Life Uncut - Shut Up Rings, Shut Up Moves & The Fine Line Between Nagging and Communication

Episode Date: July 15, 2024

Hey Lifers, Delilah has been kicked out of dog school. Again!Britt shares how she feels like it's a reflection of her and it turns out that pretty privilege also exists in the canine world!Very sadly, Laura's nan passed away last week. We speak about the concept of the 'rally' where people in the last stage of life seem to have the fog lifted. Laura got to enjoy this moment with her nana.  Have you ever heard of a shut up ring? What about a shut up move? We unpack these ideas and how we determine where the line between nagging and good communication is.  Is it always ‘if they wanted to he would’ or do some people need prompting? Whether you feel satisfied with a shut up move because you got what you wanted, just not in the way that you wanted it. You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Cammeraygal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. I'm Laura. And Laura's really, really had a week. She is here. She is smiling, which is...

Am I? Yeah. Am I here? Not am I smiling? You are smiling and you're here, but I think it's like in that, you know, when you're smiling like that manic way. You know, when you're laughing at something and you're smiling. It reminds me of Alanis Morissette, where it's like cry at a funeral.

Also very fitting. Sorry. Yeah. But this is what I mean. You're here and you're having a... That was grim. Yeah. You're having a wonderful time.

You've cracked some jokes. but it hasn't been a wonderful week no I love being here guys I'm never going to come on the podcast and complain about doing the podcast because you guys this is like the best thing that we get to do with our weeks is being here and doing this sorry but yeah I mean if Ben was here I'd say he's the best thing I get to do each week but sorry to my children who I love but I mean we'll talk about it in a little bit but we kind of don't want to get into it as like the intro of the crux of this episode but if you listen to last Tuesday's episode you would know that I was talking about my suck was that my nana was really unwell.

Well, I have a much worse suck this week and that is that my nana passed away last week. Yeah, and she was 94. Amazing. It was her time, you know. It's not as though she had a lot of life left in her. And I've spoken about her so much on the pod around her dementia and kind of the last five years since my papa passed away.

But it doesn't make it any less hard. It's still really sad. And I just feel absolutely flattened by the week is how I feel. Well, do you want to talk about it now or do you want me to divert for a minute and then we can come back and sit in it? What would you prefer? What would you like to do? I'm here for you.

You tell me your funny stories first and then we can talk about Shirley. Okay. I'll tell you the only thing that happened to me this week, which is – I'm crying. I know. So I'm going to distract you for a minute. The only thing that really shook me this week, I'm having a real parenting crisis. I'm not an actual parent, obviously, but I have Delilah, my dog.

She's the love of my life. I imagine this is what it feels like when your kid goes to preschool and they call up and they say, you know, your child's been bullying people. Delilah's a terror, that's why. What has she done now? This is how I feel. This is what I actually felt like.

I was embarrassed. I was upset. I was really going through the emotions and I was like, well, I'll get a grip, Brittany. Obviously my period's coming or something. She goes to two dog walkers a week because when we have huge days of radio and podcasting. I'm out all day.

She's an Australian Shepherd. She cannot be at home. So I pay these two separate dog walkers. They come get her in the morning. She's with them all day with a group of dogs. There's always photos. They're having the time of their life and then they drop her back. Both dog walkers independently this week have basically kicked her

out of dog school. No, they haven't. Yeah, she's the bully. What does she do? She picks some of the dogs. No, she doesn't. She's very friendly but she's really, really possessive and obsessive, right?

And so producer Keisha knows the same thing because producer Keisha has looked after her for a long time since she was a puppy. And what she thinks, she's so obsessed with who she thinks her person is that if somebody, another dog or somebody comes too close and she gets a bit funny, she'll be very like aggressive as in not fight it but get in between us, growl at it. So she doesn't bite it or anything but she's quite intimidating. Oh, I've seen that.

I've seen it because the only reason why I make jokes is because Because any time Brits come over to our house, like my house, and Buster just wants to come and like hang out with me, Delilah's like, oh, fuck you up, Buster. Buster's like, I live here. That's my mum. What are you doing? She tries to protect me from my own dog.

They call it resource guarding. It's got a word. I'm not a resource. Like I'm not food. Usually it's about like it's about kibble. It's not usually about a human that you don't know that well. Yeah, resource guarding is with food and balls, which she also does. So she got into a fight last week at dog school

because someone else tried to take her ball, but it wasn't her ball. She took it from that dog. So the dog was trying to get her own ball back. So anyway, they both independently were like, we think Delilah might be better suited somewhere else. So what are you going to do? You've lost both your dog walkers. Is that what you're saying?

As in Jodie, who we love. Jodie can't do her anymore. No, Jodie's put her on a one-month trial, one more month. Oh, she must be. Jodie will take anything. Jodie will take any dog. Jodie loves every dog. My dog walkers are amazing.

I don't want anyone to think that they're not, like Demi and Jodie. Shout out. They are incredible people. There's obviously a space in both groups now if anyone thinks they're dog walkers. I can vouch for this because Jodie, who she's a lifer as well, we love you if you're listening. You probably are and I hope you are. Jodie has been my sister's dog.

My sister has dogs who are like 14 years old now. Like she has been my sister's dog walker for so long. She then became Buster's dog walker and then now she's Delilah's. Delilah is the only dog that I have ever known that Jodie's liked too much. But that's years. That's real sad, Britt. We need to do something about this. Okay, so here's where I'm at.

So she's been banned from Wednesday. I'm not laughing and everyone thinks that I'm not. Like I have tried to train Delilah consistently from a puppy. She's gone to dog schools. She's gone to elite dog schools. She's been to boot camp. She's got puppy boot camp. She's been to boot camp.

She's been to agility school. I've trained her. Like she's. Yeah, but we also got kicked out of agility school, remember? But that's because she wanted to have sex with everyone. She's like a mug. Don't slouching her. She had her first heat.

Like a mum. Because she was on heat. But she didn't focus. Anyway, long story short, I just want people to know it's not because I'm neglectful. Like I have tried putting in the work. So this is where she's at. Wednesday's, banned.

I'm going to find someone else, which, you know, my dog walker's like, look, it's not like I'm dropping her now. I love her. She's just hard. I'll do it for the next month and give you time to find someone else. And I was so deeply hurt. Like she was a direct reflection of me. She is, though.

That's the problem. That's the problem. Do you know what's worse than this? The only thing worse than this is when daycare calls you to tell you that your kid has nits and your kid is the nit kid. That was my experience recently and I was like, oh, my God, the shame, the horror that my child's a nit child. Well, at the end, Demi goes, and she's got fleas.

Oh, see, no, she doesn't. She goes, your child's the nit child. I was joking. Welcome to parenting, Brit. So she's got a one-month trial for her Monday left to see if she can be better. So I feel all this pressure now, one month to prove herself. so she's recommended me a dog trainer that she said is good I haven't ever used him so I've

reached out to him and it's so funny I reached out to him on Instagram and was like oh my god you've been recommended I've got an Aussie blah blah do you think you can help me and he wrote back straight away and he's like yeah like we could do that tell me what you think the problems are and we'll go from there and so I told him all the problems blanked radio science hasn't written back and I'm like I'm just gonna give him the benefit of the doubt for a day he's probably on holiday with his family. But the thing about Delilah is she kind of reminds me, you know when you're at school and someone's like so hot,

you've got like the hot person but they don't have to work on their personality. Pretty privileged. It exists in the dog world too. She has privilege. She doesn't know she's hot, guys. She has a dog. Mate, she does.

She has. Actually, I have been catching her looking in the mirror sometimes. Like sometimes I see her staring in the mirror and I'm like, are you looking at yourself? I'm like, what are you looking at? I'm like mum, like daughter. Hang on. What I want to say in her defence.

is that she's actually the most perfect dog with people, with kids, with her affection, her everything. It's just this resource obsessiveness. The protectiveness is too much and it's the problem when we're in public at home and when it's just us, but it's the protection thing. And I don't know, like, fair, right? She wants to keep me safe.

No, I think we need to give Delilah a bit of slack because she comes from a broken home. Like her dad left when she was a baby. Her dad walked out. Jordan, fuck you. Delightless issues are from you. She comes from a broken home. Her dad walked out when she was a baby.

Her mum is a working mum. She knows she's busy. She's always with the nanny. It's a really hard life living like that as a child. She's got an anxious attachment style. She doesn't? Yeah. Are you saying I'm supposed to feel guilty for being a working mum

and putting bacon in that bowl? Absolutely not. You're doing the best that you can with what you have. Damn straight. The salmon. Anyway, if you're a dog walker, I mean if you're – If you're A, a dog walker, or B, a dog trainer more importantly. Sorry, back to the one-month trial.

Fuck, why do we do that? Because Jodie has said, I know, trust me, stay with it. Jodie has said that if she can improve in a month, she'll keep her on. So I'm on a one-month timeframe to whip that dog into shape. Probation. So that she can stay with her dog walker. Pray for me, everyone. If your dog trained to slide into my DMs.

Anyway, that's my life update. Thank you. I needed that. That was great. Love you, Delilah. Well, look, we do love Delilah. I mean, she could come to the studio if she didn't drop her hair everywhere. Maybe I can just start bringing her in and put her in the corner.

She's really chill now. I think it's more the hair factor. I'll bring a vacuum. Okay. I'm not against it. It's not my studio. So, I mean, speaking of this. What, speaking of pussies?

I was going to say speaking of dogs, then pussies. I mean, kind of like within the same realm, but slightly different. So last week we were talking about the word pussy, as in like, you know, calling someone a pussy for not being brave enough. Like jump off the cliff, you pussy. Yeah, just do it, you pussy. And then we kind of, you know, as I said it and as the word pussy, actually, I think you said it.

But anyway, as the word came out of someone's mouth in here, the like PC lens of mine was like, oh, God, somebody in the comment section is going to come for us for the use of the word pussy now. Then we ended up getting into a weird conversation about Betty White and how like pussies are actually really strong. They take a pumping. They take a pounding.

Look, we really tried to cover all bases there. But anyway, one of you guys slid into our DMs or into the Facebook group. Slid into our pussy. Someone slid. We got schooled. Someone slid into my pussy and told me that actually the word pussy, like calling someone a pussy for not being strong enough, has nothing to do with vaginas.

So we can all like stop worrying about it because I know everyone's been losing sleep. So the word pussy originates from the word pusillanimous, which is showing a lack of courage or determination or is timid. Pusillanimous. So the next time someone is being a pussy, don't call them a pussy. Call them a pusillanimous. And it means it's okay to use it without feeling guilty like it's like a derogatory term related to the vagina.

Yeah, because let's not put our vaginas or our vulvas down. Let's not call people pussies. Let's call them pusillanimuses. When I say, when I always said pussy though. Pusillanimi. What's the plural of it? Just one flat. Pusillanimi.

So stupid. When I used the term pussy, I don't cringe. I would always say to somebody you're a pussy but not because I I never actually associate it with a vagina I just associated it with being scared I because when I hear the word pussy in relation to a vagina I cringe I don't like vaginas being called pussies so if I was hooking up with someone who's like yeah show me your pussy I'd be like ew there's a front door that's what I'll show you I don't like the term back door as well yeah so first date I I don't like the term pussy in relation to a vagina or sex.

I 100% agree. But everyone's different. Like some people find that really hot and steamy. There isn't a term. This is the unfortunate thing. For me, there isn't a term for a vulva or for a vagina that a guy can say that makes me feel like that's sexy. So what's your word if you're getting into it

and he's trying to sexy talk and he has to use a word to refer to it, what would you want if it's not? Because if it had to happen for me, it would be pussy. yeah that's the thing because it's the only word that there is but i don't enjoy it being said i'm not like yes that's it's so wet like that doesn't work it's your vulva like it doesn't turn me on it doesn't i'll be like my volvo the car no it doesn't turn you on okay but what is yours when it comes to a penis if i'm probably cock yeah we're also basic willy dick once i said Willie.

Once I said Willie, but like. Get your Willie up. Show me your Willie. I would say, no, but I think dick's okay as well. No, I think it's cock for me. If I'm going to dirty talk, dick feels like a swear word. Like if I'm calling someone a dick, it doesn't really feel like something to bring into the bedroom,

but I wouldn't really call someone a cock. Okay, the relation for the two, dick for me just is like a, okay, regular penis, but when you say cock, it makes it sound like it's going to destroy you. Like cock just means it's going to tear you apart. It's a real compliment, isn't it? I think men would want it to be referred to as a C-O-C-K. Yeah.

I like that you spelt it out after saying cock five times. I thought we said it too much. All right. Well, look, off the back of that note, I'm sure my nan would really appreciate us talking about her now. Sorry, Shirley Mae. What a segue. I wonder what she used to use.

We love you, Shirley. I wonder if she said cock or dick. Anyway, so look, the reason why I wanted to talk about this isn't because, I mean, it's a weird one for me because I kind of partly feel like you almost can't be sad when someone who's 94 years old passes away because it is so not a tragedy especially when my nan's had dementia for so long and for the past five years I think her life has been really hard she's she's been living in a home she lost her husband and like the love of her life my grandparents were together since she was 16 oh and so her whole life and so for the past like five years every time you see her

she's always like love you ready to die now so she's thrilled like this is exactly what she wanted love you kill me on the way out but it's funny the only thing I will say that I don't know if I agree with and it's I just think that we're told that when someone is has lived a long life like they're in their 90s we're told that like you shouldn't be sad you should be happy they had a fulfilling life which is so true but you can still be sad that that person that has been a part of your whole life, even though they've lived a full life, it's still sad. Like you've still lost someone. It's just, it makes it a little bit more comforting to know they had the great life, but it doesn't take away the grief. Totally. And for me, it's a bit different because

my grandparents were more than just grandparents to me. Like I lived with my grandparents growing up. So my nan was my second mom and my grandfather filled my papa. He filled such a paternal role in my life. And for that, like I'll be forever grateful for them because they were during a time when my childhood was very chaotic they were the one relationship that was always stable and they always showed up for me and my sister and my brother so they were really incredible people but the reason why I wanted to talk about it is because we have an episode that's coming out tomorrow it is with hospice nurse Julie who is very prolific across TikTok and we recorded this before we actually went on holidays and so at the time my nan didn't have pneumonia and she wasn't

unwell. And one of the things that hospice nurse Julie talked about in this episode is this moment of clarity that often people have when they are in palliative care and they are in the final stages before death. And I'm genuinely so grateful that we had done that interview and we'd had that conversation just before Nan passing away, because I think it gave me a little bit of an understanding and a bit of a preparation for what was going to happen. I didn't expect the timing to be so soon, but it really made a massive difference to me and the reason why it did make this massive difference is because one of the things that Julie was speaking about is that when some patients whether it be dementia patients or very elderly have been like non-responsive or have been like

very unconnected for a long time that they have these moments often in the final stages just before death of lucidity where they come to and they're able to have conversations and talk and and she said that there's this experience that some people have which no one knows why but it seems this real like lucid connection again with reality like the fog lifts for a minute yeah and my nan has not been very conscious at all for the last couple of weeks even when she didn't have pneumonia you were only getting sort of like very short replies out of her but I went down there to Wollongong two nights before she passed away and nobody else had had a conversation with her my sister had been down there that same day and she hadn't even woken up and Alicia was at the

hospital for over an hour and I got down there and she was completely asleep and she was like very heavy in the chest and like real like drool of trying to breathe and then I sat down and I was just having a conversation with her like I was just talking to her as though she could understand what I was saying even though she was completely not conscious and then she started to show signs after about 20 minutes that she knew I was there she was like moving her hand and and then after a little bit longer she was trying to raise her hand up to hold my hand and and then slowly she started showing more and more awareness that I was there what happened next was like truly incredible and something that I will keep with me for the rest of my life she woke up and she wanted she was like

my back is sore she wanted to sit up in bed so I got the nurse and the nurse came in and sat her up and then we spent an hour and 40 minutes just talking about all the memories that we have like she was prompting me on stories about my papa things like how he would ride his bike to go see her and put newspaper down his shirt to stay warm because they had no money and she was like the big paper the sun herald because it covered him up more and she was actually the one who was prompting these stories and she you know she was saying things like what about the rat the rat behind the oven and then trying to prompt me on stories about from when I was living in Lismore and how we had this rat that ended up behind the oven and these things that I I thought that there's

no way that she would remember but she remembered them so clearly even if the timeline wasn't exact she got like the timeline mixed up but the stories themselves she remembered well it's it's also when you think of dementia a lot of dementia patients it's quite short term or the second half of their life yeah they forget things but when you think about the fact how involved you are in their life like you lived with them from a really young age so all her memories she does she does remember that whole part you know if that was me and my nan I didn't have that relationship so she might not have remembered who I even was but you were such an integral part of her life so it must be so nice for her to but like so random like the rat at uni that time like what a strange memory

what it was a I mean like the story behind that is probably too much to get into but it was like it was no I certainly cooked it I lived in Lismore and like like I was living in a terrible share house and the last straw was this rat that ended up like running through the kitchen and jumping behind the oven and I called my nan at the time and I was like I can't live here anymore and her and my papa drove up to come pick me up from Lismore and bring me home and so and so she was like remember the rat and because she was like you're living in squalor which must have been a really big moment for her too yeah that's what stood out there must have been a moment where she's like I'm gonna go protect my granddaughter like I'm gonna go get her and bring her home to

safety like she's she's remembered she remembered that and she also talked so much about like having dreams about papa she said i've been seeing papa a lot which was really sweet and then i asked her i know it's probably a bit late to ask now nan but what do you want at your funeral like if you have a choice what do you want to have there she goes i just want your papa to be there and and i was like oh nan because sometimes she would forget that he's not alive and i was like oh nan you know papa's he'll be with you he won't be there and she goes no in the earth so she wanted me to bring to the funeral. Would you put them together?

Yeah, he's under the kitchen bench at the moment. So we're going to bring him. Great, he's with the rat under the sink. He's been waiting for Nan. Their thing is that they always wanted to get cremated and thrown off Mount Kembla. No, Mount Kembla, Mount Kira. They always wanted to get thrown off like this mountain.

I feel like you need to know which mountain it is. I think it's Mount Kira. I'm going to throw her somewhere. So he's been waiting. So that's the next step. So your Nan wants to be cremated and then that's what you guys are going to do together. Yeah, we're going to go down as a family and toss them off.

So my advice would be to don't go – I'll let you guys all know, don't go hiking that day on Mount Kira because if a bit of dust falls down, it's Nana and Papa on their way down the mountain. I remember. This is a fucked thing to attach to the back, but here we are. I remember years ago we had an accidentally unfiltered written in about a girl that was on a walk along a cliff face. It was like a beach walk with a guy.

They were on a date, I think, and they could feel stuff on them, falling on them, and they were like, what? What is this? And they looked around and they looked up and they realised that they were getting someone's ashes off the cliff. Someone was, like, spreading ashes and it went all over them. On their first date they were covered in a dead person. Like, nana, papa, is that you?

Yeah, dad. So be careful, A, if you're going for a hike, and B, if you're spreading ashes. If you think it's a windy day and it's really dusty, like, have a little reassessment as to what's going on. no but anyway the reason why I wanted to say it like I said is tomorrow's episode hospice nurse Julie the reality is is that we are all at some point in our life going to lose someone who we love and as we get older those moments seem to happen a lot more frequent than

what you would like and it gave me a lot of comfort doing that interview prior to this you know happening with Nan so I would so recommend everybody listens to tomorrow's episode because she is incredible and there's so few people who can speak about the closeness of death and the experience of death and being around a loved one who dies and also someone who's seen it not just intimately but also objectively as well because she stood alongside it so it's an awesome interview it's coming out tomorrow well two things one thing i've been around a lot of death in hospitals and this i learned so much more from nurse julie like it's just such a different lens and a different angle. Like even, I think everyone, no matter what stage of life you are at or what

grief you've been through, this is an episode for everyone. Like it was, it was very fascinating and educational. And the other thing I want to add is because I know there might be a lot of people listening now that don't really understand the conversation we just had or how we had it in terms of, you know, we just made a lot of jokes and there's a lot of laughing, but I just want it to be said that Laura, Laura has gone through it in her own way for however long, you know, there's a lot of the time that we deal with things with laughter it doesn't we don't want anyone to be offended the fact that we can make some jokes and things like that because it's oh I think it's the only way to deal with it I mean yeah look it's been a really hard time for my mum at the moment

because like as you all know you guys have been listening to the show for a while like my my stepdad's in palliative care and my mum's just lost her mum so I think the reason why I feel so flat and so sad isn't just because of Nan you know like Nan's like she was so ready I know that she would be like, guys, you held on to me for way too long. She's like, fuck off and let me go. She was done with our shit a long time ago. But I really feel for my mum because my mum is the primary carer for my stepdad at the moment and then now she's just lost her mum.

So, yeah, fuck man, life, hey, throws you some curveballs and then you've lost your dog walker. So, like, it's fucked. Please don't collate the two. My grief this week, whilst it has been tough, does not compare to yours. Anyway, the only way to deal with this shit is by having a laugh. Yeah. Okay, well, let's get into what we're actually talking about today.

So we want to talk about something today. It's called shut up rings or shut up moves, I guess. Do you know what is so funny about this? Because like as two people who work in the space of relationships, we have a relationships podcast, everywhere that I had read about this, everyone's like, oh, you've all heard of like a shut up ring. Nope. And I genuinely hand on my heart was like, fuck, I'm such a millennial.

I had not heard of shut up ring, but I know I understand the concept. we're going to tell you the concept if you've never heard of a shut up ring you are not alone so the idea of shut up rings which we're going to get into has been around for a while it is having a little bit of a resurgence but that is because of this one girl on tiktok who has advanced the idea of shut up rings it's evolved thank you that was what i was looking for it's evolved to shut up moves not just shut up rings her tiktok is monica millington but have a listen to what she says about shut up moves now shut up moves are basically any action that a man will take to get you to shut up in the same vein as a shut up ring and if you don't know what a

shut up ring is it's basically when you have been in a relationship for long enough and the woman is saying why haven't you proposed to me why aren't you proposing and the man eventually proposes not by his own free will but because he thinks it will get her to shut up and he can just live his life in peace if he marries her so in this commenter situation the guy is moving in with her just to get her to stop talking about moving in and more importantly getting her to stop talking about the future and getting her to stop talking about where's this going when are we getting married What's our future look like? Do we want kids? What's our plan? And I think as women, we get roped into these things and we think that they're good things in the beginning because we're like,

oh my God, we finally got what we wanted. He's finally doing it. He's finally proposing. He's finally moving in. He's finally making moves for our future. But this is so problematic because it's a short-term solution for long-term pain because it's not genuine. It's not authentic. It's not coming from a place of wanting to build lives together. I think that this is a really interesting concept and like as much as you know everything now when it comes to relationships has a term and has a way in which to explain it but I think a lot of people would have experienced this whether it be in their current relationship or past relationships and I cannot tell you the amount of questions we get in from people who are saying you know I've been with my partner for

x amount of years I really want to get married and he hasn't met me there yet or I don't know how to bring it up with him or we've talked about it and talked about it and yet he's made no attempt or no initiation to kind of actually take a step in that direction and I think there's a big question here around knowing where the line is between badgering and nagging someone into doing the things that you want them to do to progress your life and showing someone and explaining to someone the things that you want so that you're on the same page and I think it's a really like it's an interesting thing about kind of unpacking where does that line sit. I feel quite uncomfortable when I listen to this. And the reason is I completely understand what women are saying

when they're like, oh, I've received shut up rings or shut up moves, or they do this just to keep me quiet. And then it falls apart later because I said, you know, you've got to propose or I'm leaving. Like I've put five years of my life in, propose or I'm leaving. There's an ultimatum. It's an ultimatum. And at the end of the day, ultimatums are really negative and really detrimental in a relationship. And I think it's quite a last ditch effort to be trying to hold onto something or get something that you want. But the reason I feel a bit uncomfortable with it is I don't want this conversation to be about blaming men. Like I have pushed you and pushed you and pushed you and you're not doing it. So then you do it and then I get fucked over. At the end of

the day, there's two people here in a relationship. Maybe you want different things, but if you have pushed and pushed, we're just going to use the proposal, right? We're going to talk about the ring. If you have said to your partner, I just want to get married and I'm sick of waiting. So if you don't propose by six months, I'm done. I'm going to go find someone who will marry me. And when I did a deep dive, there were so many of these like Reddit threads, so many discussion groups, so many people. I was shocked at how many people were putting those ultimatums to their partner and then complaining that it didn't work. Of course, it's not going to work. An ultimatum like that about proposing by a certain day is a manipulation. It is literally saying you have to

have the extreme version of me. Like we have to completely get married or you're getting nothing. So, of course, these people are going to be panicked and manipulated and bullied into that situation. But I think you have to ask yourself, do I really want to get what I want because I've pushed that person into a corner? Yeah, I feel a little bit, I don't feel like, whoa, like, whoa is the men who get manipulated by their female spouses. I'm not saying that, but I think there's, I don't think we can just blame one of the sexes in these situations. No, I don't. But I, we're speaking predominantly heterosexual relationships here. obviously every relationship is very, very different. But I think when you have given

six years or seven years of your life or eight years or 10 years of your life to a relationship and you have communicated from day dot that marriage and children, whatever the traditional goals that you have in your life are for where you want your life to be, you've communicated that and you have been given the belief that those things will exist in your relationship with that person but you wait and you wait and you wait there comes a place where I understand why people feel as though they need to give an ultimatum because they're at their wits ends they're like well we've had this conversation now for seven years and nothing's happened and it's a big deal to feel as though you're just going to walk away like as as a woman who's in that place who's like

okay I've given seven years of my life to this relationship I want to marry you I want to spend my life with you you have said you want those things with me so when's it happening what's the problem here and I think that there are a lot of guys who are happy to just coast and the reason for that is is also because they don't need to worry about their biological clock they're not thinking oh I've just taken her fertility window they're like well you know like I'm not feeling it yet but I'll just wait and see yeah some people do have this really casual perspective to relationships and that's okay that's not a bad thing but it is a bad thing if you've led someone to believe the alternate that's why I understand why some women give men ultimatums but just

because I understand it doesn't mean that I believe that ultimatums will work out favorably. I think the big thing to kind of unpack here is how do you know if you're someone who has been waiting for a really long time, or if you're someone who does feel as though you're constantly asking for a thing in your relationship, how do you know that the actions of your partner isn't just a shut up ring or a shut up move? Like what would be the defining key things that make you go, okay, I don't actually think that this is his behavior. I think he's just done this so that I'll stop asking for this thing that I really want so badly in my life. We're talking about the person that you hopefully will spend the rest of your very long life with.

At the end of the day, do you really want someone that you have to beg and beg and nag and nag and nag and at the end of the day, push them into a corner to make that commitment? Now, I'm not blaming either side here. I'm not saying either thing is right or wrong. I'm just saying, I do think that sometimes we need to be a little bit introspective about what we're asking and how we're asking for it and what we're wanting. Maybe the situation or the person isn't the right person for you. Full stop. Maybe they don't want the same things as you. Full stop. That's a really, really hard thing to objectively look at in your own relationship and go, this person won't give me what I want. And having said that, and I'm going to use like a personal example here for me,

maybe there's a lot of men out there. And again, heterosexual, we're talking men and women. Maybe there's a lot of men out there that don't have a full comprehension or understanding of, like Loretta said, the biological clock or what's important to you. So the reason I say that is I'm 37 next month and you guys know that I don't have a great fertility window, but Ben and I had had these conversations really openly. And this is what I think this all comes back to is just having a really open conversation about your timeline, what you're looking for, what you want, getting an understanding of if they want the same things. And when I had said to Ben, I had sort of explained, I was like, you know, we'd said we want to get married. We said we'd

probably want to have kids one day. And because we don't live together, it's a bit different. We had a timeline and I had to explain to him, I was like, I'd love to get engaged in the next year. He's like, do you feel like there's a rush? Like what's the rush? I said, well, it's not a rush, but there is a timeline. And for me personally, I would like to be married before I had kids. Not the end of the world, but it's how I see it. It's how I would like the next two to three years to go and then I had to explain to him I said well think of the timeline Ben like if I want to have a baby it's probably going to be IVF which could take a while and then a pregnancy is let's just say a year by the time you actually conceive and then usually an engagement

is a year I said all of a sudden that's two and a half three years like that and I was like so these are things you've got to think of and he's like I guess I didn't think of I didn't think of the long timeline I just thought you're getting engaged then you get married and then so I think that that was just an open conversation about how I wanted to see the future and then literally breaking it down to what it looks like and he's like wow I hadn't thought of it like that well I I mean I kind of interpret this whole idea of like a shut up ring maybe a little bit differently and that is is someone might propose and then they have zero initiative or care about actually organizing a wedding or even a date in mind they're like oh no I mean we're not I'm not

worried about the wedding I was just thinking about the proposal and that's because it buys them time within this kind of relationship. I guess my one experience that I can really think about where I know that I was in, it was the wrong relationship, but I wanted it so desperately to work. And there was a shut up move, not a shut up ring. I'd been with my boyfriend for almost six years. My first like really, really long-term relationship, the one I've talked about where I was like convinced that we were going to get married, he was not. But he didn't even know we were dating. He never bought me a present. In five and a half years of our relationship, he never bought me a present I'm talking Christmas no present birthday no present he just never ever

ever bought me anything so weird it's so weird like not even to give you anything nothing but it was also my first big relationship and I was so desperately in love with him that I would have made any excuse like any excuse for anything did he say happy birthday or give you a card did you have dinner he just said I'm not a birthday person like he just did not care I am yeah I know but I remember we got to like the fifth year and my birthday had come and gone again and he'd not bought me anything and so I kicked up a bit of a stink and like each year I would kick up a bit more of a stink there would be a bit more pass out kind of like commentary around it yeah and this year I got really passive-aggressive and I was like you know I feel as though you don't care

you don't make me feel special my birthday you don't do anything you don't buy me anything not that it's about the gifts but you don't give me a card you do nothing that makes me feel special on my birthday and so two weeks later he comes home from work this one day and he'd obviously walked past a store on his way home from work and he bought a necklace at the time I just started Tony May I made jewelry for a job and it was a weird thing to be given a necklace that was one completely not my style and two I knew he just picked it up from the shop that we would walk past on the way home but I know that that was a shut up present he was like see look I think of you I did this as a spontaneous act of gift giving like I'm so great and he in his mind had bought

him some time he didn't buy me another present after that he never put in effort when it came to the next Christmas or anything it was like very much an act just to show that he had listened to that conversation but I do think that there is a very fine line between taking this too seriously because I think we do need to tell our partners what it is that we want in relationships and it is important that you know sometimes we might have to explain to them how we feel or where we want the relationship to go I don't like the idea and there's that saying if they wanted to they would right? I don't like the idea of thinking that every single person you're in a relationship with intuitively knows you well enough that they will just hit the mark every single time. It's not

going to happen. There are going to be times where your partner, no matter how wonderful they are, completely misses the mark and doesn't give you the things that you need in your relationships. And it's okay to have to explain to them what it is that you need to be satisfied. The difference is having to constantly and repetitively ask for the same thing over and over and over for them to only change their behavior for a short period of time to then go back to their default. That's what I think defines a shut up move or a shut up ring. When you go to your relationship, situationship, whatever it is, when you go to them with something

that could result in an ultimatum, like what you're needing, I think you really need to be prepared that their answer might not match yours. It might not end the way you want it to, but you need to be prepared to walk away. So if you're saying you need to propose by this time or I'm done, it can't be a threat because it is a threat, but it has to be something that you're willing to actually go through with. If you are going to back your partner into a corner in any capacity, you have to really mean it and you have to be willing to say, okay, I'm going to walk away. But in saying that, that is still the ultimatum because if somebody, whether they are absolutely going to do it or they're not going to do it, whether it's a real threat or an empty

threat making and giving that ultimatum still means that ultimately the reason why that person might do the moving in or giving of the ring is because of the extreme it's like well if you don't do this thing then you get nothing that's why they're making the move in the first place so I mean it does kind of come back full circle to this reasoning as to why ultimatums are really unhealthy in relationships however sometimes they do have to be made and they have to be made for yourself from a self-preservation perspective but I think it's really really hard when you have committed so much time to someone and to a relationship to just give up when you see so much potential in where it can be and you see so much potential in what you want with that person but I think

there does come a point where you have to be honest with yourself and really question do they have the capacity to give me what I want in life or am I constantly desiring more than what it is that they are offering me, even if they say it, because we all know people can say one thing and then their actions mean very different things. So if your partner's saying, oh yeah, next year we'll get engaged, then next year comes and goes. And then they're like, well, yeah, no, we've been really busy. This has come up, that's come up. It'll be the year after. I think if this behavior has been going on for so long, you have to give yourself a kind of understanding as to what's your timeline going to be. Britt, here's a question for you. How long do you think is an acceptable

time to wait for something that you want? Whether it's moving in with your partner, whether it's getting married. I just think how long is a piece of string. I don't think you can put a timeframe on that. That is so dependent and individual on every single relationship, situationship and the way you feel inside, your boundaries and what you expect and see in your relationship. I don't think you can say it's like, you know, you've waited for six months, that's long enough. It depends on their behaviour when they're in a relationship as well? Like are they blatantly promising you something like next year we're going to do it and then not following through

or is it just a conversation that you haven't really had properly? Has it been up in the air and you're just thinking, oh, it's been six years. It's got to be next year without having the conversation. What it comes down to is what is important to you and what you want from that relationship and is your partner going to give it to you? The only way to find those out is to have those really hard conversations

because time and time again, and I have a really good friend who's still in this situation now, two people make their motives and the way they see their future very clear at the beginning, but one person always doesn't listen. Like they don't match. And one person's always like, I'm going to change them. I know they said, yeah, I know they said they don't want to get married, but I'll be the exception. If we're together four years and we have a kid and they're going to want to get married, or maybe they say they don't want kids. And they've always said that. And then four years in, you're going to be like, well, surely like we've lived together. We're going to spend our life together. Surely they'll want it. And then they get so shocked when they are four years

deep and the partner says, I told you I didn't want them. Yeah. I think that that's a very different situation when, when someone's telling you what they want in their relationship, listen to them. But I think it's the alternate that can be really tricky. And it's the alternate that we've received lots of ask and cuts on. It's when someone's promising something, but their actions don't actually come through with the thing that they're saying that they want. And I think for me, there is a timeline. I know that that's going to be different for every person, but I don't think now I know in my 20s I would have waited a long time man I waited six years right like I waited and I was so hopeful that he would one day come around and propose to me and

one of the big things I wanted but I do think as you get older potentially that timeline gets shorter because I know that you know when I met Matt I wouldn't have stayed in a relationship with him if he wasn't clear that he was on the same page with the things that I wanted and actually followed through with actions, not just words with those things. And I think that that's really important for everyone to assess, like what is your timeline? And then what is the timeline that you will accept from your partner? Because no one wants to be in a relationship where they feel as though they have to badger or nag that person to fulfill the things that's going to make them happy in life. Because ultimately, as we know, it won't make you happy anyway. It is time for our suck and

our sweet of our week, our highs and our lows. Guys, you know my suck of the week. I don't think I need to go into that again. But my sweet of the week is we went down on the weekend to Wollongong and took my mom and my auntie out for a lunch. And it was honestly like my mom needed it so much, but it was just such a nice time to go out and like spend time with family to like reminisce about the good things from our childhood. And we went to the restaurant that I used to work at, that I've spoken about before, the seafood restaurant in Wollongong. Where you used to eat food off plates and stuff. Yeah, where I used to stand in the back of the kitchen

and eat the scraps off everyone's seafood platter. But now I'm at a point in my life where I could buy the seafood platter. So that was like, it was a real full circle moment for me. Oh, how the turntables. How the turns of table. So that was my suite. Yeah, and also the kids are on the other side of gastro. It's really like shit turned a corner this week.

What a time to be alive in the burn household. Well, was it? I don't know. It was a particular. Oh, my God, that was such a bag. What a time to be alive, you nandine. Just when I think I can't put my foot in it anymore, I always find a way.

Time to be alive except for Laura Stan. Except for Nan. Oh, my God. She'd be, look, she would laugh. She's fine. She likes a good joke. She loved a good giggle, that old Shirley May. Rest in peace, Shirley.

Yeah, I think it's been a particularly downer week for us. But there's always, even in the shittiest moments, there's always little sweets that you can hold on to. Yeah. That's it. Mine is same, Delilah. little turd burger she's really been the band in my existence this week so not gonna lean into that anymore and my suite probably similar to last week where I told you my suck was that my little

nephew was here having an operation because he's only one they have to hang around for two weeks because you have to be close to the hospital so I got to spend some really good time with my sister in law and my two nephews one the one that's had the operation because he's out of hospital and my now two-week-old nephew. You just posting photos with a newborn baby is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. It's like I felt weird. What am I holding?

He's just so long and gangly and I just look at him all the time and I'm like, what do I do with you? I'll just hold you. And then I'm like, wow. That's what you do with them, just hold them. But I don't even need to. I just put him down in a blanket and he's so fine. I left for eight hours and came back and he was still fine.

That's a joke, everyone. That's what we call comedy in the business. But it was really sweet because I, whenever, I've got a lot of nieces and nephews actually. One, two, three, oh, like seven or eight of them or something. I can't even count them anymore. But I never get to spend that much time with them, especially when they're little because none of them live here. So usually you go and visit and you see them for 10 minutes or whatever and it's busy.

What was it like being around a newborn for prolonged periods of time? All I can think of is how much respect I have for mums. Do you know what I thought? How the fuck does Laura do it? that's what I thought why how do you do anything and I don't but no that's my point like when you're running businesses and you've got a newborn and you're trying to live your life and you're trying to I all I could think of and he was fine he just laid there and slept but my mind got very carried away I was like wow mums are amazing like they just do so much stuff because I'm you guys forget

well you don't forget I tell you all the time but I'm mid to late 30s now and I have spent my whole life with no kids and even when I have a partner, they're not here. So the amount of free time that I have to have a nap or maybe I want to go to the gym in 10 minutes or I want to have a sauna or I want to go for a walk or I'm meeting my friends for dinner. It's an absolute anomaly. It's such an unbelievable novelty being able to live life whenever you want to live life. I'm so selfish with my time because I've never had to give it to anyone. I haven't been forced to give it to anyone else. So it's a, for me, I've lived 37 years like that. So it's, it's a real shock to the system when I have to consider someone else. On the flip side of that, I had one of those days

yesterday, and I think every parent will relate to this. I had one of those days where 6.30 came around and all I wanted to do was get my children into bed. I was like my life. No, just like, I just was like wishing away the hours for bedtime because it was just a hard day. And I was like, I cannot wait. I love them. They're amazing. I cannot wait until they're asleep. Until they're 18. I cannot wait until they move out. I can't wait till they get married and someone takes them off my hand. Anyway, guys, that is it from us. Look, tomorrow's episode, as we said, it is with hospice nurse Julie. It's a really beautiful episode. I think whether you have lost someone, you have someone going through palliative care, whether you have elderly

grandparents or, you know, even if you just have parents, because at some point you are going to lose someone who you love that is a horrible reality of life but it is truly a beautiful episode and I think everybody will learn something for it and it will give you a bit of comfort as well as to how to deal with things in your own life but also how to support and help the people around you who might be going through something don't forget tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog to your friends and share the love because we love We'll be right back.