Life Uncut - I don't want kids - stop telling me I'll change my mind

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Hey Lifers!It's our big meaty Tuesday episode served up with a side of bants. Today we are revisiting a topic we spoke about several months ago and that is - being childless by choice. The reason why we have decided to revisit this is because we listened to your feedback and so many of you wanted us to go deeper on this topic and take into account more stories and perspectives. Which is exactly what we have done! But before we get into that we ask the big question… Have you ever masturbated at work - you horny little minx. Childless by choiceThe default when we are growing up is that we seem to think that success will be getting a good job, getting married, buying a house and having babies; but our generation seem to be questioning the 'status quo.'What about if you don't want to have kids?On today's episode we are joined by 3 women who have made the decision to remain childfree.We unpack:-When they realised kids may not have been for them-Their reasons for being child free-How to navigate conversations with friends that are struggling with fertility-How to navigate those conversations in a marriage/dating scenarioWe also address these statements:"But what about when you get old and there will be no one to look after you?""You just haven't met the right partner yet""You'll change your mind"You can find these women on instagram.Danni Duncan - @danni___duncanKarina Irby - @karinairbyJana Hocking - @jana_hockingIf you enjoyed the episode and think someone in your life might be interested in the conversation, share it with them!Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because we love love! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode is recorded on Gadigal land of the Aurora Nation. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. And I'm Brittany.

And we had a bloody cute weekend, didn't we Brittany? We had like a little team, can we call it a date? It was like a team date. Producer Keisha, Laura and myself, we bundled ourselves into the car and we went on a road trip out to Rudy Hill. To Mount Druitt. because that is where the one and only Esther Perel was performing. She had her show here.

She's here from overseas. She's done a tour, but we were the last show of the tour, which happened to be in Mount Druitt. There were some closer, but we wanted to go see her so much that we were like, okay, we will drive an hour and 15 minutes to see her. But we were almost late because Brittany insisted that we get McDonald's. We had 10 minutes before the show started, and Britt was like, I can't go to the show unless I've eaten.

So we made a detour. We got McDonald's, and then we were late. But thank God also Esther was also late. Well, let me tell you, hey, I hadn't eaten all day. I was so hungry and I was like, I don't know if I can sit another couple of hours without food. So in my head. All I wanted was a glass of red wine.

Well, McDonald's is called fast food. Like it's supposed to be fast. Mount Druitt was the slowest McDonald's I have ever experienced. It was like 20 minutes. Clearly not sponsored. I already had anxiety about being late, right? Wait, wait, wait. Brittany had anxiety because I kept saying we're going to be late.

Like we can't go get McDonald's. We've got seven minutes before the show starts. We are going to be late. but then Laura's one of those people that like really needs to reiterate what you already know and were we late no well yeah we were but she was also late by technicality we were very late yeah but she was late so it was wonderful but we did see Esther and it was I mean she was on the podcast a couple of weeks ago and she's such a superstar she's so good at what she does also like what a one-in-a-lifetime thing to actually go and do to see Esther Perel in the real world and there was

like 2,000 people in this theater I was like what do you call it in this theater and I think she did such an amazing job of being able to touch and talk about relationships but in a way that I think every person in that room would have felt like something was relative to them it was just like a live therapy session for everyone which I know I needed there's two types of people that go to these things there's people that like want to be involved like want to stand up when someone at the front asks a question and then there's people who like are fearfully petrified that they're going to be called out well there's this one point where at the very start she's like all right everyone stand up. This is thousands of people stand up. If you are in a relationship and Laura

stood up and everyone stood up, like most of the audience stood up. And then I was like, Oh no, I knew, I knew what the next question was. And I was like, don't do it. And she's like, now stand up. If you're not in a relationship, but you want to be, and you could see people like tentatively looking around, Patricia and I look at each other and we're like, we've got to engage. So we stand up. But I was that person. I was like, don't make eye contact. Don't look at me. Don't give me microphone even though this is what I do for a job but also don't you think it's funny that like stand up if you're in a relationship everyone stands up and it seems like that that's a positive outcome but then the question of stand up if you're single and you want to be in a relationship

there's this instant feeling of like oh don't make me do that like it like that that's a negative or that that's not a success do you know me like it's all just part of the journey but like for some reason internally you could tell that the atmosphere and the feeling towards it was way more negative well because there's always this like really and I don't know why there's this deep-seated issue still in society that oh if you're in your 30s and 40s and you're single there's something wrong with you or even though like you and I Laura we've spent 300 episodes trying to break that mold and get society out of that and I'm a big culprit for that like I definitely don't want that to be a thing 99% of the time I don't feel I'm proud to be single I'm

happy yes I'm looking for a relationship but I'm still happy in myself but in those moments for a second even I felt it I was like I don't want everyone in this audience looking at me being like oh like woe is her the pity the pity looks yeah like they're wondering if there's anything wrong with them looks and chances are no one's actually thinking that this is still things that we have to deal with internally do you know interestingly though there was another question that was asked so basically the three questions that were pretty polarizing were stand up if you're in a relationship stand up if you're not in a relationship and you want to be and stand up if you're in a relationship but the relationship you're in you want to be out of and there was a

lot of people who stood up so I think and there were a lot of laughs on that one too but it was because their husband was right there anyhow it was a once in a lifetime thing we loved it but Laura you also had a date of your own on the weekend that was a bit left field a once in a lifetime thing well I mean we had a little cute park day I went to the park yeah with the kids It's not just by myself because that would be weird. With Osher Gunzberg and his wife and their beautiful son, Wolfie. And I'm pretty certain that Wolfie and Marley are going to get married. That's where we are.

Starting the Bachelor Young, ladies and gentlemen. Could you imagine if Osher's son marries your daughter? I'd be pretty keen on it and make a good story. I mean, and like Audrey and Osher, they're such great people. Did you just run into them at the park? No, Osher texts me and he was like, want to go to the park on the weekend? We both live, we all live in Bronte and we've been saying it for so long that we should get the kids together.

and then finally we we did and it was absolutely the best day ever it was like so nice we all went and rode the bronte train together it's that thing when you run into someone right you're always like hey we should catch up we should definitely get the kids together but you never do it it's like that throwaway comment but you guys actually did we actually did it do you act like the bachelor never happened and you're just friends and you talk about current projects and what you're doing in life now or do you throw back to the bachelor memories or ask questions about it because i okay this is might be weird but I literally spoke to Osher maybe twice in the whole time that we were on the batch he never spoke to me so I had my not personally he didn't really speak to many people

it just doesn't work like that well I mean he spoke to me in like a group setting where he'd come out and be like hello ladies but he never actually spoke to me one-on-one so it wasn't until like well and truly after the show that we ever kind of crossed paths and I guess now because we both work in the podcasting world that we've had more conversations but it's about work rather than it being about bachelor but I was so interested because obviously the new bachelor is coming out with the three main guys three males yeah and it had been advertised for this year then it got bumped for the challenge which was a fucking dreadful idea which is not going well without advertising the bachelor earlier this year with the three bachelors and then it

got bumped to next year so it's playing out from January so I had a lot of questions in terms of like how did it actually work unfortunately Osher is a vault and he gave me nothing because he probably knew that i would talk about it on the podcast he's like hang on a minute he takes his job very seriously which is good it's what you need to do he has yeah unlike non-disclosures and we're like tell us everything okay but i have a question for you brit because you got to interview all three of the bachelors the other week yeah so on kyle and jack last week the three boys came in men i should say they're very very big men they are wildly big men wait like tall so much bigger than you could imagine like it I was looking up to all of them they're big

presences they're big they're broad they're fit they're tall it's way more so than what you see on the ad are they hotter in real life than in the tv they're all super hot they're all super hot yeah so Thomas is the Italian he's in hospitality then we have Jed who is like the blonde rocker like he's like Machine Gun Kelly like the Aussie version of Machine Gun Kelly and then there's Felix, who is the tall basketballer, ex-basketballer with the really white teeth. If you had to pick one of them and you're on that show, who would you pick? Okay, so interesting question. They're all good looking.

They're all lovely. I'm talking purely aesthetics. Which would you pick? Oh, okay, because I already did pick one, but I picked him on personality and quick wit. Okay. Which was Jed. Oh. The rocker.

The machine gun Kelly, yeah. Okay, if you were to pick on looks then, would you still pick Jed? so felix and thomas are both pretty similar in terms of like they're just big tall athletes like they've been they're so muscly one's just more tanned because he's italian so that's thomas i reckon probably felix which one's okay i don't even know basketball i've just told you three times yeah but felix is a tall basketball with the white teeth with the white teeth okay but they're all lovely but what was interesting that i didn't know this season is the first season ever of bachelor or bachelorette australia that you can have sex on the show they can have

sex i'm so not for it i reckon yes it'll make great tv but as a contestant like if i had been on the show and matt had had sex i'd be so off it there's no part of me that okay because like i think that sex right sex either makes someone be more competitive like if you were seeing a guy and then you found out that like you know he was hooking up with someone else it can either completely turn you off or it can make you be like oh I'm get that's a competition that's a prize I'm gonna win him and I think in that instance if Matt had had sex with somebody else nah not happening not interested well it's interesting because the overseas bachelors and bachelorettes like the American ones and I'm assuming European ones but they have sex

it's something that they've done forever Australia's always been the only one that hasn't now we're finally catching up however if you look at the success rates the american success rates for the bachelor as in couples that have longevity the percentage is like 10 in comparison to the australian bachelor which is at like 60 now yeah it's not for me if i would not have even if i had the opportunity on my season i would not have done it i would not have had sex i don't want to have sex on tv it's just not what i wanted to do i also probably would have held something against him if i knew like even if it was subconsciously just in that environment if i knew that like last night he'd been with sally now he's with betty tomorrow night he's taking someone else it just is a

bit of a sour taste in my mouth i understand that the whole premise of the show is you're dating multiple people but personally as an individual i would have been really turned off if i was in that environment every day and he was just sleeping with someone different well and i also think i think from a viewer perspective like this season of batch will be very interesting knowing that they can and probably do have sex with the girls during the house i think that it will be like a saucy thing to watch although i do still think that they'll keep it very very g-rated they'll allude to the fact that someone's had sex you're not gonna see anything it's not pornhub the reason it's also different is the three guys the bachelors they live together in a penthouse

so they've all got their rooms in the penthouse bathrooms there's a big spa and the girls are allowed to just come if the guy wants to bring them back which means the other guys often can see that that girl's coming back with them and now i also yeah there's also apparently a bit of a switcheroo that goes on as well so i think it's kind of a really wild season okay but my thing is about like the whole sex aspect of the bachelor just going back just going back to the sex okay i think the reason why like from a like competitor perspective like so for the girls being in the house, the reason why I think it's a bit problematic is because like one of the things I liked the most is that the relationship was very uncomplicated. Like no one was having sex and it

meant that you actually really had to get to know the person. I had to really get to know Matt without that being something that complicates it. And like as much as, and this is not to say that people can't have sex on a first date. This is not to say that, you know, do whatever you want and whatever suits you. But I do think that sex can complicate a relationship and it can make you feel like you like someone a hell of a lot more than you actually do because there's been that sexual chemistry and that sort of like intimacy that's formed before you actually even know the person I feel like you're talking to me right now I'm not talking to you but also if you feel like this is relating to you that's on you I'm really looking forward to this season to be honest I'm

glad I'm actually glad they rested it for a year because I think it leaves people wanting more well and also that it's just so different I feel like if this isn't the season that brings it back it's gone then it's gone so it's like it either has to be the make or break for them so they've gone so so very very different and I'm sure we'll talk about it more once it kicks off in January but I'm interested to see how this all plays out now before we get any further I feel like it's probably pretty important that we tell you what this episode is about we are talking about something that we've covered before on a different podcast where we interviewed the girls from the American podcast, Girls Gotta Eat, but we're talking about childless by choice. So the reason why we wanted

to do this episode again is because there was some feedback on that episode that we didn't cover it or get as deep into the conversations around why women are making the decision to not have kids. And I guess the thing for us is when we interviewed Raina and Ashley, they were telling their opinions and their thoughts on the topic from their own personal perspectives. And what we realized is that you know there are so many reasons why a woman or a person might decide not to have kids and it's almost like this social expectation that everybody will get to the point in their life where they just will want to have kids it's what society expects of us especially as women but there is a growing number and generation of women who are choosing that maybe having children is not for

them and the backlash that's received the negative conversation that surrounds that is something we really wanted to unpack on this episode yeah and it also came off the back of the facebook discussion group there was a girl that put a comment in the group that sparked a discussion of hundreds of comments just briefly i'll read the start of it the facebook post went does anyone else not want children with age i see friends around me starting their own families and i just don't feel maternal or compelled to have children at all i feel like i would regret it if i did i also feel scared though that i will regret it if i don't i guess i just want to hear from other people who have decided not to have children and what your life looks like. Do you ever wish to go

back on your decisions? It goes on about just being very confused about what it is. They don't feel the pull either way. I resonate with that a lot because that's where I am. I don't know which side of the precipice I want to fall on. I don't know which way I want to be pulled yet because I guess I'm in a strange point in my life where I'm dating, but I'm in my mid thirties, but I'm single. It's a very confusing time for a lot of people. And that really was highlighted in the discussion feed with people saying you know giving opinions from all walks of life and all angles and we found it a really interesting discussion I guess the other part of this and something that is really interesting is that you know there are so many women who I shouldn't say there are so many women

who regret having children I don't think that that's the case necessarily but there are women who have had children and the experience of having children isn't what they expected or they mourn or miss their life pre-kids that's the thing that's like you cannot talk about that because there is so much judgment that's loaded into that and you know if you are somebody who has had children and have moments where you think look like this is not what I thought I signed up for I think it's important to differentiate that you can absolutely fiercely love your children and still mourn what your life used to be like or still mourn that you know you don't have your independence your agency that doesn't make you an inherently selfish person it just means that like you're at a point or maybe

this period of parenting is a really stressful period. The other part of this as well is that it's the backlash that so many women receive when they say that they don't want to have kids. And that was something we really wanted to get into because the fact that there is judgment surrounding this, that one person's life choice seems to impact so many other people, or there's that constant phrase of like, oh, you'll change your mind. And how dismissive that is of someone's life choice is something we really wanted to get into. So we thought the best way to attack this episode was to actually interview three different women who all have their own unique stories and their own unique experiences as to why they've decided that they don't want children. And those

three women are Dani Duncan. Now she speaks quite openly on her social media and TikTok surrounding why she doesn't want to have kids. The other one is Karina Irby, who we have interviewed before. She is a hugely successful entrepreneur. She is the founder behind Moana Bikini, and she recently eloped with her husband and the third woman we're speaking to is janna hocking who is single she's 38 and she is a columnist for news.com now before we get into that part of the episode there is something that i wanted to speak about first britney and what's that have you ever masturbated at work no never what have you ever been well i mean i work for myself that's just it right have you ever been like supposed to have been doing prep work for the podcast or supposed to have

and getting ready for, like, radio and then just decided I might go nut one out first. Not once ever. Never. Never. Never ever. Never. I'm too lazy to masturbate during work because work for me,

it's very unproductive. I'd have to have a nap afterwards. Work for me isn't hot. Like, it's not. I don't. What if you were, like, sexting some sexy man overseas and then you got really randy and then you had to go and just, like, nut one out so that you could concentrate?

That's not work. That's what I do in my private time. Sex someone from overseas. But what if you were sexting whilst you were at work? that's really now i'm definitely not masturbating on the clock also i used to work in a hospital so like that wasn't going to happen either so it's not something that i would ever do but i know it's something that people are starting to do more from this whole work from home thing they're like well i'm stressed i'm gonna go nut one out for a second okay so i came across a research study

which uh revealed uh this was on love honey so i mean i don't know how high end the study is high how high brow okay but 49 of people who answered this said that they have satisfied their sexual needs whilst they should be working. Okay. Well, I'm in the majority then. However, I did do our own polls on Life Uncut because we like to put it out to the brain trust. Now there was three questions I asked. Firstly, very important research. Have you ever masturbated at work? 9% said yes and 91% said no. So look, there's a clear favorite. I think it depends on what you do for work. Like if you're working in a hospital, probably a bit hard. If you're working as a nurse, a bit hard. No, I think it's better people working at home, right? People are marketing call. You're

like I'm just going to advertise something for a second then you're like oh just you know 10 meeting 10 minutes before a meeting well I did change it to if you're working from home have you ever just masturbated on the clock so have you ever been paid to rub one out 34 percent of people said yes they will happily and very often masturbate from home if they are working from home can you please swipe up on that just see producer Keisha said yes because I'm not paying that girl to masturbate what'd she say i reckon she would producer keisha did you masturbate from work i bet you she did today would you masturbate during work hours oh good delay it means that you would okay how long does it take you sometimes sometimes

working with you guys is very stressful is it horny though sometimes sometimes what what part of us is horny it's when i talk about my seven minute sex sessions isn't it also can i just make a real point of this you get paid by the hour you don't get paid a day rate so you don't get a bonus for masturbation i like how annoyed brit is but look i think you know i think you're taking this a little too seriously post nut clarity very real thing sometimes to be creative you've got to clear the mind i disagree with this i mean i think that if i masturbated at work i'd need to have a nap So that there goes like two hours of my day. I'm not masturbating and then getting back up and being like, well, Bobby, sorry, I'm

back on the meeting. Like that's not happening. I'm rolling over and going to bed. Do you feel more tired after it? I feel energized. Oh no, I want to clock off. That's me done. I want to go up in a ball, have a little smoothie and go to bed.

Have a smoothie after you masturbate. Yeah. I want to eat. I want to go to bed in a food coma and a masturbation coma. Wow. No, I'm just going to go to sleep. Smoothie was random. Maybe he's a Toblerone.

imagine masturbating and then rolling over afterwards going god i need a smoothie now like it's tiring okay so i can i go back to work now you mean masturbation or i'll just be in the other room yeah there's a reason keisha's like hey guys i just need to duck out for a minute okay so i had a few of you guys right back to the question of have you masturbated at work and look do you know what if you have don't feel shame because a lot of you said yes i'm just gonna read out a couple of these responses real quick i know of someone who told her boss that she needed a masturbation break at the job interview and she still got the job what was the job for was it writing for love honey though imagine if you were like hey instead of a smoker i'd just like 15

minutes a day to go and masturbate okay do you know what i think i'm gonna put this out there if you want to masturbate in your lunch break or your coffee break or if you can about a smoke break well if you can get it done in your toilet break at the time you can do a poop go for it you can do whatever you want but i don't want to pay my staff to go and rub one out while i'm doing the work okay in a toilet cubicle because it's a fucking stress reliever is what this one person wrote there is nothing relieving about sitting in a public toilet masturbating but all for it no okay another one working from home obviously it is a stress relief for me too and a motivation to finish the day and i'm kind of here for that one i was very horny before work i had to go in i

couldn't concentrate so therefore i went to the bathroom and silently went to town are these all women these are all women wearing men not no men yet wearing jeans and they rubbed just in the right spot so i wiggled around for a bit in my office chair and boom if only having an orgasm was that easy what if you are wriggling in your chair you are wonder woman if you can do a little wriggle and come in your chair tell me how also i'm loving that she came sitting in her office at her desk like this look like let me just say the overwhelming response to this is that most of y'all who are masturbating go to the bathroom at work and nut one out and let me just tell you this I'm proud of you well also your boss isn't gonna know are they like you're working from home

as long as you're productive enough I suppose I don't think I'm silent enough I think I'd make too much noise do you are you yeah I'm vocal not like I'm not squealing I'm not like a little pig like that's not the noises you're going to hear coming from the room but i think i would like make some audible noises that are not just what kind of noise lauren oh dear well that one that's it because that's not sexy all right let's get into accidentally i'm filtered all right i'm gonna kick it off with my story and it is this for five years i worked at the sydney airport as a check-in chick it was pretty common for some guys to hit on me from time to time but the majority of the time I was in a relationship or mostly just uninterested in them. But this one

time when I was very single, a super cute guy came up to the counter. So, you know, I checked him in as normal and we were having a pretty friendly chat. I mean, nothing out of the ordinary. It wasn't particularly flirty, but it was a really nice chat. And as I printed out his boarding pass, I heard him say, your smile is seriously beautiful. When I tell you I lit the fuck up what a kind compliment from this absolutely glorious man i exclaimed with flush cheeks oh that's so sweet thank you so much and for some reason he didn't really respond or say anything and just kind of looked a little bit confused anyway no matter i was in a put yourself out there he's hitting on you kind of mood so i quickly and courageously wrote my number on

the back of his ticket with my name get it girl i handed it back to him and gave him a see you later this guy leaves and I pat myself on the friggin back because this girl does not flirt well normally one minute later I see him walking back up to me and I reckon I'm in with a chance and he says hey I think you might have misheard me I said before that an aisle seat would be seriously beautiful I actually have a girlfriend sorry what take care best believe that that was the last time I ever tried to flirt with a passenger or anyone no your eyes are seriously beautiful an aisle seat would be seriously beautiful but why would he come back what a dickhead just to tell you you're wrong why would you come back just pretend that you lost the form

with a number on it and never called again you're not going to come back and say just so you know didn't say that what if he was there with his girlfriend his girlfriend was like you were flirting and then she made him go back no she would have known if the girlfriend was standing next to him or maybe she was standing near the bubbler no you're maybe you're being optimistic he's a dickhead it was unnecessary okay all right brittany what is yours i recently started a new job on my third day we had a big staff meeting in the office where all our interstate big ass representatives came one of the other girls that i had been shadowing introduced me to a very important older man when he came in we said hello and shook hands a second later he leaned in as if

to give me a kiss on the cheek you know as some people do when they say hello in the moment i thought wow this is a bit strange in a work setting and I just left it at a handshake we literally just said hello but I didn't want to be rude so I just went in and gave him a kiss on the cheek he pulled away quickly and looked at me with a strange look turns out he was leaning past me to say hello to another employee that was standing beside me somehow ended up kissing me instead fucking dead he's like leaned around with his hand to shake and she's gone in for a makeout Even though they've already shook hands and said hello. Kiss him again on the cheek.

Like as if it's a triple hello. They're not even in Europe. Come on. Mate, you know when someone comes in for a cheek kiss but they accidentally put their face to the wrong side and then you almost kiss them on the lips? You know that awkward? Mate, it happened yesterday at our street Christmas party.

I have these lovely neighbours and they're so nice and they're across the road. So you thought you'd make out with them? And I kissed the wife goodbye and then I went to kiss the guy goodbye on the cheek and he put his head the wrong way and then we did these awkward like almost on the lips thing and we're just not that close and it was fucking weird. Do you know what?

And then I had to walk away with my two children like embarrassed. Do you know what? You just reminded me of what I did last week. Last weekend I went out with some really good friends and they brought their friends. Now I've met these extra friends twice, right? So I know them but we're not close. We all had this dinner and they were coming back to Bondi,

the husband and wife. they were like hey do you want to just jump in our taxi and I was like of course that would be amazing we'll share because we're in the city the husband was in the front seat and I was in the back seat with the wife and then they dropped me off first so when the taxi pulled up I leant over to her and I gave her like a cuddle and a kiss I was like thank you for tonight you know it was lovely to see you again and then he turned around and he went picture from the front seat you go to turn around and so one um turns back over the seat to look back at me yeah and i don't know why so i grabbed his hand and kissed him kissed his hand like i was in 1970 courting someone

i kissed him on the hand and i was like thank you for tonight and then i was like i'm so sorry i don't know why i did that in front of his wife as well i'm glad that we've both been particularly weird in this last week i don't know why and he's like it's okay and i'm like okay bye i was like And then I messaged our mutual friend. I said, I just kissed Steve on the hand. I don't know why I did that. Will you ever see them again? This afternoon, yes.

All right, let's get into the chat with Dani Duncan. Dani Duncan is a content creator who lives in Christchurch with her husband, and she's been outspoken on her Instagram and also on TikTok about her decision to be child-free and wanting to have more conversations about the topic. Dani, when did you feel as though you decided that children weren't in your plans or is this something that you've always felt no I didn't always think that I wouldn't want to have children so I'm 32 and it's only really been in the last

I would say year that I've not decided oh I don't want kids because I had decided I did want them I think it was just the default like I think for many women it is that you grow up and you think I'm gonna have children one day and that was me so I grew up thinking I'm always gonna have children and then me and my husband kind of like kept putting it off kept putting it off like when we would want to have them and then all of a sudden one day I just thought I think it just popped into my head like maybe I don't want to have them for a lot of different reasons and then it started what's been a good year of me thinking about this I would say every single day and it went from me being very unsure and like keep flipping pros and cons and like what if I regret

it but then what if I have kids and I realized this is really not what I wanted to do and then slowly over this past year I've definitely gone to the no I definitely don't want to have kids so it wasn't like an immediate thing where I thought oh I'm 100% not going to have them it's just been very much a process of me figuring out what do I actually want I think what you touched on there is interesting because we have a societal expectation that that's what we're going to do from the time we're little girls and you know that one day you're going to grow up get married have a house with a picket fence pop out some babies the whole kit and caboodle but I think until our generation we haven't really ever questioned that as a choice more so than it's

sort of just what you're expected to do what were some of the reasons that you thought having kids probably wasn't for you well it's definitely not that I don't like kids and I think that that's what people assume is like the first thing oh she must hate kids and I get that all the time but it's not that I've always been someone that loves kids like if I'm at a party and there's babies and kids there I'm the one hanging out with the babies and so I think that naturally led me to think oh of course I'm going to be a mum but I think the biggest thing for me is my lifestyle I am quite an independent person and I guess I like to have control over what I'm doing in my life my day I mean because I work for myself as well my day is very it's not like a nine to

five job it's all over the show sometimes I'm on a plane going somewhere sometimes I don't work for the day sometimes I'm working on the weekend so I wouldn't say it's a normal job and so I love my career I love my lifestyle I don't want that to change I have a lot of respect for parents so my sister-in-law and my sister are both parents and I have so much respect for them but I look at their lives and the sacrifice you make for your children and I just think I just don't want to do that like I don't want to have no sleep and be changing nappies all the time and like my parents were amazing they're the kind of parents that just did everything for us kids and I would want to be that type of parent if I was a parent but I don't want to I don't want to do it and how about your

husband did he come to the same sort of conclusion at the same time yeah I would say after me so we both went into our relationship in our marriage thinking one day but not anytime soon and then I brought it up with him first we actually had a really good conversation about it the other day because we keep checking in with each other I obviously talk about it a lot more than he talks about it and I also think that as a woman as the person that's got to grow the baby and birth the baby and feed the baby there is a lot more expectations and responsibility on me especially in those first couple of years so I think naturally I am thinking about it a lot more but yeah we had of really good conversation the other day and we're both on the same page of we 100% don't want

kids right now but we aren't 100% about what the future holds but I kind of think nobody can be because the person that I was five years ago is not the same person I am now I don't know who I'm going to be in five years I very much doubt that my mind will change but we're both of the mindset that say in five years time things look completely different and we're like oh no we actually do want to do it then we would have that conversation like we're not scared of change we're not scared of our minds changing but we can only make a decision based on where we're at now and we both we don't think we're going to want them at all we're both on the same page which thank goodness yeah I mean having children is I mean it's one of the most crucial things that you have to be on the

same page with with your partner because it is the thing that is one of the biggest make or breaks in a relationship and it's a huge deal breaker for so many people I want to circle back on something that you mentioned a little bit earlier you said that you're one of the first people at a party to play with the kids how does it make you feel when people see that and then their reaction to seeing you interact with children is you know oh but you'd make such a good mum so people have said this to me before and I didn't really have an argument but I had someone comment something similar on something that I'd written the other day and she said oh well you should just take it as a compliment but if you are saying if someone knows that you're making a decision not to have

children and you've clearly said I don't want to have kids and then they say oh but you would be such a good mother it's almost like they're saying that your decision isn't valid like that they don't respect it enough to go that's enough and so when someone says to me oh but you would be such a good mother to me it feels like they don't respect my decision like that's honestly what it feels like it feels like they see my decision and they go that's not good enough and the way that I see it is if I was to flip that and if I was to say to someone that really wanted to get pregnant oh but you would be such a good child-free person like that's so rude you wouldn't say that to somebody I personally find it insensitive and rude I think people do have good intentions when

they say it but I don't think they're really thinking about how the other person feels um so yeah I hate the whole thing like this girl said to me oh but you know we mean well and we're trying to give you a compliment but it doesn't feel like a compliment when you're going you're saying exactly the opposite of the thing that I want to do with my life I don't know it just doesn't sit right with me yeah and it's almost like you have to then give credit to your own opinions because they're not taken at face value yeah yeah I think that the comments like oh but when you meet the right person or you know you'll change your mind eventually I feel like they're really patronizing because there's this level of not respecting your decision and just thinking

that hey it's this really naive opinion I think that what I've been learning from having because I've been talking about this online for a year now and so I have heard it all from people and I think that along the way it's been clear that there's people that are saying these things and get almost a little bit insulted I think it's that they think that my decision has some kind of reflection on their decision like I'm saying I don't want to be a parent because it's something to do with them which has got literally nothing to do with them and even I think that some people might be a little bit offended or triggered because potentially they didn't think about if they wanted to have children at the time I do think that there's a lot of people out there that

have had kids because that's what you do I've actually had people say that to me like if I was to go back maybe I wouldn't have had my kids I love my kids all of that but maybe if I was to go back so yeah I just don't think people really know what it feels like to be in my position when they say those kinds of things I think it's crazy to me that we or some people can feel personally victimized by other people's choices like we take it to offense I mean I'm a mum of two kids and I would never take it to a fence that somebody else doesn't want to have kids just in the same way that even though I love the experience of being a mum I'm never going to try and force that upon someone else because you know what's great for one person is completely different for someone else

we all have our own life experiences to live and I mean talking about life experiences have you ever been in a situation where one of your friends has been struggling with fertility and being that you've made the choice not to have children is it challenging to have that conversation with someone who desperately wants kids my best friend in the whole world is two years into the journey of trying to get pregnant and she can't I didn't actually think I was going to get emotional so I see her at least once a week we talk all of the time and I cannot wait for the day when she says she's going to be a mom like oh my gosh I'm going to be Auntie Danny I'm so excited and it's so interesting because we're best friends and we are on completely different

paths like I don't want kids she desperately wants kids but at this stage hasn't been able to have them people have no idea that I've got that beautiful relationship in my life because I haven't talked about it and they say things like oh it's so insensitive to people that can't have children and yet my best friend sees my messages and sees what I'm sharing online and she is my number one supporter anytime I get hate she messages me she's going to be such a good bum because she like has my back 100% and we just constantly check in with each other like she 100% has my back in my decisions she respects that she has a lot of empathy for me when people are giving me hate and then the flip side like I have such huge respect for her and what she's

going through I check in with her like is my content okay like is this okay what I'm sharing because she sees it and she's just said to me over and over again like Danny this is what people need because some people won't be able to have children and they need to see that side of life celebrated and shared as if it's like a really awesome thing so yeah we just check in with each other all the time and she says to me interestingly that the things that trigger her online is actually all of the baby posts and all of the baby showers and baby announcements but she also says you know whenever I'm triggered by that I just know that I need to take myself off social media she's like it's not their problem it's just I need to yeah so yeah I have that really beautiful relationship

and I think it's almost ironic that we're best friends wanting completely different things but it just shows you that like you can have respect for each other and celebrate each other despite it being such a different journey. Dani, you mentioned before that your sister has children. And, you know, a lot of the time when we see these conversations happening online and people tend to say that it's their parents that make them feel guilty for not having kids because their parents are wanting grandchildren. Do you think that if your sister didn't have children and you were the reason that your

parents didn't have grandchildren, would you carry a sense of guilt for that? Or would you feel a sense of responsibility to provide grandchildren to your parents? it's hard to know because I'm not in that context like my parents do have grandchildren already I'm actually the oldest child and so my siblings have kind of like done the other adult things before me take them on for the team but yeah I've talked to people that are in that position where they are like an only child or they know their siblings not going to have children and they do feel guilt and they do get pressure from their parents which I understand why it happens but if you're having children just to give your parents grandchildren like I just think that's

not the best reason to have children I do understand the guilt around it and I do understand you know if my parents didn't have the opportunity to be grandparents 100% I see what my mum is like as a grandparent and she's amazing and they would miss out on that and that would suck but at the end of the day it's not a big enough reason to have children something that I think is really interesting and it came up in our Facebook group is there was a woman and she had made the decision that she didn't want to have kids. But basically, instead of saying that she didn't want to have children, she lied and said that she wasn't able to have children because that conversation was easier for her than to try and explain to people that she didn't want to have

them. Have you ever chosen to lie about your choice or have you always felt like it's been easier for you to just be honest and say that children aren't in your life plan? yes people have definitely told me that they do that because I think people aren't happy enough with you just saying I don't want kids they want your reasons they want you to defend yourself they want it all and they're not owed that and so sometimes it's easier just to go I can't have them I personally haven't done that but only because this is a topic I'm very passionate about so I'm happy to go into depth but there have been times when I've heard my husband has been ask questions and I've been nearby and I know that the conversation is going to include me soon and I

can hear it and I will walk away because I'm like I just can't be bothered right now I'm out of here another thing mentioned in the group was the question of well have you thought about what you're going to do when you're older and who's going to look after you when you're old and no one can change your undies and change your diapers and that kind of a thing I get that a lot like what are you going to do when you're older and something that actually other people have very much highlighted for me and I'm like that's so true is if you're having children just so they can look after you when you're older that's like quite a selfish reason to have children and like that's only at the end of your life like are you really willing to go through years of

raising children just so they may look after you because the truth is there's a lot of old people that just get chucked in an old home never see their families the other kind of aspect to it is just because I won't have children to look after me doesn't mean I'm not going to be surrounded by friends like my nieces and nephews my siblings like there's just so many different meaningful connections that people can have in life apart from like that parent-child relationship and the other thing is and that I kind of joke about is I'll have the money like I'm not spending on kids I'm gonna have the money to put myself up in some bougie place where I will be paying other people's children to look after me. So it's also there. Danny, something that you shared on your

own Instagram is how a lot of the things that we celebrate past a certain age have to do with either romantic love or kids. But they're kind of the two things that we really hero as successes in our lives. And these are things like, you know, engagement parties and baby showers and hen's parties and weddings. And I mean, we obviously have things like milestone birthdays as well. But as someone who wants to remain child free, what other things do you have in your life that you mark as celebrations or things that you think that we should be celebrating instead of just the achievement of having kids? I think this has been something that I've been very intentional about this year. So even this weekend, me and my friends are putting on a little party for my

friend who's just graduated. I'm planning on doing a child-free party just to kind of show like you can celebrate your life as child-free as well. I just think even if someone does have children and is getting married I think it's still so important to celebrate especially women for the other things in their life not just to do with babies and love graduations adopting a pair leaving a bad relationship I would have loved to have a divorce party when I got divorced but to me it didn't I don't know no one was like excited about that so I was like oh maybe I won't I wish I did now I look back and I'm like I wish I did that like that was such an important part of my life just I don't know anything really that's important to someone that someone values I think we need to notice that

more in our friends and celebrate it and I think you've got to be really intentional about that because in life generally the main things that are celebrated are birthdays marriages and babies and there's not a lot of else that's celebrated unless you're really intentional about it my sister she's just had a baby and I reckon she's one of the people in my life that is very intentional about noticing my life like noticing the things I share about my life we've got a family chat and anytime I share anything like I shared about the fact that I was coming on this podcast and she's like oh my gosh that's so cool like she goes out of her way to celebrate me and it means a lot and I think it means a lot because that doesn't normally happen but hopefully the more

I have these kinds of conversations the more kind of podcasts are out there like this the more it just becomes normal. We've spoken, I mean, obviously quite a bit about your reasons for not having children, but also because you speak about this so often and so publicly across your own social media, I can imagine that you have received so many comments and stories from other people who have also chosen to be child-free. What are some of the other reasons that people have given you for their choices to remain child-free? Financial reasons is a big reason for people mental health reasons a lot of people feel like they don't have the capacity to look fully after themselves let alone somebody else body image reasons or like things to do with their

bodies a woman's body goes through a lot when she gets pregnant and there can be birth injuries and a lot that happens a lot of people are struggling with body stuff enough as it is and don't want to go through that and I actually personally I posted about this but that's something that I very much consider is I'm not sure I want to put myself through that you know people have a lot of reasons but people also don't have to have reasons it can simply be that they just don't want to have children some people don't like kids and I think that's fine you know like if you don't want to have kids and someone's forcing you to have children it's kind of messed up so yeah I think people have reasons and then simply it's just I just don't want to have kids and that should be

enough. Okay next up we're chatting with Karina Irby now Karina is actually from my hometown of Port Macquarie but she's a swimwear designer, a very successful swimwear designer. She's the owner of the brand Moana Bikini. She currently lives on the Gold Coast with her husband Ryan. Now her and Ryan don't necessarily do things in a conventional way but I absolutely love that about them. They recently got married on a very small beautiful remote island and they did it their way with Karina wearing a very beautiful bikini because it's just what felt right to her. Recently Karina has been very open on social media to her over 1.2 million followers about not seeing children in her and her husband Ryan's future Karina the reason why we wanted to speak to you obviously

we're doing this deep dive in the conversation around being childless by choice but the reason why we want to speak to you is because you have such an interesting I guess it's interesting in terms of like where you're at in your life you just recently got married you are what I would think people would typically look at and go oh yeah the next logical thing for them to do would be to have kids but the reason why I wanted to speak to you is because after your wedding you posted a photo on your social media account and I could not believe the backlash that you received when you made the comment on your social media that you were wanting to you and Ryan have made the decision that you don't want to have kids and I want to read some of those out this is a picture

of you and Ryan together looking very happy as a couple and you have a sexy photo it's a very sexy photo and there are some comments that you have overlaid which you received women are here to reproduce so stop with your opinions and just reproduce fuck as a person who can't have kids i'm offended to hear that you want to be childless because it's a blessing following to say i told you so when you fall pregnant it's a blessing to have children and you will understand that one day how does it make you feel to receive that sort of criticism for a life decision that you've made even hearing you read all that out actually just I don't know if it makes me so in like so furious or just so sad that this is other people's opinions on I guess what the female body should

be doing with its life it's just crazy to me yeah and like this is only the start of it I've only read a quarter of the comments that are here no kids you'll change your mind I guess where I want to start this is understanding what was it that led you and Ryan to the decision that you know maybe having children isn't for you and for your relationship yeah actually Ryan and I were only discussing this the other day when all this blew up and you know the media got hold of it there was this huge talking point which actually kind of shook me because I'm like why is this such a big topic like why is it such a big deal that we aren't interested in children Ryan and I did a little chat and he never really thought too much about kids we've been together for eight years and

then as our relationship progressed we just got busier with other projects where we love to live our selfish life, to sleep in, to travel, we've got our dogs. And it's just kind of progressed that, you know what, love kids, but maybe that journey just simply isn't for us. And we're fine with that. So do you feel like it's something that has only come up for discussion at this point of your life because of your business and because of your partner or looking back to your teenage years and your early twenties and womanhood, was it always something you thought would happen? Were you always like, I'm not that maternal. I don't think I'll have them. And again, I actually did some deep thinking into this as well. And I was also the kind of

little girl that didn't fantasize or dream about a wedding or kids it was just never really put back into me and I don't know if that's kind of because I grew up in quite a broken family I also don't have any siblings I'm an only child so I just feel like I've always kind of enjoyed that loner lifestyle in a sense it's kind of made me who I am today and maybe that's what's also shaped me but I just yeah I don't think I ever really had it in me to want to have children. How does it make you feel when people say oh you'll change your mind oh my goodness well that annoys me my mom used to say that to me all the time and if anything that would kind of almost I'd want to rebel a bit I'm like no watch me I'm not gonna have them you know it makes me angry now because

I'm pretty solid with my decision and so is Ryan and I don't feel like I should be made a mockery of because we're choosing to not do that even if you do change your mind even if now you say it's not for me for the next five years. And even if you did, that's okay as well. Like people, ebbs and flows in life, different circumstances. And I'm not saying you will, but I'm saying the people that write to you with this stupid opinion. Do you think that people take it as a personal insult? So for example, you know, me having children, I have two little kids, a three-year-old and a one and a half year old. Do you think that other women take it as an insult to their life decisions that you've chosen not to do what they've done? I didn't up until only recently

when I received all this backlash. And there was a lot more of that in my DMs as well. A lot of women were venting to me the struggles of falling pregnant and that they've been going through IVF. And, you know, I was getting a lot of big novels, so to speak, and not all of them were necessarily rude, but they did have that judgmental tone about it because they might've been in a situation of struggles. I guess like in terms of, and I think it's so interesting where you're at in your life, because, you know, I mentioned it earlier, but I do think that there's almost this expectation that once you get married that people get married and that they you know solidify their relationship because it's then the next step that they're going to take which is to have children and you've

obviously chosen against that has there been people in your life apart from your mom who have really found that decision making unusual to them or they've pushed back on you for it no which is good I definitely don't have any friends that have pushed back I had a few you may change your mind but I think it was just kind of a conversation like a little bit of a joke but every one of my friends completely understands and respects my decision and I'm very thankful. Do you feel like there's a level of delegitimizing the idea and the term of a family the way people use it now don't you want a family one day I just think the idea that people throw away this comment of oh you only have a family if you have children to be quite infuriating and

condescending. Oh absolutely because a family can look like anything depending on the individual like my two chihuahuas and my cockatiel they are my family I feel you my dog I'm like I have a huge family mean Delilah absolutely and families look different to everybody you know it doesn't mean you've got a mummy and a daddy and two kids in a picket fence like for some people that's family and for other people it looks different and I think that that needs to be talked about a lot more how did it make you feel when you received all this backlash I mean I know that you said that you didn't realize that it was going to be so enormous that the backlash would come so swift and so fast and having the huge platform that you do have that when you say something that

seemingly to other people is controversial, the responses come flooding in. What was that like for you? Oh, I was absolutely shocked. I'm pretty confident that I couldn't pick my jaw up off the ground at one point. I'm like, hang on a second. What is this? I actually would love to have asked the question on my social media. Everybody says, why don't you want kids? But I would love to ask why do you want kids you know like it doesn't and that question mark doesn't need to be a sassy negative one because that's the kind of question mark I get a lot it can just be an open thing where it's like that's great but you know why do you want kids you know like I feel like that's the question that we should be asking as well I think for me partly it was because my

partner really wanted to have kids like I have grown in my motherhood journey and I fucking love being a mom but had I not met Matt and not met someone who was so eager to become a dad I probably would never have pursued it on my own do you mean like I never wanted to be a mom on my own but whereas I know that there's some people who they were born to be moms and they'll pursue that journey regardless but what is your answer to that when you get asked why do you not want to have kids why don't you want to have kids honestly I'm booked I'm busy Moana Moana is my baby I live and breathe my business and I'm not embarrassed to say that people have also found it controversial when I've said Moana is my baby they've taken that quite literally and said look Karina a business

isn't a human and then they have gone on to educate me the differences between business and children oh thank you yes and I'd like to add I am aware I do one of my best friends actually has a one and a half year old like I can understand but for me personally in my journey with my business like I can't take my eye away from it I have to feed it I have to water it I have to nurture it, walk it through hard times. Like this is for me, this is my boy, this is our baby. This is Ryan's as well. He works here as well. So I guess it's just a different perspective. Yeah. And I also think the important thing as well as in this conversation is that we live in a time where the rise of the female entrepreneur is something that has never happened in another

generation. There are so many women who are at the head of their very successful businesses, who were also the breadwinners in their households and the setback that having children can have on what career progression is able to be achieved for a woman it's a huge setback and I guess that there is this expectation that as women because we're women because we have hormones we should be okay with taking that setback because having children should be more important to us but who is the one who makes that decision about what is important to an individual yeah well isn't that an amazing question because everybody has a different opinion at the end of the day it's your body and it's your life and you're the only one that can really make that decision from your heart.

Now, the final guest we're speaking to around this conversation about being child-free is Jana Hocking. Jana is a columnist for news.com, the New York Post, and also the New Zealand Herald. And Jana wrote an article titled, I never want to have a baby and I'm happy being child-free. Jana is 38 and currently navigating the dating world. Jana, how did you, and when did you start to consider that maybe children just weren't for you feel like I knew it from the day I was born like I just never had that maternal instinct and I remember at school you know when you'd play with your dolls and everyone would like you know you'd be with your girlfriend saying like oh I hope I marry Peter and we're gonna have six kids and we're gonna I just never had it I just was always

like where will I find the time to do all the other stuff I want or what about like my hopes and goals. It was always at the bottom of my to-do list. And enough people told me, my parents growing up, my friends. I remember one guy at work turning to me once and he goes, oh, you just haven't met the right guy yet. And you'll change your mind when you meet the love of your life. But then I did meet the love of my life and he was desperate for kids and it still just never kicked in. And it actually gives me anxiety, the thought of having my own children. I would feel locked in to something that I just know instinctively in my gut that I just don't want I read your article that you wrote and one of the things I found really interesting is that and you

touched on just then that you did meet the love of your life but something that you had mentioned was that you actually went through a period where you guys were trying but it dawned on you that you know maybe you were trying to have a baby not for yourself but to keep your partner to make them happy for their own needs and wishes. How was that realization that you were pursuing potentially having a baby, but it wasn't even for you? That was a really interesting time and a real come to Jesus moment for me. Like this guy I had been in love with for a million years and we'd been on and off and then he moved overseas and then I moved away and then we finally got our it together he moved back to Australia we were on we had matured we were on the right path and so

we were like all right let's give this a crack and he had said from the start I want a child I want a child I like you know that's a definite for me and I think you know when you just get so caught up in love and you know this guy is just your everything we've all had that one guy that you're like, here's my heart and soul. And it was like the universe had opened up and said, here's your second chance. I'm going to hand it to you on a platter. And so we started trying. And I remember there was a stage where I was like, oh God, okay, I'm ovulating. Okay, I could be. And there was like this weird 24 hours where I was like, oh my God, did I just get pregnant? Like, could I be pregnant? And it was the first time in my life where I think I actually had a

proper panic attack and I just remember pulling up to the closest chemist I could find getting the morning after pill and I just felt this instant sense of like oh thank god and so I came back and I was just really honest with him because it took me by surprise as well because I was always like I don't want kids I don't want kids but it wasn't until I was really faced with it that I went oh no like I genuinely genuinely in my core don't want kids because I don't even want kids with the love of my life and so of course I told him and he broke up with me and it was sad but there was still that sense of relief and I've never had regret for doing that. What was it like losing somebody who you say is the love of your life over the fact that their life goals having

children didn't align with yours? It's pretty wild because within a year he had had a child with someone else. So I kind of go, okay, well, it makes it easier knowing deeply that like, I didn't put myself in a position that would have been lifelong with someone who potentially wasn't. It hurt, like it really hurt, but I still know that it was definitely the right thing. Well, I also think it's one of those things where love can conquer a lot of mismatches and it can make you think that you can overcome anything, but there are some things in life that no matter how much you love someone if you're not on the same page fundamentally it just cannot work out jenna what's it been like for you in terms of how other people have perceived your decision

because there is so much stigma that surrounds being a female and deciding that you don't want to have children it's almost like people think like either like you said earlier that you'll change your mind or like that that's an unnatural position to have have you received backlash from say your family or your friends or relationships totally you know i've been at family events and had a family member kind of corner me and tell me all the things I'm missing out on and oh tick tock your fertility clock's ticking I've had my mom like consistently offered to pay to freeze my eggs I've had my brother call up and say I put money aside let's just freeze your eggs in case you change your mind and I'm like no I'm never like it's guttural like it's in my gut I know

that I'm never going to change my mind like as another example I've got one friend in a similar the boat to me she never wanted kids and she said the best day of her life was turning 45 so that people would stop asking her when she was going to have kids because then it's that awkward thing where it's like they're not going to ask you because they're aware that you know you're of an age now where you're probably out of that TikTok fertility situation and I thought yep I can't wait for that day when people stop asking. Okay well speaking of not wasting your time how do you navigate dating because it's the kind of thing you really want to be aligned on are you open about not wanting to have kids on dates do you scoot around the bush yeah I'm very open with it

I thankfully have a dating column so if they want to find anything out about me they can which can really work not in my favor but I'm very open with it the weird thing is like I am 38 and what people forget is it also means that I'm dating guys that have already had kids like I'm dating guys that they've got their kids half the week or on weekends or things like that and I'm not against that like I would marry a guy who already has kids and I'll shower them with presence and love but I just don't want them full time for me if that makes sense so like I'm never worried about scaring off a bloke that does want kids because that guy clearly wasn't for me in the first place because the fight we're going to have on the first date I'd rather have it then than

have it 10 years down the track. And what about for you in terms of friendships or women who are in your closed network who may be struggling with fertility? Is it challenging for you to have that conversation around, I don't want to have children with somebody who's desperately trying to have children? Totally. And I think just like it's rude to ask someone where they're at with kids and whether they want them. I also think it's rude to bring it up around someone that you know is struggling with kids like I'm not sitting there propped up at the bar ranting on about why I don't want kids to someone who I know is trying or anyone really like the only time I really talk about it is if someone asks me and then I'm happy to tell them all my thoughts and feelings like

I'm glad I wrote that article about it just because it gave me life just to get so many beautiful messages of other women who were like oh my god I thought I was the only one that thought about that but I get that there's you know women out there with fertility issues and I'm certainly not ranting to them about my thoughts and feelings it is something that's personal but it's something that can be less personal and needs to be spoken about without judgment and without any prejudice or trying to push one person's beliefs on someone else so I mean it's awesome that you are so open and happy to be the person that says you know I'm comfortable and confident who I am without having children yeah and I think the more we do talk about it the more normal it will get and

people won't feel shame I hate that word shame around their life decisions all right guys you know that we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet our highlight and our low light of each and every week Brittany Hockley you can kick it off what was your suck this week okay my suck it's it's a bit of a running suck but I'm just gonna say it we won't dwell on it Delilah is on the longest heat of her entire existence it's really causing me buster really wanted to mount oh my god buster saw her even with his three legs he was trying to get up there like nothing was stopping him particularly funny because like he's buster's eight and a half a bit of an age gap between the two of them um he has never ever ever ever ever had sex in his

eight and a half years and he tried he really gave it a red hot go she is putting out we're Like the Pied Piper. We all go down the street and all the dogs come out. Because he can't mount because he's got only one arm at the front. So he slips off the side of her. Yeah. So luckily. Could you imagine little mini busters?

Delilah's very cute. Deluster. That's what they're called. That would be their name. Their famous name. Deluster. Delilah. Yeah.

Anyway, that's the suck with the Pied Piper. Everywhere we go. Because she can't go for lead at the moment. When will you now get her to sext? Apparently you have to wait like a month after the heat. But I cannot go through another one of these. it was it was so much worse than I thought and she's got to wear nappies just because because other dogs want to have sexy times well that's the bad part oh and they bleed you just wear nappies

it's like she wore some body bodies for a while I'm not sponsored but it was funny anyway my suite I reckon is going to happen in 10 minutes when we finish this I'm going to go with my I've got a little group of friends they're having a Christmas party and we're going out on a boat it's a beautiful day in Sydney so a bunch of people I haven't seen in a while so it's gonna be really nice it hasn't happened yet but I'm pre-empting that it's my sweet but what was your sweet for last week because I'm not gonna be your sweet for this week oh last week was wild like I don't even remember Esther Perel Esther was great yeah Esther was not it was nice to go out with you and Keisha as well we never do that it was so nice going to McDonald's and Rudy Hill with you I loved our

dinner date and because also I ate so much I got nuggets burgers chips drinks I was you know when you think you're starving so you order the whole menu and then you realize actually you probably didn't need that much all right well my suck for the week is that I actually have tonsillitis and i'm heading to the doctors after this so you're heading to a boat party and i'm heading to the doctors yay but i'm doing fine and my my sweet for the week is that we had our street this is so lame but so cute our little street i live in a dead-end cul-de-sac and we had like a street christmas party where all the kids were out on the street and everyone kind of like got to mingle and know each other and it just feels like covid is such a thing of the past the fact that we were

isolated for so long and now our whole street are all like friends and they've got a street whatsapp group and it's just the cutest thing ever could you imagine if i did that i'd get watered down by the neighbor above oh my god we couldn't have a christmas building christmas party no way what's happening there i just avoid her i don't know isn't she putting in a complaint against you she did yeah but i've avoided that too so what's gonna happen i don't know i just guess i'll wait for them to either kick me out or kick you around one of us has gotta go all right well guys if you love the episode we hope that you did please jump onto apple podcast leave us a review a positive one would be fucking amazing and if you think that this episode is one that

would you know help someone or somebody from your friendship group has been having these discussions around being childless by choice by being kid free send them this episode because yeah we'd really love it if you would share it with people who it would matter to don't forget tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog to be friends and share the love because we love love .