Life Uncut - Lyn's Law, no body no parole

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Howdy friends!Today we have biggy for you! First up, can you reprimand someone else's kids? Laura thinks it's a firm no, Then we are talking about the new sex sensation Karezza s*x, where the goal is to not have an orgasm, and what the hell is the point?!Then we are joined by Renee Simms, and for anyone who was captivated hook line and sinker by The Australian podcast The Teachers Pet spearheaded by Hedley Thomas, this is a interview you will be on the edge of your seat for. Renee Simms is Lynette Dawson's niece.Lynette had been a 'missing person' for 40 years until last month when her husband Chris Dawson was found guilty of her murder. In today's episode, we get an insight into how the family have coped over the decades, whether the family believed Chris about Lyn's disappearance, the relationship that they have with Lyn's daughters and whether this verdict has brought them justice.Lyn's family are petitioning for no body = no parole laws to come into place in NSW. You can access the petition here: https://www.change.org/p/lyns-law-no-body-no-paroleIf you have a spare sec, we'd love it if you could leave us a review on apple podcasts, or a star rating on spotify and as always, tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your fog, tell your friend and share the love because we love love!! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode is recorded on Gadigal land of the Aurora Nation. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. And I'm Brittany.

And it has been a wild, wild weekend, hasn't it Laura? Well, I mean, you drove to Port Macquarie. What was so wild? Well, not about mine. You started off this morning and I don't know this story yet. You came in and you said, I'm mad. I haven't slept. I had a running on the weekend you've left me on the edge of my seat you know when something

happens and it pisses you off so much that it just you're laying in bed at night time and you're like and you replay in your head how you should have reacted to the situation every single date I've ever been on but you know what I mean like you're laying there and you're like oh I wish I'd said this and then you have like the perfect comeback but it's just like 12 hours too late what happened so because you are you are describing my dating life but you don't have a dating life so what could it have been i just have children and that's who it has to do with okay so i was at the beach this is gonna enrage other mums out there and maybe as someone who doesn't have kids who has to put up with like other people's kids being annoying maybe you will have some sympathy from

the other side so we went to bronte beach it was a beautiful sunny day on sunday we decided we'd make the most of it we took the kids down to the kids end of bronte beach right so there is this little end at the beach where it has it's like the waves don't really hit it as much and it has a little pool it's a cute little swimming area yeah and like look it's not an official kids end like it's not just there's not a big sign when you get in there saying families only but there are a lot of children down that end of the beach the other end of the beach plenty of adults more teenagers but you know we were down there at the family friendly end and Lola and Marley were walking up the stairs there's several stairwells and each stairwell to get down to the sand has an entrance

and an exit like you can access the stairs from either side so on one side there's Marley and Lola trying to get up the stairs and Lola is 18 months she's not very good at stairs but she's fiercely independent and won't let me help her so she's trying to crawl up the stairs Marley's also walking up the stairs and this woman comes to walk down the stairs and I tried to move Lola to the side but she wasn't having a bar of it so anyway this woman had to walk around my kids and then at the same time Marley's like cousin so my niece Millie she was coming around the corner and then the woman had to then walk around Millie so is this to get into the pool this is just to get to the beach to get to the sand get onto the sand from the promenade long story short basically

she was trying to get down the stairs and there were three kids in the way and it delayed her by like literally five seconds and she turns around as Millie cuts her off and she goes oh for fuck's sake right in front of a four-year-old and right in front of Marley and I was so angry I was so angry so you were there with them like standing next was the blasphemy directed to the children or to you or just an exasperation to the universe well it was an exasperation that my children were stopping her from getting to the beach as fast as what she wanted to but the thing is she said it very very loudly which could have only been directed at my kids and so what did you say i said pull your head in and i went to say the f word but i was like that sounds very

yeah that's i just want to say but i was like pull your head in i'm like carried on the woman jumped in the water i had a quick swim jumped out but i was like what did she say hang on you just you just glossed over this argument so you have said pull your head in you know therefore then what has she done she was obviously embarrassed but didn't say anything and then ignored me and then just and then I wanted to continue it but I didn't so you chased her down and tackled her in the water and then I lay in bed last night thinking like what should I have said but I was so caught off guard because I've never been in a situation where someone has sworn at my kids before so was your unrest in bed was that because you think you should have said more or should have

done less or should have taken a higher road like what more a lower road I should have gone and like shat on her towel while she was having a swim like so what okay so I'm going to give you the microphone right now you have the chance to say to her whatever you wanted what would you say to her now what would you have done differently look let's give this woman the benefit of the doubt she's in bronte if anyone wants to go find her and get their pitchforks out um let's give her the benefit of the doubt she was probably having a really bad day and she just wanted to go for her swim cleanse off the day and not deal with someone else's children i can appreciate that children are annoying especially when they're not yours like i mean i think i have a high tolerance and patience

for my own kids I get it but I think that there's a very fine line between reprimanding or outwardly showing your distaste for someone's kids I think you have to really write that in I agree I think that she needs to be banned from it just goes to the other end of the flag anyway that has been keeping me up at night and now I feel better for telling everyone thank you did Marley notice because I know Marley's dropped the f word before anyway maybe this is where she's getting it from strangers maybe this is where she's learning she gets it from me let's be real well I I mean nothing as eventful has happened to me I did go to Port Macquarie this weekend for a flying trip for my dad's birthday we did some we got drunk and painted that was amazing and what a time to

be alive but I had a moment well hey I forgot to turn my dating apps off right and I oh oh dating in Port Macquarie what's that like I always turn my dating apps off when I go home to Port Macquarie because when you've grown up and everyone that's listening right now will know that when you have grown up in a small town and you were there for a very long time there's a lot of people on there you don't want to see and you don't want to match with and I forgot because the first message I got was like oh you've come back to your grassroots I see and I was like I have to delete this immediately did you know who the person was were you like oh it's David from primary school I was like damn it I forgot to snooze my dating apps because you can snooze your dating apps right

then it's put me into this weird phase where we've spoken about it before it's dating fatigue right and it's not just dating fatigue for me because I'm not fatigued at the moment by dating but I'm online dating fatigued so the online version so I don't mind I'm still happy to go on dates oh you want to meet people in the real world you just don't want to have to do like the annoying like oh hey how are you going like you know what did you grow up in Sydney bullshit it's so annoying and now I want to ask you a question because I don't know if I'm overreacting but everything turns me off now like everything I'm finding the most ridiculous things on people's profiles and the things that they're saying to be like no even sometimes I match them and they say something and

I'm just it's just a no but like this one guy just wrote to me right get it up it was a pull it up I was just a get him up and I'm like am I is something happening internally that I need to deal with because this is my reaction and I don't know if it's actually that bad it's a photo of Delilah and myself here I'll just show you cute amazing yeah just of course just you like in the sunset you and the dog having a romantic time together so standard and the comment all he wrote was hot energy oh that's it hot energy and I was like just does Delilah have hot energy do I have hot energy where's the energy coming from that was it and I was nothing else no other hot energy hot smile uh is that a reason I was like ew gross ew is that a reason to be turned off or is

something happening to me that I need to deal with oh look I think you're probably picking it apart a little bit but what do you write back to that anyway thank you hot energy where do you go with that yeah and how do you tell my energy is hot I think he's just saying you are hot no it wasn't no it was okay well then what what constitutes an appropriate slide in like what is a message that someone could send that would make you reply i'm just not having a lot of luck on there and i i don't know if it's me so i got another message right on in my dms okay in my instagram dms from a guy that said hey i saw you online and now this started off well right i saw you online dating so I thought oh he said I've seen you then he's gonna he I obviously haven't

matched with him yet he's gonna ask me out but that wasn't it he said hey I saw you online just wanted to let you know you probably shouldn't use dating apps just go and meet someone in the supermarket seems to work well have a good day that was it he went out of his way I am not even kidding I was like oh my god you have gone out of your way to to find me slide into my dms to tell me to stop using dating apps you didn't want to ask me out and then you told me to go to the supermarket to meet people do you think he is also on dating apps but doesn't use them and only meets people in supermarkets lauren not all heroes wear capes he's one of them he was just coming in with some advice but like how it's a it's a really hard time to be on the dating apps okay i'm gonna say

this i do think that you can be too picky though i think that a lot of people go into the whole chatting to people and dating apps they go into it with minimal effort and they're not invested because they might just be like, hey, what's up? How's your week been? Really bland and boring questions. But the reason for that is because they're probably talking to 10 other people at the same time, or they're too busy enjoying their actual real life that that online dating to them is just something to fill in the time. So I think you can't be too critical to start with. Maybe it's okay to answer and reply to those people and then see within 15 minutes or a day or whatever it is, whether that banter has improved. And obviously if it hasn't improved after a couple

of exchanges then well I know it's too late for me like I know I need to take a break because I I did have a bit of a rule producer Keisha and I have spoken about this before we both had a bit of a rule and we've said it on the podcast don't just start with a hey how are you like get a bit of excitement write to them about their prompts or their profiles or just be be better than that right but it's not the end better but it's not well a it's not the end of the world for me if if someone says to me hey how are you I'm a bit like really but I'll still respond right producer Keisha's flat no she's like she's a hard no she blocks and deletes which is I think that is too far right okay I have a question though if they're super hot like if they are the hottest person

under the sun would you still be like oh that's not interesting enough yes I would but I would respond now I said to producer Keisha I said what if Channing Tatum wrote you hey how are you now I don't believe a word that comes out of her mouth but she said she would block and delete I'm like as if but I know that I'm not sold well I know I'm over it because I've started to do this last night I wrote to someone and said hey how's your week and then I was like I was like I've become the person I hate I was like this this is how I know it's time to take a break so I think I need to snooze and start dressing up and going to the supermarket there is nothing wrong with hey how's your week there's nothing wrong with it it is a fine and appropriate way of starting

conversation okay so do you guys know about this someone has told us this before i need to look into it a bit more apparently you know how this guy wrote to me and said go to the supermarket apparently there's a thing there's a thing where you go to the supermarket and there are like low-key like batman signals that you put out to other people that shows you're single and their date it's something about no there's not i look i'm just saying this could be a myth but i've heard it that there's like you're making it sound like there's some underground sex club in woolworth Yeah, at the banana store. I think that's where it happens.

But if somebody knows, someone out there knows what I'm talking about right now. There are apparently signals that you can do in the fruit arena or something in the supermarket that lets somebody there know that you're there single today. And I don't know if it's rubbing your hand up and down the eggplant. I don't know if that's it, but there is a sign. Brittany's just deep-throating a banana. I'm like subtle, Brittany, subtle.

Okay, the problem is that you're then expecting everybody else to know what these cues are. i think it's an underground club like fight club like you don't talk about fight club but everyone knows i don't think any we have a dating and relationships podcast and we don't even know i don't think anybody fucking knows maybe that's the problem maybe i'm the problem no maybe maybe the whole another episode okay guys let us tell you what today's episode is about because as much as we're having a lot of fun and many laughs at the start of this we have quite a serious episode in terms of the conversation that we're having we're interviewing a wonderful woman her name

is Renee Sims. Now Renee is the niece of Lynette Dawson and I know so many of you will have heard that name, will have listened to the podcast and be as invested in it as what Britain and I are but there is a podcast called The Teacher's Pet. It was hosted by investigative journalist Hedley Thomas and it's been produced for The Australian. Now this podcast series is all about the disappearance and murder of Lynette Dawson and recently her husband at the time Chris Dawson was charged for her murder. Now this happened back in 1982 so it has been 40 years since Lynette's disappearance until now when Chris has finally been charged for her murder. It was just such a captivating story. It has been listened to 52 million times all over the world which it's a

really powerful thing these days to know that somebody can tell their story and be heard all across the world because what happened with this is the reason that after 40 years I mean Lynette is the mother to two daughters she was this happened on the northern beaches of Sydney which in comparison to the rest of the world you know this is a tiny little suburb her story was not heard nothing was happening for a very long time but because of this podcast because of this investigative journalist because this was listened to 52 million times it got to the point where they reopened the case and after 40 years the family was finally given a verdict they were finally able to have a tiny bit of closure even though unfortunately Lynette's body

was never found and it hasn't ever been revealed where it is and I don't think it is ever going to be well I think the thing that's so interesting about this chat so the reason why we wanted to get Renee on the podcast we obviously were so invested I listened to the teacher's pet when I was traveling around New Zealand a few years back when it very first came out. But it has not been accessible for the last couple of years. And that's because the case had been reopened against her husband, Chris Dawson. Now, as you said, Chris has always maintained his innocence. But after 40 years, he's been found guilty. Now, the reason why Renee's story is so interesting is because Renee is petitioning for a new law to be passed within New South Wales called Lynn's Law. And what

that means is is that if somebody is convicted of murder as Chris Dawson has been unless there is a body somebody who's found guilty is not able to be eligible for parole yeah because crazily enough and I didn't really realize until this petition for Lynn's law was brought up it's something I guess you don't think about it is only in New South Wales currently but you can still get parole without saying where the body is and I think this is a brilliant thing to introduce to say that, well, do you know what? Like if you, if you want any sort of leniency, you've got to provide us with something. You've got to give us something back. Well, it also adds into closure for the family. So that is all coming up in a little while. We will get into Renee's story and

into how her family are doing now that this verdict has been passed. But before we get into all of that, Brittany, there is something I wanted to update you on. And I know we've spoken about it a little bit over the last couple of days, weeks, maybe two weeks. Oh, the intimacy challenge. this is not about me okay this is not about my intimacy it's not about matt's sex life as much as some of you i know are absolutely just hanging on the edge of your seats to hear about my sex life again and some of you are completely repulsed by it and don't want to hear anything more no it's about something that i read recently which i sent you last night because i thought it would be good for you to do your research as well it is oh i did i think it's hilarious it is called carezza

and we don't know if we're pronouncing this right could be butchering it it's called carezza sex k-a-r-e-z-z-a we're going to go with carezza which is kind of like caress carezza sex i can i actually have the pronunciation here oh carezza oh carezza so it's called it's a type of gentle affectionate sexual intercourse it comes from the italian word carezza which means caress so it's coming from this like this intimacy right but the whole idea is to have sex without orgasming which kind of goes against the whole purpose of why so many of us have sex like the most common questions we get is how do I reach orgasm what do I do to get it we don't often have anyone write in and say hey I really want to work on not coming like how do I do that and obviously there are things called edging

we've spoken about that before where you take someone to the brink of an orgasm and then you wind it back and it's like a teasing kind of sex that's amazing but the whole thing with edging is because you do that because you build up towards having an orgasm right so like that when you finally do have the orgasm during sex it's like absolutely mind-blowing but the thing with carezza sex is that it's the whole point of carezza sex is to never have an orgasm so it's not about having passionate sex it's about having very slow intimate like I don't even know how to describe it it makes me think of when i was 18 years old i didn't know how to have sex just being connected and everything being very very slow i had to have a laugh at this like the

first line that i read was positions are commonly very relaxed such as lying side by side i'm like every single morning in a long-term relationship isn't it not even every morning once a week isn't that really lazy just like side by side sex yeah but usually you still orgasm but the reason why some experts recommend that you should all try having Caressa sex with your partners. Caressa. Oh, Caressa. Thank you for Caressing me. Is that it triggers a release of oxytocin. There is more of that bonding hormone, which improves intimacy. It improves closeness, and it also can improve communication between couples. And then also on top of that,

taking the pressure off, wanting to achieve an orgasm and that being the end goal can also bring about a level of closeness as well. look sex can be amazing without an orgasm we know that it can still feel good you can still have fun you can still enjoy it but for me I still want to have that end goal like I don't want to put all that time and energy to not get that like firework at the end I'm all about and I understand this I'm all about that closeness and trying to bond and trying to have that sensuality and and that magnetism and the connection like I think that's great but let me get off at the end yeah but why can't you have both do this at the start and then have an orgasm exactly why can't we do that

for an hour or i mean 10 minutes even why can't we have that but i had to laugh so some of the i want to tell you some of the behaviors that you can do to enhance your sexual experience so some of the things that they suggest you do in this current sex number one smile especially while making eye contact now i'm sorry but can you imagine being in the moment and looking at each other with a humongous smile on your face like it's a that's a mood killer for me I don't want to see you like it's the 4th of July I don't want to see you like you're at a celebration I want to see you like you're enjoying what you're doing like it's sexy and passionate if you have like a Colgate white smile on your face looking into my eyes I'm going to be in hysterics like

I feel like if you're going to smile at someone like that during sex whilst making intense eye contact with them you probably have to have a conversation first that you're going to try this because imagine if someone just sprung that out of the blue all right the other one I really enjoyed was gently cradle and rock your partner's head i've highlighted that sentence because i'm like it's so ridiculous gently cradle or rock your partner's head or torso that's what i do when i'm having a breakdown i hold their torso and i rock for dear life like that's not that that's i can't do that in a sec whilst you're having intercourse lie with one ear over your partner's heart that one's a good beat to hear to hear their heartbeat um place your hand gently over

your partner's genitals with the intention to comfort them we are children like we are talking about sex and laughing do you know what i feel like if any sexologists or yogis what are they called like sensual tantric yogis were listening to this podcast they'd be like those two girls do not have a good sex life well no see i think like i yes i do think this is funny i'm not gonna lie i think this is funny but mainly because i think it's unusual to get there to be cupping genitals but to not do anything with them like just to comfort the genitals look i'm happy to cup i will do whatever but i need that end goal like i would love to have this connection during the process but i still for me think it needs an

end goal but i'm i'm open i am not going to knock anything until i try it i just don't have anyone to try it with currently but when i do i do have something to say though if you're a male listener and you struggle to get your partner to orgasm at all you can now just tell her that you're doing caressa sex and it's it was an intentional thing all right here we go seen as though laura you are the only person right here that can do this i want you to go and try this with maddie j you've got to go and put in you do your due diligence do your research cup him for half an hour cradle him rock him and come back and tell me if you're closer and i'm not i'm not taking the piss so he can't come either like neither of us can come no you just cup so we have to just have very slow sex

with a with a zero okay i'll do it he won't be happy but we'll do it and i'll report back on thursday okay these are things i want you to do don't tell matt i want you to have very slow sex i want you to smile while holding eye contact i want you to rock his head and cup him his balls but then that's it that's all you can do and when we're finished after not having an orgasm i'll just lay with my ear on his heart to hear his heart but yes and then you can't tell him you can't tell him why you're doing it and i want you then afterwards be like do you feel closer to me this is actually a real test because i want to put it to the test all right i'll do it great throwing you to the wolves guys i got my vagina ozonized for this podcast i will definitely do

that's fine but you haven't actually mentioned your update on your intimacy challenge you must be 10-ish days in or so do you have anything to report yet i think we're i think we're like eight days in okay like fine everything's i don't want to get too ahead of ourselves okay when we've not been like i said if you listen to the radio episode we realize that you don't have to have sex every day so we've kind of cheated a little bit but like we're still being we're still being intimate well this is doing intimate things this is why this cupping will come in really handy well it could be the perfect exactly what you need right now no carezza sounds like a lot of effort for very little reward but I will try it just for you anyway let's get into our favorite

part of every episode and that is accidentally unfiltered I'm going first I have a very funny quick short one that I want to read to you all right hit me I was just at the hairdressers and she asked me to vote for her in the business awards I handed her my phone just pop in the details and I'll do it now she got google up and my last search was why does my clit pulse so much after I masturbate. Fuck my life. Her hairdresser is trying to vote for herself in the business awards. Honestly, your Google history can be disastrous. Like I often think Laura, even when it's you or producer Keisha, my sister, my family, my friends, people often ask to quickly Google something on their phone, right? You're going to pull it up right now. Here's a little quiz that

we can just throw in, in the middle of accidentally unfiltered. What are your last four like search things like if you pull up your search history on your phone what are the last four things that you have searched this is gonna be disastrous uh i have okay well my first one is what are the beige flags in dating what right yeah right so obviously i'm really doing what you do just in the dating world as if i shouldn't already know what they are how do you know if you are an absolute boring fuck on the dating profiles i like it uh i've got dna test sure who's my daddy dad i love you no i know who they are i was just um must have been researching something oval nude nail pictures oval nude nail pictures yep so like i was trying to find nails to get for my sister's wedding which

is in a couple of weeks so like oval shaped nude nail that was a google search right yeah right yeah some highbrow research right there and then i've got most amazing islands to travel to obviously i'm really wanting to get away after the news that australia is going to have La Nina 3.0 and rain for eternity okay well I was okay this sounds really bad but um I was actually just doing research for the podcast so my my search history at the moment is truly questionable and imagine if my phone got stolen and someone saw the stuff that I've been reading here it is uh man suffers 100 erections a day man smashes out of coffin after he was buried I've got squirt blankets are here to save you from dot dot dot and science has officially

figured out what squirting is i also have sex addicts you didn't know about okay i was at work on a video call today and we were discussing a polling tool called a sliddo i was sharing my screen and giving a detailed demo to everyone on the call when i accidentally closed the tab i felt a little flustered but apologized and quickly opened a new tab and typed in sliddo into google also i thought the s and the d are unfortunately really close together on a keyboard. So what I had actually typed in was dildo and smashed the enter key. And all of a sudden I was presenting a screen filled with dildos to my colleagues. Big ones, small ones, pink ones, blue ones, ones with suctions on the end. RIP me. I calmly retyped Slido into the

Google search bar and continued on as though nothing happened. I reckon there has been so many brilliant screen shares from people that have accidentally shared their screen. So I love that everyone on a work call thinks that she's that bored that she's typing dildos on her own accord she's like well while they're talking money i'm gonna look at my new dildo all right let's get into the chat with renee lynette dawson was living in the northern beaches of sydney as a mom of two girls a sister a friend and a daughter lynette has now been missing for 40 years and there was nobody no witnesses and no admissions for decades despite two coronial inquests no charges were laid for her disappearance until now. A lot of our listeners would now be familiar

with the story of Lynette Dawson after the Teacher's Pet podcast by The Australian investigated the mysterious circumstances of her disappearance. The podcast was downloaded more than 52 million times around the world. Finally, after 40 years, Justice Ian Harrison delivered the long-awaited verdict that Chris Dawson, Lynette's husband at the time, was guilty of murdering her. Joining us today is Renee Sims. Renee is Lynette Dawson's niece, who is campaigning for changes to the New South Wales legal system, being termed Lynn's Law. Renee, thank you so much for joining us today.

You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be here. I mean, for 40 years, this has been a missing persons case. And for 40 years, not a lot has happened until this podcast came about. How do you feel about that? Yeah, I think when you sign on to do a podcast like this, you never quite know where it's going to end up. Like we never could have envisaged that this is where this whole story would, I guess, run its course or run full term. So yeah, to think that 52 million

people or there's been 52 million downloads of Lynn's story is incredible. For anyone who hasn't listened to the podcast, like you listen to the first few episodes and you feel so enraged that someone could think that this woman had just walked away from her family and disappeared. And I'm sure that that is exactly how you and your family have felt your entire life. Renee, can you give us, just so that everyone understands a little bit of background in terms of like how you and Lynette were related, how you fit into the family and whether you in your lifetime got to spend any time with Lynette? Yes, I'm Lynette's niece.

My dad is Greg Sims. So he was Lynette's little brother and he's married to Marilyn. So if you've ever seen any footage, particularly recently to do with anything with this case, you would have seen Gregor Maryland and they are my mum and dad. Unfortunately, I am not 40. So this happened before I was born. So I never had the chance to get to meet her. Even though you haven't had the chance to meet Lynette, can you give us and explain to us kind of the impact that this has had on your family and how you have observed that throughout your lifetime? It's taken a toll on a lot of people in terms of they have fought for a really long time to try and find

out what happened to Lynn and often we just weren't getting anywhere with that. So it's incredibly frustrating process to go through. So what was it about it and how have you found yourself now in this position as the person that is out there fighting and advocating and trying to change the laws? How did you find yourself here? What was it about seeing your family go through what they went through that you just thought I'm just going to dedicate so much of my time and energy to changing this? This is not really a position that I find comfortable at all I'm a massive introvert so I would just prefer to lock myself in a room and not talk to anyone and that would be perfectly fine with me but you know you bite the bullet and you stand up

for things that are important and I know that particularly when the podcast started coming out my mum and dad were inundated with a lot of media requests and they weren't always able to do to do them I put my hand up and said that I would be happy to just try and get the word out I guess in the beginning we weren't sure how many people were going to listen to the podcast or how successful it was going to be. So any chance we got to talk about the podcast and get the word out there, we were willing to do it. So that's sort of how I ended up starting to do a lot of this stuff and it's just kept coming. What is your understanding or what has your family told you about Lynn and who she was and what she was like as a person, what her life was like before

she went missing? So they tell me that she was really fun loving. She was always all about her family she was always one to stand up for herself and for what she thought was right and she was never one to walk past a joke so it's quite nice knowing her siblings you can sort of see that in a lot of them as well so you do get a sort of a bit of an understanding about what she would have been like if I'd have had the chance to meet her and also even though you didn't have the opportunity of meeting her and her being a part of your life throughout your life and I'm sure that she has come up in discussions and I'm sure even before the Australian came up as an idea of doing this podcast, The Teacher's Pet. What did your dad speak to you about in terms of what he had thought

had happened to Lynn? It's kind of a fine line. Like you want to talk to your kids about this person that's been in your life and what they were like and everything about them. But then how do you have discussions? Like at what age do you start having discussions with your kids about domestic violence or potential murder? Like it's a really fine line to tread. And I honestly can't tell you how that went for us. I don't really have any memory of when things sort of switched over into we've got this aunt she was a lovely person to all of a sudden yeah she's also possibly being murdered I don't remember when that happened but it clearly did if that were to happen nowadays maybe it would be a more open discussion but this was sort of

in the 80s and 90s and I think those sorts of discussions weren't had as openly as they would be now. Did your family the whole time it's been 40 years which is a very long time what was the relationship like with your family and Chris this whole time was there ever a time where it was sort of normal and they believed his manipulation and his lies and genuinely believed maybe she had left on her own accord or did they always suspect that just something didn't seem right you don't ever want to suspect that someone who's a treasured member of your family which Chris was at the time you don't want to ever suspect that they've done anything bad and if they're telling you that this person is calling and they're sending messages and they're completely fine you kind of

want to believe that because believing the alternative means that you're never going to see that person again so it's kind of a tricky one absolutely because you know how do you reconcile that she's either decided not to ever talk to you again or she's not alive anymore so you know which one is it but he he would tell awful lies like he would say to my nan oh don't worry I've spoken to her she's going to call you on wednesday and then my nan would sit by the phone all day wednesday waiting for her to call and that call was never going to come like that is such a cruel thing to do to someone my nan didn't actually realize her moment of realization that lynn was absolutely no longer alive was at my pa's funeral and she spent the whole funeral turning around and

looking at the doors and we said to her what are you doing and she said lynn wouldn't miss today if Lynne was alive, she wouldn't miss today. So she would happily miss birthdays and all sorts of family celebrations. But according to my nan, she would not have missed the funeral. So that was the moment for her. Does your side of the family have anything to do with Lynne's daughters? We do. We did have a relationship with both of them as they were growing up. They moved to Queensland when they were quite young. And so they would come down in school holidays to see my grandparents and we would come down and visit them. We're still very much in contact with the elder of the two daughters but the younger one made it very clear at my nan's funeral she

was probably in her early 20s by then she made it very clear that she was coming to say goodbye to my nan and that was it she wasn't going to have any contact with the rest of us and she stood by that up until this day like we're very open to reopening a relationship with her but she has to be the one to reach out if she would like that why do you think that is do you think that it's just all too overwhelming or do you think there's still a level of I guess like protection of Chris like of her father or just a confusion? Has she given you any indication? She hasn't but her elder sister has sort of told us some of the things that they've been told as they were growing up and it's my understanding that she's been told some pretty awful things about us and about her mother and

that we're all in a witch hunt for Chris basically. It's just devastating because if you grow up and that's your entire world that's your truth that's your reality that's the identity that you have been told since you were such a little child that you can't remember anything different I can only imagine not just how hard this period has been for you and for your family and for your dad but also for them not just losing their mum when they're little girls but now having to come to the realization of not just losing their dad but that their dad was never the person that they thought he was at the same time must be so unbelievably challenging for them. And I just feel so much for them as people at the moment. Can you tell me Renee, obviously when the teacher's

pet came out, I remember I was in New Zealand with Matt and the whole time we were driving around, we listened to the whole thing and we just, there was this unbelievable rage that somebody couldn't be held accountable for what seemed so obvious to everybody listening. And then there was a period where you could no longer listen to the teacher's pet, the fear of it jeopardizing the court cases. What has this last two or two and a half years been like for your family knowing that this has reopened up everything and that it was going to go to trial and that Chris Dawson may very well face genuine repercussions for what he's done? To be honest though it's quite unbelievable because obviously for 36 years by the time the podcast started coming out

we had been campaigning and pushing and trying to get this to trial and it had been before the DPP multiple times before that point and they decided not to push ahead with the prosecution so we were doing what we could to try and get it heard but nothing was happening so when Hedley came along and started to do like told us that he wanted to do the podcast we were on board with that we were very willing to to do whatever it took although my dad did have to ask what a podcast was so that was fun don't worry my dad still doesn't know what it is either half the population still don't so if that makes him feel any better. I think it's a generational thing, so don't worry. Possibly, possibly. It's all right. I fixed him up. Yeah. So we can't be more grateful for the

podcast because I think without it, we definitely wouldn't be here or we wouldn't have a guilty verdict. We wouldn't have gone to trial. He wouldn't have been arrested, I believe. Knowing that that's happened is amazing. In the last two and a half years since the podcast came out, I guess we've just been watching it go through the courts. And I know that Chris has been doing everything possible to try and get it stopped. So he went to all the courts, all the levels of law courts in Australia to try and get this stopped because he, for various reasons, but one of them was because he didn't believe he could get a fair trial because of the publicity from the podcast. What were some of the other reasons that he had put forward to try and stop

it going to trial? So there was the publicity. And I think he also said that because it had taken 40 years to get to this point that he couldn't get a fair trial because a lot of the evidence that could have been gotten from 40 years ago phone records that sort of stuff people's memories weren't now as reliable 40 years on as they would have been back then so when the podcast came to fruition what was that like for your family and how involved were you was every single thing run by you was everything okay did you get to okay every episode and get to put your edits in saying well, I don't think that's actually correct or I'd like to swap this. Did you guys have a very active say? No, not at all. Not at all. That's surprising. Yeah. So I think mom and dad started

the process with Hedley in November, 2017, and the episode started coming out in May, 2018. They trusted Hedley implicitly, but he was doing the episodes week by week. It wasn't like he sat down and he did the whole series in one. He was going week by week. So every week when an episode would come out, we wouldn't know what was in it. We wouldn't know who he'd interviewed. We were learning things along with everyone else that was listening to the podcast. So it was definitely quite an experience. And I think, I mean, even the person who I'm guessing may have been the most affected by this. Did your grandma get to listen through all of this? Has she been able to listen back to the podcast? No, she unfortunately passed away in 2001. So she's not here to see any

of this. I'm so sorry. Yeah, that's okay. She would, I think, be quite blown away by this whole thing because she's just a a quiet humble trusting lady but also just having closure that's the thing you live with for so long is not knowing what happened to your daughter yeah not knowing if they walked away and not knowing if they you know how or why and I guess it's so sad that she didn't receive that in her lifetime it is very sad yeah you've just been in court and you've you've been sitting right behind Chris you've been very very involved and I mean I can't imagine what that was like to be so close to somebody that took someone literally from your family. But what was that like the last, I don't know, five, 10, 15 years? Have you ever had any contact with him or when did it

cut off for your family as well? When was the realization that we understand you were a loved part of our family, but something's not right now and we're going to cut that? It was Chris's decision to do that. And it happened not long after Lynn disappeared. It still sounds strange for me to say that she was murdered I know that's now they're obviously the reality of the situation but it's still strange for me to say that yeah so he cut off contact really not long after that and when he moved to Queensland that was absolutely it my nan was devastated because it meant that she didn't have the relationship that she wanted with her grandkids either so what was it like sitting behind him in court when you finally you finally got to this point it was finally go time

Yeah, so the first day I saw him was one of the first days of the trial. I was so nervous because I didn't know if he'd know me or what his reaction would be to some of the family being in the court. So I was quite nervous. But seeing him, he's an old man, and he just didn't seem to really know what was going on. So it was quite unthreatening, I suppose. and I guess given that I'd been in the same room with him for you know when you're in the same room with someone for 10 weeks I guess you kind of get used to their presence regardless of the fact that he is now a convicted murderer you know what the most frustrating thing and I'm sure your family has experienced this is the fact that he got to live out his life and I know that there's justice and there's so much closure that comes with the fact that there is a guilty verdict but that he had got he got to live out so much of his life without any repercussions out there in Queensland you know building a new life. Was there Renee a key piece of evidence that was provided that you

feel was really the piece of evidence that got this verdict over the line was there something that was so definitive it couldn't be excused or do you think it really was just a culmination of a bit of everything? I think it was a bit of everything there were obviously quite a few bits of information that were quite damning like the fact that he was leaving love notes in school girl's bags and a lot of stuff around the babysitter I don't think we're supposed to name her or probably talk about her too much based on an upcoming trial that's about to happen but yeah there was just a lot of circumstantial evidence and the judge said himself if they'd have taken each of those pieces of information individually they didn't really mean a lot but when you put

them all together they really built a solid case. Can you explain to us now like now that Chris Dawson has received a guilty sentence. Has there actually been any sentencing that's followed yet? Like, do you know what his punishment will be for the crime? We don't know yet. We have a sentencing hearing set for the 10th of November. And in that sentencing hearing, we'll be giving victim impact statements and that will help the judge decide what his sentence will actually end up being. As far as we know, within a couple of days of that sentencing hearing, his actual sentencing will be given. And right now, your family petitioning for changes in the law in New South Wales that you're calling Lynn's Law. What is Lynn's Law about? Tell us about that,

because I feel like this is something everyone needs to get on board with and really make happen. Yeah, so Lynn's Law, it's calling for a no body, no parole law to be introduced in New South Wales. So something that we weren't necessarily aware of is that this is not law in Australia. So we were just doing our best to get through this trial, not really expecting either outcome. But once we got a guilty verdict, literally the night of the guilty verdict, we were made aware that while no body, no parole laws are a precedent in the majority of the states and territories in Australia, New South Wales isn't one of them. So this means if someone's convicted of a no body murder in New South Wales, they can

serve a certain period of their sentence. And when they're out for parole, they can be considered for early release without ever disclosing where that body might be. So we feel like it's really important that New South Wales comes into line with the rest of the country to make these people serve out their full sentences if they're not willing to be forthcoming with where a body is so it might help a victim's family. So have they asked Chris point blank where the body is and he has refused to say or is he still just saying he's innocent or is he saying he doesn't remember? What's his answer to that? He is still pleading his

innocence. I think it's been 40 years and he has fully convinced himself that he didn't actually do this. With the verdict coming back as guilty, how did that make you and your family feel? We took no joy in seeing him taken away because he's an older gentleman, but I also think anyone with an ounce of human decency about them is not going to take any pleasure in seeing someone taken away to jail. I don't think that that's, that's not something we took any pleasure in. I think that there's so many people who listen to the podcast who are that, they're that step removed from where you are obviously with your family but I think there are a lot of people who saw the news and took joy in the fact that there has been justice for Lynette and I know that that's

probably a really challenging thing to say because you're so close to it and you know you have wonderful empathy but I think you know that I definitely read that and I was like fucking finally like I felt that for you and for your family and I know everybody else across Australia who has really just I mean I think that everybody listened that podcast and took Lynette on as their loss. Everybody wanted justice for her. And it's so incredible that that has finally been served. Do you think that Chris will ever tell your family what happened? No, I don't think, I mean, it would be great if he would, but I ultimately don't think that will be the case. But I guess if we're able to get this law through parliament, then we'll at least

have a carrot to dangle. What's the next steps now? Is Chris able to appeal the verdict? Is he able to challenge this with another judge? What is the next steps? So as far as we understand, after sentencing is done, he is able to appeal. The process could take multiple years. I also believe that given it was a judge alone trial, it will be a lot harder to appeal because the judge did a very nice job at pairing the case back to its simplest form and convicting on something that's quite hard to, I guess, appeal against, which we knew he would do. We knew that whatever his reasonings were, they would be as watertight as possible because I guess no one wants to be told, we don't agree with your judgment. So he's done his best possible job to try and seal that

up as tightly as possible. So what is next and what can we do? How can everyone get behind Lynn's Law and making this happen? Okay, so we have set up a petition on change.org and it's just to petition the New South Wales Premier Dominic Perrottet and the New South Wales Attorney General Mark Speakman, to try and get this law through Parliament. So we're trying to get as many signatures as possible. And if anyone wants to sign it, you can go to change.org and just search for Lynn's Law and it should pop up. And hopefully we'll be able to put it before Parliament in the next little while. Well, Renee, we have such an amazing and very active listenership. The life is here. Really want to get behind this kind of stuff. So I hope every

single person listening right now know that it seems so small to each person to go and sign one petition but if every single person goes and does it this is how we get change so Laura and I are going to do it straight away and I think I think for so many people just on that Brit like so many people see petitions and think what can my what can my one signature do what impact is this going to have but collectively it can have a huge impact and for every single person that's ever lost a family member to domestic violence or to any violence and have not had that closure that comes from knowing exactly where they are and the opportunity to lay them to rest we just think that this will create so much change for so many families and Renee thank you so much for everything

that you are doing for your time today and also from us and to you like it's been like I said it was such a moving and incredible podcast to listen to but this is your actual life it's not just entertainment and we're so sorry to your family for the loss that they've experienced and know there's 52 million people around the world right now rejoicing at this verdict and completely on your family's side oh we definitely feel it we definitely feel it yeah well you know we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet our highlight and our low light of the week Laura Byrne do you want to kick it off what is your suck this week my suck for the week actually oh it's kind of a sweet and it's kind of a suck this last week just passed me my sister and my mom

were filming something for yeah only fans no just we've got this new family only fans thing that we started uh you know it was weird seeing my family like that so that's my suck we were filming a reality tv show an episode um but it's up with the burns johnson's with the vikanskis we've got a lot of last names we've got a lot of last names in our household no it was something for my mom and that's all I can tell you about it at the moment because it's pretty top secret but it's not a reality tv show that you would normally do in terms of it being super fun or relationshipy it was actually a really difficult week with my family it does sound like it's been a pretty tough week it dragged up a lot of past family stuff but the reason why we

did it was for my mom because she really needed some help with some stuff that's been going on her life and look I know it sounds super I know it sounds super cryptic but it's been a very very big emotional family week and that was last week but the end of it and I'm going to say that the sweet is also something I can't tell you too much about but basically the end of this episode this filming and stuff meant that my mum really got her life back on track and I'm super proud of her and we've had some really full-on times as a family but I think ultimately what we experienced last week is going to be incredible for my mom and I'm so sorry I can't share more about it but I will as soon as I'm able to and I'll give you more of the backstory and context around what it

is that we've been doing as soon as I'm able to too well I cannot wait to see it because I know it has been a big week for you and if you want to wipe your snot on my sleeve like I have done to you in the past my sleeve will be here just give me a heads up my boogers are coming I'll put a jumper on they are coming uh okay my suck this week uh my sister is getting married in four weeks that is not the suck but I have been a bit late to the party with my bridesmaid's dress I finally got it and it just wasn't right like I got online hadn't tried it just wasn't the right color it wasn't quite the right shape and you know Sherry's been on my back a little bit saying you're leaving this really late I'm like yeah don't worry about it you know me I always

come through the goods and now I'm sort of panicking that I haven't come through with the goods but it's okay I have ordered another one and it will be here any day now and I'm fingers cross that's going to be great this is going to be also sherry suck when she listens to this and that you haven't like it's like three weeks away or something well i wanted to leave it i didn't know what i'd be feeling or what vibe because sherry's giving me free reign right she's like she has a few very loose guidelines but she's pretty much said just run a bite find some things you like run and buy me but she's very open because i'm the only bridesmaid like it's just me i'm the maid of honor and that's it so she's like just wear something you're happy and

comfortable in and she'll okay it of course but anyway my sweet was that I got to go and see my whole family we all got together in Port Macquarie for like it was just one day but it was just amazing we I didn't do any work on that one day I just we did archery we did painting we did walks and runs we had a very active 24 hours actually mind you my dad's super into archery so he's been like training us to be archers which is absolutely hilarious the weirdest thing I've ever heard it's the Hockley family with nothing straightforward where do you go to do archery where does one go an archer you can go and do it anywhere but we have it all at home we have a whole setup you sit in your backyard and you with bows and arrows that's what you're doing on a hockley family

reunion you have a couple of tins of canned beer and then go and do some archery i know you think i'm joking but that is exactly what we do where where do you go like you're from paul mccorry you're not from like hickville what are you doing i need to take you guys on girls trip we'll go to paul mccorry i'll introduce you to the family you can become one of us for the weekend it's What a time to be alive. So confused. And that is it from us, guys. Please keep all your questions coming in for Ask Uncut,

any embarrassing stories. And jump onto the website. It's lifeuncutpodcast.com.au. You can get yourself some tickets for the Sydney Live show. I know we've been saying it every week, but there's truly only a few tickets left. And then you can also jump on there and get a merch if you haven't gotten yourself a jumper yet.

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