Life Uncut - Why Is Dating So Hard These Days? Uncut with Jeff Guenther aka Therapy Jeff

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

Jeff Guenther AKA TherapyJeff is here to help you take control of your dating life, by tuning into who you are, what you want, and how you can get there. Therapy Jeff has over 3.8 million followers on socials. He is a licensed therapist with twenty years’ experience in private practice. Today we are going to unpack a bit of the psychology behind why we are the way that we are in relationships and how that impacts different aspects of our dating lives! Today we chat about: Growing up with a mum who is also a therapist. Is that good or bad? Can we blame our parents for who we are attracted to? Why is dating so hard right now? If you’re on dating apps, you could be dating an AI avatar of the person When we ARE the problem and how to take control of that Patterns: are you after chaos and drama or a healthy stable relationship? No, but really what are you actually searching for? How much can you change someone to help them meet your needs? How to spot the difference between love bombing and the honeymoon phase Can you survive cheating? What determines whether you can or can’t Find more from Jeff’s websiteFind Therapy Jeff on Instagram and tiktok You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! xxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never ceded. We pay our respects to their elders past and present. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. This episode was recorded on Cammeraygal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. and if you were one of our single listeners and you were tired of the dating world well this is going to be the episode for you you're not alone yeah you're certainly not alone we've spoken about it for years brit was flying that flag for so long yeah but then she left you all for dead so

almost felt guilty when i got into a relationship because i was like i owe it to the people to be like the single person attracted to red flags no you should i was like we've got nothing left we can't both be in relationships on this podcast but we are talking about big dating energy on this episode, and we're joined by Jeff Gunther, aka Therapy Jeff. Now, he is here to help you take control of your dating life by tuning into who you are, what you want, and how you can get there. I think the first thing is probably figuring out what you actually want, not the people that you probably end up dating. Therapy Jeff has over 3.8 million followers on social media. He's a licensed therapist with 20 years experience in private practice, and he also has a book out that is

called Big Dating Energy. Today, we're going to be unpacking a little bit about the psychology behind why we are the way that we are in relationships and how it impacts different parts of our lives. Jeff, welcome to the pod. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited for this. Thank you for joining us. Yeah, very excited to be talking about big dating energy. But before we delve into that world that all of our listeners are on the edge of their seat for, we want to hear your embarrassing story. You're accidentally unfiltered. Okay. So my accidentally unfiltered story is I got my graduate degree in marriage and family therapy and I moved from California to Oregon. And right when I got to Oregon, to Portland,

Oregon, I decided to open up my practice and I was just like, fuck it, here we go. I'm just going to be a therapist and see how it goes. I'm going to dive right in. And in my life, like leading up to that point, it wasn't uncommon for me to like experience anxiety. And the way that anxiety typically manifested when I was younger is I would like get a little sweaty or my heart would start to beat real fast or in really severe situations, my vision could get a little blurry and which was not great. But these were all like ways that I learned how to tolerate and get through. So even though I suffered from anxiety, I had lots of tools in order to get through it. And when I started my private practice and I was 24 years old, I started to see my first

few clients. And I started to experience a lot of anxiety while I was being a therapist. You're like, you're freaking out. I'm freaking out. We're all freaking out right now. Yeah. We're all freaking out, but I'm good enough to hide it is what I thought. The problem was that the anxiety was manifesting in a way that it had never manifested before. So I started feeling anxious in these sessions. And all of a sudden, it started to feel like I needed to go pee. And I was just like, oh, this is weird because I think I don't need to pee. And it feels like I really need to pee. And then after the session would be over, I'd go to the bathroom and do a pee and barely any pee came out. So I was like, this is kind of weird. And as I continued to see clients

over and over and over. The pee that I felt, I felt like I needed to pee, but then it started to feel like, am I peeing my pants? I feel like I might be actually like there's pee coming out. And so during the sessions, I'd have to kind of like sneakily like look down at my pants to be like, am I just drenched in pee? And the client isn't telling me. But the thing is, is that like I wasn't peeing. There was no pee coming out. And I had a supervisor because you have to have like a supervisor when you're a baby therapist first doing it and i was too embarrassed to tell them that i had these like this pee pants sort of like neuroses jeff it seriously feels like the point in time where it's like the therapist needs a therapist i've never had that but i found

this really interesting so i was having a discussion about pain recently with my boyfriend sorry fiance my bad my fiance i just got engaged i'm joking i'm just being a wanker but i didn't know that men if they need to we just can squeeze the end of their penis and the weed goes back in did you know that laura no but also he's not gonna do that while he's got clients no sorry it was a it was a segue but like i just couldn't well that's the thing is that like i i could do that but i can't do that in front of my clients that'd be like absurd and upsetting right and like sexual harassment yeah that would be like i i would not they would take my license away so i was like you know what the only way for me to guarantee that it's gonna be okay if i actually pee myself

is i either have to wear a diaper oh my god or or i have to somehow like shimmy a condom on so that like if I if I these are my two options this is like this is like if I'm going to continue being a therapist I either have to put on a condom or wear a diaper what would you decide to do I would quit I would quit I'd be going to move into Alaska question all my life choices up until this point but your condom wouldn't it if you had a condom on wouldn't the amount of urine that you had overflow maybe it was just a couple of drops well I was I was thinking about like really rolling out that condom real far like condoms actually are like pretty long if you like really unroll it so I was like maybe I just like unroll it real long and then fill it up like a water

balloon sort of situation I was worried that the diaper would crinkle and you would hear that like this 24 year old therapist is wearing it like so I actually did Brit what you would have done and I stopped being a therapist no way I was like I'm just gonna I'm gonna stop being a therapist and I applied to work at the Apple store in the mall and I was like fuck it I'm gonna be I'm gonna sell Apple computers I'm not gonna be a therapist anymore I went to the mall to go on my interview and I was like I can't work at a mall and so then instead I just like worked at like a community mental health agency eventually two years later I became a private practice therapist and the phantom p anxiety attacks never came back that is crazy I was making a joke about not continuing on

with your degree but imagine like and we'll get into it i know your mom's a therapist yeah but imagine like your mom being so proud of you like if you've just graduated you're doing therapy you're like sorry mom i'm gonna piss myself every session i'm quitting yeah no way if that would have happened if that would have continued i'd be like i'm not supposed to be a therapist forget it but luckily it never came back it must be so interesting being like an intergenerational therapist growing up with parents who are therapists and then getting into that industry yourself i mean i almost question like what that what is that like growing up as a kid with parents who are so literate in this world is it something i don't know what was your experience of it i i

wonder if it's like a positive thing or also you can be in a situation where like parents are almost too in tune like they they know too much the the problem is that like anybody can become a therapist so you would imagine that maybe like a therapist who's also a parent would be like really emotionally in tuned with their kid uh she was not and she has not been very so like she's like probably a good therapist for the clients that she sees but when she was a parent she was not in tune with me and she also struggled with like her own mental health issues and addiction issues so she was like pretty checked out the sad so i'm trying not trying to bring everything down here and we can like laugh about it. Yeah. I think people would have a perspective or a thought around it if you

are the child of a therapist that you're supposed to have it all worked out. Yeah. And that makes total sense. And yeah, she didn't have it all worked out. I didn't have it all worked out. I think, you know, for the longest time, my plan was not to become a therapist. I was going to be like a major league baseball player, or I was going to be an animator. I was going to be in make video games or graphic design. But I switched to becoming a therapist, I think, is because I wanted to figure out how to connect with my mom because I never felt really connected with her. So I was like, well, if I'm a therapist, then maybe we can have the same language, talk about similar stuff. That didn't really work. But she did influence me in a roundabout way

to become a therapist. So I'm happy with the profession I have. Well, so you wrote this book, Big Dating Energy, and I had a very, very deep dive into your socials. And, you know, the theme is dating, relationships, sex. Did you go down that route? Because that was not a pun. Did you go down that route? Because that is the main problem that people were coming to you with? Like you saw the theme here. So you're like, let's just hone in on that. I did. Yeah. When I originally became a therapist 20 years ago, my goal, what I wanted to do was just work with children and families. And I did that for a while. I worked with kids, mostly like 11 to 13 year old, like when they're just fucking turds, but like the best little turds ever. they're starting to become angsty. And I did family therapy and I taught parenting classes. And I thought that I was going to do family parenting stuff for my whole career. But when I opened my private practice, I just kept on getting people in their 20s that were having problems and issues in their dating life. And so the more clients I got, the more I just focused on it and specialized in it. And then I just became a therapist that primarily sees people

that are dating and in relationships or new relationships and because of that i started specializing in it and then a few years ago when i started posting online i was like well i'll just talk about what i typically talk about and it worked out it's so hard because like you know i'm in my late 30s now but i know for myself my own personal experience the only time that i have been through therapy was in my 20s and it was when i was dating and i was so confused by the relationship that I was in it was such an absolute fucking cesspit of a relationship and I kind of needed help figuring my way out of it but also then I had to do the repair work around okay well like what's wrong with me like why do I keep attracting this into my life I mean that was

a real eye-opener but also I think we can often talk about this idea that the reason why we're in therapy is because a lot of the people around us probably should be the ones in therapy but we're doing the work do you think like how much do you think it is what is done to us versus what we are accepting or what we're bringing into our own lives like how much we need to yeah take responsibility for it i think it's well i think that like who we are how we show up in relationships is highly influenced by our family and by our friends and by the culture and by all the movies and media and content that we absorb. I mean, when we're little, the only intimate relationship that really matters to us when we're really, really little is the relationship that we have with our

parents. That is our first intimate relationship. That's how we learn about what love is and what to expect from love and how we need to behave in order to receive love. It might be that we're competing with our siblings who are also trying to get love in their unique ways. And usually, you know i was i'm the younger sibling i have an older sister and my sister is very like big energy theatrical likes to be in the spotlight very loud fun puts on a bunch of fucking skits when we're kids you know like knows how to get the attention whenever she wants and so i had to figure out how do i get the attention because i can't compete with her so instead i'm going to try to be you know the good kid that does everything right really quiet reserve gets good

grades doesn't bother anybody, right? And that wasn't a conscious decision. That was me just being really little trying to find my own lane. And then as we grow up, a lot of times we start to emulate how we first decided to try to get love or be loved. And usually when we're little and we're not getting the love that we want or that we deserve, we blame ourselves. And we're like, oh, it's because I'm not funny enough or smart enough or talented enough. So we grow up and we start to think that we're the problem. And then we typically attract other partners that reinforce the same issues that we fear. So I think that we can squarely blame our parents, our family, the culture, the media we absorb, all the messages. The problem is that you're

never going to change unless you take responsibility for it. So yes, fuck your parents. And also, what are you going to do about it? Like, you can just sort of like never heal and blame everybody. And that's cute when you're a teenager or in your early 20s. But it's not attractive when you get into your late 20s or 30s or 40s or older. You know what I mean? So, yeah, I think whether it's through therapy or through journaling or through a walkabout, eventually you have to get to a place where you have to take control over, you know, how

you show up in relationship and what you're going to do about it but I love blaming everybody else but you can only do that for a little while yeah it gets old pretty quickly when you're never the problem but I remember how long it took me to figure out that I was the problem and I don't I don't say that in a bad way like I was very problematic but the problem for me never getting into a relationship was because I was a commitment foe but I didn't know that so I was blaming everyone else I was like he did this like finding these ridiculous red flags in relationships and people were like, that's not a red flag. And eventually I ended up going to therapy off the back of a breakup. And that was like, the only times I have ever been to therapy is off the back

of a breakup, which is interesting because we know it's a muscle that you should be using all the time in the highs and the lows. Also, you were just saying that it's so interesting to me because I think anyone who has had that realization, I also have had that realization that there's a pattern and that I was the one responsible for that pattern. Anyone who actually wakes up and sees that, it's like, it's your instant antidote for taking control. Once you know that you do that same thing over and over and it's giving you the same relationships, like that is such, it's like a breath of fresh air. It's kind of hard to stomach at first, but then you're like, oh, I, I'm doing this. I can control this. It's amazing. Taylor Swift said it perfectly. I'm the problem

but jeff you've been you've been doing therapy for decades now and i don't i don't say that to make you feel old but it's plural like you're you're very experienced what is the difference now in dating that you have seen and the problems that people are bringing do you think it's harder for people to date now in this society than it was say 10 15 years ago you know i'm wondering what you two think about this like what your answer would be as well because i have an answer for it. And a lot of times when people ask me that, they're like, nah, I don't think that's right. So feel free to disagree with me. Because one answer that I don't typically say, but other people seem to think that it's this, is that like, you know what? Dating has been hard in every

single generation. There hasn't been one generation where you're just like, you know what? Dating's pretty sweet right now. Having a great time out there. It's super easy, which is probably true. I don't know if I've ever heard of any generation that felt like they had it really easy. So, one way to look at it is dating has always been hard. It's always tricky. It's always weird. But I do actually think it's harder these days. And one of the reasons is because of all the dating apps. One of the primary ways we meet people is through these dating apps. most of these dating apps are owned by the same big company called Match Group. They own Match and Tinder and Plenty of Fish and Hinge. They don't own Bumble. Bumble's the only app that they don't own this big. But they're all just there to make money off of your desperate heart or your horny genitals. And there's an algorithm and all these fucking dating apps that make it so that they

don't want you to actually find love. So one of the primary ways we try to find love through dating apps is actively working against us. Because if we do delete the app, which is part of their bullshit marketing, they want us to believe that they want us to delete the app. But if we delete the app, then they don't make any money and their investors get really mad and all the tech bros can't buy their fancy cars or cool houses. So I think that there's this extra thing that's going on that's making it harder also the pandemic and lockdown made everybody super fucking weird i don't understand we haven't rebounded from it like when it comes to like relationships and dating so i think that there's this technology factor that does make it harder i don't know

what do you two think i also wonder if because of this technology factor i'm not saying that this is a bad thing or a good thing i feel kind of well i mean i don't know how i feel about it but I think it has created a culture where we are defiant against this idea of settling, but sometimes we write people off before we've even given them the opportunity as to whether they would be someone that would be quote unquote settling because we've created this idea around the perfect person. And so we're swiping. It seems never ending. There seems like there's so many options. And so we treat people quite disposably and it limits our ability to have a connection, which would then let us make a decision as to whether, okay, if I was to have

a relationship with this person, would that be settling for me? But we kind of don't even get to that point sometimes because it's so transactional. Well, I think because dating fatigue is standard in every generation, but I think it's exacerbated by the fact that we have dating apps now because you do become fatigued faster. If you were dating in the wild and you met somebody, you're going to just focus on that one person. You're not going to be a hundred other people in the back of your head you're not going to like roll over in bed and swipe because it didn't exist yeah but now you are telling your story to someone and meeting someone 10 times a day so the fatigue i think comes quicker which in turn results in it being far harder and more

exhausting to want to date anymore and like dating fatigue is one of the most common things i hear from my friends and that i experience it's like i can't be fucking bothered i was like i i'm deleting the apps not because i found someone but because like i'm cooked i don't want to look for someone else. I don't want to tell someone who I am, how old I am, what I do. Like I want to make a PowerPoint presentation that I can give someone say, watch it. This is like dating me for five weeks. And then if you're interested, come back and we'll go from there. But so I think dating fatigue is probably one of the biggest things we come up against now. Oh yeah. And there's, well, first Laura, yes. Like there's this endless scroll of possibilities. You can always go back

on the dating apps and the dating apps give you the same dopamine rush that you get from social media apps or any other app that pulls you back in and yeah there's like the the dating fatigue is a real problem there's some real weird solutions to dating fatigue that are getting thrown out there where like kind of what you're saying like where they're like there's now they're creating ai to figure out like who you really are and then you create an ai avatar of who you are on to date and your ai avatar dates somebody else's ai avatar to see what if you'll get along and then if the ai avatars enjoy each other then you can actually meet in real life there's all these so many weird fucking startups that contact me and they're and they tell me these dumb fuck ideas

they're like we want you to be the face of this or we want a sponsored content i'm just like you're ridiculous it's almost like how can we have less human connection like how can we gamify the world even more it does feel and exactly as you mentioned like dating apps gamify something but when you hardwire emotion and then also addiction together it's such a recipe for being disappointed and also a recipe for disaster when it comes to your personal life imagine sending your ai avatar on the date for you off you off you go let me know how it goes like did i have cyber sex huh get that's so stupid like what do they report back went well orgasm twice get in there go get it go get it did your dirty work

jeff i know we touched on it a tiny bit before but i would love to get your perspective on it you know we talked about this idea of like realizing that we have control and and you know seeing when you're the problem when it comes to choosing the people that you're dating but the idea of patterns do we all like does everyone kind of follow a pattern when it comes to dating or a blueprint when it comes to how we choose our relationships and people that we are attracted to uh yeah i think so yes we do although you know there's some folks out there that have a pattern and then they try to like disrupt the pattern and change it might not be true for every single person out there and some people maybe are just like totally fucking chaotic and that's a pattern

and yeah, they're chaos. But I do think that there is a pattern. And like you were saying earlier, once you recognize what the pattern is, it's usually like, who do you feel most comfortable with? Who makes you feel more familiar? Are you experiencing the same types of issues over and over again? It's likely linked to your parents, your family, and the messages that you picked up along the way. And once you recognize it and shine a light on it, it doesn't have as much power over you than it did before and now you it's like liberating you have control over it it's not controlling you you don't have to go to therapy to figure out what the pattern is your friends probably know what the pattern is you just ask them to be honest with you 100% they do Laura

was telling me for years she's like it's you Brittany your friends are such a mirror because you go to them with everything and you know if you have great friends they might be honest with you but other friends are just a sounding board and they probably walk away and be like fuck Sarah's hot mess like she's doing the same thing again but maybe don't give you the positive feedback that you or that not even positive but the right feedback that you require to make some changes it's not uncommon for me to ask my clients where I like okay client we're gonna script an email for you that you're going to send to your five closest friends that's gonna say something like hey you know me i'm experiencing the same bullshit in my relationships over and over i'm not exactly sure

why that is i'm feeling overwhelmed by it can you give me honest feedback about why you think it is that i keep on attracting these folks and i won't get mad at you this is like a free non-judgmental zone and i just like want to use this so i can learn about myself more and talk about this in therapy and when you give your friends the opportunity to be honest with you and ask them also to be compassionate while they're doing it, then there is so much you can learn there. And there's a lot of change that can happen pretty quickly. Jeff, something that I want to get your opinion on, and I never know the right answer and I battle with it and I know everyone does. It's this idea of like playing a game when you're dating. We all

say, let's not play games. Like if you get a message, write back. We all have it in a place where we're like, oh, I've got the message. I'll wait two hours and write back. I'll wait four hours i hate playing games but i understand there's actually a psychology behind it like it does make you want something more or make them want something more if it's not as easily given to you what is your overall advice in dating around that that manipulation and game playing i mean if you want to play the game then you better be able to keep it up for the whole fucking relationship like if that's what the relationship is going to be based on is the game playing and the slight manipulation or making it so that they want you because you're not available? I hope you have

a lot of energy to continue doing that. And also think about the type of person that you're attracting that's only going to maybe like you if you're being a little gamey. Is that the kind of person that you want to be with? If that is and you want to play the game and it's really fun, then go for it. A lot of times I ask clients the question, do you want chaos and unpredictability because that feels exciting and fun? Or do you want balance and harmony? Because it seems like you're saying you want balance and harmony, but you keep on going and creating chaos and excitement and drama. And I feel like the game playing leans into the chaotic manipulation, not real, authentic connection. But the thing is, is that it can work, but that's not what a healthy

relationship that's not how a healthy relationship is created that's not how you create a healthy sturdy stable secure foundation and there's a lot of content creators out there on tiktok or instagram whatever who are talking about the game playing and it works if you're a player but it's not going to work long term long term probably it sounds like such an unhealthy way to start a relationship especially when we're talking about okay well if you're at a point or you're done with the bullshit and you actually want a great relationship like and you want to do something that's different to the way that you've been doing it thus far which I hope if you're listening to this episode that's kind of what it is that you're trying to get out of it so I guess

like what would be those things what is ground zero from like okay we're here dating hasn't been working for you so far let's try something a bit different I'm the guy that always says just sort of like show up authentically which what the fuck does that mean really I don't know I think it's something like, I just hate that word, authenticity, even though it's on the cover of my book. I'm sick of it. But it's more of like show up as your flawed, imperfect self in a way where you're not judging yourself. You're not trying to hide yourself too much. That being said, we're not here to trauma dump on the first date where you're telling your date every single thing. You're really just showing up for the first date or two or three where you're just checking out

vibes? Is there banter? Is there some attraction? Are you having a good time? Do they ask good questions? Do I want to see them again? So once you get past the first few dates, then you can start to be a little bit more investigative if you want and start really showing up and asking for a little bit about what your needs are, what your desires are, what you're looking for, what your future plans are, if you two can kind of connect on what a relationship style is that you're looking for. But I also am the type of guy that's just like, if you're not getting your needs met or you're feeling a little let down and it's date number five, go ahead and just ask for those needs to be met. Just put them out there. See if they can

actually meet those needs. Don't demand it. Don't be weird about it. Don't try to shame them or attack them, but be like, hey, I'm not hearing from you a lot. And that makes me feel like you're not really into me. Can you text more? Can you do that? And then see how they respond. And if they respond, they're like, of course I can. Or if they respond, they're like, I don't know. Then that's important data and information you're gathering to figure out if they're a good match for you. So basically, show up authentically, be yourself, ask for your needs to be met. If it seems like they can make a reasonable change, you're not going to ask them to change their personality. That's just kind of fucked up and they can't do that. So if they can make a reasonable

change in order to meet some of those needs, great. And then usually if there's like a honeymoon period, right, where therapists call honeymoon periods mutual positive projection periods, because you're just like projecting all the positivity on each other and looking at all the good things. And sure, you have rose tinted glasses on, which means that all the red flags are just flags. But like still, you're supposed to really lean into the honeymoon period because it creates a bunch of trust that creates that really strong foundation so that when you're out of the honeymoon period and really get to see who you are, then you can lean on something that you've built for the past six months or something. So typically when we get out of the

honeymoon period, that's when we get all the good information of, are we a good match? And I guess this is a conversation that might happen quite early on for some people. So, you know, big deal breakers, like, do you want kids? Like, how do you want the mechanics of this relationship to work how important do you think it is that if somebody what they want in their life doesn't align in what they're saying to you versus how you feel about the relationship how important is it to kind of I guess maybe step back or put the brakes on because I think one of the big things is is we get questions around people who are like they're forged headfirst into relationships they're deeply in love but their lives just don't align or something has

gone and it's like how did you get to two years of dating and not know that you guys didn't he didn't want to have kids or whatever it was how important do you think it is to kind of lead with your head over your heart in those situations i think it's super important i'm into making lists but mostly lists that have deal breakers on them not lists of like a hundred different things that you're fantasizing about in a relationship but do you want kids what is your relationship style where do you want to live? What's the most important thing to you in a relationship? And write that down and stick to it. The problem is, is that we make that list of deal breakers and non-negotiables. And most often, once somebody shows us their red flag or their deal breaker,

we're like, eh, fuck it. We make an allowance. We wipe it off the list. You make an allowance. Yeah. Yeah. And it's so interesting. You learn so much about yourself when you decide to throw that list away like are you feeling desperate are you feeling like your needs don't matter are you abandoning yourself and just like i'm just gonna be here for them like what the fuck is going on here because you're gonna regret it and it's also the people that typically are like i love our big differences like i'm a night owl and and he's an early bird and i'm an extrovert and and they're an introvert and they list all these opposites and they're like because it balances us out i'm like no motherfucker you're gonna be fighting about that shit in six months

to a year i guarantee it you're gonna find yourself in my office and you're gonna be so far apart like i'm super liberal and they're really conservative but it's like oh no there's no way to compromise on some of these things right yeah so it's really important to use your head yeah so all of a sudden you're like well monogamy and loyalty is not the most important thing so you scrapped that off the list you're like we'll deal with it what's your thought around i mean differentiating the honeymoon phase and that chemistry bombardment and love bombing and on that is love bombing always such a negative thing because when we use it it's negative like oh he's love bombing you instead of you know oh my god it's a it's a love bomb like he's just show yeah

like can you differentiate between it being positive and negative and then the difference between love bombing and honeymoon? Yeah, that's a great question. I think that when you're receiving love bombs and it's a bad thing, usually you're getting love bombed and it's going to be used for manipulation. It's going to be used to control you. It's going to be used so that you get addicted to them. It's going to be used so that you're just like, oh my God, this is the only person for me. And oh my God, they check all of my boxes. They are perfect. And they're showering me with all the love and care and sexiness that I deserve. And so if it starts to make you feel like they are the only one for me and nothing else

matters and now I'm starting to give up important parts of my life to spend even more time like I'm not spending time with my friends or I'm not going to school or I'm not doing work very well or whatever. If you start to get like you crave their love bombs that they give you sporadically because they're also training you like they train a good dog where they're only going to show up randomly or they're not going to give you like a schedule or you can't count on them. But when they do show up, oh my God, the best sex of your life, right? So that's when love bombs are not great. But there's kind of like a lower version of love bombing, which is just like,

I really like you. And there's so many green flags here because we have so many interests that are in common. Our values really sync up. We want the same things out of life. We have really good banter. Oh, I'm so excited for us, right? We are noticing the things that you're complimenting each other on that are good matches instead of I'm love bombing you and nobody will ever love you the way that I'm loving you. You know what I mean? How do you see the difference though? I think that's the big thing because you know what, and I guess I talk about from my own personal experience my relationship with my now husband worked out great he's amazing but I would have said we would have we because we were always in contact we were like text each other every second

of the day it was a very different situation but had it not ended amazingly someone would look back on that and go well that was love bombing like how do you see the red flags amongst the green flags usually like a red flag love bomb is not consistent so it'll it'll only come every now and then. If you're both telling each other how much you like each other consistently, regularly, you're both love-bombing each other with the same amount of energy, then that's great. We love to see it. But if you start to feel like you're addicted to it, and if you don't get the love bomb, then you have a bad day or you're really sad, then that's not a great sign. This is also, if you ask your friends honestly, if they think that you're getting love-bombed,

usually if you ask them like do you think i'm changing do you think i'm not actually the person who i really am around them do you think i'm not showing up as my authentic self when i'm with them if your friends are like yes i'm concerned for you then that's something to take seriously you've made me just realize that i started my relationship like all wrong first of all it was 100 love bombing like we were mutual and it was and it was consistent 100 the difference yeah it was consistent presence texting every day calling each other all day like everything that you would want but then also I think we got together because I made it really hard for him was like I don't really want that I don't want long distance I'm not into it so I feel like I did everything that

we've talked about here that you shouldn't do I think I did that there's always an exception to the rule like this isn't encouraging no but I think that that's the problem is right is that so many of us think we're going to be the exception or we think that that relationship because we've created this situation in our head where we've gotten so attached to the potential that we see in a relationship rather than what that person's actually giving us. And then if you were to actually write it down on paper, what that person's giving you versus what the relationship could be, if just this one thing changed or just that one thing changed, and then they're actually completely worlds apart. Whereas like for you, Britt, that wasn't the case. Like

you guys consistently have shown up in your relationship. Yeah. The obsession was equal. was equal yeah i mean that's what matters i think that that in conversation specifically around love bombing is so interesting because when you're in it it's so hard to see the trees through the forest it's so hard to know that that's something that's toxic until you're too far gone and their behavior changes so much and by then you're just scrambling to try and get any kind of scraps of their attention but putting the brakes on that is really really challenging it is and there's also like love bombing can happen and it can be okay as long as you're not using it to have power over that person or make them crazy or crave you or something there's kind of like uh if you really

like each other and you're really excited about each other and you're both love bombing each other that's fine that then that's like that's a lot of honeymoon stuff so i'm okay with it as long as you're not an evil person yeah then you're gonna be okay most likely do you think like for people have experienced and we've done a lot of conversations around like dating narcissists and i feel like that's a term that gets branded around a lot but do you think that there are people who literally wake up in the morning with the conscious intent of manipulating that person or do you think it is just a byproduct of their own shitty behavior because we always kind of talk about it in this way that it's like this very methodical thing but i'm like surely these it's just like one

fucked up person dating another fucked up person and then the chaos of their relationship is kind of what unfolds? I don't think that they wake up thinking like, I'm going to do some fantastic manipulation today. I think that they're probably deeply insecure people and this is how they're operating to try to get power and control and they don't know any better. And it's most likely because of their trauma or that's just their DNA or their family or whatever it is. And they never learned relationship skills and we can we can probably blame their family or their parents or whatever fuck you parents yeah fuck you parents but they never took responsibility and and changed it and they probably got a ton of feedback that they just ignored so no it usually comes from

like if you're a narcissistic you're deeply insecure and you can't admit it yeah wow A question and topic we get all the time that constantly proves very divisive here, so I'd love your opinion on it. Cheating. Is cheating the end of the world for a relationship or do you sometimes think that it can be used as a tool to work through and make the relationship better? Well, I will say that there's research to back this up and my own personal experience working with clients there's over i think it's like over 66 percent of people so two-thirds of people that get cheated on or there's infidelity in their relationship they stay together and work it out and and they're okay in the end uh so there's that stat where like most people actually

stay together i think that there's this belief that if you do get cheated on the relationship should be over that's it fuck it you're gone and there's i mean you know it's a really big betrayal It's incredibly hurtful. Usually when there's infidelity and that couple comes into my office, I've seen those folks hundreds of times. And a lot of times they want to go back to what the relationship used to be before the cheating. And I'm like, sorry, babe, but that is not possible. That relationship is over. So how are we going to create a new relationship and a new chapter moving forward so if you can if you can do that which it takes a lot of work then it can be like the relationship can be just as strong or stronger than ever and it's going to be okay but a lot of

it is determined on the cheater like does the cheater there's so many times one of the first questions i ask when that cheating couple comes into the session is i'll ask the cheater why'd do it. And I'm hoping and praying that they can be like, oh, this is why I did it. Because then we don't have to spend the next 10 to 30 sessions going through like, if they say, I don't know why I did it, well then fuck, it's going to happen again then maybe. If you have no idea why this happened and you can't take accountability and understand how you got from point A to point B and how you made those decisions to do all those cheats, then we're not going to get, you might as well just not even be here anymore. So if they know why they did it,

if they can take accountability, if they can understand the harm and the damage and the betrayal and the fucked up trust that is now created because of those decisions, then there's a possibility for healing. The other part is that the person who got cheated on, and I want to disclaimer here, I am not doing victim blaming. And even if there is a problem in the relationship that should not constitute cheating, but the person that got cheated on, is there anything that they did in order to contribute to the problem that eventually led to the infidelity? Again, you shouldn't have been cheated on, but you are probably part of the system that helped to create the situation where there was cheats. So as long as we can all

be honest, take accountability, be empathetic, turn a new page, then I've seen these relationships be stronger than ever, but it takes a lot of emotional work. It's also cheating is like maybe only one of the things in relationships where you have to be 100% perfect. There's all these other things that we do in relationships where we're not 100% perfect, whether it's like losing our temper or washing the dishes or not picking up the kid, whatever. You're just like, all right, fine. But if you do one little cheat, fuck it, we're done. This is over. And there was, I was talking to, I think Dan Savage was on my podcast, you know, Dan Savage? Yeah.

He's like a sex relationship all-star here in the Pacific Northwest. And he told his husband, he was like, look, if we're going to have a kid, then what I need is to have a guarantee that if one of us cheats if i cheat on you then that doesn't mean that we're automatically done because i don't want to fuck over that kid if i accidentally cheat on you but if you're like accidentally slipping to someone accidentally if i somehow find myself inside of someone with someone else's it's so funny because you saying that i know that there'll be people listening to that who would have interpreted it as a get out of jail free card like well okay you've said that now I'm going to do it. But that's not what this is. No, he's just like, I'm he's like,

I'm not going to expect either one of us are going to be perfect. And so I want to make sure that we stay together forever for our kid that we're going to have, which means that we have to like not have this huge, the relationship is over if we cheat on each other. And it's and it's mostly because the definition of cheating is different for everybody. And it evolves. And it's usually the thing that I ask people to ask once you define the relationship you should ask what does cheating look like to you what does cheating count as and then you can like figure out if you're on the same page or if you have to make a compromise we're not saying be in relationships where you're being cheated on continuously we're not saying stay in relationships where you know you there's no trust

what we're saying is is when two people show up in a relationship and if you know there has been infidelity but they are wanting to be committed to that relationship and their their actions are also aligned they're not just saying that they want to be committed and still going out with the boys on Friday night and you they don't fucking text you and you don't know where they are two different things but I understand why people work through that and now also as a parent my opinions of it have changed and that doesn't invalidate how fucking hard it is though when it happens in your relationship I can't even comprehend it's fucking really really challenging No, but the reaction, I think, is what is the make or break, right?

Like the reaction to any situation, but in a cheating or infidelity situation, if they're going to gaslight you, say it's your fault, be like, what did you think was going to happen? Like, you know, let's stay together. But if there's no accountability, responsibility, ownership, then the relationship's not right. You're probably not going to work through the cheating. But if they do come to you, Jeff, and say, this is why I did it,

this is why I never want to do it again, this is why I want to work through it, then, yeah, then your relationship probably can be repaired. So I don't want anyone to think that I am out here advocating for cheating, like fucking go fuck around and make it work. Go fuck around and see Jeff. Cheating and games, Britt. Right. It is kind of a generational thing too.

I think that younger folks who haven't been in as many relationships are just like, no, you cheat on me, I'm out, which I get. But as you get older and you start to like see that relationships get more complicated or there's, you don't want to leave a relationship if there's cheating because you've been together for 15 years and you have kids and a home and an intertwined life you know then you're gonna be like well okay i think maybe we can work through this and it's understandable in a in some sort of way so there's also like the younger you are the more you're like i'm not going to take this the older you are the more you're like can we work through this absolutely the only other thing i

think is probably something that and i can't remember who said it but it was such a good take on it we have this opinion that if there was cheating there must never have been love like they can't possibly love you if they treat you like that and those two things aren't mutually exclusive like everything is so gray that like it doesn't one doesn't rule the other one out which i think is such an important thing to keep perspective on especially if you are in that situation where you've been together for 15 years you have children that one incident doesn't mean that everything else about your life was a lie and that's kind of what society tells us when it comes to these situations i agree jeff what else can people get from big dating energy i mean i

know we've covered a lot of it here but who are the people that are going to come for this book uh well if you like my rant on blaming your parents there's a whole fucking chapter where i talk about how it's your parents fault and then there's another chapter after that where i blame everybody else hollywood reality shows uh your teachers whoever like i so there's a lot of like focus on who we can blame and then it starts to i start to gaslight you into thinking that that's what the whole book is going to be about until I'm just like, actually, you need to take responsibility for your shit. And this is how you can do it. And then I go into the, all right, fine. You want to get out there? Here's the first things that you can do. Do you want to use those

shitty dating apps? Here's some tips. Do you want to meet people in real life? Here's even more tips. And we start going through the first few dates, the honeymoon period, after the honeymoon period, how to be in long-term relationships. All of those stages of the relationship, I get into how you can do it in a really healthy way where you're not abandoning yourself, you're being really authentic, you're getting those needs met, but you're healing and growing within those relationships. I think there's a lot of people that are like, oh, I have to be healed and reach a certain healthy place and then I can start dating. But you do the healing within the relationship most of the time. So it's me trying to nudge you in order to do that. I get into how

to have healthy fights and conflict i get into like how to get through all the like sexy issues that you're having uh in relationship and then one of my favorite chapters is the breakup chapter so how to get through it if you get broken up but how to break up with somebody in a really ethical honest straightforward way because there are so many bad breaker uppers out there it's so hard though isn't it like everyone knows kind of how to deal with being broken up with because it happens to you so you just have to go through it though when you're the person who has to do the breaking up especially when the person you're dating is a good person like they've not done anything wrong it's the worst they're kind you care about them you don't want to see them

cry that is i think the hardest well it's not as hard as being broken up with but it's it's it is so hard and there are people there are people who stay in relationships for years and they are unhappy yeah because they can't do they can't break up i did it i stayed in a relationship for over a year and a half i did it too i think we all do it and it was so dead in the water but i couldn't break up with them yeah it's so hard if you want to break up with someone get the book yeah big dating energy you're gonna love it thanks for your time today jeff we really appreciate it we're gonna put all the links in our show notes for anyone that wants to go and find more thank you

We'll be right back.