Life Uncut - HOW TO NOT DIE ALONE - With Logan Ury

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

Hellllllloooooo Lifers!Today we are joined by the wonderful behavioural scientist and author Logan Ury!She's a dating guru and dating coach at Hinge and she's written a book titled "How to not die alone." We think it's mostly there in the title!In today's episode we unpack some of the most common problems that people experience in dating, including their dating blind spots. We unpack the 3 dating tendencies and how we can use the info of which one we fall into to better curate our dating lives and relationships.PLUS something that we've been asked hundreds of times "what should I put on my dating app bio" is answered in dot point format so that y'all can go out and live your best right swiped/liked lives!To kick things off in this episode, we speak about the Facebook Files and the daming information that the Wall St Journal has uncovered!If you like the sound of our voices in your ears, hit 'Follow,' 5 stars and chare the love because we love love!x x xSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Okay guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany and I'm Laura and if you are listening to this and you're from New South Wales I don't need to tell you that yesterday was freedom day and i'm sure we're all very very excited the reason why i say i'm sure is because brit and i are actually recording this on sunday so it's not quite freedom day yet it's three hours away it's nine o'clock and what are you going to do with your freedom day please because i know a lot of my friends everyone on my gram everyone's booked their hair appointments their dinners they're socializing they've got groups of friends they're meeting up with like people are ready to rumble what are you doing to celebrate i have two children

if you weren't aware of that and we are doing absolutely nothing which sounds ridiculous but I had this moment today where I guess it kind of this whole freedom day thing just kind of crept up really quickly it's been a long 16 or 15 weeks it's been two years but it really crept up well it kind of crept up in that like I hadn't thought about organizing or booking anything in but I had this real moment of anxiety today and I was partly because I was so happy and excited that things are going back to normal but on the flip side of that I was also like holy shit I have to socialize with people things are going back to normal and I guess I didn't really realize how much this lockdown had affected me and it kind of all came crashing down in one big fell swoop so as much as there's so

much excitement and happiness that I get to see and touch and be around my friends again I also and Brit like I mean we were just talking about this so for anyone who's listening this is news but Britt's gonna you're well aware of this like I genuinely feel like I have social anxiety from spending so little time around other people that even sometimes doing this podcast I have to really prep myself up at the moment to mentally be in a good space to be aware that this is going out to so many so many people when in my day-to-day literally the only person I speak to is Matt and then Britt and I podcast once or twice a week it's wild yeah Laura's like I don't know how to speak to an adult like we just tried to do this podcast three times and I'm like talk me through

what's happening I'm like what are you feeling she's like I don't know how to speak to people anymore just what am I feeling anxiety like the rest of Australia but I think I know that people are experiencing anxiety in prolific levels at the moment there's anxiety around getting in trouble for doing the wrong thing of being caught out for doing the wrong thing even if you're doing the right thing even if you're obeying all the rules there's still this feeling of like you could get into trouble and I guess also on top of that it's just you know feeling like not being able to see your friends and missing out on some really huge life events and zoom just doesn't cut it Brittany I am ready for you to get back in my bedroom where we can record face to face but from

what I've seen everyone in my life and a lot of people on the gram this feeling that you're having seems to be very normal anxiety is high right now people have gotten used to this change now I'm not say no one wants to go back to normal because everyone does but that doesn't mean it doesn't come with some reservations people have gotten used to this sort of semi-introverted life and a lot of people are talking about the fact that they don't know how to go back to normal they don't know how to go back to being comfortable in public and and having all these plans so I think basically anything that anyone's feeling right now is okay and it is valid whether you're excited about it whether you're nervous whether you're anxious I think that that's all okay and everyone's

going through the same wave of emotions let's hope that the other states are not far behind us if you are from melbourne that is still in lockdown please hang in there and we hope you are coming to freedom day very very soon one big thing that we have received so many questions and emails about is just people's dating anxieties getting back into the world and going dating again and like if you're single trying to get it back out there and meet people you become so familiar with what you do in your day-to-day that this feeling of life going back to normal and having to put yourself out there especially for anyone who's listening who is a typical introvert it's a really really daunting time as much as it's exciting and as much as so many people are

absolutely thrilled I think that there is a big group of us as well who feel a little bit scared at the moment that everything's changing back so quickly and I think one thing on that sense. Nothing rings truer than talking about the anxiety of dating throughout COVID. When you compare life to before COVID, in COVID and to what's going to happen now after COVID, for sure, the dating landscape has 100% changed. I think dating in COVID has some positives and I think there's a lot that we've learned from it. And one big thing I think people are going to do, like, oh my God, people are going to go rampant. Like the one night stand is going to be crazy. Go live your best life. I hope you guys go have some fun. But I just think the landscape has

changed so much and before we could go out no worries and you could be having one night stands you could be physically touching people and kissing people but now we're learning to develop a bit more of a connection with someone before we meet them because we had no other choice let's be people spending more time getting to know each other and I I've dated all across it I've dated in COVID and before COVID and I obviously met Jordan in the middle of COVID so I know what the dating was like during that period and I think that we can take a lot of what we've learned from dating in COVID into the new world post COVID. But anyway, we're talking about dating at the moment. This is the perfect segue because on today's episode, we are actually speaking to

Logan Urie. She is a behavioral scientist. She is the dating coach for Hinge and she has written an awesome book called How to Not Die Alone, which we all need. Well, she like really unpacks the importance of human connections. She unpacks like why, why we would want to not die alone. and for anyone who is single this is going to absolutely be the godsend of an episode for you but even if you're in a relationship there's so much in this conversation that I think we can all take away she is an absolute wealth of wisdom but before we get into the chat with Logan of course there are a few other things that we need to unpack yeah we have something big to unpack this week but we're not going to get too in depth but what we did want to talk about and every single

one of you 100% you know this happened you experienced it you can't escape it it was the great Facebook outage of 2021. So Facebook and everything attached to us, so Instagram and WhatsApp, everything went down. Now the world woke up, tried to log on to their Instagrams and it just said that there was no connection. But everyone just thought it was their own sort of Instagram at the time. Even in our group chat for work, producer Keisha is saying, I'm trying to post some stuff, but my Instagram's down. Can you guys do it? And I was like, babe, if you check the news, like the whole world is down. But the Facebook blackout was just the start. It is just the tip of the icebergs, ladies and gentlemen. There is a whole lot more that has been happening

and going down in regards to Facebook. And when I say Facebook, for totality, we mean Instagram, WhatsApp, the mothership that is the Facebook organization. Now, you may have heard of something called Facebook Files. And if you haven't, I'll give you the brief rundown of what's been happening. There is a whistleblower that has come out of Facebook. Her name is Frances Horgan, and she has released a whole lot of internal research document papers, private private documents that Facebook doesn't want released and she has given them up to the Wall Street Journal. Now, these are what have comprised the Facebook files and each week more documents are being released to public. There's actually an awesome podcast called the Facebook files as well

that I got very deep on. You can go and have a listen to that if you're interested in it as well. Basically, what she's saying is she's come out, she's got tens of thousands of documents that she's taken with her and she's saying that there is pages and pages of evidence that over and over again, Facebook chooses profits over safety. And there have been so many reports on this, of their internal research that they have not released for a reason. And this is why she's releasing information because she said enough is enough. I've seen the evidence. I know what is happening and I'm going to blow the lid on this. And it is just, it's so explosive. And I feel like people week by week now are on the edge of their seat to see what else she's going to

release. But just in terms of the profits over safety, do you know, Laura, that they estimate that Mark Zuckerberg in that outage for that like five or six hours that it was down lost about $7 billion. So I think that that alone is evidence that profits are very, very prolific and very important in the Facebook industry. Isn't that crazy? Imagine not going to work for seven hours. Like how much money would you lose? I'm losing $7 billion. I'd lose like $7.50. wild so this whole whistleblower like the main things that have come out from this is that there are several different parts of Facebook that they have kept very secret one of them is this thing called the VIP cross check so VIP cross check means that any celebrities

or Instagram users who have amassed millions and millions of followers are held to a different set of standards than what all the rest of us Instagram plebs are held to and now when I say like big prolific Instagram users. I'm talking like you're Justin Bieber's. I'm talking like you're top creme de la creme of Instagram. Yeah. They get a hall pass essentially. Facebook gives them a hall pass. Yeah. And what it means is like, if you were to post nudity or something that was went against Facebook's rules, you would very quickly have that content taken down. You would either be issued a warning or if it was damning enough, they would remove your profile altogether. Now those same rules don't apply to celebrities. The reason that they removed this

originally. I went deep, guys. I'll tell you that. The reason why they removed this was because back in 2014, Rihanna had her whole entire Instagram taken down because she posted a cover photo from a magazine that the algorithm thought was too rude. And so Rihanna's entire Instagram account was taken down, like millions and millions of followers and so many other similar variations of this had happened. So instead of dealing with the PR backlash that Facebook was receiving, they basically brought in a new blanket algorithm that meant that celebrities and people with huge followers were exempt from these rules now there's so many issues with this and the big issue with this is the fact that people who have huge followings also have the biggest level of

accountability and if somebody who has millions of followers is spreading misinformation then they're not held to the same level of accountability and that misinformation can spread far and it can spread wide and it doesn't get taken down like it would if it was just a general Joe blow putting it out there to the universe. The other two points just quickly that came out in these Facebook files are human trafficking and just how prolific human trafficking is across the network. So across Instagram, across Facebook and across WhatsApp and how people have been trafficked in developing countries and that Facebook's very, very much aware of this and how little they've done to try and combat the issue. And lastly, one of the things that have come out is the huge and profound

impact that Facebook and Instagram is having on teenagers when it comes to their self-confidence in their body image. And I know that this is something that we're all so aware of. Like everybody knows how rife comparison culture is and everybody knows that there is some toxicity when it comes to body image on the platform of Instagram. But this is research that has been done internally within Facebook hard research that says that they're very much aware of it but they're not doing anything about it or not doing enough about it I should say. The documents that have been released in a Facebook file literally showed that Instagram is completely aware of the detrimental effects that it is having on teenagers and young children. So there was a

PowerPoint slide created by Facebook researchers themselves in 2019 and it states that Instagram made body image issues worse for one in three teenage girls so they know that they've done the research there was another research presentation from 2020 so one year later which was published on Facebook's internal messaging board so again it wasn't released publicly but it stated that 32% of teenage girls said that when they felt bad about their bodies Instagram only made it worse so here Instagram is with this knowledge Facebook and Instagram they have this knowledge they've done their own research they know how detrimental it can be and then they've decided hey now that we have this information I have a good idea let's make Instagram for kids and this has sort of had

a lot of people in the world up in arms because they're saying well hang on we already know that this isn't a good place for many adults and many people that are old enough to know the effects and take control of their life and and the information that they're seeing online what part of knowing this information makes you think, hmm, maybe we should get our kids involved. So for me, I have my feelings on this, but Laura, what do you think about this? Well, for anyone who doesn't know what Instagram for kids is, basically the minimum age for Instagram at the moment is 13. So they're wanting to create a platform that caters towards the 10 to 12 demographic. Now there's two camps of thoughts when it comes to this. The first one

is that children are already using Instagram. Nine-year-olds, 10-year-olds are already using Instagram but they're just using it under an alias of being over 13 you know they just lie they check the box and then they create their platforms and their profiles anyway so creating a kids only a retrofitted kids only Instagram is a place that would be safer as in the content would be tailored towards age appropriate content they wouldn't have ads on there and there's a whole other lot of parental restrictions and parental guidance that would be embedded within that app the flip side to this argument what so many people are calling bullshit on I guess is that the idea is if you can hook these young kids if you can hook a 10 year old on an app if

you can make it become so ingrained in their culture so ingrained in their behavior then of course they're going to migrate to the adult app when the time is right and at the moment there's so much competition in this space most young kids are getting onto TikTok and so many of the kids these days, I sound so old saying that, but I am. Kids, we're so old. They're not using Instagram in the same way that we did and their uptake for them using Instagram is declining. So getting them onto Instagram kids is a very, very clever way of ensuring that the next generation is already signed up for Instagram before they've even had a time to think about it. And look, we do want to present both sides. Whilst I just said there was research saying that it was detrimental,

Facebook's head of research and Zuckerberg himself have both come out saying there is also research to say that it is beneficial for kids especially in the pandemic to have stayed connected and I guess we can't argue that when all of a sudden the world has said hey to all these kids you can't play with your friends anymore you can't go to the park you can't go to school everything's online school on learning is online of course there is an aspect of that to say hey of course they're going to benefit because they can still stay connected and I don't think we can argue that part but that's not what this is we're not going to be in a pandemic in lockdown for the rest of our life life is going to go back to normal and personally I don't think

a child from age 10 to 12 I know I wouldn't let my child I don't think they need to be on Instagram I think the interweb can be a very dark and scary place anything can go on on Instagram absolutely anything and I have no doubt that Instagram and Facebook are going to be putting procedures in place to ensure safety and security otherwise they're not going to do it like they're a hundred billion dollar company of course they're going to have that but I just don't think that's enough to stop people from doing the wrong thing the big thing about this is that the creation of Instagram kids has been put on hold they've not stopped it it's just been kind of halted and it has been halted as a cause and effect because of the Facebook files and because of this research

that's come out now Adam Masuri who's the head of Instagram has come out and put a quote if you Google Instagram kids, this is what comes up. We wanted to provide an update on our work to build an Instagram experience for people under the age of 13, often referred to as Instagram kids. We started this project to address an important problem seen across our industry. Kids are getting phones younger and younger, misrepresenting their age and downloading apps that are meant for those 13 or older. We firmly believe that it's better for parents to have the option to give their children access to a version of Instagram that is designed for them, where parents can supervise and control their experiences rather than relying on apps ability to verify the age

of kids who are too young to have an ID. Okay. So the reason why I find this so alarming that this is the main response from Instagram is that imagine if an alcohol brand came out and said, hey guys, look, we know that there are 16 year olds out there who are drinking booze. Like we come on, you know it, I know it, we know that they're lying. So instead of trying to make sure that we have more restrictions in place, age appropriate restrictions in place that mean ordered for them to buy alcohol, they have to show ID, they have to have double verification, whatever it is. And we'll just make a beverage that's more appealing to them. Like we'll just lower the bar. So I just think it's so wild that instead of trying to counter the problem by

increasing the age to an age where they can verify it by someone's ID, the solution to this is to decrease the age and try and retrofit the app to cater for young kids now the other issue to this is that yes parental supervision is so important but no parent can supervise comparison culture the app of instagram is based on comparison it's based on putting up your best photos it's based on curating your life there is this element of FOMO which kids are going to have when they're looking at these apps no amount of parental supervision can stop a child from feeling those feelings and I think that that is the big thing even without the whole cyber security even without worrying about adults getting on there and pretending to be kids just being able to monitor

what your children see and how that makes them feel is an impossibly huge task for parents to do and I think it's hard enough to be a child these days anyway let alone throwing in this extra stress and extra comparison and imagine being a child and just seeing every day all your other friends going out and doing things and tagging each other and having fun whether they're doing that or not you don't know they could be pretending that they're having a great time you don't know but the isolation and the increase in bullying I think will take place if Instagram kids goes ahead I personally am going to vote against it that's my that's where I'm sitting at the moment until I can see some more research that's positive it's a no from me yeah I totally agree I think the only

thing that creating something like Instagram Kids is going to do is create another thing for parents to have to battle their children on to tell them that they can't have it. You know, if you don't want your child to have it when they're 10 years old, you're now faced with such a bigger hurdle to try and explain to your child why they can't have it when there's an app that's been created saying, hey, it's specifically for you. I feel like we have covered so much of this, but there I mean, honestly, Facebook and Instagram take up so much of our lives now. They are so ingrained in our culture. They are so ingrained in our everyday that we could genuinely talk about this forever.

And as more of this whole Facebook Files thing unpacks, I think we probably will touch on it again in the future. But before we get into the chat with Logan, let's do our favorite part of every episode. And that is accidentally unfiltered, but also confessionals now. We've got a whole new segment for you guys. now i just thought this one was so innocent and it's got nothing to do with poop so this is why i've brought thank god i've chosen it today i feel like so many people are like ladies enough enough with that yeah but i just want to highlight the fact that we don't go looking for the poop eight out of ten of you that write in is about poop like the poop stories are just so prevalent

that we don't really have a choice we have to sift through the poop to get to the non-poop anyway doesn't it also just make you realize if you're listening to this that everybody has a poop story like you all have a story anybody who has an issue with us talking about it i get it i know it's not for everyone but even you have a story that you haven't told us so just keep that in mind for next time okay so my sister and i were heading home last night behind our parents car after a very long and sad day at the hospital spending time with our sick nana earlier that day i had started listening to tuesday's manifestation episode next thing you know we're getting a call from my dad and I'm like that's weird I just left him and he's right in

front of us why the fuck am I listening to two girls talk about what creams you can use on your dildos and vibrates little did I know my phone had connected to my bluetooth in mom and dad's car as they're sad going home from the hospital they're listening to what you guys would put on your dildo dead I absolutely lost it it actually made all of our day coconut oil just just coconut oil nothing else or actual lube imagine driving home from the hospital and like you're so down and out and you're in the car and then all of a sudden our voices come on talking about what home products you can put on your dildos and vaginas the dad's just like what the fuck am i listening to the sisters just lost it fuck it started off really dark and really grim

and then it got there in the end really brought her home britney what have you got for me today these confessionals i just want to say guys it's a new segment like we said last week we didn't really know where we were going with it. I'll be honest. We were like, we're just going to throw it out there. We want to know your deepest, darkest secrets, and we're going to share them anonymously with all of you. Now, I know that there was some chatter in the Facebook group about confessionals, and I just want to say one thing. We don't condone any of this. We're not here saying like, yes, this comes with no judgment. We're not here saying yes or no. don't shoot the messenger we are literally just sharing with you guys some of the cook shit that

comes over instagram so please don't think that just because we share this with you that that's us saying we would do the same thing we probably wouldn't do any of these things nah we probably would they're good for a laugh all right so i'm gonna hit you with my top three i think that this is how we're gonna do it we're gonna do like one accidentally unfiltered and three quick confessionals each week well let's see i think so but i mean we have to really control ourselves not to do like 25 confessionals because they're so good. So I think we need to like stock them up.

Okay, strap yourself in, ladies and gentlemen. Here we go. My sister moved out a few months ago and left her electric toothbrush in our shared bathroom and I've been using it as a vibrator ever since. Just buy your own. Just get your own. They're not that expensive.

Get yourself a little rabbit. To be fair, you're definitely going to save money. My problem's not that you have improvised. My problem's that you've improvised with someone else's toothbrush. Like, just go and buy your own toothbrush. Have you ever – okay, you're going to say no to this because you'd never share someone else's toothbrush to masturbate.

I can hand on my heart say that. I was going to say, have you ever used anything that wasn't something that was purposefully built for masturbating with? Like, it wasn't a dildo or it wasn't a vibrator. And you're going to say no because you won't share it with the Daily Mail because we all know that will end up in an article. Oh, yeah, because I'm very filtered on this podcast. I actually haven't.

I hands down cannot think of one thing that I would have used. Have you? No, but we have received a lot of people writing and saying that they've used their phone, which I get it, but it's weird because then you have to hold it and then other people touch it. And it's an awkward shape. I don't think they're shoving the whole thing inside them, Britt.

I think they just might be using a vibrate function. Wait, do they just put it on there and wait for a text? Like what if you don't have any friends? What if no one messages your calls? Someone keeps calling and you're like, why aren't you answering? You're like, just call me back. I can't talk right now. Call me back.

Okay. All right. Well, we did say we're going to stay away from shit, but then I lied because this one is definitely about poop. Okay. My poo wouldn't flush at work, so I had to get it out with my hands and put it in the sanitary bin. That's it.

Is that the end of the confessional? I'll give you guys one more before we go and jump into this chat with Logan. my now boyfriend of four years was ignoring me when we were in that situationship stage of our relationship he went radio silence on me with absolutely no explanation so naturally i was pretty pissed off and confused so i attached his work phone number to a gum tree ad for free baby angora rabbits he said he got over 100 calls in the first hour and couldn't even decline them because he was waiting for a call from a new work-related job i've never told him that it was me so she's still with him she's how do you i would never that would never cross my mind but

i tell you what i'm getting a lot of ideas from you guys jordan's jordan but never bring up with me i would it would never cross my mind either but i also love it it's like really clean payback it is do you know what actually do you want to know something really funny this is just really quick i was semi but not really involved in this when i found out that my ex had a double life right lol cute I don't want to know what you did no it wasn't me but when we both found out obviously we both left him but she the other woman ended up telling me what she did she's like I was just so mad and I was like oh my god what did you do so she went back to the house to like once and for all take all her stuff and she just thought this was hilarious she just went around

and took every tissue paper and toilet paper in the whole house so that next time he did a shit he had nothing to wipe his butt with and I was like that is not payback for someone having a double life i'm like you need to you need to listen to this podcast to get some ideas i'm like cute but i don't think that's gonna cut it mate she needs to get out more i feel like you could just have a shower once again live through a global pandemic where there's been no toilet paper it's fine just have a shower keep those coming in keep the accidentally unfiltered the ass gun cuts the confessionals i can't believe they said that anything fucked up that happens in your life basically keep that coming into our instagram life uncut podcast but now it's time to get into

the chat with Logan Urie, who is so interesting. I absolutely love this chat. I really did. I had the greatest time. We had so much fun recording it, and I think everyone's going to benefit from it. Logan Urie is a behavioral scientist turned dating coach, and let's be real, that is exactly what we need here at Life Uncut. It is definitely what I know I needed in my 20s. But Logan is also the author of best-selling book, How to Not Die Alone. And I absolutely love that title. We're definitely going to get into that. But on top of that, Logan is the Director of Relationship Science at Hinge, and she

leads a research team dedicated to helping people find love. So what better person to have on Life Uncut today? Logan from America, welcome to Life Uncut. Yay, I'm so happy to be here. Now, Logan, we have a section that we do with every single guest who comes on the podcast, and it's called Accidentally Unfiltered. And it's where you share with us your most embarrassing story. And I know you've been prepped on this, so I cannot wait to hear what the wildest, most

embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you is. I know, I know. I definitely considered not sharing this, but I'll tell you the story. So have you ever heard of a book called The Giver? No. No. Okay. I'm not sure if this is huge internationally, but basically when I was in sixth grade, I

read this book called The Giver. And it was just like this first time in my life where I was like, I'm a conscious person with deep thoughts. And wow, the world is a big, scary place. And it just was a very meaningful book for me in terms of my intellectual development. And I read it in one night and it just, it always stuck with me. It was this really deep book. So then when I was a sophomore in college, I found out that Lois Lowry, who had written The Giver, was coming to speak to my class. And they said, a couple students will be chosen at random to go have lunch with Lois Lowry. And I went out to the teacher afterwards and I was like, I will not be waiting around to see if I'm chosen. I will be at this lunch with Lois Lowry. Like I need to meet Lois Lowry. I was

like, I will be there. And she's like, okay, like sounds like you really like her. So we went to this lunch with her and I was like sitting next to her and telling her all these things about how much I loved her, like probably coming on really strong. And then I brought at the time was, you know, a digital camera. I was like pre iPhone. And I had the waiter take two photos of us. And I like put my arm around Lois Lowry and I was so proud. And so then I asked her like, oh, you know, I'd love to send you the picture. So she wrote her email address on a napkin, which was something like Lois at Lowry.com or something like that. So I went home that night and I uploaded the photos and then I sent her an email saying like, hey, Lois, so nice to meet you. Thanks for a great

day. Here are the photos. And I BCC'd all my friends and family to be like, you know how much I love Lois Lowry? Look at this. And then my sister, who's very sassy, called me and she's like, I think you should check the pictures that you sent in that email. And so basically I had taken two photos at lunch and so I attached two photos but instead of attaching the two photos from lunch one photo was from lunch and one photo was from right after lunch which was that like I lived in a dorm room and I would hand wash my underwear and then like stroke through it throughout the room so I was like hanging like in all these different directions on my room and I like thought it looked really funny so I took a picture of my underwear hanging and that's what you sent it to

so instead of sending two pictures from lunch it was one from the lunch and one of all my underwear like you're a sick fan that is so funny yes exactly so it was like I had come on so strong and then I sent my favorite author a picture of my underwear at least you didn't send her a nude I have done this Logan actually more times than I care to admit Logan tell us a little bit about how you became a behavioral scientist, what your background is there, and how you morphed that career into becoming a dating guru. So my background is in psychology. I studied psychology at Harvard, and I've always just been so interested in human behavior. It's really interesting to look at why do people do the things they do? Why do we make the decisions we make? Why do we often act

out of our own best interests? And so I've always just been so fascinated by the way that people Act. And so I was able to turn that interest in psychology into this role at Google running the behavioral science team. And so what that team did is it says, all right, there's this field called behavioral science, which is a fancy way of saying, how do people make decisions? And if you understand how people make decisions, you can change their behavior. And so let's say it's something like, if I send you an email that says, Brit, fill out this survey, it'll take 20 minutes, versus if I send you an email that says, Brit, fill out the survey. It'll take two minutes. You're much more likely to do it if it's two minutes, right? Because you're like,

that's no big deal versus 20 minutes is so big. But then I feel like I'd complain when it takes me 20 minutes. I'd be like, she said it was only two minutes. No, that's true. That's true. I don't think you should lie about how long the survey is, but I think you should understand what is the amount of time in which someone will take action or not. And so with behavioral science, I was really able to apply all these cool academic theories to designing Google products, designing Google marketing, changing the behavior of people who work at Google, like in this corporate environment. But while I was there, I was like, I'm single. I am using dating apps and I'm having a hard time. And all these genius wizards at Google

who invented the internet, all these people are having a hard time. And what can I do about it? And so I started this series called toxic Google modern romance, where I would bring in experts to come talk to me about how do you communicate in a digital world? What is the deal with non monogamy? How do you overcome the paradox of choice and online dating? And I talked to them about all these things. And through that, I was like, this is really my purpose. I am on earth to help people find love, to help people answer these questions. And the unique way that I'm going to do it is taking what I know about psychology and decision making and applying it to dating. And so I do that one-on-one. I do dating coaching with people where I'm like, this is your blind spot. This is what's holding you back.

Here's how we're going to change it. But then I also did it through my book in terms of saying to anyone reading this, these are the common mistakes that people make and here's how to overcome them. And then I get to do it at an even larger scale at Hinge with millions of people using the app and really saying like, let's help people stop ghosting. Let's help people date safely during COVID. Let's help people video date as a low pressure vibe jack. And so for me, it's all about my goal is to help people find love. But what I can add to the space is saying, let's break it down to these micro moments and help you make better decisions along the way. Which one came

first? How did you get your job at Hinge? Did the book come first and all your other interests and research and then Hinge was like, hey, we could really add her to our team. Or did the book come after? Did you go to Hinge and just say, I love love. I want to fix the world. I want to help the world fall in love. Give me a job. Yeah. It's an interesting question for anyone who's listening and is thinking about making a career change. Because for me, I was just like, not everyone finds their passion, but I had really found mine. It was all about dating and navigating online dating. And so between Google and Hinge, I actually worked at Airbnb and I had an awesome job. Like Airbnb is a great company and I love traveling and my coworkers were great, but I was

just like, I have to pursue this love thing. And so I quit my job and I just said, I'm going to figure it out. And I went step-by-step towards where I am now. And so one of the steps was getting a book deal and in telling people about the book and writing the book and talking about the interviews I did, an acquaintance of mine worked at Hinge and knew about this open role on the Hinge Labs team and said, let's interview my friend Logan. And through writing the book, I kind of put my name out there as a person doing this work. And obviously a book has like gravitas, I was able to do research, I had a point of view. And then the fact that I had written this book and had this reputation is what got me the Hinge job. Let's talk about your book for a second,

How to not die alone. I feel like the title says it all. We all need it. We all need it. And you know, I think that's the thing, right? One of the reasons why we got so interested in doing this podcast is because relationships are at the epicenter of what make people happy. You know, it's what we strive for connection and love in our life, but we all seem to navigate it or not all of us. Some of us seem to do a pretty good job, but so many of us struggle in this area. And so many of us feel like we're completely out of our depths. What was your motivator for writing how to not die alone. I felt like I had something to add to the conversation because a lot of my clients are very successful people. They have a beautiful group of friends. They love their jobs.

They have great relationships with their families. And so they felt very blocked. They said, dating is this one part of my life that hasn't worked out for me. I'm willing to put in effort. What am I not getting? What am I doing wrong? And so I really felt like there was just a huge problem area. People who were wonderful and could be great companions who were desperate to find love, but they were repeating the same mistakes over and over again. And they needed somebody to come in and say, here's what you're doing wrong. Here's the myths that you're following. Here's how to change your behavior. Here's what to do instead. And so what felt exciting for me about the book was taking everything I'd learned from my research, everything I'd learned from coaching,

everything I'd learned from academics and say, here's an A to Z guide to finding love. You touched on something just then. You said, these are the myths that you're following. What are some of the myths that you've found? And especially in your day-to-day when you have clients that come to you for a personal one-on-one coaching, what are some of the biggest myths that you find people subscribe to when it comes to dating? So one thing that happens to me pretty often is somebody shows up for our first session and says, Logan, I've been on a hundred dates in the last three years. Here's my spreadsheet of all the dates I've been on. And I want you to analyze the spreadsheet and tell me what kind of person should I be with and what should I do?

And there's this feeling of like, I've been on so many dates, how hasn't it worked out yet? And what I feel sometimes with these people is that if they weren't talking to me, they could go on a hundred more dates and it also wouldn't work out. Because it's not just, I haven't found him yet. Or it's not just an issue of timing. That person is bringing something to dating that is holding them back. Sometimes it's their mindset. Sometimes it's their expectations. Sometimes it's an attitude of this will never work. Sometimes they're so disconnected from their body and their sexuality that they're not attracted to anyone and they're putting a wall up. And so yes, you do need to go on dates and effort is part of it. But if all you're doing is showing up, but you're not

changing your behavior, you could go on a hundred more dates and nothing would shift. Just out of curiosity, for the clients that do come to see you, is it more skewed to the women clients than men? Do you still get a lot of men that come to you for help as well? Yeah, it's been fascinating how many male clients I have. I mean, in general, the dating and relationships industry skews very female, right? Women are the ones who go to workshops, who buy the books, who care about self-help, who prioritize spending money on dating. That's sort of a general trend of the industry. But I think because I use terms like sunk cost fallacy and loss aversion and status quo bias, something about grounding it in that science and research has made me feel like a safe

confidant for men. And so about, I wonder, at any given time, probably between 25 and 35% of my clients are men. And it's been really interesting because I think it helps me get that perspective that then informs what I say to my female clients. And so obviously not all of my clients are straight. And so I have clients of different gender identities and sexual orientations in general, but among my straight clients, it's really helpful to go back to back from a 43 year old man to a 43 year old woman and see how does my advice change? How do their experiences change? and really so much of what I advise people in my book and in general is from these one-to-one interactions where I'm like, this person started here. I gave them this advice. They ran this

experiment. This is how they found love. And now I can kind of turn that into generalized advice that hopefully a lot of people can use. Logan, talk me through what are the three dating tendencies? And I know that in your book, you've put them into categories that we kind of fall into and the same sort of traps that we make when we are dating. Yes, exactly. Okay. That's a perfect follow-up question because when I talk about people coming to me with dating blind spots, it's often these three dating tendencies. And so for anyone listening, they can take the quiz on my website. It's loganyuri.com slash quiz. And it's all about figuring out why am I repeating the same mistakes over and over again? And so the first dating tendency is the romanticizer.

And this is the person, maybe you are like this, who loves love. This is the person who says, I know exactly what my soulmate is going to look like. I'm not going to use dating apps because they're not romantic. I want to have a really special how we met story. We're going to be at the farmer's market and reach for the same avocado at the same time. And we're going to fall in love. And they're very focused on the narrative and the story. They love love. And they're not really willing to be flexible because they're so focused on this one Disney rom-com version of love. and the issue with the romanticizer is that they're not willing to put themselves out there because they think love will come to them and that when they do get in a relationship they expect it

to be easy and effortless which of course relationships aren't and so the work for the romanticizer is to be more open-minded about how you meet someone what package they come in and to also understand that love takes a lot of work i actually did your quiz oh yeah what did you get and I have a question about it sure I did the quiz guys and super quick background on myself Logan I am currently in a relationship that I've been in just this year but before that I was single for like the best part of a decade and I had this is how this podcast came up I had the most tumultuous fucked up toxic hilarious dating life you couldn't write it I scored on your quiz all three so it says that I scored very highly on all three tendencies what does that mean does

that mean i don't know what the hell is going on in my head no i mean some people do score highly on all of them and then it really becomes a question of which is the one that's most dominant for you and so there's nothing wrong with you if you scored highly on all three of them but it is helpful to know like here's my dominant one so i'll explain the other two and then let's try to figure out for you which one is your big tendency so i talked about the romanticizer and the next one is the maximizer and so this is the person who says uh you know the person i'm dating is fine but couldn't there be somebody better out there? Or I like my boyfriend, but I wish you were 10% more ambitious or 5% hotter or 20% got along better with my family. And it's like, there's

this image in their mind. If they can put this Frankenstein person together and have this ideal partner. And the issue with the maximizer is that they always, they don't look at the person in front of them and invest in the relationship and build. They always think I'll keep swiping or I'll keep dating because there'll be somebody else out there. And so the advice from me to the maximizer is relationships are about finding somebody great, investing in them and building it. It's not about looking around for the perfect person because nobody's perfect. It's about the relationship that you build. And what is number three? The third one is the hesitator, which is somebody who doesn't put themselves out there at all. They think, oh, I'll be lovable if I lose 10 pounds.

I'll be lovable if I get a more impressive job, I need to clean my apartment, I need more money in the bank, whatever it is. And so they're actually afraid of dating because they feel like, oh, I'm just not ready for dating yet. And so the thing about the hesitator is that you can only get better at dating by actually dating. And you can only figure out what kind of person you want to be with by going on dates with different types of people. And so the advice for the hesitator is to actually stop hesitating, stop waiting and start dating. I think that that's a really important point too before we get into what's wrong with me unpacking my personal trauma that can wait that can wait yeah I think it's a really important point that what you said it's

like anything else in life you don't wake up and become a psychologist you don't become good at something you don't wake up and say I'm gonna start surfing tomorrow go out into the ocean and all of a sudden you're a professional surfer things take time and things take practice and things take effort and work and dating is no different and I know how much better I was such a killer dater by the end of the 10 years I was like snapping through dates I knew what was what I never got nervous I was so confident but it's because I did so much effort so I think that's something to reiterate to everybody is like you're only going to get better and more comfortable if you actually go out and do the job exactly I also think on that as well Brit like this idea of we

should just be good at dating like we should just be able to find someone and love should just happen but like the reality is so many people find it so challenging it is so difficult to have a great relationship with someone and to be able to build good communication skills and you know we get taught everything in school we get taught fucking Pythagoras's theorem which we never use in life but nobody teaches us how to really communicate with our partners and to build a strong and lasting relationship and if you don't have that role model in your own home like if you don't have that from your parents or you don't have it from other people to to see what is a healthy relationship then what do you have what tv you have shows like I don't think that we

necessarily have been brought up especially our generation with great conversations around how to find a partner how to keep a partner and how to build on that relationship now do you see uh Logan which one which tendency do you see the most like after just I'm just reading them as we're talking now and I definitely think the maximizer is not me I think I'm more of a even though I scored high on all of them I think I'm the romanticizer and a hesitator for a long time and I know a lot of our listeners are too I was definitely a hesitator in terms of I really wanted like our tagline on this show is we love love it's like that is our tagline so definitely the romanticizer and I do love love and it's all I've ever wanted but for the best part of I don't know five or six seven

years I was a hesitator and I wanted the love so badly but I never thought I was good enough and I never thought I was deserving enough and I was almost embarrassed to go on a date with someone because I thought that they would look at me and be like oh you're so disappointing like you're not what I thought. And I had this comparison syndrome. And so I think for me and for a lot of our listeners, I feel like the hesitator would be a really big one. Is that what you find would be the strongest tendency from people that come to see you? Yeah, it's a great question. I was going to guess that you are a romanticizer partially because you have this podcast, but also just the way that you present yourself. And so I would say like baseline, I figured you weren't a hesitator

right now because you are in a relationship. And so if you are listening and you're wondering which when you are. If you're just not putting yourself out there at all, the hesitator tendency is probably strongest for you. And if not, the maximizer, I would really say it's, are you someone who says what else is out there? And then for the romanticizer, it's, are you someone who's very anchored on a specific way that love will look and feel? For my clients, actually, before my book came out, I would say a lot of my clients were romanticizers or maximizers. So the romanticizers were often people who came and said, my parents have this beautiful relationship and I'll never have something like that.

And a lot of kind of disappointment around not having this Disney fairy tale love story. And then because I live in Silicon Valley in California, I had a lot of engineers, people who were saying, I want to optimize my relationship. I want to find the perfect one. I want to research my way to it. And hesitators didn't find me because they weren't putting themselves out there enough to work with me. but I knew that they were there. Now, since my book has come out and since we're 18 months into

the pandemic, so many people are hesitators because this has been the perfect moment for people to say, I'll date when coronavirus is over. I'll date when I know where I'm living. And people are making a lot of excuses and a lot of people have taken this time off from dating. And then unfortunately now many people feel behind. Do you find as well that there's a bit of a conversation that happens where there's a pendulum that swings and we get this question that comes in all the time. We do a section called Ask Uncut. And it's between this fear of settling, but also this fear of feeling like their expectations are too high. Where is that sweet spot? How does somebody know if they're settling in a relationship or how does on the

flip side of that, someone know if the bar that they're expecting in a partner is just way too high for what's realistic in someone? You really nailed it. That's one of the main questions that people ask me. They come in, they say, am I too picky or am I not picky enough? and my response is that you are allowed to be picky but about the things that matter and so if you are rejecting guys who are not tall enough or don't make enough money you're making a lot of assumptions around what you need and what will make you happy long term assumptions that we are often wrong about but where i think you can be less picky oh sorry that's where i think you can be less picky around superficial resume qualities height income etc where i want you

to be pickier is in terms of, is this person reliable? Is this person honest? Does this person treat you with respect? Do you admire them? Do you respect them? Can you make hard decisions with them? Do you feel like this is a person who you can build a life with? And so it's about being picky on the things that matter long-term and giving up on the things that are not as important, some of the superficial traits like height. Yeah. And this is how I knew that I was a really big hesitator and Laura really liked to point that out to me often I would go on dates and the guy would be great the the talk had been great the banter had been great on paper they were fantastic and I'd come back and Laura was like how was it I was like oh can't see him again

she's like why not I was like oh he wore a salmon shirt or he wore socks and sandals or like it's a no and I would just try and find any any fault that I could that was ridiculous because I mean you can change socks and sandals you just take the socks off don't buy them socks anymore like you can change that i feel like the common reoccurring theme with you brit was like you were always like oh he likes me too much now and it's all too much too quickly like i can't handle a guy who actually likes me i want him to be mean to me to start with we did an episode very recently around attraction and i think you kind of just touched on a little bit but i'd love to get your opinions on this we we discussed whether attraction is essential in a relationship to start with

whether it's something that can build how important do you think it is that there is that initial spark or chemistry with someone in order to continue a relationship? And at what point does attraction actually need to be in a relationship for it to last as well? This is one of the big points from my book that has really taken off. And I've been happy to have a little bit of a tagline, which is F the spark. And so what that means is that almost word for word, what Brittany said, I used to have these coaching clients who would go on dates and they would say, Logan, I met this woman. She was beautiful and engaging, and we had a great conversation. It was a really good date, dot, dot, dot. I'm not going to see her again.

I would say, what are you talking about? And they would say, I just didn't feel the spark. And so the spark has become this all-encompassing word that means instant chemistry, initial attraction, fireworks, butterflies, unicorns. And I believe that we've been fed this lie from society that we expect to feel this instant chemistry and that if not, it's not the right match for us. And so a lot of what I'm putting out into the universe is this idea that the spark is nice and it definitely exists, but there are many myths around the spark and that attraction can absolutely grow over time. I think as well, we can often fall into the trap of comparison, but not just comparison with what other people have, but comparison with past relationships.

I know that for a lot of our listeners who have struggled with this, once you've gone through a breakup and then you go back into the dating world and having this feeling of like, oh, I'm never going to find someone who I love as much as my ex. And one of the big things with this is this reminder that you can't compare dating someone new who you don't have a relationship with, who you've never met before, who you're just figuring out who they are as a person. You can't compare that spark to what you have formed with someone over X amount of years. Like nobody's ever going to live up to that. Do you find that that is a common thing and a common theme that you find with people who are struggling getting back into dating? I've absolutely found that it's hard for people who are getting back out into the dating world after being in a long-term relationship because they compare the intimacy and connection

and comfort and familiarity that they felt at year four with their ex to essentially a stranger, a person who they've been on two dates with. And then they get very frustrated and then they say, oh, I wasn't myself or it wasn't natural. And it's like, yeah, you have to build to that. It takes time. And so I really agree with the advice you gave, which is that you need to be patient and you can't compare year four with someone to date two with someone. I even hear this with people with their friendships where they say, I'm so comfortable with my friends, but on a date, I'm kind of like this actor. I'm totally different. It's like, yeah, well, you didn't always feel close with your friends. You had to build towards that. And so there's a

sense of patience, which is that good things take time. Momentum grows. You develop that intimacy. And so for anyone who's listening, who's getting out of a relationship and getting back into the dating pool, I would say you can absolutely build that intimacy up again, but don't compare years of connection and friendship into a person who you've just met. What do you think about soulmates like penguins? We say penguins here at Life Uncut because penguins mate for life. But do you think that the idea of finding your soulmate, this one human out there in the whole world, do you think that's flawed? Or do you think that there really is just this one person that we're meant to be with? I don't like to perpetuate the concept of soulmates

because I think it really enforces some of those romanticizer tendencies. And so what will happen if somebody believes in soulmates is they'll meet a wonderful person. They'll go out with them. They'll have fun for a few months, three months in, they'll have a disagreement, let's say around where to go on a trip or COVID protocol or how they split their finances. And then instead of working through it, they'll say, well, this feels really hard and effortful. You must not be my soulmate. Let's break up and I'll keep looking. And it actually encourages people to give up on relationships and try to find someone else versus a different mentality, which is that there are many people with whom you can build a relationship. You can write a lot of love stories

with different people. And that means that it's much more about finding somebody great and committing to writing that story together versus just the act of finding your soulmate. So I'd say, I don't believe that there's a one. I don't believe that there's a soulmate. And I hope that you feel empowered, that there's many people with whom you could build a great relationship. Yeah, I think we have many. So like when we say penguins, we say penguin, like this is the person that I've chosen and this is the person I think that I'm going to be with forever. But Laura and I spoke about it in private. We've spoken about on the podcast. And I really do think that there are so many soulmates for you at different points of your life, at different ages and when you need

them. And maybe you do, you know, I've got a friend that has been with a partner since they were 15. They've been together forever. They'll be together forever. And I've got other friends that have never even dated and they're in their thirties. But I think people come into your life when you need them. And I completely agree with you. If we put this soulmate, this one human in the billions of people in the world up on this pedestal and say, I need to go and find this one person, I think it's going to be a really long and lonely journey. I also think as well, it subscribes to this idea that one person can give you everything in life, which we all know it's not possible. And it's such an unfair and unrealistic pressure and expectation to put on

someone that they should provide for you all of this, be your comfort, be your support person, be the person who you find funny. Like we need to have that from other people in our lives. We need to get that from friends. We need to get that from work. Like we have to have other things that stimulate us. And it's, it's just like you're setting your relationship up to fail. If you expect your partner to give you absolutely everything. Logan, there was something on your Instagram, which I wanted to ask you about, there was one of your posts and it said the hard work of love is finding someone and that's crossed out. Tell us what you mean by this. Yes. So I call this the happily ever after fallacy. And this is exactly what you said. It's the mistaken belief

that the hard work of love is finding that person. And the truth is, yes, that is really hard. It's hard to find the person. It's hard to say yes. It's hard to commit. It's hard to say no to other options, but that's only when the hard work begins. The hard work continues. It takes effort to stay connected to your partner. It takes effort to invest in your relationship after a long day of work. It takes effort to keep the love and sex and passion alive. And so the happily ever after fallacy is this idea that at the end of the Disney movie or the rom-com, we're just supposed to believe they overcame all of the trials and tribulations. They found each other, they wound up together and now they live happily ever after. No, there's no assumption to that. They have to

either keep putting in the work and they'll live together well, or they choose not to. And so what I'm trying to do with posts like that is help orient people on the fact that if you're in a relationship and it feels like work, you're doing it right, not wrong. A lot of people come to me with the grass is always greener mentality. And that's really what informs the maximizer. They believe, should I commit to this person and get married or have a child or be in a long-term relationship? Or should I break up with them and see if there's somebody better out there? And so that is a pretty modern phenomenon, this idea that I can just keep going and find more people. In the past, you would date within your village, you would date within your apartment

building, within your high school. And you said, all right, I have Bill and Belinda on my street and those are my choices and I'm going to be with one of them. And now it feels like there's a lot of choices. Some of the other cultural factors that are at play, one is that a lot of us have divorced parents and we don't have a blueprint for relationships. And either our parents were divorced or unhappily married. And many people say, I don't know what it looks like to build a relationship. I don't know what it looks like to fight and make up. So that's one factor. Another factor is what Laura talked about, which is increasing expectations of what to get out of a relationship. In the past, you might have said, this is a person who I build a house with,

raise a family with, raise a farm with, and we keep a roof over our heads and food in our mouths. You weren't expecting to self-actualize. And now we expect our partner to be so many things to us. And those rising expectations are sometimes good because sometimes when you ask for a lot, you get a lot, but it also means many people are disappointed. And the Northwestern professor, Eli Finkel, he wrote this great book called The All or Nothing Marriage, which is the best relationships of today are better than the best relationships in the past. But many people now get divorced for reasons that our grandparents or even parents could never have imagined. So in saying that, the flip side of this is in a relationship, when do you know to tap out? Like

what is the baseline for when we should be saying, okay, I'm not happy in this anymore. I don't want to work through this like how does someone know if the way that they're feeling is valid enough or strong enough to go this is the reason why I should break up with my partner versus going okay I really need to kind of dig deep and see where we're at in six months time and put some effort in so one of the interesting parts of my job is I do this thing on the side called breakup consulting which is just a funny way of saying that people call me and say should I stay or should I go? Like flip a coin. Yeah. I mean, I take this role so seriously because I'm holding their relationship future in my hands and there's this other person whose feelings need to be

considered even though they're not on the call. And I really take this as a big spiritual and emotional ask. And I have a series of questions that I ask them to help them understand, is this the right relationship for them? And so one is I think some people are hitchers, people who stay in relationships for too long, who get into relationship and say, well, I've already been in this for five years. I don't want to start over. And some people are ditchers and they stay in relationships too short. They give up after five months. They say, we had the spark, but it fizzled. Or I want to meet someone new. And so one thing is just, do they have a historical trend of being a hitcher or a ditcher? Another thing I ask them, which I call the wardrobe test question

is if your partner were a piece of clothing in your closet what piece of clothing would they be this is good and this question is super random and abstract but here I'll ask you I love it Brittany what's your answer like gut reaction to that question I would say my partner is a plain white tee or denim cut off shorts and that's because I wear that every day that is like my go-to it's what I'm comfortable in and it's what I just feel my like my true self in I think that's a beautiful answer. And so I've asked this question to dozens of people, and sometimes I hear answers like yours, where it's the go-to pair of leggings, favorite t-shirt, favorite jacket, the thing that makes you feel comfortable, warm, like yourself. But I've also heard very bad

answers. I've heard, my boyfriend is a wool sweater who keeps me warm, but it's itchy, so I take it off. Or my girlfriend is a scrubby shirt I wear to the gym, but I hope nobody sees me. And it always smells and I use it to wipe out my sweat. Exactly. And I should have thrown it out three years ago. And so it's because this question is abstract and sort of bizarre, people give their gut reactions. And in giving their gut reactions, they say, damn, I really need to leave this relationship. Well, I was going to say. That's interesting. Laura, what do you think Matt is to you? Straight off the top of your head. I was going to say he's like my favorite warm jumper. But then when you said it was, it's not the one I want to take off. It's the one I want to slop

on the couch and like around the house and never, ever take off. I think it's, is this an item you like? Is this an item that represents you? I do ask them all these questions, but sometimes that's the most provocative one because when they hear themselves saying something like the pair of jeans that I should have gotten rid of because they're too tight and they don't fit anymore. They're like, I think I've outgrown the relationship. I really love this because I know that this is something that so many people struggle with. And I think a lot of people check out of relationships based on a feeling. We talk a lot about the ick and we like the amount of questions that we have come in around breakups. It's so hard because we can't just say to someone, I'm sure you feel the exact

same way. Yes, you should break up with them. No, you shouldn't break up with them because you don't know the nuances around that person's relationship, especially when, I mean, sometimes it's very black and white. If there's something that's happened or if there's disrespect or if there's bigger things at play, sometimes it can be black and white, but mostly it's people who have been with their partners and maybe have gotten past the honeymoon. They're in a really comfortable phase of the relationship and they're a bit bored. And I guess we kind of expect that our partner should always excite us and should always be bringing something new to the table to keep us interesting and interested. But we also have to be that person as well. We also have to be the ones putting the

effort into the relationship. Yeah, Laura, I agree with everything you're saying. And it's actually a great segue from what we were just talking about with the wardrobe test, because sometimes I'll say to someone, how do you want your partner to make you feel? And they'll say, I want to find someone who's like my favorite hooded sweatshirt with little holes for the thumb where it's my running sweatshirt and I feel safe and I feel warm and I can go anywhere. And it's like, okay, well, who are you going to be? How are you going to show up in the relationship? And so a lot of my book and my work is advising people on who to choose, but how do you get somebody to choose you? And the answer there is have your actions follow your

words, do what you say you're going to do, be reliable, be thoughtful, put the other person first, surprise them, delight them, learn about their sexual desires and how to make them happy. And so, yes, a big part of modern dating is choosing who to be with, but you also want to be the type of person who will get chosen. That's such a big question. Like when you were like, people come to and they say how do I make people choose me that's exactly it but I think that you don't want to you don't want to dig too deep into that and say well I need to change this and this and this about myself so that people like me better because that's going to unravel that's not a forever plan I think you you need to obviously be the energy and be what you want

back in return but also you need to be 100% yourself because if you're not chances are you can only keep this act up for one year or two years or three years and once you show your true colors someone's like hang on this is not what I signed up for I'm not quite sure who you are don't you think though that like what if yourself is just lazy in relationship like what if you are someone who gets lazy like that's not good enough maybe you do have to kind of be somebody not be somebody else but you have to do some personal work to be a better person to be with in relationships I think you know maybe it's too easy to say oh like you have to just be genuinely you and you can't be anybody else like we can be us but also be a good version of us yeah be the best version

of you. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Logan, let's get into talking about dating profiles, which obviously you are the absolute expert. You are the queen of dating profiles and have seen many in your time. What do you think makes a good dating profile? Like what are the key things that we should be doing when we're setting up our dating apps? Like what is it? Yes. I love, I would love to be your queen of dating app profiles. So the first thing is understanding what's the point of a profile? And the point of a profile is to tell your story. You're really a storyteller, you're a curator, you're an editor, and you're putting forward who you are. And so you want to tell your story with variety. I was just looking at a woman's profile where

every single picture was her with her big curly blonde hair looking over her right hand shoulder wearing a different dress. And I was like, I get it. You have beautiful blonde curly hair, but I'm only learning one thing about you. You look better from the lift. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. We know you're a good side. And it just, it lacked variety. And so here is the formula that I would use for a great profile. The first picture should be a clear headshot. This is what my face looks like. No filters, no sunglasses, nobody else in it. This is what I look like. Do you like it? Then I would have at least one photo with your full body so that we can get a sense of what you look like. Then I would have at least one photo with some family or friends to

show us that you have an active social life. One picture ideally of you doing something that you love. So hiking, giving a talk, playing an instrument, cooking, whatever that is. I want to catch you candid and in the moment really feeling joyful and like yourself. And then just show us different sides of your personality. If you're really goofy, but all your photos are of you from different friends' weddings, we're actually going to think that you're more formal than you are. And so your photos should show variety. They should show different sides of yourself and they should really answer some of the basic questions like, what do you look like? Then with your profile prompts, so for Hinge, obviously you can fill out prompts about

who you are. The goal is to be specific and to spark conversation. So many profiles I look at say, I'm looking for someone curious who loves adventure, or I'm looking for someone who's honest. And it's like, how is that going to spark a conversation? Nobody's going to write to you and be like, Hey, Laura, we should date. I'm honest. Like, no, there's no response to that. But if you write, I'm the kind of weird who dot, dot, dot would rather spend Friday night doing a puzzle than going to a bar. Someone can be like, cool. I'll bring the puzzle. You bring the pretzels or whatever it is. It's like, you want to spark an idea in someone so that they say, I know how to respond to that. And I'm going to send you a message. And what are your thoughts on women

making the first move? Now we have very strong thoughts on this, but I would love to know, cause we get, we get a lot of women that are a bit scared to make the first move. A lot of women that say, you know, I'm really old fashioned and I don't, I think they should come to me and I think they should chase me and they should put all the effort in. What are your thoughts on that? All of the research that we've done at Hinge has shown that when women make the first move, they're really happy about it. It helps people avoid burnout because it makes you feel in control. So remember this, the more in control you feel, the more like you feel like you're in the driver's seat, the happier you are with dating, the more successful you are with dating, the more dates

you go on and the less likely you are to be burned out. And so I would say throw out your preconceived notions of playing games or waiting because the people who go after what they want are the people who get what they want yeah and there's nothing there's like no worse feeling I don't know about anybody else but I detest it but a feeling of this limbo of waiting are they going to text me are they going to write back are they ever going to ask me out like this feeling of anxiety or being unsure about what's happening I detest that I've always been a first mover I've always been a go after what I want and because what's the worst thing that's going to happen you're going to ask them out and they say no you're like cool at least now I don't waste the

next three weeks wondering if you're going to ask me out. Totally. Shoot your shot. And honestly, we've done so much research on this at Hinge. Playing games is not a good strategy. The people who get the most dates are the people who send comments, send roses, send likes, and ask people on dates because those are the people who are actually engaging and the people who sit back and say, I'll let him come to me or none of these people are good enough. I'll wait around. It's like they're just not getting their experience. They're not getting better at dating and they're not doing stuff like that. So respond to messages, go on dates and stop waiting for love to just happen to you. How long do you think someone should wait? So like after you've matched with

someone on a dating app and you've been sending messages back and forth, how long should it take between having that initial conversation like digitally and turning that into an IRL meeting? we've done research on this and we found that after four to five days is this sweet spot where you've talked enough to get a sense of the person and to make sure that there's someone you're interested in but it's not so long that the moment has passed so after four or five days you can say something like i'm really enjoying getting to know you on the app let's see if we have this much chemistry in person or i'm not a big texter do you want to hop on facetime and see if we hit it off. Do whatever you can to move from the app to texting or from the app to a phone call,

a video date, or an in-person date. Because what you don't want to do is get trapped in this pattern of nonstop texting. And my mantra that I want you to keep in mind is you're looking for a partner, not a pen pal. It's so true. And there's so many people on apps who will just pen pal you to death. And nothing comes of it. It's a waste of time. Such a waste. For a little while, it's like it's exciting and it's nice to meet someone and it's flattering but like it truly is a waste of time and nobody has that much time at the moment or ever the thing is I mean well people a lot of people have a lot of time at the moment but I think something and I'm talking to a friend about this at the moment like one of my girlfriends has been talking to this guy she's she's really

into him and she's been talking to him for a gosh probably three months but because of lockdown they haven't been able to meet so she's talking non-stop she's like I think that he could be like something really really serious I think he could be it we just get along so much we talk we text all day and like we have some great phone conversations and I just had to say to her in the last few days I said I just want you to be really aware that this might not be the same chemistry in real life and and I have that's something I have stumbled across in the past and I just know it all too well that you can get wrapped up in this fantasy and everything's so romantic and she's like yeah but he says all the right things and he just seems so loyal and I'm

like, but you've never, he's just saying what you want him to hear. Like I think people, and I wonder if this is something you're seeing now through COVID for the last two years, this is what dating has been. People have had to form these relationships purely online. And I know there've been a lot of success stories, but it's just something to be wary of for people that set themselves up for failure when they haven't physically met. Absolutely. So I'll speak to it in non COVID terms, and then I'll speak to it during the pandemic and lockdown. So in general, all my advice is that you should get to the date as quickly as possible. Because what happens when you keep texting nonstop is you build up, as you said, a fantasy in your head. You think,

oh, we get along so well. We have great texting banter. We pass memes back and forth. He's so funny. And you just imagine, oh, this is my person. And that when we meet up, it'll be perfect. But what happens four months in when you finally meet up and then you don't like the sound of their voice. You don't like the way they smell. You don't feel comfortable around them. Turns out all their texts were so funny because their friends as a group were writing them. And so you just wasted four months because you build up a fantasy in your head that wasn't real. And so in general, try to get to the date as soon as possible and avoid building up that fantasy in your head. That being said, we need to follow pandemic lockdown restrictions. We need to be

safe. And sometimes we can't meet up IRL. And so what I would do is say, make sure you're video chatting, make sure you're talking on the phone. Text-based communication can create a lot of false ideas. And so get that synchronous, ongoing conversation where you can hear their voice, you can have a dynamic chat. And really that's the best proxy for how will we get along IRL. Just going back for a moment to people who are coming out of lockdown, especially here in Australia who are getting, they're single and they're getting back amongst it. Talk to me a little bit about fear of dating again, FODA. I mean, we all know what FOMO is, but like FODA is a new term that you've coined. I mean, I think this is a very, very real thing. And I know even

from my friendship groups, and I've spoken about this to producer Keisha before, the fear of dating again, when we've had so long to be able to hide away. And especially for this dating personality type that you've spoken about, what can people do who are feeling apprehensive about getting back into the dating world? Foda is, as you said, fear of dating again. And it's a really, really common experience for people right now. At Hinge, we found that over 50% of Hinge daters are experiencing this. And it's not really that surprising. If you haven't been on a date in a while, if you haven't even been at your office, you feel like your social skills are rusty. You feel nervous about being in public and are you going to be safe? And so all these people want to find love and 75% of

users are looking for a relationship, but they're afraid to get back out there. And so the first thing to understand is that this is a really normal, common experience. This has been a really trying time. Our pool of resilience was used up a long time ago, and now we're just running on fumes. And so if you're someone listening who says, I have FODA, I'm afraid to date again, that is absolutely normal. And you should be compassionate with yourself because life is hard right now. So we've spoken a fair bit about dating profiles what to do what not to do how to put your best foot forward but for all of those people that are in a relationship you talk about things like turn towards and turns away and these are things that you talk about in your book and

I've heard you talk about in a podcast about how to make and work together to make these relationships better. Can you just talk to us about the turn towards and turn away? So some of the greatest researchers and thinkers in my field of relationship science are John and Julie Gottman and they are a married couple. He's a researcher. He's a mathematician. He's an academic. And Julie is a therapist with a PhD and they are this power couple. And they've done really interesting research on what creates a great relationship. And so they have these terms, the relationship masters and the relationship disasters. And so what they found is that it is not about the grand gestures. It's not about once a week going on holiday or having a really

romantic Valentine's Day or anniversary. It's about small things often. It's about every day really interacting with your partner. And so they have this concept called bids. And a bid is a verbal or nonverbal attempt to connect. So a bid might be, I'm working on my laptop and my husband comes in and puts some cut up melon next to me at the desk. And so he doesn't say anything, but of course he wants to connect. He wants to show me love. He wants to have a conversation. And so I could just grunt and say, and keep working. Or I could shut down my laptop and say, thank you so much. How's your day going? Where did you get the melon? What are you up to? And it's these small moments where people are saying, I want to connect with you.

And you have the chance to turn towards them, which is respond to the bid, ask them a question, engage, or you can turn away from them, which is ignore them, say something rude, or push back. And what the Gottmans found is that analyzing couples, the relationship masters turn towards each other 86% of the time. And the relationship disasters only turn towards each other 33% of the time. And so it's not about the big moments. It's about every day making bids and turning towards bids.

I really love this. And I think it's so easy to get into your comfortable zone in a relationship. And not that you find your partner annoying, but just be like, oh, I'll do it that later. Or I'm trying to do something right now. And you're constantly in this phase of like kicking the can down the road. And it's just such a quick fast track to feeling unappreciated and feeling unloved. And then when you do get to that part in a relationship, it's so hard to work back towards feeling okay no my partner does appreciate me I do feel validated and cared for I really I love

that and I we've actually spoken a little bit about them before but we've never heard that description of their research they've done so I really really love that Logan for anybody who is currently struggling in their relationships or feeling unlovable or feeling like they just haven't met the one what advice would you have to someone who's really finding just like that maybe dating isn't for them or maybe they aren't going to find someone. The pessimist, you mean? You know what I mean? The person, when you get to that point where you're like, I'm never going to find someone, you know? And I think that a lot of us, if we've been single for a period of time, if we're feeling lonely, there have been periods where we've all felt like I'm never going to find

someone. I'm not lovable or there's something wrong with me. What's the advice that you would give to someone who's feeling those feelings? My advice is to take baby steps. You don't have to go from not dating at all to going on five dates a week, that's probably going to be unsustainable and lead to burnout. And you may not go from years of not dating at all to finding a relationship right away. But what is something small and tangible that you can do right now that's going to make you feel like you're making progress? So it might be making a list of the people you've dated in the past. How did you meet them? How long did you date? Why did you break up?

What are the things that were good about the relationship? What are the things that were bad? And you sit there and you take an audit of your past relationships and you look for patterns and you say, I tend to break up with people after three months because I get bored. That's a bad habit that I want to break and I'm going to move and make different decisions. That's a small step that you can take to make you feel like you're making progress. And so the summary message here is take small steps that make you feel like you're moving forward.

take breaks when you need to understand that you don't have to meet a million people that you like you just have to find one person and build a relationship with them and that love is something that you build not something that happens to you oh that was a strong finishing line logan that's like she's a seasoned veteran at this logan thank you so much for coming on the podcast it was so fun everyone i know in australia is like the uncut podcast so i'm super happy that you. Oh, really? Yeah. Definitely have a great reputation and it was so fun to do it. Thanks for having me on. We really appreciate it. And, and can you please tell the listeners where they can find your book, where they can follow you. If they want to find out anything more, just give us

all of the handles where you're at. Absolutely. So people can buy my book, how to not die alone, wherever books are sold. And if you like the sound of my voice, I read the audio book and if you didn't like it then buy the kindle version or the hardcover there's a lot of options there's a lot of options and then if people are interested in my quiz they can go to logan yuri.com slash quiz or they can follow me on instagram at logan yuri logan i really genuinely was enthralled that whole chat i really really loved it and laura and i are so interested in this is why we started the podcast and already i'm kicking myself a little bit i'm like why on earth didn't we get you on sooner like that was that was a fault on our end but I really really love that chat and guys if

you're interested and you love that episode Logan talks about so many amazing things on on all her platforms so go check her out on Instagram or give her a listen and I hope that this helps some of you out even though I'm in a relationship I just gained something from that and it helped me a lot so thank you for your wonderful wisdom I had so much fun thank you great to meet both of you until next time you know that we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet our highlight and a low light of each and every week and Brittany you can kick it off I know that you've been doing so much with your past week let me guess Cabanara is your highlight no all right what else have you been doing guys I am in quarantine in hotel isolation obviously in

Adelaide so I think that that is just my suck as an overall I'm on day what am I on day now I think it's day 11 I actually lost count so that is my suck I'm going a little bit crazy obviously I've gone from seeing Jordan every day to not seeing him at all so that's a little bit of a suck too but I am surviving my sweet for the week is really hard to think of I feel like your sweet just needs to be like all of the literal sweet food that has been sent the amount of things that I've seen now where you're like I have received Ferrero Rochers I have received Carbonara I have received this like uber delivery is your sweet for this week I have had some really nice deliveries actually I had a few people in my life that gave me a thought for a hot second actually no do you know what

you know my sweet is I haven't taken anyone up on it yet but so many of you guys so many of you lifers have written to me on the on the gram I've seen them come in and you've said if you need anything I will literally come and pick it up in Adelaide and I will drop it to you and I would never make anyone do that but I just wanted to say thank you to every person that has offered because the thought alone means more than you know so that's my sweet is just how much I realize there are really good people out there and people actually care. People care. People care about the food I'm eating and that's what makes me happy. But I also think so many people now have had friends or they've done it themselves or family members who have done quarantine. That's one of

the big things about this whole period is just as much as everybody is isolated, how much people are reaching out to try and feel connection. And I think it's so amazing that we have this community. It's so amazing that even through all this separation, people are so willing to go out their way to try and be connected and to help people it's really something that's special so my suck for the week is my HelloFresh delivery got stolen why that is so shitty I mean someone was hungry yeah fuck like I get it if I can get it was out in the street okay Laura the why was like a rhetorical question but like you can answer I get it there was a box of food that was left out in the street and someone took it because they were hungry I get the why unfortunate for me

like yeah my hella fresh is gone and that was my week of groceries and I mean I know that I can leave the house now and go buy groceries but I didn't want to okay that's a that is a solid suck what is your sweet and my sweet is is that this week so tomorrow actually when you're listening to this we have a launch for the new collection for Tony May it is called alchemy and I'm so freaking proud of it it is like the little baby that I have been working on so hard throughout the last four months oh I can't wait to get my pieces and it's like give me jewelry I love when it's launch day no that's really exciting because you do work so hard on that well it's just like I mean I don't talk about Tony May very often on the podcast and it's something that takes up so much

of my life like it is my number one job essentially you know like I we Britain I obviously do this podcast but like I have a whole other business that I run and I'm just so proud of this range like I'm really really stoked and I feel like when everything comes into fruition and everything comes together you have these real moments of like ah this is why I'm doing it all so yeah I'm so so so excited for that that's tomorrow so yeah that's my my sweet I guess maybe it'll be my sweet next week but it's my sweet this week just because like all the hard work has now been done and I can kind of sit back and watch it all kind of roll out well I absolutely cannot wait to see it Laura and guys thank you for listening that is a wrap on today's episode it was a big one but as we said

keep all of your stories coming in keep your ask uncuts coming in and if you haven't joined the facebook life uncut discussion group where you're at because that's where all the juicy goss goes down and some really bloody funny stories are on there and you guys know the drill tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your sister your cousin and just tell everyone and share the love because we love love We'll be right back.