Life Uncut - Is anyone up? Revenge porn with Kayla Laws

Episode Date: August 22, 2022

Hello Lifers,On this episode our Brittany is once again MIA so we are joined by the birthday girl Producer Keeshia, who wants to know why does she feel blue on her birthday?Why do we often feel sad at big milestones, that are supposed to be happy days?We also unpack the opinion piece published in Psychology Today - The rise of the single lonely men, and is this the reason why there are no dateable men left?Then we get into our chat with Kayla Laws who was a victim of revenge porn, before it even had a name.Kayla is the main focus of Netflix's new docu-series 'The most hated man on the internet', a story that details the insidious website that was prolific in 2010 called 'Is anyone up', a site that coined the term revenge porn and the man who was behind it all - Hunter Moore.If you are looking for more information - where to buy march, tickets to our live show or to pre order We Love Love visit our website.If you loved the episode, you know the drill - Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friends and share the love... because.... WE LOVE LOVE!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode is recorded on Gadigal land of the Aurora Nation. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura and I'm producer Keisha filling in for our gal Brittany. I mean Brittany just didn't come to work again today.

Thanks for having me back. Who's going to step up to the microphone and here she is, producer Keisha. also we received so many dms after last tuesday's episode of like grand concern there was a lot of concern about where brit was and what had happened and i just want to let you guys know that we really can't tell you much but she is completely fine she is thriving and she's doing something super exciting and as soon as she can actually tell you exactly what it is that she's doing she will but until then you are always i cannot tell you how much you were always the first to know yeah guys you learned this about the whole wedding in Bali situation where all of you thought that

Laura was off secretly getting married in Bali she wasn't she wasn't I'm getting married here but I won't tell you exactly what when I say I'll tell you everything like I won't tell you where I'm getting married but apart from that now the weekend was even though Brit wasn't here it was a very big one and the reason for that is because not only was it Brittany Hockley's birthday who knows how old she is she never really tells us the truth about that anyway but it was also producer keisha's birthday and you guys are birthday twins oh i thank you so much and i'm lucky enough to share it with brit and we will celebrate when she returns from her top secret project i just want to know what was happening nine months ago oh it was like christmas time

and new year's so like it's something i've thought about a lot over the years and it's not something i want a picture of my parents who are happily divorced brit's parents still happily married so maybe they're still thinking of those as good times It was the Christmas gift that just kept on giving forever for 29 years. Yeah, 29. I actually do want to unpack a bit to do with that with you and ask you whether you felt a similar way to what I did kind of leading up to my birthday. But I'll get into that because it's probably going to go for a little bit longer.

Well, I'm also glad that Brit, I shouldn't say glad that Brit's not here. I actually miss Brit very much, but I never know how old she actually is because she continues to lie about it on the podcast. So maybe this is an opportunity to out her. Yeah, and Daily Mail always ages you up and they always age her down. But you know what? there is a much bigger conversation. I think we should do this on a different episode, but there is a much bigger conversation around age and why as women we're so fixated on being

perceived as younger or why is there so much value in a woman's age when they're younger versus as we age? Oh, I think there's a lot to unpack there. But anyway, before we get into talking about all the birthday stuff, all the feelings that you had turning 29, we have some very exciting news for you. And I feel like we get on this podcast and say that every week, but this week really is exciting news it's also because there's been so much stuff happening that like there has been some really bloody exciting things going there's been live shows there's been books and guess what baby there's new merch coming your way so this merch like last year we did the jumpers this year we are doing jumpers again to keep it interesting like is there

something i don't know here but we have two different styles of jumpers this year but it's been a ride it's been a journey to get them here and to get them to you and to make this happen this year but there's two different styles we go from a size small to a 3XL I love both of the colors they are white and beige and they are so beautifully made they're such good quality and also the really exciting thing about the merch is just like last year we are donating every single jumper that's purchased five dollars of that purchase is going to go towards Deadly Connections yeah you might remember I think it was about last November Carly Stanley who is the CEO and founder of Deadly Connections she joins the podcast they're a non-for-profit organization that focus

on injustice and intergenerational trauma amongst First Nations people and they're a phenomenal organization and I'm really stoked that we're going to be putting our donations towards Deadly Connections this is all coming out this week so keep your eyes and ears and everything on the Instagrams it is at Life Uncut Podcast they're really soft and I know I'm biased because like and, you know, work for Life Uncut, but they're very, very soft, very cozy. You've done a very good job. And when it comes to merch, like, I mean, merch is usually not nice. Like you don't want to wear something that's like Life Uncut, or maybe some of you do, but like most people don't. So it's like very discreet, but kind of cool fashion merch, you know, that's what we're going

for. Let's tell you what today's episode is about because it is such a biggie. If you have watched the docuseries, actually, even if you haven't watched it, you're going to really enjoy this, but there is a docu-series on Netflix at the moment. It is called The Most Hated Man on the internet. Now I cannot recommend it enough. If you haven't seen the docu-series yet, please go and watch it. It's based in 2010 to 2012 and it's around this website that existed at the time called Is Anyone Up? Is Anyone Up? was ground zero of revenge porn. It was a site that was created by a man named Hunter Moore and Hunter Moore would encourage people to anonymously post photos of their exes anything nudes that they had of somebody else you could anonymously post the

nude you could also link their social media account so they were not anonymous the person whose nude had been posted was not anonymous and then it was open for people's comments now there is so much more to this story than it just being revenge porn and we have the absolute privilege of interviewing Kayla Laws who is part of this docuseries on today's episode yeah and this is at a time where revenge porn not only was that term coined because of this website it wasn't illegal so everything that happened at that time he wasn't punished for because it wasn't illegal like the laws hadn't caught up and we kind of talk a lot about that with Kayla. Kayla was one of the victims of this website she was one of the early victims and her and her mum kind of took on this

crusade of taking down Hunter Moore and creating what we now call revenge porn laws in countries all across the world. So it was such a privilege to chat to her. I really loved her. I think she's a really strong and resilient woman. You could tell how much this has affected her life and how much judgment, because you've got to remember, like we now live at a time where pretty much everyone has or does take nudes, whether it's because you're freshly dating someone, whether it's just because you're taking them for yourself. Nudes are a pretty common part of the dating lexicon now right but Kayla and her experience was of a time when that was still a very new thing and there was so much fucking judgment so much victim blaming and you can see so much how the

way that she was treated has impacted the way that she views even the fact that she took a nude in the first place but before we get into all that there is something that happened on the weekend to me that I wanted to share with you so yesterday afternoon I had and this is this is like prime life uncut this is like my own accidentally unfiltered I had a couple of girlfriends over two girlfriends one of them's going through some fertility stuff at the moment and she was feeling bloated and talking about like what the fertility drugs were doing to her and my sister was also there and so naturally we started talking about how fat your vagina gets during pregnancy just you know gets a bit pudgy goes back but just you know there's lots of blood flow lots of circulation

it increases in size and width and not to everyone i know that if you're a mom and you're listening to this but for me it did kind of like puffier is that the go it's kind of like a bloated vulva like a vulva bloat is how we would describe are we going to trademark that term yeah can we get merch and it can say vulva bloat on the front so we were sitting out on our veranda area having a glass of wine while we were talking about our enlarged vulvas and i yell out to my sister who's inside chasing around a small child and I was like hey Alicia when you were pregnant did you get a fat vulva and she was like yeah and then anyway this conversation went on for a while and I could hear the sprinklers going next door like my neighbor's sprinklers going and I was

like oh you know they always they kind of have like their sprinklers set they come on at a certain time of the afternoon but then I could hear the sprinklers like getting increasingly louder and I looked over my neighbor who is this lovely man who is the sweetest like most a personality type man was standing on his roof trying to gurney the side of his roof he was like you know when you're trying to pretend like you can't hear a conversation but you're also too close to run away or they'll notice that you're running away and so we just stood there with the high pressure hose hoping so much that the high pressure hose would take over the audio that's coming from over the fence turning it up and up and I looked over and I was like oh my god

literally eye contact did you say hey did yours blow when you were pregnant can you check with your wife did she have a quick survey of people around your area he was like bless his soul so I caught it I caught wind of a little bit but like I couldn't really hear what you were talking about you got to appreciate the lies when people you know when you're like so uncomfortable and you know that they're lying you know that they heard but you've got to be grateful for that like that little white lie that you just go, thanks for trying to make it less awkward. You had something around your birthday that you wanted to talk about. You had some very strong feelings about turning 29. I guess the reason that I had some curious feels about it, maybe it has a lot to do

with like expectations and whether I am at a stage of my life that I thought I would be at by the age of whatever year it may be, which for this year is 29. And I should preface it by saying that I have a lot of anxiety leading up to my birthday because for the last 10 years, I've had some like real life stuff happen specifically on the day of my birthday. I've been made redundant on my birthday. It's a terrible day to be made redundant, especially because I know that yours was during Melbourne lockdown. Yeah. Yeah. It was stage four lockdown. Great times. Like couldn't legally have anyone around you. I was offered a support person to come into my meeting for my redundancy. Nothing like having someone via zoom to really support you through not only your

birthday but your redundancy it was great uh things like that I've had relationships break down on my birthday like there's just been some pretty significant things that I don't know whether it's like something specific to me or whether everyone kind of goes through this and I feel as though it's a day that you're expected to be like yay me like look at me it's I'm it's a celebration of who I am and everything that I've achieved and a lot of what I go through on my birthday is that I tend to feel pretty sad and a lot of it has to do with me looking at how my life looks really different to what I thought it would look like by that certain birthday. So like if I were to think about 15 or 18 year old me and someone said hey what do you reckon your life's

going to look like at 29? My life looks so insanely different to what I thought it would have looked like. I genuinely thought I would be like married with a family and I'd have a really secure job and I don't have those things my life now has amazing things in it I have a job that I could never have dreamt of I love my lifestyle I love where I live I love my friendship group but it's just not what I thought it would look like at 29 I think you hit the nail on the head when you first said like it comes from expectations like it comes from the expectations that you place on yourself the pressures that you place on yourself are those expectations purely driven by the things that you want and expect for yourself as a 29 year old? Or are they driven by where you

think you should fit in in this world? Like society's expectations on you at this age? I think probably more the society side of things, but I just think about it so much on my specific birthday. Like it's just something that kind of comes around every single year that makes me evaluate where I'm at in life. And I wonder whether other people do that. But I think that that is so relatable because people not only do it on their birthdays, we do it at new years. Like it's a milestone so every year we had these like there it's kind of like a stake in the year where we go oh that is where we level ourselves up based on the year prior yeah and I think new year's is a big one we all do we set like new year's resolutions and then we kind of get to the

next year and we're like was it any different probably not or you know it's this idea that so much is supposed to have changed or improved or that you expect to be in a completely different phase of life in one year and sometimes that happens and sometimes that doesn't happen and sometimes it's that pressure I think that leaves you feeling deflated. But I think that there's more than just like expectation and pressure. I also think as women and maybe not at 29, but as we get older, there's this almost expectation itself that we're supposed to be afraid or sad or worried about getting old. You know, I think like a lot of people, we already joked about it at the beginning of this episode. There's like the fear of turning 40

or the fear of turning 50. And I don't necessarily think that that is always the case. That's one thing. I don't think it has to be age related because I think that there are people who are in their twenties who feel anxiety around whatever age they're at. And then there's people who are in their thirties or forties who have completely fucking embraced it and are so happy. I don't think it's age. I think what it comes down to is where you're at and what it is that you have in your life and what it is that gives you purpose and what it is that makes you feel, okay, I'm on the right path. Yeah. Maybe that feeling of kind of running out of time before you're supposed to get to these particular points of life that you think you're going to and I think you know we when

we grow up as teenagers you know we all kind of get our licenses at about the same time we all finish school at about the same time some of us go to uni and then things take really different turns and I guess as a kid you know your birthdays are just meant to be these things that you're like oh my god like it's so exciting and this is this massive celebration and I hadn't really sat down and thought about the levels of complexity to it as to why every year as an adult that my birthday rolled around, I kind of felt a bit down. But I also think it ties into sometimes not only are they a reflection of where we're at, but they also can be a reflection of who we have in our lives. Like, did anyone make you feel special on your birthday? They're also big indicators.

And like birthday blues is a very real thing that I think a lot of people experience. And if they don't experience it every year, they may experience it depending on where their life's at, depending on what's happened to them in that year as well. That answers my question. I was just curious as to other people. And don't get me wrong, I had a really lovely day. And I genuinely, this makes it sound like I hate my life. And then I'm like super down about what I have or haven't achieved in life, which is not the case whatsoever. It's merely the fact that I suppose my life just looks a little different to what I expected it would. And I, to be honest, I just wonder whether anyone else felt this way. I think it's completely relatable. And I also think that sometimes we can be so prone to

putting things into an all good box or an all bad box you know things we like to in our minds make them black and white but we know that it's not things are never black and white everything is gray you can very much feel and have a wonderful time and also still have these other feelings of being sad those things can live side by side yeah and I think it's something that I have been thinking about is like yes your life doesn't look like what you thought it would in some ways but it looks so much better in other aspects of your life than you ever could have pictured it being and I think I just need to trust in that I need to just go that's okay like there'll be one birthday that I'll be looking back and being like oh my gosh remember when you were like kind of feeling a

bit weird about turning 29 because you were sad that you didn't have of these things that you thought you wanted at that time well this amazing thing was waiting for you in the future I love that you just gave yourself the pep talk I've been giving myself the pep talk and if it is anybody else's birthday coming up and you were feeling the same level of birthday blues you can just repeat that just clip that little bit of the order and repeat it to yourself slide into my dms and i will send you a personalized voice note pepping you up and gassing up those ties okay there is actually an article before we get into speaking to taylor that i wanted to bring up with you now this has been doing the rounds in the last week and as a single gal which i think

we just established and not to drive about 17 000 times okay this is an article that was written in psychology today last week it is called the rise of lonely single men men need to address their deficit to meet healthier relationship expectations now the reason why this has been so controversial is because there is a whole group of angry lonely single men who have come out of the woodworks and they're just not happy that this has been written how dare you identify that we have been shit oh well how dare you say that we're the problem how dare you imply that i need to work on myself in order to be in a relationship right now i would like for all of us get both of your hands and slowly put them together because ladies hetero ladies we have done it we have raised the

fucking bar and we are no longer settling for below standard men that is exactly what this article is about and like i said it has become so controversial i mean firstly it's slightly anecdotal it's written as an opinion piece but basically what this psychologist is saying over the last 30 years men have become a larger portion of that growing group of long-term single people. They represent 62% of online dating users. And while you don't actually need to be in a relationship to be happy, men typically are happier and healthier when they are partnered up. However, the reason why women are choosing not to get into relationships with men until an older age, and that's what seems to be happening, the general trend, is not because

we are putting off relationships for say our careers or for lifestyle reasons. It's because so many of us are finding it difficult to find good men at an early age. And we would rather remain single and raise our standards than to date somebody who is not there when it comes to actually what they need to bring to a relationship. I think that over the course of the last couple of generations, the effort that men have to go to in order to date has very gradually, but significantly declined. I mean, you look at the way that, you know, you've spoken to on dating apps and stuff and some of it is just the most mediocre oh you mean the effort the men are putting in effort that they're putting in has declined so much that i think that women now

are just like no i'm not gonna i don't have it in me anymore to be like yeah cool getting it one text from you three business days later is gonna be enough i love the fact that the attitudes around this are changing and chicks are just like i'm not i'm not selling i wonder though i don't know whether it is that the effort has declined so much and I'm sure that there I mean there are people who put minimal effort in on both sides of the coin it also depends on the person like minimal effort if you're minimally invested right but the other part of this that I think is like we are especially women and I think the self-improvement landscape and the relationship improvement landscape I mean god we have an entire podcast that's about like I mean partly we talk

about poo jokes but like more than that we talk about self-help and self-improvement women are so geared, and this is definitely a generalization, but we are much more geared into that self-help and self-improvement landscape. There is more content that is catered to us. There's more content, especially when it comes to relationships, how to be better communicators, how to like understand different types of relationships, like what is gaslighting? There's so many more tools that exist now that didn't exist say 20 or 10 years ago. And I think that it's made us really raise the bar in what we're going to expect and accept in relationships I do too and if you think back like how you know a long time ago back to our parents and grandparents ages like women kind

of needed to be partnered up for good lifestyle you know what I mean yeah security for everything exactly financial safety they needed family safety we don't necessarily need those things anymore so if we want to get like really deep on it I think that there's a lot of societal change that has happened that has enabled women to have more choice now and I think it's a really good thing that they don't feel that need to be partnered up and they do feel as though they can continue on being single for longer. What I do think is really funny is that

if you are the type of person who was made angry by this, it's probably because you saw a bit of yourself in it. Like if you read an article and you're like, I don't relate to any of what this person is saying, you're not going to be angry about it because you're like, cool, water off a duck's back. Like that's not me that they're talking about. But if you saw a little bit of yourself in it,

I reckon they are the guys that were leaving the angry comments off of it being like, this is fucked. The only thing worse than a single lonely man is a single lonely angry man. That's definitely the case. And I, okay, we are not man haters by any means. No, I love men.

Yeah, Keisha more than anyone. Probably too much men, more than they should get credit for. And also this is very like heteronormative and generalized conversation. But it's pretty fucking funny. And to be, in my experience, it's partly true. Well, and I think that like one of the big parts of this piece, and we can put the links to the actual article in the show notes, but Matos is speaking about what's called a skills

deficit. And he goes on to say, for men, this means a relationship skill gap, if not addressed, will likely lead to fewer dating opportunities and long-term periods of being single. There's less patience now from women when it comes to things like poor communication skills. The problem for men is that emotional connection is the lifeblood of healthy, long-term love, and it requires all of the skills that are often not taught to young boys so basically it's like we as women have an expectation of communication we as women have this expectation of a more

connected and vulnerable man in our lives if we are heterosexual and we don't necessarily have the society or the teachings that are catering for that for men from a young age we did do a big big episode around toxic masculinity i think that this all links into it so as much as we can make fun of this process. It's like, we expect more, but the generation of men that we have been brought up with haven't necessarily been raised to cater to our emotional needs. I think that this is like the backlog of we've had this female empowerment. We've had this kind of like, you can do whatever you want. The pendulum is swinging. The pendulum has swung. And the, like you said, the toxic masculinity conversation, a lot of what Will spoke about in that was that he didn't feel like as

growing up at an all boys school, like you didn't have conversations about being vulnerable. You didn't have conversations about relationships and how to be a good partner you didn't talk about any of that kind of thing but I think it is gradually changing I genuinely do think that the men of the younger generation are getting better at talking about their feelings and are getting better at kind of delving into relationships but I do think also the bar has been set pretty low for quite a while so I'm really glad I'm still very glad that the bar is being lifted ladies we've done it should we get into our favorite segment of every show which is accidentally unfiltered all right I'm going to kick off Accidentally Unfiltered today.

This literally just happened. I had to message you guys straight away. So I went out on a second date with a guy I met on Hinge. He very kindly walked me home after we'd been out for drinks. When we got to mine, we started making out and it got heated very quickly. Now, they're not inside, they're outside the house. He had me up against the wall and was passionately kissing me when all of a sudden, out the corner of my eye,

I see a couple walking towards us. I look up and I notice that it is my very recent ex who happens to live down the road from me walking past us with his new girlfriend we awkwardly make eye contact as I'm still kissing this guy I wish the ground swallowed me up in that moment and it makes me cringe just thinking about it weird this is not this is not embarrassing this is fucking great I've dreamt of those situations I have I dreamt of making out with someone and having my ex walk past and just being like oh fuck you buddy it's like it's the icon it's the making while you while staring at him walk past it just everything about it i have goosebumps it makes me feel uncomfortable it's

because you've got that like intuitive sense you know when sometimes you can just feel it in your bones that you're like something someone i know is around me right now but if you continued making out with someone with your eyes open i'm afraid that you probably looked like an absolute fucking weirdo have you ever dated someone who purposely kept their eyes open i've dated someone who never closed their eyes when kissing and it was the fucking weirdest thing ever oh one of my ex-boyfriends used to do as a joke but it was very much like a well-established joke what do you mean i dated a guy who would only half close his eyes so if you open your eyes at all you'd always still see half of his eyes open it was like he just squinted but didn't close them you know how people say that you

can either become a, is it a cyclops or a, you know, like when you look really, when you're kissing someone, if you do open your eyes, they can either have the one big eye or the two that are really close together. I've never heard this before ever. Oh really? Yeah. It was the thing I remember in high school. I can't say that I've ever, whether you get the one big eye or the two that are smushed together. Moments like this, I do feel almost a decade older than you, Keisha. Yeah. Okay. My apologies. I wonder, I was thinking maybe your ex was just, you know, constantly curious which of the two he's just playing a game no he just always would have his eyes a little bit open just it was always a bit lurky that is a bit odd anyway give me your

excellent okay i'll get into mine uh i downloaded tinder as you do matched with a guy and organized a meetup went over to his property out of town for the night and had a few drinks you do you boo uh watched a movie and one thing led to another at this stage i thought he had the house to himself and all was going well until about midnight. Turns out his cousin had been drinking and returned home with his girlfriend and two other mates. Me and the guy were just finishing when his cousin walked in on us. Now, usually if this happened,

you would assume that they would just shut the door and leave. But no, they stayed for about half an hour with me and this guy laying there butt naked under the cover with our clothes all over the floor, including my fancy lace lingerie. Now, just when you think that that's it, it actually got worse his cousin whipped out the ukulele and started serenading us with typical country romance songs why were they drunk i'm assuming ah like i'm pretty sure when i was at uni this shit happened as well you've never like no this has never happened to you a version

of this has never happened to you where someone's just come and sat on the end of the bed and chatted to you for a while and you're like we all know what's just happened in here uh yeah it happen but only with like partners not with like one night stands like this girl did not this was her first tinder date with the guy like she didn't know them and he's just walked in and been like do you know wonderwall i said maybe really not not conducive for a sexy spicy time all right guys on that note let's get into the chat with kayla today we are speaking to Kayla Laws a woman who fell victim to revenge porn back in 2012 now the reason why Kayla's story is so prolific is because her experience helped to shape revenge

porn laws all across the world in 2010 a young 24 year old man from Sacramento named Hunter Moore started a website called is anyone up this is during a time where shock jock internet culture was beginning to emerge and there was little to zero consequences for people who were uploading revenge porn to the internet is anyone up was a website that allowed anyone to anonymously upload nude photos along with their social media handles so basically people could take nude photos of their exes or somebody who they hated and upload those photos to the website it linked it back to their facebook account and also encouraged people to leave truly deplorable comments below but this is more than a story of just revenge porn. The recent Netflix docuseries, The Most Hated Man

on the Internet, details Hunter Moore's insidious actions and those of his cult following called The Family. Now, Kayla is a prominent feature in this docuseries. If you haven't seen it, we cannot recommend it enough. But Kayla, welcome to Life Uncut. Thanks for having me. Now, Kayla, your photos ended up on Is Anyone Up in 2012. And we know from the docuseries that this had a huge impact on your life. Can you tell us a little bit about who you were and what your life was like before you ended up on the website? Yeah, so I'm from the San Fernando Valley, Los Angeles County, and I grew up with my mom. It's always been me and her, actually, my whole life.

She was a single mom, and we've always had a really, really close relationship, and I lived a pretty normal suburban life. Nothing too crazy other than the fact that I did meet my dad for the first time when I was like 11. You know my mom basically had to play the role of mother and father for many many years and she did a wonderful job. I've been kind of boring and just typical normal you know nothing crazy. I don't mean that I'm boring but I mean I never had a rebellious stage or I never like went crazy and went out and partied I never drank I was the opposite of that you know my if my mom would go out to some sort of like party I'd be calling her and being like when are you going to come home where are you it's late I'm worried

so the roles were reversed sometimes like the Gilmore Girls which I guess as well is like what happened would have been so much harder for you to comprehend like exactly when your own the image of who you are as a person is completely turned on its head like how do you reconcile that it was so hard it was hard it was a hard pill for me to swallow at that time when it happened because it was exactly the opposite of like the image I projected to everyone friends family it wasn't who I was I had never sent a nude in my life it actually literally at that moment when I took that photo uh of me topless I had never taken a nude photo ever it was the first time I even ever had the thought of you know taking a photo in the mirror of myself maybe topless which is so funny

because I was already in my 20s and and this may be a little TMI but there's no such thing especially not on this podcast there's no such thing describe in detail okay oh I don't know but I didn't even really get intimate with a man until like my 20s as well but kind of an idea of like the type of person I was growing up it was not my personality or who I was to be like here I'm gonna send you a new photo of myself it was just so opposite like you said of who I was at that time can you tell us about the website is anyone up and what the purpose of that website was The purpose of Is Anyone Up was to absolutely humiliate people, to embarrass them to the point where they would lose jobs, they would lose friends, and they would ultimately question themselves so much so to a point that they would possibly think of committing suicide, just to embarrass and humiliate people, really. So they would post photos of people, Hunter would post photos of people with the comments on top saying, like, what would you do to her, you know? Would you fuck her? Would you kill her? How can we embarrass and humiliate her, basically?

Like any sort of comment he could make on top of a photo that would rile up his followers and his family, as they called it, they would comment and basically do whatever he said on top of the photo. And those comments were so lewd and terrible, basically saying that someone should, you know, jump off the side of a mountain or they, you know, don't deserve to be parents or whatever it may be that has to do with the photo or, you know, connecting their social media account and finding information about them and trying to embarrass them further that's connected to their personal life. That's what he would aim to do. There are so many levels about this website. And I don't remember if it was as prolific in Australia. From what I understood from the Netflix series, Is Anyone Up was huge in the States as a website. Whereas in Australia, I think we had different versions of what Is Anyone Up is, but I don't think that it necessarily was as big here. But one of the things that really struck me about the website itself was not only could your ex, if they had a beef with you, upload anonymously

the nudes that you'd sent them, but it also linked it to your social media account. So you could tag in someone's social media account, basically the grab from their Facebook. So there was no anonymity on this site at all. And all of this was done against the person who was being posted as well. Absolutely. Yeah. They connected your social media accounts. So if let's say your photo were to end up on a website and it was so random, obviously that would still be terrible and you wouldn't want that but at least it wouldn't give anyone viewing the photo a way to connect it back to you as a person in real life and find out more about your personal life and where they can find you like your job and what city you live in add you as a friend on social

media like start following you maybe find out your phone number anything personal about you it brings it to the next level when now they're seeing an intimate photo of you and then they have a way of actually communicating and contacting you personally. Can you talk us through what happened in 2012 when you found out that you were on this website? What was your process? What happened in that moment? Going back to the moment that I found out I was a waitress at a restaurant. I was pursuing acting at that time. I was serving tables and the hostess at the restaurant that night came up to me and said, hey, there's a phone call for you. It's actually the other hostess who was not working that night, who was a friend of mine. And she knew about the website. She actually

knew also some other people that had been on the website as well. So she, I guess, was kind of keeping tabs on it, kind of looking at it, seeing if anyone else showed up on the website that she knew. And sure enough, obviously she saw me. And then it was something that she felt could not wait which I am so thankful for and she called me in the middle of my shift so I asked someone to watch my tables I took the phone call I went out into the parking lot and I'm on the phone saying hey what's going on and she's like I am so sorry she just started with that and she goes you are on this website it's called is anyone up.com and the owner is an absolute asshole and he will not take anyone's photos down and I know people who have like tried to get their photo down and they

can't and he won't listen to them and everything and she just keeps going on and I'm like my heart drops into my stomach I'm like what like I can't I couldn't even like understand I was so confused shocked like all the emotions I didn't even know how they got a photo of me so she goes you're on page two. It's is anyone up.com. So I literally take out my cell phone and I look it up at that moment. My heart's just like beating out of my chest. I'm just like, Oh my God, like what's happening right now? Like my, my life is over. Sorry. It's a hard story to tell sometimes. So I called my mom and I said, mom, don't be mad, but something happened. And that's kind of like our thing. We've always, I've always done that in life growing up me and her. Like if something

happens and it's obviously like unintentional or it's an accident or whatever. And I just don't want her to get mad at me, but I want her to kind of like, just listen to me. So I preface it with like, don't get mad, you know? And so I was like, are you by your computer? Can you go on this website? It's called Disney1up.com. And she went on and I'm like, scroll to page two and I'm on there and she's like oh my god like what is this website and I was like I don't know they this guy he posts people's photos I don't know how he got my photos I never sent it to anyone I just like started rambling off and I was like freaking out and I'm like mom can you please help me because I had to finish the rest of my shift I didn't want to get fired but I was like shaking the rest of

the night but anyway I said mom can you help me and she got to work right in that moment and ended up hanging up the phone with her and obviously I was going to call her later and then talk to her when I got home and I actually had like a table of six that I was serving and I had to bring them all water and I literally spilled the water and I didn't want to be like yeah I just found out that a nude photo of me is online sorry I spilled water I I just like I couldn't think of anything so I was like I'm so sorry and I just found out there was a death in the family like I had to bring I had to think of something. So they understood why I did that. I can't even believe that you managed to go back to work after that. I know anyone who would be able to just be like, okay, I need to

get back to work and go do my job. Yeah. I'm so sorry that that happened to you. And especially during a time where, I mean, there is never a time where it's acceptable, but the time of what was a decade ago, the mentality and the treatment of people who had their nudes posted online, there was no sympathy. There was no empathy. And I know that that's something that you went on to experience. Can you tell us a little bit about when you went to the police to try and speak to the police, to have the photos taken down, something that these nude photos being posted against your will, what was the reaction from the police at that time? Before I even like go into talking about the police, I do want to mention like even at the

restaurant that I worked at, the assistant manager literally texted my photo out to the entire restaurant. And that's not mentioned in the documentary, but it wasn't even just that it was online. It was now affecting my personal life. She threatened to get me fired over it. It was something that personal people around me had and knew about. It becomes a weapon. Yeah, exactly. So not only did I have all of them blaming me and saying that basically I did it and not really believing my that like I didn't send the photo and stuff like that like it was all around me but even if you did send and that's the big thing that I think like is the

huge take-home point even if you did send the photo even if it hadn't been hacked off your computer even if you did send the photo in terms of like to a partner or to someone who you trusted the fact that there are hundreds of women in this situation who have been betrayed in what they've given consent on yeah it's just so unbelievable and to think that it was of a time where people lost lost their jobs people lost their family people lost their self-respect and their self-worth because of one fucking website exactly like the comparison of before we had education about sexual assault it used to be well what were you wearing where were you walking yes and when nudes came into the picture it was well why did you take the picture and why did you send

it exactly and one thing that is really beautiful that we can get into is how much that kind of societal attitude has changed but at the time in 2012 those are the questions that I imagine where life was being flooded with. Yeah and a lot of women receive that in general like if we wear something lower cut then it's like oh we just wanted the attention. In regards to going to the police they did the same thing. I really was very cowered in. My shoulders were kind of like in terms of my stature at that time I was so ashamed. Not ashamed because I hadn't felt like I did anything wrong, but ashamed of like what I was being subjected to and like what people around me were blaming me. So it got to me. I was very, I was young. I was impressionable. I was

super insecure. My confidence hadn't peaked yet. And so I just was so down on myself. So entering into the police station, I already felt horrible about everything that was happening and about myself. And it was piling on with comments around me. And then this police officer who is supposed to come and help me and save me does the same exact thing and makes me feel even worse and it's like well where do we go who do we have to turn to if the police won't even help us what did the police say to you the police officer said well if you didn't want the photo online why would you take it you shouldn't have taken the photo in the first place i love this part of the netflix documentary where your mom turned around and said well had the photos been in a drawer if they were

physically printed photos and been in a drawer and someone had broken into my house and taken them out of a drawer would you feel differently about them yeah it's a very good parallel because that would be breaking and entering and that's basically what happened to me is hacking is like stealing my own personal information or photo or whatever it may be can you tell me like at this time in 2012 was revenge porn as a concept as a thing illegal at that time no it wasn't even like you said it was he kind of revolutionized it it was something that I think wasn't tapped into wasn't thought about it was the loophole he kind of got around the law and it there was nothing in place yet so what he was doing was actually technically still legal because no one

had tried it yet can you explain just just so that anybody who hasn't seen the documentary has a really good understanding of what happened in your situation so I think we've established that you took the photos you never sent them to anyone and yet they still ended up on this website how did they end up on the website well hunter moore actually ended up getting hacked himself and he found out that he was hacked and ended up emailing the hacker his name was charlie evans and then ended up messaging him and saying hey will you hack for me and i'll pay you every week and he ended up agreeing to do so. And then I am in my room and taking photos of myself, lots of photos, lots of clothes, photos, just selfies. I was standing in front of the mirror. You could see

my hand holding the iPhone or the camera phone at that time. And then randomly I had this thought that maybe one day when I'm 50 years old, I might want to know what my boobs looked like when I was in my twenties. Why not? Like they looked young and fresh, whatever. So I did it just as like a documenting type of thing. And I only took a couple just topless. And one of them ended up on the website because I ended up running out of room on my cell phone. I didn't really know how to like work iCloud very well back then. So I didn't have like an iCloud thing set up. I have not been very good with technology most of my life. So I was like, Oh, well, I'm just going to send this photo along with many others, photos of my like brothers, my family, my dogs in a folder in my email called

my pics. So it was mixed in with a bunch of different things just saved in there for years to come. Right. And ironically, I got hacked weeks later. It was the craziest timing. And the way that they hacked me was Charlie Evans would go onto Facebook or any sort of social media. But in my case, it was Facebook and he would pretend to be my friend. So he had already hacked my friend's account. He messaged me and said, Hey, I lost my cell phone and I'm trying to get into my email can I give my two-factor authentication your phone number so that the text for the five-digit code can be sent to you and you can give it back to me and then I can access my email and this was literally I tell you guys my best friend so this message was coming from literally

my maid of honor in my wedding that I just had so I trusted her she was like my best friend my entire life but he had already hacked her so it was coming from him via her right and I did not know it oh wow so I gave the five digit code because I thought I was giving it to my friend and little did I know I was actually giving my own five digit code for my email account and he did that with tons of people in all different ways however he hacked I don't know his special ways and stuff but for me that's what he did for me and he got into my email and then of course what would you do you go to the email folder that says my pics it's like right it's not like I was trying to hide it you know what I mean I was just like oh my pics you know here they are yeah I just kind

of think about this process of imagine how much time they spent doing that in the hopes that someone had uploaded a photo that was a new like to me it just seems so time like but also what it's just such a fucking weird thing to to do well it also goes to show like just how insidious the whole platform had become and what a behemoth the platform had become because it obviously wasn't growing at the rapid speed it needed to just from having anonymous people sending in photos So in order for it to grow, in order to continue to be this, what was truly a viral sensation at the time for all the wrong reasons, it needed that constant influx of images. And that's where they were getting them from. Well, what they were also thriving on, like the followers were the fact

that they were looking at photos of people who didn't want their image out. So there was this kind of excitement, this secrecy, but also this way of humiliating them. And the followers thrived off of that. And so did Hunter. It's not exciting when you have someone on the website that self submitted and wants to be on the website and wants to try and get that sort of notoriety or attention. It's not exciting for them. They're like, eh, whatever, like you want it too bad. You know what I mean? Like that's the way Hunter viewed it. It's the degrading. You know, I want to say this as well Kayla like the way that you tell your story you can tell that you still hold so much shame around the photos themselves even just like justifying why you had taken them there is no 30

year old woman out there who hasn't taken photos of themselves whether it's for their own personal use whether it's because they thought they looked fucking hot whatever the reason is there is no woman out there who hasn't done it and also there is very few who have never sent it to somebody who they trusted. I'm going to start numbering. I'm like, you're like, what did I say? Number 72. You can also just tell from your hair color. You're like, where, what point in time? But what I mean by this is like, I cannot imagine what it is like to have something taken from you without your consent and repurposed online without your ability to control that without your ability to have control over your own body. But, and I'm sure you've heard this before, like you never

need to justify why you took the photos in the first place. You never need to justify not being the type of person who would take photos because everyone is the type of person who takes photos for any reason. And I think that that's the thing when you watch this docuseries this time around and in with the lens of 2022, every woman feels infuriated for you because it could have happened to anyone. You know, back then was also a very different time technologically. Instagram was just kind of starting up. I don't know if you scroll back in your Instagram way back to like 2012. And you can see the quality difference in the photos and the change that we have now with obviously our cell phones and technology. And back then, taking selfies was such a new premise and

idea. And it wasn't necessarily seen as a positive thing. And there was always this like mockery of duck lips and stuff like that everyone would always kind of make fun of anyone taking a selfie and now it's so much more accepted people are like you go girl and they're just so much more supportive and like oh you look so great in this photo and it's just such a different time and I mean you see Britney Spears doing everything she's doing on her social media and it's all like loved and supported and it's like such a different time than back then so I think you know I was so traumatized by it. So I do still hold on to kind of the way I was treated. Absolutely. And I put that, I compartmentalized that, and how I felt. And so now, you know, 10 years later, and doing

this documentary, which by the way, I said no to Netflix up until the literal last day they were about to leave, because I just didn't want to open that can of worms again. It was like you saw I got emotional like it's still something that you know was hard for me because it's not who I am at all and I appreciate you saying I don't need to justify it but it's definitely it's it will always be like a hard time and a hard thing that I went through but the difference now is great and like how supportive everyone is Kayla can we talk about your mom yeah for anyone who hasn't seen the docuseries she just seems like an absolute powerhouse a woman that like a dog with a bone in the best way just nothing was going to stop her from taking down this man that had wronged

her daughter how did she initially respond to what hunter had done well side note she's always been amazing and a badass like her whole life yeah so she was worried that the photo was going to proliferate on the website and on the internet and then maybe you know get transferred onto another website and more people were going to save it so of course she within the first week that it was up worked really really hard like day and night to try and get this photo down she contacted the website hosting operator she reached out to the attorney to hunter's attorney Actually, my stepdad reached out to him, but they, you know, were together and tried to get him to kind of do something. It kind of became like an online war between them.

And she really initially had to figure out like who she was dealing with and what angle she could come from. Because we were working and trying to do things from all angles, like going to the police, reaching out to his attorney, you know, like reaching out to even the companies that were posting ads on his website even trying to reach out to them like how can we get through to this guy in what way and my mom even called his mom's work and turns out she didn't work there anymore but my mom explained to all of her former co-workers on speakerphone they were all like huddled around the speakerphone like oh my god I can't believe it and apparently that got back to hunter and then of course he tweets it and says haha someone just called my mom's work so he just thought everything was funny you know and i think

deep down inside he may have been like a little nervous like oh someone's trying to come after me after all this time i've been trying to go after all these people and like you know expose them and humiliate them posting their social media their addresses totally which now we also know is doxing like which is illegal in itself you know to be able to put out someone's personal information do you think like I mean the way he comes across in the docuseries is that he has to be either narcissistic or a literal psychopath like he's so lacking in empathy towards so many women who have lost their jobs or lost their families because of the reaction was there ever any insight into him as a person beyond what we see no in regards to like any sort

of mental issue he may have or psychological issue i just don't know it's quite possible it seems that way to me but i just don't know i've never heard of anything and they when we were in court they didn't even use that as any sort of angle as well but i do know that he's just addicted to fame and so all of this he's always gone off the idea of like even bad attention is good attention so any attention and the fact that this has come back out i'm sure he's happy about it and He's getting more attention now, more followers and more people kind of knowing who he is again, because he kind of when he went to prison, people didn't really know who he was. He kind of he was forced to stay off social media, which was his lifeline. It was who he was. And so he kind of was forced in hiding.

And this new age of people out on the internet, because there's so many more people now on the internet and on social media and younger generations and more impressionable young teenagers or whoever, now they all know who he is. Now they can go follow him. Now they can try and understand like what he did. And it could be a good thing or a bad thing, but he takes it as a good thing. But I think he was addicted to fame and he's still stuck in 2012. You know, he's still stuck missing that website. it's interesting that you say that because you know we have these people at the moment that are very viral people like andrew tate these kind of shock jock turned viral internet sensations and even if people are able to understand that who these people are so problematic and what they do is so destructive to people's lives they still get followers because people are still interested by it because they it's like a voyeuristic type of mentality and it's so dangerous and it truly is what you said like the fame that's built off it I mean I did a bit of digging and like Hunter Moore has been banned from Instagram but he's not banned from Twitter because Twitter has a much broader

I don't know how that yeah acceptance free speech however they call it but they've got a much broader terms and conditions around what you have to be to create a profile and he on Twitter is still I am Hunter Moore which I think just goes to show there's something in that in just in that name that makes me go you're not really you're not really like you're not embarrassed by what you did or who you are he's like self-absorbed yeah it just seems like if you were truly remorseful for what you had done to these people you would be embarrassed to be associated so strongly with a name that once you google it you can see exactly who that person is no he doesn't have any remorse or shame or anything he's never once said he's sorry you know charlie evans actually in court

turned around and on his own volition just said i'm so sorry and i of course you know didn't look at him. So I just like looked at the ground because I was in the pews right behind him as I was about to give my victim statement. And he was right in the pew right in front of me. And he just out of nowhere just turned around and decided to say, I'm so sorry. So I felt more remorse from him. But Hunter was just standing there like kind of like laughing and smirking and stuff. And that's just the attitude he has across the board now. It hasn't changed. He hasn't changed at all. Can you tell us about what happened once the FBI got involved? And your mom was such a huge part of this process. She was the catalyst for what actually brought the FBI

investigation. But can you tell us what happened once those bills were in motion? Yeah. So actually it's kind of interesting. My mom reached out to 40 victims from the website, actually a total of 500, but initially 40 victims she had found out were hacked. And she is such a good detective. She went into every nook and cranny on the internet to try and figure out these women and men's phone numbers and contact information and called people and said, Hey, do you know so-and-so are you associated with them? Cause you guys have the same last name, any which way she could find out a way to contact them on the phone. She was able to get in contact with so many people and it was very time consuming. So she printed stuff off the website and was gathering her evidence.

And she had a huge box full of papers and evidence. And she handed it over like the document that they show on the Netflix documentary is tiny compared to what my mom actually presented the FBI with. She did all of the grunt work ahead of time. She did all the grunt work and then handed it over. And then basically, Jeff said on the documentary, at this point, we need to gather our evidence on our end to be able to have a raid and grab all of his technology and stuff. So there was a point which was really hard for her because she still really wanted things to be in fast motion that she did kind of have to do. OK, I've done my work on my end. She was still helping victims that were, you know, contacting her now because it was more known that she was, you know, the one heading this whole issue and conversation at that time and trying to help victims and letting them know and calling them, being the first one to say, I'm so sorry you're on this website and having them freak out and cry and, you know, have the same sort of reaction. action as what I had but at some point she had to be hands off and let the FBI do their thing so that we could go to court and try and get some sort of sentencing which we did. I think the

compassion from your mom to be the person that you know these people in them probably the most vulnerable state they may ever be in their lives to have her to go to and talk to and feel supported by would have absolutely made such a difference to them at that time. But as we mentioned earlier, what Hunter was doing with posting the photos was not the illegal act. So he didn't get into any trouble for that. So what ended up coming out of the court case? What did he actually get sentenced for? I know that it was like identity theft and hacking. I actually kind of forget what exactly the counts were but I know Charlie was just purely hacking and how long did each of them spend in in jail well they got two and a half years in prison but they I guess got out a little

earlier got like six to nine months I'm not sure which one but they got out a bit earlier than what they were supposed to fully do yeah it's incomprehensible isn't it and and two and a half years at that time would have been an absolute landmark sentencing for something of this like revenge porn like we said it wasn't illegal people weren't going to jail for posting people's nudes on the internet you know now that is enough of a crime to go to jail for but to think that the thing that they were actually pinned on was the hacking and this brings me back to something that made me I mean I don't know how you feel about it but it made me pretty angry watching it and it was the reaction of your stepdad when he first found out which was like oh we don't have

a case here there's nothing I can do for anyone who doesn't know Kayla's stepdad is an attorney and it wasn't until the hacking side of things and until there were death threats to your mom that that escalated for him that he actually took some aim against the whole thing with Hunter's attorney yeah I mean originally I didn't even want my stepfather knowing because I was so ashamed of the photo I didn't even want him seeing it and I thought if he knew then there would be a chance that he would actually see the photo. So that was scary to me. Eventually, you know, it got to a point where we needed an attorney's help. And thankfully, my stepdad's an attorney. And so he got on board after things got more serious. But initially, he was really like, just leave it

alone. You know, like, why worry about it? Just forget about it. Forget that it's like there, like, don't put any attention towards it. And I was so frustrated. Because I was like, I need this down now. I'm not going to be okay with this photo staying up any longer. And I was also coming from a place of desperation because it just was not okay for me to have this photo up in any place at all. And he was just so of the opposite mindset. So it was frustrating at that point. But then things escalated. We also had a stalker come to our house and the documentary doesn't show or say that that happened, but I remember specifically standing like at the dining room table and we have this like big glass window at my mom's house and you can see the street and

we live on a cul-de-sac. And so if a car is driving back and forth, they're either our neighbors and we know all of our neighbors or, you know, they decided they want to make a U-turn and they were in the wrong spot, but it was a car that was going back and forth. And I thought it seemed a little fishy. And I just got this feeling that this wasn't right. And my mom was in the kitchen adjacent to the dining room. And I'm like, Mom, there's a weird car that keeps driving back and forth in front of our house. And then sure enough, that car parks. And so we're both kind of peeking through the window. And we see this car just sitting there and they have their window down. And so of course my mom being, you know, fearless and I was following her lead. We walked

out the front door, walked through the front yard down to the street and basically like stared at this kid. He was like a young kid sitting outside of our house in his car and looking down. And we were both just staring at him with our arms crossed. Like, what are you doing here? Hello. and we both said hello and he whipped his head up looked at us and pressed the gas pedal so hard there's a curve on our street he almost ran into the neighbor's house that's how fast he wanted to get away from us and he didn't realize we were standing right there so we were scared or that you're going to confront him yeah and we were really scared we were like if someone knows our address now like that's when my mom was like i need to buy locks we need to put you know metal

rods underneath our bed. Like I was scared something was going to happen or that someone was going to try and do something to us because we were standing up to this guy who had such a big following and these scary people on his side. That obviously didn't have a moral compass in the way that you would expect normal people to have. Like that would be utterly terrifying if it were anyone, but knowing that these people are such strong followers of someone who does something so morally incorrect, it would just add a whole nother layer of what you would fear that they could potentially do to you absolutely and if they're following someone like him they could potentially be even worse and act on things like they could be you know someone who would just

bring a gun to our house and be like mad that we're going against their father basically well we saw the tweets hunter more is god hunter more like there were exactly actually thought that exactly so we didn't know what anyone was capable of these were random people all across the world and so many followers too it could have been anyone it could have been anyone super dangerous and i think as well like the way that the platform was put together is anyone up is that it truly dehumanized the people that were on there they weren't people anymore there was a picture and it was because of the way that the comment section was curated like how can you bring this person down it was so hugely lacking in empathy that nobody saw the people on this website as people

they were just pictures to make fun of that's where this degrading humiliation was all spawned from how did having your nude photos repurposed online against your will this whole thing change you well for a very very very long time I would not take any photos of myself if I got into relationships you know I was dating at the time it took a long time for me to find my husband And so I've had a long dating life. You know, there's natural things that you do, like in a relationship, and I would not send any sort of photo to anyone. And I, to this day, have not.

So that in and of itself created a fear within me that maybe if nothing had happened, I may have, who knows? I mean, I don't know. Like if something got more serious in the times nowadays, you know, maybe at an older age it would have escalated and I would have sent a little more risque photos or something I don't know but I was so traumatized by it that even if I had a boyfriend that would ask me for anything I'd be like no like immediately and very sternly and I'd be like I don't do that like that will never happen like I had a really traumatic experience and I'd have to tell them what I

went through and like I'm sorry that's just not going to happen on our in our relationship and you just need to be okay with that and just like being really like wary and not really trustworthy of even anything on my phone that could potentially be accessed how did you recover from all of this and did you get any closure at any point yeah so it took a long time for us to get any sort of sentencing uh the fbi was it felt like they were taking their time i'm sure like jeff mentions in the documentary, they had to shuffle through a lot of paperwork and records to really get some good evidence. But once we finally went to court and I read my statement, which it was a hard time because I was on the fence too, just like I was with doing the documentary about even like reading

a statement. And I wanted to do it for everyone else that was scared, just like I was. But I also had the support of my mom there who was fighting for so many women and I was so close to like I would say my mom was like the nucleus of it all and so because I was her daughter and it happened to me and I was literally every day hearing my mom talking to victims and like people being affected and it was like so eye-opening hearing so many people be affected by this man that I think being so closely associated, like I had a better grasp on like what entirely was going on with this website versus like some other victims who just felt very much like, oh my God, my, my picture's on this website and everyone else's is revenge porn. But like mine wasn't and feeling just very

confused and stuff. And like, I understood more of like the whole picture. So I felt in my duty, Like I felt like I really wanted to be a good representation for everyone and whatever help that may have been for court to put him away. But it was a hard time. Yeah, and I can imagine that a lot of that hard time came from the fact that your mom was in contact with these people that were new victims of this whole scheme. so it was something that you were kind of being faced with and that can of worms was being reopened for you every day because you really led the charge on this changing I mean I know that for a lot of people that I know we've had photos shared I've had a photo of myself a nude of mine that I sent to a guy that I was seeing at the time and it was shared in a group chat and I didn't

wish for that to happen and now because of what you guys did I feel a lot more of a security and all and a validation a validation for why I was upset about that at the time and I also feel a lot more safety in now being in the dating world if I'm to want to send a photo like that I know that it's illegal now for them to share it and so I like I can imagine a lot of people would be really grateful that you were willing to kind of go through that trauma over and over again in order for things to change yeah and you know this this whole uh experience and this topic has not really been that public until now until this documentary like there were laws already put in place prior to this documentary being released but there was not not a lot of talk about it and and it was not

directly affecting my life like it has now obviously being released and kind of being more eye-opening for people that didn't even know about it at the time it's kind of crazy but because I was so afraid to do the documentary and traumatized by like the treatment I received, I will say a lot of the closure that I received or that I have is now 10 years later. It's crazy. It took a long time and it took a documentary on Netflix. The light and the support and the love that I've received from like thousands of people reaching out to me personally and sharing their stories all these other people that I didn't even know in different countries having something happen to them as well or you know a traumatizing experience that they're sharing with me that has

like kind of counteracted everything that I went through in the past so now it's like I feel like it's like overshining kind of like everything I went through and so that's why I kind of feel that like closure now and it's it's unfortunate that it like has to come from like an outward source because I definitely feel like I you know confident in what I did and that I stood up to him and and I feel good about that because I was the voice for so many so many women who were victimized by him and I feel great about that but I think for me as the victim like it's separate than like being the voice for other women you know like that was like I felt that was my duty but for me as the like victim Kayla and what I went through traumatically, like the whole thing that I

was trying to curl in a ball and get away from like now has finally, that's why I get so emotional about it because it was, it was so hard at that time. And so now like everyone being so loving and supportive, it's, it's a different, different energy than what I received in the past. Kayla, thank you so much for coming and being a part of the podcast. Thank you for your bravery and sharing your story and doing the docu-series. Honestly, I watched it all in a day and I was so fucking mad, so mad, but so proud of you for being able to do what you have and to share the story that you have.

And I'm so sorry that you had to experience that. Thank you so much. And thank you so much for having me. All right. You know that we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our lowlight of each and every week. Keisha Pettit, you can go first. What is your suck?

okay my suck for this week actually has to do with you oh i know what this suck is because it just happened so this morning when laura got here to record i was like hey i have something really exciting to share with you base basically there is a bit of a backstory to this in that laura thinks that we are not very excited about her wedding because we've been very very shit booking accommodation they still have it like okay the reason why i think that my my co-host my producer my other co-host on radio are not excited about my wedding is because it is in two months it is away it is a destination wedding and they are yet to book accommodation or buy anything to wear to the wedding or actually do any organizing whatsoever I can tick one of those things off

the list because this morning actually Brittany hasn't even written back to my hen's group chat yet so like I mean truly I feel like you guys are not that excited let me tell you I might actually pay her amount she can just fix here when she's back same with accommodation I think I'm just gonna do that for her but I was so excited this morning because I was like Laura guess what I found a dress to wear to your wedding and I brought it to you on my laptop and I was like this is it isn't it beautiful it's this gorgeous beck and bridge dress and you said that's what the bridesmaids are wearing so if quiche and brit had paid any attention quiche would have already known that my bridesmaids are wearing sage green to the wedding a silk sage green dress and quiche

bought herself a silk sage green dress honest to god when i was looking at dresses to buy you know this would make a lovely bridesmaid i thought this reminds me of laura i was like i don't know why green reminds me of you i feel like you're a very earthy tone girl because my bridesmaids are wearing that and we had that exact conversation as it turns out I'm getting a vibe though that maybe it's is this like because you're wanting to be the unofficial bridesmaid like you just tack on at the end of the line and then that's what happens I now need to find a new dress to wear apparently you will look lovely like just wear something you've already got okay fashion doesn't need to be disposable we can just wear something from the wardrobe

so that was my suck that happened this morning uh need a new dress to Laura's wedding and you're Sweet. Okay. Was there anything from your birthday, even though we had the big unpack around why birthdays can be a bit of a, you know, just a duplicitous, you know, tricky time for people. Was there anything from your birthday that was a sweet? I think something that was really nice about this birthday is that I went out for dinner with probably my closest girlfriends in Sydney. And it was one of those moments where I was like, wow, I have some really like kick-ass friends in my life. And I felt very grateful for that. And they did make me feel really special even though I was like a little bit like a little bit anxious about

the whole day and all that kind of thing so yeah it was really nice I had a very nice little sweet this week of being minor brute's birthday well I mean I love that even though you're feeling a bit shit you can still and like we said you know you can have you can still have parts of that that you don't like but then also be able to appreciate the awesome things you have in your life which are the awesome people that you have around you my suck for the week is that there and I put it on my stories the other day there is an international no it's just a national because that would mean it's all over the world i think it's just australia there's a national staffing crisis it's a crisis there's no retails there's a shortage there's no one anyone anywhere we

have been trying to get retail staff for tony may this is also a job ad you don't need to go to seek.com this is a job ad if you want a job at tony may a lot i was gonna say it live on kayak tony may yeah sorry my birthday rolled around i'm being made redundant at our retail store in paddington there's just no good customer service staff there's a massive shortage in australia and it's really hard and at the moment we're understaffed because unfortunately one of our staff left and she's amazing and i'm so sad to say goodbye to her and i've spoken to so many other small business owners who have similar roles and opportunities they're going in their workplaces and there are just no staff yeah it's weird because i see signs

up on like so many cafes and stuff that everywhere is looking for stuff I wonder I mean it's very good the unemployment rate is very low at the moment which is obviously amazing but it makes it incredibly difficult if you're an employer trying to employ someone because where do you get staff from well I assume it's because of the whole COVID thing and people like a lot of international people went home exactly yeah right okay that makes sense but I can also say that I have uh spent some of my time working at Tony May very good environment highly recommend would give it five stars on TripAdvisor also lovely jewelry and there are some work yeah so yeah you get work parts of Tony and me jewelry. You do. Oh, you absolutely do. Okay. And then also my sweet for

the week is that I had my dress fitting and my wedding dress fitting, and I am excited about my wedding. My wedding dress is just so, so different to what I thought it was going to be. And I love it so much at the very beginning. I'll tell you guys all about the wedding stories and stuff when it comes closer to, but at the very beginning with my wedding dress, very much was going with what I thought I should wear based on other people's perception of me. And instead I've on with something that I really love it's very me and whatever that's it I would agree with that actually when you showed me a photo of it firstly I have been very excited about that and I nearly cried and I'm not the type of person that cries at someone wearing a dress but you looked so

insanely beautiful in this picture it's very much not what I expected you to wear though yeah I can't wait to surprise you all I expected you to wear a sage green anyway that is it from us if you have love the episode please jump on to life uncut on our apple podcast you can leave a review there britney will be back soon i don't know if it's this week but thursday matt will be joining us on ask uncut so if you have any questions for ask uncut for matt and from a male perspective jump on board slide into the dms you can send it to us there and also just a reminder that the merch will be coming this week so put it in your calendar you don't want to miss it it's yeah those the jumpers are awesome and we hope you guys love them as much as we do tell your mom tell your dad

tell your dog tell your friend and share the love and i just got that whole thing right the first time because we love love Bye.