Life Uncut - Taken in plain sight - A story of human trafficking with Dr Katariina Rosenblatt

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

Hey Lifers!Guess who's back? Back again! It's our resident fill in Matty J!Sadly, our girl Britt has been struck down by covid and the flu so Matt's gotten the call up to the microphone! He's hot off the plane from the Logies and ready to spill some red carpet goss!Then we are diving into a much deeper conversation. In today's episode we are talking with Dr Katariina Rosenblatt. Kat was a victim of sex trafficking from the time she was just 13 years old, until the age of 17. Kat grew up in Miami, Florida and experienced trafficking on several, separate occasions. In this episode, Kat talks us through her harrowing story that really pulls back the curtain on what child sex trafficking actually looks like in our world. It was extremely eye opening for us to learn about how different it is to what we imagined sex trafficking was. Kat speaks about what makes certain children vulnerable as 'prey.'She educates us on what the people who organise trafficking are like and how they operate. She is a very resilient and strong woman. Her story is shocking and compelling.Dr Kat is now using her trauma to educate others on the horrific issue of Child sex trafficking and is workig alongside the FBI to literally save childrens lives.This episode may be very triggering for anyone who has experienced or had a loved one experience any form of sexual assault. If this raises any issues for you, please give this episode a miss, listen to it with someone you feel safe around or leave it for another time. Help can always be found at 1800-RESPECT. Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because we love love!! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders, past and present, and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples today. This episode is recorded on Gadigal land of the Aurora Nation. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura and I'm joined not by Brittany Hockley today. Unfortunately, she has been struck down by COVID and so we had to find a substitute,

somebody to fill in and the only person there ready and waiting in the wings is Matthew Johnson. It's me. I've been trying to give Brittany COVID for so long to get back on this podcast, and finally, after sending her endless packages of contaminated air, I've got her. Well, she's been struck down. Not only has she been struck down by COVID, she's also got influenza. The girl is so sick, like so sick.

Also has herpes, which is not ideal as well. The trifecta knocked her right down. Wishing her a speedy recovery. Britt, if you're listening, I hope you're well. Anyway, let's get into the episode. Okay, first things first. Matt, you have been away this entire weekend at the Logies. We will talk about that shortly.

However, I did want to let you guys know that Matt is only joining us. I have to call you Matt. I know you wanted me to call you Matty J, but it's so weird. Just say Matty J. I won't. Do it. Oh, no. Just do it once.

Do people call you Matty J, really? All the time. Who? Everyone. Who's everyone? Nobody who actually knows you or is related to you calls you Matty J. Everyone calls me Matty J, except when, if I'm in a business meeting and I need to sound professional and not like I'm 12 years old,

I'll sometimes say Matt. In the middle of sex, I often call out, Matty J. And that's how I climax. If ever I'm struggling, say it, say it, Laura. Matty J. Okay. I have to ask though, I came back home and the first thing I saw at the front of our house was a plant, like a plant that's been ripped out of the ground maybe, just sitting there.

Is it one of our plants? Why is it just a random plant? And this is like a 50 centimeter plant. Look, I walked past one of our neighbors who was throwing out a plant that they obviously ripped up out of their garden. And I brought it home with me, pushing two kids, walking a dog and carrying a ripped out succulent. And you have a go at me for being a hoarder. Okay, and it's sitting right there next to the shoe rack that you picked up off the side of the road a couple of weeks ago. How long has it been there for and why didn't you plant it?

It's only been there since yesterday and the reason why I didn't plant it is because I, unlike you, spent the weekend taking care of our children whilst you ran around at the Logies. But before we get into talking, and that's why we have you on today, not just because Brit's sick, there is something that you're going to share with us. It's the ins and the outs of the Logies. But before we get into all of that, firstly, we just want to thank today's sponsor who made this episode possible, and that is Smith's Oven Baked Chips, which are 50% less fat and

100% delicious. Be honest, how many Smith's Chips have you eaten since I've been gone? Well, all the small packets that were in the cupboard, but speaking of guilty pleasures, do you know what something I did do while you were gone? Okay, did you buy more plants? No, just the one plant. if you if you have watched anything that we watch together as like agreed matt and laura time i will be really disappointed what one would you say is our agreed matt and laura time i will potentially

move out of this house if you have watched any of the sinner without me i and i'm not i'm not even kidding i'm not even kidding you have a smile on your face right now i'm putting this on record if you have watched the sinner and if you finished it i will pack my bags right now and i'm leaving so matt and i only had two episodes left of the sinner to go season four uh look wasn't as good as season one let me tell you that but i may have watched the final two episodes without you here you didn't and it's a very good thing that your suitcase is still packed will you move it's fine yeah my back i haven't even unpacked my bag yet i'm come back there is okay can i just say there is so much to watch out there so much you have

endless amount of options and yet you've gone for the one thing that we watch together i feel like this is something that most couples would argue about like you shouldn't finish an episode series without your partner being there but if your partner is willingly away and you are stuck with the children i think that there are no rules anymore i feel like i don't even know you anymore yes i sat holding our daughter's hand whilst she was constipated on the toilet because she was so scared to do a poo why because it was stuck mummy mummy it's stuck that's what i did and that's why i needed to watch two episodes of the sinner you you know i'm not good with poo so even if i was here that would be your job holding her hand staring into her little eyes while she said

it's stuck mummy and then wait when she finally did do a poo this is too much for everyone but you know what we're parents and it's all we talk about when she finally did do it she said mommy it came out and said hello and that was my weekend was that the day of her birthday yeah that was well actually okay we haven't we kind of lied to Marley and there's more things that are happening this weekend but Matt went away and it was Marley's birthday on Sunday and we kind of had to lie to her and tell her it wasn't her birthday so that she wasn't celebrating it without him there then why did you get her presents how did you explain that one to her I got her presents but didn't make a big fuss about it being her birthday.

She just thinks it was an awesome Sunday and I'm now the favourite parent. Okay, great. So we're going to do birthdays next weekend. And then I spent the rest of the time that you weren't here following our electronic vacuum cleaner around the house because I'm obsessed and it's now my favourite child.

I was thinking to myself as I was working very hard at the Logies, I was like, oh gosh, I wonder how Laura's doing. And then I get onto Instagram and there's just about 15 stories. Some of the vacuum cleaner going around with you following it and then other videos of just you with wine in hand

being like i did it i did it i'm an independent woman i'm a bit tipsy and then back to the vacuum cleaner then back to laura and i was like well it looks like she's doing fine okay so for anybody who didn't see this i about a month ago i bought one of those really ridiculously overpriced robot vacuum cleaners online sitting there for so long for like six weeks i've been sitting in a box for six weeks neither of us have gotten around to setting it up but while matt was away i set it up Now, what I think is the most unproductive thing about owning a robot vacuum cleaner is that if you own one, you are guaranteed to just follow it around the house in all. So I spent every evening following a vacuum cleaner around being like, oh, my God, look at what it's doing, which means that I pretty much could have cleaned my own floors in the same amount of time. I bet you any money that you watch The Sinner with the robo vacuum cleaner on the couch next to you.

I've been replaced by a vacuum cleaner. And that is the only thing that I need that is wet socks in my life. That was weird. Sorry, Timo. Well, I'm glad that you managed to cope without me. I did. But let's get into what you did while you were away. Matthew Johnson made it to the Logies.

A lot of people asked about you. Did they? A lot of people said, where is Laura? And you said, at home where she belongs. I said, she's with the vacuum cleaner watching Cine. That is where she is. You were definitely missed. Well, I thought, because you get a bit of an insight into what it is like, and it is

a weird world being at the Logies, I think, and of course you can see what plays out on TV, but I wanted to know and have some of the questions answered that people have written in. Are you ready for this? Yes. Okay. How was your experience for starters? It was good.

It is a bit weird. I was there on the Gold Coast at the Star, where that's kind of where the majority of the celebrities staying there. I was there from Friday. they people don't really arrive until the saturday so friday was pretty chilled but then it starts to ramp up you start to spot more and more celebs around the place and the best celebs spotting is obviously breakfast at the buffet and in particular sunday the morning of the event i went down pretty early at seven o'clock and i thought won't be too busy jam-packed with just

celebrities the who's who and it's so weird because you feel like you know these people because you see them on TV all the time. And what was Dom's husband on Maths? What was his name? Jack. Okay, so I'm waiting for my toast to cook. And there's Jack from Maths. And there's Jack, and he's standing next to me.

So as I'm waiting for the really slow toaster, that conveyor belt that takes forever, so I'm waiting and waiting and waiting. I thought, I'll get a juice and I'll come back for the toast. Issue was, there was two slices of toast. And I turned to Jack and I said, oh, is that mine? And then I was like, I know it. I'll say hi. And I said, how are you, dude?

Like, you know, how are things? And he didn't have any idea who I was at all. And I went for a pat on the back. I was like, hey, Jack. Why did you go to pat him on the back? You don't know him. It was a friendly pat. It was like, this is a safe space.

It's just been a pandemic. You don't touch people. I know you. And I said, is that your toast? And he said, I don't know. And I said, okay. And I kept patting him. Then I grabbed the toast and then I walked off.

And I was like, this is so awkward. when you walk past someone and just give them like a closed mouth smile and a nod so wait i'm good i need to go back to the toast and jack thing for one second so he didn't say anything to you like he had no idea who you were i don't know so fucking i don't think he knew who i was at all i think he just thought that i was just because it's a really weird amalgamation of the celebs that are there for the loggies but also just people who want to gamble and people who are staying there on holiday and it's it's like it's so strange in the restaurant during breakfast and considering that you rarely get any sleep because of the kids you just look like you've been up playing the

pokies all night i was walking around in my crocs just like and i was like hey hey carl oh hey jack all right so you hosted the red carpet for the star uh so you got to speak to the who's who of people when you arrive like when do people start arriving at the red carpet and like i guess like for the loggies it's kind of separated into two parts there's the red carpet arrivals yes and then there's the actual Logies event where the awards and stuff are given out I feel like most people don't really care about the awards part everyone's just there to get their photo on the red carpet that seems to be like the highest energy part of the night once you're inside it's like oh okay my hard work has been done so how does it work in terms of when people arrive and

the order in which people arrive I don't know who does the complete order but it's very strategic obviously they try and spread out like the big gold logo nominees don't all come at once but they have them spread out throughout there's a two-hour window so we all arrive myself and the rest of media arrive at the red carpet at three o'clock the very first guest celebrity guest arrives at four o'clock so in that one hour window everyone's kind of like getting settled into their little bit of turf on the red carpet everyone's like doing final checks with media and then we were there we were just waiting it's like the calm before the storm before the very first celeb arrives and then we can see in the distance someone is coming and everyone's like

who is it who is it i don't know everyone's trying to find out who it is april from neighbors was the very first celeb and everyone was salivating her dress was amazing dress was amazing everybody wants that very first interview surely that would be a bittersweet for them because there's no more neighbors right so this might be her last loggies yeah yeah it was really i i felt it was really sad she showed up and she owned the red carpet like it was her job she had a dress that went for 25 meters this big pink fluffy thing i think she was easily the best dressed of the night i didn't get an interview with her though why i panicked i panicked that was when i was still being really polite you didn't want to come in too strong to start off

but i was also really nervous i feel like amongst the tiktok and instagram crowd i'm a lot more comfortable but amongst like tv people like people who i grew up watching i'm a little bit more shy well i also think like the tiktok and instagram crowd it's also other people who just spend time at home alone making content so like everybody's an introvert in some sort of weird way or an extrovert but it's like you spend time at home making tiktok dance videos whereas like then you have to go and interview people like carl stefanovic and you're like oh god you're so much better at this than i am be my friend i did i did get really starstruck by carl when they arrive you said that there's order to it so they yes is there anything like the less famous people come first and then

the more famous people come last like is there order to it in that sense or is there kind of Like they staggered the famous people. It's peaks and troughs. So then you'll have someone amazing like, you know, like Osher and Abbey Chatfield and then Scary Spice. Mel B, is it Mel B? Was she scary? I didn't even recognise her.

I was like, who is with Osh? And then someone goes, that's one of the Spice Girls. And I was like, oh, no way. What an unbelievable moment though. Imagine being Abbey Chatfield and just living out your childhood dreams of walking down the Logies red carpet with a Spice Girl. and i think another reason why it's so crazy is that there's a big generation gap there's all the older celebs like those who are kind of in their late 40s and older and then there's a huge

gap of younger people who haven't managed to be on tv abby was like representing the younger generation of this country do you think in that case then that there's a bit of a them versus us mentality when it comes to like the more seasoned tv personalities versus reality tv people like oh god what are they doing here those peasant reality totally totally but then i didn't get a chance to talk to jack on the red carpet you're like walk up to jack and you're like hey buddy and he's like fuck the guy from the toaster keeps following me is this yours with a slice of toast um uh because i was hosting with a woman called pia she spoke to them and then i looked over and i was like who is that like lying on the red carpet and it was al from maths doing the worm

Al from Mavs was doing the worm. I mean, this doesn't surprise me. Did he make anyone do a shooie? He did a shooie later on. I don't think he did a shooie on the red carpet, but yeah, he was just like worming across the red carpet. You have all these amazing celebrities in elegant gowns, you know, strolling on into the red carpet

and then Al comes in just doing the worm. See, I reckon though, surely some of the people who are more seasoned celebrities would look at that and then think that that's a disrespectful way to behave at something that they take seriously. Or are they there having fun at the same time? I think it's a bit of a spectacle.

I think when it's someone like Al who's just like the one person, I think if the entire cast of maths all were like doing a worm as they enter the red carpet, I think maybe it would be more frowned upon. But I think because it's Al, everyone's like, oh, you, you're so silly. Okay. Are there rules around what can and can't be worn? I don't know. I was going to wear –

You're the perfect person to ask that. Very helpful. No, I was going to wear board shorts and you said that I couldn't Because it's the Gold Coast. The weather was great. It was 22 degrees. I wanted to wear a tux up top and board shorts down below. And you were like, you cannot do that.

It's embarrassing. Business at the top, party down the bottom. I was like, at least go there and be taken semi-seriously. You can't go and wear board shorts to the low years. And I'm very glad that I said that. Was anybody else there wearing board shorts? It's the Gold Coast. I reckon the most outlandish outfit was Waleed from the project

wearing a red suit. Really? Yeah. Do you think that that was the most outlandish? I think so. No one really pushed the boundaries with their outfits. Do you know, it's interesting because I felt like the Logies fashion has changed a lot in that there used to be so many rules around it.

Like the rules used to be, I remember when we went a couple of years back, the one and only time that I got an invitation, I wore a midriff and that apparently is super taboo. Like you're not supposed to wear a midriff to the Logies. You're also not supposed to wear black to the Logies, but Lisa Wilkinson wore a black dress this year. And I feel like fashion has changed quite a bit. What constitutes sort of like very formal ball gown or like what constitutes black tie

for a black tie event is sort of evolving. I'll be really honest. I didn't really pay any attention to what people were wearing. Okay. Is it hard to get an invite to the Logies? I think so. I didn't even get an invite inside the Logies. So yes, it's very hard.

I did my best. I failed. So I didn't actually get to go inside. Just to the door. Okay, and I say this and I don't want people to think that I'm saying this out of spite because I didn't get invited, but I wouldn't have wanted to go inside to the actual awards. Mate, every single person who says that,

every single ex-reality TV star who is on their Instagram going, I wouldn't have gone to Logies even if I got an invitation. I wouldn't have. Is lying. That reeks of someone who is butthurt that they didn't get an invitation inside the Logies. You know, it's very – okay, the issue is if you're not nominated, it's a little bit boring.

And it's a very long night. It's really long. And if you want to do a wee, you can only go at specific times because it's all live and so you can only wee in certain ad breaks. I have to wee a lot. You know, I have a very small bladder. And also, I guess, in between segments, they have lockouts. So what Matt's saying is like if you – I kind of like going to the theatre.

If you go out – Like intermission. Yeah, if you go out outside of like the time slots and the doors close, then you're locked out until the next time slot when the doors open and the doors only open during on-air ad breaks that's it so okay apart from that okay one thing that we all saw if you were watching abby chatfield stories over the logies she wasn't able to get a photo on the red carpet which seems crazy and ludicrous because there's just a million people there taking photos but i guess there isn't really a space for you to get a photo of yourself you know when you know when

you're like at a wedding and there's a certain period of time where the sun is setting and you know that you haven't gotten a photo yet and you know that you have like 15 minutes before it's completely dark and you know your opportunity to have any photo was completely removed and you're panicking going should i take it over here no that's awful over here the background looks crap that was abby on the red carpet she was like all right let's try over here and she was like no the lighting's crap over here then she like paced down to the other end of the red carpet was like no this is crap as well and so i was watching abby panically like try and get a photo unsuccessfully i think she got one in the end well no i was watching her stories and she ended up getting

photos back from the media company so like mama mia sent her photos because everyone's taking photos of you you just can't get a photo of yourself but the thing is is that most people organize to have a photographer come to their hotel most people have already gotten that dialed they have like an hour of photos before they even arrive at the red carpet because it is so crazy and hectic and you're too busy doing media interviews that you can't really be running around trying to get social media content it's like a wedding it's like a wedding when did you organize a photo shoot for yourself when you went to somebody else's wedding every wedding i go to i always bring a photographer you know that laura i think that that is like the perfect example for

everybody has been to a wedding where there's that weird period where people are stressed about getting a photo of themselves i think the perfect example of this is if anybody is following rebecca Harding who is Andy Lee's girlfriend Andy from Hamish and Andy beautiful so ridiculously smoking hot she is divinely beautiful she wore an amazing black dress but I noticed because like normally most people have a photo at the hotel that they're staying at and then I saw her pre-Logies photo and I was like holy shit she has stepped up the game can I can you just like pull it up show me the photo she'd organized a studio she had gone in studio with a backdrop and had a full professional photo shoot was it like was it like a nature landscape like a waterfall it wasn't a green

screen she's just like what kind of backdrop are we talking about like a beautiful beige backdrop like it's the most amazingly planned photo oh my goodness that is lovely it is lovely that is lovely i had a terrible interview with andy lee what happened you know when you have a list of questions that you want to ask and you should be listening to what they answer but you just can disregard it and you just go with your next question and he made this joke about the fact that he was going around telling people that he was maddie j but being really rude to people and like tried to tell this joke and i was like great what are you excited for tonight what happened did you just get super nervous yeah it was like my second interview so he was he was

talking and i was like in my head i was like okay next question ask about the logis if he's excited me pressure who he thinks will win and then he finished his joke and i just went straight in with my next question and I was watching the footage back and you can see in his eyes him going like this guy is not listening to anything I'm saying I'm learning I'm learning it's a learning experience I mean coming from someone who has uh hosted their own two different podcasts and also been a guest on our podcast multiple times it's good to see that you have really put those skills into practice sometimes it's hard to listen to people I know that that is a constant part of our relationship and something that you struggle with I've noticed anyway okay next I

I won't make that same mistake. Okay, well, since you didn't actually make it to the inside of the Logies and we can't ask you for any of that, Goss. Because I didn't want to. Because you didn't want to go. What was the after party? But if they're listening, obviously next year I'd like to maybe attend. Matt just wants the invite so he can say no to it.

You're like somebody who's in a relationship where they don't even like the guy but they want the guy to like them so that they can be the one to reject the guy. Exactly right. That's exactly what's going on here. Okay, what about after parties? Because there's so many different after parties that are going on. Do you have to get invited to a specific after party or can you just crash any after-party and how do they work?

So Channel 9, I would say, had the most extravagant after-party. Oh, so each station does the after-party. So like Channel 10 has an after-party. Yes. Because, okay, guys, you might not know this, but like all the networks kind of hate each other and they don't like their talent to mingle with other talent. It is a little bit weird because obviously it's on Channel 9.

Channel 9, I think, have the most money. They're definitely, of all the other networks, like the top of the food chain. Doing well. so they get to have top spot the darling is like the kind of like where the penthouses are it's where the high rollers all hang out at the star they had the very top level all to themselves channel 10 i think we're at the soffitel okay slowly going down the list and then i can't i don't know where everyone else was sbs we're down down the car park uh in the basement of the star

but i did get an invite to channel 10 i politely declined because because laura they just they start really late like the awards finish at 11 30 so the after party doesn't kick off until midnight you know I finished work at six that's when the red carpet ends and so I went back to the room I had room service got a burger I took my bow tie off took my pants off and then I'm like I'm done and then once your pants came off the party was done then I was done came over put my comfies on and I was like I am not getting back up but the after parties I think back in the day they would have been really crazy i think like back in the 90s i imagine it would be wild but now all that there's so much media still at the after parties and the networks have camera crews there so no

one gets too wild except for car stefanovic you know that you've really hit peak dad mode when you get to 12 o'clock and that's when the after party starts and you think to yourself it's too late i had an early flight laura no i know and and i knew i knew that coming back to sydney obviously i've got a lot of work to do because you've been doing the fair share so i was like I don't want to rock up hungover and tired because I'm going to help with the kids. You are such a good man. I did this for you. Do you know what you don't have to do now ever again?

What's that? Vacuum or mop our floors. Ah, what a time to be alive. Not that you've ever done it in the entire time that we've been together, but it is one thing that you're never going to have to do. And I'm just going to say this one more time. This episode is absolutely not sponsored by robot vacuum cleaners, but I'm never, I am never, ever, ever going to have to vacuum or mop a floor ever again.

I'm annoyed it's not on right now. I'm the same. So am I. Maybe we should fix that. Okay. Well, we have quite a serious episode to get into today. Now, Matt is not joining us for the main part of this episode because Britt and I, we did pre-record this a couple of days before she got sick.

So we are interviewing an incredible woman. Her name is Dr. Katarina Rosenblatt. She's from the United States and she talks so much around child trafficking. The reason why it's a topic that she's incredibly passionate about is because when she was a child, she was sex trafficked on three different occasions. It is a harrowing story, but it's also a story about incredible resilience and of a woman who overcame so many traumas in her life and now is part of the fight against child trafficking. It's just such an incredible story. Before we get into that, there is something that we do on every single episode and that is

accidentally unfiltered. Oh wow. Okay. We harmonized quite well just then. you are a very bad singer way to kick me out of nowhere shot to the ribs but like if there was ever going to be a reality tv that you were asked to do it's definitely not going to be the masked singer i secretly want to do that show so badly let's get into accidentally unfiltered so for those of you who are new to the podcast and don't know what an accidentally unfiltered is this is where you all write in your most embarrassing stories what is it that's happened in your life that you every time you think about it it sends a cringe of shivers down your spine that is this story and we tell them

together and then we all laugh about it because laughing at our own humiliation is very binding it makes us feel good it creates community and that is the backbone on which life uncut has been made this one gave me a real chuckle i spent the weekend with a friend with benefits and i went to suck his penis oh my goodness it tasted absolutely awful and usually it tastes just fine so i did it for about 30 seconds and my mouth then started tingling and then my mouth went no no no i'm gonna vomit so i stopped later i asked if he had used anything on his penis and he said no nothing at all just shower soap it wasn't until he got out of the shower that night that he said hey i actually lied to you before i had used pepanthan on it i had sucked pepanthan

cream off his dick and have had the taste of pepanthan in my mouth all day this kind of thing It always happens to me. Fuck my life. What's Pepanthen? Pepanthen is like an antiseptic cream. But also why is he using antiseptic cream on his penis and then you're having to suck it? Like there's so many layers to this that are wrong.

Like if you have had to put antiseptic cream on your penis, don't put that penis in someone's mouth. I love how stubborn he is though. He's like, it's fine. It's just soap. Okay, truly though, we've all used that tingly mint soap before, which makes everything feel a bit burny and owie, right? That tingly body wash where you're like, why would anyone do this?

I don't know how that thing is allowed. It needs to come with a little X, like a black box label on the back of the packaging. Wait, hang on a second. You never shower. Excuse me, I never shower. When have you ever used mint body wash? Yeah, not often.

When was the last time you washed full stop? Am I right? This morning. okay well i feel like it's time for us to get in to the bigger part of this episode matt it has been a joy having you on the podcast i hope that you guys all enjoyed the light-hearted start of what this episode was oh i'm sure they did oh i'm sure they did i'm sure they did but it's time for us to shift gears now and brit is rejoining me in this conversation that we had with dr katarina rosenblatt

as we mentioned this conversation with katarina rosenblatt although she is incredibly empowered resilient a wonderful woman we do cover some very dark themes in this conversation if conversations around sexual assault or sexual violence are triggering for you in any way then maybe this episode isn't for you you can sit this one out or you can come back and listen to it at another time dr katarina rosenblatt is internationally recognized as a human trafficking survivor leader she has a personal story of human trafficking from the time that she was 13 years old to the time of 17 and throughout her early life she experienced several separate trafficking scenarios she was recruited through a friend in middle school into then a more organized crime

of trafficking rings now all of her experiences centered in the metropolitan area of miami florida Often sex trafficking is thought of as happening only in non-Western countries. However, every year globally, 1.8 million children are sex trafficked every single year. And in America, there is an estimated 300,000 children that are at risk of being lured into the sex trade. Dr. Katerina has published a book named Stolen, The True Story of a Sex Trafficking Survivor. And she also serves as a consultant to the Department of Homeland Security and FBI. Katerina, welcome to Life Uncut. Thank you so much, ladies, for having me and for having the bravery to tackle this topic.

Now, Kat, you were trafficked from the age of 13 to 17. And the fact that you've survived after being trafficked three separate times is incredible on its own. What you're doing now is absolutely incredible, educating people. But let's start from the very beginning. What was your childhood like before this first day that you were trafficked? So when I was growing up here in South Florida, I came from an affluent family. My father was a millionaire. And when my parents divorced, my single mom became broke, you know, as happens

with domestic violence. So my father was very abusive. And we lost our mansion, we lost all the money and he controlled everything. My mom tried her best to make a life for us. But my father being in my life, I believe was a negative in so many ways, because that was the only example I had of a male figure. He would physically abuse us, you know, he would verbally abuse all of us. and my dad was a businessman in the community but he was a rageaholic and so he took all his rage out on me and I became the family scapegoat from there. Katrina I'm so sorry that that is something that you have experienced before we get further into your personal story I just think it might be so important because I think I had a bit of a misunderstanding or a bit of a skewed

perspective of what actually constitutes sex trafficking could you explain to us what that is and what encompasses child sex trafficking. And I think it's so important that people do understand the foundation because for many of your listeners, this may be the first time that they're hearing about it. Under the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, which is our U.S. law, okay, so I'm in the U.S., but this is generally the known law and the Palermo Protocol, which governs the international law, kind of mirrors it. So this is taken from the Palermo Protocol. And it says anyone under the age of 18 who's engaged, that means any minor who's engaged in any form of commercial sex, stripping, porn, prostitution, massage parlors, and prostitution

could even be a girl sleeping with her boyfriend's friend so that he can make rent. That would be commercial sex. So any form of commercial sex, and she may not even know it. She may not be a participant to it. And like me, she may not even receive any benefit, but there is a commercial exchange for that sexual favor. It also entails adults, anyone over 18, who's either forced or through fraud or coercion into these same lifestyles, commercial sex or forced labor is also a victim of trafficking. And over 18, if there is forced fraud or coercion, there has to be those elements for adults but for minors there does not but because you're a child you don't usually understand what's going on that's why they don't require it but a lot of

times there is all of those elements anyway. Kat a really common misconception for I think a lot of people but definitely for myself when I was looking into your story and something that I found really quite incredible was I was always under the impression or when I thought about something like sex trafficking I think I always thought that it was just this group of people that came and kidnapped a small child and ran off and and that was it like a very traumatic kidnapping event smuggled them somewhere else and that's where their life sex trafficking began but that's not the case for you is it this was a more of a quite a slow grooming so can you take us back to the very first day that this started for you right and not to discount that that happens also

in terms of sort of like a snatch and grab off of the street. Because when I've gone back into the schools, even the same school where I was recruited and trafficked, girls have told me that they've been grabbed off of the street outside of the school and recruited into trafficking, you know, sold into sex trafficking. So every pimp, every trafficker works differently, but their motives are the same for money and the tactics through a false friendship is usually the same through a false love relationship anything that can bind the child to the trafficker and I'm going to speak specifically regarding minors because that's who I have worked with in helping to come out of trafficking is minors and I was a minor so at 13 years old I was recruited into

sex trafficking at a hotel in Miami Beach. When I was staying there with my mom, she had left my abusive father, as I mentioned, again, in my case, it was leaving this situation and getting into something worse. So my mom took two buses to work. She still worked for my father because she was financially dependent on him. And a foreigner herself, she felt like she had no choice. But It was the summertime. I was in between sixth grade to seventh grade. And there was a trafficking ring network throughout the hotel preying upon vulnerable, innocent children for the purpose of meeting the demand of sex tourists who were coming to Miami Beach looking for sex with minors. And these were the traffickers. So I have this formula that I created. If you have vulnerability, anyone who has a vulnerability, as I mentioned, my father was wealthy. He was a Jewish businessman. It doesn't matter. He was abusive. He created a vulnerability in me, what I call a daddy hole, a hole in my heart for a father figure. There is some form of vulnerability and then you take that vulnerability plus the opportunity. Just given the trafficker the opportunity, I was there alone at the pool.

I was vulnerable, had been abused, had low self-esteem. And so that vulnerability plus opportunity equals exploitation. And I guess with that whole conversation around a vulnerability, also wanting to have a friendship. you know I think and this is something we'll get into it's not like being groomed but being groomed by having somebody come up and present themselves as a friend I think for so many small children their friendships are so important to them and they also don't want to disappoint their friends can you talk to us a little bit about how that played into your experience yes that's very good I've never had an interviewer identify or understand that to that length and I

appreciate it as a survivor. So when I was 13 years old, as I mentioned, I was at the pool area and this older girl approached me and befriended me at the pool. Her name was Mary and she would be my first recruiter or trafficker because she was already an adult. She was 19 and she was thin and pretty. She had a red bikini and she was like a model, like everything I thought I wanted to be, you know, as a young, impressionable teenager. And so not having a lot of time and attention from my mom, because she was working all the time, you know, she was a wonderful mother, very nurturing. But I still longed for that sense of belonging and sense of acceptance, you know, and love. So Mary befriended me at the pool area, and she did what I call

reflective listening. So she would listen to my story and then she would reflect it back as if it was her own. And they do this as a tactic to gain the trust of the survivor because they want you as a child to believe them. They're going to say the same thing. They're just going to mirror everything that you're hurting. Oh, your father was abusive to you. My father was too. Oh, you're left at home alone a lot. I was too. You know, we have a lot in common. Is this a sense of trauma bonding almost? It is trauma bonding. Absolutely, Britt. You hit it on the head. It took an average of a month for them to gain my trust and for me to gain their trust that I bought into it, that I was hooked. And that was an everyday investment.

These traffickers, this is their business. This is their livelihood. So they are investing every day, just like you're investing in this podcast. This is your livelihood. That's what they're doing. They are monitoring, they are surveilling, they are watching their next victim and how that victim communicates, lives, who they live with. They study their victims before they pounce on them. Over this one month period, Mary has become your best friend, your closest ally. She's the girl that you trust she then introduced you to an older man who obviously you didn't know but ended up being a pimp what was this first introduction to this man like what was the first thing that happened to you where you thought something isn't right this man looked like somebody

you would want to date he had blonde hair and blue eyes and he was very handsome but the disarming part was that he had two and three-year-old little children at the pool with him. These are his kids. It was planned that Mary had me meet her pimp at the pool while he was with his little kids because he knew that that's what would get to my heart. My biggest need that I kept telling Mary was a need for love from a father figure. I just wanted my dad to love me. I just wanted his acceptance his approval and he shook my hand and he said you know I've heard a lot about you Kat is there anything that you need if you ever need anything you can just ask me and I felt like oh my goodness for the first time wow I can actually have my needs met and believe it or not when they

give you something you feel like you owe them now they own you and you owe them when I've heard you tell your story before I remember you saying something using the word a john is that who this man is and can you tell us what is a john sure yeah for our listeners the john is the person who is buying the sex they're paying for sex with a minor and they know exactly what's going on there's no accident there's no myth there's no misunderstanding like in Australia I know it's legal for prostitution. But these are men that are going in the dark web because they want the illegal stuff. They want the illegal children, you know, the women that are held captive. And I believe a lot of it is centered on power. They just want to have power over this human being.

So going back to my story, you know, Mary had gained my trust. Her trafficker who told me I could call him daddy, he gained my trust. And he had given me a dollar for chips. And he said, one day you'll owe me. So he had that hook. Okay. He got me 13 years old. I felt like I owed him. I didn't know what that meant. Mary shrugged it off. The next day, she told me to put a little white dress on that there was a man who wanted to be a father just to me. And this man was a 65 year old sex tourist. I know it's disgusting. I'm looking at Britt's face. It is disgusting. I'm disgusted that these men and these situations exist. What were you thinking in that situation? Were you thinking, oh, there's someone that actually wants to take care of me. There's

someone that actually wants to be a father figure. Well, first she presented me with, this is going to be a game that we're going to play. So you get to be the bride. Like you're important. You're special, right? They always make you feel special. I don't care if it's a man or a woman. Traffickers try to make you feel special. And when you lack that in your own home life, it's alluring to feel special. So I didn't even listen to half of the stuff she said. I just went along with it. And she said, you know, he's going to take you to dinners. He's going to take you to the mall. Every single thing that I said I wished my dad would do for me, she said he would do for me. So there I was with my little white dress. My parents didn't, my mom didn't have much

to buy me a nice dress. So I had a little jean jag dress and I put my mom's makeup on and I met Mary in the stairwell. And I thought this was going to be fun. But when this 65 year old man opened the door and he was half dressed with his beer belly hanging out, you can imagine to a 13 year old I was like ew like no I don't know I don't know what kind of dad this is but I'm not in Kansas anymore I didn't feel safe you know. Was he just there like in a bathrobe or like how had he presented himself at that moment? No he had his trouser gray trousers I remember like it was yesterday he had dress pants on and no shirt like he was ready to partake in his transaction and Mary waltzes me into his hotel room, locks the door behind her and says, here's your girl.

She's ready for you. And I'm thinking, what are we doing here? I thought this was going to be a father to me. You know, my dad, he did abuse me, but not in this way. This was very uncomfortable. You know, this man approaching me, touching me, caressing my shoulders, touching my hair, and looking at me with this lust. And so I remember feeling that stranger danger. Kat, I am so incredibly sorry that this is something that happened to you that you had to live through. It is horrifying, absolutely horrifying. And there's no other word for it. It is such a horrifying thing to think that a young 13-year-old girl has gone through this. so did you understand what was happening in this moment Kat like was there a moment that clicked

that this was a very unsafe environment at this point did you know that this is what you had been put in this room for and what this man had wanted from you when I was in the hotel room I did not understand and after getting my PhD and studying I realized that at 13 your frontal lobe is not fully developed. Not until you're 24, 25 as a female and 29 as a male, or for some people even longer, you know, you're emotionally, the trauma emotionally stunts your growth. So I didn't understand at all what was going on. I was innocent. My mom took me to a Billy Graham crusade where I received Jesus as my savior right before this. So it was like, I'm trying to be a good girl, I'm thinking white dress. I'm pure. I'm innocent. I'm good. I obey my mom. I don't know

what this guy is doing, but it doesn't feel right. So I couldn't put words to the feelings. And when he asked me to sit on the bed next to him, I said, no, I said, no, thank you. Because we're taught to be polite and to have manners, but we should teach children how to have self-defense. You know, that's more important in some cases. And at this moment, I really could have used that. Unfortunately, I didn't have that. I was taught to be polite and respect your elders. So I sat on the floor. I said, no, thank you. And right there, Mary started to, she had locked the door. I heard the door lock and she was sitting in front of the door so that I couldn't leave. you know I was blocked in with this man on my left if you can picture it he's sitting on the bed you know there's the nightstand and then there's the door on the right and Mary's sitting crouched in front of there mixing a plate of marijuana and I'm sitting on the floor I'm just praying and all of a sudden she's negotiating my price with this man she says to him how much will you

pay for her? And he says, 500. And Mary looks at me and she says, no, I want 550 because she's a virgin. And so there I was, Mary had negotiated the price. She agreed on the price. When she said 550, he said, okay. And he asked me, have you ever had sex with anyone? And I said, no. Then he was agreed $550. And he said, would anyone hear you if you screamed right now? I said, yes, my mother would hear me. And I'll scream really loud. She's cooking dinner for me right now. I honestly thought I was going home to have dinner with my mom. I didn't know that I would never be seen from or heard from again. But fortunately for me, that prayer worked and God answered and I was kicked out of the room. He got scared and he called it off. But unfortunately,

Mary didn't give up. When you at that point said, my mom will hear, that was the turning point. That's when he said, okay, we can't do this. Get out of the room. Well, this is because you're in the same hotel, aren't you? Yes. And he saw that with my little hands on my hips, I'm going to fight. I mean, I may not be much, but I'm not going willingly and I'm not drugged. So I'm not going to comply. And those things I believed along with the prayer saved my life that night. Unfortunately, I would be kidnapped and drugged the next day and left for dead by Mary. When you say you were kidnapped and drugged the next day, what happened? So you left and you got out of that hotel room that day. Was the kidnapping and the drugging as a revenge or was it because

they still wanted to bring you into this sex trafficking? What happened the following day? You got it. Somehow you really understand this issue. You guys have done your research and you get it. You know, this was my journey so that I can help others. They took me in a car and they told me again, it was my fault. Everything that happened was my fault. Mary made me promise not to tell my mom. And I didn't, I just told my mom that I made her upset. She was very, Mary was very angry at me. And she said, it was all my fault. She lost money. And so my mom said, I don't have a good feeling about her. And the next day they sent other kids. And I have to say, these other kids were like zombies. They were on drugs. This one girl, she was 16. Christina, she didn't even

know where she was or who she was. And that's what they become. And she was like, oh, you have to come with us to make it up to Mary. And I desperately wanted to make it up to Mary because I thought it was my fault. At 13, an abuse victim already, I thought it was my fault. And that's why they prey upon these type of children and you're somehow responsible and it's not your fault and you're not responsible. And so unfortunately I went with them until we got around the corner. And then there was an 18 year old boy there and he shoved me into the back of a car and he said, you have to come with us. And it wasn't voluntary. I mean, I wanted to make it up to Mary, but I didn't want to leave. So they drove me around and left me somewhere far away from the hotel where I didn't

know where I was. And they told me if I ever wanted to see my mom again, I had to take this pill. When my mom did find me, I had passed out, but not before staggering to a payphone and dialing zero and talking to the operator. And they put me through to the hotel and they were able to locate me. But I was so drugged that I really couldn't even speak coherently. And so they realized that something had happened to me. So they were able to locate me. And the doctor told my mom that the pill that they gave me was supposed to kill me was meant to kill me. So I had to stay up with her all night walking around the hotel. The whole time she was telling me Mary's not your friend, you know, kind of like nagging, I felt like it was nagging, because I did not blame Mary still,

even though I experienced attempted murder. I didn't blame Mary. A few days later, I snuck out of the hotel while my mom went to look for an apartment for us in North Miami. And when I snuck out of the room, I saw Mary and she was recruiting a 10-year-old little boy. And when she looked at me, she looked like she saw a ghost. And I saw the hatred in her face. And I wanted to scream out to this little boy, don't trust her. But I couldn't then. That's when I knew she wasn't my friend.

But now I can help little boys and girls come out of trafficking. because I survived for a reason. So what happened with the second story? So the next time you were trafficked was middle school. So the first one was 13. There were obviously a few years between the next one. Is that right, Kat? Well, no, it's not, not even a few years. It's a few months because that was the end of the summer. And then my mom moved us to an apartment and I had to start middle school, which now I feel like a big kid, you know, seventh grade. So I go to middle school and there's something about kids that come from abusive homes. You know, you kind of find each other, right? And you have a clique or a group. So we were what was called the burnouts. So we

were all hanging out and we would all go to this place called the bridge and we would drink beer or smoke cigarettes or smoke weed. And it wasn't ideal for any teenager by any means, but it was a sense of belonging. And like I said, you know, my mom had taught me to say no to drugs. So I fought that as long as I could. But now there was this intense peer pressure. So that kind of went out the window. And in my middle school, I was introduced to cocaine. And I meet this girl that she's part of our clique, part of our group comes from an abusive home. And she invites me for a sleepover. And another girl joins us. And eventually, the sleepover that I thought it was going to be, you know, pool party and pancakes turns into drugs and alcohol and older men. And

so now these older men who are friends of her dad's fishing buddies, they came over and pick the girls that they wanted and even if you ask me today the love that they showed us it still feels real because I didn't know the difference. So when you when you say the love that they showed you the first instance where trafficking happened it was feels like a really scary situation being locked in a room not being given any agency any choice this real like captive sort of feeling the second incidence being more like a party being more like they're trying to create it with these positive tones of like, you have opted into this situation. How did that unfold then for you? How did this whole grooming process and like feeling like you had love from these men, how did that

develop? So here, this is a family trafficking situation because her dad was using his daughter to recruit. He already had sexually abused her. And there is family trafficking where parents sell their children for drugs or money, or they're just sick. I remember being in my friend's house, these men coming over, you know, we had been drinking, which at 14, this heavy liquor. I mean, they were trying to get us in a position where we couldn't disagree with them to be compliant. Yes, to be compliant. And so the men picked out the girls they wanted and gave her father I saw them give him $40 for each of us to spend the night with us. I didn't know it was involving sex because I still felt like as a virgin, like I'm not really seeing what this is all about.

Next thing I know, I'm being taken down to a car and there is a driver, another man in the front who I later found out was called the enforcer. And we were blindfolded. And we were driven from one county in Miami-Dade County to another county, Broward County. And there they had, I used to call it a secret apartment, but then Homeland Security corrected me. They said it was a brothel. This is what they use for having sex with trafficking victims. You know, it's just an apartment used for sex. Unfortunately, at that time, there were no laws. And I didn't know what they were doing. But I knew being blindfolded was not a good thing. And I remember peeking under, and I saw my friend who brought us there, the daughter, she wasn't blindfolded. And she looked

very worried. And she looked very guilty. You know, so she was being abused at home also. do you think the friend your friend do you think she knew what she was doing do you think she knew this had happened before do you think she knew she was bringing you to her house for a sleepover for the purpose of these men to come and get you and take you to a brothel and do you think she was just far too scared to do anything about it and she was just trying to be compliant with these older men that were forcing her to both but I don't think she was ever really my friend I think she was just scared and she was trying to survive I no longer blame her, but I did need a lot of counseling to deal with that. How long did they keep you there for?

Was this something that was just the night? Was this something that was more a prolonged period? How long did you stay here for? So overall, it was a few weeks. I really don't know because once they gave us the drugs and we were on coke, the days just turned into nights. I just know that my mom was looking for me. When you were there and you were held, could you have left if you had had agency if you had been able to talk back or fight back do you think in that moment you would have been able to leave or do you feel like at that point there's no way even if you had been able to ask to leave that situation you wouldn't have been able to they tried to make it seem like you said like we're big girls we're doing this you know we're family but there wasn't really

anything to this apartment other than a sofa a table beds the men that came they had daughters our age and I remember you know feeling like falling like I felt love for one and I thought it was love that this 40 year old man I thought he had love for me and never having experienced love I didn't know the difference so it was easy to buy into the lie you know freedom and all this until you're sitting on the sofa and you're sore and you're contemplating your life, all of a sudden, I just remember I had been gone a few weeks. I don't know how long I was missing. It was a regular day, like today, regular afternoon. I should have been in school, right? But I wasn't. And I remember this thought came to my head that it was almost like as if

God was speaking to me, that he had a plan for me and this wasn't it. And at that moment, I looked at the door and it took incredible courage, to be honest, to get up because this enforcer, he was mean. He would tell us to shut up. He would tell me, you know, when I would ask, like, when are we going home or anything like that, he would just be very, very mean. And so we knew not even to mess with him, but he would guard the door. So the men would come into the apartment and deal with him. And then, you know, we were to do whatever we were told. But at this moment, he wasn't guarding the door. He had gone to get cigarettes and we had become so compliant. I think he didn't think twice that we would leave, but I felt this conviction in my heart. And I do believe

that was God just giving me the courage to get up, go to the door and unlock all the locks because there were several locks. And I just felt like freedom, but I just had to get this freedom. I had to get out of there. And I got, I unlocked all the doors, you know, and I thought maybe I can come back for her or something, but I had, now's my chance. I just realized I had to get away. And I ran into the daylight and I just ran as far as I could. And I just started crying. I was bawling. And I was just like, this is freedom. What ended up happening to your friend in this situation? You said that you felt like maybe you would go back to get her or that you would try and get help. Like that's such a huge responsibility for a 14 year old child to

even remotely get their head around, especially when at that time you may not have even realized what was going on the full complexities of what was going on what happened to her so imagine I'm there in the parking lot and I'm looking around I'm crying I'm crying I want to go home I have no idea where Broward County is because I don't drive so I don't know how to get home I just remember thinking like nobody's gonna help me I honestly felt already a little bit like the world had kind of let me down like I was already spiraling so I didn't expect anyone to help me I hoped that somebody would take me home to my mom because I knew she was worried about me. I knew she was a good mom. She was worried about me, but she also had to deal with my brother

and other issues. So there were people that saw me, but what they saw was a disheveled teenage girl, like 14 year old girl. Why are you skipping school? That was the look. So the only ones that came to get me were the traffickers. And my friend was with them and the John. So they sent my friend and she said, you got to come back with us because if not, we're both going to get in trouble. So she tried to convince me and I went back with her because they promised that they would let me go home. I was making such a problem for them. Now I was fortunate because working in Miami working in this field, girls who make a problem don't always come out alive. So because I gave them a hard time, they brought me back to the traffickers house and they let me call my mom.

But back then, you know, there weren't cell phones. They had two extensions, you know, and they were listening on the other end and they were putting their fists up and they said, you better not tell. Right. Cause they had sat me down in a chair, three, three grown men intimidating me, threatening me, telling me they knew where my family lived. They knew who my teachers were, my friends at school. They knew where I went to school, everything about me. They know everything about their victims, about their prey. And so I said to them, listen, I already know how this works. You know, of course I wasn't that bold. I was just saying, I know I'm not going to tell anyone. Okay. And I think as well, because you potentially

because you had taken the drugs because you had gone to the party originally and you're a kid there's some some level of guilt there's some level of feeling like did I like am I partly to blame in this you know there's always especially when you're so young and you can't understand what's being done to you and that you had no opt-in to this that it was all like this was all orchestrated around you there would be some feelings of like maybe I'm partly to blame so I'm not going to tell anyone because I don't want to feel guilty or I don't want to I don't want people to know what's happened I don't want to be in trouble oh yeah definitely oh that's the biggest one I don't want to get in trouble I don't want to go back to school and then tell anyone that's

probably the biggest one is the shame the shame factor like I don't want to be embarrassed if I go to school and people know what I've done like they're gonna label me as a prostitute or they're going to call me a hoe or a slut. You know, I do not want that. I do not want that. So you know what? I'm just going to leave quietly. I'm just going to get away from this situation. And my mom, my dad picked me up and I had, because my mom didn't drive, they, she was in the car with him and I had the choice. Do I tell my mom and she gets beat up or do I tell my dad and we both get beat up, you know, because he was had a violent temper. He was like, where's your daughter been? She's been gone for so long. Like it was my mom's fault. I felt responsible. I was like,

why did I let myself do this? And then I felt guilty because why did I pick these friends? You know, why did I fall for their friendship? When you're vulnerable, you're so you're so naive to so many things. You just pass by all the red flags, you know, of a real friend. You don't even look at it. Mary probably had red eyes, you know, beaming at me like devil eyes, right? But I would never have known because I was so hungry for a sense of belonging, for a friend, for love, for friendship. And it was just friendship, but it was like this older girl and I felt special. And then with my friend in middle school, she was an older girl and these men made me feel special. The love that I felt from them it was carnal it wasn't real love but it was still more than what I got at home

so did your mom and dad ever know what had happened to you was there ever a point that you had said I've these men have been having sex with me you wouldn't know what trafficking is obviously as a child were you ever really honest with them and told them what happened my dad went to his grave never knowing never I would never tell him I was so ashamed I was so ashamed I read a part of your story at one stage you and your mom you did go to a police station and you did try to report it and you were turned away they they didn't believe you they didn't want to listen to your story can you just briefly tell us about that moment that you actually did try to go and get help yes right you're right that was the one and only time and I thought okay

if I go to them you know now I'm in modeling school I wanted to be a model my mom had gone through so much with me. I mean, I was, I had been suicidal because of all of the experiences. So my mom, she puts me in John Casablanca's modeling school. I'm starting to get a little bit of self-esteem for my looks. People start telling me, you know, that I may have a future in this. And then I answer a false modeling ad. And when I answer the ad, the guy on the other whose name was Eddie Egan. If you look him up, he is a former retired NYPD detective, which I didn't know until I went to LA to do work. And I did an interview there. They told me Eddie Egan is the man they made the French connection about. I answered Eddie Egan's ad

for a movie and he wound up being a trafficker and an abuser. And he lured me into his office in Hollywood, Florida. But first he had to ask a series of questions. He says, we're doing a movie. You're going to play a runaway, prior abuse. All of these are super red flags. So when I went to his office, he told me that he had pictures of like famous people in his office. And he said, you have to show me that you really want this and show me some skin, you know, and he had told me to wear something provocative. And I had been on casting calls and modeling calls before. But this one just seemed like there was just too much of that. So I start showing him a little bit, you know of skin right just a little bit and I'm like is that enough he's like no he comes around his

desk this is an office in Hollywood Florida on a Saturday morning and mind you there's not like a bed there there's a desk there's a sofa and a chair and I'm in the chair and he says if you want to be in this movie with Lorenzo Lama that was his big you know whatever to lure me in right He says, you have to show me that you can do some sex scenes. And I was like, I really don't know if I want to do that. Is there any way I can get around? I'm trying to talk myself out of it. I don't want to be in that situation. And this guy coming around from his desk and having gone through what I've gone through, I know men. And I'm like, this dude is about to pull something on me. I knew it. I just, I could feel it. And he says, I want you to kiss me. And he had these

crusty lips. He had this red hair, crusty lips. He smelled like cigarettes. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm disgusted. He's sticking his tongue in my mouth. And then he drops his pants and he's, you know, forcing me to perform oral sex. And I'm like, how did I get here again? Honestly, like you said, Laura, I'm blaming myself. I'm like, what happened that I wound up in this situation again? The reality is that once you've been exploited, the opportunity to be re-exploited is very high. Yeah, that was something I wanted to ask you.

You've had these separate incidences in your life that have not been connected, that have happened as isolated instances where you have been trafficked by different men, by different pimps. You spoke about it earlier, this idea of a vulnerability, but what do you think was the main thing that made you such an easy target? This vulnerability, you know, honestly, I mean, I know we're probably going to get to that question because most interviewers ask me, well, what is your life like now? How is your dating life? Okay. So let me just tell you ahead the time. I have dated and I have been raped. I still am vulnerable. I wish I could sit here and tell you, I'm Dr. Kat and I have it all together. And I have these two books and this wonderful

foundation and my life is perfect. No. Okay. It doesn't work like that because I was never given the opportunity to really explore in a healthy way, a love relationship. So I went from all these terrible, bad instances to even this crusty old man exploiting me, laying me on the sofa. I mean, it was just, it was terrible. I escaped, went to the police. They didn't believe me. Well, they actually knew who he was, so they wouldn't take a report. I shouldn't say they didn't believe me. They just wouldn't do anything about it. And they told me I was a juvenile delinquent. But my mom said to me, you don't have to be what these men are trying to make you. And that was a turning point for me. And that's why I believe mentoring from survivors to survivors is so important. Because I open up and I share my vulnerabilities and what I've done, what has happened to me, what my life has been like. And as a result, we learn from one another.

You know, I just came from a retreat where there were 70 survivor leaders, and I love them all. But we don't all know everything. And we had a class on sex ed at this retreat, which was wonderful. And the sex therapist gave us for the first time gave me the insight that I needed on why am I vulnerable to these men, it doesn't matter how many times you get knocked down, you still get back up and keep fighting. so tell us now Kat what you are doing to fight this fight because you have dedicated so much of your life and your time to trying to protect other people and stop them from going through what you went through and that's an incredible thing for you to survive and then immerse yourself in every single day and have to revisit that trauma that you went through I can't imagine what it's like to go through it let alone relive it trying to help other people but tell us what you're doing and what that looks like. I actually really enjoy working with survivors. It's healing for me. You might've heard that from other survivors. It's healing when you can empathize with another

person who's been in your shoes and you've been in theirs. It's almost like we replaced that bond that the traffickers had with them with now a safe bond with a mentor. Kat, for someone who has been through so much in their lifetime you are such an incredibly resilient woman and the fact that you still every day dedicate your life to helping victim survivors and to help victims who maybe don't even fully know or are fully aware of what they're going through of what they're being exposed to to educating parents to educating children it's truly in a room such a remarkable thing. And we're so grateful for you sharing your story with us. We're so grateful for you talking about this on our platform. How can people find you? If people want to connect with your

story, if they want to follow you, if they want to find out more, what is the best way for them to do that? So I have a website, www.thereishopeforme.org. If they would like to book a speaking, because I do public speaking, they can go to www.drcat.net. And my books are available, Trafficking in America, Stolen. If you go through our website, that helps to support the survivors. And we have a campaign that people can donate $13 a month. And the reason 13 is because that's the average age of entry into the life of sex trafficking in America. And so you can represent a young girl that has been helped that is struggling to survive because remember just coming out of it is not enough it takes a community to help a survivor become a thriver

but I believe there's hope for them if there was hope for me well look at what you've gone on to do you're leading by example and you're doing amazing things thank you so much we cannot thank you enough for coming on and sharing your story today so thank you so much thank you Britt and Laura it was such a pleasure and I appreciate you. All right, guys, you know that we never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet, a highlight and a low light of each and every week. And this week, Maddie J, it's you and me, baby. Ain't nothing but mammal. Okay, what's your sweet for the week? Actually, no, sorry. What's your suck for the week? My suck would be, I don't think it's major surprise for you but i it would be the fact that i had to work and be away from marley on her

birthday oh i missed her so when it came to you having to make a choice be at your three-year-old's birthday be present or go to the logies how hard was that decision making for you look i okay i didn't spend a long time deliberating but do you know what i think you actually decided to go to the logies before you remembered it was her birthday and then it was the week after and you We're like, shit, that falls on Marley's birthday. Okay. You're good. You're very good.

You're very good. That is true. You've got a point. That is true. And I have Marley's birthday tattooed on my arm. And I still forget it. He actually does. He's got her birthday, the 19th of the 6th,

tattooed on the back of his bicep and managed to – you needed to tattoo it somewhere that wasn't on the back of you. It needed to be on the front of you. That's the problem. But I feel like she – we had a little FaceTime I mean, I don't think she really even cared that I wasn't there. To be honest, I thought she would miss you more. Oh, don't – that was me fishing to be like, Laura?

She missed you this morning, but yesterday – What happened this morning? She just, like, woke up and she was like, where's Daddy? And I was like, Daddy's away. He left us. He's been socialising with famous people. We're not good enough for him anymore. He's changed.

So what was your sweet for the week? My sweet would be the fact that, okay, two celebrities who I – I guess they're like my kind of guilty pleasure people who I still get really starstruck by. When you say they're your guilty pleasure, what happens to you? I just get quite flustered. And I just, I love Hamish Blake. I love him so much.

You fanboy him. You know, I paid to have his entire back catalogue of radio shows downloaded as an app. Matt also has Hamish Blake's birthday tattooed on his back as well. On my other arm. um no i i love him i love him so much getting to talk to hamish blake in the flesh was incredible i also really like carl stefanovic did you choke whilst interviewing these people or did you feel like you had got your a game by then like would they did they walk away and you were like yeah

okay cool you nailed that or was it more of an angry situation i would love to know i would love to know if they walked away thinking that guy was shitting himself or if they were like oh that guy was really nice i i don't know i think maybe i hit it it wasn't my best i can do better but it was like now that i've got one out of the way i think next time around it'll be a lot better i can tell when you're really nervous because your eyes get really beady yes yes how beady do they get it's like why do i get beady eyes i hate it so much i watch myself back and i'm like it's all the adrenaline i can't watch back our episode the very first episode of bachelor when I was walking down the carpet towards you because my eyes,

there was so much adrenaline pumping through me that my eyes are so bug-eyed. They look like they are popping out of my head. Like they're extended half a centimeter out of my face. That's why I picked you because I was like, you'll sympathize with my beady eyes as well. You're like, ah, prominent eyes, this one. She looks perfect. Our poor kids.

All right. My suck for the week. My suck is, this is a really dumb suck, but I get very scared at nighttime when I'm on my own. It's really stupid. it I get really I just get really very scared and I have to lock all the windows and door obviously we lock the windows and doors at night time but I have to get up multiple times to make sure that everything's locked and I ended up sleeping in the same bed with Marley because my big protective

three-year-old is gonna save me no I just I hate being at home alone at night time and I felt more comfort sleeping in the same bed as Marley sometimes when you get scared it scares me I'm fine I'm like about to fall asleep and then you go what was that noise and then I'm like I'm a particularly anxious person at night time. I think it's always, I've always been the case, but there's something about as soon as it gets dark, I get quite scared. Do you remember when we heard some noises

and then you asked if I should go and check the attic at night time? No, wait, this is what happened. We came home after a weekend away and we walked into the, we unpacked everything. We walked into the bathroom and there was a toothbrush in the bathroom that neither of us had seen before. Matt was like, hey, Laura, is this your toothbrush? and I was like no that's not my toothbrush is that your toothbrush and he was like he was like no it's

it's in the bathroom we were so scared and I was like what do you mean it was in the bathroom anyway this went on for over an hour then we went to bed that night and I was so riddled with fear that I'm I'm almost I mean I tried to force Matt but I couldn't physically make him do it because he's a lot heavier than me I wanted him to climb up and check the attic because I thought maybe someone was living in our room and there was absolutely no way I was doing because I was petrified we are such losers do you know whose toothbrush it was it ended up being one of my friends who had house sat at house months earlier so that's a very stupid story for you still very scary so and what's even scarier is the fact that a toothbrush had sat in our bathroom for so long

we'd never noticed it i now use that toothbrush that's just you do not use that toothbrush that is now my travel toothbrush i'm joking i'm joking why would i do that that's so weird you know how feel about sharing toothbrushes okay my my that was when i suck i get scared at night time that was a very long it took a really long time to get there can i can i guess what your sweet is that's not how this segment works but yes hey we're mixing it up is your sweet the fact that i am now on the podcast with you after a very long hiatus i'm very thrilled and what some people wouldn't know is that all we do is bicker throughout these entire records that's why we can't do a podcast together because we would end up having to get divorced we fight too much

we do um my sweet for the week is that i took the weekend off work and spent some real quality time with the kids so much so that they both cried when they went to daycare this morning and you know you know that that is a mark that they have had a freaking good weekend because usually our kids run into daycare super happy but they clung to me and i was like yes i am the mother my children love me that's what happened this morning let's don't forget you also managed to watch the sinner without me that was also actually i'm gonna tell you this last two episodes sucked you haven't missed out on anything buddy okay great anyway that's it from us and guys if you have enjoyed today's episode that is a very good thing because maddie j will be back on thursday answering all

of your deep your dark your burning questions if you have any questions hang on a second hang on a second hang on a second you never asked me for more than one episode you said just one on the tuesday and that's where it stopped i thought i would spring it on you because i know how much you love doing content i know how much you love being on this podcast and i know how much you love answering listener questions and you wouldn't dare leave these people hanging i couldn't do it to the fans laura you couldn't do it and we want to know if there is anything that you want a man's perspective on because maddie j is a man and he can answer your questions from a man's perspective as long as it's got nothing to do with foreplay i'm happy to answer them and if you've loved the

episode go hit five stars leave a review and you know the drill tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your friends and share the love because and tell hamish blake and carl stephanovic because we love love we love we love love we love again we're ready one two three what are you why are you speaking like that what do you mean that's how i yell ready Thank you for watching.