Life Uncut - What the Michael Jackson Biopic Doesn't Want You to Remember

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Hey Lifers!  Keeshia is back from Bali. If you go on leave, do you want your work team to miss you? Surely we all come back and want to hear how much we are needed! 😂 Happy belated Mother’s Day! Did you celebrate with your own mum or the mother of your children? Nick Cannon most certainly let his thoughts around mother’s day known. We talk about the very online debate over whether Mother's Day belongs to grandmothers or the mums currently in the trenches.  Then, petty exes. It started with a (fake) story about a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader who hired a marching band to follow her ex to work for nine days straight. We wish it was real. We read your best revenge stories! 60 Minutes Australia released a world exclusive this week called Michael Jackson’s “secret” second family break their silence. Tara Brown sat down with the Cascio family, Michael Jackson's so-called secret second family, who are now speaking out about what they say happened to them. With the Michael biopic breaking box office records, Leaving Neverland quietly pulled from HBO, and the estate worth an estimated $3 billion, we unpack why this conversation is so divisive. We talk about the question of whether a biopic co-produced by the subject's own estate can ever be an honest one. ⚠️ Content note: this episode includes discussion of child sexual abuse allegations. TIMESTAMPS 0:00 Intro3:25 Nick Cannon's Mother's Day 7:10 The Mother's Day debate: is it about grandmothers or mums in the trenches?13:03 Britt's spa getaway 20:20 The (fake) marching band revenge 23:11 Your petty revenge stories: prawns, passports, seagulls and fingernails in the post28:00 60 Minutes Michael Jackson world exclusive29:42 Who are the Cascio family and what are they alleging?31:34 The Michael biopic: box office juggernaut41:20 What the Jackson estate is worth 43:54 Can you separate the art from the artist?45:38 "It's just a money grab" — unpacking the Cascio family's allegations50:52 The parasocial defence of Michael Jackson and what the Epstein files taught us You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Hosted by Britt Hockley & Laura Byrne Produced by Keeshia Pettit Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford & Lachy Pugsley Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. And Keisha is back from Bali with Bali Belly. Here she is. Did you guys miss me? We missed you. We missed you. I mean I've barely seen you. You've been running to the toilet the whole morning. Keisha, is it that bad? No, it's not that bad actually. This is probably the most mild version of it that I've had. But I actually did check in from Bali. So for those that don't know, I was away for all of last week. I took a whole week and one day away from you guys. How luxurious. Who do you think you are? I know it was lovely. Keisha, it was really, really hard without you. Can I just say?

Thank you. We appreciate you. And we've revoked all your future holidays. Because I did listen to the Wednesday episode, which was the first one that I didn't have anything to do with and no part of me wanted anything to fail but I listened to it and I was like I'm really not as needed as I think I am I thought you were about to say it was terrible and I was like fuck guys please don't go back and listen to that episode then don't start there if that's where you started your life uncut journey like sound quality video quality all top-notch I was like maybe I'm not you know I know that we're a small team so it's not like it's not like one of us can be away and no one notices but if you're in a big office or if you're

in a big team and you go on leave like a part of you kind of wants the team to notice right it's like a part of you wants to come back and have that validation field of being like wow we really missed you while we were away don't worry Keisha I looked around all day and I was like where's that short woman gone where is she where's that girl that's always in that scene over there what's her name again I got hand-me-down clothes in the car for her actually that is if you guys listen to last week's just before Keisha went away I was talking about how I've done this big clean out of my life. Like I'm talking bags upon bags upon bags of clothes because I decided that everything from my, not necessarily everything, but most things that were, I guess, my style of

clothing from pre-babies that I've held onto in big, massive plastic tubs, I decided to cleanse my life of them. And so they were all going to go to the Salvos. And instead of going to the Salvos, Keisha went to the other charity. Keisha's so kindly taking them all. Anyway, they're in my car And Keisha today was like, I'll get an Uber home. It's fine. I'll take them all. I do have to laugh, Keisha. You have like, I guess the lifers know us all to have specific character traits and

things like that. But you really have become the person that just goes after everyone else's free stuff. We had someone writing the other day about it. They were like, hey, maybe once Keisha's done with hawking all the free shit, you could send it here, like just as a joke. And I thought, poor Keisha. She's really known as taking all the furniture, all the hand-me-downs. And I'm okay with that stereotype.

I actually met a lifer on the plane. I didn't catch her name. I should have. It was quite late last night and I was editing the entire flight, which for anyone else, maybe you've got an ADHD brain, maybe you don't. If you're able to work on a flight, mate, hyper-focus because it's impossible to have distractions. You've got no Wi-Fi.

You lock in. You know how many jewellery collections I've designed on flights? Because, like, I'll be flying to India and I was like, all right, I guess I've got 14 hours to get this entire collection done. Let's go. it's like i just watch tv like a normal person hey i want to talk about mother's day really quickly firstly happy mother's day to all the mothers out there you laura happy mother's day you're an absolute superstar super mom

and we can come back to you in a second but i do want to talk about nick cannon wait before we go to nick cannon can i say one thing this is one thing that has been so consistently terrible about life on cart we always forget the dates okay we forget the dates we release episodes on a saturday that we pre-recorded, we released Ask Uncut, which we recorded last week. No one thought about the fact that it was Mother's Day. Our Ask Uncut already came out this week. We didn't speak about that. It's Wednesday. Mother's Day's coming, God. No one cares anymore. And because we're now like three days behind, we're just like, oh, la la la, whatever. Here's another Ask Uncut for you all. We live in the present. Someone cheated. Who cares? Anyway, happy Mother's Day to everyone.

I'm very sorry that we are now three days late with telling you that. Yes, but this recording is one day after Mother's Day so that's important anyway I just want to say Nick Cannon I don't know if you guys I know you saw it Laura but lifers he put out this post if you don't know Nick Cannon's situation he used to be married to Mariah Carey he's a bit of a crazy cat anyway he's in these really open relationships he's always with two to three people at a time he's currently one of his partners is Brie from Selling Sunset. But the guy has 12 kids with six different women, right? He lives in a house with a few of the girlfriends and it's just, it's almost become his normal. It's not shocking to anyone anymore. So he's got 12 kids with six women. You would think this guy

is a multimillionaire. You think he would be showing up for these mothers that are doing way more than he's ever done. But this is what he said about Mother's Day. I'm spending time with my mother it's mother's day it's not baby mama's day what a slap in the face to those six women I just think he's taken the easy route he's like well if I just focus clearly he's got 12 kids I don't think that anyone would classify that as the easy route Keish I meant as a pun for sex it was a pun Laura sex you in sorry guys I'm very tired I don't know what sex is anymore. What's that?

No, what I was going to say is he's taken the easy route in terms of like he only needs to prioritize one mother. If he was to focus on all the baby mothers, that's like way too many. That's way too many flowers and breakfast in beds and all of that shit. He's got to make all these frames with the kids and cards. And he's like, I'm done with the popcorn carts. I'm just going to make one for my own mummy. And that's what he does.

Bless him. Bless his little soul. Bless his man child soul. No, he still could have released a statement that said happy Mother's Day to all my baby mamas not fuck you baby mamas it's not about you like that's what he did he couldn't even write a statement you're right on instagram you can now have 20 pictures in a carousel he could fit all of them in there and you know what instagram has just released a new feature where you can have a new caption if you put a dump of carousels of 20 photos you can write a caption for each 20 pictures

Did you guys know that? No, I didn't. I mean, I don't have enough time. I can't be bothered. I struggle to think of one caption. Yeah, that just seems like so much more work that I'm not interested in knowing about. It's a recent update. I'm going to stop anyone from doing it now. I did try it and I deleted it because I thought when you, because when I went to post a 20 frame dump, as I do, it was like, do you want to try writing a new caption for each photo, like a description? and so I thought yeah that's cool and I thought you would swipe and as you swipe a new sort of description or caption would pop up on each one but it doesn't it just comes up in like it's almost just like writing one caption and putting paragraphs between them do you know what

I mean it's like it didn't hit how I thought it would hit so don't do it I get that yeah okay all right well thank you for that little update back to Nick Cannon for two seconds I have seen a bit more of a trend that's been happening this Mother's Day and it definitely it's something we spoke about last year but it has become more of a conversation and I do think that this Nick Cannon thing kind of like segues to it there's been so many Instagram posts around like sorry to break it to you grandmothers it's Mother's Day is not about grandparents it's about mothers that have small children and I just don't know I mean I get it I get this feeling of like you're in the trenches and so therefore you shouldn't be the one responsible for organizing Mother's Day for

everyone else like if you're in the trenches with your own little children then you should probably get a bit of a break when it comes to being the organizer of the Mother's Day event but I kind of don't like it that it's turned into this thing of like pitting I guess the grandparent generation and that generation of mothers against new mothers now I don't know it just feels like unnecessarily I don't want to say toxic but like it feels as though we have to be in a fight about everything catty yeah I remember you guys spoke about this on Ask Uncut it must be a couple of months ago but I remember the comments on it being really like often we will talk about things and people have different opinions but this one was a real even split it was like 50% of people said no it

is meant to be about your mother and the other 50% were really like no it's about the person who's doing it the most parenting at that time and who needs a little bit of praise and a bit of like you know encouragement and a bit of adoration but it was one of the most controversial and evenly split questions you guys have ever done I actually hate that conversation I don't have children we know that so I can't put myself I'm not in the trenches but as an adult your mom is still your mom and she's still been your mom your entire life like that shouldn't be taken away from her because you have had a child you can all find a way to celebrate together but it's not like I'm more of a mom than you are and moms that have four and five kids shouldn't be celebrated more than a

mom that has one kid the idea is that we're just grateful for those people in our family that have been showing up for us our whole life you know I hate this idea of like oh you're in the next generation you're done it's not about you anymore do you know what I think it is though and this is what I saw the conversation unfolding it's not so much about not celebrating grandparents or celebrating your own mums it's about not being the one to carry the load of the organization and I understand that like if you've got I mean I speak from my experience we've got like two kids that are five and seven and then I've got a baby you know I've got three kids life is busy it's not a very enjoyable Mother's Day if I'm the one that's also then doing all the planning for the Mother's

and you know like obviously Matt and the kids they spoiled me and it was really really sweet but when it came to doing the lunch that we did you know Alicia my sister she's the one who called up the venues and like booked everything and planned it and I was the one that did all the running around and the organizing like we are the ones who did it but we're also the ones with the little kids so I do understand why it does piss some people off and there's some big opinions about it online at the moment that said I had a wonderful Mother's Day and I love my mom and I love my mother-in-law and everyone loves everyone. So don't come for me. Okay. It also brings up the question that we talk about every year, but I, I guess Ben unintentionally gave me a mother's day,

but for, for Delilah, yes, I'm a dog mom, but breakfast in bed. And I saw you post about it as well, Laura. So I had breakfast in bed. I had pancakes in bed. I love it. I'm not against breakfast in bed, but I know you hate it. I don't hate it. No, no, no. Sorry. I don't want anyone to think or to misconstrue that I will happily eat breakfast in bed if I'm alone and left alone I don't want to eat breakfast in bed with three children jumping on the bed with like a dog there at the side and three kids making my coffee and my eggs go and then the eggs are in the bed because the kids wanted to also have Nutri-Grain and like that's not enjoyable I don't want to spend 45 minutes trying to navigate the kids from fucking turfing their food in my bed what Britt's referring

into I put this question up on my Instagram and I was like mums are we actually enjoying the breakfast like are we lying to our families just to keep the peace because when a whole bag full of eggs got brought to me at breakfast time I was like not for me guys let's go to the table not for me I'm not even going to pretend this year like I'm enjoying this because it's just not enjoyable and we all sat at the table we had a lovely time and once again Keish it was one of those questions it's very split down the middle well I mean I'm just kind of thinking about the recent chat about Easter this chat about Mother's Day I hate everything I feel like you're just not enjoying the family and I hate group chats too bah humbug Laura really is the Grinch isn't she

she hit 40 and she's like everyone fuck off no do you know what it is I actually am not the Grinch I just have a big empty bucket of fucks I don't care anymore that's what it is here it is everyone here's my empty bucket climb on in clamber inside the bucket of fucks like I would have pretended before and I would have been like yeah everyone let's go sweetie get on the bed and we can all eat a big breakfast in my linen sheets which I'll definitely have to wash after you put your fucking tomato sauce in my bed like I would have been agreeable to it because it would have made everyone else happy and now I realize actually for a tiny little inconvenience of the kids going oh I wanted to eat in your bed mom and then they're like okay we can eat at the table instead

for that tiny little inconvenience it's actually just better for me so I'm not trying to be a killjoy to everyone else I'm just trying to like make my life easier and also I would like to say my word of the year 2026 if you guys remember it was efficiency and I think I'm just enacting the efficiency in all aspects of my life welcome to my rant I feel like Ben and I is the opposite so I'm the one that's like baby can you bring me my breakfast in bed and Ben's like get up you're not a child you can't eat in our bed and I was like I Ben I can eat in our bed I'm a grown woman like what's going to happen and that was the that was the week that I spilled the coffee all through the bed had to change the sheets but it was exactly the same he just looked at me like I told you so

and I was like okay fair call fair call I won't eat in bed anymore but I'm about it but hey I went on a little getaway a little one night getaway with Ben last night and this was just a really weird thing tell me if you think this is weird so we chose the weather here actually wasn't that great it was a bit rainy and gross so we chose to go on this really last minute spa getaway like somewhere where we could go and sauna and relax and have all the bits and pieces. And you know, they do like, you know, you can get pools that spurt water on your back and it's supposed to be massaging and all this stuff. Aren't those things just like the kids spitting water on your back as they're jumping in on you? Isn't that like the therapeutic spa day that people go to?

That's what you get. It's your dream mother's day. Yeah. Ours was just like a great big pool and there was 17 children spitting water at each other. And I was like, oh, this is relaxing. no this is I just thought this was weird I've never experienced it but it did take me back to my childhood we walked in and the lady was like showing us around and there was just like your very standard there was a sauna and whatever else and she said oh we have a new installation you guys are gonna love it and I was like oh great like this was not cheap anyway she walks us over to these this wall and they had these really big they just looked like beds lined up and I was like oh, what is this? Is this going to be a massage bed? And she's like, this is brand new going on

and on about it. And I was like, okay, great. So we lay on it and she's looking at us and I was like, what does it do? And she's like, it's a waterbed. That's it. I was like, what do you mean? And does it massage you? And she's like, no, you just lay on it. I went to this fancy spa to lay on a waterbed and that's all we did. Like we laid there and I looked at Ben and she was watching us And we just looked there and held hands next to each other. And I was like, this is the fucking weirdest thing I have ever experienced. But it took, I was like, okay, so this must be a new thing. Maybe they didn't have waterbeds in Europe growing up.

But when I was, I was thinking back to like my childhood. Was there a moment where you collectively decided to just hold hands on the waterbed? It was a visual image of this woman being like, you should really enjoy this. This is great. And so you just hold hands in unison. Yeah, it was. And the beds, it wasn't a big bed. Like they were individual.

so there was a gap in between us but we wanted to be romantic so we both had our waterbed and just held hands in the middle and that was it but did you guys have a waterbed growing up like for our family a waterbed was like I just thought we were so rich and fancy my mum and dad had one and they slept in this thing every night and my brothers had one the girls didn't get it but I remember I remember as a kid thinking it was really cool but now as an adult my parents for like 10 years slept in a waterbed so every time one of them would roll over the whole bed would like blobble up and down and I'm like what was wrong with us like why did we it was the early 90s no it was the stranglehold of the waterbed like I remember it I remember going to a friend's

house we didn't have one my mom wouldn't let us get one I remember going to a friend's house and she had one and I was like so deeply jealous of how cool she was because she had a waterbed but then and like this was a friend whose house I'd go to all the time and then one night I was on the waterbed and I was like I think there's a hole but I don't want anyone to think I did the hole so I just like slept on the other side and by the morning there was this big patch on the mattress like not on the mattress on the top sheet and I was like they're gonna think I missed the bed I was like horrified and scarred by the waterbed but yeah I remember them people who had them actually were a little bit better than everyone else oh thank you I always do think

it's one of those fashion trends that you know how they say that everything's slickly cool and it all comes back if you hold onto it long enough. Imagine the people who had waterbeds back in like early 2000 and they've just been holding onto that. Do you reckon they replaced the water? Hope so. I would love to know, is anyone, is there anyone out there who still has a waterbed? Like do you exist? Someone's going to be like, I need it for my lumbar support. It can't be good for, like it cannot be orthopedic. It cannot be good for you. But also you used to have to, I remember boat it was a whole event on like every couple of Sundays you'd change the water so like you would take my dad would take the fly screen out of the window put the hose in a hose put in one of your

kids would have to hold it into the waterbed and you would siphon the water out so he would suck it up the hose put it out into the yard and then you would refill the waterbed and it was like every third Sunday or something it was insane you go yes we are rich and I was like I fucking made it like I can't wait to go up and tell everyone I had a waterbed but one other thing happened this is I guess my accidentally unfiltered it was they have a gym there it was quite a nice gym and this is just gross it's actually not that embarrassing but I was as you guys know I've said it many times but I am in my press on nail era still anyway would I was doing weights and there was a lady next to me it was like it was quite a posh place but she was very like well

to do she looked great and I was doing these weights and I lifted the dumbbell and one of my nails flung off like my nail has been stuck on my hand flung off and literally hit her in the chest like because she was right next to me facing me and my fucking nail hit her and she saw it and looked at me and I looked at her and we didn't say excuse me can I have that back please yes I need to stick it on Brittany whips out the super glue out of her back leggings and she's like I need to reattach it. Don't lose it. You joke.

I carry glue with me everywhere. I know. I'm not joking. That was just a factual statement, everyone. She looked at me in absolute disgust and did not say anything, and we both looked to the ground, to the nail. I looked back up at her, just bent down and picked up the nail, put it in my pocket and kept going.

I was like, fuck my actual life. You guys know, like, I'm not a nail galley. Like, I'm not. I'm not a pedicure galley I'm not a nail galley I don't have enough hours in the week to go and do things that require like consistent servicing like I get my hair done once a year that's it and it's usually like a chop back up to being a bob it's starting to give me I guess a little bit of grief because I have more and more grays coming through now so I'm at a tipping point where I don't know what I'm gonna do with my hair I'm just gonna like allow myself to go like full grays but I went

and got biap recently and I'm like a born again biap galley this is my second time I didn't notice that you had it in your stories yeah build and nail here we are so I'm always doing like Tony May stories like with rings and stuff so it's a tax deductible experience it is it is you've spoken about on life uncut now so it's also I realized recently when I was doing like a story for a ring I was like my nails are so revolting that it's actually offensive to hold up this fancy ring and be like this ring's four thousand dollars here's my nails like with shit underneath them so anyway I went and got them done and then I read that they it's been banned in like Europe because it causes cancer so here I am now at a fork in the road trying to decide whether cancer

is worth it so like who knows okay but my nails look amazing that's a terrible joke sorry that's Laura's vibe. Something's going to get us if it's not the plastics, the bi-ab. Something that got thrown around in our group chat this week. Now, it was an Instagram post and it turns out that it's not true. And part of me is really sad about it because it was really funny. We love a news story. We don't care if it's real. Yeah, I know. Okay. So this is the post. It says, ex-Dallas Cowboy cheerleader arrested after hiring a marching band to follow her ex-boyfriend to work for nine straight days which honestly I read that and I was like men are out there doing some pretty horrifying things and if that's all she's doing is sending

a marching band after her ex really does she need to be arrested for that she's keeping people employed I was really upset that this was fake I think it's brilliant but can you imagine it does feel innocent right you're like oh it's just a marching band sorry if you were followed like the Pied Piper for 14 days straight with a marching band and then they sat outside your office and played, you'd be pissed too. I agree. I agree.

And you know that they were playing, they were playing apparently the song Love Stinks over and over. So it's just the one and only song for nine days straight. It's also a fake story. They weren't playing that. Do you guys remember this real one? It was on like a current affair or something. It was a long time ago and I could be getting the details wrong.

As soon as I say it, I know that most people will be like, I know exactly what you're talking about. someone in australia stitched up their ex by putting an ad on like gumtree or something for people to call the phone number with like an armageddon impersonation do you remember this i don't at all is it armageddon i need to google it was the sound if i if i can find it which i think i will be able to i'll put it in here so you can listen to it on the podcast it was the best piece of content that i think has ever come out of australia do you know what i've got one for you if you're a disgruntled because of the way that

your ex treated you do the same thing but make it a chewbacker impersonation imagine getting chewbacker calls every day here we go i've got the nine news but it has nearly 500 000 views on it a three-year relationship has turned sour can's mom jessica dumping her cheating boyfriend as payback he's plastered her phone number around town advertising a chewbacca roaring competition Promising $100 prize for the best one. Well, I'm getting phone calls at really strange hours of the night, about 1 o'clock until 4 o'clock. I thought it was quite funny, actually.

I love it. Oh, it's Chewbacca. So funny. The Dallas one, obviously we found out that that wasn't true. There's no marching band. But it did get me thinking about petty exes and petty things that you've done for your own revenge stories. And I have some very, very funny ones that you guys wrote in.

the lifers some of them are truly questionable but i'm going to share them with you in a second however there was another woman who has been arrested this one is legitimate now a 32 year old toronto woman identified as britney coppersmith whitefield wow pleaded guilty to criminal harassment in what has been described as canada's first door dash psychological warfare case wait for it over After an eight-month period, Brittany sent 1,847 DoorDash orders to her ex of a single lemon. She sent 1,847 individual lemons over an eight-month period to a man that she despised.

Well, your ex gives you lemons. Yeah, but also that's just costing her. Over $5,500 she spent. But, I mean, is that really harassment to open the door and get one lemon a day? Fine. Who cares? Imagine the lemonade he can make.

but for her that's like five and a half grand sorry wait for it the recipient claimed to cause sustained citrus-based distress that's not real it is with deliveries arriving at odd hours including during a job interview and also during a hospital visit how would he have known he was at the hospital anyway sorry maybe they delivered it to the hospital maybe she really got arrested well yeah she got arrested to be fair okay like i know we shouldn't laugh because it is actually harassment. Like if someone's going to send you thousands of lemons because they're disgruntled ex, you would feel like they were being stalked. But I mean, it's really the mildest version of what she could have done. They're pretty expensive nowadays. There's a cost of living crisis. Send

me avocados. Yeah, I'm something I can use. Maybe he really liked lemons. Look, okay. I did do a call out. I've got so many from you guys. Lots of like the usual suspects, you know, like whenever you do a call out for petty revenges, there's always some people who were like, I cleaned up the skitties in the toilet with his toothbrush like don't do that that's not nice okay so I'm going to read a couple to you this one is from someone who is actually very famous and should not be sending things to me about what she did to her ex she cheated on me and she was living overseas at the time her car was in my garage and her family was supposed to be coming to get it now it took them two months to come and get the car out of my garage so I put salami prawns and

banana all under her car seat she was an absolute pig anyway and her family probably should have known. It goes on. This one's the same as the toilet one. Guys, you can't do things to people's toothbrushes, but he left his fancy toothbrush at my house. So I peed on it and then I gave it back to him. Remember that happened? Was it Married at First Sight or The Bachelor? One of the dating shows. They did the toothbrush. Yeah, you can't do that, man. You just can't. That's how people get pink eye. But what you can do is you can sign your ex up to a bunch of telemarketing Bible studies if you like to this one sorry I got one let me read this one I'm so ashamed but I was really angry and I cut my fingernails which were super long at the time and I posted them to him

what like what that what that's Brit's next step of press on nails my old I send my old nails no I'll be there'll be no revenge on my end thank you very much this is so funny I signed him up to every porn site with his work email number and also his work address so she just really gave him one took all of his good clothes to the op shop right before he was going on a trip to meet a new girlfriend another person got all of his clothes and listed them all on ebay so he had to buy them back oh that's smart make a profit money he owned a boat and i covered it in fresh bread so there was a thousand birds swarming and shitting all over it okay see that that i paid that's good That is also no evidence because they'll consume it all.

Imagine walking out and there's just a thousand fucking seagulls shooting all over the inside of your boat. You'd be pretty sad about that. This one person did set. So her ex was going on a trip after he broke up with her. He cheated on her. Then he had the audacity to break up with her. And then he booked a boy's trip to Japan.

And so she set his passport on fire. That actually wasn't mine. She did it. I just stole his passport. I was like, every time you tell the passport story, it's a bit more elaborate. it and I'm like wait what did you do no I didn't really I just I forged his signature it was it you guys know the story it's so old now no one cares no one cares about the truth it's 10 year statutory limitation you can't sue me now also not a thing also I love listening to these revenge

stories I'm not a revenge girly I don't get these people like I just think anyone listening right now if you're going to go through something the best revenge is just moving on being happy not giving a fuck not losing your peace be successful boring don't spend five grand of your money and your time and energy every day to send a lemon to someone's house that's my message or you could report him to crime stoppers this is a real change of pace to the start of this episode but it's something that you might've seen on Sunday night. Now it was a 60 Minutes Australia did a world exclusive look at Michael Jackson. It was called Michael Jackson's Secret Second Family Break Their Silence. Now this was hosted by Tara Brown and she spoke to the members, the children of the

Casio family who were known at the time and throughout Michael Jackson's life as his secret second family. If you haven't seen this, it's the most horrifying piece of TV that I've watched in a long time. And I want to be really careful with this because I put something up on my stories and the reaction was so evidently split between people who think that Michael Jackson is the victim of framing of sexual abuse allegations that were completely unfounded and untrue. And then there are also people who very much believe that he was a perpetrator as much as he may have experienced horrific things in his own life. He was also a perpetrator of sexual assault. I want to say that because I understand that it is a very divisive conversation and we are not here

today to come to a conclusion as to whether we think that Michael Jackson did any of the things that he's been accused of but what we do want to talk about is this 60 minute episode and also talk about how it relates to the new movie Michael that has just come out the absolute blockbuster that has just come out now to give you a little bit of context about this so the Casio family they are an Italian family that Michael befriended when the children were very, very young. There's five kids in the family. Only four of them were a part of the 60 minute interview. And that's because Frank, who is one of the older brothers, he has his own legal battle currently happening with the Michael estate. Now the children's name, they're all adults now. It's Eddie, Dominic, Marie-Nicole

and Aldo. These adults have all individually and also collectively claimed that they were groomed by Michael Jackson. They were sexually abused over a 25-year period. And they were also originally the family that when the first round of abuse allegations came out back in the 90s, they were the family that stood by Michael Jackson and denied everything and said that, you know, they were character witnesses for what an incredible person he was. It wasn't until after Leaving Neverland, the documentary came out, which was in 2019, that the members of the Casio family recognised the sexual abuse that they say that they experienced, they recognised that it was systemic

and something that had happened and been experienced by other children and they came forward as adults and said this happened to us too. I really, really want you guys to go and watch this 60-minute documentary so that you do understand what we're talking about because I do think that for a lot of people who are saying that it's just a money grab and its extortion, they give a lot of reasons as to why their narrative has changed and why they've gone from being the family that completely supported and backed him to wanting to share their story and what they believe to be true. The reason they're talking about it now, it is because

Michael, this biopic has been an absolute juggernaut and is predicted to be one of the biggest films of all time, not just a biography, but of all time. It's been an Oppenheimer in the opening weekend. And to date it has crossed 443.8 million USD worldwide. Like that is astronomical. Now, when you look at Rotten Tomatoes, and I think this is really important. When you look at Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds 97% audience approval rating, but only a 38% critical score. So what people are saying is, okay, the critics who actually get paid to go and look at a movie and report on it are saying it's not that great, it's probably not that true, and there are things

that have been omitted, but the audience is saying, well, we still love it. Now, the reason the Casio family has come out again is because there are a lot of accusations and a lot of Michael's story that has been omitted from this biopic, and when you think of how much history Michael has and allegations has against him, you would think when you were reporting on somebody's story,

this would be included, but nothing has been included it has been absolutely wiped from the biopic. On top of that, the original Leaving Neverland, which Laura was just referencing, has also been wiped from HBO. So not only have they released this really glossy tell-all of Michael's story that makes him look like this incredible person with this incredible life, any other history and allegations has been wiped against him. And I think that's a really powerful statement and a really powerful question about what does that say about Hollywood if simultaneously we can wipe allegations and promote a biopic that is just making somebody look phenomenal and omitting, let's just say, call it what it is, the elephant

in the room, multiple allegations of sexual assault against children. I haven't seen the film. I'm not going to go and see the film. That's my own personal decision. From everything that I read about this, the main character being Michael is actually played by his nephew and the director, they actually shot a lot of scenes that did touch on some of the abuse i think that they recorded basically uh scenes up until around about 1995 and that was a couple of years after the first allegations came out and they later had to remove them from the film because of a settlement that they had made back in 1994 with someone called jordan chandler now he was one of the first accusers and he was paid out $23 million by the Michael Jackson estate. And so because of that

settlement, it turns out there was a clause. I'm going to get the exact wording of it for you. Well, the clause in it was something to do with not being able to turn anything to do with the story around sexual assault allegations into a movie. And I did a deep dive in it as well. And it's very unclear if that is to protect Jordan Chandler and he has been the one who has put that into the contract or if it's been enacted by Michael's estate and they're the ones that have said this can never be turned into a movie or turned into something that is like recounted I guess the actual wording was that he was barred from the depiction or mention of him in any movie so it's very questionable decision to go okay you're going to make a movie about this person

who has so many controversies surrounding them who is arguably the greatest entertainer that the world has ever known and we're going to stop it just before any of the muddy shit happens like it's very strange to me that they would continue with the production of that film and not think that people are going to raise their eyebrows about it well i guess the thing is is like biopics function i guess less as truth-telling and more as reputational rehabilitation in this instance and the fact that it ends in 1980 is very telling because it does allow them to frame him all throughout his childhood as being like the victim of some really awful things that happened to Michael. Like no one's disputing that he had a really, really challenging childhood

and that it also framed his psychological state into adulthood. But that's also not to say that two truths can't be real at the same time. Yes, he may have experienced all of these things. He could also be a perpetrator. The big thing about this and what I noticed in the DMs from people is that people are so they have so much conviction either way people are either like yes he is a sex offender yes he did take advantage of these children and on the flip side people are like it has absolutely been framed this is complete conspiracy theory stuff these are people who are after their money and I guess to both of these things and what we do know is fact yes he was never found guilty he's never been criminally convicted of the allegations that were brought

against him. But we also know how incredibly hard it is for a survivor of child sexual assault to prove beyond reasonable doubt that this actually happened to them. It is very, very, very challenging. The thing that we cannot, I guess, contest is the fact that there have been so many people that have come forward with so many individual allegations. There is eight individual people that have brought allegations against Michael Estate now. There's also so many ex-workers. there's been a lot of settlements that have been made like this is continued and substantiated claims that have happened over a very very long period of time but the thing is that we can't deny is that regardless of whether he did or didn't do it the reality is is that he did have

very inappropriate and very questionable relationships with young children young children who were not his relatives who he did share a bed with and I guess like it leaves open that in by today's standard and by today's metric if we found out that any superstar megastar was sharing a bed with a nine-year-old boy of a family that he had nothing to do of visiting them in the night time like you would be at least questioning it you would at least have alarm bells and it's surprising to me that that a lot of the fandom are able to completely dismiss it as though it could ever be a possibility like how dare you accuse something of such a ridiculous possibility and And I'm like, I get that we want to protect the people that we think are inspirational

and incredible and everything else. And yes, it could be this absolute conspiracy takedown, but it's still fucking weird that a man in his thirties to forties is sharing a bed with a nine-year-old boy. Let's all agree on that. And if we can agree that it's weird, then surely we can at least entertain that he might be capable of doing something that is perverted. I don't know how anyone can watch the interview with Tara Brown on 60 Minutes and not sit there with goosebumps and saying that every single thing about this is wrong. In the interview,

they show a lot of photos. They're not only recounting their stories, but there is so much video footage and so many photos taken because I guess at that point, he's the biggest superstar in the world, right? Not only were they just taking a lot of home videos and things, but he was documenting a lot of his life. There are photos where there's one in particular where I thought, who has taken that photo and how do they think it's okay? The children are sitting on his lap, often with no shirts on, like often one of them is topless. Michael is always holding them inappropriately, like they're on his lap, his hands are around them on their chest, wherever they are. I sat there and said to Ben, who took that photo? Because somebody is in that room that

can see that something is not right. And just like you said, Laura, the moments where the family would say things like they would all have these get togethers. Michael moved in with them for three months, which is weird in itself, right? Like he's the wealthiest man in the world. He moved in with the Casio family who was just a normal Italian family. He moved in with them for three months. He would spend all his time, not with the adults, upstairs with the children in their rooms. There's no one that can think that this is okay. The man built Neverland. The man built a private children's play area. If somebody did that now, or somebody that wasn't one of the most powerful and well-respected

artists in the world, if somebody did that now, you would say, that's fucking creepy and that's not okay. I'm not going to leave my children alone with him. Yet we're excusing it purely because he was the most powerful and one of the most talented artists of the world. It's not just the fact that we're looking at it with like a modern lens. You know, a lot of the people, like you said, Laura, they say, well, he was never found guilty. You know, some people have even said he was proven innocent and the FBI found nothing in

their investigation and blah, blah, blah. I looked through some of the articles that were written at the time in 2005, where there actually was a criminal prosecution of him. And it was a jury of 12 people. And there were comments made. There was this one that really stood out to me that I just thought, wow, the way that we look at victims, especially children of sexual abuse and abuse in general has really evolved and I'm really glad about that is that she was talking about how they saw the police interview with the boy I think he was a teenager and he was saying you know Michael kissed me on the lips and she said and he smirked in it and what person smirks talking about that if they didn't actually want that to happen to them and I just thought wow like wow this was

only 20 years ago but holy shit we view things differently now like now we go that's a child and a child can't consent, regardless of whether they want that to be happening or not. You know, like something that I'm really glad about is that our understandings of what, you know, the reactions of people who are abused and who are victims, you know, no one's a perfect victim and no one's going to perform in a way that makes us think that they were traumatized enough. Like I'm glad that modern society has a different lens on that, but it's so crazy to me that that was the standard of which they held teenagers and children to. Yeah, but even that, I mean, like we know by today's metric, it is so hard to prove

beyond reasonable doubt that sexual assault in children have happened. It's like, where is the evidence, especially when people are coming forward 10 years or 15 years later and saying this happened to me in childhood? It's so hard to prove. That's by today's standard. That's by a standard of society that tries to believe victims more. This is by the standard of the early 2000s, which was completely just a different kettle of fish. One thing that I think is so important to this whole conversation is what the Jackson

estate is. And it is a business. It is a billion, billion, billion dollar business. It is currently valued somewhere around 3 billion, $3.5 billion. It's not exactly known how much, but every year they estimate that it makes between a hundred to $115 million a year. Now this is off all the music rights, but it's also of things like Jackson, the musical. It's also off Michael, this movie. Like this is how the Jackson estate continues to make and be one of the biggest and most profitable celebrity estates in history. The reality is, is what this Michael movie does and the biopic is that it keeps Michael relevant to a younger audience. And by minimizing the voices and the controversy and all the things that have, I guess, shrouded his life at the end

of his life in a lot of darkness and a lot of questions around his integrity and his intent as a person by erasing that it means that the new audiences aren't able to make educated decisions around whether they would or wouldn't consume his music and I say this because Michael is now trending all across TikTok like the younger generation are listening to all his music again and of course his music is incredible but he can also make incredible music and be held to some sort of criticism by the numerous allegations that have come forward and the estate it is within the state's best interest to minimize and reduce this as much as possible. Hence why there have been so many multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi, multi million dollar settlements that come with

very strict NDAs that have been signed by the estate and all of the alleges that have come forward. I think the interesting question here is when a $200 million film is co-produced by the subject's estate, it's executive produced by the subject's son. The subject is depicted by his own nephew, can it really be an unbiased biography or is it just an expensive PR stunt because I don't believe it can be unbiased. The whole estate has an agenda which they have proven and off your point there, Laura, I would be surprised

if you walked down the street and interviewed a bunch of the younger generation on Michael Jackson's history, I would be surprised if a lot of them even know about the accusations and I say that because it's a generation where it wasn't spoken about. it has now, thanks to Michael Jackson's estate, been wiped from the internet. I would say half of them are just appreciating his music without even knowing the history. Do you know what I think is interesting though? And I don't even know where I land on this.

You know, the question of, can you separate the art from the artist? It comes up a lot, especially when people die. To me, I'm like, okay, so I have a problem with the fact that I don't want to be contributing to something that would make Michael Jackson money because I have issues with his behavior but he's dead so like do I have a problem with his daughter making money or his sons making money from his legacy like I don't have as much of a moral objection to the estate profiting as what I do to him profiting do you know what it is I don't think it's so much about it being just a money thing I think it's about immortalizing someone and who they are as a person and like it goes beyond the artistic or the emotional expression it becomes

this commercial asset and so making him seem godlike and untouchable and like this incredible creative yet tortured musician negates the possibility that he may also have been a sex offender to children right like those things are completely negated now and I guess like for me if you want to go and watch the movie go and watch the movie like I'm not against it but I do think it's interesting how we can view things with such a black and white lens and how we can have allowances for things or say like that absolutely didn't happen because of X, Y, Z, when there is actually no proof, we don't know. And we're probably never going to know hence why it's been a debate that has unfolded for the past 20 years. But one thing that I think is really

interesting is people accusing the Cassius family of a money grab and saying, well, really convenient timing now, isn't it? That you've come forward now that the Michael movie's on, you've come forward to get your money. And that was the overarching comment that people were making my DMs. They were like, Laura, how can you not see that this Cassius family are trying to do a last dash money grab from the estate? And to that, I would say a couple of things. Firstly, this is a family by all accounts was Michael's second family who loved him, who nurtured him, who brought him into their home, who treated him like a son. I'm sure they financially benefited from the relationship. I'm sure there were gifts. One of the children was nine years old, a little boy,

and he went touring and slept in Michael's bed, like alarm bells may be ringing, but I'm sure they all mutually benefited from this relationship up until a point. The reality is, is that this family have already been paid $16 million. If you look into it. So after Leaving Neverland came out, the documentary, they came forward privately to the estate and they said, this happened to us. And they told the estate what Michael had done or what their, you know, believed or perceived allegations were. And the estate settled. They changed the name of it. It wasn't a settlement around sexual assault. It was like family something or other. So it was like wording that made it seem like it was money that they're entitled to because of being a family

relation. And they paid it out consecutively over many years. So they've received $16 million over the course of the last X amount of years. But something I found really interesting is that Michael's estate paid one last big top up amount of money that happened right before the biopic came out. The optics of it is not good, right? So they've come out and said, because of the way in which he's been portrayed as being a hero and being so sympathized with and empathized with in this biopic, the way in which this movie has changed, fundamentally changed the legacy of how people remember Michael Jackson. That's why they're speaking up because they're like, yes, Of course, there's a monetary element of this, but also ultimately you are idolizing this man

as a hero and erasing every single thing that we have said that he has done. And $16 million is not enough for that. And I understand. Well, the family's lawyers owned that. The family's lawyers said it's about justice, but with justice comes money. Like let's call a spade a spade. So I don't think they're trying to hide that and they're not trying to dispute that, but it would be remiss of us to not talk about the fact that for assault survivors it is hard enough to come forward to talk about it anyway regardless but imagine if you were doing it after being groomed for 10 to 20 years and by one of the most powerful people in the world at that time like imagine of course they feel scared to come out and talk about it the power that they

would be having yielded over them and I did a little bit of a deep dive into this as well and I am not a survivor of sexual assault as a child so I can't comment in that capacity but what the research said is that it is so common for people to come out survivors to come out to tell their story once they feel safe enough which often happens after somebody is either behind bars or has passed away because they don't feel like that threat is I guess as enforceable now I imagine with the Jackson estate it's not so much in that category because the Jackson estate is still super powerful but I imagine there'd be some I guess a level of relief for the family to feel like they can speak a little bit more openly about it now that he has passed on but also from watching the

60 minute and I know that there's going to be people who disagree with this but from watching the 60 minute episode it was so evident how much they individually loved him and they individually thought that the relationship they had with him was incredibly special and that the weird manipulation that gets tied up in sexual assault with children and how that's used as an expression of how much I love you like it was so clear the stranglehold that that had over this family and how they recant their experience and their telling of their experience once again like I want to make sure that we're not getting ourselves into any legal problems like obviously it's all alleged but people using that and weaponizing that as the reason why it's not true to me when I watched it

I was like, wow, that is textbook behavior by someone who has been groomed for such a young age and for someone who throughout their entire childhood, all the way through their teenage years was, yes, part and having a sexual experience with someone. And it was very complicated because in their mind, they also thought they loved this person. So of course, they're not going to out them and say, this person is abusing me. They don't recognize that what they're experiencing is abuse. They think what they're experiencing is love and a profound connection with someone. We know as adults and as the people that should be protecting children, that's not love,

that's abuse. And I think it's taken this family, objectively is what it seems, it's taken them a really long time to come to the realization collectively that they were groomed over so, so many years. That's kind of what I meant when I was talking about how like, you know, the modern lens and new understandings of things like coercion, like manipulation, like even Stockholm syndrome and the way that victims don't look perfect. I know that a lot of the victims or the alleges, sorry, I should say, with the whole Michael Jackson situation,

they're not perfect victims. But the thing that I cannot stop thinking about is like, yes, there is a chance that every single one of these people has lied and all of them maybe they've come together and they're doing it just so that they can financially profit. There is a chance that that's true. But there's also a chance that that's not true. and it's so strange to me the intensity of the parasocial relationship that people seem to have

with michael jackson because you know laurie you said you got it in your dms i've seen it on tiktok i've seen it on instagram it is so eye-opening to me that the ferocity that people defend him with where i'm like you don't know this man like you you know if anything that 2026 has shown us with the epstein files it's that these things can hide in plain sight and it's that we don't necessarily know these people that we put up on pedestals and it's just very odd to me that people can defend him with such vigor when like you just don't know and so for me it's like yeah there's a chance that it's not true but there's also a chance that it's true and because of that that's why I don't want anything to do with this there's also a really interesting part of the debate and

it was one I keep saying you know when I say their dms were split they were split like you know I know that there's people who are full Michael Jackson stans but there are a lot of people who are very much on the other side of this and are in disbelief by the current, I guess, discourse that's happening around Michael Jackson and falling at his feet with how amazing he was and not talking about this child sexual assault stuff. But one thing I think is very interesting that's being used as proof that he didn't do these things is that he was investigated. So he was investigated for a period on and off over 13 years. It was not a consistent 13-year FBI investigation. I've looked into it, but he was investigated. This investigation coincided, as we said,

with some of these people who came forward and then were paid off and no longer wanted to partake in the investigation. So it made it really hard to have a criminal charge be brought against him because the people who originally brought the charges settled and didn't want to talk about it anymore. But also this idea that this 13-year investigation is proof of innocence. What I say to that is that Jeffrey Epstein was investigated for 30 years before charges were brought against him,

30 years before he was criminally convicted, and he probably would never had been had he died 10 years earlier than that. Do you know what I mean? That it took so long for those convictions to come forward. And it was of such an enormous and immense scale that is unparalleled. And so I guess like using that as the only thing that kind of is the pillar of truth in this and saying, well, he didn't do it because he was investigated and he wasn't charged for it. It's like, if you really look into how nuanced this is and how many question marks and layers there are to the Michael estate and what part they've played in all this it leaves you at the end of the day with more questions than it does answers and that's why

I think ultimately we're never ever ever going to know the truth and we're never going to get to the bottom of it but you cannot deny that the Michael estate is an enormous company that is doing everything they can to make sure that the reputation of Michael Jackson erases this concept or conversation around sexual assault? I find it fascinating that people can't seem to realise that you can be an incredibly talented musician and also a pedophile. You can still produce amazing music and be who you are

and still be doing abhorrent things behind the scenes. You can be an amazing person on stage and a monster in private. And I think a lot of people want to keep him in this category of like complicated legend rather than accused abuser because for our generation specifically, and it is the older generation, it's not the younger kids that don't really know what's going on. But for our generation, he was such an integral part of growing up. Like every child listened to him growing up. Every child, I did so many dances to his music, like with my friends in their basements would practice their dances and perform them on

stage. And there is no one that didn't know Michael Jackson's name and not love his music. Like for him now to come out and be tainted with a brush of pedophilia ruins this fantasy for a lot of people and it taints your memories growing up as a child because he was so instrumental in everybody's. And the legacy. The legacy. And so like people don't want to believe it because what does

that mean for everything that they grew up with? And I think that's a question a lot of people are facing. I guess where I came to with all of this and like whether or not you believe it or don't believe it, but I was like, I don't really want to be putting my views towards something that could be true that if there's a possibility that this criticism is correct I don't want to be going and watching a movie that we know is a fictionalized and like romanticized version I'm not saying fictional because obviously it's true account it's a highlight it's a real romanticized

version of this man's life and you know it was originally being promoted as being like you know deep and it was going to get into all of the dark stuff and it was going to unpack but it didn't do any of that. It didn't provide any of that. It really did just provide this very, very fluffy, very PR-able rewrite of his life and ending it in 1980. Like we said, I know that that may have been because of this loophole that they found in the contract that they wrote firstly, like let's put that out there, the contract that they put forward to be signed. It's a very opportunistic thing that ends in 1980 at the height of his incredibleness and none of the dark stuff is being unpacked ultimately for me i watched that 60 minutes and my feelings and opinions on how i

feel about michael jackson are forever changed because of it all right guys well look that is it from us and honestly we just talked about it and it feels pretty fucking weird to come off the back of that conversation and be like what is your suck of the week yeah but i would love to know what everyone's opinion is on this discussion that we've just had because it is very big it's also extremely timely we're gonna link the 60 minute youtube episode in the show notes if you want to go and watch it yeah it's a fucking fascinating watch it really is horrifying horrific but also very very fascinating and i do think it's an important conversation to be had at the time where we are all talking about michael the movie you can watch all of these on youtube speaking of

youtube and also you can join the discussion group if you haven't already that's where all the good stuff goes down there's so many interesting ask and cut questions in there there's people asking everything from what hair straightener do you use to like what's your favorite pair of underwear like literally anything you could ever think about from cheating exes to like tidbits that are helpful it's all in there and that's life uncut discussion group and you know the drill tell your mom tell your dad tell your dog tell your friends and share the love because we love love Thank you.