Life Uncut - It hurts! When sex is painful. Talking vaginismus with Jessie Stephens

Episode Date: July 3, 2023

Hello you beautiful Lifers,  Britt is back from Bali and Laura is off to Fiji on her honeymoon, but we managed to squeeze in one great big catch up in Britt's apartment before Laura heads off. We are catching up on where things are at in our own relationships and Laura has some feels before leaving on her honeymoon - which isn't exactly what you might be expecting.  Joining the podcast today to speak about her experiences of vaginismus is the wonderful Jessie Stephens. Jessie is likely a familiar voice from the Mamamia Out Loud podcast, the podcast ‘Cancelled’ or from hosting The Project. She’s also an author of the international best seller ‘Heartsick.’ In this chat we speak about Jessie's experience with vaginismus & how it can feel for different women Pain and discomfort during sex, using tampons or pap smears How to have the conversation with sexual partners Managing vaginismus during pregnancy and childbirth If you'd like to check out any of Jessie's content and get amongst her new book:Mamamia out loud podcast.Cancelled podcastHer new book! If you have an accidentally unfiltered, your most embarrassing story, please send it on it to life uncut podcast on Instagram hereJoin us on tiktok Or join the facebook group here Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xx  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Gadigal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. And I'm Brittany. And we are back together again.

Brittany literally just got off a plane, sauntered on in. I've been sitting in her apartment waiting. I don't think I sauntered, I think I rolled in. Well, we've been in a long-distance relationship, Laura, you and I, for the last eight days. You're always in a long-distance relationship with someone. This is how I like my relationships. No one gets too close to me, don't have too much contact at any time. I went to Bali with Ben and we was, I think it was only eight days,

but we just got back. So the flight's the red-eye flight. You know, you leave at like 10 o'clock at night. It's every single flight that comes out of Bali back to Australia. If you've been, you know it. If you haven't, there's one flight and it's like 11 o'clock at night and it gets in at 8 o'clock in the morning and it's an arse of a flight. Oh, my gosh.

And it was, talk about arse of a flight. It was such an ordeal. We were, actually, I just thought about this. We were running late to the airport last night. so we were told to get there well and truly three hours in advance and I was like it just seems excessive I know everyone always says three hours but it seemed excessive so we're like let's just call it two and a half traffic was so bad we were driving there with obviously we had a driver to drive us we didn't have a car it was so bad we were like oh my god we're not going to make it

then we're probably a 12 minute drive away this is late at night it's dark there are no road rules Zimbabwe we are on this tollway bridge highway and we hear this huge smash and I was like oh my god what was that then the car starts like swerving on and I was like this is how it ends anyway we pull over the wheel is completely gone off your car in yeah and we're on the highway at night these are trucks like smashing past us we're already late I was like we're gonna miss this flight the poor taxi driver's like your flight I've got three weeks that's exactly what he was he was like can I can I just say when you said there's no road rules in Bali that's like what every single tourist thinks and that's why everyone drives like an absolute flog over there

there are road rules people just don't follow them no it's organized chaos so there's rules they know how it works right but it's it seems like it doesn't work but it does it works for them anyway well I'm like what are we going to do I'm going to try and order another taxi to get us on this bridge highway there wasn't even enough room to pull over on the side of the road without the trucks going past people had to swerve around us there's no pullover lane right so I'm like okay I need to order us a taxi but we also need to help this man because it's late at night he's on the road with three wheels no help I was like look to him I said I'm going to call a taxi but we're going to sort this out so no turns out no taxi would come get us and I was like we're going to

miss a flight ben has to fly back to switzerland if he misses this flight he doesn't get home which was something that's not that bad great for me you'll probably get fired um anyway ben bless his soul this is the first tire he has ever changed he gets down on his hands and knees and he and this guy the taxi driver changing these tires putting things in the boot i have never seen you would think ben had just saved me from war he got up and he was like i did it babe not all heroes wear capes he's like look at these hands his hands had like some black dirt from the tire on them he's like i'm such i'm i'm such a man i'm so and i'm like oh my god babe just get in the fucking car like we're gonna like we're gonna we're gonna miss

this flight anyway we get in we've got like two minutes to spare we we're running through the whole terminal like chaos and by the way guys the car's fine it's fixed we're running through we get to the thing and they're like delayed two hours so we get on the plane and we get this like over the what's it called the microphone hi welcome to your flight this is your pilot jimmy nicholson and i was like bachelor bachelor jimmy 2008 bachelor actually what bachelor was he like 2009 10 no 2009 how old do you think he is that's when i was at university i just thought i think jimmy was 12 for a second then i thought i was on the 2007 bachelor i wasn't it was the 2017 i think you were 21 on the two on 2009 17 how old are we i don't know you're not too old anyway it was

i was like oh my god i explained to ben who it was and a few people on the flight had i saw they had recognized us and a few different people had waved at us and like said hello and i was like hi obviously just life is and things like that and um i'd messaged jimmy to be like mate have a get they're safe we have a great flight ha ha ha and he then gets on to the aircom and says welcomes everyone to the plane and then he says we just want to have a huge congratulations to ben and britney who just got engaged in bali what what a jerk what a jerk what a fucking jerk and there are people on there that recognize us and i'm like people what if it comes out tomorrow that we're engaged in the whole plane they're like a few people started clapping and i was like i am

mortified a i don't have a ring on my finger b i want this on the record right now ben did not propose i am not engaged but now an entire plane worth of people think that ben and i are engaged so fuck you bachelor pilot jimmy so good oh bless him oh and i said to ben i thought he had such a good sense of humor well it wasn't funny i find it funny anyway okay i have a question for you though so i mean well actually before i ask this let's just tell you guys what this episode's about we're interviewing jesse stevens on this in this app you might know her she's a host of mama mia out loud our arch nemesis yeah we actually just have her on here because we're gonna hog tire and put her in a

basement so that she can't do any more mama mia episodes because she's actually the competition and you know women never support women we hate each other to the grave except we love jesse we love jesse jesse's absolutely phenomenal and the reason why we have her is because she has such an interesting story, which I know that so many of you will not have heard before, even though you may be very, very familiar with Jessie. Now, Jessie used to struggle with vaginismus and vaginismus is something that affects one in three people. I think as a very basic level of explanation, it is painful sex. It is for women who find sex very painful for a multitude of different reasons. And this is something that Jessie experienced, not just sex, but any sort

of penetration. I'm talking putting in a tampon from the time that she was really young up until she was in her sort of like late twenties. And the reason why we want to talk about this is because it's something that affects one in three women at different points in their lifetime. And even if you yourself haven't been affected by it, those statistics would indicate that one of your friends has, maybe your sister has. Somebody who you love will have been affected by this. And I think it's an interview that literally everybody will get something out of because whether or not you've experienced yourself it'll give you the understanding of how you can have those conversations with those in your life who have yeah and jesse explains it so well a point that

you just said laura is chances are you one of your friends or someone you know has it she felt like she was in that position but she didn't know that anyone else experienced it she didn't know that what she was experiencing wasn't normal because no one was speaking about it which is a big reason why she is such a huge advocate for it and she's such a voice for it the other the really interesting thing i thought was the reasons that vaginismus can come on because they can be brought on by traumatic experiences um that you have been through in the past they can come from memories from thoughts it's it can be a visceral reaction that your body goes through to something i always just thought hey this is something you must be born with almost like a

reaction to protect itself and i guess like this is probably a good time to say like we do touch on sexual assault in this conversation with jesse and she's had her own experiences around that she shares so so vulnerably even if you know jesse and you love her so much from mama mia this is a really different side of her and i think everybody will get something out of it okay going back to you quickly brit obviously you've just arrived back in rolled in off the red eye looking fabulous bachelor jimmy pilot drove me here actually he what a what a service we got off the plane he's like let me escort you guys home and he drove us talk about valet but how are you feeling because ben flies out this evening and it's going to be quite a while between now and when you see him

again and I guess that when you're in a long distance relationship and you've got to do these really intense periods of oh my god everything's amazing we love each other we see each other every day and then just not having that tactile ability to see the person that you love um how are you feeling I'm it's actually so funny because in the past and all you guys will know I've said it a thousand times that I do love long distance I love being on my own I'd have no problem with it but I feel different now and I don't know if it's been where I'm at in my life the age I'm at um I don't know what it is but I don't want him to go I'm like I am obsessed with him I'm so unhealthily obsessed that I just want to be with him all the time and I know that people are going

to say it's the honeymoon phase and of course it is but you know we're not together just for a week at a time four or five weeks at a time we are together so like you definitely get into the groove you get into the life you have your arguments you have your ups and downs you live your every day as well as having your you know nice holidays I think though when you say like we have this obsession I and I mean obviously I'm not in your relationship but I get to see it very much like firsthand but you feel like you're in it but I mean but I also you're close enough to touch it um I do think though when you have a finite time frame on things even though it might be five weeks even though it might be six weeks and it's a longer period when you know that there

is an end to the time in which you're going to get to see each other it does intensify things you can't escape that and I think this time knowing that then he's going to go away for you know a longer period of time yeah just how do you feel about the fact that like you're back into doing the long distance part of the relationship the challenging part of the relationship you know the interesting thing is that I've discovered is with long distance so we'll still disagree and argue just as much as the next person or as much as if I was living with somebody but you you get over it quicker so we'll have an argument about something ridiculous and maybe if we were living together at home you might just sulk for a day or two or you might give

them the silent treatment or sometimes you're a bit harsher than you probably should be because you might feel like you want more attention but the difference with us is we go like that for a hot second 10 minutes and then we think far out we have like a week left are we really going to waste our time getting angry at each other and just makes you hash it out you talk it out you say sorry I didn't mean that you misunderstood and you get on with it and I think that that is probably a positive in knowing that we're not going to be together again is that you don't let the ridiculous superficial things come into the relationship like you might if you were living together and I don't know if you know what I mean Laura but I know we've spoken about like when

you've had arguments with Matt before over something ridiculous sometimes you're like he can come to me he can apologize and then he says the same thing he's like she can come to me and then like three days have gone past and you're both like you know I feel like that's the benefit of knowing that you have this finite time? Well, I mean, I think that's a really mature way of looking at a long distance relationship. So I'm sure that there are people who find it really challenging to navigate it

because small things can become big issues because you're not in front of each other with the ability to communicate. But I guess like everything, having a good base of communication and working things out and knowing that like you can't let things fester because that can just be so corrosive to the relationship

and that you have to address things quickly is definitely, I mean, of course, you should be doing it in all relationships, but maybe there's like more of an incentive to do that when you're like, okay, I'm not going to get to see you. So I don't want to feel as though we're not happy with each other. Yeah.

I want to fix it now. Yeah. I definitely haven't felt as strongly before with how much I don't want to do a long distance relationship. Like I don't want to look at the little look where we are now. I liked it six months ago. You were like, I will always want to do a long distance relationship.

I never want to be in the same country as this person. Like, you know, I just always want my space. they want to be able to do the me time and now that you have found the person you know the moment I thought it was my person as we're having this beautiful holiday and uh we went to the beach in the morning and then I went to the bathroom in the middle of the day did a wee and I was like that feels weird that feels different doing a wee yeah it just didn't feel normal and I was like wow

that was weird two hours later did another wee painful two hours later I was pissing so much blood I know this is hello UTI town now I I'm not a UTI person and hear me out it's not that it's that I don't like them I'm not a UTI I mean no one likes them um I'm not a UTI person I don't and I I'm not a recurrent UTIer like I know that some people get them all the time some people get them so easily from sex some from working out from sweating from all these different reasons they just get recurrent UTIs I don't I get them I reckon I've had one in my life so I was like I don't know what's happening I think I'm dying I was like it's so bad it's in the shower it's the most painful thing in the world and this this happened within anyone playing at home that gets

UTIs I wonder if this is a normal thing or if mine was just really bad within three hours oh yeah normal to like I was like what's happening to me agonizing anyway so Ben this is how I knew he's the one he gets on a scooter and he goes down to the local pharmacy and he's trying to explain they didn't speak English and he's trying to explain that there was blood coming out and they thought there's blood coming out of his penis and he was like no it's not my penis it's my girlfriend anyway he came back a long time later he's like babe that was really confusing but i think we got there he's like i think these are the tablets you need to take that's what i was like you're the one you did good you're my person all it took was a uti but it was so bad

do you get them i haven't had one in so long but yeah i've had them plenty of times in the past you just gotta drink your rule like it's your job well do you know what i did i just ate probably like i googled it i reckon i had 17 pineapples in 24 hours why are you looking at me confused i didn't know pineapples were a thing i knew cranberries i hope they are because i've just sold barley out of pineapples bought barley out of pineapples apparently yeah apparently if you guys get a uci pineapple fresh pineapple there you go you heard it here first never say that you don't learn things from listening to live well that was my holiday what about you you're heading off tomorrow so i'm heading to fiji tomorrow you guys know i am going on my non

honeymoon honeymoon Laura's going on the biggest family honeymoon you could imagine if you listen to last week's episode it's my sister's 40th so we decided to kind of combine things because we wanted to do something special but we also didn't want to like you know just spend all of the dollars so we thought we would do it together so we're going tomorrow five days and then I'm back but I am so looking forward to this trip and there was something I wanted to talk about because I guess for me I for most people when you go on your honeymoon and like I know ours is a bit of an interesting one because we're taking the kids and doing a bit of a combined trip but when you go on your honeymoon I think that for most people you would feel that you are at the peak of being

in lovedness like you're so in love because you've just gotten married and you know you have nothing else to distract you away nothing else to do nothing else to do nothing else to distract you away from your relationship because most people go on honeymoons straight after getting married and I think for me the thing that I've been looking forward to the most about having this time away is that it's really no phones we're going to kind of really spend time together and it's a time to reconnect as a couple because I have felt in the past couple of weeks maybe even the past couple of months as though Matt and I are going through a period where we haven't been able to prioritize our relationship because both I mean as you know I did Dancing with the Stars and work's

been really busy and he's really done the lion's share of the parenting and I think it doesn't matter what relationship you're in. It doesn't matter how much you love your partner, but every relationship goes through periods of feeling intensely connected and then feeling less connected and feeling less like you really, really know your partner. And at the moment, I think that Matt and I have been going through this period of being a little bit less connected and it's because we have not been each other's priority purely because of everything else being really important. And I know that like sometimes we come home and we get onto our phones and instead of talking to each other about how each other's day were or how each other are feeling

about things the conversation might be work and then kids and then bed and then have you done this when are you doing this like more the to-do list for the day too yeah it's like the it's the check in it's not it's not the feeling connected about the reasons why you love each other and so for me I am so looking forward to this trip away because I feel like it's a time for us to be able to really prioritize our relationship again and the way that we feel about each other and I don't want to say this I don't want anyone to listen to this and think that we're in a bad spot because when you know we're not we're not struggling in our relationship not at all the reason why I'm saying this is because I think it's so important to show people that literally every relationship goes

through it you know every relationship goes through periods where you feel like you know your partner so well and then you go through other periods where you're like hey hang on who's this guy in my house this is strange you know touch you me and if you don't really prioritize time to reconnect that's when things can start to erode and uh you know I feel grateful that we've got this week together where it's just all about us and about family and about really spending time together well it's funny because you said to me you're like you know last time we went to Fiji to this exact place was when Matt proposed so you're you're going back now to the exact place and you said it's interesting to go back to the exact place a few years later and be in a

completely different place because you were I mean your words you were obsessed with each other at that time you are now you and me now we're like there's there is nothing else in the world that will take your attention right now other than that person like they're all you think about they're all you want to be with that you just want to be on them in them around them touching them kissing them speaking to them just in their presence and that's where you were when you went to Fiji last time because that's when Matt proposed yeah and that was like five years four years ago now no five years ago now that was five years I was pregnant with Marley um Matt proposed it was one of the best days of my life and we're going back to that exact same spot so

you know there's something very sentimental about that in terms of what it means to us yeah but you're you know you almost said it in a little bit of a sad tone like you know we're just in a different place now because exactly what you just said we haven't had that connection lately but I don't think there's anyone out there that would hear you say that and not relate to that because you have two little kids who you keep alive and you run businesses and that's what relationships are they're highs and lows at the moment you're doing what you both need to do to literally get through life which is what every couple does and that time will come back to reconnect which is now it's why you're doing it because you are carving out a piece of time to

prioritize for the connection the other thing is you say that you know most people go on their honeymoon and they're crazy and happy and in love you guys also are that but you got married eight months ago most people go on their honeymoon two days after they get married so you're on the high you're all the families there you're in the love bubble they go on the honeymoon but you guys have gone back to some pretty hectic schedules back to normal life back to the kids so it's I think what you're feeling is normal yeah and I mean like I said I'm not talking about this because I feel like that there is a problem you know I'm not saying this because I'm like oh god I'm in fear for my relationship. If it's a problem, you wouldn't be talking about it. 100%. Daily Mail,

stay away from that type of headline. But the reason why I'm saying this is because it is normal. It is normal for relationships to go through periods of flux where you feel like you are your partner's soulmate. And then other times where you feel less connected, it doesn't mean that there is less love. It doesn't mean that there is less effort in terms of wanting to be in the relationship. It just means that nothing can be this consistent high. And I think that sometimes we can look in from social media and go god they just look like they have it all and I know that sometimes we as a family might present like that which is also why I'm so grateful to have the podcast to be able to talk about all the varying moments of life and reflect that

for every single person you have periods of highs and periods of lows and and periods of relationships that aren't even lows we're not in a low we're in a middle zone we're in like a purgatory I guess and it's in life we're just in the in the flow of life and I think sometimes you have to acknowledge that that's where you've gotten into like a little tiny bit of a rut and you've got to break out of that but if you don't recognize it if you don't go okay I've been spending way too much time on my phone I've been prioritizing all these other aspects of my life and my relationship hasn't taken main stage and if you don't do that then too much time passes where you don't make it a priority and that's when it turns into a low and I guess this was

just my little reminder to everyone that if you have been not giving your relationship the TLC that it requires that you know make it a priority and put it back at the top of the list yep all right well I feel like it's time to get into our favorite part of every episode which we haven't done as much lately but we do love it and that is accidentally unfiltered Brit hit me with yours okay it's pretty rank well speaking of UTIs this one is very uh hits home a little deep last week I was getting a UTI test and I was told to go into the bathroom to do the urine test. For some reason, instead of giving me one of those sample jar things

with the yellow lid, the doctor just gave me a cup and told me to cover it with some paper towel. That is not sanitised. Is this like a coffee mug from the kitchen? No, I'm guessing it's one of those little paper cups, but this is not sterile. Surely they can't use that to test for a UTI. They can't.

They're going to be like, ma'am, there's some serious bugs in that. anyhow he gave me he told me to cover it with a paper towel when i'm done and then carry it out and leave it on the desk near the pathology i don't know what i don't know what doctor she was in anyway when i was done i swung the door of the bathroom open ran straight out with this cup with no lid and ran straight into a male gp who was walking past p explosion everywhere all over him r.i.p me worst of all the bathroom was not a private bathroom it was a bathroom that opened up to the waiting room everybody saw me put my utip all over this doctor did she have a uti it was positive yeah do you know that's not even your fault if you're leaving a bathroom carrying

a cup of piss because the hospital or doctor's surgery didn't have a lid for it this that's on them you can't go back to this doctor's surgery no you can you gave him a little shower you cannot go back there this is not what cup was this okay no you christmas mug i'm sorry you can't go back there because what they're doing is not how you actually run a GP practice but you can go back there if you're just embarrassed that's fine okay I have I have one very quick one which I was like this is so fucking wild I can't not share it my husband came home from work this one day and he had an idea he thought that we could get a little bit kinky in the bedroom he is a tradie for context he shortened the blade of a reciprocal saw and put a dildo on the end of it what it was a

legitimate jackhammering that i got that day that's how people end up in hospitals that don't have lids for their fucking pee cups you get a perforation that is wild do not try this at home my dad's a builder i know what that i don't know i haven't built anything i'm very bad with diy that can't be good that cannot feel good no can we get a follow-up to that okay yeah when we speak about having a like laugh uncut ask uncut aftermaths this is what one we need do you still have a uterus is it still there but also i'm just thinking the danger what if the dildo slipped off and there's a sore like no no i don't think it's a sore they cut that end bit off it's just it's just the dildo was attached onto the the end bit like imagine putting a drill oh my god okay i

pictured a huge sore and then on the end of the sore was the dildo that sounds like a terrible idea it sounds like a horror story all right um this one as well the reason i want to read this one is because this is to do with harry styles but i feel like it's very time sensitive and like relatable because if anyone has spent their entire life the last week trying to get taylor swift tickets this is probably how you would feel i'm a mom of a toddler and it's fair to say i don't get out often and i really don't drink at all my friend bought me harry styles tickets for my birthdays it's the one thing i have wanted and waited for for so long all i have wanted pretty much my entire adult life is to see harry styles in concert we drank that's all you want as an

adult that's it we drank a few gins beforehand and had organized cute coordinated outfits between the two of us because we are two besties on the best night out of our lives i even drove six hours to get to hers as i moved to rural new south wales and had to sort out my toddler to be looked after oh my god right before the concert without any warning after a few gins i vomited on myself no warning no telling her i felt sick i didn't even realize i was that drunk my poor best friend spent the entire night with me in the med tent i couldn't even walk i was so wasted she ended up flying to sydney the next weekend after the gold coast show and she went with her best friend and her sister because because she missed the entire show they both missed the whole show this is the

worst thing i have heard how do you how does that happen that's a drink spiking surely surely as an adult a grown woman no it's on the greatest night of her life it's just a woman who hasn't drunk after having a kid we've all been there the very first drink you have after you've had a child is awful maybe she thought she needed to be a bit more mellow too in case she ran into harry like she needed to play it cool no one's running into harry there's like five million people in the stadium people run into people laura and you have to be prepared so maybe she thought she needed to calm the nerves with 17 gins with 28 gins so she never saw him and the friend went without her yeah anyway i would too good luck to everyone who got taylor's did you get taylor's with ticket

okay maybe maybe i haven't got them yet i spent a really long time online what do you mean i waited all okay I waited all day and then I put it on my story saying I waited all day for tickets and one of you lifers I hasn't come through yet could be a scam but one of you life has contacted me and said I've got four tickets if you want them so I'm waiting to find out if they're legit excuse me if you give Laura Byrne Taylor Swift tickets and you don't give them to me or the only option is you get two but I get one stop stop stop can I make this very clear it's a scam I am paying for them you're definitely being scammed but if you're not I want in I will spend the money on this phishing scam and if it turns out that there are Taylor Swift tickets at the

end of it I'll try and bring you what do you mean you try I'll see I don't know you don't have to ask yourself I'll speak to the boss Laura anyway guys let's get into the talk with Jessie Stephens joining us today is friend of the podcast or should I say competitor of the podcast we have Jessie Stephens who is the wonderful host of Mamma Mia Out Loud she is also the host of the podcast cancelled and she's a host on the project there is literally nothing that this woman can't do she is a author of the international bestseller heartsick and today we're going to talk about something very different we're not going to talk about all her accolades because as i said we are competition we're going to be talking about vaginismus jesse welcome to life on card i'm

so excited thank you for having me how does it feel to be fraternizing with the enemy over here oh look we love to try and beat you but must be nice because you'd beat us every time so jessie's talking about the podcast award yeah it's always a friendly bit of competition between us you know we try and take each other down then we all end up hugging by the end of the night because you can't dislike each other we love women fighting it out for the top and as long as it's women we are just high-fiving going yep life uncut you're the only ones allowed to beat us we accept i mean the podcast awards are coming up very soon and i feel like this is your year Yes, so I'm reckoning, I think we just go out on a high.

Michael, maybe we don't enter. No, no, no. This is our tactic this year. We're getting you on the podcast. Then you'll share Life Uncut with your followers and then we'll infiltrate. I agree with Britt. I think that you should bow out this year and just go. You would.

You're three from three or whatever. I think you've got to go, you know what, let's just quit while we're ahead. Step aside. Good idea, Britt. Look, we'll see how the interview goes and we'll decide by the end of it. No, it is your first time here on Life Uncut and you would know that we don't start any episode without an accidentally unfiltered, a very embarrassing story. Do you have one? I have so many, but I'm going to choose a more recent one. I feel as

though Laura might slightly relate to this and it's a little bit related to what we're talking about today. But when you are pregnant, your bladder is squashed. Yes, it's very small. It gets very small. And I've got this little lady who is so on top of my bladder from very early on of her positioning was prime like I'm gonna f with your pelvic floor right and so I got home one day and I was maybe in my second trimester and there's something about opening the front door that really just sets me you mean because you know you're close oh yeah your body's like I'm gonna release now I've been holding on to this for minutes a release it's so like unconscious and I was with my sister and my partner was inside the house and I opened the door and I went oh no

and it had begun and it was trickling down my legs in the doorway and I was going no no no no no no no no it's coming it's coming while my sister and my partner watched literally like a toddler in a park who's weeing themselves and it's like falling into their socks and I was like oh no and the one thing a physio will always tell you not to do is run because if you start to run the pelvic floor freaks and it just all starts going so I'm running through my house to find the toilet and I obviously didn't have time to close the door or anything and Luca is just standing at the doorway watching me horrified like how did it come to this that you are wetting yourself and I was like don't look at me look away it was like that bridesmaid scene don't look at me

don't look at me and I had to like take my dress off and my socks and put it in the wash and then I tried I was like we don't we probably don't need to talk about it and then later that night he was like the standard you walk past is the standard you accept and in this house we just need to discuss the wedding ourselves in the hallway because this isn't something but that is now a normal we just need to get better at getting to the toilet and I was like I'm horrified bro you're like you carry a baby for nine months and let me know Jesse Luca needs to get used to this i mean we've just successfully toilet trained lola and pissing into your own shoes becomes a staple when you were a mum whether you do it yourself or your children do it we dropped lola

off at daycare recently and her daycare teacher pulled us aside and she said look i think it could be a good idea to get lola some crocs or some plastic shoes because you guys haven't seemed to have noticed but she just keeps weeing into her shoes and we were like oh no we've noticed It's fine. So we're going to get you some Crocs after this episode. I need some Crocs so that I can rinse them after accidents. You can rinse them out. At least you're at home.

Imagine if you're in the main street. Imagine if you were the bridesmaid scene. Oh, I don't know how it hasn't happened yet that it's not been in public. It's always been in my home. But there is nothing more shameful as an adult to wear your pants and you're like, this is undignified. I am better than this. But I think this might only be the beginning.

Well, Jessie, the reason why we wanted to get you on is because you have spoken in the past about your experiences with vaginismus. Now, for people who don't know what this is, it is something that can affect up to one in three women. There's been some research studies on it, but it's way more prolific than what women may realize. And it's something that it's not really talked about because I'm sure there's so much shame and stigma attached to it. Can you give us a little bit of an explanation from your experience of what it is? So it can be experienced differently by different women but basically it's like an involuntary clenching of the muscles in the vagina so it's not just sex although that's often something that women notice but I've had it

around really painful pap smears any kind of gynecological exam and tampons is the other one and so when I was 14 or 15 and tried to use a tampon for the first time there was just no chance I don't think I used one until I was well into my 20s because my body didn't let me and it can be psychological it's partly physiological and for some people it's a mixture of the two which it sort of is for me but I feel it like there are rings I suppose it's a muscular pain but it stings it means that it literally won't let something go in and for ages I think you talk about the shame it's like I think every woman at some stage harbors a fear that there's something wrong with her vagina totally and that's what it is it's like oh there's just something wrong with me

for a while I was like am I just anatomically different is there a tumor I was so terrified but it is something that affects so many different women and a lot of women just cop it for their entire lives because they're like oh well sex is painful tampons are painful what do you do so how did you know that something was wrong and the reason I ask this is because I'm thinking of myself as a 14 year old like a quite a young girl my friends and I didn't overly talk about that kind of thing that yet like we didn't go to school and discuss how you put the tampon in does it hurt when you do it like those weren't things that you are so how do you differentiate between something being wrong or something just being maybe I'm young I'm tight and I put that in

inverted commas like I haven't had all these sexual experiences yet my vagina is tight this is normal so I think with the tampon thing I remember being at swimming carnivals and I'd have to get a note saying that because I loved swimming and I wanted to swim and I could never swim if I had my period and other people would use tampons and I would get so upset because I'm talking like I would try for hours and like read everything and you know have my leg up on the toilet seat and look at all the things and I just couldn't make it work and then I remember once I felt like maybe I'd gotten it in and I was like 17 or 18 and I jumped into the pool and I had not properly got it in and so the whole thing just expanded and I was in excruciating pain I just pictured it floating

out to the top like a little yeah boy like at least it didn't inflate with air it's not like you're floating up by your vulva to the surface of the pool it's like a floating life jacket getting me to the top but I was like this can't be right and then even with sex like people sort of said it hurt the first time but this was like I couldn't do it and it took months and months and months before I could and then even when I could I was like oh this doesn't feel right but it wasn't until well into my 20s where things actually got worse that I realized okay I need to speak to a professional about this. When you did originally speak to a professional and you did think okay it's time to go and speak to someone were they understanding at the start or was it more

psychological like what was the response because I wonder whether some people are met with well periods are supposed to be painful and sex is painful whether that can be quite a common reason as to why people don't seek out treatment for it yes so I was actually I'm wondering I actually don't know if I was specifically there to talk about that or if I was getting a pap smear because I'm very um health anxious so even though I hate pap smears I'm very much like no I will go and get it so that I feel like I've done that job and I think I might have mentioned to the female GP oh sorry like I was actually being apologetic like I don't know if this will work for you I'm trying my best I'm trying to stay calm and she asked me a few questions and she said in a

heartbeat she was like you have vaginismus and then we had a bit of a chat about it she told me about a pelvic floor physio and explained what it was and just said this is an involuntary thing that's happening and obviously asked me a few questions about my experiences and then when I did go to a pelvic floor physio she diagnosed me pretty quickly but I remember her saying there is nothing wrong with you there is nothing wrong with your vagina it is something that is treatable it is something that is fixable it's muscular and that was a massive relief for me and I felt like yeah it was like this burden had sort of been lifted so you're 20 do you say 22 years old the first time that I noticed it was definitely around the tampons but then I feel

like it didn't really bother me so much into my early 20s and then at about it would have been about 21, 22, it almost flared up and it got really, really bad. And it was really impacting my ability to have sex, like lots of things. And it was when I saw that GP and she was asking questions and she said to me, have you ever experienced any sexual trauma? And I sort of dismissed it a bit and then I went oh well actually when I was 20 21 I was walking down the street with my sister it was broad daylight like a Tuesday we'd been grocery shopping and this man was passing us and you know you make eye contact is almost like a protective like thing as women and you know looked him in the eye went to continue walking past and he

sidestepped really really suddenly and he grabbed me and he pushed me to the ground he put his hands in my shirt and was kind of on top of me on the floor oh my god in daylight he pushed me into like almost like a driveway like off the street so he was attacking me and my sister was there going I don't know what to do she was screaming and screaming and ended up calling the police but the thoughts that went through my head were this man is going to rape me and this man is going to kill me like I remember thinking that he had something I could feel something in his like I thought he had a knife or something and so I was pushing him off I was really surprised that that instinct as someone who's never pushed or hit anyone that instinct definitely came up and once

my sister got on the phone to the police he stood up and by that point he'd exposed himself and it was really confronting and he ran off at that stage because the attack wasn't penetrative because the attack stopped at that stage i assumed that the psychological impact maybe wasn't that great but when i spoke to a gp and then later a psychologist it was like my whole body clamp like just clamped so hard and it was like this protective thing I felt so unsafe and if you imagine that every time you walk down the street and you see someone pass you all the muscles in your body clench mine just did it now listening to your story when you just said that I I did happened it's actually I mean your story it's so frightening to think that something

like that could happen to a woman in broad daylight but I mean the statistics are there so many women have experienced sexual violence in different kinds of ways in different variations in their lives and to think that that experience can have a prolonged effect on you far beyond what you're necessarily conscious of or how that that presents itself to you did you when you actually sat down and started working through this with a psychologist or trying to get some treatment to not only get on top of having vaginismus, but also to be able to reclaim your own sex life and your own relationships. Were you able to really see those connections and how that had impacted you? Yes. So what's interesting with any sort of, I suppose, condition like this is that

it can be a lot of things coming together. And for me, it was like, that was the flare up that made the sex part a lot more intense. But the other element that I hadn't considered that I've spoken to a physio about as well is that when you have really bad period pain so i've had bad period pain since my first period you know how if they say if you're having a heart attack you get like a muscular pain in your arm or your neck when an organ is in pain it refers to the nearest muscles and this physio said the reason why we need to get on top of young girls and their period pain is because it flares up and tightens their pelvic floor really badly and then they end up with things like vaginismus because it's referring to all of that your pelvic floor thinks it's in pain

and so it's kind of getting really worked up and then it can't release or relax so that's already kind of like something that I had and then I have the psychological element and I needed to work through I think acknowledging that was really important and speaking through it and how much it had affected me and to this day I mean that was more than 10 years ago and it's literally every time I walk down the street and I see someone coming towards me it's kind of like a you know I clutch my partner's hand and stuff but giving me strategies and also the physical treatment that I've experienced has made an enormous difference I mean firstly we just want to say I'm so sorry that you even went through that it's terrific that people women have to go

through anything like this and to add that it was in front of your sister in broad daylight at a time that you think you were the safest is horrific I'm curious if we go back a little bit so obviously vaginismus is something you had it flared back up at this time of this attack at about 20 years old but in that interim you obviously had a partner and were having sex and things like that so did you find just on its own it started to get better or was it always difficult was it always there in the back of your mind it was always slightly uncomfortable but there were a few years there where it wasn't something that was front of mind but it got a lot worse to the point where I went okay this is some sort of this isn't normal and what happens is that

you notice it the first time and I remember this and it was a lot more painful than anything I'd experienced and then because of that you start to associate it with pain and it becomes a cyclical thing of like every time it actually gets worse because your body is bracing for pain and so it would start to get so bad that I was like I don't think I'm going to be able to have sex at all because I can't relax and I'm bracing for this. That's all you think about. Yeah, yeah. And I knew that it was kind of getting worse and worse at that stage.

How did you approach that conversation with your partners or your sexual partners at the time? And when you don't have the words for it or you don't know exactly what it is but you know something's wrong and I think almost like men in their 20s would be like, oh, well, I know it's meant to be painful but it's not that painful. It's because I'm so big, you know, that whole adage. adage how did you navigate that conversation and was it something that became I guess like a real

pinch point in your relationships basically I didn't and that says a lot about the quality of my relationships at the time and I think I was casually dating for a lot of that time and so in that way you're also with people who don't know your body very well who aren't there for your pleasure who aren't really that concerned about any of it and so I remember just not saying much and then I was in a relationship for a period there maybe talked about it and things like for example foreplay or going a bit more slowly did make a difference but I literally just clenched my teeth it was just like what are you gonna do like yeah it's uncomfortable maybe this is the experience of most people. This is something that I know is important. It wasn't until I was with my

current partner that I feel like I could be a lot more honest about it. I mean, to me, when I hear you say that, it's so relatable because I think so many people in their 20s, whether it's vaginismus or something else, we spoke about it recently with sex therapist Tara Oh. It's this idea that we are almost having performative sex because we know we need to in order to maintain the relationship we know it's it needs to be done but your own pleasure or almost like gritting and bearing it and getting through it becomes what sex can be about and as you get older and when you actually get into a stable and healthy relationship and then you look at that with retrospect and you think how did I fucking do that it's so unbelievably flawed that I did that to

little 20 year old me that I laid there and grit and bared it which we know no one should ever do that in their sexual experiences but if you don't have the words for what you are experiencing what else do you do not have sex yeah not do what everyone else is doing in relationships it's also when you don't know like you just said jesse you didn't know that others weren't experiencing the same thing like you thought this unfortunately you were like fuck sexy shit yeah yeah what's everyone talking about like this is horrible and i think you know it sounds shameful but i've been thinking about it a lot and reflecting on my 20s and i think we can use sex as a way to get what we want what did I want a cuddle totally I want to love you I wanted someone to love me and to

talk to me and to find me interesting and to spend a rainy Sunday night with if a way to get that was to withstand uncomfortable sex then I was like all right this is the exchange and that kind of made sense for me for a long time how are you able to take control of your own pleasure you're in a relationship now you have a beautiful husband you recently got married and you are pregnant with your first baby how did you get to a point where you were able to take control over your own pleasure in your relationships so I think working in an all-female workplace the things you learn like oh yeah someone will say things you can talk about someone will say over making a coffee in the kitchen on a Monday and you're like holy shit this is normal we discovered that I think

there were at least four of us in the editorial team which isn't even that big who had experienced this and I'd heard the word vaginismus but to be completely honest I knew it was going to be this massive thing to address and I was like can I be bothered with the whole process I don't have the time people are going to ask me to go on their podcast fucking hell and like you know when you hear the process you're just like okay if there was a pill I could take if there was like a really easy thing but then I'd heard sort of dilators and pelvic floor physio and the money like to go and see a pelvic floor physio 10 times you're looking at you know more than a thousand bucks I was like I can't afford that yeah and eventually I just went okay women at work are talking about

this they're saying it made a big difference I'm just gonna do it and so one of the women I worked with recommended a specific pelvic floor physio who gave me those dilators. I don't know if you've heard of them, but they're like, they're pretty scary looking like they're kind of rods and they start with a really little one and then they get bigger. People often use them to prepare for birthing as well. Yes, exactly right. And it sort of stretches the muscles. And so she taught me to do that. She taught me breathing. She taught me how to calm myself down. I'd also been seeing a psychologist who had been really helpful and so that was definitely the beginning of getting on top of that I've done a lot of sort of mindfulness meditation all that kind of stuff which I think

helps and having an understanding partner who gets your body and I mean like it's really how everyone should have sex which is which is that there should be foreplay and there should be like getting you into it rather than just expecting your body to respond like that so jesse were you this is very deep and personal but were you having orgasms in this time or could you not enjoy sex at all could you not get to that point i could but definitely not from penetrative that was always painful yeah i guess it's like with anything if you can relax those muscles and take your time like even if you imagine stretching or it's weird to think that it's a muscle like anything else and women who have given birth will know how complicated it is and

how those muscles work and turning on and off and all that kind of stuff but eventually it could feel like now I enjoy it and it feels good but for ages it was like okay it just doesn't feel bad so it was definitely a process of going from this is excruciating to oh this is good how did you have this conversation with Luca like with your current partner and you say like having someone who understands you who cares about you experiencing pleasure who it cares about you just not experiencing pain you know and wanting you to be comfortable what was it about your relationship that made you one feel comfortable to have those conversations in the first place but even to know what to ask for or what you needed if you hadn't received that before I think when you're in a

healthy relationship it's so it's so funny that you're like you don't even remember the conversation because the conversation was never not happening it was never not a big deal yeah yeah and you also had that moment where you're like oh this is what it's supposed to be like yeah and so he knew about it he knew about the indecent assault so almost he was really intuitive about it like he just got it he could tell as when you're having sex with someone if you really want to tell whether they're in pain or discomfort you can tell of course a lot of the time people don't care which is fucked like that's not right but I think that's what I was experiencing for years so he could tell if it was something that my body was responding to and going all that hurts

but I also think that it's the difference between having drunken sex with someone where there's an exchange going on where neither of you are being honest with each other and you actually falling in love with someone it's a totally it is not the same act like it's a totally different act and for that reason I think that he's been a lot of sort of not the cure but like he has helped me so much to then feel safe to then get out of that cycle and in saying that there are a lot of women listening who probably have amazing partners and are still experiencing this so I don't want to suggest that it's the partner but knowing that I felt safe that if it hurt I could just go let's try something else completely changed the cycle for me. Now that you're pregnant and I guess

knowing that you're going to have to potentially push a baby out of yourself soon you may come at the sunroof who knows but have you had any nervousness around this like has this been something that's played on your mind at all or do you yes yes okay she's nodding slowly talk me through this because I think giving birth most mothers to be for the very first time and not even for the first time every time it is really nerve-wracking I even know for myself I was like I feel okay and the most okay I could but I was so scared about how I was going to get this baby out of me and I guess when you've had this thing that you have had to work so hard to overcome and get to a place where you feel like you have control over your body how do you now feel

knowing that you're about to go into this experience or you are you going for a cesarean so it's a really good question because that was my first instinct is I said to my obstetrician this is going to need to be a c-section like there's no way this is not coming out this is not it just can't like we're talking going to you know get a pap smear which is a tiny little thing and I can barely do it like how and he has been amazing the midwife has been amazing look if I really wanted that I'm sure they would respect it but what I have learned over the last nine months about the female body and what is in my control and what isn't has been mind-blowing I've worked really really hard with a pelvic floor physio who specializes in exactly this so they did I think

starting from 20 something weeks they do like very specific stretching that some women will have experienced and then they do perineal massage as well which is more sort of the outer layer on top of that I've been doing calm birth breathing all that kind of visualization but a lot of the experts well the experts that I've read and the discussions I've had with my health professionals suggest that actually an epidural is great for people like me because it turns off that firing so there's a specific stage in the process where they're like get the epidural the muscles will relax and it will be better for you but childbirth has been like my number one phobia for my whole life because everything to do with that part of my body has been associated

with pain. So I'm like, how is this going to work? But I feel quite empowered, anxious, but like maybe I can do it. And who knows, baby might flip around. She might do something weird. And the next minute a C-section and that's totally fine. Do not care. But I feel prepared for this. I feel like it's been so curative to get kind of back in touch with that part of me and also have the physio do those stretches and to understand that part of my body like it's any other muscle I think is really kind of liberating I think you're also in such an amazing place in terms of one being surrounded by an incredible female community like you have all of the tools and all of the information and you've been armed with everything you could possibly be armed with I think of women

who go into childbirth who maybe have vaginismus who've never had a word for it who've never had the understanding of it and then that fear and the pain obviously it's you know for some people who haven't been able to work through and get to a place where they're able to be in control of it I can only imagine the suffering that they must feel or the anxiety that they must feel and I mean like I said you know people have anxiety around childbirth when there's no issue that's i'm not even never been pregnant and i have anxiety about i will never forget when my mom one day i was probably like eight years old and i was like mom how does a baby come out and i was like was it painful and she was like it's like shitting out a watermelon and that stuck with me and then

when i was in labor myself i was like oh god the watermelon it's coming it's coming but i also did an epidural and they're fucking great that's what needs needs to be done they're fucking great it's all of our reaction to pain like i've i've learned so much about pain as well because our reaction to anything hurting is to clench of course it is that's what our body does if you start clenching then the process of getting the baby out is obviously slowed so how do i reverse that what can i do and in fact the clenching makes it hurt more so it's actually been a really good way of confronting a lot of my kind of psychological baggage and all of that about it and i feel really safe i feel i really trust the people who are going to

be in the room and I've never felt I don't know like my body might actually know what to do which is especially when I felt quite broken for a lot of you know the last 10-15 years. Well it sounds like you're in very good hands for that and sounds like you've come a long way because you've done the work yourself you've done the psychological work you've done the physical work is this this case for everybody because I know there are different levels of it is vaginismus in quote unquote curable for everybody or are some people's what far more severe and they just can never recover some people it's a lot more severe so for example i know people that i've worked with and people that i've spoken with or interviewed for work who literally weren't able to have sex who

couldn't put a tampon in you know well into their 20s and that is going to take a lot longer and i think that it can be so for example if you're someone who has chronic yeast infections that's something that apparently can cause or perpetuate it because you are equating that area with pain and every time anything comes near it it stings and you know it gets worse and worse i've heard it related to polycystic ovary syndrome i've heard it related to a whole lot of health issues but the area of pelvic floor physio like that kind of whole specialty is booming thank god partly to do with childbirth the fact that women used to give birth and have an injury or have some kind of issue pretty much until the day they died that was 10 years ago like it's the fact it's

not included in medicare that after you give birth you wouldn't have 10 sessions with a pelvic floor physio is unbelievable. I mean, it shows you how misogynistically geared the healthcare system is. Yeah, because it's always just been women get on with it. Women can manage, they don't complain, they just get on with it. Yeah, it's meant to be painful. But you know, I mean, for example, and I hate when people talk about all of the scary births, especially when you're talking to someone who's pregnant. I have had a girlfriend who laughed her way through her birthing experience and she was like, everyone talked to me about how painful it was going to be. And she was like, for me, it was pain-free and it was truly like this rebirth experience. She did it completely

drug free. I think that there is such a varied experience that can come from childbirth and it is very much dependent on your mindset when you go into it as well. Obviously, so much of it is physiological. There are things that are completely outside your control, but I don't like the benchmark that like it's painful. You just have to have an epidural. I know I say that and I make jokes about it, but I do think it discredits people who walk into that experience and like absolutely love what it is and we don't hear enough about it the psychological framework of pain is also like if you are expecting it you'll be primed for it so a lot of the calm birthing stuff which i think also relates a lot to vaginismus is about there's this you know story

about a midwife who went to this village and watched this woman give birth and said can i give you pain relief and she was just going no no like she was in her own zone giving birth and at the end the midwife said to her oh did that hurt and she and this woman looked up at her and went oh was it meant to because she had never heard that this was meant to be a painful experience like obviously for a lot of people I've never done it and I'm sure it's going to be intense but if you are primed to expect that sex is something that is meant to hurt that tampons is something that you're meant to kind of just like push your way through and it's gonna really hurt the first few times and whatever that you know gynecologically our vagina is associated with pain

then yeah that's what we're going to experience and it takes a lot longer I think it often takes women into their late 20s 30s 40s 50s to associate the vagina with any kind of pleasure men don't have that for a long time it was like well this isn't a sexy thing to talk about this isn't something that makes me look especially actually in a society where sexual empowerment even like sexual pleasure you've got people selling vibrators on Instagram you've got all of this and you're going we are having a very different sexual experience right now yeah it makes you feel even more like something's wrong with you and everyone's like hey posing with their vibrator and you're like can't get one of them in me like I'm not enjoying that it's like the sexual wellness

space I think it's very specific to the type of sexual wellness that it's promoting at the moment well you're also not going to feel comfortable talking to just anyone you're starting to date because especially when you're young you're like oh everyone wants to have sex like you can't have a relationship without sex how do I just meet this guy and be like so heads up you can't fuck me like you can't put it in me you can't come close to me like love that for us that's a really hard conversation to have in this era where it's like and this is a really good thing and I love how father pendulum has swung to just like female desire but it's almost like you can feel pressure that you kind of are meant to want it all the time and be up for everything when you're having your

own sort of issues so I felt a lot of shame then and I think I wouldn't have felt comfortable speaking about it when I was in the midst of it and when I didn't have any wisdom or anything to help but when I look back I'm like oh imagine if I had read something or seen something or heard something where I went, holy crap, this is actually normal. And there are things you can do. And you know what, even if you like cost of living, I just can't even deal with how expensive everything is at the moment. But if you Google, like have a look at some of the things that you can do and you can start somewhere with some sort of treatment. And what I will say as well, actually, is that Laura, you were probably told this when you were pregnant. You know how they

tell you to do pelvic floor exercises? Yeah, I didn't do them. Well, that might be a very good thing because we're all told to do like clench and release, clench and release. For people who have a really tight pelvic floor, who have vaginismus, who are living with this, which again can be up to one in three, worst thing you can do because all you're doing is tightening something that's already too tight. So there is some general advice that it's like, I would suggest you go to a physio and just see if that's right for you. But otherwise, like there's a wealth of information online. There are lots of people who have talked about this. I think that when you realize that it's treatable, you're like, oh, I don't have to live for a decade just thinking

sex is excruciating. Jessie, thank you so much for sharing. And honestly, I mean, it's a conversation that we have been talking about for quite a while and we were trying to think of who the right person is to speak to and whose experience but also who's kind of done the journey and we couldn't find anyone so was you yeah we'll get that chick from mama mia on no we like i mean you speak so beautifully about it but it's so amazing as well to hear someone talk about what it's like when you're actually in a healthy relationship and how sex means different things at different points and we just can't wait to see you be an amazing mom and everything else and congratulations on your new book. You're absolutely killing it. Oh, thank you. Thank you. The child

birth thing will be very interesting. Thanks for having me guys. I think, you know, hopefully these conversations are really helpful and I'm in your Facebook group. So I hope that it gets people talking and I'm sure there are so many people listening who are like, yes, this is me. All right. It is time for our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low light of each and every week coming in first is Brittany Huckley my I mean my sweets barley obviously as a whole but if I had to pick one thing oh you know what something funny did happen Ben and I were trying to take a selfie of each other at this really nice backdrop and um you know you're obviously holding your arm out and this girl walks up and she goes do you want me to just take a photo of

you and I was like oh that'd be great thank you so much she's like no worries I get it and I was like thanks she takes the photo she looks at it and she goes oh that's a great one for the shrine and walked off mic drop i was like fuck yes i was like yes queen she's like no it's actually a really good one for the shrine she laughed the shrine's looking good it does need a few more photos though but i love that i love that she came in hot confidence she took the photo she owned it she was like that's for the shrine and she exited the building without even like this is my name or anything no nothing that's main character energy right there it was main character i loved it my suck is um i'm dropping ben to the airport tonight i thought you were

gonna be thinking about that and i was like clearly it's that your boyfriend's no i'm dropping ben to the airport tonight and i will probably not actually we don't have that long laura goes can i hang around your house um and do some editing for the podcast today and i was like no i'm having sex for the rest of the day you cannot stay in my house ben is leaving tonight it's just to give you guys context on like time and day that we're recording this it's now one o'clock it's um saturday and ben is leaving at five this afternoon and i i need to get this edit i need to get this episode edited so i'm not editing it on my fucking honeymoon and i was like okay can i just stay for like an hour and print was like absolutely not go home but i can't get out of my house it's got

children it's hard this is a rock and a hard place what if i go to the study it's like can you put your headphones in in the study and you're quiet so i'm contemplating sitting in brit's spare bedroom while she bones her boyfriend and to be fair this just really feels quite similar to the old days when we used to record out of your bedrooms how do you feel knowing that you will be in that room editing and I'll be in another room having sex I'm gonna sit outside on the patio and edit anyway all right my suck for the week my suck for the week I've had a pretty great week um but my suck for the week is actually this is a reoccurring suck I don't know if you guys remember but last winter it was the same suck me mold problem is back and it's back with the

vengeance is it yeah our house gets so moldy in winter time and I had this pile of clothes which was just piled in the corner you know how some people have like a floor drone generally that's what a pile of clothes or a chair i just hit piles yeah well it's been a pile that's been growing anyway it's been sitting there for probably about two weeks this pile of clothes and we keep just adding to it with the intention of putting it all away most of it's clean it's just been chucked there in the corner on the floor so it's not clean now yeah i moved it away from the wall today with the intention of packing stuff to go away to fiji and there is just black mold growing behind clothes on the floor do you have to throw those out then you didn't I think you probably do it's a bikini

top all over again I'm kidding I still haven't thrown that away and I still think I might be able to revive it anyway that's okay the black mold in my house is enough to make me think that we might need to move houses so that's that's on the cards to move anyway you've been talking about it for a little while well that's on the cards now because um yeah it's just this reoccurring issue and I know like for anyone for anyone who's dealt with mold in their house it's just such a it's so dank it smells so bad it's also such a health issue if you've got asthma which pretty much everyone in our household does um so that is a suck in itself the sweet for the week is exactly what we've been talking about all episode um and that is I'm going to Fiji tomorrow and I know that

it hasn't happened yet which will mean it will be my sweet next week but this is a holiday I've been looking forward to since my wedding and I'm so so excited about just going back to where Matt and I we got engaged and where we had some really beautiful memories at this place and I think You need to take a photo in the same spot. You know how people like recreate, they're like five years on and then you've got to do that, like recreate it. We will be so lame for Instagram, but yeah, we will do it. And, you know, being able to just have time to prioritise the two of us

is something, and the children because they're going to be there, but there's kids club, really is something I'm so looking forward to. So, yeah, it's going to be a beautiful week. Yeah, I can't wait to hear all about it. Are you doing the, you know, where you put your phone in the bowl and you're not allowed to be on phones and stuff? Are you having like complete proper downtime? every day during the day is just going to be like no phones just us while the kids are at kids club

that's the plan so we'll see how we stick to it anyway but that's it from us guys and we'll be back on thursday with ask uncut that episode is the episode with brit and ben talking about relationships and ben answering some ask uncut questions bless his soul yeah give the guy a break because he's not experienced in answering questions but he's a great footballer and a great person but he's not a he's not a therapist he's not a podcaster but he did a really good job That sounded really patronising. No, but he's so cute. I love him.

I love him. We love him. I want to eat him up, which you will do as soon as we finish this recording. And that is it from us, guys. If you love the episode, go jump on. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. You know, share it with a friend. If you have a friend who has experienced vaginismus or if this is an episode that you think it

might help someone, please share it around. And you guys know the drill. Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friends and share the love because we love love. We'll be right back.