Life Uncut - How to Manage a Break Up & Why You Seem to be Dating the Same Person Over and Over- Uncut with Jillian Turecki

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

How the f*ck do you move on when you're in the depths of a relationship? Today's episode is with the incredible Jillian Turecki! Jillian Turecki is a certified relationship coach, teacher and writer. She has helped thousands of people be better in their relationships, including the relationship you have with yourself, and has helped just as many people manage the aftermath of a relationship breakdown. We ask for Jillian's advice on: How to know whether you should break up with your partner How do I know if it's just a normal relationship lull or if it's actually the end of the relationship? Do you know when you've found 'the one'?  Are break ups always devastating or are they an opportunity? When it's actually not them, it's you. You're the problem Patterns in your dating and relationships You can find more from Jillian on her website and on her Instagram We did an episode on break ups back in 2020! You can listen here! Another episode that we did on break ups with Alexis Fernandez on break ups is here! You can watch us on Youtube If you have an question please send it on it to life uncut podcast on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Darug Walamutta land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany and today we're speaking to somebody that I have followed in the online world for a very long time. Her name is Jillian Turecki. She has 1.9 million Instagram followers and I am just one of them. She's a certified relationship coach, a teacher and a writer and she's helped thousands of people better their relationships including the relationship that you have with

yourself. Today we're going to be speaking about breakups. We wanted to do like one little episode that was a breakup bible and I knew Jillian was right because I found her myself a few years ago when I went through my breakup and I was trawling the internet for some sort of quote. So deeply trying to find just an Instagram quote that might reflect the way you're feeling at the time. Which is funny because I've never been. I'm the Instagram quota. Yeah. I'm not that kind of person that when I'm going through something, I've never been the person that has gone to the internet for resources that my breakup, you guys remember it was really hard for me. And it was, it was at the point where I was like, fuck, I need some sort of inspirational quote.

Where do you go if not to Instagram for people to give you random quotes as to how to fix things. and I just loved her like I find her so easy and relatable and the way she speaks about things I don't feel like she's adding any extra spice to it I think she's just really honest with her answers and the advice she gives you which I really loved and it's refreshing from all the overwhelming amounts of self-help that's on the internet well this episode is a very long time coming I mean you guys might know I think it was four years ago now we did an episode not long it's literally it was our, it was in our first year of doing podcasting. We did a whole episode all around breaking up, breakups, the breakup Bible. I think we called it. You can go back and have a listen

to that. And that was like a very tactical resource on how to navigate those very initial stages of a breakup, like going no contact, like how do you manage and deal with the very big feelings of what a breakup can bring. But this was talking about relationships and in Ask Uncut every week, people messaging us saying, how do I know whether I should break up with my partner because of X, Y, Z? How do I know whether it's just a normal relationship lull or whether it's actually the end of the relationship? These are all questions that we asked Jillian, who has so much understanding in the way that relationships work. And her answers to some of these questions, I think was really enlightening and also different to how maybe I would have interpreted it prior to

doing the self-work and really like understanding and unpacking how we show up in relationships. And I think the biggest thing I took from this is that often when we are in a point in a relationship where things aren't great, we often project what is the other person not providing for us. And Jillian in this episode talks so much about what we are doing that impacts our own relationships. So if you're going through a breakup or you know somebody who is struggling in a very, very difficult part of their relationship, this could very well be the episode for them.

I'm so excited to welcome you to the podcast today, Jillian Cherecki. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Jillian, you've had a bit of time now to think about this. We did try and do this recording the other week and we had some technology issues from across the world, but you've now had time to think about what your accidentally unfiltered story is,

your most embarrassing story, what has happened to you in your life that you just modified by. Can you share that with us? Sure. I mean, it's more a story of humiliation. So many years ago, over 10 years ago, I got divorced and the way that it happened was that, you know, my husband broke up with me over

the phone and my mom was dying of lung cancer and I was having a miscarriage that morning. Yeah. Oh my God. That's a crazy story, but I felt very humiliated by that. So I, it's not like some fun, like, yeah, I got drunk and said something stupid. This is like a very humiliating moment for me. Not that it should have been humiliating, but I think that when you're left like that and you feel abandoned and your marriage is ending, you know, everyone thought that you were like the best couple. There's a humiliation that comes with that. And there's just a humiliation with just not being honored in any way, you know, through the process of a breakup. But, you know, I turned all of that into really turbo powered lemonade. So I think that it's a it's an interesting story because sometimes our most embarrassing moments, the moments that are like, like I said, humiliating are the moments that also if you look at it differently and if you change its meaning and you see it from a different perspective or rather from a broader perspective of how how that event sort of fits into the tapestry of your life, then it's no longer like, I don't feel

humiliated by that moment anymore. But I remember experiencing deep humiliation during that time. Was this the end of this relationship prior to you getting into the work that you do now? Was this like the catalyst for that? Yeah. So I had been teaching yoga for over a decade before that happened. So for over 20 years, I've been helping people heal pain, like heal emotional pain. And so I worked with people on their bodies and the mind body connection, and mindfulness and self awareness. And I would help listen to people and their problems in their relationships. And I always felt like, not always, I love teaching yoga, but then I reached a point where I felt like I wanted more, but I didn't know what that more was. I just felt like there

was another plan for me. And I just didn't know what that looked like. And I had gotten married. So I thought that I, you know, there was a part of me that wanted to go to like have the family, the traditional family marriage route. And then there was another part of me that just felt stuck. And so when everything went down, the dissolution of my marriage, which was so incredibly painful for me because, you know, I had this belief system when I entered the marriage, you know, that I wouldn't be one of those divorced people. Like I'm never going to get divorced. I'm self-aware. I've done work on myself. This is going to be a marriage that lasts. And I just, when it ended, you know, it was compounded by the fact that my mom was dying

of lung cancer so it was a real dark night of the soul but when it ended I just was like I was so devastated and humiliated by it I was humiliated by because I thought I equated if this didn't last and this ended I'm a failure like I'm fucked up something is wrong with me and so I became obsessed with initially I became obsessed with just feeling better because when you are going through such a hard time, you're in survival mode. So the only thing that you really want to focus on is how can I claw myself out of this hell that I am in? And with wanting to feel better, I also became completely obsessed with what makes a relationship work. I saw my friends and students over the years just totally mess up their relationships.

and I've also seen good relationships and I just, my sisters were in good marriages. And so I really needed to figure this out. And so I became obsessed with number one, helping myself come out of this experience alive, and then also how to help people in that. So that started the whole journey of looking into relationships, relational dynamics, relationship with self, how to turn, how to survive a trauma and then how to love better. And that's so yes, long answer, but that was the catalyst. When you went through this, and I didn't know this part of your backstory as to how you got into your relationship work, but when you have so much of your identity wrapped up in people thinking that your relationship is wonderful I think so many of us can put on a facade and then

not even talk about not acknowledge or want people to think that our relationship is perfect and when it's crumbling around you and it's almost like the veil has come down how did you deal with that identity shift within your friendship groups as well well you know I mean lucky enough my close friends like they had my back you know and so that was really a wonderful learning to go through that and to really know who your closest friends are. I think it was more like not my closest friends. It's almost like the people who project it, you know, as a yoga teacher,

it was an interesting experience because a lot of people will project perfection onto you. Like somehow like you're a guru, you know better, you're this, you're that. And it's all ridiculous. It's just also society standards. It's like, oh, wow. I didn't make it work out. And my friends all had my back. But I wouldn't say that it was, well, there's the identity crisis of transitioning from being someone's wife to then being single again, which is an identity crisis that people go through after every breakup, you know, being someone's significant other to being single again.

I think it was just more like I was concerned about how people would view me. I just didn't want to be like, quote unquote, fucked up. And I was afraid that I was because I thought, you know, this didn't work. Then clearly I'm really messed up. So I had all these false narratives that were that I was drowning in. and so part of my recovery from that was to challenge some of the beliefs that I had that were making the situation worse for me. I really love that you're accidentally unfiltered your embarrassing story was one that wasn't funny you were the first person in five years

to have brought uh and I've never thought about it like that I've never we always ask embarrassing stories and always someone always has to think of the funniest thing to happen to them but it's so relatable what you just said because everybody that goes through a breakup especially if you're the one that's broken up with and that choice is taken from you is a feeling of shame and embarrassment and I don't know why that is I don't know if that's an internalized feeling of rejection that you're not wanted or if it's external and it's what are people going to think do I not look desirable do someone think I'm going to think I'm crazy and I find it really fascinating because we I mean we're going to speak about breakups today but it leads me into

the question, how do you know you found the one or what are your beliefs surrounding the one? Well, I don't really believe in the one at all. I think that there are many possible ones. So for example, there was the one for me when I was 17 and there was the one for me when I was 25 and there was a one for me when I was 35. And so, you know, we find many of the ones and I think it depends on where you are and the stage of life that you're in. I really do believe that ultimately we have to choose who the one will be. We have to choose to love an imperfect person as well as we possibly can. So I think it comes down to a choice. And the decision to spend your life with someone, like who you decide to share your life with, is one of the most important decisions you will ever

make. In fact, I think that if we were to take all the important decisions that we've made in life and we were to combine them, none of them would really add up to the choice that we make when it comes to who we spend our life with. Choosing someone to partner with is, of course, an emotional choice, right? It's like, who do we feel the most love towards? Who are we most attracted to? Who do we feel the best around? But I think that when it comes to long-term partnership, it really also need some practicality and some wisdom. I think that people need to start with understanding who's definitely not the one. Yeah. Yeah. Let's rule out the red flags first. I mean, yes. Isn't it? Because I think most, I talk about myself in this when I say most people,

maybe I'm speaking from my own experiences, but often I would think about the way that it made me feel. How do I feel about that person rather than what are the things that that person's actually doing to show that they are a good partner or that they're invested in the relationship I'd be like but if I feel this much surely they have to be the one because yes it's too big to make sense of you're like they're cheating on me but I feel good with him I was like but my love for him is so overwhelming that it has to be and it's only been through I mean the many years that we've done this podcast and many years of these conversations but I'm like that is a terrible indicator for the one but that was my benchmark for it for so many years and most people as

opposed to, do we understand each other? Like, do we really get each other? Are we looking in the same direction in life? You know, like, do we have common goals of where we want to, how we want to live our lives? Do we share important values? Do we feel safe around each other? Do I feel like this person, no matter what, is going to have my back and vice versa? And these are the things that many people including myself once upon a time don't really consider they just consider their big feelings like you said what are your feelings on the difference between emotions and feelings you know exactly going back to what Laura said I think about them all the time I want to text them a hundred times a day they must be the one what's your interpretation of that well what I

will say is this the only reason why anybody would want a relationship is to actually magnify by positive feelings and emotions. Like people think, you know, I was having a conversation with a friend. She's like, oh, I thought people want to get into a relationship because they don't want to be alone. Well, yeah, some people are motivated by that. But most of the time, what people are motivated by is that they think that their lives are going to be better as a result of being in a relationship. So we are always as human beings in pursuit of happiness. We're always in pursuit of feeling more positivity. And we think that in a relationship, that's what it's going to give us. And the reality is it should, but it's not, you know, we have to do our part.

You know, no one is coming into our lives to rescue us from negative emotion. No one is coming into our lives to rescue us from our stress and our problems. Like that's what I'm saying, that it is an emotional choice, right? Like I feel so good about this person, or I'm on top of the world when I'm with this person, which is great. But have you stuck around long enough to uncover this person's character and their values? Like I said, whether or not they actually truly get you and you get them. So we're motivated by emotion. We don't want to feel pain. We want to feel better. And so people seek out relationship because they want to magnify that feeling of oneness. You know, the one comes from this idea that everybody's subconscious is actually searching

for a sense of completion, that sense of oneness. This is something that's been talked about in ancient scriptures for centuries, that we feel that sense of oneness when we are in nature, or we'll feel that sense of oneness when we meet our baby for the first time if you're having a baby, or we feel that sense of oneness maybe with a pet. Or like a lot of times people will experience like, why do people do psychedelics or do drugs? Because they're trying to feel some sort of connection to God if they believe in God to some sort of wholeness, regardless of what your spiritual beliefs are or are not. And so we are all walking through life wanting that so badly. And when we fall in love, we have that

experience of oneness. We have that experience of when we're at our favorite concert, listening to our favorite song and our eyes are closed and we're in the present moment and we feel so plugged in. That's what falling in love is. And so, of course, it's addictive because we're all looking for oneness. But what we don't realize is that that is something that we find within ourselves. It's not something that we find in another person. Now, someone else can, the whole point of a relationship, I don't understand why anyone would want to be a relationship if it doesn't make your life better. Now that doesn't mean that if you're in it for the long haul, you're going to go through rough times and there's going to be obstacles, but overall it should make your life

better. Do you think we kind of think more about like the potential or the hope that it's going to get to the next place? Like even if you're not there in a relationship, one person or both of you might be like, oh, well, once we just get over this hump, it'll be great. And then once we just get past this thing it's going to be great you always have these like arbitrary milestones in mind for where you could push the relationship to and then you'll reach nirvana like it's always just a little bit out of reach for some people yeah for some look for some people they're in the wrong relationship and for others they need to learn how to make their relationship better because it actually is the right relationship but they don't have the skills to make it as good as

it needs to be. And so they need to learn those skills. And that can be a difficult thing to decipher, but certainly you don't want to fall in love with someone's potential. I think it's very important to love someone for where they are and who they are now today as if they would never change. One of the most common questions we get is how do you know when it's right to walk away from that relationship? So how do you differentiate between we've grown apart and we're now different people to this is a normal part of the ebb and flow of a long-term relationship that I need to work in yeah it's the million dollar question there's no one answer for this and I know that people want to know that but there's no one answer I think there's a few answers what

have you actually like I would want to know like what have you actually been doing to try to make it work out you know have you had the right help do you know what your partner's needs are and have you been meeting those needs? Have you expressed what your needs are and how they can better meet your needs? Like, have you had these conversations? Because a lot of people, because they don't have the tools or the skills, they don't know how to make the relationship better. They don't know the strategy, right? If I were working with someone, I would want to know first what they have done to try to make it work and to see if I can offer some other things specifically around core needs. Another answer is, you know, there's some people who just feel it in their body that

the relationship that they're in is wrong and or it's run its course and that it's just they feel it so strongly in their body. And if you do, you have to listen to that. And then there are people who have just grown in different directions and you have to not stay married for the sake of staying married, not staying in the relationship for the sake of staying in the relationship. I think that if it's a relationship that has,

there isn't any mistreatment or abuse or glaring red flags, and it's someone with whom you've dedicated a large portion of your life, and especially if you've kids, I think you have to do what it takes to kind of leave no stone unturned, to really figure it out. But at the end of the day, I think that it behooves everyone to turn the lens back on them and to ask themselves, how have I been showing up in this relationship? Because we tend to

hyper-focus on what we're not getting from the other person. And rarely do people have the awareness to ask themselves, what have I not been giving? Could it be that if I stepped up and showed up as the person who I really want to show up in a relationship, things could change? So no easy answer there. Jillian, we talk so much, especially in this, I mean, we're looking at this from the side of when you're making that decision or you're in a relationship that maybe isn't a great one but I think rarely is there the tools around like how do you break up in a way that's kind and respectful and loving as well what would be your advice for someone who is at a point where they don't want to be in the relationship anymore but they physically don't know how to go

about actually ending the relationship because I would say that there's probably a good way to do it in a terrible way as we've all experienced probably not ending it when you're going through a miscarriage via text. Yes. You don't break up with someone via text unless you're in some sort of dangerous, unusual circumstance. But it can be paralyzing for some people to even think, well, how am I going to do this? The breaking up is just as hard as being broken up with. How do people go about it? Well, the reality is, particularly for long-term relationships, there usually isn't just one breakup talk. Sometimes, you know, a breakup extends over many months, you're talking about it. Some breakup conversations are a series of many

conversations over a year. Every breakup story is unique and different. But generally speaking, when you break up with someone, this would be considered one of the hard conversations and maybe one of the hardest conversations. And with every hard conversation, you have to lead with love and lead with vulnerability and lead with telling the truth. You know, I don't recommend saying, it's me, it's not you, because that's a very vague thing. Tell the truth. People don't end relationships where their needs are being met. They just don't. But it takes two to tango, right? Unless you're talking about an abusive situation, it takes two to tango. And so I think it's just about being honest to backtrack. Absolutely, one should take accountability

and not blame the other person. So you don't want to say it's not you, it's me. And you also don't want to say it's you, not me. You just say your experience, you tell the truth of what you're feeling. And it's very hard because if you're doing that with someone who doesn't want the end of the relationship and it's hurtful, this is not easy, but you can't be a coward and do it via a text unless it's some extenuating circumstance. But I also think, I mean, having been the breaker and been on the receiving end of a breakup, I genuinely think that whilst it is more hurtful to hear the truth, it's overall easier. If somebody says, I just don't love you, you can't do anything with that. Like that hurts, but you're like, well, I can't change your mind.

I can't fight for this I can't give you the reasons why you should love me I mean you can try and do that but they're not going to whereas if they're such a coward and they say it's just me I've got to figure some stuff out that makes you want to hold on it makes you be like well I'll be here you know what can I do whereas if someone's like it's it's over I don't have feelings for you anymore I don't love you you're like cool I'm gonna have to go and start my healing journey because there's nothing I can do so I think there's so much power in just just ripping the band-aid off yes and telling the truth and not leaving the person guessing and I think that you know being willing to answer questions is really important like if the person has questions like

what change and just being willing to answer those questions so the person has as much closure around it as they possibly can I think that's the kind thing to do what do you think about the idea of the grass is always greener when people are have been in a relationship for a little while and they find themselves thinking of other people wondering if a relationship could be better wondering if sex could be better what sex is like with someone else what it's like to kiss somebody else having those fantasies knowing that nothing is wrong with their relationship do you think that is indicative of normal characteristics in a relationship and just being normal humans or do you think having any sort of outside thoughts is leaning more towards you're the wrong person

no I mean you're gonna have sorry I know it's uncomfortable but you're going you know people are going to have those thoughts. I think that there's a difference between having those thoughts and letting those thoughts sort of infiltrate your life and your marriage or your relationship. But yeah, you're going to have those thoughts. And I think they're normal. I think it's normal to feel attraction for people outside of your relationship. But I think at the end of the day, you make the choice to invest in the person who you're with, because with wisdom comes the understanding that even if you were to leave your partner for that other person who you're attracted to in time, the same thing's just going to happen with them, you know, or that like

romp in the hay, like at the end of the day, it's not worth it. What's worth it is, is your current partner. I think that if you're having those thoughts and they're just like infiltrating you, you know, like they, you can't stop obsessing about someone that's very different. And it's a sign that something is wrong in the relationship, typically. Do you think people can compartmentalize their relationships though? The reason why I ask this is because Britt, you said something the other day. Oh God, here we go. Well, we were talking about like in terms of like being sexual with your partner and a guy might be like, well, I don't want to do that with you because you're wife material to me. So I've like put you in this box, but I'll do that with her because to her,

that means something different to me. Yeah. Freud called that the Madonna horror complex. yeah okay so I didn't realize that this was a whole thing but more so in terms of like when we say you know that you might have these feelings or whatever and I guess this pertains mostly to cheating this idea but like you can compartmentalize your relationship is here I'm happy in my relationship everything's great but I had these other things that I desire need or want and does it still mean that there is like a deep issue in the relationship because I guess for anyone who's experienced cheating extramarital affairs anything like this often it is like I love you. There's nothing wrong with our relationship. I just had this need over here that wasn't being

met. And the two can be kind of separated in the way it's talked about. So that need that's not being met is the need for passion and excitement. Because what happens is that without being conscious and aware of this, long-term relationships, things get very certain and comfortable. So what happens is that a lot of people who have affairs, they don't want to leave their spouse because their spouse is safe. Their spouse and their relationship with their spouse represents stability in their life. But the person who they're having an affair with is the person who represents excitement and adventure and novelty. And so it is an indication that inside the relationship, that the needs for novelty and thrill are not being met. Now,

this is something that definitely needs to be worked on between two people who are in a long term relationship is working on the passion and the thrill and the uncertainty. And the way that we do that is, well, it starts with ourselves because a lot of times when the magic kind of seeps out of a relationship, it starts with the magic coming out of ourselves. Like we have to feel that sense of aliveness inside ourselves. It's like, you know, we can very easily fall into ruts in with our partners, where we're just kind of taking each other for granted, where we come home, and it's just like, we're right into our sweatpants. And like, you know, we can easily become like roommates. And the thing is, what made the passion that really happens between two

people is them seeing you not just as one dimensional, they're seeing you like, in your element. They're seeing you happy and smiling. They're seeing you alive. And so we have to really pay attention to doing that for ourselves and also to be doing things together in a relationship, you know, like maybe doing some more fun things together. For some people, it might mean that they're spending too much time together. For some people, they're not spending enough time together more times than not it's mismanaged stressed and people are stressed out and they stop doing what they did in the beginning of the relationship so they're kind of stressed out they're not bringing like their highest self to the relationship anymore they're bringing you know

like what esther carell and many other experts have said you know their leftovers home their emotional leftovers home to their partner. And like, this is what kills passion. But it's still safe. And it's still stable. It's still connected in many ways. But the passion and the thrill and the novelty is not there. And that is something that people need to work on. But it starts with your relationship with yourself. Are you bringing your A game to the relationship? Or are you consistently bringing your C game and thinking, well, this is good enough because I know they'll never leave me. Can you just go back and explain the Madonna Hall complex just to the people that are listening that don't know about it? And I hate that name. I hate saying that the Madonna

Hall complex, but just tell us a little bit about what that is. It's more viewed as in heterosexual men who think that, you know, the woman they marry is sort of like is the Madonna, right? she's supposed to be almost like the Virgin Mary, the maiden, the innocent. And so you treat her with respect. And the girl who you don't care about, you treat like the whore. Whereas many women in a relationship, once in a while want to be treated like the whore in the most respectful way, like they want to have like, hot sex, and they don't want to be seen as that. just cuddle me after yeah exactly it's a real disservice that men do for their female partners you know it's definitely not going to make your female partner happy if she's just treated like

that because we want to be able to explore those women Jillian I'd love to talk to you about in the instances that someone is going through a breakup how does that healing journey start what are the things that you can put in place to protect yourself because I mean when we started this podcast. And it's something that sometimes it'll come to me and I'm like, oh my God, that is where that is the original conversation as to where this kind of sprang from. It was this idea that when you go through terrible breakups, it can be an incredibly transformative time in life. So very rarely does your life get completely pivoted in a way where you have the opportunity to kind of choose your own adventure ending as it does when you go through a massive life breakup.

Can you talk us through for those people, almost like a little bit of a Bible on the steps of healing on what they should do, especially in those initial stages of a breakup to better manage not just the other person, but manage their feelings and how to kind of go about that healing journey. Some breakups are an emotional catastrophe. Not all breakups are created equal, but there are some that bring us to our knees and are a traumatic experience and a life altering experience like with that breakup your whole life is going to change and maybe and if you have kids your your children's lives are going to change and so you need support whether that's support in the form of a therapist whether that's your best friends whether that's community whether

that's uh your parents whether it's all of that you need support it's really whether it's just one person who you have, it's so incredibly important. I think that people need to get better at asking for help and that they shouldn't do it alone. And so I think that when it initially happens, you know, you go into serious fight or flight, you're in serious survival mode, you know, you're barely eating, some people are barely bathing. And so it's just your nervous system is just completely fried. And so you just need as much love around you and support as you possibly can. So that's the initial stuff. And then as the shock starts to wear off, and you start to get sort of your sea legs back a little bit, then I think it's about processing and really

trying to understand what happened. And you know, you're going to go through a roller coaster of emotions because you're grieving. So when you're grieving, you know, there's anger, there's depression, there's denial, there's bargaining, there's all these different things. And every day is sort of like, you can go through all those emotions in a given hour, you know, let alone a given day. And so I think it's about having someone help you process your emotions. And to talk about it really helps. And then there's about just getting exploratory to really understand what went down so that you understand, because one of the things that people need to ask themselves is, is this a pattern? Has this showed up before? Is this something that's happened to me before?

And I think that one of the harder realities of some of these breakups is knowing that there's a pattern here. And not a lot of people will have the courage to really look at that. But I really want people to because there's a huge opportunity for change and transformation after these kind of breakups. These sort of life-altering events are really meant to wake us up. And so I think that then it's about exploring what are, you know, like, is this a pattern and what is that all about? That's also hard. It's a hard place to be, but it's so important.

And I remember the realization that I had, I was single for the better part of, you know, nine or 10 years. And I remember the realization. I remember when I had it, it was with Laura and it was on the podcast. And I was like, oh my God, it's me. I was like, it actually is me. I was like, I'm the common denominator, not in a bad way. Like I feel like good way, not in a successful way. It doesn't mean that it's all your fault.

It's just means that you're still the common denominator. I was a common denominator and I, it wasn't that I was, I was a, yeah, I was a great person in relationships. I treated them well. I was the problem because I had commitment issues and I never realized that. So I made issues in the relationship so that they, it wouldn't be successful. So I could walk away and then I would say, well, he's me. No one loves me. I can't find a relationship, but I think deep down, I didn't actually want a lot of them and that realization changed everything for me and I didn't feel bad about the problem is me like you know Taylor Swift that's obviously why she wrote that song I didn't feel bad about that it didn't make me feel like a lesser person but it enabled me

to understand and put steps in place to change and then I fell straight into I shouldn't say straight into but I was ready for an actual relationship because I addressed the issues that were at my core let's take this to a place that everybody knows and that is the online world so when you're going through a breakup what do you think people should do surrounding like social media oh I feel so bad for teenagers and just younger people having to deal with that like I I mean I certainly didn't have to when I was a teenager deal with social media I'm assuming yeah it's like they're having to deal with it now before they even have the emotional processing or, like, problem-solving skills when it comes to relationships,

but they're also bombarded by it. Like, I think about my 20s and I'm like, fuck, I couldn't stop myself from looking at what my ex was doing. I didn't have the self-control to not, like, torture myself with this. And I think how is someone who's even younger than that going to have any chance of not just destroying their feelings? The idea of, like, when you go online, you're in a breakup or someone you like or someone you've been texting, whatever,

and then it's as simple as he broke up with me, but I've he's looked at my story I've seen him look at my story yeah it means nothing yeah yeah which means nothing to protect your sanity you just have to block and unfollow it is the only way otherwise it's just it's too tempting you'll look at a story I mean this is this is what's the irony you'll look at their story and create a whole story around the story that you looked at You're like, he's already fallen in love. 99.9% of the time, the story that you fabricate based on the story that you viewed is not right. And so it's really becomes a matter of self-torture. And so you have to, I think that everyone just has to decide that they don't want to torture

themselves and to suffer any more than they're already suffering. And so to unfollow is really the only way, I think. I love that you mentioned that in terms of this idea that we fill in the blanks. I think a lot of people can be guilty in relationships of thinking that they can read minds, that they know what their partner is thinking or feeling, that if they're not getting all the information, they think they intuitively know the information. It's so easy for you to convince yourself of a narrative that may not be true and you think it's true. I think that like the antithesis of that of somebody that you might have a crush on that is not texting you and not contacting you making that story up in your head as to why because you want them to like you

so much oh his grandma's probably ill and he's busy he's really busy which is why he hasn't contacted me chances are he's not interested in contacting you because I really believe if they wanted to they would like that's my like my life motto yeah I think we play a lot of games with ourselves and the mind can certainly become a very messy place. And so that's why I say you got to protect your sanity. You have to preserve, I should say, your sanity as best as you can. And part of that is removing anything that is just going to make your mind go nuts, honestly, with justification, stories, filling in the blanks, mind reading, all of that. julian one of your very viral videos which i was watching the other day was you talking about the

types of people that you can't have a relationship with you can't build a relationship with someone who ignores your tax you can't really yeah yeah what do you think and i mean i would love even if it's in a way of summarizing that but like the main things that you've experienced that people have come to and been like i'm trying here and they're not trying what are the big red flags for you that you're like these are the things that if this is happening in your relationship you can't keep pushing this up a hill? Yeah. So I see a lot of people getting into complicated situations with people. And I really want to empower people to be communicators and to not get into relationships or connections where they don't feel good about themselves. But a lot of people will do that

because they are really hungry for love. They want to be in the relationship. They feel attached to person. They think there's going to be no one else out there. It's all fear that's driving that whole thing. And I don't want people to do it anymore. I don't want people to be in relationships where they're afraid to say what it is that they want. And I don't want them to be in relationships that are making them miserable, but they're staying in it because, you know, they're afraid that, you know, they won't find anyone else. This is, I'm speaking more specifically to early, like dating relationship, you know, from date one to about six months, you know, here's the thing you can't expect someone to be committed to you and invested in you in the first

when you just meet them it takes time but you know three four months in of consistently spending time together and it's not going anywhere you don't feel good and you don't feel prioritized there's a problem so it's time to open up i mean i think that people should be what i want to encourage people to do is to be communicating very openly and honestly from date one jillian do you think that's the timeline because we get that question all the time and it's so easy to get to a point where you're in it turns out you're in a situation ship that's not actually going anywhere but you're too scared to ask the question for fear of it ending what do you think is the timeline for people that if you've been dating if it's not moving when do you call it i think it's so tough

i mean i think that there's so many variables here so number one is a bigger issue that women run into is if you know that you get attached after sex and you don't know where you stand in this person's life, wait to have sex with them because you are going to be like a goner. You're going to be attached and then you're going to be waiting by the phone. And all of a sudden you're just completely disempowered in this scenario. There's that variable. There's how often have you been spending time together? Because I don't think that people should be playing house with strangers. Like don't be having sleepovers and spending all weekends together when you haven't had a conversation about what this is and what your feelings are and what you're kind of both

want and what your expectations are. Like you have to have these adult conversations right away. So what is the timeline? I think, you know, it depends on how often. So some people are going really slow. You know, some people want to go really slow. But I think if you're consistently spending time with someone and you're sleeping with them and feelings are growing and you know it's like two months in three months it should be progressing I think that's really just the goal of it like even if it's moving really slowly there should be even if it's a slow burn there should be some sort of momentum and some growing and some progressing and if you feel like it's not open up your mouth and just say this is what I would really love I'm curious to know how you feel

and this is what I want. So many people are afraid to do that because they don't want to sabotage it. But I'm telling you, there's nothing more attractive than someone who knows what they want. But don't start having that conversation two weeks in. Like, just don't.

And I'll tell you why that's so important. How do you know that you want a relationship with someone after knowing them for two fucking weeks? You shouldn't. You think you do because this is just going full circle with our conversation because the heightened emotion is there.

all the feelings are there. So you're like, I just want more of this. And so you start to cling to this idea. You don't want to let them go. And you want to know, and you want the certainty of knowing, but this is where we have to challenge ourselves to say, okay, I have all this height. This is how we process our enthusiasm and our feelings. I have all these strong feelings. I'm feeling like I want this person. I don't want to be guessing. I'm feeling uncomfortable with the uncertainty of it all. But I really don't know this person. It's been two weeks. In reality, they're a stranger. I need to ground myself and go a little bit slower because I'm wanting commitment from someone who I've known for two weeks. And I've done that, but it's lunacy.

It's crazy. And I know that there's going to be people who listen to this, who it worked out for, who they got lucky. Me. Sure. Yeah. But often that's the exception. Absolutely. And I think for everybody else who then invest themselves so deeply in something and then get to the six month mark or the year mark and it's toxic as fuck but you can't get out of it because you've mentally invested so much of yourself in it that you then have to try and go through the process of untangling it's so much harder and that's a very difficult untangling so hard i mean speaking of that the idea of that first two weeks where you think you want it all it obviously comes back to a lot of that chemistry, emotional, sexual chemistry, the literal obsession because of the

dopamine hit that you're getting. What's the difference between a healthy and an unhealthy chemistry? Well, it depends on the person. So one way to look at it is that if you are someone who has a pattern of always having strong chemistry with people with whom you have toxic relationships or with people who harm you in any way emotionally and or physically, then you have to relearn what it is to have healthy chemistry, which might feel a little boring at first, but that's part of the growing process. You have to learn how to find someone's character more attractive than like their charm. Healthy chemistry, look, chemistry is chemistry. So if it's the kind of chemistry, and it's not the chemistry fault, it's something inside of us. So if when you have

chemistry with someone, you have a tendency to throw all your standards out the window. You start to gamble away your values and your principles. That's when you know that someone or something has a hold on you that's not healthy. Then you're going into a pattern because you're blinded, right? That's when you shouldn't be sleeping with the person. that's when you should be slowing down a lot. And I would say healthy chemistry is when you have that deep attraction for someone, but you are searching for character and you are not just attracted to their body. You're attracted to their minds too, and their personality too. and you're looking for things such as honesty and integrity and loyalty and kindness, I think it's a

matter of like what the chemistry does to us. And so you want to have the kind of chemistry where you can still have your head screwed on straight. Talking about this idea of like seeing patterns in relationships and acknowledging that maybe you have repeated behavior. What happens in the instance where you realize that actually you are the problem? And I don't want to say that you're the problem, but like, you're the one that is. You have some changes you have to make. Yeah, absolutely. For me, I had that realization very similar to you, Britt. I remember my sister when I was in my twenties said to me, like, you always get into these relationships where there's like an obsession, like they're obsessed with you and you're obsessed with them. And it's

all very dramatic. And, and I thought that that was really flattering at the time. I was like, oh my God, you're saying they're obsessed with me. Like, ah, I'm amazing. And then years later, I looked at that and I was like, oh, I was so unbelievably toxic in the way that I created these kind of like intense bonds in my relationships. And I realized that that was a pattern I had as well, as much as it was kind of returned. How do you break that down when you've noticed that you have patterns, when you notice that actually maybe you're not showing up in a relationship or in relationships and choosing very good partners or behaving in a way that's healthy? how do you unpack that well I think first what you should do is celebrate most people when they

are faith confronted with that they feel very sad and they feel ashamed and they feel overwhelmed but really it's a moment of celebration because it's a moment of insight and self-awareness and you are never going to get what you want in life without that self-awareness and insight so I do think it's a moment of just being like I would like more people to celebrate like wow I just realize something in myself. And like, I just realized that I'm doing this. And that's why I don't have what it is that I want. Yeah, that's why I've been struggling. And then it begins with, okay, well, where does that come from? You know, you start to ask questions, where does that come from? Where did I learn that? How might this be related to something that I experienced in

childhood or something that I witnessed in childhood? How can I start to look at this differently. Do you think that there is always a linkage between the relationships that were modeled for you in childhood and how you show up in your own relationships? Yeah, there's always some sort of linkage, but it's not as cut and dry as you might think. There are definitely people who had very strong childhoods, but then end up with like an abuser because they just didn't even know that like, it's almost like rose colored glasses. They didn't even know that like someone like that could even exist. But yeah, a lot of times it's, you know, like watching mom maybe tolerate something that she shouldn't have tolerated or watching dad and maybe watching

both of your parents express love to each other in a way that was quite loveless. So not being modeled that so you kind of go out into the world, clueless about what it really means to be loved and what it really means to love romantically. I feel like we're coming to the end. But there's one more thing I wanted to ask and that is do you think that you can be friends with an ex when you break up with somebody because so many people are like we're just you know we just love each other as friends but you know you've been in this tumultuous relationship for however long what are your feelings around that I really believe it's case dependent so I think that there are some people who are married and they divorce and they co-parent really well and I've

seen them like both remarry other people and they all go on family vacations together right that doesn't mean that they're texting with each other every day, but they're in each other's lives. I think some people, their relationships never end, they just change form. And maybe they were they spent years together, like roommates. And so transitioning to friendship was very natural. But of course, there are also cases, which is that it's also just a way for people to make an excuse not to let go, and to keep that person in their lives. And so they're still carrying on with maybe the codependency that that might have existed between them in which case you know I think that it's best most times it's best that there's some time apart so that you know if they

do enter a friendship it's really just a friendship yes I think that's the important part the detox that that time like I block them don't message them don't call them don't see them have that time to I guess suppress those feelings get back to base ground zero and then start the friendship if you really really feel like you can't live without that person in your life I also think like you can be honest with yourself I think sometimes we lie to ourselves about whether we're friends with our exes or not like we you know you want to have sex you know if there's something there you know if you're holding on to like a spark we do lie to ourselves you know we lie to ourselves and like I think if we honestly sit down and unpack what that relationship means

to us even if it's not even if you're just getting validation from it whatever it is like if that's something that you're receiving then it's not just a pure friendship so you know especially if you're in a new relationship just is fraught with so many so many problems but I think we get very good at lying to ourselves and what we think we are and how we think we show up agreed a thousand percent Jillian thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your time and your wisdom with us I've really loved it amazing we're going to put all of Jillian's contact details, not her home address and pager, but you can go to her Instagram. We're going to put her Instagram in our show notes. Well, I, it was such a pleasure and I really appreciate you

having me. So thank you. It's so fascinating. The thing that I find, I mean, the thing that I get the most from that, and I'm lucky that I came to the conclusion, you know, two years, three years ago that I'm the problem. And we joke about that, but again, like I said in the interview, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it's so important to have the self-awareness that maybe you aren't providing something in a relationship that you need to be and that's not so you take the blame like there's always true to tango but if there is something that you know you might not be giving or doing or showing up with or communicating with it's really important to have that awareness we're not even I mean I agree with that but also the way in which Jillian describes like once you

have the revelation that maybe you have patterns in your relationship that maybe you do choose the same type of person and then you seem to have the same type of outcome and then you're like why does no relationship ever work out for me that that's actually a space for celebration i think we can be so hard on ourselves and i love the way that jillian described that if you are going through a breakup if you are in a really hard time we're so grateful that you come and you use our resources as a way of making yourself feel less alone if you want to join the facebook discussion group it's life uncut discussion group you can send us a dm to life uncut podcast and if you love the episode share it with a friend or you can jump on to apple or spotify and leave a review and don't

forget you can now go and watch us on youtube live on youtube don't forget it's great you can see us in the flesh guys you know tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your friends and share the love because we love love