Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Adult Onset Lesbianism with Porsha Williams

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

Real Housewives of Atlanta star Porsha Williams joins Chelsea to talk about coming out to her mom (officially), why anger management actually worked for her, and who her real friends are.  Then: A college student struggles with a bad apple in the friend group.  Poor-mannered parents want to split the check unfairly.  And a wife finds herself in what may be a more dangerous marriage than she realizes.   * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Executive Producer Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Phuket's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur. Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale.

Travel from October 26 to March 27. Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, Beyond Borders Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches There's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bill. Connection is everything. Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me.

I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana.

Jeremy Colhain. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcasts where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up?

He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcasts, the True Crime Comedy Podcasts, all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week, I bring on an amazing guest. Ooh, I scammed them.

What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So by age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is therapy for black girls.

We spend our surviving middle school run getting into what's happening inside your kid's brain, the group chat, and their friendships, and what you can do about it. Your child is not doing this on purpose. That's the kind of perspective we've been pulling from the psychologists and psychiatrists who studied this for a living. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Self-care September is your reminder to slow down, check in with yourself, get off your phone, and maybe ask, why am I like this? I'm Jemisbeg, host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, and this month we're helping you make sense of the person that you are becoming, from setting boundaries and navigating friendships. to understanding anxiety, confidence, relationships, and attachment.

Sometimes our biggest decisions, without us even realizing it, aren't driven by what we truly want, but by what will prevent us from feeling lonely or being alone. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, guys, here are my dates for the High and Mighty Tour. In September, I will be in Santa Barbara, San Diego, New York City, Philly and New Haven, Connecticut.

October is Atlanta, Baltimore, Saginaw, Michigan, Pittsburgh, Toronto, Boise, Idaho, and Spokane. And then in November, I'll be in San Francisco. I'm coming to Salt Lake City, Austin, Houston, Dallas, babies, I'll be there. And then in December, I am closing out my tour in Denver and Vancouver. So get your tickets at Chelseahandler.com for the high and mighty tour. Hello, Catherine. Hi, Chelsea.

Hello, good afternoon, good evening, good night, good morning. The other night I went to bed at 4.30. I think I talked to you right before that. Oh, did you hear my Xanax by kicking in? Yes, yes. I was very pleased. I was very pleased. It was quite a slumber that I had.

And then I woke up to go to the bathroom and it was 10.30 at night. And so then I was like, oh, no, then I just slumber. I got back into bed and I slept to the morning. I mean, I needed a Xanax, but I can sleep for 12 hours. I mean, that's wonderful. restorative. It's really what like LA has become to me. It's like sleep, sleep, sleep, sleep, and then go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. Well, I have a little update for us from one of our episodes. It was a timely one, so I thought we'd do it in an intro. Yeah, skinny one. Mia says,

My girlfriend Cass wrote to you and her letter was featured on your episode with Ross Matthews last year. I'm the closeted girlfriend she wrote about. I really appreciated you initially taking my side, even though you changed your stance in the end, L.O.L. We're approaching our two-year anniversary or two-year anniversary. I like to anniversary. Me too. And I'm ecstatic to share that I've since come out to my family and they've shown nothing but love and warmth toward Cass.

We couldn't be happier. She's such a huge fan of yours. She blasts your podcast every single morning when she gets ready for work. It makes total sense that she wanted to confide in you and get your advice when she was at her lowest. Her birthday is coming up on September 26th, followed by our two-year anniversary on the 27th. She would literally die if you could please make the time to give her. a quick happy birthday on your podcast. It would make her entire year. Thanks for doing what you do

every day for your listener. It's all the best. Mia. And what's her girlfriend's name? Cass. Cass. Happy birthday, Cass. Oh my God. That's so exciting. How old is Cass turning? We don't know. So, you know, we don't, we don't name a lady's age. Okay, well, we don't. I think that we're past that. I think it's okay. We should embrace our ages. I had an injury. Happy birthday. I hope And anniversary. And anniversary and all of the good things in life. Enjoy yourself. Enjoy your lover.

Enjoy your life. Gratitude. Attitude. You know who else had attitude? Who? Our guest this week. Oh. A good attitude.

I mean, she was really fun. Oh, yeah. I tried to set her up with my friend, actually. But it didn't come to, it didn't happen. She was flying out that day. Yeah, yeah. I was trying to, anyway. But.

You know, no, no, plant the seeds. I am. I'm always trying to plant the seeds of connection. In addition to running her business, go naked hair. and pampered by Porsche. You know our guests today from Real Housewives of Atlanta and Bravo's 20th anniversary Ultimate Girls Trip, which is now airing on Peacock.

Please welcome Portia Williams. Hi, cutie, patootie, fresh and fruity. Fresh off the reunion. I love it, yes. I watched your reunion. I survive. I know. Well, that's because you had to go to anger management.

Yes. And it worked. That was years ago. But it worked. Long lasting therapy. I'm telling you. Like I've been to therapy here and there. I'm a here and there type of therapy person.

Me too, by the way. Because once I get to a place and you disagree, then I'm like, I don't think you for me. I don't think this therapist is for me. No, I went to some sessions. And I think the number one thing they told me from anger management. So any other angry bitches out there, this is a lesson for y'all. We're all listening. Everyone listening is angry.

Everyone's listening is angry and nobody's okay. So this is the thing. Anger is an emotion. And you can allow yourself to feel that. The powers on what you do with that feeling. So I feel when I'm pissed. I feel when I'm upset. I'm taking all that in.

But I am using my power to hone that and keep my ass in my chair. Ooh. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. And you just think about what's more important. Is this moment more important than what I've built? It's not.

Well, and also, I just think that that environment of the real housewise, you know, it's not helpful for people with anger issues. Even if you didn't have anger issues, which I don't know any woman that doesn't have anger issues. We have a lot to be angry about. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know that I felt like I had anger issues. What I was was a normal last person put in the wacky role of reality TV.

in your real life, no one is walking up to you when they disagree. You're a bitch. No one is telling you that they don't like you. You're not reading comments that are like breaking you down. So I think all that was like a shock to the system. Because if you pay attention, my very first scene on Housewives, which it came down my timeline today, my very first scene, I say to someone, I'll press charges. So see, that's where I came from. I'm like, I'll press charges.

But that world was like, no, I'll lay hands. It changed quickly. I quickly adapted to it. You know what I'm saying? So I've learned to adapt now just in a different way. Right. I think we all kind of come to that. As we grow up, as women, we become more mature and understand.

I mean, yeah, I used to fucking go off the rails on people. I wouldn't lose my shit. But also that environment breeds that behavior. So it's very, so I want to ask you about that. experience being on that show and being part of the show and knowing what you know about how that show operates. Yeah. How do you view your entire experience if you looked at it as a whole? If I looked at it as a whole is a great sentence for me because clearly I can see it as a whole, right? It's recorded. Like I'm living my life in front of the camera, right? So there's that moment

of doing that. Then you see it on TV. So I have multiple opportunities to change what I don't like. like, right? So if I see myself reacting to a situation in the wrong way, it may feel like, oh my God, you know, I just cut somebody out or I just chase somebody down an alley. That may be one experience, but then to have to watch it again, it's like, oh, no, I'm truly disappointed that that's how I reacted. And then you think about it again in real time because people are talking shit about you. Now you're getting, you know, the consequences of that. So I have three opportunities to change your behavior, which I think a lot of people don't have. People don't get to see what they do.

If you fuck somebody up, they're going on. You're never going to see them again. In my world, I feel fucked up by what I did because I see it. And I have the opportunity to change that. And I think that's probably one of the perks is that I can, I'm always growing from season to season. And if you like say something a certain way and somebody calls you out on it, like they will play the tape. Like you kids like, I can't. They can play it back.

Yeah. You know, so I don't know why people are always like, she loves. eyes. Where, how? It's right there. It's literally right there. You know what I'm saying? I think the most thing that Housewife does is we're always labeling each other. She's a liar. She's a horse. She's a this. She's a that. You know, so you're combating that. But I have learned that if I, now I've learned within the past couple years that on this show, if I'm my authentic self, whatever you call me, I may be that in that moment. You know, I may be that. I may be a bitch. in that moment. But that's not who I am. I'm always evolving. I'm like so many different things.

I'm always changing. And I think that's why most of the bishops can't keep up. That's right. Do you have any real friends from the housewives? Like anyone you consider close friends? I do. I consider Frasier to be a close friend. I really do. I consider Cynthia to be a sister, a close friend as well. It is difficult to have, though. It is. These relationships have had to go through cycles because of the show. You know what I mean? Because there are certain times on the show on my end and on someone else's end where they do react for the camera.

It can become performative in a way. I mean, think about it. The show is very based on having the storyline and very based on who's more relevant within the girl group. If one of the girls feels insecure about their relevance in the group, they might take a fucking shot at you, you know, to get closer to relevant. to being relevant.

You know what I'm saying? So sometimes people fall prey to the cameras and the lights and the action. I really try not to. And I think I can do that more now because I don't have to, right? I've been here. I have tenure.

Like, I'm that housewife girl. You think of housewives, you're going to think of me as well. So I don't have to fight for that as much. I can kind of rest in who I am, whereas a lot of girls are kind of fighting for that relevant. Well, and you're the only one of the women on Ultimate Girls trip that are,

like that's not from the season, first season of their city, right? Yes. So I'm a vet. I'm what we call a vet. And those are OGs because they started their show. Like they're whatever it was supposed to be called in the beginning, which all of them weren't supposed to be called housewives. Right.

But they started that. And I came in on housewives. I think it was on the fifth year. I think on the fifth season. So yeah. But at the end of the day, I am a current housewife. I'm a vet. And when I came in, King and I changed the game.

So, you know, we earned our spot in history. And so, I mean, I'm real humbled to be able to represent. I really am. And tell me if I'm wrong, but it does kind of seem like you're a little bit of like the Queen Bee of Atlanta. You know, I think what it is, I enjoy being Queen Bee, but I also refer to everyone on the show as Queens. I honestly do.

I kind of push back at that a lot. Not that I don't enjoy being that bitch, okay? But I enjoy other women being that bitch too because it actually helps me. If you think about it, it is a business. And you're only as good as your weakest link. And if we have a show where everybody has their own fan base, everybody can relate each woman. You may not like certain people, but everybody is representing Atlanta well and they're also boss of bitches in their own right. That's good for me.

And honestly, for me, I hate it when Kenya left and when other heavy hitters left like Nini, et cetera. Shara, Shere, those people. I hate it when they left because it's more work for me. You know what I mean? Like when you're the big fish, you know, they're hungry. They're going to come and try to get that from you. So I enjoyed having other heavyweights in the show. And I actually root for these girls to become that.

I want y'all to be, you know, heavyweights and housewives. Because I want Atlanta to remain. I want that show to be successful. I'm a team player. And I think when it comes to the brand of housewives, when it comes to my relationship business with Bravo, I'm valuable because I'm a team player. And I believe in Atlanta. And I really want to succeed. But I will, you know, get with somebody if I have to.

But overall. Overall. You are so much fun to watch on that show. And I just love everything you're saying because not only is it applicable to that franchise and that show, it's applicable to the way women. should be running their lives. Exactly. And in business with other women and when you are like it's healthy competition. Right.

You know what I mean? It's not rooting against anybody. It's rooting for all of you for to, you know, the tide rises and all boats rise with the tide. Right. That vibe is the right vibe. That is the damn vibe. If you, if you can understand and make that vibe, make sense to you and your, yeah, cheers. Cheers.

Try this. This is mine. See if you like it. Cheers. What's it called? It's called Owls brew. Fodca lemonade.

Oh, that is good. Classic flavor. I have three flavors. Oh, wait, that's really smooth. Isn't that nice? I don't even taste the alcohol. It's good for day. Yeah, but it's a day drink.

It's not strong. You're not going to be all fucked up. Don't worry. Unless you're a lightweight. Are you a lightweight? I don't think so. I used to drink brown. No.

What kind of brown liquor were you drinking? Well, they haven't paid me yet, but it starts with the age. Okay, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. Okay. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions.

Set sail on Phuket's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur. Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale. Travel from October 26 to March 27. Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, beyond border. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies?

Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.com for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show.

Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anyone fighting.

That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business. And I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are.

Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

I don't really care. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debrie, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole By. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me.

That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you.

And I'm also here to last. with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their

craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay.

A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday, and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark

30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone.

I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on the I-Hurt Radio. Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. Middle School is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is Therapy for Black Girls. We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school run,

bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological chaos happening all this same time. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust.

There's belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists Keer Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have on shorts, so you can't do flips.

You have on the dressy up across your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the father's doing the work at home. You have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in their lives to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

your podcast. Self-care September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self-care actually means. Yes, self-care can be a long walk. It can be in everything shower. It can be putting your phone on, do not disturb, but sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff and understanding your patterns, your boundaries, finally figuring out while you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Gemma Spag, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, and each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s, from relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment, just becoming more comfortable with who you are.

Unlike the quarter life crisis, which is depicted as the collapse, the quarter life reinvention is the expansion and growth of something. When we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves, nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September, don't just take care of yourself, get to know yourself as well. Listen to The Psychology of Your 20s on the IHartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I was answering what you had said, the idea of women supporting women and business. And healthy competition. Healthy competition is so important on Real Housewives of Atlanta and really any other show.

I really hope that some of the newbies get that. Because back in the day, no matter what we went through on the show, we never really came at each other's businesses. Like that was a faux pop. Like, because we all understood the game, you know, we're on the show, we're sharing our life, we're sacrificing their privacy for entertainment or from, for, you know, just the brand or whatever. But when it came to business, we never tore someone's business down like that. And I think that's the difference in what's happening now is that some of the girls

seem to pick it what makes us women and what makes us successful women. And I think that is probably where. it's going to go bad. I think you have to change that mindset. We're doing the show, we're being entertaining, I'm sharing my life, people want to see us be more relatable to each other. They want to see, you know, let's talk about our kids and like how that is or our, let's talk shit about the men, you know, let's like stuff like that. And when it comes to business, let's encourage each other or say like, damn, I went through that or this or this or that. But for like your whole time on the show to be damaging women's reputation, their business, who they are is not good.

I also like what you're saying because you're working the system that's kind of working you. You know what I mean? Like, hello. Thank you. We should all be working the system. We all. Because at the end of the day, I don't know about you.

I'm not just doing this just to do it. Like I want to be like Kyle Richards. Like I want to be on this show and, you know, using this platform for as long as I can. You know, Kyle is not going to leave no matter what. Okay. I think she is proven that. I mean, how in the world she's still standing? But she is.

Okay? She is through it all. She's standing and she's twerking. And she's twerking with me, okay? She's involved to that from splitz to sparking. I mean, come on. Let's use this. Like you said, it's a machine and we're a part of it.

So play the game just a bit, but just be smart. Let's also still work together. as the small pieces to this big ass puzzle, let's get to come together and work it properly. And you have some companies too. Absolutely. You have your wig company. Right? Go naked hair.

Go naked hair. And that you try all the wigs on yourself, right? Yes, yes. And most of my units, my wigs are designed for me. So that's why they're all big. They're thick. They're TV wigs. They got high density.

The best hair. Like, no, you're ready to be a glam woman when you come get one of my units. Yeah. And what other big? And then I also have pampered by Porsche, which is a strictly sheet company. Strictly sheet. And I brought you some actually. Oh, great.

Thank you. Yeah. They're in one of my bags. But I brought you some because you have to fill them. That was so nice. Yeah. I started that company because I am a mommy's baby. I'm so close to my mom.

And when I was younger, I had to take naps in her bed. It was like the best, like the best sleep ever. And she introduced me to a vendor. And she tricked me and put the sheets on my bed. And I was like, wait, that feels reminiscent. And she was like, no, that's the company I was telling you about. And the sheets feel like her sheet. So I was like, I have to start this company.

So I contributed to my mommy. Here they go. Oh, that's so sweet. Oh, my God. Look at this. I love this. Okay. You can get sheets.

You can get her hair. All these things are available on QVC. On the Dear Chelsea Network. This is so sweet. Thank you. I love it. Pampered by Porsche. That's so cute. Thank you.

Are you done with men? I feel like if we're doing any labels, I will be closer to bisexual. Right. But, you know, I'm happy where I am. I'm happy where I am. Am I attracted to men? Yes, I'm attracted to women the same. Yeah.

But, you know, I'm happy where I am. I like the wave of adult onset lesbianism that has taken a hold. I think there's right. I think because I mean, I'm okay what you're saying that. Everyone is having the same kind of, or not the same, similar vibes where we're all kind of looking around being like, okay, wait a second, there's not one definition for what I'm attracted to. I have a girlfriend of mine who I think is really becoming attracted to me that I need to nip in the bud.

Oh, please nip it. Nip it because now that I have people know, like I feel like a lot of my friends are giving me an extra eye. Being like girlfriends because now that you're, now that people are up. It's a little eye. You know, you know it. Yeah, it's a little eyes, some kind of. And I'm like, uh-uh.

Yeah. How did, well, okay, so did what, how was you? I want to talk about your mother's reaction to you and your newfound sexuality. Because it's kind of like a year old, you've been dating women. Yeah. You've been with women or women. Yeah. We don't have to get into the details.

But what, how, what, you, you were worried about that conversation with your mother. No, I wasn't worried about it. I think my reaction on the reunion. and by crying, people thought that I doubted my mom's support. My mom watched me on Real Housewives say, somebody going to eat me out tonight. I mean, I said that on Real Housewives. So she knew, like, I was fluid.

She knew that. I just didn't know if she was going to trust my decision-making to go deep, head-on in another relationship. So it's partly, I guess, because she's a woman, but it's really, I had just come out of a divorce. And here I was introducing, my mom and my family to a new relationship and it was just kind of like are you sure you know and are you sure this is something you want to do publicly um so i didn't i just didn't know whether i was

going to have her full support or not right and and i did yeah because even though she knew that i had you know dealt with women before i'm assuming i don't know i'm assuming she caught the episode she never talked about it but i'm assuming my mom knew that i had probably been with women before And I think that I just didn't know what her reaction would be. I mean, you hear about parents who are like, you know, not that supportive of it. And I just didn't know. And I was just happy to know that she was like, you know, baby, if this is what you want, if you're happy, I'm glad.

And I think that maybe this would be really good for you. Yeah. I think every parent, well, no, I don't think because we get so many people who call in whose parents are terrible about these kinds of things. And you're just like, really? Like, how could you? Don't you want your child? One of the reasons that I never wanted to have children was because it would be so heartbreaking

to have a child that wasn't happy. You know, like that I can't control someone else's happiness. And I don't want to be responsible for someone else's happiness because I can't give someone happiness. You know what I mean? And that would be the most heartbreaking part about being a parent, I would imagine. Yes. I mean, you are a parent.

That is my goal. My goal is for her to be happy. However, I do have to say I don't feel responsible for her. happiness. I feel responsible for how I'm raising her, what I teach her, and helping guide her, but she's going to find her own happy. So I'm just making sure that she has enough money in a cushion so she doesn't have to have to do things for money. I'm making sure that she has her own knowledge so that she can make choices for herself and not other people. I'm making sure that she's confident in who she is by saying, are you proud of yourself instead of so much

Mommy's proud of you so she can see herself and value herself for herself and not see herself through other people. I want her to know she's already worthy. So I'm just doing things around her that will hopefully grow a healthy person and a person who's confident and happy for themselves. Yeah. If she's not happy, I'm going to kick somebody's ass. That's right.

If you're making her unhappy. But I hope that she would have the confidence to know that she can create her own world and be happy, whatever that looks like. Right. How old is she? She's seven. Yeah, she's seven. So back to, I want to circle back to, okay, do you spend a lot of time in Atlanta in real life?

Yes. So how has being on this show and being so well known, how has that impacted your real life in Atlanta? Like, and your real relationships? Well, being a real person outside of TV, it affected me in a big way. So I have been doing television at that point for maybe 10 years before I took a break. I left Real Housewives, not TV, because I still had chat room. I still was doing Dish Nation, but I left the Real Housewives, I think, at my 10-year mark. And I planned it.

I was 40. I already had my daughter. And I said, look, I just want some time for myself. During that time, I got peace. I was like, oh, peace. And once I got a hold to peace, I realized how valuable it was. So then when I re-entered into the TV world, this world again, I said, peace is number one. That is one thing I will never, ever fucking compromise again. And in order to keep peace,

I had to build boundaries. And those boundaries that I set weren't necessarily for other people because I can't control other people. It's a lot of fucking weirdos out here that I can't control. People are weird, you know, like 24-7, ooh, that was weird. Oh, she's weird. That's other people. My boundaries are things that I will do, things that I won't do, things that I'll take part in, things that I won't take part in, things that I'll discuss, won't discuss. So once I I decided to build those parameters of I have boundaries and I know who I am, that was it. Nobody can bother my peace. Anything that comes in it to mess up my piece, you're out.

And did you get that from therapy? Is that where you, like, learn how to do that? I got that from, well, not necessarily from therapy because guess what? When you're super happy, some people don't go to therapy. So I was really happy in my marriage and so I didn't necessarily go to therapy. I got that from valuing what was most important no matter what. Everything outside of TV. Spend more time with my daughter.

You know, and valuable time with my mother. You know, spending more time with my friends. Just thinking about what's going to be there when everything else is gone. And once I got a piece of that, it was like, mm-mm. So when I do housewives, it's a gig. Like it's for those three to four months. And once it's done, it's done. I move on to the next gig.

I move on to the next job. So that's how I think about it now. Whereas before, I thought every girl on the show should be my real friend, you know, and I was trusting them, and I thought they were supposed to be trusting me. It was like such a real, you know, interaction. Now I'm for whoever shows their authentic self to me. But if you really want to just come in here and have a banter, we're going to have that. But if you like a Fabra and like a Cynthia and Drew, which I'm learning more and more,

want to have a real relationship, I'll have that with you. So I don't mesh those worlds as much as I used to. So you don't mesh your reality friends with your real life friends? Well, my reality friends are my real friends. Fadre and I do talk and spend time off camera. Cynthia and I talk and spend time off camera. But when it comes to my real life, my friends are my mommy, my sister, my baby.

Like I have a really small circle. Yeah. In real life, I'm an introvert. I always say like, I'll bring out my extroverted side when I'm working. But I'm truly an introvert. I can truly be at home. I don't have to be in streets.

I don't got to be at this event, that event. I love being to myself. I actually really love spending time with just me. I talk to me. I probably talk to me more than I talk to anybody. So I don't have a problem being alone. So I think that's probably one of the best things for me, especially as a celebrity. It's one of the best things.

Yeah, yeah. I feel that way too. I find my company to be good. Yes. And it makes you exclusive. Right? It does. By default.

It does. And you're like, yeah, I'm having a pretty good time by myself. I spent two weeks in Madrid by myself. I checked into this hotel. I went to Spanish school for three hours a day in the morning. That's everything. And then I would go out and take myself to this beautiful, like, expensive lunch and have fresh fish and drink white wine alone, read a book or study my Spanish.

And then I would be home in bed every night by like 8.30. And I'm like, this is the fucking life. It's the love. Life, I'm telling you, if you have not traveled on your own as a woman, you have to do it. When before I married my last husband, I, he sounds so funny. Wow, I did have too. Which one was your favorite husband, ex-husband? Which one is your favorite ex-husband?

Oh, my favorite ex-husband. I favored them all. Yeah, I favorite them all for those moments. They were a life that I lived for that moment. Yeah, I forgot about them now, so I really can't tell you who's favorite. But I'm assuming I favorite them. But when it comes to traveling alone, I think I was turning 40 or had turned 40 or something like that.

But that new year, I said, I'm going to travel alone. I went to Turks and K. Coast by myself. And I had a ball. There was one day I was bored as hell. I'm going to lie. Now, you got to tell the truth. There's a day you bored. There was a day I was really bored.

I was there for like 10 days. And there was a day I was somebody who's, God damn, I'm bored. Is anybody who I can call? I was like, what can I do? And I ended up going to this restaurant, met the restaurant owner, really nice person or whatever, not interested in them. And I said, hey, I'm going to get a yacht tomorrow. We should like to go on a yacht? He was like, sure.

So he came on the yacht. He gave me a tour of Turks and Caicos. And we just had a good time as friends. Then the next day I did like this marathon spa day to take up the day. And I was at the spa for like seven hours. Like I was at the pool. I had like did the spiritual thing like I don't know I really think as a woman is liberating to spend your own money on useful yourself and go out of town and enjoy just self just peace and also doing what the fuck you want to do yeah what I want to do and you know like if I want to get into bed at four o'clock in the afternoon and watch TV for the rest of the night yes then that's what I'm going to do you pay to do that yeah I'm paying to do that at one point during this trip I kept feeling I was like, I feel like I'm a mother away from my children, but I don't have children.

But I'm like, this is, this must be what mothers feel like. That's that little, that's that little voice that always fucks with you and tells you what you don't deserve, what you can't do. And you've got to tell the voice to shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah. I'm on this vacation. I pay for this. And if I want to waste this money in this hotel room all day in this bed, I'm going to do that.

Yeah. There's all this pressure when you go on vacation where you feel like you're supposed to like get the most out of every day. And I hate that fucking attitude. I don't want to get the most out of every day. I just want to get a little bit. You know? I'm trying to like live it up every single day in that way.

No, that is not what vacation is. You have not lived until you went on vacation and wasted the money. Like that's what you're supposed to do. Yes. Yes. Like are we serious? Just like when people are home, it's like, why are y'all home always trying to be outside of your house? I'm trying to be in my house enjoying what I'm paying for.

Are you crazy? Because at the first of the month, I'm paying in regardless of, I'm going to enjoy this house. I ain't got to go nowhere. Yeah. I feel like, I feel like a lot. Now they have all these new terms, like you could be an extroverted introvert or an introvert. There's an introvert. Amberort is like both. Yeah. Like you're ambidextrous. Like you're all, all of those things. No one is one thing. Like no one wants to just be out all day all day long for 20. I mean, unless they have a disorder. You know what I mean? Like talking for 24 hours straight. Who wants that? It's exhausting.

I don't like, and I don't like small talk. I'm not great at it. I end up telling all my business because I need to get in there. I know, me too. I have the same problem. I can't, I can't, you know, so. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here.

Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Pouquet's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your guide in Kuala Lumpur. Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale. Travel from October 2020. to March 27. Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, Beyond Borders.

Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus.

From $94 a month, price guaranteed for two years on Internet, with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me.

I'm Lexi Youwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not gonna get anyone fighting. That is wild.

I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business, and I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, there would be so much more peace in the world. We're gonna talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser.

We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I would do, what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Liar. Listen on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The improvised character comedy podcast were each week a

panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So you're, so we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class?

No! I've been dying too! I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore. on 14. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland bookstore yesterday and I heard Norah Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way. You have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Cottrell is

reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each

other. You never seen Italy so quiet as Wonder Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debrie, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, I scammed them.

What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper. like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents.

Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy, and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcast. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. Middle School is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is Therapy for Black Girls. We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist

and a psychiatrist who's raising two Black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological and psychological chaos happening all this same time. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in.

Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turned the conversation toward the fathers. sitting down with therapist Keir Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have on shorts so you can't do flips,

you have on the dressy up across your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the father's doing the work at home. You have to get off her device, but the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in their life to miss out on.

This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Self Care September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self-care actually means. Yes, self-care can be a long walk.

It can be in everything shower. It can be putting your phone on Do Not Disturb. But sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff. And understanding your patterns, your boundaries, finally figuring out while you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Gemma Spag, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, and each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s, from relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment, just becoming more comfortable with who you are. Unlike the quarter life crisis, which is depicted as the collapse, the quarter life reinvention is the expansion and growth of something. When we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves, nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September, don't just take care of yourself.

Get to know yourself as well. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Are you like a night person or a morning person? So I think I may be pre-menopausal because I'm up all night. I don't know what it is. I think it's one of the symptoms. I'm not really sure. I don't think they even have a diagnosis to tell you that you are.

I think it's just by symptom. But I'm up all night to like 2.8. And if I do fall asleep, I'm right back up at like 5 a.m. So yeah, it's weird. It's these nights. I got to start back taking my progesterone. Yeah, I'm on all that stuff. Are you on that?

Have you done the testosterone palette? I've done, no, I put the cream on. But then I started getting, I started getting these long black hairs growing out of my thigh where I was putting the cream. So my doctor just told me yesterday, I go, can we, I have to get laser hair removal again. I'm like, I don't need black hairs on my thigh. Oh, yeah, no, no, no. And she goes, oh, no, no, no, she goes, oh, no, no, no, no.

you're supposed to put it on the back of your knee, the testosterone, because hair won't grow there. Oh, and because you're going to forget that the back of your knee is hairy? That's not. Can you imagine? I have no hair. I've gotten laser hair remover on my legs, but I just have hairy backs of my knees.

Got a nice little Afro bag there. Oh, yeah. Hell no. Or she said you could put it on your clitoris. And I was like, but it can grow. It can grow. The clitoris?

Not hair, but the clitoris can. The clitoris does grow. It gets a little longer. Would you say, oh, no. Why? That sounds like a good time. You don't want to go down that road. Why would you sound?

I know if I want my clitoris to get bigger. I don't know. I'm kind of masculine. I would love to. You like, you want something a dipsy-doodle with. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

I don't know what kind of show this is, but I think that would be great. You want to tap up. Yeah, you want to tap that. I don't think that would be a bad thing. I hear what you're saying from your perspective. Yes. Since I am not bisexual yet, really formally. Wait, are you.

Are you happening to that at some point? You said it twice. It's in my chart. Okay. Do you know what I mean? I mean, like we've done it all. Why not? It feels like it tracks with my lifestyle and that at some point that's what's going to happen.

Okay. I just have, I haven't done that yet. I'm, you know, like, in an official way, but I just feel like that's par for the course with me. Yeah, it might be par for the course. And I'm also open to all sorts of scenarios. You know what I mean? Like, who knows? I don't know how I'm going to feel in a week.

Like, I don't declare that anything's off the table. Right. Because as soon as you do, then that's what happens. Yeah, whatever it is, it will be natural. It will be natural. And I think that, you know, for some women, it just feels more natural. If it doesn't feel like it, don't do it. You know what I mean?

Did you? Yeah, yeah, I wouldn't. At this age, I don't feel pressure to do anything that doesn't make me, you know, want to do it. Right. Like, I'm not doing things for other people at this point. Right, exactly. When you were younger, did you hook up with girls? Yeah.

Yeah. I did. Now, well, I said it like I was in there, like, really doing it. No, I like kiss the girl when I was like a kid or something like that. Yeah, I just kissed a kid and I like to hunch, you know, the little gene thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a little jean hunting thing. But no, I think once I got older is when it happened to me.

It was like a friend of mine and then it was like, oh, let's explore and something like that. But, you know, now I just feel like I am more comfortable right now. now with a woman. I just feel natural. It just feels good. It feels like, I don't know. It just feels good to me. That's nice.

Yeah. That's nice, too. I did, used to hook up with this little girl when I was a little girl. I had a girl. I was, my parents had the summer house of Martha's Vineyard. Her name was Martha, and I would go into this deli, and Martha would work at this deli. I've spoken about this before. I was, like, 10 or 11, and she was like 12 and 13.

Okay, okay. She was the older woman. Oh, she knew. Yeah. She invited me over to her house, and I went over to her house, and she was like, hey, do you want a cigarette? And I was like, a cigarette. Oh, she was real grown. She was like grown in the South.

Yeah. I was like, okay, yeah, let's smoke cigarettes. I love this idea. And then the next time I went over, she was like, do you want a beer? And I'm like, yes. What else do you have? Get you ready. And then the next time I came over, she's like, do you want to go in the closet?

And I can. And then we went. And I'm like, okay. Yeah. And she goes, okay, pull your pants down and lie down. Wow. And I did. And she just serviced me for the whole, and ended up servicing me for the whole summer. Wow.

Until she asked me to service her in your term. Yeah, I was like, I was like, what time should I be here tomorrow? This is an imperfect arrangement. It's a different type of tickle. And she was just went down on me all summer long. That's crazy. And I was like, thank you so much at the end of the summer. No, thank you.

I was so, yeah, I was sorry to say goodbye. No, that is really funny because she took you straight to, I guess, third base. Yes. I was going to say mine was with a little blonde-haired girl. And, oh. Yeah, I remember she, I was at this daycare. Oh, we couldn't have been no more than like six or seven. And we had this big tire that we used to go to and we used to kiss at the tire.

Yes. Yeah. Kissed at the tire was. Kissing the tire. Did you do that too? Yeah. Yeah. They need to ban these tires from schools because that's what we're doing.

It was like a little privacy. Where are the tires? Oh, on the playground. They're on the playground. They're huge to us because we're little. We're like only six and seven. And I remember we used to kiss in the tire. Yeah.

I liked that age of, I remember telling my sisters about this. I did it in one of my stand-up specials talking about this Martha girl, right? And my sisters were like horrified when they heard it for the first time because they were in the audience. I didn't give them any like, you know, heads up, of course. That's how we do family. Yeah, exactly. Find it out.

You find out what I write in or publish it. And they were like, oh my God, Chelsea, you were molested. I'm like, I wasn't molested. I was a participant. I was like, you were like, she was 13. You were 11. I'm like, guys, I loved every minute of it. Okay.

She didn't have to crank my legs open. They flew, okay? By the end of the summer, I just would light a cigarette drink a beer and I'd lie down and be like, come on, let's go. Let's get the part of 30. Okay, well, you know now as an adult, you're going to have to do some doing too. Yeah, I understand. Not to receive.

You're going to have to be the doer. So you got to practice that. Yes. Some men are pillow princesses, quite frankly. Oh, I can never be with a man. No, no. I'm a pillow princess with a man. Yes.

No, no, no. I'm not you. Right. I agree. But with a woman, I'm not a pillow princess. Right. So yeah, no. With a man I was, I was like, you should be happy.

Exactly. You should be grateful and lucky. Before we give advice, we're going to have callers and we're going to give real life advice. Okay. But can you think of the worst advice that you've ever been given? Oh, my God. The worst advice that I've ever. been given. Damn, the worst.

That's the, the people always ask you, what's the best? I guess the worst advice was this one time this man told me to tell his family I was older than I was. And that was probably the first time that I was like, I think, I think I'm not in a safe space. Yeah, he could, and I, and now that I think back as a grown woman, I'm like, wow, he was a predator. Like, he actually told you to say that you were an older age than you were because he weren't.

are supposed to be with that, a man that old, and he was taking advantage of you. How old were you at the time? I was only 17. And he told me to tell him that I was 20. Yeah, I was 17, telling him that was 20. But that was one of the first encounters with the predator that I can think of. And that was kind of like the gateway of me allowing, by lying, taking part in it that walked into that. Yeah. So you went along with it. I went along with it that day. And then I continued from that mind frame to go along with it. See, at first he was just an older man dating a younger girl. I didn't really understand.

But when I took part in it, then it felt like shame's on me too, shames on him. So I continued in it some type of way. I don't know. Yeah, that's what I was like, like, what do my mind go there while we're told? Well, we all do things like that when we're young, though. We do stupid things because you don't realize the impact of that until you are an older woman. You don't. And you understand, like, how inappropriate it is.

Like, I had a lot of inappropriate things happen. Exactly, exactly. So, yeah, I wish that I wouldn't have lied for him because then I probably wouldn't have lying for him or myself or anybody else through that pattern. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry, Debbie Downer. No, no, that's okay.

That's okay. We get deep on this show. Yeah, we get to. Yeah, we roll with the punches. Good. Well, this one is not super deep, but this is just a quickie or one drink question of the day. It comes from Jesse.

Jesse says, my in-laws always want to split the check down the middle when we go out with them. Oh, so annoying already. It is. I'm so sick of everyone splitting the cheque. check. I mean, why are people still splitting a check? Why don't they just like have somebody pay it and then cash out? Yes. That one person. Exactly. That's what, yeah, that's what Venmo's for. Yeah, let's not embarrass ourselves. I say that like I have a Venmo account. I don't need that. Somebody's not a

has one. My husband and I are on a budget and try not to order too many extras, but we end up paying for alcohol and apps that everyone orders together. Recently, I asked for a separate check and they all looked at me like I had two heads, insisting we pay it together. How do I feel? How do I fix this so we can stick to a budget, Jesse. Just be very honest about that you're on a budget. That's his parents. They could respect that. Be like, listen, you guys are drinking alcohol.

That's expensive. We're on a really tight budget. So they expect us to wait. Let me get this straight. They expected her to pay a check that had drinks on it? Absolutely not. No. Because that's going to raise it up.

No. I think getting a separate check is like there's nothing they can say to that because you're like, no, these are the things I ordered. Exactly. You know what? Why don't you just let your card decline in front of them? one time. Show them. Show them. Show them, better you can tell them. Let that lady come and say, decline. Then they'll know. Like, y'all take advantage. Yes. But I, okay, so I take back

my initial reaction because if you are on a budget, I understand. I just feel like with splitting checks, and this is more for me personally, because I do want to respect the fact that many people are on budgets. And for me personally, I would rather everyone just, I think it's gross to talk about money at a dinner table. Do you know, what I mean? And I know that's probably a luxury, but I think it's more apt to send somebody the money afterward or to figure out an arrangement before you ever go on these things. It's like, you're going to get this dinner and then I'm going to get this dinner or you're going to get lunch and I'm going to get dinner. Whatever the situation is. You got to last time. I'll get it this time.

But she needs to be using her husband or boyfriend's credit card. Like, because his parents shouldn't even assume that you're going to pay a check that big. Like, why are you paying for his family to eat? Let's just go there. And why is that? Why is it? allowing you to pay. And why are you exactly? That's crazy. Why is he? Why is he allowing?

Yeah. Good point. They should be treating you. They should be paying. No. We're on your side, girl. Okay. It took a long way to.

It was a twisty. It was a twisty road to get there. Ready for your next adventure? Etihad's global sale is here. Witness Nairobi's living traditions. Set sail on Pouquet's pristine waters. Or let wonder be your god. in Kuala Lumpur.

Book by Thursday and take off to over 50 destinations on sale. Travel from October 26 to March 27. Book now at Etihad.com. Etihad, beyond borders. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pastos survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing The cucumbers? Get Bell pure fiber internet with craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Lisa, we should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one. which means we have wildly different references,

occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anyone fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business, and I've always got something to say.

If men were just honest about this, they would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me.

Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald. And we're the host of the host of the podcast. of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast. The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers.

What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore. Okay. A panel of New Yorker cartoonists.

Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too. I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14th. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday, and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30. No way.

We'll have to come to the last bookstore, though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other.

You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on artists on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debrie, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Byer. Ooh, I scammed them. What?

I could talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to today. I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents.

Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you. I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone.

Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is therapy for black girls. We spend real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological and psychological chaos happening all this the same job. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference

between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in. Spinning in says, I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists Keir Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage.

You don't have on shorts, so you can't do flips. You have on the dressy. You can't cross your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the father's doing the work at home. We have to get off her device. But the reality is there's a lot of life out there that we don't want you as your adults in their lives to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run.

Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Self-care September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self-care actually means. Yes, self-care can be a long walk. It can be in everything shower. It can be putting your phone on Do Not Disturb. But sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff.

and understanding your patterns, your boundaries, finally figuring out why you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Gemma Spegg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, and each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s, from relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment, just becoming more comfortable with who you are. Unlike the quarter-life crisis, which is depicted as the collapse, the quarter-life reinvention is the expansion and growth of something.

When we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves, nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September, don't just take care of yourself. Get to know yourself as well. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our first caller today, this is Allison, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I'm 20 years old and a full-time college student. I'm living with my best friend next year, but before that, I lived in an apartment with three girls. However, one of them I could not stand. Lots of lying, stealing my items, passive-aggressive comments, and countless arguments.

Like the real housewise. Yeah. Welcome. Ever since I lived with her my freshman year, it was impossible for us to get along. And for a while now, I've been playing this game where I pretend to get along with her and be friends with her for the sake of this internship we have together. I don't want things to be awkward, and my bosses at the internship are really strict about no drama.

I really need some advice on how to stop being her friend or at least some advice of putting up boundaries so I can finally be at peace. Normally, it's relatively easy for me to drop people, but this specific case is taking way too long, Allie. The specific drop. And they share best friends. So this is like her friend's friends. So yeah. With the clip notes.

Okay. So hi, Ali. Hi, Chelsea. Hi. We have Portia here today as our special guest. Hi. Hi. Hi.

Hi. Okay. So give us the lowdown. What's the dynamic? Okay. So I'm a junior in college. Like, I just started. And freshman and sophomore year, it was an apartment.

of the four of us. It's my best friend and then two other girls, the one girl I don't like, and then her other best friend. So we actually like the other girl, like her best friend. We just don't like the one girl in particular. I'm talking, like throwing parties in our apartment and leaving it completely trash for us to come home to, stealing my clothes from the dryer, and I'm literally like having to go into her room to get my clothes back, lying. She has like this terrible, like, victim complex. And now we have this internship together. And I've been dying to get away from her and just, like, at least put up some boundaries

so she doesn't think that we're all, like, this, like, big friend group. I just, I just want peace. I really, I just want peace. Dang, how do you kick her at the friend group when she's, like, that tied in? Yeah. Because my best friend feels the same way. Because we stopped living with her, but for the internship, we all have it together. So it's a very like close net internship and it's like how do I like take a step back without like, you know, like starting drama.

She's going to be there. Well, Portia is a real housewife. So she has to deal with this sort of situation. Yeah. Right. Like being around women you don't get along with. Just ignore her. Just ignore her there.

Well, I don't know because that can create its own drama, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's like I feel like you have to. It's so hard when you're this young because. everyone is just so fucking emotional. You know? Like, of course, of course you're emotional.

I mean, you're a baby. So of course it's like, you know, you can't be like, let's be professional. Right. Because for the sake of the internship, because, you know, it's like, well, what does that mean? Am I not your friend? And then her feelings get hurt. And it's almost like you kind of want to just make her think everything's okay and

just kind of distance yourself, right, without any drama. And is there a way you can do that? Yeah. How do you spend a little time with her? How can you spend the least time with her as possible? Okay. So basically, I guess I could just, like, honestly, like, be normal. Like, at the internship, because it does require us all to, like, be together pretty much all the time.

But outside of the internship, I guess I could just, like, not necessarily, like, make plans or, like, just... I just, I don't want to isolate myself, but, like, also, I just want to isolate myself from her. But it's so... It's just hard. I guess I could just like specifically make plans without her. But then also she's like the most jealous person I know. And like she feels the need to always be involved. So I don't.

It's hard. She doesn't seem very self-aware. I promise you. No, no, not at all. She's not self-aware at all. She has no idea that we had a girl like that on the ultimate girl's trip. Right. She was annoying a lot of people and she didn't even know it.

I'm not going to name who she is. It's who she is. You can count. Tess who you think I'm talking about. But she's not that self-aware. And what we had to do as her friends is sit down and say, hey, this situation, this is what you did and this is how we reacted.

Did you see that? This situation, you did this and this is how we reacted. So I think maybe like sitting her down and telling her like, you know what, when you borrow my clothes, I don't mind, but I would rather you tell me first. You know, and if you're going to take an item out of the dryer, can you also fold everything else? Like make it difficult for her.

But also, like, because she's not self-aware, make her aware of what she's doing. Because in college, she's probably coming from home. She's probably spoiled. Everything is about her at home. And now she's coming here and y'all are not telling her. She's thinking you love her and she's annoying the hell out of everybody. Yep. I think you literally would have just said it word for word perfectly.

Yeah, tell her. Yeah. I think that's actually a good lesson just for life in general. Like, you know, you're going to have to, like, deal with this problem more than with this girl. Like this is going to happen over and over again with people in your life that are annoying you and that you have to figure out a way to work around. So if you come from a really like sweet place

and you're like, hey, listen, I know we've had some tension. I just want to explain to you what bothers me and also just make it really sweet in the hopes that maybe there is a friendship there if she has some more self-awareness, you know? Who knows what it could build, but don't put any pressure on it, but just be like, listen, I don't mind, you know,

like give her the benefit of the doubt what Portia just said, which is really nice. I don't mind that you borrow my clothes. But you have to kind of ask me first. It's my stuff. Yeah. I didn't grow up like the way, you know, like just taking stuff. Yeah.

You know. Right. And without insulting her or her background, just like, you kind of put it on you. Like, this is where I came from. So this is what I'm used to. And this is what I'm more comfortable with. And you can also invite her to be like, do you have any stuff that you want to talk about? Like, let's all have some healthy boundaries because we're entering the world.

You're like, this is your first time on your own without your parents. Like, what does skill set to develop at this age if you can work around these kinds of problems so that you don't end up on the real housewives of whatever? I mean, it could lead to a lot of good things. It's so it really depends what you're open for. Yeah. I guess I was just kind of like assuming that she would just like understand like, hey, like if you want to borrow like my pants, just ask. But like I guess it was my fault to just assume like, oh yeah, she knows to ask me.

But I can't just like assume. Assume that she doesn't know and assume the position of the one who needs to tell her. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. And in life, you can set boundaries again for yourself, but you can also vocalize them as well. So, and that's what you're going to learn. This is just a big lesson for you to learn moving forward, even outside of college, just like Chelsea said.

Yeah. There's always any workplace. There's always going to be like one person who's kind of an asshole. But they may have a good heart. That's right. She may actually have a good heart. And that's what you're going to see after you tell her the truth. You're going to see how she reacts.

Has she been doing this shit on this stuff on stuff? How old are you? I'm 20 years old. I'm very young. Okay. She probably hasn't been doing it on purpose. But you'll see that once you tell her, you'll get the real reaction to see what she really is. Right.

Okay. That's honestly like a really good, like, perspective. I feel like when I, because I live with my best friend, so it's kind of like easy for me and her to just go to each other and be like, oh my gosh. I can't think she did this and all this kind of stuff. And like I feel like sometimes like we feel like we're fighting like internal battles like in our heads because we're just like is she doing this on purpose? Like or does she not know? Does she not have like any sense to ask?

So it's like it's good to hear like from a different perspective. Yeah. And I would say don't gang up on her and have this conversation with the whole group of you. Yeah. I think this is a one-on-one conversation so that she feels, you know, and be sincere. Be really sincere. And that way it's like you're. you're yeah you're like you know you're helping yourself kind of grow up a little bit too yeah yeah because

I just I don't want to be like I don't want to come across as like mean I just kind of just want her to understand me more so like maybe that can like heal part of our friendship and instead of just like throwing it away and like waste of time you're not amazing you're helping her you're that's exactly what you just said that was great yeah yeah you're so cute I just love it I'm jealous that you're in college I want to be in college. Well, Chelsea, I'm literally waiting for my college refund to come because I want to come to your show so bad. I want to come up with my mom so bad.

I'm really waiting for my refund and I'm going to buy the tickets right away. I'll put you, no, honey, I'll put you on the list. I'll give you tickets. I'll give you tickets. Oh, my God. See? Yes, of course. Yes.

Yes. You're in college. Okay, I'm going to for those. And she's bringing her mom. Okay, great. Great. You and your mom. We'll set it up, Catherine, right?

Yes. Okay. And take that money and you can take this girl out for like a coffee and a muffin. Yes. There we go. Yeah. It's really great. You brought that full circle.

Oh my God. Thank you so much. This means a world to me like literally like getting to hear like advice from like all of you guys is like the best. I just, oh my gosh. I never thought I was going to like actually be able to talk to you. I submitted this like a month ago and I was like you know what? Like it might happen. It might not.

But I'm just. Oh my gosh. Divine alignment, baby girl. You know what? Here's another thing, because before you got on, Portia and I have been talking, and the three of us were talking. And we're just talking about, like, women bringing each other up instead of putting each other down, right? Healthy competition is fine. There's always going to be competitiveness. That's just human nature. But it's all, like, all ships rise with the tide. Yep. So we want everybody lifting up, not, you know, like, so you just want to give people the benefit of the doubt and just help her bring out her best self. Exactly. Right. Nobody's probably ever done that either. And after you go meet with her one-on-one,

don't go back and gossip with the other girls. Tell them in a really positive way. Hey, oh, we're not going to talk about her anymore because I've had to talk. It's going to change. We got to point it into a more positive direction. Yes. There you go. It's too easy to be negative nowadays.

I just, I need to be more positive. That's true. You can do it. I love you. Okay, Ellie. Text me after this and we'll get tickets figured out for you, okay? Are you? Okay.

Thank you so much, guys. Thank you so much for all these advice. It means the world to me. This just made my year. You just made our day. You're so cute. All right. We'll talk to you soon, All right.

And I just know what happens. Report back, okay? Yes, yes. I will 1,000% report back. Thank you. Okay, sounds good. Bye. What a cutie.

So innocent. That voice. That voice. I just wanted to go in there and just put her on my lap. Okay, she's like, I don't want to be mean. Oh, I know. You know when you get into that negative, like there's nothing worse than constantly talking about one person.

You know, when you're a teenager and you're young and you don't know any better and you're like, you're just sitting there and you're venomous about other people and you, and then now when you're around them, you got to act fake. You know what I mean? Because you've talked about them so much. Now when it come around, the air is thick. Yeah. Yes.

It's just that's another thing you learn as you get older as a woman that like the negativity cycle is, you know, is a choice. Right. You can either sit around and talk negatively or you can be positive and do something with yourself. And she seems like the leader of her group. So she can actually be the one to change the whole thing for everybody. The whole name is sounded fucked up. There was two best friends and then another fucking best friend and then one out and left

field. I was like, what? Wait, I don't know. Anyway. It's like, just get her fired. But we can't say that. Anyway, get her back on the phone. We have another idea.

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Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pasto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full? or come home at all. And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet

with Craved Netflix and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is everything. Lisa?

We should tell them about our new show. Oh my God, Lexi. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Youanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa Di Giulio, the old one,

which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. I'm not going to get anywhere fighting. That is wild. I learned that about you today. Now in my 30s, being the founder of new shoes, good taste is my business,

and I've always got something to say. If men were just honest about this, they would be so much more peace in the world. We're going to talk about dating, relationships, beauty, getting older, and a little wiser. We're best friends, but we don't always agree. Because you told us how accommodating you are. Obviously, I would do what I think I could do to fight the fight, but there's only so much fight I can fight. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me. Don't lie to me.

Liar. Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I don't really care. I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The True Crime Comedy Podcasts all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on incredible guests like Conan O'Brien, Iowa Debrie, Lamorne Morris, and Nicole Beyer. Ooh, I scammed them. What? I can talk to you for an hour. You're a generational yapper like me.

That's why I had to make yapping a job. And the scams run the gamut. I'm talking about scams from the 1800s all the way up to I also warn you and keep you safe against scammers. Call your grandparents. Tell your parents to stop clicking on links, please. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. If there's a scam, I'm here to protect you.

And I'm also here to laugh with you. So if you like fun, if you like comedy and you like learning and protecting yourself from criminals, start listening to Scam Goddess on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, this is Kylie Breakman. Angel Geratana. Jeremy Colhane. Patrick McDonald. And we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists Podcast.

The Improvised Character Comedy Podcast where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of wellness influencers. What I try to do is faux journal. I don't know. Have you guys heard of faux journaling? Yeah, it's reading. It's called reading. So we don't like to use that word anymore.

A panel of New Yorker cartoonists. Have you guys done Terry Gross's Peloton class? No! I've been dying too! I'm so sorry. I'm seeing a reading of Sadako and the Thousand Paper Cranes by Audra McDonald's at the Wonderland Bookstore on 14th. That's crazy. I went to the Wonderland Bookstore yesterday and I heard Nora Jones do a reading of Zero Dark 30.

No way. You have to come to the last bookstore though. Kim Cottrell is reading the guitar tabs of yesterday. A panel of Eurovision participants. And we do a little Halloween. sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone.

I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. You never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to artists on artists on artists on artists on the IHeard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. By age 11 or so, at least 70% have a phone. Middle school is a different world than the one we grew up in. I'm Dr. Joy, and this is there for

for black girls. We spent real time on it in our surviving middle school run, bringing in a child psychologist and a psychiatrist who's raising two black girls of his own to talk about what's really going on with our kids right now. So it's literally physiological and neurological and psychological and psychological chaos happening all the same time. We got into group chats and gaming, friendships and bullying, and how to tell the difference between healthy monitoring and the kind of surveillance that erodes trust. There's belonging. You could think of belonging as I can be myself and I can still be accepted. And then there's fitting in.

Spitting in says I have to change who I am in order to avoid rejection. Then we turn the conversation toward the fathers, sitting down with therapists Keer Gaines on Black fatherhood and what it means to raise a daughter through this stage. You don't have on shorts, so you can't do flips, you have on the dress, so you can cross your legs. That's the range of this run, from screen time to identity to the fathers doing the work at home.

You have to get off her device, but the reality is there's a lot of life out there. that we don't want you as your adult and their lives to miss out on. This has been our surviving middle school run. Brought to you by the people who spend their careers thinking about exactly this. I'm Dr. Joy. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Self-care September is here, which means it's time to rethink what self-care actually means.

Yes, self-care can be a long walk. It can be in everything shower. It can be putting your phone on Do Not Disturb. but sometimes it's actually about sitting with the uncomfortable stuff, and understanding your patterns, your boundaries, finally figuring out while you keep doing things that you swore you would never do again. I'm Gemma Spegg, the host of the Psychology of Your 20s podcast, and each week we unpack the psychology behind the experiences that shape your 20s,

from relationships and friendships to money, anxiety, confidence, attachment, just becoming more comfortable with who you are. Unlike the quarter-life crisis, which is depicted as the collapse, The quarter life reinvention is the expansion and growth of something. When we develop the ability to be happy by ourselves, nobody else can take that from you. So this self-care September, don't just take care of yourself. Get to know yourself as well. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This question comes from Tanya, and I think Tanya might need a divorce. Oh, Lord. So she's... Don't come over here. You're the best. one at it. You've been divorced twice already. Am I good at it? Yeah, you're good at it. Better than the three. Out of the three of us, you're the best one. Well, Tanya says, dear Chelsea, I've been married since my 20s and I'm almost 50. I left my husband

two years ago due to his alcohol addiction issues and how he was treating me for years. He got sober and got therapy. We've been in joint therapy, but now he's refusing to do joint sessions. I moved back in the home a year ago, and this is exactly what I feared would happen. On top of that, I am in a breadwinner role. I know everyone grows at a different pace, but I don't see how I can keep hanging on. And she told me that he's not working at all. On top of that, he's dealing with health issues from the drinking, which makes me simultaneously feel bad for him and also resentful at funding a life for someone who treats me badly

when he's mad. When I drew a boundary six months ago that he needed to contribute, period, he started pulling money out of retirement and acting like it wasn't a big deal. He's also super sweet on a day-to-day basis, making meals and coffee, seemingly trying to me up for his lack of financial contribution. My question is, with a long-ass complicated history and inconsistent signals in the present, how do you know when it's time to be done? We're both Christian influenced, and I'm sure that's affecting the decision. My therapist is super neutral, but even she is starting to encourage me to just take care of me and protect my future.

Tanya. Are there kids involved? Hi, Tanya. Hi. Hi. No, my kids. Thank God, no kids. It's just keep dogs. Okay. And also let them know to, I know you're doing like a financial separation. So tell Chelsea about that and Porsche. Yeah. So basically because of his lack of financial contribution and like when I send him job listings for things like work down the street at the gas station. I don't care what you do.

You know, he's like, oh, that's beneath me. And it's been like three years of that. So I'm doing a financial separation to protect what's left of my retirement money. and to protect my future inheritance because the state that I'm in, if my parents were to pass right now, he would get half and he would continue to spend it like income. So I'm definitely doing the financial separation. But the emotional part, like of being treated badly during all this, I'm wondering if I need to just call it quits. But we've been together since I was 20 and now I'm 48 and it's like blowing up a whole integrated life, you know, even though there's no. kids, there is a lot of good. We have a ton of fun together. He grows flowers for me. He's, he's a good

person. He just, like, started having a really bad time when his business failed. And that makes me wonder if he did get a job and get himself on track, would he get back to being himself? And I don't want to be a fair weather wife. But also, like, I can't have this person screaming at me while I'm locking the guest room door telling him, I need peace. I need to sleep, you know? Right. Right. Can I ask a question? From you said 20, 30, you're now in your 40s. Yeah. You said y'all had been in therapy the entire time together, and then you also had therapy

on your own. I'm sure you have grown a lot within those years, right? And you've worked really hard to become who you are today, right? Mm-hmm. And you have put a lot of time and effort, a lot of prayer, into becoming the best person you can possibly be. So if 20-year-old you didn't deserve his abuse, 30-old you didn't deserve his abuse, the you now who have actually invested in yourself, in your spirituality, in who you have

become, you don't deserve that now either. And how many years are you going to take before you understand that your self-worth has risen? yesterday's price isn't today's price. So you don't have to pay that price when you were younger, you didn't know better. You know damn better now. You know that you are a grown-ass woman who has built a life that you would hope that he would have been a part of. But he has canceled himself out of it. He's probably not going to couples therapy anymore because he's probably not even doing his own therapy anymore.

So you would know that. So I think at this point, it's a matter of you choosing you and understanding that you are important. And yes, marriage is supposed to be forever. And yes, you can love him. And, you know, he can have the best intentions on being good to you and making flowers, etc. But you got to put you first at this point. And you have to understand that where the bleeding is happening is from you.

And so if you don't protect yourself right now, then he is going to unravel everything that you have done to become who you are today. And you look like a beautiful woman who is very confident. and I think that you'll look even better once you relieve yourself of what's bleeding you out. Interesting. I would say amen to that. Yeah. I think that was really well said and very astute.

Like I didn't even think of half of those things. I just am looking at the drain that this is causing you. I could see it behind your eyes. And that's all I need to know for that. You know, like he's draining you. and 48 is an exciting age. I just turned 50 a year ago and I'm fucking loving it. Like it has been a whole new chapter and I didn't get divorced.

So imagine what could happen if you were to actually get, like respect yourself in the way that Porsche is talking about. To really like you've done all this work and you spent all this time and you've invested. And this is the result. Yeah, he's out of a job. He's down on his luck. That doesn't mean you're a fair weather friend or a fair weather partner. or fair weather, you know, it just means that that's not what you signed up for. No, in certain weather, you don't need to weather.

Like, tornadoes kill. Everything's killed. Okay. Fucking, you can die with bad weather, too. You ain't gonna die for nobody. Yeah, like, you gotta have your back. Like, I don't like somebody taking money out of the retirement. I don't like that behavior.

That's shady shit. And if somebody's at a low point, while you can be sympathetic, you've already shown your sympathy. It's enough. You've endured like his emotional abuse. Yeah, it is abuse. That's not okay on any level. And would you accept that treatment for your sister or your daughter or your friend?

No. No. No. Any of my friends who told me this, I would be like, girl, you got to go. Your future is at stake and you've done everything you can. He's taking himself out of the equation with his behavior. Like I agree with you. I just, it's so hard because there's so much good.

If you were looking at a TV show, I remember when my mom told me this one time, she said, Portia, if you were looking at a movie, what would you be screaming at the screen to this character right now? You will be telling her, get out of there. You know, choose you. I did an interview earlier and I talked about you can reinvent yourself. You have identified yourself as the wife for so long and you have put that as priority. You are priority. okay you can re-imagined your life you can be a successful woman you can you can actually enjoy

your funds and have instead of having them stolen from you look at that character and understand you're the main character in your life you get one life experience don't let him take this from you especially like into your glory years sex is good in the 40s am i not sex is good in the 40s okay and in the 50s don't let anybody take this away from you this is your this is your golden moment. And it doesn't mean that you're abandoning him. You are just taking care of you first. You're putting the thing on you first. Then you can help him from afar. You can send him suggestions of financial people. You can send him to AA. You can even go to AA with him if you want. But let him do that on, let him do that on his own. I'm not saying it a divorce because I can never

say those words to anyone. But whatever that looks like for you, I think I think you've got your answer. And also, you know, him refusing to go to couples therapy is like, that's a, that's a deal breaker. No, no, if you're not willing to go to therapy, then there's no, there's nothing to talk about. Yeah. That's just a deal breaker. What are you fixing? Yeah. And not like looking for a job. Like, he's not a partner. He's being taken care of. Yes. And, you know, I know in our pre-interview call, you and I talked a little bit about how you find that you're always having to manage his moods and you feel like it's your responsibility. And that's something I would encourage you to, you know, in addition to therapy, maybe go to an Al-Anon meeting, which is for a family of people who are alcoholics,

so you can learn, like, how to sort of disengage from his behavior? Because you are not responsible for his moods. No, that's emotional abuse. It absolutely is. For you to scan him and you be responsible to scan him and find, you know, whether he's upset today to change, alter your mood or alter this, alter that. Girl, your nervous system is probably a wreck. Your nervous system is a wreck right now.

And going into premenopause or menopause to have a messed up system is very bad. Your cortisone levels is dangerous. I remember when I was going through my divorce, I went to the doctor, check all my levels. They said my cortisone levels were dangerously high. Oh, wow. Stress can kill you. So you're going to start messing with the quality of your life. So just think about that.

Yeah, I do. I really want you to just take care of yourself. Like, I'm just looking at you. you and like you have a very bright future if you make the right choices. So and and the whole thing about him being a good guy. I'm sure he is a really good guy. And you can still be in his life if he's willing to accept that. You know, you can still do all of those things. But that's, you're not here to carry the responsibility of somebody else. You're just not. You can choose to do that or you can choose to live your life to the fullest. You only get one life. Yeah. Yeah. And at the point where you have to

file for financial separation. You know, when you're married, you're becoming one. And I'm not saying the finances have to mesh. But I think that that's very powerful. Let's commend her first for doing that. That's a huge step. So we commend you for taking that step, but take another one. You're not done walking that.

And Portia might not tell you to get divorced, but Chelsea and I think we can. I would say get divorced. Yeah. I would. I would. But everyone knows that. Just based on a couple of the other things that you told me on our call, I would encourage you to look up, I believe it's hotline.org, but do some Googling around domestic violence because some of what you're going through does sort of qualify in that department. So I would just do a little digging into that. And there's a lot of gravity to your situation. And I want you to like see that. Like it's not okay what he's doing to you. And also one more thing before we go. We all have some characteristics of narcissists, right?

And we're not narcissists, but you can have some of the traits. He's probably a narcissist. Narcissistic abuse is one of the most deadly abuses that you can go through. I've survived it twice. And you need to also bring that up with your therapist so she can tell you the key components of what a narcissist is and put him in those frames. And then you identify it, you name it. Oh, wow, I was a victim of narcissists. narcissistic abuse. Then you can try to unravel yourself from it because there's a lot of things

that come with that. When you're leaving a narcissist, they'll send flying monkeys, his sisters, his mom. Everyone's going to try to call you. Everybody tried to get you back together. But it's textbook. So it's not just one of those buzzwords that just came out of nowhere. It's an actual psychological development thing, narcissism. So learn about it. It helped me to learn about it to be able to get away from it and also heal from it. That was for me and my healing process. is very powerful. So I would suggest that too. I've actually started to wonder about that.

And there's a podcast called Narcissist Apocalypse that I started to listen to here and there to try to figure out, like, is this really that broken? You know, like is him stopping therapy a sign, you know, that he's, because he keeps saying, but I'll be going back later. Right. But, you know, so how much of it is truth and how much of it is manipulation to just keep me around paying the bills. Not going to therapy is a part of him not taking accountability, Narcala. sisters don't like to take accountability. You know what I mean? And then there's people who apologize all the time.

I often fall real prey to apology. You tell me sorry. I'm like, okay. And my therapist recently said, but apology without change of action is where they lack the impact of that apology. So you're just saying I apologize. You're just one thing, right? But the reason I'm still being hurt over and over and over because the impact,

you're not actually changing that action. So there's nothing. underneath the apology, it's just surface level. And that's what he's been doing. The impact isn't there because the work isn't really being done and the change isn't really happening for you. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. And it meant a lot to me that like, Chelsea, I feel like I've known you my whole life, but almost, but like when you said you can see my exhaustion in my eyes and like we've never met, that that says a lot right there too. Yeah, like we, I just want every woman to know that you have options. I mean, you have your whole, you have your shit together. You have a life. And she's got a good group of girlfriends too. Great.

And you have like, you know, I don't know about this conversation you guys have before, but I mean, she wouldn't say that unless it was true, Catherine. Yeah. Like, unless she was concerned. And so, yeah, like all the, all the signs are pointing in the same direction. Okay. And just, you know, have faith in yourself and lean on your girlfriend. friends and have faith in yourself. And if you make this decision, it's just, you can't do it anymore.

There's no negotiating, no compromising. I just can't do this anymore. I can't do it anymore. So let's figure out a way, you know, and if he's not cooperative, then you just have to remove yourself, you know, from the situation and take steps to just create the next 20 years of your life so that you can have bliss and peace. Yes. That's all I want is peace. Like, I'm too old for this shit. Like, for some little set in that movie, you know? Yes. Yes.

Yeah. Okay, Tanya, will you keep us posted? Yes. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Of course. Of course, yes. Call us anytime.

All right. Good luck, Tanya. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Well, Portia, you really fucking not just out of the fucking park. It's in my wheelhouse. That must have been the best, that might have been the best advice anybody's ever given on this podcast.

Really? That was amazing. Wow. was like, holy shit, you're going to have to come back. I will come back. You're going to have to be a recurring situation. Yeah, we need you. Really?

I always said, I said, I want to be a person. I'm like that for my friends, though. They come to me and they ask me for advice. And I can give advice, but I don't take it all the time. Yeah, well, none of us do. But I get right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was really good.

I was really blown away. Wow. Thank you. I hope she, I hope, and I hope she receives it. She will. She may have to hear it a couple times. Yeah, yeah. Some of the things we said is going to align with her girlfriends or her therapist is going to sound the same and then it's going to hit her and she's going to fucking make a move.

Yeah. I think she just needed that extra little push. Yep. Yeah. Well, she heard it from Chelsea. That's right. That's right. She was like, I've told you a million times and you wait until this person tells you.

She's like, everybody's been telling her now. You're saying that she's going to change. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here today. I love being here. What fun. I loved it. I loved it, too.

You're a delight. You're so fun. Thank you. This was a great conversation. It was like everywhere. All over the house. If you want advice from Chelsea, write in to Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail.com. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartMedia. Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find Catherine on TikTok at Flashcadabra. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law.

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