Life Uncut - The 'Hot Assassin'. Pretty Privilege and the Robin Hood Effect

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

Hey Lifers! Laura has given herself an ick and Britt has a new friendship test that has crossed the line even for Keeshia. There are just some things that friends draw the line at and that point has been established.It was Britt’s hens party!! We had the best day and early night! We have a conversation about sober curiosity. Have you noticed a shift in alcohol in your friendship groups? How do you feel about your partner’s phone use before bedtime? Apparently it could be ruining your relationship. So is it a bit of a harmless decompression time or should we really be trying to be more present?  Could ‘the Robin Hood’ effect excuse Luigi Mangione of murdering United Health CEO Brian Thompson? The trial is happening right now and there has been a documentary released called ‘Who Is Luigi Mangione?’ We unpack the rather strange public and celebrity response to this case and some studies that explain just how far attractiveness bias and the halo effect extends. We also speak about the ethical ambiguity at the heart of the Robin Hood effect: the belief that wrongdoing is excusable—or even noble—if the victim is morally corrupt.  You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. And Laura just said, guys, I've got something to start with. Trust me on it. Trust me. I can't wait to hear this one. It's too much information. I'm going to start a low and then end on a high. No. You know how sometimes you talk about how you're really proud of your former self? like you know you'll say I'm so proud of like past Laura for doing this I've never said that about myself ever you don't talk to yourself like that I'm proud of you Brittany no I don't

anytime I organize anything I'm in the future I'm like oh I'm so proud of past me for doing that it made my life easier I'm not proud of myself internally which weird okay hang on okay we're taking a segue if I do something that like helps my future self and makes my life easier in the future like something that was like didn't really take a lot of time and effort but you always like put it off, put it off, put it off. And then finally, when you do it, it's like annoying because you've left it too late. For example, parking fines. If I actually pay it on time, I don't have to then overpay it, but I usually forget. And then my future self is mad at my former self because I'm now paying like a penalty fee. This is not, I mean, I wish that this was a

happy story. I wish I could say like, I'm so proud of my yesterday self for what my today self is experiencing, but it's the opposite because yesterday self ate a sandwich that has onions on it. And I hate onions. And you want to know what I'm experiencing right now? All I can smell is onions in my microphone and that's my day. Are you sure it's in your microphone and not coming out of your breath? No, it's not. It's the morning. I've had nothing except cleaned, beautifully sparkly teeth today.

No, it is my microphone smells like yesterday's onions. I hate raw onion. And I also have like really heightened, really heightened sense of smell. Smell. That's so smelly. I love to smell. I have a really heightened sense of smell because I'm pregnant so now all I can smell is yesterday's onions.

I hate myself. my smell has gone down the gurgler lucky because I can't smell anything which means I can't smell myself which is bad but since I got COVID I got really bad COVID like went to hospital with it and I cannot smell since then like it takes a lot for me to be able to smell it no I back you on this I've opened your fridge before and been like Brittany there are so many things there's yeah there's got to be at least three things in this fridge that are off I don't know how you haven't noticed yeah Keisha and I were standing next to each other she's like there is something off in this fridge and my head was in it. And I was like, I promise you, I smell nothing. I need her to come

into a sweep of my house once a week. With that in mind, can we change microphones then? Because I'll have a better experience if that's the case. No, because now there's still something that gives me the ick knowing your whole microphone is hung in. This morning, speaking of ick, I'm sorry, this is probably too much information, but I had this shower thought. Well, this wasn't my best thinking, but I was led down a path where I almost thought I didn't have a choice. And I realized that there is a new friend test. Like, you know, it's like, who do you call when you're in trouble? Who would that person be? And now this has happened. This has happened on Sex and the City, but I have my period at the moment. You guys know I use a menstrual cup and I don't know what it is,

but I have the heaviest period I've ever had. I don't know if it's a stress thing. My mouth is full of ulcers from stress. I don't know what's happening to my body, but it was insane. Anyway, this has never happened in all the time I have used my period cup I could not get it out I could not get it out it was so far my body had sucked it so far up I was in every position you could imagine on all fours one leg up on the ground on my back bearing down to try and push it out to birth your period cup and I couldn't get it I was trying to swivel it I was trying to move my body to like move it on the inside like you're trying to turn a baby I couldn't breathe I was puffing so hard. And I was like, what am I going to do? And I was like, I'm going to have to call

Keisha. Can I just say out of the both of us? I know where you'd call me. I think even we have reached the line. No, you have to. I would drive you to hospital before I would do it myself. No, I even thought I had gloves under the sink. I was like, I've got gloves. I could get her to put the gloves on. I thought you'd do it. She doesn't make sense. She's got the smallest fingers out everyone in the room that's what you need to reach it small hand wait hands I would be trying to use a pair of tweezers or something no I think it's a it's a finger job it's a finger job if you need to finger your boss Keisha that might really really overstep the HR in this place but if there's a job that's got to be done Keisha will do it so Keisha if we could stop down now and you

dream in the bathroom. But I did think, I wonder if she would do it. If it was life or death. Well, it could be. Obviously that would probably, and I am good in a crisis. Sadly, I've been in a couple, like few, but I've noticed that I'm quite good in those crises. I'm very logical and very pragmatic and I don't get too emotional in them, but that one might. Do you know why? Because it's not happening in the moment I think I'd be able to do that for a stranger more than what I'd be able to do because I'd have to look at you later you've seen me naked all the time I've had to yeah not by choice I've been in the room for I mean as I say for three births that's not true I've been in the room for more than that since I was in the room for my own but I reckon I'd be

fine in that crisis okay so maybe I got it wrong maybe like I'm offended I wasn't at the top of the list but that's okay you only won't because I thought you'd be too busy like Keisha was more available. I was packing school lunches so it would have been a tricky call. I'm just picturing Laura being like, I've got to head out. Did you get it out though? Eventually I did, but it was like, I don't know how I got it out. Dire straits. It was really dire

straits, but I'm actually, I don't know, I would have done it for you, Keish, so I'm a bit put off. I really expected that conversation to go differently. I thought you'd be like, yeah, I'd do it for you. I mean, it might be surprising to everyone, but we actually have big things to talk about today since we really started off where we did. It was Brittany's hen's party on the weekend!

I had so much fun. I had so much fun. And my word. Did anyone pray for that weather? Because it was like Baltic the day before pouring down with rain. It was a summer day on the Saturday and then the Sunday back to freezing cold winter. The skies opened up. The tarot reader that I got the night before did tell me it was raining, storming.

And she did say, you have a lot of luck around you. And then we woke up to clear skies. So I reckon she put that on me, the tarot reader. She did give me some stones as well that said, well, like, good luck stones. So I reckon there was a lot in it. No, we had the hens. It was amazing. It was everything that I wanted because I, I mean, you guys, this shouldn't come as a

shock. I have said on the podcast before, I'm not a huge partier. I don't want to go out shotting. I don't want to party to 5am. Like that's my worst nightmare. But you do want to get in a stretch limo sober at 8pm at night. But a stretch limo at night. With lights down the ceiling and Taylor Swift absolutely blaring.

Yeah, no. So we had the most perfect day. all I wanted was like to send it in the day for a couple of hours and then like be home having tea at nine and we were home having tea at nine but I I mean I'm 37 where all my friends are about the same age like give or take a couple of years some are a bit older some are a bit younger but I think it just comes with age half of them are pregnant or breastfeeding and the other half are like oh I can't send it like I used to like people just I don't have a big drinking circle everyone's quite like healthy and everyone just wants to sip cocktails for a couple of hours and

then call it a day and it was actually the most tame semi-sober hens that I think I've ever been to yeah I think that there's this real misconception I mean I know that we've joked about it we didn't have a stripper that's one thing guys I know you've been sitting on this edge of your seat for an update Will Channing Tanen was busy but I think that there is a misconception that in order to have like a good hens party or a send-off or a box or whatever that everyone ends up getting absolutely turnt right and I think that that was my perception in my 20s as well it certainly wasn't my experience of my hens like we were all back at the Airbnb drinking tea as well at like nine o'clock at night which sounds in some ways lame kind of lame and I understand that but also I mean

it kind of well it leads us into a big conversation that we want to have around sober curious and the reason for that is is because so many people at your hens Brit actually don't drink like Mitch doesn't drink Keisha you don't drink I don't drink currently I don't drink Brit you're not a big drinker but I would say 50% of the people at that party were not drinkers or big drinkers by any means which is really just shows this interesting shift that's happening in friendship circles around how we approach alcohol and I know I've spoken about this in the past but I think I had like quite a looking back on it quite a problematic relationship with alcohol in my 20s but I didn't realize it was that at the time yeah but it also just goes to show that you can have

such an amazing time and alcohol doesn't need to be the highlight of a day for everyone to enjoy themselves. I have never my entire life been a big drinker. I didn't really drink from 18 to about 23, like sporadically. I had a couple of years in the middle where I sort of went hard when I was traveling, but I wasn't going hard because I actually don't even know why. I think it was actually a problematic time in my life that I felt pressured to be partying because I wasn't a partier. I don't know if that makes sense. And I was like, oh, I'm single. I'm only young once and it's a thing you do it's a thing that you do and all my friends were partiers but I've never really loved alcohol I love it to sip with a dinner I love it for a cocktail or two in

the sun very like sporadically but like I've had three drinks this year like I've never needed alcohol to have fun I used to be the person that would get kicked out of somewhere for being too drunk when I was the designated driver I was literally like I'm driving I'm so is that more like more offensive than just like your personality that's the problem I was like personality not your alcohol consumption is the problem because I'd be on the dance floor the whole night and I'd probably look like I was wild but I was always sober and so I quite like the fact that we had these great hens where like probably three quarters of the people were sober yeah I mean Keisha I love your take on it because I know that this is something when I met you you

absolutely were not sober I mean you were sober at the interview but then after that you were sober less than you were not but you had a real a real shift in like your approach to alcohol as well going from like being 29 to 30 and now where you're at like you're not drinking at all yeah my experience is I when I hear people have conversations about sober curiosity and that kind of thing I feel as though I have a bit of a different version to the majority and I don't mean to be like I'm so unique I mean mine kind of happened by accident and it was that I never felt like I had a bad relationship with alcohol because I didn't feel as though I was a problem when I was drunk I'm sure I was annoying but I was never the person doing things that I like hugely regretted

I mean I was probably a little more promiscuous than I would have been if I was sober but I'd never caused fights I wasn't the one who was like emotional or crying or I wasn't a problem you know and so we used to have a lot of fun on our weekends and like my group of friends kind of all were similar like no one was terrible when we were drunk and so we would go out we would drink we would come for kick-ons at my next door neighbor Will's house and like we had a heap of fun together and then when I was diagnosed with ADHD and I was eventually medicated this really weird thing happened and I just had almost like the evaporation of the desire to drink like I can't actually I can't pinpoint it other than finding out a lot more about ADHD and how the

medication works and I was like oh this actually makes a lot of sense my drinking was dopamine seeking it was me kind of thrill seeking having that lubrication not that I it's not that I feel like I need lubrication for social environments obviously like all of us are very confident people we can hold a conversation we wouldn't be podcasters if we weren't but I just found it was easier like I found that I didn't have as much thought about what I was talking about to the person and whether they were enjoying it and like a lot of the masking side of ADHD I felt like you know alcohol kind of softened that a lot but when I was medicated I was like oh I just don't I really feel like I need it and it's not like I'm going around being like my body's a temple I'm not

going to put you know anything in it that's potentially bad for I mean I take amphetamines every day you know it's not like I'm doing it for complete health reasons but my word I cannot even begin to explain the difference in what is described as like anxiety that I have not felt since not drinking you know I never thought that I had anxiety because I thought it was related to the behavior that you had when you were drunk and that you were embarrassed about it and you felt like I had to apologize for it mine was more like neurochemical I felt as though the weeks yeah the week to week sir after having big drinking events I would have these depression and anxiety lulls that were really really deep and I never connected it to alcohol until I wasn't drinking people

forget alcohol's a drug like people forget how bad it actually is because it is so accessible and legal we don't think of it to be detrimental to our bodies I don't know I think people do but I just think people are quite happy to kind of park that I mean there's so much research and so much conversation about how anxiety inducing it is the next day and how you feel blah blah blah but I think people just park that for the social experience and the elevated high that you get when you are really drunk out in a social environment you know I think becomes part of your routine I know for me like it was so part of my routine go out have a wine get a bit too excited have too many wines and I what I think colonics literally end up in the house wake up the next day with

even worse anxiety because I'm in the bed no but I mean from my experience and the reason why I find this really quite interesting is because like we've been doing this podcast for six years alcohol has come up as a conversation throughout the six years we've talked about mummy wine culture we've talked about people we've talked to people who have had addiction issues with alcohol we've talked about people who drink probably too much from a social perspective but I would say over the last six years my opinion has changed quite a bit and also so many people from my friendship group have become sober this is actually backed in research I was listening to a podcast a couple months ago and the stock prices of huge alcohol companies the biggest ones in the

world they were down by and I'm trying to remember this exactly so please don't take this as a quote it was about 13%, which is fascinating. But I think for myself, and I look back on my twenties and I didn't have the clarity of this at the time. And I know you say like, we're all really big personalities and we can hold a conversation and we're fine in social situations. I think I drank because I think it gave me an elevated sense of confidence. I think I felt as though I fitted into social environments, especially like at nighttime or if it was dinners or it was like in big groups, I felt like I fitted in and I was more fun to be around if I was drunk. Like, And I would never know or quite know my limit, especially with white wine.

That was my kryptonite. But I, you know, obviously since having kids, being pregnant really puts a spanner in the drinking works, but I'm not drinking at all at the moment. And with every child I've had and also with the longer duration that Matt and I have been together, because Matt doesn't drink, it's, well, he drinks very, very sporadically. That has had an impact on me as well. And I find that it's become less and less something that I rely on or less and less something that I need at all.

But you're absolutely a product of your environment. And this saying of like you are the product of the five people that you're around, it's so true. And even when I say I went through that phase of drinking, it was like when I was over living in Europe and everyone around me drank. That's what you did. And if you didn't do it, you didn't really get to do anything. Like if you didn't go out with them and party, that's just what they did. So you start doing that. And now the product of my environment is like 30 women on a boat that almost no one drinks.

And I think you end up finding your people. I also have never dated a drinker. Like everyone that I've dated, not by choice, happens to have not been a big drinker. That's interesting. Well, I mean, like Ben and Jordan were athletes or are athletes, so they would maybe drink in their off season, but that's 99% of the year. My first partner I was with for eight years didn't drink, didn't like it, didn't like alcohol.

So I don't drink. Like, so when you're living with someone and that person that is in your space doesn't, all of a sudden you don't want to drink on your own. So it's like you think how often you come home. If I had a partner that was having a wine with dinner every night, I probably would be inclined to. But when you're sitting down at dinner with your partner who just is having a Coke Zero or something,

you just sort of do what they do. You gravitate towards the same thing. But, Brit, even like, I mean, I don't know if you remember, but when we first started this podcast, you would come to my house. We'd always record a wine in my bedroom. Like you guys know if you're OG. And I would always crack a bottle of wine. Like almost every record I would have a glass of wine

to record the pod I mean maybe don't go back and listen to the first episodes or do and do a comparison but for me it was such a standard part of almost every evening I would have wine and Matt grew up in a household with an alcoholic and that's really impacted his approach to alcohol he doesn't have a problem with me having drinks because I don't over consume but in the same time it's like it's actually not as fun to do on your own you know when you realize that you're just cracking a bottle of wine to have glasses by yourself there kind of comes a point not for everyone but for me there was this real come to Jesus moment where I was like I actually don't need this and I don't feel great in the morning so why am I doing this but I would be so interested

to know from like you guys the lifers have you seen a shift in your friendship groups have you seen a shift in your own behavior are we in a little isolation bubble here because it's what our friends are doing and it's kind of like what has changed over the last six years of our life or is there something that's playing out around you as well? Yeah, and don't get me wrong, I do love a wine. I really enjoy a wine. Just once, sometimes. Nice Sangiovese.

It's an interesting social experiment that we inadvertently conducted on the weekend at my hen's party because out of, I think, 25 women, yes, there were some people that were pregnant so we'll take them out, but the people that sent it, the people that actually sent it and got loose were the mums. They were all the mums that were like, and I don't know what that means. I don't know if it means like. It's probably their first time that they've been able to have a bit of a weekend away

in a long time. I think it really, I mean, no judgment, but I think it definitely does show like mummy wine culture is rife. Like there is this feeling of like once you have stopped breastfeeding or when you get a night off, like there is this liberation feeling that I think a lot of mums definitely feel. And I would say like the most hungover I have ever been in my thirties was after I'd finished breastfeeding and then I drank for the first time.

and I think we went out of the podcast awards and I literally could not get out of bed the next day. I had to call. But you cancelled the interview. I cancelled an interview. I cancelled work. I had to call a babysitter to take care of my kids because I was so unwell.

I think it was just like this feeling of like wanting to grab onto my old self, wanting to grab onto something that made me feel like I wasn't a mum and I was the old version of me for a moment. I think it also leans into the fact that those nights, a few and far between, that you even have the option to go out. And I know my friends that did send it that were mums, there's not a lot of times that they actually get a weekend away. So they were like, it's now or

never. So let's just, let's just do it. But I do want to recommend anybody that is having a hens party. There is a company and a website that we use. I say we, planning a hens has got to be one of the worst jobs in the world. Like no one wants that responsibility. Nobody enjoys it. I don't care if you say you do, no one is enjoying planning somebody else's hens night for like 30 people. And so I found this company called My Ultimate Hens, which is like, have a look at it. It is a one-stop shop where there are so many different packages of things that you can do with accommodation, drinking, restaurants, bars, boats, tarot reading, like whatever. There's pre-made packages that are actually so well-priced.

You will never be able to plan a hens for the price that they put these packages together. You can also design your own packages, which is what I did. So my packages are on there. I sort of just like added different things together, but they just do everything for you. And so I sort of started to put this together with the company until Keisha saw in my diary that I had a... That you were planting your own hands. I was planting my own hands.

I was like, this is grim. She's like, what is this meeting in here saying Brit and my ultimate hands? And I was like, oh, I'm planting my hands. And she was like, what? So Keisha and Sherry and a few, I think maybe Shannon, but Keisha was a huge part, sort of took over and I took a step back. But I just can't recommend this company enough for just putting stuff together. and you just, it takes, I mean, Kisha, you ended up organizing with them, but it takes so much

stress out of what you've got to do. I've had to plan a hens before when I was living in a different city. And obviously like some people have really good planners. They're the person that if you go on holidays with them, they're the itinerary people, right? Yeah. They're the ones who are so happy because then they get a bit of control and they can relax because they know what they're doing. I'm literally the polar opposite of that person. So planning that kind of thing when I had to do it from a different city like I can't even I cannot explain the amount of stress that I felt and I also felt like I was never I wasn't even able to enjoy myself on the day because I was so worried about whether everything was going to go to plan and whether

anyone else was enjoying it or whatever and to compare that to using my ultimate hands was like chalk and cheese and you know what else about hens the person that plans it they always end up paying more like you always end up getting lumped with extra costs and it's just not fair for people like anyway it's not even my vibe of the week it's just a recommendation for anyone having a hen's party yeah yeah I had the best I actually I'm so glad that the day went exactly the way it did I wouldn't change a single thing I had so much fun it was so nice to be around the people that like you've been friends with since you were a kid and it was nice having conversations with them because you know and you've been really open on the podcast about the fact that you were one of

the later ones to find a partner and get married and there was a time where you were like I just Don't know if this is ever going to happen for me. And like just looking at you with this sun in the background on beautiful Sydney Harbour in this gorgeous dress looking so hot. I was like, it's happened for you, mate. It's happened. I'm not an overly emotional person and I wasn't expecting it. But when I walked in on the night time, I had about eight of my friends waiting the

night before because the hens hadn't started yet. And they sort of like all jumped out from their little hiding spots and they did a popper and I just started crying. And they're like, what's wrong? And I'm like, I don't know. I was like, I just, I felt very loved and I wasn't expecting to feel that over a hen's party, but like, yeah. I think that's like the best thing though.

And it's probably, it's the thing that I underestimated the most about getting married, but it was having all of my favorite people in the same room to be able to celebrate something that was so important to me. Like there's this real sense of community that comes around it. And like, you never ever get opportunities in life to have your favorite people all together and like hen's parties and weddings, sometimes big birthdays are literally the only times that that happens and it's really, really special.

Yeah, and I was worried I wasn't going to cry at the wedding but I think it's going to come. Oh, I think we all will. All right, well, something I want to get a read of the room on. What is your opinions on your partners using their phone before bedtime? And the reason why I say this is because there's an article going around talking about how detrimental it is to relationships over use of phones. Now, I think we all know like how disconnected you can feel with your partners when your

partners are sitting there scrolling on Instagram or TikTok or whatever. But I read this and I was like, oh, maybe I have some conflicted feelings or maybe I'm the problem. Probably both. Bit of a call to make. But genuinely, when you're with Ben, how often is he on his phone pre going to bed? Does he use his phone? Does it get put away?

Keish, same with you. How much time are your partners spending on their phones as a wind down before going to bed? Ben and I, I mean, it's hard. We'll be together for a couple of weeks at a time. And we're usually pretty good at not being on our phones because we try to value the time that we have. But that is not to say there are definitely times where we have to say to each other,

hey, let's just like actually focus on each other for a second. We've got like a week. Put that away. Yeah, we've got a week left. But it's interesting it even happens now in a way. Like this is my version of it as long distance. A couple of nights ago, this exact thing happened. I called Ben.

I have a sticky phone. So like I stick it into the shower. Like we walk around and just talk on the phone. When she says a sticky phone, she means the thing that you can stick onto a wall. that's their cover it's not one of those gels you know things you flick and they stick to the wall my phone is not sticky I wipe it clean it's a sticky cover I can put my phone anywhere so I put it into the shower with me we talk in the shower he comes out we whatever anyway so I was in the shower obviously naked he answers the phone we say hello blah blah and I can see he's not

looking at me he's like looking up something else he'll be on his iPad he'll answer his iPad and I'm like what are you doing he's like oh just there's a football match and I was like oh is it an important one he's like no and I was like well why the fuck are you not looking at me then I was like I'm naked in the shower what could be more important now there's something really really humbling when not only is it for wind down but you're completely nude in the shower during long distance your partner doesn't care bro that's what I said that was my point to him and I was like wow is this where we are but that just means it's like normal to him right we're always talking naked but I was like wow you're that distracted by something else playing and that's our equivalent

of like you can't even just give me 10 minutes of your attention because there's something I was like turn the tv off and let's talk we get such limited times of the day but that's my equivalent of the distraction. I feel really triggered reading this because I know that in my relationship, I'm 100% the guilty one of this. Like I spend way more time on my phone. Do you know what really annoys me though? When we'll be watching TV, like we'll have a show that we'll be watching together and often we'll be eating dinner and I'll be sometimes on my phone as well. I never ask to rewind. I never like, oh, what just happened? I missed that. But my boyfriend has a real issue with it he's like get off your phone I'm like no no this is free time yeah like I'm enjoying this

it's almost as though he thinks that because I'm on my phone I'm not like able to connect with the show as much or with him and I'm like no no I disagree with this I'm able to be on my phone and I know that in our relationship he would be on his phone so much less so this article is probably more true from his perspective and I'm the one who would need to make changes well the reason why I wanted to talk about this is mostly because I mean we've spoken before like the number one cause of relationship breakdown is cheating but the number one complaint in therapy from psychologists who sit with couples therapy every single day is phone use now I absolutely can see how people can get so distracted into their phones that they're not having connected conversations

with their partners but I also wonder like where is the fine line between using it as a wind down tool and that being time that is allocated and allowed for because I feel like I use my phone as a wind down. I feel like I get to a point in the day where I don't want to have any more conversations with my husband. I don't want to have any more conversations with my kids. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to watch the shitty free to air TV that Ellie's watching. I don't want to do anything. I just want to sit on the couch on my phone and scroll videos of goats. Like that's what I want to do. I feel that. And why is that something that should be seen as like a personal vindication? I think maybe it comes down to like allocated time,

But even that then feels really restrictive. It's like, well, here's your personal time that I'm not going to talk to you. I think that's what it does come down to. I think everyone is allowed to have their wind down. And a phone for a lot of people is a wind down. But if it starts to interrupt the quality of your relationship, I know Keisha and Toblerone and I know like their situation. The reason that that's an issue for Toblerone is for him, that is their time together.

Watching a TV show. Yeah. He is so busy. He likes to make sure they are watching a show at the same time. They can't go ahead and watch it without each other because that's the way that he spends time with Keisha when he's not working. They bond over it. So for him, that's when he's like, this is our chosen time.

Can you give me your attention? Even though he knows that she can do both, he doesn't feel like it, you know? And I think that is the difference is that maybe the allocated time for Keisha's phone wind down needs to be separate to the TV wind down. Yeah, I mean, I absolutely agree and I think it's kind of very justified. but there's actually this thing they talk about it a lot in ADHD like conversations but I think it actually applies to absolutely everyone I think that maybe we're just a little bit more susceptible to it it's this thing called revenge bedtime procrastination oh yeah oh I do that yeah

it's basically this kind of I guess maybe phenomenon or this idea I guess that I don't think it is specific to ADHD I don't either I think everyone who are overworked who are burnt out and feel like it's the only time of day that they have to claw back some time to this unproductive time yes but it's like you know you end up staying up so late scrolling on your phone when you could have just gone to bed early but there's some sort of sense of like this is my only me time so the actual definition says this term describes the intentional act of sacrificing sleep in order to engage in leisure activities like scrolling binge watching or other low effort activities that provide temporary enjoyment and i think it's just that we live in a world where

we're all so overstimulated and this is kind of that easy dopamine hit for me i kind of tend to this before bed as well and I convince myself that it relaxes me and calms me down but sometimes you know I think you can end up in these scroll holes or these kind of doom scrolling episodes where you don't realize but like an hour and 15 minutes is gone and then I freak out that I'm like oh my god I'm losing so much sleep I can only now get six hours and 40 minutes tonight because I've been doing this revenge bedtime procrastination but it feels nice it feels soothing my thing is I just say to Matt I'm going to bed but I'm not actually going to bed I'm just going to go lie in the dark and scroll my phone so he can't be mad at me.

Bed is a physical place. Yeah, I am going to bed. I didn't say I was going to sleep. I do the revenge sleep thing to the extreme, to the point, like that has to be one of my worst habits. I will do it to the point that I physically cannot keep an eye open anymore. There is no way.

You could give me a million dollars to say, oh, wait, that's how I do it, to the last, if you're looking at me on the video, to the last like blink and then the phone goes down and then I drift off. I don't know why I push myself to the limit. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, coming back to this conversation around how it affects relationships, I think it's twofold.

I think on one hand, there are absolutely relationships where partners are on their phones too much. That's a whole different kettle of fish, especially if it's affecting your ability to have conversations. If you're talking to your partner and they can't even hold a conversation because they pick up their phone midway. We've all experienced that. We've all been trying to have a conversation and then they've gotten distracted, picked up their phone and they're not actually listening to the stuff that we're saying.

It's also worse when you see that the finger is moving because you know that it's a scrolling Instagram. You're not paying a bill. That type of distracted multitasking can be absolutely infuriating. But on the other side of things, I also think it's okay to have very separate bedtime routines to your partner, especially if you've been in a long-term relationship and having some allowance for the fact that now phones have become, and I'm not saying it's healthy to your sleep hygiene or whatever else, but that's not my place to criticize. If that's become part of your wind down routine, that should also be an allowance and something that should be seen as okay. I don't take it as a personal insult if Matt wants to spend half an

hour scrolling TikTok on the couch but that's so long as I've gotten something out of him in the day. I think this would be particularly relevant for people who have children because like if you imagine you've had a big work day let's say you get home at six o'clock like for us Brit we would probably get home and have at least 15 minutes where you know you just might go to the toilet have a shower have a scroll whatever and I'm saying 15 minutes to give mine would be a lot more it's probably half an hour I just take that wind down time but I think if you walked in the door to kids and then you've got a parent like you just don't get that buffer of like oh now this is mental relaxation time yeah and I also think it's different if you're going to bed and your partner

is next to you on their phone because like that could be time that potentially something could happen if they weren't looking at goats but instead they're looking at pimple popping videos and it really doesn't ignite the passion well it brings you more pleasure okay well I mean no I I know which day is not to do it. It's the days that I go in and have a shower and I'm like, all right, well, it's on now. Anyway. What do you sound like?

So you're like, oh, shit. How often do you shower? Not often enough. Not enough. I'm sure you guys are pretty familiar with the name Luigi Mangione. And if that doesn't ring bells, well, this story will. He is the 26-year-old former Ivy League graduate who is currently on trial for the assassination of the UnitedHealthcare CEO,

Brian Thompson. I bet you you didn't know Brian Thompson's name off by heart. that's what we're going to get into. Now there was recently a new documentary that's been released on Binge and that was titled, Who is Luigi Mangione? And it's very much back in the sphere at the moment because he's on trial. One of the most surprising things about this specific murder and assassination was the very mixed reaction from the public. I'm sure you guys will remember the photo that was released of him from the CCTV footage where he was smiling at the receptionist at the hostel with his chiseled jawline and his beautiful white teeth. Now that footage of Luigi

was released and literally the internet went into meltdown about who he was, dubbing him the hot assassin. On one hand, there seemed to be very little regard or widespread empathy from the majority of the population over the death of Brian Thompson. And the way that people justified it is that he represented the corruption and profit of the American private health insurance companies. and I guess the thing that we wanted to talk about on this episode is this concept that surrounds Luigi and it's the Robin Hood effect. What we also wanted to unpack was the psychology behind some of the very mixed public reactions, the obsession that the internet had with the hot assassin and how things like pretty privilege and also the halo effect come into play.

Just to set up who he is, he's very young, very privileged, very well-educated man from Baltimore. He's very good looking, came from a wealthy family who sent him to college, gave him everything he needed. And he had an accident. He had a really bad back. He was surfing. He went and got surgery. There's conflicting information here. So the documentary leads you to believe that he had surgery for his lower back that then exacerbated the pain. And that's what started this vendetta against the healthcare system. But then there's other diary entries that say his pain got better, which is why the courts are leading us to say, let's not form any biases based on any of this information because we're not actually sure what is entirely correct. Yeah. And also I think it's

important to note that he is not a customer of UnitedHealthcare, neither is anybody from his family. So he has taken aim at one of the biggest health insurers in America, specifically at the head of that health insurance company, who was the CEO, but he has actually no ties to that specific health insurance company at all. So just to tell you what he is actually charged with, charges include federal murder and terrorism charges, which he has pleaded not guilty to. He's also charged in Pennsylvania with forgery, carrying firearms without a license, tampering with records or identification, possessing instruments of crime and providing a false identification to police. So there's like a multitude of things they're trying to get this kid on. I guess the

reason that this is an interesting chat for us is the idea that do we view criminals differently if they are not the way that we think a criminal should look and especially a murderer? Do we think that there is a young, well-educated, pretty handsome looking man that has assassinated someone do you have an internal pretty privileged bias when you look at them because there are reports and studies that say that without even knowing subconsciously us as the public and jurors are led down the track of giving lighter sentences based on the way somebody looks yeah and I think like the big thing about this and what was interesting from the doco look to be honest I didn't watch the doco and go like oh my god you need to run and watch this but it very much is in

the sphere of pop culture at the moment. The reason why it's crossed over from being like a true crime story to being pop culture facing is because of how much commentary there was around this guy when this all happened. And I'm talking the day that his mugshot was released, not even his mugshot, the CCTV footage, there were lookalike competitions that were held in the United States in the same way that they do lookalike competitions for like Harry Styles. This is like some of the commentary that happened online. Jamila Jamil, the day of it happened, wrote, a star is born. In reference. Yeah, I was shocked by that. That shocked me that it came from her now. Totally. Jonathan Van Ness, she copped a lot of backlash for that. Jonathan Van Ness, who is one

of the main hosts of the Queer Eye, he wrote, the next season should be solely dedicated to Luigi Mangione. No, I would not touch those gorgeous curls. Well, maybe just refresh them a little bit, but those brows would never touch them. Following on from that, there were people who wrote things like, this needs to be the new norm, posted one ex-user. Eat the rich were some of the other comments and things like, I hope that the UHC CEO shooter is never identified and goes on to become a hero of American folklore for hundreds of years. Well, Stephen Colbert, who's like a late night comedian, he even said, you know, the guy's Italian because you could grate parmesan on those abs. And the idea that we're perpetuating talking about somebody like this

as a hot assassin with great abs and great brows, et cetera, even if they don't intentionally mean to and they're capitalizing on a moment to make a little bit of humour. Like a meme, you mean. Well, what it does is sets the tone for the general public to think, oh, actually, maybe it is okay. Maybe it wasn't so severe. Maybe he is just being a vigilante that is fighting

for the poorer part of America. That is what has absolutely happened because healthcare in America is dire. Like if you don't know about the healthcare system in America, it is skewed towards the rich the rich can get what they want the rich get richer and the poor are left without health care basically so Americans and I guess the people around the world but Americans are looking at him not as somebody that has murdered one person but they're looking at someone that is standing up to the establishment they're looking at somebody that is coming up and

standing up for the little people and for the poor people and doing what everyone wanted to do but no could ever have the guts to do. So all of a sudden, Brian Thompson isn't a person anymore. He's a conglomerate. He's the representative of what is everything wrong with America. And he's being applauded for it. He had over $1 million donated to his fund to keep him out of prison, to help him get the best lawyers from the public. It's pretty insane when you think about it. And when I first read about the case, I want to be honest, I kind of like read the memes. I read the top line story. I was like, he's hot. I didn't really care. I didn't have this deep sympathy either. And I'm not saying that I like sit here with this like overtly emotional response to what

has happened, but I think what the reaction is, is truly fascinating. There's some details that are important around the actual killing itself. It happened like on a main street in Manhattan. So like shot dead on a main street in front of people. On top of that, the bullets that he was shot with had been inscribed with a permanent marker saying, delay, deny, defend, which are the hallmarks of what the health insurance companies in the United States are supposed to do. Delay claims, deny claims, defend claims to try and give out as little health insurance as possible in order to maximize profits. Because at the end of the day, these are all private corporations that all are based and funded around profits. But the thing about this is that talking about

him as though he's a Robin Hood vigilante, as we've just established, rather than someone who has been deeply radicalized like this is a man who created a riffraff gun on a 3d printer went out in the streets and shot someone dead in the back like it's pretty fucking insane and I do think that there's many versions of how we manage to kind of gloss over the gory details of someone's crime simply because of the way that they look or how they present and we find reasons and validations and excuses to say well it's not that bad because look at all these things this guy did where really Brian Thompson was just a CEO of a company going to work every day. He was a father of children. He was a husband and he got shot dead on a day that he was supposed to be presenting

at a seminar for work. Yeah. And I think when we initially spoke about this and, you know, we touched on, oh, well, you know, it's pretty privileged. He's hot. He's being treated better. And then as we went into a couple of studies and like what the halo effect actually implies, I've realized that there is this implicit bias that we have, whether we realize it or not. firstly for anyone who doesn't know what pretty privilege is it's kind of concept that good looking people have higher moral traits and they benefit in society in almost every way in the partners that they can get in the jobs that they can secure it is a real privilege to be attractive yeah colloquially it's just pretty privilege has it easier yeah pretty people have it easier yeah

it's also known as attractiveness bias there was this one study in 2021 that examined the stereotype that beauty is good and it found that attractive people were perceived to have more moral traits than unattractive people. There's also a study called Evaluating Faces on Trustworthiness After Minimal Time Exposure. And what I found really, really interesting about this is that the study asked people to report what they thought about a person based off of an image alone. And they found out that they made most of these assumptions about their trustworthiness based on less than a second of looking at them. It's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, it can be based off of things like facial symmetry or how much you see yourself reflected in someone a lot of it is unconscious though like

a lot of it you don't really know why it's happening well it's interesting if you think like if you just put yourself in a position now everyone where you're in a group of people you meet somebody new you might walk away how many times have you ever said like don't know what it is but there's something about them I just didn't gel with or something I didn't like and that's to do with that initial meeting where you haven't realized but you've already formulated an opinion based off one thing that might not seem, but I feel like that could be a little bit more spidey senses. Like you can just sometimes get a vibe about someone. I think the study found that this happened in 0.3 of a second. So like you haven't had time to form an opinion based off of what they

sound like, what they say, you know, it's only that really initial, this is what this person looks like. And a further, look, they're calling it a study. I would personally call it more of a survey, but what they did find was interesting. They found that unattractive defendants tend to get hit with longer, harsher sentences on average of 22 months longer in prison. Pretty privilege kind of can be extended into this thing called the halo effect. And that's basically where when you know one thing about a person, you make all of these assumptions about other things that they might have. We see this a lot with, I mean, I even see it.

I actually see it really, really regularly with my own partner. He's a doctor. And when I tell people that, I initially see them go, oh, wow. They make all of these assumptions about, like they just make all these assumptions. that he is a really moral person, that he's a good person, that he's a hard worker, that he cares about people. Luckily for me, those things are true, but they're not necessarily. And I know plenty of doctors who are like terrible people, but it's this halo effect of like, we hear one thing and we positively associate it with something else. And there was this interesting

study done in 2022 that found that if someone is perceived to be less attractive and less intelligent looking, they also seem to be less human to an onlooker. So to flip this, it generally means that if we find someone attractive we also ascribe a greater sense of humanness to them so like we think that they have a higher sense of humanity and in contrast if they are unattractive we dehumanize them if he was an unattractive middle-aged man with a terrible haircut and a pot belly i guarantee you people would not care about this case in the same way it would have made headline news for a couple of days while everyone talked about brian thompson's death and tried to unpack the reasoning why, he would not have the celebrity-ism that goes with

it. And the other part of this, you know, this is not something that's just isolated to this case, and it's something that we see quite a bit when you get these hot, hot celebrities. You guys would all know the hot felon. That mugshot is iconic. Jeremy Meeks. Yes, his name is Jeremy Meeks. He was arrested for gang violence being part of what's called the Crips in 2014. He was sentenced to 18 months or two years in prison. Part of that was assaulting a 16-year-old boy, and the other part of that was for robbery and grand theft. After that was released, he went viral on BuzzFeed. He had the most hits. He became a meme

overnight. I can see his mugshot right now. It's been more than 10 years. He's so hot. Mixed race, beautiful piercing blue eyes. I think most people can recall what that mugshot looks like. He also went on to marry a very rich woman. He went on to marry Chloe Green, who is the heiress of Topshop. He has children with her. He went on to be a successful actor, a successful model. His entire life and career changed because he was a felon. He's stunning. He's stunning. It's just giggling images.

Brittany's like, how could you be mad at that face? I know he's a felon, but he's hot. Because he's so beautiful. He's almost one of the most beautiful men I have ever seen. But obviously, you know, his crime is minor in comparison, but it's the same thing that happened with Jeffrey Dahmer and women writing him letters and falling in love with him while he was imprisoned.

this is a serial killer who has the most insane story we're all aware of it but what I think a lot of people might not be aware was how many women fell in love with him and committed to him throughout his time that he was in prison and it's this weird social paradox that happens when someone is good looking and how we're managing to overlook the things that they've done well when they yes but when they're good looking you're more likely to lean into the ethical ambiguity of saying well you know what they did do it for a good reason like that person wasn't that good of a person anyway whereas if they were socially unattractive you're going to be like you can't just go around murdering people like that is our own internal bias but I did this recently

to you guys this was before we did this prep right I was just doing our normal like let's look at the news let's look what's happening in the world and I came across an article I didn't want to talk about it I was just shocked myself and I sent it to you guys just to chat between friends and I said, isn't this unusual? Like, isn't this weird? And it's about a relatively young woman in the UK. She's a mum to two kids. She was a probation officer. She used to help people find their homes again and get jobs. And she is stunning. Like I'm going to show you a photo now. She could be a model. She's a beautiful blonde. She's just like, she's actually just stunning. She has just been charged with killing her partner from, it was an acid attack and she was involved in the

potential kidnapping of him but he did die in hospital and I was so shocked at the fact that a beautiful young woman was behind the attack you actually said to me you said gosh she doesn't look like the type of person who would orchestrate an acid attack does she it's literally what I said because I was so shocked that I started to even not look into the attack anymore I was so interested in the fact that this young beautiful seemingly normal woman could be behind that and I think that is what we're seeing with the shock of all these beautiful young people that are committing these crimes you don't even know you have the internal bias yeah and that is like literally the halo effect in action and I know that like it's something that we can all I mean a lot of

people can experience it without even realizing that that's what we're doing but one of the things I found really interesting from the documentary about Luigi Mangione and from all the research that we've done since since going down this rabbit hole I know more about this man than what I care to is that on the surface level and like we talked about the Robin Hood effect on surface level it looks like it is someone standing up to the corruption of a big industry. But when you go and you dig into, I mean, this was a man who was very prolific on Reddit. He has many journal entries. This is quite a radicalized potential sociopath. And the reason why I say this is because of the documented reviews that he has given around the Unibomber. He was a Unibomber

sympathizer and understood why the Unibomber was doing the things that he was doing. A lot of people think that he's like far left, but his political views are not congruent. There is like things out there that are very far right facing, it is like someone who has gone down an absolute mental spiral. And I think when you look at that and you place that alongside this idea of the Robin Hood effect, it gives you a greater picture because you're like, oh no, this is someone who is mentally unwell who went and did this. This is not someone who was sane of mind, who decided that actually this is a stance against a political injustice. And I think that that's a really important thing to keep in perspective because we can create the story around someone, but that

story isn't necessarily true. And that is what seems to have happened with the public around Luigi. I also think it's quite convenient if you look at the political situation in America at the moment. I mean, we even saw the riots, you know, with Trump on January 6th and like there seems to be this real pushback on institutions. And I think that he is kind of now at the moment being heralded as the pinup boy of this pushback and this vigilante justice and take down the big dogs. And it's been encouraged because Trump is back in power. You know, we're seeing that these people are wanting to vote for this anti-establishment kind of rhetoric and I myself have found it I've been intrigued by the fact that so many people have romanticized Luigi and I think that the

pretty privilege and the halo effect that happened instantaneously and I feel as though the other factors that kind of justified their romanticization of Luigi happened a little bit later you know like it was more finding out about things like Brian Thompson you know he was done for insider trading and like there were things that were morally questionable that he did and he did lead this organisation that really fucked a lot of people's lives. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. Yeah, I can see why people have this kind of Ned Kelly essence to him

of like, you know, you've done the wrong thing but you've done it for the right reasons and therefore I can get behind you. But at the end of the day, this guy murdered someone. Yeah, and don't get me wrong, Keisha, that was absolutely my impression of it as well. We've had a lot of conversations about this and I've unpacked it with a few friends and I think at the start I was more a sympathizer like I don't want to say a sympathizer I just didn't care that much like I

was like he's hot kind of looked at the memes thought they were funny I didn't really process the other side of it and I think that you know it's very easy to get caught up in the exactly what we said the celebrityism the storyline that's being created and not really think about what happened because the gory details are kind of left in the sideline of the memes and you can really get caught up in like the hoo-ha and the hotness and then potentially the actual stories get rewritten and we're recreating history of what actually happened. And what gets lost in this is the violence and the victims at the end of the day. I think this is something like we've never seen before, the justification of why he's done it. And I say that because we often do justify a

crime if we think it is deserved. So if somebody commits a crime against somebody else, because they committed a crime against a child, we're always going to say, well, that's why they did it. The reason this is on steroids, and we are still talking about it all around the world, is because of the level of reach and the level of people in America that have been touched by the injustices of the American healthcare system. There is almost no one there that hasn't had some kind of interaction disproportionately to probably what they are paying or what their companies are paying for their insurance.

You'd be hard done by to find someone that hasn't had a negative interaction with the healthcare system there, which is why this is bigger than Ben-Hur. It's why every single person is like, you know what, absolutely. because usually as somebody we sit back and watch a crime it has nothing to do with us we can still say morally questionable but we get it but in this case it touches almost every single american which is why they're all rooting for him i agree and i guess like the thing that is important to keep perspective on is that this brian thompson guy the guy who is the victim who literally no one knows the name of he's become the pinup of the entire corrupt system of america

and that seems like a completely unfair burden for one man to carry at the end of the day and i'm not saying that he's innocent in the corrupt world he didn't deserve the health insurance you know but like that is a beast that one person is not responsible for the united health care whatever it is like they are not responsible for it is part of a greater system and having one person be the pinup of that and having an assassination be justified because of a greater a political problem seems like to me a really grotesque thing to try and justify in any way. The only thing that I'm kind of left wondering is whether this will actually cause any change to happen within the insurance industries, you know, like whether...

No, they'll just have more security for there. That's kind of where I am like, you know, maybe he wanted to be this symbol of resistance and maybe people are kind of heralding him as that. And I can imagine that if I was personally touched by the effects of these healthcare companies, then I might feel differently to how I feel. But I just wonder if it's kind of like nothing's going to change you know the only thing like you said is that they might ramp up security and that would be a really sad thing because I think the only silver lining of this crime is that it has shone a light on just how corrupted is the world now knows you know I know that we all knew that the insurance companies in America were kind

of cooked and I don't think I had any understanding as to how bad it was and maybe that's the one positive thing that came from this is that they are under the spotlight more but unless there's going to be reform and actual legal change i don't see it changing well it is time for suck and sweet our highlights and our lowlights of the week i will kick it off because i'm getting married i had to wind yeah i know shock i had to intentionally wind back my migraine botox because i need to be able to hold my neck up for for the dance so that you don't flop around do you know what else i've even realized it's not just the dancing because ben's so much taller than me gotta look up yeah when I look up at him when it gets to a certain angle I can't hold it anymore and it flaps back

so you got bridesmaids for me what hold my neck up why don't you hold my train you may now kiss the bride Sherry please hold the back of Brittany's head I had to wind my neurologist was like let's give you like half and if it's if all hell breaks loose we can do more but you're not going to be able to dance or dip or kiss or look up so because of that my headaches are like back with a vengeance which is fine I'm managing it it's not migraine level yet but it's quite bad like I vomited this morning. I feel really sick today, but after the wedding, I'm back pumping that shit up. I'm going to have to wear a neck brace after the wedding. But my sweet is my mom came to the Hens as well, which is really fun. I don't get to see my mom a lot. She lives five hours up the coast,

but she did come down with my sister-in-laws and my sister and she sent it. She loved it. She was like probably the most energetic at the end of the night. It was, it was good to see her having fun. And also she got to meet everyone in my life because she knows a lot of you via distance. I actually think, Laura, it was the first time you met her in person, was it? Or second? We've met once before in person. Yeah. But we've spoken on the phone.

You speak all the time. But it was nice. You know, I see your mum a lot more because she's close this year. She's here. She's Sydney. Well, she's Wollongong based, so she's here more often for sure. Yeah. So that was cool just to see my mum having a good time and see her, like, get to meet

all the people in my life. Laura, what's your suck? My suck for the week is that I thought I was in the clear. I thought I was second trimester ready to get down boogie. I am so sick. So I was like great for about three weeks. I had morning sickness for the first trimester. Then I was good for about three, maybe four weeks.

And then it's just come back with a vengeance. So like boarding the boat for Brit's Hens, just before we bought it, I had to go and buy a chicken sandwich. You were eating the second we were on the boat. I was like, I ate a full chicken sandwich at 11am because I was like, I need to eat or I'm going to vomit. I had fruit tingles, Gaviscon. I had one of those quick ease little chewables.

Also, they are delicious. Maybe that can be my vibe for the week. They're sweet. They're the nicest of all of the indigestion medication that you've got to take. They're the nicest of the indigestion. I'm talking about a geriatric hens. We have just gone into like, we've gone into old territory. Guys, I've literally tried all Rennie's tablets.

Rennie's are so effective, but they taste like shit. They taste like eating chalk. They're so disgusting. Anyway, but they work really well. So I also had those. You'd also think at this point, like medication like that, that'd put a little bit of effort into making it taste good. It can't be that hard to put a bit of flavor in a wafer.

Spearmint, and I can't do spearmint, so that's maybe on me, but spearmint for me is my most detested flavour of all flavours in the entire world. I also hate spearmint. Even more than onion microphone, so I'm just going to double down. And my sweet for the week is that we have picked a name for the baby. Mate, you can't do that if you're not going to tell us. First name, middle name, and also last name.

Surprise, surprise. Is it the one that we know? You guys don't know the middle name yet. No, but the first one? You know the first name. Yeah. Marley chose the middle name. Go on.

Which also. Do it out of options or just? She just picked it. She picked it. Look, it's a cute name, but the reasons behind it, I don't know if the child's going to love, but that's fine. They don't need to know. Can't wait to hear that one.

Then, yeah, it's going to be another Johnson. So there you go. But I won't tell – ooh, tease you. Are you going to tell us the new name off, Mike? Yeah, I'll tell you. Okay. Can't wait. Anyway, guys, that is it from us.

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