Life Uncut - Maternity Leave for Pets & Can You Date A Friends Ex?

Episode Date: October 27, 2026

Hey Lifers! Britt’s pregnancy hormones have officially taken over, and this week she cried about butterflies. Yes, butterflies. Laura is (mostly) sympathetic and has a deeply unsettling caterpillar fact to share. We also have a BIG announcement. We’re doing our first ever In Conversation event in Sydney! It’s an intimate, small-crowd night with us and the team, and tickets are very limited. Life Unlocked members on Patreon get first access to reserved tickets at 10am Thursday, and general sale opens at 10am Friday. Set your alarms!    Then we’re talking Hilary Duff, girls weekend with interpretive dances and is whistling on a silent bus cute or horror-movie creepy? PLUS keep an eye on our socials this week. Britt is jetting off to New York for something very exciting for Life Uncut, and we can’t say what just yet... 👀 Then we get into the story dividing the internet. A woman asked her employer for eight weeks of paid “paw-maternity” leave for her new puppy and threatened a discrimination claim when they said no. Is a puppy really comparable to a newborn? And why do so few workplaces give any leave for pets at all? Finally, Tom Brady and the Victoria’s Secret angels. Joan Smalls has publicly called out her friend of 15 years, Candice Swanepoel, over her rumoured relationship with Brady. That opens the big girl code question: is dating your friend’s ex ever okay? We each share our own experiences, including one where we were the one in the wrong. Timestamps:00:00 Welcome back & Britt’s butterfly breakdown05:24 Big announcement: In Conversation tickets07:38 Hilary Duff, nostalgia & her very grown-up new era20:39 Eight weeks paid pawternity leave for a puppy?38:55 Tom Brady & the Victoria’s Secret friendship breakup50:43 Our own friend’s-ex confessions Wanna Join Patreon to get early access for tickets? HERE HERE HERE Keep your questions coming! Slide into the Life Uncut DMs at @lifeuncutpodcast on Instagram Join us on Patreon for exclusive content and bonus episodes You can watch us on Youtube Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Hosted by Britt Hockley & Laura Byrne Produced by Sophie Nathan Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford & Lachy Pugsley Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. Hi, Brittany. Hey, I have a quick update straight off that. How is your Roman Empire of the weekend? I'll tell you about the Roman Empire in a minute, but you just reminded me on something. Wow. So last week's episode or last episode this week, I don't know when we recorded it. I don't know which ways are. We have done a lot of recordings in a very condensed period of time. So I do want to say, you've done an excellent job of making sure that chronologically things are jingered because sometimes we'll refer. things but that episode hasn't come out. I come into the studio and I go, guys, this is for this date. Do not refer to this episode in this, but it's gone all co-buddly-dud. What was that?

We basically just ignore you and do what we want and we just get you to janker it if we make a mistake. What did you just say? It's gone good. I just made sounds. I think this is the moment where we need to replay Sov's reaction to Britain. me being pregnant. Every so often noises come out of your body and I'm not sure what they are. I know.

It's just something that happens. It's like you need to. You know what it is? It's I am a modern day Shakespeare and sometimes. Wow. Humble as well. There are not words that sum up how I want to feel. So I make the sounds and that's how I feel.

Wow. That's exactly how I describe you to my friends. Modern day Shakespeare. Anyway, Britt, we reminded you of something. Now I forgot. No, we were talking about how I almost didn't go to Laura's wedding because of Beyonce, because Beyonce obviously personally called me and asked me to come to her private concept in Dubai. I'll forever be grateful that you chose me instead.

I've thought about it a lot since we spoke about it on the episode, and I'm deeply grateful that you made such a hard decision. I actually am grateful you said that because I just didn't feel like you gave me the credit I deserved in the episode. I was like, she doesn't understand. So much gratitude in the room right now. Now, everyone's grateful. We're loving it.

Living life. I think of it. You know what I think about that, Laura? What I'll say is my DMs, I posted the reel on Instagram. My DMs blew up and I cannot tell you how many of you people would have bought your friend's wedding. Like so many of them were like, you're a better friend than me. Sorry, I'm going to Beyonce. They were like once in a lifetime.

I thought that maybe your friend's weddings once in a lifetime too. I do understand that. Well, statistically, probably twice in a lifetime. But I do understand that. However, the thing that's different about us is that we work together and we also have to see each other. So if the resentment is high, the vibes aren't as good. The vibez aren't as vibe.

I did have to consider the Vibé when I was the Vibé. Brittany walked in today and she said, I've got a Vibé for everyone. I was like, what's that? She's like, a vibe. A cart. Sophie pay attention, modern day Shakespeare. You can put Vibé into your vocabulary. That wasn't my Roman Empire, but I did have a Roman Empire if you want to hear.

Europe. Yeah. I think it's the pregnancy hormones. I'm upset about a lot of things that I probably shouldn't be upset about. No, Laura's got a sad face, but when I tell you what it is, you won't feel that sympathetic. No, because I remember, I remember how when you're pregnant and the hormones be flying, you just feel things a lot more deeply. And I'm glad you said flying. It is about something that flies. So I got really, most, I got really upset about butterflies. Because there were these butterflies in my yard. And I was sitting there with Ben and I was like, aren't they just so beautiful? And then I started to think, what a shame.

They only live for two weeks, max. A butterfly spends months. Like the process of creation for a butterfly, that thing is working its ass off. It's got the metamorphosis. It's hanging from trees. It's crystallizing. It's turning to caterpillars. Like, that thing is going through the rounds.

and then it gets here and it lives for seven to 14 days. I said to Benny something, I was like, I had tears and I said something wrong with me. And it's like, I think it's the baby. He's like, I don't understand why you're so upset. I do think if you're crying about butterflies on a Sunday afternoon, you probably need a nap. But honestly, think about it. Imagine how much effort you've put in to get here and then you know you get like one week on earth. I don't know if they have sentient brains to realize that they've only got one week on earth.

I think they do. Okay. Yep. Can I tell you a fact, I mean, now that we're here, a butterfly fact. So I recently did a, sorry, Marley recently did an assignment, which means I recently did an assignment. I recently did a PhD for mine. I recently did my child's assignment. No, I helped her with an assignment on butterflies. And I didn't know this, but you know when caterpillars are in a cocoon? They do this thing and it's called partial dissolution. And it basically means that they basically turn to liquid. inside, like their whole body breaks down into like a liquid jelly and then it reforms into a butterfly. That's pretty fucking cool. Oh, see, now you're on board with the butterfly chat. You weren't 10 minutes ago. Look, big weekend though, some things to update everyone on. Actually, before we go into our weekends, we do have something very exciting to share with you. We are doing a in conversation. It's a very intimate event. We are doing our first one. We might roll

these out a little bit more, but we're going to just like feel it and see how it goes. We're testing the waters. We're doing in. conversation space came up we said we'll take it and you know what it's because like we know that we've been teasing doing live shows doing a live show as big as the one that we did three years ago felt like a enormous task to kind of do especially at the moment britt's pregnant me with the three kids i was like i don't know how we're going to do something that big but we're doing it in conversation it's in sydney for the first one and our tickets dun dun dun dun dunn done are going on sale very soon and what we are doing because it is extremely limited numbers we

have reserved a certain amount of tickets which we're going to put on pre-sale first on Patreon. So there'll be 24 hours to buy the reserved tickets which are on Patreon and then the rest of them will go live 24 hours later. So that's happening on Thursday. But what I will say is because it is more of an intimate conversation, tickets are going to go really quickly. Really quick. Yeah, it'll start. I don't want to stress anyone out. But if you guys want to come, set your alarms. Set your alarms. Set your alarms. Sign up to Patreon. No, you don't have to sign up to Patreon. But if you want to, you also can. This is a very intimate small crowd. You'll feel like you're touching each other. We'll come and touch every single one of you. Unless you tell me not to touch

you, I'll touch you all. Imagine coming and being part of like a relatively similar to a live podcast recording with us. Yes. It's just your two best friends hanging out together. We'll all be here. So we'll be there. The team will be there. The plan with this is when I say we're going to be putting this on Patreon, if you are subscribed to Patreon, you will get first dibs at a reservation of tickets. So like we said, there's a reserve that's been set aside. Go and sign up to Patreon. That is where you get you more from. Or the rest of the tickets that we have allocated will go live on Friday. So it's 10am on Patreon on Thursday and 10 a.m. Friday for the rest and the remainder of the tickets. And then if it goes well, we may just roll out these in conversations.

More broadly. Worldwide. Worldwide. Okay. Well, it's time to talk about something that might hurt Laura's feelings a little bit. Hillary Duff. I'm sorry, Laura. Hillary Duff did perform on the weekend. Thank you for reminding me. Laura chose a girls' weekend, which is fine. I sold a kidney to get you a last minute ticket. Don't you dare. Do not.

How dare you? I also can't claim that. Keisha sold her kidney to get you a ticket because she's felt back. She's felt guilty for 12 months. So you guys might remember this. I desperately, this is literally a year ago, desperately wanted to go to Hillary Duff. And we were talking about on one of the ask gun cuts,

It was all around like if you were going to get tickets to a concert with your friends, where does your loyalty lie? Because if another friend was able to get a ticket for you, are you able to abandon the group that you were originally going to go with if you can get a ticket elsewhere? And I was like, you know what, it's fine. You know, when it comes to tickets, it's all everyone's for themselves. Like the hunger games.

Yeah, and then it turned out actually, Brittany and Keisha, the two of these, they'd fucking go on and got tickets to Hillary Duff. Don't you throw me in this? And did not include me. This is the story. I had gotten Keisha multiple tickets over the years to concerts because when you're working radio, you're very, very lucky that sometimes they'll have spares and they'll offer you a ticket, right? So I always had tickets.

Laura always had a choice, but often with a newborn baby attached to her breast for 5,000 years, she couldn't go to the shows. So Keisha always was able to come. I gave my ticket away to her. Selflessly. Not all heroes were Cape. She should thank me. But anyway, Kilarie Duff, I didn't realize would be such hot property.

I knew people loved her from growing up and Lizzie McGuire, but she hasn't really. release music in 20 years until this year. But apparently it was like a fight to the death to get tickets. Resales, lining up, ticket checks, site crashes. Anyway, Keisha managed to wrangle two tickets, gave one to me because she felt like she owed me back. But she, a week ago, managed to find an extra ticket because she's felt guilty for a year for Laura. But Laura had already made other plans because I did get a lot of DM saying pretty nasty ones, being like, oh, so you didn't invite Laura? And I was like, actually, thanks guys. Thanks, life is. Actually, we did, and Laura chose a Girl's Weekend.

Daily Mail is going to come out with Britain and Laura fighting as they were not seen at Hillary Duff together. I do want to kind of talk about that for a second because you said, you know, Hillary Duff's released some new music this year. It's why she's touring. And maybe you guys can tell me that I'm wrong. I'm not sure who is listening to her or is super into her new music. But I feel as though it is totally the nostalgia effect. Like we, there is some artists that take you back to another place to another time. There is this real girlhood that's associated.

with it. And for me, that's what Hillary Duff is. It is like stepping into a time warp of a time that felt simpler. It felt like fun and jovial and just like that it's the nostalgia impact. When I was going to the concert, I would have said heavily it was for nostalgia, like a lot of people. That's where I would have thought. And then when I went to the concert and I realized how many absolute super fans were there, I thought, okay, it's not just nostalgia for a lot of people. There are a lot of people here that are just absolutely massive fans. But what I will say is her concert was, she lent into the nostalgia. It was the whole thing. So she did these pieces on stage where she wore these really old retro shirts, like Furby shirts. She was sitting on a lounge,

like she was having a sleepover. She was trying to bring you into this world while her old video cam recordings of growing up was playing. But then it would flash to her now. So it was this like this pull between what we all felt when we were like 13, 14, 15 and now where we all are, which is having kids and things like that. So I think it was a really, a really, really nice moment for people to see the evolution of Hillary Duff. But let's talk about the evolution. I don't know if you've listened to her new album. And I personally, as much as I loved it, I found some of it awkward because I couldn't

get past 15-year-old Hillary Duff. So the music is very much trying to say, like, I've grown up, I am a woman. The lyrics are very sexually driven about giving blow jobs in bars, about touching yourself to porn at the front door in front of her partner. And, yeah, like really, really, like explicit. in terms of not explicit, like, let's fuck pussy bitch wet. Like, it's not like, it's not like Nikki Minaj combined. There were moments like that where I was like, wow, like you're not Lizzie anymore, you're

Hillary. And she was really trying to draw that line. So it was a really interesting concert. Maybe it's the juxtaposition then. I mean, I wasn't at the concert, but maybe the thing that if you're not someone who has been super familiar with her new music, the thing that feels a little bit like throws you into a bit of a spin with that is the fact that part of the concert is, is, is, It's based in the nostalgia.

It's based in the girlhood. And then it's like instantly flips into this. Oh, actually, we're not talking about girlhood anymore. We're now talking about womanhood. Oh, no, it was whiplash because it was like, so yesterday. Porn, touching sex yesterday. And I was like, wow, what era am I in? But she was, I loved it.

It was really great. I had a very similar feeling. And I think it's like the chasing of nostalgia when I went to Blink 18, 18, 18, 19, to blink one night two I would have been like 18, 19, early 20s, you know, I dated a boy who was like a little bit emo, but not totally. He was like a skater. He was a bit skater boy, right? Like you would have a little emo face? I never had an emo face, but I loved an emo boy. I loved like a skater boy. The thing with that is, is when I went to the concert, like it was, it just took me back to a simpler time, to the nostalgia of it. Like, I knew every lyric. I knew every song. I was just so genuinely,

deeply happy. And what I also loved about it is that the whole band understood, they understood the assignment. Like, they no longer took themselves seriously. And when I went to their concert, when I was in my, you know, 17, 18, it was so serious. Like, they lived and breathed being skater emo guys. And, you know, the part that was really funny about it is, like, Tom, who's the lead singer? Like, he got up on stage and everyone's obviously singing along to the songs. And he's like, call your mom. Tell him you're an emo. Tell her it wasn't a phase. Like, It was so funny because it's just all of these 40-year-old moms and dads who are very evidently not emo, who were singing along to the music.

I fucking loved it. I also think it's why, like, if Spice Girls ever got back and did a tour, it's just that, taking you back to that moment of time where we were so obsessed, we all had the posters. It's just, it's fun to relive at shit. You just realize how old we are now, too. That's what I, I was like, oh, she's like, I haven't released music in 20 years. And I was doing the math. And I was like, oh, we're pretty old.

I was like, how old is I? Well, look, I did have a very different weekend. I went away with six girlfriends and I have a vibe of the week and I know that this is not the episode that you're supposed to have a vibe to. You're sure you want to use it now? The vibe. I'm going to blow my load of a vibe. Yes. Because it's not, it's not like a read a book or something. It is get the girls weekend out of your group chat. I have not had that much fun in so long. Well, I'm not offended. We missed you. We missed you.

Do you know why? Do you know why it was so far? No, shut up. It would have been better if you were there. But it was like, you know, back in the day, I don't know. Like you'd get together and like there was always like a lot of drinking that was involved. Like that was like a main part of, I guess, like catching up with friends. There was hardly any drinking in this.

It was just we cooked great food. We laughed our asses off. Some of the dumb shit that we were doing. We did this one thing where everyone had to do a interpretive dance to a song. and perform it for the other. Still I thought this weekend way was going. It was so funny. Like to the point where I don't think I've laughed that hard in years and years.

And then we did other things. Like we had little competition games where I don't know. Have you seen them on Instagram where you just film your friend running at full pace? Like no one's ever seen what their girlfriend looks like running and sprinting at full pace. It's hilarious. Honestly, it was just an afternoon of deep, soulful, soul healing belly laughs. And everyone went to bed that night and was like, that was possibly one of the best days we've ever had. So it was really good.

And I think, like, you can often talk about planning the trip to go away with your girlfriends. It feels so hard to get everyone together. You know, we've all got busy schedules. And it almost didn't happen because this month is a chaotic month of work. I don't know. It was one of those things where I was like, I'm just so glad that we made the time for it. And I think everyone is going to be better for it. I genuinely love that for you.

If I had more friends, I'd do that. You come the next one. But you're at Hillary Dahl. My weekend was really different. And I just have a question because this is. all I've been thinking about for the weekend. And it's not as cute or nostalgic or fun. But like, do you guys find whistling really creepy? Whistling? Sorry. Okay. I was, okay. Just hear me out just real quickly. We need some context. Do you know,

I will give you this though. So I wasn't there for the Coke chat, but so many people, so many of the lifers were there for the Coke Zero chat. So I'm all about it. Thank you. Okay. Well, off the top of my head, generally speaking, I don't find it creepy. Okay. So you think that right? Like whistling is supposed to be this really, You know, it's happy. It's like you whistle along to a song. It's cute. It's whimsy.

I'm sitting on the bus and it's packed. Everyone's in it. And it's dead silent as it always is in the bus. And some guy just starts whistling in the silent bus and he doesn't stop. And I felt while you're off gallivanting to Hillary Duff and running with your friends, I'm thinking, I'm about to get murdered because it feels like a horror movie. It's ominous. Now imagine you're sitting on a bus in silence. You don't know who it's coming from.

You don't know which man is doing this. You know it's a man because it's creepy. And it's just, it's just whistling on the bus. And in my brain, I went, I thought whistling was cute and fun. It's not. I think it's always creepy. Do you know what? You really did nail that.

I could never see a woman just being on a bus thinking it's socially normal to whistle. To whistle. That is definitely only a guy doing that. Yeah. But there's also nothing wrong with whistling. I grew up in a whistling family. So I don't, it doesn't creep me out. The only thing I can say about whistling, though, is for me, going back to the nostalgia

point, my grandfather used to whistle all the time. And so he would pick me up for swimming training really early in the morning. So I don't see it as so ominous. Okay. But every time he would arrive, he would always do this, he'd go, and there's a bird that does the same noise and it always reminds me of my grandfather. Okay, so you just took it really cute. But maybe it's situational.

Yeah. I would like to know the best and worst situations to whistle. Chug on the Facebook group, if you have been an ominous situation. Because to me, that's really turned me off whistling for life. Like if it's dark at nighttime, someone's just walking through your house whistling. Yeah, I think the situation and context is important. All right, next thing is a little bit of a fun thing that's happening that's really only happening to Brittany.

It's happening to Life Uncutt, but Brittany is the only one that gets to experience the funness. Yeah, I don't think we're going to tell you what it is yet. I think we're going to Surprise it. But I'm going to New York for work-related Life Uncutt business. So I will be on a plane when you're listening to this, basically, if you listen on the day of release. So tomorrow morning, I'm on a plane to New York. a very long flight, I might say. It is. We were both supposed to go together and then I

remembered I have three children. Which I was like, what's your point? No, I raised it with Matt. And look, it is a really fun thing. And I wish I was able to go realistically. It's a trying to fly to New York and get that done within like a space of five days. It takes like two days to get there, two days to get back. It would have just been way too much to try and do it. So instead, Brits going for two weeks. No, she's going for a week and a half. I'm going for 10 days. I was like, if I'm going and I'm going. It is going to be so exciting. though, if you are like a long-time lifer, I will say just what you two have achieved this year and in the last little while has just been phenomenal.

And I think this is one of those icing on the cake, cherry on the top, moments that you deserve so much. So keep an eye out on socials. You will see why Brit is in New York. I'm so excited for you. Beyonce invited me back. I'll just tell you. It's Beyonce.

There is a question that's gotten a little bit heated across social media this week or Actually, it was last week, but I digress. And it's all about paternity leave. Now, hear me out. Paternity leave is basically having time off when you get a pet. So there was a woman in the States who contacted her work, and she asked for eight weeks paid paternity leave because she was getting a new puppy, and she wanted time to spend at home to bond with them.

Which I understand. Okay. No, I understand. I understand. I understand. I understand. I understand. to bond with your property. Yes, I understand. I understand. She's asked for paid paternity leave.

The employment, her work has come back and said, no, I'm sorry, we're not going to be able to honor eight weeks. She called it maternity leave, mind you. We're not going to be able to honor eight weeks maternity leave for a dog. And the response to that was that she was going to take them for discrimination. Now, Jonesy and Amanda actually spoke about this on their radio show and it was clipped for socials. The comments. It was, I couldn't believe. how, firstly, how engaged people were with this conversation, but how mixed the comments were to this and how, I guess when I first heard it, I was like, oh my God, this is absolutely outrageous and ridiculous.

And now when I say that, I do not want anyone who has a dog, who sees a dog as their family member to think that I'm invalidating the experience of that. I'm not. I have a dog. I love him to death. He was my first child. But when I saw the comments in the thread, I was shocked by how much people were saying. that having a dog should be seen as the same as having a child.

Well, she went on to say, this was her case. Hey, I wake up every two hours. I'm getting no sleep. I'm leaving every challenge of a new mum. So she's trying to say, like, if I'm still not sleeping and the puppy needs to wee at night and whatever else, like I have the same sleep deficiency as a new mom. But then she also went on to say that she had fertility issues, fertility struggles. And so she has made the choice to become dog mum instead.

And I think that's probably what made the internet more divisive in the comments. because overall, looking at this, I think it's absolutely ludicrous to expect that every employer gives eight weeks of paid leave to care for an animal. Having said that, I understand it is really hard when you get a new pet to go to work for eight or nine hours a day. It is hard, but I think that's something that people need to consider when they get a new pet. I know there are some companies, so CBA in Australia, the Commonwealth Bank, they give two days

leave for like a pet emergency, if they're sick or something like that, pet bereavement. And I do think even today that we're coming so handy. So this morning I had to drop Delilah off for an operation. So she's having an operation today. And I'm lucky that Benny's here right now because if he wasn't, I don't know what I would have done. And of course it's my own business and I could change the days around if I absolutely had to. I'm very lucky. But it made me think more about it today because I thought, oh, I actually could have done with being home for her when she comes out of anesthetic, making sure she's okay, looking after her, et cetera, et cetera. So I understand that people need that in their life, and I understand that pets are family.

I understand that more than anything. But eight weeks on your employer of paid leave is crazily excessive. Yeah, and I think, look, I want to be really careful with this because I understand when you bring in the conversation around infertility, how it changes people's perceptions. It is incredibly emotionally heated. She signed off the email saying, thanking them for respecting her quote unquote, quote, journey into motherhood. I absolutely understand that for some people who either make the choice or who have gone through fertility issues or who are simply like choosing to be child free

that a dog and their dog specifically is like the equivalent to having a child, you know, it is they pour the same amount of love and energy and time and all of that into it. I absolutely understand it. And so like I do believe that there should be some allowances. If you are a company that can afford and can give a couple of days off for having a new puppy or having a new dog. Like, I absolutely think that that is an incredible thing that a company can do. But I don't think that it is justifiable. And I actually don't think it helps anyone by trying to identify and say that it is the same as bringing home a newborn baby.

Normally, I look at these sorts of things. And I think if it takes nothing away from, you know, the experience of one person to allow someone else to have or to say that they have the same experience, then why? Why are we fighting over it? You know what I mean? Like if I were to say I'm a dog mum, that doesn't take anything away from you being a kid mom. Exactly. Like I'm not offended by that. That doesn't, do you know what I mean? But like that to me, it's like, why would you fight that? It doesn't, it doesn't affect or offend me in any way. However, if you are saying that your experience of having a puppy is the same as the experience of a person who has a newborn baby, I would say like

that is an incomparable experience. And I think it's actually offensive to try and say that it is the same experience. I absolutely think, yeah, sure, you're probably waking up every two hours. But the responsibility and the burden of having, I shouldn't call it a burden, but of a newborn baby, you can't leave that baby at home ever. The burden of responsibility is incomparably harder with a human child than what it is with a dog. In the bid to try and find, quote, unquote, equality in this, I actually think it takes away from the motherhood experience of raising and having to deal with having a newborn baby. The problem is, though, it is, all relative. So if you have never had a child, for whatever reason, not able to, chose not to,

if you haven't lived the experience, as somebody that is in that, I understand why you say you love and treat your pet like a mom would, because I do the same, right? There is nothing I wouldn't do for that dog. She lives the best life. I think the reason people are offended with this is there, there were people in the comments saying, okay, cool, I had a major operation and had a C-section. I was cut through eight layers of tissue. Then I had to keep my child alive and I only got six weeks and you're asking for longer for a puppy. I think that's where it's offending people because it's not relatable. It's not that you're saying I love my pet so much and I want to take care of it. It's that you're saying that you deserve more than somebody that's gone

through a major operation. I think that's why people are so offended. And also loads of it experts came out and said, hey, actually, you only really need five to seven days to settle a puppy. So maybe that would be a meat in the middle. Maybe there's like a week's leave that you could take or I don't, I don't know what the answer is. But I think if all of our staff came to us and expected eight weeks for a puppy would have no one here. Yeah. And would be broke. I think the issue is she has gone down this route saying, well, this is the only way I can get leave is by comparing myself to maternity leave, which is what everyone's fired up. But like if you do look at, say here in Australia, what our leave types are, for something like personal careers leave, which is caring for a family

member, pets do not count. So you can't use any of your personal leave. You also can't use your compassionate leave or your bereavement leave because in law, none of that applies to an animal. But in 2025, the family law changed and considered a pet as more than property. So you've got one law saying, yep, your pet is a family. But then all of the laws on working leave is saying, no, you can't use that for any of your pet. So what people are left with is going, well, I'm going to have to use my annual leave. Yeah. But it doesn't feel fair because if you need to drop your your kid off or go to a school concert, you'll take personal carers leave. Or if your kid is sick or someone, you know, you can have those. Oh, I absolutely agree. And I think in those instances, like,

there has to be some middle ground, right? But I don't think the middle ground is saying that it's the same as having a human baby. I think there's ways that you can bring in more leave or more access to leave that allows for parity. But just because something is the same doesn't make it equal. So for example, we talked about DISH recently and DISH have brought in a new parenting scheme. So basically new mothers are entitled to extra leave. And it's not just new moms. It's like if you have kids up into the age of 12 or something, you can have extra leave for like doctor's appointments or running them around. And people were saying like that's unfair for those who don't have children. Like moms and dads are not using this leave as a holiday. They're using it to go to a doctor's appointment. And I think

where people got fired up from it isn't just necessarily because they want to go to a Pilates class or, you know, have a latte. It's because what if they're caring for a grandparent or they're caring for their mom? I don't know. I think there has to be a line that's drawn somewhere. I do not think we have a perfect solution. And I do think that pets should be considered in some way when it comes to leave. But I definitely do not think that it is fair to expect businesses or to expect individuals to take on the responsibility and saying that it's equivalent to having a baby. It's just not. It's not. I love what Italy has done. And I spoke about this when I moved to Italy. remember that time, guys, where I moved there and moved back

like four months later. So when we had a farewell for you and you went to Italy for five week holiday. And then I was like, hey guys, guess what? I'm back. So, but we spoke about it on the podcast, if you might remember, because I was thrilled about it. Italy is such like a dog-driven and dog-loving country. But they made pets family by law

and they will give three to four days of pet sick leave, emergency care leave, whatever it is that you need for your pet. And it's paid. And I think that's a really good sort of meat in the middle. The other thing that I think really important to note is I think bereavement leave, like the CBA, like I said before, I'm sure there are loads of other companies that do are probably big conglomerates because they

have so much more money, but they give two days bereavement leave, which I think is amazing. Like it might not seem like two days as much, but when you lose a pet, it is like losing a limb. Like it is like losing a family member. If you've had that pet for 100%. I mean, even if you've had it for a year, but if you've had a pet for 10 or 15 years, it might have been with you your whole adult life. It might have seen you through like all the hard moments. I have lost pets in the past, but I feel like it would be very different to if I lost Delilah now. I would not be whole. I would not be okay. That's a really nice meet in the

middle for some companies if they can. But that's why I think it needs to be a revamp of what leave already is to include. Yeah, to include pets as family. Because I think that's the issue. Yes, having a puppy is not having a baby, but having a dog is having a family member. I agree. I truly I agree. And I just think that there is no world or law or even thought at the moment to include pets and family. It's like not a common thing in business. Do you think so?

It needs to change. No, but it's an interesting. I think she's about to ask for a, I think she's getting a dog. I think she's about to ask for eight weeks pet leave. Well, because I fostered dogs and I fostered a dog earlier this year. And the love I have from that thing is incomparable. I genuinely have never felt more loved cared having that dog. And I worked around it.

But yeah, one day he was incredibly, incredibly sick, and I was at a different job. And there was no way in the world I thought I could ask to have the day because he was sick. But I thought about it and I was like, if my partner was sick, if my mom was sick, I would happily go to my boss and be like, oh, person's sick. Can I use personal leave or carers leave? Yeah. But it's just not common and it's not accepted to do that for pets. Yeah. I think that there is a gap.

And that is probably, I think you've articulated it perfectly. There's a gap and that is why people feel angry. But I just don't think it's fair to think that the gap is equating to a human child. And maybe that's where I sometimes get annoyed and I know that I can only talk for my own experience. And I absolutely, I know that there will be people who listen to me speak and you guys have pets who are your chosen children. And I understand that you will be like, you don't know what it's like. And I only say this from my own personal experience. I have Buster.

He is my number one child. He does everything with me. He's my baby boy, right? And then I had human children and I understand the burden of responsibility that I have to ensure everything about their life is just so much more intrinsically harder. I think that that's why I get infuriated when it's like it's comparable because I'm not saying that your love is not comparable. I absolutely, I'm not invalidating the love.

I absolutely understand that. The psychological responsibility that I have to these children, like I don't wake up in the morning and think, God, am I going to fuck back? up. Like, am I going to be paying for his therapy? But I think that stuff with my children, I'm constantly going through how am I showing up in their lives and how am I ensuring that I'm like educating them and creating like kids that understand consent and there's just so much to think about. And that's the thing with having a newborn. That is on absolute steroids when you have a newborn baby. It's the first time for a lot of people that they're actually doing it. They are

adjusting to a whole new world of having a baby in their lives that is solely dependent on them for everything. To wrap it up, I do agree that there has to be a meat in the middle of a couple of days here or there maybe, but this eight weeks of full paid maternity leave, there's sometimes more that is available to moms that have birthed a human child. It's crazy. It's just crazy. The very last thing I want to add to this, and I think it comes down to the conversation around discrimination. I think it's very easy to throw out discrimination these days when discrimination has not played a part in it. Just because something is not equal doesn't mean that it is discrimination. If you're having an experience and you are entitled to different

benefits, it could be because culturally, socially, you have and need more access or need more help. And so, like, I understand that if there's a fertility element to this, there is a conversation around what feels fair, but that doesn't necessarily mean equal. And we've seen it recently. There's a whole sub, I'm not saying this is the same guys. I'm just using it as a comparison. But there's, there are literally white middle-aged men out there who are claiming. discrimination because they don't have the same access or availability or opportunities in jobs because of there being a review in the way that some companies are employing people. And so there aren't as many available jobs.

That's not discrimination. But so I guess it's one of those things where I'm like, just because someone says that they feel as though they're experiencing something, it doesn't actually necessarily make it true. And in this instance, I understand that it is high emotional stakes around fertility, but I would not call the lack of access to maternity leave discrimination. I feel like we've spoken about Victoria's Secrets a little bit lately because the show was on last week, but I do want to talk about them a little bit more. Now, bear with me, this is some spicy Victoria's Secrets tea that's

going down. It launches a broader question of can you date a friend's ex or a friend's situation or a friend's ex-husband. Now, I imagine the Victoria's Secrets world, and I always have as like every angel is really close, like really tight. No way. Well, you see all the backstage stuff and I've followed a few Victoria Secrets models for years. You know when you follow someone 10 years ago and you just don't ever unfollow them? So I feel like I've seen them pop up in my feed.

There's a bunch of them that are really close friends. Like you always see them out together. I don't know. I just always thought if you're an angel, you're part of the club. You're like, it's a girlhood. Do you know what? I reckon there are groups of them that are friends and there would be groups of them that hate each other, like in any kind of, you know, I mean, it's like a work situation where there's

like, which one of you hates me and which one of you likes me? You're not a personal. No, I don't know. I just think that there's going to be people that don't like each other in that instance. So something has gone down this last couple of weeks. Tom Brady and Giselle Bunchin. They are, Tom Brady's the very famous NFL player. Jiselle was a very famous Victoria Secrets model. They split up a couple of years ago. They were married for a very long time. Two kids, I think. Two or three kids. She ended up, leaving him and she went and got married to her jiu-jitsu teacher. That's a hot. I remember that.

The jihitsu teacher. Well, the scandal. And now they're happily married as well. And they had another baby. But that's not what the story's about. Imagine. Imagine, Jazele Bunchen leaving her husband and you're just the jiu-jitsu all the two. Anyway, we're not talking about that. Well, we can.

He's really hot. So he's really good looking. And also, when I was single, I took up jiu-jitsu. To find an instructor? Just to, no. Have you seen all you do is roll around with men? It's like if you want to, sorry, anyone listening right now, this is my Vibbe vibe. If you.

We need to stop calling Vibes. Okay. This is my vibe. If you were single, I remember signing up to Jiu-Jitsu because it's all that wrestling work. So like you've got, I'm not kidding. You've got legs around each other's heads because you need to be able to pin them down. And it's like very sweaty. It can be very sexy.

It can also be very professional and unsexy. I thought it was her kids jiu-jitsu teacher, not hers. No, she's a really good at Jiu-Jitsu. Okay, turns out she got into chudis soup. Anyway, that's not what we're talking about. We digress. We're talking about Tom Brady dating every single Victoria's Secret Angels that's possibly ever existed. Okay, so there's been a bit of an argument happening online between two Victoria's Secret's Angels.

So Candace Swanapole and Joan Smalls, they have been friends for 15 years. They were like tight VS angel friends. Rumor has it a couple of years ago, Joan Smalls was linked to Tom Brady. The rumor is that Candace at the time said, hey, just be careful. Like, this is our friends or another Victoria's Secret Angel of X, like, you know, enter with care. Well, now it has been released that Candace herself is apparently in a relationship with Tom Brady and has been for quite a while. Tom Brady really has a type, doesn't he? Yeah, supermodal.

So part of it, I want to get into what is happening online because Jones Malls has publicly called out and, like, pretty much annihilated Candace Swanpole on a comment on Instagram, which has been, she deleted it. But, you know, once you've posted something on Instagram, it just goes viral. And I think there's another broader conversation about Tom Brady and just dipping your finger in the same pie over and over and over again. And where's the line? Because all these women are friends. He's been married to one. Well, it's not really the same pie as it. If it was the same person, it'd be the same pie.

But he's just dipping it in the same pie shop. Ah, yes. That's what he's doing. The Victoria's Secret Pie Shop is trying all the pies from his favorite pie shop. So I want to read you the comment that Jones Smalls public. wrote on this Instagram. They unfolded each other and somebody said, what's happened? Why aren't they friends? And Joan commented and said, I'm not friends with backstabbers. She then went on to say, there is no girl code with some people and the disrespect and carelessness in how they treat you is so

unimaginable. There's no going back. Some people lack humility and moral compass. And the way they gaslight, lie and minimise your feelings is the worst slap in the face after 15 years of friendship. not a sorry said or written onwards and upwards. I have questions and feelings because if Joan did briefly date Tom Brady and she's so upset that Candace is now dating him, but why was it okay for Joan to date him after he was married to their other friend, Giselle? Like is it not the same. Yeah, totally, which is also what makes me question the legitimacy of any of this.

Like so much of it is rumours. Obviously we know that they've had a falling out. Do we know it's because of Tom Brady? Do we know what the situation is there? Also in that how close is Giselle and Joan in the first place? You know, like, I think that the problem with these types of stories is that there's so many blanks that are filled by people trying to uncover what is the truth. And I guess like the bigger question is around girl code and it is around whether or not you

can or can't date your friend's ex. What is the rules? What is the girl code there? Is it completely out of bounds? Is it only out of bounds for a period? Like, what does that then look like? What do you guys think about that? Because you both have beautiful husbands, pretend this was a world that that didn't exist.

Would you date a friend's ex? I think for me personally, happy, married, got three kids, any of my friends could now date any of my exes. I could not care at all. Really? I would say, good luck. Bon voyage. I hope that they've improved.

Like, you can date my exes now. I don't care. I think it feels very, very different when there is still an emotional pool. You're not over them. you are single yourself. So like if you're single and you're wanting to be in a relationship, but that relationship didn't work out. Or if the friend knows and as part of like the intricacies of your relationship, there's a real betrayal when you have confided in your friends what's gone wrong in your relationship to then find out that they're showing some interest in your ex.

Like would I ever date a friend's ex? No, I wouldn't. It's totally not something I would ever want for myself or want for my friendship. But I think in my instance where I'm, I am in life now, I don't think I would, because the history is now a decade behind me, I think it's the proximity to the distance now for me that I'm like, I wouldn't care. Well, I also wonder, so I'm just really trying to map this out. Joan Smalls and Giselle were Victoria's Secret Angels together for like 10 years. So even if you are not tight, tight, you've worked with this person in some kind of close proximity for a really long time.

And Giselle was married to Tom for 13 years. I think that's fine. I think if you're not that close friends, like there are 15, there would there be like 30 angels? If one of them dates someone, you're not that close friends with them. Yeah, you all work together and that ends. Fair game. Fair play.

If you have never had dinner with that person or sat there one or one with a coffee, fair play. You know the thing that's pissed me off, though. I want to say this. The conversation has all been around. Oh, how are these women? The women. Yeah. How are these women all dating the same guy, go somewhere else?

If this was reversed and one of them, so if Kempusel, Candace Swanapole went and dated four, five, six people from Tom's NFL team. Imagine the onslaught of horrific names that she would be called. And the reporting would be so drastically different. Totally. It's always censored around the woman. But it's like, oh, Tom, like, you know, that's what the vibe is. Who could blame him?

He likes Victoria's Secret models. Look, I think that overarchingly, 99.9% of people who are listening to this are going to be like, don't date your friend's exes. Like no one is going to find a situation where that is comfortable. You also have to question, I mean, like, I would love to know from you guys, like, who has experienced a friend dating your ex or maybe you dated your friend's ex. Depending on how close the friendship is and how close the proximity is to the relationship that they had, the thing is, you're making a choice.

You can't have both. Like, you can't go forward and have the same friendship when you're dating their ex. And you can't go forward in the relationship with them and just assume, that like you're all going to hang out and have dinners and be lovely together. Like you are making a choice and you are deciding on which relationship is more important for you to pursue. And I think that that's where a deep friendship betrayal can sit sometimes. It's like, oh, you made a choice to date someone that you knew I loved, you knew I cared about,

you knew I have a history with. And now you've deprioritized our friendship because of it. You can't help who you fall in love with. Oh, you can. I agree with that. But you can help who you fall in love with. I hate that. No, you can't. Love is love, but you can fish in a different pond.

I hate, sorry, do you know why I hate that? Because then, okay, what if I fell in love with Ben and I ran away and had an affair? Can't help but I fall in love with. You can't help who you're attracted to. I'm not attracted to. You can't help who you fall in love with. You absolutely can help who you pursue. Every single one of those, those, like anything that happens after the attraction is a decision. But what if, what if, because I know there are people out there like this, what? I agree with you. It's a decision to get close to that person for sure. But what if they then go on to be married for 50 years because they were soulmates? What if they were just more suited than the people that were originally together for one or two years? Totally. And there are people that will make that decision. But that doesn't mean that they made the decision of the relationship, as in the romantic relationship, over prioritising the friendship. And I think at the end of the day,

that is the big decision that people are making. If you are pursuing someone's ex and you were a close friend with them, then what you were doing is you were going, what's more important to me, the potential of this romantic relationship or the foundation of the friendship that I've built? Okay, I've got a question, because in this situation, it is not an official X. It is a potential situation ship, maybe just like a slept with a couple of times. Does that change it? So say you had a bit of fun, sleep with the sky, you're like, oh, it's fun. We didn't end up together. And then your friend was like, well, I'm now going to see him. It was never really an ex.

You kind of just sleep with him. I'm really into him. It's how long a piece of string? Every situation is different. I mean, Britt's dated one of a guy I dated. Yeah, but you didn't have sex with him and not. I tried to. I know.

I know. But we proper dated. Totally. But I didn't know that when I dated him. So then how did you feel, Laura, when you found out Britt was dating the same person that you? She's like, huh? No. No, he was so nice.

He was such a nice guy. I was like, go for gold. I think it comes down to emotional investment. The problem is, is like, you know, I wasn't emotionally invested in him, so therefore it's fine. Like I was like, I hope that he ends up being amazing for you. That's great. Go for gold. But in other situations, you might date someone casually for a period of time, but you might

be incredibly emotionally invested in that person. You might have wanted so much more for the potential of that relationship. And who do you confide in about that, your friend? So I think it also, if you have been very honest about your feelings for someone to your friend, even if that relationship wasn't more solidified, even if there wasn't more of it, if your friend knows about the emotional investment, if they know how much you cared, and then that relationship doesn't work out and they pursue that person, that's the betrayal, right? But if they're not aware that you're emotionally invested, if they had no clue about any of it,

then I'm like, you can't really hold it against them if they also then go and pursue. I don't think it's completely black and white out of bounds, but I think it is for most people a very dark grey area. I'm going to finish with a little story. Here we go. This is this situation, but it's a very immature version of this situation. So when I was my first ever, you know your first ever love, like everyone has it, that love that hits different. The first person you're in a proper relationship with you fall in love with, I was 15, 16, and it was my first boyfriend. I just thought that that was a person I was going to marry. Like I was so obsessed with him. And I remember when he broke up with me, I remember my mom coming into my room and I was beside myself. And in hindsight,

she must, it must be really hard for parents in that moment because they must want to giggle and be like, if only you knew what lays ahead. But I remember saying, I'm never going to meet anyone again. Like, that's my, that was my person. And I was 16, 15, 16. Anyway, so fast forward, my friend was in a proper relationship him, but it was like an adult relationship. So they got together, I think, maybe 19, 20 for a couple of years. And I'm talking friends like I was her bridesmaid. We are still, she'll listen to this episode, shout out. But she's a really good, yeah, she's a really good friend.

I see her all the time. She's amazing. And I actually lived with her in Sydney when we both moved to Sydney. So we were proper friends and she dated him seriously. And I remember having this feeling of like, well, this is weird because I loved him. And like, but I loved him as a 15 year old. It's not the same. So as much as I can say, it didn't change our friendship.

There were very different relationships. She had an adult relationship with him. I have an instance of this as well in my life, but I was the person who was in the wrong, right? So I'm joking. So I was in my late 20s. I had a really, like one of my best friends, she had a group of friends that were separate to me, but we would sometimes do things together, right? So like, she was the, she was the conduit between the friends. Anyway, she had a girlfriend in that group and she was married to a guy. I met them a handful of

times. It wasn't like we were super close, but we would go out and we would party together every so often. And we went in the same circles. Yeah, we ran in the same circles, but we were not, we would never hang out one on one. We never called each other. We never texted each other. Like, I didn't know her on that level, but if we were going out, we were all in the same group, but extended group. We went to Ibitha together for a week, right? That's the closest that we got. I've never heard an I-beattha story from you. Maybe that's for another time. I went to Ibitha for a week, got robbed. We must talk about that next time. We must. Everyone jump on Patreon.

So we went to Ibitha together. I went with my girlfriend and her husband, and then that group of friends was there as well. And we spent three nights in the same accommodation together. Anyway, they got married. About six months after they got married, they got separated. And I got a message from him. And he was like, hey, like, how you been? I'm going to be around your area. Anyway, we went for like a dog walk or something, which I thought was just as friends at the time.

Anyway, when I had a dinner, it was never friends. Yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't friends. It's never. I thought we were just friends. He said, can I see your boobies? And I thought he would feel like me and I thought we were just friends. So we went out on date. she found out through my friend and she was furious she was like I fucking hate that bitch like she

hated me and I was like oh okay I mean I understand why you're angry but I did not rethink I had done that much wrong because of the distance between our friendship we weren't friends we were just in the same circle yeah but I guess you bonded over a week in Abitha yeah that it's different I think if you spent I'm not different like I'm not saying you did the wrong thing but I think she probably, if you didn't spend a week together, maybe she would have been... We spent three nights, we didn't spend a week. That's still. Oh, fucking play on.

Sorry, that's the difference between three nights and seven nights. And that is the line. Guys, that is it for today. Hey, please remember, we are dropping tickets on Patreon for 24 hours only to our In Conversation show. All of the sign up details will be in the show notes. You can go on our socials. You can sign up there.

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