Life Uncut - Living In a Glass House of Accountability, a Feminist Talk and the Inspired Unemployed

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Hey Lifers! Britt is still in the jungle & we'd love, love, love for you to vote to keep her in (10 times if you can endure the ads haha) VOTE HERE Do you go to sleep angry with your partner or do you resolve it all before the zzzs?Also very curious to know if you have certain activities that are laptop only, or if you're comfortable doing it all on your phone? What's your 'limit' of the depth of the activities? On today's episode we have a meaty chat about accountability culture. Last Wednesday feminist authors Antoinette Lattouf, Clementine Ford and Yumi Stynes held a free event with a special guest that turned out to be Jack Steele from the Inspired Unemployed. The event turned out to be a bit of a prank for the TV program Impractical Jokers. People who attended the event have reacted with mixed emotions; mostly being shock, disappointment and anger. We dive deep into the complexities of accountability culture, and what it means to live in a "glass house" where transparency and self-awareness are key. We chat about the nuances of why some people choose to address indiscretions, and why others don't. We talk about intent vs impact, calling in vs calling out and whether there's room for grace when someone in the public space f*cks up. You can watch us on Youtube If you have an question please send it on it to life uncut podcast on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Darug Walamutta land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. And I'm producer Keisha, filling in for Brit while she's still in the celebrity, the I'm a celebrity jungle, the I'm a celebrity get me out of here jungle. It's a bit of a mouthful.

She's in South Africa. Yeah. Still. Well, you know what? This week on Wednesday, that's when they're going to start like, you know, turfing, yeeting people out of the jungle. So if you haven't yet voted, now is a good time to sign up and do the old votey votes for good old Britney.

Yeah. Also about that. I'm sorry for the people that I accidentally lied to on Instagram stories. I posted something through the week being like, guys, it only takes three seconds to vote for Brit. Turns out if you're logged into the TenPlay account, it only takes three seconds, which is why I told you that's all it took. If you don't have an account, it's a little bit more of a process. I'm still livid about the fact you've got to reload it ten times. So we were talking about this in the car, right?

So you can vote ten times, which they say on the show is because you can vote for multiple people. But I don't think – like who's voting for multiple people? Like people don't do that. But Keisha had a theory and she was like, do you know why Channel 10 makes you vote for 10 times over? Because they want to advertise to you 10 times. They want you to see the banner ads. It's because they can charge 10 times the amount to the people who have to pay for advertising

on the website. It's not a conspiracy, guys. I'm pretty firm on this. And frankly, I would just appreciate if they were honest about it. If they came out and said, the reason we make you vote like this is because we need the coin. I'd be like, full respect. Cost of living crisis.

They're like, please vote 10 times because our retargeting ads are not getting enough servicing. We need more hits. Anyway, speaking of which, please do vote for Brit 10 times. I've been doing it every day. Did you say? Yeah, no, I already know the answer to this. So, okay, if you didn't see last night's episode, we're recording this Monday. It was Sunday night's ep.

Sky Wheatley was in a coffin box covered in snakes and water. And it was the single most horrific thing I've ever seen on a TV show. And I've seen Saw. it was horrible it was it was the stuff that nightmares are actually made out of and part of me i mean part of me is so grateful that it wasn't brit who had to do that but then the other part of me would have was like good for content if only well i saw that bit of brit with the bubble thing around her head that had the snakes crawling through it not enough snakes it was only about five this guy had about 150 really it was the coffin full of snakes where do they even get

them from? The logistics of this show are so interesting to me. Like, do they just send people into the jungle to build all of these contraptions? Where do they get the snakes? Where do they get the things to eat? I just, I'm so confused by it. No wonder they've got to show you 10 banner ads to vote because they've got to pay for the setup. My big question though, and this is all I could think the whole time Sky was like, Sky Wheatley, if you don't know who she is, she's an influencer. The whole time I was thinking is what if one snake got angry? Like what if one snake got a bit pissed off didn't want to be in the coffin box like you know and it decided to arc up do then all the snakes arc up are you then in a box full of snakes that are all like fighting and biting each other

and then simultaneously biting you like what happens in that environment and I know it's not happened yet but it seems like a very real possibility of something that could happen and then it's like a domino effect yeah like what do they do do they go in and pull her out but then what happens to all the snakes sorry to people who are scared of snakes which there are a high percentage and you'll probably turn this off by now okay but anyway like this is our obligatory push every time we get on this podcast i'm saying like please go subscribe 10 play keisha keep gaslighting people into thinking it's only a couple of minutes just go and vote if you do actually like create a login account it doesn't take long at all so like we and we need this

every day guys because we need to keep it away for as long as possible actually i feel a little bit guilty for kind of not mentioning this as much as what i think you should have she's in there for Rise Up, which is a really, really wonderful charity. It essentially has a lot to do with helping women and families escape domestic violence situations. They're really great. Create incredible safe houses. I think that's one of the biggest things. We've spoken about it before, but when women try to leave domestic violence situations, relationships, it's the most dangerous time for them, for their children. And also the facilities to go to are often just as bad as the houses that they've come from. So they're not safe, they're not clean, and they're

not habitable in a way that you would expect for someone who is already going through so much trauma and that's what rise up creates they create like beautiful living spaces for people to have a sanctuary to go to when they've experienced hell on earth already and that's a really incredible charity so like on one hand you can watch brits suffer and on the other hand we can do good in the world so like vote vote vote vote vote vote kisha on the other hand did not watch i'm a celebrity she watched the uh maths reunion which i like this is the season that i haven't cared so little about which is weird for me because you guys all know I am a math stan but I did not stand this season I didn't get invested hey kind of chime in chime out I chime in for the

drama like the spicy bits I kind of lose interest halfway through and then I'm back because it's reunion I think there's one more episode by the time you're listening to this I think that it will be completely finished so they had half of the reunion episode last night and it was very full of drama and I'm so sorry for it I was a bit of a traitor and I did watch that but by this stage everyone who's participating in that experiment knows that there is a chance they're going to be given an edit that they're not they're like oh this is not a flattering edit you know and they've blamed that for years and years and years I'm gobsmacked that they're not more careful I'm like how did you let that come out of your mouth because you know what can be

done i don't know part of me thinks that if you're going on that show now if you're signing up for maths and you are someone who is kind of like in the villain edit you either have zero self-awareness like you have genuinely no idea what you sound like or how you present or you don't care and or you want to screen time because obviously like the loudest the craziest the silliest like whatever is the most outrageous thing that's said is going to be the thing that's shown on tv and I don't know if people on that show understand that like not all press is good press right like the amount of vitriol and hate that you receive when you're a villain from maths that's why I'm genuinely confused as to whether it's a lack of self-awareness or whether they're welcoming of it

like they want to be that person and they want to have that notoriety even though the notoriety is bad I don't know it was so baffling to me because the main thing that they kind of focused on was the fact that one of the contestants who made it to the end with his wife on the show they went their separate ways because he had been texting one of the other brides during the experiment they rock up hand in hand and the way that they were speaking her name's ellie she's like i'm so happy everything's so great and it was almost as though they were surprised that the reception from the group was negative i was like what way did you think this was gonna go like he's not even subtle bragging just like outright boasting about how good things are in comparison to how they were

in front of the woman that he was with I do not know how you could go into that environment it's kind of like if you know a normal person was to have an ex that is still a part of the friendship group and they turn up to an event that's like an engagement party or someone's birthday party and they've got their new thing whether a fling or a new relationship and it's more than just rubbing salt in the wound it's like i'm so much happier now because you sucked in front of everybody i disagree with this on the basis that i think we're made to think this from the mechanics of the show right because obviously that the day that they're put together you expect that they're in a relationship and they're committed it's two fucking strangers who don't know each other who

didn't like they did not they were sleeping together oh yeah all right yeah i mean like i said i didn't watch it it wasn't like they were just friends you know they did sleep together and i think they slept together like relatively close to when the whole texting thing came out that's miserable it's just so strange to me like i picture even i think if you break out with someone and you go amicable you know you're like oh we're amicable we can be around each other i just wonder whether most people would act that way or whether they'd have more tact you know in a normal environment like let's say you and matt broke up and i had a birthday last night we had a fight i thought we're going to fuck yeah we had a fight last night i was like cuddle me and he was like

i don't want to cuddle you and then i went to sleep with my back to him anyway i had to wake up this morning and i was like do you sleep cuddled every night no just when i'm needy as fuck and i've been away i've been in bali and so and then i got home and he went away for work so we've not seen each other for seven days why didn't he want to cuddle you because you hadn't showered had you no i did i did something gross i did all the prep i was so ready for a cuddle no oh it was a cuddle no it wasn't even a cuddle okay it was misrepresented as a cuddle though no it was because and it's my fault so like he'd come home it was late in the afternoon that he got home and then i had to get work done because i'd had the kids all day to get prep for today's

record so he came home i wasn't on my laptop till 10 30 working and then we went to bed and i was like give me a cuddle and he was like no fuck you you've been working again all night and i've just gotten home we've not seen each other for seven days so it was more around like a priority fight is what we had he was taking a stand yeah by laying down his back towards you yeah he took a laying down stand so anyway we had to make up this morning are you one of the okay so you did go to bed angry because I know a lot of people are like never go to bed angry and I'm like oh I wish I was like that but my bitterness lasts longer I'm not that good of a person I can well and truly go to bed angry.

No, I can't. I can't. And so I threw out a few barbs laying in bed with my back to him. I was like, what are you going to just lay there with your elbows facing my head because he lays there like this and that's how he sleeps with his fucking elbows like two little daggers pointing at me. And I was like, no, no, we are not going to sleep like this.

You will cuddle me. So then he begrudgingly cuddled me. So I don't know if that counts. If you force someone to hug you. Yeah, so he was out of obligation. Guilt cuddled me. and he did it for like two minutes and then he rolled over and went to sleep so I was still dirty this morning but I had to get up and come here so I called him in the car and I was like

can we stop fighting now I hate fighting anyway it's fine I will go home tonight and we probably will have a special cuddle and that's way too much information for everyone but I'll tell you all about it on Wednesday when we come back to record anyway look I mean we could talk about maths which honestly I wonder how they're gonna much this year like this year of the season we haven't spoken about it much at all what we haven't spoken about it because I feel like it lost a little bit of its flame for me this season and I have been so invested up until this point and I don't know what it was I don't know whether it was the casting or the repetition the repetition of the drama that now I'm like oh it's the rinse and repeat thing it's exactly what we

saw happen with The Bachelor they kind of found a formula that worked then they rinse and repeated it every year and that's kind of how I felt about this season of maths I was like oh who's going to be the cheating scandal when's that coming when's the you know the misogynistic guy going to come in and so I kind of feel as though it's now repeating the formula year on year and for me that's lost the spice it's lost the thing that kind of made it almost like I can't believe that this is happening because of course now I can believe it's happening because it happens every fucking season you know what I'm gonna miss in the Facebook group in the life uncut discussion group there is a thread for every episode and so we all get in there and chat and I feel really sorry for

the people on different time zones to like the east coast that's in daylight savings because they have to get it hours later but I really love chatting about it in real time with people on the Facebook group and I'm like oh my god I can't believe that just happened so I'm actually going to miss that but speaking of the Facebook group I put a post in there yesterday because it was one of the most relatable things and some of the comments that have come off the back of it I am shook to my core that people exist in this world this is the meme I posted my most millennial trait is big purchases must happen in big laptop screen and I was like oh yeah someone wrote back and said booking flights on a phone is crazy that is a laptop activity there are so many things in

my mind that I deem a laptop only activity like I could only book accommodation on a laptop the thought of booking accommodation on my phone I'm like how do you see the pictures how do you compare like how do you get I know you can have multiple tabs but do you get multiple tabs or do you just pick one and go for it. Keisha for someone who is so endearingly scatty like and I mean this with the best and kindest in the kindest of ways. It's okay I'm diagnosed with scatty. It is wild to me that you have a benchmark for this. It's wild to me that you go okay here is my line and here is my limit and your limit is booking accommodation on your phone. I would literally book my own funeral on my phone. I'll do everything from kids appointments to my whole entire around the world

holidays like i will do every single thing on my phone you would book an overseas trip on a phone yeah 100 have done the only thing i can't do is i really can't navigate we transfer properly on the phone i find it very annoying so that's a lot that's a laptop activity but apart from that everything phone phone phone phone is my computer it's your portable computer keisha i just don't i don't even know how people like you exist but there were so many comments like this some of them said, I just booked an international flight on my phone. So much easier than my laptop. So much easier. What? How? Click through. You've got Safari. Leigh said, I only get out my laptop to do my taxes. Yeah, I wouldn't do my tax on my phone. That's pretty wrong. That's your limit.

That's your limit. I think if you need to use a spreadsheet, a phone is probably not the best. Anything to do with Excel is probably a laptop activity. Apart from that, everything else is fair game on phone. I just don't understand how you guys exist. Melissa said I'm 55 and I use my phone for everything. We don't even have a laptop. But Georgie, Georgie, you're my type of person. I booked flights to London and went to my parents to use their PC because iPhone or laptop was not sufficient. I'm thinking of getting a desktop because some things to me feel too casual even for a laptop. What are you doing with your time? What do you mean so you need to sit on a non-movable screen to feel like it's got a lasting impact on you

i feel like i need the structure i think i need like the stable environment to book risky things or like i don't think i would make a purchase of over 300 on a phone do you know it just seems too airy fairy and casual for me i think that this is probably more a reflection of your lack of trust in yourself that's what this comes down to the only thing about phone purchases sometimes you order something on online shopping or whatever and you know that stupid shop app that like it's a plug-in for a lot of websites these days it's too easy it's it is frustratingly easy that sometimes you order things by mistake or you send it to the wrong place by mistake because it's so automated and it thinks it knows exactly where you are and exactly what you want to do you click

like confirm because you think you're going to the pay page but all of a sudden you've just paid eight hundred dollars for a thing from iconic that you're gonna have to return the whole thing because you never really wanted it. That's if you can return it. Maybe this is why. Maybe it's not that I don't trust myself, which definitely is a portion of it, but maybe it's that I'm tight.

I'm too scared that I'm going to spend money when I don't want to. We experienced this recently. So Tony May, it was, we had like an Easter egg hunt over Easter. It was very fun. Like people had to go online and find, it was like lots of codes

and it was very quick moving because you had to look for a code and then put a code in, but other people were hunting for them at the same time. The amount of people, We had one girl who placed an $1,800 order, $1,800, and she messaged in a fit of fear. Do you know what?

I bet she did it on her phone. That wouldn't have happened on a PC. A fit of fear. And she was like, I do not know how it managed to go through to purchase so quickly. She was like, but this was absolutely a mistake and I do need you to refund me or I will not be able to eat or pay for my rent this week. And I was like, girlfriend, I got your back.

I, no one, no one is spending $1,800 on a whim. They're just not. Post this meme to our Instagram socials. Cause I would be so interested to know, like, is this the new wallet debate? Is the booking big purchases on an iPhone versus laptop? Is that the new millennial debate that we never knew existed? Well, this doesn't seem to be millennial. Melissa said she's 55. I think that this comes down to chaoticness. How chaotic are you as a person? But this doesn't make sense because you're equally as chaotic as me whether you admit to it or not and you're willy-nilly with your phone maybe it's tightness maybe it's whether you're stingy sometimes I'll think about purchasing something and now I've trained myself to be like don't impulse it wait until tomorrow

and the amount of times I close that tab and I really pat myself on the back for it but you know what I close the tab on my fucking laptop not on my phone all right guys a little bit of a change of gears for this one. We wanted to talk about something that happened last week that's been circulating in the media over the last couple of days, and there's been a lot of chitter-chatter online about this. Now, on Wednesday last week in Sydney, there was a feminist conference that was held by Clementine Ford, Antoinette Latouffe, and also Yumi Steins, all of which are three very prominent figures within the feminist space. And so they held a seminar. It was a free speaking event. So nobody had to pay any money to go to it. It was sold out, however, because obviously,

if you hear the opportunity of going and seeing three of your idols talk about issues that you're really passionate about, you would want to attend and you would make a true effort on a weeknight to go and see it. So the way that this seminar was described is that it also was going to have a special guest on the night. That special guest is someone who you might be familiar with. It's the Inspired Unemployed. So Jack Steele, he's one half of the Inspired Unemployed. They have 2 million followers on Instagram. They make very silly skit videos. A lot of them around like being like a tradie, but they also make stupid skit videos around the stereotypes between men and women. But overall their content is very, it's very lighthearted. It's quite funny. Whether it's

your cup of tea or not, it's supposed to be comedy. But it is taking the piss. Absolutely taking the piss. Now the other thing is that they actually have a TV show. It's called Impractical Jokers. If you haven't seen the TV show, the mechanic of it is, is that one of them goes into a situation or a venue and they get fed lines by the other person who is backstage and so the people who are on the receiving end of it and in this case at this feminist seminar it was the audience Jack was being fed lines by his co-star off stage and some of those lines were incredibly outrageous and also very steeped in misogyny which try and understand the contrast when you've rocked up to be at a seminar that is being represented by three women who you aspire to who you really value the

opinions of. And then you have a man on stage who is saying some outrageously misogynistic things along this panel. I think a lot of the people in the audience were thinking, what the fuck is going on? And why have we given this man a microphone? Now, some of the comments were things like, I think chicks dig consent, is one of the things Jack said. I think chicks dig consent. I really like girl writers, which is obviously very minimizing because all of the women on stage of authors. Also, I guess like overarchingly, it was this real jarring perspective of incredibly misogynistic male on stage opposing these very intelligent women. And this kind of unfolded over the space of 50 minutes. So people in the audience were becoming more irate and more confused by what

was happening. And then at the very end, Antoinette Latouf stood up and said, actually, this has all been a bit of a prank. This is part of the Impractical Jokers show. And it has gone down like an absolute sack of shit. Now, just to kind of put the parameters around this, the people who were in the audience, they knew that something was being filmed, but they didn't know what was being filmed. They hadn't consented to being part of a practical joke TV show.

No, but they did have to sign release forms saying that they were being filmed and that they weren't allowed to record their own content while they were there. Which is interesting because it's a consent form, but can you consent when you're a part of a prank but you don't know that you're a part of a prank? We're going to get into a little bit of that later. Some people who were at the event and also people who weren't at the event who heard

about what had happened have gone onto Instagram and they've vented their frustrations. This particular comment was left by Aperol Skits on Clementine Ford's Instagram. It says, your voice has been a beacon of inspiration for many, including myself. So to witness your participation in a prank show where the very essence of feminism seemed to be twisted and exploited for laughs was disheartening to say the least. The rhetoric of it's just a joke to minimise women has long been used to excuse reprehensible behaviour and to see it perpetuated on your platform, even if it was a bit, that you lent your credibility to is profoundly disappointing. By this performance, you further trivialised the hysteria of women who were rightfully orate in the audience to be circumvented into a very harmful rhetoric. to be witness to your complicity in that is so disheartening it sends a message that our voices

and experiences are not worthy of serious consideration but merely fodder for entertainment yeah and to be honest this was not a one-off comment leanne said just wasted an hour of my time which i'll never get back and the poor woman sitting behind me was crying i'll be okay but this show probably should have come with a trigger warning so many women upset tonight another post that was made by Definitely Maybelline, tagged the three women, so Clementine, Yumi and Antoinette, and said, I really love your work, I really do, but this is beyond disappointing when you preach feminism and platform these losers.

Like talk about fourth wave feminism, this night truly set us back. Please do better. Now I think it's really important to state none of the women have come out and spoken about the event. There has not been any real clarity around whether they were complicit in it or they knew exactly what was going on. there's been several news articles that have reported that it was organized as in like the three participating women knew that this was the prank show and that the only people who was

supposed to be the butt of the joke was supposed to be Jack Steele. But obviously the audience who were involved, they're the ones that felt like the butt of the joke. I guess like there's been this big outrage that's happened across social media about accountability and everybody in the comments section is demanding accountability. You know, what do you have to say for yourselves off the back of this. Now, I want to be very clear and upfront because I have experienced the other side of this. I mean, Clementine Ford had a very, very strong reaction to a video that Matt created last year around the relationship dynamics of when a mom goes away and the dad brings in the mother-in-law to help take care of the kids because he's incompetent to do it himself.

It was a satirical video that was pointing fun of a very, very real thing that a lot of people have to experience. Now, what I want to say off the back of that is I understand the bias in this. And the reason why I wanted to talk about it was because this isn't an I got you moment. This is a moment about talking about accountability, quote unquote, because I think we can scream and preach this idea of like wanting people to be held accountable. But what I really wanted to say off the back of this is that people seem to be so angry in the comment section and be absolutely going for Clementine and Yumi and Antoinette who these are three women who within the space of feminism have genuinely done so much they are profoundly intelligent and exceptionally successful

women and yes this event may have been not look it wasn't a good idea and it didn't go down the way in which I'm sure that they intended it to go down but I cannot believe one single iota of me does not believe that it was their intention to make fun of their own audience. I think it backfired and it went down poorly. And I think it was a bad choice. But I don't think one bad choice should negate all the amazing things that someone else has done. And I think you need to look at people as a whole and go, okay, well, what was the meaning here? And what were they trying to achieve? And I guess with this instance with Jack Steele, the problem is, is that the audience felt like the butt of the joke. And when you have your own community, it's so it's such a

privilege that you want to take care of those people you don't want to kind of make them the people who feel like they're being made fun of I think that was what was most surprising to me I was just mostly surprised at them agreeing to this seemed very off-brand for every reason that you just mentioned like they have all all of them have done incredible work and I really do think that they have actually contributed to swinging the pendulum into a much more progressive feminist space. And so that's why it seemed so contrasted to their previous work. It was just strange. It was really strange to me. The branding of it was quite bizarre. I think it's really important in these circumstances to acknowledge bias. But I also want to preface this by saying this is not

an attempt of us shitting on any of them or throwing any mud. I actually want to talk about a lot of the themes behind what happened here and apply them to any situation that happens either in the public space or in an event like this. And something else that I think is really interesting is the whole trope of, but it's just a joke. In that particular scenario that you were talking about with Matt, the video that he made was a joke. It was poking fun at how pathetic men look when they don't do domestic labor and they don't contribute, which in that instance, he was the joke. And I said at the time that the reason he could make that joke is because of how not true the stereotype is within his own relationship but people did they came and they commented on the

video and a lot of what Clementine was saying at the time was like it might be a joke to you but it's not a joke to us because this actually does exist in people's lives and this exists very much so in traditional households so don't make a joke of it because it's not a joke it's very real for some people it makes me kind of question when are we allowed to say but it's just a joke are you allowed to do things like this where you kind of go oh look this was meant to be a joke and it was meant to be a prank where Jack was the butt of the joke or is it just that anything that has the potential to attack you know the progression of whatever values that you're trying to put forward are you allowed to make jokes about that or is it just completely off the table well I think I mean

it comes down to the contradictory nature of it more so I guess from my perspective it's like I don't think we can pick and choose when we use the term of it's just a joke I think if you're going to blanket something and say you're not allowed a joke about this because stereotypical jokes about misogyny are absolutely not funny whether they come from satire whether they come from whatever the means is behind it the vehicle is behind it it's irrelevant because I'm saying it's not a joke right but in this instance I guess the way in which we're supposed to interpret it is that well this was a joke so have a sense of humor and I think that that April Spritz or that comment that you read earlier really encapsulates this. But I don't really, like, I genuinely don't

want to get into the hypocrisy of that situation. I guess my real understanding of this and like where it comes to quite an interesting conversation is this idea of online accountability, this demanding of accountability from people when they do something that we perceive as being wrong. And unfortunately, in this instance, these three women are on the receiving end of that. But I guess the problem is, is when we have this culture at the moment online, where we have some people who have become the accountability queens, the call out queens, the people who, when you step a foot out of place in a way that isn't congruent with the way in which they think you should behave, they will take you down and call you out. And on one hand,

that's celebrated. But I guess on the other hand, it's like what happens when the call out queens themselves do something that isn't in line with their own values or makes them be on the receiving end of people saying, hey, now you have to take accountability. How are they supposed to behave? And then does the same rules apply? Are they allowed to just go silent and not say anything and not take accountability? Do they need to behave in a way that reflects what they've expected of other people online? It's a really interesting space. And for me, I think what happens is when you build yourself into a glass house, as someone who can't do anything wrong, because you're calling out all the things that other people do wrong, you put yourself in such

a precarious situation where you can never make a mistake because your own people will come for you and that's what we're seeing has happened especially to clementine ford and i genuinely think it's it's unfortunate because i think about what people contribute as a whole and like who is that person 99.9 of the time and what does that person do 99.9 of the time and that is a reflection of who they are not the one thing that they've done that's been perceived as a fault or is wrong because we're all human and we're all going to make mistakes and make choices sometimes where the intention behind it was perceived in a different way. I think for me, I thought a lot about this situation and I thought about the grace that we want to afford people in the public space

and specifically when they choose to put themselves into this space. So what I mean by that is that if you're the type of person who is going to get online and say, I'm going to build a media profile off of noticing and calling other people out for things that I think that they're doing wrong and a lot of the things that have happened in that space I think are very fair that you know Clementine specifically has called out very fat phobic people very racist people very misogynistic people and she has shone a light on real cultural issues but I feel as though she has lacked a little bit of grace in understanding whether people are allowed to fuck up a bit and it kind of leans into this whole like intent versus impact. Like if someone does something in the

public space and their intention is for it to be lighthearted or funny, or just their intention is to not be harmful, does it matter that their intention was pure or does it only matter what happens as a result of it? You know, I think about standup comedians, especially with this kind of thing. Does it matter that they were just trying to entertain an audience or they were maybe trying to poke a bit of fun at something because it existed of a stereotype. Does it matter that they weren't trying to hurt people through the joke or does it only matter that they have hurt people? I mean, that is something that comes up a lot when we speak about racism. And now it's coming up because we're speaking about feminism versus misogyny. What is the intention of the

person versus the impact that that joke or the impact it had on the people? And for some people who are listening to this, it's black and white. Intention is irrelevant. It is only the impact that matters. I think that there has to be a scale. I think you can't completely negate the intention behind what someone does. And the reason why I say this is like, look at the court system, look at like the criminal system. We have murder, we have manslaughter. The intention matters to some degree. I'm not saying it matters wholeheartedly, but in these instances, when we talk about impact, I'm like, what does that impact look like? Like, are these people who went to this event, had their lives been forever changed? Are they now disappointed in these three women? Like,

what was the actual tangible impact that this has had where these people have to stand up and take deep accountability online for their transgressions? I guess I think sometimes we can get so caught up in like the injustice of something that we don't really stop and go, okay, well, what was the impact? And now I don't want to speak for the people who were there because maybe there were people who were traumatized in the way that it's been described online. But also I think, you know, when you look at the big picture around how is that going to impact your life or what has that done for you, then that's where I kind of think the conversation around intention versus impact, it becomes a bit more gray. The other part of this as well, and I guess it's the reason why

the people in the audience are so angry and irate as it's been described, is that for a really long time, if you are someone who's been described as a staunch feminist, it's a negative, right? Like it doesn't come with a nice quilted blanket around what feminism is. And I think for a lot of people, you have to almost defend yourself and be like, yeah, feminist just means like, I want equality for everyone. I want equal opportunities. But if you've been labeled as a staunch feminist, it also comes in coincides with like not being able to take a joke and being an angry feminist. Like that's the painted brush that I think a lot of people is perceived as. And then you have an audience of people who are there who are angry. And it just once again

reinforces this stereotype that they're angry feminists who can't take a joke. For me, I think it was a terribly thought out plan. But at the end of the day, it's an impractical joke platform of a TV show that a lot of people enjoy. And now we're having a bigger, greater conversation around feminism. So what was the impact? What happened at the end of the day? And have people been irreversibly harmed by that event? So I guess like how much accountability needs to be taken? Or should we just sometimes take a step back and take a breath and stop yelling at people online all the time you know some people I think are worthy of completely being cancelled because what they've done is fucked you know but other people I think oh you know what they kind of

stepped out of line here and they probably regret it and I'm hoping that they learn from this and I'm the type of person who I want to believe that people have the ability and the opportunity to learn from those circumstances in order for them to do that I do often think that they have to take accountability for the things that they have done wrong and in the public space that can be in the form of like acknowledgement a form of apology some type of you know what guys you're right and I got this a little wrong and that can happen a lot more easily when it's call in rather than call out culture and we get messages like this often to Life Uncut I'm not going to sit here and pretend like we've never got a message saying hey you guys kind of got this slightly off the

mark oh we've had worse than that and that's you know it's all part of speaking publicly no one is ever going to say things and do things a hundred percent a hundred percent of the time but i actually yeah i really appreciate when people send us messages and say hey just wanted to let you know like this is a different perspective and don't use these words and here are the reasons etc we had one recently actually and it was really i mean it was a good moment to take stock we had a joke off the back of easter and i can't even remember exactly what the joke was which didn't go down very well you know somebody wrote into us and they were from christian community and they said look you know i just want to point out that had you made this

joke about any other religion it would have gone down terribly but seems like it's okay and Christianity is an okay space for people to make jokes about there's definitely a debate around what isn't isn't off limits when it comes to making jokes but I appreciated the way in which it was approached it was a call in it was a hey you know this has made me feel this way rather than it being like we need to cancel you now and interestingly when I first read the message my natural reaction was like oh but here are my reasons and here is why I thought it was okay and you know, blah, blah. And then I took a bit of a second and I went, no, you know what? You're right. You're right. I wouldn't have done that. And I will acknowledge that. And I will say to

you that you are correct and I'll take it into consideration next time. And that's a grace that we were afforded in that moment that I don't personally feel as though Clementine often gives other people. And that's why I feel slightly different about this situation because I have found that she really requests and demands accountability from people online. And yet in this particular circumstance, it seems as though she's not living up to the own standards of what she has created for other people. If you are the person who kind of instigates that type of behavior, do you then have to be radically accountable yourself? Yes, I think so. And that's the problem. I think that there's the irony in this. And that's why I think people are outraged,

probably more so than what they would be normally, because you can't be the accountability queen and call people out online without taking accountability yourself and I think that that's why when we look at social media unfortunately Clementine has copped it more than Antoinette or more than Yumi Steins because of the nature of which she operates online and like don't get me wrong like I really like I said I don't want this to be in any way mudslinging and I say that deeply from the fact that I appreciate so much of what has been contributed to the feminist discourse like I do think between these three women they have done so they have done way more than they have ever done negative you know the conversations that Yumi has brought

around consent was so undermined on that stage she's written an incredible book for kids and you know it was very polarizing at the time but it was all around teaching sexual education which is something that we so deeply lacked as kids and she's created a book which you know you're supposed to sit down with your children and show them the age-appropriate parts of that book and then you have a guy on stage at this function talking about oh yeah chicks did consent I understand why people were angry. And I understand why people just want to have some sort of like acknowledgement that they were hard done by, that they gave up their time, their energy, their adoration, their love, their respect for these people only to be tricked at

the bottom of it. But I also think that there's, there's more that comes into play when it comes to this idea of accountability online. Like you need to be accountable. You need to say sorry. And I genuinely think, and, and I've learned this from my time, you know, working within the media. Sorry is never enough. You can't like, there is no amount of sorry that makes other people who are already angry online, turn around and say, do you know what? Like she is sorry. And she didn't mean that. And she actually is a good person and she's done all these other great things. It's so black and white online. And it's so vicious that often it is better to say nothing. And that's what for me, I will take on the personal accountability. I will learn from

the mistakes that I've made, but I'm not going to publicly, unless I've done something deeply, deeply, deeply shameful that I hugely regret. But in the instances where I'm like, I need to explain myself because I'm being misrepresented, there's more layers to this story. And then I'm going to get into the nitty gritty of like, well, this happened and this person said this, and then I said this. If you need to get to that granular level of explaining yourself in order to take accountability, then all you're doing is opening yourself up to put more gas on the fire. you're actually creating more fodder for news articles to write more articles about that then allows the articles to continue for longer. When you say, Keish, that you have your theories as

to why these three women haven't said anything, I also have my theories. On one hand, it could be because they've signed NDAs and they absolutely can't say anything. But on the other hand, it's because the more they talk about it, the more accountability that they take, the more eyes are going to be on this topic and the more that people are going to talk about it, which at the end of the day, no one wants these things to continue. It's a really tricky space. When you demand accountability from others, you have to give it yourself. And that's kind of what's being created here. I feel two different things. I feel like I'm really sad about the fact that we are in a place where saying sorry isn't often enough. And I do wonder whether that's

because it can also be used as a bit of a PR spin. Like we've all seen that before when people have done things and they've had the PR response you know it's I will learn and grow from this and it's like will you or won't you like and I guess maybe we kind of roll our eyes at it a little bit because we think it's just the thing that they have they feel they have to do to make the noise kind of quieten down or tamper a little bit because then people can go well they did apologize but for me it's more about can you see the growth can you see that the person has owned up to what they've done because I really like the culture of accountability to some extent but I think on the other hand and talking about this NDAs thing and that was something that I questioned I was like

maybe there's a reason that they're not able to talk about this publicly and often in these situations I actually think that there are a lot of reasons why people in the media can't say what they actually want to say even if what they do want to say is I'm sorry and that can be because they work for certain organizations it can be because they've got to fall into line a little bit because they're worried about losing their job they're worried about losing contracts like there are many reasons of which I go uh that's like it sucks that you realize what you've done wrong you want to say sorry for it but you feel as though you can't because you're at risk of something else and that may well be the case for these three women I mean we just don't we just do

not know we don't know why they haven't wanted to or they haven't chosen to address it and it could be for a reason that they could get sued but also when you say like a lot of these apologies look like PR stunts that people do when they're in these throes of something that's controversial the PR stunted reply is often a byproduct of having an NDA or a byproduct of working within an organization it is a public relations press release it's not coming from the person and in the way that they want to say sorry but there's a greater thing at risk here and that could be their career or their job or their employment and I think it's really interesting saying that because certain social commentators demand responses from these people when they've

stepped out of line they go why have you not said anything online why are you not coming to the table with an apology or an acknowledgement of what has happened when you're the type of person who commentates online and demands accountability from other people you haven't given much grace for the reasons either why they aren't able to or they're choosing not to then do you get to flip the script when you're the one who either is choosing not to or can't apologize you would yell at yourself like like and I like a part of me is a bit nervous to talk about this because it kind of puts you in the firing line of criticism and I know I know it would not take someone long to go back through something I've said online something I've done something I've

posted and be like you're a bad person because you did this yeah and it makes me a bit fearful but in a way I'm kind of like if we don't talk about this thing how are we going to as a culture put down the weapons a little bit and allow people to fuck up in the public space and allow them to grow from it I'm sure behind closed doors all three of those women are like fuck that was an absolute fuck up which is also why and I think it's important to note that it has been reported that they then gave more of their time they stayed back for another 50 minutes after this prank show had finished and had the conversations which most people had shown up to have in the first place without Jack still there. I'm interested to see whether this TV show

sees the light of day because one of the themes that is often brought up in feminist spaces is consent and it was spoken about you know chicks did consent was Jack's response but when they walked into that room they had to sign a release form which is like you are going to be filmed and I question whether that's informed consent or not yeah a value that you preach is informed consent and then the people in the audience haven't actually been given the ability to have informed consent it seems to me like going back to the the absolutely outrageousness of it like and the fact that anyone thought this was a good idea it's because these are people who deeply care about these concepts these are people who have shown up to have conversations around it and so

it's so in contrast which makes me think like how on earth did they get it so wrong but people do get things wrong I think it would have been a very different conversation if they had been told just so you guys know there is going to be a satirical element to this there's going to be a prank conducted but you wouldn't have had the responses from the audience that the reason why this prank show is going to work is because you need people to be outraged you need people to be like oh my god how the fuck is this man saying this that's where the dynamic of power flips it's no longer about Jack being embarrassed it's about the angry feminists in the crowd which once again stereotypes a group of people in a way in which is absolutely like reductive

and doesn't help the conversation yeah and you feel minimized because like your time's being wasted and you feel as if you've turned up for something that you haven't actually you know you kind of feel like you're the joke yeah in that space yeah I don't know I think that um I think a lot of things about this and I think the vitriol against these three women is pretty harsh I don't know whether we should be directing that anger at them as much as what we are directing it at the television production show or the person who was feeding the lines or Jack for actually going through with it like I'm not sure where the anger should be directed I just think that there is a lot of disappointment because it seems so disconnected from what these three women have

done in this space and like as you've said Laura they've all done fucking phenomenal things they have pushed the pendulum in ways they have had online debates and interviews and arguments with people that I don't think I've got the emotional capacity to put up with the backlash from their you know the the opposing person's audience like I some of it I've looked at and I'm like I so wholeheartedly agree with you and thank you for fighting that fight because fuck I couldn't do it like I would normally say in that situation why are we directing our anger at the women in the room and not at the men and the reason why I think that this is a different case and why I think that there has to be some accountability across the board is because it was the three women in the

room who invited their audience to be participants in something that they weren't aware of what they are participating in and so it's their job to protect the people who have subscribed to their content and who love them the most it's almost though as though like imagine if we did a life uncut show and people came and then we were like haha like this was on you kind of thing but we went against all the values in which we've always preached like it doesn't make sense I think I sat on this yesterday and I thought about all of the different components to this and and I think that's why maybe this conversation has kind of taken a few different turns because there are so many different aspects to it. And I don't necessarily feel like this is the exact

point that I want to make about this particular thing. I think for me, it was more a conversation of like, what do I want to learn from this? And there are a couple of things that I kind of ended up landing on. And one of them is that if you're going to be an advice giver and put yourself in that position and you're going to hold other people to really high standards, you have to live up to them. You have to kind of operate in the exact same way that you are expecting other people too and that can be a lot of pressure like that's a hard thing to do and so that's why I feel as though as a person I want to be the type of human who gives other people grace because I expect that I'm going to be given grace at certain times when I fuck up and I think for me it's more

like examining the idea of accountability culture and like what that looks like how we demand it of people and also like where is the space for personal growth because I think we see it play out a lot online and we see people get really angry about something. But ultimately, I think we can look at people in silos based on one thing that they've done versus what they've contributed as a whole. And I don't think that that's a healthy way. I think it minimizes all of the incredible achievements, all of the incredible contribution that people make to the fields they work in if we hold them to the standard of their one mistake. All right, it is time for our accidentally unfiltered your most embarrassing stories if you have one please send them to us

in the dms and when i read this one yesterday i it's fucking great i love this one okay my younger brother was living alone but in the same city as me and was having some health complications including having regular seizures that's not the funny part that's awful my sister and i were in the thick of taking him to the hospital appointments and to doctor's appointments including both of us having to take time off work the doctor recommended he download an app for his smart watch to track his seizures which will also notify his emergency contacts which was us it was really expensive but we felt it was worth it and one night my sister and i received an alert that he was having a seizure we called and we called only to find out that he was in fact not having a seizure

but was masturbating. That was a call I wish I never had to take. Oh, because of the mood? Okay, so I described this to Matt last night and Matt was like, he's like, I don't believe it, as if the heart rate's going to get up. And I was like, honey, it's not the heart rate, it's the hand. It's the hand. Like it's the action of the arm.

He was jackrabbiting himself. He was hammering. No wonder he didn't take your calls. He was probably like, fuck off. He was having a euphoric moment. Stop calling me. He was probably watching something and you probably kept, oh, you know when it pops down and it turns the volume off.

But you would think, like, if you're wearing a specific seizure watch app thing that, like, it tracks vigorous movements, you would think, might put the watch on the other hand. Non-dominant hand for that one. My left hand. My non-working hand. I'm surprised he was able to keep going when his sisters kept on calling, like as if nothing's gonna kill your boner more than that maybe yeah because imagine so he's doing

the jackhammering and then he's getting alerts the whole time from his sisters calling and calling and that's what he's looking down at oh oh that's weird sorry that got freudian guys if you do have an axelion filter please slide into the dms at life on cup podcast on instagram just send it to us and we love them it's our favorite part i love that story that really took some turns because i didn't see it going there it was deep when you first started saying that i was like this is not funny lord this is awful this poor person some things we can joke about it's just a joke guys it's just a joke all right keisha what is your suck for the week my suck for the week is that last week while you were in bali working we

recorded the podcast via distance so we didn't come into the studio and I really really really love our flexible work environments because we go to the studio two days a week to record the podcast and then the other days per week we're at home working. We work from home. Last week because we were recording from home I worked from home the entire time and this is a little bit of a personal like I need to work on this for myself because sometimes I can get into these real hyper fixation bubbles where I'm like okay I'm gonna stay at home and I'm gonna get all of this work done and I've like got this list that I literally have a piece of paper with a pen and that I write the list of things that I've got to get done and because of that I didn't leave the house for

three days and like I'm not saying that dramatically. ADD queen. Like I literally didn't leave my front door for three days. You shower? Yeah I showered once a day usually I shower twice a day and sometimes I just feel too much like a hermit and it's really bad for me and I know that it's bad for me but I kind of feel as though the payoff of getting all of the work that I need to do done is going to be worth it and it's not it makes me feel really gross and it makes me feel really antisocial and like I've not been kind to my body and now my back's fucked because I wasn't sitting in a proper chair for it and like you know now I'm looking at getting screens because my neck it's just I regret it okay it's my real suck for the week and I've got no one else to blame other than

myself because i did it to myself and i should have gotten out of the house my sweet for the week is that for everyone who was a part of a state that observes daylight savings we got an extra hour of sleep on sunday and i love nothing more than sleep and i love nothing more than sleep that is like free sleep bonus sleep you didn't lose the time that it took to get the sleep you just got a little extra like it's the fucking best also you're now tracking it no you only got the hour back that was robbed from you another night though it's not like you got free sleep you were robbed in the past and now past you is getting that hour back now because past me would have said you're allowed to sleep in for an extra hour today because you're losing it technically so

this to me just feels like a gain it feels like an incentive and now i'm tracking it and guess what I got two days in a row of 99% sleep on my Woot. That was the most validating experience I've had in a really long time. I will never understand people who track their sleep because it's a, it's an unachievable goal of mine. So it would be me being like, how about we track our exercise for the time we're going to climb Everest? Like it's not going to happen.

So like it's day one failed, you know, it's just not going to happen in my life. I mean, the counter of that is that I got a 62% this morning and I was like, oh, I just started my week off so bad oh my god so my okay my suck well I mean my suck for the week it could be sleep related but I'm gonna spare you all everyone loves talking about sleep how dare you it's actually so dumb but my my suck for the week is obviously went to Bali had to do a week of work over there and like on one hand I love it and on one hand I hate it because when we go over there we don't really stay in like we don't stay in the nice parts we're not going to potato head they were not having a nice time we're going to factories we're working pretty much the whole

time, but I'm really allergic to MSG in food, like properly allergic. I've ended up in hospital in Bali before with anaphylaxis. Like my, I can't breathe properly. I get hives. Like it's a whole thing, which is really problematic because all the food over there has MSG in it. Like literally everything has MSG. So I always end up leaving Bali feeling sick, just feeling as though I have the most insane allergies and MSG poisoning. It's boring, but it's kind of like, it's an accumulation so you know if you eat it once you don't die but the more that you have it and the more that your body can't process it you get like msg intolerance almost so i came home feeling so absolutely wretched and i've been having to dump tell fast like it's my job

so that's where i'm at so do you feel inflamed everywhere allergy vibes do you know what might help some sleep what didn't help is the red eye flat on the way home and my sweet for the week now my sweet for the week is actually our episode that's coming out tomorrow. So, and I'm using this as a bit of a double plug, but genuinely I'm so, so excited about it. So it was a vibe and unsubscribe. So my vibe on Ask Uncut a few weeks ago was Nyad. It is the true story of Diana Nyad. She was the first woman at 64 years old to set the record of swimming from Cuba to Florida. It was an incredible achievement, but also the movie that was made around her was just like, it's, and I'm

not someone who's into sports stuff, but I was so into this movie. It is beautiful. It was Oscar nominated. And then I got really into her story. And I sort of said on the podcast that it would be my number one goal this year would be to get her on to do an interview with her. And then it just so happened that we reached out and she said yes. And we had the pure joy of interviewing her the other week just before I went to Bali. And that episode is coming out tomorrow. So she's incredible. she completely redefines the limits that we put on ourself in terms of age she is such a motivating speaker in the way that she talks about life and she talks about achievements and she's also just super grounded like she was amazing and she's in her 70s now but just an incredible woman

she's one of the most unique people i've ever spoken to yeah she's so unapologetically her and also something else that i love is that the behind the scenes you know it's a massive part of the film and a massive part of her story is this beautiful friendship that she has had with a woman named Bonnie over the course of I think it's nearly 45 years 45 years of friendship and bit of behind the scenes for you guys Bonnie must still work for Diana or they're just really good friends who they help each other out because when I was sending over the details of like this is the link that you will record with us on I was emailing Bonnie it's just so special and something that I really loved that she brought up in the chat was the fact that we just don't have very many films

that herald female friendship and I kind of went away and I thought about it and I was like wow you're right like I can't think of the last movie that I watched that was specifically about that and yeah the story is incredible she's incredible it's going to be an awesome episode I really hope you guys love it but this is yeah and this is my reminder to you so if you haven't gone and seen it yet and you've got nothing to do tonight go home put Nyad on and watch it it's it's a brilliant brilliant film but it'll also give you a bit of the backstory on her even though we cover it in the episode i think you'll get so much more out of it if you've actually seen the film as well that that is it from us guys a little reminder go vote for our queen of the jungle 10 times

get the bed threads retargeting ads and just vote vote vote and then also if you have an ask uncut or you have an accidentally unfiltered slide on into the dms at life uncut podcast and you can watch it all on the youtube um life uncut on youtube we've got all the videos going up now so yeah join us and you know the drill. Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friends and share the love because we love love!