Life Will Be the Death of Me with Chelsea Handler - Big Words for Being Cheap with Chelsea + Catherine

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Chelsea and Catherine discuss why you probably shouldn’t discuss murder during commercial air travel, several different ways to call someone a cheapskate, and caller followups that make Catherine cry.  Then: Lesbian bed death becomes a good thing.  A badass success-story makes a caller’s friends cringe.  And a teacher’s co-workers are having an affair… and everybody knows. * Trigger Warning: this episode mentions suicidal ideation in general terms. * Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail] * Thanks to Betterhelp for sponsoring our new segment, Calling In Backup, and to Courtney Cope, Licensed Marriage Family Therapist and Principal Clinical Operations Manager at BetterHelp. * Produced by Catherine Law Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert * * * * * The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Bell. Connection is everything. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And I guess I can share that, uh, no way. Listen to the latest episode of Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Good afternoon, everybody. It's me, Chesty Hanjob, and Catherine Law. Oh, hello. Hey. Oh, my God. You guys, I was in Tennessee all weekend. I had dates in, I performed at Graceland. Oh, my gosh. I performed in Knoxville and then Chattanooga.

So I thought for sure, you know, there was going to be trouble. And there never is. They were like three of the greatest shows of my tour so far. That's awesome. And Tulsa was another highlight. All these random places that I'm like, I don't want to go there because you know how I feel about Florida. Which, listen, I know you guys are all DMing me about Florida, and I know that I have fans in Florida, and I have friends in Florida that I want to see, and I have relatives. My rabbi lives in Florida, so nothing would make me happier than to go to Florida.

But, I mean, the only stance I could take politically that matters is an economic one. And while it may not make a difference if I don't go on tour there, like hopefully other artists are feeling the same way and will do the same thing. because it's just not a place that I'm going to contribute to when the laws are so discriminatory. The NAACP just put out a travel warning for the LGBTQ community and all African-Americans that Florida is a hostile environment. It's basically one large sundown town. It's exactly like that. Speaking of sundowners, I was on a plane to Memphis this weekend going to perform at Graceland.

This is my first time ever, so we went to Graceland. but more on that later. And this man sat down behind me. He was older, 70-ish. He was next to a 50-year-old-ish. And I was sitting next to the man's wife, I think. And I was reading my book. I'm reading Andre Agassi's book right now, which is really good. And it's worth reading because he was addicted to crystal bath. I like any and his whole childhood about being controlled by his father, but I love any addiction story. And I like any affair story. Like I want to hear about Cheating and drugs. That's what I'm interested in. So I heard this guy, the older man talking. He's like, oh, yeah, where you from? He had just come from Manila or something. And he was like,

oh, where are you from? And he goes, yeah, you know, somehow they just got right to guns. And the guy goes, yeah, I just I want I'm never giving my they talk about giving our guns away. I'm never giving my guns away. I don't trust this government. And I'm going to you're going to have to shoot me if you want my guns. You know what my guns are for? If the wrong person walks up to my door and so I gave me a chill down my spine so I turned around and between the two seats and put my pop to my head in and said please stop talking like that because what you're talking about right now is murder and I don't want to hear about it and the older man was like oh like clearly he had never had anyone call him out on anything right he was like oh sorry sorry like it

was perfectly don't realize what they're saying acceptable conversation to be having in a public space, you know, never mind in a private one. But anyway, we weren't in private space. And so he stopped and then they were quiet for a couple of minutes and then they picked back up again. But this time he was talking about Biden and how the country is going to hell in a handbasket because of all of the immigrants. And it's Biden's fault. And he hopes somebody shoots him before the election. Well, then I got up for the second time to get my bag over my overhead bin to get my headphones in so that I didn't have to listen to this nonsense. And while I was standing, I said, do you know how racist and disgusting you sound? I'm sorry. Do you know how racist and disgusting

you are? Yeah. And the both of the men just looked at me and didn't say anything. And he was like, what? I go, racist. You are a racist. And because what do you think they're talking about when they say the wrong person comes to my door? We know what they're saying. I said, do you know that there was a boy that was just shot three weeks ago because he was picking up his two younger brothers and he accidentally went to the wrong house? An innocent boy who was shot by a man like you do you know that and then the guy just couldn't even respond and I was my my heart was beating out of my chest yeah and his wife was like hiding in the corner for me and so I was like oh great here we go you know and but I was shaking and I was like I couldn't not say something because

I just wouldn't be able to I wouldn't be happy with myself if I didn't anyway I sat down and as I was sitting down the 50 year old ish guy said why don't you mind your own fucking business Pretty hard to do when they're talking in your direction within three feet of you. What did you just say? I would love to mind my own business. But unfortunately, we're in a public place. And all I can hear is you talking about murdering people. And then they didn't talk again.

You can talk about anything else. Just not murdering people. Or don't, actually. Just now you're suspended. Yes, yes. It's just so disgusting to think like that casually. And then I was like, oh, remind yourself you're on your way to Memphis. And then I thought, oh, God, this is going to be tough.

and I have to tell you Memphis was one of the most moving trips because we went to go see where Martin Luther King was shot at the Lorraine Hotel and right next door to it they have bought oh god that's from the guy on the plane I learned that from bought

they have bought who knows what I'm saying they have purchased the hotel the hotel is part of the Civil Rights Museum and the Civil Rights Museum that they had in Memphis was phenomenal it was at least like a two hour 90 minute to two hour minimum time, which I appreciate that kind of information. It was so comprehensive, all about

MLK Jr. and about all the other people who had stood up for something for the first time and real heroes. Well, and I'm glad it's part of the museum. I know you had posted a picture of the hotel. And I guess I just didn't even realize it was at a hotel. You know, that wasn't where I pictured it. I don't know where I did picture it happening. But so you can walk in the museum or in the tour you walk in and you at the end it is you see the hotel room exactly how it was left but I didn't realize Martin Luther King was only five foot seven I realized that in the picture I'm like how did I not know that yeah he was not super tall I know interesting I always think that I don't know why that's interesting but it is for some reason to me because he's a man of stature

right yeah yeah yeah yeah but I mean stature doesn't equal height clearly but there's also you know and then we went to Graceland we got a tour of Graceland right before I performed there and that was really cool. I didn't expect it to be that cool. I was like, oh, I mean, I'm not a huge Elvis fan. I mean, obviously I respect what he did and how meaningful he was, but I don't care about that stuff.

Anyway, I was like into the tour. We saw his house. It's so cool. Isn't it still done? Yes. Kind of like how it was there? Yeah. And then they had Lisa Marie's,

Presley's casket there already next to her son who died during COVID. Yes. And then him and his parents. And I guess Priscilla Presley was just denied to be buried there oh she wanted to be buried with her family which seems right yeah and she is a major part of his legacy like I don't know but maybe her and her granddaughter I don't know what the deal is with that they just had a lot of family drama anyway the woman at the thing was

like oh no Priscilla's not being buried here I'm like okay copy that I won't ask again but um yeah so that was cool and then we went to Dollywood I had a full Tennessean experience and Knoxville was amazing. Chattanooga was also so much fun. I just love going to these southern towns. But I mean, I'm just gonna have to keep crossing states off my list with all of the legislation that is being passed, right? I mean, Texas is a huge place to perform. I mean, there's so many cities there that I go to and I'm like, all right, what am I doing about Texas? Yeah, it's like, can you just go to Austin? Probably not. You know, you gotta like mark the whole thing off. No, you can, but do I want to? Is that the right thing to do? So I have to really consider all of those things. I

want to be really responsible and back up my action my words with actions not just yeah well I mean I know you know a friend of mine who is you know traveling and performing as well she has been trying to get pregnant with her husband and she had had a an abortion that she had to have because of an ectopic pregnancy a year ago and she basically was like there's places I can't go because if I need an emergency treatment for an ectopic pregnancy or something else which is like in her situation more likely to happen again she's like I just can't go to these places yeah right no it's wild and that's not safe for women not safe for a lot of people well Chelsea I have an update from a caller and I'm really excited about this one I might have cried a

little bit reading it but this is from Anna who called in about her dental work that she needed help with and she you know had a lot of guilt and shame around her eating disorder which had caused the need for this dental work. And so we talked to her through that. And Dear Chelsea listeners contributed to her GoFundMe, which was really exciting. Anna says, Dear Chelsea, wanted to send y'all an update. First, I can't even begin to express the depth of my gratitude to you, Chelsea, Otzko, and the entire Dear Chelsea family for the outpouring of support you've shown me in the last few months. Since the podcast in December, the Anna from Dear Chelsea GoFundMe page has raised over $14,500 for my dental fund. And as of today, 723 people have

donated. These numbers speak volumes to the power and compassion of the community that you've cultivated through this podcast. From the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you, thank you. As a nonprofit professional and marketer, I know the importance of sharing impact stories to help people better understand the power of their donation. So here's how you have changed my life, dear Chelsea fam. Over the last five months, I've gone to the dentist monthly for batches of procedures aimed at repairing and healing my teeth. In January, I went for a set of procedures to repair three teeth and crowns. Unfortunately, it was too late to salvage one of those teeth and it had to be extracted. But wait, there's more. That could have been the end of that

story and I would have had to live the rest of my life missing a very important tooth. But Thankfully, the GoFundMe allowed me to say yes to the process of a bone graft and eventually an implant to help me salvage that molar. Undoubtedly, being able to tackle these procedures with urgency is saving many more of my teeth that otherwise I would not have been able to attend to for years due to financial limitations. My dentist confirmed this and wanted me to make sure I sent this gratitude to the Dear Chelsea community for your support in this process. Y'all have changed my life profoundly, not only with your donations, but with your compassionate and empathetic messages on the GoFundMe as well. Thank you for helping me heal on so many levels. I'm forever grateful. Anna.

Oh, I love it. Yay! I know. It's awesome. It's so exciting. See what happens when people care and are nice and caring and sweet and empathetic and compassionate instead of buying fucking guns. For sure. And also, like, Anna came to us with this issue and was so vulnerable and open about the, like, shame she felt and guilt she felt.

And that, I think, for me, was what was so moving about her story is, like, she wasn't actually even here asking for money. She was, like, talking about what she'd gone through, why she felt like she'd done it to herself and why she deserved it when, like, none of that is true. It's all just head trash. And she deserves all the good things. Absolutely. And a beautiful smile is everything. Well, we are back with our sponsored segment, Calling in Back Up with BetterHelp. And we have a brand new therapist to help us out today, licensed marriage and family therapist and principal clinical operations manager at BetterHelp, Courtney Cope.

Hello, Courtney Cope. What's happening? Oh, it's good to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh, yeah. Well, we love BetterHelp and we love referring people to BetterHelp. Yes. We love therapy. Well, we have kind of a really tough question that we're going to have Courtney

help us out with. Priscilla says, Dear Chelsea, I'm 25 years old and just finished graduate school. I've been with my boyfriend for over four years. We're young, I know, but I'm in a phase in life where I feel it's time to decide if this is the person I'm marrying or not. I love him so dearly. He's everything that most women my age complain about not being able to find. He's sensitive, in touch with his emotions, an excellent communicator, and he tries so hard at everything he does. The problem, however, is that he's severely depressed. He's been hospitalized twice for his mental illness and continues seeking treatment today. He never gives up, even when things are really hard. He always takes his medication and is extremely willing to try

any and everything to help. But despite his best efforts, nothing seems to really alleviate his hurting. I don't know if I can live in fear of him dying from this my whole life. I want children, and I don't want them to lose a parent that way either. Any advice, Priscilla? Wow, such an important question. And first of all, I just want to commend this person for really weighing the importance of this decision regarding a long-term partnership and potentially bringing children into the world together with someone. So kudos to this person for wanting to make a thoughtful decision here. Second of all, I think the broad theme to this question is the one that we see a lot in the therapy office. And that theme is I love my

partner and they have so many great qualities and here's all the things I value about them. But there's also this other thing that has me questioning if we're a good fit. And so one of biggest pitfalls I see when people are asking this question in their relationships is to make it specifically about their partner or their partner's behavior or their partner's issues alone. Meaning my partner has this thing and if this one thing could go away, then we could move forward and everything would be great. So instead, what I find to be really helpful for people who may find themselves and listeners who may be listening to this and finding themselves even in a similar quandary or situation is to take a compassionate approach and approach this from

honestly asking yourself, do I have the capacity to love this person on their journey wherever it will take them and wherever it will take us? Am I equipped for that? Do I possess the capacity? Do I possess the desire? Is this something I want to put effort into? Because you get a say in how you want one of the most important decisions of your life, potentially marrying and creating children with someone to play out. Does that make sense? Yeah. And as you mentioned, having children with this person, as Priscilla did, there is also something to consider about. A lot of times, depression, anxiety, these things are hereditary and they can be passed generation to generation. So there is something to think about there as well when you're choosing a life partner or

somebody to procreate with. And the other thing I want to point out is, look, any one of us, we could have a partner who struggles with their mood or emotions. We might have a partner who maybe spends more money than we're comfortable with or has a different sexual appetite than us. We may have a partner who has a different religion or culture than we are a part of. And none of these things are inherently wrong. These are all just the kinds of typical things that we see in therapy, whatever the subject matter is. So we have to be honest about what our capacity is to be with someone who is fill in the blank. And so for this specific person, one thing that I would recommend is to start with some self-exploration here and inquire, is this

partnership with this specific person and all that comes with it, the good and the not ideal, is it really something that you want and something you have the capacity for in your life? Because if it is, then perhaps it's about bolstering the support that you have for yourself and your partner so that you have someone to help you when you're helping your partner with their feelings of depression. Maybe it's about getting in couples counseling with both of you so that as a unit, you two have support for navigating these challenging situations. Or as a third option, perhaps it's about acknowledging that this life path and this specific relationship isn't right for you. And that's okay too. There's literally no right or wrong answer here. It's just about being

lovingly honest with yourself and not getting yourself into a situation where when the rubber meets the road, you'll feel resentful or full of regret for decisions you made in the past. But how do you handle something when it's delicate like, you know, the other partner suffers from severe depression? You know, I think that puts a lot of pressure on the partner even thinking about leaving or breaking up the relationship. There's a sense of responsibility that comes with that. So what advice do you give to people who are making the decision to say, okay, maybe I'm not cut out for this. Maybe I don't want to bring children into this dynamic. Yeah. I mean, look, relationship issues are tough because you're dealing with two people's lives

and potentially children's lives. And so if this is one of those tough situations, like you're mentioning, you know, someone who's dealing with depression and you feel bad about leaving. I mean, there's all kinds of reasons why we have to be really mindful about the decisions we are making. And then this person sounds like they have a lot of great qualities, right? Like they are sensitive. They're doing all the things like there's a lot of reasons why this person loves their partner. And if they aren't the person to be with them for the rest of their life, there's going

to be someone else who's going to love them and accept them where they're at. I think where people get into trouble is where they think this, these two people were together and you have to meet all my needs and I have to meet all your needs. And if those two people aren't compatible, sometimes the most loving thing is letting them go. so that they can go and find their better match. Yeah, I think this question jumped out to me because whether it's us that's been with a partner who's depressed or a friend, like everyone knows somebody who's been like, I can't leave them. They're having XYZ mental health issue. When

would you say it's like, I mean, obviously we want to prioritize our own mental health before we can like reach out to another person. But what would you say is sort of like the defining factor of, I know that I can't withstand a relationship with this person? What would you say is the flexion point there? Yeah. I mean, it's the same thing that we hear every time we board an airplane. It's put on your oxygen mask first and then help the person next to you or your child or your partner. It's like if you're finding yourself in a place in your life where you're not able to thrive and function in an ongoing basis. I mean, every couple goes through rough patches. Every person goes through periods of feeling down. But if you're not able to thrive in your own life

because you are self-sacrificing just so that another person can live, I mean, we're not meant to self-sacrifice to the point of our own depletion. We have to be radically self-responsible for our own happiness and our own path and our own trajectory and give that other person the gift of doing that as well. I think that we make a mistake when we say, I have to stay with this person because they're depressed. It can sometimes be the most loving thing to allow that person to be on a journey where they're not feeling guilty. They can read the room. They can tell, oh, my partner doesn't enjoy being with me or spending time with me or is feeling resentful. So I think that's the elephant in the room that I want people to hear because I see that in the counseling room

a lot. You know, the person who has depression, they know if you're resenting them. Yeah. And I think another thing to point out here, too, is, you know, we're not static beings. I think one of the really cool things that Priscilla outlines is that her partner is willing to try new things, you know, down with taking his meds, et cetera. And I think that's kind of half the battle, like not that we can bootstrap our way out of depression, but you never know like when that certain therapy is going to make all the difference for him or adding that extra drug to his, you know, regimen, whatever the case may be. You know, I have someone in my life who has been severely depressed for years and it was like, okay, we're going to add this extra medication and therapy is

going to be two times a week. And it's made a huge difference in how they operate in the world. So, you know, you can have somebody who's like perfectly fine with their mental health going along one day and then all of a sudden something happens and it triggers years-long depression or on and off years-long depression. So giving her partner room to change and grow I think is huge too if she feels like she can go the distance. Absolutely and I love that she mentioned all these positive things about him because it sounds like this is a person who is a great partner and who would eventually be a great great father as well. They possess some of those traits and it's a matter of figuring out what works best for the two of them. And if they can partner together and

move forward in a way that's meaningful, great. If there's a way maybe for this person to navigate her own anxiety around having a partner who is depressed, that's great too. Again, I just like to bring it back to individual personal responsibility because we cannot control the choices of our partner and whether they're going to continue to whatever, take their medication, go to see their therapist or whatever. So it really comes back to what we can control. And I think that's the most powerful thing any individual can do in their own life. Awesome. Any closing thoughts, Chelsea? I know. I mean, I think that's a tricky situation, but I think it's difficult for people to make

those kinds of decisions, you know, especially when you're dealing with depression and possibly suicidal thoughts and ideations. You don't know how deep somebody is. So it's very tricky. Yeah, I'm glad that you're here to help navigate, Courtney. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. Well, thanks again to BetterHelp for sponsoring this segment. And thanks to Courtney, who's a licensed marriage and family therapist and principal clinical operations manager at BetterHelp for being our backup today. Absolutely.

My pleasure. Awesome. We'll see you next time. Bye, Courtney. Bye. And we'll take a quick break, Chelsea, and we'll be back to talk to some callers. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies?

Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all? And will you finish episode eight before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months.

I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are The Survivor Files. I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.

From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse. Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself

because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive

to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And we're back. We are back. Okay. Well, our first email comes from Leanne. Leanne says, Dear Chelsea,

I'm a 34-year-old lesbian female in South Louisiana. My partner and I have been together for three years. We have an exterior maintenance company that's very successful. Sounds very lesbianic. It does. It's great. We work together, we live together, and we basically do everything together. We're both in recovery from extreme drug use, so we're both on a medically assisted treatment called Suboxone. And this medicine really affects our sex drive, so we rarely have sex.

The thing is, the rare sex doesn't bother either of us, and we're both very happy in our relationship. Great. Yeah. And we honestly don't have any problems in our work relationship nor our home relationship. My question is this. Is it healthy that we're both happy and content and very much in love even though we rarely connect intimately? Would love to hear an outsider's opinion. Thanks so much, Leigh-Anne.

Yeah, who gives a fuck about sex? Same. I don't give a shit about sex. I care about it when I'm in a relationship when I want to have it. But when I'm not having it, I don't even think about sex. I mean, first of all, welcome to being a lesbian. I would imagine lots of lesbian relationships are sexless. Right.

Lesbian, bad, deaf. As are a lot of heterosexual relationships as well. So the only relationships that are not sexless are homosexual men. Okay. But no, I wouldn't worry about that at all. You found your person. You have a reason why you're not having sex. It's like a medical reason.

it's much more important for you to stay sober than it is for you to have sex period so you're putting your priorities in order and i applaud you yeah i totally agree i feel like 90 of the issue that any of us have with like sex with our partner is frequency you know so many people have this issue of he wants it more she wants it more somebody wants it less the fact that you're on the same level is like amazing yeah no to other callers you want to get on the same meds as your person so that you guys are on the same wavelength. So, Leanne. Yeah, you're just fine, Leanne. Don't worry about it. Don't overthink things. Exactly. Just enjoy your partner, you know. Well, our next question comes from Samantha. Samantha is calling in today. Dear Chelsea, I'm struggling with

something I'd love your input on. I have a friend who is having an affair with one of our co-workers. Well, technically, he is her superior as he's the principal and she's a teacher. She's recently divorced and this affair was a huge catalyst to her divorce oh she divorced he did not oh oh god this is getting real juicy juicy is my favorite here is why this is an issue for me eight years ago i was in a very similar situation had an affair with a colleague that led to the end of my marriage he though did not divorce and went on about life as usual not to get into the sort of details but this was hugely devastating to me in many ways i see so much of myself and my situation in my friend. And yes, I know I'm projecting a lot onto her. However, I also know

these situations aren't really unique. They generally end in the same way. Devastation for at least one, if not many. It's very hard to hear about her participation in this affair, especially after her divorce and her now being the side chick to this married man. I've seen her melt into an incapacitated puddle over this man. I have talked her off the ledge several times and gotten her to free herself from him. But since they work together, they always end up back together after daily and constant text calls and in-person meetings. Now, they're regularly having sex at her home, even when her kids are home and in bed, a line she said she'd never cross. She refuses to see it negatively at all. I can only see the negative. She's my best

friend, and I don't want to lose her. Samantha. Hi. Hi, Samantha. Hello. How are you? I'm good. Thanks. Thanks for having me. I have the same feelings as you do about affairs. Not that I've been completely guilt-free of having them in my younger life. I did. But I also am very judgmental about participating in that because I just feel like it's such bad juju. There's no reason to have sex with somebody that's married when there are so many other people to have sex with or have an affair. So I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think there's anything you're going to be able to do to convince your friend, either than distancing yourself from her, if that would make you feel like have a greater peace of mind. I don't think there's anything you can do

to make somebody stop doing something that they're addicted to. You know what I mean? She's in love. So that's like an addiction and it's sad, but it's going to have to play itself out. And somebody is going to get hurt, probably more than one person. But, you know, if you are constantly in judgment of someone, they're going to stop sharing with you. And maybe that's what you want. I mean, I don't know. What would you like to see? Obviously, besides a fair ending, your relationship with her, does 90 percent of it take up this affair? Like, is that what you're always talking about? Yeah. I mean, yes. When she's actively involved in it, then yes, it is. I would say 90 percent of our conversations or interactions are surrounded by that, whether it's her

personal meltdowns that she's having because of whatever has recently happened or whether it's her just being in turmoil, you know, over what to do, what to do. And I'll give her the same guidance and she won't take it. And you've told her she I'm sure she understands that you don't approve. Yeah, she understands that. And I mean, part of the situation is that I was also in that same situation eight years ago. And so I project onto her my own experience. And I know how this is going to end. And it's not going to be good. There is no good way. Yeah. And I think to even like make it more pointed of your situation versus hers, if I'm doing my math correctly, She's about the age that you were when that happened to you, correct?

Exact age, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So are you willing to take a step back from the friendship? Yeah. Yeah, and I have. That's the thing. Like, this whole school year, we've been kind of back and forth between being super close when she's off, you know, and I'm proud of her.

I'm her cheerleader. I'm encouraging her. And then the next thing you know, I feel her kind of distance. And then if I call her on it, well, then she's upset with me. So it is like an addiction for her, you know? It's like addict behavior. Yeah, I would try to just remove yourself from her. I understand you want to be a good friend and you should be, but there's no reason to subject yourself to her when she's basically using her drug. You know what I mean? Like you don't have to be up there for the ups and downs of it. And when she comes crying to you, you don't have to be so available to her in that way. You can just say like, listen, as a friend, this is so unhealthy. I've been watching this now for however, how long has it been going on for in total? Two and a half years.

Okay. So that's plenty of time for you to have drawn your own conclusion about why this is toxic for her. And did she leave her husband hoping that the principal guy would leave his wife? Yeah. Yeah. She won't admit that, but that's exactly what happened. Well, of course.

I mean, and what's his plan? Not to leave his wife? No. I mean, I think he'll continue having affairs because she definitely wasn't his first one. So this is how he lives his life. And he believed that he can keep his marriage separate from other women. And that's his mindset and belief. So does he know that, you know, he does.

The reality is there's about 20 people that know that I know. I mean, who knows? You know, it's like a spider web, right? Yeah, because she's full of multiple people. So he knows that I know I was there on the ground level when it began. And I mean, he trusts me, but he would he would die if he knew that all these people know. Well, he's going to get caught.

I mean, yeah, everybody gets caught. If 20 people know, then 150 people know. Yeah, right. Exactly. Probably some of the students know, too. Probably. Probably. There was a pastor at my church when I was growing up who, like, everybody thought was

the bee's knees and he was great. I never liked him. But he wound up having an affair with one of the other people at the church. And kids would come up to his kids and be like, oh, is that your mommy with your daddy? Like, the kids could spot it, even when they were just standing next to each other at a church function. Like people know, like people can read between the lines and also people talk. Yeah. Oh, yes. Is there any world in which like he actually has an open marriage? Probably not.

No, no, no, no, no. Because he's very careful about his wife not finding out. And he would also be just, I mean, he could be fired for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. He could be fired. Pardon me. I mean, if I kind of want to like tell on him because he deserves whatever is coming his way. But yeah, you don't want to do that to your friend. No, no. You want to just,

I think you just want to be a little bit firmer in your boundaries and explain to her that this isn't a situation that you enjoy watching her be a part of and compare it, be like, it's like watching an addict go back and forth. And I know that this is not going to work out the way you want it.

And you're not being honest with yourself. You're, you know, delaying the rest of your life. The next person that's supposed to come into your life is on hold because of this, of this bullshit. it. And, you know, people have to learn their lessons their own way. Unfortunately, you know, you could tell the truth as long as you want, but you can only tell the truth in your sense of like creating a boundary. Like this isn't working for me anymore. I'm not interested in picking up the pieces every time your heart gets broken or you're having a meltdown. This is not a good use of my

time. It's starting to weigh heavily on me, you know, not even start. It obviously has been for some time and just create boundaries with her that you're not going to be social with her or hang out with her while she's seeing him. And it's just not healthy. Here is a question I have for you, Chelsea. Do you think it's like we can't have a relationship or it's I love you. I want a relationship with you, but you can't talk about him positive or negative, broken up or together like you cannot talk about him with me? I don't know. I mean, I guess that's an option for everybody. Personally, setting a boundary about what you're allowed to talk about is not a friendship. You know what I mean? I tried that. Right. And it doesn't necessarily work like you

can't talk to me about this. It's like, well, okay, then we're, how are we friends? I think you could say like, I love you. I will always be here for you, but not for this. I'm not interested in this anymore. It's been too long. You're not learning your lesson and you're continuing to kind of poison yourself with this man's behavior and you're going to get caught on top of it. And then her job is at risk. Not only his job, but her job is as well. Yeah. Yeah. And just the reputation, you know, a female processes that I think so much differently than a male. And I just know that she would be crushed, shattered. Well, and people process that about the scorned woman differently than they do about the guy. You know, I mean, she will have a different reputation in the community.

And it's obviously a small enough community that like people know and people are talking. People do know. And yeah, I'm sure they're talking. And also it's just karmically like for me, I'm not doing anything that's going to bring back any negative karma in my life. That was what my 20s and 30s were for. I don't do anything that is going to be perceived like you don't, A, want to harm another woman. Let him go fuck someone else that is less informed. You know, I don't want to. She doesn't have to screw his wife over in this way because that's essentially what you're doing.

It's not just him doing it. You're choosing to betray his wife. You don't have to aid him in betraying his wife. Let him go do that with someone else. you know if he's single gets divorced then of course that's a different story but that's not the story right now and you don't have to be part of that story and I don't and I think creating boundaries for that is exactly what you should do and and don't feel any guilt about it you're doing the right thing you don't you don't want to be exposed to it anymore yeah well I appreciate

that because I have had a lot of guilt yeah no no no you shouldn't have any guilt why would you have guilt what do you have guilt about just about betraying her as a friend you know she's been a good friend to me. But you're not betraying her. Well, I guess just not, I don't know, maybe kind of taking the easier way because this is hard. It's hard on me. No, no, no, no, no. You're not betraying her. Betraying her would be telling everybody about it and outing her. That's a betrayal. You're not betraying her by setting up boundaries. You're actually setting up a guardrail to protect her and yourself. You don't want to know any more information. You don't want to have any more information in your head to ever have it come up or discuss it with another person.

Betraying her would be telling other people about it. You know what I mean? Betraying her, there's a million ways to betray her. This is not one of them. You don't need to feel guilty for having a moral compass in this situation. You know, I understand people cheat all the time and they're having affairs all the time, but it's your exposure to that affair that is what's important. Like, as long as you're not part of it, you know, then you're not aiding and embedding

something like that. Sometimes real consequences in our lives are what make us change our behavior. And a real consequence for her that's not blowing up her life, but is a real consequence, is you saying, I can't be your friend again until this is well and truly over. You know, when we lose relationships. Yeah, I can speak from personal experience that the consequence is what will will change the behavior. So, OK, well, I so appreciate you ladies. So what are you going to do? Well, I am going to stand my ground with the boundaries.

And I told Catherine on the call, I actually requested a transfer to a different school for other reasons. not just this. I have some other personal reasons, but I'm honestly so looking forward to it. Like, I can't wait to get out of here and get out of this environment. And if she chooses to leave, I mean, she should. She needs to leave more than I do. Seriously, she should transfer, too. Yeah, yeah, she should. But I made up my mind. I can't make her do that. And honestly, this actually brings something else up for me. I think it's a really good thing for to be getting out of that sort of like soup of grossness. I have someone in my life who didn't.

She knew about an affair. It was a coworker thing. It was like this person always came to her talking about the affair. It literally made her physically sick. And now she's dealing with the consequences of that illness. But really and truly, I believe and she believes it's like part of what caused her chronic illness.

Yeah, I don't need it. So I'm looking forward to what's next. Well, good for you. You seem like you're solid. Yeah, I think so now. Eight years ago, not so much. Totally. Well, you know what?

Well, you live and you learn. Listen, I did that once when I was young, and I would never, ever do that again, no matter what. Like, it's just not worth it. Yeah, I would never do that to myself. I'll never do that to myself again because just I can't even think about the anguish and like I was on the floor crying. I mean, it's just it's shameful.

But yeah, yeah. But now you know better. Well, just tell her that anguish is easily available elsewhere. Right, like in regular dating relationships. Yeah, yeah, right. Well, this has been a dream come true, really, truly. Thanks, Samantha. Okay, thanks, Samantha.

Take care. Bye. Bye. Solve that, Chelsea. Well, I don't know if we solved it, but I wish women just didn't do that. I know. It's like there's just so many men. There are so many men.

Why do you have to fuck somebody that's married? And he's also, like, by that definition, like, not a good one. No. You can go find a good one or another shitty one. And then getting divorced? For what? For him? Like, what?

Right. Like, it caused her divorce. And, like, still this man's poor wife doesn't know. Yikes. Behind every night spent making the kids' lunches, there's a lot of suspense. Will they finally eat the veggies? Will the pesto survive the first bite? Will the lunchbox come home empty, half full, or come home at all?

And will you finish episode 8 before you're done slicing the cucumbers? Get Bell Pure Fiber Internet with Crave, Netflix, and Disney Plus from $94 a month. Price guaranteed for two years on internet with a two-year term and auto pay credit. Visit bell.ca for details and to check availability. Bell. Connection is everything. When I was 14 years old, I was kidnapped and held captive for nine months. I survived, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files.

I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From bestselling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility.

Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, our next caller is Amelia. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've been dating the same guy on and off for nearly two years.

I love him dearly, and most of me wants to stay, but I have a few serious reservations due to, one, how he's treated me in the past six months while he's dealing with a health crisis. and two, his seemingly selfish, cheap tendencies. I just listed my condo and we talked of moving in together when his lease ends, but now I'm having doubts and wondering if I can tolerate the way he operates for the rest of my life. Regarding his above selfish, cheap tendencies, here are a few anecdotal examples. He frequently plans social events or dates, yet more often than not, lets me treat or splits the bill down the middle. I'll fully admit that part of it's my fault for constantly offering. Mind you, he literally makes $50,000 more than I do and has lower bills and expenses. We live in a mountainous area and go hiking or skiing most weekends, and since I have

a dog, he pushes to always use my car instead of his, which puts wear and tear on mine in addition to not offering to chip in for gas. I've flat out told him before, I cannot keep up with your spending, and if we're going to take my car most times, I would appreciate if you split gas with me. He will agree and then suddenly quote unquote forget. He occasionally will make a point to pay but does it in such odd ways. We recently went to the movies together, for example, and his contribution was to Venmo me for both of our water bottles. I'm not sure how to approach this topic with him or if I should throw in the towel, as generosity in a relationship is a deal breaker for me. I'm overly generous, forgiving, and patient, yet I have to plainly

and repeatedly ask him to contribute financially and in other ways in the relationship. While I love him dearly. This, coupled with his constant excuses of his recent health crisis, is getting old. Help, Amelia. Hi, Amelia. Hey, how's it going? Hi. Good. How are you? Good. Thank you. So can you tell us a little bit about what's the health crisis? You mentioned it, but didn't really expound on that. Yeah. He's been dealing with a series of neurological... I don't know that I want to go too much into detail just for the sake of this. It's a big constant headaches, fatigue, trouble sleeping, focusing, mood swings, et cetera. So that has nothing to do with him being cheap. So I would say if I honestly, I have a real problem

with paucity or veneriousness, which is two words for being very cheap. I feel like it is much more than a money thing. It is a personality thing and it is tight, holding onto everything for yourself. All the examples you listed made my skin crawl. I find that irredeemable. You know what I mean? I can't express enough that cheapness is just not about money. It's just about what you are willing to give of yourself, your generosity of spirit, your generosity of attention, because you're always, always preoccupied with saving money. that is your number one you know thing in your mind is like how do i get away without paying this how do i trick her into driving and and then i send her money for a fucking bottle of water on venmo i mean please getting married and spending your life with somebody there are going to be so many hurdles that you're going to have to cross and there are going to be ups and downs throughout a lifetime naturally you don't even want to deal with the money aspect of this shit you know you

want somebody who's like-minded who's like oh yeah let's split it evenly or or yeah and maybe it is your fault for offering it up too much but who cares he shouldn't have accepted that all the time he makes more money than you and you're in a relationship yeah i get it people want to be 50 50 but not down to the t like that it's icky to the penny it's not attractive and you're gonna not be attracted to him after a while if you already you know i mean i'm sure it's i can't imagine it not having an impact on your sex life already yeah and to be clear he's phenomenal he's a great person but there's only so many times it better be yeah with that fucking quality i mean there's only just so many times and it just kind of makes me feel like to have to ask right like

please sir you know yeah i very much agree i'm in the same boat with chelsea if there were a fix for this i wonder first questions first if you guys are going to move in together and you are actually thinking about spending more of your life with this person. Is there a world in which you'd combine finances? Because that kind of would negate the entire thing. Well, I think he's, I should have probably added this. I'm pretty ambivalent when it comes to getting married and having kids. He's pretty set on not. So I can't imagine that he would be open to being on the mortgage with me or something like that. So that would probably be a no. I haven't asked that question though yet. Okay. Yeah. I just, I think, you know, the answer to this question, but when

you wrote in I think you're already on your way out and I think I encourage that exit yeah I mean you do allude to like there are other ways he's stingy more than just money and like just money is pretty big and pretty icky it may help you could try it for a few weeks to be like okay time for you to get out and pump and pay for gas like just being very direct about it which I find sometimes helps when I've been like hey could you could you sometimes you just got to be like here you go I'm gonna sit in the car while you pump and pay or whatever the case may be but it does feel like this is emblematic of bigger things in the relationship right Amelia yeah I mean I don't think that anything's ever going to be like 50 50 100 percent of the time but it doesn't

it shouldn't be like 90 10 90 percent of the time oh for sure for sure it should not and why have you guys broken up you said on and off for two years like what were the issues that broke you up I think that he will not have anything that inconveniences him. He doesn't have a history, I think, of long committed relationships from what I've been told. So various reasons, but they actually weren't related to money. Okay. Surprisingly. I think if you needed a last ditch, if you guys weren't going to combine finances, like when you move in together, if you move in together and get to that point, for other people who might be having maybe a lesser version of this, you could always have

a combined slush fund of like, here is how much you contribute, how much I contribute. And since you point out the disparity in how much you guys make, it should be a percentage of what each of you make so that it's even in a way that's not like monetarily the same dollar amount. No, that makes sense. And I think that's more than fair. So yeah, I think that's a great idea. Cool. Okay. And you know where I stand. Yeah, no, I do. You've made it pretty clear. Okay. All right, Amelia. Thanks for calling in.

Let us know how it goes. I will. Thank you. All right. Thanks so much. Bye-bye. It reminds me of, I remember my friend dated this guy and he was always, I mean, the minute I met him, I was like, is he cheap or what? Because he's so, and you know how I am with money. I don't give a shit at all. And I was like this when I had no money, which is why you get money. The tighter you hold onto money, the easier it is to lose. The less you hold onto money, the more comes your way. That is a fucking fact of life. I fully believe that. The more you're just like, oh, money isn't this like big cloud over my head. It's in and out. It's always moving

around. That is what helps it flow through you. What I wanted to say is the more tight your grip is, the more you tighten your grip, the more likely you are to lose something. And someone too. And someone, exactly. When you cannot control your emotions or your feelings towards something, that is a bad sign. My friend had this guy and I remember him bringing groceries over and she was cooking or I don't remember. I definitely wasn't. And she was, he was literally looking at, he had like a six pack of beer that he had brought over and I went to grab a beer. She went to grab a beer and he's like, we only have four left. And it's like, wait, wait, wait, wait. You just brought a buck and beers over. What did you want to happen? Nobody to take any? And if you're sitting

there counting that and you're counting money, how are you present? How are you present when you're preoccupied with saving? Yeah. And how are you enjoyable to be around also? Like when you have an open hand, it just, it fills you up in a way that you can't even explain. It's not tangible, but it also is tangible. You know, like you see it come into your life. People are generous with you when you're generous with them. It's more of an energetic thing, you know, and I guess people who aren't consumed or, you know, don't care about that. They don't care about energy or karma or whatever. They think of it as concrete money that they have that is going missing and that they're losing this when they spend this. And it's one thing to want to save money, but it's one thing

to hold on to something that is going to go away anyway, like fucking food or beer or, you know, tangible items like all of it is just it's not important enough to get upset about and to obsess over so i have a brother who's very very cheap and it's a big turnoff he'll fly to let's say california from new jersey but he'll stop over in atlanta and perhaps texas in order to save money to get to la i'm like why not go to guatemala you fucking moron why don't you have a lay over there there is the like mental and emotional toll that that also takes on you I remember the first time I was in with my brother, Glenn, I was in a hotel room. We were dating and I went into the minibar to grab something because don't take anything out of there.

It's too expensive. And I looked at him. I was like, if you think that I'm going to live a life where I don't get to eat or drink shit out of the minibar, then you're fucking out of your tree. Like I am going to take out of the minibar and then you're going to pay for it. Sorry, Glenn. No, that is sort of a mental shift that, I mean, I had to make at one point from being like, oh, my gosh, I don't have any money, whatever, and being like, wait, no, I do need a drink of water and it's worth $7 to have this drink of water that's not from the tap. Well, you know, I was broke for many years when I moved to L.A. I moved here when I was 19 years old and I waited tables and I barely scraped by and I didn't have money, but I had credit cards and I use them not sparingly. I use them all the time. I mean, I acted like a hotshot when I wasn't a hotshot. I take all my friends out to dinner all the time. I racked up like 30, 60 grand worth of debt. And I watched all my friends do the same thing, not to the degree that I did, but, you know, file bankruptcy like girls were filing bankruptcy because back then you could. I guess that's probably the same now. I haven't had to contemplate that in recent years, but you could just get new credit cards like a week after you filed bankruptcy.

So you started all again. They expunge your whole previous record and you get to start anew. And I never did that because I was like, that's so dishonest. I know I'll make the money to pay it back. I know I'm going to make money. And sure enough, I did. And I was able to pay back all of that debt in a matter of probably months once I started, you know, really like hitting it and making real money. And it felt so good. It felt good to pay off my debt. It felt good to not be in debt. And so I understand like the notion of stressing out about, you know, you have a lot of debt to pay and that's one thing. And so I don't want people to get confused about being broke and being cheap you know what I mean yes you can be broke and you can also not be cheap you can just

be like you have to have confidence in your ability to be able to earn that money at some point in your life and pay your bills and also not to hoard things yeah yourself I mean it's not it's not even like about how much you have it's about your willingness to share what you do have yeah like that I think you know especially traveling like that's what you see in so many other cultures, like here, we're very about, you know, keeping up with the Joneses. Here's what I have. Here's my benchmarks. But like in so many other cultures, when you travel, like people who have so much less than you are so willing to give everything they have, you know, come stay with me, come have a meal in my home, whatever. And that's what it's about. It's about being open handed.

Oh, I have a really moving story. This is kind of like me patting myself on the back, but fuck it, who cares? I always like to leave a tip in the hotel room for the chambermaid or the cleaning lady, whatever the, you know, whatever they prefer to be called. I think chambermaid is from the 1700s. So probably cleaning ladies, but more apt or appropriate. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I'm from Canada now. Sorry. Did you hear that? It flipped, it slipped out. My Canadians are having such a big influence on me. Anyway, I want to say, so I always leave money. And when I'm in really small towns that I think people are suffering, I leave more money. And obviously I don't have any financial issues now. I have a healthy financial situation going on. So when I'm in a small town

or a worse town, I'm like, oh, I should just give more money because these people are even more. They need it more. Right. Right. So over one weekend when I was on tour, we were in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And I just thought, you know what? Fuck it. I'm going to leave. I had 100 on me. I said, I'm just going to leave 100. This is a nice thing to do instead of going down, I'm breaking change that I don't need. So I left $100, walked out of the room, and I was sitting there waiting at the elevator. And the cleaning lady ran up to me with tears in her eyes and hugged me and said, thank you so much. You just made my entire month.

And I was like, no, you just made mine. You know, because you don't know how you're helping people. So if you are in a position where you do have money, please be generous with these people. Like we are, you know, with inflation and everything that's going on, like $20 isn't what it used to be right now. It's not. And you have to make sure you're thinking of all these people when you're in a position to think of them. I know if you're broke and you don't have $20 to leave a housekeeper when you're staying in a hotel, I get it. You don't have to leave $20.

But leave whatever you can. If you can, leave something. You know, you're impacting. And then you're causing this beautiful ripple effect of goodness wherever you go. You know, you leave it around. And the more you have, the more you should share. Absolutely. Absolutely. It goes back to, you know, what we were saying on the season finale.

You know, my dad's saying is always you're blessed to be a blessing. And when you have blessings, whether that's financial or spiritual or mental health or whatever it is, good things bubbling up in your life, pass them along. Mm hmm. Yeah. The Hard Rock Bet Casino app is here, Ontario. It's safe, secure and crystal clear with fast payouts and 24-7 local support. You can play over 3,000 games right here, including Hard Rock Bet Casino exclusives. The Hard Rock Bet Casino app is here, Ontario. Roll with us.

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I just remember this low, taunting voice next to my ear saying, Shut up. Don't say anything. Every week, I'm with survivors who live through the unthinkable. I knew if he woke up, without a doubt, he was going to hurt me. I started feeling that there was someone at the end of my bed, and I just started screaming. They are abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced. But these aren't stories about what's taken from them. They're stories about what it takes to make it out alive.

Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. This is Prose Society, the weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for thought daughters, pop culture obsessives, and anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. I'm Eli Rallo, and every week we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and the conversations everyone can't stop having. I'm going to have to look up this story. I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. From best-selling authors and your favorite book talk creators to the latest pop culture moments, nothing is off the table. It's like if you can hide some real messages inside compelling characters, then that is a Trojan horse.

Whether you're looking for literary deep dives, smart pop culture conversations, or a community of readers who love to think a little too much, you're in the right place. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. See you between the pages. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility.

Every time I tried to be alone, I kept meeting people and they were like, you smiled at us. Not a lot of people smile around here. It's when you're alone that you're most receptive to the world as it is and not the lies you're sold about it. It can be a time where you push your limits, change your mind, or wake up to a new version of yourself. So whether you're a solo travel veteran or you're too nervous to book your first trip, I hope you listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Our last caller today is Katie. And this actually goes right with what we're saying.

So this is perfect. Dear Chelsea, I'm a woman in my mid-30s who crafted an amazing career and can provide for my super hilarious family of four, five, if you count our loving doggo. When the pandemic hit, my husband lost his primary income. He was an independent contractor for a travel company that was devastated by lockdowns. There wasn't any time to panic when our financial situation changed. We kept our heads down, figured out a plan, and pushed through it. He and I always find a way to make opportunities out of disasters. He's the hardest-working guy I've ever known.

I have a full-time job in the tech industry and an academic side hustle. Sometimes it feels like both have taken off almost faster than I can keep up with. I went from being a stay-at-home mom and part-time psychology student to a formidable breadwinner, and ultimately, I'm happy that things have turned out this way. My husband went back to school to become a lawyer, and I was able to pay his tuition. He's finishing his law degree this semester and has already secured a contract at the top-rated law firm in his field. Here's the thing. We've grown accustomed to not telling others about our accomplishments throughout this process. As we continued to level up and our hard work started to pay off, anytime we shared some details about ourselves, like getting promotions, buying a new house, giving speeches, etc., some friends and family would remain quiet, say very few words, or pass sarcastic remarks.

For example, when Hubby got into law school, some people from our inner circle said, oh, okay, and that was the extent of their feedback. I'm the kind of person who will shout from the rooftops on behalf of my friends and family. Although not everyone is a hype girl, a big part of me was expecting a more congratulatory reception. Don't get me wrong, there were so many people who've been supportive of us, and I understand the three years in lockdown knocked the wind out of everybody's sails, so it might be hard to rejoice on behalf of someone while you're struggling. I totally get it. Somehow, hitting massive milestones without the support of people who intimately know your journey feels different.

I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this matter. As we grow our personal wealth, succeed in our careers, and elevate to a new status, or whatever, Is there an inherent isolation that comes with advancement? Best, Katie. Hi, Katie. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you doing? I'm doing well. I'm very happy to be here with you. And hi again, Katherine. Hi.

Well, what I would say first and foremost is that your success and your milestones and all of the hard work you guys have put into everything isn't contingent upon other people's reactions. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. I've been there. I've had people, been very close friends in my life, not be happy for major accomplishments that I've had. And that's just, there's really nothing you're going to be able to do about that. Going from person to person and being like, why aren't you happy for me? Are you jealous? Are you upset with your own? You have to be doing all of these things for you, which you are. And looking for outside confirmation is going to be a losing battle. You just can't depend or to be disappointed in that. And you and and maybe it's a lesson for you to maybe not. Maybe your accomplishments are supposed to be celebrated between you and your husband. look what you guys did accomplish like it's fucking badass that's incredible what you've done that you supported him and were able to do that for him after him working so hard for so long and then changing his career trajectory and now he's already got a job so he's going to actually be able to like you know return the favor to you if and when that's necessary and

like there's already so much goodness don't look outside for confirmation and affirmation That comes from within. And the better you get at that by celebrating each other with each other, the less interested you're going to be in what other people think about it. Yeah. Thank you. I'll say this. I wasn't really seeking validation from anyone. I was just kind of sharing news when people were asking, Hey, like what's going on? How are you? Yeah. And I would, you know, share something positive kind of in this newer realm of career for me, because before my career took off, I was the adventurous one who always got in trouble. So I'm kind of also wondering, maybe I was typecast in a way as like that kind of crazy, fun girl. And then I became quite serious. So I don't know if maybe that's a factor, but you're right. I definitely

don't need to seek approval from anyone. No. And who knows what's going on with other people? Maybe other people feel like you're bragging or maybe other people feel shitty about what's going on in their own lives. And they don't have room to celebrate you because they're struggling with something that you don't know about. You know, like this is good stuff. You've got good vibes going. Don't let other people rain on that parade, period. And don't shove it in people's faces necessarily, especially if their feedback hasn't been what you had wanted it to be or hoped it would be. Maybe there is something going on with that person. Maybe you want to check in with them about what's going on with them. And, you know, before you kind of advertise your good news,

I'll never forget. This is a perfect example. I was waiting tables and I got signed with this management firm when I was in my early 20s or mid 20s. And I walked into this restaurant I used to work at called Chaya Venice. And there was a morning meeting and everyone at the restaurant is trying to be an actor or an actress or a writer or whatever. And I walked in and I was so excited that I got representation. Like I, I was like, I just got represented by the same people who represent, you know, I don't know who it was at the time, probably Tyra Banks or something. And I was like, Oh, that's my new manager. And the whole table just looked at me like no one gives a shit. Like we're all fucking struggling here and you're coming in here. Like,

you know, you're the king of the, you know, the queen of the thing. And I was like, I, it was a lesson for me. Like, don't spread your good news where it's not, you know what I mean? Like know your audience too. Yeah. You got to read the room. And when you're in a one-on-one with a close personal friend, like, or a relative, like then that's the moment to be like, oh my God, I'm feeling so great about everything we've done. But just be careful about spreading good news. Cause You don't want you don't want other people kind of raining on your parade, even in their private moments. You know, what if they're like, oh, she's so full of herself. She thinks she's accomplished this and or she used to be so much fun and now she's so serious.

Like all of that is just noise. It doesn't matter what you're doing matters. Your relationship with your husband matters and what you've done and cultivated is beautiful. And that's all you need to know. No, thank you. And you're right. I think I am just going to be kind of selective, you know, about what I do and don't share. And that's fine. I don't want to come off as braggadocious anyway. That's not my goal. No, not at all. But yeah, I think, you know, there's room to talk about what's going on in your life. Like I had a friend like this who, you know, when I or anybody else in our friend group would like talk about any sort of career successes, she would sort of like smile through

her teeth and be like, that's so great for you. But you could tell she was very upset by it. And she has become a person like because other things outside of career have improved in her life now she's like genuinely can like spill over with happiness whenever anyone talks about something good that's happening for them so you just you know you never know what's going on for them but like i think it's okay to talk about what's going on in your life and if it's received with some lukewarm emotions move on all right excellent thank you both that's uh it's kind of what i was hoping to hear so thank you awesome good well congrats on everything we're happy for Thank you.

Thank you so much. Thanks, Katie. Awesome. Bye, ladies. Bye. Well, Chelsea, what a fun episode we had today. Oh, yeah. Lots of money stuff, success stuff.

I know. Cheap, cheap stuff. Cheap stuff. Cheap stuff. Wow. Juliana Margulies just texted me. We have to put her back on the new season. Oh, my gosh.

Well, I'm excited. It won't be the same without her. She's not texting me about that, but she's texting me and it reminded me we have to use her for every season because she's a fan favorite. She is a fan favorite. I still get emails all the time about like, when are you having Juliana back on? So we'll have to have her post haste. Chelsea, do you have any tour dates or anything else that's coming up that you want to talk about?

Yes, I have all sorts of shows on sale now, you guys. I'm coming to the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C. Check ChelseaHandler.com and yeah, New York, L.A., San Francisco, all the good ones, you guys. They're all on sale and we're adding shows. So if your city sold out, look again. Courtney Cope's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance.

Courtney's feedback is in response to a written question, and therefore, there are likely unknown considerations given the limited context. Also, just because you might hear something on the show that sounds similar to what you're experiencing, beware of self-diagnosis. Diagnosis is not required to find relief, and you'll want to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnoses, if that's important to you. If you or your partner are in crisis and uncertain of whether you can maintain safety, reach out for support, like crisis hotlines and local authorities. Have a safety plan?

That can be done with a therapist, too. If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at dearchelseapodcast at gmail.com, and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert, executive producer Catherine Law. And be sure to check out our merch at ChelseaHandler.com. I survived nine months in captivity, and I've spent my life exploring how other people survive what should have destroyed them. I'm Elizabeth Smart, and these are the Survivor Files. Every week, I'm with survivors who lived through the unthinkable, abducted, stalked, controlled, and nearly silenced.

These are stories about what it takes to make it out alive. Listen to The Survivor Files with Elizabeth Smart on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If your bookshelf and your For You page are equally important to your personality, welcome home. Pro Society is a weekly podcast that's part book club, part group chat for anyone who thinks Pride and Prejudice and Love Island deserve the same level of discourse. Each week, we're connecting the dots between books, the internet, and pop culture with your favorite writers, book talk creators, and plenty of overthought opinions. Yeah, I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed. Listen to Pro Society on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. hey this is Hayes Davenport and Sean Clements we host the podcast Hollywood Handbook each week we

talk to someone in show business and try to help them with their careers and see what they have to offer us everyone has a good time and no one gets mad at their publicist for letting them do our show we've had a lot of great guests like Sarah Sherman, Adam Scott, Danny McBride, Ben Stiller and a lot of other big shots that wouldn't be where they are without us listen to Hollywood Handbook on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, Solita, we share the messy reality of traveling alone as a woman. I can wait four hours for the next bus, or this random dude is offering me a ride on his motorcycle. I chose option B. I'm Julie Pinheiro, and I travel by myself because it's a rare space where I can say

yes without asking anyone else first. I'm on a mission to reclaim the word solita, trading the pity for possibility. Listen to Solita on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.