Life Uncut - Should Your Employer See Your Socials & Gisele Pelicot Waiving Her Right To Anonymity

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

Hey Lifers,Sorry for the start of today's ep. Not sure what else to say about it to be honest. If you've had the 'back' lasered, how do you get it done? What's your therapists 'go to' position? Britt is headed to Romania to see Ben! She shares how some of the challenges of being in a long distance relationship have affected her and why she's looking forward to seeing him so much! Unions are pushing to keep bosses from 'trawling' social media and reprimanding employees because of what they're getting up to on the gram. It could be a faked sickie, or a perspective that doesn't align with the values of the business. Do you think employers should be able to reprimand their employees for things that they post on social media? We also speak about the brave woman Gisele Pelicot, who has chosen to waive her right to anonymity after her husband drugged her and allowed her to be sexually abused by 70+ men. We speak about the shift in the way that society views victimhood and the strength that it takes for victims to publicly share their stories to advocate for justice. We also look at the role the media and legal systems play in shaping the choices of survivors. If this conversation brings up anything for you, a confidential information, counselling and support service is available at 1800 RESPECT (1800 737 732) You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be, Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Where did you go to get your laser done? Clear Skins. I got mine. You might need Tony May.

Oh, I get it. I get underarms, legs and butt and Brazilian at the same time. I reckon I would have had over 50 zaps of my vag. Does it hurt? Oh, did she? She accidentally nicked my labia with a laser last week. I was like, that was hot. Not hot, not sexy.

Burnt. Inside the labia. Well, it's a Brazilian. Yeah, just when they're going to get there. She's got little hairs there. I have a question. Do they pull back the flap? No.

No flaps. No, she just works around it. Maybe that's because our flaps. You might have to have a second person in there. I hold my leg up. You might need a spotter. You will. Yes.

We need a support system. We've got a lung labia. no but everyone this is where it does get funny though because everyone who does the the treatment likes for you to do the butt situation in a different way so i've been on my tummy i've been on my side i've lifted a leg don't say you've been on your back cross you've been on your back i've been on my back and lifted your legs and whatever made me do a fucking bridge No, Keisha, no, stop. Not at all.

That's not normal. I don't trust that. If you're going to get lasered and you're going to go and get your butt lasered, there should be a standardised procedure. It should be. Personal preference. No, it shouldn't be a personal preference situation. But it's not your personal preference.

I'm picturing Keisha rolling up on her back until her toes touch over her head and pulling her butt. I didn't have to pull apart. It's spread already when you do that. Like you're having your nappy changed. What if you don't have the flexibility? They hold both my legs in the one hand, lift it up. They wipe you up while you're there.

Get your hands out of the way, Keisha. I know. My kids are always trying to tickle me. Sorry. No, mine's always like, always mine is standardized. Okay, just roll over onto your tummy and if you can spread for me. See, last week I had a side pull apart. Britt, I like that yours is, you know, it's tried and tested.

You know what you're going to get. I quite enjoy the surprise element. You never know. It's a new experience every time. You've got to keep it fresh. They're like, Keisha, you finished your package months ago. There's no hair left. Keisha, you're a bald eagle.

She's like, I think you missed one right in there. Just get in there. Let's start. Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. Fresh back from Port Macquarie and about to roll into Romania. Mate, I am just travelled up, beach town one minute, Dracula's castle the next.

Just try and stop me. No, but guys, Britney's flying out tomorrow? Yeah. Oh, my God. I'm getting picked up at 3 a.m. That's what time I have to leave to the airport. This is what happens when you're trying to make the most of it. You really do.

Every single hour with them. Ben goes, maybe if you don't sleep. And I was like, babe, I'm going to sleep. I was like, even if I get two hours. Yeah, 3 a.m. They're just, funnily enough, Romania's not the top destination so it's not that easy to get to. People are not flocking to Romania.

How many flights are there a day to Romania? Well, I don't even think they're one a day. But, well, it's because they're not direct so you can. They go to Dubai or they go somewhere in Europe or whatever. So you can, or Singapore, I don't know. There's loads of different ways to get there. But some of the flights I looked at took like four days to get there. I was like, I only got a week.

I was like, I can't even get there and make it back in time. That is messed up. How do you feel about going? Horny. Yeah, good. Good. Solid. It's all you've been talking about.

No, I feel, I don't know how I feel anymore. I feel very excited. It can't come soon enough, but it's been really hard. Like this is the longest time we've probably been apart now. And so this back half of the year. so from when we got engaged which was nearly three months ago july june july august september yeah so from when we get engaged to christmas so this whole back end of the year we only see each other for this five or six days so i feel like going into it like that i don't know if it's a good

thing or a bad thing knowing we've got such limited time because i'm just going to be like on a sponge stuck to him like a rash but it's it's really hard it's been a really really like really tough time well also it's the it's a very not that it's like a non-traditional way I mean it is a non-traditional way but it's also most people get engaged and then they have all this time to be in their little love bubble of happiness and I know you guys got to go and have some time together afterwards but then Ben went back and so you kind of have this like immense high of we're engaged everything and then you're like where the fuck are you yeah I'll see next year where are you yeah it's long distance and we speak about this a lot long distance I am

an advocate for I think it does work if both people are committed to it it has its challenges it gets really hard but if you're seeing each other every like eight weeks max I think it's okay but when you start to get to three months and then only one week and then another three or four months that's when it's really tough so that's just the way the cookie has crumbled this year with our holidays. Like it just doesn't add up. I remember Erin Holland when, because we've done an episode on long distance relationships. And I remember her saying, and it was really interesting to me as someone who hasn't been in many of them. She said that she finds it a lot easier to cope when she knows when the next time that you're going to see each other is going to

be. For sure. You have to have something or not even just seeing each other, but plans. Like if you're working towards something, obviously now we're planning the wedding. So it's exciting. And we are working towards that. We know that's going to be an amazing two week period. But it doesn't take away from the fact that you're still not seeing each other for three months at a time. You start to wonder and you get in your head. I get in my head in a lot. Not like a we're going to break up way.

I don't want people to say that. But I get in my head like what's the point of this relationship? That's why sometimes I feel like that and I'll say that. I'm like why are we doing this? Not in a like let's break up, but I'm like, baby, this can't be what our life is. Forever. Yeah, and he's the one that's always pulling me out of it,

out of like it's probably hormonal as well, let's be real. but he's the one that's always like because we're going to have an amazing future. We're doing it now because we support each other. He's so, so good with it. But, yeah, so heading to Dracula tomorrow. So also before when it was Scotland, it was just, I mean, I don't want to offend anyone who's from Romania.

It's never been high on my bucket list of places to go to, but I'm so waiting for you to come back and be like click the link, guys. Romania's great. Swipe up. Swipe up. Book your holiday destination now. It does look really cool. It's underrated.

More flights are needed. It looks incredible. What I will say is since Ben's moved and I've been loosely talking about Romania, a few people have been in the DMs. Not many because not many people have been. Dracula was in my DM and he said you can stay at my castle. Remember that girl that sent through the thing about the bears, the brown bears that just walk through the streets and kill people?

Yeah. That's real. I Googled it. It's an actual news story. It wasn't like a Batuta. No, it's real. Dude, taking a serious turn. I don't know if this is a mood killer.

Like three weeks ago, there was this huge article in Romania. This couple were just going for a walk. Like it was a hike. Like we would go in a national park kind of thing. They were 19 and 20 and a bear chased them and killed her in front of him. And he's on, he's calling emergency services. And I mean, they're in the bush. That's not like the main street of Bucharest.

But yeah, the bears there are proper. They have like the most bears ever in Europe. That was so grim. Hi guys. No, back to another episode of Life Uncut. But no, but everyone, what I was. Long distance to bear. It could be worse.

No, I was going to say, on a good note, the people that have slid into my DMs are either people that are from Romania, ended up being an expat, like living there for some reason. I can't be sure why. Or have traveled. Or have traveled. If you were sad, listen to Life Uncut because then we'll make you sadder. No, but everyone that has, no one has slid in and said Romania sucks. everyone has been frothing it like everyone has been loving it saying it's so beautiful and

everyone's so lovely and so I'm really excited I'm very excited for you to come back and tell us everything about Romania I know I say that and it sounds like I'm joking but actually I'm very interested the only thing like I'm so excited to see Ben but just last night I got a new ick from who from Ben what do you do tell me if you're on my side here I probably will be Oh, well, I don't know if I'm abnormal or he's abnormal. He sat down. He loves yoga, right? He sat down with his yoga.

He just always eats tubs of yoga. Eating his tub of yoga. Fine. Great. But this time it was like a bit chunky because we FaceTime each other. And I was like, what are you eating? And he's like, oh, it's just a tub of cottage cheese. I said, what?

I was like, babe, what? He's like, I've just discovered it. He's like, I've just discovered it. You don't eat it with a spoon. I know. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, babe, it's so cheap. I've just discovered it comes in individual tubs.

I'm like, that's not an individual tub, Ben. I was like, that's for like food. And he's like, no, babe, it's really high protein. I'm like, I can't watch you eat that. He loves it. He's like, I've got 25 in the fridge. He just like buys them in bulk. He just ate it by itself.

He brought spooning, cottage cheese, spoon, nothing. Raw cottage cheese out of – and I said, baby, I know you've just discovered it but I'm trying to teach you that's not how you eat it you should undiscover it really quick we have interesting food habits it doesn't surprise me though as someone who is like an elite athlete elite athletes eat the weirdest shit like drinking raw eggs and I kind of can see it in him I'm not as offended as what you are I just think it's revolting yeah I agree I completely agree we were talking about eggs last night on the phone and I was talking about an article literally came out the other day yesterday I think it was

and it was this woman who was saying that she went on a first date everything was amazing and then as they went to order the meal, the guy that she was there on her first date with slopped out his retainers at the table and then put his retainer next to the bowl of ramen that had just arrived. And I said it is literally my one bugbear with Matt. Actually, there's lots of them. You've heard about most of them.

But it is one thing that any time we're about to, you know, get it on, any time that, like, we are in the mood, he'll be like, wait a second. slops his retainers out and puts them on the side bench which it's like an it's a part of our foreplay now it's when i know that we're about to get it on he takes his retainers out and then i said this to keisha and keisha goes why would you take your retainers out i i cannot rationalize and maybe there's two types of people in the world are you guys listening let me know some people fuck with their retainers in yeah yeah and i ben and i do we're double retainers and you will bone wearing retainers and make out with that like like your retainers

don't smell good no one's do well we only retain at night now so we're not 24 hour a day retainers so we're just the night retainers but I would because I feel physically sick thinking about Matt slurping his retainer out it makes me unwell so I would rather make out with a retainer than see that happen and then have to make out it's almost like a protection on the teeth I want I want his teeth to be free. I want them to be free. Interestingly, and this is too much information, this is why my boyfriend didn't want me talking about him on the podcast,

specifically for what I'm about to say. It's all right. It's really easy to give a blowjob and not have it be teethy because you've got the protection. Do you blowjob with a retainer? It's really easy. I would just like run. It's quite a smooth edge.

This is messed up. Sorry, Jono's out. Jono's leaving the room. He literally just threw his hands up. He's like, Jono, you'd love a blowjob with a retainer. Not from us. No, from us, Keisha. I don't know.

I don't. I need to know this. We haven't done a poll in a while. This is a poll that I'm invested in. We do polls every Thursday. I know we do polls, but what I mean is we never feed them back because we used to use polls as like the research that used to be done on Life Uncut was we did a poll of you.

we surveyed the Life Uncut group, which to be fair, there's like literally 100,000 of you. So it's a pretty good data source. But this is a poll that I can't go past. I need to know, what do you do with your retainers? Do you leave them in? Do you slop them out? There's another question. Do you do it discreetly or do you just do it in front of your partner and they have to cope? I also think it's better. I think like the length of time you've had the retainer makes a big difference. Matt's had his Invisalign for five years. Yeah, but he's lazy. He has never gone back for the last appointment to get the nubs taken off and he has the same last retainer.

He has had them for five years. That is so dumb. I know. You're ruining your life. Mine too. You said that they smell though. I've got one of those ultrasonic cleaner things. Mine are crispy.

Clear as anything. I disagree. Anybody who has a retainer, at some point they still are a bit smelly. Yeah, five years deep, Laura. They stink. He needs those dental tablet things. He has them. Sterodent.

Yeah, yeah. Put one of those in the Zimmer dental pod and it vibrates all the crap off. There's your vibe for the week, isn't it? Should we let everyone know that we have got an announcement? We have made a big change here at Life Uncut. Everyone always, you know, media agencies always tease big announcements and we also have a big announcement. Things have been changing here at Life Uncut.

We've breadcrumbed it in the videos. If you watch YouTube, you might see a glance. We've upscaled. We really wanted to ensure that the social videos are elite and that is why we have got ourselves a bookshelf. a beautiful bookshelf. Actually, to be fair, it's a great bookshelf. We are like now koala-ed from the eyeballs down. From the tits to the toes, we are koala, baby. Yeah, we're rugged up, side table, lounge, and now we've got a bookshelf. And all we've got on display so far is three of

our own books. We've got this bookshelf and the plan is that we want to use it as a way of like bread crumbing, little Easter eggs. So currently the plan is for me, the We Love Love books is because we know we wrote a book. We love love. We did tell Keisha to bring in an eye mask or something that pertained to ice because she loves ice baths. And she was like, that might look, make me look a bit smacky if she brings in something that's ice related. And I also did place on the bookshelf, our very first copy of, you guys might remember our very first copy we got of the book we wrote. We love love. I came home one day and Delilah had eaten my only and first copy. So I brought that in so everyone can see that that is what I hold dear to

mean Delilah is also here in this room. And when you say your only first copy, let's be clear, it was our only first copy of the entire book. And that was what we were supposed to do. Our press announcement was with. So that's what it looked like. Yeah. Which we love Delilah. We love Delilah. I have a question for you guys based on another article that I read over the weekend. And I'm wondering whether the way in which I feel is universal or if I'm just an asshole employer. So the unions are currently pushing for a big reform change around how employers interact with their employees' social media and the surveillance that they take on it. So what the change is asking is that employers will no longer be able to make any decisions or

repercussions to employees around their behavior based on the things that they do on social media. And we all know that currently people, for example, if you were to call in sick to work and then you posted that you actually had gone to a festival or you'd gone out to the park or the pub or whatever it is that you would be in trouble by your employer for that basically these reform changes would mean that nothing that you did on social media could get you in trouble in the workplace it would see them as two separate entities i have two different opinions but before i give you either opinion i just don't think this is enforceable anyway i think they can do what they want but you you can't make somebody tell you the way their opinion or the way they feel

the reason that they made a decision? No, because the reality is you have to. So if you have someone on full-time employment, it's different if someone's a casually employed because you can fire someone who's casually employed at any time. But if you are on full-time employment, I can't just fire you for your behavior. I have to give you an actual reason. And then you have to go onto a performance plan. And with that performance plan, it's called a PIP. I have to give you the reasons as to each time why you have not met the required performance. And so if I'm bringing social media into that as part of my reasoning for your poor performance that's what it's going to rule out yeah this is what I mean though I just think people will be finding other reasons

where there's a will there's a way that's what I think I think if you really had an issue with what they were posting but you didn't feel like you could say that because obviously there's a rule you'll find another reason maybe they're being late maybe they're too slow maybe you don't think that their work ethic is good enough or whatever like I think when people really want to find a way to do something they can with these kind of enforcements that out of the way I think there is a level that you can judge somebody that works for you on what they do outside of work and I say a level because they are a reflection a direct reflection of you and your company that you have employed like this is why we see so many companies maybe when somebody has a really strong

opinion racially so I think in times like that that is fine there is a time in life everyone will call in sick to go to a party or have a long weekend or go away like every single I've done it probably once every single one of us in life I think there's got to be a bit of grace for that kind of thing when you're young you want to live a little bit you want it like you want to live your best life I think you'd be pushed to find one person that hasn't done it at some stage so I think there's got to be a bit of leeway with that but at the end of the day absolutely you're employing someone as a reflection of you like if Keisha if Keisha went out and started to preach on the streets that she doesn't believe in gay marriage or something like that which obviously

she wouldn't but as our like core employee I would say you either have to stop preaching that and or you can't work for us anymore I would go as far as to say that because I believe so strongly in the other way yeah it's interesting because I was thinking about this and this is probably one of the most conservative opinions I'll have on this podcast I am so on the employer's side here and I mean specifically in our job we're very front-facing like I am an extension of the brand of Life Uncut. For you, Laura, a lot of your employees at Tony May are extensions of the Tony May brand because they're on the social media. And I was thinking about whether I would feel differently if it was someone who wasn't front facing, you know, someone who, if you saw their

face and you knew the company that they worked for, do you put the two of those together? And I still feel the same way. I'm still like, if you are going to call in sick for a reason that you're not actually sick or like if you're going to do something that's a little bit you know on the side of shady you don't have to post it like it's kind of implying that they have this surveillance into your actual life but it's not your actual life it's what you're choosing to put on instagram or it's what you're choosing to put on tiktok yeah i've have really strong opinions about this because when i read it i think the way in which it's being framed by the unions is that employers are using it as a surveillance technique that goes beyond the right of viewership you know like as in

like they are intrusively putting themselves inside their employees lives but I really think I mean as we all know like social media you choose your settings you choose whether you want it to be public or private if you're putting something publicly on social media then I think like you have the option of what you're curating around your life and that is very very important there's been some really interesting cases of it where people have lost their jobs. There was a woman last year, she was young in her twenties. She was a school teacher and she worked in primary school and she was posting what was deemed to be quite provocative photos. Provocative in terms of what you and I would think is provocative. Absolutely not. But maybe provocative for what you would

think a school teacher should look like on social media publicly. And it was something that caused a lot of outrage with parents. I do think that there are cases here which kind of can sit more in the gray and can be a bit more questionable. But I've had a situation myself with Tony May where we ended up letting some of our staff go, one staff in particular. And this was not her first warning, but this was something that she did in addition to many things. It was a Friday afternoon. It was around two o'clock in the afternoon. And she said that she had really bad period pains and she had to go home. She was the only staff in store that day. And so we had to close the shop early. It shut at two o'clock and she left, of course, because she was feeling

unwell. 20 minutes later, she was at the pub up the road posting that she'd gotten herself an Aperol spritz and put it on her social media stories. I think she'd forgotten that Alicia, my sister, was following her and was able to see the things that she was doing. So of course, come Monday, we had a conversation with her around honesty, around the way in which she interacts with work around her integrity. I just think I don't agree with this. And I think that kind of they've overcooked it a little bit, the unions, because as much as some people may use it for surveillance, I do think that we have a choice what we put on social media. The only thing though, that I do question about this is it's one thing that employers use it for people

that they already have, like people who are currently on the roster. But I do think that we now use it as a way of vetting the people that we employ. And it does then err into the space of stereotyping people and employers deciding who they will and won't interview for a job because they've looked at your Instagram. And do you look like the type of person they want to employ? And that I think really leans itself into racial stereotypes. It leans itself into profiling, which is a whole different kettle of fish that's very problematic. Oh, yeah. Going for a job now in the world of having social media is a completely different landscape to what it used to be. You could be, I want to say, a quote unquote normal person in a

normal job, not media. No one knows you. You're not famous. But if you in your bio have where you work, which a lot of people do, like, you know, at Coles, whatever, and then you are posting publicly things that go morally so far skewed against the brand that you're working for, then I think that is a problem. Like if you are saying this is who I am and I'm working here and there's a connection, then I think your employer has every right to see that. Well, I guess that's the question, right? Are you only employed to uphold the values of your work when you're being paid during those working hours? Like you having alternate views, you having inconsistent morals, it doesn't mean that you can't actually do the job that you're being paid to do. And I guess

that that is probably the big question that the unions are bringing into play. And it's like, well, so long as you're not doing things during the working hours that you are being physically paid for, then you can live your life in whatever way you want to. And I understand that debate, but I don't necessarily agree with it. I was just trying to imagine a situation where I was like, why would they be so heavily trying to enforce these rules? Like what type of situation are they wanting to address? And I thought about someone who was, you know, let's say 30, she worked in a corporate job let's say she was a lawyer and maybe her social media looks like every other 30 year old girls where she's like posting from the beach and posting from

out having drinks with her friends and that kind of thing and maybe she has a very conservative boss who thinks that that's not a good representation of what someone should do on social media that type of thing I think it's very fair for these rules to be enforced where it's like you don't get to unless it's inappropriate and I think that's where the gray line comes into it it's like what one person deems is inappropriate exactly in a different job or maybe with a different boss is completely a-okay and obviously we work in a really progressive space so like you guys are my close friends like I don't post on it very often but I just I don't know I wonder where the line between personal responsibility of like if you're gonna do the wrong thing be smart about it

don't be posting that you're at a party when you said that you were unwell don't be don't be stupid with it you know like if you're gonna do the wrong thing at least have the forethought of how do I protect myself from being fired from this but I also think that maybe we need to look at the very far end of the other direction and go what is okay for a boss to have ownership over and what's not exactly like you said you know if you're representing if you're not at work are you actually representing a brand? Not necessarily. So how much does that have to do with your employment? I also think that there are certain circumstances. I think the education system, the health system, like let's imagine that there's a doctor who goes into work on a Monday

and their boss can see that they've been partying the night before. There's actually direct consequences. There's direct effects from that type of behavior. And I actually think in those circumstances I really push back on this thing from the union because I think a boss of a hospital should be able to go was this last night were you drinking last night are you still under the influence do you know what I mean like same with the education system I do think if you're going to be in front of children it does have to make your social media life change like because they're vulnerable they're kids they're impressionable and and they're also social media literate I mean And the reason why I kind of, I sat on the fence for a long time around the example I gave earlier

around the teacher who was posting OnlyFans photos on her Instagram. She also had an OnlyFans account and she was stepped down from the education department. The reason why I sat on the fence with that is because I'm like, okay, well in her personal life, she should be able to do whatever she wants. But the reality of the world that we live in is that children have access to social media and every single kid these days can find their teacher online. And so I think a teacher has to have the understanding that the 13, 12 year old, 11 year old, nine year old that they're teaching will see these photos. And then how do they maintain that power dynamic of I'm the teacher, you're the student when they've literally seen that teacher's posts that they're

doing on another job in another career, which I don't have any issue with by all means, but I think it would make that dynamic of teacher-student relationship very compromised. It just needs to be used in discretion. Yeah. And I think ultimately, I don't think that this is a black and white conversation. I don't think that the unions are 100% in the right. And I certainly don't think that employers should be able to surveil everything that their staff do, but I think it has to meet in the middle. I genuinely think that we need to be social media literate enough that we understand that that social media is not our private diary. It is a public facing platform of which we present our life and if we are unhappy with people having an opinion on how we publicly present our life

then we need to do a better job of moderating the things that we put online and understanding the impact of the digital footprint that we do put out there into the world. Before we get into the next part of this conversation I do just want to put a bit of a trigger warning here we are talking about sexual assault and we are discussing an active case that is currently going through the courts in France but it is a story that has absolutely stopped the world in its tracks and it's something that the three of us have been discussing over the last couple of days. So if this is something that may bring up negative feelings for you, if it is something that may be too triggering for you to listen to at this time, you can skip ahead or you can jump to an Ask Uncut episode or something

that is a little bit lighter. There is an incredibly horrific news article and story that has been circulating over the last week. And so this is about Giselle Pellico. Now over the course of a decade, she was drugged, she was raped, and she was degraded by more than 70 men without her knowledge. And this happened between 2011 and 2020. This was by a man who has been described as the worst sexual predator of the last 20 years, her husband, who she was married to for 50 years. Now, her husband's name is Dominic Pellico, and he was the one who orchestrated this genuinely, this unfathomable crime. He was slipping her sleeping pills and anxiety medication into her dinner at nighttime so that she was completely sedated. And he was orchestrating

these men to come into their home, into her bed to rape her. This was all filmed and it was discovered by police officers off the back of another incident where Dominique was caught taking photos up the skirts of women in a shopping center. And it was from this investigation that Giselle found out. And she was presented with like so much video evidence around what had happened to her. During this time as well, she contracted four different STIs from these men. One of the men who was raping her, he had raped her six separate times, was actually HIV positive. So that had to be ruled out. And currently this trial is happening in France at the moment, which is why it is being so, so widely reported on. But one part of this story that has absolutely

gripped everyone is that Giselle has waived her right to anonymity. Giselle insisted that this case was made public and that her full name was revealed. The reason why she insisted it being made public was because keeping it private, and this is a quote, is what her attackers would have wanted. It was also a way for her to be able to take some ownership in a situation where she felt completely helpless. Yeah. She said, my world fell apart. For me, everything was falling apart. Everything I had built up over 50 years. I was sacrificed on the altar of vice. They regarded me like a rag doll, like a garbage bag. I want to go back a little bit because I don't want to scoot over it just to set up really what kind of person this was. But the only reason that this

was discovered, like you said, Laura, is that he got caught filming up a woman's skirt at a shopping center. But what he did was come home to his wife and he admitted that to his wife before the police because he knew what was going to happen and the word he used quote was silly he said I need you to sit down he said I've done something silly and she said what you know we've been together 50 years it's fine he explained I got caught filming up a skirt never happened never gonna happen again she was so supportive of him and said look I don't agree with it but we've been together for 50 years and you make allowances yeah and you've never done anything like this before and you've been a great husband and father to the three kids. And so she thought

that was bad, but that she could accept that and move on because for the last 50 years, he's been great. Then for the police to come in and discover that and the folders that he had on his computer were not just of his wife, but he also had a folder of his daughter with a montage of naked photos of his own daughter as well. Like this is the kind of person we're talking about. And I cannot fathom like you could not write this for a horror film you cannot fathom after 50 years thinking your husband was the best man you've ever met thinking your father was the man that's protected you and looked after you for your whole life then to have your entire world turned upside down to this extent and watching her and because her photos are everywhere right like we can barely

see him but we have seen her everywhere and when I watch her and look at these photos walking around I don't know her but I am so proud of her I'm like I love looking at you with your head held high like she has no shame and she's so determined and the look on her face is so determined like I am going to take back control of this story and out every single one of these fuckers and I look at her and I think the reason I'm proud is because so many victims are shrouded in shame and embarrassment that this could have happened for many reasons the fact that they're a victim, the fact that the wool was pulled over their eyes, the fact that they think they've been used and degraded to this level. And we know that as women, we shouldn't

feel like that, but knowing you shouldn't feel like that is very different to actually being able to control that feeling. So to see her doing that and being front facing, and she even makes a comment, I'm doing this for every other victim. I just think what a brave, incredible woman. At the very start, when I very first read the headline, I think I had the thought that everyone did is like how is it possible to not know this like how is it physically actually possible for this to have gone on for so long and then the more I read into it like we have all been down the very frightening rabbit's warren of this story and it made me very very aware just how insidiously dangerous tranquilizer like drugs are and also I had to check my bias because the very first thing

I thought when I saw the photo of her and I absolutely mirror that sentiment now, Britt, I'm like, this is honestly one of the most courageous women I have ever read a story about. But my very first thought was, why would you want people to see your face? And I hate that I'm going to say that, but that was my very first thought. And it was because I was putting myself in that situation. And I was like, I am not strong enough that I would not want to have to walk down the street and for people to go, oh my God, that's what happened. I wouldn't want the pity. I wouldn't want the sadness that people would give you. But also what I don't think I realized in that moment and when I thought about it more, I was also really like this idea that victims should feel

shame for the things that perpetrators do to them is so outdated and it's so incredible. And I think that's really the part of this story that we wanted to talk about was how her face has been plastered everywhere and how media outlets are speaking about her. They have given her a name, they have given her a face but I reckon you would be hard pressed for most people who have just read into this story to bring up a picture of what Dominique looks like and it was only after really getting down in the trenches that I found photos of him and it made me kind of mad and I kind of thought well why is it that he is not getting as much air time because I would hope that every single person would be able to see a photo of him and be like that is the perpetrator that is the

man who has done these things? There's a few reasons for that. One of them is media bias is going to trial. A lot of countries do have that. They don't want the media to sway public opinion, jurors opinion, which it's not going to be hard to sway. It's very hard. I mean, with this case, it's already swayed, right? He's also admitted to it in court, but I asked one of my best friends is a lawyer and I actually asked her about this last night. And this is exactly what she said. She said, from what I can see, she has waived her right to anonymity. So that's why the photos are up and about. With any criminal case though, the media have to be very careful not to influence the case, read juries, et cetera, and can be subject to court sanctions. So I assume it may

be the same in France. However, it could also be because of specific court orders and they have what they call an inquisitorial system where the judges essentially ask all of the questions. So it is a very different system to what we have here in Australia. There is another reason that occasionally perpetrators aren't named. And that is because a lot of people say, well, we shouldn't be giving them the space and the time and nobody should know their name for that reason. Because a lot of perpetrators do in a way like to be glorified and they get off on the fact that people know what they did for so long. And I'm saying this just from hundreds of true crime podcasts. I hear them discuss it all the time. Sometimes people make a really conscious effort

to say let's celebrate her in a way and lift her up and support her and you know fuck anyone knowing his name which is a double-edged sword right because you want people to know his name you want people to know the monster and the atrocities that he is and has done but I do see the side of it where we're like okay let's not give him any more time than he absolutely needs to have when I read this story like there was this thing that someone said to me a long long time ago and I've never forgotten it and they said we don't need the supernatural to believe in evil because we have all of the evil that you could ever imagine within humans yeah and that is what i think of when i think of this man and the bit like i've actually never read of a betrayal so deep of

someone who is supposed to be your protector your comforter your best friend meanwhile in a town of just 6 000 people and this is kind of an extra layer that i have not been able to stop thinking about you know we talk all the time of the fact that we all know someone who's been sexually assaulted but very few of us are able to go well that person's a predator in a town of 6 000 people this man was able to find and he's in his he was in his what 60s or 70s i think that they came from all over as well they were on a website recruiting for this people that have a fetish online to go and rape someone in their house that has been drugged they're not all coming from that town i know a lot of them are there was like a baker there were people that she had seen every single

day, like people she recognized, but there were also people that would have come for this purpose. I think it's worth noting that this website that we're talking about, it was called Without Her Knowledge. It was shut down last July. The website for it was coco.gg. But this was a website that was set up with forums discussing sexual assault, discussing rape, discussing ways in which you could sedate a person to be able to do these sorts of horrible crimes to them. but this is what I mean like my point to the reason I think this story has impacted every single person around the world I'm going to say person not just women it's not only the betrayal from the person that you're supposed to trust it's the fact that we we talk about violence all

the time we talk about sexual violence all the time and the idea that these people exist in our society and I can't think of a time where I've been so aware of the fact that this person could sleep next to you every night for 50 years. And that's what's so confronting, I think, to think that there is not only so many people who are willing to be a part of this sick fantasy, but also that they can be the people that you trust. Most sexual assaults are by people that you know. Something that I think is very interesting for people to know, and it was a statistic that I was really alarmed about. Now, this is specifically to France, but I would say that it would be very

similar across the world. According to France's drug security authorities, 42% of credible reports of date rape, so using sedation drugs, are by people that occur in the private sphere. So it is by people that are known. It is in a space that is not a party space or going out to nightclubs. I think often we think of date rape. We think of being in a nightclub, having your drink spiked. It feels very othering, but this is the statistic. 42% happen within your own homes or within your private sphere. That is to me such a fucking harrowing thought. And once again, it was this idea that this could happen to a person and they wake up thinking, why did I sleep so long? Why am I so groggy? She had no idea. She thought she was going through the early onset of Alzheimer's.

She was questioning her cognitive ability, had no idea that she was being raped by 70 men. And that is only the men that they have video footage of. God knows what the actual statistics were around it. That to me is the part that I think even someone who is very literate in this space and who has read many articles and understands the impossibility for most women to actually hold their perpetrators to account, I did not know that it could go this unnoticed. I've been drugged three times. As most of you know, if you're new here, I've been drugged three times. One, by someone I knew. Two, I don't know if you classify this as someone I knew. It was a first date, but I had been speaking to him online for a while, like a couple of weeks. So I guess that's someone,

I don't know if that falls into your private sphere fact statistic, Laura, that you were saying, but I guess I sort of knew him. And the third was a complete stranger. Anything could have happened to me over that night that I was drugged. You remember nothing. Like anyone listening right now, and I'm going to guess there's quite a lot of you, unfortunately, that have experienced this. You remember nothing. So when people say, how did you not know it was happening? Of course she didn't know. She wasn't even getting a normal cocktail of drugs. Her husband had set two rules for people that were going to come and rape her. One, you cannot have smoked. You cannot come into that house if you smell of smoke or have smoked

because she might smell it in the morning and perfume, like no smells. Two, if his wife even moved a muscle, it was over and they had to leave immediately. So that is how unconscious she was, that she wasn't even stirring, like she was out cold. It's absolutely horrific. The gaslighting that you just said Laura too on top of this to let your wife then think she's getting early onset Alzheimer's she couldn't she didn't want to get the bus anymore because she didn't think she'd get off at the right stop to go see her daughter she was forgetting everything she didn't want to drive because she didn't feel safe she was going to be tested for Alzheimer's which came back as negative but to be gaslighting her on top of knowing you've drugged her for decades to then

be like yeah yeah you're also going crazy yeah yeah you're also losing your memory I don't even have words for the monster that this person is like every single aspect gets worse and then when you find out that he had the pictures of his daughter nude as well I hope he doesn't last a day in prison to be honest it's just it's such a scary thing and I think like you know we have never to this level of this story but we talk about sexual violence we talk about domestic violence so often on this podcast it is currently it could not be more front and center in the media but it just doesn't feel as though and I mean the statistics show it the amount of deaths we've had of women within Australia this year nothing is improving and to think that you know every year

that goes by there can be a story that is more shocking that actually grips the entire world because of how unbelievably vile it is it feels so devastatingly futile it feels like like well what is the progress that's being made the only thing I want to I really want to come back to is this conversation around victims going public and sharing their story and reclaiming their voice. I know it's something that was spoken about a lot when Grace Tame was the Australian of the Year. There is a woman named Nina Fennell who started the Let Her Speak campaign because currently within Australia, state by state, the laws are quite different and not everybody who is the victim of a sexual assault or of a crime is able to tell their story, which is crazy.

There is a forced anonymity on these victims. And I understand that maybe when that law was first passed, the reason for that was to try and protect victims. It was done to try and stop the media from outing them, to stop people from harassing them, and also to allow them to potentially rebuild their lives in private without people knowing the things that had happened to them. But I think society's views on victims have shifted so much now. And society as a whole, I don't think everyone would share this view, but I think we really

are making some headway. We don't victim blame in the same way. And when we do victim blame, there is enough voices to call it out. People are so much more literate in that space. And this one thing that Nina Fennell said in her Let Us Speak campaign, she said, by gagging victims against their will, you are robbing them of their own unique voice. For change to happen, more voices need to be heard. And in this case of Giselle, there could not be somebody who has experienced more horrors, who has been so powerful and courageous to put her face to what has happened to her.

If there is anything to take away from the story, it's not what she's been through, but it is the type of woman that she is and the pioneer that she is in being able to say, this happened to me, I am a victim and it was not my fault. Yeah and I think that that's the only positive that we can take from this is the fact that if this had have happened 20 years ago I think our societal reaction to it would have been really different. I think that there has been an astronomical amount of change in the language that we use in terms of reporting on these kinds of things. Area that I think we are still a bit grey with is the sensationalisation of stories like this but I just I don't even know if that applies to this story because it is one of the most vulgar stories I've ever read in my entire life. So I kind of wonder whether the media can be responsible for sensationalizing this because

the story is actually that grotesque. I don't think you could sensationalize this if you wanted to because it is. But what has changed and what I think is really a huge take home is 20 years ago, they would have said that there is no way she didn't know. She would have been blamed for the atrocities that happened to her. She would have been made to sound complicit, whether that was from media whether that was within that courtroom but that is not happening in this case people absolutely see her as a victim and I don't want to like settle on Grace Tame because obviously it's such a different scenario but if you're not across what happened to Grace Tame she's a huge advocator for child sexual assault for victims because when she was at school when she was 15

she was raped by a school teacher from her college and when Grace was around and I think it was around 18 years old when she was still media gagged from speaking about what happened to her Nicholas Bester which is the the teacher's name he had been convicted for two years prison sentence he did a public media interview which was broadcasted where he spoke about how young girls in school are provocative and how it ruined his life and it was also the woman who was the interviewer she fed into this type of narrative she really encouraged her and was like you know it is so hard for these men to be able to distinguish what is and isn't consensual when you have these provocative teenagers. This was a legitimate interview that went to air and

was broadcasted. Yeah, I don't know, maybe because they're at school. Your pupil in under 18. It's not even a discussion. Like this is not even up for debate. But the problem was, is here she was, an unidentified person who was unable to speak her truth, who was being re-victimized, being called provocative and that's what happens when we gag order people and don't allow them to claim their victimhood and to be able to speak about the things that have happened to themselves and I do appreciate that now it's an opt-in so that people who don't want to talk about it don't have to but if someone does want to talk about it they absolutely should have the right to do so otherwise it only benefits the perpetrator. The other thing about Giselle and something that I

think really is a product of the last couple of years only you know very specifically like you said we would have said how could you possibly not have had any indication that this was happening to you for x amount of time the tide has turned on that victims are no longer seen as being weak or as being easy to manipulate or being you know there's all these different narratives that used to be painted into victimhood and it's because of people like Giselle standing up showing their strength and showing their power and their bravery the narrative around victimhood has shifted so much well so long ago it also to go one step further you were seen as tarnished you were ruined you were stained like no oh she's been raped but we can't marry her like that's disgusting

that was used to be the narrative for women that have been sexually assaulted i want to say we've done a complete 180 but we haven't yet i mean maybe 50 of the population have obviously there's a lot of women that support this narrative we know that there's still a lot of men committing these assaults so yes the tide is turning but it's still happening still work to be done yeah I'd also like to point out that 35 of the men who are currently on trial have said that she consented in one way or another that's what they are arguing currently the rest of this trial is going to continue until December of this year and Giselle is going to test she's already testified herself she's going to be answering questions to hopefully hold every single one of these people

accountable there are glimmers of hope that I think we can hold on to from this story and you know the strength that her family has shown the strength that she has shown the way that the community has rallied around her and the way that we are now approaching stories like this are the silver linings of this story yeah I do want to finish this just by saying if this has been a conversation that is triggering for you if you have been a victim yourself please call 1-800 respect. There are so many support networks out there. And I think for us, we talk about how do we approach these conversations, but I also think it's so important to keep having them on a very, very public scale to bring awareness to this because it does still happen. And yeah, it's

an important conversation. That is it from us, guys. I am heading over to Romania now, but I'm still on the episodes. We still have amazing interviews. We've got an Ask Uncut coming up so we've got lots of goodness if you do have any questions keep writing them in to instagram life uncut podcast just put ask uncut at the top you'll always stay anonymous if you've got feedback for us with an ask uncut that we might have answered we love an ask uncut aftermath and we also have the youtube channel so if you want to go and watch anything on youtube we can put all the links in the show notes and watch this space because we are going to start doing some sneaky little giveaways for youtube subscribers but we're going to tell you more

Or if you even know, tell me about it first. I'll tell you about it first. Keisha and I have talked about it. Watch this space. We're also going to put a few more things on the bookshelf. And that's it from us, guys. You know the drill. Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friends,

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