Life Uncut - WE ARE BACK! Britt's in love, wild break ups and cat fishing with Nev Schulman

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

We are backkkkkkkk! My word we've missed you! And of course we know y'all want the goss (frankly, so do we). Britt is back from gallivanting in Scotland and she's returned with a new boyfriend. We're happy to report that L bombs have been dropped.This episode starts with all the juicy deets you want: how they met, how they're going to make it work cross-continental long distance and Laura's hesitations about it! Next up we asked what the worst reasons were that someone has used to break up with you. It's a new year but I find myself asking the same question; WHERE THE HECK DO YOU FIND THESE PEOPLE?!? But truly, these were a laugh and a half. Then we are joined by the wonderful Nev Schulman, the host of the TV show Catfish! Nev chats about some of the best and worst Catfish stories from all 8 seasons, how to spot and avoid a catfish, and his dating tips for all of us still on the apps.You can find Nev here: https://www.instagram.com/nevschulman/?hl=en You know the drill, hit subscribe wherever you're listening, leave a review, tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because we love love!! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode of the podcast was recorded on Gadigal land of the Eora Nation. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. Guess who's back? Who? It's Brittany Huckley.

That was me. Who? It's me. I'm the problem, it's me. Yeah, exactly. In the words of Taylor Swift. We have such an awesome episode lined up for you guys and we'll be getting into that very shortly. But what is in today's episode is, First up, I am drilling Brit on her brand spanking new relationship.

Are we going to say the word? Love. Boyfriend? Britney has a boyfriend. Relationship, boyfriend, love. Britney, aren't something I thought would be all in the same sentence for a very long time. Not this soon, that's for sure. And I know that you guys have a lot of questions.

Trust me, I have just as many questions and I ask them all. We also are unpacking some of the worst reasons that people have given you for breaking up with you. And they are absolutely fucking hilarious. Then we're speaking to someone I'm very excited about, Niamh Shulman. Now, he is the host of the hit TV show, Catfish, which I've watched for a very long time. But we want to speak to him about catfishing, everything about it, why people do it, how to spot it and how to get away from it. All right, let's get into it. We're back.

Hi, everyone. It is us. And we are back from a long, bloody holiday. Actually, no, I'm not back from a long holiday. You are, Brittany Hockley. I love that you said, it is us. It is us. What about the people that have just joined us and they don't know who us is?

Well, they might think you're Matthew Johnson since he's been on here for quite a bit recently. I don't think I sound anything like Matthew Johnson. I will be offended. Actually, I won't be offended if anyone compares me to Matty J. Why? I mean, I... Well, he's hot. You're very attractive.

But I don't look like a man. But he's like a hot, he's like a hot, fit, beautiful man. Like he's a dad with an eight pack. To be fair, if I was going to go for a woman, I probably would go for someone similar to you, but not you because I know you so well. That's so offensive. Like if I looked at you, I might, but now that I know you, I'm not going to go. Yeah, like you're my type, but just not you.

Oh my God, this is perfect because this kind of leads me into something I'm desperate to talk to you about on this episode. We're not brushing over this. What do you mean I'm your type, but not because it's me? Just because I know you so well and I'm not attracted to you, but I love you. Does that make sense? Why aren't you attracted? I'm far more offended than I probably should be.

Because I'm not attracted to women, Brittany. So that should not come as a surprise. This is like when Mitch Turi said if he had to pick someone, he'd have sex with you over me. Oh, this happened. Our radio co-host, Mitch Turi. To give you some background on that story, last year we were talking, we were sitting in the radio booth and Mitch, who is a gay, he said if he had to have sex with one of us, he would have sex with me. And Britt got so offended. I was.

I was very offended. By the hypothetical possibility that somebody would want to have sex with me over her. Yeah, but then don't you remember what happened? like two months later he forgot he said it and then you were laughing at that I was offended he forgot he said it and he made the joke again but he said he would have sex with me and you got you were like hang on a minute two months ago you told me it was me and then you got offended yeah I felt like he'd led me on Mitch Tree the gay player if he was straight oh my god Frida I have missed you so much there is so many things that we need to talk about firstly the fact that you

have a boyfriend against all my good advice the term like makes me blush and I also feel like we're in year six where you're like k-i-double-s-i-n-g we're the podcast equivalent of that I'm glad everyone's tuned in okay so we need to go back to how hang on how far because there's some trauma in my past no like how far are we going we need to go back to how you met said boyfriend and I need the story okay because there was a lot of soft launching that happened on the internet and I have feelings about it and we need to speak well if there is a current queen of soft launching it is now me no you can't dub yourself as the queen of soft launching when you continue to deny that you do it like that's the problem I have um okay well said boyfriend has a name

everyone his name is Ben oh what's Ben's what's Ben's last name so that people can stalk him okay well the Aussie version when we butcher everything is Ben Segrist Benjamin Segrist but his name is, I mean, I'm probably pronouncing this wrong myself because he's Swiss. It's Benjamin. Britt's about to butcher her own boyfriend's name. Benjamin. Benjamin Sigrist.

Sigrist. Sigrist. Benjamin. But they don't say the J, but we go Benjamin Sig, because we're Australian. How would you say your name with such accent? Brittany Nicola Mayo Hockley. Mayo.

It'll get me every time. It's so bone. Ben, his name's Ben. And he's, yeah, we're probably, I don't know, three months deep now to the relationship. Look at your face. I'm fully blushing. Okay, let's wind it back. So we met.

How all good relationships start. Yes, in this day and age and how my only other relationship started was on Raya, which is a dating app. So we met on a dating app. so I basically I mean you guys know I talk about my dating life often but you probably didn't hear a lot about it in 2022 I didn't go on a lot of dates I was online a lot like having a little perv like a little peek around and like dipping my toes in but I I think I went on maybe three dates from memory in the year like I was seeing this one guy very casually very very casually but I think there were only three people.

And I, I mean, the one guy that Britt was seeing casually, which was like, I guess a bit more long-term. I'm very critical of your dating, but it's only because. Oh, are you? I didn't know that. It's only because I want the best for you. I know. And it's because I hold impeccably high standards for you.

Your standards for me are higher than my standards for me. No, but also because I worry about you getting into a complicated relationship, which may have happened subsequently but let's let's continue so you met on Raya yeah because he obviously does not live here and that's a big part of this conversation but he what was he doing here well okay so hang on let me get back to what I was saying I didn't really date a lot in 2022 I had a very you know heartbreaking year I was recovering a lot from my heartbreak the heartbreak stayed and lingered for far longer than I ever imagined it could have do you feel like you are completely over Jordan now I'm over him yes like but I'll always hold a love for him and I think

that's a normal when you move on relatively amicably like you hold a respect for somebody or a soft spot in their heart but there's no I'm completely over that like I'm completely smitten with my relationship but it took me a long time and I I tried to rush it and get back into the dating scene because I thought that's what would help me but for me some people that might work for me that didn't work so I tried to get back into it to forget that relationship and it didn't work try to get under it to get over it yeah so I stay so I basically didn't really date often for the year and then anyway come November I woke up this one day and I'd said it to produce Keisha and I'd said it to a few friends and I don't think I had said it to you because I didn't see you that

day this just happened on one day I was like I woke up and I was like I'm feeling good something's left me I feel lighter I feel like I'm ready to get back on the horse you're like I'm gonna get of dicking that was not the terminology but but it turns out that that's what happened so I thought you know what I am I'm gonna hit the ground running I'm gonna go on find somebody to have a fling with that's what I thought in my head so I went online to Raya I thought first I'll try Raya then I'll try the other dating apps and then because I didn't want to know them either Raya is really good for that because it's very transient people come and go usually people use it when they're traveling whereas I feel like everyone out there that's listening right

now that's on a dating app you know that like especially in somewhere like the eastern suburbs of sydney if you've lived there a long time i still see people on the dating apps that i saw six years ago with the same profile pictures like i didn't want that to happen i wanted a real transient like get back out there nothing serious it's so true like i still and i mean you know i've been happily in a relationship with matt now for six years and i will still see guys from time to time and i'll be like how do i know you and i'm like oh i'm pretty sure i have only ever seen you in a dating app and your face is yes for six years yeah I'm like you don't look like that anymore I saw you on the promenade anyway so I thought it was best for me to go and do it with

someone that's transient that I'm never gonna see again never gonna run into so I jumped on rare and again I see a few of the same faces and I'm like this is not gonna work and then this one face popped up and it was Ben I was like wow that guy's good looking checking on the bio he's foreign tick doesn't live here he was here for a short time hence the foreign part athlete wasn't a tick benefit but anyway that was a I thought that would be really good if I was gonna have a fling right someone like fit and healthy that can really go the long haul well you have to really put this thought in so we matched and he didn't know where I live because you don't have that on your thing and he messaged me straight away and said hello we got chatting

for a bit and he was in Bondi he was down icebergs and I was like oh I live up the road in Bondi and then in my head I was like this is gonna be perfect and I was trying to say like let's have a little no strings attached fling but in my head I was like I don't want to just say it I wanted to just subliminally put the message out you know and without being as direct yeah I just want to be as direct so like we put it out there and then he kept reiterating right he was very respectful but kept being like what are you looking for in here yeah I just want you to know I'm not looking for long distance I'm just here for a couple of days you know he'd been here for a week for football he's a football player so they had finished their week of playing and training

and he had a couple of days extra of holiday so I just thought this is great he's going on Monday and he just kept driving home like do not want a relationship and I was like bro read the room let's just hang out for a few days and then you can go and I'll never see you again so we met up and we had like a really great date what I call it's a date we hooked up for a couple of days but for the first day I just thought I'd never see him again it was perfect I was like this is great like you say this but I remember these conversations as this was unfolding and you were smitten from literally the first fucking day like the first day and I he was only here for three days and I even managed to meet him in that time that he was here like everybody met him Patricia Keisha

met him Maddie J met him I was like this is going to be either great or a disaster yeah and I'm happy for you, but I'm still not sure which one it is. Well, I'm not sure which one it is yet either. Yeah. After the first night, yes, I was smitten, but also I understood what it was. So I was like, that was great for what it was. And then he messaged me the next day and he's like, I really liked seeing you. Do you want to hang out again today? Yes. And he got a bit more affectionate every day. Cause he was very much like, I don't like PDA on day one. Don't like PDA. Don't want to cuddle. Don't want a relationship. Next day was a bit more, a bit more cuddly, a bit more affectionate. Next day was the same. This went for four days. And by the fourth

day, he was like, I just want to be with you. He was like, I never want to leave you. I'm exaggerating, but like, he was like, I really like you. And I said, I really like you too. If you lived here, you would be someone I would love to date. That's what I said. And then that sold it for him. He was like, well, why does that matter if I don't live here? If we are the people that we would want to date, let's keep talking. And I was in my head, the first thing I was, there was like one part of me was like, there's like angel and devil. One part of me was like amazing this makes me feel good the other part was like how am I gonna tell Laura like this should have been like the most this should have been the best moment for me where

I was like yes this person like wants to explore this with me and all I could think of was Laura's gonna kill me she's gonna like jujitsu me onto the studio floor and pin me to the ground and lock me in my room and never let me out again do you know why and like and I say this with all the love like I and I mean it I am so happy like I'm so happy that you're happy I all I want is for you to be happy in a relationship not all I want I want other things in life too but like that's high up I want my girls to go to uni I want them to be happy but I want you I just want but I want you to be in a relationship where you feel emotionally secure where you feel secure not just in distance in how supported you are in the level of priority that you take in their life like all of those

things are things that I want for you and I know you want them for yourself and I guess that that was something that was hugely lacking in your relationship with Jordan also the distance thing did become a problem because there wasn't necessarily a solution to the distance you know being a professional sports player his career was being a professional sports player and your career is working in media in Australia so I guess like my first thought is like how are you guys going to manage this but I also understand that like you know the heart wants what the heart wants and sometimes being like the absolute realist on something isn't necessarily the best way to be either. We know the heart wants distance. And I've said it before, if they're not emotionally

unavailable, they're physically unavailable, but extremely emotionally available. Yeah. And I guess like I need to check myself in terms of how much of a realist I am in the expectations I place on you, because I know that when I was dating, I would say one thing and do another, you know, like I struggled with the self-control or being like, not even self-control, but like being realistic with myself because I would get caught in the romance of it and the love of it and the feelings and if those feelings are there you almost think well how can I not explore them how can I not do what feels right for me well that's exactly it and you know how I guess infrequently I feel things deeply like I definitely don't just run to the next person I don't run for

comfort like for me to really connect and have that excitement it happens once in a blue moon so we spoke for like the next six weeks and we ended up just speaking for hours a day it was almost hindering my life like we were just non-stop talking getting to know each other and it was so nice because it wasn't a physical thing we were just getting to know each other on the phone and like we're having really deep conversations he is so emotionally available it's ridiculous he's the most emotionally in touch man I have ever met and I don't know if it's because he's European or he you know he was brought up by so many women like his grandma and his sister and his mom and you can really notice it but after a couple of weeks we just I thought I'm not going to get sucked into

this and waste my time on the phone and messaging and whatever else like I don't need a pen pal in my life exactly so we had to make a decision are we going to explore this and try it or are we just going to cut it and then maybe once a year we would check in and see how each other are so I decided well we both decided to I'll use my holiday to go over there for a month which is wild because Scotland is very cold I mean I did live there but no what not wild because of the weather Laura I know that's crazy it's very cold why would you leave an Australian summer to go to a winter in the middle of Europe sounds like a fucking terrible idea to me it's more yes that was I mean I love that that's where your brain went but I mean more wild because I'd known him for three days four

days max and then I went we just went to live together for a month so that was really crazy so I went over there and it was different at the start. We didn't go over there in a relationship. We went there to see if there's a potential for anything, how we get along, how it's like living with each other, what each other's life. So like what we want in life, we wanted to have those conversations in real life. So we didn't really have a lot of them on the phone. And like I said on the podcast before I left, I was like, worst case scenario, I'm going to go and have a great sex holiday. Like I'm going to just go. No. Britt said to me, I was like, what do you want out of this? This is the conversation we had just before she left. And she was like, look, the worst case

scenario is that I'm going to have the best sex of my life. And then I'm going to come back from a great holiday feeling energized. And I was like, no, Brit, the worst case scenario is that you're going to come back in love. That's the worst case. And where are we at, Brit? Your girl is head over heels in love. I'm in love. Yeah. I'm so happy for you, honey. And I joke when I say worst case scenario, it's all of these feelings of reservations. They don't come from me. I just want you to be happy and I worry about you getting heartbroken again and I know how hugely fucked last year was like I know how hard it was when things didn't work out with Jordan but it doesn't have to be a case of history repeating itself and I don't want to be you know if I ever am being negative

like tell me to pull my head in because that's not my place to be either and I really want you to feel supported and loved and I know everyone listening to this podcast is so fucking happy for you but that's the thing you're never negative you're just an overly realist and I think it's important to say now yes we're in love yes we're happy yes we're going to try I'm still very aware that that might not translate to a marriage and happy ever after like we still might not be able to work it out we still might not be right for each other but I could date someone down the street and it doesn't work out and we're not right for each other and I got so much support from you guys when you know I said I'm in love and I'm happy and there was so much love I was overwhelming so thank you

but there are a few people obviously that put their two cents in that weren't happy or that or a bit more negative. I just said exactly that. This one person said, you know, like, bravo, what do you think's going to happen? You know, he lives overseas, it's never going to work, learn from the past. I said back to them, I was like, but, like,

I've dated people down the road and it doesn't work and people live together in marriages and it doesn't work. I don't think you can just say because it's distance and all I'm doing is saying I met someone that makes me feel amazing and he feels amazing and we are happy and in love and we're going to try and if it doesn't work, that's okay. If it works, fuck yeah. It's also not a gotcha moment either.

And I think the other big thing about this is it really reflects how we interpret relationships. Like we only see relationships as a success if you end up married to that person and have kids with them, right? Like that's, and maybe saying having kids is a bit of a generalization, but we see long term as a success. I have had successful relationships that were not very long lived. And the reason for that is I learned so much about myself. Like I learned so much about what I wanted in a relationship, how I navigated that relationship.

I'm better in my now relationship because of all the other ones I've had so I think sometimes it's reframing this idea around well what constitutes a successful relationship because there are people who are together for a really fucking long time and they are not successful relationships but this idea as well that we have as a society that if you're in a relationship and you break up it was a failure that's what I mean yeah it's not why is that failure imagine if you just went and dated someone and married them which is great but some people do no but if every single person for you yeah brother if every single person did like it just doesn't work like that and I think we need to stop saying exactly what you said I gotcha told you and I'm sure if we don't if Ben and I

don't work out which like I know right now I'm in it for it to work out like I am 35 I don't date like I date now with a purpose and I'm not going to date someone because I think that I want to have fun for a month of course I want to have fun but I am consciously dating for a purpose because I want to find my penguin and I want to have my life with someone so I'm doing that now if it doesn't work out there will be people that are like told you so what did you think was going to happen and you know that's okay if they want to say that but I think we need to reframe this in our minds when we're talking to our friends or family or anything you know if a relationship doesn't work out it's not a what did you think was going to happen moment it's a well you know

I'm sure you had an amazing maybe had an amazing time maybe you learned from it and you're going to take that into your next relationship to find your person. And the other part of this as well, I agree with everything you said, Britt, but like the other part of this is it's literally the reason we started this podcast. One of the biggest conversations we had day one in the very first year of Life Uncut was how incredibly transformative that time is after a breakup. You learn so much about yourself as a person. Now I'm not saying this, this is not a, hey, if you ever break up, you're going to learn so much about yourself. But I just mean like that is such a special time of personal growth and anyone who has been through the the trauma of a breakup those feelings of

rejection and having to rebuild their life and rebuild their identity knows how hugely pivotal it is in making you who you are as a person now big question for you brit yes the sex was great yeah girl i'm glad how many times a day oh i lost count after like six seven no i'm seven times a day I couldn't walk okay the first two days were pretty wild and then did you have to have a day off this is too much I had to make yeah a calendar and I was like this is our day off is our recovery day this is no we're very compatible okay that's great that's that's amazing is that a diplomatic way of saying like we are compatible so it was Matt and I we um like to have missionary for seven minutes both of us it is so rare to find that okay well I mean the big question is do you

guys have a plan like what's your plan now for the next year or six months like how are you going to see each other is he going to move here are you going to leave me so it wasn't so it wasn't until the end we'd said we loved each other actually like as in like you sat there and went I love you did you do the point blank I love you or was it like a cutesy haha I love you I love the way you do that haha love you pal no so for a while we were like okay it was actually very immature but we were like we would you would always think the other person wanted to say it because it makes me feel weird thinking about it because it's like such a it's so lame we all know what it's like when you're in that first but that first time that you're gonna say it is a really

awkward moment almost and it shouldn't be there were so many times i thought oh my god he's about to say it and he'd be like looking into my eyes and we're on like a romantic weekend away and He'd be like, I just really like a lot. And then he'd be like, like you. And I was like, I also really like you. And then we had to do these moments. There were always these moments. And then it got a bit more playful where we both knew that we were pretending to say it and we didn't.

And anyway, eventually we said it and it was fine. Now we say it all the time. But that was a really cute feeling, but I forgot what I was going to say. I've gone back into the love bubble. What was the question? Who am I? Oh, okay. The plan.

Yes. so that we didn't say we're in a relationship until the end because I really wanted to be sure I was sure of him but I needed to be sure that I wanted to go back into a long distance relationship now I know we always joke that it's my thing and it's not the end of the world but if I'm being honest of like I say that yes I'm attracted to people overseas and that you know but I do want a partner like I do want to live with someone and have that life like it is a bit of a joke so I don't want to for the rest of my life have someone that I see five times a year so I needed to make sure I did actually want to go back into that and I didn't really to be honest and I told him that

but then we had this really good conversation and I can't think of one reason I cannot fault him right now in one part of his entire life who he is anything about him he's just the most divine human and I just thought at the end I would just be stupid to not try this because you were just the most beautiful man and I said look I really needed to go back with a plan because you haven't really met laurier but i i need like a schedule i need a powerpoint i need a pre-pdf i need to show her the positive pitch yourself to me ben where is he pitch yourself we've got a team's meeting after this it starts at 11 30 i also i spoke to him on the phone today and i was like babe you need to get a booster for the wi-fi because i need to tell laura that if i ever go

back the wi-fi's impeccable fuck no your wife okay we tried to record this is why brit wasn't on the bonus episode we did because the wi-fi was so bad that kisha and i have already discussed it you can't do long distance and work from over there that's that's ruled out because you've not proven your point also the time schedule being on other ends of the world early mornings late nights not no no I'm not having it well you're gonna have to get used to that um no but we do have a plan we're gonna go back and forth this year I mean we've mapped out the year you know holidays he gets holidays I get holidays I'm going there he's coming here like probably another two times each if we can but that's the plan and then we will revisit next year if we're still together but

we're not going to plan that far ahead now because that's just silly so I think we'll just plan out this year and hope for the best long term he wants to live in Australia like he wants to settle here he loves it but that's probably a couple years away because he's got to finish his football contracts and do all that stuff and you know he's in his prime over there so I would never ever tell anyone to not live out there during you know well do you know what this does mean Britt we have been teasing it for a long time doing an episode on long distance and we thought But we couldn't do it because of the last situation. But now we can.

It's back on the cards, baby. See, I did this for you. This is me doing this for you. This is all for the content. I understand. But whatever happens, it's going to work out. I'm such a believer in that. And I don't mean the relationship.

I mean the relationship, the podcast, recordings, holidays, like whatever. We're going to work it out. We love love. You know the whole saying, like, it's not fine until it's the end. And if it's not fine, it's not the end. That just confused me. But anyway. Yeah, I don't know who I am.

we're all happy for you Britt I'm so happy that you're in a place that is so vastly different to where you were last year I'm so happy that you are happy you are absolutely emanating excitement and love and all of the feelings and I guess like for me it's hard being someone who's so close to you and not being able to know your partner very well like you know normally when your you know your closest friend gets a boyfriend you get to meet their boyfriend and be kind of part of that life but I guess it's the same thing with Jordan like I didn't get the opportunity to really get to know Jordan that much because he's so separate from distance and that is another part of the kind of I guess the realities of navigating a long-distance relationship well we will all spend

time together when he comes you'll get to know him you can quiz him we can go to dinner you can do whatever you want all right once again Ben get the powerpoint presentation ready you know what you have missed so much when you've been here not a lot's been going on in my life uh it's been going on yeah matt and i have uh we really dedicated ourselves to batch on cart episode out yesterday everybody if you missed it and want to listen to it it's chaotic there's a lot happening but something that happened on the show which i know you haven't watched any of the bachelor no you're not alone i think a lot of people didn't watch it i couldn't watch a lot when i was overseas and then i got back and there was like two episodes left so i just thought you know what i'll just

stay a virgin and you can film me well the thing i wanted to talk about obviously podcast uh batch Virgin. Just a really, in case there was any confusion out there. Because I certainly wasn't a virgin whilst I was away in Scotland. Far from. Okay. So the thing I wanted to talk to you about is something that happened. Okay. Were you following it at all? Jed, Alicia, do you know who? Machine Gun Kelly, you know who he is. You interviewed him. I've interviewed the boys multiple times on the radio over the summer. So I actually know them pretty well. And I followed on the news. I just have like, I followed all the headlines and the articles and I just haven't literally sat down and watched the episode.

Also, Jed breaks up with Angela. You know, the normal, you know what I mean. It's not you, it's me. We've all been there. I mean, you've been there multiple times. No, when I say that, I mean like you've actually experienced it on The Bachelor where they kind of like work you out, like they build you up to make you think that you're about to win and then they say, but it's, you know, it's not you, it's me.

Okay. Because they sort of have to do that in the final. Well, Jed took a really interesting approach to letting down Angela. Oh no. And we spoke about it on Batch Uncut, but basically he came up with an excuse. So instead of just breaking up with her and being honest and saying, I'm in love with Alicia. Like I connected with someone else.

Totally. Like I have a lot of strong feelings for you. I thought I was falling in love with you, but my feelings for Alicia superseded them. That's all he had to say. Yeah. He said that. I'm already laughing.

I actually don't know what he said. Because he's a drummer. So he was like, look, I got to travel a lot. I know that's a problem for you. But like they had never discussed it being a problem. Like it was just the weirdest, most like made up breakup. And it made me think of all the crazy things that people have said either to you or to whoever during a breakup. Hang on.

First, before we get into that, what did, so he said, I can't be with you because I'm a drummer and I travel. And then what did she say? She was like that, but that wasn't a problem. She was like, what? And he's like, no, I know that you want a boyfriend who's here. And she was like, never said that. And he's like, I can't give you everything that you want. And she's like, everything I wanted you were giving me.

I'm missing the problem and he's like I just need more time to myself and she's like mate are you in love with someone else are you about to leave me for another girlfriend the way he was setting it up made it seem like he almost wasn't going to choose anyone he needed an excuse because he didn't have the confidence of doing a breakup right and I relate to this with all my heart because I am a wuss I am a pussy when it comes to breaking up with people I have stayed in relationships for literally years because I couldn't break up with them. Laura, I tried to break up with someone and he said no. And I was like, okay, he just said no. I was like, I just don't think we should be together and I want to break up. And he said no. And I was like, I stayed

with him for ages because I didn't have the confidence. Well, I mean, I think that this is very relatable. So I put the question out. What is the worst excuse that someone has come up with to break up with you? And the answers that we received were unbelievably wild. Let's read some out. Okay. I'm trying to think. I don't know if anyone's had a really cooked excuse for me.

Oh, don't worry because our listeners made up for it. I need to meal prep on Mondays and Thursdays and that really limits the time I have to date at the moment. Hang on. That's just rung a bell. That happened to me. No. Yeah.

Someone broke up with you because they needed to meal prep. You know. Organisation is key. It was the only person I've seen recently, like before Ben, the one in Bondi that was all really weird, that couldn't commit. You know that one? Who kept being like, I love you, but I don't love you, but I need to be with you, but I can't be with you here.

It was that one. He literally sent, we were supposed to go on a date in the afternoon and he goes, I've got to go home and meal prep. It was like four o'clock. And I was like, y'all. Keisha's nodding because she remembers. I forgot until now. Okay.

So just so you guys have some context about who this person is. He lived only about 500 meters from Brit, but refused to ever come to her house. He just moved into my street. He missed him on my street. I'm not kidding. He moved him to my street. Okay. All right.

I've got one. You don't wear enough dresses and I just like girls in dresses. Oh. Also, I mean, you can always increase the amount of dresses that you wear. Buy me a dress, bitch. He broke up with me and said, quote, our dogs don't get along. So this is a deal breaker for me. That hits home a bit.

You would break up with someone if Delilah didn't get along with their dog. Keisha's nodding. So yeah, I'm a bit of a doggist. Yeah, it's a pretty big thing. You're a doggist. Well, if your dogs don't get along, it's almost impossible to live together because they could have full-on brawl fights. What if your dogs get along so much that one of them continually tries to hump the other?

That would be you and me, Brit. Are you humping me constantly? No, Buster humping Delilah. Buster wants to hump Delilah all the time. But that's fair. Buster has three legs and he slips off the side, so he doesn't really get much of a look in, does he? Okay, you watch Big Brother and I'm not into that.

I don't know if that's breakup worthy. Turn the TV off. Change the channel. I don't think she has to watch Big Brother for the rest of her life, right? Like, there's surely some compromise. I also think, like, TV choices is a pretty, I mean, like, I was about to say it's a stupid one, but also I can kind of relate to the fact that maybe he's talking about and encompassing all TV.

Because if you have not the same taste in TV, how are you ever going to have a movie night? How are you going to cuddle on the couch and watch your little soaps together? Yeah, but he said specifically Big Brother. Like, I don't think you break up with someone because once a year for three weeks there's a TV show on. It's poor, but this is worse. It is poor form.

I blink too much. Wait, my ex said he wasn't having fun anymore. I was 30 weeks pregnant at the time. They broke up. She was pregnant. With his baby? Yes. I just wanted to clarify.

Hi. He was doing a six-week fitness challenge and he didn't want to, quote, lose focus. Fair. Eye on the prize. No. Six-week fitness challenges take a lot of energy and time. He might not have been able to see her for six weeks. I'm sorry, but I would say add some sex into your regime

and it will increase your fitness challenge. If you are putting effort, if you are bringing your focus to the bedroom day or night, you are only upping calories burnt, energy expenditure. I think you're unpacking this a little bit too seriously, Britt. No, I'm taking this. If somebody broke up with me because they're like, I'm trying to get fit for six weeks, I'd be off that.

And I would also have a PowerPoint of what you can do. You would be off it. But that's the whole point. But I feel like the whole purpose of this is that the excuses are ridiculous. Yeah, so what I'm doing is counteracting every excuse. I am bringing you a reason why I'm saying no, you cannot break up with me. You are too mainstream for me. That's something Jed the Rocker would say.

I think I would be too mainstream for some people. I am too. Just too plain. Yeah, I'm like Ed Sheeran. Yeah, Harry Styles. Justin Biebs. Like, I'm pretty mainstream. Taylor Swift.

If I'm, we're as like pop culture, we're on reality TV. We're as pop culture mainstream as it comes. Actually, you're worse than me. I was, Laura and Keisha came over for a meeting yesterday and I was playing some music on my like Alexa. Oh no, don't start this. This doesn't make you alternate. This just means you're absorbing your boyfriend's personality.

No, the reason this is funny is you came in and you were like, what is this? Who are you? You've never listened to this in your life. And I was like, Ed Sheeran. It was Ed Sheeran and Burner Boy, a combined song. and you were like, this is, and that's when I was like, you are very mainstream. This is Ed Sheeran.

No. With Burnaboy. The song that we were listening to was not. It was just Burnaboy. No, it's not. And I was like, who is this? It's a collab with Ed Sheeran. Yeah, right.

Okay. Brittany only listens to this now because Ben listens to this. You know when your friend gets a new boyfriend and they start like playing music that they've never played, they start wearing clothes that they've never worn. That's me. It's because she is, she's like osmosising into Ben. That's what happens.

Yes. Osmosis is an unusual word. It's when once, I mean, Permanent, someone's semi-permeable membrane goes into the other or something like that. We should stop. A made up word. Okay, let's continue. Okay, I've got a good one.

He couldn't get it up and he said his body knew that this wouldn't work because his dick said no. Okay. He had to listen to his penis. There is no truth to that because like maybe something else is going on. No, I feel like this literally ties into thinking with his dick, but for the opposite information. You know, like usually we'd say, oh, he's thinking with his penis, but he literally was thinking with his penis. He's like, I had a sit down this morning with my penis.

We chatted it out and he's not into it. He told me to say no. He broke up with me because I kept forgetting that it was bin night. Why is it your responsibility? Also, another one was because I have a seafood allergy. What? Because it's like a fish taco when he eats around? What's the seafood allergy?

No, because he doesn't want to deal with someone going out who has a seafood allergy. And then another one that was written, which I absolutely fucking died, was he broke up with me because i'm vegan i'm going back to like rowing and i don't want to subject you to that okay i just thought the most stupid reason i'd probably break up with someone is if they were a cricketer because like i don't want to watch cricket for four days straight yeah that's why i'm never going to enroll my kids in cricket like it's not happening also trying to like deal with a partner who's really into cricket over the christmas holidays it's just it's like you become a cricket widow is that matt yeah matt's good though because matt gets into something and then

if i'm not into it he doesn't lean hard but if i was into cricket he would lean hard into cricket this reminds me actually of a post that came up on life on cart and it was a meme that said fun fact it's called the ashes because i would rather be cremated than watch cricket for days on end that's me to a team okay the very last one i want to finish this on is he was in the army and he faked a deployment. Turns out he never went anywhere. And the moral of the story is not funny though. It is funny. The moral of the story is if you're going to break up with someone, it's easier to just be honest and go in, be honest, but don't be too honest. Be honest, but don't tell them it's a seafood allergy. Just go in and say, my feelings have changed. You're a great person, but I don't

think this is going to work out. You're a vegan. It's not you. It's me. That's it. It's not you. it's me. It's not you, it's me. That's what you have to do. Don't just disappear. Don't pretend you've gone to war. That's the worst one. I always think a ghosting is better. The war one actually is so problematic, like so morally problematic. Not just like for the girlfriend, but you're pretending to be at war. No, it's worse because he's such a coward. He'll go to war, but he can't break up. Yeah, he's like, he's actually in the army. Like, I'm sorry, but I don't want you protecting my country if you can't even break up with your girlfriend. All right. Well, with all of this out of the way once again bruit i'm so fucking happy that you were back let's get into

the chat with neve well i'm very excited to introduce to you today's guest this is a guest that i i hope you all know i think you'll all know someone i've watched for a very long time and i have tried to get on the podcast for a very long time tv host producer author and the host of catfish the tv show neve welcome finally to life uncut thank you so much for having me neve we start every episode the same way with our interviews we want to know what is the most embarrassing thing that's ever happened to you aha well that's easy such an embarrassing story i still cringe at having to relive it even via retelling it but in 2010 shortly after the documentary catfish premiered at sundance but before it had been released in theaters which

wouldn't happen until later that year. I had been approached by a really big time Hollywood talent manager who had seen the film and felt strongly that I had sort of, I guess, star qualities and should be on screen and approached me and said, would you like to try and pursue a career in Hollywood? Now I said, yes, of course, because why not? Sure. I knew I wasn't an actor, but she mostly worked with actors. So she said, look, spend the next few months, sign up for some classes, see how it feels and let's see what happens so I took an improv class I did a few things anyway long story short she finally says okay look I want to send you on an audition so I got the script the sides as they say and I had no idea what I was doing so she said okay I'm going to set you

up with an appointment with this acting coach who specifically does auditions so I went to this lady's house in Los Angeles and worked with her for an hour or whatever it was and still felt wildly unprepared but figured you know what like whatever I've got nothing to lose okay so you may or may not have seen this film but i was auditioning for the role of the doorman in mr popper's penguins which is a jim carrey film pretty big deal movie and that part little did i know then was like a pretty major sort of you know character actor comedy role right and i because of my manager had sort of bypassed the general audition process and had been sort of fast-tracked to like the callback somehow she was like look i have this new client do me a favor and let him audition so i but

I didn't know any of this really I didn't know what any of this meant I'd never done an audition in my entire life here I am now doing like round three auditions for a pretty important part in like a major Jim Carrey film right so I'm out in Los Angeles I don't I still live in New York at the time so I'm staying in a hotel this is a long story sorry if your listeners have already given up it's great I'm actually hooked so I'm staying in a hotel and I'd become friendly with the concierge there this very lovely lady I think named Barbara I told her I said hey look I'm going to this audition tomorrow and the part is like a doorman at a fancy building like do you think i could borrow one of the bellhop uniforms for this audition because in my mind i think like

you know i've got a i'm not a great actor so at least let me sell the part by looking the part so incredibly she she lets me borrow the jacket the pants and the hat the whole thing and i go to this audition and i remember i get to the audition i change in the bathroom in the hallway and I walk in to do this audition. I was nervous and super unprepared. I went and did it and it was just terrible. I knew in that moment that it was absolutely the worst audition they'd probably ever seen, right?

But I said, okay, thank you. And I walked out and I went to the bathroom to change back into my regular street clothes. I think I just knew that this was probably the only and last audition I'd ever go on. So somehow I felt like at the very least, I owed it to myself to maybe try it again. So I walked back in.

Can you imagine? You're a sucker for punishment. I know. I was like, I'm sorry. That was terrible. I did a horrible job. Can I just have one more opportunity? And God bless them.

They said yes. Oh, so nice. I did as equally, if not worse, a job the second time. But I was sweating and I was just so uncomfortable. And I knew that I was not an actor and not prepared for this and not in any way, shape, or form belonging there. and I didn't get the part if you can believe it were they like thank you for convincing us twice over that you're not the right person for this role what was the reaction or were they very

supportive at the end honestly I think I blacked out I was just my I was so mortified and just so just completely humiliated and embarrassed that I just wanted to get out of there as fast as you couldn't get out of there quick enough but you stayed oh god I yeah well then when I told my agent that I had dressed the part she was mortified she was like what you she's like apparently that's not what you're supposed to do you don't go dressed up I absolutely love that story thank you for sharing you're not an actor now but you are a tv host you do host catfish wildly popular wildly crazy but what some people might not know about you is that there is a reason that catfishing is close to your heart do you want to share that story yeah I mean for those of you

who don't know, I was catfished, as I sort of mentioned in that story about the catfish documentary. So that was about me, made by my brother, during the time in which I developed an online relationship with a girl and her family on the internet, mostly through Facebook, got very close to her, decided to finally go and meet her in Michigan. I was living in New York, only to discover that pretty much everything she and they had told me was not true. And that experience was very eye-opening and sort of heart-opening, mind-opening for me, and fortunately was turned into a beautiful film by my brother. And when that came out, everyone started messaging me and looking to me for some answers and help with their unusual long-distance internet

relationships. And so we thought of a way to help them via making a show about it. And how old were you when that happened? I guess when I got catfished, I was 24, 25, and then it came out a few years later. I mean, for anybody who hasn't seen it, do you remember what that moment was like when you found out that you had been deceived? I mean, there was a period where I think like you were aware that something was amiss, but like when all the pieces of the puzzle came together, what was that like for you? It took a long time because there were so many different players in this sort of relationship. There was the eight-year-old girl who initially reached

out to me because she had seen my dance photography and wanted to use them for subjects of her artwork. Then there was the mom that I then started communicating with. Then I was introduced to the half, the older half sister who I then started flirting with. And then there was the babysitter and the cousin and the art gallery guy. And I mean, there were so many, I think there was like 14 or some people, all who had Facebook pages and all, some of whom had phone numbers and what I would email with. And it was a lot.

So initially, I found out that a few of the small details they told me weren't true, but I never questioned that they were all real. And then I met the young girl, and it was clear that I hadn't been talking to her, and she didn't know who I was in the way that I expected she would. So then I was like, okay, she's real, but I've not talked to her. There were all these sort of pieces that got increasingly more shocking as the truth kind of found its way out. And I was told and still believed up until pretty much the very kind of end that there was still a girl that I'd been talking to, or at least there was still a girl whom that girl had been based off of that I, and it took a while. It was honestly, it wasn't even until after we'd left that we, the full truth came out and I started to really kind of let it set in and understand and process what had just happened. And it took a while. But many of those moments, I found myself speechless because my reality or the sort

of perceived reality that I had of the situation was so wrong that I didn't even know what to react. I was essentially just being faced with new information that I had to intake and kind of react to. My initial reaction was just shock because the actual reality of the people I'd been talking to was surprising and upsetting and confusing. And there was just a lot to take in. And so I mostly just listened and observed in those sort of key moments.

I don't know if this oversimplifies it, but like, did you feel stupid when you found out? Was there a moment where you were like, how did I fall for this? Or was it the level of complexity that even now when you work with people on a day-to-day basis who are experiencing this, was it the level of complexity that makes you go, well, how could I have not fallen for this? From what I've seen over the years, the experience I had was definitely one of the more elaborate detailed and convincing of catfish situations. That said, I also wasn't the only one on sort of my side that was involved. I mean, my brother, our friend Henry, they were aware of it interacting

with these people. My mom spoke to the mom. She was convinced. I had another friend who was weirdly having a sort of flirty relationship with one of the male characters. Like it wasn't just me that was convinced that this was happening. And I did have moments though, months later, when I was going back through the emails and my brother was asking me to sort of provide all these text messages. And I started really kind of thinking about and also retelling the story to other people

that I realized how so many of the things they told me were pretty absurd and outlandish. And this family in this small town did seem to have a pretty wild, adventurous, drama-filled life that looking back at all at once does seem kind of absurd. But in those moments and as it was happening,

it all just kind of made sense and it just was exciting and fun to be a part of so i never really questioned it so were all these characters then because you use the term characters i guess were they all real people but you weren't speaking to him but were they all based off real people around the town and family members that she knew or did she make them up there were pieces of real people in in all of them and some of them were pictures of real people but there was only one person who was the communicator the puppet master and then what happened when you confronted her when you figured it all out? Was it a big immense blow up?

Did you just ignore it, try and move on? What was that like? Well, I think that was the part of the documentary that earned us the appreciation and admiration and respect of viewers, which was that in that moment where we had to sort of gently confront this woman, call her out and encourage her

to finally come clean and tell the truth, we chose to do it in a very calm and compassionate way. We saw right away that her life and her circumstances were difficult and also that you know her relationships in her own life with her husband was not something that we wanted to interfere with but also respected that there would be a need for her to tell the truth to him and we wanted to leave that for her to do and to try not to blow up her life because it was very it was immediately clear to us that this woman had a lot going on and was struggling on her own terms to sort of deal with her circumstances

And the last thing we wanted to do was attack her or, you know, call her out or embarrass her or create more problems in her life. So we did our best to be very gentle and really just let her find the truth and show it to us on her own terms. It's so interesting to me that this experience that you had, which I would think at the time in terms of like the conversation around catfishing, it's something that people experience, but I don't think it was something that the general public were aware of. And I think that the documentary really made people very, very aware that this exists.

It's interesting to me that this has become now such a big part of your story of what you do in the day to day and how you interact with people, especially obviously with the TV show. Now that you have witnessed many different catfish and catfish stories in your time, is there a common thread or common reason as to why people do this? Why people catfish? Yeah. Why do people create a fake account and manipulate someone into a romantic relationship? I mean, it's tough because there are a lot of different motives. I mean, I would say overwhelmingly there are commonalities. Obviously, there are lots of other examples that don't necessarily share these same circumstances.

But for the most part, I think the theme throughout is it'd be oversimplifying it to say hurt. You know, people who are hurt or hurting and are looking for a way to deal with that pain find often that escapism through a false identity or a reimagined version of themselves is a way to deal with that. you know you could kind of break it down into smaller categories which is just you know loneliness isolation insecurity a lot of people who are sort of finding their way to their sexuality and unclear or not sure how comfortable they are yet with that and so they interact with people as a version of themselves that they believe they should be you know it's like there's a lot but i do think if you had to boil down to sort of one thing it would it would be insecurity and discomfort with themselves. There's obviously a level of wanting to feel attention and love from this

fake relationship. That's obviously a reason why people do it because they might not be getting that elsewhere. But do you think also think there's this level of like a power trip and manipulation and people that's almost get off on wanting to control and pull the wool over someone's eyes? Yeah. And I guess like when I asked that question in terms of like motivators, I don't think there is like one silo of a motivator, but I would almost think that potentially people fall into categories. Like maybe there is, maybe financial is another thing, you know, from scamming perspective, I feel like there might be pillars. Yeah. Well, there's all, there's revenge, people who are just trying to get back at someone. We've seen that a bunch on the show.

Obviously I said sort of sexuality is a big one, loneliness. And again, I think also a lot of people just desperately want affection and it's just that simple and they're not getting it in their normal day-to-day lives. So they find it very easy to get on the internet when they create a profile of someone that typically would be appealing to others. Niamh, would you know how many approximately catfishing stories you've investigated? I know that we've done over 200. Okay. So from the 200, what would you say is the more common theme?

People that end up knowing their catfisher and it is a form of revenge and control or people like in your situation that was just a stranger that just wanted to reach out until they found somebody that they could pull in? Yeah, I mean, I would say the vast majority of the stories we've investigated on the show are strangers, people who just sort of meet by accident via the algorithms of the internet and start talking. Obviously, we have done others where it's a more of a wrench thing. But I think that for the most part, and I'm sure that there are a lot of stories that

we haven't filmed that went through the pre-production process where the person who was enacting revenge chose not to come on the show because they you know weren't interested in revealing themselves as a revenge seeking jerk hi it's me i'm the problem it's me how does that work in terms of like the processing and the production of the show so do all parties have to be like willing participants in it because i would assume that someone who's catfishing doesn't want to be on your show and be added as such or is it a case where there is a motivating factor to get them to out themselves? Like, how does that all work? It happens in different ways. People have to be willing participants, at least initially in a sort of very sort of limited capacity. So

what will happen is someone will write in and say, Hey, I've been talking to this person for years, I would really like to meet them. And I feel like coming on the show might be my best or last chance. At which point one of our producers will reach out to that person and say, Hey, this person really wants to meet with you. Is that something you're willing to consider? And if they say yes then we begin the process of filming you know whatever the episode has a chance to happen but it also actually sometimes comes from the other side so sometimes the catfish will write in and say i want to tell the truth i want to come clean i just don't know how to do it i'm too afraid to do it and so what will then happen is their producers will reach out to the

other side of the story and say hey would you want to finally meet this person you've been talking to not revealing anything to them not in any way kind of giving up that person's identity but just saying like we'd like to provide an opportunity for you guys to finally meet on the show so it goes both ways but yeah we never put anyone on the show that doesn't want to be on the show doesn't it seem crazy that someone would go to the i mean catfishing is crazy but crazy to go to the extent of i'm going to manipulate and pretend to be someone else for so long but then you're like all right on a worldwide level i'll out myself like that seems wild well what's crazy to me is that there are so many people who feel like the only way they can safely express themselves or

tell the truth in a way that they feel will effectively communicate where they're at and what they need to say is via sort of a moderated situation like this, because most people want to unburden themselves. They want to tell the truth. They know it's the right thing to do, but they're just too afraid to do it. They don't think they'll say the right thing, or they feel like the person will immediately get so mad and upset and reject them and or yell at them or potentially want to harm them. And so they like the idea of us being there to ensure that the situation is hopefully handled in a way that allows everyone to express themselves in a safe environment. And I'm very proud that we provide that space because I know a lot of other people who might see the show as

an opportunity to bring two people together and encourage a dispute or a blow up. But our goal is always to like keep people calm and respectful and you know open-minded so I think that's why the show continues to be a venue that people look to to do difficult things and say difficult things on has a catfish ever met the catfishy and they've worked it out and they've gotten together yeah we had a great episode where a guy had been catfishing this girl I don't know what specifics he had lied about other than definitely his picture he'd certainly not was not the guy in pictures. But when he met her, he professed his love. She didn't care and was still into him. And they're now together and have a child. That's so crazy to me. I mean, in terms of like the

layer of deception, I mean, you'd have to be someone who came to that relationship with so much empathy for the reason why somebody would do that in the first place, like their lack of confidence, their lack of self-identity, all of these things. But to then sit down and have those conversations, understanding that everything about your relationship was muddied with lies, but still want to pursue an actual physical real life relationship with them. I mean, people are just so crazy and complex in what we will and won't do. I mean, I've been on a lot of single best part of 10 years, Niamh, a lot of online dates, right?

I have definitely been on the dates where you turn up and you're like, well, your picture was definitely from 10 years ago, but I've never been on a date with someone that was a different person, like 40 years older and looked a different person. But there's definitely this idea of everyone's really putting their best foot forward. Right. For sure. Something I wanted to know in terms of where we're at now with social media, with like how accessible, I mean, even just doing this interview via Riverside, it's now so accessible to see the people that we are talking to. We're way more connected.

And I think that that must have some impact in how people catfish. How are people still getting around catfishing? Like how is it still something that's happening when you would think that we've got all the tools to make it so difficult? It's probably one of the questions I get the most, which is lots of people, if not the majority, have smartphones. How are people still getting catfished? There's a lot of different answers to it. One is obviously with the increase in accessibility to video chatting, there's also been an increase in technology that potentially helps catfish, right? So you've got all these filters now. If you're really daring, you can even video chat with someone with a totally different face. Really? You can. I mean,

i'm just saying i i haven't seen that necessarily but like for example we did an episode where someone was catfishing pretending to be this you know like young college football player and that young college football player is on cameo and so they had requested a cameo from him specifically saying you know they wrote the script like hey sarah it's me and like i can't wait to meet like and she got that and she's like oh it must be him like he sent me a personalized video So like, there's all kinds of weird creative ways that catfish can now use technology to their advantage, which, you know, didn't exist previously. But technology aside, I think being the victim of a catfish now is the same as it's been for thousands of years. If you're vulnerable or if there's something in your life that you're looking for in the form of love, flirtation, affection, attention, and someone's providing that to you, the human

brain is capable of ignoring outrageous red flags. If it's getting the sort of dopamine hit that it wants every morning when it gets a text message that says, good morning, beautiful, hope you have a great day. How was your day? Good night, sweet dreams, love you. can't like the heart can do a lot to convince the brain of things if it wants to I think that's the really important message is if you want something in your life you can convince yourself of anything I had a really good friend someone pretty close to me in the last 12 to 18 months a male that was

catfished horrifically for a very long time he thought he was going to marry this person and she ended up dying it got to the point where they couldn't do it anymore so this cat this woman and the character had to die and the character's mother stepped in to let him know that she'd passed away. When I spoke to him about that, because he's a grown man and it's very smart, this is like you said, it's today, we've got video calls, we've got everything. And when I spoke to him about it, I could smell it a mile away

what it was. He still didn't know at that point he'd been catfished and he was telling me the story about how he just lost this person. And as he was saying it, I said to him at the end, I was like, just think about everything we just said. Do things seem to not be adding up at all? because you do have to be really careful. As you know, Niamh, like this is your life.

You can't just go and spring it on someone and say you've been fooled, ha ha. Right. And it wasn't until he put it all together after like all this time and said it all out loud. He's like, oh my God, I've never stood back and looked at it from the outside in. And that was the first time I thought,

wow, it really can happen to anyone. Like we can all be fooled, but as a grown smart man in 2021, it still happened. Well, that's the other thing. So when the majority of people hear catfish stories, you hear it after it's all happened, right? You get the summary, you get the story in one quick five to 10 minute retelling. And of course, when you look at the whole thing, it sounds ridiculous.

But when you're living it every day for months or years at a time, and it's just small, you know, insignificant moments over the course of that long, you lose sight of that. You don't get the perspective. Do you think that there's a sense of victim blaming that goes on with being catfished? I remember we interviewed the girls from the Tinder swindler last year, and it was crazy to me the amount of victim blaming that they had received and theirs was a financial catfishing they knew the person in real life but he wasn't the person who he said he was emotional catfishing too yeah it was everything and it ran so deep into their lives like the

elaborate stories that had been created to be fooled to the point where I think anybody who was in their position would have been fooled but there was still so much shaming that went along with it is this something that you have noticed like how people respond to these catfishing stories I mean, I think, sadly, it falls into the sort of schadenfreude category. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that old German Yiddish word, but essentially it's to take pleasure in other people's misfortune. Everyone likes to think that, you know, it couldn't happen to me. People are always saying, like, how can people be so dumb? And I always tell them, like, first of all, excuse me, that happened to me and I'm not dumb.

Yeah. But we love as an animal, as a species to observe other people's failures and misfortune. And it makes us feel better about ourselves. I'm not someone who takes part in shaming personally, but a lot of people deal with their own insecurities and pain and hurt by putting it on other people. That's not specific to victims of getting catfished. It just goes across the board in any victim situation. is there one particular story in all of your time that is the real standout one that's the

craziest catfishing that you've ever experienced or would you say it was yours uh mine is definitely up there i have to say that you know the episode we did with the gentleman spencer who thought he was dating katie perry was pretty wild what was the outcome with this i mean obviously it wasn't katie perry but like how does he respond to discovering that that's not his reality he He found ways to not accept that, like even when presented with the girl who had been catfishing him saying it was me, he would question her and ask her specific things about their relationship. And when she couldn't remember because it didn't matter to her and it had been years, he was like, see, you know, see, if you if it had been you, you would remember that. And we were like, dude, she doesn't remember the different names of the cats you thought you would buy. like you're crazy he even went so far as to not admit on the show that he had in fact dated other

women over the course of his relationship with katie because he didn't want in the event that katie really saw the episode for her to find out that he hadn't been faithful oh wow over the course of their you know i was like dude people are gonna see this and they're gonna like don't you want them to know that you've act you have been dating other women he's like no no no because if it is katie and she sees this i don't want her to know that like i was like oh my god what do you think though you deal with the exposure moment you deal with the like here it is here's the reveal but what's the not just the aftercare from the show but like what's the long-term impacts that someone can suffer who has been catfished who's been at the bottom of that story i mean i think there's

some sort of embarrassment obviously the internet can be unkind so there's potentially uh some harassment or bullying that can take place. You know, we're very cautious when it comes to who we let on the show. And we want to make sure that people who come on the show are aware of and what they're putting themselves out for and capable of handling, you know, whatever might come their way. And we provide counsel for them during and after filming, should they feel overwhelmed or need someone to talk to. And so I think we hope that the long term effect is growth and that this is an opportunity for them to take a deeper look at themselves. I mean, the sad reality of making the show is that almost everyone, if not everyone that's ever come on the show has never truly had

anyone give them the amount of time and attention that we do in the two or three days that we're with them and ask them the questions that we've asked and sat and given them an opportunity to really think about how they feel and who they are and to try to communicate that. And so I think the experience tends to be very revealing for them, for themselves, because they see that they have a story and that they have worth and that they have complicated feelings that they need to get in touch with and work through. And we encourage them to, you know, be more open and honest with themselves and their friends and family. And so I think it has long term positive effects. I haven't heard of anyone who's been on the show that reacted negatively or had some sort of terrible

post filming experience. You know, and part of the show is that we always check back in with people, you know, sometime later and everyone always seems to be doing better for the most part. So I think it's a good thing. And is that on both sides? Yeah. So when you say you check back in with everyone, you check back in with the person who was the catfish and the person who was affected. Yeah. I mean, the catfish tend to obviously do best because they're so happy they've unburdened themselves. They've, you know, finally told the truth. They're free from the weight of this lie that they've been under. And the hopefuls are, I think, better off as well. We really encourage them to see this as a learning experience that has moved them closer

to finding someone that they really should be with because they now know what to look out for. We say that this could happen to anyone. How can people protect themselves against it? And I think another part of that question as well is, if you are online dating, which everybody is these days, at what point in your online dating relationship do you need to be taking it physical or at least be FaceTiming and having that connection? Brittany, you experienced it with the guy you dated for two years who had a whole double life.

I mean, people can lie to you. People do lie. Okay. Online and offline, you can meet the guy of your dreams, get engaged, move in, have kids, and then find out there's another side of them that they've been hiding from you. So, you know, it's hard to say how can one protect themselves. Now, obviously, when it comes to specifically meeting people on the internet, there are definitely ways that you can do it.

I mean, we employ a lot of tools on the show that are fully available to anyone. You know, we don't have any special services. There are a few websites that we pay a small monthly subscription fee for, but it's affordable. You know, it's not thousands of dollars. It's like $30 a month, right? So if you're talking to someone, and again, this is really where the key sort of moment or pivot comes in, which is if you're talking to someone, you need to have the self-awareness and sort of the bird's eye view at some point,

say, hey, you know what? This guy seems great. This girl seems great. We've been talking for a few weeks. They haven't been available to meet up or they won't FaceTime with me. Like, I don't want to assume they're lying, but I think it's time for me to do a little research

to make sure they're telling the truth. So it's okay to trust someone, but you have to be willing to verify whether they do it for you or you do it for yourself. So run their phone number, search their pictures. Do they have a LinkedIn account? Are they like, if they say they work somewhere, Is there any way that you can verify that?

Do they have a work email? I mean, there's, you know, and yeah, sometimes it's going to feel awkward to say like, hey, you know, I just want to make sure, you know, everything you're telling me is true. Like you're real. But like, if you're feeling like you're not sure, then there's probably a good reason that you're not sure. So you have to just be willing to do that little bit of what a lot of people feel is kind of creepy stalkery stuff.

But like, it's better to do that and be wrong than not do it. and find out months or years later that you've been lied to. Yeah. And just on that, this was something I didn't even know you could do until a couple of years ago, but you can do something called a reverse image search where you search somebody's image. And when I previously, when I was telling you about my friend who was catfished, I did that for him. I said, send me some of these pictures. Let me see what I can find out. And the second that I saw them, and this is something people can look out for. I knew straight away because a lot of the images had been cropped or something had been changed because if you change the dimensions

of certain images you can't search them yeah there's even now better which we've started using almost instead of sort of the traditional image searches there's a website called pim eyes i don't know why but p-i-m eyes where you upload a photo of someone and it actually does a facial sort of recognition scan of that face so it may not find the exact photo but it'll find that person's face in other photos oh wow which is really helpful also scary it's also a little scary but also anyone can do it to anyone okay do you think though with this is there sometimes a level of i shouldn't say ignorance but almost like an unwillingness to know absolutely like there's so much love and affection and you want this to be true so much that the opposite and finding out

is too hard so let's just pretend it doesn't exist for a while and time just fucking gets away from you every relationship i have that's me that's me with the red flags i'm like pretending i can't see that how many people buy lottery tickets every week knowing that they're probably not gonna win yeah or even people who pursue relationships that are like you know on paper incredibly complicated and probably not gonna work out right which she's talking to me but no it's true it's like you know we we sometimes romanticize things that are incredibly complicated as being plausible because we want them to be the exception right or we find that the affection and excitement that we get from this relationship despite its many red flags and

complications is better than not having it you know like look some people gamble some people do drugs some people stay in relationships too long because it's serving them in some way despite the trauma or tax that it has on on their heart or finances or whatever it might be i do want to ask you one last thing a very important question something i've been thinking about for a very long time do you regret throwing the phone into the water no i think i'm constantly looking for more opportunities to do that again for those playing at home this was a scene where neve took the phone the catfish's phone out of the hand and like wildly threw it into the water and it's brilliant but i just i've been sitting on it for a while i'd love to know if you're still happy with that

decision or if you regret it honestly i think that was the best best decision of my life well thank you so much it's been yeah it's been a real honor talking to you you've been on the hit list for a long time so we thank you for your time and for your insight and for fighting the good fight because you are out there wrestling those catfish it's not an easy job they're slippery little suckers and also good luck with you're in the midst of filming the new season i know we have a slippery one on the line right now we're trying to reel her in when's it out uh well this episode that we're filming now will probably come out sometime in like the spring okay well we will stay tuned can't wait so that's your fall right we don't even call it like honestly i don't even

know what fall is is that autumn autumn yeah yeah it's time for stuck and sweet where we highlight the highs and the lows of our week sometimes a big sometimes a little okay i was just saying to Laura, I don't know what my suck is this week. And Laura and Keisha both looked at me and were like, um, maybe the fact that you just left your boyfriend who you're newly in love with. Okay, I like that you're in such a love high that you forgot that your low is the fact

that your boyfriend's not physically in the country. Yeah, because I'm still in a high. That would be my suck. Left my boyfriend. Lol, I still blush when I say boyfriend. I'm like a child. I'm like a child. Left my lover and am jet lagged, severely jet lagged,

which it really hit me hard. And I think it's just because I'm getting older. What's it like for the fact that you're going to only have sex with a vibrator now until you next see him? Do you still say have sex with it? Yeah. Is it? I think I would call it having sex with a vibrator.

What was the question? How do I feel? Yeah. Well, it's not ideal. No, it's not, is it? Well, you buy more vibrators. Can we get a vibrator sponsor here? I think we've got one.

But can we get some vibrators? Can you send us some so that we can at least do a review? Yeah, can you send them out, please? Yeah, so that's my suck. Not ideal. Not ideal. Because we, like I said, we're very compatible. Sucky suck.

But you know when you don't have sex for a while, you forget that you love it. Yeah, but you've had a lot lately, so now you know. No, but that's what I mean. When I went to see him, I forgot how good it was. You do, because your brain just rewires. The addiction's gone. Your diction, it's gone. The addiction is gone.

Sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay, I'm with you. The addiction's gone. But then when you go back and you get it again, It's like when you forget how much you love garlic prawns or something and then you have garlic prawns again and you're like, fuck, and then you eat them every day for a week because you're like, I forgot I love these prawns.

And then you have to have a day off because you feel sick or it hurts. And you smell of garlic so much that no one wants to come near you. So, yeah, that's my suck. Sweet? Sweet is we started radio this week, the new radio show. I'm going to assume that's your sweet as well. Well, this is such a big one. I mean, there's been so much build-up to us doing this radio show.

Haven't done it yet. We're recording this on a Monday morning and radio starts at 3 p.m. today. So fingers crossed we do not fuck it up. Yeah, so the pick up from three to four every day around Australia, Monday to Friday, will be myself, Laura and Mitch Turi, who we do the Saturday show with for the last year, the Saturday radio show. So we're super excited to crack on today.

So that's me. My sweet is definitely that we get this new show and this new place to go and have a dance and throw each other under the bus. I know. It's actually so exciting. It's so exciting that, like, I mean, we won't be doing the Saturday show anymore, but you can listen to us every week, you know, Monday to Friday.

We'll be on the radio on the airwaves or you can listen to us here. We're going to package up. Do both. Not one or the other, Laura. Okay, because we're not going to put it all on the Saturday show. All right, but my suck for the week is, don't take this the wrong way, Britt, but my suck for the week is that Batch and Cut is finished. No, I love that you're back and I wish I could do both,

but it's only because I feel like when Matt and I get to sit down and do podcast records, it's actually real quality time for us. Yeah, I was going to say you probably don't actually spend that much time together laughing and chatting in the day without having a purpose to do it totally and it's like you know it's almost sometimes you spend so much time with one person but you can really when life is busy and you know you've got the kids and you're juggling all these things you can struggle to carve out quality time where you have to sit down and actually just talk to them with no distractions no phones no funnily enough

no tv no shit even though even though we're talking about tv and shitting on each other's yeah i heard about that bad boy do you just hear about bits and pieces and then you're like what have they been talking about on my podcast nothing surprises me because i know you both and i know you both together yes and like i would not bat an eyelid at that yeah ben was like what the hell i was like oh standard as a standard tuesday shitting on the chest there's a mark of a healthy relationship okay so i miss or i guess that that's my suck like i'm gonna miss the fact that we don't get to do that because i really really have enjoyed my chest if it's gonna make you feel better and my sweet for the week is oh i mean i i want to say radio but then i feel like i'm just copying

yours so i'm gonna say something else my sweet for the week is that you were back and we are here behind the mics we have some fucking awesome episodes lined up some really incredible guests some really really amazing topics there's so much happening in 2023 and i feel like finally we are sinking our teeth into it baby and we can't wait to share everything with you I thought you were going to say, finally, we are sinking. And I'm like, yeah, we are sinked. But we're sinking the team. No.

Yeah. I've got my period really bad today. Me too. It is so heavy. We are sinking. Patricia's rolling her eyes. She's probably just listened to this whole episode. We need to cut that.

We know that she's going to edit that out, so it's fine. We would love you guys to leave a review, of course. But what we really want now is to hit the subscribe button on the podcast. Apple Charts, Spotify, wherever you are, hit the subscribe button. Because what that actually means is, and I figured this out the hard way. You'd think I'd know this by now. I've been podcasting for so long. When I flew back, I'd been listening to this true crime podcast, right?

Which one? The Girl That Vanishes. There's like a hundred episodes. Obsessed. It's the wildest missing persons case in Australia. Yeah. So I'm so deep into it. And I thought I have a 14 hour, one leg is 14 hours.

I am going to listen. I'm going to binge listen so much of this because I was like this crucial part. But because I didn't really realize that I hadn't hit subscribe to it. So I'd just been playing the episodes as I went. It means you can't listen when you're offline. So I got on the plane and I couldn't listen to anything. So for 14 hours, I was like, I could have listened to the next 14 episodes. But if you hit subscribe to a podcast, as soon as the episode comes out,

it downloads to the feed to your phone. So it's always there. You can listen to it online. You can listen to it offline, wherever you are. I was just having a whinge to Laura and Keisha about it. And they were like, maybe other people don't know this. Maybe we need to reiterate that this is what can happen. So it does mean if you're in bad service or Wi-Fi or you're traveling on a road trip

and you're out of service in your car and it will just be there as soon as it drops in your little inbox waiting for you. And that is it, guys. We are so happy to be back. We love you all. And I missed you guys so much. You know the drill. Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friends and share the love because

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