke says, oh, that's how I've always felt. And I wish I could talk about it. I felt this way when I was 18. Now I'm 76. A 16-year-old boy stood up and said in front of his dad, I've been thinking about killing myself for the last three months.

Oh my God. His dad never heard that before. So we had this moment where 287 blokes, we all came together with the kid and the father in the middle, just having the biggest cuddle. That was the start of the night. Three and a half hours later, everyone's going, oh, I had no idea. I thought I was the only one. I thought I was the only one that didn't quite feel like I was nailing life. And life really is your relationships with your loved ones, your children and so forth, having enough money to go and do things, keeping up with the Joneses, all that jazz, perhaps not being able to do it in bed anymore, all this sort of stuff. And it all just goes in this melting pot and blokes end

up thinking, hmm, I'm no good. So they end up making a permanent decision based on a temporary situation. You go to one of these nights, you realize, oh, it's all right. We're just one part of one big dysfunctional bunch of blokes and that's okay. And you're really good at something and I'm really good at that and you're not so good at that. And we just bumble our lives through together that is what life's about how do you recommend for i mean we have a very large women yeah listener base yeah how do you recommend they have those conversations and you know i had to have this conversation really recently with someone in my life and i had said are you okay not actually expecting the response like it was more he was going through something

and he said no i'm not like i don't have anything to live for i'm not happy and I'm ashamed to say that I was like what do I do like I for someone that has so much information like I have and I talk about this all the time and I was really panicky because I was like okay this is him saying like I really need help and I had a moment where I was like I don't know what to say or do so I just said you know like we talked we did we absolutely I was like I'm here let's do this but is there like a right response you know I'm not a man I don't know what the best response is for that. What do you recommend for the women that are wanting to have those conversations, but not quite sure they don't want to scare them away. They don't want to

push them over the edge. Well, thank you for sharing that by the way. And is your friend okay? For now? Yeah. Yeah. Well, we can talk after this too, because there might be some people that I can help him with. The thing is not to think you have to fix it. You know, like your hubby, if he does open up to you, like you're the luckiest person in the world. If you've got a relationship where the boy says to his lover, you know, wife, partner, whatever, what's going on, you've hit the lottery. Because a lot of blokes love their partners, but they will never have this discussion with them. So that's a huge thing. If a bloke ends up being brave enough to tell you how he feels, then please just listen and don't try to fix. Just say, okay, thank you so

much for telling me. You're not worrying alone anymore. Now we're a team and we're going to work this stuff out together. And that's all you really need to say at that moment. Blokes want to fix things all the time. They don't necessarily are very good listeners. So there's a whole lot going on there. And that's really the discussion between a man and a man when a mate hears it from another mate, but it's when it's your girl partner. Oh, it's just about, okay, thank you for sharing that with me. Now let's get on the road to recovery together and not fixing it, but just saying you're not alone anymore. Worrying alone about things gives us really bad outcomes. Once someone shares it, then everything just gets a bit calmer and then you can get on the road to recovery.

And so what are the next steps to recovery? So obviously we have Gosha for Life, which is an amazing foundation, but like where do people go? We're like, okay, let's do this together. Let's get you help. First stop, GP, mental health program. You know, you basically get that program lined out for you. You get to meet a counsellor.

You get perhaps medication, whatever it might be. There's so many wonderful people out there, but it all starts with your GP. If you know someone and you're loyal to them, that's where you should be. If not, sometimes people go too late. You have to take them straight to the hospital. The first thing you get taught at all the lessons we do, mental health first aid, is you say, are you suicidal? Are you going to kill yourself?

Which seemed to me to be the most ridiculous thing to ask. But it sort of shocks them into, actually, I am. I've actually thought about it. Right. Okay. Well, that can't be you. That needs to go to a hospital and so forth. But they might turn around and say, actually, no, no, no, no.

I'm just really sort of anxious and depressed. Okay. Well, let's go to the doctor and sit down together. But I've been to 200 doctor's appointments with my mates. I don't let them go in by themselves. I get a day off work and I go with them. And then we go and have lunch after that type of thing. So you build it together. So it's not such a big thing. I've had so many people go to that first appointment and drive straight past or sit in the waiting room and then walk out before the doctor comes. It's a really scary thing. Don't let that person

go through it alone. It's like your mental fitness. You're a team now. So I'm so much better with you, us three together. We can handle so much more rather than me just being sent off by you to a doctor. Let's do it together. We're a team now. What about the gaps though? Because I would say that, I mean, the necessity to go to the hospital versus trying to book in to see someone, them not being available when you need it. Like there's so many gaps in the mental health system to be able to service people in their time of need. And there is so much waiting, which I think can be so problematic for someone when they are on the precipice of this, especially if they're not communicating it. Absolutely. I mean, that's why so many fall through the gaps as well. That's

the problem and like probably also why if there is the urgency to it i don't think most people would know that like going to emergency because i think emergency you think i'm having a physical ailment it's a cut or a break or yeah you don't think okay i'm having like a mental emergency this isn't a mental emergency and they will get you a psychologist but you'll be escalated in that environment whereas if you go through okay we'll book in and maybe i've got an appointment in four weeks time kind of feels like you're not prioritized yeah no and that's absolutely true And there's a lot of people, if people come through me, I've got a directory of people that I can, you know, we can jump through so few hoops and so forth.

But as a general rule, if you don't have my number and you can't just say, hey, Gus, I've got a friend of mine that needs help, they go and get some help. It's six weeks time, like you say, or it's like they find a counsellor, but the counsellor doesn't connect with them. Like in Australia, you have to see six counsellors before you find one that you connect with, that you feel the same energy with. You've got to have the money to do that as well. That's right.

And then you've got medication. and might not get the meds right first time around or too much of this and not enough of that. So it's a journey to go on. But if you're going on that journey by yourself, you're less likely to succeed. That's why if you have someone in your corner that you go, well, I've seen that counsellor and that made no sense to me. I never want to see them again. Okay, no worries. I'm now going to book you another one. I'm going to be there the next time you do something. Let's go and talk to the doctor again. Don't let them do it by themselves once they've told you about it. you're a team, you do stuff together. Do you think that there has been an increase in things

like anxiety disorders or people who are struggling with their mental health? Do you think that this is something that is increasing or do you think it is just increasing that we're speaking about it? I think it's increasing, but it's certainly more we're speaking about it. Social media. It's like, if I could, I know we're all on social media here and your show's on social I mean, as mine is, it's just not being used for enough good. But even kids with anxiety disorders, like the number of, and I say this in terms of like people I know who are in their 20s, people who I know who are literally children,

mums who are dealing with children who have anxiety disorders. And, I mean, I'm a mum to very young kids, so this is not a world that I've been in for very long, but I wasn't aware of how prolific it is. And I'm not sure if whether it was diagnosed as frequently in the past or whether we just were like suck it up. You go into school, like school refusal. It's just, it's definitely more literate now.

It's a combo of everything you're saying for sure. And I think that's a good thing that we're now talking about it more and so forth. Identifying it. Yeah, and we've got still a lot of oldies out there. Like I did a chat up in the Gold Coast the other day and I could just tell about halfway through my chat that they weren't connecting with me at all on it.

So I had to change tact and I said, okay, let's not, because they're all sit there, say young people today, you know, they're soft, they've got it all too easy. Back in my day, they started having those combos. I said, okay, so let's say at Christmas time, your uncle or Harry, Uncle Harry's over there. So do you want a young person to walk in at Christmas and go, oh, I can't wait to get Uncle Harry by himself because I want to get his advice on something? Or do you want them to walk in and say, oh, Uncle Harry, there's that old bugger that

I'd never talk to him about my feelings because he would never understand. Which Uncle Harry do you want to be? They all go, well, I want to be the guy that gives advice. I've been on this world a while. I've got, I know some stuff. Well, at the moment, none of those young people are coming to you because you think that it's off do you think you don't have the world is a different place to the place you grew up with these young kids are growing up in a different world you cannot talk to them you cannot educate

them teach them the way that we were taught because the world's different simply because what we've got all around us now somewhere we'd have our phones you've guys got i'm sitting on mine yeah it's always there you like the vibration there's so many good so much good that comes with that connection but it's not the right type of connection and i was talking about this to someone the other day actually she is very very wealthy has a wonderful life their husband and wife still together family's incredible the daughter gets everything that she could possibly need goes to a wonderful school and she was saying to me my she's 11 she's like my daughter is on anxiety medication she's like i do not get it there yeah and she's like obviously i'm she's on the

medication because i'm looking after her but she's like it is beyond me like she could want for nothing. Well, no, the point is life has changed. It comes down to things like social media. And when we say social media can be a wonderful thing, I do agree with you, Gus, it's not used for quite the right thing. And for an 11 year old, it's a very dangerous place. We didn't have that when we were 11. That's right. Your friend saying she could want for nothing. There's something she wants she's not getting. And it may not be the latest gadget, the latest this and the school and the this and the nice car dropping them off and the beautiful holiday look forward to she may need something completely different that 11 year old girl she needs maybe a bit more i don't know and

i'm throwing it out there just time with mom and dad without the phone going and the thing and the this and the next thing to be organized maybe just sitting going for a walk that might be what she actually wants well i mean the point is is that you can't be going and throwing your life opinions and your life experiences on to the next generation the worst thing a parent can say is like back in my day. This is what used to happen. Oh, my mom used to say it all the time. She goes, I had to walk to school through four meters of grass. You can walk to school too. And I was like, okay, mom. But honestly, this world is so different to everyone else. You just got to sit there and go, okay, what are you going through? And listen, my parents are terrible

at listening. We're just really good at telling this is what we need to happen, blah, blah, blah, just sitting down and having a conversation where it goes both ways. It's so interesting you say that because I find like the times where I get the most information out of especially Marley because she's old enough to have a conversation with me is at night time we're going to bed and we've got time to be calm and I'll lay down in bed next to her and that's when all the stuff comes out that's when the bad bits of the day comes out that's when she talks to me about you know one of the boys that was mean to her or something that happened at school and she's had it bottled up all day yeah but it's been so quick and everything's moved

from dinner to bath to like that she hasn't had the moment to say like oh mommy this made me sad today or how she felt about it. You created the connection point, the moment for her to feel safe enough to talk about it at bedtime. And she might have even at her young age now, okay, that's the time I'm going to tell mum. We can talk about these things. But let's say you're away with the show or you're away doing something else. You're not there and something happens. You want to build a relationship with her where you can FaceTime and you go, mum, I need to talk to you about something. And that'll come. But now she's got that one safe place. That is brilliant. Most of are so busy, we miss all these little connection points. And it gets to the point, we had 153,000

school kids go through our programs last year. It's a lot of kids. 73% said that they cannot talk to their mum and dad about the stuff that's truly going on because they go home and there's a little moment and then dad will have phone will ring or mum will say, oh, I've got no time for this. There's a drama. There's a situation. The moment is lost. And they never talk about it Again, the mums and dads, if they were told, your kid's about to tell you something really important, of course the parent will go, I'm not picking the phone up, I'm not worrying about anything.

Yes, you've got my full attention, but we never have that moment, right? It's never perfect. So the moment gets lost. And they would be horrified as parents to know that they've missed those times. And then, of course, it builds and builds and builds in someone's tummy to the point where it becomes anxiousness, depression, or God help us, something to do around suicide. what do you think like attitude wise needs to change attitude towards modern masculinity

it's tough at the moment for a lot of young blokes out there they don't quite know what their role is is rightly so there's been a complete change i 100 agree with that i got a 24 year old son who's a teacher over in london at the moment i talk to him all the time but just being a decent kind human being like you just know what the right thing to do is and that might mean you miss a few things that might mean things don't quite happen for you, but you can just live with yourself for being a decent person. I reckon that is what it's all about, but it's a tricky one. But for most parents, just bringing up kind children, that's a hard thing to do, but that's what we're all striving for. Do you know what I would love more men to know? And I have said this

over and over on this podcast, but I think a big part of men not wanting to be vulnerable with their friends female friends partners is because they think it makes them less masculine and they think that that vulnerability or crying is embarrassing I can't tell you how much I love a man that cries I love a man that is open with his emotions it gobsmacks me when a man's like I don't want to embarrass you I'm so sorry I'm crying and I'm like are you kidding me like this is you've gone up in my world because you're you feel like you're in a place where you're able to talk and I think it's more men knew that women do not have a problem with being vulnerable like it's actually attraction it's the opposite of what we think it's hot yeah that cry so cry to me

if you cry to me and I will you wet your tears and I will wear whatever I'm engaged to a lovely man but I love when Ben cries no but I agree with you I did this speed dating even though I've been married for 30 years nearly coming up when I did the man up program But the girls didn't know that. There was probably about, there's 10 of us, nine blokes that looked like your husband. I've seen your fiancé, sorry. Yeah, he's hot.

He's a good-looking guy. But generic, apparently. Well, you know, that type. There's nine of them that look the same. Benny's not generic. No, you know what I mean. He's a good-looking guy. And I was by far the plainest of the 10, right, and the oldest.

And married. And married, but they didn't know that. The girls didn't know that. So we did the speed dating. I think we had five minutes each, blah, blah, blah. Then we had a dinner and at the end of the night, the girls wrote down who they wanted to date with. All 10 wanted to date with me.

Well, maybe you're not so plain Jane, Gus. The reason why is because I was vulnerable and I showed my true emotions and I was honest because I wasn't trying to find a second date. I wasn't trying to take them home that night, whatever it might be. I came from a place of just, I'm just going to be myself. And when the guys that looked like your fiance coming up to the end and going, hey, what's going on here like i got like three dates and look at me and look at you and i just said to the mate the greatest little snip bit that i can give you is you don't need to make out that everything's

awesome puff your chest out just be vulnerable girls love it and do not apologize for when you cry like the first thing people do like thank god we've all cried today we haven't apologized to each other which is great laura cried four times this morning and said sorry each time and i said stop apologizing. Because I was blubbering. It's a bit different. No, it's not. It's like apologizing for you being a human being. I can tell. I've met you the first time today. I can tell that you are just so, you're strong, you're independent, but you are a human bloody being and that is your attraction, right? So allow yourself to be that. It's such an interesting thing. And I mean, it's a thing that I think a lot of people learn with age, but not everyone. I used to think that

crying was weak, right? And that's, I think a lot of people think that. And I'm going back, I said this before on the podcast, but if you haven't heard it, like going back to when we did The Bachelor a million years ago, I was like, I'm never going to cry. I'm not going to cry because people who are watching this are going to think I'm pathetic. So I was so steadfast. And then it was almost the opposite because I, and I felt all the things I just did it not on camera did it to myself you know I cried at night time but I was always very stoic and it was because I was so frightened of embarrassing and humiliating myself but watching it back I was like no I come across as cold and then it really changed my opinion around what and how people are

perceived because I was like well if you're if you're strong and you're stoic you're perceived as though you aren't affected by something and you don't need help and everyone thinks you're fine and I was so not fine yeah and to me there was such a level of how disingenuous it was to how I was actually feeling now I cry all the time well and that's great because and there's strength in that I think it's an absolute lubrication you heard it here first everyone vulnerability is hot it is and I tell you and you girls the way that you are and the strength that you have in this podcast if you at one point just did that just spoke about that being vulnerability is a strength vulnerability is awesome, vulnerability is hot, whatever you want to call it, that would

do us the world of good. You know, we've probably just created a new wave of monsters, men that just have heard this podcast and they just turn up at a date and cry. Like they put their drops in. They're like, I've got this. I know how to get a panties off. Sorry, I'm just healing at the moment. Just give me a moment.

And everyone's like, let's just go home to my house and talk. It's why we all love the broken bird, right? That was me back in the day anyway. The only other thing I wanted to ask, because it was a term I hadn't heard and producer Sakisha wrote it down, The Second Mountain. What does this mean to you? Yeah, it's a fantastic book that's out there and I must have bought it 20 times for 20 different people and sent it to them all around the world.

It's basically, you know, you feel like you've made it or you feel like your life is like, okay, I'm really comfy and life is really good. So it's a bit like walking up a mountain. You think, oh, that's the peak and then you get to the peak and you go, oh. There's another one. There's another one, you know, and it's the second mountain and the second mountain is actually the one.

That's the one that you're meant to be. So everything that's got you to that first mountain that you think is what it's all about, the success and the celebrity or the money or whatever it might be, oh no, my real destiny is this one over here. And I'm going to take everything that I've learned to get to where I thought I was meant to be and go to that next bit. And that basically takes all your ego out. It makes you realize that you're just a human being and you're actually on this earth for

not a very long time. And you need to make sure that you leave it in a better place than where you started. And for me, Gotcha for Life was my second mountain. You know, I was 38 years of age. I was a salesman. I got, Jacko and I came up with this idea for this ridiculous cricket show where I'd travel around the world following the Australian cricketers. We somehow did 20 odd episodes, three different shows.

And then I ended up on Breakfast Radio. My first gig ever was Breakfast Radio Triple M. And I'm thinking, well, here I am. I'm sorry, people don't just end up on Breakfast Radio. Like you're obviously a very talented man to have just fallen into that. Well, I did an Aussie Goes Barmy, an Aussie Goes Bolly, which was in India, and an Aussie Goes Calypso in the West Indies. And I was promoting an Aussie Goes Calypso on Triple M in Melbourne on their brekkie

show. And the boss was in a cab between the airport and the radio station. And he turns up and goes, this guy can tell a story. We did a new breakfast show in Sydney. And that's how that all started. That was 2009. I'm still on Triple M now. But in 2016, when I did Man Up and then I started Gotcha for Life, like we've raised

20 million dollars now it's amazing not a cent that's incredible not a cent from the government so that's mums and dads fives tens and twenties going I believe in what you're doing this is going to help me you know I want to prevent someone else going through what I'm going through that's what it's all about right we're eight years in my wife and I do it together like it's just the most extraordinary thing that we've found ourselves in and I don't want to do anything else and that's my second mountain so that's what I'm actually here for all the other stuff was like a bit of a bit of a dress rehearsal. It was a bit fun though at the start. Oh mate don't worry I still I still need the balance of radio and and having like lovely mornings with you guys

here because you know I'm going to a thing at lunch today which will be very difficult very emotional so I need the balance in my life. You need to be able to have the laughs and the light with the heavy. Yeah like I sometimes I come into Triple M in the afternoons and I'm like I walk straight into our producers meeting and I go guys you need to help me today. Yeah. And that means to them. I don't need to go into it. They just know that I've had a very emotional day and I'm going to need a bit of warming up, you know, because this is nonsense compared to what I've just left, which was sadness and trauma and all that. So they're like, we've got you big man, we've got you big man. Everyone gets up and we hug each other. Within half an hour, do a couple

of pre-records, you know, go and have a coffee and I'm back with my team again. I feel great. But if I went, no, I've just got to be stoic here and I'd muck it up. That vulnerability is really important. And then you also work out who your people are. Cause I can't do to have that conversation if they weren't my people. Cause they'd go, mate, just suck it up. We're all got jobs to do. Like you're meant to be on drive radio. So just do your job. The fact that I can say that to the producers of my team and they rally, well, it means that we've done something to build the right culture. And that's, that's what I do a lot with corporates now, because you need to build the culture to make sure people can be human.

Gosh, you're a wonderful man doing wonderful things. And please let us know what else people can be doing or where we can find more information well if you go to gotcha for life.org it's got all that stuff there we've got the mental fitness gym which is no mirrors no fees no weights it basically gives you daily little ticks and tricks to get to work on this invisible emotional muscle that we're talking about before but you know there's simple things you can do on a weekly basis which is like a check-in tuesday so my particular socials it goes out to people but I do it to well Keisha's right here your producer here I send her this maybe every second or third because I've got a group of people that I've tried to look after and I just say to keep you know what

are you out of 10 today simple as that and she's like I'm looking fire flame some days it's a seven some weeks is a three some weeks is higher than that and I'm like if it's anything under a seven then it's a follow-up okay what can I do a lot of people just the fact that I got your text it's given me another, I've gone from a six to a seven. Someone thinking about me, someone caring about me because we're all out here in this big wide world alone a lot of the time. And it's nice to have a bit of unsolicited love. So check in. So put it in your diaries, everyone listening. A certain day, it doesn't have to be a Tuesday, but I do a Tuesday at lunchtime before you go and buy your lunch or whatever, before you sit down or as you're doing it, text 10 mates saying, give yourself a

mark out of 10. How are you going today? I'm a blah, blah, blah. You do. Seven's fine. Five, whatever your village is, but whatever it is, let them know that you're thinking about them. Unsolicited love is key. And so easy to send a text, right? We've always got our phones with us that you just don't know what that might do to someone to get a bit of unsolicited love, a little text to go, oh, that's so lovely. And they're going through a bit of a tough time. Hopefully they might say, actually, they'll be honest with you. And so I'm a three out of 10. And then you ring them up, you FaceTime them. I'm here for you.

What can I do? Whatever it might be. You know, I'm a part of this now. Just having those. We're so good in Australia talking about having great mates and stuff. It's BS. We've got to be better. We've got to go from sort of mates to being really proper friends.

Yeah, get up in their grill. Just going and watching the game and having a few beers, of course, that's a part of it. Having a family barbecue, I get it. But to have your village, your most important people, knowing that they can talk to you about anything, warts and all, no judgment. that's what a good human being is about and you need to work on it just like your physical fitness

to get mentally fit you need to work at it will not come by just sending the odd text to you now you have to live it well everything that gus has just said then all the links are in the show notes so if you want to go and find the foundation or his ted talks just go check our podcast show notes thank you so much it's a pleasure it was greatly love to meet you both thank you We'll be right back.