Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Bad Mormon with Heather Gay

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

Real Housewives of Salt Lake City star Heather Gay joins Chelsea to discuss the ins-and-outs of Mormonism (and leaving it), why she’s glad her husband left, and what it feels like to be disconnected from family.  Then: A pre-teen’s parent struggles with her daughter’s body image issues. A brand-new mom shares a house (and baby duties) with her cheating soon-to-be-ex-husband. And a small-town gal just wants to get laid. * Bad Mormon by Heather Gay Letting Go: The Pathway of Surrender * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi. Hi, everybody. Hi, Catherine. Oh, hi, Chelsea. Hi. What's going on? It's May. We're deep in the throes of A.

This year is going by very quickly. So fast. Yes, what's happening? I don't like it. It just like rained for several months and then all of a sudden it's summer. Yes, yes. It's summertime is coming and that means my family is coming. Ooh, who's visiting?

Everybody? Well, we're not visiting. No, no, no, no, no. No one's visiting. I actually am homeless in June. I become homeless. Oh, no. June, July, and August.

Yes, my house is not ready until August. And I decided to give up my rental because it just makes no sense that I've been in this rental and I'm home twice a week. Yeah. So I take a couple months off of touring, and I'm just going to bounce around Europe and Africa. Oh, fantastic. That's a great place. Those are a couple great places to be homeless.

I'm taking all my nieces to Africa. Can't wait. That's going to be amazing. Have they been before? No, none of them have been. Only my sissy and I have been to Africa, and we're going back together. I love that. She's like, you're going to be really sick of me, which is code for she's going to be sick of me and my fucking mood swings.

But we have two weeks together, and then we have one week of just a romantic couple. In the villa, right? Yeah. And then I have three weddings. I have Ben Bruno's wedding. I have my cousin Ted, his wedding. And then I have someone else's wedding. I'm a groomsman at Ben Bruno's wedding.

So that's a lot of responsibility. But that's the only thing I'm flying back for. So I'll be in the States for a weekend for Ben Bruno's wedding. Just like jet lagged AF and then leaving again? No, I think when I fuck around that quickly, it doesn't have time to catch up. You know what I mean? If I go in and out real quick of time zones, then it doesn't matter. Then it's like, fine.

No, no. Well, I am abandoning my husband to go to Mexico for a week with a couple of my girlfriends. Nice. I know. I'm very excited. For a whole week? For about like five days. Yeah.

Like four nights, five days. Yeah. We've got like a little spot that we love to go. And me and the same two girlfriends have gone like the last few years. Nice. And it's awesome. Nice. Very nice.

So he has three pugs to take care of all by himself. Love you. Well, they'll probably be perfectly trained by the time you get home. Of course they will. Oh, they'll be seven whole months old. Well, hey, Chelsea, just like you and your sister, she's looking to become a midlife lesbian. Oh, is she?

Oh, wow. Well, that must be a reflection of your performance, Brad. Well, I do try. Well, not hard enough, I guess. Well. Whoopsie doodle. Well, on that note, should we intro our guest for today? I am so excited.

Oh, yes. We have a reformed Mormon on. My favorite topic of conversation, Mormonism. Yes. And you know what? I'm not a big Housewives fan, but the real Housewives of Salt Lake City is the only one that I actually watch. And Heather is my favorite. I think she's great. Well, Sheikha, I'm just going to say for the record, I don't watch the Housewives. I've never seen the Housewives.

I saw one episode once as a favor to my assistant to try and figure out what she's interested in. And then I decided I'm not interested. Anyway, so I just want to make that disclaimer because I don't want to pretend that I've seen a show that I haven't seen. even though that's probably polite for the guest. Our guest is a housewife and she's currently starring in The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip, Thailand. And she recently opened the second location of Beauty Lab and Laser in Utah. And she is a New York Times bestselling author of Bad Mormon, owner of Beauty Lab and Laser and star of Bravo's Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Heather Gay. Hi, Heather. Hi, I'm so nervous. Oh, don't be. Don't be. We're gonna have fun.

I just hit the inhaler. Oh, I need a hit of an inhaler. Do you have another one? Fuck, I should have brought my inhaler. Let's see, Chelsea's inhalers have a little more THC in them. I just, yeah, exactly. I just was pulling out the things that are in my purse that my housekeeper packs me up with every day

because I'm like a little baby going off to school every time I leave the house. And she has like little stones, crystals, gummies with THC. And then a little heart stone that says strength. And she's like, this is so funny. I go, I know. But what I'm missing is a fucking inhaler It's like a diaper bag

A diaper bag, exactly You need an inhaler and then like a quiet book And some Cheerios and that's like You can run it Exactly, alright Heather, there's no reason to be nervous What are you nervous about? Are you nervous about talking? Or are you nervous about the questions I'm going to ask? I'm just nervous because I'm excited

You know, I'm like, this is a big Big moment for me, Chelsea Handler You know, I'm trying to like not be too effusive And just be cool, just be cool That's my mantra. Just be fucking cool. Be cool. Be cool.

Yeah. Great. That's a great start. We're all set. Yes. So, Heather, I read your book. We both read your book about leaving Mormonism. And I speak for both Catherine and myself when I say we are fascinated by Mormons.

And Chelsea has a family connection. I do have a family connection because my sister was a Mormon for a while. And then I think she slowly stepped out of it. She hasn't brought it up in years. So we just pretend that it's over. Right. And I mention it. But my mom was Mormon and she was from Germany, actually.

And she grew up Mormon, which is interesting. And then they came over to the United States. So I know a little bit about Mormonism. Well, I guess I probably know more than the average person because I lived with her. And we had, you know, the church at our house all the time. And what I do find very amusing, though, in modern times, in today's times, is that what Mormon people do to avoid having sex that actually is sex. Right. Like, what is it called?

I've done these things. Soaking. Hot dogging. Arm pitting. All the things. And it's like, hey, guys, that's fucking. Just so you know, you're still having sex. Any hole but the holy hole.

That's the mantra. Yeah, yeah. I hate when religion tells you not to have sex. Religion is the root of all evil as well. Okay, so tell us about your departure because it happened probably as a result of you being on The Housewives, right, of Salt Lake? Yeah. I mean, going on house was for sure, like rip the bandaid off. It'd been kind of a slow bleed, but with like the church, you just don't leave when you're

surrounded by it and it's your family and it's everybody. You just don't talk about it. If you're not living it, you do it quietly and silently, you know, behind the closed doors, but you tow the line and you play the game. And I had been doing that for years. And then, but I knew that if I went on reality television, I had to own it one way or the other, either had to become a devout Mormon again, which was out of the cards and probably would take like a huge disciplinary process through the church for that to happen. Or I had

to just stop right there. What kind of disciplinary processes are there? Okay. Well, every, you meet with your local leaders regularly. So like you meet with them quarterly or anytime that you get a new assignment or anytime there's a shakeup, like with leadership and they are men in your neighborhood that you go to church with weekly. So they're not kind of, they're not like guys, you can pull the wool over their eyes. It's men that like, know if you're showing up to church, they know you're in the community they know if you're wearing immodest clothing and they know if you're messing around they know you you know they're your neighbors and your friends and they are also your leaders and they're in charge of you so you have to answer very specific a list of

questions every time you meet with them in order to like get a calling or go to the temple and have your temple license which we call a temple recommend renewed and it's a digitized just like a driver's license you go to the temple they scan it if it beeps you get to go in if it doesn't you are on, you're out on the street, you're on probation. So if you answer those questions wrong, then there's a disciplinary process and they decide how bad it was. If you messed up, like if you said, I drank a beer, you could probably just handle it with your Bishop locally right there. But if you had an affair, if you had sex, if you associated with any anti-Mormon group, if you weren't wearing your garments day and night, then they would kick it up to a regional

leader and that regional leader would determine if the sins were merited a disciplinary council which is a group of 12 men from the surrounding area called area authorities and they're your friends husbands like it's not just a it's not just a panel it's like the people that you go to church with that you see it's the principal it's like the entire community like the doctor the baker the candlestick maker they're all just kind of like handmaid's tale they're all sitting around a table in white shirts, ties, and suits, and you sit there and you tell them all of your sins. You tell them how many times you've had sex with the person or drank or, you know, stepped out. Anytime you've broken the rules, they make you detail. It's kind of like a venting of an

airing of sin. It's kind of like Scientology. Yeah. Like an audit, I guess it would be similar to like an audit. And then they determine, they meet, they send you out and then they determine your punishment. And it can be excommunication. It can be probation. It can be called disfellowship. And disfellowship means you can't take the sacrament. You can't say public prayers. You can't teach lessons, but you still have not lost your baptismal covenants. If you're excommunicated, you have to get rebaptized. You have to go through the missionary discussions. You have to pretend like you're a virgin in the Mormon church. Wow. And I think it's so interesting, too, that you say like a panel of men, because it is men. It's not a jury of your peers,

including women and other people. It is just men who are the leaders of the Mormon church. Just men. I mean, really, religion is the beginning of patriarchy. Yeah, absolutely. It really was, because before that, we were a matriarchal society, and it became patriarchal because of religion. So when you left, your mother's still part of the church, right? Yeah, my whole family, except for two siblings, are all active, devout members that have never acknowledged the book, have not sent a text, not sent a note, not mentioned it at Christmas dinner. nothing. It's like, it doesn't exist. The show existed for the first few months. Like they would

talk about it because it was kind of titillating and fun and might be innocuous. But then once I wasn't speaking well of the church, once I was drinking on camera, you know, swearing, doing all the things, then they acted like they just turned the television off and it doesn't exist either. Denial is also part of religion is complete denial of reality or things that don't, you know, vibe with what you're, what you're putting out there. Totally. We were just talking about this, like how you're going on Real Housewives sort of was at the same time as you were starting to leave the church or have these sort of epiphanies of like, maybe this isn't for me. And that your bishop, when you asked him if you should go on the show, actually said like,

yes, but take a glass of milk anytime you're at a party with alcohol. So you're presenting the appearance of not drinking. Like the facade is something that I find so interesting in what you talk about well we believe it's like a codependence like we have a responsibility to not only share the gospel and convert everyone in our circle but to represent for like anyone in around us we don't speak or dwell on sin we don't talk about it like when i got my reckless driving he's like don't speak of it this is not part you know just stamp it out forget it ever happened and you think that that would be like that would cultivate a culture of positivity but it's really just a culture of shame and secrecy. Also, we're supposed to be the happiest people on earth. So it's a big,

you know, there's a conflict there. There's an edge. Is that what Mormons think they are, the happiest people on earth? Well, we believe that the plan, the Mormon plan is the plan of happiness and that men are that they might have joy. You know, that is, and your righteousness is absolutely, you know, how Jewish people can be like upset and Jewish. And it's like, they can still be devout Jews. Mormons, if you don't have a smile on your face, you must not be righteous. You must not be blessed. You must not love the Lord because we believe that like our choices dictate our blessings and happy people are blessed. You know, that's a sign of how blessed you are is how happy you are. So we're fronting not only just to

ourselves, but to our community because it's status. The happier you are, the higher your status. And do they care about money and wealth and all of that individually? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're, I think we're tempered, well-meaning, like frugal people, like we're resourceful. And I don't think like I'm a spendthrift, but like we believe like the only people that get the high leadership kinds are the extremely wealthy in the church because they have to have discretionary time and income because they devote, you know, 30 hours a week to shepherding the community as, you know, lay leaders in the church. So you can't you can't have a 50 hour a week job and also be a bishop, you know. And you're also the only religion. Well,

maybe not the only religion. I think there's some Middle Eastern religions that also adhere to this, but that you have living prophets, like men are just named to be or deemed a prophet while they're alive, which is such a crock of shit. I mean, if you want me to believe in prophets, then they at least have to be dead. It's true. It's the true and living prophet. We believe he's the voice of God on the earth. And he has 12 apostles that meet with him and they do a conference semi-annually and we all listen to it. It's hours long. And at the last conference, they denounced transgender, they denounced diversity, they denounced same-sex marriage, they denounced everything. But at the same time, they're still trying to like...

I thought the Church of Latter-day Saints had put out a statement saying they accepted gay people into the church. They don't condone it, but they accept them. No? As long as you don't act on it, you cannot break the law of chastity, which means you cannot kiss, but you can't do anything about it. You can't kiss, hug, or touch same-sex. And the only people into heaven are cisgender, heteronormative, heterosexual marriages. But if you're gay and you put your penis in another woman's vagina, but you don't move it back and forth, that's okay, right? You'll be heralded in heaven if you're gay and you put it in a vagina and you do move it back and forth and you have children and you toe the line and you raise a family up unto God and you

deny your sinful feelings of homosexuality is how we would look at it. Right. So just be a totally different person and you'll be fine. And then when you get to heaven, God will fix you. And that's what I would tell my kids, you know, like, it wasn't really that I like believed this whole heartedly. It's just what I lived. It was my neighbors. It was their friends. It was what I did, you know, 20 hours a week. It was just my entire world. But as soon as I had to answer a hard question, we would just say, God will figure it out. Don't worry about it. You know, it'll never happen to us. And then you get divorced or then you get a DUI or whatever happens if it's happening to you and your kids are growing up and you have to face them and you have to face yourself. And if you go on TV, you have to face the TV audience. So there were some hard stops that forced me to just to do this, to kind of leave openly and leave loudly. I wouldn't say proudly, but loudly. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. I'm behind you. A hundred percent, as they say. I'll say one hundred and seventy five percent.

No one's saying that. That's good. Raise the stakes. You're welcome. So this is a local question. I was just reading the paper over the weekend. about Salt Lake, the Lake of Salt Lake, the Great Salt Lake and how it's, how it's deteriorated. And it's basically a quarter of the size it was even 20 years ago. I have a question. Do you know if this crazy snowfall that you guys got and around Salt Lake City is going to change the size of that lake? Mormons have been praying for moisture every single prayer in church and

constantly. And so, cause we've been seeing the Great Salt Lake dry up and it's a sign of the end of days, last coming and, or global warming, you know, we've taken over the just let. And I mean, it was snowing this morning. It was a blizzard this morning. So I'm hoping, but you know, I don't care much about the moisture and the great salt Lake. I should, but I'm just not deeply invested. It smells. I know. Well, I just don't want to deal with what's happening in this world right now. It is so scary. And, oh, anyway, sorry, I digress. So I want to talk about your relationship with your mom. So your mom, are you, she's not talking to you because you left the church, right? Yeah. I mean, in a nutshell, yeah. Like I saw her at Christmas. We didn't even

exchange Christmas greetings barely. I gave her like a stiff hug and then everybody just ignored me and said, how are you keeping busy? And what are you going to do when your youngest graduates from high school? And I thought, live my life. Like, I mean, they just don't, it's just this really weird, strained thing that I feel like, why am I here? Like, why am I like pandering to these people and acting like they are interested in anything I'm doing when they're totally making me feel crazy? And why are you there? So your children have a relationship with your family or because you really do? I mean, I'm sure you still would like a relationship, but. I mean, I've thought a lot about that because Christmas was a little bit more intense. The

book was coming out in February. It was right there. All the press was hitting and I thought about it. And I think that one, I don't want to be one of those weird people that their family hates them. You know, it just seems like it's like this sign that you're troubled. So I think there's part of that, that, that like wants that validity or reassurance, but also for my kids, I feel bad. And also I grew up with tons of cousins and I grew up with this like multi-generational family feeling Sundays where everyone getting together and Christmas Eve, like all of my friends are with their 10 siblings and all their kids. And I just, you know I want that for them and I feel like I have to create that so I I you know chase after

it but it doesn't exist for me here it's really me and my kids and that's it you know another interesting thing the main thing that breaks up families is religion because gay people get separated from their families when they're religious I mean isn't that so ironic when you think about it because even people still talk to their siblings when they murder someone and their kids and their fathers. But if you're not religious and I'm religious, then it's over. Yeah. I mean, my siblings won't extend like readings of love, but they've all like made sure they did disparaging reviews of the book. You know, don't read it, read the book of Mormon instead. They feel like it's supporting me or supporting God. And if you're up against God

and someone's devotion to God, you're never going to win. You know, I'm never, they're never going to pick me over their martyrdom. And it's just, it's feels like an endless battle. Like I keep saying, maybe my next book will be bad love, how to escape toxic families, because I don't want to have to go after them anymore and, and prove myself or accept them or understand them or explain it. I just don't want to feel that sadness anymore. Yeah. And how did your kids handle all the separation from the church and everything? Well, they were like wary at first, but then when they realized, well, I think my college daughter, when she realized it, she could go to college and drink and be a true sorority girl. She's living her best life. She's 19 at UC Santa Barbara and

I'm living vicariously through her. You know, I just, it feels like a second life for me to watch her just party. And when I went to parents weekend, she like came out in this bra thing and she's like, it's lingerie. I turned into a shirt, you know? And when I was at college, I had to have cap sleeves. I wasn't allowed to wear anything that didn't touch my knees or I'd get reported to the honor code office, you know, like it's just to see her like be kind of sex positive and free and party. And she suggested a drink to me and I was just like, whoa, you know, I just didn't grow up like that. And it, it makes me feel like I broke the chain a little bit and my younger two are into it too. Yeah. That must feel good for you, for your kids. It's a real mama bear move,

breaking that kind of cycle, you know, anything so restrictive, I just feel like is such an inhibitor to a person's development. Yeah. And I think it's, it's what you said about the patriarchy too. I mean, I had three daughters and it's like, I've been, I've raised them alone and I've never, I've never needed their dad. I feel bad saying that, you know, but like I've done it on my own and I, for them, it's more like that no restrictions they can become and be whatever they want. And I think that it really was healing for them to see their mom do this and not have to, you know, we decorate the house how we want. We don't ask for money for the movies. Like we, are a matriarchal little society. And that makes me fucking proud. I like it. How's your relationship

with your ex-husband? Well, I'm assuming you guys don't talk that much, but. Yeah, we don't talk that much. He's Mormon, right? Yeah, he's Mormon. He, he like started doing spiritual thoughts with the girls when he'd see them and trying to make sure that he could like countermand any negative influence I was giving him. But he's just not a big influence in our life. You know, he, he left and we just have been on our own since the girls were little, you know, he left in 2011. Aren't you so glad he left? I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I'm so glad. I would have, I would have been one of those martyred moms, just resentful, probably. I don't know what I would have done, but I wouldn't have been the

mom I wanted to be to my kids. Cause I would be trying to raise them so that he thought I was a good wife, you know, and not raising them just to be these like spirit animals, whatever they want to be. And that feels like the most freeing, honestly. Yeah. Because whenever I read or hear about a breakup, because, you know, when you're in the thick of it, obviously it doesn't feel good and you can't see the forest for the trees. But whenever I read or hear about it or I'm talking to someone, I'm like, I just want I want you to just have 30 seconds of a window into your life in six months and you're going

to say thank you. Like, it's always, always OK. Everyone survives breakups over and over again. there is a period of time where you think it's unsurvivable and then you move into the next phase and then you get to a phase where you're like well thank god somebody ended that so I didn't have to it's absolutely true I think we need to change the narrative around it like change the narrative that women need a man to be complete or satisfied and change the narrative that divorce is the scarlet letter and the mark of failure like have a man in college have a man in to have kids with

then raise them with somebody else and retire somebody else or just be single your whole life I will never remarry. I don't want my daughters to necessarily even put it on their vision board. But I grew up with hope chests and baby names. And my dad said, I'll pay you $100 for every baby you name off the sealed envelope. It's just this weird concept of everything I was raised to do was just to be a wife and mother. So I had to reframe all of that when it fell apart. And all of that was steeped in religion, religion and the patriarchy. And also instead of calling it a break up. We should just call it getting back together with ourselves. Yes. Yes. Like I'm going back to me. I'm coming back for you, baby. I'm coming back for you. Circling back and then I'll

branch out later down the road. What's what's happening with your love life these days, Heather? Just like absolutely nothing. I mean, come on. I just for a while I was like kind of hoping that like the celebrity and stuff would like get me laid and it would just have like No, it's worse. It's harder to get laid when you're a celebrity. Yeah. And I just think guys don't really like strong, funny women. I just think they don't, honestly. It's just not attractive to them. No, it's not. It's not attractive because that's what they're supposed to provide. So if you're providing the same thing, they don't need it. They're like, well, wait, I'm the strong one. Yeah. Why are you here? Yeah.

They may think they like it, but when it's put into practice, it's a much different endeavor. Although that's not to say all men, obviously there are men out there that can handle a strong woman. I've met them and I've dated some. Most of the ones I've dated though have been brief. Maybe I wasn't able to recognize it, but it does sometimes just show its head for a couple of months. You know what I mean? Yeah. But you should be on some, I hope you're on some sites or something. I haven't gone online. I think I'm still kind of steeped in this shame of like the spinster woman that's like trying to find a man. Like, I don't know. Like, I feel like when I got divorced and I had kids, it was over. Like I had to just now be this mom, but now I'm at this

phase where I'm feeling myself a little bit. I want to get out there, but I'm not online. And I also tend to just date like really young, dumb guys that are just in it for the fun, you know, and that's just feels like treading water. And it makes me feel validated and like I'm not dried up or I'm still active out there. But it's just it also feels a little bit just like spinning your wheels. I don't know if I'm comfortable enough in my new identity to like be with the person without it. It's still new. Yeah, it's still new. And there's no rush. I mean, I take so much time to myself after every relationship just to get back together with myself. Like I said, like I'm like, all right, I know I'm not going to be single forever.

You're not going to be single forever. There's going to be dalliances and there's going to be relationships. That's just the nature of life and being a person that's outgoing enough to be on television. Like, yes, it's harder to meet people, I think, when you're a celebrity because it's just an awkward kind of mix. You know what I mean? It's strange. Like I go through my DMs and when guys are like hitting on me or whatever, I'll take a look at their profile. But if it's a private account, I'm not going to follow you to find out if you look like I'm not that desperate.

You know what I mean? I'm like, I'm going to look. Oh, OK, because you can look through a whole Instagram page and get a good idea of what kind of person you're dealing with. And I'm not opposed to hanging, hooking up with a stranger on the road that hits me up. I'm down. I just have to be down, too. I have to make sure that you're, like, normal and smart and not, you know, not an idiot and you don't have, like, you know, spiky jewelry or something. Like a samurai sword above your bed. Really, any jewelry is a non-starter for me on a man. I don't want to see anything.

But anyway, okay, well, we're happy that you're here today. We're happy that you're, A, free of the church, free of marriage, and feeling yourself. because that is the best combination that you could hope for is to be able to, well, not combination, the best tenant, I think, for anybody is to be feeling yourself. And I'm sure that it took you a long time to feel this good. Oh, for sure. I mean, it's like within the last few weeks, it's really ever since I hit the bestseller list, that's really when it clicked in.

No arguing with that. Congratulations on that. Thank you. Thank you. As we said before, the book is called Bad Mormon in case you missed it. So make sure you pick up a copy so we can keep Heather on the New York Times list. Yes, please. Okay, so, Catherine, what do you have in store for us today?

Oh, some good stuff. I am going to need your help getting one of our collars laid, ladies. Okay, great coming from two people who have no sex in the world. We've got some mom stuff, and we've got an ex-Mormon divorce thing going on. So we'll take a quick break, and we'll be right back with Heather and Chelsea. The Jonas Brothers are running it back. We live the Burning Up Tour and celebrate the biggest Jonas Brother hits that have defined a generation. One incredible celebration.

One unforgettable night. See the Jonas Brothers live at RBC Amphitheater, September 28th. Get tickets now at Ticketmaster.ca. Jonas Brothers, the Burning Up Tour, all over again. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying,

Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters,

then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita,

we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita,

trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself.

So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We're back. Hi. Hi. Hi, Heather, Chelsea, and Catherine. It's Chelsea.

It's great to be back. well our first email comes from cara cara says dear chelsea i'm the mother of three girls ages eight five and two my oldest who will turn nine in september was just diagnosed with central precocious puberty syndrome and i am struggling so basically what that means is like she's just going through puberty super early she's already taller than most of the other kids in her class and has started to develop breasts and other signs of puberty we're a really open house and we talk about body parts and periods and all of that, but what I'm struggling with is teaching her body empowerment and pride. She's absolutely gorgeous, but feels out of place compared to the

other girls in her class. We're also at the stage where when we try to talk about things, she gets embarrassed and either shuts down completely or, hello hormones, lashes out and yells, which she then feels terrible about later. She's the only one in her class who has to wear a bra, and some of the other kids have noticed and asked why. I come from a long line of body shamers and struggle with my own self-image, so I try not to say things about my weight or my looks in front of my daughters, unless I'm saying how absolutely bangin' an outfit is that day. But yet, I still feel like I'm failing. She will only wear oversized t-shirts to school now, even though she has a whole closet full of clothes she picked out, but has now decided she's, quote, too big for, and

will say things like, I miss wearing that outfit. Mornings are rough, because getting everyone out the door and the outfit picking can lead to big emotions. I just want her to feel comfortable and confident in her skin. Any suggestions? Thanks so much, Kara. You've raised three girls. Yeah, you go first, Heather. You're the mother here. I mean, yeah, listen, get a prescription for Xanax, get some therapy. It's going to be a rough road. I mean, this is, you know, it's like it doesn't change. Like you can't teach body impact. You can set a good example. You can create a safe space where they don't have to worry about it. You can pull them from school if it's horrible, because it's just like, just be intuitive to what your kid needs and what helps me

when I, cause I try to control and fix and I'm great at presenting, you know, like I want them to like, well, you know, don't wear oversized. It makes you look boxy. Like I know all this shit because I grew up with it. Right. But I'm so over it. And I'm so sick of trying to like overcompensate for what I look like and trying to read the room and see who's safe and who's likes people that don't have good bodies or, you know what I mean? But at eight, man, that's way too early to even deal with it. So I would just say, try to remember who you were when you were eight, not what your body looked like or not how people treated you, but who you were inside. And then talk to your daughter. Like you would wish somebody had talked to you when

you're eight you know well she actually she's nine right well almost nine oh okay yeah almost nine okay so well heather thank you for listening then i would also add in i think the most powerful thing you can do with a little girl is let her do whatever the fuck she wants clothing wise whatever she wants obviously she can't dress in a negligee when she's six but i think however kids feel the most comfortable that they're gonna feel is the most important because comfort is paramount to everything and if she wants to wear big baggy clothes for the next two years let her that's better than the alternative you know what I mean or the opposite end of the spectrum because kids have to be confident in who they are that is the number one thing that amounts to a

decent sense of self-esteem and a sense of self like you have to know your personality and be able to move in the direction that you feel and your parents are there to guide you not to stop you. You know, you have to guide children in the right direction. Obviously, if they're endangering themselves, that is a separate issue. But as far as expressing themselves through clothing or feeling comfortable in their clothing, I think that anything goes and just be there to be a guide and a support system for this incremental period of time that will be over when all the other girls at school get boobs in two years. Yeah. I was thinking what you said earlier, like it gets better it'll change it's just it's just one year of school and like if we look back on our lives

I remember maybe one thing from second grade or one thing from third grade you know what I mean like just focus on the good and the fun and just kind of barrel through the bad as the parent just know that it'll be one year because kids don't understand one year when you're nine you've only had nine year eight years so you're like a year sounds like an eternity also another quick story is I used to, when I got my boobs, I got them really young when I was 12 at the time. Now it's getting even younger, but I taped them down because I was so embarrassed because they were big right away. They came in overnight. And I remember my mom, I taped a lot of things down at different times in my life. And my mom saw me do it. I did it with my thighs once to make my thighs smaller.

And she kind of said, you can't do that again. But when she saw it do it with my boobs, she just went, oh honey. And she didn't say another word about it. I was embarrassed that she caught me because we didn't have an open dialogue about that stuff. Like I was kind of private about it. But after she caught me, I was like, oh, I started doing it in front of her and she never said anything about it. And I didn't do it for very long

because it wasn't long before everyone else had boobs too. And then I was like, oh, okay. All right, we're all together here. That's smart. One thing too that might be helpful is doing a little closet purge. Like make it a fun thing, take a Saturday and go through and be like, you know what?

We're going to go on a shopping trip, find some stuff that you like better than what you have now. So let's go through the closet and just do a little closet purge in anticipation of buying her a few things that, you know, she's going to love. But I think it's, you know, wearing oversized T-shirts is a very significant part of, you know what I mean? Oh, my nieces, that's all they're worth. It's like that's what you do at a certain age and it's usually when you're developing. Now I see girls that are really young and that want to show off their bodies. I'm like, oh, wow, look at you. they seem too young to be doing that but i'm like what the fuck do i know like what

can't you know let them do whatever like makes them happy and confident confident it's tricky with women because we want to say like you're not your body you're your personality but that's a lie beauty is currency for women and we have to fight it and like overcome it every single day and it sucks you know but it's it's hard to be honest with your kids you know yeah Waking up every morning having to overcome my own beauty is exhausting and taxing. I look at myself and I'm like, oh, my God, girl. It's tricky. You better stay in today if you don't want to see any car accidents.

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Concerned about your gambling or that of someone close to you? Visit connectsontario.ca. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them I'm Elizabeth Smart and these are the Survivor Files I just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything Every week I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable I knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me

I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks

Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages.

On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it.

It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, what do we have next? Okay, well, our next question, this is a caller who's going to be joining us, and her name is Meg. She says, Dear Chelsea, thank you so much for being my inspiration for what a socially conscious, independent, and hilarious woman can and should be. I'm hoping to channel some of your power as I overcome my life's biggest hurdle so far. My husband and I married at 18 and 22, respectively.

We've been married almost 13 years and have a 14-month-old son to care for. Unfortunately, I left the Mormon church at 25, and my husband followed me out three years later. It's now been three years of us being together as post-Mormon people and three challenging years of couples therapy after he had an affair in his initial panic over his departure from the church. Now he's saying he feels claustrophobic and can't recover from the religious trauma he endured while in our marriage. He says he still loves me, but that he needs us to separate to find himself. I respect that he's been through a lot. He was raised in the church while I was a convert, so it wasn't as traumatic for me. How do I learn to set boundaries with the only

person I've lived with for 13 years? We're stuck living together for at least the next few months when our lease ends, and then what? I backburnered my career for 12 years while he became an MD. I've never been a single adult, and I'm 31. I'm excited for the possibilities that lie ahead after his pain subsides, but feeling lost in the soup of all this change.

Please help me find my power. I'm done feeling like a victim. I just don't know how to start belonging to myself after all this time. With love and gratitude, Meg. Hi, Meg. Hi, Meg. Hi.

Look at how cute you are. I know. Meg, Meg, you got nothing to worry about. You better get ready for the time of your life, girl. Poor phase begins now. Oh, my God. You have your whole world in front of you. Yes.

Yeah. You're going to be okay. You're going to be great. You're going to be better than great. Wow, done. Give yourself the same freedom he wants because you deserve it just as much. And you will love it. And just make sure he takes the baby half the time so that you get the same break.

I feel like there should be commercials for divorce because there are so many upsides to divorce. A, you get your kids 50% of the time, which sounds crazy to people when you have babies because mothers can't be apart from them. But do you understand how much freedom that is going to bring to your life? When you have a responsible 50% 50-50 divorce with your spouse, you get to explore a whole other world. And that world is of someone without children. Obviously, you're never without your children when you're a parent, but like you're going to be able to operate, go on trips with girls, go, you know, do whatever you want in your free time, date. And I also want to just say, like, I think you have a great opportunity. You have so many opportunities, but you have a great opportunity during this transition out of your marriage to really cement a great friendship with your ex-husband soon to be.

you have a chance right now to show up in a way that you're going to admire yourself if you do it the right way later you're going to you're going to admire yourself for acting with grace and acting with dignity understanding that this is okay that he's going to go and you know he needs to be by himself that's great because you're going to be by yourself too and that's also great and use this time to separate with dignity and love so that you can maintain this really healthy friendship with appropriate boundaries for you for the rest of your lives that you guys have to deal with each other with your children, you know? Amen. I agree. And so when you're talking about boundaries right now, this is a great time for you to set up boundaries and boundaries don't have to be

about what you need. They have to be about what both people want. Like he's allowed to say what he wants as well. And you're allowed to say what you want. And then you compromise and meet somewhere in the middle. And it's a great pathway to divorce, like, which is where it sounds like you guys are headed. So like all of this lead time, Heather didn't have any lead time when her husband left her. He just sent her a letter and like sent her divorce papers. A lot of divorcees or divorced men don't get lead time. So like, that's a huge gift right there. You know what I mean? To phase out of a marriage because once your head is there, like it's, it's going to follow its suit. You know what I mean? This like three months or six months or however long you stay

together until the marriage is over. But what did you mean when you referenced boundaries in your letter? I think it's hard. We live in a very small house and we are taking care of a very young child. So there is a lot of being together overlap. Our social networks were pretty codependent. So we have a lot of like my best friend is the wife of his best friend. So there's still overlapping events but and I think honestly just hearing everything you just said is amazing because it feels good now that we've sort of let each other go but it's also been my whole adult life and all of these changes and it just I mean my mom overheard me talking to him on the phone yesterday coordinating things for the baby and she was like you guys are so nice to each other

And I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't think it's good for me to be mean or to make anyone wrong or right. So I, but I want to have healthy boundaries, but sometimes there are voices that are sometimes like you deserve blah, blah, blah. You should be telling him blah, blah, blah. You should be, you know, like put your foot down with blah, blah, blah. And it's like, not always helpful advice. No, you don't want to, you're not trying to like get anything out of him.

You have to treat him with the same grace and respect that you want. You guys have the perfect scenario. Like you were both like married so young, you're 18, you know, you're a baby. Like, I think that sometimes we think we're supposed to have heartbreak in order to justify the love or make the love, this great love affair, the heartbreak has to be equal to it. And then this situation, I feel like you can transition out with love and respect and a plan and like not feel betrayal or heartbroken.

Just be like, I'm so glad I had you for this tumultuous time and to create this baby. and now I want to support you by you discover who you are and I'm going to discover who I am and I'm going to become financially independent. And then as soon as I am financially independent and have my own identity and self-actualization, maybe you'll fall back in love with him when your child's 15, maybe when he's 10, you know, it's, but you need to be financially independent and emotionally independent and you have the capabilities to do it just because he defined you from 18 on doesn't mean he has any bearing on who you might be for the next 15 years. Yeah. And what your example with your friendship, you know, the two best friends you guys both have that are married, like that's a great place to start to be like, okay, hey, listen, I know I'm best friend. Like, I don't want that to change. Like, I would love in an ideal world, like paint the picture of how you would like your relationship to proceed past this point.

I mean, during the time that you're living together, of course, you know, whatever you need, you don't want to be disrespected or devalued in any way. But other than that, that's a great way to just set up some boundaries. I mean, what boundaries do you want? Let's talk about a couple. I'm mainly concerned. Like I feel like very, I've been reading my Let It Go. Thank you, Chelsea. It's been super helpful. And I have been finding my spirituality again, because for a long time, Heather, I'm sure you can relate to this. It was just like no religion, no spirituality, like get away from me with your dogma.

But I feel like this has broken me open to a place where I can be open to other versions of spirituality that work for me. and I have essentially felt a lot of ownership over this man because of our relationship and I've invested in his career and everything. And so I'm afraid that those attachments are going to get really mad when I see him dating other women. Um, when I have to come face to face with him, having a relationship with somebody else, having no control over who he dates. And I mean, what if now he's a doctor, he's an MD, you supported him through school. Now he's going to take his new girlfriend to Hawaii. He's rich. And I'm just like, my ego's mad. Like I put in

all of the work and it's to stay in a marriage that doesn't make me happy. No, not going to use that excuse to stay in a marriage that doesn't make me happy, but it's going to be hard for me to watch somebody else do all of that. So I'm, I want to be together as much as possible for the baby. And we're considering like, staying in the same house for longer. And I don't know if we should do that. Financially, we don't live in a city where it's cheap to have two places. It's just how are you considering staying in the same house? Well, we have to until June, possibly August. And then we'll keep having sex with them. That's my advice. Don't begin your whore phase until you have a separate place to live. But yeah,

Oh, no, no. I definitely won't. And we've already set boundaries. I was like, you can do whatever you're going to do out there, but don't bring anything near our child and don't bring anything in the house, anyone. Good. That's healthy. That's nice. Because I would have even said, you can say, let's not, let's both put that on pause until we leave the house. Like I would have. Yeah. So that's already good. Listen, you're more scared of what your reaction might be than what is going to happen. Once you see your ex, soon-to-be ex, with another person, you're going to be over it. It's the anticipation of that moment that is bigger than that moment. Tell that to Betty Broderick, Chelsea. Tell that to Betty Broderick. Well, for normal fucking people, okay?

Because I wanted to drive a car over Billy when I saw the short girl on his phone. So it triggers everyone differently. But I'm saying this with this head start that they have, they've already agreed to go their separate ways. It's not like you're finding him with some woman in the middle of a marriage. This is a much different scenario, right? This is, this is you coming into your own. This is like the age of your enlightenment. You know, keep reading books, like letting go, keep investing in your spirituality and your steadiness, because those are going to be the tools that you need when you feel like you're going to fly off the handle or get jealous or react to something in

a way that you're going to regret. All of that is in spirituality, right? They give you all this information about how to control yourself, not in a religious way, not in a way that they're indoctrinating you, in a way that you're a more healthy human balanced being, right? Yeah. Where you know your self-worth, you have a connection with yourself, you have a relationship with yourself. And I think that you're anticipating all these things and the fact that you're talking about it and being proactive about it, I think you're going to be just fine. This is going to be a huge growth opportunity for you. And your world is about to begin in a whole new way. Oh, why did you leave the church? What happened? You didn't like that religion? It was incorrect.

It was not true. No, I converted as a teenager. And then I went to BYU right after marrying my husband. I transferred to schools and at BYU, they force you to like study. You have to take religion classes every semester. And it was two weeks into my first semester that I was like, I'm sorry, what do I believe? Because I don't think that's right. And I've just always, I was raised by people who are like Southern California spiritualists and I was not raised in this church. And then I had some really close friends at BYU who sort of came out and were saying like, they're just going to live celibate and they were going to stay in the church and they didn't want their sexuality to come between them and God. And I just saw, I mean, they have

every right to do whatever they want, but like seeing somebody sacrifice their happiness. I just, Oh, I can't, I can't just like be a cafeteria Mormon. I have to leave. It's not going to work. I get it. I get it. Totally. So, and that alone takes so much strength. And like, you already know that you have like the chutzpah to like, yeah, that's what I was going to say, you know? And so it's in you. I mean, not to make it about me, but I married a man with money and I thought I'd gotten the golden ticket. I helped him support whatever. And that you kind of feel like you pay your dues and then you get to sit pretty for the rest of your life. And there's no such thing. It feels different. It spends different, like earn it yourself, find out what you want to

do and not live on a stipend or a dole from anybody, you know, because it doesn't matter. The second I decided that it was me, I wasn't going to find some night to fix it. I was so much happier. And I was like 40 and fat and like all the things, you know, and it just, you don't know what you can do until you're forced to do it. So let it motivate you, you know, instead of being angry that he has it all and you gave it to him, get it for yourself now. And there's a bigger purpose that you can't see, right? There is a bigger purpose. Yes. You helped him and you helped his career and you helped him get settled. Great. That's great. That's good karma. You helped somebody come into their own. And now he's going to be, he can help you with your kid for the rest

of your life. He's going to be responsible. Like that, that isn't something to say, oh, I can't believe it or be angry about. That's good vibes. Yeah. That's the father of your baby. As long as you don't hold it over his head, it's good vibes. And to get biblical about it, like leave tomorrow's problems for tomorrow. We'll only worry about what we need today. I'm bringing it. 12 years of Christian school. I mean, that brings that makes I feel like all religions should be represented. We need a Shiite. I'm from Schmitz scene here.

Is there a Shiite in the house? Okay. So Meg, I have a question for you. What do you do for a living? This is the only time in my career I've been completely unemployed. So it's kind of bad timing there, but I have a teaching license. I am a public school teacher. Oh, great.

Nice. Yes. What you always say about having kids is totally correct though. Now that I have one of my own, I don't have the bandwidth to go back into America's public school system, especially in the schools where, where I was working. I mean, Chicago public schools and in Aurora, Colorado, like I've been working in places that I haven't worked in easy schools and, and it was really rewarding. and I learned a lot and I failed a lot. But I'm looking now to pivot to use what I've learned in a way that's not classroom teaching, just because when you have young kids of your own, absorbing 30 kids, everything every day is just a lot. Right. So are you thinking about tutoring or something like that? Yeah. So I am looking at a master's program where I can become a dyslexia therapist or my real reach would be a clinical psychology master's and eventual PhD because I

would love to do counseling like that's the best part of teaching is is doing the emotional work when we get off Google there was an article in the Sunday New York Times about psychoanalysis and the uptick in the people who are training to be psychoanalysts and it was about Freud but it talks about like the offshoots and all these people now it's a real rising field all psychology so yeah so that sounds good okay well you're all set listen you're fucking beautiful you're normal only fans but i suggested only fans to you heather i suggested it for you i'll do it sure let's see how many subscribers but meg for sure this is gonna be a great life for you i'm almost jealous. Same. Thanks. Perspective. Do you feel like you've got any advice? Yes, I do. I do want

to ask Heather something. So he's currently like he doesn't want to be a bad guy. And he's very much like, well, you'll stay legally married to me as long as you want. You can stay on my health insurance. We can split the money. And that's, I think, very generous while I'm getting on my feet, but I really don't want to do that thing. Like that golden ticket thing that you're talking about. So like, just listen, that was a lot of bullshit. What I was just saying, if they're willing to pay, take the money, take the money, but don't bank on the money, take the money. Like it's a scholarship or it's invested seed money to become the person you want to be independent. It's a great way to think about it because you're after a while, you're not going

to want his money anyway. You're going to want your own independence. But you're going to want money if he's taking his new girlfriend and living in a mansion on a doctor's thing and you're doing a school thing. It's going to great for the rest of your life. So fight hard now with a good attorney without being angry, but just knowing that you can be nice to him the rest of your life when he's got the MD salary and you're working with the kids reading program. Just try to balance out and make sure you just preserve your peace at all costs. Don't bet Rebroadery because that's pretty much what I go to on everything. And that didn't work out well for her.

So don't drive your Suburban through his front door when he's with his new girlfriend. How about just don't drive a Suburban because the world is melting. Listen, she has a background in Mormonism. A Suburban is at the top of her list. But now I only have to have one child. So there you go.

And there you go. You're saving the planet. Congratulations. Thank you for that. Yes. Thank you, Meg. It was nice to speak with you. thanks for calling in thank you so much you guys are amazing take care thank you bye she and i had

just talked on the phone before not on a zoom call and so that was a whole fun surprise to find out she's just fully gorgeous i know like hollywood ready oh my god i was looking at her like oh oh you're beautiful i'd like to hire you yes you guys this podcast is about feelings okay not looks So let's just take it down a notch. Beauty is currency. Beauty is currency. So we'll take a quick break and we'll be right back to close out. Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell, connection is

everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them i'm elizabeth smart and these are the survivor files i just remember this low taunting voice next to my ear saying shut up don't say anything every week i'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable i knew if he woke up without a doubt he was going to hurt me i started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with

Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table.

It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first.

I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back!

Well, okay, so we can quickly get Alisa laid. Her question is... Get her laid? She needs to get laid. She's newly divorced. I have no experience in this, but I'll try. She says, Dear Chelsea, my sex drive is high. My trust in people low. Wait one second.

Heather, you've had sex since your divorce, right? Oh, yes. Yes. I'm going to launch full. And I was just saying, like, it's not my forte getting laid. But I'll work on it. Got it. Well, I'll just kind of skim over this.

And she's going to join us here. She's intimidated by online dating. She doesn't really know the etiquette. She does want to go out there and start having, like, one-night stands or hooking up with guys. but she's not totally sure how to go about it. So she says, how do I have casual sex when I can't make the first move, Alisa? Hi, Alisa.

Hi, Alisa. I like your style. First casual sex girl. Let's talk about it. Heather Gay is our special guest today. So that's Heather. This is Catherine. I'm me.

Hi, how are you? Good, thank you. So you're looking to get some action. First of all, you should use dating sites Cause that's the quickest way to make that happen. Unless you're just going to go walk down the street to the bar and pick up a guy. That's great. But if you're embarrassed about making a first move, is that what it is? Are you scared?

I get a little shy around boys too. Sometimes if I like them. Yeah. Making the first move. Like I was, I socialized a lot when I was younger and, but these days I'm kind of more of an introvert and a homebody. So. Well, you're not going to get laid at home. You got to get out. I know. I know. Eventually you'll get laid at home. eventually yeah so I joined some hiking groups and oh good of things that I enjoy doing and I

I'm new to this province in Canada too so I've been like going to my favorite bar sitting at the bar reading a book getting a drink yes this is all I love that that's hot reading a book at the bar this is sex in the city behavior I love it this is good yeah I just find with the social sites, you know, you have to sift through like so much and then I don't know what words to use and how to communicate with people on these dating sites. And then I'm very much like I like to get a vibe. So I don't know. I just find them difficult. Well, there are certain apps that you can use if you are more interested in just hooking up. Field is one. There's a few other ones that are specifically for like they're more like hookup-y. But also I think people are using

bumble like I have a couple friends who are in an open marriage and they're like we use bumble so you know I think you should I think you should get on sites get on a couple you know like bumble hinge is like reputable right yeah that's the other there's another new one not tinder is like a little bit old that's too much yeah what about plenty of fish is plenty of fish still popping or is that that's that's from the 70s also Heather I don't yeah I don't I definitely don't want to discount that idea i also live in a small town so i just the the pool is pretty small yeah you need to be online it's the best way to get the most options as quickly as possible right it's the most efficient way to start dating or start fooling around with somebody like whatever it is you're

after that's the way to do it i love that you're going to a bar reading a book by yourself at the bar fucking awesome keep doing that join your groups join another group like instead of a hiking group you know canadians love to do what else do they like they like to fish stay away from that and drink beer see i'm imagining her like going down to the docks and having like a hot fisherman with like big muscly muscles there are no hot fishermen you guys i'm so sick of this but go ahead elisa yeah they're rugged guys for sure the oil riggers i don't know what you think you're saying when you say you don't know what words to use like you mean like the trendy language that's going around or abbreviations and stuff like that? Like, what do you mean by that?

Well, I was chatting with this guy online on Bumble years ago, and he messaged me and then I wasn't the next person to message him like the etiquette, you know, it's like, I didn't message him back. So then he just never messaged me again. Oh, well, don't worry, that's gonna happen all the time online that there is no etiquette. You know, it's your etiquette is whatever you decide it's going to be. But you should practice just being forward with people like, you know, do you want to have a drink? Do you want to meet for a drink? You should definitely meet them for a drink before you invite anyone to your house. Please don't do that. Or meet for, you know, whatever you're into. I mean, I'm into drinks, so that's what I'm going to meet for. But, you know, listen,

you're online. Who gives a shit? You don't care if you ever see these fucking people again. It's the perfect way to be a little bit more daring. And then with that will come you being more daring in real life, you know? Okay. Yeah. You hide behind the screen a little bit. And also might i suggest they've made a song into adam levine sexting and he's really good at it like little things to say like you're so hot amazing like he knows how to sex amazing yeah just say that to anything amazing it just whatever adam levine said when he was sexting people on the side i think that's a great playbook to pull from honestly okay thank you i also was like i've been tuning in and bought a really good vibrator so yay that's also good

What do you need a date for? I know. Well, no, that's good to get everything ready for your date. Yes, that's good. Keep it moving. It helps to have that practice, I do think. You know, you get out of practice with that stuff, even for yourself. Yeah.

Maybe I'm revealing too much. I don't know what you're talking about because a vibrator, I mean, how do you have to practice with a vibrator? It's just like small talk with your vibrator. Put it where it's supposed to go. and then it it's just a new tool are you riding your vibrator are you reverse cowgirl are you like are you like I mean just like the frequency when you get out of practice it's like you don't care about it anymore but then you're like prime the pump a little bit oh right okay in that sense yeah yes I feel like if I have a vibe like I don't you know I'm not like super attached or

craving having this like strong craving and yeah that's smart I like that angle that's true that way you're not like yeah you just masturbate before every date also so you don't have to be super super duper horny unless you need to be and then you can whip that up again anyway but sometimes you need the horny to motivate you to be a little bit more forward you know so you got to balance it yeah you need you want it's a razor's edge really see how i know you'd have good advice it's a clitoris's edge really is what it is yeah give her just a little but Not too much. I don't want any more.

Oh, my gosh. This is great. All right, Alisa. All right, Alisa. Thanks for calling in. Thank you. Tell us when you get laid. Okay.

Yes. I'll tell you how it goes. Okay. Thanks. Bye. Bye. Wow, you guys solved all of her problems so fast. That was great.

I just want to have, like, an advice show. This is, like, it's motivating me, all the tips and tricks. Yeah, I know. Oh, we're just pulling out of our asses. People are very trustworthy. All right. Well, we are wrapping things up, right? Yes.

I mean, that was an hour. What a fun hour, Heather. That was a fun hour, you guys. I had the best time. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Yeah, we'll talk soon.

Okay, take care, Heather. I loved it. Thanks, guys. Appreciate it. Bye-bye. Take care. Bye. And her book is called Bad Mormon, which you guys can pick up wherever you like to buy

your books, hopefully at a local bookstore. Yes. And I will have a link in the show notes as well. I actually, all of our links to our books that I put in the show notes, go to bookshop.org, which also donates. It's like an alternative to Amazon, but they donate to local bookshops. Oh. Yeah.

So you can still like order online. Okay. Love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's fabulous. Support books, everybody. Okay.

We love books. And I have just announced new stand updates for my Little Big Bitch Tour, guys. I announced 25 new cities. These are probably a lot of the cities people have been mentioning in the comments. I start out in East Hampton. I go to New York, D.C., Durham, North Carolina, L.A., Phoenix, Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee, Chicago, Madison, Portland, to name just some. I will be performing at the Kennedy Center, everybody. That's in D.C., October 6th.

I'm super psyched to be performing there. Also, exciting announcement for this week. I just added second shows in New York, D.C., Seattle, and San Francisco. so today's pre-sale still so that code is little and then general on sale starts tomorrow okay yes and i'll see everybody this weekend i'll be in banger maine wallingford connecticut and monticello new york there are more i have tour dates coming up for the next three months and then more dates coming up in the fall so those have all been announced they're on my instagram page, or you can go to ChelseaHandler.com. Thank you. If you'd like advice from Chelsea,

shoot us an email at DearChelseaPodcast at gmail.com. And be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer, Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, We share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B.

I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. hey this is Hayes Davenport and Sean Clements we host the podcast Hollywood Handbook each week we talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman Adam Scott Danny McBride Ben Stiller and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us listen to Hollywood Handbook

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice

and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.