Life Uncut - Is There Such A Thing As a Moral or Ethical Family Vlogger? Monetising Kids Online

Episode Date: October 28, 2024

Hey Lifers!Britt has potentially found a new life... as a trad wife! Either that or she's going off grid more often.Laura has had a bit of a mishap spreading her beautiful grandparent's ashes.How do you feel about sharing your kids online? Where is the line when it comes to kids being paid to create online content? You might remember the horrible story of the mum, Ruby Franke, who was charged with 4 counts of child abuse earlier this year. There is a brand new film called 'Mormon Mom Gone Wrong' that came out on Oct 26 that details the story of the Franke family and their youtube account that had 2 million subscribers.Shari Franke is now 21 years old and has shared her testimony in court about her experiences of abuse and family vlogging. She states that there is no such thing as a moral and ethical family vlogger.We unpack these questions: Should children have a say in family vlogging content? What are the ethical implications of involving kids in content? Can you get informed consent from kids? How should kids be ‘compensated’ if they are making content that makes money? Does it matter if they make money? Does it change when it becomes a significant income source? You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xx    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hey guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I am Laura. I had an incredible, well actually an incredible weekend and a really weird weekend at the same time. You were posting on socials and it looked so nice. Yeah.

And I also was confused because I felt like I'd been left out of this big decision that you'd made to go away for the weekend. I was like, where are you? Why are you having such a nice time without me? I did see on three different mediums, Laura writes me, where are you, honey? What's going on, love? And I was like, does she think that I'm like set up some big event without her? No, because I didn't get a reply. And then I kept seeing nice pictures. I was like, oh my God, I don't know where you are, but it looks amazing. So I messaged you on Instagram and I was like, hey, where are you? No reply. It's like you had FOMO. Left on scene. Then I messaged you in text. I was like, Brit, I don't know where you are, but it looks amazing. Where are you? And then you

replied to everything else I was like why is she keeping the location a secret I didn't intentionally mean to I did go away for one night that was it I didn't go on this big you really built that suspense in me though I enjoyed it yeah I wanted to keep you on your toes I went away for one night not far it was only like an hour and a half but I had such a whole I just needed to escape Sydney just for a hot second I just wanted to get away I hope you know that where you went to Bundina is still classified as Sydney. It is, but it's an hour and a half and there is nothing around. I was like farmland, like bushland.

And I think I have decided on a new life direction. Country Brittany, farmer Brit. I am going to be a trad wife. I'm going to be a trad wife. I baked my bread. We went and collected. We foraged for the 16 free range chickens and we got the free range chicken eggs. and we made it eggs onto our bread that we had baked.

We collected the honey from the bee honey hive that is also there. I was looking out over into the hinterland and I was putting my bee honey and bread and I was like, I think I'm meant to be a trad wife. And then I came home and had a frozen meal for dinner. Britt, I have always thought those trad wives have like, they've been hard done by in media. They really need someone like you to represent them. Do you reckon?

No. I'd be like the modern day trad wife where I'd just do like one thing a day. No, I did genuinely come home reinvigorated and I was like, this is the new me. But will you serve your husband and have 17 children? Well, no, this is my point. I genuinely was like, I'm suited to this. Like this felt so good. But then I did come home and as soon as I got home, it was so stressful that I literally

did have a frozen meal for dinner. And I was like, the trad life's not for me. I think that there's a very big difference between trad wifing it or just living in the country, which sounds like you both do. it doesn't sound like you want like you don't want the seven kids part living on a farm with no internet like that's not the part you want vlogging your entire life actually speaking of vlogging we have a lot to talk about on today's episode but brit i don't see the trad wife life for you i just don't oh can you actually deal with who i am collects one egg she's like trad

wife i also can't see you cleaning up a chicken coop can't see you milking a cow i just can't see you doing any of the things that pertain to trad wife life i can only see it if you have a wi-fi connection like I think that's where you draw the line dude how do you think trad wives upload their trad life wi-fi they have internet this is true that's how they're so famous it's very true well look our weekends were very different I really don't know how to share this story with you oh god okay just spit it out just gonna go with it so on the weekend we did something that was well on one hand it was very sentimental and on the other hand I don't know how to talk about it because I'm gonna laugh and it's totally inappropriate we scattered my

grandparents ashes on the weekend right so tell me when I laugh I got yeah I got the hard bit out first so you guys might I mean you might remember or if you've listened to the pod for a little while so my my papa passed away a few years ago my nan passed away this year they were literally parents to me like I am and have been so close with my grandparents I lived with them growing up like they were my parental figures yeah and so today yes no it wasn't today it was yesterday so yesterday it was kind of a big deal and a big day and something that we've always known that we were going to do. And so my nan for my entire life would always make this joke. She would always say, oh, when I die, just cremate me and throw me off Mount Kira. Now she would say it so frequently

that it almost became a bit satirical. Like she would say it, we'd be having Christmas lunch and she's like, oh God, when I die, just toss me off Mount Kira. Well, I don't think that's a joke. I think she's trying to make sure you all know that she wants to be at Mount Kira. Oh, we did. Literally for as long as my memory goes back, I remember my nan saying, just toss me off Mount Kira. And so my papa would always just be there and he'd just chuckle along, but they always said they wanted it to be done together. Just throw them off Mount Kira. Even to the point where, so my papa, he's Italian and in Italian culture, you don't get cremated, you get buried, right? So my nan was telling my nonna a million years ago, and this is just like kind of like an old

story for my family. My nonna was telling my nonna that they were going to get cremated and thrown off Mount Kira. And my nonna had this full blown Italian meltdown at the table and was like, screaming at my nan. I don't know if I can do accents but it's my own nonna so I feel like I can. Yeah that's not appropriation if it's your nan. Am I getting cancelled for that? No. You are Italian. You're Italian guys. Yeah you're Italian. I'm Italian. Can't speak it. We're so worried that now you can't even impersonate your own gran. Rest in peace. No it's just an accent. She has an accent. So yesterday the day came and for something that should feel very reverend and should feel I don't even know how to describe it I think I had it built up in my mind that it was

going to be this like really solemn experience but if you have ever done an ashes scattering I'm curious as to whether you felt the same as me there was something quite unreverent about it because firstly we get them my mum's got a woolly's bag and inside the woolly's bag is my nana my papa and she pulls it out and why is she in a woolly's bag because the funeral parlor I didn't know this they gave my nana in a plastic ziploc bag a huge plastic ziploc bag unless you like pre-buy the urn or have it ready then that's how it goes to you yeah that's crazy put it in something nice yeah but you've got to buy the urn don't just give them out it's not like you get a car you can earn so my mom obviously went for the budget option but we knew we knew we were

scattering anyway so nan's in a plastic ziploc bag papa is in a plastic urn right but the lid's on it's so tight that we needed to get a screwdriver so we're there at the lookout of Mount Kira there's lots of families there's lots of people there just trying to go about their day taking photos of themselves looking out over the beautiful vista of Wollongong and there's my family the kids are running around with roses so finally we get it open we put them both into the same plastic rippler bag so you mix them together we mix them together that's cute beautiful they're together again and it would have been their 73rd wedding anniversary oh I just got goosebumps because they were always together. They're together in Rolly's bag. What more could you want in the

plastic Ziploc bag? Mum cuts the corner off the bag because apparently you don't just open the Ziploc bag because it goes everywhere. So she cuts the corner off, hands it to my sister. My sister leans out over the fence and does a bit of the scattering. And then it's my turn and I get the bag and I do a bit of the scattering. And as I'm doing the scattering, the top of the Ziploc bag, because it's so heavy because it's got two lots of ashes in it, opens up. So then it's pouring out from both sides and my mum's in the corner like save some for me that's not funny so I panicked because it was coming out too quickly so I tried to stop it and as I tried to stop it I flicked the bag and the ashes flicked up and went straight down the front of me Laura did you eat papa

Papa went down my top and down my pants. Everyone was laughing and no one was helping me. And I was covered. What are they going to do? Put their hand down your pants to get Papa out? What did you want them to do? Matt got the whole thing on video, but I really, I just don't know if I'm at a point where I can share it because it feels, it feels too inappropriate.

But as it was all happening, I was like, Papa would have found this funny. He would have laughed. Of course he would have. And Nana would have laughed too. I know exactly what you're saying. And I don't want to compare your papa and your nana to a bag of soil. But when you're – fuck, bro, don't listen. Because I know what you're saying.

You know when you've got a huge bag of soil and you're pouring and you get to the point where too much goes, you can't stop it. Yes. And so like trying to put it back in is really hard. So imagine that with soil. And soil is a bit more dense. Whereas like ash, if you've ever scattered ashes, it's so light. It's so just like – it's just nothingness.

Also on a mountain, wind, you know, wind. yeah it blowing up yeah it literally just flicked back on me anyway so is he still in your pants now these are the pants i wore yesterday i haven't washed them yet papa is literally in this room papa's all around us my sister said to me don't you fucking dare tell this story on the podcast and i was like you come on i was like papa would have laughed papa did it for this reason now he's immortalized on life on cut he knew we needed content he knew you needed something i I think he knew that if he was going to do that to anyone, it should have been you because you would see the humor in it. Whereas everyone else might've gotten a little bit sad

that they had to clean him out of their own door. So great. Don't you remember a couple of years ago we had an accidentally unfiltered, like we had a liper right in and she was like on the coastal walk on this like really romantic moment with someone. And she started to like make out with him and they had this beautiful like date and then they could feel something on them and around them and they didn't know what it was well the wind kicked up and they were covered in dust yeah the wind and i was like all this dust and then like what is this and then they looked up and someone was spreading their ashes off a cliff and it just went straight onto this couple that were trying to make it out that's hectic hectic i do want to say look 73 years nana and papa i know

you don't listen to life uncut but i think about you all the time don't you reckon there's like a big party up there and they're all listening to life uncut probably not i reckon they're hanging around playing chess I really hope that they're not listening the only thing I want to say though is if you're someone who has done an ashes scattering I'm sure that there's different levels of how sad and solemn it feels like I'm sure that that some people have done it and it's been incredibly like devastating to have to do it and then I'm sure that there's been people who have also done it and it's been like beautiful but they've also been able to see the funny side like we did too so I just want to say like I know that other people's experiences would have been

different but I think that there needs to be a better system for the scattering that's the only thing I think most people depending on where you've done it it is not conducive for going out into the wind it really does just go everywhere and we're laughing because we're not I mean we're not laughing at anyone in particular it's a it's a situation that I think can be light-hearted having said that it wasn't my grandpa so I'm sorry if you're offended he knows we love him I love how much we have to preface everything so that we don't it's funny guys don't cancel There are so many videos I have seen of like, I saw another woman, it's not funny, but I saw another woman going to the ocean and her partner was obviously filming her.

She was like knee deep. She got this big thing of ashes. She threw them out and the wind just blew them straight back in her face. Like just blew it straight back at her. And I was like, these things shouldn't be funny, but they are. And like, I think you just have to embrace it. It reminds me of that scene from White Lotus where she's hanging off the side of the boat. Hey, I do have an update actually. Sometimes I forget maybe how big the podcast is. Sometimes

I feel like we come into a room and I know we've said this before. Sometimes I think we come into a room, we just sit down and have a yarn, a couple of people listen. And we're so glad that you guys listen to us. We love you all. Well, I got a DM. So you might remember last week, we were talking about hens parties and the kind of hens party that we want. Now I'm going to cast you back, Laura, because I can see that you've forgotten. We talk about so much on this podcast. I can't remember yeah so we were joking about the kind of hens that I would want which is pretty low-key that's right you wanted that stripper the famous stripper yeah the Channing Tatum magic mic stripper yeah I remember okay I get a dm from Channing Tatum magic mic stripper he's like hey I heard

you want me at your strip party I'm there count me in kiddo can you send me his details because he doesn't need to do Channing Tatum stripper I was like I don't know how to respond to this Because I don't want to be locking in my own magic mic dancer. And I was like, I feel like this is inappropriate. But he's like, yeah, I got you. And I was like, wow, the world works fast, doesn't it? And he's like, yeah. He's like, a few people sent it to me saying you were keen for me.

And I was like, what? Life is, you have our back. Thank you for that. Thank you for doing the organisational work for me. So now he's keen. But what I do want to say is, you can't organise it yourself. You have to pass these details on to me. And as your producer, I will organise,

I will produce your hen's party with the Magic Mike stripper. Yes, I definitely can't organise the stripper myself. If Benny's going to listen to this and be like, Brittany, I heard you organising your own stripper. It's like this wasn't, don't act shocked on the day. We're like, oh, who's this? How did he get here? And you specifically choose this one.

You're like, I want him and only him. Hang on. He is hot. Yeah, but I want people to understand. I didn't put that, that was one comment that we made on the podcast where I was like, oh, I don't think I'd want a stripper. but the only one I'd want is like a magic mic dancer that actually like he performs constantly like around Australia, overseas.

He knows the moves. Stop. I think we need to just insert the actual audio here because that is not what you said. What you said is you wanted the guy who looked like Channing Tatum. Insert audio here, Keisha. Yes, exactly. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do.

Yeah. So you don't want strippers? I'm not opposed to a stripper. But like in the daylight still. I don't want to be drunk at midnight with a dick in my face. Who would be good? Who I would approve? I actually have spoken to him before online.

Not in that way, in a business sense. Wow, this sounds so bad. I did slide into his DMs. The very famous stripper in Australia, he works for Magic Mike and he looks exactly like Channing Tatum. Have you seen him? Yeah, I've seen him. When I say I spoke to him, I need to clarify this

because someone's going to run with it. I think it was about a radio segment many, many moons ago we were going to get him on. he someone like him would be great but the other reason I thought he would be good is because it's actual entertainment like they are proper dancers they're really good the whole entourage is coming I'm like bring your friends but it's also it's the kind of dance where I feel like people feel more comfortable with it because his job is to dance it's not his job is not to strip per se like sorry I'm really confused yes I'm trying to get myself out of it because Ben's listening I'm

confused as to who you're trying to convince yeah okay so we know we're trying to convince Ben Okay, hey, Ben, I'm organizing a stripper. You have no idea who it's going to be. Ooh, surprise. But the other good thing is, and this is what I would want, I don't want him to come for me. Like I don't want him to come. I definitely don't want him to come for me.

I don't want him to just come to dance for me. Like you know how usually they put the hen in and I don't want that. I want it to be like a private magic mic where he's getting people up and he's doing the moves and he's on everyone. I understand and I will go as tribute. It's okay. I volunteer. Laura volunteers as tribute.

Anyway, that's my update. So I will link you somehow to Magic Mike. Thank you. Send it to Keisha. She's better at organising than me. Yeah, it'll never happen if it goes to Laura. Laura will be like, wait, you're getting married? Is it in the calendar?

Is it in time tree? Can someone put it in time tree already? I will double book. What we wanted to talk about in today's discussion is around the ethics of sharing your kids online, but not just sharing your kids online, because I think that that is something that every parent has to consider. But what about those who make money from sharing content of their children and specifically family vlogging? So there's different types of content of which people share and how they make money from sharing their family or their children. But family vlogging is

a very particular kind of all access and unvetted access into people's lives where they share the ins and outs of everyday life about their family, about their children, and they also monetize it. You guys might remember Ruby Frankie. She was a very famous family vlogger. She was like a mummy vlogger, but it went further than mummy vlogging. It was family vlogging. Her entire family of eight people were involved 24 hours a day in a YouTube channel called Eight Passengers. So this YouTube channel has over 2 million subscribers. It's absolutely massive. And this family were one of the earlier people that dabbled in family vlogging. And a lot of people don't know, but Salt Lake City in Utah has one of the highest populations of the Mormon faith. So a

lot of them have a lot of kids. And because of that, they tend to share their families online because they want to help spread the faith. So if you don't know this story, I just want to set it up a little bit further. So Ruby is the mum. Her business partner, Jodie Hildebrandt, was arrested last year alongside Ruby for child abuse. So two of their children were found extremely malnourished with sores, cuts and bruises on their ankles and their wrists from being chained up. The abuse that they were experiencing by these two women was really, really hard to watch. It's even hard to talk about. So in February, Frankie was sentenced to up to 30 years in prison for brutally abusing two of these six children in quote concentration camp like settings. The reason

we're talking about this now is that a film named Mormon Mum Gone Wrong has just come out on October 26 and it details the experience that the Frankie family went through. The problem is the Frankie family weren't consulted at all. So the 21 year old daughter Shari Frankie, she has come out begging people not to watch it because she has said no one that was involved in the making of this film has consulted our family. Well, it just shows how the family is being further exploited. 100%. And secondly, Shari Frankie has started a whole new conversation about if family vlogging should even exist, if children should be being exploited to make money for the family, even if it goes back to the child, making money for the parents, or is it in fact another form of child

abuse. Now, the reason why I think that this is such an interesting conversation to have, and I also want to be really clear around the bias here, because we spoke about whether we wanted to talk about this on today's episode. And part of me was like, how do I talk about something when I also share my kids online? And Shari had some really incredibly valid points around the insidious side of child vlogging and family vlogging. And I think that there is so much about what she said that has value and weight. And then there are also some things that I really wanted to get in discussing. This is what Shari had to say. There is no such thing as a moral or ethical family blogger. Many child influencers are paid for their work as I was and this money

has helped me in my adult life. However, this payment was usually a bribe. For example, we'd be rewarded $100 or a shopping trip if we filmed a particularly embarrassing moment or an exciting event in our lives there is no long place to guarantee that child influencers get any money from their work any payment that does happen is under the table with no paper trail and how do we determine how much a child should make from appearing in family content what price is worth giving up your childhood the camera never stops and there is no such thing as a break from filming in any other context it is understood that children cannot give consent but for some reason people think family vlogging is different in addition pedophiles stalk the internet specifically

seeking out child influencers i promise you that the parents are aware of these predators and choose to post their children anyway if i could go back and do it all again i'd rather have an empty bank account now and not have my childhood plastered all over the internet family vlogging ruined my innocence long before ruby committed a crime firstly i think it's incredibly devastating to hear shari's opinion and her take on the experiences that she had as a child but it does bring into question like where is the line and for a industry that I know that this is based in Utah but an industry that is so hugely unregulated even here in Australia what are the parameters that there are to protect children apart from just hoping that the way that the parents are

engaging with those kids online is in an ethical way I think this case in particular is really interesting and it's hard to compare it across the board to every other family vlogging because there's obviously another layer of extreme abuse that was happening behind closed doors. So I don't want to say that this case should be the blanket case that we use for family vlogging, because I hope that no other situations like this are existing right now. But it's interesting to hear her say, I would rather not have a dollar now and go back and have my childhood. I mean, that's easy to say as well when you have money. But when you look at some of the young YouTube families and kids, I understand why families do it 100%. And I know we've talked about this before,

but there are some kids and families on YouTube that are earning upwards of $50 million a year. Yeah, it's crazy. Now, I guess I kind of have two feelings about this. And as I said, you know, we obviously, like Matt and I, we do share parts of our lives online. And I was trying to see, okay, well, where does the ethics sit for me? Like, what am I and aren't I okay with when it comes to sharing my kids, where it becomes insidious and where it becomes a real problem is when the entire family income or the majority family income comes from expecting your children to partake in content. Because once that becomes the parameters for how you make your income as a family, it makes it impossible for a child to not be involved in it. It's a job that they can't

quit. It's a job that they can't opt out of because your livelihood is dependent on the holiday that you go on where you're promoting XYZ or the products that you've been given where you're promoting them. And I think about it in terms of our life and how we manage to negotiate around it. Doing content online is absolutely not our bread and butter. And we therefore have the opportunity to pick and choose the things that we know we have control over. And it is a way that we feel completely ethical around because our main income sources come from other things. But it absolutely makes me question and makes me have these moments where I'm like, okay, well, what are the parts that are okay to share and what are the parts that as a family you have to keep

sacred and to yourself? One statement that Shari said in her testimony was some of our most popular videos were when my eyebrow was accidentally waxed off and the whole world saw a crying teenager who just wanted to mourn in private. One time I was violently ill and got the leading role in the family video for that day. My friends became scarce because dates would be filmed and none of my friends wanted to be on camera. The camera never stops and there is no such thing as a vacation from filming. That is horrific. That is not unboxing. That is not giving your child a present. That is capitalizing on some of their lowest and darkest moments. For your child to be trying to figure out who they are, going through something traumatic in their life and

you being like, hold on, don't cry anymore. I've got to get the camera. If your child is violently ill and your first thought is to not go to them and help them and look after them is to get the camera because that'll get good views then yes that is a form of abuse and no child in the world should be doing that yeah but I think I mean the line is blurry because I mean how much content have you just stumbled across online where it's parents intentionally humiliating their kids because it's funny or it gets clicks and I know we've spoken about it lightly before we talked about on the radio show even the stupid egg challenge which is which is nothing I know it's nothing but every time I would see the egg challenge it made me feel so fucking rageful

and if you're not familiar with the egg challenge it's basically where you ask your child oh like come and cook with me we're gonna make a cake and then you crack an egg on their head and they then you film their reaction and the only reaction that there is in that moment is either betrayal because the kid's so confused that you wanted to spend time with them and then you cracked an egg on their head instead or it's like feeling of embarrassment and then you're filming their embarrassment and i know it's not a big deal because when we spoke about it i mean i know it's not a big deal to some people. I know when we spoke about it on radio, some people were like, oh, it's just a joke. Get over it. Yes, I do agree that it's okay to have jokes with your kids. But

if the only premise that you had that joke is because you're filming it for other people on the internet to laugh, then it kind of goes beyond it just being a joke. You're doing it for content. And that's the thing that I don't like about it. So what's the line for you then, Laura? I mean, I kind of mentioned it in terms of like having additional revenue streams. It's tricky because when I listened to this speech, it definitely made me question and it definitely made me think whether I and Matt are doing the right thing and whether we're approaching our social media in the right way. I think up until date, we've definitely been very on the same page with stuff. But this concept, and I do absolutely and deeply agree with what Shari's

saying, is that children don't have the ability to consent. And in every other aspect of life, we talk about, well, kids are minors and kids don't have conscious consent around the things that they are or aren't involved in. And I also do think that kids very much want to make their parents happy. So of course they're going to say yes to doing things that maybe they don't want to do. And I guess where the line is for me in terms of monetary income is that we have a very separate account for both of our children and every job that they do, when I say job, anything that they partake in on social media, where there's an income that's made, that money goes into their account. I hope that when they're older, they don't have the opinion

of like, well, I didn't need all this money, mom. I just didn't want to have any photos on the internet, but it could be the case. And that's what made me think this. And it's not because I have the answers to it. It's purely because I was like, well, how do you know if you're doing the right thing? And I do think that it is an incredibly unregulated space. and I absolutely do believe that there needs to be more regulations that are put into place and whether those regulations come down to how parents share content or whether those regulations more pertain to how that income is absolutely safeguarded for the children because I do agree with this idea that there's a lot of kids who are doing social media for their parents and they're

making incredible money like crazy crazy amounts of money that some of these kids would be earning but that money is not going to the children. It's going into the parents' account and then the parents get to decide how much of it they give to the kids or what part of it the kids get as payment. And is that the holiday? Is that the unboxing of the gift? Or is it actually the monetary amount that they're receiving at the end also? Well, that is a conversation we've had so many times and not just we, but society and media have had that conversation. What's too much? Should kids be involved in content? But I think Shari has added another layer to the conversation by saying, oh I got the money that's not the problem my parents paid me I'm living well now I'm at uni

I've got an apartment great I would still rather not have a dollar so she has added another level to the conversation saying it's not about that I worked for free because she got all the money she would still rather have nothing than have been put through what she put through in her childhood and it's interesting because we talk about consent and informed consent children can't give informed consent because they don't have the ability the conscious ability they can say oh yeah i'll film this and there are instagram captions that i found on shari's own instagram from just a couple of years ago when she was under 18 but she was a teenager they're talking about how happy she was to have shared a life and i'm so glad to have been able to share my life with you

and growing up in front of you and all these like beautiful captions and then only a couple of years later when she's actually an adult and she's able to make a conscious decision herself she's realized fucking hell. What was my childhood? I was so conditioned to even, that was just a standard statement to come out being like, you know, great growing up in front of you when she hated every second. I think it's important though, that we distinguish the fact that we're kind of conflating or vlogging at the moment. I think that there are very big differences and I don't want to discredit anything that Shari says because this is her own experience. And I know at the very beginning of her speech, she said, I am the daughter of someone who was convicted of child

abuse, but I'm not coming to you as that person today. I don't think that you can extrapolate the two because her version of being a child vlogger was that it was unrelenting that every single experience of her life was shared publicly and for literal public viewing of anyone online. Whereas I think of people like Not So Mumsy, for example. So Marcia Leone, you guys might be familiar with her if you're a mum yourself. She has shared parts of her motherhood journey. She has shared parts of her children but she picks and chooses the things that she shares in a way that I think is very very curated and creates a lot of protection around her children as well like as much as I know that she has a son and she has a daughter I haven't seen the intricacies of their

life I don't see when they're upset or when they're having tantrums or when they're sick like you only see the little bits and pieces that she has obviously made the decision that she feels safe in sharing. And I guess there has to be this kind of understanding that most parents don't want to exploit their children. Most parents love their kids and don't want to treat them in a way that would in any capacity bring harm to their life or exploit their most vulnerable moments. But obviously some people do. And in this instance, this Ruby Frankie woman didn't care about her kids as much as she cared about her online fame and growing her online community. And the only way to grow her online community to that level was to share more and more and more of her children's

life right so she made that trade-off because ultimately she's a pretty fucking shitty mom but I don't think that she's the benchmark for all mothers online the other thing I want to add in this is that I know that there are a lot of moms who start online blogging and I don't mean vlogging like video blogging their entire life they start blogging they share bits and pieces that they choose or their content creators where they share bits and pieces on Instagram because when you first have a baby, being a mum kind of consumes your entire identity for a little while. You feel as though that's literally your whole person is that you're a mum purely because you have this baby that's attached to you that has just come out of you. You've experienced this

thing that you've never ever experienced before. And sharing content online also allows some mums to find their own community to contribute to that conversation around motherhood. So I do think that there have been loads of beneficial and really positive things that have come out of the space i don't think we can just completely whitewash it i think that there has to be a line that's kind of somewhere in the middle yeah and the last thing that i want to add which it'd be remiss of us not to add it it's it's the elephant in the room but shari goes on in her statement to say the fact is there are pedophiles and creeps yeah that troll the internet not just for children but for family vlogging because it's such an excessive amount of the same child. So it's not like they

just get one picture or one video of a child once. They form an attachment to that child and that family. And that to me makes me feel physically sick. It makes me feel physically sick to say, but it's an important part of the conversation. These are all things I think we all need to consider. And it's not even quote unquote famous family vlogging. It's just, if you're an everyday person that shares a lot of your family, it's also a consideration and just something you need to think about. I don't think we're ever going to get to the stage of this society now, and I think it's only going to get worse, where we keep children off the internet completely. I kind of want to be clear on this because I feel like you can go so far down the really seedy and scary

rabbit hole. We've had Bond's baby for as long as we could have imagined. There's a photo of me and Marley on the back of a bus at the moment. Ambassadors for Cancer Council. That money is going into my kid's account and they are in a campaign, which one, it's an incredible message around sun safety. Two, they're fully clothed, wearing hats, sunglasses, and everything else. And I don't see that as being unfettered access to their lives. I see that in the same way that any kid who's in a commercial, I see that in the same vein. If it is your only source of income, you don't have the opportunity to say no. You don't have the opportunity to choose something else. It's not our only source of income. It's a thing that we can opt into and opt out of whenever

we want to. And so, and I absolutely want to say like my perspective on this is not static. It's changed since the kids were little and it's continuing to change as they grow up. I even think of people like, for example, Steph Claire Smith, she recently shared that she's no longer going to share her son's face online. But I also find that an interesting balance because although she doesn't share his face, she still shares so many stories about him and also still shares photos of him, just blurs his face out. So it's like, well, how much of the story is his story versus just being the image of him as a kid? I did see her talk about that though. And I found that all very interesting. I completely understand why she's doing it. She just said he's getting to

the stage now where he's not just a baby, he's a boy and he's very recognizable. And I don't, she's got over a million followers. She's like, people will recognize him and call out to him on the street, strangers. She's like, and he, I don't want him to start to confuse. Do I know that person? Do I know that stranger? And when she explained it, it made a lot of sense. But the reaction from the audience was really interesting. Like some people were quite angry and having to go to being like, mate, you've shared his face his whole life. What's the difference now? Because they feel a sense of entitlement. That's scary. Well, that's what comes back to the next question on, are we enabling this as viewers? Are we,

we're the ones that are giving them the 2 million views on YouTube. We're the ones that are engaged in their family, we do see now that reality TV is getting more clicks and views than drama. So that's a question we need to ask ourselves. Why are we so obsessed with these families? And should we be so obsessed with these families? But I also, and I mean, I'm just thinking of examples that kind of live in the Australian sphere, because obviously this is a Utah family, they're a Mormon family, they're a big family. And part of something that you established at the start, Britt, and something that Shari speaks about in her speech is that it is quite specific to Utah in that Mormon families want to spread the message of their spiritual beliefs. And so

it's advantageous to them to share more and more about their family life and how those family structures work. But someone who comes to mind is really famous Australian family vlogger Kat Clark. And she kind of came under scrutiny last year because her daughter was unenrolled from school and was going to be homeschooled. And there was a couple of quotes in there because their life and their careers have changed and it would allow them to be more accessible to film. TikToking takes a lot of time. So therefore Deja would be able to put more time and energy into TikToking alongside making school life more flexible for her and her working life. I guess like for me, it does make me question in some of those instances, like where is the line when your

kid's income and your kid's working at 12 years old is so intertwined in how your family makes money that to me is kind of where the area gets really gray and I think that that is the business family vlogging is where those legislations need to come in and where the protections and the ethics need to be investigated further yeah and I mean it's hard if I look back on my childhood growing up and there was an option for me to be on YouTube and make 50 million dollars a year my parents fucking love me but I'd be on there I would be on YouTube and that because it's such a ridiculously unattainable amount of money that I don't know many people that would say, no, I'd rather my kid goes to school than stays home and has fun. There's quite a lot of YouTubers

that are on between $20 to $50, $60 million. And I looked at it before we came in here. Kids and their families, these are the excessive amount. That's not the average, but there are people that make hundreds of thousands of dollars. Do you think that there's a difference between long form content, which is what exists on YouTube, versus a couple of photos or a 60-second reel that sits on Instagram? 100%. There's a difference in terms of, obviously, it's taking a lot more effort and a lot more time, and it is more invasive to have long form content, 100%, to a clip here and there

of a few seconds. But at the end of the day, once something is on the internet, whether it's a photo, a three-second clip, or a 20-minute clip, it's on the internet. So your child will live on the internet. anyone can have access to that child for the rest of their lives yeah no i agree with that i guess what i mean by long-form content is that and when we say it feels more invasive what i mean is is that you're giving so much more of their life you're giving so much more of the intricacies around their experiences their vulnerable moments their childhood you're giving that away rather

than it being and i know that we say social media is a highlight reel but like a legitimate highlight reel like here are the things that i've picked and chosen that are a curated version of my family Yeah. Would you, as someone who is somewhat in this world, Laura, would you support stronger regulations, legal? Because I think a lot of the problem comes back to the fact that this is all ethical right now. It's kind of each family to their own and the ethics of the mums and the dads that impact the children. Whereas Shari is pushing to have harsher legislative reforms so that these types of things cannot happen legally. I absolutely think that there should be way more legislation around it. I think it is crazy that it is up to parents to dictate how their kids, not just how

their kids are shared online, but how their children are monetized online. I think that there absolutely should be restrictions around it because like I said, we can think that most people and most parents, and I am sure it is the majority of parents, feel as though they are doing what they're doing with goodwill as we do, but also where is the limit? If you are left to make up that decision for yourself not everybody has good judgment and I think that having parameters that says okay very black and white this is what the rules are would also mean that the situations of children being exploited in this industry would be far more minimized or at least there'd be some very big red flags when it felt as though the hours of time of which filming happened the amount

of accessibility the how is the money being distributed like all of those things should be legally declared I think and that's something that's very very different and I have no problems with that. Like I think that that would be a great thing. Well, you guys know we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low light of the week. I will kick this bad boy off. My suck this week is I had a family member really, really unwell in the hospital and it just gave me a lot of stress and anxiety. Like our whole family was very on edge. They are better now, but it was, yeah, they were very, very unwell for a couple of days. So it was very worrying we spoke about this a little bit earlier and I am very glad that everything is

okay now but yeah you can share what you want to share but I'm just glad that things are good yeah but everything's fine so thank you my sweet is yeah I just had a really nice weekend away it wasn't anything trad wife yeah I'm a trad wife that's my sweet I just don't trad wife without the kids that's not a thing is it you can be a trad wife without kids for sure absolutely I mean like I think trad wife is that you're supposed to then procreate and have lots of them I think that's the idea yeah I'm not even it's a joke I'm not trad wifing I get hello fresh to live bit. I'm like, tell me your suck. All right. My suck for the week is probably that my grandparents went down my shirt, but like, I think that that's an understandable suck. Maybe that's the sweet

though. I don't think so. You took them home with you. My suck for the week is definitely that, but then also just this last week was very chaotic in terms of a lot of things were planned and everything was scheduled to the nines, work and family and then ash scattering and everything was just kind of, it was a really stacked week and things didn't exactly go to plan. And it was a very, very stressful week in terms of organization and trying to make sure that everyone was in the places that they needed to be. My highlight of the week though, like my sweet for the week was purely that, I mean, obviously going and scattering the ashes was nice. And I know that we keep making jokes about it, but it was a really awesome time with the fam. But my actual sweet for the week was

Saturday. So Saturday we just went to the farmer's markets with the kids and it was a really, really a good day like we had this one moment where Marley was like this is the best day ever they're easy to please easy fucking easy to please these kids that I said the same thing I was like I collected eggs best day ever Marley also wants to be a trad one I'm very similar to Marley but yeah no it was a great weekend all in all a very family orientated weekend oh cute yeah well that's it guys please keep all of your questions coming in you're accidentally unfiltered send them into Life Uncut podcast if you prefer to email us you can also do that we have YouTube you can watch everything on YouTube and also

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