Life Uncut - Laughing Through Grief with Toni Lodge

Episode Date: January 30, 2025

Toni Lodge is a comedian, the author of ‘I don’t need therapy’ (and other lies I’ve told) and half of the Toni and Ryan podcast!  The perfect way to sum up today’s episode is ‘dark humour’. Toni is truly one of the funniest people we’ve ever met and she shares two of the most ‘vulnerable’ accidentally unfiltered stories we’ve ever heard.We speak about Toni’s rise to being one of the most popular podcasters in the country after being told that she wasn’t quite the right fit for the microphone when she was in radio. We speak about the different ways that people reach success in media these days and not having to check the same boxes that people used to. We take a bit of a behind the scenes tour into how podcasting actually works, how it’s monetised, who owns what etc. We speak about: The dynamics of relationships when you work with one of your closest friends Choosing to be child free and finding peace with that decision Grief can look different to what we expect it to Feeling like it was really hard to casually speak about her mum after she passed away Toni wants people to stop saying “sorry” when someone passes away Achieving things after losing a parent and wanting to be able to tell them Handling grief and sad things in general with humour creates a split crowd Writing down your non negotiables - 5 things that you will not leave this life without achieving You can find more from Toni on her Instagram  and her podcast  You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I'm Laura. And today's guest is one that I am so excited about. Now, she may or may not need an intro, but if you happen to have come to one of our Life Uncut live show tours last year, Tony was one of our guests at the Perth show and she didn't disappoint she's an author she's a writer and she's one half of the astronomical podcast the Tony and Ryan podcast which is huge in Australia but even bigger overseas she's one of the funniest people I have met no pressure

welcome to the podcast Tony Lodge oh my god I also love the use of the term astronomical you just do not hear that enough I throw that term around like there's no tomorrow because it's like it really hits home when someone says astronomical you're like wow they must be really good I think what you meant to say about that Brit is that Brit never uses it and she only reserves it for people like you Tony that's what yeah I was gonna say I mean it really cuts deep but you're just like yeah oh my god that coffee was astronomical I'm like okay that's how I use it Tony I reckon you told the funniest accidentally unfiltered that we've potentially ever had and so I mean there's a bit of a setup to this so last year we did the live shows in October we released some of the interviews

from the live shows if you guys were across it last year but then we didn't release Tony's because we always intended to have you on the actual podcast and interview you properly and then I played hard to get for too long and it's been a whole fucking year since we've been able to nail this down she's been like ghosting breadcrumbing then zombieing then she comes back she reels me in and thinks we're in a relationship again and then she goes to me again yeah I just love the attention to be quite honest i've never had two ladies quite as beautiful as you guys in my dm so i'm like you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna like hold on to this for as long as i can i want to know you said you've got a new actually unfiltered story but i'll take whatever embarrassing story

you've got well i feel like you've pumped the tires up of the other one but basically for yeah anyone in perth you would know that there's this uh ride at the adventure world like theme park but basically it's like this big pirate ship and it like is on a pendulum and it kind of like swings left to right and you kind of like swing up into the air and then back down and then it kind of goes the other way and I actually I was just saying to you guys like I get videos from people from around the world whenever they're at like a fair because this ride is just like exists everywhere so you would know it but basically I'm like sitting on this this ride and it kind of like swings up and I'm like oh oh that makes my tummy feel a little bit funny

and then it swung back the other way and I was like oh I don't know what that was and then I realized that like I didn't know what it was because I maybe wasn't supposed to know yet and I'm like swinging on this run I'm like oh oh my god it like swings back again it really like teases you this ride you really get your money's worth and anyway so i'm pretty sure i did my first come on a theme park ride sorry and who else can say that i did my first come is that because you haven't done yours yet not on a theme park ride put it that way first come on the pirate ship on the pirate ship thing and i was just like i was stunned because i didn't really know what it was I didn't know why it felt the way that it felt and you know like how do you

like it was astronomical that's all I can say the real question here Tony is how many times did you go on it after that you were like well that was fun she signed up to the VIP membership frequent flyer well it's like seasonal so Adventure World in Perth is only open from like October to March like it's only open during the hotter months so when it's cold i mean i'm just imagining your mom's like god tony spent all day on that fucking pirate ship ride yeah she just travels the world seasonal to like theme parks seasonal i go north to south you did say you actually had a more recent embarrassing moment too do you want to share that while you're here on the podcast that i make with with ryan we introduced this

idea that on february 29th so on that like leap day we introduced an episode where we could say something like own up to something but then we couldn't talk about it until the next leap day kind of like a purge almost and I introduced it because we'd only just started renting this studio space that we're in now and so it was really new and we hadn't really like gotten a lot of furniture yet and didn't really like know the quirks of the building and uh one morning it was early and I was like there's a delivery coming today I'll be the one to like go and accept it like I'll go and open the roller door it's like a factory unit kind of thing I was like I'll go and open the roller door and I'll figure it out and that's fine I'll let the guy in right I was

like great I'll stay late for a different delivery we're like awesome like great compromise I rock up here early and it was like early in the year so I was still on the green juices like I hadn't given up on my resolutions yet and I walk up to the roller door and I like my remote fob thing's not working and then I'm like okay I will go over to the door and my key in action like my physical key in the door isn't working either like the lock had seized up and I'm like oh my god like this guy should be here any minute like and I'm not going to be able to accept the staff but then I realized that the bigger problem is that I've had three quarters of a green juice I can't get into the building and I am about to violently shit myself and so I'm sitting in my car and I'm like

what do I do like do I go to a Macca's around the corner and use the bathroom then I'm like no because this delivery is about to come and like then what's getting like he's not going to be able to get in he's going to leave then I'm just going to have to come back another day and I'm like oh my god I'm panicking the poo is like about to escape my body and I realized what I had to do was park my car kind of like across the front of our driveway and fling the door open to kind of like try and cover me from the street. And I shat in the garden at the front of our new building. I cannot believe. And then I called my boyfriend Torps and I was like, you've got to come and help me and he was like well I'm on my way to work so I'll swing past your office and he goes

all I've got in the car all I've got in the car is like poo bags from like our dog and I was like okay well all I've got is like plastic wrap from like a package that I'd picked up from the post office so I scoop up as much as I can into this like plastic like postal bag and Torbs rocks up and he grabs the rest of it and we managed to we ended up being able to get into the building so we kind of like scrubbed it away and like managed to clean up the crime scene before anybody saw us and then Torbs was like all right I will take the rubbish and he's like I'll drop it into a random bin at like a Macca's on the way to work and I was like oh my god you're such a lifesaver and then when I was telling Ryan this story on the pod he goes Tony that has your

address on it because I'd picked up the parcel. And he goes, you might open up the letterbox and someone's mailed your shit back to you. Way to think you'd get away with a crime scene, but it's got your full name, address, postcode, page and number. It's like Tony Lodge, like my tax file number, like, you know, like everything is on there. The part of this takeaway that I can't get over though

is that your partner is such a fucking good guy that he will fish around in the garden after your poo and take it with him. He will take it away. I know. This is unfathomable is what it is. Astronomical. It's astronomical.

That's an astronomical shit. It really is. Astronomical. Tony, I loved interviewing you at the Perth show and one of the parts of your story that I find so fascinating because we are in the world of it now is that you came from a very traditional media background. Like you were working in radio, but you're working kind of behind the scenes, not on air. Can you talk us through a little bit about what that

experience was like for you and why you left radio in a fiery dumpster to go and do podcasting and have your own show? Well, yes, I was just an audio producer. And I think for when I first started in radio, I was literally just making commercials. Like I wasn't even on a show. I wasn't even like allowed to be with the famous people or anything like I was like tucked away in the back corner and I was like started doing crosses in the morning because I was like oh you know I think I could be really good at this and I was kind of told like in no uncertain terms like you don't really look the part you don't really have the qualifications for this and it's just not going to happen and I think like I really am easy to accept a no like if someone says no I

don't really accept that as a negotiation I'm like oh that's it like I kind of just accepted that was all so I was like you know what I'm really happy just being an audio producer and that's fine and then like after moving around so I was living in Perth and then I moved to regional radio in WA and then moved to Sydney for metro radio and I was kind of like okay like I'm just an audio producer and like I'm actually obviously pretty good at this because I keep getting these new jobs. And then when I moved to Melbourne, I realized like I was audio producer on like a breakfast radio show. And I was like, God, I'm like 24 at the time. And I was like, and have I kind of peaked? Like, is this it? Like I'm already doing the dream job. Like there's probably not

really much more that I can do. And then I was, I just really enjoyed comedy. I really enjoyed being part of the show I loved that Jason PJ was the show that I was on I loved that they kind of let me have my moments with them and I was like god like there's just this thrill about getting to be on air and getting to go and do things and so I started going and doing their stunts which is I think the way like a lot of people kind of start getting like to dip their toes in a little bit and I was like oh I remember going into the boss and being like oh you know like I think I'm offering a lot to the show and you know it's quite hard doing my my full-time job and doing that and like the the guys really like it like is there any way that I could get a pay rise that I can

kind of manage doing both things or maybe take on a bit of more of an on-air role and they were like no like if you like doing the on-air stuff you do that for free because there's a million people that would kill to do your job and they would do it for free and blah blah and I was kind of like oh like that's just it then and then Ryan started working at the radio station and he was like oh have you ever thought about being on air and I was like I tried and they said that I couldn't like because I just accepted that and I was like that's my lot in life and that's fine and then when we started he was like why don't we make you up a demo to try and get you on the air and like this whole podcast started as me trying to get make like a demo to be on the radio yeah

we started making it and then we like recording the video and then we're like you know what like the video is pretty good the audio is pretty good should we try posting that on on tiktok or whatever and we did and like oh my god i'm so glad that we did because yeah i was like able to quit my job and now this is my full-time job and i get to make this podcast and i guess the biggest thing was that like had i just accepted that no and didn't have someone in my corner like ryan that was like no like you don't have to accept that like you can keep fucking going and you can keep trying like I just I wouldn't be here yeah and like it kind of makes me emotional that I'm like wow I was just so happy to accept that and like yeah had I not had a champion like that I would

still be there and I would just be like this is just it you know it's funny because I mean I was getting emotional then for you because it's this idea of you're the captain of your own ship and we all know it but sometimes it's not as easy to put that into practice and so you know that now but you would have just kept cruising through life. I'm so interested in coming from the backside of radio, the back end of radio and like all the behind the scenes as well. And then I think that there's a real, and I have to be careful with it because obviously we work in radio now, but there is a real disparity

between like on-air talent and how it works behind the scenes as well. What was your experience of being a female working in radio and how do you kind of see the opportunities that were presented for on-air talents to work? I mean first of all like in that most recent job that I had there was a guy doing the exact same job as me and who was getting paid more and we had like pretty similar experience and that like there was just no interest in like meeting that pay disparity or even like the emotional responsibility that like I feel like I took on more than they did like I felt as if the work

kind of came to me and we were kind of splitting it up rather than us both kind of taking responsibility for our days and that was really hard because you like I was just felt like I was carrying the mental load a lot I felt like I was really caring about the outcomes of things and didn't really necessarily feel like other people were meeting me in the middle of like with that stuff I guess working behind the scenes like that there really isn't many females in especially in audio production I think it's changing a bit now but the way that it all works is like I mean regional radio is not even really a thing now so in terms of people getting up in radio like that quote unquote traditional way of like going to regional radio and things like that i think that now it

will most naturally go to people who like already have their foot in the door some way you know like and that's not me like trying to hang shit on like you guys obviously you like had a huge profile and then you got into radio but like you work fucking hard i think it's more the people that go like oh we'll just put them on because they're having a bit of a moment and it flops and it goes nowhere and then you go oh but there's all these people that are trying really hard that are willing to do the work and do that job and like and you guys can agree and attest to this as well like it's actually a hard job to do uh I think that people were like oh you're just talking to a microphone you have fun with your best friend how hard could it be you know I wanted to be on the

radio so bad and they wouldn't let me and so instead of I guess accepting that it's like well we created this job for ourselves you know I think there's some statistic of like only point point three of podcasts in the world make any money yeah which is just insane so you kind of do have to carve your own path and think about like multiple income streams like it's not as straightforward as you think it is just like oh I make this and then I get paid like it's just not like that I also find it really fascinating because I mean to lift the curtain a little bit on the sort of radio podcasting world if you're working in radio usually if you start a podcast it has to be housed by the radio network that owns podcasts so for example we work for ARN

they have a podcast network called iHeart even though we independently own Life Uncut as you guys all know it's our podcast we sell our ad space to ARN so it kind of works in like a mutual arrangement there but when you are employed by radio and then you start your own podcast were you independent or did you have to be underneath your network? And was there a conflict of interest there when things started to go really well for you in the world of podcasting, when you've been told by your bosses, sorry, you're not on air talent. So we were both lucky enough that having been in the world a little bit and both having had podcasts before, we did have a little bit of knowledge. Cause I mean, you hear these horror stories about people who have these amazing

podcast that then all of a sudden they don't own them and they can't move them somewhere else or they can't continue making it and stuff which is so scary and we had both seen that happen so we were both a bit wise up to that but like you said we were working for ARN so our podcast for the first year was with iHeartRadio and we made sure that we owned everything we made sure that it was ours and a podcast I'd had before had a feed and so we said we don't need a new feed because we're just going to archive those old episodes and start like posting Tony what is now Tony and Ryan onto there and so I owned that like Tony Lodge owned that which is probably ended up being quite lucky and worked out for us because yet some people just like don't get to keep making

their stuff when they want to leave that was only a year and then after that we ended up getting an offer to become exclusive with Spotify which was just the wildest thing that could have even ever happened like that's like Spotify knows my name like what that is so insane we moved on and we joined them and now we are independent our ads get sold by Acast the same as you guys like it's completely it's our arrangement and whatever but we own everything and it's all ours and like no one gets to say what we do or say or have on or yeah so it's like pretty amazing and you've got a big enough audience this is the thing that as another fellow podcaster that like I look at you guys and I admire so much you have a huge audience in America and overseas and it's really hard in

this industry to to do that and to break into another country for those people that might not know what's it like like I saw you guys go over there to America recently and do a tour is that mind-blowing to you that you can go to such a foreign country and people recognize you turn up to see you know your name it's the wildest thing like it's just so like even you just saying that then has given me goosebumps like just the the thought of that is is just fucked it's yeah like it's just it's just so strange like the thought that people are willing to turn up and and i think there's just so much content now like people have so many options like when i was growing up there was channel 7 channel 9 and channel 10 and like that was it but now you know there's so

many ways that people can get content so I think the thought that all these people around the world are like committing half an hour of their precious time to us every day I don't ever want to forget what that means when I think about how crucial like a half an hour of my time is at night time before bed I go if I'm putting on a tv show I want it to be really good and Ryan's a new dad so he's kind of going through that at the moment where he's like I'm not getting a lot of sleep so whatever time I give myself to enjoy something it has to be really really good so he listens to himself yeah he's like it's gonna be quality I'm just gonna listen to our he's like I've been listening to Laugh Uncut before but also like you work with one of your closest friends like

what is your relationship with Ryan like now after spending so many years and and I ask this because there is this kind of like interesting thing that happens when you come to podcasting I'm still in the room remember yeah but you make you make content about your own personal life your job is to talk about your personal life and the lines can sometimes get really blurred like what's your relationship like now so when we first started doing this we didn't really know each other that well at all and so it was kind of like learning about each other learning the limit like learning what is cool and what's not and knowing as well oh I don't know anything about your life outside of what we kind of knew from working together briefly so we were getting to know each

other as co-hosts as people and friends but then also all of a sudden you throw in running a business together and we had to shift from these modes of like well we're recording right now so we're having band time it's all fun and then we go okay and now we have to like figure out what accounting is and like how to pay tax and that's like the business owner part and then we're also like okay well after all that it's five o'clock should we go and have dinner and like try and get to know each other a little bit more I guess like it's a bit like a long distance relationship where you kind of like everything is sped up and everything is just like 10x because you're like we need to figure out if this is something that we can do we want to do is possible do I hate you

and I just haven't realized yet we haven't had enough time together yeah it's like going on a first date right you realize you've got chemistry and banter there but you don't know if you just want to fuck or not it's the same kind of thing like you don't know if it's a long-term relationship or if it's that one night stand so you fucked and then you still here so we fucked and we still figured out but it's kind of like we also are just really different people we communicate really differently and that has been I think a bit of a superpower for us because I had someone that like I was saying earlier was like would champion me and would be like no Tony like don't fucking take no for an answer like you can do this and so having that is so powerful but also as someone

who's not naturally like that when I need to not be pushed I'm like you need to fuck off like this isn't a time where I need to be fucked up and gassed up I need you to shut up and like give me a minute so it was also like learning how to push each other and when to push and when to like hang back and give space yeah exactly like a relationship we just kind of fell into this and I mean it's worked out well and we have like persevered but had he been someone I just met like we probably wouldn't still be friends like you know we probably wouldn't have like stayed in touch and you know like which is so strange because now we're like part of each other's lives in this weird way he's got a baby that I see all the time like I'm friends with his wife he's

friends with my boyfriend you know I just can't imagine he came to the auction when I bought my house like you know he's just like the most supportive person and I love him to death but it's just crazy that under any normal circumstances like would we still be mates like maybe not so interesting isn't it and it's also interesting because like you can have two people that can be so different but then the thing that you share that's really unique and special is the chemistry like the chemistry that you can have in that dance that you can do when you're on air together is something that is really hard to find with just anyone. Like that's the thing that makes the product so incredible.

People also forget too that it is a relationship. It is a relationship and people have different communication styles like Laura and I do, like you guys said, and like different things that people need like words of affirmation or time or whatever. Physical touch. Yeah, it's why we're always touching. She feels me out.

But it is 100% another relationship that you need to manage, just not, well, maybe yours is, but it's just not sexual. you and torbs your partner have decided well are for now child free by choice which is you know it is becoming more popular but it is still against the grain it's still against societal norms is that something you always knew you wanted to be childless by choice is it something you've discovered along the way and is it something that has changed slightly since ryan has become a dad I think the childless thing like when as I was growing up I just always assumed I would have kids because that's just like so rather than it being a choice I would I just assumed

that I would because you grow up and you have babies and it's what you do that classic thing of like oh by the time I'm 22 I'll be married I'll have three kids and then you're 22 and you're like doing acid in a warehouse and you're like oh my god I'm like not doing what I thought I was gonna you're getting off on a pirate ship that's about it yes yeah no that was much younger but I think it hit a point where I was just a bit like oh maybe I won't do that and yeah Torbs and I like we just moved in together literally that day and we're laying in this beautiful new house it wasn't actually it was like some shit share house and we're laying there together and I was just like oh I don't know if I'm ever gonna want kids wow the worst timing probably because we just moved

in together and I was like should this be of something that we talked about but I think I like realized and I just said it out loud I think because us living together was like the beginning of our life and I'm like oh my god does this mean that you know is this the house we're gonna have kids in and then I was like oh nah actually and Torb said like oh well I would rather have you than a baby so that's fine with me and we check in like once a year I guess it normally ends up being around like if somebody in our life has a baby or whatever I go oh like because we both love kids and we've got nephews that we adore and Ryan's baby is in our life now and I just think about all the great things about enjoying kids and like love playing and hanging out and having

them in my life but I just think all the other stuff that we get to enjoy and the freedom that we have I guess that that's just our preference for now but I think everybody just assumes that if you don't want kids like you just hate them and it's it's really not that at all like it's I probably now as I'm growing up and realizing that me not having children is like sacrificing the great parts about being a mom and like being a parent but knowing that there's parts of it that I wouldn't be very good at and that I wouldn't want to subject a child to like I'm like that's not your, like, do you get what I mean? Like it's hard to articulate. No, I think you're articulating it perfectly. And I also think the thing that's really remarkable is when you find a partner

that's on the same page and that you've made that decision together and you're doing this together. You know, we talk about it in relationships all the time that like where the pinch and the pull happens is when one partner wants something that the other doesn't. But I think a lot of people have children and it is the best thing that they ever do. And a lot of people have children because it's the thing that they expected that they should do. And it hasn't really been a conscious decision it's just been the next thing to do in life and I don't know whether that's the right way to go about it because it's definitely something you can't give back once you've made that decision and it's happened yeah it's so funny that people go are you sure you don't want kids

like you can't take that back and I go I can take that decision back much easier than I can take back having a child and wishing that I didn't yeah yeah it's so true I have a question for you because it's something that I think about all the time because I'm the same as you where I shouldn't say the same as you but I often think I don't know if it's for me and it's the path I want to go down but I'm getting to crunch time you know I'll be 38 this year when I'm getting married but my partner and I talk about it all the time do you ever mourn the decision to not have kids and what I mean by that is you so confidently then say like it's not for me and sometimes I'll say that to myself I'll be like okay I think it's not going to be for me but then I get really sad

thinking about the fact that it's not for me and I try and picture my future and I'm like it makes me upset to think that the child's not going to be my future even if I've made the decision it's really complex emotions because you can feel comfortable in what your decision is but then I guess it's the unknown of how you're going to feel in 10 15 20 years so do you ever sort of sit in that feeling of being like I know it's not for me now but fuck that makes me sad in a way probably less about it making me sad because you're right it's it's really complex but I think where I've landed with it is like what I was saying like I probably now consider it I'm sacrificing the great parts about potentially like being a mom and having a baby and like

experiencing that love and joy and all of those things like I'm sacrificing that for you know the fact that maybe I wouldn't be that good at it or maybe it wouldn't really be for me or maybe I do prefer my freedom like I think yeah what it comes down to is that like I don't hate kids it's not like I don't want them I'm just saying like you know what I think that it's not the right choice for for me or for us and whether that makes it better I don't really know but there are I think especially like around the holidays and whatever I go oh having kids would be so special because you think about how much like kids love Christmas and kids love stuff and you just think about spoiling them and whatever and then I go yeah but so what once a year I am cool

with it but yes you know like and I think that's almost like how I have realized that like the times I feel sad about it are like minuscule compared to the times that I feel really comfortable with the decision and so I feel like what you're saying like that to me sounds like you know exactly what you need and want in your life because if it gives you that like guttural feeling after deciding like I feel like you know exactly what you need yeah for you yeah I mean hearing you guys unpack that when you asked the question Brit I was like I feel like the response would be very different I feel like most people who have made that decision are at peace with the decision and when they've gotten to that place it's like well it's not a thing that creates

distress or upset because it's like why would it it's what I want which is worse because I don't have peace yeah but that's what that's what I mean like even the way that you ask that question then you're like don't you just feel so fucking devastated about I'm like no babe I don't like and yeah that's like it's just as simple as that and it's but I mean it's not fucking simple why I say that it's so complex it's like the craziest thought that I'm like hang on if I'm put on this earth to like repopulate it I'm like not doing my one thing that I don't really know what that means yeah no I think you do and I think you've explained it perfectly and I do think that there is also a lot of like when someone has made the choice you've got to explain why which is

crazy you know and I know we ask the questions but it's because the conversation is not had as frequently as the choice to have children no one's like why do you want to have children talk to me about how you came to the decision to have kids just expect nobody ever asked that but the alternate seems like something that needs to be queried and i think that there are so many women now who are making this decision and the reason why we talk about a lot on this podcast is because it gives voice to alternate ways of living life and it doesn't mean that one is better or if everything is just it's just different you've spoken a bit i mean the book that you wrote I don't need therapy and other lies I've told myself. There's so much in this that you unpack,

but I would love to know. And one thing we're going to talk about, which we spoke about the live show is your mum and when your mum passed away, but then writing about it and putting that out into the world and having everybody else tell you their experiences of grief as well. What has it been like to share so personally the massive grief and coming to terms with what that grief meant about losing your mom so there's a lot of people that message me and go like oh thank you so much for for sharing that or I've just read your book thank you for sharing the way that you did about your mom because I feel so much less alone now I don't think that people realize what that gives me too because I'm like I've just put myself out there in this crazy way and I'm talking

about these feelings that people either haven't experienced yet or may never experience depending on like their relationship with people in their lives but I don't think people realize that reflecting back to me and saying oh my god it made me feel so much less alone I'm like thank god that I'm not the only person feeling this in a good and a bad way because obviously I'm heartbroken when I can relate to people in that way but I think people think like oh well you wrote it down so you must feel really confident or you must know everything I'm like I really don't and having the freedom to write down all my feelings was amazing and really cathartic and I mean it doesn't have to be in a book that goes on to be published and become a

bestseller and an award-winning book but like I think it like really showed to me like the importance of journaling for yourself without judgment for what you've written and without thinking that somebody else is going to read it writing for yourself and that's kind of what that book is it's like amazing that there's this version of my mum that lives in the world yeah I think that is one of the coolest parts that she's not here but people get to meet her because I've shown them her yeah I found one one thing you spoke about really interesting that after your mum passed away and you were only 19 so you were so young but that you felt like you couldn't talk about her after can you elaborate a little bit on that I found that I was at this age where you know

people were still living at home and things like that and they would I would be talking to someone they'd be like oh hang on sorry my mum's just calling me or oh I was talking to mum the other day about xyz or oh hang on like I've got to go like my mum's picking me up in 15 minutes whatever and I was like remember just feeling this like hot rage and jealousy that people could just like so easily drop their mom into a conversation. And aside from the fact that she wasn't with me anymore, the casual nature of talking about her and being able to just like bring her up or mention her just fell away. And I think that there's just like so much stigma around showing your feelings. You know, if you say that you're struggling, you just are begging for attention. If you say that

you're happy you're rubbing it in people's face if you say that you're grieving people like oh get over it like change the record and so I felt like there was just no way that I could ever bring up my mom without it seeming like I don't know attention seeking or things like that and so that was the hardest part that I was like this crazy thing has just happened to me my favorite person in the world is gone and all of a sudden I just have to like shut up about it and people all of a sudden aren't being like oh so what was your mom's favorite food or whatever like you know nobody's asking that because how strange but also no one asks it because there's this real fear and when it comes to grief there's this real fear around upsetting the other person

so instead of asking questions that would allow for that person's their greatest loss the person that they love the most to continue on in conversation we avoid it and we avoid it because where like, oh, I don't want them, I don't want to make them think about it. But the thing is, you're thinking about it all the time anyway. It's not like it's very far from your brain or very far from your thoughts. I mean, what's a piece of advice that you would give people listening right now surrounding that? Because we speak to different people all the time where they say that they're like, I would love people to continue the conversation or ask me how I am when I'm going through my biggest loss. What would you tell people? I would love to cancel

saying sorry because being like oh yeah my mom's just passed away people go oh I'm so sorry I go well you didn't kill her and I feel like there's all of a sudden this like power dynamic shift of I am feeling heartbroken about whatever whatever it may be and then you go I'm sorry and I go it's okay and all of a sudden like I'm comforting you because you feel uncomfortable I just kept found people just kept saying they were sorry and I was like you don't need to be sorry like you didn't give her brain cancer you didn't do this to me you didn't do this to her and so the path I now go down is that fucking sucks because all you want well all I wanted was someone to just be like that really sucks and I don't there's nothing I can say but that's really shit because you just

want people to acknowledge your pain and I think that this is true for so many situations in our lives like we just want to be heard we just want people to be like you know what that really sucks that that happened whether your worst thing today was that you missed the bus or that you dropped your berries and go get on your t-shirt or that like you know your mom is dead like whether it is one extreme to the other like everybody's worst thing is their worst thing and they just want to be heard like people just want you to acknowledge that like they must be having a shit day because xyz happened we struggle so much with death like we struggle so much with grief and like we don't like the discomfort of potentially upsetting someone else and it's a very western culture

thing but we dance around grief and I think one of the things I loved about your book and something you just mentioned in terms of the casualness I also like how you speak about grief in a casual way and hear me out when you're like hey this really bad things just happened but I got to get up in the morning and make toast or I'm watching TV these things feel normal but nothing feels normal at the same time and it's this it's this really like life goes on yeah and it does and I think for a lot of people they rally around you for like two months and or even less sometimes you know you get them you get the messages you get like you know some niceties and then a lot of people you don't hear from anymore you know and it's like that doesn't just stop for you you're

still left in the grief you're still working through it like it's such an ongoing process and I think people unless they've experienced themselves they don't get it and I think that was another really challenging thing for me because I was 19 like you said Brit and I didn't know what was going on and neither did any of my friends like no I didn't know anybody that had lost a parent or anything so all of a sudden I felt like such a burden on all of my friends and I just felt like they all pulled away from me because again like they didn't know how to sit in that discomfort and they didn't know what they were doing and you know they were going to Europe and drinking and having fun and I was like well I'm at home because I've left uni so that I could

care for my mom there's so many things that as you grow up and you learn stuff you can apply it but no one that I knew would learned anything yet like we still haven't but you know you just don't have the the like emotional maturity to try and talk to somebody about that so I felt like all of my friends ignored me I felt like they ignored what was going on and just thought that I would be able to figure it out. And I didn't like, I don't think of as, I don't have an ounce of pride in me that I handled it well. I don't think I did. What's your relationship with those friends like now? I don't really have a lot of friends from that period now. Like, cause it was a lot of school friends that I still kind of saw and whatever. Yeah. So I think that mostly now it's

like uni friends or friends that I went on to like meet working in radio or whatever, just cause it was just too hard for them. And it was too hard for me. Yeah. Sometimes you need to, I hate to say it, start fresh, but sometimes like having attachments to different parts of your life is not what you need. Having said that, how has grief evolved for you now when you're hitting these like huge milestones and you have huge successes. And like you said, you've written bestselling books and you've got a hit podcast. What's it like experiencing that where you still grieve your mom and your loss but also you've just gotten on with it at the same time like I imagine that is a very conflicting feeling yeah um like I just wish I could tell her um because I just know that she'd

be so happy um like I just know that she would be so so pumped for me and I know that she would love it and I know that every morning I'd get a text at 5 30 being like oh loved what you said about this today on the phone you know like I just know that she would love it and I know that she would love Ryan as well you know and there's just so many parts of my life that yeah like I've now got a partner who I've been with for 10 years who didn't meet her like I've been with him for so long and that was after she died like how how are those two things on the same timeline yeah like it's just so wild to me and it just makes me so fucking sad like but I'd say that the way that I've grown with the grief like they say that the grief doesn't get smaller your life

just kind of learns to surround it and I think that there's probably some guilt for me associated with like having this amazing life where I laugh every day and I don't laugh all day every day but I laugh every day and I'm like oh so you don't care about your mum and there's some times where I feel really guilty that I have this great life when, well, how dare you? Like, oh, so you reckon you're so sad about your mom, but like you go and you enjoy your life. But I think that I've just learned that like my life is for me. It's not for anybody else.

And it comes and goes in waves. And there's, there's parts of my life that make me really sad because I think about my mom and I wish that she was here. And then like in the car on the way here this morning, a song played on my Spotify and I had a boogie because she really loved that song, you know? So I think it's also just, yeah, the waves of knowing that I'm allowed to be happy, I'm allowed to enjoy my life and I give myself permission to enjoy my life

and I give myself permission to be sad because two things can be true at once. Do you think there is any link, tenuous or not, for you with your decision not to have kids to losing your mum and going through that when you were almost still a kid? I don't actually know. I think like my mum loved being a mum like her biggest achievement was that she loved all of us and she looked after all of us and like so there's four kids in my family I've got three siblings

and yeah she just loved it and I know that that was just her biggest achievement I guess so there's parts of me that's like oh but for me like my career is such a huge thing like I don't want my kids to feel like they're competing vying for my attention for my job you know which like wouldn't be the case but maybe I wouldn't be able to juggle that I don't know I don't really think that there's I mean somewhere there might be a link but I think sorry you might need to go back to therapy for that one I probably should have asked that yeah no that's a that's a tough one no but I think I think I think it is actually a really good question because they're probably somewhere is I also just think I love having money and I've heard that parents don't have a lot of

money it's kids are expensive they are very expensive what's the reaction like because i want to say this now because i just laughed when we're talking about grief and i don't want people to take that the wrong way but you handle grief with humor what's the reaction like mainly when you use these i mean comedic timing surrounding talking about your mother's death normally pretty split crowd i feel like some people just love it and i'm like oh you have a dead parent a and they go yeah there was a there was like a video that went viral not that long ago and it's these two sisters and they're sitting at the table and they're laughing because one of them did was pregnant at their mum's funeral and like do you remember this video I've seen it and they lose it

and they're like they're laughing and they're like so I just want to say mum I'm so sorry for doing this at your funeral but like I couldn't help it and they're like laughing and I was like here's a good social experiment i'm like reading the comments and there's all these people like oh you just you know your mom better than anybody of course like you know what she would like and this is so funny and i like thanks for the laugh then there's people like this is so disrespectful and how dare you and i just think i'm actually allowed to say it because it's my lived experience would i say that on behalf of anybody else absolutely not but for me that's what makes sense and for me i know that my mom would love it i know that she would be laughing i know that

she would think it's so funny that she's part of my life still because i get to laugh and joke about her and i don't think that people understand how powerful that connection is like getting to to laugh and joke about my mom when normally like i'm expecting what you're telling me is you can only talk about that if you're sad like the only the associated feeling with your grief should be sadness and embarrassment and like wanting to hide yourself away and like feel ashamed I'm not ashamed to have grief I'm not ashamed to like want to laugh about something that happened to me that's it's my experience I can do what I want with it you know I'm not hurting anybody we had a similar experience recently and I'm gonna laugh saying the story again but fuck it didn't go to plan

And my grandparents were like real parental figures for me. Like I grew up with my grandparents. I lived with them. And we've waited to scatter my grandparents' ashes together. They were married for 67 years. And Nan passed away this year. It was really sweet. But scattering ashes is not sweet.

And the plume of dust that covered everyone that was there was not sweet. The places it went, it shouldn't have gone. Went down my top. And there's all these people that look out. Like it was just, it was like a comedy show. It was like something that you would expect to be on like a black comedy. It was not funny. and it was so funny at the same time and and I had this real moment where we were telling the

story in the podcast and I was like fuck someone's gonna be offended someone is gonna be offended because this wasn't their version of scattering their loved ones ashes and also because we lent in and we laughed and we made jokes and I was like and you know like for us yes it should have been a very reverend day but everyone was laughing and it's because I know papa wouldn't have given a shit he would have been like haha that one's for you I know you can take that Laura when I was like covered from head to toe in ash he was down her pants he was everywhere but I also think yeah grief is complex and like there's moments where it floors you and then there's moments where you do find the funny in it and it's not the funny in the grief but it's just the funny

and the absolute absurdity of how extreme the emotions are totally and I think that anyone who's experienced it will absolutely be able to understand that part of it I would love to know And, I mean, you know, we touched on a little bit around the successes and also, like, how life takes a different path and then it continues and you have these things that happen after the person you love passes away. But one of those things, being your partner of 10 years, how did you guys meet and, you know, how do you find a man who's willing to come and pick up your shit on a Monday?

You don't reckon Matt would pick up your shit? I reckon he would. Matt wouldn't. Ben would. Yes, he would. He would. He would. Ben would hold the bag for me while I shat in it.

yeah I reckon like he'd hold it out he might actually I'm gonna ask him once this podcast test him that's healthy test him yeah uh given the situation what would you would you a no hypothetically babe hypothetically yeah listen to today's episode and let me know what you would do we met at uni actually not very original but like very casual and normal I guess we were studying sound engineering together and he was like a year below me so he kind of worked on a couple of like projects together and whatever and he like lived on my way home we would be in the theater till you know like 11 or 12 o'clock and I'd be like oh well what are you gonna do catch the bus like oh I'll drop you off and we kind of just like got to know each other and it was a

really just easy person to talk to and at that time like my mum was alive but she was really sick and so we kind of talked I remember like vividly this one conversation being like oh no I'm so mysterious and he's like you are the least mysterious person like I've ever met in my life and I was like nah like you don't know me you know like I'm just a snotty like 19 year old and he's just like nah I know that like your mom's about to die and that you're probably gonna leave uni and I was just like oh okay cool so you have been listening to what I sang and then yeah like she passed away and I left uni and then I rejoined and I ended up being in his year so I got dropped down I had to do second year again kind of thing anyway and yeah so we just kept dropping him home

and you know like all of these things we just got to know each other really well and we had so much in common but there was also so much that he knew about that I didn't know about and it was like the exact relationship I needed and I don't mean romantic relationship necessarily but he was the person that I needed in that time. Like he was just really caring and willing to listen and like funny and wouldn't let me wallow in my bullshit, but also let me wallow in my bullshit when I needed to. I think it's really important to have people that really know what you need and can assess the situation and not just like write things off. Like it's not like, oh, well last week you cried and I did this. So this is what I'm going to do again. He's a really

thoughtful really caring person and I think I just really needed someone that could hear me out and yeah and then we actually just like started sleeping together and we were sleeping together for like nine months to a year or something and then I was like I actually really like you will you go out with me and he was like um okay and it was the most awkward thing because then I was like cool I've got to go to my shift at Coles but with a boyfriend literally I'm like I've got to get to the deli that hand needs to be cut so i asked this boy out and then i'm like cool bye like i've got to go shave some ham all good you knew him when your mom was still here but you weren't romantic until after she'd gone so was there a part of you that did she ever know about him as a friend

like ah right because he was just one of the boys i went to uni with and there was like two girls in our course so there was it was mostly boys so it wasn't like oh there's a boy at uni it was just like yeah like all the guys you know like it was just it was nothing so nah she didn't know about him which is it's it's a shame like i'm i'm really sad she didn't get to meet him because i think that they would get along really well because tobs has got like a really dry sense of humor and so does my mom so i think that they would have you know when you hear about those couples where the boyfriend is on like her mum's side they would gang up against me I think yeah and then what what is next for you because I feel like you've ticked so many boxes and kicked so many goals

like where do you dream of going individually because personally I see you on like a comedy circuit that's what I see I think you're so funny and you're so brilliant but where do you see yourself individually and Tony and Ryan I don't know I just really want to be happy I just really want to keep doing things that make me happy and I think rather than try and come up with what that might look like I think that in this kind of job you can't really ever predict it like things just come up and you have to say yes or no and I actually like a few years ago wrote down this list of non-negotiables which I really fucking recommend if you have never ever sat down and being really honest with yourself about non-negotiables for your life I recommend it

five things that like before you die you know that you need to do rather than a bucket list of like I'd love to get these things done five things that you will not leave this earth without achieving what were your non-negotiables one of them was being on a billboard which I did that is so good I will not leave this earth unless I'm on a billboard yeah it's so funny because I've been pushing for a billboard with Laura to Laura I'm like let's get a billboard I mean the thing about a billboard is that the billboard doesn't do anything but how good's the photo of you in front of the billboard you know that was one of them and actually the last thing that I have to tick off oh excuse me aside from living overseas that's one of my non-negotiables the last thing

that I'm going to tick off actually this year is hosting family Christmas in my own house oh that's so nice you're so cute I love you so we are Torbs and I we're hosting Christmas at our house my sister and her husband and their boys are coming we're cooking we're doing everything and I am so thrilled and I think that the most exciting part about that is that it's been a really really really long time since I've had a goal that wasn't work related yeah it's really amazing isn't it and it's so easy to have work-related goals and not have those like family moments because they just feel so tangible like a work thing you're working at it every day whereas I think I've just like left myself behind a little bit and so I'm really really excited to do that

yeah like I'm just I'm fucking pumped where do you want to live overseas oh I don't care just that experience I yeah I just want to know that I've done it Ryan and I actually at the moment are very obsessed with like TikTok Bali real estate like I don't know if you guys get those videos in your algorithm yeah buy this for 25 yes and so it's like this amazing villa and it's like live here for six dollars a day and you go okay like so we're really obsessed with that at the moment so maybe bali i don't know i don't really care as long as it's somewhere that my french bulldog can come and that's basically my only requirement and you've got two more what are other two bucket list things so I had also oh one of them was to actually just be famous I didn't

really know what that looked like I love that you said that because people feel like they can't say that people feel like if they say out loud I want to be famous especially in Australia in the Australian landscape we hate feeling like anyone takes ownership of of what they want especially something that is about being famous but I love that you just like I want that I want people to know who I am for whatever I do. Well, I think it's the being famous for what it's like the having the what, you know, like, do you want to be famous because you were that girl who shat on the street and you made it to the news? Like, or do you want to be famous for the thing that you're proud of? Like there's different types of fame. And I think that's something that I unpacked as

I kind of got a bit older and that it wasn't really the fame part of it, but it was the fame was like the avenue of doing a job that I loved because you know you can't like be a singer or be a dancer or be a comedian or whatever if there's no audience like that just then is a hobby and not like your full-time job like that can't be your full-time job if there aren't people watching you and paying to see you or whatever so I think that the fame was just the easiest way to be like well if I'm famous it means that I'm doing something that I love and I'm good at it yeah exactly and I'm probably doing like a very non-traditional job you know so that's what it looked like for me in the end was that it meant that I could yeah do a job that I was really good

at and that I loved and that made me really happy well you've ticked that off because people know your name Spotify knows your name I know it's astronomical it's astronomical Tony you're such a joy and we love I mean we're it was a long time coming like we said a year of waiting to get you on the podcast. We absolutely adore you and everything that you guys have achieved. We love the podcast. Tony and Ryan, if you haven't gone and listened to it yet, go give it a listen, but also get around to everything else that Tony does because you are genuinely just one of the most, and I hate the word authentic, but that is exactly what you are. You're one of the most authentic people and yeah, you're a joy to speak to. We heard on the podcast the other day that

you guys took some, I shouldn't say took some, you used some content from the Life Uncut discussion group and you were having a little laugh about it we absolutely love hearing that i love to know that you guys especially ryan's lurking in our facebook discussion group i know i get tagged in stuff sometimes and i have a little nosy of whatever like people have tagged me and i love it wait what have you been tagged in people just tag me in random stuff i think that there's like a bit of a thrill in being like she's in this group because i'm also in this you oh my god this is hell dark but I think you'll like it I'm also in this like dead mum discussion group and I get tagged in stuff all the time people like oh my god you know that girl who's got a

dead mum she's in here and they just like tag me like tag Tony she'll relate to this yeah awful it's awful but it's wholesome too you know you found your group it is really lovely and the connection as we were saying like it just really beats everything else that I thought you know like you go oh my god it'll be so great to get to do all this stuff then you go wow there's actually all this other stuff that is so amazing about this kind of job and like reaching people that you just never could have dreamed would ever hear what you had to say in the best way it's so true we absolutely agree you're an angel thanks legend i love you guys thank you for having me thanks tony no thank you

We'll be right back.