Life Uncut - The Great Unf*ckening - Your Brain's Middle Finger To People-Pleasing

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Laura has reached a milestone - her sex life has returned after having her 3rd baby but her hip flexors aren’t on board. If you or your partner has had a baby how did you go getting back ‘into’ it?Britt was in a dilemma with her Uber driver and it resulted in her inviting a complete stranger into Keeshia’s house for a rather awkward reason. Britt has also tried to get in touch with her ‘natural’ side and she has learnt the very real dangers of leaving your crocs behind.  Ageing Out of Fucks: The Neuroscience of Why You Suddenly Can’t Pretend AnymoreLast week we briefly spoke about Janette being ‘dumped’ on the bachelor and how being in the life stage that she is may have contributed to having less f*cks to give when it comes to acting in the way that the public expects you to. A fantastic substack written by Ellen Scherr argues that many women hit a midlife neurological and hormonal shift that makes them suddenly unable or unwilling to people please. This shift is what she calls “The Great Unf*ckening.” It’s not bitterness, but biology: the brain stops supporting the emotional labour and social smoothing that women have been conditioned to perform since childhood. We speak about how many relationships can break down when women reach this age where they stop taking on as much of the emotional labour of the relationship and stop suppressing their own emotions and frustrations. We also chat about some of the hormonal and neurobiological changes like oestrogen dropping, synaptic pruning and changes to the prefrontal cortex.Losing relationships because you stopped performing isn’t actually loss. It’s clarity about what was never really there. You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Hosted by Britt Hockley & Laura Byrne Produced by Keeshia Pettit Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford Recorded on Cammeraygal Land Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany. I'm Laura. Hi everyone. Did your butt clench? Keep it tight. Keep it tight. Keep it tight. Keep it light. No, I am clenching because I'm trying to do Kegels all the time now because I think I have the organ prolapse.

That's not the funniest way to start. Wow, Laura, way to bring the mood down. Like we're like, haha, butthole. She's like, I'm prolapsing. That wasn't even why I said, are you clenching? Because we were talking about Brittany. No, I know. I know.

But I am worried. I'm going to go to a pelvic floor specialist because, yeah, I think there's signs. There's signs of a prolapse, guys. Is it that I can see your organs on the ground? That my colon is coming out of me. You've been dragging it in. You're like, I feel like something's attached to my shoe.

Is your inside still? Yeah, it's because I'm carrying my colon around in my handbag. You know those memes that it's like, if I won the lottery, I wouldn't tell anyone, but there would be signs. That's what I just pictured of if Laura has prolapse. She won't tell anyone, but there will be indications. What do you mean I won't tell anyone? As if I'm not going to tell all of you.

Yeah, true. There's nothing sacred in my life anymore. You guys know it all. Talking about nothing sacred, Laura and I were trying to have a business meeting the other day. It was very serious, but it was only via text. She tried to call me. I couldn't answer.

The most serious of platforms. No, because I kept calling Britt. Like we needed to sort some stuff out and I kept calling her and she'd hang up on me. But then she'd text me straight away. You know that person and they're texting and you can see they're online so you're like, I'll just call and we'll get this done quickly. You do do that a lot actually.

Or read the room, Laura. Read the room. There was a reason I was hanging up on you. So eventually she's like, answer your phone. I was like, Laura, I'm getting my butthole lasered as we speak. And then just in case you didn't believe me, I sent her a selfie with my laser goggles front on like this. Not the selfie of the butthole, a selfie of my face getting the laser.

And she's like, you're talking to me when you're getting butthole laser? And I was like, yeah, that's why I can't take your call right now. I'm glad. I'm glad that you still put so much effort into that part of your body because I haven't seen mine in a long time. I'm positive I have pretty bad hemorrhoids now. Sorry, everyone. This is really, this is a lot.

But we should start at the bottom and then go to the top. Surely if someone had to pick one of us to fuck, it's me now because you've got a pro-life and hemorrhoids. Surely I get to pick it. I got the lasered butthole. I'm sending this to Mitch Turi because he once chose you over me. To be fair, since the butthole is his poison, I don't reckon he's choosing mine anymore. So yeah, great.

Wow. Welcome, everyone. Welcome back to another episode. No, hang on. I will finish that. I'll finish that. It's not that I care that much. I did care, right?

So I started my laser process. Everyone that knows about laser, it's like 10, you need 10 packages. Like it's like, you can't just go and get laser once. it has that's a lie no it's not 40 it's not because I got it done years and years and years ago like 10 years ago and it was great and I didn't finish it and it eventually came back so this is why I'm finishing it so I think I only have maybe two more expeditions left but I tell you what it's a wild ride every time you go there like we were talking about it years ago with the waxing quiche every time you go there it's a different process I'm getting credit card slips

down my butt crack now sometimes they get it in there sometimes they pull it open sometimes I pull it open. This time they had me pull it open and she got right in there. It was a new girl I hadn't had. And so I was holding it whilst Laura was texting Laura with my chin in front of the phone, holding my butt crack open. Different style. So she was in there and she was like sort of going around the circle. And then she stopped for a minute and I thought she was done. And so I let the butt go and it trapped the laser in there. And she was like, oh, but I was like, oh, not done. And I had to pull it open. I was like, it's very humbling.

It was very. And I was like clenched it in there and the laser was in there like a pen. It was a whole thing. Like jelly. It was. Every time I go, there's some adventure. Guys, I've just given up. I have given, like I know that there will be a time when I care again.

Maybe, maybe. But right now it's not it. Out of sight, out of mind. Absolutely. And I've got really bad hip flexors now too, so I literally can't see it even if I wanted to. I can't bend down that far. Perfect.

And I constantly have a baby strapped to me. So like the last of my worries is what's going on behind me. I'm barely looking at what's in front of me. I don't fucking care. I think that's okay. I do want to apologize. I know I do this on every episode because I have Poppy strapped to me. But we are on borrow time.

We are playing Russian roulette with this baby now because normally we record at 8 o'clock, which is like when she goes back down for her second nap. It's 10.30. What the fuck are we doing? Like this is party time for these kids. So it could. We slipped a bit of rum on the gum. Yeah, I might actually only be on this episode for 20 minutes

and then Keisha, you're up. Yeah, who knows? I'll pass that baton. I have an update though, which is like a real personal update. Since we've started with all the filth first, I'll get it out of the way. I had sex with my husband first time post Baby Number 3. Thank you, thank you very much.

Can we release the pigeons? I mean the doves. Let me tell you, I released the moths more like it. The hare, he had to part through the jungle. Wait, I just pictured that scene from Scary Movie where he takes her undies off and the bush goes and pushes it to the roof. It was, no, no, no, we're fine, we're fine.

It was, I'm not going to lie though, it's very... Magical. No. Quick. No, daunting. Let's guess the ending. Pick your own ending. It's daunting.

It's daunting. Especially after number three because things are definitely more changed than what they were after one, after two. Hang on, was this on Sunday? Yeah. What was happening on Sunday? Did you manifest it for me? Is that when you were getting lazy?

No. Interesting. What happened? You saw my husband on Monday. Was he happier? And he was so much happier. I actually was like, wow, he was in a good mood. It's because you fucked the night before.

And it's been a long time for the guy. That makes so much sense to me. Well, it's been three months. So we didn't have sex for the last month of my pregnancy. And now Poppy's almost eight weeks old. So yeah, it's been three months. I mean, on one hand, you kind of feel like a virgin again because you're like, hello, I guess we're going to do this.

On the other hand, you feel far from a virgin. And anyway, it was great. we had great sags was it painful not painful i was expecting it to be painful wasn't painful was like very enjoyable like me made my face green along your journey i'm like what tell me what was the position we did all the positions did you come we did like more than one position like i know your hip flex is allowed that no i woke up the next day in agony but it wasn't because of anything that was going on internal what's that thing you get when you exercise doms delayed onset muscle soreness no i did something to a hip flexor and couldn't walk

the next day from riding the man i literally this hip flexor here i was like hobbled out of bed like this old lady sorry i don't want to victim blame here but if you're going to have sex for the first time after giving birth why the fuck are you riding that is surely it's a missionary that is your time to starfish i know we just we went on the side well you just imagine laura she's just like you are way too enthusiastic we tried three positions well also you've got missionary riding but yeah missionary side riding just you just roll also I don't know how other mums are doing this because I don't actually even remember it's been so long since Lola was a baby I don't remember are we doing it with the kid in the bassinet

next to the bed like is that what we're doing you can is that what we're doing no it is fine they don't remember it's a little bit disorientating though not gonna lie i have actually had an experience where like you're having the first time i had sex with my partner now i remember towards the end of it i looked down and delilah's head was placed up against the bed watch that's a bit weird because dogs get it more yeah also it's your dog too which kind of brings you into the room a little bit in a weird way. No, it really doesn't. I don't have telepathy.

I don't have telepathy with Delilah. Imagine if I was watching you have sex through Delilah. Go home and tell you what happened. That's so funny. No, I think dogs are weird, especially because Delilah, like she thinks I'm being hurt so she wants to get in there. So sometimes she's on the bed and I'm like, this is too much. Dogs are weird because, like, they can be put outside.

A baby, on the other hand, I can't just train. You can. And also she was asleep in the bassinet. No. You just wheel it to the hallway. it doesn't have wheels and if I was to transfer her at that point it's like so long even remotely getting down and doing anything she was in a deep sleep uh she was you know on the side of the bed but they but newborn babies make a lot of noise like they're not quiet and it's something that

unless you have kids you wouldn't really realize like you kind of just think like oh peaceful newborn baby the amount of noise that comes out and they're like it's not hot Matt was like I I thought that was you, Bex. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Too far. Anyway, look, we did it. Let's play a game, Laura or Poppy.

We got the first cab off the ranks. It was better than I thought it was going to be. I'm sure it'll be six weeks before we do it again. I was about to say, are we back? Are you back in the game? She's going to see the physio for her hip flexors and a pro-lapse. I'm going to go to a women's health physio. I think it's really important and it's not something –

It is. It is. It is. The jokes aside, like la-ha-ha-ha, it is very important. Yeah, and I've never done it before. I know I should have probably done it after the last two, but I haven't. I'm just doing Kegels. Every time I get to a red traffic light, it's the time where I clench because that's like

my reminder. So if I'm stopped at a traffic light, you better believe that I'm clenching my butthole. So what do you feel like if we take a serious turn for a second? When you say you're feeling a bit of a prolapse, are you just feeling it really heavy? Like, does it feel like it just bears down? Is it slightly painful? Can you physically feel something? No pain.

It just feels like gravity's taken hold a bit. And if I need to go to the toilet to do a poo, it's like an instant I need to go. And it feels like I'm going to, like, I know I'm not going to, it's fine. Like I'm not going to, it just feels like there's like, I'm fine, fine, fine, fine, instant pressure. And I'm like, okay, that's a weird sensation. So I, yeah, I'm going to go and get it checked out. I will report back.

And if I do have one, I'm happy to wave that flag, everyone, for all the women out there with prolapse. Good for you. I'm happy for you. I'm glad. Keep having sex with Matt because it makes my life better. Believe it or not, your sex life impacts me. Thank you.

Okay, well, I have an update. Tell me if I've gone too far. Probably. It is like me to go too far. But I don't know if you would have done this or not. And this is what I want your honest opinion. Because I have spoken about Uber drivers before. They have wanted to take me home and put me in their basement.

Can you blame them? Honestly, right? I'm a human. I got back from the Gold Coast on the weekend and got to the airport in Sydney. Got an Uber. Obviously, that's what you do. So, cause I don't have anyone here that will pick me up. I've just remembered where this story is going.

And so I ordered my Uber and I'm, I look at the app and it says he's here and I'm at the waiting area and I'm like, okay, looking around, I'm like, there he is, got his car, walked across to his car, locked no one in there. And I was like, look, looking down and I was like, it's definitely the numb plate. And I wrote to him in the message, I'm here. And he's like, yes, me too. I said, no, you're not. You're not in the car.

I said, no, I'm at the car and you're not here. And he said, coming. And I was like, okay. Waited for a little bit. A couple of minutes later, five minutes later, he arrived. And he's like, he was so lovely. And he was like, I'm so sorry. I had to go to the toilet.

I had to run across to the airport. I was like, that's okay. Like we all need to go to the toilet. And he's like, yes, yes, yes. Very, very busting. But there wasn't a toilet. And I said, oh. And he, so he obviously ran across to the airport, which isn't that close.

like you have to go a little bit he's obviously looked for the toilet realized that his ride has been accepted oh and you were like hurry back I didn't say hurry back but you know you get ratings and stuff so I'm sure he was like oh the toilet's probably too far she'll give me a bad rating whatever so he's just come back so we're in the car driving and I'm driving to Keisha's house because that's where I leave my car and my dog and so when I fly back in I go pick my car up anyway he's like do you mind if we stop for the toilet and I'm an IBS girly I know there is nothing worse than when you need to go to the toilet you have to go and I couldn't imagine well I couldn't imagine the outcome right if you're not going to stop the toilet what's the outcome going to be

I was like yeah of course you can stop and go to the toilet Brittany's like but please stop the what stop the clock yeah are you okay is this metered anyway so he pulled into a service station and he runs in and he's gone for a couple of minutes and he comes back out he's like no toilet and I was like oh my god I'm so sorry he's like oh drove for a couple of minutes he's like sorry do you mind if I stop again and I try again and I'm a nice person but in my head I was like oh fuck how long is this gonna take and I said yeah that's okay again because I I know what it's like and he's obviously busting pulls into another service station comes back minutes later no toilet I was like this is fucking comical I was like oh my god how is that the great toilet

tour of 2025 that's what it was and then we kept driving and I'm messaging Keisha because I gave her an ETA and I said bro I'm sorry we're late I said he hasn't gone to the we can't find a toilet you want to know wait you want to know what he did wait where did he go so then we keep going and he said sorry ma'am are you in a rush and I thought I was like he's gonna stop for the toilet again I said look sort of I was like a little bit because I thought he's just gonna stop at every toilet I said a little bit he's like okay and then I felt so bad so he drove me to Keisha's and I messaged Keisha. And I said, mate, I said, my Uber driver's busting. Guess who came through the door? Can he come in and go to the toilet? Yes, he walked into my house. That's amazing.

Shut the door behind him. To his credit, he was lovely. And I said to him, he pulled up and I said, do you want to use our bathroom? And then I said, there's multiple dogs in there and multiple people. Like I'm not alone. But I said, do you want to use the bathroom? And he said, oh my God, Can I? That is so generous of you to offer up Keisha's toilet. I checked it. I checked it with Keisha. No, I said, look, this is my sitch.

My Uber driver's about to either shat himself or we. Oh, you've got to do it. And so it was so funny. We opened it. We walked him in. We walked him to the toilet and then Keisha and I just stood outside and I walked him out and I was like, farewell, give me five stars. Pretty walked him to my front door to see him off.

I did. I saw him off and I was like, bye. If he doesn't give you a five-star rating for that, we should riot. But then somebody was like, you're crazy to let an Uber driver into your, to go to the toilet. Into my house. I vetted him. I vetted him for a solid 22 minutes.

He was nice. And I thought the guy's obviously busting. If you have stopped three times with a passenger in your car, like you're at critical state. I disagree on that mentality. If you're going to get in a car with him as a stranger, then it's fine for him to come and shit in your toilet. No, it's definitely different from going into a house

and locking the door. Yeah, but there's multiple people in there. If you're in there by yourself, I'd say that sounds like serial killer vibes but like if it's just yeah we're fine yeah you know I'm running an Airbnb now I actually saw a video on Instagram the other day that apparently I think it was Scotland sorry if there's any Scottish listeners and this isn't true I think there's a rule that if someone has to use your bathroom you legally have to let them in if somebody knocks on your door in Scotland and needs to use the bathroom you have to let them I don't think you're actually going to go

to prison or something if you say no but it's one of those old laws yeah gentleman's law do you know what the scottish national animal is sorry quickly okay i have a fun fact after this mine's funner mine's funner scottish national animal oh it's got to be something like a sheep that's i think that's giving new zealand uh loch ness monster no but no but you're not far real no you're not far off it's a unicorn oh stop it no i'm not lying does that say the land of the leprechauns but that's ireland they don't like it when you get that confused no i'm sorry about that sorry sorry Can I share my fun fact? Yeah.

So years ago when I was working in radio, one of the announcers found out, one of the breakfast hosts found out that there's some old law that you have to be able to tether your horse to your workplace. So he rode a horse to work and they had to free up a whole car space for him in the car park because apparently there's some old law that you've got to be able to park your horse. That is not a fun fact. That sounds very radio, doesn't it?

It does. That sounds like something a breakfast radio person would do. You know what it also sounds? Free parking in Sydney. Yeah, but like how? Do you have to pay for that? Let's get horses. Unless the horse is tethered to a car, it really isn't going to help me.

Can you imagine Laura going across the Harbour Bridge on a horse to get free parking? Just to make a point because I once worked in radio. Hey, I have a… In case you didn't know, everyone, we got fired. We didn't get fired. We chose to make a better lifestyle decision. We've made a better choice for ourselves and that's maternity leave until indefinitely. And car space payment.

We get free parking now. We didn't get free parking. I have another story that I want to tell you. But this is one of those stories that's not funny but funny. It's not funny but if we all laugh we could make it funny. So if it doesn't land, it's okay. Delete it. Edit it out.

It's funny because of what preceded it and it's not funny what happened. So Claire, who you guys have met a few times on the podcast, you might have seen her in our life. She works behind the scenes on Life Uncut. She's the one that we've been getting the most unfiltered dating stories on the podcast. allegedly just we've been describing her as our single friend no Claire was on the pod she came on here and she spoke about the app that's no longer running anymore the AI dating app that

we spoke about yeah like artificially linked you with someone but uh it flopped and they took it out of Australia we've spoken about her a few times so most of you will know who she is she's a good friend of ours so sorry I'm slurping my ice latte I know I shall stop so her and I went to she came to the Gold Coast with me last weekend and it was great fun now we went to get lunch and we had just been at the beach. We parked the car and we went to get these toasted sandwiches and we had to park down this like little alley and in a drive. It was about 150 meters away, I guess is what I'm trying to say, but it was in a gravel car park because we had been at the beach. We didn't have shoes on and we're like, oh, we can't be bothered to put shoes on. We're just going to

run up and get our toasty. So we started walking and we're like, oh my God, it's actually like so many, it was so sharp. We're like, let's walk on the grass on the side. And the grass was probably like 10 centimetres long and we literally were saying, oh, how nice is it just to be free, like to be barefoot. Did you guys take acid before this? No, Claire's a little bit, I don't know how to describe Claire. Claire's very natural, would you say? You were the one giving a sage to burn.

That's a good point. It's Claire. It's definitely Claire. No, but Claire, what I'm saying is we were walking, right, And Claire said, oh, it's probably good for us to have not worn shoes because we want to ground. It's good to ground. You know grounding where you walk barefoot on the ground,

you connect with the earth. And I was like, look, I'm not usually. Brittany likes to connect with Gucci shoes. Yeah. No, today's Prada. I like to connect with Prada. I don't want to connect with the ground. No.

If anyone's listening, I would also like to connect with Prada. Ground me with Prada, bitch. If Prada's listening, I want to connect with Prada. But she's walking along and she's like, it is probably good for us to ground. and I was like you're probably right I said look personally I'm not a grounder but I must admit it feels good she's like right it's important to connect with the earth and I was like you know what you're right I'm going to connect with the earth more then seamlessly seconds apart she said we should be grounding I said I'm going to connect with the earth more I took a step I went oh she

looked down and she goes is that a needle seconds apart you could not script this and this is what I mean by saying it's not funny she said it's great to ground I said I'm gonna do it more took a step ow is that a needle she looked down I had stepped on something oh no I have full needle she looks she looked down there was the syringe that didn't have the needle in it so was it a needle or was it a syringe well the plungy part or the syringe part was in front of Claire but it was missing the needle so the assumption is the needle is probably half a meter away in front of me and I've stepped on that and she's got the syringe anyway I just froze looked down and I was like I don't want to take another step but also is there a needle in my foot am I going

to have to be tested for HIV or something within seconds everything is running through your head because you're thinking oh my god fuck you Claire for making me ground for making me ground I was like is this the Pradas I was like this is why I wear Gucci no my Gucci Crocs that are like if I I had my Gucci Crocs on. There's no way a needle's penetrating those bad boys. No needle is getting through that. Anyway. What was the end of the story?

Are you okay? We like crabbed back to the room. Did you get a good hit? It was a great hit. I don't remember the rest of the day. Don't remember. That was it for me. I had a really good sleep after I sat everywhere.

Can you give me some? I've had four hours. I love a sleep. This is what I mean by it's funny, not funny. Now, the only reason I'm laughing and it's not funny, So we crabbed, walked off to the side, back onto the road, like looking where we were going, sat down somewhere and I studied my foot for any, like even one droplet of blood to know that there was something that pierced it. And my foot was very dirty because I had been grounding. So I was trying to wash it and see.

Anyway, I did not see one bit of blood, which makes me think, cool, if it was that, it's like scratched the surface. It hasn't penetrated. It hasn't. But there was that moment there where I thought, this is it. I really hope this isn't one of those moments where in six months' time we put the little do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, we flash back to this moment and we're like, Brittany now has hepatitis C. Brittany's no longer with us.

That was the moment. Yeah, this was the moment her life changed. Anyway, what a wild ride my weekend has been. Guys, I was going to talk about shellac nail polish, but, like, I'm glad we covered that first. Last week, you guys, if you listened to the episode, you might remember that we were speaking about The Golden Bachelor, specifically Jeanette who was the woman who came second dumped at the altar in South Africa I feel

you Jeanette there is a community of us okay so she was left Bear said he didn't want to be with her and then there was loads of articles that came out the next day saying that she was really angry because she wasn't upset she wasn't angry she wasn't like she didn't yell at him she was just very to the point very matter of fact she wasn't soft and frou-frou about it she didn't tell him how devastated she was. She just kind of told him to stop talking. And she said to not disrespect Sunny, which is the woman that he chose. And she walked off. I would have said defiant. News.com said angry. And I disagree. Of course they did. But I think it's unusual because, I mean, I want to say that the response was she didn't have a normal response,

whatever normal means. But I would say that I didn't have a normal response either. I would say I'm a bit of a thought leader here because this was a real pioneer this I'm a pioneer this was six seven years ago but I feel like I did the same if anyone hasn't seen me get dumped and you want to go and watch it but but I had the same thought where I thought just stop talking I didn't say a word he said do you want to have it do you want to talk about it you have any questions I said nope walked away never looked back and I was dead inside I had no rage I wasn't upset I mean I was upset, but I was just nothing. I just thought, cool, you've made your choice. There is nothing left for me here. I'll exit the building. Well, this is the thing, right? And we kind of touched

on it in the episode that we did last week. So if you haven't listened, go back, listen to Wednesday's episode. But it was talking about how when you're number two and you're in your 20s or even your early 30s, like the seasons that we were on, it's kind of recommended to you that if you're going to be dumped at the altar, that you should take that with grace and kindness, right? And and behave in a way that is essentially ladylike and Jeanette went against that and it got us talking a little bit more around how your views and your tolerance changes as you age particularly as a woman now we wanted to unpack this fantastic sub stack which is very much circling this idea and it's called the great unfuckening this is the social reckoning that

I think we are all headed for as women I don't think it could have been worded any better than this. So the article is called Aging Out of Fucks, The Neuroscience of Why You Suddenly Can't Pretend Anymore, Your Brain's Middle Finger to People-Pleasing. It's written by a woman named Ellen Schur. The sub stack opens with this. You're in a meeting. Someone says something objectively wrong. And instead of doing your usual dance, the soft correction, the diplomatic phrasing, the careful preservation of everyone's feelings, you just say it. That's not accurate. No cushioning, no apology, no emotional labor to make your truth more palatable. And everyone looks at you like you've grown a second head. Welcome to what I call the great unfuckening,

that point in midlife when your capacity to pretend and perform and please others starts shortening out like an electrical system that's finally had enough. You might think that you're becoming difficult, impatient, one of those bitter old women you were warned about, but here's what's actually happening. Your brain is restructuring itself and thank God for that. Now it goes on to talk about how this is not bitterness, but it's biology. The brain stops supporting the emotional labor and the social smoothing that women have been conditioned to perform since childhood. Yes. It's an accumulation of a lifetime of being told who you need to be to be a desirable woman or a pleasant woman, how you need to read the room, how you need to be a bit of a sycophant,

how you need to be soft and laugh at people's jokes and be a people pleaser. And that's how you get far as a woman. But it's interesting because you spend your whole life doing that. So everybody thinks that that's who you are, how you should be. The second that you have no as a full sentence, or I don't want to do that with no buts and no becauses, just leaving it like that, you instantly become a difficult woman. When you were younger, you're intelligent enough to know that. We know how it is and we know how you are perceived if you are a difficult woman. You might not be getting the jobs that you want to get. Now, we're not saying that this is fair or accurate, but we all know why we do it. Then you come to an age that we're going to get into

where there is science behind it there is biology behind it but you also get to the age where you're more confident and fortunately you also have the life experience to be in a position to not give a fuck anymore see it's interesting that you say we're all aware because i would i would dare say that when i was in my 20s i wasn't aware and i talk about it from a relationship sense i stayed in relationships as we all know it has like the backbone of this podcast where we came from where you put up with behavior because you're conditioned to think that maybe potentially you're not going to like, there's nothing better else out there. The reason why I found this interesting isn't because it's so much the social behavior of just getting to a point in life where

you're like, actually, I'm done giving fucks. And now I'm older. I don't give a fuck anymore. So no fucks to give. I think it's too simple. And for a long time, we have blamed things like perimenopause and menopause, these real hormonal shifts that we go through as women as being the reason that we change and that change being a negative thing that change being like well you're no longer the person that you were in your 30s and it's because you went through menopause the reason why we want to talk about this is because actually there seems to be this new ideology that's surrounding it and this real social shift in the way that we're viewing it and instead of it being seen as a negative like oh well that relationship broke down because of

your menopause it's actually being seen of the reason why that relationship broke down is because you no longer have the same hormones in your body that made you the people pleasing person that you needed to be in your twenties or your early thirties. And now you're coming into this new phase of life where you have less estrogen, which is the thing that makes you want to be more agreeable. It makes you want to be more loving. It makes you want to create a home and carry all that mental load. And you've gotten to a point in life where you're like, actually, why the fuck am I doing this? And it no longer aligns with an authentic version of yourself. And so I think that that's what the great unfuckening is.

I think it's women realizing that, yes, they've changed, but they're not mad about it and they shouldn't be carrying the guilt for that shame, which we've been told for so long is our burden to carry. But I think there's some, I mean, I would argue that it's a bit of A and a bit of B. Of course, we know the hormonal changes and we're going to get into that. I know Keisha's going to talk about that a little bit, like what is actually happening within your brain when you go through something like menopause and perimenopause. But I would argue that we are in a society at the moment where the unfuckening is happening

a little bit earlier as well, pre pre-menopause and pre-menopause. And I say that because I do think it all comes back to the awareness we have and the accessibility to things like social media, because that's where the conversations are happening. That is where we get to learn how we can value ourself, that we actually don't need to perform a certain way. And we never used to have access to that, but also you fall into a category where you've lived a little bit. and once you have experiences and situations to compare something to all of a sudden you realize what is worth your time energy and what you should and shouldn't be caring about it's not about not caring at all about anything but it's about realizing what is worth you caring about and

what you're going to let penetrate who you are now and I do think the thing that links up with life experiences is then perspective this episode is not out yet but we recently spoke with Elizabeth Gilbert again. And you might remember we spoke to her last year. She is the author of Eat, Pray, Love. And she speaks a lot about her relationship to her ex who passed away and she nursed her to her death, Raya. And it was just a reminder of that again, when we recorded this episode recently, because she speaks about always being a people pleaser her whole life. And now that she has this life experience, her feelings of, I don't give a fuck anymore because it is not worth it. and I know that the time I have on this earth, I want to use with things that bring me joy and

things that fulfill my friends and things that make me happy. Yeah. And I think that it's, I mean, it's too easy to say it's all hormones or it's not hormones, but the thing is absolutely life experience is going to get you to a destination. Our, every decision that we make in life gets us to a place where it's the culmination of, but also I think we would be foolish to not look at how our hormones affect the way that we feel and the impact it has because for so long it has been perimenopause or menopause that has been at fault in the same way that when a woman gets angry or like we get angry people like is it your period because we've blamed it on hormones and you're like yeah it probably is my period no but it's the same that it's like okay so you've had a

relationship breakdown or things are going wrong or maybe there is rage or there is feelings of like resentment or disinterest or maybe you're more agitated or angry about something and this is specifically for anyone who listens who might be at that point of going through perimenopause but the reason why I think it's fascinating is because I think as women who are in their 30s it's something that we should all at least be conscious of and the thing is is maybe it's not the fault of maybe it was like an a wake-up call when you've had this plummet of estrogen it's made you realize the things that you were doing to be the peacekeeper in your relationship it's kind of like all these things align at the same time. One of the stats I found really interesting when I was

looking into this is that 69% of divorces are initiated by women who are over the age of 40. So, and like that in itself, 70% of divorces are initiated by women. And it's not because they're just waking up one day and going, I don't love my husband anymore. It is the culmination of getting to a point in life where they're like, I am fucking done. I am done of the mental load. I'm done of being the only one person who like manages this house. And there's so much research that's done into the different types of emotional labor that women carry. And I know it's a generalization, but it is very real. And it is something that is experienced in a lot of relationships, not all, but a lot of relationships. It's interesting you're talking about this type

of emotional labor laws. I actually learned about a type of emotional labor that I'd never heard of before this week, and it's called self-suppression labor. It's about monitoring tone needs and reactions so that we don't trigger conflict or rejection and the other side of this like we're kind of talking about the social side of this the other side that I'm becoming increasingly aware of and there is actually being more research conducted into is more like the neurobiological side of these things and something I've really struggled with for a long time is the minimization of how impactful things like hormones or neurotransmitters can be like our hormones have been dismissed as like, she's just hormonal. Oh, look, you know, like we said, you're on your period. You're just

going through menopause. She's having all those hormonal changes. And I have a background in neuroscience and neurobiology. It is absolutely wild to me that people underplay the impact that those hormones can have. And the best case for like showing just how much of a change these things can do is that when you take drugs, you alter artificially the amounts of neurotransmitters and hormones in your brain, and you think about the difference in the behaviour that you would expect from someone who was or wasn't on drugs, we don't dismiss that change. We don't go like, oh, it's all, you know, they're being ridiculous.

We go, of course they're acting differently. They're on drugs. Well, yeah, as I say, we do say they're being ridiculous, but we know why. Yeah, yeah. Because we can see it and pinpoint it. Yeah, so hormonal recalibration that happens around this perimenopause to menopause phase, it's all about your estrogen levels dropping

And alongside that tends to be this lack of suppression of emotional responses. So estrogen kind of works in the brain as like a softening thing. It will soften the amount of conflict that you might get into. So we de-escalate. A lot of those changes mean that if your estrogen is declining and it declines pretty rapidly when you hit that phase, you lose that softness. You lose that care of, oh, I just need to de-escalate again. Is the juice worth the squeeze here?

And I think it does give you that little bit more of an abrasive attitude, but not because you're causing the conflict, because you're actually stopping the suppression of it, of how you've done it in the past. And you guys remember, I've spoken about it a few times over the years when we talk about egg freezing and embryos and stuff like that. I was on contraception for 17 years, okay, into my early thirties. And I always spoke about the fact that I thought I was a sociopath and I sort of say that jokingly but I say it in a way that nothing really bothered me I didn't feel much I wasn't didn't overly get bothered by things I didn't get jealous I didn't get upset my partner could have enraged me and I would have been like cool whatever oh you you've

been with multiple people at the same time guess I'll leave you know probably my reaction on The Bachelor was was that I just always felt dead inside you had lowered emotional reactions and And then the second I went off that contraception, off the pill, and I had all my hormones flood back to their natural state, I realized I had no idea. Here are the big feelings. Here are the feelings. Oh, my God, there's a dog outside my window.

I better cry. I didn't understand the impact hormones had, and I'm a woman that has studied it. You still don't get it. And that was the moment I was like, far out. Hormones play such a huge role. And there's just so many people that don't understand it. I also don't want, I don't want to minimize someone's experience because there are going

to be people who are either going through these hormonal shifts and have very big reactions. And those reactions probably don't feel parallel to what's happening. Like we know that there can be instances where hormones can make you act in a way that makes you feel fucking crazy. And you look back on that and you're like, oh no, oh no, that's right. I was getting my period and I just had rage and I actually do love my husband. Like those things are real. But I think the thing that we're talking about is that guilt that you carry as a woman,

when you do react to something. Because often, often I think you look at it and it's like objectively the behavior or whatever it is that you've been putting up with is shit. But because you don't normally react to it, the reaction feels severe. And then it's so easy to blame it on hormones. And I think, you know, especially for women who are going through menopause or perimenopause, if you are feeling rage, if you are feeling an anger or a frustration towards things that usually slip right under the radar, you don't really care about, I would dare ask you to really examine, is it because it's unwarranted or is it because for a long time you're putting up with something that you really shouldn't be putting up with? And this is actually validated

by science. So we were talking about hormones, but the other thing that hormones and every chemical in our body can do is either turn genes on or turn genes off. And this happens in a process called synaptic plasticity or neuroplasticity in the brain. It happens at every life stage for every person, but there is a particular period where they're looking into, well, how much is this happening more it's called synaptic pruning and it kind of I'm sure you guys in terms of synaptic plasticity basically it's the strengthening or weakening of certain networks of neurons in your brain and it's kind of that phrase of like if you don't use it you'll lose it so the more you use those particular pathways the stronger they will become and the opposite applies so this

synaptic pruning if you think about like the branches of a tree and you're cutting back the ones that you don't really need that are kind of dying that's exactly what they're showing happens in the brain. And they've actually found that these people pleasing circuits, particularly in the prefrontal cortex, which is the part of your brain that's just behind your forehead, that area of your brain is responsible for things like emotional regulation, executive function. Yeah, fear. So executive function. So that's, you know, they're kind of linking this to why you can get that fog, the perimenopause, menopausal fog. It may actually have to do with the fact that your neural circuits in those particular areas of your brain are literally changing and so i like for me

learning about the science behind these things it does the opposite of dismissing it it makes me go this is so incredibly real you actually have very limited control over your behavior no the science completely validates the change yeah that's the way i see it anyway there are other things that happen you know biologically but those two things the estrogen changes and the synaptic changes for me make me go oh this actually makes so much sense why the divorce rate for women over 40 is 69% of them initiating the divorce because these changes going alongside you know the state of life that they're in where they're just like do you know what I've probably got a good 40 years left I'm not going to do this suppression of the emotional labor anymore I'm fucking done like I've

had enough of people pleasing and doing everything to hold this entire household together I'm out like I've had enough what happens when a system that is completely reliant on your complicity falls apart like what happens relationships break down work might become challenging like things change and things alter when people say like oh you've changed you're like yeah I fucking did but I think it's important to examine like what are the fallouts from it so like what happens when a woman stops performing emotional labor systems and relationships that depend on it will break she's labeled difficult changed or not a team player anymore and traits that were celebrated in men often become criticized in women i think the big one about this that we've kind of been

circling is the fact that relationships that depend on it break so if your entire relationship that you have built depends on you being the one who carries all the emotional and mental load of the family of everything else then when you decide to stop doing that anymore and it requires the other partner to step up to it, often it doesn't happen because they have benefited from so long for you doing all and carrying all of it. And it takes someone who's very emotionally aware and intelligent to realize maybe this change is permanent and that actually in order to maintain and save the marriage that I'm in, I'm going to have to really step up to the plate and do a lot of the things that for the last decade were being done for me. It's also hyper-dependent on how your

partner reacts to that change in the situation. Are they going to go along the ride with you? Are they going to want to understand the science and the hormones behind why you're doing it and see you through it? Or are they going to use it as a manipulation tactic? Like you've changed as in manipulate you to go back and keep suppressing. And when we were doing the research for this, I actually sent this article, the eight different types of emotional labor that women experience. I sent that to Ben because we always talk about what we're talking about in the podcast, Ben and I, but I didn't preface it with, this is what we're talking about. I just sent it to him, got distracted and I didn't write anything else about like, Hey, this is what we're unpacking

this week. Then when I spoke to him later that night, he had written down like a whole list of things that he needs to do and prepare for Christmas coming up. Cause I'm going over there and everything that needs to be done in the house for me to be able to record over there. And I was like, wow, babe, I was like, there's someone like him, right? Trying to take admin off me. And I said, how come you've done this list? There's someone like you. He said, well, you sent me that article. And I thought, I laughed and I said, oh, that's cause what we're talking about this week. But then I had this moment where I thought that is the exact reaction that you want from a partner is to be like, oh, she needs something taken off her load and she's done it.

And that's why I think that's the difference. I think when you get to that situation that women get to when everything's changing in their life, the hormones and the menopause, and they decide they don't want to do it anymore. I think that is the difference is having a kind of supportive partner that wants to go along that ride with you and help you as opposed to trying to manipulate you back. It really is the key of like what determines whether a long-term relationship survives or not like no one's getting married in their 20s and staying in the same relationship for 50 years those two people are going to change over and over and over again and it's purposefully choosing to cohabitate and live with and you know evolve with that person and I think we've spoken

about the things that you're going to lose you know you're going to lose your ability to suppress these conflict situations you're going to lose your ability to people please but I think the other side of that coin is what I hear from so many women who have gone through this process where they're like, I feel like I am so much more authentic. Every one of my relationships feels real. I feel like I can tell the truth more. I feel like I don't need to pretend. I don't need to mask. This is something that neurodiverse people will be all too familiar with. When you are able to be around people that you don't have to mask around, there is a sense of relief that is undescribable. It is just such a much more enjoyable experience where you feel so free and

you can feel energized from social situations where you used to feel completely drained from them. You know, that clarity that people talk about getting in this period of their life where they have a more profound sense of purpose. Elizabeth Gilbert was talking about this, of how much her friendships have deepened. Their intimacy has grown so much because she's able to just be completely authentic and truthful with them. And that was something that it was so nice for me to hear because obviously I'm not in this phase yet. I'm 32, but I'm kind of looking at these things. And we've described this perimenopausal menopausal phase for so long as something that's really, really negative. And I hate that because the other side of it actually

seems really liberating. But you know, Keisha, you say you're 32. A lot of people start experiencing the onset of these hormone shifts for perimenopause when they're 35. Like it's not something that is like outrageously far away. I'm not saying that you're going into menopause, but for a lot of people, I mean, whether you're in your twenties or you're in your thirties and you're listening to this this is information that everyone I know who is going through this now like the people I love who are experiencing these changes it's like they wish they knew about it and then they've woken up to this aha moment as to like why the fuck is everything crazy and that's what I mean by this social rewiring about how we look at this and this idea of the

great unfucking I really wanted to read this quote which describes exactly what we've been saying from the sub stack it says this this is the hard thing to talk about but necessary some relationships won't survive your refusal to keep pretending friendships built on shared complaining but not actual intimacy work relationships that relied on you doing the emotional labor others weren't doing family dynamics where you played mediator peacemaker or emotional manager when you stop playing these roles one of two things happen the relationship evolves into something more authentic or it dissolves because it was never based on authentic connections in the first place. Both outcomes are information. Losing relationships because

you stop performing isn't actually loss. It is clarity about what was never really there. And I think that that is incredibly powerful for people who feel as though they are in this phase of life and they are failing at their relationships. All right, it is time for Suck and Sweet, our highlight and lowlight of the week. Brittany, what is your suck? Don't have HIV. Great. That we know of. Or Hep C. So my suck was, I guess it was two weeks ago that we spoke about it, that I was on the cusp of am I or aren't I going to Italy to see Ben last week? And I said it was dependent on his team, his new management. Are they still going to get their days off?

Because it was in our schedule for me to go and spend 10 days with Ben. And I waited and waited and waited. And then I wasn't going to Italy. Then we were going to meet in Dubai for a couple of days. And then we sort of, the way our relationship works for his schedule is you have to wait till a couple of days before and then they get told. And so two days before I was umming and ahhing if I'm meeting him in Dubai for a couple of days.

And anyway, the whole thing fell in the bin and I didn't get to go and see him. So that's my suck was that I was just waiting. It was, it was awkward because I was excited to see him, but I was hyper aware that I might not go. And then anyway, I didn't end up getting to go. All that peacocking for nothing. That butthole laser. I appreciated it.

though. So thanks for sharing it with me. We all appreciate your butthole, Brittany. Well, he's going to get a bloody good Christmas because he's got another round coming. I've got one more booked in. So yeah, that was my suck, but I am seeing him for Christmas, so it's fine. It's not long away. And my sweet was that I didn't get a needle stick injury and I did get to go and spend that time instead of Ben with Sherry, Jay and baby Maya. So you had like your Hockley family Christmas. I had. Yeah. Well, true. That as well. Yeah, I mean, sorry to the rest of the Hockley family. You guys mean nothing.

So I got to spend the holiday with Ben, was replaced with Jay, Sherry, and Maya, which was nice, just family stuff. And then we did have the Hockley family Christmas. There was about 40 of us that get all the cousins. It's a big family. All my cousins have kids as well. It was really, really wholesome. Like we do the piñata, we do Secret Santa,

which Laura doesn't know how to say Kris Kringle, but we'll call it Secret Santa. But it was really, really cute. And it was the only time in like the last 10 years that every single family member has been there. Every year there's someone that can't make it. It's usually you too. You're usually obviously in bed.

Yeah. It is always me. I am the family member. So when I say, yeah, someone's always away. No, there's always a someone that can't quite make it because we're all spread out from like North Australia, down South, Sydney, Port, whatever. So that was my sweet. All right.

Well, my sweet is that this child slept through this entire record. No, it's not really. It was the rum I slipped up. What a fucking, like, absolute rock star this kid is. Okay, so my suck for the week is, actually, this has been a really good week, like a mint week. Black Friday. It's Black Friday.

Everybody, I fucked my husband and it's Black Friday. It's been a good week. No, so suck for the week is, actually, it did work out to be sweet. Do you know how I was talking about Ellie being sick and then we had to get Lola tested because we thought she had C. diff? Turns out she just had a good case of the rotavirus. Love that for her. Yeah, she just had the runs, so she's fine.

No one has C-diff. So it was a suck because, I mean, she had gastro. But it could be worse. Turned out to be sweet. And my sweet for the week is it is Black Friday for Tony May, and I'm not just slipping that in there so that you will all go and buy. I am slipping it in there up to 60% off. Buy now.

Buy, buy, buy. Get it, get it, get it. We're all walking Bilbo. I don't shop for you on Black Friday. I just wait for you to give it to me for free. If you guys wait long enough. I'm like, she'll be back. No, it is Black Friday, but the reason why it is my suite.

So we have been working so, it's crazy how Black Friday has become such like a core part of retail businesses now. Like honestly, you work all year for this one week and I know it is capitalism and fucking everything else. I get it. But it's crazy. It's changed how people shop. Back in the day, it used to be Boxing Day sales.

People would go to the shopping centers and line up. It was the best and worst day because you hated it, but you needed that discount. Well, I used to have a shop in Westfield. That's how I started. So I used to have a shop in Westfield in the city. People would camp out with their tents so that they were the very first people through the doors at 6am to be there for the Boxing Day sales. And it was carnage.

Like people were fighting over stuff. It was the scenes that you would see in movies. That's what used to exist. Because of online shopping, because of Black Friday, that doesn't exist anymore. People don't do the Boxing Day sales in the same capacity. Everything is Black Friday. And so from a Tony May perspective, we have put every single dollar of profit that the company has made this past year back into building the business. So opening new stores, doing a new website, buying stock, hiring new staff, opening a new office space.

Like it has been this real year of just like fucking grow and work and hustle. And all of that kind of came into fruition on, we did this one, the first day of our Black Friday sales, we did 7,300 orders. Which is just like, I was honestly in the first hour because we did this special like hour of power. We did 4,500 orders and I sat at my desk and I cried like a child. I was just like a kind of, and I'm not even in perimenopause yet. I don't think so. I just couldn't believe it.

I just felt amazing. Yeah. It was like one of those moments where I was like, I've worked on this business for 16 years and it just felt as though we'd kind of like cracked a new ceiling like we've made it to being like not so small business anymore you should be so proud because it's a big achievement and I don't know if you heard the same thing then Keisha I was hearing lunches on Laura is that what you got from that? It's on Tony May we're at our Christmas party are you hearing pay rise? are you hearing boat party? get the helicopter

are you hearing Ibiza? Britt and I have been saying this a lot we've been talking about on the podcast a lot so pardon me for the repetition but you know we were talking about how can you believe you know if you had a would have told little brit yeah she'd interview a spice girl like imagine telling little brit in port macquarie kim kardashian well i sent you the same message yesterday laura because like you used to work at the bondi markets on your weekends because you had a full-time job no no of course there's nothing wrong with that what i mean is that your grandparents used to sit there in their chairs because they would drive you up from Wollongong to do your market stall and you named the business after them and I just imagined like

fuck imagine I don't know if you're spiritual if you believe in you know a particular religion if they are looking at you go I get teary thinking about it if they're looking at you going like your nan knows because you ate her ashes that was papa oh sorry papa so you consumed him he was there with you I accidentally ate papa you know Keish even on that like my grandparents were such fucking amazing people they didn't drive me up from Wollongong I lived in Sydney oh sorry they caught the train up I'll let you tell the story no but they but they did they I would be with you you know I would like pack my Hyundai gets I would set up every Sunday and they would get on the train with fold-out chairs they would take their little fold-out chairs they'd get on the train they'd go

all the way to central then they'd get the bus from central over to Bondi markets and they would get there and they'd set up their little deck chairs and they'd sit there so that I had someone if I needed to go and have a toilet break. They would be there all day and they would just sit at the store behind me. Laura, who would catch a bus for you now? No one. I fucking would. I actually do.

You catch a bus to get paid. Yeah, exactly. If I had to save your life, I'd get a bus. If I wasn't getting paid. Yeah, they'd come and they'd sit there and it was so that I could go and have a lunch break and a toilet break. It was crazy. And, you know, oh, fuck, man, it was so many years of doing that.

and there's been so many people that have contributed to it along the way and my sister coming on board and being like my business partner and i'm talking about this like we're closing the business it's really it's just the black friday so you have to stop and smell the roses and recognize your achievements hashtag gratitude hashtag grounding you never do though you always you always just go on to the next thing we do the same thing with life on cart like there's been so many pinch me moments of you know uh like just even some of the things that we've done with you guys, like doing the live shows and meeting you all and like the size and the scale of those things. And you think to yourself, oh, I'm going to really appreciate this. And then the next

week you're like, what else are we going to do? And you just get back into the hustle. But yeah, yesterday was just really one of those moments where I was like, wow, we are not a tiny little business anymore. We are, we are a proper legitimate business with the staff. I mean, you've been that for a long time, but I'm glad you've realized it now. Thanks to Black Friday. Thank you. Everyone, Black Friday is still until next Monday, the end. And you guys, you know the drill. Hang on, before, please go to YouTube. Yes, we have.

I said today we had 13 subscribers and Ness got angry at me. She was like, we have 12,000 now. And I was like, I'm sorry. Yeah, no, we have 13 and 14,000 now. We're killing it. We're killing it on YouTube. But we do have a goal, guys. The current goal is 20,000 subscribers.

And then we're going to do a sick giveaway. But you have to be a subscriber. I do want to say YouTube is humbling, though, because there's been for a while in the podcasting space, we've been like, yeah, million downloads, kicking goals, like social media killing it and then we were like

let's take over YouTube and then we're like hello all about YouTube we are not like bam bam it's a gradual climb sorry I love every one of you

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