Life Uncut - You Don’t Need to Fix Your Kids — You Need to Heal Yourself. Uncut with Dr Shefali

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

We are the self help generation. There is so much access to information on how to better ourselves, work through all the sh*t from our childhoods, and break cycles. Today’s episode is going to be particularly interesting to anyone who is a parent, but even if you don’t have kids yourself, it will help you understand some of the psychology of your own experiences growing up and how those experiences show up in our day to day lives. Dr. Shefali is joining us today and she has been described by Oprah herself as “one of the most profound parenting experts of our time”.  With a doctorate in clinical psychology, Dr Shefali is a New York Times bestselling author multiple times over, and the founder of the Conscious Parenting movement. Much of her work centers around healing a lot of the stuff that we are carrying with us from our childhood into our adult lives - and how it shows up in our parenting styles. She also answers one of the biggest parenting questions we tend to ask ourselves - how to build resilience in kids in today’s chaotic world.  We chat: How Dr Shefali’s work was revolutionary at the time, but we are now immersed in it Our ego gets in the way when we are parenting How much of our experience as a parent is impacted by our own childhood The real reason children have tantrums Our kids don’t need the ‘heavily architectured’ lives we give them full of extra curricular activities every day Building resilience in kids and how to find the balance Unpacking our challenging relationships with our parents Is parenting actually a selfless act?   You can get yourself a ticket to Dr Shefali’s tour SydneyMelbourne You can find more from Dr Shefali’s website and Instagram    You can watch us on Youtube Find us on Instagram Join us on tiktok Or join the Facebook Discussion Group Hosted by Britt Hockley & Laura Byrne Produced by Keeshia Pettit Video Produced by Vanessa Beckford Recorded on Cammeraygal Land Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! XxSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode was recorded on Camaragal land. Hi guys and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura. I'm Brittany. Now I have said it many times on this podcast and that is that we are the self-help generation of the times. A lot of us have been to therapy, a lot of us are trying to unpack the shit that we went through in our own childhoods to try and be better versions of ourselves and also break cycles. Now, this conversation that we're having today is going to center quite largely around parenting, around how we parent our own children. But also, if you don't have kids,

I think it's really an important one to listen to because it's not just a reflection of how we parent as parents, but also reflecting on the relationship that we have with our own parents and how it was that we were raised and the impact that that has on us. Dr. Shefali is joining us today. And she has been described by Oprah herself as one of the most profound parenting experts of our time. With a doctorate in clinical psychology, Dr. Shefali is a New York Times bestselling author multiple times over. She is the founder of the conscious parenting movement. And so much of her work centers around healing a lot of the stuff that we all carry with us from our childhood into adult lives and how it shows up in our parenting styles. Whether you are a helicopter parent,

whether you are somebody who is overscheduling your children's life or you're wanting to build deeper connection with your kids. Today, we're also answering one of the biggest parenting questions that we tend to ask ourselves, which is how do you build resilience in kids in today's very, very chaotic world? Dr. Shefali, welcome to the pod. I'm so excited to be here. Now, for anyone who's not familiar with your work, can you explain to all of our listeners what your teachings of conscious parenting is? Yeah. Well, you know, when I started teaching conscious parenting, you know, 12, 15 years ago, no one was talking about the unconsciousness of the parent and the parent's ego. So I was really breaking ground at that time. So in a nutshell,

conscious parenting really flipped the traditional paradigm of parenting, which used to focus on fixing the child and creating this golden child and, you know, focused on the child's achievements and who they would be when they grow up. And my work just turned everything on its head and kind of revolutionized the way parenting was taught back then and really focused on the parent raising themselves, that you have to raise yourself to a higher level of consciousness. Now, when I say this for, you know, your age group,

you must be like, yeah, well, what's so revolutionary about that? Because you're immersed in the oceans of this language now. But let me tell you, when I started this, you know, way back, I'm talking like 15 years ago, this was unheard of and parents would get really triggered and provoked. And I was told to like back off and leave parents alone. And it was really breaking ground at that time. We didn't have Facebook even back then. And I was just parent to parent, you know, going around in this grassroots movement, trying to pioneer this new movement. And now it's such a thing out there, right? Conscious parenting is such a well-known phenomenon. And I'm so grateful to everyone who's taken to it because when the parent raises themselves to a higher level of consciousness, and what does that mean? That means they look at themselves in the mirror, they do the inner work, they see their child as a mirror to the ways that they still have to grow up and their unhealed parts and they look at their ego and see their expectations and understand that they're projecting on their child and all that stuff was breaking ground back then. And that's what I teach. And it's really created a movement now out in the world. And this is what I help parents with. I have a coaching institute. I have tons of courses. I'm coming to Australia on a tour. I go around the world and parents really understand.

And the reason why parents understand it, even though their ego gets hit really hard, is because they were children once and they were the vessels of their parents' projections. So they see how harmful that can be and they want to break the pattern. What is it about conscious parenting? And when you say the ego gets hit really hard, what is it about conscious parenting? And I guess the teachings of it that are so hard for parents to be able to come on board with or there's resistance about like, what is it that is the thing you get the most pushback? Well, there's many layers of it that are very provoking. So at a very basic layer, I teach that your expectations of your child often have nothing to do with the essence of who your child is and all to do with your own unfulfilled fantasies, your own unfulfilled life.

So because you haven't lived out your life, you project those expectations on your child. Now, that could be in all sorts of ways. So, for example, if your child comes home and says, oh, you know, I mean, the child is in third grade and the child didn't get invited to the popular kid's birthday party, your unhealed self around belonging, around being part of a group, around being cool and hip and worthy, your issues are going to come up. But if you're unconscious and you're not even aware, you will begin reacting in all sorts of unconscious egoic ways and not even realize that it's your unhealed self that is in the driver's seat and you're actually not even helping your child. so you may say things like oh my goodness you know let me call the teacher this is not okay and this is not fair and your child is like okay like maybe it's not such a big deal but now I'm thinking it's a big deal because my mother is going apeshit crazy right so that's just one example or you may buy the baby grand piano and you may buy the orchestra and you may buy the

skiing tickets and your child is not even four years old, right? And you may think, oh, I'm doing all this because I want my child to be well-rounded and, you know, really, you know, exposed to all sorts of things. Actually, it could just be your lack, right? And the child is actually okay being who they are. And many times we impose on our children all sorts of control and expectations that come from our fear and our unworthiness so at that level is provoking enough for the parent just to to ask themselves you know am I doing this because it's really my child who's asking for it or am I doing it because I'm projecting that they need this so I guess on a I mean on a more basic level maybe more grown-up level it's like maybe you didn't have the opportunity as a

parent when you were younger to go and get a secondary education you really want your child to go to university or college, whatever it is, your child doesn't want to go. So you're trying to encourage that pusher. You'll pay for them, whatever it is. But how do you differentiate between trying to put your child in a box because maybe you missed out on an opportunity? Because we can all think of how many times our parents said, you know, you should be grateful for the opportunity. I never had that chance. But how do you differentiate between that projecting maybe your issues onto your child and also just wanting the best for your child because an education will lead to a good job, which would lead to good money, which would hopefully lead to stability

and happiness. How can you differentiate those? Yeah, it's an easy way to differentiate. But again, one has to be aware of oneself. If one is not self-aware, you're not going to be able to differentiate anything. But the way to differentiate is to really ask yourself a pivotal question. Am I operating right now from a fear-based place or an abundance-based place? And when you are attuned with your child, your partner, your friend, you are in alignment with what is naturally emerging from them and you allow them to be a few steps ahead and you are following closely and you're listening deeply. But when you're projecting and when you are just imposing and you're coming like just out of your own unconsciousness, but you're not aware, then it's full of fear. It's full of control. It's it's pushing, pushing, pushing. And there's stress and there's anxiety and there's tension.

And that's really the way, you know, in any life choice, whether you are following into deep alignment with the soul's calling, so to speak, or you are pushing against something because culture tells you that that's what's good or expected of you. I think for myself with my own sort of motherhood and parenting journey, one of the big things about becoming a mum for me was that it held a mirror up to my childhood experiences. And that stuff comes out. I think anyone, either you're conscious that it does come out or you're denying it. but the way in which you were parented, your experiences as a child, you have these moments where you're then placed as the parent and you're talking to your children or getting triggered by them, or you feel that overwhelming feeling of like frustration or whatever it is. And it kind of like makes you either have empathy for your parents or it makes you resent the way that they

parented. How much of our, I guess, our experience as parents is formed by what it is that we experienced as kids? Oh my God. I would say all of it until and unless you have deconstructed your own past patterns and really looked in the mirror and really observed yourself and reflected on how is this moment right now really about me and my past versus my child before me most of us don't even connect to the person before us in any relationship most of us are stooped in deep projection we're just sunken in this projected mirage and we call it reality but it's not it's it's a drama being played in our mind and that's what waking up is waking up is realizing you've been a zombie in a mirage and you've just been projecting onto the world and not realizing that

you are the one who is enacting the drama. You've been thinking it's the external situation. It's the child. I got upset because my child was obnoxious and I got really angry because my partner was an asshole. No, it's you. You are enacting your own internal drama and projecting it onto the screen of the world and understanding this is the key to awakening it's the difference between a seeker and a non-seeker between being asleep and being awake and it's it's a trip you know and and most people are zombies and they don't realize that they are the architects of their own reality they truly think that the other on the outside is the evil person and the reason for their problems. Dr. Shivali you're you're a mom yourself and your daughter is in her 20s now

what was it about your parenting experience like did you have a shift yourself where you realized these are the techniques that are working for me or was there a great reflection that you had on your own upbringing that made you realize okay mate I want to break the cycle yeah all of it so you know I was a psychologist before I was a parent so I began observing in my clients that holy shit the first 10 years of your life really mark you and shape you and all I'm doing in adult therapy is undoing the first 20 years of your life, right? The whole adult life is about undoing the first 20 years and the belief systems of the first 10 years. And then I became a parent and, you know, like all, you know, naive and delusional parents, we think, oh, we are going to be amazing,

right? We're not going to be doing this nonsense and we're going to have angel children and we're going to be awesome. And then your first meltdown happens and you realize, I have no control over my emotions. This three-year-old has gotten the best of me. I'm losing my mind. And then you have an opportunity. And this happened to me. My daughter was three. I was losing my mind. I saw her spirit deflate in front of my very eyes. And I was like, oh my goodness, you promised you would do the in a work and here you are vomiting all over your child and out of control and that's when I made a pledge that I needed to change my patterns because I knew this would happen I just didn't think I was that weak that it would happen to me you know I thought I was better than what I was and this is

the arrogance of the parent right and becoming humble and realizing with deep compassion for the self that this is almost unavoidable because you have never met this child before and you've never been in this moment before. So you have to give grace to yourself and allow yourself to really collapse, but then be willing to do the work. So this all this happened to me. And I then realized, oh, my goodness, you know, I meditate, and I meditate on my ego. And I had no idea that the ego would show up in my parenting. No one was talking about it back then, you know, and And parents are pedestalized and almost, you know, sanctified as these holy creatures because we, quote unquote, love our children. It's as if we are absolved of unconsciousness.

And I now have come to see that love has nothing to do with it. In fact, love your child less. Just be more conscious. You know, don't talk about love. Love is bastardized as a term. And it's almost as if we excuse ourselves. But I love you. Who cares?

You know, you're an asshole. you know you go fix yourself go do something with yourself heal yourself don't tell me you love me show me through your actions through your healing that you are accepting me I want you to accept me I don't care about whether you love me or not you know there's a big difference and all of these teachings came to me through my own parenting journey and I've written seven books now and many more to go I have two more coming out next year because there's so much to uncover about this and we need to allow parents to heal. Just as something tangible and practical here,

if we just take a sidestep, as a psychologist, for every mum listening right now that has a three-year-old that is having that tantrum, you're in the middle of the supermarket, they're having this absolute meltdown, you're at your limit, what as a professional is your advice in that situation? Because we hear a lot about maybe this is the time that you teach your child that they can't behave like this and you hear a lot of gentle parenting where people say,

let them feel their emotions, ignore them, walk away. What is some practical advice in that minute? Well, the first thing you have to know is that you are raising a child. What that means is you have to understand their brain development. So children act out obnoxiously and unreasonably and irrationally for three reasons only. So if you get this in your head, then you go through the three reasons and you go, oh, this is probably the reason why my child is acting like a lunatic, now I can take action. So what are the three reasons? First one is they simply haven't had enough practice. So you take them to a supermarket aisle and you think, oh, I'm just going to hop in and buy a few things. You don't realize this is like, you know, crack, cocaine.

It's like so much stimulation and the child cannot handle it, right? I remember when I first came from India, and I ordered a sandwich in America. In India, you only had white plastic rubber bread. And that's all you got as your sandwich choice, right? And I came to this fancy deli in San Francisco. And they were like, Oh, you want a sandwich? I was like, Yeah. Literally, I ran away from the shop because I had a meltdown. Because the choices they gave me, you know, poppy seed and sesame seed and rye and honey wheat and, you know, raisin bread. And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? I don't even know what you're talking. I just have a sandwich, right? And I got overwhelmed and I was 21. So this is what we're doing to our children. And

then we expect them to behave. So the first thing we did wrong is take our children to the supermarket aisle and not expect a meltdown, right? Number two, the second reason why children act out and dissolve into a mess is because their brain literally doesn't have the skills to handle stress or delays or frustration. Their executive center of their brain is not developed. Big Swiss cheese holes all the way till 28. So you are living with somebody who is really feral and wild, who every 20 minutes is going to fall apart. So if you understand that, then you're like, let me arm myself for the worst, right? But that's what parents are like, so naive. They're like, oh, let's go have a great day at the beach. And then it's a shit show because they're not

prepared for the child to be terrified of a snail and of a shell and of every drop of water. And they're like, why are you getting scared? Well, because their brain cannot process this shit, right? And the third reason why they act out is because they don't feel safe. They don't feel connected. They have unworthiness, right? So they're not feeling safe. Now, if you understand this, then there's no point in teaching anything. You just have to remedy the situation. You go, ah, my child is overwhelmed. I either just clench my jaw through this raging tantrum and just suffer the stares of everyone and just tell everyone, yes, I'm a loser mom and just move on with the day. Or you fix it. You don't go, you call for help, you go out, but you manage it.

There's nothing to teach. The child simply cannot handle this situation. You have put them in a situation that is beyond their capacity and their pay grade. They cannot handle it. Now, of course, later, you can practice going to the aisle and practice at home what it means to go to school. Practice. The best way to handle these situations is you prepare your child through role plays. But even if you role play the hell out of a situation, the child is still an undeveloped brain who can only handle so much. And the minute you put in too much hunger, too much heat, too much frustration, you have an explosion. I love the example you just gave because I feel like every single parent can relate to the fact that you've just spent all morning getting the kids ready.

you got to the beach and then all of them are screaming at you because their legs are itchy and they're cold and you've been there for 10 minutes. And then there's this feeling of as a parent, you're like, Oh, I've done all this stuff for you today. And you're so ungrateful. Like that's the, that's kind of like where the brain first goes to when you're like, we went to the movies, we went and did this thing. And now what you're doing is screaming at me. And it's, it's so hard to separate those feelings when as a parent, you do feel as though you're giving, as in you give and give and give. That's the problem. That is the problem. Children don't need to be given at this age till nine and 10, like minimize the giving because it's actually

too overwhelming. And then we are resentful. So this heavily architectured life that we've created for our children, oh, you go to dance on Tuesdays and then you go for the trombone on Wednesday. And then we go for yoga on Thursday and then we meditate it. Then we say the song and then we thank God and then we, you know, then we have a bath and then we, you know, hold hands. This is all our ego in motion. Children don't even need it. It's actually not even good for them. And that's why if you understand what children need, child development, then you really simplify your parenting. You slow it down and you actually live happier and your child is actually okay. really okay. I talk about in my book, The Awakened Family, a situation where, you know,

my daughter was eight years old and I took her for her first structured dance class. And the woman at the counter, the receptionist said, oh, okay, you know, she will, she can join the three-year-olds on Tuesday evening. And I was like, no, no, ma'am, you don't understand. She's eight years old. and she looked at me and she said no you don't understand if this is her first dance class she has to be with the three-year-olds and I was like wow did everyone get this memo like how is my kid the only kid who is starting at eight I thought that was a healthy time to start but apparently everyone's already performing at Carnegie Hall you know I was like way behind I felt so bad for my kid. I was like, you know what? She will just do solo activities. So she

just did horse riding and tennis because she was behind everything, apparently. All the team sports, she was way behind. And I was just praying that she wouldn't realize that her mother fucked it up so badly. I was six years behind the curve already at eight. But this is the insanity of our culture. It is not normal. Children don't need activities every single day for us to feel like we are, you know, achieving parents. And parents will then say to me, well, then how will they be exposed? So I said, you know, who decides how much they should be exposed to? I said, what about underwater scuba diving off the Maldives? And what about back flipping through the Alps at eight? And what about, you know, there are a million things they should be exposed to, but

does that mean we should and what what happens to just being and connecting and being in solitude and with your imagination what happened to playing with the kitchen utensils like what happened to that you know so we become these egoic maniacs and we are living out a resume through our children how do you find a balance as a parent between supporting their interests and wanting to like build resilience in your children and wanting them to have a sense of purpose or drive and also recognizing, okay, this is not actually what is best for the child. This is because I want them to do it. Or this is because I thought it would be great for them to go to soccer, or I thought it would be great for them to do this activity. How do you as a parent really sit with yourself

and go, okay, these sit in two different camps? Yeah, I think we are focused too much on raising adults in childhood. Childhood is its own stage of development and children are not mini adults. They're children. They're not mini adults. And that's a big mind shift that people need to understand. And it's because we have fear and anxiety that we're going to mess this up, that we're not going to raise, you know, functional human beings, because actually we are doubting our own capacity. And we're so terrified that they'll be living in our basement, that we are like, go, go, go, do, do, do, achieve, achieve, achieve, don't give up. But listen, childhood is a time for exploration and for connection to the self and other. And we're missing that connection

piece. And connection to the self is what creates ultimate resilience and anti-fragility. Not disconnection from the self, but sticking through things that your parents say, you know, create resilience and grit. Resilience comes from inner connection, from like, I'm worthy, I'm capable, I'm good, put me anywhere, and I have me, right? That is what creates grit and resilience. But if they are constantly puppeteered by the outside supervisor, and the taskmaster, AI, you know, the parent or, you know, the machine or the technology or whatever's on the outside, you know, AI today or whatever gimmick today, they are not going to find that inner connection. And that's what, in my opinion, creates the greatest resilience. So that's what you want to focus on

in childhood, not the doing, but the being. And this is very, again, another provocative thing for high achieving type A parents who have made a project out of their role and they think it's their next calling, their next PhD. And they want to win a prize at parenting through their children and their children are trophy children. And parents get very provoked when I say this, because they don't want to look at that ego that is in the room. And then I show it to them and then they get depressed and they feel guilty. Then they're really ashamed. And I'm like, now you're making it about you again. But it's the truth. I have worked with families for 30 years now, and I have deeply observed how egoic the parent is. And then the child grows up to be

an adult, like we were, going to therapy, looking for their authentic self, when they had the authentic self, but they were told that that wasn't enough. So they created the egoic self, the false self, which was to get the validation and the crumbs of approval and love from the outside world, which is everybody's disease. And where does it start? It starts when the parent imposes on the child, the parent's unfinished self and the unhealed self. You mentioned fear and anxiety before and fear and anxiety lead to control, which you've spoken about in your books. But for example, let's just go and use like a public speaking event. You put your child in public speaking because it's really good for them,

the whole class is doing it your child doesn't want to do it they're beside themselves I'm scared to do it all the feelings I have anxiety I don't want to go out there but you know as a parent that like this is going to help set them up for their life you know that they're going to learn a skill you know that there's going to be times that they're fearful how do you then get to the point of saying okay you know what you you don't want to do it don't do it or look I know deep down as a parent this is going to be better for you like I know it's going to help you build the resilience I guess I have I'm having trouble understanding where that line is of letting a child just be but also saying, you know, well, a child is a child.

They're not a small adult. Yeah. At first, I think there is no line. It's a very curvy situation of shifting sand, right? But here's the thing. You're asking it from a mind space, from the outside. When you're in it and you're practicing conscious parenting, you are connected to your child.

You're understanding them from within them. So most of us are parenting from outside in. conscious parenting teaches you to tune into who the child is now here's the thing you said another thing you said is i know that this is going to be good for you this statement is not true we don't know now we think it will it could actually end up being the most traumatizing thing in their life i'm just saying not everyone is a public speaker not everyone needs to be a public speaker we have to go with who your child is for example parents will come to me and say well you know they they should learn the piano because it's so good for their you know inter-hemispheric

integration you know and i'm like you don't know you yes it's probably good but if you traumatize them to do it it's probably not good now here's the way i create the line that you're looking for it's really easy i ask myself and i ask parents to ask this question is this a life enhancing skill or is it an ego-enhancing skill? Now, how do I know what is what? A life-enhancing skill are life's basics that the tribal people did when we were living in tribes to now, sleeping, community, breathing, eating,

cleaning yourself, hygiene, compassion, laughter. These are the basics. Anything over that could be good, but it's not absolutely mandatory. And if you keep it really simple, I'm telling you, it just takes away the anxiety of my kids should do this and my kids should do that. And how many shoulds? How many shoulds? Should be a world traveler and a trombone player and a puppeteer and a singer and a dancer. And Mother Teresa and Michael Phelps, how much Should this poor child be? So life enhancing skills in today's modern world would be, you know, very much to do with community, very much to do with connection to self, very much to do with reading, writing and literacy and basic hygiene and swimming, taking care.

you know, so if you drown, and basically, you know, knowing basic survival skills. If you've done that well, which is a lot to do, let me tell you, because community is a big piece of this, learning to live in community and connection. Again, I come back to connection before correction, connection before doing. If you take care of that, then your child will be more confident and be a better public speaker than not. Your child will be more resilient. Your child will find what drives them to purpose. They don't need to find purpose as a child in the way we adults do, because their purpose as a child is to be that completely in the body, in nature, moving, living, breathing,

right? That's what did our tribal people do? Our communities, they were out in nature all the time. Look how little our kids are in nature, right? we're focusing on, on tasks and achievements, but we're leaving out the most basic ingredients that make a healthy human being. You know, you said something earlier around kids growing up and then being in therapy, which I mean, to be fair, we probably are the therapy generation. Most of us have either been or seeking it out or, you know, listening to self-help podcasts

and everything else. But it reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend of mine recently, and he is an incredibly high achiever. He owns a multi-million dollar business. Like he's very successful. And recently he's really been unpacking some challenging relationships with his parents. And the fact that he's come to realize that probably the only reason why he's as ambitious as he is, is because so much of his relationship with his parents was that he felt as though if he wasn't achieving, he wasn't lovable. And so he's been chasing this thing his whole life and doesn't quite understand where that all came from. What would you say to someone who has kind of, and I don't want to put blame on parents because I feel like parents, they're doing what

has been done to them. And it's just this, you know, we're all doing the best that we can with our very first experience of parenting. But what would be your advice to someone who has come to the realization or who's always known it along, I guess, but that the way they were parented, and that the childhood that they experienced wasn't necessarily ideal or the relationship with that they have with their parents is more fractured than it is healing? Well, to some extent, all of us will find some negatives about our childhood. The point is not to go, aha, you see, I found, yeah, exactly. You did this to me, mom. Exactly. It's to understand that that is the nature of parenting. Sometimes you get real

unconsciousness. Sometimes you get less unconsciousness. It's a crapshoot. It's about owning your story, understanding what forces shaped you, and then waking up to realize that you are now in the driver's seat and you get to curate the next few decades of your life through making more intentional choices. It's not about finding blame. Or even I tell many, many clients that you don't need to get your father or your mother to say sorry. It's in the past. They did the best they could with the consciousness they had. What you need to do now is reparent yourself. You need to understand that they could only do what they could do. And now you get the opportunity to do what they couldn't do. And you have to architect that. And parents,

you know, adults don't like to hear that because it's so much easier to stay in the misery of blame and to be a victim and a martyr. But that's never going to liberate you. True liberation comes from understanding that after the age of 18, 20, 25, you are co-creating now your own reality and you get to wake up and you get to heal and parent yourself in a way that your mother perhaps never could. It's interesting you say this because this is something that takes up a lot of space in my brain at the moment because we've been talking about it a lot just amongst ourselves. We're going to do an episode on it, but we are in this generation, this era of estrangement and emancipation from our parents and setting these boundaries. And like you did this to me when I

was a child so I don't have to have an association with you now and sometimes I hear people talk about it and I think are you crazy like are you going to cut your parents off for that in my brain I'm like that is such a small minute thing but I feel like we've been swept up in this like boundary setting and I'm going to look after myself and you don't serve me anymore as a parent so I love that you just said please don't place all the blame on your parents they were doing it themselves. But who's, as we get older, whose responsibility do you think it is to really maintain and nurture a relationship when it's no longer an adult and a child, it's an adult and an adult? Because you hear a lot of people, my friends included, say things like, well, you know,

they're not making the effort with me. So, you know, they should be the ones calling me, they're the parent. I personally don't believe that. I think you're an adult and you can come to the table equally. But what's your professional opinion on that? Oh, 100%. You know, my daughter's 22 and almost every day I tell her, you know, I know it's a big shock, but I'm no longer parent child, you know, like she keeps thinking she's my baby and that's very cute, but I'm like, okay, you're no longer a baby now. You are an adult and we have to adultify our children and parents have a role in that to let go of that baby and kind of push them over the threshold and encourage them to be sovereign and autonomous, as much as it is the responsibility of the baby to wake up and go,

my parents can retire from parenting. I cannot expect my parents to constantly parent me. There's a retirement age to parenting. You can retire. There's an expiration. Of course, you'll always be the loving one, the caring one. But no more that same hierarchical imbalance. I think parents need to wake up and say, I'm done parenting you in the way I used to. I'll always care, but you're not my responsibility anymore. And your unhappiness has to be in your lap now. And you cannot keep blaming me. I mean, you can do whatever you want, but I'm not going to take the blame anymore. It was what it was. I was who I was. And I'm with great compassion, forgiving myself. I teach parents, forgive yourself. If your child isn't forgiving you, give it to yourself.

and you tell your child, I'm emancipating myself from the guilt of my unconsciousness of when I was in my thirties and I didn't know any better. And I'm so sorry I did this to you and I'm owning it. I'm taking accountability, but I cannot be brutalized through this misery that you're placing on me to fix you now. I cannot fix what I didn't know how to fix back then. And I tell children, that time is over. Your time for the mother was done. She can never undo that or he can never undo that. So we have to move on. And that's just part of life. It's a journey and we have to keep walking ahead. And many therapists will do what you said, you know, encourage this kind of brutal, cold-hearted, you know, emancipation. And I think that's so sad and so

tragic because your parents are part of your legacy. You may not need to be with them. You may not need to spend a lot of time with them, but it's so silly to cut off from them, but it's better to understand them because when you understand where you came from, it enriches who you can be. You don't have to deal with them, but let's not, we don't have to also break free from them. Let's not close it off completely. Dr. Shival, you said something though in that, which I think is so, for a lot of people, it feels like it's an important piece and that is validation not that you need sorries but it can be really hard to maintain a relationship with a parent that either feels one-sided or you've been through a whole lot of shit as a kid and then

you've been denied any acknowledgement that that shit happened you know like I don't need to say sorry for that that didn't happen there's invalidation towards it I think like in those instances it can be really challenging for a grown-up to accept and meet their parent where they are, which is still in denial of everything that's happened. And how would you navigate those situations? Yeah. So absolutely. Part of what I teach in conscious parenting is for the parent to truly validate the child's experience, even if they don't agree with it, even if they had good reason, even if they're totally justified, it doesn't matter. We first truly honor where the child is, where they are, what they're saying. As with any relationship, you validate that person's

experience. I'm talking about the times when the child goes overboard and expects the parent to now forever be guilty, right? Then it becomes abusive. So we can abuse each other constantly, and we each have to own and acknowledge our part in it. Validation is so important. Now, you said, what if the parent keeps denying it, right? That is so hurtful to the child. I would say to that adult child to accept it. This is the reality of your parents' unconsciousness and stop seeking it anymore, right? You have to stop going to the dry well, to the empty well and expecting it to overflow with love. And I many times will have like almost like a symbolic burial of that fantasy of the mother that they simply will never have. And they have to let go of that fantasy and kind

of destroy that fantasy, kill the fantasy, say goodbye and grieve the mother that is simply not coming. I just was working with a woman whose mother's on her deathbed and she's still waiting for her mother to arrive. So it's complex, it's difficult, but there is a way to be healed through all this pain. There is a way. Yeah. And I mean, I really appreciate that perspective of it as well. And I say this because in my immediate family, my husband hasn't spoken to his father in 13 years. He's never met our children. I've never met him. And he had a really complicated childhood. There was abuse in there. There was a lot of horrible, horrible things that were said. And then as an adult, because of alcohol and not being able to remember it and

being able to rewrite his own stories, there's never been any accountability, only denial that had ever happened. And so that's been really hard for him to process. And the easiest way for him to process it is to say, he got to a point where he was like, I'm so sick of being constantly disappointed in my relationship. And I'm never, I don't have that in any other relationship in my life. And we have a wonderful relationship with his mom who lives with us. And so, yeah, that was a decision that he had to make. And so I guess I understand for some people when separation feels like it's the only option because I've seen it play out in my family. Yeah. I think that that's where you have to arrive at it through experience, through awareness. And if you just do it like a

knee jerk, like what you were saying, Laura, just if you do it like in a knee jerk, like I'm not talking to you, that's just so reactive and not coming from a place of healing. You know, when you really can see the unconscious baggage your parents are carrying and see them for their damaged inner self you almost can release them from from healing you because you realize this is a an empty shell of a human being who themselves are so void inside what can they ever give me you know i need to release the fantasy that they will rise up to give me what I've always yearned for. I know we're running out of time, Dr. Shefali, but one thing that I want to understand, a statement that you've made, I always thought that having children

was a selfless act. I always thought that parents and people were giving up, mothers particularly, giving up so much of who they are, their autonomy over their body, their life, their time. I saw that as quite a selfless thing, but you tend to disagree. Can you talk to me about why you don't think parenting is a selfless act? Yeah, it's a deep, deep statement. Let me explain. So there is tremendous duty, you know, sacrifice, giving up of the self, and an expansion of our heart with our children that we will simply begrudge doing for anyone else the way we do it for our children. There is an undeniable, this effort that we put forth for these beings. And there is a deep, deep care that is unmatched when you become a mother. Having said that, if we think for

a second that we are doing this because we're selfless, there is so much ego in that, that it becomes its own trap. So think about it. If I think I'm doing this for my child, like my child came to me in my dream and said, only your uterus, mother, you know, only you can bring me into the form world, and I'm this ethereal energy longing for your birth canal to bring me into, I mean, some bullshit like that, then everything you do, you're going to go, I'm doing it for you. I'm doing it for you. Look at all the sacrifices. And then you would refuse to look at your sinister agenda here, that you're doing this for you. They didn't ask you. They didn't even know who you were. They couldn't care less which uterus, which sperm, which egg.

it just it's science it's biology it happened it happened in a drunken moment it happened in a horny moment it's not some big you know oh my goodness i am the vessel of this creature and you owe me right then we go then we trip into you owe me something because look what i've given up no we are co-creators i wanted this i'm doing this to myself i brought you here you poor thing i'm so sorry it should be the reversal you know like i'm using you to fulfill my fantasy not the other way around, right? So it's this trap of this martyr mentality that I like to shatter. Like, no, you're not a martyr. You're not here doing some God's work. You aren't God or a vessel of God. You are here because of biology, wanting something, own it. You wanted this. This is

fulfilling you. And check your ego at every turn. Don't be under this illusion that you have been called to this sacred job, you know? And do you think it's dangerous to think that if you are? Do you think it's dangerous to parent in a way of thinking, I do everything for you? Oh my God, it's such a burden of guilt that you place on your child. And let me tell you, even though I know this, I love to lay the guilt on my child. You know, I still do it because that's the thing we parents do because it is so much bloody work and we don't want to go unnoticed for it. So already we're doing it.

So imagine if we really thought it was like, you know, God's work. Oh my goodness. it's such an ego trip. I know that you do have to go, but I would love to leave this conversation with a practical tool for parents. And I think like one of the most, I, you know, deep down, I think the thing that we all want to feel is connected to our kids and feel as though we really understand who they are. What would you say are the best tools or the best thing to do as a parent if you want to increase connection with your kids? Well, the first thing is to examine your expectations versus reality. Like really look at the difference and the delta between your

expectations for your child versus the reality of who your child is and really connect with, no, no, no, no. As much as I want my child to be an extrovert and really gregarious and the leader of every team, my child is an introvert and shy and really, really quiet right now. Get with the program, parent the child in front of you, not the child of your fantasy. And the third thing I would say is always connect first before you correct. So first check in with the child. How is my child feeling? What's underneath the behavior? Let me not fix the behavior. Let me try to understand what is the need beneath the behavior. And remember that my child is an evolving, fallible, limited human being, and dare I say, quite ordinary, and learn to accept them for who it is

they are and don't live out your ego through them it's okay if they're average it's not a dirty word I love and quite ordinary no one thinks their kids are ordinary everyone's like look at the photo of my child but truly I mean yeah I also think that it you know you create dynamics in families where you have the smart kid the achieving kid the kid who's so good at xyz and then the kid who feels like they're perpetually underwhelming trouble yeah Yeah, underwhelming. You know, you have a scapegoat of the family because they're maybe not as pliable or easy, but we see it happen so much in like sibling dynamics. Yes, you know, but the beauty of this consciousness work is that as the parent becomes whole within themselves, they're not looking for products and achievements and medals and trophies. The parent who is deeply connected to the present moment sees the awe and wonder of the simple present here and now.

And when the parent has developed this, this is what I teach, then they see the child for their ordinariness and sees the beauty of that and doesn't need the child to be a comedian, a performer, a superstar in order for them to feel that the child is unique. the parent is able to tap into that depth because the parent lives in that depthful place themselves see this is a whole different paradigm that I teach about entering the present moment in such a deep connected way that you're not looking for the bells and whistles you're looking for the essence and because you're connected to your essence as a parent the child's essence just blooms in front of you and you don't need the baubles and the trinkets to make your child special. The child is as they are. Dr. Shefali, thank you so much for coming and joining us today. I was waiting for my unborn child to pick my uterus to come into this world, but I will be

a bit more active in my attempt at the moment. But we're going to put Dr. Shefali's tour notes. She's coming to Melbourne and Sydney in March. We're going to put podcasts and social media and website, all of those links in our show notes for you guys to go and find out more. Thank you for giving us your time today. Absolutely. And I just want to say that I hope people come for the tour it's going to be an incredible live workshop where i should be having people come on stage talking about real life issues so you can have like a workshop style so i hope people check out the tour and also i have a coaching institute where i teach people to do what i do so people are interested in learning this as a skill as a career as a purpose

they can look up my uh my links and explore becoming one of my coaches dr shivali it's an absolute pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you.