Life Uncut - Surviving an eruption with Kelsey Waghorn

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

Hey Lifers! It's our favourite day of the week and boy do we have a big one for you.  First up today, Laura lost her shit at a family on a boat over the weekend but you might agree with her reasons. We unpack why some of y'all are dating people who look like they could be your siblings #siblingsordating and why it may not be as weird as it sounds. Then we are joined by Kelsey Waghorn. Kelsey was a tour guide on Whakaari/White Island - the volcano that erupted in 2019 and claimed the lives of 22 people. Kelsey suffered severe burns to her body, and has had to relearn to walk and become comfortable in her new skin. Kelsey speaks incredibly vulnerably about how it's not the physical recovery, despite that being incredibly challenging, but rather the mental recovery from such a traumatic event that she has found difficult. Kelsey's resilience is inspiring and we feel very fortunate to have spoken with her. You can follow Kelsey's journey here: https://www.instagram.com/kezzelsify/?hl=enJust a little reminder to hit subscribe so that the podcast is in your libraries as soon as we drop an episode. This will avoid bad reception or wifi issues!Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because we love love! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode of the podcast was recorded on Gadigal land of the Eora Nation. Hey guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. And I'm Laura, and last week I gave y'all some homework. You did? I did, and I'm wondering if anybody actually went and watched it.

Well, I did, but I did before you gave me the homework, so I did it a little while ago. Okay, well you get a gold star. For anybody else, I did tell you all that we were interviewing Kelsey Waghorn, who is from a Netflix documentary. It's called The Volcano Rescue from Whakaari, and it's all about the White Island volcano eruption that happened in New Zealand. Now, Kelsey is a survivor of the volcano eruption and she speaks so openly and so rawly about her experience, about her recovery, but not just her physical recovery, also her mental recovery as well. It's just not something anyone is ever going to experience.

It's like incomprehensible. Well, it's so hard to, I think that there's so many times, and we talk about this, but there's so many times in life that you go through something and you reach out to a support group or there's other people that can help you through that situation. I think for Kelsey, there's not a huge group of people that survived something as traumatic as a volcano eruption. And, you know, she had a lot of repercussions from that. And we do get into that. It's a truly humbling story. You don't have to have seen the documentary to listen to this episode. But I can guarantee you, after this episode, you're going to want to go back and watch the documentary.

Before we get into speaking to Kelsey, though, there is something else that we wanted to talk about. There has been research that has gone into why is it that people like to date people who look almost the same as them? Why do we want to date our siblings? I love the people that put the funding into this. Somebody has funded this study. Someone has said, we need to know why people date people that look like their brother and sister. I wonder if it was the Instagram siblings or dating. Probably.

I just had this thought now. You went away to Hamilton Island. It looked magnificent. Keisha, producer Keisha went away to Melbourne, had an amazing wedding, amazing time. I don't think I spoke to another human the whole weekend. You had dinner with someone last night. I literally was messaging you about work and you were like,

sorry, can't do it now, I'm at dinner. Until Sunday night at my house. I just had one of those weekends where I was like, I'm not going to speak to anyone this weekend. I hung out with my dog. I actually think that that's great. Every so often it's nice to just go for like an extended period of time where you're like I am not speaking to another human oh yeah I don't say it like have sympathy

for me I love shutting down sometimes like I love going into a little hermit box like if I were an animal I'd probably be a hermit crab I would think but like with a big lush shell but that's that's sort of with like a Gucci shell that has some sort of branding on the outside I would have like my Givenchy shell and then I would upgrade to the Gucci no I in my wildest dreams I would love that The only person I spoke to really was the lady from the store, from the Coco Whip store. So I have a new addiction, Laura. Coco Whip. Have you tried it?

It's like, yeah, I mean, I have. Am I addicted to it? No. Have I tried it? Yes. I'm addicted. Like as in frozen yogurt, coconut frozen yogurt. Yeah.

It's organic. So it's so healthy. Except too much of a good thing is still too much. I mean, it's still, it's still like 10 tablespoons of sugar, I think, but it's across the road for me very conveniently. it's my new thing that i'm doing every single day so you know what i like every single day well you know last time i had this addiction because this is also what i do i find one thing i have it every day for like four months so it was yes recently the last year it was spinach sausage rolls from

the health food emporium and brit was like because they're from the health food emporium they're healthy and i reckon she would eat two a day like she'd come home with just two brown paper bags and then often she would buy like four of them two for herself one for me and keisha i didn't even like them they were actually fucking awful every day every day yeah which was very generous of you but it was almost like you wanted other people to get involved in your addiction to sausage rolls and now I feel like we're there with the cocoa whip which I'm okay with because I like cocoa whip you will eat this sausage roll and then I upgraded I've started to eat the meat sausage roll because the veggie sausage roll wasn't enough anyway I've transitioned I haven't had a sausage roll for a

while I weaned myself off them and they were really surprised I went in one day they were like just a sausage roll and I was like no can't do it anymore and they were like what are you okay are you unwell but it's the Coco Whip now and that's what I'm doing it's like when you go so hard on a song like you really like a song and then you play it non-stop and then all of a sudden one day you just get the ick for that song and you can't play it again because you've done it so many times but going back to Saucy Drolls just one second I don't know why this is what we're talking about but like I'm gonna go with it last week we did radio out at our you know the ARN studios we're out of Macquarie Park and every Thursday they load up they've got like these what's the

brand the guy was from the bachelor a galo's pies jackson garlic who remember there was that big scene on the bachelor and the bachelor with angie kent where he brought her a pie he took her to the pie shop and she was a vegan okay well we have two like of those like little hot what are they the little pie ovens there's two pie ovens at the radio station right and every thursday they load them up with pies and we can go we can have a free pie anyway well it's like the highlight of the week and that's what we used to do like last year when we were doing radio we'd go and get a pie every week so it was Friday we'd just done our radio show and I went and I was like oh there's pies in the oven and I went and I got one I was like oh it's a bit cold but fine fucking bit into

it and realized it was yesterday's sausage roll that had been sitting in there since the Thursday and I was like had this moment where I was like do I swallow this you did though for sure I did because I was in the foyer and Daisy was sitting anyway how we've managed to get onto a long five minute conversation about sausage rolls is beyond me but um yeah that was my experience okay never again okay so how was Hamilton Island Hamilton Island was the absolute freaking best it was also very hot very muggy peak wet season but it was beautiful now I feel like I'm having a real Drew Barrymore moment though because in sorry in what capacity never been kissed or in that it was Lola's birthday Lola's second birthday and we decided that we were not going to do

presents so we did no presents for Lola this year but we took her she's two she's got no idea it could be a problem when she's eight but we took her to Hamilton Island and we had like the most beautiful family time together but it wasn't until the Sunday when a lot of our friends and family were like oh it's Lola's like everyone forgot because we didn't put it on us because we didn't put on social media so it's my it was my nephew's birthday on Lola's birthday too so they're born on the same day cute yeah cute did you remember your nephew's birthday yes I did okay well now next year it's going to make it so easy for you to remember so here's the question do you think you're setting like a scary precedent for your children's birthdays if Lola's second birthday

you took her to Hamilton Island what does Marley get for her birthday and what do you do every year now like I reckon you've got to wind it back go back to the Tonka truck I guess the way that we're going to approach this is kids don't get presents if there's a big holiday on their birthday but if there isn't and we're not doing anything particularly special then they can have presents will that come back and bite us in the ass i don't know maybe but like we're just like we don't know what we're doing when it comes to this parenting thing and we're absolutely just kind of throwing caution to the wind and doing our best do you think you'd ever give them a choice and say no we can go away for the weekend or you can have presents or do you think because you're gonna

want the holiday anyway you're like this is what we're doing so it was like pack your suitcase the present was for us let's be real yeah like when i bought that massage hot massage kit for my boyfriend at the time for a present but I just wanted him to massage me back it's the same thing yeah it is the same thing okay but something happened on this holiday and I kind of want I don't even know if I want your opinion on it but it was the most outrageous parenting thing I've ever experienced and I was filled with so much fucking rage from this that I need to tell you and I also like want everybody else to kind of dm me and tell me what you would have done in this instance okay well I can just listen if you don't want my opinion no I would love your input okay so

we went out on, we had amazing day trip, went on a beautiful boat. It was phenomenal. And it was an organized trip. There were quite a few families on this trip and it was like, we're on a boat, zero phone reception. But while we were sitting there, Matt and I kept on getting something airdropped to us, like airdrop after airdrop after airdrop. And this sounds really dumb, but at the time I didn't realize that you could change your settings in your phone so that you can't like as in turn airdrop receiving off so I was just cancelling them but Matt thinking it was funny was accepting the airdrops right and they were just pictures of these kids being silly sending selfies like really silly stuff and Matt was like look if someone's gonna send me an airdrop

I'm gonna accept it anyway this went on the boat ride was two hours it went on for about half an hour of the boat ride some other kid has stolen his parents phone some kid maybe it's his own phone who knows they're like 14 year old kids and there was a group of 14 year old kids on the boat like this little group of boys right so it wasn't an accident I'm picturing a two-year-old no no no no no this was like and it was like incessantly sending you couldn't open your phone without having an airdrop request pop up every two seconds right and so instantly I was like oh it's those it's that group of boys like they are the culprit it's the little turd burgers and I definitely made that assumption without like going and checking the boat or anything I was like it's

that group I made that assumption pretty quickly anyway about 20 minutes passed and I gave my phone to Marley because I'd loaded up Cocomelon I loaded up some other like things for her to watch and she's watching the pre-loaded videos because there was nothing else like there was no reception so we couldn't get onto the internet which is important to this story I could see that the airdrops were still coming through and she was accepting some of the airdrops and I kept going back in to turn it off and to like go back to the video that she was watching and then I saw this one thing pop up and it was a video that was playing, the kids had started to airdrop hardcore fucking porn.

Hardcore. And I'm not, I'm like. I just got goosebumps. It was revolting, the porn that they were dropping, right? And it had popped up on the screen in front of Marley. So she had seen a couple of seconds of it before I saw what it was. And I grabbed the phone and I obviously turned it off. But Matt and I had had a conversation prior where Matt was like,

do not go and say anything to their parents. Like we're on this fucking boat with them. like do not go and say a thing i'm sorry you i hope you stormed over there mate as soon as i saw this pop up i was like i am shaking now i was filled with rage i'm so mad still and the more i talk about it the madder i get yeah so i went up to this family actually matt matt did it first i made him because i was so enraged that matt was like okay i'll go so he went up and spoke to the parents he spoke to the two dads first and it was a big group so it was a big group of kids and a big group of parents and he went out and spoke up to two of the dads that were standing off to the

side and just said hey your kids are airdropping some pretty inappropriate stuff to us like I just want to make you aware of this and they kind of like laughed it off until Matt showed them one of the videos and like the video was I can't even just I won't even describe it because it was so unbelievably repulsive right I can imagine Matt also being very diplomatic and careful at the start so diplomatic yeah that's so polite so like non-accusatory anyway hey just so you know like my two-year-old's watching I got porn because of your son so yeah and also this is content that they had to have had on the phone because there was no internet reception so it wasn't like they were downloading it it was already there true anyway so good detective work they didn't take

it seriously then the mother came over to me because I was like hey no this is something you need to address the mother came over to me and then started to accuse me of like why did we assume that it was their children like have you gone around the boat have you checked that anyone else she was like how do you know it's my kids and I felt the rage go through the fucking roof did you have a mum fight I had a mum fight she was defending her 14 year old boys and I was like you need to reprimand your children for just sending my three-year-old hardcore porn or go up and just say can I please look at your phone so anyway she ended up taking the phone well the dad did and he went through the phone and he came up to us about 15 minutes later and he was like

really casual about it he was like hey so sorry about that uh yeah look one of the videos was on my son's phone so I guess it was them haha teenagers hey and I cannot accept that this is just teenagers so do you okay no okay here we go here we go is this just teenagers is that like how do you as a parent not know that that's what your teenager has loaded onto their phone no I don't know I know I get it yes I get that this is a thing that teenagers would do in terms of they're curious they're going to download porn they're going to watch porn I get that but it is not just oh just teenagers you can't brush that off when they are sending that to other people because they think it's entertaining like that is different but I think that a 14 year

old 15 year old is going to be looking at porn I don't think you can avoid that but you can go and reprimand your child and say you know what I get you curious you're going to look at it that's fine but you can't go and force that onto someone else especially when there's a two-year-old on the phone I think for me it was the type of porn so this porn was very and like you know just very much trigger warning here for anybody who this is going to be too much for. So this porn was very much rape culture porn. And so to me, I'm like, if your child has that on their phone and you don't take that seriously, like that is not just boys will be boys. That is not just all teenagers will be teenagers. That is absolutely fucking frightening. And it makes me

think like, what are these 14 year old boys thinking about women, thinking about how women want to enjoy sexual experiences? How do they respect women or girls their own age? There was so much more loaded into this 15 minute encounter that for me as a parent of really young children who I know will become teenagers one day was really frightening that is different that changes things if it's not just like this is curiosity no if it's not just like I don't want to say standard sex but if it if it's not just seven minutes missionary I don't want to hear about it like I mean missionary is one thing but no when you add in that it's a rape culture style porn I mean that of course that changes things and they're sending because they think it's funny

we don't know that they think the rape culture is funny we know they think sending porn and making someone uncomfortable is funny but the fact that at 14 when you are so impressionable and that is what you are learning and that is when you are developing your interests and what you think is okay the way you respect people the way you navigate that life if that is what they're choosing to watch over anything else extremely problematic yes that is something the parents need to talk about and i think that you in this case were completely in the right these parents were obviously completely in the wrong and if they if they parents laugh this off it's an indication of why the kids think that this is okay like you learn from your surroundings and

like the five people you're closest to so if your parents who you're learning from think that this is okay I don't know what I hope the kid's gonna have I mean maybe they didn't think okay maybe it was one of those situations where it's like they want to have a nice day with their kids they've taken them out on this experience and it's like to reprimand them would just mean that everyone has a terrible time so it's kind of like well like look it's unfortunate let's put it off to the side but I don't know there was a part of me that felt even more frustrated that they hadn't taken it more seriously that was my okay that that was like something that happened on the weekend the trip was literally a trip of a lifetime it was phenomenal but that was just such a parenting

moment where I was like wow there's a right way and a wrong way and I feel like this was handled so badly I am just picturing what my dad like they call him big tones big Tony I call him for a reason he's a big boy Papa Hockley he's just the more oh my god my dad's the best but he would gone off some would have been overboard like that he that would not have flown well no look Matt very much he stood up to the plate after it kind of escalated but it was more so just I know it's human nature and parenting nature to want to defend your children like you never want to think the worst of them but like it was such an unusual experience I never ever thought I would be in that situation and I don't know how I would have responded if I was on the other side but I

think they would have responded quite differently i would like to think that these parents were probably embarrassed a level of embarrassment didn't want to make maybe a big scene like you said and let's all hope that they went up to the kids and we're like we're gonna deal with this later i'm gonna yeah i'm gonna call him by the ear but like let's i'm not gonna cause a scene right now but let's never having a phone again or sex ever no no well speaking of parenting my brother had a baby on the weekend he obviously he didn't but his fiance kim did so my brother Dane and his partner Kim had a baby so I'm an auntie again which is very nice very cute I want to gauge your opinion no I know what you're doing here and I'm not okay with this I don't like that

you have waited until we're on record to tell me the name which makes me think that I'm gonna have adverse feelings towards no the child had had no choice in this it's not their fault whatever your brother named their child it's not your child it's one of those names that gonna be like I'm gonna sparkle or fucking cupcake or something isn't it it's one of those names that like at the start you're like okay okay unusual but then i think it grows on you okay so that happened with my niece same family my niece she's six so six years ago so i don't think this name was as common then six or seven years ago pick her name's pixie and i like that that's great i remember when they were like it's pixie sherry and i were like oh that's nice but we didn't but we hadn't heard it

a lot and it was unusual but like you know a month later she's never going to be anything else it's pixie and it's adorable and i love it and i think this name's the same this is one of those things right where like whatever you name your child is going to have an impact on who they are and what they grow up to be because it actually influences the way that people speak to them so if you give someone a cutesy name they're never going to be like mrs cupcake who's representing you in the legal services i've met a kid and their name was cupcake and it's thrown me the rest of my life Which is wild. Maybe we need to do a call out for, like, the most unusual names at preschool.

But, yeah, so that's funny that you say that. That, like, it's who they grow into. Because my brother is a big boy. He's six foot two or something. Like, big, broad shoulders. He's tattered. Like, he's a big boy. He's a bear boy.

His fiancée Kim's a beautiful, amazing, but she's very tall as well. So they're going to have tall kids. Yeah. Like, they just are. She ain't going to be a pixie. She's going to be a tall pixie. Yeah. So it's a little boy, and his name is Bear.

Oh, I like that. why do you think that's so weird well it's not i think it's weird but it's unusual to me because i haven't heard it yeah like ra bear like bear b-e-a-r grizzly bear like ra bear cute i'm okay with that do you think it's do you think that he's gonna grow up but he's gonna be an adventurer he's gonna be so tall and his name's bear also very good if he turns out to be gay because it's already sorted for him he'll be the bear well that's the other thing because he's gonna be yeah he's gonna like the grizzly bear that's a gay term isn't it i only know that from your brother yes it is anyway i'm an auntie again and he's absolutely

adorable so i'm gonna go visit probably next week and i'll give you a little update but he's yeah it's fun to be an auntie because i get my mom fix without having to give birth yeah like i see your kids and i see my my nieces and nephews and all my friends have kids and i i get what i need for the minute hey do you want to know an update on that what on the egg freezing situation i think i'm gonna freeze my eggs again yeah how many eggs do you need to freeze as many as you can so i only got 15 which sounds like a lot but it's actually not that many so that could result in maybe four viable yeah they might not actually take four is enough four children but that's only but that's only if they take so then they might not work anyway but um no what i was gonna say is for the

first time ever you know how i always talk about kids and like i'm i've always been more i don't think I want them no like I'm always no no no when we first started this podcast you were always like yes I know I want them and then over the years you were like the more time I spend with your children I think I don't want them and I was like that's really offensive that's a super offensive thing to say but let's go with it but it's got yes that is true but it's also not your kids I'm obsessed with them and they're the best kids it's the it's just the way it changes your life I've always thought I wasn't ready for that oh so it's my life now so it's your it's your entire it's your entire existence so it's actually everything about the way that you live that i hate it's just

all of you in a package i don't want it no i'm joking but it's the you know we all know parenting is a full-time job it is but it's one thing to know it and it's another thing to see it it's one thing for me to sit at home knowing how busy someone is and tired they are and screaming and tantrums but it's another thing when you're there and i've always thought that every time i'm around my friends kids and i'm like i'm not ready for that i don't think i want it for the first time ever now. I don't know if it's an age thing. I don't know if it's Ben, my new partner. I don't know what it is. But for the first time, if I've been on that precipice in the middle and I don't know which way to fall, I'm starting to fall the kid's way. It's because you're newly in love.

No, because it wasn't like that with Jordan. I was still like, I don't think I want them. And I also don't know if it's because this year I'm 36, guys. The truth is out, finally. Daily Mail, put that into your reporting. Well, still 35, technically. okay wait I have a question for you about this I think this is really interesting do you think it partly plays into the fact that Jordan was quite on the opposite side of it so Jordan was very much that he didn't want to have kids or he would do it to make you happy but it wasn't something that he was excited about and I know that this is a personal preference I don't want anyone to think

that just because you have a partner who really wants to have children that you'll change your mind but do you think for you it has had an influence on how you're feeling I genuinely don't think so because I mean yes of course it's going to be some level for sure but I went into that I met Jordan when I was already freezing my eggs I was freezing my eggs because well I wasn't in the situation to have a child and I also didn't want that child yet and I had this conversation with my sister and my friends and you guys for years how do you know when am I going to know I don't think you know like I'm waiting for that time to come where it hits me like a train being like I can't wait to have a baby and it never came so then if I really wanted children and I

started to date someone that didn't that's a bit of a deal breaker for me right if two people are polar opposite with something as big as a life change like children it's not going to work out but it didn't put me off at all when I met Jordan because I wasn't sure myself and I was always like I don't know if I want that whole life change in and it was something I was really working on in myself because it's a it's a scary thought to think you might not want it because there's no going back down the track, like later on in the track. And I, and also when you have to deal with so many people constantly telling you that you will regret it. And even if you don't think that you will, that constant nurse would definitely plant some doubt, plant some fear, if nothing

else. Yeah. And I think a lot of people will understand what I'm saying that that are in my position where they don't think they want them. They'll resonate with what I'm saying, where it is a scary thought, because even though you could almost be sure about something, there's still this little bit of doubt and it's not something you can just change like you down the track in 20 years you can't be like it's not like when you're like I wish I went on that holiday to Iceland I'll just go you can't go back in time and change that situation so it's it puts a lot of pressure on you but for the first time I've changed I think that it's something that I do want in my future now and I'm not saying that I'm I'm having them and I'm excited and I do think maybe it's a thing

where it's I am 35 now and maybe that maternal instinct for me is kicking in a lot later in life but I think yeah I think that's my life update I think I'm rolling over one more question about this if you were not with Ben and you were on your own would you still want to do it do you think that you would ever pursue having children regardless of your relationship status at this stage no right yeah at this stage no I would be okay if it happened of course and you'd make it work but I still don't think it's a choice I'd go down my whole being doesn't want it enough to go down that track alone well then maybe it does have this massive influence the fact that you're in a relationship now with someone who wants kids in their future it has helped to push

you within a direction where you're seeing that as part of your future because I had the same thing with Matt I didn't ever have that maternal push I really didn't but I knew Matt really wanted to have kids and for him that was a huge deal breaker if I said I didn't want to have children we would never have been together I never felt strongly either way so it wasn't a case that I got into a relationship with him and it forced me to have children it was that because I was with him well I could see myself then having kids more than I could say a year prior and now I couldn't see my life without children but I know that everybody's experience around that is so different and that's why we've done an episode on being childless by choice because I think it's so important that for

people who know that they don't want children that they feel represented but also not just represented respected in their decisions yeah and I know Ben it's early days it's a couple of months but I know Ben as a person we've spoken about it enough to know you know like do you want kids do you not like we talk about that stuff he's a bit like me too he's like if you adamantly didn't want them that would be okay he's like but I've always sort of just seen them in my life so he's also not strongly wanting them but when I look at him and I think this is something any woman thinks about when they start to date somebody whether it's a woman or a man do you look at them in that parental light do you think that that would be a good parent a good dad or a good mom

and I know he would be a great dad he's so gentle and kind and there's a part of me that's like oh I can if I went down that track with that person one day I can see that it would be a really good situation so there might be a little part of that too where I'm like oh and also would you make a good team I think is the biggest thing yeah well before we get into speaking to Kelsey on today's episode there was one more thing that I wanted to talk to you about Britt and it is a an article that came out in psychology today pedestrian also did a piece on it but it's all around how there are now scientific reasons as to why we seem to choose people who look like us i mean you know the whole instagram account siblings or dating no i do know it you also know that people think

that matt and i look like we could be related yes i actually has crossed my mind before to be fair i think that every single guy i've ever had a long-term relationship with looks like they could be my brother well so maybe this is a thing maybe oh no it's a thing maybe science is doing its job and being science and there's a reason behind it that was the most profound thing that you said science is doing its job and it is doing science but that's funny you say that like the whole you just said you know this is this is article that says there's a scientific reason then you're like hang on a minute everyone i've dated look like my brother well everybody actually nobody i've dated has looked like my brother but everybody i've dated has kind of

looked like myself which i think is way more problematic than dating someone who you look like you're related to the thing is you don't look at you and Matt and think that you look the same but if you did take a step back and look you're like okay I can see similarities like yes there could be a relation well okay this has always been something that's kind of floated around the nether like people have made the comment and this is not about me specifically but people have made the comment that often we are attracted to people who look similar to us or people will end up dating people who look almost the same I mean look at the couple who are on maths at the moment who literally look like they could be related yeah and remember you

I don't watch maths so I don't know but remember there was this big thing all the lifers will remember but there was that big thing that everyone said that I was dating Jordan and Jordan looked like you yeah remember they did a they did a comparison and they were and they put a beard on me so yeah you're the person I see the most in my life and I started dating you like maybe there is something to it okay well I wanted to break down some of the reasons that psychology today has given as to why we are attracted to people who look similar to us yeah now straight off the back one of them I mean and this is pretty obvious I think it's called a group biases so the reason for this is that we are attracted to people who are of similar race to us so like the same

race we're attracted to people who are from our own communities who look similar to us in that vein I think that this one though is a bit more self-explanatory because often we live in communities where say if you're anglo-saxon you live with anglo-saxon people within Australia yeah I think that's a blanket statement totally people who are latino often end up dating latinos not just because you live around each other but because all your close networks your friends your families you know often the people who are surrounded by you and in your communities are of a similar race just by circumstance yeah whereas i was always like a fly to a flame what's that thing that's not it i'm off to a fly to a one day old pizza i was like a flat to a pizza yeah that's a good one

I was a fly to a pizza with people that couldn't be more different to me. So maybe I would lay outside the box. But everyone I know, that is a thing. Yeah, people are attracted to people that are very similar to them. So there's another thing called implicit egotism. So that is- Okay, break that down for us. Implicit egotism is kind of that we are attracted to people who look similar to us because we

like to see ourselves reflected back in that other person, which sounds so monumentally fucked. That's where the ego part comes in. But there was a research study that was done and basically they used AI to morph the face. So they gave like, they did tests, right? They gave all these different facial options and the facial option that the person, the participant found the most attractive was the person who had at least 20% of their own facial features morphed onto it.

So that's great. We always say you need to love yourself. You need to look in the mirror and be like, you are beautiful. You can do this. so okay the thing that's interesting about this though is that it would almost imply that we should then be attracted to our siblings if that's the case but it's like people in this study were attracted to people who looked like them not even just looked like them like had physical features that were identical to theirs because of this AI technology but as soon as that research group

were told that they were doing a study on incest they instantly found those people not attractive So like when they were shown other options that had that 20% face morph. So it's not about like wanting to date your brother. It's just about that. We like to see things mirrored back because that's a face or a feature that we have become so familiar with. You know, it's, it's a feature that looks safe to us, not just from an egotistical point of view.

Well, I think that leans into the fact why they say a lot of women date men or look for men with characteristics of their dad. And now obviously that's not everyone, but a lot of women seek out somebody and it's not because they look like their dad but it's because they have this close relationship with a dad they usually would like have a level of respect and love and they they seek out someone that has these daddy values but it's not this weird daddy issues thing it's just that like so I I know I would do it because I love the way my dad's morals and I love the way he goes about his life his work and his family and he's so I've always sought out someone that has that and it's

been a problem in the past people have been like I'm not your dad and I'm like well you should be Because my dad would never say that. Okay, well, this is actually one of them, is that we are attracted to people who, if not reflecting ourselves back, who reflect our parents. If we have healthy attachment relationships with our parents, which kind of sounds like some sort of messed up Freudian situation where, you know, boys want to date their mummies

and we want to date our daddies, which also is weird because people say that I'm kind of similar to Matt's mum. So, like, I'm having a lot... Hang on, are you his sister or his mum? I'm definitely not his sister. we look very different I think I'm more Matt's mum than I am his sister which is kind of weird but anyway we can kind of move past that but it's totally a thing where if you have a strong emotional connection to your parents and they've laid that blueprint for like what a healthy

relationship should be then we tend to seek out people who are similar and maybe even look similar to our parents as well yeah I'm about that anything else yeah okay so one of the other ones I thought was really interesting is there's another thing called game theory which I think makes total sense because when you think people date of all different levels of hotness okay hear me out here so theoretically there are the hottest people in society and then there are less hot people as it kind of goes on right but people seem to date other people who match their level of hotness right someone has actually done a research study into this and the reason behind it is because it's kind of like the top of the food chain if everybody went for the hottest person

the option would be so minimal like there was not that many people to choose from so we tend to go for people who are like for like we tend to date people or be attracted to people who look similar to us in terms of our social or theoretical hotness if that makes sense it's funny you say that except for some men who have inflated self egos and date really hot chicks well I'm going to speak on behalf of like a group of my friends we've had these conversations many times uh when we're online dating right a lot of my friends have said that they were like they'll look at someone and I'll say I would never swipe them or I'd never ask them out I would say why and they're like they're too hot they're like I wouldn't want to date someone that good looking and there's a

real general consensus that a lot of women want to date somebody that they think is less attractive but like personality funny and everything but less attractive because they don't feel as attractive when they're with someone that's hotter and this is not like a one-off I have had so many friends say that oh he's too he's too ripped like he's got he's too hot I would just feel like inadequate next to him and I find that really interesting because I've always shot my shot way higher I've always gone I was like I ain't got nothing to lose because what are they going to do say no like if I could go for that 10 I'm going to try no I am I completely agree with the general consensus of other women like I mean I think Matt is like a very very attractive man would I have

sought him out had we met in a different circumstance probably not or had I met him on a dating site or something I don't think I would have thought that we would have been compatible and maybe that makes me seem like I have a low self-esteem but I don't it doesn't come down to self-esteem for me what it comes down to is this assumption that really hot people will be arrogant or they'll know that they're hot or they won't be as funny or because they've been so good looking. They haven't had to work on their personality. So I guess I have had this like bias towards really hot people in the past and they haven't been the people that I've been attracted to. Yeah. But mine's also not about the way I view myself. Cause I'm not a 10. I know that

I know. You are a 10. So shut up. That's so annoying to listen. Everyone listening to this is annoyed by that. But listen, my point is I don't do it because I think I'm hot. I do it because if there's a chance I could bang Brad Pitt, I'm going to take it. Like, because if you're not scared of failure it doesn't matter like if you're not scared of failure no and I'm not scared of failure so I think if if Brad Pitt's there right this has happened remember Channing Tatum I saw him on Raya I super liked this shit out of Channing Tatum which was embarrassing because you kept super liking him and he was like go away well yeah well I was like maybe it got lost in the mail I don't know I'm gonna do it again okay let's just wind it back I super liked

him twice over a long time that is all that is a lot of super liking if any guy super liked me twice I'd be like slow down buddy I got it the first time and I'm not interested my point is like I've dated all different people that look all different ways but I just think it's not because I think I deserve it and I'm hot but I'm like if there's any chance that I could go to bed with Brett I'm gonna do it okay the last one I want to talk to you about is something called empathetic mimicking right so apparently this means that sometimes we will date someone who doesn't actually look like us but over time because you spend so much time together because you start to like the same things because like your interests start to merge you literally

yeah and i'm looking at you britney hockley you literally start to look like your partner because you are morphing into them because of similar likes similar everything you start wearing their clothes yeah fuck i went into brit's house the other day and she had a fucking football jersey hanging up in the bathroom and i was like oh here we go it's empathetic mimicking happening she's turning into ben i don't want hang on a minute i don't actually wear that as my fashion i just do okay you say wait no no i will put money on the fact that in at least six months time you'll forget this conversation you will upload a story to instagram and you will be out going for a fucking walk you'll be going out to lunch and you'll be wearing a football jersey i'm gonna

do it money i'm gonna do money i'm gonna do it tomorrow money on the table let's go okay let's All right. We have a couple of absolutely fricking hilarious stories that have come in. And there was one that I wanted to read to you guys straight off the bat because holy dick, this is great. We did a call out a couple of weeks ago for some dating disaster stories. And now we've all got a dating disaster story, but this one truly hit home. I went on a date with a fireman who bragged about taking me for a spin in his fire truck after dinner. When we got to the fire station, he made a big deal about it and he lifted me up into the truck and he put a fireman hat on my head and told me I could ring the siren.

He then went back to the truck, reversed about three metres and then drove it forward again back into the station. And he turned to me and said, so how was that? I thought he was kidding. So I started to laugh. But then he turned off the ignition and he got out. He genuinely thought that the three metre reverse in his truck was taking me for a spin.

I feel like he has had so many small children that he's had like, been like, this is how we do it. And he kind of is infantising women. Also, how patronising he is by like, I'll lift you up like you can't get into the truck, you little child. And do you want to ring the bell? Like, I'm sorry, I'd be hot out of there. If anything's going to keep your panties on, it's a man who says, put my little hat on

and ring the bell, sweetie. Like, where's the part where you take your shirt off and hose yourself down and we take a calendar picture? He just went from being like a hot fireman to being a daddy all of a sudden, which was for some people that might actually get them off. But you know what? Not this person. I'm just not sure when that ever worked for him, though.

Maybe it has in the past and therefore he. Like what grown woman is going to get off on a fire truck? Okay. Do you know what this makes me think though? It makes me think that he was like, I'm going to take you for a spin in my fire truck. But legally he's actually not allowed to take the fire truck out. So that's why he only drove it down the driveway and back. I reckon he's just a volunteer and he's probably stolen the keys.

He's not even allowed in it. That's what I reckon. Okay. My one is we got sent in a screenshot. We got sent in a dating profile screenshot and there's a picture of two women having drink two friends obviously and he has written to her and said I'm changing the names he's written to her and said hey Sarah is your friend in the pic single because she looks nice so he's added Sarah and matched and then asked about this the friend in the picture good game good I've wanted

to do that for I mean I think that this is shows you that you can well will it be a successful outcome absolutely not but you know shoot your shot actually I just said no you can't but can you maybe you can it's very offensive it's never going to go down well but I feel like that this is not an uncommon thing for people who are on dating apps how often is it that you match with someone and then you find out that the person you match with isn't the one that you thought was hot in the pictures it was their friend and did you want to message them and say hey who's your friend yes so I've done it multiple times where I've seen someone and I know they're the main person and i'm like i don't want to match with you but god i want to know your friend and

you can't so then you go into their instagram and you stalk them to try and find who their friend is yes but it only works if they've linked their instagram like otherwise there's absolutely no way to do it so i don't know if what if that person could be the love of your life do you do your match like shane did do you match and shoot your shot with the friend it is very offensive because if you've matched that girl has said like i'm choosing you but you're choosing but you're choosing my friend and then as a friend do you cock blocker yeah block do you say fuck you no or do you link them up no you couldn't question now you cock block you don't like you know you don't you're not a dating app for your friend you're not there facilitating your friends dating

you're there for yourself and yourself only okay if this has ever happened to anyone please write in if you've ever met up keisha's in the corner saying all she does is facilitate brits dating oh please i facilitate her dating all right let's get into the chat with kelsey The film called The Volcano, Rescue from Fakari, is currently on Netflix and it documents the White Island disaster on the 9th of December in 2019. 47 people were on Fakari when it erupted. It killed 22 people and it injured 25 others,

with the majority suffering from severe burns. It was a beautiful day. You could feel the heat from the volcano. From the description, it was a nice, easy hike. They didn't make it sound dangerous. I knew what could happen out there. But you don't believe it will happen. Run!

I thought, this is it. We're going to die on our honeymoon. I heard the call, there's people on the island and she's erupting. The hate alone was just unbearable. The burns went through all my clothes. We were dealing with people who are going to die within the next hour or so. This is a staff nightmare, isn't it? At this stage, it is too dangerous for police and rescue services to go to the island.

The authorities said they're on their own. An eruption that lasted two minutes but has had consequences that will last forever. Joining us today is survivor Kelsey Waghorn. Kelsey, we are so grateful for you giving your time to us today. Hello. No, it's a pleasure to be here. What was it like for you watching back that documentary? It was a bit weird.

Yeah, every time I see or hear something about it, it's always just a bit weird. And it's like even the footage, like I still see the footage and there's a big part of me that always just goes, there's no way anyone walked off their island. And then it's like, I did. That's exactly what we thought when we watched it. It's just really weird. Like even the first time I saw any of the footage, it was like, no, there's no way that's what happened.

like how could anyone have walked off that and it's like you walked off that yeah I guess it's just one of those things that's just so big it's kind of a bit hard to wrap your head around can you tell us a little bit about what you were doing because you worked with the tour company that was bringing people onto the island can you talk us through what your role was and what it was like on the island that day it was just a normal tour so we would just do the tours of the inner crater and it was just normal up until the second that it wasn't how long had you been working as a tour guide for at this point uh five years and one day one day what an anniversary literally one day too long yeah wow did you just feel like every day was the same every tour you did

I guess after five years you get a level of comfort because you've done it so many times in safety was there a part of you that thought nothing's ever going to happen to me like I feel very comfortable and very safe doing this or was there always this tiny part in the back of your head that thought this is an active volcano something could happen one day yeah I guess a bit of both like I was under no illusions as to what that island could do like that was part of the tour we talked about what happens if there's an eruption sort of thing so I knew what it could do and I knew the likelihood of getting off if it did what it did that day was slim to none so yeah I mean I knew I knew what it could do but I just never believed that it would actually do it the

way that it did it I suppose which maybe is naive or stupid but yeah I mean I wouldn't have been there obviously if I thought that anything bad was going to happen. I mean one of the things from watching the documentary that was so hard to process was this idea that there's different stages of volcano like there's a dormant volcano a volcano that's active and then a volcano that's literally erupting it almost felt like as if you are like where are the where's the in-between stages as to what the volcano is doing or was there any indication that you know of that things maybe were more active or is it honestly I mean I guess with the volcano it's one of those things where it is so unpredictable and you're putting your your hands in the mercy of mother nature

yeah I mean for me it's like I know I could get in a car crash every time I could get in my car but it doesn't stop me getting in my car every day you kind of just go yep I accept that risk because the risk is low and so I mean for me that's exactly what it was it's like swimming in the ocean you know that there's where there's sharks or could drown or you get caught in a rip like there's so many things that could happen and for me it was just one of those things where it's like I understand the risks I upset the risk because I genuinely don't believe that I'm going to be the one that gets caught out by it but I mean I guess at some point someone has to be the one and unfortunately that was us that day. Can you talk me through that day for you a standard

day of taking people onto the island and showing them what is just the most beautiful thing to view and I think that that was one of the things that was so incredible watching it it is otherworldly being on this island what was that day like for you where were you in terms of taking your tour through the island so I've now separated from the guy I was seeing at the time and I'd actually posted a video of being on the farm that afternoon actually a lot of friends and family didn't think that I was on the island they thought I was out on the farm so they're like cool she's safe but yeah I mean I came in and it was normal day we loaded the boat up we headed out to the island And we did 80% of the tour and then we turned around and it was erupting.

So there was no sonic boom or what you kind of think there would be. So it just, yeah, was kicking off when we realized. So you were on the way back. You were almost back to the boat when this happened? Yeah, we'd been to the crater and we were making our way back to the wharf. And how long, like, what was it like when you just said it wasn't a typical bang? Like, you know, you sit here as a viewer or someone that has no experience and you think, okay when a volcano erupts it's like the tv it's very cliche it's like a movie it's

you know you hear there's a big eruption and then lava pours out and then there's smoke and what was it actually like and once it started happening when was the moment where you were like holy moly this is an actual eruption this is not just a bit of smoke a bit of ash like this is happening immediately i suppose would be the quick answer yeah because i actually had my back to it when everyone started realizing because i was just doing my talk as i always did and it wasn't until everyone sort of all at the same time realized what was going on and so we basically headed for cover straight away and I kind of in my head as we were like moving for cover I remember thinking at the time I was just like having this little chuckle in my head because it was like this is like our

drills and it was just like running along just like having a little laugh in my head because I don't know my brain just works in a weird way then when we saw the pyrocystic flow when I saw the pyrocystic flow it was like okay well that's us then because I know what the likelihood of surviving that is and so it was kind of just like oh well that's us like I don't what else can I do you can't fight mother nature when you're in the middle of it like that so it was just like shitty thing to try and have to accept in the moment. Kelsey when you say that it's almost unbelievable to think that you have this moment in life where you're like that's it I have to accept the fact that I'm not going to be here and and here you are not just I mean you're not just

here you're thriving and one of the things that I loved seeing on the documentary is just what an incredibly positive force you are off the back end of this but what's that moment like where you go fuck like I could die on this island is there the fight in you to to be like no this is not the place and this is not how or did you in that moment feel like you had to just be relinquished to what happened yeah it was definitely a kind of matter of just like well I know scientifically what the odds are of one of us getting off so it was like well yeah it was just one of those kind of white flag moments where you just kind of accept it didn't want to accept it obviously and it was kind of a bit weird but then obviously popped out the other side and it was like

okay now what we didn't have like lava flows or anything like that which I suppose on one sense is good what was coming out of the island was what burned us so it was rather than thermal burns it was more or less I guess all of the burns were chemical so it was kind of like acid and alkali burns which in one sense sounds worse but it actually meant like for me especially like I literally have my uniform burnt in me for life now so like it all it was just all the skin that was exposed got burnt for me because I didn't move I just basically fetal positioned and was just like well that's it yeah it was just exposed skin that got burnt so that was kind of a blessing in a weird kind of way because it meant that obviously it saved a lot of skin if it had been

thermal burns than we possibly would have been worse off. What do you remember about, if anything, the smells and the feels and the sight? So I guess for someone sitting at home now that hasn't watched it, that's listening, what was the order of how things happened? Because we do see complete blackness take hold. I can't imagine what you were smelling and hearing, how loud it was. I don't remember smell. That's probably the one thing I don't remember. But then again, You know, I'm so used to the island because I've been there. I must have done about 900 odd tours there. So it's not like it was a, it wasn't a new smell to me.

So I don't remember that. And then obviously like through the pyroclastic flow, couldn't see anything because it was just black. But I remember hearing everything. And I find now that audio is something that will set me off quite easily. So there's been a few things that have been like sounds that have set me off in the last kind of three years, I suppose. Sound is quite hard.

initially it felt like for me it was like standing on a beach on a really hot day and on a really windy hot day and so it was just like you could feel all the like sand and like small gravel and like everything like hitting you and bouncing off you and it was just really warm and I say really warm it was pretty hot that's the only way I can think of to describe it because otherwise I don't really know how to put that into words and then obviously the burns I'm not even gonna try but yeah it was I remember everything unfortunately or fortunately as well because it's like there's no question for me as to what happened so it's not like I woke up oh my dog's just bursting. That's okay we're pro dog here. Hello. Yeah so remember it all which is good in

a sense because it means that there's no question like I woke up from my coma and remembered it all and basically recited it all to my family immediately and they were like oh okay we wouldn't expect you to remember any of that but good on you. Not focusing on what happened on the island, but I think the really powerful part of this is actually how you were all rescued and how you managed to get off the island. What was that process for you like? Were you somebody who was taken onto the boat? Were you helicoptered out of there? Once everything had subsided and it was then a rescue mission, what were those moments like for you? Pretty full on. So we walked off the island and my group, I led off the island and we got to the wharf and my colleagues

basically came back and picked me up because the boat I came out on got hit so that was out of order for that moment so my colleagues came and picked us up and put us on phoenix which is the boat that had people on it already who just left the island so we came home on that it was the longest hour of my life yeah that two minutes felt like a really long time but that hour was just it felt like days and it was just like it didn't feel like we were getting any closer to the mainland we made it back to the shore and we were well my brain starts to sort of get a bit patchy here but yeah we got put into ambulances and taken to whakatane hospital where they did all our initial triage i suppose in care trying to get our pain under control and just trying to

like triage us to ship us off to the burns units around new zealand and so we all got shipped out within i think it was within 24 hours the last one was gone on the boat ride home because you just said it was the longest hour of your life but there's a moment in the documentary where when you land you say the ambulance is there and it was triage and it was chaos everyone was there but there was a moment where you saw your family members I think was your mum and your sister and you said I saw my family there and I didn't want them to see me like this so I can't even imagine when you're going through what you're going through in the feeling but you still had enough in you to worry about your family is this a way that your body started to cope with the

trauma and the pain I guess I'm just so interested in the psychology and what was happening in your mind at that time I think the adrenaline well and truly worn off by that point because yeah as we got to the wharf like I couldn't see the group behind me and I was adamant that I was going to go back and find my friend Hayden who was leading the other group so I was going to go back but the adrenaline wore off pretty quickly and there was no way that I could go back then at the wharf as we pulled in to all the help yeah I just remember seeing my mom and my sister and I was like looking at my hands and I'm like no they don't need to see this like this is pretty grim and so I said to one of the crew that was working on the boat I just said I need to get off this

boat and she's just like yep just give us a minute and I was like no no I'm out of here mate and I just like stood up and I couldn't straighten my legs I was kind of like quasi moto just like clambered off the boat like some sort of like yeah it was a bit of a mess I went to the front of the boat because they were sort of towards the back of the boat and I was just like I'm not going that way and so I actually ended up having to be lifted off the front of the boat by this crew member and her dad and try not to like scream as they like push me up and then it was just like hobbled over to an ambulance and she helped me get into an ambulance and yeah then things get a bit messy for me there because yeah we had a couple of paramedics come out and meet us on the boat and so

I think I had stuff shoved up my nose for the pain and so she obviously gave me so much that my brain sort of like got a bit fuzzy there. Do you know at this point I mean I know it's not something that you would have found out until later but what percentage burns to your body did you experience 45% full thickness burns to my body so it was pretty much from my shorts line to my boot line fingertips to t-shirt line my lower back ran onto my stomach got burnt because when I was crouched down my shirt must have rode up and so yeah exposed on my lower back and then I do kind of have a little bit of like burns on my neck and face and everything but yeah I've got like fairly lumpy legs now fairly lumpy limbs because there's like bits of muscle that had to be cut out

and stuff like that because it was acid it just kept burning until it was removed even though we came back on the boat and we were getting doused with water it wasn't constant water like you know when you get a chemical burn you're supposed to run like flush it for 20 minutes straight like we didn't get that because they didn't have the capacity to do that on the boat which I mean that's not their fault that's just the way it was so basically we got to hospital and I've heard I don't know if it was true or not but I've heard a lot of stories but one of them was that they debrided us so basically cleared off all the burnt material and then we'll go back the next day to check how we were doing and it was like it was still burning and so that it wasn't until

they realized what had actually burnt us that it wasn't thermal it was chemical that they actually were like oh okay we need to remove more so they went a bit deeper and yeah so missing a bit of muscle and all sorts of other tissue. Kelsey you said something just before and I wonder if because it was your job as being a tour guide did you feel a sense of responsibility like for the people that you were on tour with and I don't mean a responsibility as though you're responsible for what happened I meant a responsibility for trying to help and you know when you're in a situation where you need to be helped but you mentioned that you were thinking you wanted to go back and find your friend Hayden was this something that you think came as part of the

fact that you were a tour guide or was it simply that you had these beautiful connections and friendships with people who were also on the island that were experiencing the same thing you're experiencing I guess both and um for me obviously I didn't really understand that uh really what had happened I suppose until like a few months later because it was kind of like for me it was like well if we survived everyone survived so it took a long time before I actually realized that this wasn't the case and a lot of that was actually due to the fact I was on so much medication it was basically would have been like 50 first dates I would have had to have been told every single day because I just would have forgotten so the choice was made to basically

keep that from me until I was on lower doses of medication and could hold a thought so I didn't find out about the kind of severity of it all until I see about three weeks after did Hayden make it through no no so Hayden um yeah Hayden didn't make it off the island and he is one of the two that actually yeah never came home I'm so sorry Kelsey yeah it's so incredible that you're here to tell your story but then there is such a side of your story that is there was so much loss there are so many people on that island who didn't make it home and yeah you know even in watching the documentary there are people whose whole families who were on that island and you know you almost kind of think like well why did I survive and somebody else wasn't able to

how was your recovery once you got to a point where you came out of your coma where you understood the magnitude of what happened not just to you but to the people who were on the island who were your friends and to the people who are on the island as customers wanting to experience the world how was your recovery after that point it was pretty rough like it was pretty horrible to hear yeah what had actually happened and unfolded after we left because yeah I kind of just like I said assumed that because we'd survived everyone had because I mean that made sense to me it was like well we weren't supposed to anyway so if we have they have so yeah once I kind of found out it was a pretty hard pill to swallow and I was banned from watching the tv in my hospital room

because it was just all over the news like in New Zealand I think it was on the news for like pretty much three months straight it was just every single headline and because it was really early days especially only three weeks after there was still a lot of false information coming out as well about what had happened and yeah all sorts of stuff like there's things that I've read and it just yeah it just makes my blood boil but it was pretty rough to find that out and then be like well why am I still here that doesn't make any sense of all the people to make it off like Hayden trained me like so to me that was a very hard pill to swallow so even now like I have said I still say I still expect to get a text from him sometimes because I wasn't here for that whole

I mean I wasn't home for three months I was kind of removed from all of that so I wasn't here for his memorial I wasn't here when they were trying to find his body so for me that hasn't happened so there's kind of like this weird gap where like I know I know what's real I know that he didn't make it off but then there's like this weird gap where it's like but I didn't go to his funeral and I didn't hear all the stuff it's just as far as I'm concerned or hearsay so there's kind of a bit of distance there where it kind of just doesn't feel real I mean the whole thing is a bit in that category really because it's just so wild it's almost like beyond human comprehension you know and I think like so much we talk about

the physical side of it like we can talk about the physical side of your recovery or we can talk about the physical side of the impact and the trauma and the burns but there's the whole other side of this which is like the mental healing like how do you go through an experience like this and still remain positive on the other side of it? I mean, I've said quite a bit over the last, especially the last year, like I would much rather be burned again than have PTSD.

Like it's just horrific. Like I thought the physical stuff when I was in hospital was the worst that could ever get because it was pretty horrible because I had to relearn how to use my arms, my hands and relearn how to walk and even just like teach my body

how to stand up again or sit up again and like keep my blood pressure stable and stuff like that. so I didn't ever think that I would be saying that I would rather go through all that again than have PTSD but yeah like it's just the mental side is so much harder than the physical side the physical side is a walk in the park compared to the mental side and there's such a like stigma around all the mental side of it as well where it's just like people can't see it and they don't understand it and admittedly I didn't understand it up until recently either because it took a

long time to find the help that I actually needed and the help that actually worked for me so it took me two and a half years to actually find that help. What did that help look like? So I had to change psychologist to someone who was actually far more better equipped to deal with PTSD. So yeah, I had to change that in the middle of last year because I just needed that extra help. I've tried hypnotherapy. I've tried EMDR. God, you name it. I've probably tried it. I ended up getting in touch with a, she's like a trauma focused wellbeing coach, which sounded very airy fairy, but last year was really rough for me. And it was like, I'll bloody try anything at this point like give me a lobotomy I'll do it you're like I'll be an

experiment take it out yeah it was like desperate times desperate measures so she's probably been the biggest turning point for me and yeah getting my shit together and trying to deal with everything how did the PTSD present itself for you like what were you managing with oh I was blessed with all the symptoms so if you google it it's like you name it I had a hyper vigilance like I was just always on edge I was always prepared for something to go wrong anger I really struggled with my anger especially last year it just really ramped up a notch for the first six months yeah so it was pretty grim and then just like I just cry at the drop of a hat over something really not worthy crying of when you say hypervigilance that you were always thinking something was going to go

wrong do you mean literally day to day like you didn't want to get in a car because you thought there'd be a crash or you didn't want to fly somewhere because you thought the plane would like what is a hypervigilance on a day-to-day look like for me it was like I would always sit where I could see the door so it was like I'd have to know my way out and it was like people walking towards me it's like are they going to attack me I couldn't walk with anyone behind me it was just fear just so much fear and just terrified of everything and like it's so hard to just live a normal life like that like you don't have a normal life with that it's so hard and like even though people like know what you've been through no one actually knows really what

I've been through and like even with my family and friends I haven't described everything to them because it's like it traumatizes like I don't want to traumatize you and I'm like I know how much as traumatized me and like it's only been in the last seven months that I've actually understood what's actually been going on in my brain and why it's happening the way that it's happening the new psych that I have and this well-being coach that I have both of them we're right back to basics this is what happens with PTSD this is why everything coming up so your fear your hypervigilance your anger that's all just the symptom it's not the cause it's not what's the problem so it's going back and stripping back the layers to actually figure out what's setting that

off in that situation and it's like okay there's your work and it's just like oh my god that makes so much sense and even that it's like it just feels like you're not stabbing around in the dark just trying to like get anything so even just that understanding and that knowledge is just massive it's such a big big feeling to actually know what's going on in your own brain then you've got the whole recovery on top of it like burns recovery is just horrible so I actually have people like reach out to me over like Instagram and stuff being like oh look I had burns 5, 10, 20 years ago just know that everything you're going through is normal and like you're going to have all these feelings and like these weird things going to happen and weird feelings in your

body which was massive that was huge like for my physical recovery that was massive but then the mental recovery it's like no one talks about PTSD no one has the same PTSD like no one's brain is triggered in the same way and so it's just like all of a sudden your family doesn't know what's going on yeah my now ex didn't know what was going on I've lost friends I've lost my partner and I've just like lost all the stuff because of it because it just got too big too heavy and I tried all these things and none of them were working people just can't handle it and it's like fair enough because I want to walk away I want to check out because I'm done with this and it's like but I can't walk away from it I'm just sick of healing and trying to recover and just like

trying to explain this to people and just having no one get it and no one understands no one can help and it's just like this just sucks unfortunately I took yeah a breakup with the partner last year that basically just go okay you have to find something there's got to be something and yeah thankfully changed my psych found this well-being coach and thankfully it's working for me in terms of where you're at now I mean seven months of rehabilitation that seems to be rehabilitation that's working for you and this also goes to show like that if you are in the health care system if you are receiving care and it's not working like changing is so important and getting second opinions and you know advocating for your own not just your physical health but

your mental health is so important because nobody else knows and understands you as well as you know and understand yourself I hate to make you talk about when you're at your darkest days but do you think you're now at a point where you can see the light yeah I do I've made some really good friends like we just became best mates like pretty much overnight it was just the weirdest thing but most brilliant thing they get it they totally get it and they don't judge me for it and they just accept me totally as is they don't make me feel bad when I have a blow up or something's going on and they're just like look it's fine like of course this is happening and they're just like so understanding and like that's massive for them I know it's a lot of work like shit it's a lot of

work for me but I kind of know what's going on now so their understanding and that patience is just massive and those friends and I'm so grateful for them and the help that I'm getting is just so good and it's finally just making me feel like I'm not insane yeah no I'm probably in the best place mentally that I've possibly ever been it's so nice to feel which is so nice to hear when you say that do you mean pre the accident as well yeah I mean it's been a hell of a long road to get here and it's been a hell of a lot of work like blood sweat and tears literally but yeah like i just feel calmer i just feel clearer basically all the good shit kelsey what's your relationship like i mean obviously experiencing physical burns that changes your body you spoke

about the operations you spoke about having pieces of your calves removed and the physical burns that you have how does that change your relationship with your body it took a couple of months for me to I guess totally accept what my new normal was but then again that normal in hospital is totally different now because when I first saw my arms and my hands which is the part I saw first after grafting it looked like they put like the walking dead's arms on to me and it was just like what are those what have you done to my arms they were black and they were just like so swollen and my nails were all like not good it was just so so gross like it was just like so foreign and like they were hypersensitive as well and I had to have all this like moisturizer pumped onto me

many times a day I remember one day in particular my family was doing my arms and my legs at the same time because my nerves had all been obviously fried it was just information overload and I just panicked I was like get off me stop touching me just like one at a time don't touch me and so it was a lot to sort of take in that way when I finally actually looked at my arms finally started accepting those because I was like well they're stuck to my body so I'm kind of stuck with them and I better get used to them so I was like I just like wait until my family had left the room and they just stare at them and like wiggle my fingers a little bit and be like oh my god they're mine and then when I saw my legs I just burst into tears because I don't I can't

remember my legs being sore or feeling them burning or anything I just I don't remember my legs I just remember my arms and my hands and then I saw my legs and it was just like black and purple salami and I was just like oh not again and so I had to like learn to live with that and then once I started walking again every time I'd stand up because my body was used to being horizontal because I've been horizontal for six weeks by this point I'd stand up and my blood would all just pull and my feet and my hands and so it took a few months for that to sort of stop happening and then even then I remember faces from the island as well and I remember thinking oh my god like my face must look like that as well so for months I wouldn't look at my face and I hadn't

seen my reflection probably before it must have been the second to last week of January in 2020 I had just started learning how to walk and I was having my little lunch break where it was like two hours where I could just have a sleep and I was like I need to see my face and I want to do it alone and so I was really bad I got out of bed and I was still like needing assistance but I'm out of here I need to see my face and I want to do it alone I just wanted to do this on my own and everyone was like I'll bring a mirror and I said don't you bloody dare and because people would come in and be like your face looks really good your face looks really really good like and it was like what is wrong with my face like everyone kept mentioning my face and it was just

like what's happened to it and so I yeah basically slithered out of bed and t-rex walked over to the bathroom and managed to open the door and I walked into the bathroom and I looked at my face and it was like oh and then I just went back to bed yeah it was just like oh okay that's disappointing I suppose well not disappointing I was like quite please but it was just like I was so underwhelming for what I've been building up in my head yeah it was just like oh I still look like me that's okay once I sort of started getting back on Instagram so many people messaged me and they'd be like why is your face not burnt why is your face not burnt and it was like sorry people wrote that oh I've had some weird shit sent to me it was so weird what the fuck sometimes I hate social media like

who in their right mind would think that that is okay to message somebody at any stage of life but someone is going through what you've just gone through yeah it's it's so weird like thankfully I've just seen the funny side in it like that's been just one of many really weird messages that I've screenshotted and sent to my friends and I'm like look another one and they're like what at least you can laugh about it though but it's lucky that you can yeah no I'm I'm lucky that I'm in a place where I just find all those messages yeah quite funny and like even since like the documentary came out obviously there's been a bit of an influx on the old Instagram and some of those messages like some of them are just like lost in translation it's like I know what you're trying

to say but that's not what it's come across as and then some of them you're just like what is going through your head like someone said of all the people you're my favorite survivor and it was like thank you this is not a reality tv show but also I think this is the issue on one side of the coin with documentaries it's amazing that we're able to see and understand what happened and understand the magnitude and I think that that gives some people even maybe people in your own life clarity around something that you experienced but it also I say this because you know we have spoken to many people who have been parts of documentaries but it almost characterizes what happened as well it's like you are one of many people who are telling their version of the story

and people watch it and they sometimes forget that you're a real person that you're not that person who is just on the documentary and that even speaking to today you know that Kelsey on the documentary is and know that that is a part of who you are this like very recovered in a lot of ways very positive has this bright outlook on what has happened whereas like you know having a more in-depth conversation with you there is way more color as to how this has deeply changed you as a person and how this will forever be part of your story one question that I have for you I don't want this to be taken the wrong way because I don't think that you can ever be grateful for a situation like that happening but do you feel as a survivor do you feel grateful yeah I mean like

there's a lot of stuff that I have in my life now people that I wouldn't trade for the world in my life now that have only come about and I've only met because of what happened so in that sense yeah I'm grateful that my wildlife has brought me the people that I have in my life now because I can't imagine life without them and unfortunately I don't know if I ever would have met them if this hadn't happened I'm definitely grateful to be alive for anyone going through anything Kelsey that like what you've been through is just horrific but you've come out the other side for anyone going through any sort of uh really hard time in their life dark time trauma what do you want to say to them as someone that has been you know the lowest of lows and you are where you are

now which is just like a bright shining light unfortunately all the things I can think of are like horrible cliches yeah I love a horrible cliche unfortunately that's true like that's why they're cliches so like I mean I heard one the other day and it was like if you're going through hell why would you stop there like you got to get out of it so keep going so it's like yeah that makes sense but yeah you just you just can't give up like you just have to keep hunting for the thing that works for you like it took me took me two and a half years to find the thing that worked for me unfortunately and even then like I had the thing that was helping me and it was the early stages and it still didn't feel like it was enough and I still wanted to give up then

but I mean you just have to lean on your people and have a good trust circle I suppose and I mean that's all you can do is just don't give up just keep trying as shit as it is. Kelsey thank you so much for giving us your time for telling us your story for sharing so openly we are so grateful for you coming and being part of the podcast oh you're so welcome thank you all right guys you know that we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet our highlight and our low light of each and every week britney what is your sucky duck duck my sucky ducky duck is of delilah delilah cut her paws open yeah yeah poor thing and she hasn't walked she hasn't been able to walk for a couple of days must have been on a rock or an oyster or something and it's i've checked it out

She went to the vet. She's fine, but she can't walk anywhere. She's like Buster with three legs. She's just like, she's like Buster. Just hold the paw up. Yeah. I mean, Buster's been like this for eight and a half years. So he's pretty well versed.

I feel like for dogs who have four legs, it's a bit of a bother. It is. It's fine. It's healed fine. But that's just like my suck. It's like a kid. You don't want to see your dog or your animal or your child in any sort of pain. So like when I knew her little paw was sore or something, yeah.

I thought you were going to say that like she had cut it and then there was just like a carnage through the house, but just in general, I'm, oh, that sucks. yeah my sweet for the week would have to be that I have a new nephew so little bear Anthony Hockley entered the world and he came out being like and he's absolutely adorable and I can't wait to meet him and it's nice to add to the family what about you it's nice to add to the family I ain't doing no adding okay well I'm when we're not recording this want to see photos because now that I have my own children I'm sick for other people's children and that's just kind of what happens um okay so my suck for the week is that i have this is gonna sound so dumb because i'm a big

loser that gets allergies but i have the most raging msg allergy at the moment if anybody is allergic to msg you will know what this is like it is fucked i have like proper i get like i can't read i can't see i can't think my body hurts it's just like the weirdest side effect to msg and it's not like a normal oh i get rashes i get like this full body fog that happens next time i'm hung over i can't record i had thai last night it kind of feels like that kind of feels like a big dirty hangover except everything inside your body feels like it's foreign to you like my body inside feels itchy i don't even know how to describe it but i don't get it as bad as i used to i used to get full anaphylaxis uh so if i keel over in the record you will know that my epi pen is in my bag

because you're attracted to people who look like me and my sweet for the week is just that we went to Hamilton Island it was phenomenal we had such a beautiful time like as a parent of a three-year-old and a now two-year-old I love that we get to do these really awesome things with the girls and I think for a while there we we kind of like tossed it up we were like well will the kids be old enough to remember it or to enjoy it or to even have fun on these experiences we took Marley snorkeling for the very first time and she was like she wasn't petrified but she didn't want to put the goggle and the mask on it took her like a lot of encouraging because it was the very first time obviously they can't breathe through their nose they've got to breathe through their mouth

it was a big process of trying to like build up her confidence to snorkel but she put the mask on and I put my mask on at the same time and I was like just put your face in the water just stick it in the water for two seconds and get used to it and finally she got the courage up and she did it and she stuck her face in the water and just as she did it a turtle swam past so that was the one and only time she put her face in the water and she saw a huge it was like incredible no one else on the boat saw a turtle except for marley because she was like sitting on the little jetty part and then she saw a turtle so like we had a beautiful time it was an amazing couple of days now i'm back at work well now i want to go to hamilton island maybe we need to do a work trip for sure very

important yeah work trips in hamilton island yeah by the pool having pina coladas and that is it from us guys we hope that you enjoyed the episode we know that the chat with kelsey was a really big and i mean it was a heavy one but like we said we watched the documentary and just thought it was so incredibly phenomenally done incredible story that we really wanted to share it with you and we hope that you guys enjoyed the chat enjoyed the episode if you did jump on subscribe to life uncut podcast in your podcast app and we'll be dropping again on thursday don't forget tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your friends and share the love because we love love We'll be right back.