Life Uncut - Why Does Desire Change & When Was The Last Time You Felt Pleasure? Uncut with Dr Jenn Gunsaullus

Episode Date: June 26, 2025

One of the most common questions we get from our listeners is ‘where has my desire gone and how do I get it back?’ It seems to be something every one of us experiences at different stages of our lives and we still don’t seem to be talking about it all that much. Speaking of things we don’t talk about, when was the last time you self pleasured? How about your partner? Do you ask them when they masturbate? Don’t worry, we don’t either. But maybe we should!  Joining us is the incredible Dr. Jennifer Gunsaullus, aka ‘Dr. Jenn,’ a sociologist, sexologist, TEDx speaker, and ‘Vagina Warrior’. With over 20 years of experience in the field of sexual health, Dr Jenn is here to break down how we all feel about desire and pleasure for ourselves and within our relationships!       We spoke about: How our attitudes have changed when it comes to talking about sex How girls and boys are socialised differently when it comes to our bodies When to talk to kids about their ‘urges’ How our desire levels change over our lifetime and so does ‘what feels good’ Is porn a common problem in relationships? Are you the higher desire person or lower desire person in your relationship? How important is it to masturbate? Practical ways that you can bring your desire back You can find Dr Jenn’s new book From Madness to Mindfulness: Reinventing Sex for Women  You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. Now, let me tell you, after listening to this episode today, well, you might be feeling something after this. You might want to masturbate. You might.

Yeah, I was going to. I was going to be more subtle, Brittany. There's nothing subtle about this episode. We're talking pleasure. All right. We are talking pleasure. We're talking masturbation and this is a topic that is often incredibly taboo, not on our podcast, but you know, it's something that as well, I think as women, a lot of us grew up with a lot

of stigma around and discussing it and talking about it has definitely been something that has come into more of the social sphere recently. There are a lot of people online who are discussing female pleasure. I mean, we interviewed Ellie from Comfortable in Her Skin, who is a really big advocate here in Australia, but still, I think that it is something that we look at specifically. I think it's quite gendered. We have different views on it for female pleasure versus male pleasure, but just in fact, like, you know, the reasons why it's something that might be important, the reason why it's something that is so stigmatized are all the things we're unpacking on this episode. And we do have Dr. Jen joining us now. She's a sexologist. She's

TEDx speaker and she's also coined the vagina warrior for anyone who needs their vagina being worried there it is a warrior for it don't worry your vagina they're not your vagina's not worried it's a warrior it's a warrior two separate things with over 20 years of experience in the sexual health field Dr. Jane is here to break it all down for us and also I'm just so fascinated in how someone becomes an expert on masturbation and like how many hours has to go into this field of research, Jen. Yeah. Like what's that diploma? How do you do that? Well, it's also a lot of talking about it. So not always the doing part. Welcome to the pod, Jen. It's so nice to have you here. And I know like we start our podcast

episodes with talking about axillary unfiltered. I'm sure you have an embarrassing story. I wonder if it's related or not, but yeah. What is your embarrassing story? It's so funny. I was like, which one do I choose? But I went as sort of related to these topics So I started dating my boyfriend a little less than three years ago, and he's a scientist and like a cancer researcher. So not at all used to anybody who talks about sex all the time in such an open way. At the time when we started dating, I was just releasing a podcast about trying to feel sexy again, like in my late forties at the time. This was like three years ago. and how I did this. I did this like eight day quest or one week quest for myself around

trying to feel desire and trying to be sexy again. And I, I talked about dating or, you know, hanging out with younger men and flirting and stuff like that. Anyway, all of that details aside, I was so proud of this podcast that I had created all on my own. And it was my storytelling and humor and all of that. And I'm dating this new guy. And I was like, you need to listen to my new podcast. And I'm not even thinking, cause by the time I'm starting to release it, I had finished the whole thing. And so I'm forgetting about some of the early episodes. And we, gosh, we were maybe on our third date or something.

He picked me up and he was kind of quiet and kind of distant. And I don't remember what I said, but I was like, you know, what's going on? You seem a little off. And I was like, you know, have you been listening to my podcast? I'm just chatting about my day. And he's like, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been listening to it. And I was like, oh, and then I was like, oh, wait, is it kind of weird?

He's like, yeah, it's, it's sort of uncomfortable. Yeah. And then I'm like thinking back, I was like, oh yeah, I'm talking about younger men hating on me. I was talking about farting in the middle of the night from eating too much Brussels sprouts, how it can be difficult for me to orgasm or body image concern. And just bluntly, like, so out there, like, you know, these things that you get to know over a long time period by somebody not in one fell swoop in like the first week and

a half of dating them. And cause all of a sudden it was so, cause I'm so used to talking about these topics and being comfortable with them, which is not what most people are used to. Oh, the poor guy doesn't even care that you farted. He's like, oh, hard to orgasm. How am I going to do that? He's like too much work. Right.

And he was already a little, like he had looked me up online and was like, and he's an amazing man, but he's like, you know, so much about sex. Like you have videos on topics. I'm not even sure what the topic is about. And so he was already feeling a bit intimidated. And then this podcast dropped. and I was like oh my god it's so obvious and I just didn't like I just didn't get it because I was just proud of my work you know we've we've had similar things over the years because I mean

when we started this podcast I was in a relationship with my now husband I wasn't and Britt was single and Britt would often be like I have this really funny story but I don't want to tell it in case you know one it might affect my dating potential but also the guy I'm dating might listen to this and I was like Brittany anything for the content I know why am I always the sacrificial lamb your husband doesn't care Laura used to say tell that really embarrassing thing that happened and I was like it's okay for you you've found your penguin I was like I'm still looking for mine if I say that I'm gonna be looking for a long time yes and it can absolutely be used against us or at least just freak them out I like the Marilyn Monroe quote which is like

if you can't handle me at my worst you don't deserve me at my best and I feel like you're just really putting it all forward so Jen tell us how does one become a vagina warrior and like what is a vagina warrior exactly it's not a worried vagina let's just all be sure it's not that is a specific award i won at a local university a while back specifically because of work i had been doing if you remember the vagina monologues if you remember that was like a long time ago that was touring and it was at college campuses and eve ensler had written this play and then gave the rights for folks that wanted to do it as fundraising for local domestic violence shelters or sexual assault prevention places. And I had been, I had done a lot of it

locally and had been an actress in it and also a director. And I had been doing productions of it at a local university also, and actually teaching a whole semester long course on it. And so my students ended up nominating me for a special award called the Vagina Warrior. Oh, you won an award. Fighting for women's voices and women's pleasure around, you know, female sexual empowerment activism. How did you get into this yourself in the first place? Was it because, you know, and we are going to talk about like the stigma and stuff that is surrounding this, but is it something that you personally felt and wanted to make a shift in? Was it an industry or a, I guess, a speciality that you fell into? Like, how did this come about?

Yeah. So I grew up in Pennsylvania, suburbs of Philadelphia, was raised Catholic, was definitely raised kind of like a good girl and we didn't talk about sexual topics. And in college, my sophomore year, my roommate became a sexual health peer educator where you go around to the dorms and do condom demonstrations and safer sex talks and healthy relationships. And so, I mean, and already this was, this was 32 years ago already at this point. And I was like, that group sounds amazing. You get to talk about sex, how fun. And I still, you know, I had a lot of shame and embarrassment and fear around the topics. And I was like, you get to talk about sex and you get public speaking skills. So I joined the group just because it seemed fun and interesting and I could gain some

skills and confidence. And then very quickly I became fascinated around what people are talking about or not talking about and how much, how much, you know, like we'd have these young women and we do a workshop with them on a Thursday night about preventing STDs or STIs and pregnancy and, and healthy sexual interactions. And they'd be like, Oh my God, I'm never going to have sex without a condom again. I'm going to make sure we talk about this. And then I'd see them on a Monday morning. They'd be like, yeah, I got drunk Saturday night. And then I was afraid to ask for it. And I didn't want him to reject me and he didn't offer a condom. So they weren't doing it. Then they're scared. They're not having good sex. They're not advocating for themselves. And so

that realizing that the approaches I was being taught to teach around sex was very fear-based and they weren't working and that there was so much shame and embarrassment and just lack of skills and gender role socialization differences around these topics. And so that's how I really got interested in this topic 32 years ago, specifically around the shame, embarrassment, and then women not being able to speak up and advocate for themselves, whether it's around protection or pleasure or any of it. It's funny that you say, it's wild to me you say this was 32 years ago.

We do a segment on this podcast once a week. It's an episode called Ask Uncut, people writing their questions. We still get so many questions all the time. We had one only a week or so ago that was, you know, I was having sex with this guy and he didn't put a condom on and I was too awkward to ask. so I just did it and you know and we even said then we're like it's crazy that we feel like we've come so far sometimes and then you hear people write these questions in and we're like women are

still feeling too uncomfortable in those situations they're still feeling shame surrounding asking for a condom or asking for what they want what was it like for you because I know you do center around shame and you focus on shame what was it like for you growing up in this really religious family like you said and then saying hey guess what I'm not married but I am going to start educating people on sex like how did that go down with your community and your family yeah and the thing is i wouldn't say we were very religious but we did go to church and then around probably i was around age 14 or 15 then my mom gave me the choice do you want to keep going or not and my sister and i and she stopped going i continued going some but i think when i started coming home i can remember

like the first thanksgiving after i was getting trained as a sexual peer educator again i think much like my podcast with my boyfriend three years ago, I was just so proud and excited about what I was doing and I wanted to share it with my family. And so I would, you know, pull out a bottle and be like, oh, here's what we do for our condom demonstrations. And I'd pull out a condom and show them how to unwind it down on the bottle. And my grandparents would be there some. So I think my parents did somehow a fantastic job of just instilling a lot of confidence in me and my sister and the passion to follow what we believed is best. And the thing that they've always, I mean, they're truly my parents and my sister, still my biggest fans in my work. And the

thing that's really been most meaningful to my parents is how much they know I'm helping people, helping people talk about what they're afraid to talk about, helping people have healthier relationships, helping people prevent pregnancies they don't want. Yeah. So they, they've always seen the service aspect of it and my passion around it. And they've encouraged me. So I've had them on my podcast before and video series, and I've interviewed them. And yeah, so even though we did not talk about these topics at all growing up, they've come and seen me in the audience of the vagina monologues when I did 22 different orgasm moans on stage. It's like that theory where it's like when you never ever ever let a kid like have any access to xyz when they're younger

and then they get full access to it like sugar yeah like you can't have any alcohol at all you can't even try it and then they're the kid that ends up being like you know the binge drink when they're in their 20s exactly i'm so interested you mentioned something earlier and it's something that i even notice as a parent myself with young children the way in which we socialize boys versus girls around anything to do with pleasure or their private parts or literally just like how we expect boys to behave differently than girls can you talk us through a little bit about how this starts from a young age but also what is that sort of disparity between genders yeah we still it's funny and and to your point britney too it's like how how was that 32 years ago i was saying those

situations and we're still in the same boat today and so there's something just so deeply personal about sexual topics, at least as we are treating them in society, that then I feel like there's so much space for judgment and shame. And if we don't work on that for ourselves, we unwittingly pass it on to the younger generations. And there seems to, there still is very much a gender divide that sex as we understand it is still often on male terms. Like if, you know, I've had couples come and see me and the girlfriend or wife will be like, I take so long to orgasm. I was like, Oh, how, how long does it take you? She's like, gosh, I don't know about five minutes or something. And I was like, Oh, that's, Oh, that's actually amazing. That's great. And, but her standard and

both of their standards is his one minute to orgasm. So, so much of it is still just a male standard that desire should come up spontaneously versus be more responsive to the environment or how much safety and communication and emotional connection often matters for women especially in long-term relationships so so much of of what we consider normal or sexual dysfunction is how men do things or how women do things and we keep passing that on and that belief that if it's sex is more normal for boys than girls that are interested then there's something wrong with them and that's still whether you're you know directly shaming or saying those things or just not talking about it, they're going to pick that up from society overall. I do think, right, it's normal

more so for that boys will masturbate, boys will touch themselves, their penises. Of course, it feels good. You know, of course they were. But if you're a girl doing it, like, what's wrong with you? You're dirty. You know, you're a slut. You're going to ask for it. Like, there's something wrong with you. And I still think so many folks have the automatic default either way in allowing boys and men, of course, to be sexual on their own terms, but not allowing the same for women and girls I do find it interesting how you speak about the fact that like we kind of are accepting that boys are going to touch themselves and and that men are going to masturbate and when girls do it that it's something that we deem as being like definitely unladylike but also like confusing

and the thing that I and I'm going to be careful about how I you know navigate this because it's definitely a lot of kids do things and it's not sexual they're just figuring out their bodies they're finding where things are and what goes where and everything else and I think that there is this expectation belief that because boys have a penis it's there and they're going to play with it and I would argue girls do exactly the same thing it's just that it's the way that we communicate with them that it's not the right thing to do or they shouldn't you know and that I do think creates the shame from a very very young age that it's it's naughty I guess is kind of like the language that surrounds it but I would definitely argue that like little girls are a zero difference

to little boys for like reaching down yeah babies will will reach down in their diaper or when they're getting changed and touched because it feels good so yeah and kids kids will do the same if you're touching your body i mean it's your body like you touch it and something feels good then you're like oh what is that i'm gonna do that yeah i don't know if this is your realm or not but what advice would you have because right now i would be thinking okay if i was a parent of a three four five six year old and they were i saw them in front of the tv with their hand down their pants and I'm saying this exact situation because I was at my friend's house and their little one was doing that and she looked at me she's like what do I do right now because I don't

want to rouse on him because it's not wrong but I need to educate him that it's not something we do and in public like yeah but I think that that is something that all parents would find really interesting and love some education on can you advise on what you is the right thing to do the best path when I've worked with parents before seems to be and this is hard to do when kids are young but making a clear distinction so first of all notice your tone of voice and how you talk about it that's just like matter of fact normal you're like oh yeah everybody you know wants to touch themselves sometimes because it feels good so there's no shame in your voice and if you have to practice that on your own or with someone else do so and then the distinction is like that's

something we do in our rooms alone that's not something we do in front of others and that distinction seems to be helpful so that they know not to do it in school not to do it in the grocery store because I've heard these stories yeah and that distinction of like nothing wrong with that yep that feels good if you ever want to do that yeah you could just go into your room by yourself please with your pillow and your stuffed bear or whatever it is you're rubbing against what do you think from like an age-appropriate perspective like is it a situation where like when you're younger you kind of like discover something that feels good so it's like that's how most people figure out, okay, well then this is, I'm a sexual person and this is something that I enjoy doing.

Or is it usually because you have the hormone urges and everything else that you start to kind of like experiment and discover what's going on? I think it's both. And it really depends on the person. I think when we're younger, we can just be touching our body sometimes. And we find out like, oh, that, that feels good. Like, I don't know what that is necessarily. Cause often nobody's talked to us about it, unfortunately, but we realize that it feels good. As we're aging, then it can be, I think once puberty kicks in and then there is urges and of like, and you don't exactly know what they are, but if you see somebody kissing or if you see somebody that's attractive, you feel more of it, you know? So you're sort of drawn to folks. And then, you know,

basically we just stumble about, we figure out what works or what doesn't. But it's interesting when I think about that, because that interest and willingness and curiosity about exploring our own body and new things that feel pleasurable and doing that with someone else. I feel like, you know, a lot of the clients that I work with in my coaching practice are folks in long-term relationships and marriages. And I feel like so often they learn to default to what works or what used to work and just to check the box or be efficient. And you've got kids and you've got school and you've got household stuff and jobs and, and it makes sense, but our bodies are always changing and pregnancy and birth and postpartum and perimenopause and menopause and for our

medications or diseases and men's and women's bodies, we are always changing. So I wish we had more of that curiosity and that exploration from when we were younger of just trying to learn and realize, well, you know what, you got a new body. It's always sort of changing. Like why not go back to that sometimes or with your partner and create time some you know something I like to call HNFT happy naked fun time where you could just explore each other's bodies and and talk but not necessarily a goal but to to learn and grow and be curious and have fun and see what feels good and how things shift and change at what age do you think is age appropriate to start having conversations around your body and around like these I guess like things that would pertain to

anything that's sexualized but with children who might be at a self-exploration age often a much younger age than people think but because of the topic of consent and body autonomy often age three age four of actually teaching kids to start paying attention to do they want to give aunt sally a hug and kiss you know when she's giving you a birthday present or does she kind of freak you out and you actually don't want to. And teaching kids that they don't have to just hug and kiss every adult or anyone that wants to, but they actually can have some autonomy in checking in with themselves. Do they want that? Does that feel right? Otherwise they could give a handshake or they give a wave or a fist bump. Like there's still ways you can acknowledge and thank others,

but it shouldn't have to be that we have to allow somebody into the boundaries of our space to do so. And so often that, I mean, I know that's what we were taught growing up and that was just normal. That's what you did. Cause it's rude if you don't do it. So at an early age, teaching kids that type of word and including, you know, with their parents, like, Hey, if you don't want to hug at nighttime, that's okay. We could do other things. But when we normalize at such a young age that they have a right to whoever comes into their body space, you know, they become teenagers and like, of course that's just normalized for themselves and that they wouldn't want to violate that for someone else. So I think that at a young age and then generally around age

eight or so, really starting to talk about body changes, puberty changes in boys and girls, because it's not uncommon for girls to start getting their periods by age nine, potentially. And so I think for boys and girls to know what their bodies and other bodies are going through, and then again, teaching it in a non-shaming, normalizing way so that they aren't making fun of other kids and they don't feel shame for themselves also. And they're not freaked out when something happens or they have ejaculation at nighttime and a wet dream, or they get their period for the first time, or a friend's talking about a tampon or something. So this normalization so that they are kind to themselves and they're kind to each other.

Moving away from kids into adulthood, what percentage of your clients would you say come to you with relationship issues surrounding masturbation? And maybe that is the shame of masturbation in a relationship maybe that is because a partner is choosing to masturbate more than they are choosing to have sex like is it quite a large percentage of people that you see no that doesn't mean though that there's not concerns or issues around masturbation but they really rarely present with that I think in general particularly in the United States if I think of a couple felt like they were having issues around that it would often be connected to pornography use and a belief that in particular like the husband was watching too much porn and masturbating

like they tend to be linked yeah and the quote-unquote sex porn addiction I tend to not use terms like that because I just because there's so much shame around it and if anybody shows up to me with terminology like that or problems like that they often are coming from very heavy religious backgrounds and they have so much shame around these topics that that takes on a life of its own. And I've actually found when we can undo the shame and I can facilitate conversations between a husband and wife around these topics, that then all of a sudden this sort of compulsive desire to keep watching porn or masturbating, it starts to dissipate. So some of it is like what you resist persists in this shame spiral that they get stuck in that seems to be feeding it. So

I don't particularly like the term porn addiction myself, but there can be problematic behaviors that are pulling a couple apart instead of bringing them together. And certainly masturbation can be one because it can be something that we hide from our partners or we feel shame about, or they catch us, they walk in and catch us or something. So I'm always, you know, it's not uncommon that I'll be talking to a couple and they've been together, you know, 20 years or something. And I'd be like, oh, so I'm curious, do you masturbate? Do you masturbate? I ask, and they both kind of freeze and their eyes get big and I was like do you guys ever talk about this they're like no no we've never talked about it so I was like got it I was like well it can be

really helpful to understand you know desire levels and where the other one is and so yeah but I like I suddenly feel their discomfort in me you're like so sorry that you need to face your demons but like how often and you can now respond the things like the porn conversation and I understand where you're coming from we're talking about it and labeling it as something that might reinforce the shame around it but I would dare say and I know this because we have it from questions that come in through Ask Uncut not from people who have religious backgrounds but people whose partners use it as a tool or it's become like almost like the repetition of it becomes habit and then the habit is what impacts the ability for them to have desire in their own

relationship because they're already masturbated three times in a day there's nothing left in the tank and I'm saying this objectively in terms of what we've seen through the things that we've been exposed to it's definitely seems to be more of an issue with men but not so much just because of masturbation I think for some people it affects the way in which they think sex should be and so then sex takes on a porn-like effect in the bedroom which affects the way that everybody in that situation enjoys sex I myself have definitely been in a relationship with someone who only had sex as though he was in a porno and it was awful but I was also really young and I had no benchmark for what was normal sex either.

Yes, I agree with everything you just said there. So I do think, depending on the age you first started watching porn, how much you watch, how much real experience folks have had, we'll say young men in particular, like real women, real bodies, who don't just orgasm on demand or who don't want to be choked or who at least would want to have a conversation first. Yes, I think there's absolutely problematic aspects. And because our sex education in general isn't great,

that that really does because porn is so visceral. Yeah. It feels so real. So you can have adults or others saying porn isn't real, but it is real people having actual sexual encounters. And it's so visceral. We feel it in us. It's hard not to become programmed of like, oh, I guess this is what you do. I guess this is what pleases someone else. So in general, you know, if I'm working with folks around that, they feel like they may be masturbating too much or watching too much pornography the main issue of like the too much is it putting a distance between you and your partner because you are turning to that instead of turning towards them yeah if you are stressed and you're not coming to your partner to talk through your stress and you're just using that

as an easy and then disconnecting from your partner or if you feel some desire and you're not turning towards your partner who is a willing sexual partner and is interested those are or if it's interfering with you going to your work or, you know, keeping your job or going to school or if you're masturbating in your bathroom at work and could get caught. Those are all clearly anything that could get you in trouble or that is interfering with your real priorities in life, including your relationship. That's when it's really something to look at. You know, you mentioned something just then about how like sometimes it can affect the way in which we think the other person experiences pleasure. But I would dare say that as women, we often deprioritize our pleasure

or even our satisfaction in sexual relationships for the willingness to not want to offend someone or to be deemed as though we're doing a good job. Or like we can put so much focus on pleasuring the other person that we minimize our own pleasure in order to make sure that they're having a great time. Why do you think that this is something that is so gendered? I mean, one, we learn again, we learn this male standard of sex. So if I'm not able to orgasm in a few minutes, then there must be something wrong with me. And as a woman and I don't want to be high maintenance or I don't want to feel rejected by the man or I don't want to feel judged or shamed. So some of it is a lack of education about how bodies work differently and the normalization, again, of like men's pleasure, not ours. I still think there's something sort of fundamental that like there's something dirty or wrong with a woman who like wants her own pleasure. I also think so many this is changing some, but still young girls and young women are often still socialized to be nice.

Yeah, to not rock the boat, to not make others feel bad. and so that could be a piece because if you have to speak up for your own desire or for your own pleasure then if you're with a male partner you might hurt his feelings in some way or hurt his ego and plus he might get angry at you or and may lash out in some way so i think there's a lot of different factors i think some of this is socialization but i think some of this is hormone differences in general. I think as women, we feel things quite deeply and things that are social quite deeply. And I think that may be, that may be the estrogen in the system. Actually, frankly, I really do think it is because once I've worked with so many women in their fifties that have

gone through menopause and now they're like, F all of you. I'm not taking care of anyone else anymore. This is about me now. I'm not nurturing anybody. I don't care about all of you. So we feel it. We feel it deeply. And this is why so much of my work is around mindfulness and where we feel emotions inside us, whether it's anxiety or fear or shame or embarrassment or disappointment, because those icky feelings, we often have patterns because of experiencing them in the past and they felt so bad or the context was very difficult, the relational context, that we then just don't want to feel that. And then we've got patterns of behavior that doesn't serve us often. And I think pleasure and asking for pleasure falls into all of those

factors. What is the key point where it does become a big issue? Because people, it's fine to masturbate and not have sex, but when is it not fine? So if I had a couple in front of me that was presenting with this, I would try to ascertain how much sex do they actually want together or sexual encounters do they want per week or per month? And is that being met? And are they, and often it's almost impossible in a long-term relationship to not have a higher desire person and a lower desire person. Even in the beginning, everybody maybe seems sort of like hot and heavy and everybody feels more high desire, but that, you know, after six months, three years, seven years, you're going to end up with a higher desire and a lower desire person, almost always

totally normal. So I would say, are you hitting a middle area well enough that both of you are feeling connected and satisfied with the frequency and the quality of the sex that you're having. If that's not happening, then yeah. And I've seen this, whether it's the woman that's the higher desire or the man that's higher desire. If you find out that your partner is masturbating and not coming to you and you're like, I want this time with you, that really hurts and is hard. So that's a space I play in, even though that person absolutely has the right to go masturbate if they want to and right because it's easier they know what works it's often efficient maybe they have their fantasy that they run through in their head pull out the favorite vibrator whatever

there's nothing wrong with it but if you guys are in a committed relationship that you always want to be growing together and that sexual intimacy is part of that that's where it can be problematic yeah and i think in those instances like we can get lazy with our partners i don't mean just like lazy with them emotionally but i mean like if you know that something's efficient on your own it's going to take you three minutes and then you know with your partner there's groundwork like i gotta gotta be nice to the guy like you know like it's more effort and like we can become complacent but i guess the long-term outcome of that is is like well you could be alone masturbating or you could be with a happy partner who's also fulfilled in the relationship but we also get lazy in sex too

like totally like even when you're like okay let's not masturbate let's have sex but you're like i know that this position and this exact move and this is what's going to get it done so i think we get lazy with like playing and on the flip side to I guess like the way it can be detrimental in a relationship how important is it for people to be masturbating or at least understanding exploring how their bodies are changing at each phase yes and I think it can right if you feel like because I'll speak for myself as a 52 year old perimenopausal woman who I'm like I'm not feeling desire in the same way I'm not feeling arousal in the same way and orgasms are more difficult to achieve. And I, had I not still masturbate sometimes on my own, even though my desire is

much less, had I not done that? So I'm like, I wouldn't know that I would think like, I couldn't, couldn't do it with my boyfriend specifically. And so that helped me see. And then I started, I'm like, Oh, I think it's time for a new toy. Like my body has changed. Let me find a new vibrator that works at an intensity and a vibration that works for me now. I was like, OK, this is what it is to be in this changing body. And I felt more confident explaining that to my boyfriend and describing it and talking about it so that he knows he's not doing anything wrong. And he's lovely because I'm always like, oh, is this taking too long or what's going on? Because I've had men in the past that are still in my head and kind of effing with my thoughts

sometimes. And he's like, babe, are you kidding? Nowhere else I want to be. This is amazing. I don't care I could lay here for hours with you and touching you and doing whatever you need so thankfully I've had that so I could speak for me in that way that it really has helped it's given me confidence and more clarity and what to communicate so that him and I could be a team together with my body changing instead of me carrying shame or feeling like I'm broken in some way or you know that I'll never I can't be sexual in the same way I used to be so we just get to evolve it together as a team and what's your advice to people you know you hear a lot that people not only have a reduced desire for sexual experiences and intimacy with their partner

but on their own as well so it's not just that they don't want the sex with their partner and they're masturbating they're not doing either they don't feel anything they don't have any interest when they once did we know there's a lot of social aspects that can influence that like stress and kids and fatigue and hormones and whatever else but what's your advice for those people to get back on track. Because a lot of people think it's a red flag and that they're broken and something's wrong with them. Yeah. And the thing is, it doesn't have to be a red flag and that our desire ebbs and flows throughout our lifetime. That's totally normal. I mean, some people will maintain highs, some people will stay low, but often folks will kind of go

up and down. So it doesn't have to be an alarm bell. If you're healthy, if your relationship is healthy, if you're giving yourself time to de-stress and self-care time, if you're not doing those things, then that's something to look at because maybe there's other factors going on or hormones out of balance, or you just truly aren't taking enough time for yourself, or you're not eating as healthy as you could be or exercising. All of those things can feed our desire and our sense of agency and how we feel about ourselves. So if we're not creating space, especially as women, if we are not creating spaces for us to take care of ourselves in a very holistic way, physical, mental, emotional, social, potentially spiritual, sexual desire can absolutely much

easier fall to the wayside. So if you really miss it, your desire, and it's problematic in your relationship also, start figuring out how you can prime your own pump. And there's there's audio erotic apps out there that are really hot that are short stories you can listen to 10 minutes 20 minutes well-acted sound effects everything and you can pick it like you know meeting a stranger on the beach or you know group sex or two women or two men or you know bdsm um of the dominant submission all different categories you can choose and that can help get your brain stimulated because our brain in many ways really is our biggest sex organ and how do we use that to our advantage so that's a good way to use technology uh to your advantage

i'll say a side note i've been telling folks for the past couple years since they've become more popular and since i tried it out the one time i was like oh good lord this is hot i've been telling And I was like, you know, you can listen to it when you're grocery shopping or when you're, you know, driving home or going to pick up your kids from school or doing dishes or, you know, driving home from work, whatever. And so I tasked myself with that at Christmas time. I went Christmas shopping while listening to these stories. A smutty audio book. I love it. Oh, my God.

I, I'm like, I'm fanning myself now because I'm just thinking I, not much makes me blush because I'm so used to these topics. I was blushing. i kept taking my headphones out to make sure it wasn't broadcasting to the whole store and that no one else would be like it links to a bluetooth in someone else's car or something like that's my fear that i'll be walking around and it links to like the shopping center bluetooth but this is also the same reason why i'm like smutty literature has kind of made this like real resurgence and yeah there's been lots of talk about it on tiktok i know like our producer producer keisha she's been you know she's spoken about it in the past as well like it really has

found a place and i think that women are stimulated in a different way to what men like i don't know many men who are reading smutty literature but i know a lot of women who do no and i guess like especially if maybe like you have had a real dip in your sex drive like it's probably a nice easy entry point rather than being like all right time to whip out the x max to suction whatever it's called you know x suction 794 do you know what i mean like it's just like there's no pressure you're just reading I also think sometimes we it's not always this easy but sometimes we don't know we want it and we think we have no desire until we have it you know like I say that sometimes it's like you think yeah you need a bit of action first and then you're like oh I like this that's

right I want to have sex and they hit you up and you're like in your head you're like I think nothing worse right now like no part of me feels like it no part of me wants it I'm tired but then when you start you're like oh I actually do want it it does feel good like it is there I feel sorry for my husband I'm like very pregnant I'm 25 weeks almost and um you still got a bit of time on your list yeah I know but like and also like my husband anytime I'm pregnant it's like his favorite time of the year but for me not for me it's his smutty porn yeah he's yeah he's got like a pregnancy kink and I absolutely do not but also like I have no desire none but also like I love my husband and I know I do enjoy sex so it's it's like it's only when I'm like literally in the

middle of it that I'm like oh that's right I like this isn't that bad I forgot I forgot I really enjoy this we're all having a good time now but if he just came up to me and was like hey what about tonight I'd be like fuck I want to go to bed no leave me alone you pest so you can't even be like oh no don't worry I was gonna use a bad excuse then don't worry move on move along well so let me yeah this is actually one of the main things I teach particularly when I'm speaking to audiences whether big audiences or small groups is that particularly for the lower desire person and often for women, they need to get aroused before desire starts to kick in. And so often we've been taught, again, this is the male desire arousal pattern that doesn't work for women,

especially in long-term relationships. So we're taught that you're supposed to feel desire and it should be spontaneous. And then you start touching yourselves or you seek out your partner and then you start getting arousal, which is blood flow to the genitals in general. And then you experience orgasm, but that is not the case. So often for women in long-term relationships that we need to take that leap of faith because we love our partners because we want that physical sexual connection with them. And we know how important it is. And then once we get going, as long as our partners know how to do it, because sometimes I think when men hear it, because if they're like, if men are like, well, how would you want somebody to turn you on?

They're like, grab my crotch. And, but most women would be like, please do not grab my crotch. that is too direct. So as long as either you can prime your own pump or your partner knows what to do, just start getting your body turned on. Because so often as women, like we need to get out of our heads and present in our body first, and then to be able to be present and open to sexual sensations. So once you get the arousal going in a safe way that feels right, then the desire starts kicking in. Then you have more arousal. Then you have more desire. And then you're like oh right i like this it's so much harder for us like in everything life like it's just harder like imagine just waking up with a boner and being like all right cool i guess i

want to have sex today come here yeah wouldn't that be just delightful i don't know if i should talk about it but like poor ben my husband sometimes ben will be like ready and raring to go and i'll be like where how where did that come from like he'll just nothing's happening he'll just walk in he's like hit me up and i'm like but i'm like how did that i can still understand it in your situation because like you guys have like intense time together because you don't see each other we're long distance they do long distance so i kind of get it right but also like i don't get it with my husband he sees me every i was just farting in bed all night and then like i know he's like the way you were farting last night out of your pregnant belly

you reminded me of your butts and now i'm off yeah yeah yeah it's like one degree of separation i know exactly it really is though and i think but i mean we've spoken about this before in times of like it's not just necessarily about desire it can be about lots of things in your relationship sometimes you might be feeling disconnected and less loving towards your partner and the last thing you want to do is like show them that you care about them and love them because you might feel annoyed and frustrated by them you just had a fight it's almost like the actions precedes the feelings so you can't wait for the feelings to spontaneously hit you in any respect whether that's you know just a feeling as though you're emotionally connected

not necessarily physically connected sometimes you have to like put in the groundwork before those feelings start to you know re-inspire so often because the version of desire that we all learn is is spontaneous and that's what you're talking about with your husband you're like where did that come from suddenly and that is more so maybe what we feel often everybody feels earlier in a relationship with the neurochemicals of desire but if you're the lower desire person you may very rarely or never have spontaneous desire you have what's called responsive desire that it's responsive to the context of your life and what's going on around you and your relationship with your partner. So I like to say, especially for higher desire folks who just like

feel spontaneous desire, I was like, your partner doesn't feel that way. It doesn't mean they don't like you. It doesn't mean they're not attracted to you. It doesn't mean your relationship's broken. However, what it does mean is you need to foreplay is all day long leading up to it of creating the context of feeling loved and connected and seen and appreciated and hand-holding and quality time and all these different components depending on on whatever it matters most to the lower desire person but all of that matters to create uh the context so that the responsive desire can be there since the spontaneous probably just won't be yeah jen what is your advice to couples and i know you mentioned it earlier when

you say you know you've had people that walked in and you were like well how often do you masturbate and then everyone in the room is awkward. What is your advice to couples who just don't speak about these things, who don't speak about masturbation? Clearly they're probably doing it, but their partner has no concept of what that looks like for them or what self-pleasure is. Yeah. And I think masturbation, because it can feel so personal and so shaming and so taboo, I think starting with that, if you don't normally talk about sex topics, isn't the best place. And And so I encourage folks like, you know, I've got all sorts of worksheets and lists of questions or there's those deck of cards you can get that are conversation starters for couples. And there's ones that are spicier around sexual topics.

I say use something like that, a list of questions or a deck of cards to start normalizing talking about these topics. And I'm a big fan of couples of whatever topics you're avoiding, but really matter for your relationship. you set aside a weekly check-in for just 15 minutes once a week so that you were normalizing talking about these topics and you're not brushing it under the rug anymore and in this case what you're doing is that you're actually building comfort with the discomfort you feel around these topics the shame the embarrassment the fear of judgment the stigma start normalizing it and truly at its core intimacy is is letting our armor down and being vulnerable and creating the safe space for someone we love and care about to do the same. So just talking about these questions in an open

way is intimacy. Like that's at a core of emotional intimacy. So that's how you could start building the comfort. And then eventually you'll get to the masturbation topic, but you'll have more skills in it by then. Jen, thank you so much for coming on today. Laura, do you have any other masturbation questions, personal or otherwise? No, I'm, I'm, I'm masturbated out. thank you but I to be fair like I enjoy the insight into this oh I didn't think that's what you're gonna say no I was gonna say no because I think my perception around maybe it happens as we get older as well because like you just have more not for everyone it definitely comes down to your exposure but I do feel as though the person I was in my sexual experiences at 20 was the meek girl

who didn't want to offend anyone and wanted to perform like I would put on an A plus performance that was my main that was my main priority I wanted to make sure that they walked away saying that I was great it didn't matter if I had a great time or not and it wasn't until I was sort of you know in my late 20s and definitely into my 30s where I was like oh actually no I'm important in this equation and probably I do still care about my partner's enjoyment but I care about mine as well you know like he can take some control over his enjoyment too it's not just my sole job in this equation and I think I used to take that burden on completely so I find these conversations really helpful because I know there were so many of our listeners are in the phase

of still wanting to please and not prioritizing themselves and probably aren't having the type of sex that they want to be having yes and maybe their partner wants more passion from them but they're like yeah but this isn't for me and this doesn't feel that good so it would be beneficial to both of them to figure out how to have those conversations absolutely we are going to link your website your socials and your book from madness to mindfulness reinventing sex for women for anyone that wants to go and find out more thank you so much for having this um absolutely your questions are fantastic the get off chat and everybody go home and masturbate tonight go give yourself a hand thanks so much thanks jen

Thank you.