Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - A High Ratio of Predators with Katie Couric

Episode Date: March 9, 2023

Chelsea is joined by none other than Katie Couric to discuss falling in love again after loss, Katie’s cancer diagnosis, and how to survive a dinner almost entirely attended by sexual predators. Then: An oldest sister is unsure what to say as her younger sister nears the end of her life.  And a wife finds out that her addict husband has been having an affair with a younger woman. Books in this episode: Going There by Katie Couric Many Lives, Many Masters Letting Go It’s Called a Breakup Because it’s Broken  * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. if your bookshelf and your for you page are equally important to your personality

welcome home pro society is a weekly podcast that's part book club part group chat for anyone who thinks pride and prejudice and love island deserve the same level of discourse each week we're connecting the dots between books the internet and pop culture with your favorite writers book talk creators and plenty of overthought opinions yeah i'm obsessed i'm Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Katherine. Oh, hi, Chelsea. Hi.

Guess where it snowed 20 inches last night? Oh, my gosh. Was it in Whistler? Mallorca. Oh, no. No. Are you serious? 20-foot waves.

They have, what are they called? Manholes? What are those called when the streets cave in? Is that called a manhole? I mean, the island is not prepared for snow. No. Maybe. In the mountains, 20 inches of snow.

And so they told everyone to stay in, don't go outside. It was on the Daily Mail. It popped up on my Instagram this morning. And not that I read the Daily Mail because I don't, but. We don't want to spread that. No, we don't. But Mallorca, I think, just comes to me, you know, since her phones are all eavesdropping on me.

Can you believe that? It is snowing. I'm in Whistler right now and it is snowing. Well, it snowed last week in Los Angeles in my backyard. So that's a whole other thing. The world is over. everyone. So we're just going to end this podcast right now because everyone should just take shelter. Goodbye. Hope you have enough Hamoni Berrico to get you through. Oh my God. That's

insane. I know. And I've heard LA is just the worst right now. Oh my God. It's been like pouring rain. My puppies have been like trying to potty train them. They're like, there's nowhere to go. It's flooded. So that's been interesting. I saw some kids surfing down the street in a Tupperware bucket the other day there was like the rivers going down the street and the gutters and then there was a kid pulling another kid on a mini bike and the other kid was in like a Tupperware tub and they were just like zooming down the street so that's that's the state of affairs right now listen if you can't have a little fun in a Tupperware tub where can you find it we went night skiing the other night after my birthday we all decided it was snowing

snowing it snowed like 20 centimeters whatever that means in America and we were like all together we went to apres and then everyone's like let's go up to the top of the parking lots and have someone drop us off and then we could just ski down at night because it was all fresh oh my god and so like 10 of us did it it was so much fun oh my god there is nothing better than being in the snow at night i don't know why i know it's so beautiful it's the best it is it's so beautiful and i also had a great birthday this year again i love celebrating my birthday in Whistler. It's got all my ingredients. Skiing, apres, skiing, margaritas, skiing, other margaritas. Oh, and I had my niece, Charlie, up here, who is a dreamboat. She's such a cutie.

She's ridiculous. She is just so cute and funny. And we skied. We had her charging by the end of the week. And she was here for like four days, but solo. And then my friend, Nick, who is my director on Chelsea Does. She was my DP. She came up and it was just so fun. I love having one-on-one time with my nieces and nephews. It's the best. I got shut down by a niece this week. Rejection from children is fierce. I know. Teenagers are trouble. Another reason not to have them, you know? Exactly. Exactly. It's like if they're tiny, they're pooping. If they're three, they're mean to you, right? Terrible twos, terrible threes. And then they turn into teenagers immediately after that but no one tells you they start smelling at like eight smelling yeah they start smelling bad

at like eight well the boys oh i don't know really girls start smelling really i think girls start getting sick oh oh you're like so early tricky situation i speaking of smelly i went three days without taking a shower and skiing while i was up here because we had such a full house and it was nonstop action and finally like yesterday or the day before everyone left and we went skiing again i was like okay and then i was like okay guys i'm going home after skiing today like no apres like i'm wrecked for my birthday i'm so tired my body's aching we had a huge powder day so my thighs were burning yeah and then of course you know they persuaded me to go to apres twist my arm cut to So one in the morning, I'm getting dropped off at my house, and we had adopted a giant

baby, my friend Kelly and I. Her friend, we decided he was our baby, and he had to come sleep in one of our extra guest rooms. And I was like, wait, what happened? It's like the whole day got away from me. That's how it goes. I know. It starts with one drink.

So yesterday, so I'm hibernating this week until my next batch of visitors come, which is Friday. And then we got you out of bed at seven in the morning or so. That's okay. You know I get up early anyway. I'm always up. Okay, so our guest today has a book out that you may have read. It's called Going There. Her daily newsletter is called Wake Up Call. I get that every morning. It's a mix of news, culture, and advice. She's the EP, which is an executive producer of the new documentary, No Ordinary Campaign, which is debuting at South by Southwest. And she is host of her podcast, which is called Next Question. Please welcome Katie Couric. Hi.

Katie, what are you doing on the floor? Oh, because we don't have a place to do this. So I'm just going to sit on the floor. And honestly, it'll be fine. It'll be comfortable. What are you two girls up to that you're both sleeping in the same room and have nowhere else to record? She's not sleeping in here. She's sleeping in the guest room.

But we're in this big kind of echoey house, and we thought this would be the best room. Is it? Is it okay? Yeah, well, of course. But the bed is right there. It looks so weird, Adriana. But I think it's a good look for you, Katie. It'll switch things up.

People will be surprised. And by the way, my dad would say it looked like I combed my hair with an egg beater. Hi. Hello. Hi, this is Catherine, my producer. I know Catherine. Hi, Catherine. Hi, Katie.

Oh, yes. You guys know each other because she's going to be working with you now. She's going to be helping us, which is so nice. She's so great. Am I yelling? Oh, sorry. I'm yelling. I'm yelling.

That's nice that you have someone who will tell you that. Oh my God, Katie, where do we start? Let's figure this out. How did we first meet? Was it an interview? I think it might've been an interview. I'm trying to remember when I took you to the White House Correspondents Dinner. That was our first date. It was. And I think I just reached out to you because I thought you were fun and funny and that you would get a kick out of going to the White House Correspondents Dinner. Which we did. We got a big kick out of it. That was a fun night. Remember we ended up in a car with two real randoms? I don't even remember. I remember who. Do you remember who they were? I don't remember. The whole thing is a little bit of a blur to me, but I remember it was cute, Chelsea, because you were very nervous. Do you remember that?

No, no, no, no. Tell me. You were kind of, I think you felt out of your element and you had never been to something like that. And you were just a little, a little jittery. And it was really sweet. And who else came that year? Was that the year Betty White came? And she was also my guest. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We all sat at the same table. Yeah. So I felt like I had the coolest table in the room. That's a cool event, actually, the White House Correspondents Dinner. It's really, really like a fun, fun night because it's not a lot of Republicans go, if any. And so that's always a win. Well, that was sort of back in the day. It was pretty bipartisan, honestly. And I think when Trump became president, I think they stopped having them. Then there was the pandemic. And so it used to be a really kind of jocular, bipartisan affair. And it was really fun because the president gets up and makes a really funny speech. And it was a lot of fun. And then I think we went to the party. Did we go to the party at the French embassy that Bloomberg usually hosted or used to host?

Yes, yes, yes. That's where we went. I remember us being in a car with someone really, really famous, like a famous director or somebody. I can't even remember. Oh, yeah. I can't remember either. Who was that? And then I looked to my left and it was another random and I just thought this is one of those nights.

But we've had a couple of those nights because we had our Woody Allen night, which we've both talked about, where we accidentally had dinner with Woody Allen and Sunyi and some other unmentionables. Should we retell that story? Or do you feel like everybody's heard it? I know you put it in your comedy routine. I think everybody has heard it, but I mean, there's no... Well, you know what? You tell it because I haven't heard you tell it, except in the book, of course. Yeah. Yeah. So basically, I was working at CBS News. It was, I believe, was it January or February or something like that in the winter, Chelsea, you and I had made plans to have dinner, which I was really looking forward to. I got an email from Peggy Siegel, who was this sort of

big publicist who's kind of fallen from grace now. And she said, would you like to have dinner at the largest single family home in Manhattan? And I was like, well, that sounds intriguing. You know, it'd be interesting to see some big, beautiful home where people usually live in pretty small apartments in New York City. So I said, okay, great. And she said, it's going to be honoring Prince Andrew. George Stephanopoulos is going to be there. And she mentioned some other news people. And I thought, oh boy, well, the Royal wedding was coming up that spring and William and Kate were getting married. And I thought, you know, any end to a member of the royal family is a good end. Well, that turns out not necessarily. Whoopsie doodle. That's what

she said. But anyway, so I thought, gosh, I should probably go to this. And I called you and I said, Chelsea, I've just been invited to this dinner. Do you want to go? It sounds like it might be interesting. It's for Prince Andrew. I don't know if I even mentioned that when I called you. I think I must have. And I said, do you want to go? And you were like, sure, why not? So I was dating someone at the time. So he came too. It turns out, and I Googled him as I almost got there. I think I met you there, but I remember Googling Jeffrey Epstein and thinking, oh, well, he was convicted of something in Florida. It sounded sleazy, but it didn't sound horrible and criminal and disgusting as now we know his behavior was. So I thought, oh, this is pretty sketchy, but

I guess I'm in now. And so we walked in and there was this whole assortment of people, including George Stephanopoulos. I believe Charlie Rose was there. And yes, Woody Allen and Sunni. And it was probably about, what would you say, Chelsea, like 24 people? Oh, I remember it being so much smaller, but you know, my memory is not great because I didn't even remember that you brought a date. So really? Yeah. Was it John? No, it was Brooks, the young guy I was dating at the time. Oh, okay, okay. So, no, I thought it was a small party, like eight or ten people.

No, no, no. Well, I think actually it was probably somewhere between ten and twenty-four. I think I only remember the key players is why I'm remembering it. I remember Charlie Rose walking out just shit-faced, leaving his coat, and then coming back an hour later because you and I were leaving, and apparently Brooks, we were leaving. And then he came back and he was kind of like walking down the street, very disoriented. And he was like, I'm looking for my coat. I'm like, oh, I had no idea so many people were such a hot mess, you know? I was like, oh, Charlie Rose acts like this?

At that time, he was a respectable newsman too. So I don't remember that much from the night, but I remember kind of sitting and I almost think like a horseshoe shaped table situation, maybe in the living room. And I titled that chapter of my book, Lasagna Was Served. because they serve lasagna in these sort of shallow bowls. And then before that, he'd kind of given us a tour of the house. And I remember he had those Stubbs & Wooten velvet slippers on and torn jeans and like a velvet, maybe a velvet blazer.

And he was holding a drink. And I really didn't know very much about him. I remember the artwork being weird. But after dinner, that's when you went up to Woody Allen. I was at the end of dinner, because I remember the living area. we were all seated because I kept seeing all these people walk in. You know, when I saw Woody Allen and Sun Yi walk in, I remember going, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what is this? And then I didn't obviously know Jeffrey either, Epstein. I knew Prince Andrew. I know who Peggy Siegel is. Yeah.

And George Stephanopoulos. I don't remember him being there at all, George Stephanopoulos. Really? No. Charlie Rose is the other person I remember. And then I feel like there was one other, but I know when you just said that, I was like, oh, he was there? Yeah. Well, that's great to know. Good information. What a high ratio of predators. I know. When I look back, I'm like, oh my God, almost every person in that room was canceled.

Yeah. It felt like the den of iniquity or something. But after dinner, Chelsea, everyone was sort of sitting around. And I remember seeing a friend of mine who's a doctor who knew Jeffrey Epstein, talking to him, and a female doctor, really beautiful woman. And And then Chelsea walks up to Woody Allen and Suni, and I don't think I heard you say it. You just told me later and said, hi, you know, I'm Chelsea Handler. And you started chit-chatting, and you said, how did you two meet? Now, you knew how they met, right? You were just –

Well, of course. I was giving it to him. But it was at dinner when we were getting dessert. We were seated at the table because I was seated right across from them, and I was next to you. You were on my right, and they were across from me. And the whole time at dinner, all I was waiting was to say something to him, because as a woman, I was like, there's no way that I'm not going to say something to him to make him know that he's out completely out of line. But you did hear me because you said, OK, Chelsea, time to go. Katie mentioned that this happened I was like wait that was real she really said that it wasn't just a bit I just figured it was like a bit oh no it was a bit that part I remember perfectly because

I because I had to contain myself for so long throughout the dinner to not embarrass everybody you know what I mean as a guest I was like how do I play this and I remember because I was talking to Woody Allen during the dinner trying to be friendly and and we were talking about stand-up and movies and all of the, and I was like, oh, and then I was like, don't, don't do this. Don't get sucked in and think that you like somebody. You don't like this person. You don't like them. I had to have this internal dialogue with myself the whole time. Yeah. And I was definitely tipsy because I'm me. One weird thing I remember is when we left, Brooks looked at me and said, did you notice how young the girls were who were taking our coats? Oh God. So he noticed.

well he did and he mentioned it to me so now in hindsight that's a very perceptive and really upsetting comment yeah yeah and we've been through we've hung out a lot of times because we had boyfriends that both had places right we were both spending time in shelter island for a while you were about to get married and i've met your daughters who you know are fabulous and so yeah we've known each other for many, many years. Yeah. And of course I, I follow you from afar and love watching you not only with your Santa, but I'm obsessed with your Instagram. So I enjoyed watching you skiing in your bikini recently. You're a good skier, Chelsea. Oh, thanks. I've been, you know what, Katie, I've been working so hard at becoming a good skier. It was like my

dream as a little kid. I was like, I just want to be a great skier. Well, you have very good form in every way. But I you know, when did you start because I started skiing at 45. I'm 66 now and I can ski okay, like I can do a semi easy blue, but I have never felt that freedom, that total relaxation that good skiers feel. Yeah, it's just time spent, right? I bought a place in Whistler and I just spent months here at a time and just skiing over and over with an instructor, you know, a former racer who's giving me technique. So I'm not just running around the mountain like a lunatic. And that's helped a lot too. I think part of the problem, Chelsea, is I only ski once a year. Yeah. It's hard to improve when you don't put the effort in or you

don't have the time. I have to tell you, my instructor is my father-in-law, Herb. And Herb is 91. And he, oh, don't tell anyone. He's still a ski instructor in Aspen. Oh my God. Really? How cute is that? He is, well, he is the most amazing person. I mean, he is in incredible shape. Not only does he carry his skis, he carries mine. He is obviously an excellent skier. He's been doing this for like 40 years. He was in business and he cashed out and his boys, one of whom is my husband, thought, oh, he's going to do this for a little while. But no, 45 or 50 years later, he's still doing it. And he's just amazing. And he's so much fun to be with. And he has helped me become a

mediocre skier. Yeah. Yeah. And I like mountain culture, you know, like I like the idea of going for a run, having a nice leisurely lunch, then going for more skiing and then app right like I just I'm home every night by 730 or eight o'clock. And you're exhausted, right? Exhausted. And then I get a massage or I read at night. I mean, I'm just so happy in my little winter cabin life that I've created for myself. That's awesome. Are you there by yourself? Do you bring friends? People come through. I bet your sister comes, right? Yeah. My niece was just here for my birthday. My friends were here. They just all left. So then I have a couple of down days and then I have a new group coming in this weekend. Fun. So yeah, people come through all the time.

It's really fun. Oh, that's great. Where have you been spending your vacation time? Do you guys go to the Hamptons mostly in that area? Right now we're in a rental property in Los Angeles. So for the past five or six years, during the dog days of winter in New York, we've usually come out here for six weeks to two months because now when you can work remotely and now that we have our own company and everything, I don't have to be in a studio. So that's been a really nice change of pace, but it is the weather Chelsea here. I know, I know. I can't believe you just said you were in LA. I would have thought you were going to say you were in the Hamptons or something. It is so bad in LA right now. It's the worst time. I have a very good piece of good

news to report because it's sunny right now. And I can't believe it. Adriana, who works with me, who's here for a couple of days, said she feels like she's taking a party drug. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at fellerdirect.com. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, shut up, don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita,

we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita,

trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel

veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about John and talk about your marriage a little bit because you guys have a very great thing going. And he's a great support ballast for your life as well as you to his. We're going to talk about your cancer advocacy work also, because you lost your first husband to cancer, you lost your sister. And this is a very important kind of lifelong project for you. Just so I feel part of the whole mission, I got cancer too. Exactly. So tell us what the update on that is.

The cancer or John? Well, let's talk about the cancer first. Okay. All right. I kind of ruined the flow, didn't I? Let's talk about your health first. My health is good. And by the way, Katie, let me just interrupt. I had no idea you were 66 years old. You are so cute. You have never not, and I know that you talk about in your book how annoying it is to be cute, but I have to say, you have one of those faces that you will never look old.

I don't know about that, Chelsea. No, you don't. You just look, you always look young. It doesn't matter what your age is. I do have kind of a young vibe, kind of a lively young vibe. So thank you. You're nice to say that. But in terms of my health, I'm fine, knock wood, only because when I was diagnosed with this, Chelsea, I wasn't that surprised because cancer has been such a fixture in my life. But I felt so lucky because both Jay and Emily were diagnosed with stage four cancer. And it's all about when you're diagnosed. That's why I've been on my sort of relentless advocacy about screening, because if you detect cancer early, that's when it's most treatable, right? When it hasn't metastasized, when it hasn't spread through your body and landed on another

organ. in. So I didn't realize I hadn't gone for my annual mammogram, went and got a mammogram, didn't expect anything weird. But my breast radiologist, who's I think one of the best in the world, Susan Drossman said, you know how the technician calls the doctor in and they're looking at the scan. And I have always gotten an ultrasound because I have very dense breasts, which can only be indicated on a mammogram. And 45% of women, 40 and over have what are considered dense breasts. And dense breasts mean that the breast density, the tissue, shows up white in the mammogram. So it makes it very hard for the radiologist to identify a tumor or an

abnormality. As Susan says, it's like looking for a snowball against a backdrop of snow. So I've always gotten breast ultrasounds, and we were videotaping it to do a little tape piece on the importance of getting screened. And Adriana, who's here with me now, who's sort of, we're like frickin' frack. She, Susan said, you need to stop filming. You know, she was filming on her iPhone and we were just going to put together a little piece. And I said, no, it's okay. She can keep filming. And she's like, no, tell her to stop. And so she said, I see something very suspicious. I'm going to do a biopsy this afternoon. Can you stick around? Long story short, it was after getting a lumpectomy, a stage 1A hormone receptor positive breast tumor. So I got radiation for 15

days, a lumpectomy prior to the radiation. And then you take something called an aromatase inhibitor for five years, which suppresses the estrogen. The biggest bummer about this, so my cancer, as my surgeon said, is the good one. It's not only treatable, it's curable. The only bummer about it is I desperately miss my estrogen. Well, that's my next question. Yes. How does that affect someone of your age? Because we need HRT at a certain age, right? Well, I had been on hormone replacement therapy, although my doctor says she does not think that contributed to my breast cancer, but I was on the patch for probably 10 years. So I had to take the patch off immediately. And now I take these pills that further suppress estrogen. And what can I

say it sucks. Estrogen is a wonder hormone. It helps with brain fog. It helps with skin dryness, dryness everywhere, if you know what I'm saying. And so it's not fun, but it's a small price to pay considering what other people go through. What have been the worst kind of, or the biggest side effects that you've had? I think, you know, I have very dry skin and I had, when I was a little girl, I had eczema on my arms. And so I was starting to get really dry skin even when I was on the patch. So I think it's just made it worse. And so that's really the most significant. I know it sounds stupid, but it's bothersome. Does it help if you're just constantly lathering up your face with serum and moisturizer? It does, but I just don't do that. I'm kind of

lazy and I'm disciplined and I'll do it after I get out of the shower. It's just not something I do. I should do it every night before I go to bed and all that, but I'm usually too tired and too lazy. But I haven't noticed a problem with brain fog. Sometimes, like a lot of people my age and anyone my age listening will know that I kind of have to think of words or I don't quite have the recall I used to have. I saw somebody at Craig's the other night who's a very big guy in the TV industry. And I was like, oh, I can't remember his name. And then I saw LeVar Burton, which was very exciting. But so I really haven't noticed much of a change. And it's hard because as you get older, it's hard to parse out what's causing what. And I'm stiff and my joints are kind of

stiff. I do a lot of Pilates, but is that because of the estrogen that I'm not taking, or is it just sort of a natural part of aging. So one of the things I really wanted to come out of my breast cancer diagnosis is I want women to A, find out if they have dense breasts, to B, their own advocates, find out if they have dense breasts and then ask if they can do additional screening because a lot of breast cancers are missed in women with dense breasts because mammograms aren't sufficient. So I went down to Capitol Hill and did a press conference with a congresswoman from Connecticut named Rosa DeLauro. She introduced legislation. John makes fun of me, goes, who do you think you are, Nancy Pelosi? But she introduced legislation that will require

insurance companies to cover breast ultrasounds in women with dense breasts, because right now, many of them don't. And of course, many women can't afford it. So I just want women to really be smart about their testing and make sure that they get all the screening they need. thank you for this public service announcement. I'm kidding. No, thank you for this public service announcement. Let's talk about your relationship and meeting someone later in life in the way that you did and how that's impacted your family dynamic with your girls and with you and how this is different, you know, obviously than your prior relationship, every relationship's different. So some of the highs and like inspirational things

that you can share with us for people who are listening. Well, it's been a joy and I really, I'm so happy that I met John and that we found each other. You know, he's just good company. He's fun to be with. Of course, occasionally we get on each other's nerves. He bugs me, I bug him, but he's really, he's just a solid person. He is a happy person. He loves adventure, although he's kind of boring with his restaurant choices. We go kind of a square mile around our apartment. I'm like, Molnar, can we like mix it up a little bit? But he's got a great family. They have been an additional gift. He's one of three boys. And, you know, I love his parents. Both my parents have died and Jay's parents died a number of

years ago. So Herbie and Paula treat Ellie and Carrie like their granddaughters. I mean, they really think of them as their granddaughters. You know, it was hard because Ellie, Carrie and I were like the three musketeers for so long. And when we got engaged, they came out to the Hamptons and I took them into a room and I showed them my engagement ring and they both burst into tears and they weren't really happy tears. I think they were just shocked and worried that this was going to change things. But of course it hasn't. He's just enriched our lives and he's got two wonderful kids as well. And we're too old to be the Brady bunch. You know, my kids are grown, his kids are grown, but they all have a really nice relationship. And I just feel extraordinarily lucky.

And what I tell everyone, since I know this is an advice show is, you know, you have to be intentional. If you want a partner, and I'm kind of a partner person, you have to tell people, you have to ask people. So when I asked my friend, Molly Helfit at spinning class, if her husband, who was the chief of trauma surgery at the hospital for special surgery, I said, Molly, does Dave know any doctors? I'm so interested in medicine and science. I've learned so much about cancer. I think I'd enjoy dating a doctor. And she said, we don't have, I don't think we know any doctors, but we, we do know this banker named John Molnar. And I was like, does he have a pulse? Has he been to, has he ever been to a doctor? And so he finally called me and he was

funny, you know, right away, he just had an easiness and a fun personality. And I just liked him immediately felt comfortable. He was from Chicago. I like Midwesterners, Chelsea, they're just a little different. Yeah, in a good way. They're just less pretentious. I know that's such a generalization about millions of people. But anyway, so it's all worked out. And I'm really happy. And as I said, I feel very, very, very lucky. And also, I think what you said as a salient point is having your girl's reaction, thinking there's going to be some sort of subtraction. And instead there's an enhancement, an addition. Everything he's bringing to the table is actually wonderful. His parents, you know, his kids, all of those things and those elements.

His intelligence, you know, he's the CEO of our company. He's got, he's a great businessman. You know, working with your partner spouse is not always easy and we're both pretty strong-willed, but his skills in building this company, Chelsea, we have like 40 plus employees. We're working with purpose-driven brands. I have a podcast. We have a newsletter. We have a million subscribers. Newsletter, which is great, you guys. I read it every single morning. Oh, thank you, Chelsea. Wake Up Call, it's called. So if you haven't signed up for that, please do. It's a great way to get your news in the morning and it's got a mix of everything. So it's not like just,

you're just reading about politics. It's got like pop culture. And health and wellness. and yes, and human interest stories, all of those things. So yeah, you go to katiekirk.com to sign up shameless plug. But anyway, that's that's john. Yeah, well, thank you for making sure we spoke about him. Okay, so we have a couple of letters that people have written in. And then we I think we have one live call. Catherine, tell us what we're in store for. Well, we I mean, it's all on the themes that we've touched on today. It's relationships and starting over. It's breast cancer. So Katie, I know you have talked about it all. So I thought these questions would be

perfect for you. Okay, great. Great. But we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back with Katie and Chelsea. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at BelAirDirect.com. when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable.

I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. There's stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island

to deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed, so obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite BookTok creators to the latest pop culture moments,

nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle, I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. Well, today I thought we might start with our caller. She's a teacher, so we've got to get her back to her students. But she says, Dear Chelsea, I got together with my husband 10 years ago after two years of close friendship. In that time, my husband battled a heroin addiction. For the first five years of our relationship, he was in and out of rehab and recovery.

Although it wasn't easy, I do think him being in recovery made me a better person. I learned to focus on myself. I learned how to set better boundaries in all my relationships. and through it all, our relationship still remained a very good one. We've always communicated well, loved each other sincerely, and had a relationship based on true friendship. In July 2021, we decided to finally get married. Our wedding day was the happiest day of my life.

And since our wedding day, we've been having a true honeymoon period. The amount of love we have for each other is honestly overwhelming. Things were finally looking up. After years of dealing with the drama of relapse and recovery, He had found stability and sobriety, a good job, and he had goals. We bought a house together last September, and things were going better than I had ever imagined. Then in December, I found out he was sleeping with his coworker. This is something I never saw coming and could not have prepared myself for.

We went from mentioning daily how grateful we were for each other to him moving out and pursuing a relationship with another, much younger, by the way, woman. To say I'm devastated is an understatement. This feels to me a lot like a relapse. It happened suddenly after he stopped taking care of himself, going to meetings, and communicating with his sponsor and friends in recovery. I married him fully knowing that there was a possibility he could relapse, but I never knew how this could happen. Since he moved out just before Christmas, he has moved into an apartment, continued dating his coworker, and basically ignored my existence. He's given me no indication that he's interested in working on himself or our relationship, but I'm having such a hard time letting him go.

Do I wait for him to figure his shit out? Do I move on? How do I let go? Elizabeth. Oh, God. That is so sad. So brutal. Hi, Elizabeth.

You're here. Oh, hi, Elizabeth. I'm so sorry, Elizabeth, this happened. And I can imagine how devastating this is. And it sounds like you were so important to his journey. And then to have this happen is awful. By the way, you look so young. How could this woman be much younger?

What is she, 11? She's 26. And how old are you? 32. I want to echo what Katie said. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Heartbreak is the, it feels like it's the worst thing and that it is the most unrecoverable

thing, but it is not. And you will recover. And I said this the other day to my friend because we were talking, and I know it's like sometimes when we can't get ourselves out of situations by ourselves, the universe has a way of getting us out of those situations. And even though it doesn't feel like he's doing you a favor and he has several issues with drugs, with the cheating, with all of these things, this is a way for you to have him out of your life and really reassess, I think, what drew you to him in the first

place, what allowed you to trust him in the first place and have so much faith in him and kind of recalibrate what you're willing to accept in the future moving forward, whether it's him coming back in six months, which is a possibility. And you have to decide what you're going to do with that if and when that happens. And if it doesn't happen, what are you going to do to prepare yourself to be in a real loving relationship that is reciprocal, where you don't have to worry about somebody going off the rails because it was intense, intense, intense, intense, and then disappear. Like that's not what any responsible human does. You sit down and you have a conversation saying I'm having these feelings for another person or I've acted on these feelings and I'm

confused. You don't just take off and ignore this person that's been by your side. I agree. I mean, it sounds so cruel that he, you know, people do fall in love with other people. It happens. But the fact that he has been so cruel and callous and completely cut you out of his life. But one One thing I wanted to say that Chelsea mentioned is it's so interesting who we're drawn to. You know, were you drawn to him because you wanted to save him, that you wanted to fix him, that you wanted to help him? Is there something in your past, in your relationships with your family or with your parents that maybe make you gravitate to people like this who are sort of dangerous and living

on the edge? even if he was getting better. I thought it was interesting, too, that you described this as a relapse, like maybe one addiction replacing another, the high of almost an illicit romance replacing the high of drugs. And I don't know much about that. But I thought that was an interesting use of words. Did you, Chelsea? Yeah, absolutely. It does sound like a transference, right? Like you go from one thing to the other. Do you know if he's had a relapse? I don't think he's used drugs or alcohol. A lot of the like warning signs of a relapse were coming up before I found out, which is how I found out. I started getting a little bit suspicious. I thought that he relapsed

on drugs and then I found out that it was an affair. And like I've spoken to his sponsor, his sponsor agrees it's very much like relapse behavior. But he's in such denial, like he does not want to hear it. And he gets super defensive anytime anybody accuses him of needing mental health help right now. And when was the last time you spoke with him? Well, I spoke with him on Sunday because he wants to talk about taxes. But he did tell me on Sunday that he's no longer with that girl, but that he still doesn't want to be married to me anymore. and you have this house together yeah and so what's the plan there have you gotten that far yet I know I'm not moving I'm not selling the house I put a significant portion of my savings

into the house like the down deposit and it wouldn't make any sense for me to move because rent anywhere I have two dogs and rent anywhere with two dogs would be more expensive than what my mortgage is. But he's under the impression that we'll just sign papers and he'll get off scot-free and just live a life that has no repercussions for his actions. I mean, I feel like his behavior alone is going to help you get through this quicker, as painful as it feels. He's like disassociating himself from your prior relationship. And I do think you are dodging a major bullet of like more pain and more grief. I don't think that you should be holding on to the idea that maybe you guys can reconcile because, A, he needs a ton of therapy. And you don't have time for that. Like, I would rather see you take this time to really get centered and grounded and read all the books that you can read about what that means for you.

There's a great book I mention all the time on this podcast, Letting Go by David Hawkins, which is very deep and very meta, but it is about letting the world stop resisting your reality. Whatever is happening, just deal with what's happening and the situation without trying to push, move, or change it. aligning yourself and it makes recovery and heartbreak so much easier because there are doors that are going to open because of this closure that you haven't seen yet. And life is going to take a different shape for you. And you have to be inspired by that and move towards that. If you can understand what I'm saying there. Yeah. That's what I'm having a hard time with is just letting go, honestly, especially because it's a relapse because I married him knowing that he could relapse, but I did not know that an affair could be a relapse. I thought it would be drugs or alcohol. In some ways, are you excusing his behavior and saying, well, this is

the personality of an addict? Yeah. And I married him knowing he was an addict. And so what is my responsibility? But then again, I meant my vows when I said them and he's broken them. And I don't know even if he came back where we would land. And you deserve so much better, right? I think a lot of women hold on thinking they're going to fix somebody and that's almost part of the attraction. And I think if he doesn't let you, not to go all Oprah on you, be your best self and let you pursue your dreams and be a full and whole person. And if it's all about him and his addiction and his you know wanting to stay clean and and you're so focused on that what's left over for you yeah I agreed not much and just the treatment you know what I mean this isn't how

you treat someone you've spent all this time with who's been there for you all this time and that alone is just like you're not that's not acceptable to you you deserve so much better and you deserve to be standing on higher ground and by continuing to have this conversation with yourself about what you want moving forward. I understand it's hard to get over someone, but time will heal. You will get over him. You will get over him before you think you will. It always happens. You know, we don't stay in love with the same people for 20 or 40 years. And sometimes even if people do, there's people along the way that come in and, you know, shake things up. And I think this is a time for you to dive inward and really do the work on

yourself so that you're never in a position where you are vulnerable to a person or an addict like this again, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I think Katie is right that, you know, he's chasing chaos, whether it's the heroin or another person or busting up his marriage in this way, whatever it is. And so are you in therapy right now? I am. Okay, good. I mean, you know, we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, but when you are ready for a new relationship, because it's probably not going to be right away. But when you are going after relationships that feel steadier and feel really not these extreme highs and lows, the nice thing about that too is there's less for you to take care of. You don't necessarily need somebody who can take care of you in that way, but you need

someone who you can take care of each other. It's not just one-sided of like, I got to help him be in recovery. I got to help him get out of this. I got to help him figure out his life now that he's left me. I wonder why so many women, you all, are attracted to chaos, chaotic relationships, sort of the push-pull, the where do I stand. I was watching, before I went to bed, sometimes I watch old episodes of Sex and the City, and Carrie is dating Aiden right now in this episode I was watching. And she said, it's so nice. It's so easy. It's so calm. And she was so unhappy about that. And it's interesting when you look at your own self, like why do I, what is it about my past or about relationships or about my makeup that makes me want to be in this chaos? Because

ultimately it's just so not fun. But I think when you see that, you can move towards something that's different than that, especially with the help of a therapist. I think after five years of sobriety, like we were getting to that point. And that's one of the things he said, like I was just waking up, going to the gym, going to work, coming home, sitting on the couch, watching TV. And I was like, that's life. Like that's where I wanted to be. I want a boring life with somebody. I want somebody that I can just sit on the couch next to and not necessarily even have to have a conversation. So for me, like we were finally at the point where I was like, great, we own a house. This is our nice little like boring life together and it was comfortable and this really just like

smacked me in the face out of nowhere i feel like i'm still reeling from the shock it's interesting what what some people consider contentment other people consider boredom right i would be with you because those are the things i'm interested in as well sitting on the couch watching tv at the end of the day and not fucking talking to anybody. That is also my idea of a perfect relationship. Too much talking drives me crazy. It's like I make a living talking, so I like quiet as much as I like talking. Do you relate to that, Katie? Do you like sometimes everyone just to stop? Yeah, I love quiet too. I feel like you that it's contentment to be able to... I used to be so sad when I saw people out to dinner and not talking. And that still makes

me sad when I see couples. But there's something when you're comfortable enough to not have to talk all the time. When you just find comfort in each other's presence and it doesn't feel forced or awkward, that to me is my sweet spot. That's where I want to be in a relationship. and that's what I found and it is possible to find it and you know I think you deserve a drama free relationship that's what you want and that's what you should go out and find and I was saying earlier to Chelsea and Catherine you know when I look for a partner I'm pretty intentional about it I don't think I'm going to run into somebody at a bookstore you know perusing the new novels I think that you have to network, you have to say to people, I'm interested in meeting new people. And it may not even be for love connections. It may be just for expanding your social circle, learning something new from somebody who's in a completely different profession or has an interesting hobby.

and you know I always say only coffee or a glass of wine because I don't want to be stuck having dinner with somebody who I just don't feel a connection with at all but I also try to give them you know I try to respect them and appreciate them for who they are even if they're not somebody I want to be you know dating there's also a book called it's called breakup because it's broken which is a good breakup book write that one down and then the letting go book because I think what you're really talking about is letting go. And I think that this is an opportunity. Don't ever forget every disaster, every traumatic experience we have is an opportunity for growth. So you're going to take this opportunity and you are going to grow. You know what I mean? You have to think

about that every single day and use the intention that Katie's referring to as a daily practice for yourself. What are my intentions for today? To learn more about myself, to be more honest with myself to be looking for the good in people and the people that are giving the good back to you and really just, you know, taking the time to get yourself a little bit out of your comfort zone and the things that you're reading and learning about yourself, even with your therapy, really get down to it. And I think that you're going to be in a much better spot sooner than later. And don't lose hope.

Just remember that you are a person of strength. We all have such a deep reservoir of strength within us. Sometimes we have to really pull it out. And this is one of those times where you have to stand on your two feet and don't waver. His behavior has been unacceptable and there's no way back to him. Yeah. And think of all you have to offer. I think when people get treated this way, they look for deficits in themselves because

it's sort of what's wrong with me? What did I do wrong? Why wasn't I good enough? And it doesn't have anything to do with that. It's not that you have deficits. And I think at a time like this, you have to remember all the great things about you. And as Chelsea said, and I think Chelsea would be an excellent therapist, by the way, but that, you know, to really think about all that you have to offer, not the things that

you are suddenly feeling that you don't have. When you break up and you start to obsess about the other person, what are they doing? What are they thinking? What's their motive? What were they saying? What did they mean when they did this? that is the thinking that it's like, no, no, what do I think? What am I doing? What do I think about him? What do I think about myself? How did he make me feel? Yeah. It's about you redirect any

thoughts you have about him back to you because that's who you need to be paying attention to. It doesn't matter what he thinks or what he's doing. You're going to stand your ground and you're going to develop as a human being because of this experience. Yeah. You get to be a little bit selfish now and you should be. That's nice. Yeah. So stay busy. I know that even when I lost my husband, Jay, and even when I've had dramatic breakups or after long relationships, I think you really have to lean on your female friends and your male friends and really stay busy. Take a trip, go for a hike, take a pottery class. I mean, just work on yourself. But I think those times where you wake up at three in the morning and you're ruminating and you can't go back to sleep.

I think just staying busy for me was so important during traumatic periods of my life. It's like I'm trying to strike a balance between staying busy and taking time to feel my feelings because I think sometimes staying busy makes me avoid my reality a little bit. I feel like I'm performing all the time for other people. Well, maybe you stay busy by yourself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, no, it's good to reflect. I think that's really important. I didn't learn that until I was much older about sitting by yourself and like allowing the pain to come through, allowing yourself to grieve. You know what I mean? Not necessarily relying on other people to make you feel better as a distraction, but kind of working through the pain yourself, allotting that time each day. another good book for you to read is attached because it can probably it will probably be very clear to you what kind of person he is which sounds avoidant and and it kind of gives you the dynamics between like people who are needy or what people are expecting out of relationships and

the attraction that why you're even in a relationship with someone like this you know not that there's anything wrong with you it's just our patterns of behavior and our patterns of giving love so yes please just remember that you're of huge value separating is not the end of your world. It's the beginning of a different part of your life. I'm going to play this on repeat. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm going to get these books too. They sound so interesting. Yeah. They're all just, you know, like it just depends what kind of hits you. You know, I've read so many like breakup or self-help books. They kind of go hand in hand and some

of them are deeper. Some of them are lighter. There's like the untethered soul, which is kind of a light, frilly read. And that's okay, but that's not the book for me. I like deep thinking about how life gets easier when you accept everything and you just go, oh, that didn't work out. Okay, what else is going to happen? Not belaboring, you know, oh, what happened? When you beat a dead horse like that, you're stuck. So you're just going to have to get yourself unstuck, which you're going to do, and then you're going to report back to us. okay thank you so much okay okay we love you thanks elizabeth good luck bye i love you so much thank you you're welcome you're gonna be okay i will she's so sweet too just to brag on

her for a second she said you know because i was like oh man december like it's right before the holidays that this all blew up and she goes oh yeah and he had invited his whole family to come for christmas and i go oh my gosh did you guys cancel she goes no i just told them he left i don't know where he's gonna be but you guys are still welcome to come and so they came and stayed with her oh that's sweet i like that i know what a sweetheart oh god she's so nice i wouldn't i would be like, nope. Me too. There's a Ramada Inn down the street. You and your family can go fuck off. That's more my style. Yeah. We took up too much time, Katie, catching up. That's okay. We loved hearing about John. So it's good. We love it. And Jeffrey Epstein, we probably could have

cut that. Well, you know what? We can clarify for now once and for all, because also the other thing is I keep getting these people saying I was on his flight log to Epstein Island. And I'm like, I mean, that's why this dinner. Have I ever pretended that I didn't do something that I've done? Like I am the first person to announce it to the world. So I would like to clarify that neither Katie

or myself has ever been on a flight with Jeffrey Epstein. Just a dinner. Yeah, that was my- Meaning that I was on his manifesto, like she was on Jeffrey Epstein. I'm like, what are they talking about? First of all, it's manifest. It's not manifesto. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Wait, sorry. Manifest. Sorry.

Oh, we'll have to edit that out. We can't have you me correcting you. Wait a second. Let me start over. I keep reading and people tweet to me, you were on Jeffrey Epstein's manifest. And I'm like, what? I imagine you and I going to that Island. And then what, what do we, what are we up to there? Right. Anyway, but that's good. So yes, my dinner with Jeffrey, our dinner with Jeffrey is has been discussed once and for all okay great well let's take a quick break and we'll be right back to wrap up the Jonas Brothers are running it back

we live the burning up tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brother hits that have defined a generation one incredible celebration one unforgettable night see the Jonas Brothers live at rbc amphitheater september 28th get tickets now at ticketmaster.ca jonas brothers the burning up tour all over again when i was 14 years old i was kidnapped and held captive for nine months i survived and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files you just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt

me i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and i just started screaming they are abducted stalked controlled and nearly silenced but these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to the Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse.

I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place.

Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people, and they were like, you smiled at us.

Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back with Katie Couric and Catherine, and we're wrapping up today's episode. Well, Katie, is there any advice you'd like from Chelsea? Yeah, Katie.

Yes. Oh, gosh. I'm springing it on you. Oh, gosh. Yes. I know I was supposed to think about that, Catherine. I think I forgot to think about it. Okay.

That's no problem. What about if we just do one more question and then close it up? Yeah. I think that's good. Sure. This is a bit of a heavy one, but it is right up your alleys. So I definitely wanted to get to this one. This is from Marty.

Marty says, Dear Chelsea, I'm the eldest of six sisters and one brother. I'm also a wife and mother to three girls. We're close-knit, though a little crazy. My second-to-youngest sister, who's seven years younger than I, has breast cancer, diagnosed back in 2018. In 2020, the cancer metastasized to her brain, which was a heartbreak. She was given three months to live, and there are not a lot of treatment options. My sister has miraculously lived a quality life for the last two years due to her hard work, support group, and medical advances. However, we're now at a point where her chemotherapy is no longer working.

She's on her way to take part in a phase one medical trial, hoping to help others in the future and perhaps also extend her life. My sisters and I have been her cheerleaders throughout this process and have been her confidant and support. She's an amazing person and sister. I sure hope that her life is extended through the trial, but I'm trying to prepare for the alternative. I want to be there for her, say all the right things, and provide comfort, strength, and peace. But I don't know how to do this. I don't know what to say. I'm afraid I will say the wrong thing.

I want to save her. I don't want this to happen. I'm heartbroken, and I need to help myself so I can help her. Can you help give me answers? Thank you, and I hope this note finds its way to you. Marty. You have really smart, sensitive, eloquent listeners. So that was a beautiful letter. And that is a very, very, I think that is one of the most profound and difficult situations. You know, we as a culture just don't know how to help people die. You know, I think I wrote a lot about this in my book because I was in a state of denial and was the cheerleader for Jay, despite the fact that I knew that his illness was, you know, the likeliness of being cured was almost zero.

So, you know, they have something called death doulas now, which is really interesting that they help families and they help people deal with their own mortality. And I think clearly this is an incredibly loving family. And I wish that when Jay was sick, we had had somebody to sit and talk to us and give us space to express our fears and our, you know, Jay's hope for the future for our daughters to be able to have those conversations, which are the hardest conversations you can have. So I have so much empathy and sympathy for that listener. And I think just being there for the person and just surrounding them by love or with love. There was this incredible show on Netflix called From Scratch. And Tembi Locke wrote it. It was based on a true story.

And I watched it and I just cried because her husband died of cancer. and the way he was surrounded by love and the way she was just there for him. And she was saying, Tiamo, Tiamo, because he was Italian. It was so moving. I'm sort of crying thinking about it. And I think families need help with this. You know, nobody reads a book about this. Nobody, it's such a new and painful experience,

but I think it can be turned into something that's truly transcendent. Yes. I think that people need help and she should get together with her loving sisters and maybe talk about it and talk to someone who specializes in this to say, Kate Bowler has a great podcast. She's been living with colon cancer for a long time. She talks a lot about this, this kind of stuff. And I did a whole video with a death doula and with Kate and with another

woman who lost her husband right after she gave birth to twins. And it's a very, very hard thing. What would you say, Chelsea, to this person? I think it's really important just to give as much love as possible, you know, to anybody who is leaving this earth. The situation is not in your control. But what you can control is how you deal with the situation and what you provide. And I think it can be a completely transformative relationship for you to be able to show up for your sister in this way, in this loving way, where it's not about necessarily you losing her right now. It's about you being there for her right now and working through your stuff on your own time with your family. I think a death duel is a great idea. And also to just start to think

about death in a different way, in a way that it doesn't feel like, yes, your sister may be leaving this earth, but her aura, her spirit is never going to be gone. I can't tell you how often I feel my mother around me. Katie, do you have that experience with Jay or with your sister that you feel them around you or that you have a sign when you know that they're giving you or anything like that? A little bit. I just don't think I'm very receptive to that, Chelsea, personally. I wish I were there are moments but I sometimes think oh I'm just imagining that yeah and I think I think that's true I think the more open you are spiritually and open-hearted you are the more that you will be able to receive from people once they are not on this earth you know the energy

just transforms it never dies it's not like she's going to go on and live up in heaven or whatever but her spirit will still survive because that's the energy that we all have you know our spirit it goes on and whatever, wherever it goes, you know, we'll never know. But I want you to look at it, try to start looking about it. You know, there's a book called Many Lives, Many Masters, which kind of blows your mind about reincarnation, which I don't really believe in. But when I read that book, it's impossible not to. These are firsthand accounts of people who have been put under hypnosis and then speak Italian for an hour. And they didn't even know they could speak italian you know like crazy memories that people have from their lives so i just i think having

that attitude and being open to what the possibilities of life after death are and what that means so that it doesn't feel yes you're not going to see her again in her physical form but that doesn't mean what she's imprinted on you thus far ever has to disappear and you have an opportunity now to to give her so much love and so much support and really be there for her in a way that is going to elevate you as well, that is going to make you proud of the way that this takes shape, whether she passes on

or whether she is able to survive, you should be prepared for the prior and that you can be here in this moment as somebody who is going to be holding her hand as she leaves this world, that is going to be there with that kind of love that that's all you could ever want in this world is to be born into love and leave in love.

and so I also think Chelsea you know just they're obviously a very close family and I think to be able to have an honest conversation with her sister like what do you need I love that you said don't think about losing her but just think about being there for her what do you need what can I do what are you afraid of I don't know if her sister has children I mean that's really hard too you know talking about even some of the practical concerns that she might have and just telling her that she is there for her to help her in any way big and small and it just we're afraid you know we're afraid to say I wish I had said to Jay I'm so afraid that you're going to die. And can you leave something for Ellie and Carrie, who are two and six and are never going to

know their father truly. And I just think that, that as a culture, we need to learn the language of loss and of illness and of death, and that we're so afraid of our own mortality. It just, it's almost paralyzing. Yes. And honoring this time in her life, you know, all the things that katie just said and then also having everybody around having a party having a dinner party you know to a celebration of her life yeah they're that's true you know they do living memorial services now i read yeah you know and maybe you should talk to someone by my friend laurie got leave she had a she's a therapist she had a patient with cancer really young you know i think she was in her early 30s and they did a whole celebration of her life while she was living

And, you know, maybe that's something, as you mentioned, I didn't mean to interrupt Chelsea, but that that is something you could do for her if that's something that would be helpful. Yeah. Closure with everyone is so helpful. The whole family member just showing up and just being there for her in every moment and fulfilling her requests, whatever they may be. And it's going to help you through the rest of your life and your loss, too, and your

grief and your family's, you know. So this is the time when families really have an opportunity to show up for each other. So I know it's a really difficult situation, but I think you can rise to the occasion and really just be a leader, like help lead this so that she's as comfortable as possible and gets anything she wants off of her chest or, you know, time spent with other family members and her wishes for after she's gone to honor all of those things, I think will be really helpful in what you're dealing with. You know, when my mom died, Chelsea, I was just bereft. You know, I was very close to both my parents. And I remember my minister calling, and I go to church some, I'm not super religious, but I really like my minister and he called to offer his condolences. And I told him I was just felt like an untethered helium balloon. You know, I just was sort of unmoored. And he said, remember those who love deeply, grieve deeply.

And it kind of turned a switch in me, and it made me go from immense sadness to immense gratitude. Obviously, this letter was written by someone with a very loving relationship with her sisters. And to kind of take a moment and appreciate that is also very comforting. Indeed. We ended on a really difficult note, but I think so many of us go through something like this that it's going to be really helpful to a lot of people. So thank you for sharing. Thank you, Katie, for sharing. It's always nice to see you. I love you. I hope I see you in person sooner than later. I hope so too, because there's so much I want to talk to you about and ask you

about. And I have to say, Chelsea, I really appreciate listening to you give advice because you're very wise and you're very smart. And I think you're extremely helpful to a lot of people, not to mention highly entertaining. Oh, we didn't even talk about Tucker Carlson. Oh my God. Oh my God, Tucker Carlson. I think that's apt because he doesn't deserve any more attention. Deserve our time. No, no, no. So ridiculous. As my daughter said, that's all they have. That's all they have are these culture wars and that's all they can talk about and it's just so poisonous and so ridiculous i loved it so

stupid poisonous also my niece was up here saying she goes they were on tucker cross and talking about how women if you've ever seen a woman back up a car then you know that they're not equal to men he said it back up a car like it's almost a parody of misogyny right it's not even in real step with real misogyny. You know what I mean? It's like, it's misogyny for morons. For 1950s. Yeah, misogyny. So yeah. So let's not give him any more airtime. But thank you so much for coming on. Oh, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed it. Catherine, thank you. It's been fun being with you as well. And Chelsea, please let me know when we're in the same city because I would love to spend some quality time with you. I would too. I would too. I'm going to reach out

to you and let you know when I'm in New York. You're in New York mostly, right? Yeah. Mostly New York. Yeah. Okay. Okay, cool. All right. Lots of love to everyone. Okay. Bye. Bye. Thank you. Okay. I've added some new dates for my new Little Big Bitch Tour. I'm going to tell you the ones that are not sold out because we're adding second shows in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Sunday, April 16th, we added a second show. We're adding a second show in Spokane, Washington, which is going to be Thursday so I'll be performing in Spokane Thursday and Friday and then we added Red Rocks Amphitheater in Colorado which is in Morrison Colorado and that is May 10th so and then I have one new addition Friday May 12th we added Monticello New York so that's a resort world

Catskills I don't think I've been to the Catskills well ever and we're continuing to add shows we We have a lot of cities on the list. Vegas, Tulsa, Oklahoma, Alabama, a lot of places in Tennessee. So if you're listening, go to ChelseaHandler.com for tickets. And you can see my stand-up special, Revolution, on Netflix, which is now streaming. So if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us an email at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartRadio, produced by Catherine Law and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert. i survived nine months in captivity and i've spent my life exploring how other people survive

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